February 10, 2026 • 49 mins
In this episode of Spartan Leadership, Josh sits down with Stephen Scoggins to unpack what actually causes burnout, why success without integration costs leaders their families and peace, and how to become the kind of leader who can scale without losing meaning.
Stephen shares his journey from homelessness to building and exiting a multi-decade company, why most exits lead to depression, and the framework he uses to help leaders move from emotional reactivity to grounded presence.
This conversation goes deep into:
– Why your external business reflects your internal world
– The five hidden constraints that sabotage leaders
– The difference between being “successful” and being whole
– What it really means to lead as one part lion, one part lamb
– Why presence matters more than performance
– How faith, identity, and leadership intersect
If you’re a founder, executive, high performer, or leader who feels like something is still missing — this episode will put language to what you’ve been feeling.
👉 Free leadership assessment from Stephen:
https://stephenscoggins.com/leader
Chapters / Timestamps
00:00 – Why burnout isn’t about workload
02:10 – Stephen’s story: from homelessness to leadership
04:45 – You can’t scale dysfunction
07:12 – Leadership is a lifelong maturation process
10:38 – The five constraints that sabotage leaders
13:01 – Why impatience isn’t the problem — presence is
17:19 – The “warrior in the garden” framework
20:00 – One part lion, one part lamb
23:17 – Loving the parts of yourself you resist
25:16 – The daily mantra that rewires identity
29:06 – Why most leaders seek validation in the wrong places
31:17 – The real cost of fragmented leadership
32:54 – Why success without meaning leads to depression
35:30 – What children actually want from their parents
39:15 – Why exits are emotionally dangerous
41:20 – How to prepare for life after selling a business
45:40 – An unpopular truth about victimhood and identity
47:23 – Stephen’s leadership assessment and next steps
CONNECT WITH ME HERE:
FacebookInstagramLinkedInTwitterTikTokYouTube
SUBSCRIBE TO THE PODCAST HERE:
Apple PodcastsSpotifyYouTube
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Inevitably, what happens is love overtakes the
parts of you that are alwaysscared because resistance always
comes from fear.
It always comes from form someform or fashion of fear.
Fear of not being enough, fearof not being seen, fear of not
being heard, fear of not beingappreciated, fear of not being
able to be connected, fear ofnot being able to grow, fear of
not being able to grow abusiness, right?
(00:20):
These these little and sometimesthey're subtle.
They're subtle little nudges.
But what happens is when thatgets activated and it hasn't
been dealt with, it becomes anexplosion and creates three or
four other problems, right?
So you're rather thancompounding internally on the
highly developed leadership, youend up compounding on
firefighting, creating chaos,creating overwhelm and burnout.
Most of us stay burn out andoverwhelm, not because there's a
(00:42):
lot on our plate, but insteadbecause our nervous system
hasn't dealt with the fact aboutthe subconscious program that's
trying to drive the insecuritiesthat are there.
I start off every day with amarch-up.
I do this every morning.
I do it four times.
And in between each of thestatements, I actually take a
deep breath and a slow exhale.
So it would look something likethis.
SPEAKER_02 (01:25):
Today we'll be no different.
I got a good buddy on the horn.
We are uh coming Zoom today, buthey, we're gonna deliver the
impact either way.
So let me give a briefintroduction to my friend Steven
Scoggins.
Steven is someone who helpsleaders bring alignment where
there is chaos, clarity wherethere's confusion, and structure
where things feel heavy orbroken.
(01:46):
His work sits at theintersection of leadership,
systems, faith, and identity.
He's deeply focused on helpingpeople lead as integrated
humans, not fragmented ones.
So success doesn't cost themtheir health, their families, or
their purpose.
So as you guys hear that, youknow him and I are deeply
aligned, as he just said to mebefore we got on, kind of
(02:07):
brothers from another mother.
Uh so Steven, welcome to theshow, brother.
Dude, such an honor to be withyou, man.
SPEAKER_01 (02:12):
Love you, man.
I miss you, dude.
We got we I can't wait to haveyou out to the safe haven and
get you on that, get you on oursas well.
SPEAKER_02 (02:18):
That's right.
Like I just booked with you inApril.
Our schedules, uh, you do itsmarter than me.
You you have designated days forpodcasts where I just do it
where I can fit them in.
Uh, but I couldn't align it tillApril because of both of our
busy calendars.
But yeah, but yeah, we're gonnarock it either way.
So let's let's hop right inbecause I know time is precious
for both of us.
Sure.
Uh, you know, you and I got tomeet up at Renee Rodriguez's
(02:41):
home where we're both goingthrough it.
Uh, his Amplify uh workshop,which was world class.
But you know what wasinteresting about that?
And for those of you that don'tknow, so Renee helps people uh
find their authentic selves inspeaking and communicating in
front of whether it's aboardroom, a large crowd, a
dinner table, doesn't matter.
And Steven and I uh do a lot ofwork on stages, and Steven has
(03:03):
been on some amazingly bigstages, and so it's kind of
curious as there's people in theroom that had really never
spoken in front of anyone, andthen you got Stephen and I have
spoken in front of hundreds andthousands of people, and we got
asked the question Hey, why whyare you guys why are you two
here?
And we were able to humblyanswer is like we're looking to
get better, like always lookingto get better, and you were at
(03:25):
the forefront of that.
So, what what does that mean toyou?
Like you're always constantlygrowing and evolving.
What what what was the impetus,whether it was early on in life
or later in life, for you tocontinue to grow like that?
SPEAKER_01 (03:35):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I um I live
a life of epiphanies, right?
And you got to put yourself infertile soil to have these
epiphanies, these catalyticmoments that kind of like you
know can really move youforward.
And when we did Renee's event,first of all, never look at
toasting ever the same.
You know, we'll let the we'lllet the audience go go uh be
(03:56):
part of that process and they'llunderstand.
But um, at the end of the day, Ihad sold a company about a year
earlier um that I'd spent about25 years building from a
literally literally the trashpiles of a construction site.
Um, you know, my my stories, mystory's kind of public now.
So it would, you know, as wedon't rehash it a lot, but you
know, um, there's a lot ofidentity and a lot of character,
a lot of uh capacityimprovements that needed to
(04:18):
happen from homelessness to youknow ultimately scaling almost a
nine-figure business.
Um but more importantly, I wasgoing through a pretty uh
transformative change.
I'd had Renee on the podcast,and uh he just invited me,
right, to come be part of thisevent.
And lo and behold, it ended upbeing a very transformative
experience.
Uh, not just you and I becomingbrothers from another mother,
(04:39):
but um also giving me newawareness of where leadership
struggles happen, right?
As someone who has scaledleadership teams, scaled and
built companies, uh tries tokind of impact at scale
nowadays.
Uh, one of the things I realizedis you can't scale dysfunction.
You can't do it.
Um, it doesn't matter if it's inyour home, it doesn't matter if
(05:01):
it's in your relationships, itdoesn't matter if it's in your
business or your leadership ingeneral.
Um, and dysfunctiondysfunctional um dysregulation
comes primarily from self beforeit impacts the outer world.
So I've been I had this newawareness, this new epiphany of
um basically your externalbusiness is the embodiment or
the or the uh uh the view ofyour internal world.
(05:25):
So I think for me, one of mybiggest takeaways is I'm always
looking to figure out what's thenext level for Steven.
And I used to do it for an areaof growth for myself.
Now I'm doing it much more froman area of growth, not just for
myself and my family, but moreimportantly from the people who
who call me mentor, call mefriend, call me leader, right?
(05:48):
Um, I want to be the bestversion of myself day in and day
out.
I shared with you off air that Ispent time with uh quite a bit
of time with David Meltzerrecently, um the last couple of
days, and our uh our good friendChristy as well.
And one of the things I watchedDavid do, um, and this this like
stood out to me, um, is Davidwent from being on stage for a
(06:08):
40-minute keynote straight intouh doing two coaching sessions
back to back in front of me, um,you know, with a phone, hopping
on a podcast with me, hoppingoff the podcast with me, into
another coaching session whileeating lunch, while
simultaneously um, you know,teaching and mentoring another
leader across literally thatjust happened to be in the room
watching the podcast.
(06:30):
And I thought to myself, this isprobably one of the highest
capacity leaders atfunctionality that I've seen.
And I get a lot done in a day.
Like I'm no slouch.
But David made me feel like,dude, like there's there's more
to be done.
So I think I think if I canunderstand, and I think this is
this is important, if leaderscan understand that leadership
(06:51):
is never done, development isnever done.
It's not it, it's not an end ofthe journey.
It's much more of a um, theword, I think the word I would
use, it's it's much more of amaturing process.
So the more time you spendinvesting in yourself around
people like yourself, aroundpeople like Renee, around people
like David, you know, EdMilette, for example, is a
(07:12):
friend.
Like all if the more you spendtime around people, you start
seeing the intangibles.
And I think the tricky part isum is taking the lessons that
help you raise your character,your capacity, while
simultaneously not falling intocomparison syndrome of those
that you admire and respect.
And I think there's a dancethere specifically, which is why
(07:33):
I'm always asking myself in thisgiven moment, um, and I'm not
getting the result that I want.
Am I attempting to scaledysfunction in communication, in
how I think, in how I process,in what I believe?
Um and I think that's at thecore of why I'm always hungry
for growth.
I don't want I never want tostop growing.
Like I'm I I'll I can I can dothat when I when I pass from
(07:56):
this earth and then the nextplane, um, I could stop growing
at that point and see whatheaven's like and see what the
guy kind of growth curve there.
SPEAKER_02 (08:01):
So that's I mean that's you know, it's awesome.
Great answer.
And and you talked about thedance because you know, Ed's a
friend, Renee, yourself.
Um, I don't know David Meltzeryet, but that's just a short
time coming, as we spoke about.
But um because you can fall intothe comparison game and you can
think also like, oh, I should bedoing that when in reality what
(08:25):
you there's some things that Eddoes that I don't like.
I respect him immensely.
Yeah, respect him immensely, butthere's certain pieces of him
that I don't want to be as well.
So you also that part of thatdance is going, what can I take
from this high-level leader thatresonates with me and my soul
and what doesn't fit instead ofme just trying to replicate
exactly what they do because Iwant to be exactly where they're
(08:47):
at.
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
Yeah, exactly.
Well, and at the end of the day,you got to start asking, what is
mine to carry and what is mineto convert?
Right?
So you've you've got to carrythe weight of the responsibility
and accountability as a leaderof being as congruent as you
possibly can.
And I'll give you a frame ofreference here in just a second.
The other thing is what can youconvert?
What uh, as you just mentioned,with uh, you know, people that
(09:08):
we admire, they've been in,they've do great things in the
world.
Many of them are big businesses,many of them can be strong
leaders, um, but they're likeeverybody else, they're they're
human, right?
They're valuable.
I'm human, I'm valuable.
There are leadership traits.
Um, and I'll give you, I'll giveyou an easy one.
Like I, you we were talking alittle bit off air.
Um, I used to be verydomineering, controlling energy
(09:31):
type, not because I was tryingto hurt or wound people, I
simply wasn't aware of it.
I was simply trying to literallygo from homelessness to getting
stability, right?
And out of that came a lot ofextra tenacity and grit.
Um, so much so that when I'mtrying to figure out what I'm
supposed to carry and what I'msupposed to convert, I started
looking at it through the lensof what I like to call the five
constraints.
(09:51):
Um, you know, in business andleadership and all kinds of
different things, statisticswould say, you know, lack of
sales, lack of marketing, pooruh poor product positioning, um,
lack of financial uh cash flowand resources are all the
reasons that business andleaders typically go under.
