January 7, 2025 • 51 mins
Kyle Youmans, Patrik Walker, Tommy Yarrish & Josh Rodriguez recap the Cowboys final game of the 2024 season, speak on Trey Lance’s performance and outlook for next season, and determine priorities going into the offseason.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
The following.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
He is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and
the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
This He's Talking Cowboys, springing live.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
From the Dallas Cowboys World headquarters.
Speaker 5 (00:21):
At the Star in Frisco.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Touchdown six second plus dot.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Kitsis any continent touchdown and.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Now your hosts Isaiah Standback, Patrick Walker, Josh Rodriguez, and
Kyle Yeomans.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
It's an off season edition of Talking Cowboys, presented by
Black Rifle Coffee Company, live from the Star in Frisco,
Texas in the SWBC studios. Welcome in, everybody, as we
are ready to attack this twenty twenty five off season
with a head, a heavy heart, and with a little
extra I don't even know, maybe a little extra juice,
(01:01):
because it's gonna be an interesting off season to say
the least. We've got Patrick Noci Walker, Josh Rodriguez, Tommy
Yarrish with Chris Bean in the back. I'm Kyle Yeomans.
It's gonna be yeah, buckle up, here we go. That's
buckle up, buttercup. Yeah, I mean, this is gonna be
a an off season that is not for the faint
of heart. Cowboys have relatively zero cap room and don't
(01:24):
seem super happy about their options of finagling that cap room.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
And oh and by the way, they've got to make.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
A decision on their head coach moving forward.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
So lots to talk about. Yeah, a little bit on
the docket there.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
But yeah, how's everybody doing.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Everybody great? Great?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Had some little chili coming in.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, oh yeah, that hawk has arrived, dude low bringing
is bringing carry on luggage. This this is coming weekend.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
What man, that one's on, Tommy.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Is it is crispy as a Northerner, it is very cold.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, you're from Chicago, Yeah, one of the bears.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
We'll talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Twenty one degrees is twenty one degrees no matter where
you are. The other thing I would say, is that
different for in Chicago because win But we talked about
a few days ago that wind that us shoot this run.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
In that was very like yeah, yeah, and the snow
that's about to hit two is very We're expected to
get seven inches of I've seen.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
Very I've seen one to four seven.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I saw graphic of eight to twelve.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I'm like, yeah, that was over like a couple of days. Yeah,
that that graphic up at the top. It's like over
three or four days.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
But still either believe the one I see it is
how I'm kind of seeing it because because there, because
you're from Chicago. No no, no, no, no no, no,
no no no. I'm not trying to not trying to
upset mother nature. I'm just saying there have been many
a time in this lone star state where you know,
the weizer experts say hey, it's gonna snow x y
(03:04):
z amount and then you get flurries and that's it.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Regardless.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Everybody stay safe when you're driving, you're careful of good
and please don't get hurt.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Meteorologist Tommy Ash talking.
Speaker 6 (03:14):
To you, have a meteorol see you doing it.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
We gotta get you to screen.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
We gotta get you to stop wearing button ups.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
To talking cowboys.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
That's the next step that direction.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Everybody looks very yeah, okay, well this very cowboys.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
We need.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
We got to get fast and loose in there. You
got your butt up. Don't listen to that thank you
say with your chest.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
When when you're here with it.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Man, you got one guy on one side of the
table wearing a button up and the other guy on
the other side of the table wearing a night Here
on the Element T shirt.
Speaker 6 (03:47):
If anything, just undo one of them, you know what
I mean, give us a little more neck you know,
I'm saying.
Speaker 7 (03:55):
Ye.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Got an undershirt.
Speaker 6 (03:58):
He's got the chain on them. Kids watching, I'm just saying, dude,
we're talking about cool.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Just think what does the chain have a number on it?
Speaker 5 (04:05):
It does, it's a numbers. It's twenty eight for my
girlfriend's softphone. Let's go.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
That's a supporting boyfriend right now.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I love bit.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
We're going to talk about that after the show.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
All right.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Cowboys fall in their final game of the regular season.
Nineteen vote for Darren Woodson, please do so.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Twenty eight.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yep, that's why you wear the necklace. You're trying to
get exact into canton uh reaction from Washington h Cowboys
fall twenty three to nineteen in the final seconds of
the twenty twenty four season. It was a bummer way
to end it. I don't think there's a whole lot
of people that were upset about it. At the end
(04:45):
of the day, it was a game going into it.
We all talked about it. It was a chance to evaluate,
got to see Trey Lance quite a bit, got to
see Jonathan Mingo, got to see Deuce Fawn. Finally you
got to see all these guys play a little extra
snaps up front, and I thought you still got what
you needed to out of that game. You had a
chance to win it against a playoff team that played
(05:07):
their starters for the first half, made some switches in
the second half, and honestly, you played really well against
their starters in the first half with your reserves and
your depth, so lots to come out of that. Your
thoughts after the.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Loss, well, first and foremost, I think that Mike Zimmer
might be kryptonite to Jaydeon Daniels. I mean, outside of
the the Terry McLaurin pass late in the first matchup,
he's more or less shut down Jaydon Daniels. It took
Marcus Mariota to enter in the game for the Commanders
that have any kind of juice offensively.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
To tell he was trying to yeah, oh yeah, yeah,
he had a vendetta.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Absolutely, it was trying to make something happen so interesting there.
That was a big takeaway for me, is like, you know,
as much as some other defensive coordinators have been trying
to figure out Jaydon Daniels. Mike Zimmers had his number
from day one, so intriguing, and I wouldn't you know,
mind putting that in the category of pros versus cons
As far as if you're going to bring zimber bag,
he clearly has the number of the franchise quarterback of
(06:06):
a rival you're going to play multiple times a year
for the next several years, so keep that in mind.
But I'm going to circle to Trey Lance. Finally we
get not only Trey Lance as a starter, we get
a full game to evaluate Trey Lance. I've been standing
here pleading for months now to see it. What never said?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
I know, man burn all.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
The receipts, I saw good and I saw bad from
Trey Lance, which was expected. I didn't expect that he
would go out there and light up the school board
to the tune of forty one points.
Speaker 6 (06:37):
Josh, Hey, you know, but I would have liked if
those were touchdowns instead of field goals. Been a little
closer for Yeah, a little.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Baby puts it in when you have gold to go
on more than just one occasion out of the several.
Speaker 6 (06:50):
Chances you got into the red zone quite a few times.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Did he used his legs, which we knew was going
to happen. He looked great doing so. Some of his
throws were more crisp than I than I expect. He
had some good accuracy in that first half, that's a zip.
He had some good accuracy, some anticipation some of those throws.
But in the second half, when he was tasked with
applying touch to those passes, it reared its head again,
(07:12):
which is that's what he's been struggling with. And I've
been saying that since training camp. We've talked about it
since training camp when it comes to those those fades,
which is why I couldn't understand why the Cowboys kept
calling the fades the and then I.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Mean, I know it was just a mistake, but the
one di Rico daddle and.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
I felt so bad.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
Yeah, but you know what helps, Yeah, it's true, man, yea,
let me.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
So come on, t I mean, was it perfect. Absolutely not.
We didn't expect that it would be, but he did
show me. I could honestly sit here and say he
showed me enough to in Fred since the two way Street,
so he would have to want to come back. But
from a front office standpoint, based on that game, I
would be willing to welcome him back at a reasonable
price for that QB two battle for twenty QB two.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
That that second point is very important.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Reasonable price, reasonable price, Yeah, of course, very very true.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I think I'm there too. The timing was one of
the things, Josh. I'm sure you'll allude to this too,
but the timing was off a bit in some of
the throws. He whenever it comes to the cannon that
he has, doesn't matter, it's still going to happen. Like
he's still got arm velocity, he's got the accuracy at times.
It's anytime you've got a finesse. He doesn't have that
(08:33):
element to his game, and the timing is a part
of that.
Speaker 6 (08:36):
But I will say Jonathan Mingo had his best game
as a cowboy.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
What do you know? What do you know?
Speaker 5 (08:40):
What happens when you get a good pass?
Speaker 6 (08:43):
More than one exactly?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
And I've interpret some things.
Speaker 6 (08:45):
To me, it felt like Trey Lance had more juice,
I mean overall than what Kooper Rush was bringing you. Granted,
you're getting more of a conservative I don't want to
say bus driver flippantly, but that's kind of what you
get from a Cooper Rush, right, And we talked about
it several times where you're not seeing the zip on
Cooper Rush's throws, whereas for Trey Lance, you were seeing
(09:07):
him throw the ball down the field. You were getting
multiple opportunities for guys like Cavante Turpin, multiple opportunities for
guys like Jonathan Mingo. There was juice there, and I
would have killed to have seen that develop over several
games versus one single game. However, if you're Trey Lance,
do you in the now where we're talking free agency? Right,
(09:33):
if you are Trey Lance, do you not feel like
you might have a better shot staying here at QB
two then restarting with a brand new coaching staff. I mean, well,
I don't know, starting over, I know, right, and maybe
a new coaching staff to begin with anyways, So I
don't know. I just feel like.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Build on this man to answer your question, and I'll
throw it to tell me. If I'm Trey Lance, I'm
going really for a couple of reasons. One, if I
were literally Trey Lance, I'm looking at it as you
finally gave me the start in week eighteen. However, why
not give me the opportunity when we were mathematically eliminated
from the playoffs, even if it was not a little
(10:17):
bit more than a package here there, but zero reps
is crazy. But also when you consider the fact that
in speaking with Trey Lance after the game and going
into this offseason, though when I asked him, he did
say he is still not focused on free agency, so
as recently as right after the game, he was like,
I'm still right where I am. I need to do
some reflection on the season. But he also said he's
(10:39):
looking forward to an opportunity. That stuck with me because
the question then becomes the opportunity to be what is
an opportunity to remain a QB two and maybe be
someone's QB three if they don't feel like they want
to compete with the QB two. If it's for a chance,
even a remote chance to be QB one, that's not
happening here. So if I'm Trey Lance, and that opportunity
(11:02):
that I'm looking for is at least a I don't
want to say fair, but at least an open opportunity
to battle for QB one somewhere, that's I'm going really quickly.
Speaker 6 (11:13):
If you are another two, I mean, I granted, maybe
we're too close to the cowboy situation of it all.
But I don't think he has a QB one.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I'm not saying, hey, I'm not saying he has a And.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
I don't think anybody takes a mill again on like
the one game that he gave you to say, oh well,
let's give him a shot at QB one. I think
his best scores of action would be to stay. But
then again, I am very biased.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
But I see what you're saying. So let me clarify.
I mean contextually speaking, so from a Trey Lance standpoint,
if he's talking about an opportunity to compete for QB one,
not necessarily right off the bat, because he's not going
to have this influx of NFL teams that are beating
down his doing free agency. Let's be clear on that.
But if it's a way two or three, and it may,
and if it is those two or three, you look
(11:55):
at those two or three, and you look at the
starting QB situation and you say, is that a Dak Prescott?
Is that a Patrick Mahomes? Is that a tool? If
the answer is no, no, no, is that a CJ. Stroud.
