Secrets to Photo Business Success with Mary Fisk-Taylor

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mary Fisk Taylor (00:00):
I think a lot of times we think, Oh,

(00:01):
technology makes it easier.
Yes, it does.
But that doesn't mean we shouldsacrifice the experience.
Just because we were using adifferent instrument, a
different tool, a differentmedia, didn't mean that we would
change our process.
I think a lot of times we go,oh, it's online.
So it's fine.
You can be late or you can blowit off.
No, it needed to still feel asrich and amazing.

(00:21):
So when I'm on a zoom call witha client, I'm in a quiet space.
I've got portraits behind me.
I want them to have that samebeautiful experience as if they
were in my space.

Raymond Hatfield (00:32):
Hey, welcome to the beginner photography
podcast.
I'm your host, Raymond Hatfield.
And today we are chatting withfamily portrait photographer and
PPA president, Mary Fisk Taylorabout simple tips for
photographers to earn more moneywith every shoot.
But first, the beginnerphotography podcast, as you
know, is brought to you byCloudSpot.
Sell your photos through prints,products, and of course,

(00:53):
digitals with ease.
Set up a storefront in minutesand start earning more with
every single gallery that youdeliver.
Grab your free forever accountover at deliverphotos.
com and only upgrade when youare ready.
I met today's guest, Mary, forthe first time at imaging USA in
January of 2020, where shepacked an entire conference
room, like a giant conferenceroom.

(01:15):
and when I say packed, like itwas standing room only.
and she was talking about how tobe a successful photography
business owner.
And the whole room wasabsolutely glued to her.
And as you'll hear, she's notonly incredibly knowledgeable
about running a successfulphotography business, but she's
also just one of the most kindand down to earth people that
you'll ever encounter.

(01:36):
Now, this interview wasoriginally recorded in 2021 as
photographers were starting tocome back to business after the
pandemic.
So we talk a lot aboutstrategies that kept
photographers afloat during thepandemic and what they did to
thrive as well.
And everything that she is stilltotally applicable today, so be
listen.
Mary is going to share howcomparing yourself will not only

(01:58):
steal your joy, but also stopall progress that you can make
when learning photography.
She's going to share theinnovative ways that she adapted
her business during the pandemicto not only survive, but again,
actually make a difference.
thrive and make her businessstronger than ever.
And she's going to teach you thepowerful systems like StoryBrand
and ProfitFirst that sheimplemented that made running a

(02:20):
business not only easier thanever before, but again,
stronger.
It's all about building thatfoundation.
And don't forget to join theconversation about this episode,
over in the free beginnerphotography podcast community,
which you can join right nowover at beginnerphotopod.
com forward slash group.
That is it.
Let's go ahead and get on intotoday's interview with Mary
Fisk.

(02:41):
Taylor.
Last time you were on wasepisode 196.
And we talked about kind ofsifting through the noise of
being a photographer being inbusiness.
So for listeners who maybe arenew during this last year, can
you remind us how you got intophotography in the first place?

Yeah, absolutely.
So crazy.
I accidentally ended up here.
I swear by that, but, I, uh, hadanother career and I was getting
married and I hired this awesomewedding photographer and had a
great experience with my bridalportraits.
And, then when my husband and Ihad our daughter she's 25.
So 26 years ago, I looked him upand he had just opened his own

(03:18):
studio and I started bringingAlexandra there and I had taken
the leave for my job.
And, I was really battling onwhether I would go back to my
full time corporate career ornot, because there's a lot of
hours and a lot of work and Ididn't have any flexibility, all
of these things that, I thoughtmaybe working in a small
business would give me, which isa joke, by the way.

(03:39):
Um, I ended up starting helpingout Jamie Hayes, who had a small
studio here in Richmond,Virginia back in 95.
And then I started working withhim just a few days a week.
And the next thing, you know,here I am 26 years later, still
doing this.

When you reached out to Jamie, first of
all, I chatted with Jamie nottoo long ago when I had to call
and reschedule this interviewlast time.
And he was just like the nicestperson I think I've ever talked
to on the phone.
He was, it was so great.
But when you first reached outto him and you're like, Hey, I
got this crazy idea here.
Was that in the capacity oflike, I want the camera, I also
want to shoot or how did thatgo?

I was actually in a sales session with him.
We were at Alexandra's six monthportrait session and I'm like,
Hey, so where are those threemonth portraits?
And he looked at me and helooked like just a super.
He's like, I opened thisbusiness.
I had no idea.
I'm so behind.
Do you know anybody who wouldlike to maybe.
Work part time and I went neatand I didn't mean to say it, but

(04:35):
really honest with you, I wasreally struggling being a stay
at home mom and that's somethingI felt so guilty about and
wouldn't have admitted for many,many years.
I'm fine with it now.
I think people need to hearthat.
It's okay to struggle with that,by the way, dads and moms, both.
So he said, Oh, wow.
And then, so I just started, Iwent back then, of course we
were film, right?
So I was, I'd negatives and puttogether proof books and albums

(04:57):
back the old day, the artleather, the, albums you would
put together with the mats andthe images and file and stuff.
And then I started doing salesand he's like, Oh, just take
over the sales because you'regreat.
And I went to my first event, myfirst imaging USA, and I saw all
these ribbons and necklaces thatpeople were wearing.
And I'm like, Oh, What's that?
And I like shiny new things andI'm a level lover for sure.