I discovered when I just lookback at my own journey of
(10:11):
scaling a company from nothingto something, that those were
nothing more than symptoms ofwhat most leaders in businesses
really struggle with.
Um, that it's actually far moreuh behavioral and integral.
And so I said, okay, well, whatwas the moments that caused me
the greatest stress, greatestproblems, greatest team member
breakdown, greatest issues in myrelationships, greatest issues
(10:35):
with my kids.
And everything I'm and I've lostmillions of dollars, right, with
what I'm about to say, came outof emotional dysregulation,
right?
Not being able to regulatemyself, not being aware of what
was causing the frustration thatseems to be just a reactive
response without ever askingmyself why.
So when I took that and I torethat apart, I was like, okay,
(10:57):
well, what are the attributes?
What are what's actuallyconstricting my airway that's
preventing from me communicatingin a in a beautiful real level?
What's coming, what's preventingme from being grounded and
regulated and and just present,right, as a leader with my team?
What am I what am I scared of?
And all these kinds of things.
And essentially I came up to thethe what I call the constraints,
(11:18):
and which is arrogance,ignorance, impatience, fear, and
insecurity.
These five emotional triggers orsubconscious programs, if you
will, drive all kinds of bizarreexternal behavior.
So when I started looking at,okay, what does it, what would
I, what would it mean to becomea fully integrated leader?
(11:40):
Well, I simply have to move fromthe five constraints to their
five opposites, right?
So if the a constraint isarrogance, one of the one of the
opposites of arrogance ishumility.
Well, what does it mean to showup in a human in a humble way,
but not being a pushover, right?
The next one's ignorance.
Okay, what's the opposite ofignorance?
(12:01):
The the opposite of ignorance isteachability.
How often am I seekingmentorship?
How often am I inviting my youknow my friends and colleagues
that know me really well topoint out blind spots that I can
respectfully, without arrogance,look at objectively to see is
there truth there and what needsto change?
Right.
And I think the one that wasreally interesting, and I did
this um at uh recently, I'vedone it several times at a
(12:23):
couple several events, but Ihave I'll say, okay, well, the
third constraint, folks, isimpatience.
I'm curious.
I'll actually ask this, I'll askthis question uh before I even
share it with them.
I'll say, curious, by show ofhands, who thinks you should be
further ahead than you actuallyare?
And without fail, 100% of thehands go without fail every
time.
And I said, you know what'sfunny?
I used to feel the same way.
(12:44):
And that came down toimpatience, right?
Well, the opposite of impatienceis not patience, it's presence.
It's being where your feet are,right?
And being responsible, beinggrateful, being mindful, um,
taking um data that you have andcreating a strategy.
You know, I know you do a lot ofwork with entrepreneurs and um
in entrepreneurial systems, andyou know how important it is to
(13:06):
tie it to try to removeself-triggering emotional
responses from data you'reactually looking at so you can
make a really good decision.
The problem is, is you can't dothat unless you're literally
present in the moment, presentwith your team, present with the
data, right?
It can learn to breathe throughcertain things, you know.
And then you look at fear andinsecurity.
Like, I don't know about you,but I battled fear of success
(13:29):
and fear of failure.
Yep.
I also battled fear of not beingenough.
Like, so that's comes down toinsecurity and worthiness,
right?
So the opposite of fear to me iscompounded faith by looking at
other times where you thoughtthe world was going to crumble
or something else that was gonnacrumble, and somehow, somehow,
God showed up and essentiallynot only took you through that,
but when he took you throughthat, he developed, he continued
(13:51):
to develop people through that,if that makes any sense.
And then you look at insecurity,you know, and insecurity, when
you're looking at insecurity,you're looking at um, why do I
feel like I need to compete,compare, or otherwise downplay
who I am as a person rather thanjust being the authentic version
of who I am.
And you know, you start lookingat these constraints, and all of
a sudden you you can start tobreathe again.
(14:11):
Because now you got a place togo, you got a frame of
reference.
SPEAKER_02 (14:14):
Yeah, so good.
And what was coming to mind isjust yesterday I get a text from
my wife.
Hey, you need to talk to yourson when you get home.
Uh my eight-year-old son hit oneof his friends at recess.
Um, he got in another littlequarrel.
This time it was his partner.
Uh yeah, that's right.
Uh and you know, part of it is,you know, raising a son, like I
(14:38):
do teach him to he has threeolder sisters, so I do teach him
defense and how we go about it.
So, but there's lessons inmaturity there, right?
Like one of the conversationpoints last time is like, Cam,
just because you can fightdoesn't mean you should.
Here's here are the pro here arethe reasons when we fight to
defend yourself or your sisters,right?
(15:00):
Uh or to get out of uh harm'sway, whatever it may be, like in
that regard.
Uh but though those are just acouple examples because what
you're saying is emotionalregulation.
Like that's what once we loseour emotions, that's when we
lose.
And so your five constraints uhyou've worked so hard on, which
leads me before we get in themeat and potatoes, the one story
(15:21):
I wanted to tell from Renee'sevent is I took a risk and paid
you a compliment.
And the reason I said it was arisky compliment was let me
explain, is I I went up toSteven and I said, dude, for a
short dude, you are justamazingly humble and you have
zero like uh Napoleon syndromeenergy.
Because I've been around a lotof shorter dudes that have had
(15:42):
like the over-bravado kind ofarrogance trying to make up for
something uh because they'vebeen either made fun of or
whatever throughout their life.
And and your response back to mewas equally humble.
You said, Thank you.
I've worked really hard on that.
And so I think that like whatyou just stated, like working on
those five constraints withinyourself has um empowered you to
(16:03):
become such a uh transcendentleader with others.
SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, I you know, I um one ofthe things that I try to get
leaders to understand, whetherthe business leaders, pastoral
leaders, leaders of their home,um, doesn't matter if a male or
female, what I try to get themto understand is we all have
limiting beliefs that createinsecurities that then play out
(16:29):
in front of us.
And the only way to deal withthem, to become the most humbly
confident version of yourself isto know the value you bring, but
more importantly, start seeingvalue in others.
So when we're sitting there umat Renee's event, um, you know,
what gosh, like it's been what,a year, year and a half ago now,
(16:50):
two years.
Um, you know, I picked upsomething really, really
profound.
One of the other uh folks there,um, and I don't have permission
to share his name, so I'm notgoing to, but one of the other
folks there uh had been throughsome pretty challenging
childhood trauma like I had,right?
And and this this concept thatuh that Renee brought that
(17:11):
brought that Renee gave me, hegave me language to something I
couldn't articulate, which isthe importance of becoming a
warrior in the garden.
Right?
So a warrior in the garden isprepared for battle, but doesn't
seek the battle, right?
They they seek to be of service,they seek to plant, sow, reap,
and harvest.
Um, but if they need to pull upa sword or go to go to work or
(17:34):
go to battle, they do it, butthey do so with integrity.
Right?
It's not just the sheer grit,you know.
And one of my favorite clips in300 is uh, and I've seen this in
a couple of your shows as well,is like, this is Sparta, or you
know, what is your profession?
Right.
And while I love that, I'mthinking to myself, there's an
(17:55):
embodiment of what it means tobe a warrior in the garden,
right?
Um, and if you're not prepared,you'll either be an overly
assertive warrior or you'll beessentially a gardener in a war.
And I'll I'll say it this way.
So you and I love, um, we'repeople of faith, right?
So I can share this concept.
So if your audience doesn'tfollow me or doesn't believe
like we believe, just borrow myfaith for just a second.
(18:16):
There's a story in the Bibleabout uh a young man named
David, who is being stewarded bya king named Saul.
He just happens to come upthrough the ranks, and David is
largely out in the shepherd'sfield, not really having to do a
lot.
I'm not doing, I mean, notsorry, he's largely he's in the
shepherd's field by himself withnothing but him and sheep and
God in a heart.
(18:38):
All right.
Meanwhile, you've got Saul who'sin a who's essentially becomes
the first king of Israel, whoover time um starts to act in a
disobedient way because he needsthe approval and validation of
other people.
Okay, David, on the other hand,becomes a king over time, so
much so that he has a chance tokill Saul in a cave and chooses
(18:59):
not to, because in his words, Iwill not touch the I will not
touch the Lord's anointed.
Even though by that time Davidhad already been anointed as the
new king of Israel.
What happens is when you look atthe contrast between those two
individuals, those two types ofleaders, right?
At Saul's worst, um, he wascontrolling, domineering, and
(19:20):
had to get the approval of thepeople to feel validated and
somehow um appreciative, right?
David, on the other hand, justsought to serve.
He never really needed the crowdto say, hey, you've killed your
10,000, or hey, you can play theharp like the best when the
business.
And what that done, what thatdid is that helped me understand
the contrast between what I liketo call becoming one part lion
(19:44):
and one part lamb.
Okay, the embodiment of twoenergetic forces that cohesively
cohabitate together.
Inevitably, what happens is, andwe you saw a little bit of this
with a pendulum uh thing that Idrew as trying to serve one of
the other members there, um, isyou have this maturity and
immaturity in the leadershipstyle.
(20:05):
Okay.
So to me, in order to rise,lead, and last long term, you
have to become one part lion andone part lamb in complete
maturity.
So if I look at David and Saulas contrasting components,
right?
Um, a mature lion is going to becourageous, protective, bold,
and then enduring.
Okay.
An immature lion is going to bedomineering, controlling,
(20:26):
egotistical, arrogant, and bydefinition, um, essentially
someone who repels peoplebecause people don't feel safe,
right?
Safety is actually a veryimportant word when it comes to
leadership.
Um, and most of us are there'swe're so aware of our out, like
our eyes out that we don't knowmuch about our um call it our
(20:48):
eyes in, like in the into ourheart, into our soul, right?
You should flip the other side,you got the you got the lion,
you got the lamb, okay.
You got the immature lamb, yougot a mature lamb.
An immature lamb is peoplepleasing, overprotect um, what's
called over functioning.
Um, they self-abandon on aregular basis, right?
And on the mature side ofthings, they are compassionate,
(21:08):
loyal, loving, and ability tocommunicate at almost like a
divine level.
When you take the contrast, youstart seeing the criteria of
moving from one to the other.
So um I've people have asked medifferent questions in different
ways, but yours essentially wasokay, well, how did you go?
How did you really work on thisNapoleon thing and try to become
a grounded, well-regulated, wellpresent leader?
(21:30):
It's simple.
I work my ass off to become onepart lion and one part lamb in
the most mature capacityforward.
And I'm still doing thatactively every single day.
Every single day I'm pouringinto myself.
I'm spending time with ajournal.
I'm spending time saying, hey,what do I hear you say today?
And I listen, right?
These components allow us tobecome more present, more
(21:50):
grounded, more regulated.
And as a result, we we are ableto indwell more truth, more
revelation.
And essentially, we don't evenhave to say a word, right?
Great leaders, you can literallyfeel them in the room.
Right.
And you do that through theembodiment process I just
described.
SPEAKER_02 (22:07):
Yeah, that's so good.
I said this just yesterday, andit kind of speaks to what you're
uh getting at here.
I was like, and you you've beenon this circuit, you've been on
stages with some of thesepeople, I'm sure, like I have.
Is the the fake seems real untilreal enters the room.
It's so good, dude.
(22:28):
That's so good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And uh it's it it's sointeresting.
So there's there's a lot offrauds that get have great
marketing systems out there.
And uh, I'm not gonna throwanyone under the bus publicly,
but uh I know you've been onstages with them, I have as
well.