If the answer is no, no, no, no no, then
you have a chance. You go in knowing that you're
likely QB two in those two or three situations, but
you have your eye open to say I can probably
(12:16):
beat out QB one.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
But are you looking at Dak Prescott in terms of
health saying like, hey, man.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Oh, I mean that's a different that's a conversation, a
different conversation. I mean, the contract for Dak has him here,
of course, ever, but you could look elsewhere and say, okay,
is that an aging quarterback too? Of course, guys that
are out what I mean, bad example, because he's an
unrestricted free agent. But let's say Aaron Rodgers returns to
New York. That's example, and then he returns to New York,
(12:43):
and then there's a second opportunity at the quarterback spot there.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Maybe Trey Lance is out there.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
You've got next up, guarantee. I don't know if Trey
Lance has earned that opportunity yet. From an NFL wide standpoint,
I'm curious to see what you think.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
I don't think so, and I don't think he put
enough on tape on Sunday to warrant that either. I
think you guys make good points. When I look at
Trey Lance. This is a guy who has not played
a lot of football in his career. When you think
back to his days in college and in the NFL. Now,
this is a guy who, simply put is very raw,
and that's why Dallas took him because they wanted to
see what could happen when they baked him a little
(13:18):
bit and see what the product was. I don't think
it was an awful product on Sunday, and I don't
think that he's just been sitting there all this entire time.
I think there has been some development during his time here.
But when you look at that game on Sunday, like
Patrick said, there was good, there was bad. Easy passes
like the end zone that he underthrows, you've got to
make those. You just have to make those. I thought
(13:39):
there were some instances where he had running room in
front of him. I mean, all we've talked about with
adding Trey Lance to the folded quarterback has been using
his legs.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
As psych he took him the second half.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
He's got six carries for twenty six yards. I think
he could have easily had fifty to fifty five sixty
yards in this game if he tucks a couple more
and takes off.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, and so that QB two opportunity.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
I don't know if it's here, because I think Cooper
Rush gives you the better opportunity to win as a
backup quarterback because he's already done it for you. It's
not fun football all the time because it's more of
just to manage the game, push the ball downfield, stick
to the script type deal. But if it's winning you
football games, that's what he's done and until he proves
you otherwise, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Why Philadelphia, and also really.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
Quick unless it's Philadelphia, since.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
That Cooper Rush point. Cooper Rush has already felt what
it's like to be on a different team, and I
don't think he wants to go through that again.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
That didn't happen very well, right.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
He's extremely comfortable here, even if there's a change of
head quotes. The quarterback is still Dak Prescott and they
have a great relationship, and Cooper Rush is going to
likely accept the veteran minimum to remain here. So that
sounds delicious for a front office that's pushing the cap
issue as something to content with.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
It's also a front office that's trying to prove that
the fourth round pick that they sent to San Francisco
was worth it at the same time.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So there's there's elements to really trying to prove that
he would have start.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Started a long time ago. I agree, trust me.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
I will say I think there are a lot of
situations where Trey Lance can really excel. Sure, I just
don't know if it's here.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
And that's where I am with it. Yeah, so the
I'm Trey Lance, that's how I feel. I don't know
if this is the fit for me right.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
A couple of things that add there. I think based
off of what we saw on Sunday, Trey Lance is
an NFL quarterback right, Yes, playing and simple, he is
an NFL quarterback, just not a store not a starter.
That's kind of and where where we are there's still
that possibility because there were flashes of it. And there's
always the athleticism side of things too that I think
(15:37):
you have to keep in mind. You bring up a
great point, the timidness to run. I wish Isaiah was
here for this, because Isaiah was a dual threat quarterback
in his own right, and he was talking about it
on Sunday when we were watching the game. He was saying,
I think they have told him they want to see
him as a passer. He's like, because when you're a
running quarterback and you're told all your life going up
(15:58):
into the NFL, run when you need to run, when
you need to run, when you need to Then you
get to the NFL and you face guys that are
much more athletic than what you've seen in the past,
and they say, we need you to stop running. Your
instincts go away. Yeah, there were a couple of times.
You go back on film, there was the sact that
he took where he's statued statued up, but then you
could see there was a moment, there's a moment in
(16:20):
his head where the instincts kicked in. He took a step,
but then he sat down and he sat in it.
So there are times in that game and you can
go back and watch it. Go find the film where
he takes a step and that instinct is there. You
could see it. Run run, run, run and run. But
he pulls back and then because his voice is correct,
because he's being told, we want to see what you
can do as a pocket passer in the NFL against defenses,
(16:44):
against pass rush, how do you avoid it? Did a
great job on the play. The Rico Dattle to avoid
the pass rush. He was swarmed behind the line of scrimmage,
had a brilliant move that was Trey Lancel was like,
this is the play, and then it just fluttered to
the ground and it was unfortunate. So that's the microcosm.
If you could take the entirety of Trey Lance's NFL career,
(17:04):
both in San Francisco and in Dallas right now, put
it into one play, it would be that Rico Doubtle play, athleticism, talent, vision,
all sorts of society. But then it just still doesn't
click and it still doesn't happen. So I'm interested. He's
one of the more intriguing storylines going into the off
(17:25):
season and an off season full of storylines. But it's
interesting because he could be one of those guys. I mean,
we're looking at across the NFC playoff put picture right now,
how many of those guys that are currently quarterbacks in
a playoff picture right now are thrown away by their
not original teams, but other teams along the way. You've
got Jared Goff as the number one seed. You've got
(17:46):
Sam Darnold as a possible MVP. Conversation you've got Baker Mayfield,
who was on the Carolina Panthers backing up Andy Dalton
like a year and a half ago. Like, there's all
of these things that are playing a factor. I don't
know if I'm ready to give up on Trey Lance
just yet. And he shouldn't be as a team.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
He's shown he's worth further development. Yes, as a player.
If I'm Trey Lance, I just got to feel like
there's a potentially better fit some world and.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Maybe a better price too.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
If they're telling him not to run at all costs,
I think that you're cutting him off the knees. You're
selling that is just that second.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I almost jumped out of the press box window, like
I was just like, you gotta be kidding me. He
had the green there, and if he takes that, he's
probably in the one yard line and his fourth and short.
Now we've seen how that happened. But nonetheless, maybe you scored,
whatever the case, don't stat up in that situation. And
that's a good point. Go back and look at the film.
He stuttered and then stood back up.
Speaker 6 (18:41):
And you're taking away one of the reasons you have
him on the team. One of the reasons he exists
as a player.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
The reason he was the second most impressive quarterback in
that game was because look at what Marcus Mariota did
with his life. Came out right playing in Marcus Mariota.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Did a good thing.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Arrows, He made some great throws.
Speaker 6 (18:59):
Don't get me wrong, he was definitely playing.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Yeah. Play of his game was the fourth and one
that he took off.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
The yeah, that's what you can do with Trey Lance
is basically so Mariota versus Tree Lance. It was the
battle of free agency backups. That's basically because they were
both battling to try to make themselves valuable.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
And Marcus mariotas Marcus, Yes you did, Marcus. Marcus Mariota
is a QB two with with starter upside, whereas Trey
Lance is a QB two with developmental upside. That's part
of what perfect I looked at it out of this.
All right, let's take our first break when we come back.
Trey Lance is not the only decision that the Cowboys
are going to have to make over the next few
(19:38):
weeks and door months. We've got one coming up that's
got a deadline of January fourteenth, and somebody's already knocking
on the door to talk to Mike McCarthy when we
come back. What does the coaching situation look like with
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Speaker 5 (22:00):
Talking Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
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did they yeah? Early morning hours the day after the
Cowboys were eliminated from the twenty twenty four campaign, the
(22:51):
Chicago Bears reported to have asked for permission to talk
to Mike McCarthy. They said, we're not going to wait
until this January fourteenth deadline. We would like to throw
out a possible request to talk to your head coach.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Now, yeah, make a decision.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
Is what January sixth and they're deciding to invade our building?
Speaker 5 (23:11):
I don't know, n goes the star Baby. Is that
the first time that's happened.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
There's not any other time that that could but the Yeah,
that's exactly what they did. They sent an insurrection of sorts.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
If you will.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Trying to talk to our head guy for sure.
Speaker 6 (23:33):
Uh, I don't even know where.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
To go for me.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
It'll be interesting to see if the Cowboys use this, uh,
this window of exclusivity to try to hammer out a deal.
If they decided they're going.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
To keep away, they accept it, right.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
No, I wouldn't say so, because if you're even considering
keeping him around, you you use this window in your
your favor. You don't just let someone invade and give
him for me? No, no, no, you wait until Jamiary fourteen.
Let us have our conversation. I know you do, because
he a decision made.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Like yes, yesterday or last week or already.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
And I'm with you, and he's on record saying that
would have happened last week.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
But I would say, and we've said this on this
on this panel before, when I was naming some teams
that when I said free agency is a two way street,
not just for players but for coaches alike. Okay, So,
for as much as the Cowboys need to decide on
miche McCarthy, Mike McCarthy needs to decide on the Cowboys.
This is not a Jason Garrett situation. This is not
Jason Garrett situation where there was no interest from it.
(24:31):
Any other other third said that as far as the
head coaching position is concerned, this is different. Mike McCarthy
has actual value. He's coming. He re established a culture
with the Cowboys. Playoff clature didn't get reestablished fair enough,
I agree, But three twelve and five seasons becomes one
of the winningest coaches in Cowboys franchise history. He has
the Super Bowl ring shining on his finger. He's shown
(24:53):
that he can hit the reset button for your franchise,
whatever your franchise might be. That's going to be very
intriguing for teams like Jacksonville, New Orleans and the Chicago Bears.
And it just makes sense for me. The New Orleans Saints.
He has history there, He's a former oc there. Okay,
I don't know that he would deal with what's going
on in Jacksonville because Trent balk is still out there
and that's just a toxic situation. But the Bears intrigued me,
(25:15):
and that's why that was the lead horse for a
team that would come after McCarthy in my eyes that
I said a few weeks ago. Number one, it puts
him a geographically closer to home. His family is still
in green Bay still, right. Point Number two is that
we all know how his time in Green Bay ended.
This would give him an opportunity to play against the
Bears twice a year for the next several years. Right
(25:39):
and then I had a court a thought. I think
I said it to you, Temmy, I said it to
someone if in fact the Mikes are a package deal,
Mike McCarthy and Mike Zimmer To that same point, Mike
Zimmer would be going back to the NFC North and
he would get to exercise a vendetta against the Minnesota
Vikings for multiple times a year for the next years.
So it's a very intriguing standpoint. I want to get
(26:01):
the take of the Chicago native. What what what's the
temperature of your home city as far as possibly bringing
McCarthy in.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
Well, it's cold. Here's the thing when I look at this,
a couple things. First of all, the Bears have requested
twelve head coaching yes, right now. Yeah, this is a
wide net.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I've got a list. If you want me to listen,
they're turning over everyone.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Actually, I would love for you to listen.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Okay. So these are the other interviews that the Bears
have requested. Brian Flores Vikings defensive coordinator, Aaron Glenn Lions
defensive coordinator that has been accepted, Ben Johnson, offensive coordinator
for the Lions, Mike Kafka, Giants OC Mike McCarthy, Cowboys
head coach Todd Monkin, Raven's offensive coordinator Drew Petsig, Cardinals
(26:45):
OC David Shaw, former Stanford head coach and current Broncos
executive Arthur Smith, Steelers offensive coordinator Anthony Weaver, Dolphins defensive
coordinator Mike Vrabel, former Titans head coach.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
That one has also been scheduled. Yeah, so I think
Ben Johnson's probably the leader in the clubhouse there. When
when I look at this situation, I understand why the
Cowboys right now aren't letting, aren't accepting that because he's
you know, he's still under that period until the fourteenth.