(05:20):
And I thought, wow, this isfantastic.
So I started working, shootingat weddings and then next thing
you know, I built my own clientbase, et cetera.
So no, he did not.
He just wanted somebody to like,to just do production is where I
started.

That is too funny.
So when you finally did pick upthe camera, you're like, I like
those metals.
I want some of those.

And I started entering image competition and I
started doing all that stuff.
I always loved photography bythe way.
I didn't realize that Jamie'sthe one who said, Mary, I come
to your house.
You have pictures everywhere.
I had a 35 millimeter camera andI always took pictures.
I was yearbook photographer, allthings, but I never thought I
was an artist.
Or photographer.
And I still struggle with that,to be very honest with you.

(06:00):
I still struggle with that wordartist.
but I do love creating with acamera.
I also love selling andmarketing.
I love all of it.
The business is where I'mobviously stronger.
Jamie's such an amazingphotographer, but I do love it.
And I love the joy of deliveringthose goods to people and
knowing they're going to bringthem so much joy and longevity
and a visual history of theirfamily and things.

I love that.
I can hear it in your voice.
Did you love it as well?
I'm always so interested in thisaspect because I think,
especially for today'sphotographers, where photography
is so readily available with ourcell phones and what not.
and my mom, I always remember,carried around the point and
shoot 35mm camera.
Yeah.
And she always got photos, butthat transition from I'm just
gonna take snapshots to I'mgoing to take photos with

(06:44):
intention is entirely differentmindset.
So for you as a photographerfrom the photography, I guess,
aspect of it, what was probablythe most challenging part for
you to, getting in there to, beable to capture those images?

I think for me, I hope I'm answering your
question.
I think from the get go, it wasreally hard for me to understand
that what I took with the camerawas a sellable product.
That was a mindset I struck as,much of a business person as
I've always been.
I mean, all the things, I thinkfor me to think that what I
created with the camera wassellable and people would buy

(07:18):
was huge.
And that was a mind shift that Ihad to work through and I'll
never forget.
The second wedding I everworked, I was the second
photographer and I wasphotographing black and white.
35 millimeter, kind of aroundthe bend and around the sides
and that type of stuff.
And the couple came in and theyfell in love with one of my
images and they bought back thena 20 by 24 deckle edge, which

(07:40):
was a big product for us.
It was an expensive product.
It was one of our high endproducts.
I mean, they spent back, youknow, we're talking about 19,
96, 97, they spent like 27 or 2,800 on it.

My goodness.

And that was the day that I went, Oh my gosh.
Everything came together for meat that moment.
They loved it.
And then I thought, huh, so youget that feather in your hat.
Right.
And then the next sale and thenext.
So that was the piece that Istruggled with in the beginning
was that what I was creating wasnot just fun snapshots or
whatever, that it was actuallysellable art or sellable work

(08:15):
that people wanted to display intheir homes.
The good news is, is that I wasalready a client, so I already
believed in the value and Ialready believed in the
investment because Jamie, whenhe opened the studio 27 years
ago, I mean, we were chargingback then he was charging.
125 for an eight by 10.
So that was, you know what Imean?

(08:35):
That was a long now granted, Itwas film and it was different.
And actually could charge moreback then in a lot of respects.
but I was already investing init.
So I already got that part.
That wasn't hard for me becauseI was a client first, but the
fact that people bought what Idid was, but I'll never forget
that couple.
I'll never forget the image.
I can't remember what Iphotographed yesterday, but I
remember that like it wasseconds ago.

Of course, of course.
Why do you think so many people,even like yourself, struggle to
kind of overcome that, thatmindset of, Oh, I'm not just
taking a snapshot.
This is something that, Otherssee a lot of value in

Comparison.
They don't say comparison is thethief of joy for no reason.
I do think that especially ourindustry, and because we're such
a visual world right now, you'reonline, you're seeing other,
you're seeing your competitors,your neighbors, other people's
work here and there.
And we're always comparingourselves to other people.
I wish that young, newerphotographers or people coming

(09:31):
in or people that are in andbeen in for decades would stop.
And just, put the blinders on.
I mean, I think we talked aboutthat last time about sifting
through the noise, put thoseblinders on and pick your lane
and just stick with it.
I go out of my way to notcompare my work to others,
because it doesn't matter.
The only thing I need to worryabout is, my phone ringing or is

(09:52):
my inbox full?
As my schedule full are peoplebuying is my bank account have
money in it.
If that's good, then I don'tneed to worry about what is
going on out there because all Ineed to worry about is here.
I think that takes an incredibleamount of discipline that.
A lot of us don't have, becauseespecially the ones that are
really leaning into being Jamiestruggles with this more than

(10:13):
me, because he's, very much anartist and he's always looking
and comparing and checking andI'm like, you can't, it doesn't
matter.
Look at us.
We're hitting our goals.
We're meeting our average sale,our schedules full.
That's what you need to worryabout.
Or it's not.
Let's worry about this.
Let's not worry about what XYZdid down the street.
You know what I mean?

think I'm similar to Jamie in that same
sense of, it's like I alwayswant to do better.
I always wanted to take a betterphoto.
But I think because photographyis so subjective, It's hard to
quantify what's a good image andwhat's a great image, especially
after you've been doing it for along time.
So sometimes it feels like whenyou see something that's just a
little bit new, maybe that youwouldn't have photographed, it
seems like it's groundbreaking.

