Discovering Your Next Break in Commercial Photography with Justin Haugen

Episode Transcript
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Justin Haugen (00:00):
If you're going to be in this industry, the next
10 years, you better be bookingGen Z brides.
If you're not booking Gen Zcouples, then you have to think
about like your branding andwhat your approach and strategy
is going to be.
Because I'm looking at what ismy next 10 years going to look
like?
How am I going to solve theseproblems?
So, if you're just having like agreat time with weddings right
now, it could evaporate veryquickly.

Raymond Hatfield (00:24):
Hey, welcome to the beginner photography
podcast.
I'm your host Raymond Hatfield.
And today we're chatting withcommercial photographer Justin
Haugen about how leveling upyour skills can open up the door
for more opportunities for youas a photographer in the future.
But first, you know this, thebeginner photography podcast is
brought to you by CloudSpot.

(00:44):
CloudSpot has everything thatyou need to build a thriving
photography business.
You can impress your clients,deliver a professional
experience, and streamline yourworkflow in just one platform.
It's amazing.
Grab your free forever accountover at deliverphotos.
com today and only upgrade whenyou are ready.
A fun fact, Justin was actuallybeginner photography podcast,

(01:07):
guest number three.
I remember I had reached out tohim after finding some of his
images from an engagementsession that he shared on
Reddit.
After that we became friends onFacebook and keeping up with
him.
Over the years, I've alwaysreally admired his use of light,
and in particular, flash.
He really has this amazingability, I found, to turn like

(01:28):
these ordinary scenes, maybeit's not that exciting, it's a
hallway, it's a, blank wall,into something incredible.
And, uh, It's because he knowshow to use light.
I mean, so well, it's all abouthis use of light.
Now, Justin has recentlytransitioned out of weddings and
is now shooting more corporateand commercial work.
So today we talk about thosesimilarities and differences

(01:51):
when changing your whole focusin photography, as well as tips
for you on how to master yourlighting, even if.
You prefer natural light.
And of course, some strategiesfor getting into the commercial
space and dealing with corporateclients.
So hold on tight, a lot in thisone.
With that, let's go ahead andget on into today's interview

(02:12):
with Justin haugen.
Justin, last time you were on2016, which is crazy to think
about.
You were our third ever guest.
Which I don't know if you wentback and like, listen to the
interview, but it was a longtime ago.
And I feel like we had no ideawhat we were doing.
And I remember I reached out toyou cause I had seen some of
your images on Reddit.

(02:33):
You did like this engagementsession at a, like an arcade or
something like that.
And I was like, these are sogreat because your use of light
was just.
blew me away.
It was something that I hadnever even considered doing and
like taking out the lights andthe modifiers and stuff out to
an engagement session.
So we reached out and you cameon and you delivered, and don't
know if you knew this or not,but your episode is consistently

(02:54):
one of the most downloaded, forthe show.
So congratulations.
Welcome back.

Thanks.
Yeah, you know, it's funny.
I had no idea that I was thethird guest on your show and I
didn't listen to the episodebecause I wanted to wait until
after this was done so I could,Kind of cross reference my
progress and my answers to you.
and during that, time that'spassed.
So I was waiting till after wefinished to take a listen.

call.
Good call.
you know, like photographersdon't like to look at their
first photos.
Cause it's like, Ooh, man, I'velearned so much since then I've
moved.
I felt the exact same way.
So you might feel the same way.
You're going to be like, uh,this was so early on, but,
anyway, welcome back.
Today, I really want to talkabout your progression because
the last time you were on, youwere shooting weddings.
That was your main focus.
And today you've transitioned,but a lot has happened since

(03:40):
2016.
So before we like get into it,get into it, why don't you let
the new listeners of the podcastknow kind of, who you are, where
you got your start inphotography.

so I'm Justin Hogan.
was formerly a wedding andportrait photographer here in
Tucson, Arizona.
my start in photography began.
20 years ago, I was going toschool for graphic design and I
just needed a camera in myhands.
I love to do photo manipulationas a part of my design elements.
And I was always in need of goodphotography.
And you know, I got interestedin photography, like maybe I can

(04:11):
do this.
I can totally hear my daughtercrying in the background asking
for me.
So that's changed in eightyears.
I have a daughter now.
But, uh, she's going to comerunning to the door right now
here.

This is going to be

Hold on one sec.
let me tend to her real quick.
Baby girl.
Hi.
Daddy's on a call right now.
Okay.
Daddy's on a call.
Okay.
I'm going to be, I'll come outhere and play with you later.
Okay.
I get a kiss.
Thank you.
I love you.
Okay.
Feel free to edit that howeveryou want or keep it in.

Hey man.
I was there as well.
how old is she?

he turned two in June.

my gosh.
Two years old.
So much fun.
So, it's funny cause likelistening back to some of the
first episodes, my son wasprobably three when I first
started the podcast he's now 11and like,

Oh, wow.

of the first comments that we would get is
like, Oh, I can, you know, sayhi to the baby back there.
And like, people just lovebabies.
So like, no worries.
That's great.
That's great.
And I heard that you got anotherone

Yeah.
I mean, yeah, I've got a babyboy due in January.
So it's going to get reallyinteresting here pretty soon.

dude, it gets wild.
But, yeah, no problem.
No worries at all.
we left off, you were tellingme, kind of your start in
photography and I'll let youtake back from there.

Yeah.
So, photography was alwayssomething I did as a side
hustle.
Like while I had day jobs, Ispent like every waking hour,
not at my day job working onphotography.
And so, in 2013, I was like, Oh,my fault of my job, from my
former employer and they let mego.
And I used that year to.
well, first cry a lot and thenspend a lot of time, kind of

(05:39):
just coping with the idea oflike, what was I going to make
of my life?
I was just turning 30.
I didn't know what I was goingto be doing for the next 10
years because I didn't have mybachelor's degree.
My work experience is limited tothe print industry and like
cameras and photography was allit was really into.
But I'd already been doingphotography for about 10 years
at this point.
So I had a body of work toPortfolio and I, I got my

(06:01):
website together and I climbed,this is back when you could
actually climb the algorithm onGoogle more organically without
having to buy ads and I got tonumber one, the number one
search result for Tucson weddingphotographers within, by like
January, 2014.
So I was laid off in May 2013.
I got my site going, I built, Iportfolioed like crazy.
I blogged like crazy.

(06:23):
And I started getting inquirieslike crazy like January, of that
year, it's like everyone startedplanning their weddings.
I started booking and that'swhere I started my full time
wedding photography careerbecause I had already been doing
some weddings on the side.
So, that was the birth of mybusiness.
And people would ask, like, youknow, what was your business
plan?
And my business plan was fear.

