Cape Town port disruptions hit fruit exports and SA’s hospitality sector faces skills crisis

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven
oh two. Let's walk this all.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
The Money Show with Stephen Curtis is brought to you
by Absent Corporate and investment banking, balancing economic growth with ecosystems.
That's how they're invested in your story. Ten minutes after six,
good evening, I'm Stephen Curtis. Welcome to the Money Show. Obviously,
we will focus on the currency, We'll focus on gold,
We'll focus on all of the Money Show things that

(00:28):
been sort of keeping a close eye on matters democratic
alliance tonight and extraordinary to see that it does look
like John Cenahyzen is not going to run for a
third term. And you do wonder to yourself what changed?
I mean, six months ago, all expectations were that he
would run for a third term as leader of the
DA and what changed from there? So it would seem

(00:51):
to me the big change did happen with his decision
to ask the President s A. Pausa to remove Deon
George as Minister of Environmental Affairs. And that seems linked
to the reporting in Daily Maverick about his credit card.
It all seems linked to that. I can't see what
else it could have been. Maybe you can maybe it's

(01:13):
foot and mouth, maybe it's something else or maybe And
this does just happen in politics, people decide, actually, I
want to do something else with my life. It does
lead to several questions, and I'll be very interested to
hear your view on this. Do you ever look at
your currency? Look at your bank account? I mean, how
often do we look at cash nowadays? Well most of

(01:33):
us actually all the time. But look at your bank
account and think how much is it really worth? I
wish it'd say dollars or euros or something. Well, actually,
in terms of what you can buy in South Africa
generally speaking, if you're lucky enough to be in the
middle classes, you do all right. And we'll talk a

(01:53):
little bit about that in the moment. The big phrase
is purchasing power parity. Most of us will call it burganomics.
Explain why and how it relates to the all dinner
in a moment. Dresiliers is going to be our guest
on that. He's the currency risk specialist and director at
Treasury One. More problems, it seems in the billing system
in the city of Joebeg And you know you could
take this show back fifteen years and that phrase would

(02:17):
have been true then, But it does sort of shine
a light on much bigger problems we've seen in the city.
Mier Lenni Leni, the municipal governance expert, due to speak
to us in about five minutes on that You'll have
heard conversations about the problems in the Port of Cape
Town over the last couple of months. And I'll never
forget someone just saying on air on The Money Show
on Friday. By the way, as I talked to you,

(02:38):
the wind around the city around the Port of Cape
Town's over one hundred and ten kilometers an hour, Stephen,
Can you imagine being in a crane five stories up
in that wind? And the only thought that I could
have is yes, But now I'm not going to sleep tonight.
We'll actually speak to the CEO of Transmitport Terminals job
On Nandharki after six forty at twenty two seven, and

(02:59):
just talk little bit about the problems that they've been having.
And that takes us to another question, how much stuff,
how much agricultural produce is lost to wastage to be
in Kunja, the agricultural economist we'll talk about that a
little later as well. Good to hear from you this
evening on a double one DOUBA three oh seven two
two one four four six five sixty seven The Lanely Show.

Speaker 3 (03:20):
With Stephen Krutz Live on ninety two point seven and
one O six FM, streaming on the Prime Media Plus.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
NAVE and DStv Channel eight five six News.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
Just a couple of hours ago. Now that the national
minimum wage, and this is a determination that's made by
the Labor Minister, but after various consultations, will now be
above thirty rand an hour for the first time. It's
up five percent. It comes into effect in March. The
idea is that it's CPI, which they've decided was three
and a half percent for the period plus one and

(03:53):
a half percent. So there's a kind of real income
growth if you're on a minimum wage of one and
a half Can you imagine? And I mean, I was
astonished by the one reporter four said that maybe around
five and a half million people are earning the minimum wage.
I mean, that is just the most I mean of

(04:15):
all of the numbers I think I've heard about our economy.
It really just says something because you consider how many
people don't have jobs, and then on top of that,
you've got five and a half million people earning a
minimum wage. Sometimes I try it. I tried desperately not
to think about it, but obviously we must and we should.
I would also just say, do you remember the opposition

(04:35):
to a national minimum wage that it would kill jobs?
And I remember in the UK when they brought it
in there thirty years ago people said the same thing,
and both in terms of our economy and the UK,
and it seems in US states that have a minimum
wage they don't all there isn't much evidence that, in fact,
it stops jobs. So if you were in charge, if

(04:57):
you could, where would you set a national minim wage?
Could our economy cope with above that?

Speaker 4 (05:04):
He rand?

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Much more above that he ran? And bear in mind,
I'm not asking, you know, what is the minimum that
we should accept, because it would be so much higher
than that he ran an hour? But I am asking
what you think, realistically we could do to improve people's lives,
the income they get in their pocket, and make sure
that people aren't sort of priced out of what the
market can afford to pay them. I realize these are

(05:27):
complicated dynamics. Your view seven two seven oh two one
seven oh two seven two.

Speaker 1 (05:34):
Stephen gone x at at Stephen.

Speaker 2 (05:38):
I'm sure from time to time you'll look at the
value of the rands in your bank account and wonder
how much is it really worth. It's one thing to
look at the value of your rand as compared to
the value of the dollar, but for you, that doesn't
rarely mean anything. It doesn't tell you what you can
actually buy compared to what someone living in the United
States or Japan, or Nigeria or Beijing can buy. And historically,

(06:00):
one of the most accurate measures of the true value
of the money in your pocket has come from the
economist newspapers called the Big Mac Index. According to that index,
your rand should be worth nine rounds of the dollar
instead of where it is at the moment, which is
just under sixteen rand. Andre Siliers is the currency risk
specialist and director at Treasury One. Andrew Good Evening. The

(06:22):
reason so many people use the Big Mac index is
because you can get a Big Mac from McDonald's and
so many countries around the world. How accurate do you
think it is truly in terms of value for our currency?