(10:52):
Like this is something entirelydifferent.
So I'm right there with Jamie.
That's a struggle right there.
But it's hard.
I know today, you're heavilyinvolved with the PPA.
Can you tell us about yourhistory with the PPA and what
your role is today?
Yeah.

great.
So I have been a member of PPAsince 1998.
And I joined my state affiliateand PPA the same time.
I believe in both of thoseorganizations.
My state is my fellowship andyou know, where I kind of cut my
teeth and some of the stuff Istill teach and certainly
practice my business today.
I learned that my very firstlittle guild meeting I went to
in Virginia, PPA was huge for mebecause it's where I met my

(11:28):
mentors.
that have given me so much.
So I've always been incrediblyloyal and, I love image
competition.
So I got involved with that veryearly on.
So that kept me involved andengaged.
And then, years go by and I gotasked to serve on different
committees or groups and thingsand just volunteer.
I got very involved severalyears ago when we had a

(11:49):
charitable arm, we had PPAcharities.
From there I got asked to be onthe board of directors.
So here I am almost at the endof my tenure with that.
I guess I have, this is myeighth year, ninth year on the
board.
I should know that.
And I just can't even think ofit.
I guess about eight years, eightyears.
And, um, I'm currently thepresident of PPA, which has been

(12:12):
an honor and no one's moresurprised than me.
Trust me.
so I'm president this year andthen next year I'll be the chair
and then I'll be done with theboard.
But this year I get to travelaround and talk and share with
lots of different little smallgroups and affiliates as places
where I started, which has beenjust amazing.
I'm so relieved and gratefulthat I get to travel.

(12:32):
So I get to just do all thatcool stuff.
So it's been really awesome.

I can't imagine.
The experiences that you have,and I'm sure talking with the
photographers that you have aswell.
And I think I said this beforewe started recording, but I
don't think that there's anybodywho probably has a better thumb
on the industry as a whole.
As you you're definitely rightthere at the top.
So today, one thing that I knowis on the mind of a lot of
photographers is what are wedoing the situation when the

(13:01):
world kind of shuts down?
How do you move forward?
And I think with a lot of newphotographers, it's very
difficult because you're justgetting started.
And to feel like you have therug ripped out from under you.
I know a lot of photographerswho almost gave up on
photography, because it's like,what's the point there?
And especially when we're beingpushed in the side hustle type
world, when I don't think a lotof people truly do want that.

(13:23):
So from your perspective, howdid your own photography
businesses, change?
What happened to them and whathappened to the industry as a
whole there in the beginning?

Yeah.
So I want to be forwardthinking, but I'll just give a
little brief, history.
Obviously I have two studios ormy main studio is my portrait
studio.
We'd still do some weddings.
And that's the one I startedwith Jamie.
I do have a second studio withmy mom and sister, which is a
volume studio.
Last year, that was pretty muchshut down.
There was schools weren't in.
So there weren't school picturesand all that stuff.
So that's a whole nother beast.
Right.
And that was okay.

(13:53):
Our portrait studio, obviouslyour weddings were done.
Our weddings were justrescheduled or what have you.
That means this year's busierthan I want to be with weddings
and events.
But I'm grateful to have thebusiness.
What I realized immediately whenwe shut down and in Virginia, we
were shut down as non essentialfor three months.
So we were shut down longer thana lot of other, not everywhere,
but we were one of the longer,longer, one shut down than other

(14:16):
states because our governor is adoctor and he took a very
scientific approach to it.
So that was okay.
I realized very quickly that Iscrapped my entire marketing
plan, which I was so proud.
I had all done for the year.
I'm a planner in that respect.
So I realized I needed to findpassive income.
I do a lot of consulting andcoaching with, studios, but I
knew that was not going to be agood fit because people weren't

(14:37):
working, they weren't makingmoney.
And I couldn't imagine trying togo out and sell my coaching.
To people who weren't inbusiness.
That just seemed, that wouldjust felt like I was being very
deaf to the environment.
So I leaned in really hard tothings we could still do at home
as photographers.
And so we worked really hard onpromoting restorations and, what
we call, we have a wallconcierge service that We offer

(14:59):
our clients.
We've always offered thoseservices, but it's not one that
was very forward in mymarketing.
It was kind of one of thosethings.
Like if a client has asked, itwas like, sure, we do that.
So I was able to stay somewhatbusy by doing restorations and
by leaning into the conciergeservice, which by the way, is
just a service we offer where wewill go through all of your

(15:20):
either snapshots, negatives,digital files.
Call them together, organizethem for you digitally, and then
create, a curated wall, maybe agrow.
Some people call it a grow wall,whatever.
So I had a lot of those jobscoming in because a lot of my
clients were still working.
So they were still making money.
They're not like me, right?
They're not sitting there andcan't make money.
They're still making money andthey didn't have anywhere to

(15:42):
spend their money.
And that's what I knew.
My biggest competition isvacation.
But they, couldn't spend money.