And um when you or I walk in theroom, because we're so grounded
(22:49):
and authentic in who we are, youcan already feel their
insecurities popping up and theygo over over kind of over-rotate
to the bravado.
And uh so I'm thinking aboutthis is like someone's listening
to this and resonating deeplywith your words right now, and
they want what you have.
What would you say is if youcould go back to step one of
(23:10):
starting to work on Steven andturning into part lion, part
lamb, what guidance would yougive them?
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
I think step one is gonna be love the parts of
yourself you normally resist.
So, what I mean by that is everylast one of us has parts of
ourselves, layers, if you will,um, that we're not proud of,
we're not happy with.
Maybe we react a certain wayrepeatedly and it's a behavior
pattern, and that because ofthat, we feel a little bit of
shame.
And so um in order to love partsof yourself you normally resist,
(23:42):
you have to begin to accept theparts of yourself you want to
resist.
And here's what I've here's whatI've discovered is when you can
when you can begin that process,and I'll give you like a little
mantra to kind of just get theget the get the thing growing
going in a second.
When you can pull these thingstogether, inevitably what
happens is love overtakes theparts of you that are always
scared.
Because resistance always comesfrom fear.
(24:04):
It always comes from form someform or fashion of fear.
Fear of not being enough, fearof not being seen, fear of not
being heard, fear of not beingappreciated, fear of not being
able to be connected, fear ofnot being able to grow, fear of
not being able to grow abusiness, right?
These these little, andsometimes they're subtle.
They're subtle little nudges.
But what happens is when thatgets activated and it hasn't
(24:25):
been dealt with, it becomes anexplosion and creates three or
four other problems, right?
So you're rather thancompounding internally on the
highly developed leadership, youend up compounding on
firefighting, creating chaos,creating overwhelm and burnout.
Most of us stay burnt out andoverwhelmed, not because there's
a lot on our plate, but insteadbecause our nervous system
hasn't dealt with the fact aboutthe subconscious program that's
(24:47):
trying to drive the insecuritiesthat are there.
So I'll give you the easiest waynot to deal with this, and I did
that I do this every day still.
Um, I start off every day uhwith a mantra mantra.
I do this every morning, I do itfour times, and in between each
of the statements, I actuallytake a deep breath and a slow
exhale.
So it would look something likethis I am healthy.
(25:12):
I am wealthy.
I am wise.
I am a steward of the most high.
And the most difficult one todo, especially in the mirror, is
I love you, Stephen.
(25:32):
Most of us have to go through aprocess of reparenting ourselves
in order for us to be reallyconnected to the fullness of
this divine energy that God putin our hearts and our minds to
begin with.
In other words, we were bornwith created value and the world
compression itself, identity,comparison, and securities, this
which was exacerbated by socialmedia in general, um, teaches us
(25:54):
that unless we're this, we'renot enough.
When in reality, we're already,we're already this, we're
already the thing that Godcreated us to be, and all we
have to do is operate in that.
So this mantra is a step-by-stepprocess that allows you to begin
to appreciate yourself, loveyourself, reparent yourself.
And as a result, you no longerneed any of the world's
validation, right?
(26:15):
I don't need to start allbecause I step on a big stage,
does not need I don't need tohave the validation of the green
room.
I don't need to have thevalidation of the audience.
My heart is to serve.
I'm showing up to serve becauseI'm a steward of the most high.
It reframes how and why Ioperate, right?
And I'm doing it from a place oflove and not a place of need or
scarcity or fear, right?
(26:36):
The next step in the process,step one is the mantra.
Step two is going to be what Icall a journaling practice that
I started actually during thetime you and I met.
Um, I was doing it every singleday for about six months
straight.
Now I do it about twice a week,just not only because I'm
feeling um, I'm not feelingcalled to do it every day.
But if you're this you're justgetting started, I would say do
(26:57):
it every day.
Grab a journal.
As soon as you're done with themantra, before you go to the
gym, before you get on yourphone, before you get on TV, and
just write at the top of thepage what I hear you say is in
today's day.
And rather than asking,speaking, trying to discern,
trying to get validation, justlisten and see what shakes out.
(27:19):
That one press, that one, thatone practice right there allows
you to connect to the divine ina way that most people don't.
In fact, my first time I didthis, it became like a two-page
thing, and I was crying likecrazy.
And I could, it's funny as I wastyping, because I asked for, you
know, I just God speak speak tome, right?
As part of this process.
(27:39):
Um, I didn't even, I could, Iwas, it was happening so fast, I
wasn't even aware of what I hadwrote, other than I was crying
while I was doing it.
And then I got to the end of thedocument and I began like
literally um reading what waswritten, and you can clearly see
it's not my voice.
Okay.
The reason this is so powerfulis because there's a phrase in
the very first time I did itthat says a few different
things.
(28:00):
So, first of all, um, despisenot spall beginnings or painful
transition, one.
And secondly, I am alwaysspeaking, but my children are
seldom listening.
Think about that.
What if you showed up to let Godvalidate you based on what he's
already put inside of you?
What if he, what if you show up?
(28:21):
Um, and I learned this bystudying King David.
How many times do you see Davidhumble himself constantly,
whether he's in a shepherd'sfield, whether he's in a palace,
whether he's just made theboo-boo with uh Bathsheba and is
called out for it, what doesDavid do?
He humbles himself, he putshimself in presence, he puts
himself in a position to listenand learn.
(28:43):
You see, we're not learningbecause we're not listening.
That's why we're not learning.
That's why we're repeating thesame behaviors over and over
again.
And that one journaling practiceand that mantra right there, if
you just do it for 30 to 45 daysstraight without fail and just
commit to that process, Iguarantee you you'll have a
supernatural growth in yourleadership and your ability to
be present and even magnetic infront of other people because
(29:04):
you won't be seeking thevalidation.
You won't be seeking what theyhave, you won't be comparing
yourself to what you don't haveversus what they do have.
You will be anchored in who youare, who you were created to be.
And that's to me is again whatit means to become one part line
and one part lamb.
And that is step one and steptwo.
SPEAKER_02 (29:21):
Dude, so much wisdom there.
Um, seeking validation throughGod instead of the outside
world.
I think uh if you could justlatch onto that, write what
Steven wrote or asked thequestion on, and then just
listen, it would fix a lot ofwhat you you're not wanting to
see in the mirror.
Like so many, and I see it sooften uh through coaching and
(29:45):
just observe observationthroughout the world.
Like most people can't look atcan't stand what looks back at
them in the mirror.
And if you just did that onepractice of seeking validation
through God and not your socialmedia and not the outside world,
and not even your spouse, likeseeking validation through God,
uh, you're gonna fix a lot ofyour internal problems, if not
(30:06):
all of them.
SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
What made you perfect?
SPEAKER_02 (30:12):
You're unique.
I I I state this from stageoften is like, you know how
unique you are?
It's like your fingerprints wereformed, I think it's uh either
10 days or 10 weeks.
I got the 10 right, I just can'tremember in the womb.
And you are the only person onthis planet with those set of
fingerprints.
That's how the FBI can find us.
(30:33):
Only one.
And there's over eight billionpeople on this planet.
So you want to tell me you'renot uniquely created?
And so the point is to live intothat authentic self, that unique
uniqueness that God gave you andonly you and be wholly that and
not something else.
(30:56):
All right, so let's let's keepmoving.
So good.
Um a lot of high performers,successful on paper, but they're
not truly integrated.
And we've we've talked, I think,some about this already, but uh
let's talk about the cost.
What is what does fragmentationcost people when they're not
truly living aligned?
SPEAKER_01 (31:17):
Peace, fulfillment, and meaning.
A lot of the folks that I workwith nowadays, um, I'm either
trying to help them scale theircompanies without scaling
dysfunction, or uh I am helpingpeople that have become high
performers, um, have done reallywell financially.
Some cases, many of them haveexited.
Um, many of the ones that I'veworked with are eight, nine, and
(31:38):
even 10-figure earners.
Um what we try to do is we tryto bring meaning back because a
lot of people I serve withthey've made money but lost
meaning.
And I could talk from that placespecifically because actually,
just before you and I met, um Iwas going through what I think,
what I hope might be my last uhmajor transition period of time
and transformation.
(31:59):
But uh I was sitting, I had soldmy company about a year and a
half earlier, uh, maybe about ayear earlier.
I was sitting in a very nicehome at the top of a mountain in
Utah.
Um, because what I'd born andraised in Raleigh, but when I
sold my company, I went to Utahfor about a year and a half.
I'm back now in the Carolinas onat Lake Norman uh at Safe Haven.
But um I remember being in thathouse, 6,000 plus square feet,
(32:22):
you know, more than enough foryou know me, um having access to
resource, having access tofull-fledged travel, having
access to relation, you know,relationships that other people
would, you know, they would saythat they would die for, so to
speak, or they admired, um,having access to uh liquidity
and business deals and all kindsof stuff.
(32:44):
And I remember having thisepiphany in that moment that I
was just I was actually moreunhappy then than when I was
homeless.
And the reason I was unhappythen is because I had chased and
strived my entire life to go andget the stuff.
Get the accolades, get thehouse, get the cars, get the
(33:08):
toys, um, be successful, youknow, be successful on paper.
My entire identity was tied tobeing successful on paper.
And then you get everything thatyou think you ever wanted on
paper, only to find out that ithas no meaning.
There's nothing wrong withpursuing at with pursuing goals
(33:29):
and aspirations and want tobuild a company and all these
types of things and be and andum having aspirations and
becoming a highly highperforming leader.
Okay.
There's nothing wrong with that.
What I discovered was what's thequestion behind the question,
which is why do you feel likewhy do you need it?
SPEAKER_00 (33:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:49):
Is it to prove yourself or is it to be of
service?
And the major shift, and again,I gave you already some tidbits
as far as the mantra, thejournaling practice, um,
grounding, regulating, workingout routinely, being mindful of
your space, being mindful ofyour heart, being present with
your family.
Dude, one of the, I'll tell youwhat, one of those painful
moments was my oldest son cameto me after a divorce.
(34:10):
Um, and he said, Hey, as far asI'm concerned, you were an
amazing father and amazinghusband.
But if you could do one thing,just one thing better, if you
could just be more present whenyou're present, that would mean
the world to us.
And it, dude, it hit me like aton of bricks because it's
funny.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (34:28):
I can only imagine.
SPEAKER_01 (34:30):
I I may look check this out.
I uh I had these memories popup, and I'm I'm and I'm I'm this
is gonna touch some of yourleaders' hearts because just
because I know the people thatyou steward, you always surround
yourself with great people.
Um, but I remember being presentin the room, being present at
the football practice, beingpresident, being present uh at
band-aids because one of my sonswas a you know was a drum major,
(34:53):
um, being present um duringprom, but I wasn't present.
I had my phone in my hand or mycomputer nearby, or I was like,
can I step out one second, walkover here and answer a text
message?
And honestly, most of it couldhave waited to the next day.
SPEAKER_02 (35:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:11):
But I told myself that the whole, my whole world
was gonna fall apart if I didn'trespond.
Right?
And here's the other thing.
I thought because I could givemy kids expensive trips, take
them to really cool places, getthem around really amazing
people, that I was winning.
They just wanted me to lock eyeswith them for over an hour.
That's all they wanted.
(35:32):
They legitimately didn't careabout the house they lived in.
I mean, they got to enjoy nicestuff, but they didn't care
about the house, the travel.
Like they didn't care.
Right?
And when I I feel like when Iget to heaven, God is gonna look
at me and say, How well did yousteward the family that I gave
you?