Speaker 5 (06:34):
Good Evening and Good Evening to all the listeners. Stephen,
I think you introduced the show tonight by speaking quite
a bit about the moneymum wage. Now I'm going to
start right there when we speak about the big mac index,
the money man wage in America is not calculated at

(06:56):
an accent rate of nine. It's something it's a number
much higher because at nine, you know, then the person
in America would only get about five hundred dollars and
they wouldn't be able to live on that. So right
there is why the big macs in South Africa is

(07:16):
a lot cheaper compared to what it is in America.
It's because our people earn a lot less than what
people earn in America. So it's costing more to make
that big mac in America than it is in South Africa. Really,
state is much more expensive there than it is in
South Africa. So square meter by square meter, you couldn't

(07:42):
rent the same amount of square meter each in South
Africa in America with what you play in South Africa,
and that contributes incrementally to the cost of making that
big mac, so hence it must be cheaper, and that
exchange rate does not reflect the true picture of how

(08:06):
products are made. And the cost of what is made
on the other side.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
I mean, I would imagine that virtually none of the
five and a half million people who earn a minimum
wage in South Africa have ever had enough money to
buy a big mac. And so what the point is
is that it's only cheaper than to live in South Africa.
Your rand is only sort of a strong currency in
those terms. If you're actually quite rich in South African terms,

(08:33):
if you.

Speaker 5 (08:33):
Fall in the middle class in above, yes, if you're
at the bottom end minimum wage area, as you correctly say,
they're not going to go to McDonald's and get a burger.
There is simply not the money for it. And that
makes a big difference.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Do we see that with other countries on the same index?
Is it generally speaking? Poorer countries that have that are
found that in terms of the way their currency is
expressed in terms of the index is very different to
the way it's expressed in terms of the dollar.

Speaker 6 (09:10):
Figure.

Speaker 5 (09:10):
It to the emerging market world, India, South Africa, Thailand,
all those, then you would find that it sits in
exactly the same situation because the labor there is a big,
very big factor in the cost of manufacturing and we
just have to think for a moment the difference in

(09:33):
what laborer in China is getting and whether a laborer
in South Africa, or in America or in Europe is scatting.
And then you know that that's why goods out of
China is a lot cheaper and can produce be produced
a lot cheaper than it can be produced anywhere else
in the world. And then we see that just take

(09:55):
the cost of a messdes Benz versus one of these
new Chinese cars that comes into the country, and you
see these big differences in manufacturing cost And that's exactly
what we have with the Big Mac Index.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
What does it mean when the value of a currency
on the Big Mac Index is much more accurate to
the value of that currency against the dollar, what does
that tell us about that country as opposed to where
our country is with evaluation for the rand is nine rand,
but in reality at the moment is about sixteen.

Speaker 5 (10:28):
You would most lovely find that one of those of
the country that would fall onto that category would be
also a very much far more developed economy with labor costs,
really state prices, etc. More or less in the same
kind of bracket. Hence, your manufacturing cost is more on

(10:50):
an equal footing, so your GDP per capita would be
at a much higher level and they would be at
a far more or advanced stage of development in terms
of the economies than what emerging markets are andresilias.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Thanks very much, indeed, currency risk specialist and director at
Treasury One something to think about. In the drive through
tonight twenty one minutes after six.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
The Money Show with Steepens on seven O two seven.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
O two more reports today about the problems in the
city of joe Burg money web, saying that parts of
the joe Burg billing system are not working and in fact,
two of the normal challene channels that you could use
to pay your bills you won't be able to make
a payment. You can't pay through the Customer Services center either.
Milani Heleni is a municipal governance expert. Mielani good evening,
Good to chat again. I mean that joe Burg councils

(11:43):
had so many billing problems throughout the years, or remember
all of the problems they had for about a decade
ten years ago. Is there a single root cause as
to why a metro of this size has this kind
of problem? So consistently.

Speaker 6 (12:00):
Well, good evening, Stiven and good evening to the listeners.
And I think it's it's it's a yeah, it's a
big issue for a metro. And I think, you know,
we look at you know metros, you know, in a
different light if you look at particularly the four leading
metros to be able to run systems, to be able
to be dependable to accept you know, revenue, to run

(12:20):
customer services. So if job Back is finding itself in
this unfortunate position, I think it's something that you know
ought to be looked at, you know very well. But
we also understand the history that you know has come through,
or we know the history where Johannesburg has come through,
where it was a number of different municipalities or councils
that had to come together. So it means you must

(12:40):
trace back the steps you know, to when they were
pulling together every other local council.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Into this metro.

Speaker 6 (12:47):
So if the projects as well as the upgrades thats
not gone, well, I think we ought to look at,
you know, what are the platforms that are being used
and are they actually better ways to define road maps
of taking the city of Joback to at least you know,
be credible, stable, and be able to serve with customers
fully with an integrated system.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
I mean to try and go back and sort all
of those problems out. This happened, you know, twenty six
years ago. I mean, it should have been sorted out
by now. I mean, the same thing also affects other councils,
doesn't it.

Speaker 6 (13:21):
Well. I think the issue is that, you know, there
are other councils that have battled with it. I mean,
I'm not going to at least go into because we're
talking about the City of joannes Burg. You know others
that you know I've had you know nine different you
know municipalities or local councils. You can look you know
up north as well, different you know problems, and I
think the issue of integration. So I think for us

(13:41):
it talks about, you know, how the whole issue of
digital migrations. You know that we're done previously, but literally
in terms of you know, how to bring systems into
the age where customers are wanting to be serviced at
the snap, you know, off the fingers, you know, to
be able to have you know, multiple sources says you know.
By what we understand is the issue is the customer

(14:03):
services center. What about the other channels you know, And
this is where perhaps you know other metros as well
as municipalities should be looking to diversify their channels, not
just have a dependency which you know allows customers to
only walk in, but to allow for different you know
platforms that can let the municipality run twenty four hours

(14:24):
as opposed to just you know, one platform. But whatever
the issues are, we believe that you know, the city
of Job must get on top of what the problems
are and they must call on for different you know
experts because if the problem is you know, bigger than
what you know is currently being spoken about, you know,
it needs you know, a huddle in terms of you know,
different you know experts that can support the city to

(14:45):
move into the new age, or to migrate into a
platform which is fully integrated with a good master data
system that you know, at least you know, has the
information of every customer. So and that is what is
expected of anyone who's serving customers today. Where that you
are in the private sector or whether you're in government,
that you know you move you know your systems to

(15:05):
a point where they are even more intuitive and be
able to to deliver the right information and the right
interfaces and the interactions.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
I mean, if you go online now to book a
plane ticket through a South African airline, they are probably
six or seven ways that you could pay for that.
I mean, it's really quite extraordinary how that's changed. Councils
don't seem to have kept up. Is there any particular
reason they can't. I mean, private companies, in my experience
Millennia are quite good at getting the money.