So

they had money to spend.
So I was ramping up for that.
So I stayed pretty busy withthat.
Scrapped all my marketing, onlymarketed restorations and the
concierge service.
So I was busy for those monthswhen I knew we were going to
reopen.
It was very important to me thatoffer as frictionless as a
system as possible.
I just wanted to make ourclients feel safe.
I wanted to be safe.

(16:10):
And because at this point we'retalking about early summer, when
we finally reopened.
What we did was we, wentcompletely frictionless with
consultations and sales.
And so the only time we were inperson was for the photography
session itself,

which

the majority of those at that time of year
for us are environmental.
Cause we have a garden in ourstudio.
So it was that we would getonline.
We would do our consultation.
They would walk around theirhome.
We would look at images.
We would talk about investment.
I curated an entire little boxof samples, little tiny
canvases, leather samples,little painted canvases, because

(16:46):
we sell mostly paintings, sothat when we're doing the
consultation and the salessession, they could still hold
and feel and see.
See my products

on

a very miniature scale, but I curated
these really beautiful littleboxes that had a lookbook in it.
And we had little, wrappedsnacks and teas and coffee, just
little things to just try tomake it as personal as possible.
Just as if they were in mystore.
My daughter made all theselittle fresh baked cookie
candles.
Cause one of the things we'reknown for is we bake cookies
every day so they could lightthe candle and smell the

(17:16):
cookies.
And so I tried to bring thatexperience to their home.

Right.

So the cool thing that happened is we ended
up having our best year ever,mostly because I didn't have any
competition.
I did not have vacations.
They weren't going on holiday.
They can't supply chain.
You can't even get newfurniture.
Interior decorators weren'tredesigning the kitchen.
Everything was shut down.

(17:42):
So there was a lot of money lefton the table that I could come
in and scoop up, I think,because we came up with such a
great system that that reallydid help because if you would
ask me a couple of years ago,Oh, just do your sales online.
I would've told you that'llnever work.
They need to be in the camp.
They need to be there.
They need to see the productsthey need to do.
It worked.
It worked very well.

(18:02):
So the good news that came outof that for me was that I
realized I could now offer thissystem to my clients and I was
no longer requiring them to takethree different trips to my
studio that they could choose tojust come one time, be
photographed.
And that was happy to do online,or virtual, Selling and,
consultations.

(18:23):
So that worked really well.
And it's something that we'vecarried over into this year,
even though we're open, we offerit because, you know, there's
always the mom that's like, Igot to get to soccer, I pick the
kids up or I'm in traffic ordad's out, got stuck, you know,
out of town or they're coming infrom 30, 40, 50 miles away.
And I'm asking him to drink thattrip three times.
Nobody has time for that.

(18:43):
Right.

So.

Some of my clients still choose to come in
and do it all in person, whichis great, but we've shifted to a
lot online, which quite franklyand selfishly has worked out
great for me this year.
Cause my travel schedule is sohectic with being president that
I was in Colorado Springs theother day and I hopped online
and did a zoom call and I had anice high five figure sale
online.
In Colorado, you know what Imean?

(19:06):
Just as long as I can be inperson to take the pictures.
So that all worked really wellfor me.
I'm very fortunate that we had abrand that supported it.
I'm very fortunate that I hadthe training and wherewithal to,
make it work.
and it did so coming out ofCOVID it's not been as hard on
maybe our studio, but I'm seeingit across the industry that it

(19:27):
has And, you know, there's a lotof fear.
this happens a lot, I didn'thave a great year now I'm
suffering.
And so now we're fire sailingthings.
We're discounting.
We're trying to just getbusiness in the door, which as
all of us know, if we reallythink about it, that's never a
good thing because what happensis, it doesn't fix anything,
right.
It doesn't fix it in the longrun.

(19:48):
discounts never work, down theroad.
It's for small businesses likeours.
That's how we went through COVIDand that's how we've come out of
COVID with a new sales systemthat quite frankly has been
really, really awesome.
And I think is relevant to thetimes it's better on the
environment.
People aren't out in their cars,all the time.
There's a lot of reasons why Ithink it's a good system.
So it forced us to do somethingthat I think is going to be an

(20:10):
incredibly promising thing forus moving forward.

Sure.
Of course.
It's always been one of thethings that I hear from
photographers and I'll behonest, I mean, myself included
several years ago, which was, Ihear the power of having some
sort of in person consultation,but where do we have these
things?
If you don't have a studiospace, you know, can you just do
it at a Starbucks or whatever,but this idea of just doing it
online.

(20:33):
And I did my first one this lastyear as well.
And it turned out fantastic.
Just being able to chat withthem online.
It worked great.
So now going forward, being ableto do this, do you think that
it's because we just wentthrough the year that we had,
that people are just nownormalized to doing things
online and that's why it'sworking for you?
Or do you think that it's beenthis way the whole time?

I think it normalized zoom.
It made zoom a, requirement now.
Not everybody used to have acomputer or, internet or a cell
phone or now everybody has zoom,right.
It's just to all have zoom orsomething, relevant to zoom.
So yeah, if, when I have an 80year old grandmother hopping
online and hopping on a zoomcall and having that a problem
and all getting on there, thattells you how incredibly useful

(21:12):
it is.
I do think that that's apositive that's coming out of
COVID.
for us.
because it's nice, that you can,still have the business without,
being president, your businessall the time.
for me, it's just been greatthis year because again, my
travel schedule is insane and Iwas a little bit concerned, but
boy, this has made it.
I don't worry.
I mean, I, you know, canschedule a zoom call anytime.