(06:43):
I didn't know.
How it's going to provide formyself.
I had a, partner at the time whohad a son and we didn't really
have any good plans, like whatwe were going to be doing to try
and keep the bills paid.
So, luckily I figured it outrelatively quick after losing
that job.
And so it's been since 2014, Ikind of consider 2013, May,
2013, the birth of my, business,because that's when I was laid
off and oddly, you know, I didweddings and portraits over the

(07:06):
years.
I probably shot in the ballparkof like 250 to 300 weddings now
and, Around 2019, 2018, Istarted to see my, bookings tail
off.
I'm getting older.
Brides are getting younger, butI wasn't necessarily booking,
Gen Z brides.
And that was becoming a problemfor me.
So I noticed that there was adrop off in my work, but as I

(07:28):
was aging out of that market, Ithink, um, Gen Z brides and that
my biggest accounts and, Theylost a lot of their creative
team.
And I kept, a lot of the,connections that I had there and
ended up with the purchaseorder.
I ended up, going through allthe hoops that it takes to work
with the government, contractor.
and they ended up becoming oneof my accounts.
So now I service a lot of theirphotography needs here in

(07:49):
Arizona.
And sometimes I travel for themas well.
So it's funny, that my formeremployer is now one of my,
biggest employers in a way, andit's, it's a different dynamic
from working for a company toworking with a company.
And I, like things where they'reat on this side of the,
relationship.
so around that time, I waspicking up in that work and
weddings were dropping down andthen COVID hit 2020 and I spent

(08:12):
most that year.
Not, I went from like 65invoices with my client to like
six.

Wow.

I was contemplating a career change.
I thought maybe it was a goodtime to like get a
certification, go back toschool.
I thought maybe I would get intolike it or something cause I,
you know, computer.
So it has always been in mylife.
and hell, I even thought like,man, maybe I'm gonna have to
work at UPS or geek squad orgenius bar or something.
Like I, I didn't have a lot oflike, I don't know what skills I
had, to offer employers,especially without a degree.

(08:41):
Luckily, I got through COVID andthen I had sold my house by
beginning of 2021, I'd sold myhouse of 10 years and I ended up
meeting a woman in Tucson, but Ihad moved to Phoenix for like
all of two months.
I was going to pivot and do adifferent direction with my
photography.
I was going to live with familyand I had some money now after
I'd sold my house.
And.

(09:01):
All the work picked back upafter that first vaccination
rolled out, and I started comingback to Tucson like weekly and
my, girlfriend at the time, shetold me, you know, why don't you
just come live with me and doyour work down here?
And so that's what I did.
And then later that year, wedecided, Hey, why don't we start
a family?
And so we did.
And then, we got married lastyear in October of 2023.
2022.

(09:22):
We bought a house.
I ended up staying here inTucson and, my business picked
up meteorically like after that,so 2021 was a decent year.
2022, I felt a lot of momentum.
I was actually working part timeat, MagMod, doing customer
support for them because I had arelationship as an ambassador
and I know the products verywell.
And so I worked part time withthem while still building back

(09:43):
my photography clientele.
And then 2023, I was workingwith a new client.
They're an exploration miningcompany.
And so with them and Raytheon, Inow had like two major accounts
that I was servicing.
And last year was, the biggestyear of my business.
And then got married and allthis crazy stuff happened.
And now I'm here in 2024.
And I'm kind of at a crossroadsright now.
I was doing great until The lastcouple of months, and I'm very

(10:05):
open about, downturns inbusiness, but I noticed a
downturn and I know part of itis, is some seasonal stuff, and
there is some other work on thehorizon with my two accounts,
but.
I am using this downturn rightnow to, rebrand my website.
Finally, it's still got weddingwork on it and use this time to
shoot some personal projectsand, focus on, the next step for
my business.

(10:25):
So I can really say that I'm aestablished commercial.
photographer.
That's me.
That's the last 10 years.
In a nutshell,

I was gonna, I was thinking, I was like, man,
this is a lot, but if I had todescribe the last 10 years of my
life as well, it would probablybe, quite a bit.
So, a few things I want to goback and touch upon.
One, I guess, let me ask aboutweddings first because, being
able to get to that, you know,first result in Google, as a
wedding photographer, that'slike the elusive spot.
Everybody wants it.

(10:52):
for you, how important was thatfor you?
Like legitimately, and how didyou use it to continue to grow?
As a wedding photographer,

it secured pretty much like 90 percent of my
bookings in the first like 34years of my business going full
time.
So it was the biggest thing Idid was Google.
The time I spent my website wasvery important.
And then I kind of noticed likethere's a drop off and like how
frequently I blog the busier youget, the less time you spend on
the things that got you there.
Which is a mistake.

(11:21):
Yeah, I think if my advice foranyone that's, establishing
their brand and their website,you have to do upkeep on it.
don't get lazy and and notupdate the things that show
people what you're doing.
And especially with the bloggingpart of it, if that's what got
you there with your SEO, keepdoing it.
Keep tagging all your vendors,keep Showing your work.
So that the website was a bigpart of it.

(11:42):
I still think Google is like thenumber one way people start
looking for things.
of course, social media hasrisen meteorically in that time.
I think maybe with Gen Z brides,they're using, Google lesson,
TikTok and Instagram more so Ifelt like that's why I was
leaving the wedding space waswhy I was not getting traction
in the wedding space as muchbecause I was less active on

(12:03):
social media after a period oftime and I feel like your
average Gen Z bride has probablybeen following their favorite
photographer on social media foryears.
and I just wasn't gettingtraction in that space.
So maybe our values aredifferent.
I'm not saying that you can'tbook Gen Z brides.
I know I have I know manyphotographers who are doing just
fine, but I felt a disconnectfor myself, and I saw myself

(12:26):
sliding into a different space.
So I think those are questionsyou have to answer.
like I met with the photographeryesterday, who was, Buying some
gear for me and I, I know he'spretty successful.
He's steadily booked.
And I asked him, Hey, how areyou doing with Gen Z?
Like, have you booked any Gen Zbrides?
And he's doing 30 weddings thisyear.
And he said, he said he's bookednone, which is crazy to me
because, well, I know people aregetting married later now.

(12:48):
However, that's the emergingwedding market.
And that's going to be, youknow, the next, like, I'm a
millennial.
I grew up with millennials.
So it makes sense that that'swho my, base clientele have
been.
but.
If you're going to be in thisindustry, the next 10 years, you
better be booking Gen Z brides.
Cause that's Gen Z.
I always say brides like they'rethe ones who drive the bookings,

(13:09):
but it's couples that you wantto book.
So yeah, you have to figure outthat question.
Like if you're not booking Gen Zcouples, then you have to think
about like your branding andwhat your approach and strategy
is going to be.
Because I'm, I'm looking at whatis my next 10 years going to
look like?
How am I going to solve theseproblems?
So, if you're just having like agreat time with weddings right

(13:31):
now, it could, evaporate veryquickly.