Speaker 6 (15:35):
I owe them absolutely, And I think this is one
of the different projects that we're working with and Diesel
Consulting to be able to have a digital at least
road map for different councils to be able to serve
customers not just from one platform or one channel, but
a multi channel strategy. And this is what you know

(15:56):
municipalities or to adopt. And it's not that you know
municipalities won't be able to reach those stages because all
you need you need a core system which is able
to store the information of all the customers and from
there on, but that system has to be stable, it
has to be credible, it has to have good integrity.
But from there on you're able to plug on multiple channels,

(16:19):
whether it's through telephony, whether it's through a device, whether
it's through an app, and various you know other ways
that you know must be done. And I think that's
the challenge as we also go through the review of
the Local Government white paper to bring municipalities beyond you know,
having to be dependent on having warm bodies, because those
warm bodies at times, you know, there's inefficiencies that may

(16:42):
creep in. There may be you know, vacancies that comes
in and so on. So I think the future for
municipalities ought to look at, you know, how they adopt
technology and much more rapidly because of the various things
that you know, we see with whether it's you know,
the the various native eachannels, whether it's the retail stores
that are coming up. But to adopt you know, technology

(17:04):
that takes it into the next level.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Melanie Heleni, thanks so much the municipal governance expert really appreciated.
Twenty seven after six the money Show, Quena Maloco is
equity research, sales and investment banking at absence CRP Aquena
Ahi the Fascini Group a statement after trading closed the
group their group sales. I think we're up about seven

(17:27):
and a half percent. Is that going to be enough?

Speaker 7 (17:30):
Yeah, Stephen, I mean when you look at it, the
headline is seven and a half percent, but if you
just take out the white stuff, so it's the UK
business that they have, the underlying growth is only two
to three percent, right, So no, I don't think it
will be enough, but it also shows you it's sort
of in line with what we've seen from the other retailers,
right so, except for Pepcorn, Mister Price and True, it's

(17:50):
also had quite weak updates, which still points to the
fact that, you know, on the consumer side of things,
a lot of the retailers aren't sort of making the
numbers they expected to be. But if you have to
look for silver lining in the Fashini numbers, their online platforms.
So the Bash business, at least that channel, you're seeing
online sales up forty percent. So if I had to

(18:11):
find a single word, I'd call it a mixed update
for sure.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
Harmony's production update sort of you know, basically in keeping
with forecasts, and obviously they benefit from gold prices.

Speaker 7 (18:24):
Yes, exactly, So I think the key was how many
as well, It's about the grades that their mind have
been able to get some really really good grades for
the past eighteen months or so, so I think the
market was quite comforted that that's still continuing. And like
you just mentioned, for the period they're reporting, gold prices
are up twenty four percent, so big margins coming through,
big cash coming through, and I think that's what you

(18:46):
saw as well as the overall recovery in pressures metals today.

Speaker 2 (18:49):
I mean m parlor in platinum, I mean a huge
increase in earnings as we've seen from platinum prices, and
obviously that shows you the impact of these higher prices
on our companies and hopefully there's a little bit of
a benefit for everyone in the industry exactly.

Speaker 7 (19:06):
I think we're going to see big, big numbers in
terms of earnings growth for all the platinum companies. For
tera last last few weeks that they were up four
hundred percent, and again just on the metal prices. So
unless something goes horribly wrong in production, you're probably going
to see a lot of the platinum companies announced big numbers.
And you're right, we're going to start seeing some negotiations

(19:28):
come through in the industry and you'll see them maybe
a little bit ahead of CPI, so CE plus type
agreements coming through. Look for the investors, they'll always look
at costs, but I think at these types of prices
that can that can go through quite well.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
A Supergroup had at an update out today as well,
and I was interested in how they've been affected by
what's happening in the British automotive industry. I mean here
we haven't spoken about it much, but that shutdown at
Jaguar Landrover was incredible.

Speaker 7 (19:57):
Exactly, and look we had come in to this. You're
expecting an update for Supergroup because I mean for them,
their core business, the strength of their business should have
benefited from and the rising vehicle sales numbers we've seen
in South Africa. But I think management today is highlighting
that they've taken some very strong choices. Like you mentioned
the UK business, they're shutting down some of those dealerships

(20:19):
and they're mentioning that the environment there is actually quite tepid.
As you've seen for some of the retailers that have
UK exposure in South Africa, the UK has been a
difficult market to navigate for the consumer. They're also looking
at their logistics business and they're getting rid of that.
So I think what you're seeing today for in the
share prices, Investors are probably a bit more comforted that

(20:41):
management are taking the hard decisions now so that this
business going forward is a lot leaner and is focusing
on its core business and that's where the big earnings
is coming through.

Speaker 2 (20:51):
Greena Melocal, thanks so much. Equity Research, sales and investment
banking at abscess CIB just gone six thirty.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
What's an on seven two seven two one seven two.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Well, I had to chuckle corression messages and says, what
about the promos for Big Max the promotions? Does that
affect the Big Mac Index? I literally bought a Big
Mac now for sixty rand. I hope you enjoyed Koreshion.
The usual price is about twenty rand more. Does that
effect the Big Mac index? Is it accurate corression? I imagine? So,

(21:23):
I'm sure they looked at the menu price. You're right
about promotions. I suppose the thing is that you probably
do get promotions in lots of other places too, So
maybe they just screened it out and kind of go
in the normal way. I'm not really sure. So lots
of speculation now that John st and Hazen will announce
tomorrow that he will not stand for a third term
as leader of the DA. That would seem to, on

(21:46):
the face of it, open the door for Jilden hill Lewis,
currently the mayor of Cape Town, to become the leader
of the DA. It might open the door to a
bigger conversation in the DA. Do they stay in the
coalition or not? My own senses that probably they will.
I say that because I think that if people in
the coalition are seen to be involved in growing the
economy and providing hope for people, well, then I think

(22:08):
that people parties will want to stay in the coalition.
And if that is what's going to happen, everyone will
want to be a part of it if they can,
and so it would help the DA to stay in it.
There is an interesting question, though, is that will this
allow a proper debate about economic policy in the DA.
I mean, if you look at their economic policy, it's
not always that different from the economic policies of other people,