He's not gonna, he's notnecessarily gonna say, Well,
congratulations, you became anine-figure business owner.
Woo-hoo! He doesn't care aboutmoney.
(35:54):
You know what I'm saying?
He wants to see how you led, howyou stewarded, what you believed
in.
And so if you could understandthere's a greater calling behind
ongoing development and ongoingleadership, inevitably what
happens is you don't uh makemoney and lose meaning.
You happen to have meaning, andit's a byproduct, you make
money.
Yeah, right.
And as because of that, you canserve.
(36:15):
Like you, I don't know if youknew this, Josh, but you may or
may not, but there isapproximately um$7 billion of
annual need for foster caresystem, homelessness, education,
housing, clothing, um, prettymuch every major world challenge
(36:39):
can be answered annually forabout$7 billion, right?
So education then createsmentorship, mentorship then
creates momentum, et cetera,right?
There's$37 trillion in the handsof professing believers.
So it when I feel like when weget to heaven, God is gonna look
(36:59):
at us and say, I gave you animmaculate amount of resources.
And you chose us to spend it onthe extra house or on the extra
toy.
Or, you know what I'm saying?
I don't, I don't want, I don'twant him to be able to use that
as a tool to say I didn'tsteward it well.
I want to be a good steward.
(37:20):
So like I even have an internalprocess where it's like if I can
give away, if I can go buy a$200,000 car, I can also afford
to give, I can also afford togive away$200,000 that year.
So I have a 50-50 ratio.
But inevitably, if your meaningand identity are tied to
anything other than service andbeing of service and being a
good steward, you willinevitably feel empty,
(37:42):
misaligned.
And honestly, you you may loseyour family along the way.
You may lose people that youlove along the way.
I can't tell me people I'veworked with that they it was the
catalyst of losing all that theyreally cared about that finally
said, What the hell am I doing?
SPEAKER_02 (37:58):
Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_01 (37:59):
Right.
And that awareness changesthings.
SPEAKER_02 (38:01):
Yep.
Two of the two things are comingto mind is uh one is the only
thing you can bring to heavenwith you is your children.
Not any of your stuff, not anyof your businesses, none of your
wealth, none of it.
There's no never been a U-Haulfollowing a hearse.
And so uh we got to keep that inmind.
Secondly, was it's amazing howGod orchestrates timing and
(38:24):
conversations because just thismorning I was on a call with uh
a buddy out of Michigan, and acouple weeks ago he was at a MA
conference, Mergers andAcquisitions, uh, for those that
don't know that acronym uh andit was one of those closed
sessions.
He's in there with a bunch ofsuits and they're talking about
uh how they go about doingbusiness, mergers, acquisitions,
(38:46):
and then they put up a stat onthe screen, and he that's where
he said he wished he could havetaken the picture.
But uh said 90% of businessowners that exit within three
months have depression.
And you and I have been throughexits, I went through uh happy
exits and a sad exit.
Uh but even my father, who wentthrough a very uh uh very good
(39:09):
exit, uh, was depressed for twoyears because meaning and
purpose was stripped.
And that's exactly what you'retalking about, right?
So it's it's not your business,isn't your purpose.
And you gotta divine, you gottafigure out that divine meaning
of why you're doing for service.
And and also if you are abusiness owner that's listening
(39:29):
and going, hey, I'm on the kindof heels of trying to transition
my business, I want you to havea purpose and meaning lined up
before that exit happens.
And it could be, like you said,uh a Christian organization
that's uh feeding the homeless.
I don't care it could benonprofit, for free, whatever.
(39:51):
You determine what that meaningand purpose is for your level of
service in life and where you'reat, and you run towards that
because you will fall intodepression.
The stats already said 90%,that's an overwhelming majority.
You're not gonna enjoy being onthe golf course every day.
You're not my dad couldn't huntevery day of he would hunt every
day of his life, but that didn'tbring him meaning any, anyhow.
(40:12):
Or uh, so again, you've got tohave that meaning and purpose
before you transition becausethe day you sell, the next
morning you wake up and there'snothing there and no
responsibilities and nothinglike you go through a big mental
transition and hurdle to face,and it's a life-changing moment.
SPEAKER_01 (40:29):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
That's so good.
I would say that if you're aboutto set up for an exit, um I
would go to God in that in thatjournaling practice and say, you
know, and kind of be and beopen-minded to hearing, okay,
what's what am I called to next?
Uh I think when you like I wouldsay there's actually three three
major pillars of when you'rewhen you sell a company and you
(40:50):
exit.
Um, one, go take the vacationthat you probably never took
with your family and let it bean extended one.
Let it be a 30, 40-day vacationin Europe or Greece or you know,
wherever, wherever it is you'vealways wanted to go that you've
never done.
And be completely free, right?
No, no thoughts of the futureper se, write it right off the
(41:11):
bat.
Number two, come back with theheart of service, go find to
your point, go find a nonprofitthat you can just serve for a
little bit and kind of seewhat's what's there and what
what could be next.
And then three, then you canlook at your next investment.
Maybe you're maybe um I've I'vediscovered that the third pillar
for me is teaching what Ilearned as a byproduct for 25
years, right?
So there's there's a part ofconnection with my family.
(41:32):
There was a part of umcharitable contribution via
time, talent, and resource.
And then the third one obviouslywas um, you know, really kind of
figuring out, okay, what did Ilearn and how can I help
humanity with what I've learned?
Um, I find that those three legsgive us at least a frame of
reference to discover what itmeans to have meaning um when
(41:52):
you have everything on theplanet.
Like so, because you again,we're I think I feel like God
created us to be of service,right?
And I think that was one of thethings you mentioned earlier
when we're talking about uhthought leader.
Um, I would say I would even saythought leader friends that
maybe are still very much ontheir own journey as far as you
know being um being whole, beingthe same on stage as they are
elsewhere.
(42:13):
Um, you know, so I'm I'm notcritical because I've also been
on that same journey of the timethat I wanted to stage more than
I wanted to serve.
Right.
I'm very, I've been very publicabout that.
So I think those three arecomponents will give someone
who's looking to exit or wantsto exit um line of sight of what
they need to be thinking aboutand feeling into before they do
that.
Because you're right.
(42:35):
30, 45 days.
I don't even, I don't even thinkit took me 90 days.
Like I was literally, I woke upevery day at five o'clock to go
do X, Y, and Z when I was, youknow, working and building and
stuff.
It might have been 30 days.
And I was already like, likeI've already watched all the
movies I wanted to watch.
I've already gone all the time,you know, I started going to
places I like it, like there'sno such thing as a perpetual
(42:57):
vacation.
SPEAKER_02 (42:58):
Yeah, you know, well, like for you, uh you're
spot on number my last one was asad sale, sad exit.
But uh I wrote in my journal, Iput it in my book, like that
next Monday when so I I you knoweverything got ripped away on
the Wednesday prior.
That next Monday, I wake up andI'm used to being charged on
Monday.
A new week, a new day to getthings uh going, to move in the
(43:20):
direction we want to go.
Like, and I wake up and I gotnothing.
Yeah and I'm sitting there onwith my, you know, sitting on my
hands trying to figure out,well, what am I gonna do?
I don't have that purpose isremoved.
So it's uh it's a hard mentaltransition.
And I just want people to becognizant of that as they go on.
And um that's why retirement'sso hard on people too.
(43:41):
And it's funny I say thatbecause I literally in my career
in the financial world helppeople retire.
But uh now I'm sitting theregoing, I think we need to
question what retirement reallymeans.
SPEAKER_01 (43:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
To me, retirement is nothingmore than being going to do what
you want when you want.
Right.
So It's not, and when I saythat, it's I don't mean from a
place of like you can have aperpetual vacation.
What I mean is like take theattributes of yourself that God
created within you, that He usesto amplify others around you,
(44:15):
and then use those techniques toteach other people how to be
amplified.
You know, I'm a big believer in,you know, it's funny.
Um I I feel like I said itfirst, then Rory copied me, then
Ed copied him.
Um, but I used to say from stageall the time that the greatest
purpose in life you'll ever haveis serving the person you used
to be.
Now, everybody, their brothersnow modified that in their own
(44:35):
vernacular, which is finebecause it's it's still a
principle and a life truth.
But I feel like the people, whenyou when you get to a place
where you can really truly giveback time, talent, and
resources, wisdom, right?
Essentially what you're doing isyou're helping the 19 version of
yourself, the 25-year-oldversion of yourself, a
30-year-old version of yourself,40, like you learn things at
(44:57):
certain milestones that decreasethe pain for others in their
present day to day, but only ifyou put your position, you put
yourself in a position to servethem uh with excellence.
You know, and I think that'swhere significance and meaning
can really come from becauseit's not coming from the
outside, it's actually comingfrom the inside as a gift to
others.
SPEAKER_02 (45:17):
Yeah, that's so good.
Well, man, we're wrapping up ontime.
As you guys can probably tell,brother Stephen and I could talk
for hours, but uh, we both gotstuff to get to.
Uh so I always ask this questionat the end.
It's um, and this could be onanything we've spoken of or just
whatever comes to your heart.
But what's an unpopular beliefyou hold to be true that most
others disagree with?
SPEAKER_01 (45:40):
Um, that you're you may have been victimized, but
you're not a victim.
I see a lot of us, um we we uhthe word I comes to mind is the
word label.
So I I have been divorced, butI'm not divorced.
Right?
Um I have been a Napoleon, butI'm not Napoleon.
(46:01):
Like you said, I'm saying like Iwe place label limiting labels
on ourselves because we feelshameful, guilty, or whatever
about ourselves that thenimpedes us from growing into the
person we are ultimatelydesigned to grow.
Um, the Bible says very clearlythat God wastes nothing.
Yes, he wastes nothing, right?
No adversity, no challenge, nosetback, no advancement, no you
(46:24):
know, praise, whole hallelujahmoments.
He uses everything, not just forthe moment of your good, but so
you can be good to other people.
And I feel like I've I've workedwith a lot of people and they've
had things happen to them umthat could be in the form of
being victimized, but thatdoesn't make them a victim.
And if they take on the identityof a victim, they'll never take
(46:46):
on the identity of a victor.
Because victims have to become avictor in order to actually have
momentum and progress forward.
So I think that's probably thebiggest one um that comes to
mind just in recent weeks.
SPEAKER_02 (46:58):
Well, no, it's so good because you and I are both
living proof of it, whether youcount your homelessness, my
business being ripped away fromme, and everything in between
for us, we've continued to moveforward.
And as long as you move throughthose challenges and understand
the meaning behind them, gotyou'll learn that God wastes
nothing.
And so that's so good.
(47:18):
So in wrapping up, where canpeople follow you, find you?
What's the best mediums?
SPEAKER_01 (47:23):
Yeah, so the good news is I'm pretty much
everywhere.
Uh S T A P S T E P H E and soStephen, pronounced Stephen by
that's right.
Scoggins, S T O G G I N S.
I think if I could leave yourlisteners and your viewers with
something important just forthem.
Um, we've been working reallyhard behind the scenes to create
(47:44):
uh uh assessment of sorts thathelps you understand really
where you are on the hierarchyof where the constraints are
versus where where you can moveto.
Um, because I mentioned becomingone part lion and one part lamb.
Um if your leaders want to gotake that assessment for
themselves, we don't sell athing at the end of it, by the
way.
There's nothing to be, there'snothing to purchase.
Um it's you can go tostepenscoggins.com slash leader
(48:06):
and take it.
I will tell you that theassessment takes about 10
minutes.
So it's not like super quick.