Yeah.
I found, I got out of weddingsfor a similar reason.
It was that the brides stayedthe same age and I just kept
getting older and I had awedding where the couple, I
don't even think there were 20,honestly.
And like, here I am, like, I gotlike a, a seven and a 10 year
old at home.
And I'm just like, can't connectwith these two in the way that I
would to, to be able to captureimages that are truly them.

(13:56):
I really want to be able to,know who they are so that I can
create images again, that are,unique to them as a couple.
And I just was not, you know,Able to do that.
That was one of the reasons whyI got out.
But, let me ask.
So if, for weddings, right, foryou, Google was really
important.
Google was important to get theattention, but there was also
like a hundred other weddingphotographers websites out

(14:17):
there, would you describe yourbody of work compared to, other
wedding photographers in Tucson?
Like, what do you think made youstand out?

I think stylistically I was in a more
darker and cinematic space withmy imagery.
it was very flash driven, whichas I got later into my wedding
career, I stopped, I kind ofpulled back on that.
when I look back on the body ofwork, And it's funny.
I'm very proud of like a lot ofmy wedding work that I see where
I'm a fan that still looks likea standout image to me.

(14:46):
I could throw that into aportfolio today.
I know, and some things haveaged poorly, like my editing
style, which is funny.
It got me a lot of fanfare frompeople who would message me
like, Hey, what are you usingfor your preset?
And I would just show them whatI was doing.
And that style aged poorly, likecrushed white, uh, tone curves
where I was like making blacksinto darker grays and whites
into lighter grays.

(15:07):
So you're losing like a truewhite and black point.
It didn't print well.
I see it now and I'm like, oh,that's like my pastel phase.
And it just felt, it stylisticbut it didn't age well.
It doesn't feel timeless.
It just feels very much like,2015 to 2017 for me.
And so I got away from that.
but yeah, I think my stylewould, I would call it, you
know, I feel like I was coiningdark and moody before that

(15:28):
became like a trend.
and I always did it as a counterto light and airy cause I hated
that, that idea, asstylistically I wasn't into it,
but, The more I shot it and themore I have retrospect to look
back on the work, I kind of feellike maybe I was serving my
personal car creative ego morethan I was serving the needs of

(15:50):
my clients.
Like, yes, people target you fora style.
They see themselves in yourimages, but sometimes I'd go
through all these great lengthsto like do these crazy, like
backlit photos where I'm likethrowing colored shells at a
couple and making it look reallyout there.
And then I would see it later.
And I'd be like, You can't tellwho they are, you know, or, what
is this?
Like, yeah, like this was mycanvas and I was using the light

(16:13):
as my paintbrush, but I didn'tsee them share it in their
social media.
So did they like the photo ordid I just do this to, there's a
lot of clout chasing where otherphotographers on social media
want to impress otherphotographers.
that's exhausting.
And I think like, that's what'sweird about the Instagram space
and social media space forphotographers sharing their work
is it's really for otherphotographers.

(16:34):
it's like not as much, forclients as they, as you would
think, like it really ends upbeing like, you want to impress
your, peers.
I think, like there's somemotivation there.
people aren't being honest withthemselves if they don't, if
they think otherwise.

sure.
So then let me ask, how are youusing social media today since
you've transitioned away fromweddings into more corporate and
commercial work?

I'm not happy with Instagram and as a platform
in terms of how it's nerfed alot of the, algorithms for
engagement.
So where I could share an imageseven years ago and get like 800
likes and, you know, a bunch ofcomments, lots of engagement
that's dwindled.
Now I can share a standout imageand it gets like 50 likes and it
gets like a comment or two.

(17:17):
It's probably somebody that Iknow personally, maybe not even
a photographer.
And yeah, like you like therecognition, you like the
engagement.
but after a while that stoppedmeaning as much to me, which is
hard because I have brandrelationships.
I have, relationships withcompanies that, are invested in
like my reach and how I cancommunicate with an audience.
Meanwhile, Instagram is workingagainst you to nerf that reach,

(17:39):
especially on smaller, smalleraccounts.
But I've seen it happen tobigger accounts too.
So it's just kind of diminishedsome of my will to like
constantly post.
But now that I'm rebranding, Ifeel a spark to.
Show what I've been doing.
Cause there's like a low gap inthe work.
I want to retool the account toshow what I'm, my more
commercial stuff that I'mallowed to share.

(18:01):
And then I don't see it beingintegral in how I can meet, how
I connect with B2B with otherbusinesses.
I'm working on, I'm going to bedoing, undergoing like a
marketing audit once my newwebsite's designed, with a
professional who's going toconsult me.
And she, has very.
Strong ideas about where Ishould be spending my time.
And she's told me that LinkedInis the perfect space for me

(18:21):
because, it is B2B people arethere with the expectation of
interacting with businesses.
You'll encounter like marketingdirectors, HR managers, like the
people that I want to, connectwith in that space and you can,
I can share my work and not, be.
Crushed by an algorithm that'strying to limit and, my reach
because it wants to encourage,commerce and paid, advertising.

Hmm.
So do you think, If you werestill shooting weddings that you
would, do you see any purpose inLinkedIn, or this is morally
just commercial and

This is more B2B.
Yeah, more, more B2B for sure.
This is, a pivot for me.
I've been on LinkedIn, but I'venever really used it.
So, it makes sense to me thatthat's a space where I'd like
to, I need to spend more time.
And if I'm going to, Focus onsocial media.
So I'll still keep, active onInstagram to some degree.
Instagram has become a morepersonal space for me.
Like, when I share stories andstuff, but I think that I'll be

(19:13):
changing that strategy here soonand just trying to show more of
what I'm doing.
Cause like I, now I'm working ona, personal project that is
going to resonate within mycommunity and already has, I
have a strong body of workgoing.
So Instagram is still the spacefor that.

Could you tell me a little bit about this
personal project?

Yeah, so, I've always had it in the mind, like
my favorite space andphotography, like where if I
could just shoot this as mypassion as my career like that,
this is where I'd love to beexclusively is I really love
meeting people and photographingthem in their place of work,
rest or play like I'd love that.
for me.
My strengths are communication,making people feel comfortable

(19:52):
and then getting them to, bevulnerable on camera.
So that for me is just, it'sjust portraiture.
I like studio portraiture.
I, I enjoy it.
I have a respect for the medium,but it's, for me, it's like, I
love seeing how somebody is tiedto a space.
like how, like when they're intheir comfort zone and that's
where I feel like I get the bestresults.
And also, photographically, Irespond well to space.