(22:32):
particularly the A and C. There's probably more kind of
difference now than they used to be. But even so,
I don't know how different it rarely is, and I
wonder if maybe you know, it's quite a fun thing
I've enjoyed doing it over the years to ask an
A and C politician, how are you going to grow
the economy? That maybe should be the question to whoever
the candidate for DA leader is or even CNAs and

(22:54):
if he does run again, how will you grow the economy?
That would surely be the question your views to seven
O two one seven two in nineteen minutes now to seven.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
The Lanely Show with Stephen crutis live on ninety two
point seven and one six f M streaming on the
Prime Media Plus.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Now and DStv channel eight five six.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Well, it's just gone a quarter to seven the time
and claims from the deciduous fruit industry in the last
couple of days that the problems that Cape Town Harbor
have cost them around three hundred and fifteen million round.
There have been problems there over the last few months.
You may remember one person telling us that on the
Money Show, the port windspeed indicator showed a wind speed
of over one hundred kilometers. Now, can you imagine being

(23:38):
five stories up in a crane and trying to operate
that in that kind of wind speed? Job on. Dharky
is the chief executive of transnit Port terminals Jubble, Good
evening and thanks for your time tonight. What kind of
problems have you had at the Port of Cape Town
over the last few months.

Speaker 8 (23:57):
It's it's been a challenge over the lot a few
months and weeks. If one way to look at the
hours that we have lotted due to extreme weather from
November to Vember to general, we've lost about nine fifteen hours.

(24:17):
If one were to look at the same held in
the previous years, we lost about one under ten seventy
nine hours, So that's in ninety one percent increase in
terms of the hours that we have lost to win.
So that makes it impossible for us then at two
work when they will it is quite high, which have

(24:39):
then impacted our ability to say this better something.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
Okay, But I mean if when does that much of
a problem? And it's been windy and capeed on for
longer than I have been alive, I mean, has it's
become a bigger problem in the last couple of years.
I realized some years are do you have more wind
than others? It was this year extraordinary compared to others.

Speaker 8 (25:00):
That indicate that, I mean, what you're seen in the
first month because this upset for expertses and stuff around
about November. You know you had that ninety one persent increase.
But it's not only the number of hours that we
are seeing, but if the extent you know how extreme
it is, Like you've indicated, we are seeing one hundred

(25:22):
and twenty hours you know of a win speak. So
if it's quite a high and it makes it impossible
to continue with the operations, I think just before the
listeners where they might remember that if the area this
last year we invested in a new artities that allowed

(25:42):
us to be able to operate up to the win
speak of ninety kil and healthy hours. But under the
conditions that we are experiencing, even those new ar cities
will not be able to operate due to the extent
of the daily window that we're experiencing.

Speaker 2 (25:58):
If you have another year like this with so many
hours lost, I mean, it would surely stop the sport
from being viable, or certainly it would stop some industries
at our time sensitive like this particular industry to produce
fruit from ever being able to use you.

Speaker 8 (26:16):
Look, well, we are working very closely with the industry
to look for solutions and to coordinate our efforts. We
also had, you know, the convenient damages that we had
to put in place to ensure that we are able
to get their foot out of South Africa. A casing
point is they have been directions of their themselves to

(26:38):
our tent cap terminals which is the Continaeminal as their
ty entity, which is putt a little Containa Teminal that
has set up quite well. But over and above that,
we are also looking at our our productivity to ensure
that on the days that we have a tier, whether

(27:00):
we are able to ramp up our productivity quite closically
to make up for the time that is lost and
some of the initiative. We have a weekly update with
the inductry. We get the input from them and we
also share our planth with them. Everywhere we are also
working at closely. Will do the container use a forum,

(27:22):
if a new forum that they are representing the container,
et cetera. It's like we've got other forums that are
present at different commodities. They are also in the process
of organizing a workshop or coordinating a workshop. Two together,
we keep it in not with benchmark the best practices
globally to how are the terminals that are in a

(27:45):
similar environment like ours fending the good conditions.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
I don't know much about ports, but doos your port
twenty four hours if the wind drops and winds and
coastal cities often sort of goes through a phase early
in the morning, late at night where it does stop
briefly because the wind pattern changes. As I understand, it's
to do with the temperature of the ground, the temperature
of the sea. Are you able to take advantage of
lulls in the wind in the middle of the night

(28:12):
if you need it to.

Speaker 8 (28:15):
No, we are meant to operate a twenty four seven
so any and the predictability that you will get from
there a weather sty together and it's here it's quite
acurat so able to credit what windows you will have
where we can be able to open uh the camino

(28:37):
and continue to get operations. And then we got ourselves
up to operating chilling windows as well.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Is there anything you're able to do over the course
of the next year or so to improve your efficiency.
You'll get more equipment. You can use the cranes up
to ninety in winds of up to ninety kilometers an
how I appreciate it's asking too much to humans, frankly
to go into anything higher than anything higher than that.
But do you think there will be a day when
you'll be able to somehow be able to keep operating

(29:09):
or double Is it going to be better And I
hate to say this, but is it going to be
better for TRANSNITTT to spend the money on upgrading ports
nearby that are not quite as exposed to the wind,
improving a rail network to that port and doing it
that way rather than trying to keep making this port
work because you're always going to have wind there.

Speaker 8 (29:31):
No, we have invested quite in this spot and then
we do about than the technology that going in in
the equipment. By doing that and is going to act communicator,
they win. We are in the process of I mean,
we've done an investment on the land side and now

(29:51):
we are anerting the replacement of the creed because of
why we have a new equipment on and then side
we still have all the claims on on on the
water side, so we want to see that astake. Once
we do have a newer claim, then it makes it

(30:12):
comfortable to start looking at the remote operation. In other ways,
we take the operator you know, of the the the
machine and then we are able to operator remotely, especially
when it is highway because it can be quite a
challenging or the operator actually up there under these conditions.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Jabuon Dharky, thanks so much, Chief executive of transmit Port
Terminals Tabilla and Kunjas and agricultural economists listening to that
to be the good evening. I mean, when a port
is closed for so many hours during a particular export season,
particularly for desiduous fruit, the clock is sticking. Our farmers
must lose a.