I think they'd be doing Mike McCarthy a massive disservice
(27:16):
if they were to go through this next seven days
and not have any intention of bringing him back. I'm
not saying that's what's happening. I'm just saying that's something
to keep an eye on. So the fact that nothing
has agree more time, the fact that nothing has been accepted,
tells me at least that there's interest in retaining Mike
McCarthy's head coach. So the other part of this is
(27:38):
when you look at the fit in Chicago, my thing is,
are the Bears going to be willing to bring somebody
who frankly owned them for a majority of a decade
plus to try and turn this frand to try to
turn the franchise around. I think Mike McCarthy would be
a good fit in Chicago because he's he's got a
track record of developing quarterbacks. Kali Williams call a guy
(28:00):
and right, he's gotten comparisons to Aaron Rodgers. He's said
he's idolized Aaron Rodgers and how he tries to play
the game. So that's there, But I'm not so sure
that Mike McCarthy is very high on the list of
candidates for them at this point in time, because when
you think about the Bears in the past too, they've
always been a defense heavy franchise. That's been their bread
(28:22):
and butter. They want to play good defense and they
want to run the football.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
How does that work for them since it hasn't worked
well at all?
Speaker 5 (28:29):
You know, Like I said, I think Ben Johnson's the
leader in the clubhouse, but they're also just casting a
wide net. So it doesn't shock me at all that
McCarthy's on that list. And I'm sure there will be
other teams that throw their hat in the Mike McCarthy circle,
But at least from right now, with nothing at all
being said about we've granted Mike McCarthy the permission to
(28:51):
do this interview. That tells me that there's interest in
bringing him back.
Speaker 6 (28:54):
It just sounds like they're turning over every rock, which
is what they should do when you're in that position
of need, when you're in position of trying to rebrand
the identity of your team. Possibly, I think that's a
great way to go about it. But you said, uh,
you know, Mike McCarthy basically owned Chicago Bears for a
good time whenever he was with the Packers. The Cowboys
were in a similar situation too.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I mean, he won a.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
Super Bowl here h and Aaron Rodgers and the Packers
did a lot of the unkind things to the Dallas
Cowboys with Mike McCarthy as coach. So we were sort
of in a situation where we're like, Okay, if you
can't beat them, get them, Yeah, yeah, bring them on,
bring them on. But then again, you have to consider
Mike McCarthy's record against the Packers since leaving the Packers
(29:40):
has not been great. Man, He's not performed very well,
especially a certain wild card game from last season.
Speaker 5 (29:47):
I want to talk about this, stop it and you
can make an argument that the NFC and NORSE is
the toughest division.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yes right now, now, yes see, But that's you got
to keep that in mind too. In a different way, thing,
Ebb and flow in the NFL all the time right now,
right this second, the Vikings, the Lions and the Packers
are just all juggernauts, and they're beating up on each other,
and they're beating up on the Bears and they're beating
up on all the other teams in the NFC. But
(30:16):
within four to five years, when you've got a fully
developed Caleb Williams, you've got a fresh roster of young
talent and guys that you can go get. They have
some salary crap cap room to keep that in mind,
Cowboys salary, that's what it is in Dallas right now.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
But that's.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
So the fact that Mike has already been told by
the front office the same way Steven Jones has told
everybody else, we don't have money to spend this offseason,
which is true. They are strapped in terms of the
salary cap. When you get to the salary cap in Chicago,
it's not nearly as bad. It's not perfect either, it's
about halfway, but you've got some room to move. You've
got a young quarterback and at some point you will
(31:00):
be that juggernaut.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
But you know they don't have in Chicago. You don't
have a an established all pro quarterback which some years
left not yet but not yet that he's built to
Kyle Yoman's always say it hasn't happened.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
It hasn't happened, but he's built two of them. You
got to give him credit. He built dac first got
into an All Pro fair and he helped build h Aaron.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Oh, I mean they have it.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Who's there, Michael Parsons, Eric Keenan Allen, who's the on
over show?
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I mean they have they have a couple of pieces.
So now, and what we're doing is, yeah, so we're
doing it from a POV from McCarthy right now, folks,
is what we're saying right now. So if you're McCarthy, yeah,
these are some things that you're waning. And I'm not
saying that he would wave off Chicago because they don't
have as many of the cornerstone pieces as the Cowboys have.
(31:51):
But it is a rightful conversation for a guy who
has so many years in the league, and you have
to start wondering at this point, this is fair wonder
how many more years McCarthy wants to coach in the league.
Right So maybe he feels like he and this is
just speculative, maybe he feels like he doesn't want to
do a hard reset with a particular team or any
(32:12):
particular team. So these are all things that McCarthy is
going to mole in his head, is what I'm.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Saying, and he goes back to what Tommy said, that's
this is all speculative.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
If he's even the choice in Chicago, Ben Johnson and
Aaron Glenn, that's one A and one B on anyone's
list who's looking for him for sure, and then the
rest includes McCarthy is like in the group of the conversation,
Tier B, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
I think Mike still got a lot left in the tank,
and I think he takes pride in being a builder.
He talked about that postgame after Washington. He really enjoys
building a program from the ground up. You could argue
he did that in Green Bay. Obviously, they're one of
the historic franchises in the NFL. The Bears are too.
The issue with the Bears is they've whiffed on their
head coaching hires, they've whiffed on their general manager hires,
(33:01):
and it's just kind of been a mess. There's never
been alignment, I don't think in Chicago, and some of
the draft choices that they've made, like this past year,
taking you know, Rama Donze instead of maybe there's an
offensive a lignement on the board who could have helped
you out there. They have the worst offensive line in
the NFL this year, maybe one of the worst offensive
lines time. I mean, it was just terrible to watch
the Caleb Williams was one of, if not the most
(33:22):
sacked quarterbacks in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
He was the most.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
I think it was a record to Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I think was was he.
Speaker 6 (33:29):
I think he was the most sack.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
Of the Regardless regardless of the case, they've got to
draft better, there's got to be alignment. It doesn't they
just have to hit this head coaching higher or else.
It's just going to be the same sort of cycle
that they've gotten themselves into, where you know, you've got
your quarterback who is dealing with a new head coach
every two years. He's dealing with a new GM every year,
and that's just, you know, not sustainable for an NFL.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Williams was sacked sixteen more times than any other quarterback
this year. So you're thinking all time, all time.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yes, now we're plv in from Chicago. If I'm Chicago,
I'd love how they're handling it. As far as due
diligence cast a wide knit, that's just the wise thing
to do. But the possibility of having a chance to
cripple the Detroit Lions by pulling away either Aaron Glenn
or Ben Johnson. Blank you blank checked that. Yeah, you
(34:21):
just slapped Ben Johnson.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
A blank checking Johnson should get over and you know
they've got the personnel I think in Detroit and Johnson done,
what has he done?
Speaker 1 (34:31):
What is he doing?
Speaker 5 (34:32):
Scoring forty?
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah? I think Ben Jonson, he plays that look really impactful.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
I think, well, I think part of the reason for
Ben Johnson's success too is the personnel that he's got.
But that is credit to to him. The way Detroit
has built their roster through the draft and through free agency.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
He turned him on the Saint Brown, a fourth round
pick into one of the top five or six receivers
in the NFL.
Speaker 5 (34:53):
But that's what happens when you've got alignment from the
top down. And so that's what you need for really
for any NFL franchise, you're owner, general manager, and head
coaching to all be on the same page and I'll
be moving forward together when it comes to personnel, coaching,
hires and things of that.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
And I could hear so many killboys fans right now.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Allow me to megaphone what fans think you're saying that,
do you feel that's the situation here in Dallas right now?
Right now they're in alignment.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
If they bring Michae McCarthy back, that shows me that
there is alignment. Yes, that there is alment sense of
I believe in what you're doing. I believe in what
your scheme looks like. I believe in what your personnel
decisions look like. That that would be my proof of
there's a line, because you'd be going on to year
with six or year year six of the same program,
(35:45):
the same way of doing things, and for a majority
of the same personnel.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
I think for the most part they have been in alignment,
which is why they were twelve and five, twelve and
five twelve five exactly align. I think what this season
did was expose the the part that was misaligned, which
is personnel decessions right depth. Jerry Jones himself, who does
a lot of spaghetti talking right, was very definitive when
(36:12):
asked after the game after the finale if he regrets
the personnel decisions not giving Mike McCarthy the roster that
he feels Mike because should have had. He said yes,
he said that's fair. So when you hear the owner
and general manager admitting that the personnel decisions could have
been better. Maybe they could have attacked free agency a
little bit better, Maybe they could have done this, could
have done that. I think that's the misalignment. So when
(36:33):
I pose the question for the fans of is it
like Detroit or can it be like Detroit where there's
this straight line going down with no wiggle room Right now,
there's too much wiggle room in that one capacity. I think,
what's the word I'm looking for? I think culturally, I
think strategically, I think they're all on the same page,
and they're on the same direction and they're moving in lockstep.
(36:55):
But there's that disconnect with personnel as far as who
Mike McCarthy would want to see added to the team
versus who is not added to the team, and then
who's added to the team instead of who Mike McCarthy
might want added to the team.
Speaker 6 (37:06):
And if they aren't aligned, they will be much aligned.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
But you can how long did you sit on that?
Speaker 5 (37:13):
You're sitting on it for a while. To wrap up
that point, you can fix that this offseason, Yes you can,
you definitely.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Can, But that's that's that's a promisory note. Yeah, well,
because that's what you would be signing for Mike McCarthy.
So if McCarthy decides if you want him back, and
he decides to come back, he's basically asking you to
sign a promisory note saying, when free agency and the
draft arrive, this is what this is what I want.
Give me what I want, Bautista, give me what I want.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
So that's that's when he gets what he wants.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
And maybe and even though the five seasons, maybe if
he got I there's come on, I come on, I
want to show this week.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
I want Will McClay to get what he wants. In
terms of the draft person the draft, I could care
less what Mike McCarthy wants from a player personnel standpoint,
as long as he's able to coach him and get
him ready to go. There's been too much I think
over the last two years coach intervention in the draft process.
But don't talk about that on the draft shows. At
(38:19):
some point down the line, like balance wise, totally fine. Yeah,
there's Draft eleven. I want if if you're bringing Will
McClay back, and you're bringing him back for the long
haul and Mike McCarthy's back, that's fine. I've already been
on record to say it would be a mistake to
get rid of Mike McCarthy. I stand by that right now.
I don't think he should have the same say that
(38:40):
he's had the last couple of years in terms of
the draft process. Fair enough, that's where I record.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
So I think I get.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Speaking balance because here's what balance. I get what balance
gets you a safety position being revamped because of a
guy like Dan Quinn. Sure, dan Quinn came in. Before
dan Quinn, Cowboys couldn't get it at safety. Dan Quinn
comes in, he gets them to reevaluate the imports of
the safety position. That's what being in alignment compromise looks like.