(20:15):
if I go somewhere, it invokessomething different creatively
no matter where I'm at.
So I started this project.
right now I'm calling it trades.
And it's local trades people in,my community.
So, I've reached out to mypersonal networks.
I've used Reddit and, I'm justcold emailing people with my
Calendly invite to book sessionwith me.
And I did.
I basically spend up to twohours with somebody in their

(20:37):
place of work, and I'mspecifically after trades
people, people who do somethingwith their hands, who run a
business full time, and this istheir primary source of income.
And I've encountered, I'vephotographed a blade, two
bladesmiths so far, people whomake really intricate,
incredible knives.
I've got a floor by our wedding.
My wedding florist is in there.
I've got, a local butcher whojust opened a new location.

(20:59):
I've got, a fabricator artartist friend.
I've got a local bike mechanicwho owns a shop.
Only female bike mechanic in abike store owner in Arizona.
yeah, I've, I've got like morepeople lined up, people who work
in pottery, I've got a, PPFinstaller he does, auto
detailing and, paint protection,film installation.
So I worked in his shop, likeanything, like somebody with

(21:20):
your hands, the weirder, thebetter, like I've got, I've got
a lady who is a femaleVolkswagen, antique Volkswagen
bus mechanic.
And she has another woman whoworks with her.
I'm like, perfect.
Like the, the more obscure andlike crazy, like that's how you
put it, pay the bills.
Like I want to meet you.
And it kind of feels like, youremember Mike Rowe, uh, his, uh,

(21:41):
dirty jobs.
It's kind of my dirty jobs, likeI, but not necessarily dirty,
but like, the florist and, youknow, she was great.
Like she had a beautiful space,but everybody's space invokes
such a different response to mephotographically and how I see
them and how I see them in theirspace.
So it's the ultimate, like,challenge for me to go and shoot

(22:01):
these projects, usually sightunseen in their space.
So I get to respond to, like,what the it.
Environment invokes for mecreatively.
And, I've kind of narrowed in mytools.
Like I'm shooting a lot of this,on my Fuji XT two, it's an older
camera that I've had that, butlike, I just get great stuff out
of it and I like it personallyfor this project because I'm
very slow and measured versuslike I shoot Sony and Tamron,

(22:24):
for my professional work.
But this project kind of hascalled for like a softer, slower
hand.
And, I've got a very.
Particular light dialed in likelighting look dialed in where
I'm using the same modifiers,but, kind of playing with the
ratios of key to fill light.
And so I'm getting thissometimes moody, sometimes a
little brighter, but it's veryintuitive to the scene.
I'm trying to be very subtlewith the lighting and not have

(22:45):
it heavy handed, where the flashis so apparent and I'm just
getting very fun and interestingresults.
And the best part is like, oneof my subjects, she told me
like, everyone loves to tell mehow they hate getting their
picture taken,

time.

yeah, but she, when I showed her some of the
back of the camera, she had amoment where I could tell like
maybe she was getting a littleemotional and she was on the
verge of tears.
she had some tears welling upand I think she had a moment
where she realized maybe she'dbeen hard on herself.
And this was her be kind toyourself moment where she's
like, Oh, like she saw herselfand I got to show her a piece of
herself, through my camera.

(23:19):
and I think.
It resonated with her and, Ilove that moment because I
haven't really had that since Ishot in the wedding space and
being able to just do thattaking somebody's portrait.
a really special feeling to makesomebody feel good about
themselves in pictures becausewe're also very hard on
ourselves about how we look inpictures.
that's been the reward of theproject.

(23:40):
So my goal is that in, I'd liketo get to 50, I'm at like nine
or 10 right now.
I'd like to get to 50, and havethis body of work and maybe look
at self-publishing a small runof books, or do a gallery type
showing where I can involveeverybody who is in the project
and at that we.
like a local community typething where, all the people can

(24:02):
share their businesses and theycan be part of the, you know,
show they can be there for thatpart of the, project, at the
show and because they wereinvolved with the photos.
So that's where I'm

B2B now with commercial and corporate, time
is money.
For you to be taking the time tonot only like research these
makers, but then also just sendout your Calendly link and be
like, yeah, you can just stealtwo hours of my time.
Like I I'll do this for you.
I guess what's the, maybe what'sthe point is the wrong question

(24:39):
here, but Like if we're playingdevil's advocate here, you could
be spending that two hours,reaching out to new businesses
for more, corporate accounts andstuff.
So why, why are you working onthis?

Sure, and I will do that.
Like when the website, my buddyis working on my website right
now.
I got to do my marketing auditand that's, on my roadmap right
now.
But I'm very slow right now.
It started last month and it'sgoing into this month.
I've got some work scheduled outnext month, but yeah, I'm, I'm
in a slow, a slump right now.
and.
I haven't had this since thewedding day, wedding days when I

(25:08):
would have a whole summer offbecause it's 120 degrees here,
110.
And I would basically have tosubsist off of finalized
payments and deposits fromMarch, late May through,
September, pretty much.
So, I'm used to that weatheringthat.
I just haven't experienced it ina while.
So I don't know how to sit on myhands for long.
Like I'm not good at just like,I can't like just kick it on the

(25:30):
couch and scroll my feed or playgames all the time.
Like I have to feel like there'ssome type of measured progress.
So I keep things on my projectboards and, this was just my way
of using the time productively.
This is something I've wanted todo for a while.
I've got a couple of otherprojects that I have in the can
that like I want to, kickaround, but this was, I think
it's going to be better.

(25:50):
It's it ties in line with my,direction on my website because
these are trades that'sbusiness, you know, there's
still the corp, there's still acommercial element to this, even
though it's highly stylizedcompared to what I would do for
my commercial clients.
So I feel like it's.
to be good on a lot of differentfronts.
Like one, it is kind of my, uh,magnum opus.

(26:11):
Like I don't have an artisticstatement piece in my 20 years
of doing this.
I've never done something Iconsidered art.
I've always just done somethingin, photography in service of
others.
And so this is me taking timeto, nurture my creative, needs
because I don't think of myselfas an artist at all.
I think of myself as a.

(26:31):
I've thrown around creativemercenary for hire.
Like, like I'm here fulfillingthe needs of somebody else's
vision.
I work great with creativedirectors because they have
great ideas.
And then once I know the ideas,I know the ceiling and I know
like how high to reach, but I'mnot good at.
coming up with like really coolideas, cut set design, you know,

(26:51):
all the things that make a shootsuccessful.
I'm just like, I'm a more of acog and all that than I am the
driver of it.
So this is my first time in thedriver's seat, but even then I'm
just responding to people whoare already interesting.
Like, I'm not, I'm not creatingthem.
They've already exist, you know?
So, yeah.
I'm more of like an assembler ofpieces, creative pieces, and I
am like a, an originator ofthem.