Speaker 6 (30:53):
Fortune, certainly, Stephen. You know, we in a year where
there's estimates that there's a lot of demand for some
of the diigitious foots, of which other affaire is a
key player for them. So when we are having situations
like these delays and you know and the challenges the
parts the key polds that you know, a lot of

(31:14):
our foods go to the world with, it really does
pose a sarah threat to the farmers and the other
businesses that are involved, bious expert us, the logest companies
and everyone that is involved, you know, the supply chain
of those foods towards the point and then of course
to the world. And as we stand now, we are
really facing some service issues financially for those performers, as

(31:36):
it has been reported by them key stakeholders, the likes
of Hort Crow, who have been doing vocal about it
since you know, last year December to actually last week.
As now we're still talking about that.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
I mean, I presume the amount they're talking about two
hundred and fifty million round might be more. I mean
that's is that higher than the usual amount that we
lose due to problems getting our produce out of our pots.

Speaker 6 (32:03):
I mean, for for now st it's a continuing thing, right,
so we cannot really say. But if you are to
compare to the previous time there was a parrot where
the sits itself, he is estimated that he has from
billion on on these delays. So a travel and fifty
might look small, but I can tell you that that
number was going to increase given the fact that you know,
even the adult thing of these products to other parts

(32:25):
there on its own, it is adding to the cost
of the transportation costs of itself. So we me when
when the travel refilt was coming out, it was something
that was happening then. But I can as show you
that that number has changed. But to answer a question,
there has been some cost that I amounted to a
billion first trust and this is something that even if

(32:46):
it's not get to be addressed, it can amount to
that or even more depending on how long it gets
to be a passisting and then how long do they colleagues,
you know, try to resolve the situation because it's a
problem that continues to be you know, impending the industry,
governments global.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
To the amount of farm produce, the amount of you know,
crops that we lose every year.

Speaker 4 (33:12):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
I'm sure it was made a lot more difficult during
the load shedding era because it's just so hard to
keep things cold. Has there been a difference? Has there
been an improvement? Are we wasting less food since load
shedding ended?

Speaker 6 (33:26):
You know, you know, that's a an important question which
can be very complex Stiven.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Yeah, sure, there's so many factors.

Speaker 6 (33:34):
Yeah, because I mean if you had to look specifically
to the a literacy, which was a leading effect that
then there's been some serious improvement into it, especially into
the you know, the around the areas of the you know,
the storage is across the you know the country. But
the reality is it is not really that one fact
that you know, gets to be that the government sense,

(33:55):
if you had to take get the products that gets
to their own in the first four you know what
I'm saying, there's a lot of money that gets to
be lost in then. But then again it's a different
you know, it's different to what the electricity cause would
be compared to the really sales and the lower demand respectial.
Some of the those who are talking about first for
you see stuff that for instance, if we lose you know,

(34:17):
on you know, their possibility including meat and and softwath.
But generally I cannot really you know, say now we
are we know we had a better we're better off.
But I think the fact that at least the electricity one,
the issue that was the key one, seems to be
getting better with time, and we hope things are going
to get better, but in reality wastedge of food remains

(34:40):
an issue. And unfortunately that's not something that is unique
to South Africa, but just that we really to keep
up with the world in terms of how they're dealing
with it, and that will really benefit for the Africans,
of course, the countract that are really in connected with
the South African you know.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Cept I mean the thing is at a time when
we're producing quite nicely, you Learnina, and thank you for farmers.
You really don't want to waste the moment. You don't
get the moment back.

Speaker 6 (35:06):
Yeah, certainly, you know, we should be taking advantage of
those crops to even remember that we are coming from
some of the draft that really impacted negatively that the farmers.
So when they year like this, you know it has
been a recover a kind of a year. So when
you have more products and we are able to sell them,
it helps you, you know, as a farmer, to get
more of what you have you been putting in the

(35:27):
privacy of recover in a way. So when you have
issues like you know, the current ones and some things
that they're talking about the cause delays and so forth,
it really does, you know, really get into you. Which
is why you know, I've seen even the you know,
some organizations they are thinking of alternately the fire is
going legally because of the the cost that they have

(35:47):
been in cared. And also remember these are businesses people
borrow large manners, you know, from the banks to continue
their business. And when and when these things happen, then
they really have got us inplications more there.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Tabila and Kunjab, Thank you so much, Agricultural economist.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
And now The Money Show with Stephen credits on seven
oh two. Let's walk little.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
The Money Show with Stephen Crutus is brought to you
by ABS of Corporate and Investment banking, balancing economic growth
with ecosystems. That's how they're invested in your story. Seven
minutes after seven plenty to come in the next little
while all rottend to and Dingrey he's already here. We're
preparing to update you on what's been happening on our continent.

(36:33):
We will talk about and I don't know if you've
come across this, but the kind of stress level of
being involved in running hotels or hospitality generally, and there's
a kind of film image of them as kind of stressed,
kind of doing things quickly, getting stuff done. I think,
and I can't give you evidence for this, but I
wonder sometimes if we as South Africans are quite difficult customers.

(36:57):
Sometimes I think maybe we're not difficulty enough though, because
sometimes I think maybe we put up with stuff that
you know, someone else wouldn't put up with. Not really
shortcut difference from person to person, But where would you
put the job of being a hotel in terms of
yours running a hotel in terms of your stress level,
I would think the complete nutter, face to face with
customers all the time, that must make it quite difficult.

(37:20):
And I've arrived at hotels late at night and found
myself dealing with someone who it's not that they're not equipped,
it's that they haven't been given the power to deal
with it. And that's really the problem is. You know,
you can see that it's very difficult for them to
phone the manager or whoever. And I always think that's
the hotel's fault, not theirs. But I wonder just the

(37:41):
idea of running a hotel. But you'll check in with
the sort of hotel industry. Anton Gillis is the sea
of the hospitality asset management company. Looking forward to that.
And then John Minique from of Mutual is going to
be with you in personal finance this evening. Instead of
financial education, they're in for Warren Ingram this evening and
basically about how to change your habits. I think that's
going to be an important conversation. Good to have you along.

(38:03):
It's nine minutes now after seven The Lanly.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
Show with Stephen Krutz Live on ninety two point seven
and one six FM streaming on the Prime Media.