(21:32):
and make it work.
So that definitely has been apositive thing

for those who are listening to you and like,
that's it.
I'm sold.
Like I can do this.
What's maybe like one or twotips that you have just for them
to get started and feelcomfortable with this.

So, The thing is, and this is something when
Jamie and I went digital back in1998, when we first bought our
first digital camera, one of thethings we promised ourselves
when we went from film todigital is we weren't going to
change, the way we did things.
Meaning just because we wereusing a different instrument, a
different tool, a differentmedia, didn't mean that we would
change our process.
What I mean by that is backthen, what that meant to us was

(22:08):
we weren't going to startlearning to retouch.
We weren't going to do our ownprinting.
We weren't going to do all thethings that a lot of digital
photographers thought was soawesome about being digital.
I'm still, I'm using theprofessional lab.
I'm still outsourcing myartwork.
I'm still doing all thosethings, even though I could.
Could do it myself.
I've always valued my time at ahigher rate than what I could
probably pay somebody else to doit.

(22:29):
So if I could pay a researcheror the lab to do it for this,
then I just put that in mycosts.
And I, spend my time visioningmy company, selling marketing.
networking, right?
Same thing with zoom, justbecause it's something new and
different doesn't mean we neededto throw out all the planning
and the solid sales plans we hadfor so many years.
So that's why it was veryimportant to me that we still

(22:51):
were doing the consultation andlooking at the images of the
spaces in the home.
Why I put together, and it's notcheap to put together that box.
I have about, 17 in that box.
So my sale has to, it has towork, right?
Yes.
But I know My photography, Iknow my sales plan that yeah,
that 17 is an expense, but Iknow that if I can't put that

(23:12):
little tiny oil portrait intheir hand or the little
leathers, or if I can't do that,they can't feel and they can't
see it.
So I had to do that, as well.
And then I also still stuckwith, I've always used pro
select.
Uh, I have for, since it was,came around.
I still use pro select.
I'm still putting the images onthe client's wall.
I'm still getting the roomviews.

(23:33):
I'm still treating it as ifwe're in person.
And I'm already, I'm servingthem coffee and cookies.
They're just arriving by courierand not in my space.
I wanted to keep as much of theintegrity of the in person as
possible.
So I think a lot of times we go,Oh, it's online.
So it's fine.
You can be late.
It's fine.
Or you can blow it off or itdoesn't have, no, it needed to

(23:55):
still feel as rich and amazing.
So when I'm on a zoom call witha client, I'm in a quiet space.
I've got portraits behind me.
The dogs aren't going to bark,which they might today, by the
way, cause I'm at home, um, thephone's not ringing, you know, I
want them to have that samebeautiful experience as if they
were in my space.
And I think a lot of times wethink, Oh, technology makes it
easier.

(24:16):
Yes, it does.
But that doesn't mean we shouldsacrifice the experience.

I love that.
That is such a good takeawayright there.
Anybody listening needs to goback and listen to that one, one
more time.
it's so easy to, when you wantto try something new, to
completely try to reinvent theentire wheel and get it to work.
And I will admit that I am veryguilty of that.
So, I appreciate that insightright there.
With the PPA, obviously, you'regeared towards professional

(24:41):
photographers, this past yearthere probably wasn't a lot of,
discussions as far as, streetphotography the art of
photography, but what was kindof the, the PPA's, line to best
help, guide and assistphotographers through,
challenging times where youreally couldn't get, people in
front of your camera?

Well, I can tell you for a fact that PPA and
I'm being on the board andhaving it like a proverbial seat
at the table, so to speak, andthe room where it happens, if
you want to go into Hamiltonhere, but, the thing is, is that
we immediately hopped online andstarted talking about what we
could do for photographers.
PPA is an organization forphotographers run by
photographers with nothing, butwhat we can do for photographers

(25:21):
in mind.
So our goal at PPA is Number oneis to be fiscally responsible.
So we make sure that PPA hasenough money put aside that if
we didn't bring in a dime forthree years, we could survive
and offer every single benefitthat every single member has
been given.
Right.
That's number one is to befiscally responsible with the
money beyond that.
It's what we can do forphotographers.

(25:41):
So I don't know if you're aware,but, PPA, first of all, this
year, Our insurance, which isalready included in your
membership.
All you have to do is opt in andhere's a little word to the
wise.
If you're a PPA member, pleasego to your PPA, my profile page
and make sure you've opted in tothe insurance because legally we
cannot opt you in for the freeinsurance you have to opt

(26:02):
yourself in.
There's no cost, but you do haveto.
Check the box.
Right.
So beyond that, our benefits andthat just went up 10 times.
Now you can either get fullreplacement value for, I think a
350 or 250 deductible.
Do not quote me on that.
I'm terrible with numbers orreplace, or you could get it
repaired for a 50 deductible.
I literally shopped around herein my area and I could not find

(26:26):
anybody close to that.
So for my dues, I get thatinsurance alone is what I'd be
paying if I was paying for myinsurance here.

So

we worried about that.
We had to shift to make sureimaging USA was safe.
So we, spent an incredibleamount of money and a big
investment to have the bestonline event we could possibly
have.