(27:12):
So

I

I forgot what the question was.

no.
That, that was getting there.
That was getting there.
But, so one thing is, you know,like from going to weddings is
that you have to really be onyour feet.
Sometimes you're takingportraits.
Sometimes you're taking productshots, you're taking all this
stuff.
And as a wedding photographer,you are looked at as like the,
Like you're the professional,you're the hired gun.
I know that you can like takewhatever's in front of you at a

(27:36):
wedding and you have to createsomething with it.
So help me wrap my head around.
is that a similar take to whatyou're doing here?
When you go into say a shop andmeet with one of these makers is
you see their space, you meetthem and you're like, okay,
let's try to build somethinghere.
or is it more than that in yourphotos?

I think what's nice about it is that I'm on
there and I'm on their turf and.
I kind of lean on them to guideme through their process.

yeah,

And it's more of me just being a participant or
being an observer.
And so I get to document, I havethem do some work.
I'm like, Hey, is there aproject you're working on?
Or can we, kind of foe, youknow, Hollywood some work here
and you show me a part of yourprocess.
And.
Usually the process is whatinforms what I'm doing with the
camera, where I want to stand,where I want to light, light

(28:24):
things.
And then once they're disarmedfrom the, proximity of the
camera and all, and thelighting, cause I have like a
six foot umbrella and then a 28inch beauty dish

he's

they're popping off and it's a lot.
So it's, getting peoplecomfortable in their space.
And then once we've done that,we've got some chit chat
underneath our belt.
And we've, talked a lot and Iget a sense of who they are.
Then I can, pop in and, hit someportraits.
And then that really.
is when I get kind of the senseof who they are and, try to,
there's, there's a look I'mafter, uh, for that's kind of

(28:56):
consistent.
And I feel like I'm getting,getting there with people pretty
quickly and two hours isn't alot of time.
It goes by very quickly, but Ithink more of the time spent
talking than it is takingpictures.
I only walk away with maybe like150 frames.

Yeah, I gotcha.
I totally understand So it isstill kind of that same wedding
sense where it's like you throwme into the situation I'm gonna
figure it out and we're gonnamake something something great
here.
So have you had anybody say?
No, or like walk me through thethe the rejection element of it
because I know that people arethinking Well, this sounds super
cool, but it's hard to bevulnerable and

Yeah,

there like that.

I've had, I don't know if it's like rejection so
much as like, sometimes peopledon't even answer.
I've got like 10 emails outright now.
Only like 3 people have replied.
Yes, usually is the response.
had 1 business owner who I heardwith like, and I'm working off
referrals to like, every personI photograph like, hey, who's 1
person you can think of that'sperfect for this project?
Because I need that.

(29:52):
Yeah.
Referral spiral, a snowball thatcould keep happening.
And, one woman who was referredto me, she runs a salon and, I
told her about this project.
She loved my photos, but shesaid, I'm not photogenic.
I can refer you to one of mystylists and I don't know.
Okay.
I had a very visceral reactionto that and I tried and I'm
rereading my response to herbecause it was on social media

(30:13):
and I think maybe I came acrossa little.
Crass, not crass, but like, youcould probably tell my reply was
like a little thirst with her,but I did it in a joking way.
She said, I said to her, I waslike, you know, I didn't start
this project to photographphotogenic people.
I photographed it to likephotograph, I did it to
photograph people who areauthentic, I want to photograph
people in an authentic way, who.

(30:35):
Do something special and makepeople feel good and do things
in their community.
And that's why you wererecommended.
And then I, I jokingly said, ifI wanted to photograph
photogenic people, I would justhire models.
And I think that comment turnedher off and she never replied to
me again, but like that wasn'tthe point.
and my idea of photogenic iscompletely different than a
subject's photogenic, what theythink is photogenic.

of

And that kind of falls back into the line of
like, Be more kind to yourself,like, especially you work in a
beauty, in the beauty industry.
And I've seen photos of her.
She's like a nice looking woman.
and if it's like, you don't likethe project, you can say that
too.
I don't think it was that I justthink she didn't see herself in
it.
And which is fine reading,looking back on it.
I'm like, well, that's fine.
can find probably like 20 othersalon owners, but.
She was recommended to me andthat's where I was trying to, I

(31:16):
don't know why I took itpersonally a little bit, but, I
learned from it, I'll change,it'll change my response in the
future.

Yeah.
Well, there is that, like, as awedding photographer, I mean,
you encounter people everysingle day who are like, Oh, you
know, don't take a photo of me.
Like, I don't like my photobeing taken.
Or every couple who's like, Oh,we don't feel comfortable in
front of the camera and you takeit on.
It's like a personal mission tobe like, I'm going to get one
photo that like you absolutelylove.
So I totally understand that

Yeah.

somebody saying that, let's transition a
bit now into the corporate andcommercial work, because this is
obviously where the business isgoing.
you said that, last year was oneof your biggest years ever.
can you give me some contextthere as far as like maybe what
was the size of your weddingbusiness?
And what does it look like now?

Well, I shot my last wedding, last year, April,
I think I had three weddingsbooks, so I was closing out the
last, I was stopping inquiries,referring them out and then, It
was primarily, the work I hadwith the defense contract
company and then the,exploration mining company,
eclipse at work, like almost twofold.
I had my plate full the wholeyear and, it was my top year.

(32:20):
I had six figure goals for theyear that year, I think I
reached it, I reached it in 2022and then 2023 I was hoping to,
like, stay in that range and Iended up doubling what my,
initial estimate was going to befor the year.
So it was a big year, big yearfor my business.
And so now that I've, I'vereached that.
I don't like to take a stepbackward, which this year feels

(32:41):
like a bit of a step backward,but now my goal is to like, you
know, I need to repeat success.
Like I, need to recapture likewhatever got me into a space.
I need to figure out what thatentails.
And luckily the commercial spaceis I'm in Tucson.
It's like, it's a lot.
Less crowded.
That was the reason I wanted toget into the space is because,

(33:01):
wedding photography is verycrowded.
I run a photo community.
We've got, we just celebrated 10years on Facebook, but we've got
about 4300 members in mostgroups.
Like the way a group runs, youhave.
Maybe like 5 percent of thosepeople are active posters if
you're lucky.
so we have a pretty busy userbase and every time someone
shares a wedding, referral, Hey,I've got a couple that, you

(33:22):
know, this is their budget,blah, blah, blah.
let me know if you're available.
And I see like within an hour,there's like 40 responses.
And I said, how is anyone goingto find my name in that 40 list
of 40 comments?
And why would I want to be in aroom with 40 people trying to
find, trying to get one job?
And, and that was, I think, aeye opening moment for me.