And I want you to be thoughtfulwith your responses, but it'll
give you a lot of clarity onwhere you are, where you could
go, and maybe some steps toactually get you there along the
way.
So I would encourage them to dothat more than anything else.
Um, everything that we do isbuilt around serving the leader
because I believe if I canchange the leader, that leader
(48:27):
can change 10 leaders.
And by as a byproduct, uh, wecan make a kingdom impact
together.
SPEAKER_02 (48:32):
Love it.
So everyone, go take thatassessment.
Follow Steven as you saw andheard today.
So much wisdom that he'sdropping, so much service that
he's given back to the world.
Uh, thank you so much, myfriend, for coming on Spartan
Leadership.
Always, brother.
I love you, man.
I love everything you're doing.
Love you too.
So, Spartans, you know what todo.
Share this episode far and wide.
Remember, the good and great arethe enemies of possible.
(48:53):
Lead like a Spartan today.
Inevitably, what happens is love overtakes the
parts of you that are alwaysscared because resistance always
comes from fear.
It always comes from form someform or fashion of fear.
Fear of not being enough, fearof not being seen, fear of not
being heard, fear of not beingappreciated, fear of not being
able to be connected, fear ofnot being able to grow, fear of
not being able to grow abusiness, right?
(00:20):
These these little and sometimesthey're subtle.
They're subtle little nudges.
But what happens is when thatgets activated and it hasn't
been dealt with, it becomes anexplosion and creates three or
four other problems, right?
So you're rather thancompounding internally on the
highly developed leadership, youend up compounding on
firefighting, creating chaos,creating overwhelm and burnout.
Most of us stay burn out andoverwhelm, not because there's a
(00:42):
lot on our plate, but insteadbecause our nervous system
hasn't dealt with the fact aboutthe subconscious program that's
trying to drive the insecuritiesthat are there.
I start off every day with amarch-up.
I do this every morning.
I do it four times.
And in between each of thestatements, I actually take a
deep breath and a slow exhale.
So it would look something likethis.
SPEAKER_02 (01:25):
Today we'll be no different.
I got a good buddy on the horn.
We are uh coming Zoom today, buthey, we're gonna deliver the
impact either way.
So let me give a briefintroduction to my friend Steven
Scoggins.
Steven is someone who helpsleaders bring alignment where
there is chaos, clarity wherethere's confusion, and structure
where things feel heavy orbroken.
(01:46):
His work sits at theintersection of leadership,
systems, faith, and identity.
He's deeply focused on helpingpeople lead as integrated
humans, not fragmented ones.
So success doesn't cost themtheir health, their families, or
their purpose.
So as you guys hear that, youknow him and I are deeply
aligned, as he just said to mebefore we got on, kind of
(02:07):
brothers from another mother.
Uh so Steven, welcome to theshow, brother.
Dude, such an honor to be withyou, man.
SPEAKER_01 (02:12):
Love you, man.
I miss you, dude.
We got we I can't wait to haveyou out to the safe haven and
get you on that, get you on oursas well.
SPEAKER_02 (02:18):
That's right.
Like I just booked with you inApril.
Our schedules, uh, you do itsmarter than me.
You you have designated days forpodcasts where I just do it
where I can fit them in.
Uh, but I couldn't align it tillApril because of both of our
busy calendars.
But yeah, but yeah, we're gonnarock it either way.
So let's let's hop right inbecause I know time is precious
for both of us.
Sure.
Uh, you know, you and I got tomeet up at Renee Rodriguez's
(02:41):
home where we're both goingthrough it.
Uh, his Amplify uh workshop,which was world class.
But you know what wasinteresting about that?
And for those of you that don'tknow, so Renee helps people uh
find their authentic selves inspeaking and communicating in
front of whether it's aboardroom, a large crowd, a
dinner table, doesn't matter.
And Steven and I uh do a lot ofwork on stages, and Steven has
(03:03):
been on some amazingly bigstages, and so it's kind of
curious as there's people in theroom that had really never
spoken in front of anyone, andthen you got Stephen and I have
spoken in front of hundreds andthousands of people, and we got
asked the question Hey, why whyare you guys why are you two
here?
And we were able to humblyanswer is like we're looking to
get better, like always lookingto get better, and you were at
(03:25):
the forefront of that.
So, what what does that mean toyou?
Like you're always constantlygrowing and evolving.
What what what was the impetus,whether it was early on in life
or later in life, for you tocontinue to grow like that?
SPEAKER_01 (03:35):
Yeah, you know, it's interesting because I um I live
a life of epiphanies, right?
And you got to put yourself infertile soil to have these
epiphanies, these catalyticmoments that kind of like you
know can really move youforward.
And when we did Renee's event,first of all, never look at
toasting ever the same.
You know, we'll let the we'lllet the audience go go uh be
(03:56):
part of that process and they'llunderstand.
But um, at the end of the day, Ihad sold a company about a year
earlier um that I'd spent about25 years building from a
literally literally the trashpiles of a construction site.
Um, you know, my my stories, mystory's kind of public now.
So it would, you know, as wedon't rehash it a lot, but you
know, um, there's a lot ofidentity and a lot of character,
a lot of uh capacityimprovements that needed to
(04:18):
happen from homelessness to youknow ultimately scaling almost a
nine-figure business.
Um but more importantly, I wasgoing through a pretty uh
transformative change.
I'd had Renee on the podcast,and uh he just invited me,
right, to come be part of thisevent.
And lo and behold, it ended upbeing a very transformative
experience.
Uh, not just you and I becomingbrothers from another mother,
(04:39):
but um also giving me newawareness of where leadership
struggles happen, right?
As someone who has scaledleadership teams, scaled and
built companies, uh tries tokind of impact at scale
nowadays.
Uh, one of the things I realizedis you can't scale dysfunction.
You can't do it.
Um, it doesn't matter if it's inyour home, it doesn't matter if
(05:01):
it's in your relationships, itdoesn't matter if it's in your
business or your leadership ingeneral.
Um, and dysfunctiondysfunctional um dysregulation
comes primarily from self beforeit impacts the outer world.
So I've been I had this newawareness, this new epiphany of
um basically your externalbusiness is the embodiment or
the or the uh uh the view ofyour internal world.
(05:25):
So I think for me, one of mybiggest takeaways is I'm always
looking to figure out what's thenext level for Steven.
And I used to do it for an areaof growth for myself.
Now I'm doing it much more froman area of growth, not just for
myself and my family, but moreimportantly from the people who
who call me mentor, call mefriend, call me leader, right?
(05:48):
Um, I want to be the bestversion of myself day in and day
out.
I shared with you off air that Ispent time with uh quite a bit
of time with David Meltzerrecently, um the last couple of
days, and our uh our good friendChristy as well.
And one of the things I watchedDavid do, um, and this this like
stood out to me, um, is Davidwent from being on stage for a
(06:08):
40-minute keynote straight intouh doing two coaching sessions
back to back in front of me, um,you know, with a phone, hopping
on a podcast with me, hoppingoff the podcast with me, into
another coaching session whileeating lunch, while
simultaneously um, you know,teaching and mentoring another
leader across literally thatjust happened to be in the room
watching the podcast.
(06:30):
And I thought to myself, this isprobably one of the highest
capacity leaders atfunctionality that I've seen.
And I get a lot done in a day.
Like I'm no slouch.
But David made me feel like,dude, like there's there's more
to be done.
So I think I think if I canunderstand, and I think this is
this is important, if leaderscan understand that leadership
(06:51):
is never done, development isnever done.
It's not it, it's not an end ofthe journey.
It's much more of a um, theword, I think the word I would
use, it's it's much more of amaturing process.
So the more time you spendinvesting in yourself around
people like yourself, aroundpeople like Renee, around people
like David, you know, EdMilette, for example, is a
(07:12):
friend.
Like all if the more you spendtime around people, you start
seeing the intangibles.
And I think the tricky part isum is taking the lessons that
help you raise your character,your capacity, while
simultaneously not falling intocomparison syndrome of those
that you admire and respect.
And I think there's a dancethere specifically, which is why
(07:33):
I'm always asking myself in thisgiven moment, um, and I'm not
getting the result that I want.
Am I attempting to scaledysfunction in communication, in
how I think, in how I process,in what I believe?
Um and I think that's at thecore of why I'm always hungry
for growth.
I don't want I never want tostop growing.
Like I'm I I'll I can I can dothat when I when I pass from
(07:56):
this earth and then the nextplane, um, I could stop growing
at that point and see whatheaven's like and see what the
guy kind of growth curve there.
SPEAKER_02 (08:01):
So that's I mean that's you know, it's awesome.
Great answer.
And and you talked about thedance because you know, Ed's a
friend, Renee, yourself.
Um, I don't know David Meltzeryet, but that's just a short
time coming, as we spoke about.
But um because you can fall intothe comparison game and you can
think also like, oh, I should bedoing that when in reality what
(08:25):
you there's some things that Eddoes that I don't like.
I respect him immensely.
Yeah, respect him immensely, butthere's certain pieces of him
that I don't want to be as well.
So you also that part of thatdance is going, what can I take
from this high-level leader thatresonates with me and my soul
and what doesn't fit instead ofme just trying to replicate
exactly what they do because Iwant to be exactly where they're
(08:47):
at.
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
Yeah, exactly.
Well, and at the end of the day,you got to start asking, what is
mine to carry and what is mineto convert?
Right?
So you've you've got to carrythe weight of the responsibility
and accountability as a leaderof being as congruent as you
possibly can.
And I'll give you a frame ofreference here in just a second.
The other thing is what can youconvert?
What uh, as you just mentioned,with uh, you know, people that
(09:08):
we admire, they've been in,they've do great things in the
world.
Many of them are big businesses,many of them can be strong
leaders, um, but they're likeeverybody else, they're they're
human, right?
They're valuable.
I'm human, I'm valuable.
There are leadership traits.
Um, and I'll give you, I'll giveyou an easy one.
Like I, you we were talking alittle bit off air.
Um, I used to be verydomineering, controlling energy
(09:31):
type, not because I was tryingto hurt or wound people, I
simply wasn't aware of it.
I was simply trying to literallygo from homelessness to getting
stability, right?
And out of that came a lot ofextra tenacity and grit.
Um, so much so that when I'mtrying to figure out what I'm
supposed to carry and what I'msupposed to convert, I started
looking at it through the lensof what I like to call the five
constraints.
(09:51):
Um, you know, in business andleadership and all kinds of
different things, statisticswould say, you know, lack of
sales, lack of marketing, pooruh poor product positioning, um,
lack of financial uh cash flowand resources are all the
reasons that business andleaders typically go under.
I discovered when I just lookback at my own journey of
(10:11):
scaling a company from nothingto something, that those were
nothing more than symptoms ofwhat most leaders in businesses
really struggle with.
Um, that it's actually far moreuh behavioral and integral.
And so I said, okay, well, whatwas the moments that caused me
the greatest stress, greatestproblems, greatest team member
breakdown, greatest issues in myrelationships, greatest issues
(10:35):
with my kids.
And everything I'm and I've lostmillions of dollars, right, with
what I'm about to say, came outof emotional dysregulation,
right?
Not being able to regulatemyself, not being aware of what
was causing the frustration thatseems to be just a reactive
response without ever askingmyself why.
So when I took that and I torethat apart, I was like, okay,
(10:57):
well, what are the attributes?
What are what's actuallyconstricting my airway that's
preventing from me communicatingin a in a beautiful real level?
What's coming, what's preventingme from being grounded and
regulated and and just present,right, as a leader with my team?
What am I what am I scared of?