And it was by the way, I agree.

They did an amazing job.
PPA has the best staff andleadership in the world of our
trade association.
It's so beyond that.
But everything we did and talkedabout was what for the members
and even going into this year, Imean, I don't know, imaging USA
in January, we kept that, theregistration is only 59.
We're subsidizing 50 a night foreach hotel room.

(27:06):
And guys, the hotel's not givingus any of that.
Where are we writing them acheck for all of that money?
Because PPA survived COVID verywell.
As a matter of fact, we havemore members than we've ever
had.
We broke 31, 000 members.
earlier in the spring or thesummer.
We wanted to give back.
So we created a, give back toour vendors who've been so great

(27:26):
to the association and we madesure we could make imaging USA
as economical as possible.
So as many people as possiblecould attend.
Everything we do is aboutmembers.
We amped up our education.
We opened the whole platform.
You didn't even have to be amember to get online and study
with PPA, during COVID, which Ithought was amazing.
We wanted to make sure everybodyhad that and we kept our voice

(27:48):
on the Hill on Capitol Hillstrong, even though we couldn't
be there in person, we made surewe were still advocating for
modernization of the copyrightoffice and, copyright reform.
So we just kept on business asusual, just doing it a little
bit different.
And I'm really proud of thisassociation and I'm incredibly
proud to be very small part ofit.

Well, I think you should be.
I mean, I haven't really, been,I guess, in the PPA for any sort
of long history, but it feelslike just in the past few years
that there has been, the type ofchanges that are forward
thinking changes.
You know that I feel like thatchange from film to digital was
very much, focused on thetechnology, and it was very
scary, I think, for a lot ofphotographers.
Whereas today it's we're kind ofback at it right back to work.

(28:30):
We're doing it, and it's time tofigure out how are we going to
make the future the best that itcan be.
And again, I think fromeverything that I've seen come
out of the PPA, it feels likethat's at the forefront, which
is great.
Now I got a question for you, inparticular, which is that you
are a story brand expert, whichis very exciting.
I would love to know, I guess,first of all, for listeners, can

(28:50):
you let us know what story brandis?
But then also because of thispast year, Has your story
changed?

So, yes.
So Donald Miller wrote anamazing book called story brand
and, people get a little bitconfused what story brand even
is, but story, if you read thebook or listen to his podcast,
the whole point of story brandis talking, it's a framework of,
how to run your business.
And the bottom line about storybrand is, is your business
telling a story or invitingpeople into a story loop that is

(29:19):
relevant to them.
And what we know is human beingsare born with two instinct,
attributes.
We are born to survive andthrive.
Right.
So if I'm sitting here and thatbook starts falling off the
shelf behind me, I know to justget out of the way.
I don't even have to think aboutit.
You're going to get out of theway you touch something that's
hot.
You move your hand, survive andthrive, like going back to

(29:41):
caveman.
Dinosaurs coming run, you know,whatever it is.
The other is to conservecalories.
And what I mean by that is notactually.
Food calories, but our brains.
So have you ever been watchingTV or driving and you see a
billboard or a magazine ad,anything like that?
And you start looking at it andyou're like, what are they
selling?
What are they selling?
I have no idea what they'reselling.

(30:01):
Well, what happens to us ashuman beings is if we can't
figure it out, we shut down andmove on.
Unless we're being forced to.
Now in school we're forced tofigure it out or whatever, but
you have like three and a halfseconds to catch someone's
attention or stop the scroll ifwe're online.
so you need to be quick and youneed to be clear and concise and
that's what story brand talksabout.
And it walks us through anentire Framework of, being clear

(30:24):
and concise and having a veryclear message, making sure that
we're not talking aboutourselves too much.
Nobody likes the jackal at thecocktail party.
That's just always running theirmouth, talking about themselves.
We all have that like signal.
Hey, if John catches me, I'mgoing to do this and rescue me.
Cause you don't want to be stuckwith that guy.
If you don't know that guy, youmight be that guy.
So you better check out, no,just kidding.

(30:44):
Um, um, but you know, makingtheir client the hero and making
sure they understand exactlywhat it is you want them to buy
by agitating a pain point.
They may or may not know theyhave, by the way, and how you
can solve it.
So my story brand hasn't changedbecause my story brand is
incredibly the same, regardless.
As a matter of fact, itamplified it.

(31:06):
It turned the volume up on itbecause we went through a year.
Oh, I mean, I was emotional.
We went through a year of peopledying everywhere.
You just couldn't get away fromdeath.
So nothing brings you back tocenter, which for me is my
family.
And for the client I want toserve is family, by the way,

(31:28):
more than that.
9 11 was another time in ourhistory of owning the studio
that brought it home reallyhard.
This was 10 times, 9 11.
It was a hundred times 9 11.
It was global.
So families were clinging toeach other, right?
Well, my pain point is, that youget 18 summers before your
family changes forever.
Those kiddos fly away.

(31:49):
The landscape changes.
Don't miss a moment.
I can freeze time.
I could capture this moment.
I can't stop it.
But I can make sure you don'tlook back and wish you had
captured it.
So I leaned into that harderthan ever, and I will continue
to, by the way.
But if anything, for me, youknow, the, pandemic, it made it
so much more, Oh, wow.