When you don't compromise and it's just only giving the
(39:09):
scouts what they want and the coaches can't gel with
that personnel, you have a problem. And vice versa. Can
give the coaches everything they want, but the scouts aren't
really lought in.
Speaker 6 (39:19):
But then you'll see a lot of what Mike McCarthy's
done where it's like I don't know what to do
with this guy.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Yes, inactive Trey Lance, see, but I mean ceedee lamb
was that was a scout pick that Ceedee Lamb was
a Scout pick. Michael Parsons was a Scout pick. Marvin
Overshown was a win and a scout let them pick.
There have been some other picks that haven't happened. Mike
McCarthy wanted to run twelve personnel. That's why you have
(39:43):
Luke Schoomaker in the second round, plain and simple. They
wanted some of those other guys that are above them.
You have Luke Schoomaker because Mike McCarthy wanted Luke Schoomaker.
At that point, you've got all these other picks along
the way. Trey Smith scout pick that was not a
Mike McCarthy pick. That was a scout pick.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Fair enough.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
There's a lot of those things that in the past.
I love Mike McCarthy in terms of what he can
bring and make and mold out of what he's given
in terms of a football team. We saw that down
the stretch of last year and that's where my respect
lines with Mike McCarthy. However, I'm reluctant to give him
the keys to the entire busy. And that's what I
(40:19):
was just.
Speaker 6 (40:21):
Like, we're talking about this entire show alignment.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Everybody in the middle.
Speaker 5 (40:26):
Everybody, Okay, all right, let's move on.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
One more, one more break, one more segment here on
this week of Talking Cowboys. When we come back, what
are the priorities for the Cowboys this offseason? Where do
we start in this long journey that we have ahead.
Speaker 8 (40:40):
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Speaker 7 (41:42):
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Speaker 6 (42:12):
We're going to overtime Erica.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
How much have I spent on concessions?
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For questions about their money, Dallas Cowboys fans can turn
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(42:37):
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Speaker 5 (42:46):
To Talking Cowboys Back, You're Talking Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
This segment has brought to you by and visilining the
official Smile of the Dallas cow Boys. Welcome back into
the show. Patrick Knows so you Walker, Josh Roderiguez, Tommy Ours,
Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeoman's wrapping up
this one and only weekly edition of Talking cal.
Speaker 6 (43:09):
Like do you we get to Yeah? Yeah, we fit
it all in one episode.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
It with your chest, you know, yeah, we do get
the cram it all into. But then we got a
wait forty fire week.
Speaker 6 (43:21):
Forty five minutes snapshot.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Yeah, not forty five minutes, don't We're now.
Speaker 6 (43:28):
Yeah, forty five minutes.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
You kidding me?
Speaker 3 (43:30):
I mean the next show that we're on has me
and Tommy on it, so I guess we're just hurting
ourselves at that point. All right, Uh? Priority the Wolves? Yes, Cowboys?
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Wait, baby, what's your.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Priority this offseason? What's the first domino that needs to fall?
And I'm not talking about coach or locol McClay, so
wipe those off the board. We've talked about those enough.
What's the ones thing outside of front office and or
coaching moves that needs to happen?
Speaker 6 (43:56):
Retain George Lewis resigned Geordan Lewis as soon aceptually to steal,
to steal a phrase from my buddy Patrick here. To me,
Jordan Lewis is one of the beating hearts of your defense.
You don't have de Marvin overshown for the foreseeable future,
not until late twenty five, according to the Marvin Overstone.
To me, Jordan Lewis is giving you everything he deserves,
(44:19):
the bag he deserves to be on this team. You
do not want to lose a guy like Jordan Lewis.
To me, that is the guy that will truly get
you where you want it.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
And that's not gonna happen until the league year right
free agency starts, because he's gonna see what.
Speaker 6 (44:33):
And he deserves out there. He deserves to. But just
make him priority.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
You know one way you could keep Jordan Lewis and
Osa Odigi Zuwa. By the way, this is my number one.
Extend Micah and do it quickly. You can leave everything
right now, exceptionally right now. Michael Parsons in his fifth
year option, he said to hit the Cowboys cap for
over twenty one million dollars per over the cap. If
you extend Michael Parsons right now, you not only don't
(45:01):
suffer that twenty one million dollar hit, but you get
sixteen point one million dollars in savings towards your salary cap.
They're going to figure out the coming see but that
hopefully so because right now the Cotton Bowl, at the
Cotton they're gonna they're in the sweet together at the
Cotton Bowl. And Jerry said he and Michael, yes, seriously,
I love it. Get the deal done overs.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
In Ohio state, Hey, get the deal done.
Speaker 5 (45:24):
Both of their schools. Everybody wants to watch Texas.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
It's not Arkansas and it's not Penn States.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Disagree, Yeah, get the deal done over some nachos by
all means. But currently the Cowboys have seventeen million dollars
in available cap space that will roll over to twenty
twenty five if you get another sixteen million dollars toward
that by extending Michael Parsons. This is money that goes
potentially goes to Osa, potentially goes to Jordan Lewis and
some of the other guys that you want to retain.
You have twenty two unrestricted free agents coming up, and
(45:53):
not just not just Jags, not just the name, these
are these are dogs, Okay, So you want to get
that on Chauncey Ghost and being another name that comes
to mind. So for me, extend Michael Parsons and get
him done right now. And I love what Michael said
in that he doesn't want to be in the way.
Michael wants to get his deal done quickly because he
wants that money to go towards helping to build the team.
Speaker 6 (46:13):
So let's hope his agent feels that way.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
I'm gonna take a moment here and play super duper
Devil's advocate because I do not want this to happen.
I want to preface this, but it has been a conversation.
There was even an NFL Network report about it. Would
you ever consider trading michaeh It have to.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Be the herschel Walker trade. It have to be just
on I want your soul, like if I if I'm
trading Michael Parsons, I want your soul. And if if
that's if that's a non starter for you, don't even
call it. Don't even call me.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
So just play play along here. What would it take?
Speaker 1 (46:49):
What would be what would have to the starter conversation
is two first round picks. Okay, So that's that starts.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
That's not the end.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
That's not the end, okay, because you're gonna throw in
maybe another mid rounder and probably a player of my
picks within reason.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
So okay, So you said no very quickly? Are you
completely out?
Speaker 5 (47:09):
Look a look at look at what happened to this
defense when he came back.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Oh, I agree. That's why I said, I want your
soul wants us to play along.
Speaker 5 (47:16):
I'm trying to. I'm trying to play Devil's advocates. I'm
not playing at all.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
That's not fair.
Speaker 6 (47:23):
You can't three ones and Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
We'll see. There's nobody with multiple ones this year, at
least at the moment.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
So, I mean, I want your soul, but Cal wants
me to play along. If I'm to play along, that's
my price. But I'm not playing along in real life.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
So yeah, No, Let's say I'm trying to think. I
don't even know who would who would have Lawrence Taylor.
Let's say Jacksonville. Jacksonville is trying to make a statement.
They've already got one edg Rusher and Walker on the
outside that they feel really confident in. They've got a quarterback.
They don't have to have their fifth overall draft pick
(48:01):
this year. Jacksonville comes, they offer you five this year,
they offer you two future first round picks.
Speaker 5 (48:07):
Would you do it?
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Would you think about it? That's three first round picks
and the top five for sure this year, and you
can't current you get to keep twelve too, where you
picked Micah back in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Okay, my answer is still no, but I haven't hung
up the phone yet either.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
Okay, what about those three first and we'll throw REI
who's their top received? I don't even know, so no,
I'm there, Okay, second receiver, they're not trading him Christian Kirk.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
Yeah, they throw in Christian Kirk to a veteran receiver
that you could possibly use.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
No, no, no, okay, I don't like this game anymore.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
I agree. I don't want to just extend him.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Get the money, use the money in and let's cook.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Where's your priority, Tommy.
Speaker 5 (48:55):
I think they'd have a good draft when they When
I look back at this past year draft, there's some
good picks there. Cooper BB had a fantastic season. I
like what Marshaw Neeland did when healthy. Marys Lee if
has got a really bright future. Still unclear of what
Tyler Guidon looks like. Yes, still very unclear on what
(49:16):
that looks like. I'd like to see him get a
full training camp in, be fully healthy, and it might
be you know, shuffling him around and seeing if maybe
there's a spot replays better. Bottom line is, I'm a
believer in that you put your best five out there, yes,
regardless of you can't be too strict and assigning certain spots.
You got to have your best five out there. So
I'm looking at a better draft this time around and
(49:39):
seeing if not to again not to say that this
past draft was something you just completely dump away It's
only been one season, and you know, Ryan Flinoy, Nathan Thomas,
Justin Rogers, still Kaylin Carson even still have time around
to develop. He is back, still have time to prove something.
But after these rookie seasons, you know, only three of
(50:00):
your picks really standing out. I think you got to
be better this time, and all with some level of
question mark exactly exactly, which is typical for for for
rookie Harry typical. Again, don't don't take this as me
being overly critical, but I think you got to be
much stronger.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
This time, by the way, Marshaw naland scout pick and
Marris leaf out scout pick. So keep that in mind.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
We all have that conversation for the twenty twenty three
draft class. What was that the twenty twenty three draft class.
I'm interested, not now, but down the road scout picks
his coaching pigs because I class did. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
Yeah, we can talk about that all right, more draft
talk next, right, yeah, exactly, Yeah, day tune. We've got
the Draft Show. First episode will be out if you're
listening to this in post, it'll probably already be out
on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. But we're going to the
Draft Show. Tommy Yursh is going to be on the
Draft Show this year, maybe looking forward to it. Man,
I'm really another member of the Talking Cowboys family. Nick
(50:55):
Harris returns. You've got Brian broad Us, You've got Foch Lombardi, god,
Zach Wolschew, Bobby Belt, We've got the It's basically the
Avengers of Draft Cut. It's gonna be fun, So let's
get it going. We've got the Draft Show coming up.
But that does it for us here on Talking Cowboys,
presented by Black Rifle Coffee. We will be back next Tuesday.
(51:15):
This is our normal time Tuesday at ten am Central
Time for Patrick noc Walker, Josh Rodriguez, Tomyrish, Chris Beam
in the backup Kyle Yoman saying so long with singing
next week on Talking Cowboys. This has been a production
of Dallascowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
The following.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
He is a production of Dallas Cowboys dot Com and
the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
This He's Talking Cowboys, springing live.
Speaker 4 (00:19):
From the Dallas Cowboys World headquarters.
Speaker 5 (00:21):
At the Star in Frisco.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Touchdown six second plus dot.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
Kitsis any continent touchdown and.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Now your hosts Isaiah Standback, Patrick Walker, Josh Rodriguez, and
Kyle Yeomans.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
It's an off season edition of Talking Cowboys, presented by
Black Rifle Coffee Company, live from the Star in Frisco,
Texas in the SWBC studios. Welcome in, everybody, as we
are ready to attack this twenty twenty five off season
with a head, a heavy heart, and with a little
extra I don't even know, maybe a little extra juice,
(01:01):
because it's gonna be an interesting off season to say
the least. We've got Patrick Noci Walker, Josh Rodriguez, Tommy
Yarrish with Chris Bean in the back. I'm Kyle Yeomans.