And all these kinds of things.
And essentially I came up to thethe what I call the constraints,
(11:18):
and which is arrogance,ignorance, impatience, fear, and
insecurity.
These five emotional triggers orsubconscious programs, if you
will, drive all kinds of bizarreexternal behavior.
So when I started looking at,okay, what does it, what would
I, what would it mean to becomea fully integrated leader?
(11:40):
Well, I simply have to move fromthe five constraints to their
five opposites, right?
So if the a constraint isarrogance, one of the one of the
opposites of arrogance ishumility.
Well, what does it mean to showup in a human in a humble way,
but not being a pushover, right?
The next one's ignorance.
Okay, what's the opposite ofignorance?
(12:01):
The the opposite of ignorance isteachability.
How often am I seekingmentorship?
How often am I inviting my youknow my friends and colleagues
that know me really well topoint out blind spots that I can
respectfully, without arrogance,look at objectively to see is
there truth there and what needsto change?
Right.
And I think the one that wasreally interesting, and I did
this um at uh recently, I'vedone it several times at a
(12:23):
couple several events, but Ihave I'll say, okay, well, the
third constraint, folks, isimpatience.
I'm curious.
I'll actually ask this, I'll askthis question uh before I even
share it with them.
I'll say, curious, by show ofhands, who thinks you should be
further ahead than you actuallyare?
And without fail, 100% of thehands go without fail every
time.
And I said, you know what'sfunny?
I used to feel the same way.
(12:44):
And that came down toimpatience, right?
Well, the opposite of impatienceis not patience, it's presence.
It's being where your feet are,right?
And being responsible, beinggrateful, being mindful, um,
taking um data that you have andcreating a strategy.
You know, I know you do a lot ofwork with entrepreneurs and um
in entrepreneurial systems, andyou know how important it is to
(13:06):
tie it to try to removeself-triggering emotional
responses from data you'reactually looking at so you can
make a really good decision.
The problem is, is you can't dothat unless you're literally
present in the moment, presentwith your team, present with the
data, right?
It can learn to breathe throughcertain things, you know.
And then you look at fear andinsecurity.
Like, I don't know about you,but I battled fear of success
(13:29):
and fear of failure.
Yep.
I also battled fear of not beingenough.
Like, so that's comes down toinsecurity and worthiness,
right?
So the opposite of fear to me iscompounded faith by looking at
other times where you thoughtthe world was going to crumble
or something else that was gonnacrumble, and somehow, somehow,
God showed up and essentiallynot only took you through that,
but when he took you throughthat, he developed, he continued
(13:51):
to develop people through that,if that makes any sense.
And then you look at insecurity,you know, and insecurity, when
you're looking at insecurity,you're looking at um, why do I
feel like I need to compete,compare, or otherwise downplay
who I am as a person rather thanjust being the authentic version
of who I am.
And you know, you start lookingat these constraints, and all of
a sudden you you can start tobreathe again.
(14:11):
Because now you got a place togo, you got a frame of
reference.
SPEAKER_02 (14:14):
Yeah, so good.
And what was coming to mind isjust yesterday I get a text from
my wife.
Hey, you need to talk to yourson when you get home.
Uh my eight-year-old son hit oneof his friends at recess.
Um, he got in another littlequarrel.
This time it was his partner.
Uh yeah, that's right.
Uh and you know, part of it is,you know, raising a son, like I
(14:38):
do teach him to he has threeolder sisters, so I do teach him
defense and how we go about it.
So, but there's lessons inmaturity there, right?
Like one of the conversationpoints last time is like, Cam,
just because you can fightdoesn't mean you should.
Here's here are the pro here arethe reasons when we fight to
defend yourself or your sisters,right?
(15:00):
Uh or to get out of uh harm'sway, whatever it may be, like in
that regard.
Uh but though those are just acouple examples because what
you're saying is emotionalregulation.
Like that's what once we loseour emotions, that's when we
lose.
And so your five constraints uhyou've worked so hard on, which
leads me before we get in themeat and potatoes, the one story
(15:21):
I wanted to tell from Renee'sevent is I took a risk and paid
you a compliment.
And the reason I said it was arisky compliment was let me
explain, is I I went up toSteven and I said, dude, for a
short dude, you are justamazingly humble and you have
zero like uh Napoleon syndromeenergy.
Because I've been around a lotof shorter dudes that have had
(15:42):
like the over-bravado kind ofarrogance trying to make up for
something uh because they'vebeen either made fun of or
whatever throughout their life.
And and your response back to mewas equally humble.
You said, Thank you.
I've worked really hard on that.
And so I think that like whatyou just stated, like working on
those five constraints withinyourself has um empowered you to
(16:03):
become such a uh transcendentleader with others.
SPEAKER_01 (16:07):
Thank you.
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, I you know, I um one ofthe things that I try to get
leaders to understand, whetherthe business leaders, pastoral
leaders, leaders of their home,um, doesn't matter if a male or
female, what I try to get themto understand is we all have
limiting beliefs that createinsecurities that then play out
(16:29):
in front of us.
And the only way to deal withthem, to become the most humbly
confident version of yourself isto know the value you bring, but
more importantly, start seeingvalue in others.
So when we're sitting there umat Renee's event, um, you know,
what gosh, like it's been what,a year, year and a half ago now,
(16:50):
two years.
Um, you know, I picked upsomething really, really
profound.
One of the other uh folks there,um, and I don't have permission
to share his name, so I'm notgoing to, but one of the other
folks there uh had been throughsome pretty challenging
childhood trauma like I had,right?
And and this this concept thatuh that Renee brought that
(17:11):
brought that Renee gave me, hegave me language to something I
couldn't articulate, which isthe importance of becoming a
warrior in the garden.
Right?
So a warrior in the garden isprepared for battle, but doesn't
seek the battle, right?
They they seek to be of service,they seek to plant, sow, reap,
and harvest.
Um, but if they need to pull upa sword or go to go to work or
(17:34):
go to battle, they do it, butthey do so with integrity.
Right?
It's not just the sheer grit,you know.
And one of my favorite clips in300 is uh, and I've seen this in
a couple of your shows as well,is like, this is Sparta, or you
know, what is your profession?
Right.
And while I love that, I'mthinking to myself, there's an
(17:55):
embodiment of what it means tobe a warrior in the garden,
right?
Um, and if you're not prepared,you'll either be an overly
assertive warrior or you'll beessentially a gardener in a war.
And I'll I'll say it this way.
So you and I love, um, we'repeople of faith, right?
So I can share this concept.
So if your audience doesn'tfollow me or doesn't believe
like we believe, just borrow myfaith for just a second.
(18:16):
There's a story in the Bibleabout uh a young man named
David, who is being stewarded bya king named Saul.
He just happens to come upthrough the ranks, and David is
largely out in the shepherd'sfield, not really having to do a
lot.
I'm not doing, I mean, notsorry, he's largely he's in the
shepherd's field by himself withnothing but him and sheep and
God in a heart.
(18:38):
All right.
Meanwhile, you've got Saul who'sin a who's essentially becomes
the first king of Israel, whoover time um starts to act in a
disobedient way because he needsthe approval and validation of
other people.
Okay, David, on the other hand,becomes a king over time, so
much so that he has a chance tokill Saul in a cave and chooses
(18:59):
not to, because in his words, Iwill not touch the I will not
touch the Lord's anointed.
Even though by that time Davidhad already been anointed as the
new king of Israel.
What happens is when you look atthe contrast between those two
individuals, those two types ofleaders, right?
At Saul's worst, um, he wascontrolling, domineering, and
(19:20):
had to get the approval of thepeople to feel validated and
somehow um appreciative, right?
David, on the other hand, justsought to serve.
He never really needed the crowdto say, hey, you've killed your
10,000, or hey, you can play theharp like the best when the
business.
And what that done, what thatdid is that helped me understand
the contrast between what I liketo call becoming one part lion
(19:44):
and one part lamb.
Okay, the embodiment of twoenergetic forces that cohesively
cohabitate together.
Inevitably, what happens is, andwe you saw a little bit of this
with a pendulum uh thing that Idrew as trying to serve one of
the other members there, um, isyou have this maturity and
immaturity in the leadershipstyle.
(20:05):
Okay.
So to me, in order to rise,lead, and last long term, you
have to become one part lion andone part lamb in complete
maturity.
So if I look at David and Saulas contrasting components,
right?
Um, a mature lion is going to becourageous, protective, bold,
and then enduring.
Okay.
An immature lion is going to bedomineering, controlling,
(20:26):
egotistical, arrogant, and bydefinition, um, essentially
someone who repels peoplebecause people don't feel safe,
right?
Safety is actually a veryimportant word when it comes to
leadership.
Um, and most of us are there'swe're so aware of our out, like
our eyes out that we don't knowmuch about our um call it our
(20:48):
eyes in, like in the into ourheart, into our soul, right?
You should flip the other side,you got the you got the lion,
you got the lamb, okay.
You got the immature lamb, yougot a mature lamb.
An immature lamb is peoplepleasing, overprotect um, what's
called over functioning.
Um, they self-abandon on aregular basis, right?
And on the mature side ofthings, they are compassionate,
(21:08):
loyal, loving, and ability tocommunicate at almost like a
divine level.
When you take the contrast, youstart seeing the criteria of
moving from one to the other.
So um I've people have asked medifferent questions in different
ways, but yours essentially wasokay, well, how did you go?
How did you really work on thisNapoleon thing and try to become
a grounded, well-regulated, wellpresent leader?
(21:30):
It's simple.
I work my ass off to become onepart lion and one part lamb in
the most mature capacityforward.
And I'm still doing thatactively every single day.
Every single day I'm pouringinto myself.
I'm spending time with ajournal.
I'm spending time saying, hey,what do I hear you say today?
And I listen, right?
These components allow us tobecome more present, more
(21:50):
grounded, more regulated.
And as a result, we we are ableto indwell more truth, more
revelation.
And essentially, we don't evenhave to say a word, right?
Great leaders, you can literallyfeel them in the room.
Right.
And you do that through theembodiment process I just
described.
SPEAKER_02 (22:07):
Yeah, that's so good.
I said this just yesterday, andit kind of speaks to what you're
uh getting at here.
I was like, and you you've beenon this circuit, you've been on
stages with some of thesepeople, I'm sure, like I have.
Is the the fake seems real untilreal enters the room.
It's so good, dude.
(22:28):
That's so good.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And uh it's it it's sointeresting.
So there's there's a lot offrauds that get have great
marketing systems out there.
And uh, I'm not gonna throwanyone under the bus publicly,
but uh I know you've been onstages with them, I have as
well.
And um when you or I walk in theroom, because we're so grounded
(22:49):
and authentic in who we are, youcan already feel their
insecurities popping up and theygo over over kind of over-rotate
to the bravado.
And uh so I'm thinking aboutthis is like someone's listening
to this and resonating deeplywith your words right now, and
they want what you have.
What would you say is if youcould go back to step one of
(23:10):
starting to work on Steven andturning into part lion, part
lamb, what guidance would yougive them?
SPEAKER_01 (23:17):
I think step one is gonna be love the parts of
yourself you normally resist.
So, what I mean by that is everylast one of us has parts of
ourselves, layers, if you will,um, that we're not proud of,
we're not happy with.
Maybe we react a certain wayrepeatedly and it's a behavior
pattern, and that because ofthat, we feel a little bit of
shame.
And so um in order to love partsof yourself you normally resist,
(23:42):
you have to begin to accept theparts of yourself you want to
resist.