(33:44):
what are you doing to stand outfrom that many people in a room?
Or do you even want to stand outfrom that many people in a room?
and then, commercial shoot, likean industrial, like, I need,
like, you need to shoot a 30foot diameter, basically a metal
tunnel that was welded by thisindustrial fabricator, that can
anyone photograph this, withstudio lights?

(34:05):
And I'm the only person whoreplied.
And then I was like, this iswhere I need to be because this
was one of my biggest jobs ofthe year.
And I was the only person whosaid they could do it.
And I didn't even know if Icould do it.
I mean, I knew I could do it,but like, I hadn't done it
before.
I had no clue of a concept and Igot it and I got, did the work
and it turned out, you know,stand out.
My portfolio.

(34:25):
And then I realized like themore underserved a segment of
the market is, that's where Iwant to be.
So that was why I arrived atthis conclusion that this would
be the space for me.

Why do you think that there's, you mean
specifically in commercialphotography?

there's a higher barrier to entry in terms of
like the know how, the softskills and the hard skills like
to, be in that space.
Like, and it's ageist, but Idon't think a company we would
hire like a high profile for,you know, fortune 500 company is
going to hire 22 year old Justinversus 41 year old Justin.

(35:00):
and that's just.
You know, unless you're doingsomething very exceptional, but
I just think there's a lot ofmaturity that you lack at a
certain age to even get yourfoot into those spaces and have
a seat at those tables.
I still, I'm still immature andI still have a tendency to put
my foot in my mouth or makeinappropriate comments.
I have to like, really reelmyself in.
But, it's a different space.

(35:21):
And, They're photographyencompasses, like, the whole
gamut of the population of whatpeople do, how people are.
So if you're an introvert or youare poor communicator or, you
know, all those things like theyget exposed at a different level
when you're suddenly in a roomwith a creative team, you know,
planning out, you know, Largeproduction shoot.
there isn't a lot of space fordifferent kinds of people.

(35:42):
You have to be measured and youhave to be confident in those
kinds of settings.
And so I think I've reached alevel of confidence in my work
and who I am as a person.
I think I can, I am now like, Ihave a room, there's a room,
there's a seat at the table andthose spaces for me.
And that's where I aim to be.

Hmm.
Let me ask, how did you kind ofget involved with this?
Because like, if we're talkingabout creative directors and
multiple people in marketingteams, and it's like, that seems
like a higher risk compared to awedding, right?
A wedding day, you know, what'sgoing to happen.
You know, that a couple is goingto be happy.
Uh, you know, that there's goingto be a kiss.
You're going to capture that.
You're going to get someportraits done deal, but with a
commercial shoot and more peopleinvolved, and they're needing to

(36:21):
be specific outcome, how do youget into that without even
knowing if that's truly what itis that you want to do

I mean, it didn't happen overnight.
It's, it's a culmination of allmy photography experiences and,
a lot of like saying yes tothings that can you do this?
Like, I don't know how many newskills I've learned just from
like saying that I could dosomething and then having to
research it like recently, itwas, uh, I'm doing a year long
time lapse camera managing threecameras of a construction build.

(36:48):
I've never done that.
But I told the client I could doit and now we're doing it and
now it's going to be a piece ofmy portfolio.
It's literally a service I'mputting on my website now that I
offer.
yeah.
So those skills just, I have toanswer the call whenever, you
know, some of those thingshappen.
Like, am I willing?
is there like enough return onthis if I do it?
Should I learn this skill?
So, yeah, none of this stuffhappens overnight.

(37:10):
You don't just like suddenlywake up and like, Oh yeah, I
think I can lead a creativediscussion with a room full of
creative professionals and, justlike run with it.
Like, no, I, it's been, Littleby little, shoot after shoot,
different types of people,communication styles, yeah,
maybe even wedding, the weddingworld kind of prepped me for
that because I'm, up againstpeople's expectations and needs
from what they expect theirwedding to be and then trying to

(37:32):
like hit a creative mark andalso level of service.
And all of that is, uh, Istransferable to different spaces
of photography.
If you could shoot weddings, youcan do a lot in the photography
space, especially if you're agood communicator.
So I think weddings are new forother work and prepare you for
it.
So I'm seasoned from all thedifferent communication styles.
I actually find now.

(37:53):
I have less touch points withclients, in terms of like follow
through on work afterwards.
Like it's, I do the shoot, I dothe edits.
I have people, I have, processesthat like, I have somebody who
retouches my work if I'munavailable.
if my time is better spent likeon another project, then I have
somebody who can cover thebackend for me.
Like, there's just more processin place, to free me up to be

(38:14):
where I'm most successful, andplay into my strengths.
I've been doing this 20 yearsnow.
So There's confidence in theprocess and you get there over
time.

Yeah.
was about as good as of ananswer as I could have expected,
I guess.
Cause I mean, you're right.
You don't just wake up one dayand it's like, Hey, let's take
on this huge, massive job.
and then you just got to figureit out.
It is, it really, these thingsdo really build over time.
So, let's then talk about kindof the stakes, right?
Because you're being hired toperform a job.
they need assets in some way andyou have to deliver.

(38:46):
so walk me through maybe likeone of your most recent shoots.
Like what was it?
For do you ensure that you getthe photos that they're looking
for and then how do you deliveron that

Yeah.
I'm trying to take my last likebig shoot was across a couple
different states.
it was like a week of travel, intwo different work sites.
And I was actually kind of solooperating on this.
Normally I'd, I'd want to haveassistance with me.
I'd want to have, more.
Of that stuff in place, but Iwork very closely with the
marketing director at thisexploration mining company.
And now we've built a level oftrust where she expects me to

(39:18):
just go and get the results.
So we're developing assets for,a catalog of images.
Asset management system so thatway they can pull up anything
they like right now, our bigfocus is annual review and
report in April that goes out toall the shareholders that
requires a lot of imagerybecause it's, it's massive.
And so we're, you know, we'replanning for that.