It's gonna be yeah, buckle up, here we go. That's
buckle up, buttercup. Yeah, I mean, this is gonna be
a an off season that is not for the faint
of heart. Cowboys have relatively zero cap room and don't
(01:24):
seem super happy about their options of finagling that cap room.
Speaker 5 (01:30):
And oh and by the way, they've got to make.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
A decision on their head coach moving forward.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
So lots to talk about. Yeah, a little bit on
the docket there.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
But yeah, how's everybody doing.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Everybody great? Great?
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Had some little chili coming in.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
Yeah, oh yeah, that hawk has arrived, dude low bringing
is bringing carry on luggage. This this is coming weekend.
Speaker 3 (01:53):
What man, that one's on, Tommy.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
Is it is crispy as a Northerner, it is very cold.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Yeah, you're from Chicago, Yeah, one of the bears.
Speaker 5 (02:07):
We'll talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Twenty one degrees is twenty one degrees no matter where
you are. The other thing I would say, is that
different for in Chicago because win But we talked about
a few days ago that wind that us shoot this run.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
In that was very like yeah, yeah, and the snow
that's about to hit two is very We're expected to
get seven inches of I've seen.
Speaker 6 (02:30):
Very I've seen one to four seven.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
I saw graphic of eight to twelve.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I'm like, yeah, that was over like a couple of days. Yeah,
that that graphic up at the top. It's like over
three or four days.
Speaker 5 (02:43):
But still either believe the one I see it is
how I'm kind of seeing it because because there, because
you're from Chicago. No no, no, no, no no, no,
no no no. I'm not trying to not trying to
upset mother nature. I'm just saying there have been many
a time in this lone star state where you know,
the weizer experts say hey, it's gonna snow x y
(03:04):
z amount and then you get flurries and that's it.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Regardless.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Everybody stay safe when you're driving, you're careful of good
and please don't get hurt.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Meteorologist Tommy Ash talking.
Speaker 6 (03:14):
To you, have a meteorol see you doing it.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
We gotta get you to screen.
Speaker 5 (03:20):
We gotta get you to stop wearing button ups.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
To talking cowboys.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
That's the next step that direction.
Speaker 3 (03:25):
Everybody looks very yeah, okay, well this very cowboys.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
We need.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
We got to get fast and loose in there. You
got your butt up. Don't listen to that thank you
say with your chest.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
When when you're here with it.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Man, you got one guy on one side of the
table wearing a button up and the other guy on
the other side of the table wearing a night Here
on the Element T shirt.
Speaker 6 (03:47):
If anything, just undo one of them, you know what
I mean, give us a little more neck you know,
I'm saying.
Speaker 7 (03:55):
Ye.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Got an undershirt.
Speaker 6 (03:58):
He's got the chain on them. Kids watching, I'm just saying, dude,
we're talking about cool.
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Just think what does the chain have a number on it?
Speaker 5 (04:05):
It does, it's a numbers. It's twenty eight for my
girlfriend's softphone. Let's go.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
That's a supporting boyfriend right now.
Speaker 1 (04:14):
I love bit.
Speaker 3 (04:15):
We're going to talk about that after the show.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
All right.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Cowboys fall in their final game of the regular season.
Nineteen vote for Darren Woodson, please do so.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
Twenty eight.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Yep, that's why you wear the necklace. You're trying to
get exact into canton uh reaction from Washington h Cowboys
fall twenty three to nineteen in the final seconds of
the twenty twenty four season. It was a bummer way
to end it. I don't think there's a whole lot
of people that were upset about it. At the end
(04:45):
of the day, it was a game going into it.
We all talked about it. It was a chance to evaluate,
got to see Trey Lance quite a bit, got to
see Jonathan Mingo, got to see Deuce Fawn. Finally you
got to see all these guys play a little extra
snaps up front, and I thought you still got what
you needed to out of that game. You had a
chance to win it against a playoff team that played
(05:07):
their starters for the first half, made some switches in
the second half, and honestly, you played really well against
their starters in the first half with your reserves and
your depth, so lots to come out of that. Your
thoughts after the.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Loss, well, first and foremost, I think that Mike Zimmer
might be kryptonite to Jaydeon Daniels. I mean, outside of
the the Terry McLaurin pass late in the first matchup,
he's more or less shut down Jaydon Daniels. It took
Marcus Mariota to enter in the game for the Commanders
that have any kind of juice offensively.
Speaker 3 (05:39):
To tell he was trying to yeah, oh yeah, yeah,
he had a vendetta.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Absolutely, it was trying to make something happen so interesting there.
That was a big takeaway for me, is like, you know,
as much as some other defensive coordinators have been trying
to figure out Jaydon Daniels. Mike Zimmers had his number
from day one, so intriguing, and I wouldn't you know,
mind putting that in the category of pros versus cons
As far as if you're going to bring zimber bag,
he clearly has the number of the franchise quarterback of
(06:06):
a rival you're going to play multiple times a year
for the next several years, so keep that in mind.
But I'm going to circle to Trey Lance. Finally we
get not only Trey Lance as a starter, we get
a full game to evaluate Trey Lance. I've been standing
here pleading for months now to see it. What never said?
Speaker 3 (06:23):
I know, man burn all.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
The receipts, I saw good and I saw bad from
Trey Lance, which was expected. I didn't expect that he
would go out there and light up the school board
to the tune of forty one points.
Speaker 6 (06:37):
Josh, Hey, you know, but I would have liked if
those were touchdowns instead of field goals. Been a little
closer for Yeah, a little.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
Baby puts it in when you have gold to go
on more than just one occasion out of the several.
Speaker 6 (06:50):
Chances you got into the red zone quite a few times.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Did he used his legs, which we knew was going
to happen. He looked great doing so. Some of his
throws were more crisp than I than I expect. He
had some good accuracy in that first half, that's a zip.
He had some good accuracy, some anticipation some of those throws.
But in the second half, when he was tasked with
applying touch to those passes, it reared its head again,
(07:12):
which is that's what he's been struggling with. And I've
been saying that since training camp. We've talked about it
since training camp when it comes to those those fades,
which is why I couldn't understand why the Cowboys kept
calling the fades the and then I.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Mean, I know it was just a mistake, but the
one di Rico daddle and.
Speaker 5 (07:28):
I felt so bad.
Speaker 6 (07:30):
Yeah, but you know what helps, Yeah, it's true, man, yea,
let me.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
So come on, t I mean, was it perfect. Absolutely not.
We didn't expect that it would be, but he did
show me. I could honestly sit here and say he
showed me enough to in Fred since the two way Street,
so he would have to want to come back. But
from a front office standpoint, based on that game, I
would be willing to welcome him back at a reasonable
price for that QB two battle for twenty QB two.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
That that second point is very important.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Reasonable price, reasonable price, Yeah, of course, very very true.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
I think I'm there too. The timing was one of
the things, Josh. I'm sure you'll allude to this too,
but the timing was off a bit in some of
the throws. He whenever it comes to the cannon that
he has, doesn't matter, it's still going to happen. Like
he's still got arm velocity, he's got the accuracy at times.
It's anytime you've got a finesse. He doesn't have that
(08:33):
element to his game, and the timing is a part
of that.
Speaker 6 (08:36):
But I will say Jonathan Mingo had his best game
as a cowboy.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
What do you know? What do you know?
Speaker 5 (08:40):
What happens when you get a good pass?
Speaker 6 (08:43):
More than one exactly?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
And I've interpret some things.
Speaker 6 (08:45):
To me, it felt like Trey Lance had more juice,
I mean overall than what Kooper Rush was bringing you. Granted,
you're getting more of a conservative I don't want to
say bus driver flippantly, but that's kind of what you
get from a Cooper Rush, right, And we talked about
it several times where you're not seeing the zip on
Cooper Rush's throws, whereas for Trey Lance, you were seeing
(09:07):
him throw the ball down the field. You were getting
multiple opportunities for guys like Cavante Turpin, multiple opportunities for
guys like Jonathan Mingo. There was juice there, and I
would have killed to have seen that develop over several
games versus one single game. However, if you're Trey Lance,
do you in the now where we're talking free agency? Right,
(09:33):
if you are Trey Lance, do you not feel like
you might have a better shot staying here at QB
two then restarting with a brand new coaching staff. I mean, well,
I don't know, starting over, I know, right, and maybe
a new coaching staff to begin with anyways, So I
don't know. I just feel like.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Build on this man to answer your question, and I'll
throw it to tell me. If I'm Trey Lance, I'm
going really for a couple of reasons. One, if I
were literally Trey Lance, I'm looking at it as you
finally gave me the start in week eighteen. However, why
not give me the opportunity when we were mathematically eliminated
from the playoffs, even if it was not a little
(10:17):
bit more than a package here there, but zero reps
is crazy. But also when you consider the fact that
in speaking with Trey Lance after the game and going
into this offseason, though when I asked him, he did
say he is still not focused on free agency, so
as recently as right after the game, he was like,
I'm still right where I am. I need to do
some reflection on the season. But he also said he's
(10:39):
looking forward to an opportunity. That stuck with me because
the question then becomes the opportunity to be what is
an opportunity to remain a QB two and maybe be
someone's QB three if they don't feel like they want
to compete with the QB two. If it's for a chance,
even a remote chance to be QB one, that's not
happening here. So if I'm Trey Lance, and that opportunity
(11:02):
that I'm looking for is at least a I don't
want to say fair, but at least an open opportunity
to battle for QB one somewhere, that's I'm going really quickly.
Speaker 6 (11:13):
If you are another two, I mean, I granted, maybe
we're too close to the cowboy situation of it all.
But I don't think he has a QB one.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
I'm not saying, hey, I'm not saying he has a And.
Speaker 6 (11:22):
I don't think anybody takes a mill again on like
the one game that he gave you to say, oh well,
let's give him a shot at QB one. I think
his best scores of action would be to stay. But
then again, I am very biased.
Speaker 1 (11:32):
But I see what you're saying. So let me clarify.
I mean contextually speaking, so from a Trey Lance standpoint,
if he's talking about an opportunity to compete for QB one,
not necessarily right off the bat, because he's not going
to have this influx of NFL teams that are beating
down his doing free agency. Let's be clear on that.
But if it's a way two or three, and it may,
and if it is those two or three, you look
(11:55):
at those two or three, and you look at the
starting QB situation and you say, is that a Dak Prescott?
Is that a Patrick Mahomes? Is that a tool? If
the answer is no, no, no, is that a CJ. Stroud.
If the answer is no, no, no, no no, then
you have a chance. You go in knowing that you're
likely QB two in those two or three situations, but
you have your eye open to say I can probably
(12:16):
beat out QB one.
Speaker 6 (12:17):
But are you looking at Dak Prescott in terms of
health saying like, hey, man.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Oh, I mean that's a different that's a conversation, a
different conversation. I mean, the contract for Dak has him here,
of course, ever, but you could look elsewhere and say, okay,
is that an aging quarterback too? Of course, guys that
are out what I mean, bad example, because he's an
unrestricted free agent. But let's say Aaron Rodgers returns to
New York. That's example, and then he returns to New York,
(12:43):
and then there's a second opportunity at the quarterback spot there.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Maybe Trey Lance is out there.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
You've got next up, guarantee. I don't know if Trey
Lance has earned that opportunity yet. From an NFL wide standpoint,
I'm curious to see what you think.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
I don't think so, and I don't think he put
enough on tape on Sunday to warrant that either. I
think you guys make good points. When I look at
Trey Lance. This is a guy who has not played
a lot of football in his career. When you think
back to his days in college and in the NFL. Now,
this is a guy who, simply put is very raw,
and that's why Dallas took him because they wanted to
see what could happen when they baked him a little
(13:18):
bit and see what the product was. I don't think
it was an awful product on Sunday, and I don't
think that he's just been sitting there all this entire time.