And here's what I've here's whatI've discovered is when you can
when you can begin that process,and I'll give you like a little
mantra to kind of just get theget the get the thing growing
going in a second.
When you can pull these thingstogether, inevitably what
happens is love overtakes theparts of you that are always
scared.
Because resistance always comesfrom fear.
(24:04):
It always comes from form someform or fashion of fear.
Fear of not being enough, fearof not being seen, fear of not
being heard, fear of not beingappreciated, fear of not being
able to be connected, fear ofnot being able to grow, fear of
not being able to grow abusiness, right?
These these little, andsometimes they're subtle.
They're subtle little nudges.
But what happens is when thatgets activated and it hasn't
(24:25):
been dealt with, it becomes anexplosion and creates three or
four other problems, right?
So you're rather thancompounding internally on the
highly developed leadership, youend up compounding on
firefighting, creating chaos,creating overwhelm and burnout.
Most of us stay burnt out andoverwhelmed, not because there's
a lot on our plate, but insteadbecause our nervous system
hasn't dealt with the fact aboutthe subconscious program that's
(24:47):
trying to drive the insecuritiesthat are there.
So I'll give you the easiest waynot to deal with this, and I did
that I do this every day still.
Um, I start off every day uhwith a mantra mantra.
I do this every morning, I do itfour times, and in between each
of the statements, I actuallytake a deep breath and a slow
exhale.
So it would look something likethis I am healthy.
(25:12):
I am wealthy.
I am wise.
I am a steward of the most high.
And the most difficult one todo, especially in the mirror, is
I love you, Stephen.
(25:32):
Most of us have to go through aprocess of reparenting ourselves
in order for us to be reallyconnected to the fullness of
this divine energy that God putin our hearts and our minds to
begin with.
In other words, we were bornwith created value and the world
compression itself, identity,comparison, and securities, this
which was exacerbated by socialmedia in general, um, teaches us
(25:54):
that unless we're this, we'renot enough.
When in reality, we're already,we're already this, we're
already the thing that Godcreated us to be, and all we
have to do is operate in that.
So this mantra is a step-by-stepprocess that allows you to begin
to appreciate yourself, loveyourself, reparent yourself.
And as a result, you no longerneed any of the world's
validation, right?
(26:15):
I don't need to start allbecause I step on a big stage,
does not need I don't need tohave the validation of the green
room.
I don't need to have thevalidation of the audience.
My heart is to serve.
I'm showing up to serve becauseI'm a steward of the most high.
It reframes how and why Ioperate, right?
And I'm doing it from a place oflove and not a place of need or
scarcity or fear, right?
(26:36):
The next step in the process,step one is the mantra.
Step two is going to be what Icall a journaling practice that
I started actually during thetime you and I met.
Um, I was doing it every singleday for about six months
straight.
Now I do it about twice a week,just not only because I'm
feeling um, I'm not feelingcalled to do it every day.
But if you're this you're justgetting started, I would say do
(26:57):
it every day.
Grab a journal.
As soon as you're done with themantra, before you go to the
gym, before you get on yourphone, before you get on TV, and
just write at the top of thepage what I hear you say is in
today's day.
And rather than asking,speaking, trying to discern,
trying to get validation, justlisten and see what shakes out.
(27:19):
That one press, that one, thatone practice right there allows
you to connect to the divine ina way that most people don't.
In fact, my first time I didthis, it became like a two-page
thing, and I was crying likecrazy.
And I could, it's funny as I wastyping, because I asked for, you
know, I just God speak speak tome, right?
As part of this process.
(27:39):
Um, I didn't even, I could, Iwas, it was happening so fast, I
wasn't even aware of what I hadwrote, other than I was crying
while I was doing it.
And then I got to the end of thedocument and I began like
literally um reading what waswritten, and you can clearly see
it's not my voice.
Okay.
The reason this is so powerfulis because there's a phrase in
the very first time I did itthat says a few different
things.
(28:00):
So, first of all, um, despisenot spall beginnings or painful
transition, one.
And secondly, I am alwaysspeaking, but my children are
seldom listening.
Think about that.
What if you showed up to let Godvalidate you based on what he's
already put inside of you?
What if he, what if you show up?
(28:21):
Um, and I learned this bystudying King David.
How many times do you see Davidhumble himself constantly,
whether he's in a shepherd'sfield, whether he's in a palace,
whether he's just made theboo-boo with uh Bathsheba and is
called out for it, what doesDavid do?
He humbles himself, he putshimself in presence, he puts
himself in a position to listenand learn.
(28:43):
You see, we're not learningbecause we're not listening.
That's why we're not learning.
That's why we're repeating thesame behaviors over and over
again.
And that one journaling practiceand that mantra right there, if
you just do it for 30 to 45 daysstraight without fail and just
commit to that process, Iguarantee you you'll have a
supernatural growth in yourleadership and your ability to
be present and even magnetic infront of other people because
(29:04):
you won't be seeking thevalidation.
You won't be seeking what theyhave, you won't be comparing
yourself to what you don't haveversus what they do have.
You will be anchored in who youare, who you were created to be.
And that's to me is again whatit means to become one part line
and one part lamb.
And that is step one and steptwo.
SPEAKER_02 (29:21):
Dude, so much wisdom there.
Um, seeking validation throughGod instead of the outside
world.
I think uh if you could justlatch onto that, write what
Steven wrote or asked thequestion on, and then just
listen, it would fix a lot ofwhat you you're not wanting to
see in the mirror.
Like so many, and I see it sooften uh through coaching and
(29:45):
just observe observationthroughout the world.
Like most people can't look atcan't stand what looks back at
them in the mirror.
And if you just did that onepractice of seeking validation
through God and not your socialmedia and not the outside world,
and not even your spouse, likeseeking validation through God,
uh, you're gonna fix a lot ofyour internal problems, if not
(30:06):
all of them.
SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
What made you perfect?
SPEAKER_02 (30:12):
You're unique.
I I I state this from stageoften is like, you know how
unique you are?
It's like your fingerprints wereformed, I think it's uh either
10 days or 10 weeks.
I got the 10 right, I just can'tremember in the womb.
And you are the only person onthis planet with those set of
fingerprints.
That's how the FBI can find us.
(30:33):
Only one.
And there's over eight billionpeople on this planet.
So you want to tell me you'renot uniquely created?
And so the point is to live intothat authentic self, that unique
uniqueness that God gave you andonly you and be wholly that and
not something else.
(30:56):
All right, so let's let's keepmoving.
So good.
Um a lot of high performers,successful on paper, but they're
not truly integrated.
And we've we've talked, I think,some about this already, but uh
let's talk about the cost.
What is what does fragmentationcost people when they're not
truly living aligned?
SPEAKER_01 (31:17):
Peace, fulfillment, and meaning.
A lot of the folks that I workwith nowadays, um, I'm either
trying to help them scale theircompanies without scaling
dysfunction, or uh I am helpingpeople that have become high
performers, um, have done reallywell financially.
Some cases, many of them haveexited.
Um, many of the ones that I'veworked with are eight, nine, and
(31:38):
even 10-figure earners.
Um what we try to do is we tryto bring meaning back because a
lot of people I serve withthey've made money but lost
meaning.
And I could talk from that placespecifically because actually,
just before you and I met, um Iwas going through what I think,
what I hope might be my last uhmajor transition period of time
and transformation.
(31:59):
But uh I was sitting, I had soldmy company about a year and a
half earlier, uh, maybe about ayear earlier.
I was sitting in a very nicehome at the top of a mountain in
Utah.
Um, because what I'd born andraised in Raleigh, but when I
sold my company, I went to Utahfor about a year and a half.
I'm back now in the Carolinas onat Lake Norman uh at Safe Haven.
But um I remember being in thathouse, 6,000 plus square feet,
(32:22):
you know, more than enough foryou know me, um having access to
resource, having access tofull-fledged travel, having
access to relation, you know,relationships that other people
would, you know, they would saythat they would die for, so to
speak, or they admired, um,having access to uh liquidity
and business deals and all kindsof stuff.
(32:44):
And I remember having thisepiphany in that moment that I
was just I was actually moreunhappy then than when I was
homeless.
And the reason I was unhappythen is because I had chased and
strived my entire life to go andget the stuff.
Get the accolades, get thehouse, get the cars, get the
(33:08):
toys, um, be successful, youknow, be successful on paper.
My entire identity was tied tobeing successful on paper.
And then you get everything thatyou think you ever wanted on
paper, only to find out that ithas no meaning.
There's nothing wrong withpursuing at with pursuing goals
(33:29):
and aspirations and want tobuild a company and all these
types of things and be and andum having aspirations and
becoming a highly highperforming leader.
Okay.
There's nothing wrong with that.
What I discovered was what's thequestion behind the question,
which is why do you feel likewhy do you need it?
SPEAKER_00 (33:48):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (33:49):
Is it to prove yourself or is it to be of
service?
And the major shift, and again,I gave you already some tidbits
as far as the mantra, thejournaling practice, um,
grounding, regulating, workingout routinely, being mindful of
your space, being mindful ofyour heart, being present with
your family.
Dude, one of the, I'll tell youwhat, one of those painful
moments was my oldest son cameto me after a divorce.
(34:10):
Um, and he said, Hey, as far asI'm concerned, you were an
amazing father and amazinghusband.
But if you could do one thing,just one thing better, if you
could just be more present whenyou're present, that would mean
the world to us.
And it, dude, it hit me like aton of bricks because it's
funny.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_02 (34:28):
I can only imagine.
SPEAKER_01 (34:30):
I I may look check this out.
I uh I had these memories popup, and I'm I'm and I'm I'm this
is gonna touch some of yourleaders' hearts because just
because I know the people thatyou steward, you always surround
yourself with great people.
Um, but I remember being presentin the room, being present at
the football practice, beingpresident, being present uh at
band-aids because one of my sonswas a you know was a drum major,
(34:53):
um, being present um duringprom, but I wasn't present.
I had my phone in my hand or mycomputer nearby, or I was like,
can I step out one second, walkover here and answer a text
message?
And honestly, most of it couldhave waited to the next day.
SPEAKER_02 (35:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (35:11):
But I told myself that the whole, my whole world
was gonna fall apart if I didn'trespond.
Right?
And here's the other thing.
I thought because I could givemy kids expensive trips, take
them to really cool places, getthem around really amazing
people, that I was winning.
They just wanted me to lock eyeswith them for over an hour.
That's all they wanted.
(35:32):
They legitimately didn't careabout the house they lived in.
I mean, they got to enjoy nicestuff, but they didn't care
about the house, the travel.
Like they didn't care.
Right?
And when I I feel like when Iget to heaven, God is gonna look
at me and say, How well did yousteward the family that I gave
you?
He's not gonna, he's notnecessarily gonna say, Well,
congratulations, you became anine-figure business owner.
Woo-hoo! He doesn't care aboutmoney.
(35:54):
You know what I'm saying?
He wants to see how you led, howyou stewarded, what you believed
in.
And so if you could understandthere's a greater calling behind
ongoing development and ongoingleadership, inevitably what
happens is you don't uh makemoney and lose meaning.
You happen to have meaning, andit's a byproduct, you make
money.
Yeah, right.
And as because of that, you canserve.
(36:15):
Like you, I don't know if youknew this, Josh, but you may or
may not, but there isapproximately um$7 billion of
annual need for foster caresystem, homelessness, education,
housing, clothing, um, prettymuch every major world challenge
(36:39):
can be answered annually forabout$7 billion, right?
So education then createsmentorship, mentorship then
creates momentum, et cetera,right?
There's$37 trillion in the handsof professing believers.