Speaker 1 (38:13):
Plus NAP and DStv channel eight five six.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
News Today about Southern Sun and one of their partners, Pereto,
I think is how you pronounce it that they seem
to be buying into the Santon Convention Center and the
Santin Towers. They're spending a billion rand that have a
controlling interest in those two operations, and I don't. I
haven't been to the strangely, to the Santon Convention Center,

(38:37):
I think nearly as often as I've been to the
Cape Town International Convention Center. I couldn't tell you why
that is. Maybe I get invited to Cape Town more often.
But I'd sort of like to compare the two convention centers,
and the first and most obvious point to make is
the areas around them and Cape Town being right there,
kind of the tourism meccha, if I can call it that,

(38:59):
all of those things. It's been made very safe, and
I think it's an area where people would like to
come out of a conference and they'll want to spend
time there, or they'll maybe spend you know, fifty round
on an uber go and you'll get to the waterfront
and you're there very very quickly. In Santinai, it's a
different vibe, especially in the middle of winter where it
gets dark quite early. I think people come out of

(39:20):
the convention center and they want to go. And one
of the things about that is it also means that
there's no real place to just chill, you know, get
a coffee, whatever. And I sometimes wonder if maybe the
Santon Convention Center is missing a trick there. I realize
you can sort of walk around the block too, in
the corner, and there are plenty of places if you
go to that little node around the hard train station

(39:42):
in Santain. I was actually surprised when someone told me
the Santon Convention Center, from what I understand, might charge
a bit more to host an event than the Cape
Town one. I wasn't sure if that was the case.
You need to get to the bottom of that and
find out if that's true. But you might well have
some insights. Oh seven two seven two one seven two
eleven minute after Sam.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
The Money Show on seven OS Monday till Friday, fixed
to APM.

Speaker 2 (40:06):
I must confess I have moments where I sort of
look at my day and think, oh, that was stressful.
And then you can go into a hotel or you
can speak to a manager, then you can see how
stress their lives must be. I mean, the customer believes
they're always right, so many different things can go wrong.
And I wasn't entirely surprised to see the Hospitality Asset
Management Company saying they've done a big survey. They've done

(40:29):
a deep dive into our tourne industry. They say they
found forty two percent of people who manage hotels express
stress symptoms on a daily basis. And on Gillis is
the CEO of the Hospitality Asset Management Company, and on
good evening, good to chat to you. What's making our
hotel managers so stress? What problems are they facing?

Speaker 4 (40:47):
Steven?

Speaker 9 (40:47):
I wish I knew all the answers for that, But
I think if you started why you become a hotel manager,
I think the generation of today's long forgotten what it
took to rise up the ladder, and they just into
management position.

Speaker 4 (41:02):
So I default, they've got very little experience to draw
back on.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
So people moving up the latter too quickly. I mean
there was a time. There are a few hotel dramas
I've read there was a movie called there was a
book called Hotel by Alfa Haiti back in the north
of the fifties, and the idea was you did work
your way up. You know, by the time you got
to become a manager, you would have been a waiter
in the restaurant, a barman in the bar. You might
have done some of the cleaning or had a very
close understanding of it.

Speaker 4 (41:28):
That doesn't happen anymore, unfortunately not.

Speaker 9 (41:30):
Steven our Hamak report went on to show that the
youth of today are just simply not choosing this industry
as a vacation. They're choosing it as a means to
an end or as a stepping stone. We lost a
fortune of talent, particularly in South Africa during in post COVID,
and only now are we starting to really feel that
is that different to other places. I mean, on young

(41:51):
people the same everywhere, and maybe the difference here is
that our unemployment levels are so high that people will
take the job and I can understand why, but if
something better comes along, they'll go there.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Very true.

Speaker 9 (42:02):
If I think back to when I started in the industry,
I wouldn't dream of a promotion until it was given
to me or surprised upon me. But today it's almost
the starting point that I'd only join your company if
I can be a manager. You have the complexity of
AI entering the workplace, so a lot of mid level
skills are being replaced very quickly and over time.

Speaker 4 (42:24):
I think this is really going to hurt us.

Speaker 9 (42:27):
We like to think as hospitality as a high touch environment,
and of course there's also need for high tech.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
Excuse me, I'm sure some people might get in touch
and say, well, actually, the industry is very demanding. It
doesn't treat people as well as other industries do. I
think we will.

Speaker 4 (42:45):
We fight for every rand we earn.

Speaker 9 (42:46):
In the hospitality there's an increase in demand, particularly within
the South African sector post COVID, but equally a massive
increase in supply, so room nights are very competitive. Unfortunately,
the report goes on to show that there hasn't been
significant rate growth and all of that just compounds operational
stress on hoteliers.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
Red tape also seems to be a major issue. I mean,
from time to time I've arrived at a hotel, as
I say, quite late at night and someone says you
need to fill in this form for government or we
need this number, and I'm like, really, I mean, no
one else wants it. I mean, is that one of
the problems. Do you find that red tape is a
bit of an issue, Stephen?

Speaker 9 (43:27):
The Hamak report does cite twenty nine percent increase in
red tape. Truth be told, there's a lot of technology
to capture the data and most hotel operating systems do
cater for that. I think the red tape comes in
with visa challenges. We still don't have the visa solution
working within the airports. I left South Africa today the

(43:48):
eGates weren't working in gay Town, so we're lagging behind
on fundamental infrastructure with technology.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
I mean, I presume that a lot of that could
be reduced and that would make a major diference to you.
I mean, do you think there's any appetite on the
part of government to do it.

Speaker 9 (44:04):
The press has exploded over the last two weeks of
something we've known for a while in the industry, and
that's the total failure of South African tourism fedhaser SATs.
All our large industry bodies have failed the industry miserably,
and the private sector is now coming together to try
salvage what's left, regroup, rethink, and hopefully reframe. I mean

(44:28):
you made such an interesting point that great growth hasn't grown.
We saw in November very high occupancy rates in Hoar Tang.
The reasons for that the B twenty, the G twenty, etc.
Is there any hope.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
That demand eventually will grow and that will then increase
the amount that you can change berum and that should
make so many other things easier In.