I think there has been some development during his time here.
But when you look at that game on Sunday, like
Patrick said, there was good, there was bad. Easy passes
like the end zone that he underthrows, you've got to
make those. You just have to make those. I thought
(13:39):
there were some instances where he had running room in
front of him. I mean, all we've talked about with
adding Trey Lance to the folded quarterback has been using
his legs.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
As psych he took him the second half.
Speaker 5 (13:49):
He's got six carries for twenty six yards. I think
he could have easily had fifty to fifty five sixty
yards in this game if he tucks a couple more
and takes off.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Yeah, and so that QB two opportunity.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
I don't know if it's here, because I think Cooper
Rush gives you the better opportunity to win as a
backup quarterback because he's already done it for you. It's
not fun football all the time because it's more of
just to manage the game, push the ball downfield, stick
to the script type deal. But if it's winning you
football games, that's what he's done and until he proves
you otherwise, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
Why Philadelphia, and also really.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
Quick unless it's Philadelphia, since.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
That Cooper Rush point. Cooper Rush has already felt what
it's like to be on a different team, and I
don't think he wants to go through that again.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
That didn't happen very well, right.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
He's extremely comfortable here, even if there's a change of
head quotes. The quarterback is still Dak Prescott and they
have a great relationship, and Cooper Rush is going to
likely accept the veteran minimum to remain here. So that
sounds delicious for a front office that's pushing the cap
issue as something to content with.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
It's also a front office that's trying to prove that
the fourth round pick that they sent to San Francisco
was worth it at the same time.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
So there's there's elements to really trying to prove that
he would have start.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Started a long time ago. I agree, trust me.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
I will say I think there are a lot of
situations where Trey Lance can really excel. Sure, I just
don't know if it's here.
Speaker 1 (15:09):
And that's where I am with it. Yeah, so the
I'm Trey Lance, that's how I feel. I don't know
if this is the fit for me right.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
A couple of things that add there. I think based
off of what we saw on Sunday, Trey Lance is
an NFL quarterback right, Yes, playing and simple, he is
an NFL quarterback, just not a store not a starter.
That's kind of and where where we are there's still
that possibility because there were flashes of it. And there's
always the athleticism side of things too that I think
(15:37):
you have to keep in mind. You bring up a
great point, the timidness to run. I wish Isaiah was
here for this, because Isaiah was a dual threat quarterback
in his own right, and he was talking about it
on Sunday when we were watching the game. He was saying,
I think they have told him they want to see
him as a passer. He's like, because when you're a
running quarterback and you're told all your life going up
(15:58):
into the NFL, run when you need to run, when
you need to run, when you need to Then you
get to the NFL and you face guys that are
much more athletic than what you've seen in the past,
and they say, we need you to stop running. Your
instincts go away. Yeah, there were a couple of times.
You go back on film, there was the sact that
he took where he's statued statued up, but then you
could see there was a moment, there's a moment in
(16:20):
his head where the instincts kicked in. He took a step,
but then he sat down and he sat in it.
So there are times in that game and you can
go back and watch it. Go find the film where
he takes a step and that instinct is there. You
could see it. Run run, run, run and run. But
he pulls back and then because his voice is correct,
because he's being told, we want to see what you
can do as a pocket passer in the NFL against defenses,
(16:44):
against pass rush, how do you avoid it? Did a
great job on the play. The Rico Dattle to avoid
the pass rush. He was swarmed behind the line of scrimmage,
had a brilliant move that was Trey Lancel was like,
this is the play, and then it just fluttered to
the ground and it was unfortunate. So that's the microcosm.
If you could take the entirety of Trey Lance's NFL career,
(17:04):
both in San Francisco and in Dallas right now, put
it into one play, it would be that Rico Doubtle play, athleticism, talent, vision,
all sorts of society. But then it just still doesn't
click and it still doesn't happen. So I'm interested. He's
one of the more intriguing storylines going into the off
(17:25):
season and an off season full of storylines. But it's
interesting because he could be one of those guys. I mean,
we're looking at across the NFC playoff put picture right now,
how many of those guys that are currently quarterbacks in
a playoff picture right now are thrown away by their
not original teams, but other teams along the way. You've
got Jared Goff as the number one seed. You've got
(17:46):
Sam Darnold as a possible MVP. Conversation you've got Baker Mayfield,
who was on the Carolina Panthers backing up Andy Dalton
like a year and a half ago. Like, there's all
of these things that are playing a factor. I don't
know if I'm ready to give up on Trey Lance
just yet. And he shouldn't be as a team.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
He's shown he's worth further development. Yes, as a player.
If I'm Trey Lance, I just got to feel like
there's a potentially better fit some world and.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Maybe a better price too.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
If they're telling him not to run at all costs,
I think that you're cutting him off the knees. You're
selling that is just that second.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
I almost jumped out of the press box window, like
I was just like, you gotta be kidding me. He
had the green there, and if he takes that, he's
probably in the one yard line and his fourth and short.
Now we've seen how that happened. But nonetheless, maybe you scored,
whatever the case, don't stat up in that situation. And
that's a good point. Go back and look at the film.
He stuttered and then stood back up.
Speaker 6 (18:41):
And you're taking away one of the reasons you have
him on the team. One of the reasons he exists
as a player.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
The reason he was the second most impressive quarterback in
that game was because look at what Marcus Mariota did
with his life. Came out right playing in Marcus Mariota.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Did a good thing.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
Arrows, He made some great throws.
Speaker 6 (18:59):
Don't get me wrong, he was definitely playing.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Yeah. Play of his game was the fourth and one
that he took off.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
The yeah, that's what you can do with Trey Lance
is basically so Mariota versus Tree Lance. It was the
battle of free agency backups. That's basically because they were
both battling to try to make themselves valuable.
Speaker 3 (19:17):
And Marcus mariotas Marcus, Yes you did, Marcus. Marcus Mariota
is a QB two with with starter upside, whereas Trey
Lance is a QB two with developmental upside. That's part
of what perfect I looked at it out of this.
All right, let's take our first break when we come back.
Trey Lance is not the only decision that the Cowboys
are going to have to make over the next few
(19:38):
weeks and door months. We've got one coming up that's
got a deadline of January fourteenth, and somebody's already knocking
on the door to talk to Mike McCarthy when we
come back. What does the coaching situation look like with
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Speaker 5 (22:00):
Talking Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Back here on Talking Cowboys. This portion of the show
is brought to you by Quaker Oats, the official oatmeal
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It is presented by Black Rifle Coffee. Of course, got
our Black Rifle because we're going to need some of
that throughout this offseason. The Chicago Bears had a little
Black Rifle Coffee up in the Windy City past weekend,
did they yeah? Early morning hours the day after the
Cowboys were eliminated from the twenty twenty four campaign, the
(22:51):
Chicago Bears reported to have asked for permission to talk
to Mike McCarthy. They said, we're not going to wait
until this January fourteenth deadline. We would like to throw
out a possible request to talk to your head coach.
Speaker 5 (23:05):
Now, yeah, make a decision.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
Is what January sixth and they're deciding to invade our building?
Speaker 5 (23:11):
I don't know, n goes the star Baby. Is that
the first time that's happened.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
I think so.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
There's not any other time that that could but the Yeah,
that's exactly what they did. They sent an insurrection of sorts.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
If you will.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Trying to talk to our head guy for sure.
Speaker 6 (23:33):
Uh, I don't even know where.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
To go for me.
Speaker 5 (23:36):
Yeah, that's why.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
It'll be interesting to see if the Cowboys use this, uh,
this window of exclusivity to try to hammer out a deal.
If they decided they're going.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
To keep away, they accept it, right.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
No, I wouldn't say so, because if you're even considering
keeping him around, you you use this window in your
your favor. You don't just let someone invade and give
him for me? No, no, no, you wait until Jamiary fourteen.
Let us have our conversation. I know you do, because
he a decision made.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
Like yes, yesterday or last week or already.
Speaker 6 (24:06):
And I'm with you, and he's on record saying that
would have happened last week.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
But I would say, and we've said this on this
on this panel before, when I was naming some teams
that when I said free agency is a two way street,
not just for players but for coaches alike. Okay, So,
for as much as the Cowboys need to decide on
miche McCarthy, Mike McCarthy needs to decide on the Cowboys.
This is not a Jason Garrett situation. This is not
Jason Garrett situation where there was no interest from it.
(24:31):
Any other other third said that as far as the
head coaching position is concerned, this is different. Mike McCarthy
has actual value. He's coming. He re established a culture
with the Cowboys. Playoff clature didn't get reestablished fair enough,
I agree, But three twelve and five seasons becomes one
of the winningest coaches in Cowboys franchise history. He has
the Super Bowl ring shining on his finger. He's shown
(24:53):
that he can hit the reset button for your franchise,
whatever your franchise might be. That's going to be very
intriguing for teams like Jacksonville, New Orleans and the Chicago Bears.
And it just makes sense for me. The New Orleans Saints.
He has history there, He's a former oc there. Okay,
I don't know that he would deal with what's going
on in Jacksonville because Trent balk is still out there
and that's just a toxic situation. But the Bears intrigued me,
(25:15):
and that's why that was the lead horse for a
team that would come after McCarthy in my eyes that
I said a few weeks ago. Number one, it puts
him a geographically closer to home. His family is still
in green Bay still, right. Point Number two is that
we all know how his time in Green Bay ended.
This would give him an opportunity to play against the
Bears twice a year for the next several years. Right
(25:39):
and then I had a court a thought. I think
I said it to you, Temmy, I said it to
someone if in fact the Mikes are a package deal,
Mike McCarthy and Mike Zimmer To that same point, Mike
Zimmer would be going back to the NFC North and
he would get to exercise a vendetta against the Minnesota
Vikings for multiple times a year for the next years.
So it's a very intriguing standpoint. I want to get
(26:01):
the take of the Chicago native. What what what's the
temperature of your home city as far as possibly bringing
McCarthy in.
Speaker 5 (26:08):
Well, it's cold. Here's the thing when I look at this,
a couple things. First of all, the Bears have requested
twelve head coaching yes, right now. Yeah, this is a
wide net.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
I've got a list. If you want me to listen,
they're turning over everyone.
Speaker 1 (26:23):
Actually, I would love for you to listen.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Okay. So these are the other interviews that the Bears
have requested. Brian Flores Vikings defensive coordinator, Aaron Glenn Lions
defensive coordinator that has been accepted, Ben Johnson, offensive coordinator
for the Lions, Mike Kafka, Giants OC Mike McCarthy, Cowboys
head coach Todd Monkin, Raven's offensive coordinator Drew Petsig, Cardinals
(26:45):
OC David Shaw, former Stanford head coach and current Broncos
executive Arthur Smith, Steelers offensive coordinator Anthony Weaver, Dolphins defensive
coordinator Mike Vrabel, former Titans head coach.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
That one has also been scheduled. Yeah, so I think
Ben Johnson's probably the leader in the clubhouse there. When
when I look at this situation, I understand why the
Cowboys right now aren't letting, aren't accepting that because he's
you know, he's still under that period until the fourteenth.