(32:11):
And people weren't as busy.
So people were paying attentionto my marketing more than ever.
And it's getting busier again,and we've been getting right
back to where we were.
I'm back on the hamster wheel,trying to get the message out.
It helped my messaging and itshould have helped all of our
messaging.
And we've been saying, this isthe year of the family portrait,
by the way, every year is theyear of the family portrait.

(32:32):
Um, but really, you know, all ofour marketing really went into
that.
If we've learned anything, timeis precious.
Don't let another moment passbecause you're not promised
tomorrow, you know?
So that's the verbiage that I'musing.
And that's what story brand isfor me.
Now, if I owned a company thatmade, you know, microphones, My
story brand would be different,but my story brand is time is
the pain point and I can't stopit, but I can, capture it.

That's so much more eloquently put, I think
then, because I think every newphotographer is going to say
something of like, I lovecapturing little moments or
whatever, but until.
You do put that weight behindit.
You only got 18 summers.
I mean, yeah, 18 summers, 18

holidays.
love what you just said becauseit's exactly what I love this.
Well, nobody cares what youlove, by the way,

because

it's not about you, by the

way,

it's about them.
Anytime we put I into it, we areliterally taking ourselves and
making ourselves a hero.
Nobody wants that.
We're too busy.
Our job is to guide.
We're Yoda.
We're the Yoda of this movie, ifwe want to call it that.
And that's what Donald Milleralways calls it.
He loves to refer to movies.
He's a big movie fan, but, um,we're the Yoda.
We're just the guide.

(33:38):
We're going to sit back in thebackground and we're going to
let you be the hero.
I always make the mom or the dadfront and center.
Cause God, Good for you formaking this decision.
Good for you for doing this foryour family.
This is all about you.
You made this decision.
Isn't it important, that you dothis and don't say your family
deserve it.
That's what we need to besaying.
Nobody cares what you need.

(33:58):
You'd love to do.
I mean, that sounds mean, butthey don't, you know, people
say, Oh, wow.
I bet you're so leveraged.
Cause you're PPA president andyou've run out.
No, my clients don't even know.

They don't,

care.
They're just trying to get tosoccer and pay the bills and get
their kids haircut.
They're not worried about whatMary Fisk Taylor is doing.
That's for Mary Fisk Taylor.
When I'm representing my studio,it's all about them.
It's not about me.

think that's why you're the expert there.
That's perfect.
That was wonderful.

Yeah, I love it.
I'd love that.
I story brand becoming a storybrand guide and then working
with, profit first and becominga profit first professional were
turning points in my career weremajor turning points in my
career.
And those are things that havesaved our business in a lot of
ways made it.
I don't know if it made it, youknow what it does.
It helps me not work as hard

because I have a,

clearer path to my financials with profit
first, and I have a clearer pathto my marketing and the way I
run my business with storybrand.
It just means I don't have towork as hard.

Yeah.
And who doesn't want that?

We all want that.
We all want that.

So there you go.
If you're listening, pick upstory brand and profit.
First, those are, yeah.
Probably versus one of those.
I can also attest to as well.
That's a wonderful one.
I know that there's stillseveral places in the world
where people are very muchlocked down.
They are not, allowed to leavethe house.
They can't go out.
They can't shoot or anything.
If they are in a professionalcapacity, is this the time that

(35:23):
they, read story brand, is thisthe time that they go through
profit first and just startworking on the business rather
than.
Focusing on getting people infront of the camera right now.
Yeah.

You know, when you can't work in your business,
you need to be working on yourbusiness.
Right.
That's what, I talked about alot, last year, I have a podcast
as well.
So Kira and I talked about it alot on our podcast.
And then I got to partner withRonan Ryle with 3xm.
So.
Solutions.
And we were doing a lot of thinktanks and weekly conversations,
and that was an overarchingtheme.
And honestly, it's one that itshouldn't take a pandemic to

(35:52):
make that happen, but I think itforced people to really work on
their website or really read abook go open those bank accounts
and start profit first becausethey couldn't, I know the money
wasn't coming in and that ishard.
And guys, we were all there bythe way, and it is so hard.
But having some, those thingsalready in place saved my
business.
I do know that a lot ofphotographers that did spend

(36:13):
their time last year, working onthat, setting up the bank
accounts and doing that, thatthis unfortunate second round
that we're now seeing, they'relike, wow, it's so much easier
right now because I actuallyhave profit.
I have money in the bank becauseI profit first, or my, you know,
site's working or I implementedthat passive income resource.
So I'm not out photographing asmuch, but I'm doing more
restorations or I'm doing thisor that.
So I do think that it's been anincredibly helpful piece, you

(36:37):
know?

Sure.
Of course.
Of course.
I know that we're coming to theend of our time here, but let me
ask with a show like thebeginner photography podcast,
there's a lot of photographerswho they love photography as a
hobby and they're looking to thefuture, maybe someday starting a
business.
What advice would you give themto maybe kind of work on now so
that when that time comes, tostart that business, to get that

(36:58):
going, they're just set up, Forthe most success that they can
have.