So it when I feel like when weget to heaven, God is gonna look
(36:59):
at us and say, I gave you animmaculate amount of resources.
And you chose us to spend it onthe extra house or on the extra
toy.
Or, you know what I'm saying?
I don't, I don't want, I don'twant him to be able to use that
as a tool to say I didn'tsteward it well.
I want to be a good steward.
(37:20):
So like I even have an internalprocess where it's like if I can
give away, if I can go buy a$200,000 car, I can also afford
to give, I can also afford togive away$200,000 that year.
So I have a 50-50 ratio.
But inevitably, if your meaningand identity are tied to
anything other than service andbeing of service and being a
good steward, you willinevitably feel empty,
(37:42):
misaligned.
And honestly, you you may loseyour family along the way.
You may lose people that youlove along the way.
I can't tell me people I'veworked with that they it was the
catalyst of losing all that theyreally cared about that finally
said, What the hell am I doing?
SPEAKER_02 (37:58):
Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_01 (37:59):
Right.
And that awareness changesthings.
SPEAKER_02 (38:01):
Yep.
Two of the two things are comingto mind is uh one is the only
thing you can bring to heavenwith you is your children.
Not any of your stuff, not anyof your businesses, none of your
wealth, none of it.
There's no never been a U-Haulfollowing a hearse.
And so uh we got to keep that inmind.
Secondly, was it's amazing howGod orchestrates timing and
(38:24):
conversations because just thismorning I was on a call with uh
a buddy out of Michigan, and acouple weeks ago he was at a MA
conference, Mergers andAcquisitions, uh, for those that
don't know that acronym uh andit was one of those closed
sessions.
He's in there with a bunch ofsuits and they're talking about
uh how they go about doingbusiness, mergers, acquisitions,
(38:46):
and then they put up a stat onthe screen, and he that's where
he said he wished he could havetaken the picture.
But uh said 90% of businessowners that exit within three
months have depression.
And you and I have been throughexits, I went through uh happy
exits and a sad exit.
Uh but even my father, who wentthrough a very uh uh very good
(39:09):
exit, uh, was depressed for twoyears because meaning and
purpose was stripped.
And that's exactly what you'retalking about, right?
So it's it's not your business,isn't your purpose.
And you gotta divine, you gottafigure out that divine meaning
of why you're doing for service.
And and also if you are abusiness owner that's listening
(39:29):
and going, hey, I'm on the kindof heels of trying to transition
my business, I want you to havea purpose and meaning lined up
before that exit happens.
And it could be, like you said,uh a Christian organization
that's uh feeding the homeless.
I don't care it could benonprofit, for free, whatever.
(39:51):
You determine what that meaningand purpose is for your level of
service in life and where you'reat, and you run towards that
because you will fall intodepression.
The stats already said 90%,that's an overwhelming majority.
You're not gonna enjoy being onthe golf course every day.
You're not my dad couldn't huntevery day of he would hunt every
day of his life, but that didn'tbring him meaning any, anyhow.
(40:12):
Or uh, so again, you've got tohave that meaning and purpose
before you transition becausethe day you sell, the next
morning you wake up and there'snothing there and no
responsibilities and nothinglike you go through a big mental
transition and hurdle to face,and it's a life-changing moment.
SPEAKER_01 (40:29):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
That's so good.
I would say that if you're aboutto set up for an exit, um I
would go to God in that in thatjournaling practice and say, you
know, and kind of be and beopen-minded to hearing, okay,
what's what am I called to next?
Uh I think when you like I wouldsay there's actually three three
major pillars of when you'rewhen you sell a company and you
(40:50):
exit.
Um, one, go take the vacationthat you probably never took
with your family and let it bean extended one.
Let it be a 30, 40-day vacationin Europe or Greece or you know,
wherever, wherever it is you'vealways wanted to go that you've
never done.
And be completely free, right?
No, no thoughts of the futureper se, write it right off the
(41:11):
bat.
Number two, come back with theheart of service, go find to
your point, go find a nonprofitthat you can just serve for a
little bit and kind of seewhat's what's there and what
what could be next.
And then three, then you canlook at your next investment.
Maybe you're maybe um I've I'vediscovered that the third pillar
for me is teaching what Ilearned as a byproduct for 25
years, right?
So there's there's a part ofconnection with my family.
(41:32):
There was a part of umcharitable contribution via
time, talent, and resource.
And then the third one obviouslywas um, you know, really kind of
figuring out, okay, what did Ilearn and how can I help
humanity with what I've learned?
Um, I find that those three legsgive us at least a frame of
reference to discover what itmeans to have meaning um when
(41:52):
you have everything on theplanet.
Like so, because you again,we're I think I feel like God
created us to be of service,right?
And I think that was one of thethings you mentioned earlier
when we're talking about uhthought leader.
Um, I would say I would even saythought leader friends that
maybe are still very much ontheir own journey as far as you
know being um being whole, beingthe same on stage as they are
elsewhere.
(42:13):
Um, you know, so I'm I'm notcritical because I've also been
on that same journey of the timethat I wanted to stage more than
I wanted to serve.
Right.
I'm very, I've been very publicabout that.
So I think those three arecomponents will give someone
who's looking to exit or wantsto exit um line of sight of what
they need to be thinking aboutand feeling into before they do
that.
Because you're right.
(42:35):
30, 45 days.
I don't even, I don't even thinkit took me 90 days.
Like I was literally, I woke upevery day at five o'clock to go
do X, Y, and Z when I was, youknow, working and building and
stuff.
It might have been 30 days.
And I was already like, likeI've already watched all the
movies I wanted to watch.
I've already gone all the time,you know, I started going to
places I like it, like there'sno such thing as a perpetual
(42:57):
vacation.
SPEAKER_02 (42:58):
Yeah, you know, well, like for you, uh you're
spot on number my last one was asad sale, sad exit.
But uh I wrote in my journal, Iput it in my book, like that
next Monday when so I I you knoweverything got ripped away on
the Wednesday prior.
That next Monday, I wake up andI'm used to being charged on
Monday.
A new week, a new day to getthings uh going, to move in the
(43:20):
direction we want to go.
Like, and I wake up and I gotnothing.
Yeah and I'm sitting there onwith my, you know, sitting on my
hands trying to figure out,well, what am I gonna do?
I don't have that purpose isremoved.
So it's uh it's a hard mentaltransition.
And I just want people to becognizant of that as they go on.
And um that's why retirement'sso hard on people too.
(43:41):
And it's funny I say thatbecause I literally in my career
in the financial world helppeople retire.
But uh now I'm sitting theregoing, I think we need to
question what retirement reallymeans.
SPEAKER_01 (43:54):
Yeah.
Yeah.
To me, retirement is nothingmore than being going to do what
you want when you want.
Right.
So It's not, and when I saythat, it's I don't mean from a
place of like you can have aperpetual vacation.
What I mean is like take theattributes of yourself that God
created within you, that He usesto amplify others around you,
(44:15):
and then use those techniques toteach other people how to be
amplified.
You know, I'm a big believer in,you know, it's funny.
Um I I feel like I said itfirst, then Rory copied me, then
Ed copied him.
Um, but I used to say from stageall the time that the greatest
purpose in life you'll ever haveis serving the person you used
to be.
Now, everybody, their brothersnow modified that in their own
(44:35):
vernacular, which is finebecause it's it's still a
principle and a life truth.
But I feel like the people, whenyou when you get to a place
where you can really truly giveback time, talent, and
resources, wisdom, right?
Essentially what you're doing isyou're helping the 19 version of
yourself, the 25-year-oldversion of yourself, a
30-year-old version of yourself,40, like you learn things at
(44:57):
certain milestones that decreasethe pain for others in their
present day to day, but only ifyou put your position, you put
yourself in a position to servethem uh with excellence.
You know, and I think that'swhere significance and meaning
can really come from becauseit's not coming from the
outside, it's actually comingfrom the inside as a gift to
others.
SPEAKER_02 (45:17):
Yeah, that's so good.
Well, man, we're wrapping up ontime.
As you guys can probably tell,brother Stephen and I could talk
for hours, but uh, we both gotstuff to get to.
Uh so I always ask this questionat the end.
It's um, and this could be onanything we've spoken of or just
whatever comes to your heart.
But what's an unpopular beliefyou hold to be true that most
others disagree with?
SPEAKER_01 (45:40):
Um, that you're you may have been victimized, but
you're not a victim.
I see a lot of us, um we we uhthe word I comes to mind is the
word label.
So I I have been divorced, butI'm not divorced.
Right?
Um I have been a Napoleon, butI'm not Napoleon.
(46:01):
Like you said, I'm saying like Iwe place label limiting labels
on ourselves because we feelshameful, guilty, or whatever
about ourselves that thenimpedes us from growing into the
person we are ultimatelydesigned to grow.
Um, the Bible says very clearlythat God wastes nothing.
Yes, he wastes nothing, right?
No adversity, no challenge, nosetback, no advancement, no you
(46:24):
know, praise, whole hallelujahmoments.
He uses everything, not just forthe moment of your good, but so
you can be good to other people.
And I feel like I've I've workedwith a lot of people and they've
had things happen to them umthat could be in the form of
being victimized, but thatdoesn't make them a victim.
And if they take on the identityof a victim, they'll never take
(46:46):
on the identity of a victor.
Because victims have to become avictor in order to actually have
momentum and progress forward.
So I think that's probably thebiggest one um that comes to
mind just in recent weeks.
SPEAKER_02 (46:58):
Well, no, it's so good because you and I are both
living proof of it, whether youcount your homelessness, my
business being ripped away fromme, and everything in between
for us, we've continued to moveforward.
And as long as you move throughthose challenges and understand
the meaning behind them, gotyou'll learn that God wastes
nothing.
And so that's so good.
(47:18):
So in wrapping up, where canpeople follow you, find you?
What's the best mediums?
SPEAKER_01 (47:23):
Yeah, so the good news is I'm pretty much
everywhere.
Uh S T A P S T E P H E and soStephen, pronounced Stephen by
that's right.
Scoggins, S T O G G I N S.
I think if I could leave yourlisteners and your viewers with
something important just forthem.
Um, we've been working reallyhard behind the scenes to create
(47:44):
uh uh assessment of sorts thathelps you understand really
where you are on the hierarchyof where the constraints are
versus where where you can moveto.
Um, because I mentioned becomingone part lion and one part lamb.
Um if your leaders want to gotake that assessment for
themselves, we don't sell athing at the end of it, by the
way.
There's nothing to be, there'snothing to purchase.
Um it's you can go tostepenscoggins.com slash leader
(48:06):
and take it.
I will tell you that theassessment takes about 10
minutes.
So it's not like super quick.
And I want you to be thoughtfulwith your responses, but it'll
give you a lot of clarity onwhere you are, where you could
go, and maybe some steps toactually get you there along the
way.
So I would encourage them to dothat more than anything else.
Um, everything that we do isbuilt around serving the leader
because I believe if I canchange the leader, that leader
(48:27):
can change 10 leaders.
And by as a byproduct, uh, wecan make a kingdom impact
together.
SPEAKER_02 (48:32):
Love it.
So everyone, go take thatassessment.
Follow Steven as you saw andheard today.
So much wisdom that he'sdropping, so much service that
he's given back to the world.
Uh, thank you so much, myfriend, for coming on Spartan
Leadership.
Always, brother.
I love you, man.
I love everything you're doing.
Love you too.
So, Spartans, you know what todo.
Share this episode far and wide.
Remember, the good and great arethe enemies of possible.
(48:53):
Lead like a Spartan today.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com