Speaker 9 (44:49):
The ideal world, we'd love to welcome back some markets
that haven't returned post COVID, predominantly the Chinese market, the
Indian market, the Brazil market, the British market. That all contributes.
But essentially, if you look at Caton as a city, yes,
this week is mining in Daba and the rates are
a bit high, but typically you could stay in Katon

(45:12):
for about one hundred and fifty dollars a night for
four star property. That same property in New York or
London would be north of six hundred US dollars a night.
The operating costs are much the same, so it's not
all equal.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Is there? Nature of how a hotel industry. Obviously the
costing is different, but is it very different to what
happens in other places. Is the experience of working in
a hotel very different to what it would be in
other places. I mean, yes, the metrics and the currencies
are different. Are our customers more or less demanding? Is
anything in specific that makes South Africa maybe a tougher

(45:52):
place to work than other places?

Speaker 4 (45:54):
No, I don't think so.

Speaker 9 (45:57):
We learn at hotel school guests is not always right,
but they're always the guest and I think that's universal
for global countries hotels. I think what it comes down
to is the room is costing a lot of money
for the average traveler and they want one hundred percent
in return for that. Anything less than that is unacceptable

(46:19):
and rightly so most of the time.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
And John gillis thanks very much, indeed SEO of a
hospitality asset management company. Yeah, your thoughts on that, I
mean often I think when we when many people travel
to a hotel, they're keen to have a good time,
they're keen to rest. That's very important. I sometimes find
some hotels just too sort of fancy, they try too hard,
but that's a deck or issue and I'm no experts

(46:44):
on that. I don't know if you find that some hotels.
You can see the staff are actually run off their
feet and that's not RESTful for you. Any ideas on
how to change the gearing? Oh seven two seven two
one seven two.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Your money show business focus twenty minutes after seven Now
the time doctor Rutendo and Dingley founding director of Tribe Africa,
Advisory author of the book.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Rumble in the Jungle Reloaded Houses. Routendo, Madagascar. This is
so interesting. There's been I didn't realize this, but there's
been a ban on mining for sixteen years and that's
finally being lifted.

Speaker 10 (47:20):
Yeah, sixteen years, Stephen. And the backlog of permits that
actually have been impacted there's been one thousand, six hundred
for sixteen years, so it's it's a coincidence of number lines.
But they've lifted that moraitarium except on gold. And the
reason why is that they're still a bit concerned with
the with the with the porous nature of gold. Believe

(47:41):
it or not, gold mining has only dearly thirteen cages
of gold over that period of time, so in one year,
so you can just realize the challenge there. But going
back on the moraitarium that has been lifted, it allows
for nickel, cobalt, which obviously are quite key for the
ev industry. And it's also Madagascar trying to versify its

(48:01):
partnership and trying to move away just on relying on
the Western allies. So for a decade long Maraitarium has
been has limited all of these things, and the main
drive behind it, obviously the guy who's leading the country
now is Connel Michael and I always trying to get
this name right. Randa near Rihanna, who's obviously trying to
make impactful things. The key investors who want to participate

(48:24):
with regards to taking advantage of these besides the West
is Thailand and also the other sectors or minerals that
have been looked at, Stephen are called titanium and zirconium.

Speaker 4 (48:35):
So on one side a key thing.

Speaker 10 (48:38):
But obviously with the political instability that's still a bit
fluid because of the could tell that happened in October
last year, Steven, we still need to watch the horizon.
Hopefully something was settled in the right direction.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Why did they have a moratorium in the first place,
I mean, was an environmental issue where people being abused.
I mean, Madagascar is a country old of thought could
do with the income.

Speaker 10 (48:58):
Well, it was in terms of controlling accountability, Stephen, and
they didn't just the government felt that there was not
enough the regulatory framework and the controls that were there
were not allowed to Remember, Madagascar is an island, so
the end of the day, if you're going to smuggle,
it's quite easy and things are going to leave the country.
So it was about control and and accountability. And they

(49:19):
feel that with the other mineral lines they're able to
open it up, Stephen. But obviously with gold, as I said,
I think in a year they've only been eighteen cages
of gold that has been declared, so kind of somebody
is making a lot of money from somewhere, especially with
the stage with the rate of gold at the moment.
But let's see how it goes. It's a good step
in the right direction. But again it all depends on

(49:41):
the political willpower. That is still early days after the
cold Deiti in October last.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
Year, Madagascar the only movie with his own island.

Speaker 10 (49:50):
Maybe that's why they've lifted up because Alex the Lion
is taking a key role.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Children.

Speaker 10 (49:57):
Of course, the children not because of being enjoyed Ivory Coast.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
There's a Coco buy back scheme. So the price of
coco last year skyrocketed, right, and hasn't it sort of
fallen by about forty percent this year. Now that's great
if you like chocolate, and I'm looking around to see
someone who doesn't. But when that happens, there's a huge
impact on you.

Speaker 10 (50:19):
So one hundred percent, right, CIVI. So that's one of
the reasons why this biobig is happening. But there are
two other key components that has forced the government to
make this decision, and I think it's quite a key thing,
especially when you see the quantum of things we shall
unexplain Stephen. One is, obviously the price of coco has
gone down. Ivory is a big export of coco. The
second thing this also led to a liquidity crisis. And

(50:41):
the other big challenge that is there, Stephen, is that
from a supply chain perspective, Coco is a product in
terms of just getting to market as a number of
challenges because of logistics, ships are not coming on time,
et cetera, et cetera. So remember most of the farmers
that produce coco in Ivory Coast, even a small holder farmers,
and just from an Africa perspective. Just to give you

(51:03):
the size, the small scale farmers contribute probably about forty
percent fifty percent of the continent's GDP, so we've got
a large number of farmers contributing a significant amount. So
the total estimated buy back value that the Ivory Coast
government is going to do to get these to put
money back in terms of the and stop this liquidity

(51:23):
crisis divin is about five hundred million newest dollars.

Speaker 4 (51:26):
I'm just talking about that if it costs.

Speaker 10 (51:28):
So you can see from a cash flow perspective, from
a supply chain perspective, the positive impact that would do,
and it's the right thing to do. But obviously there's
to be sustainable because paying that money back into the
supply chain, that's a positive thing. But how sustainable is it.
The total amount of of of beans that are not
being exported at the moment Coco beans is one hundred

(51:50):
thousand tons, So you've still got a problem of you
need to get these out of the country and bought
so that will happen with due course, but at the
moment those three factors are impacting them negatively.

Speaker 3 (51:59):
Steven.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
It is like gold. At the moment the word of
the moment is volatility. You just don't know what's going
to happen, and how do you plan for it?