Okay.
So I already mentioned those twobooks and I, 100%, if I did any
coaching or consulting, I do,which I work with a lot of great
studios across the world, rightnow.
But, tell you what, startingwith profit first in mind and
starting with story brand, it'sa lot easier than, Being an old
dog and learning new tricks,which was totally me.
Right.
But the first book I wouldrecommend them reading, or at
least finding a resource is, andI'll mention the book, but I'll

(37:23):
tell you why is there's a bookby Dr.
Carol Dweck called mindset.
It was originally written forreally for teachers and those in
education, but it's grown intoso much more and mindset was
introduced to me in a point inmy life where I was at a really
low, low.
Coming off one of the best yearsI've ever had, but waking up in
January and feeling like I can'tget out of bed because I just
didn't know if I could startover.
So I was working so hard.

(37:44):
We started business because wethink we're going to have this
financial freedom andflexibility and get to do what
we love.
And I guess one out of threeisn't bad, but there's, the
financial freedom part in theflexibility are really hard to
come by.
So mindset for me was soimportant because it really
taught me that I needed to workhard on a growth mindset.
Versus a fixed mindset.

(38:05):
So a lot of times I see this inour industry, people say.
Well, I can't do that.
I'm not this, not in my town.
I'm not you.
I'm not that good yet.
One day.
Well, that's a very fixedmindset.
So if you're gonna go out and dothis, which is a beautiful thing
to do, owning a business is abeautiful thing, but it
shouldn't be at the cost ofyour, mental health, your

(38:27):
personal relationships.
You start hating the art itselfwhen it becomes that hard.
So please make sure you're inthe right mind space to believe
in yourself and to trustyourself and do not compare
yourself to get overperfectionism.
And know that done is betterthan perfect, because at least
it's done, you know what I mean?
Done is good.
So, I'd rather it be bad thannot, than unfinished, so our

(38:50):
industry is really guilty ofthat.
They'll just put it asidebecause it's not perfect.
Well.
you're the one that's judgingthat your client's going to love
it, you know?
So the mindset piece for me, andmy answer may have been
different through the years, butat this point in my career, 26
years in it's mindset.
If your mind is not there thatyou're going to overcome that
stuff, then just wait until itis, because you really have to
be in a growth mindset in myopinion, to find the true

(39:14):
success in this industry.
And without it, I think it's alot, lot harder and most people
don't get, make it because ofit, you know?

Yeah.
I'm currently putting somethingaside because it's not perfect.
So I'm going to go ahead andread this book.
I'm going to go ahead and buy itand read it.
Of course, I'm going to put thelinks in the show notes as well,
but yeah.
Mary, as always, it is fantasticto talk to you today.
Just the amount of wisdom andjust real life experience that
you have, that you're able toshare with listeners is a very

(39:43):
valuable thing.
And I, I don't take that lightlyand I don't think that the
listeners do as well.
So again, I want to say thankyou so much.
And before I let you go, can youlet listeners know where they
can find out more about youonline?

Yeah.
Awesome.
Well, first of all, thank youfor having me on.
I love being on your podcast.
I love your podcast and I lovethe fact that you have
identified the client you wantto serve, which is the beginner
photographer, and that is soneeded.
So thank you for doing what youdo as well, Raymond.
it's really important.
but yeah, so I maryfisktaylor.
com is my website for mepersonally.
And then I do have a podcast,with Kira Derryberry called get

(40:15):
your shoot together.
So after you listen to this one.
Maybe you check out mine, butthat's where you can get more
Mary Fisk Taylor.
So thanks for

having me.
It is a hoot for sure.
It was so much fun.
Just to hear you guys talk toeach other, just the banter that
you guys have back and forth.
It is so much fun.
It's not just like, here'sphotography, here's how this
works.
mean, it really feels like youguys are best friends and we're
just in the room.
So that's always joy.
but again, Mary, thank you somuch for coming on today and
sharing everything that you did.
I look forward to keeping upwith you in the future and,
seeing what the future hasplanned for you as well.

Well, maybe I'll see you at Imaging USA.

I plan on it.
Absolutely.
Love it.
You better come up

and say, hi, everybody who's listening.
Make sure you say hi.
I like, I can't wait to seeeverybody and give everybody a
big fist bump.

Washington DC.
I always love chatting withMary, such a great conversation
as always.
Let's go ahead and recap what wehave learned so that you can
implement it into your ownphotography practice.
First, focus on individualgoals.
When you stop comparing yourselfto others in this photography
community and concentrate onyour own personal growth, you're

(41:19):
going to create more personalimages and then therefore start
attracting more clients who loveyour work.
Next embrace new tools.
if the pandemic taught usanything, it's that we can
actually adapt pretty quicklywhen needed to.
If we can keep that samemindset, it would be much easier
to start implementing new toolsthat can not only make our lives

(41:40):
easier, but also make ourclients experience better too.
And lastly, implement thosefoundational systems, finding a
system for marketing, such ashow Mary use a story brand to
make her clients, the hero.
of their own journey.
or profit first to ensure thather business is healthy and will
grow even in a bad market.
That's the stuff that you needonce you realize that

(42:02):
photography is so much more thanjust a using a camera.
So I want to hear your biggesttakeaway, honestly, in the free
and amazing beginner photographypodcast community, which you can
join for free right now byheading over to beginner
photopod.
com forward slash group.
That is it for today until nexttime.
Remember the more that you shoottoday, the better of a

(42:23):
photographer you will betomorrow.
Talk soon.

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