I think they'd be doing Mike McCarthy a massive disservice
(27:16):
if they were to go through this next seven days
and not have any intention of bringing him back. I'm
not saying that's what's happening. I'm just saying that's something
to keep an eye on. So the fact that nothing
has agree more time, the fact that nothing has been accepted,
tells me at least that there's interest in retaining Mike
McCarthy's head coach. So the other part of this is
(27:38):
when you look at the fit in Chicago, my thing is,
are the Bears going to be willing to bring somebody
who frankly owned them for a majority of a decade
plus to try and turn this frand to try to
turn the franchise around. I think Mike McCarthy would be
a good fit in Chicago because he's he's got a
track record of developing quarterbacks. Kali Williams call a guy
(28:00):
and right, he's gotten comparisons to Aaron Rodgers. He's said
he's idolized Aaron Rodgers and how he tries to play
the game. So that's there, But I'm not so sure
that Mike McCarthy is very high on the list of
candidates for them at this point in time, because when
you think about the Bears in the past too, they've
always been a defense heavy franchise. That's been their bread
(28:22):
and butter. They want to play good defense and they
want to run the football.
Speaker 3 (28:25):
How does that work for them since it hasn't worked
well at all?
Speaker 5 (28:29):
You know, Like I said, I think Ben Johnson's the
leader in the clubhouse, but they're also just casting a
wide net. So it doesn't shock me at all that
McCarthy's on that list. And I'm sure there will be
other teams that throw their hat in the Mike McCarthy circle,
But at least from right now, with nothing at all
being said about we've granted Mike McCarthy the permission to
(28:51):
do this interview. That tells me that there's interest in
bringing him back.
Speaker 6 (28:54):
It just sounds like they're turning over every rock, which
is what they should do when you're in that position
of need, when you're in position of trying to rebrand
the identity of your team. Possibly, I think that's a
great way to go about it. But you said, uh,
you know, Mike McCarthy basically owned Chicago Bears for a
good time whenever he was with the Packers. The Cowboys
were in a similar situation too.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
I mean, he won a.
Speaker 6 (29:16):
Super Bowl here h and Aaron Rodgers and the Packers
did a lot of the unkind things to the Dallas
Cowboys with Mike McCarthy as coach. So we were sort
of in a situation where we're like, Okay, if you
can't beat them, get them, Yeah, yeah, bring them on,
bring them on. But then again, you have to consider
Mike McCarthy's record against the Packers since leaving the Packers
(29:40):
has not been great. Man, He's not performed very well,
especially a certain wild card game from last season.
Speaker 5 (29:47):
I want to talk about this, stop it and you
can make an argument that the NFC and NORSE is
the toughest division.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yes right now, now, yes see, But that's you got
to keep that in mind too. In a different way, thing,
Ebb and flow in the NFL all the time right now,
right this second, the Vikings, the Lions and the Packers
are just all juggernauts, and they're beating up on each other,
and they're beating up on the Bears and they're beating
up on all the other teams in the NFC. But
(30:16):
within four to five years, when you've got a fully
developed Caleb Williams, you've got a fresh roster of young
talent and guys that you can go get. They have
some salary crap cap room to keep that in mind,
Cowboys salary, that's what it is in Dallas right now.
Speaker 1 (30:36):
But that's.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
So the fact that Mike has already been told by
the front office the same way Steven Jones has told
everybody else, we don't have money to spend this offseason,
which is true. They are strapped in terms of the
salary cap. When you get to the salary cap in Chicago,
it's not nearly as bad. It's not perfect either, it's
about halfway, but you've got some room to move. You've
got a young quarterback and at some point you will
(31:00):
be that juggernaut.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
But you know they don't have in Chicago. You don't
have a an established all pro quarterback which some years
left not yet but not yet that he's built to
Kyle Yoman's always say it hasn't happened.
Speaker 3 (31:15):
It hasn't happened, but he's built two of them. You
got to give him credit. He built dac first got
into an All Pro fair and he helped build h Aaron.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Oh, I mean they have it.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Who's there, Michael Parsons, Eric Keenan Allen, who's the on
over show?
Speaker 1 (31:31):
I mean they have they have a couple of pieces.
So now, and what we're doing is, yeah, so we're
doing it from a POV from McCarthy right now, folks,
is what we're saying right now. So if you're McCarthy, yeah,
these are some things that you're waning. And I'm not
saying that he would wave off Chicago because they don't
have as many of the cornerstone pieces as the Cowboys have.
(31:51):
But it is a rightful conversation for a guy who
has so many years in the league, and you have
to start wondering at this point, this is fair wonder
how many more years McCarthy wants to coach in the league.
Right So maybe he feels like he and this is
just speculative, maybe he feels like he doesn't want to
do a hard reset with a particular team or any
(32:12):
particular team. So these are all things that McCarthy is
going to mole in his head, is what I'm.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
Saying, and he goes back to what Tommy said, that's
this is all speculative.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
If he's even the choice in Chicago, Ben Johnson and
Aaron Glenn, that's one A and one B on anyone's
list who's looking for him for sure, and then the
rest includes McCarthy is like in the group of the conversation,
Tier B, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5 (32:39):
I think Mike still got a lot left in the tank,
and I think he takes pride in being a builder.
He talked about that postgame after Washington. He really enjoys
building a program from the ground up. You could argue
he did that in Green Bay. Obviously, they're one of
the historic franchises in the NFL. The Bears are too.
The issue with the Bears is they've whiffed on their
head coaching hires, they've whiffed on their general manager hires,
(33:01):
and it's just kind of been a mess. There's never
been alignment, I don't think in Chicago, and some of
the draft choices that they've made, like this past year,
taking you know, Rama Donze instead of maybe there's an
offensive a lignement on the board who could have helped
you out there. They have the worst offensive line in
the NFL this year, maybe one of the worst offensive
lines time. I mean, it was just terrible to watch
the Caleb Williams was one of, if not the most
(33:22):
sacked quarterbacks in the NFL.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
He was the most.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
I think it was a record to Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
I think was was he.
Speaker 6 (33:29):
I think he was the most sack.
Speaker 5 (33:31):
Of the Regardless regardless of the case, they've got to
draft better, there's got to be alignment. It doesn't they
just have to hit this head coaching higher or else.
It's just going to be the same sort of cycle
that they've gotten themselves into, where you know, you've got
your quarterback who is dealing with a new head coach
every two years. He's dealing with a new GM every year,
and that's just, you know, not sustainable for an NFL.
Speaker 3 (33:53):
Williams was sacked sixteen more times than any other quarterback
this year. So you're thinking all time, all time.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yes, now we're plv in from Chicago. If I'm Chicago,
I'd love how they're handling it. As far as due
diligence cast a wide knit, that's just the wise thing
to do. But the possibility of having a chance to
cripple the Detroit Lions by pulling away either Aaron Glenn
or Ben Johnson. Blank you blank checked that. Yeah, you
(34:21):
just slapped Ben Johnson.
Speaker 5 (34:22):
A blank checking Johnson should get over and you know
they've got the personnel I think in Detroit and Johnson done,
what has he done?
Speaker 1 (34:31):
What is he doing?
Speaker 5 (34:32):
Scoring forty?
Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah? I think Ben Jonson, he plays that look really impactful.
Speaker 5 (34:39):
I think, well, I think part of the reason for
Ben Johnson's success too is the personnel that he's got.
But that is credit to to him. The way Detroit
has built their roster through the draft and through free agency.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
He turned him on the Saint Brown, a fourth round
pick into one of the top five or six receivers
in the NFL.
Speaker 5 (34:53):
But that's what happens when you've got alignment from the
top down. And so that's what you need for really
for any NFL franchise, you're owner, general manager, and head
coaching to all be on the same page and I'll
be moving forward together when it comes to personnel, coaching,
hires and things of that.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
And I could hear so many killboys fans right now.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Allow me to megaphone what fans think you're saying that,
do you feel that's the situation here in Dallas right now?
Right now they're in alignment.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
If they bring Michae McCarthy back, that shows me that
there is alignment. Yes, that there is alment sense of
I believe in what you're doing. I believe in what
your scheme looks like. I believe in what your personnel
decisions look like. That that would be my proof of
there's a line, because you'd be going on to year
with six or year year six of the same program,
(35:45):
the same way of doing things, and for a majority
of the same personnel.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
I think for the most part they have been in alignment,
which is why they were twelve and five, twelve and
five twelve five exactly align. I think what this season
did was expose the the part that was misaligned, which
is personnel decessions right depth. Jerry Jones himself, who does
a lot of spaghetti talking right, was very definitive when
(36:12):
asked after the game after the finale if he regrets
the personnel decisions not giving Mike McCarthy the roster that
he feels Mike because should have had. He said yes,
he said that's fair. So when you hear the owner
and general manager admitting that the personnel decisions could have
been better. Maybe they could have attacked free agency a
little bit better, Maybe they could have done this, could
have done that. I think that's the misalignment. So when
(36:33):
I pose the question for the fans of is it
like Detroit or can it be like Detroit where there's
this straight line going down with no wiggle room Right now,
there's too much wiggle room in that one capacity. I think,
what's the word I'm looking for? I think culturally, I
think strategically, I think they're all on the same page,
and they're on the same direction and they're moving in lockstep.
(36:55):
But there's that disconnect with personnel as far as who
Mike McCarthy would want to see added to the team
versus who is not added to the team, and then
who's added to the team instead of who Mike McCarthy
might want added to the team.
Speaker 6 (37:06):
And if they aren't aligned, they will be much aligned.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
But you can how long did you sit on that?
Speaker 5 (37:13):
You're sitting on it for a while. To wrap up
that point, you can fix that this offseason, Yes you can,
you definitely.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Can, But that's that's that's a promisory note. Yeah, well,
because that's what you would be signing for Mike McCarthy.
So if McCarthy decides if you want him back, and
he decides to come back, he's basically asking you to
sign a promisory note saying, when free agency and the
draft arrive, this is what this is what I want.
Give me what I want, Bautista, give me what I want.
Speaker 5 (37:42):
So that's that's when he gets what he wants.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
And maybe and even though the five seasons, maybe if
he got I there's come on, I come on, I
want to show this week.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
I want Will McClay to get what he wants. In
terms of the draft person the draft, I could care
less what Mike McCarthy wants from a player personnel standpoint,
as long as he's able to coach him and get
him ready to go. There's been too much I think
over the last two years coach intervention in the draft process.
But don't talk about that on the draft shows. At
(38:19):
some point down the line, like balance wise, totally fine. Yeah,
there's Draft eleven. I want if if you're bringing Will
McClay back, and you're bringing him back for the long
haul and Mike McCarthy's back, that's fine. I've already been
on record to say it would be a mistake to
get rid of Mike McCarthy. I stand by that right now.
I don't think he should have the same say that
(38:40):
he's had the last couple of years in terms of
the draft process. Fair enough, that's where I record.