(39:40):
And so a lot of the photos Itake go into that and there's a
lot of planning in place interms of like the moving pieces,
but creatively, have a prettygood idea of like what, what's
going to land.
I come from a design background.
I know how to shoot for negativespace, how to make room for
copy, how to, you know, Offerdifferent variations on the
images.
So that way they can use them indifferent ways because of social

(40:01):
media because of print,whatever.
my most recent project probablyisn't the best best example, but
I've worked projects where.
You know, there's creativemeetings in advance.
I probably have a producerlooking out, talent and,
location.
And a lot of that stuff is just,it's up to me to show up with my
assistant, my gear and shoot.
And then we've had a visionboard or a mood board to show

(40:24):
like what kind of images havebeen successful in the past or
what inspires it current shoot.
And, there's all these movingpieces, but I, you know, having
a producer or creative directoron hand is very helpful.
Where when I show up, like Iknow the gear that I'm going to
bring, I know a lot of thesetups I'm going to try out and
then we just shoot through theshot list of the day.
So, that's kind of what a bigproject looks like for me.

so?
With a creative director there,they're gonna see what it is
that you're shooting.
I'm assuming are you shootingtethered?
can they see the images is thatit?
Okay,

If it, if it calls for it, I can slap a
laptop on my, multi cart andthen, I can shoot tethered.
I've got a cable that's up to 30feet long.
So I have more than enough rangeor the cart can come.
With me, if my, if myassistant's rolling it around.
So, yeah, I can, we can imagereview as we shoot.
I can even do with capture one.
I can, if I'm connected to theinternet, I can, it'll live,
gallery generate, and I canshare with somebody remotely

(41:16):
what's going on with the shoot.
So sometimes, you know, thathappens too.
We can actually flag images livewhile we're doing the shoot.

that's got to be extremely helpful I think one
just to have that second set ofeyes to be able to tell you like
yes We got it or no, we need towork on this.
But Can you give me an examplemaybe like of a time where that
wasn't the case you didn't havethe creative director there And
you had to do this on your ownWhat is your?
test to know whether or not youdid a good job.

Usually no feedback is good feedback.
I rarely get feedback on mywork.
it's rare that I get badfeedback, but that happens.
It may, it may never be badfeedback.
It may be just critical of like,Hey, we needed this.
Maybe we missed a mark here.
or we need to consider this nexttime, especially if it's an
ongoing creative relationship,but, yeah, usually no feedback
is like, okay, missionaccomplished.

(42:06):
So, especially with one of myaccounts, I never hear from the
customer ever, ever.
I can't remember.

so

Yeah, I thought.
It is like five years ofshooting.
Maybe I've gotten like three,like, Hey, good job.
Or the feedback is they requestme again for the same job, you
know, next year, or if it's ayearly thing.
So that happens too.

you did it then.
let's take one step further backthough.
You're there, you're on set,you're there capturing the
photos and if you're there solo,what's going on through your
head to tell you like, yes, Igot it.
Or like, Ooh, I don't know aboutthis.

I mean, usually it takes some warmup.
I feel like the first few years,first, like a couple hundred
images, I'm not really feelingit yet.
There's still like learning thepeople learning, responding to
the environment.
but I think, as we progress.
I've shot enough variety thatthere's like, okay, something's
going to work.
And I'm usually too, I'm in myown head about like, what's not
working.
And it's probably, I'm probablyblowing it at a proportion.

(43:00):
it's not as bad as I think itis.
And then when I, get to work theimages in post and I realized
like, okay, there's good stuffhere.
I think just that seed of selfdoubt.
Will pervade itself no matterwhat.
So,

Yes.

my goal has always been shoot enough that
there's something.

Oh, man.

And it usually, when I get the, image called
images called and I get a proofsheet back and they pick so few
and I'm like, wow, I thought wehad more, but they pick so few.
So I realized like, we don'tneed a lot.
Like they're going to pick likeone or two of a set of images.
So.

I'm really glad that you shared that
because I definitely feel thatway when I go out to shoot.
I'm like, I don't know if I gotit.
I don't know what's going onhere.
But, yeah, getting back andsometimes you see those photos,
you, you get that reality check.
You're like, okay, trusted myskills and I think I got it.
and we're good.
So I appreciate that.

Even your worst day, and this is not like a
hubris thing.
Like I'm so good.
It's like, even my worst effortsometimes is going to be better
than some of someone else's besteffort.
Like there's just like disparityin work.
Like people, everybody performsat different levels.
Like I have people whose work Ilook up to in a big way and
their worst day is better thanmy best day.

(44:06):
So there's always like, that youcan always wrestle.
Like I've been doing this longenough.
my results aren't a mistake.
And it's 20, the culmination ofall my effort and knowledge and
experience, and I'm going to getsomething like there's a result
that I'm going to get, andusually the differences, are
maybe not more skill related asthey are, like a difference of

(44:29):
opinion with a someone increative, like, Oh, like, I'm
seeing it this way.
And those are things we canalways communicate our way
through.
Like we can talk our way throughthose problems.
it's rarely like a you didn'tuse the key light at the right
angle or your fill light is toounderexposed.
Like, there's never thatdiscussion.
Like, if there's a look in mind,know how to drive the look to
get there.

(44:50):
So it's usually like more theminutia of like, yeah, What's
not working.

you like, there's still that trash can in
the background.
You should move that like stufflike that.
Yeah.
Boring stuff.
I

Yeah, maybe not more like abstract stuff, like
the vibe or the feel of theimages is off, or maybe the
talent isn't working correctlyfor working with models or, you
know, it's something moreabstract.

I see.
one thing that we don't reallytalk about a lot on the podcast
is gear.
But like, I understand that gearis, important to a degree.
So walk me through, like, what'sin your camera bag when you go
to a commercial shoot?

So it's gotten it now.
It's not camera bag.
It's camera bags and cases.
So there's a lot more gearinvolved, but yeah.
I shoot right now.
My primary body is a Sony a one,their flagship camera.
So I, I shoot with that.
all my lenses are Tamron lenses.
I do most of my work with somecombination of their 17 to 28 F

(45:45):
2.
8.
my Mac daddy lens, which I'mactually doing a post on today
and on social media, is the 35to one 50 F two to 2.
8.
It's like the ultimate, like Igot 35, 35 is like my favorite
vocal length.
And then I love like 85telephoto on.
So like it hits everything Ineed in the lens.
And then, if I'm getting tiredof carrying around too much

(46:06):
lens, I shoot the 28 to 75 F 2.
8 G2 from Tamron as well.
That's like a great, like if Ihad to pick one lens to live
with, comfortably and shoot likethe multitude of work, I can do
everything from 28 to 75 in myspace, I really need.
Much longer, I think after 85like 150 to 200, there isn't a

(46:26):
lot different for me other thanthe amount of reach I'm getting
with the, like the look of thephotos, I think, from 85 on is
very similar.
So.
that's my primary kit right now,for my Sony gear.
And then I shoot, Godox orFlashpoint on Adorama.
I shoot their flashes, theirflash system.
So I've got, you know, awireless transmitter.
and then I've got, I've had likesix or seven of the AD200, the

(46:47):
small little lights that arekind of like the brickish
lights, and then I've got, Andthen I shoot, the 8, 600 pros.
I've got a couple of those andthen the 8, 600, the standard
version.
And then I've got the big, thebig light is there 8, 200 pro.
It's got a battery pack and it'sdouble the output of my six
hundreds.
And that thing I pair with a,Cheetah stand has, their cult 45
long throw reflector and I'velit a mining rig at F a at like

(47:11):
four o'clock in the afternoon onthe shadow side against the sun,
I've lit the entire structurewith the light, maybe like 50
feet away

kidding.

So, like, I can throw serious light with that
flash.
so that's, what I'm primarilyusing for lighting and cameras
and lenses.
And then I use like.
I'm big with think tank bags.
I love their bags.
I've got like their bigproduction studio bag.
That's 50 inches and can fitlight stands and C stands and
all my light and gear.
I use a multi cart to lugeverything out on and, tether my

(47:39):
laptop remotely on location andthrow my stance.
I'm like, I can't live without amulti cart now.
And then a lot of big modifiers,like I'm shooting like 50, 60
inch, umbrellas, big umbrellas.
So the larger, the light, themore polished.
And I shoot with like B flatsand, to do, to fulfill a
negative fill if I want to, orto scrim a light or flag a light

(48:00):
and keep light from hitting.
Spilling where I don't want it.
So a lot of it, a lot of it islike control now to where it,
the light is hitting and whereit's not hitting.
just my modifiers have gone alot bigger compared to when I
shot weddings, it used to bevery small and compact,

So let me ask you, I really appreciate you
sharing all that.
of the hard things for listenersis always.
Okay, that's a lot of gear.
I don't have that kind of cash.
I'm not working professionally.
If you had to start over with,Let's say some sort of entry
level camera body.
would be the first, I don'tknow, two or three things that
you would prioritize?
Purchasing

I guess it depends on the space that
they're shooting in.
I mean, let's say it's weddingsand portraits, I feel like most
people overthink lenses and, youcan get 95 percent of the work
you need with a 35 millimeterand an 85 millimeter or a lens
that encompasses that focalrange.
If you shoot weddings, I've shotlonger lenses.
I shot a hundred weddings with a35 And nothing else, like I

(48:55):
didn't have a ultra wide anglelens.
Like I have had those thingsover time, but if I do like an
audit of like all my images,they're primarily shot at those
two focal lengths, regardless ofwhat, if it was a zoom lens or
if it was those two primes.
So, a couple of fast primes andyou can shoot everything you
can, you could, that canpossibly come your way.
I would start there and then, Iwould definitely encourage

(49:16):
people to get acclimated toflash and even if it's not your
look, you should.
know flash photography, becauseit's going to save you when
there's low light or no light,it's going to give you options
creatively to change theaesthetic of the light and
control harness like light thatisn't there.
And once you have a good handleon lighting, it will.

(49:37):
Inform your use of naturallight, like tenfold.
I do things with natural lightnow that are informed by,
because of how I placed studiolights or flashes around
subjects.
And I'm like, Oh, I'm lookingfor the light in this direction.
Like you become a betterobserver of light because you're
used to moving it around peopleall the time.
And now I think in terms oflike, Oh, like.

(49:58):
The sunlight is bouncing offthis wall, and I'm in a shaded
space.
That's driving the look of mylight.
That's like on the mostrudimentary level, like is
understanding the direction oflight, where it's originating
from and, if it is a soft orhard light, is it, indirect or
direct light, like those things,like I'm aware of all that, like
24 seven, I can't eat a mealwith somebody and not think
about the light, you know, here.

(50:18):
Hitting their face from acrossfrom me.
I think you have to get intoflash on some level.
And then if you decide like, Idon't like a heavy handed flash
look, or I'm not getting theresults, I like, a natural look
is really my thing.
that's okay too.
But I think you should beinformed and not just get there
out of ignorance because you'relike, oh, I don't, I don't like
that look like, okay, but youstill don't understand it and
you're just.

(50:39):
you're using your weakness as,an excuse.

I couldn't agree more.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
Justin, I know that people arelistening and they're thinking,
I kind of want to see some ofJustin's images.
Like, what are we talking abouthere?
Maybe some photos from hispersonal project.
Who knows?
Where can we find out more aboutyou and see some of your images
online?

you can find me at justinhaugen.
com, J U S T I N H A U G E N.
com.
if you catch it in the next likeweek, it's all, eight year old
wedding work, but it should benewly revamped commercial, and
business type photography andmore portraiture, more like,
Creative portraiture, prettysoon.
And then, you can find me atphoto warlock on Instagram and,

(51:22):
trying to get more active onthere, but you can see my body.
Most of my wedding work is stillon there, which is going to get
archived soon.
And then I'll start posting moreregularly by my current,
photography.
I wanted to mention one morething.
I'm sponsored by Tamron TamronAmericas, and I, use their
lenses, so I just wannaencourage people to check'em
out.
'cause I, do a hundred percentof my professional work with
their lenses.

(51:42):
you can find some of my postsabout it on my Instagram.
But, uh, thanks again for havingme on, Raymond.
It's been a good time.

Big thanks to Justin for coming back onto the
podcast.
Let's talk about our biggesttakeaways.
first, the biggest takeaway thatI had really was to learn to
understand light, you know,always being mindful of things
like direction of light, thetype of light, whether it's hard
or soft, direct or indirect,warm or cool when photography is

(52:08):
capturing light, knowing how tosee and use it is what will give
you a huge leg up.
Takeaway number two is to investin versatile gear.
And then learn how to use it.
Justin took the same approach toshooting weddings as I did.
One 35 millimeter lens, one 85millimeter lens.
And that was it, but the onlyway that you can really do that

(52:28):
is to know your gear inside andout.
And the only way to do that isto spend a lot of time with it.
So when you spend time with yourgear, when you know how it works
intimately, you can really dothings that most people wouldn't
even consider.
And that's going to make yourwork stand out and take away.
Number three is to stayadaptable.
Justin was able to get into thecommercial space because he had

(52:50):
extensive knowledge of lightfrom using it.
It's so, so, so.
Many weddings, when you exploreand embrace new skills, the
world of possibility for whereyou can take your camera and
take your photography, it opensup.
It is amazing.
I would love to know yourbiggest takeaway.
I'd love for you to share itwithin our free and amazing

(53:11):
beginner photography podcastcommunity, which you can find
and join right now by headingover to beginner photopod.
com forward slash group.
All right.
That is it for today until nextweek.
Remember the more that you shoottoday, the better of a
photographer you will betomorrow.
Talk soon.

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