Speaker 5 (38:46):
So I think I get.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
Speaking balance because here's what balance. I get what balance
gets you a safety position being revamped because of a
guy like Dan Quinn. Sure, dan Quinn came in. Before
dan Quinn, Cowboys couldn't get it at safety. Dan Quinn
comes in, he gets them to reevaluate the imports of
the safety position. That's what being in alignment compromise looks like.
When you don't compromise and it's just only giving the
(39:09):
scouts what they want and the coaches can't gel with
that personnel, you have a problem. And vice versa. Can
give the coaches everything they want, but the scouts aren't
really lought in.
Speaker 6 (39:19):
But then you'll see a lot of what Mike McCarthy's
done where it's like I don't know what to do
with this guy.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Yes, inactive Trey Lance, see, but I mean ceedee lamb
was that was a scout pick that Ceedee Lamb was
a Scout pick. Michael Parsons was a Scout pick. Marvin
Overshown was a win and a scout let them pick.
There have been some other picks that haven't happened. Mike
McCarthy wanted to run twelve personnel. That's why you have
(39:43):
Luke Schoomaker in the second round, plain and simple. They
wanted some of those other guys that are above them.
You have Luke Schoomaker because Mike McCarthy wanted Luke Schoomaker.
At that point, you've got all these other picks along
the way. Trey Smith scout pick that was not a
Mike McCarthy pick. That was a scout pick.
Speaker 1 (39:58):
Fair enough.
Speaker 3 (39:58):
There's a lot of those things that in the past.
I love Mike McCarthy in terms of what he can
bring and make and mold out of what he's given
in terms of a football team. We saw that down
the stretch of last year and that's where my respect
lines with Mike McCarthy. However, I'm reluctant to give him
the keys to the entire busy. And that's what I
(40:19):
was just.
Speaker 6 (40:21):
Like, we're talking about this entire show alignment.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
Everybody in the middle.
Speaker 5 (40:26):
Everybody, Okay, all right, let's move on.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
One more, one more break, one more segment here on
this week of Talking Cowboys. When we come back, what
are the priorities for the Cowboys this offseason? Where do
we start in this long journey that we have ahead.
Speaker 8 (40:40):
Right after this, Todd thought it would be secure to
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Speaker 7 (41:42):
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Speaker 6 (42:12):
We're going to overtime Erica.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
How much have I spent on concessions?
Speaker 10 (42:17):
For questions about their money, Dallas Cowboys fans can turn
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Speaker 5 (42:46):
To Talking Cowboys Back, You're Talking Cowboys.
Speaker 3 (42:56):
This segment has brought to you by and visilining the
official Smile of the Dallas cow Boys. Welcome back into
the show. Patrick Knows so you Walker, Josh Roderiguez, Tommy Ours,
Chris Beam in the back. I'm Kyle Yeoman's wrapping up
this one and only weekly edition of Talking cal.
Speaker 6 (43:09):
Like do you we get to Yeah? Yeah, we fit
it all in one episode.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
It with your chest, you know, yeah, we do get
the cram it all into. But then we got a
wait forty fire week.
Speaker 6 (43:21):
Forty five minutes snapshot.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Yeah, not forty five minutes, don't We're now.
Speaker 6 (43:28):
Yeah, forty five minutes.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
You kidding me?
Speaker 3 (43:30):
I mean the next show that we're on has me
and Tommy on it, so I guess we're just hurting
ourselves at that point. All right, Uh? Priority the Wolves? Yes, Cowboys?
Speaker 1 (43:41):
Wait, baby, what's your.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Priority this offseason? What's the first domino that needs to fall?
And I'm not talking about coach or locol McClay, so
wipe those off the board. We've talked about those enough.
What's the ones thing outside of front office and or
coaching moves that needs to happen?
Speaker 6 (43:56):
Retain George Lewis resigned Geordan Lewis as soon aceptually to steal,
to steal a phrase from my buddy Patrick here. To me,
Jordan Lewis is one of the beating hearts of your defense.
You don't have de Marvin overshown for the foreseeable future,
not until late twenty five, according to the Marvin Overstone.
To me, Jordan Lewis is giving you everything he deserves,
(44:19):
the bag he deserves to be on this team. You
do not want to lose a guy like Jordan Lewis.
To me, that is the guy that will truly get
you where you want it.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
And that's not gonna happen until the league year right
free agency starts, because he's gonna see what.
Speaker 6 (44:33):
And he deserves out there. He deserves to. But just
make him priority.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
You know one way you could keep Jordan Lewis and
Osa Odigi Zuwa. By the way, this is my number one.
Extend Micah and do it quickly. You can leave everything
right now, exceptionally right now. Michael Parsons in his fifth
year option, he said to hit the Cowboys cap for
over twenty one million dollars per over the cap. If
you extend Michael Parsons right now, you not only don't
(45:01):
suffer that twenty one million dollar hit, but you get
sixteen point one million dollars in savings towards your salary cap.
They're going to figure out the coming see but that
hopefully so because right now the Cotton Bowl, at the
Cotton they're gonna they're in the sweet together at the
Cotton Bowl. And Jerry said he and Michael, yes, seriously,
I love it. Get the deal done overs.
Speaker 3 (45:21):
In Ohio state, Hey, get the deal done.
Speaker 5 (45:24):
Both of their schools. Everybody wants to watch Texas.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
It's not Arkansas and it's not Penn States.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
Disagree, Yeah, get the deal done over some nachos by
all means. But currently the Cowboys have seventeen million dollars
in available cap space that will roll over to twenty
twenty five if you get another sixteen million dollars toward
that by extending Michael Parsons. This is money that goes
potentially goes to Osa, potentially goes to Jordan Lewis and
some of the other guys that you want to retain.
You have twenty two unrestricted free agents coming up, and
(45:53):
not just not just Jags, not just the name, these
are these are dogs, Okay, So you want to get
that on Chauncey Ghost and being another name that comes
to mind. So for me, extend Michael Parsons and get
him done right now. And I love what Michael said
in that he doesn't want to be in the way.
Michael wants to get his deal done quickly because he
wants that money to go towards helping to build the team.
Speaker 6 (46:13):
So let's hope his agent feels that way.
Speaker 3 (46:15):
I'm gonna take a moment here and play super duper
Devil's advocate because I do not want this to happen.
I want to preface this, but it has been a conversation.
There was even an NFL Network report about it. Would
you ever consider trading michaeh It have to.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Be the herschel Walker trade. It have to be just
on I want your soul, like if I if I'm
trading Michael Parsons, I want your soul. And if if
that's if that's a non starter for you, don't even
call it. Don't even call me.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
So just play play along here. What would it take?
Speaker 1 (46:49):
What would be what would have to the starter conversation
is two first round picks. Okay, So that's that starts.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
That's not the end.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
That's not the end, okay, because you're gonna throw in
maybe another mid rounder and probably a player of my
picks within reason.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
So okay, So you said no very quickly? Are you
completely out?
Speaker 5 (47:09):
Look a look at look at what happened to this
defense when he came back.
Speaker 1 (47:12):
Oh, I agree. That's why I said, I want your
soul wants us to play along.
Speaker 5 (47:16):
I'm trying to. I'm trying to play Devil's advocates. I'm
not playing at all.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
That's not fair.
Speaker 6 (47:23):
You can't three ones and Patrick Mahomes.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
We'll see. There's nobody with multiple ones this year, at
least at the moment.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
So, I mean, I want your soul, but Cal wants
me to play along. If I'm to play along, that's
my price. But I'm not playing along in real life.
Speaker 3 (47:40):
So yeah, No, Let's say I'm trying to think. I
don't even know who would who would have Lawrence Taylor.
Let's say Jacksonville. Jacksonville is trying to make a statement.
They've already got one edg Rusher and Walker on the
outside that they feel really confident in. They've got a quarterback.
They don't have to have their fifth overall draft pick
(48:01):
this year. Jacksonville comes, they offer you five this year,
they offer you two future first round picks.
Speaker 5 (48:07):
Would you do it?
Speaker 3 (48:09):
Would you think about it? That's three first round picks
and the top five for sure this year, and you
can't current you get to keep twelve too, where you
picked Micah back in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
Okay, my answer is still no, but I haven't hung
up the phone yet either.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
Okay, what about those three first and we'll throw REI
who's their top received? I don't even know, so no,
I'm there, Okay, second receiver, they're not trading him Christian Kirk.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (48:42):
Yeah, they throw in Christian Kirk to a veteran receiver
that you could possibly use.
Speaker 1 (48:46):
No, no, no, okay, I don't like this game anymore.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
I agree. I don't want to just extend him.
Speaker 1 (48:52):
Get the money, use the money in and let's cook.
Speaker 3 (48:54):
Where's your priority, Tommy.
Speaker 5 (48:55):
I think they'd have a good draft when they When
I look back at this past year draft, there's some
good picks there. Cooper BB had a fantastic season. I
like what Marshaw Neeland did when healthy. Marys Lee if
has got a really bright future. Still unclear of what
Tyler Guidon looks like. Yes, still very unclear on what
(49:16):
that looks like. I'd like to see him get a
full training camp in, be fully healthy, and it might
be you know, shuffling him around and seeing if maybe
there's a spot replays better. Bottom line is, I'm a
believer in that you put your best five out there, yes,
regardless of you can't be too strict and assigning certain spots.
You got to have your best five out there. So
I'm looking at a better draft this time around and
(49:39):
seeing if not to again not to say that this
past draft was something you just completely dump away It's
only been one season, and you know, Ryan Flinoy, Nathan Thomas,
Justin Rogers, still Kaylin Carson even still have time around
to develop. He is back, still have time to prove something.
But after these rookie seasons, you know, only three of
(50:00):
your picks really standing out. I think you got to
be better this time, and all with some level of
question mark exactly exactly, which is typical for for for
rookie Harry typical. Again, don't don't take this as me
being overly critical, but I think you got to be
much stronger.
Speaker 3 (50:14):
This time, by the way, Marshaw naland scout pick and
Marris leaf out scout pick. So keep that in mind.
Speaker 1 (50:20):
We all have that conversation for the twenty twenty three
draft class. What was that the twenty twenty three draft class.
I'm interested, not now, but down the road scout picks
his coaching pigs because I class did. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:33):
Yeah, we can talk about that all right, more draft
talk next, right, yeah, exactly, Yeah, day tune. We've got
the Draft Show. First episode will be out if you're
listening to this in post, it'll probably already be out
on Dallas Cowboys dot Com. But we're going to the
Draft Show. Tommy Yursh is going to be on the
Draft Show this year, maybe looking forward to it. Man,
I'm really another member of the Talking Cowboys family. Nick
(50:55):
Harris returns. You've got Brian broad Us, You've got Foch Lombardi, god,
Zach Wolschew, Bobby Belt, We've got the It's basically the
Avengers of Draft Cut. It's gonna be fun, So let's
get it going. We've got the Draft Show coming up.
But that does it for us here on Talking Cowboys,
presented by Black Rifle Coffee. We will be back next Tuesday.
(51:15):
This is our normal time Tuesday at ten am Central
Time for Patrick noc Walker, Josh Rodriguez, Tomyrish, Chris Beam
in the backup Kyle Yoman saying so long with singing
next week on Talking Cowboys. This has been a production
of Dallascowboys dot Com and the Dallas Cowboys Football Club.
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