Speaker 10 (52:05):
Yeah, how do you plan for it? And how do
you strategically position yourself for it? And that's that's a
big challenge all over the show, Stephens. So that's what
I'm saying from a government perspective, and I think this
is what you need governments to do when they see
obviously they have not diversified enough as an economy. But
still I think to give props to the government, they've
seen this challenge, they see the impact it makes on
the small scale farmers and they've stepped in and made

(52:27):
the significanti injection of cash and for me, that's a
positive thing under current globally global macroeconomic situations.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Zimbabwe is getting the continent's first lithium sulfate plant. I
have no idea what lithium sulfate is is it in myself?

Speaker 10 (52:44):
Well, it's a big lithium obviously related to the production
of lithium which is now called the white gold. Stephen,
Zimbabwe one of the biggest deposits on the continent. DearS
probably has a bit more, but it's always hard to
measure DearS because you've got the whole civil war happening,
but Zimbabwe is about eleven million tons. They've teamed up
with a Chinese entity who is injected five hundred million

(53:08):
US dollars Steven with regards to a lithium a self
had manufacturing plant in Pikita, which is in the southern
part of Zimbabwe. Obviously, with such an investment, Steven, it's
supposed to impact the rest of the ecosystem. We're talking
about infrastructure, healthcare and education. But I think the big
thing there is that by twenty thirty, thanks to this

(53:30):
construction of this manufacturing plant Steven, they expect to hit
producing one hundred and sixty thousand tons of lithium. And
then the moment, Zimbabwe is year on near grain about
thirty percent year on near growth in terms of output
on lithium. So when you look at the ev market,
where it's going, and obviously this is a key product,
it's in the right direction. But again you've got the

(53:50):
Chinese involved. It's all going to build down to quality
and Zimbabwe's responsibility to ensure that happens.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
And then kb Lame Lami Lamih, the Senegalese ah right,
three billion dollars networth is the claim. Maybe not?

Speaker 10 (54:06):
Yeah, so Stephen, remember with he made it. He teamed
up with rich Sparkle and they did a one billion
US dollar deal. One of the concerns that has come up,
and this is Forbes who highlighted that because remember the
company Rich Sparkle. Because of this deal, their value moved
from fifty million US dollars to sixteen point three billion.
But one of their big concerns is that when they

(54:27):
valued KB in his company, which the people are saying
should be about three billion US dollars, they are saying
that if you measured this based on stock price, it's
one thing, but they said it should be measured based
on financials, and if you measured it on financials, it
shouldn't be a billion US dollars, it should be less
than three billion US dollars. Kblamb has probably got about

(54:47):
three undred and sixty million users. We've seen the impact
on social media and what it does the evaluation of
a company. But the bottom line that's coming out here
is that both corporate investors in this day and age,
we need value digital companies and the and the social
media and the value they bring to companies, the question
is how do you valuate properly and how sustainable is it?
And that's obviously a kin here. At the end of

(55:09):
the day, I think it's a great thing that Kabilem
has done, but I think corporate investors and and players
are saying, how do you sustainably value companies like this
that are based on social media driving We've seen I
show Speed recently came and made a lot of money
and made a lot of impact. But sometimes it can
be a bubble in the air. But is it is
it sustainable in the long term? And those are the

(55:30):
questions coming up, and it will see how the story
and pets go into the future.

Speaker 2 (55:34):
I mean, the thing about social media is it can
all end so quickly.

Speaker 10 (55:37):
It can it can see then. And but at least
I've got a follower in you, Stephen. I just need
to value how much you you you make.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Watch platform following you.

Speaker 10 (55:48):
It's called my platform with Stephen dot com and it's
working quite nicely at the moment.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Excellent. Okay, why doctor the founding director of Dry That
Forget Advice, author of the book Rumble in the Jungle.
We're so good to see you. Thanks so much for
coming in tonight. Don't forget Personal Finance in just a moment,
how to change your habits to grow your wealth The.

Speaker 4 (56:10):
Money Show Personal Finance.

Speaker 2 (56:13):
Twenty two minutes now to eight the time. The conversation
we're having tonight is essentially about your financial future, as
it so often is on The Money Show at this time.
But the point to make is that your financial future
will not change unless you do. Warren Ingram is out
this evening. I'm very glad to welcome once again John Monique,

(56:35):
they head of financial Education of Mutual John, A good evening,
Good to chat to you again. It's such an interesting
idea that your financial future is not about your New
Year's resolutions when you wake up with a hangover on
New Year's Day. It's about consistent behavior, and yet I
think so many people find creating those habits quite hard.

Speaker 4 (56:55):
Absolutely good evening to you, Steve.

Speaker 11 (56:59):
Great look, I'm one of the people who believe that
the so called as harshly as I may call it,
New Year's celebration, it's very highly overrated. To be honest,
you know, from a financial planning point of view, if

(57:20):
nothing has changed in terms of the way you think
and the way you do things. If your habits have
not changed, we can pop champagne from transfer truck midnight
coming into the first of January twenty twenty six. Nothing
is going to change in your financial life throughout the year.
The reality, Steve is that you know, financial freedom is

(57:42):
not triggered by just simply the turning of the page
or the calendar. We can tend the pages of the calendar,
you will come up with those New Years resolutions. Until
you get to a point where you are prepared to
think differently, to see things differently, to change your financial habits,
your financial trajectory will remain the same. And I think

(58:03):
that's the message I'm hoping that our listeners will get.
I mean, we can start critically looking at our financial habits.
I like what just reminded of the statement by Albert
Einsteide that the problems in the world cannot be changed
by the same level of thinking that created them. So
that's why, if there's no change of anything in you,

(58:26):
let's just continue living life and not to expect any
miracles in twenty twenty six.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
So, I mean, many people have the right intention and
they start off start of the year or whatever it
is by saying I'm going to do it like this
and then they don't. Now is the problem that actually
is quite hard to do. Is the problem that when
it comes to the trade off, so I need to

(58:53):
now start saving this to say ten percent more of
my income. Oh it's January. It's January. It's either that
or new shoes for my office job or whatever it is.
And is that where the problem comes that that execution
starts become really quite difficult.

Speaker 11 (59:13):
Yeah, look, yeah, and I like the way do you
use the operative way being trade offs? If you want
to see changes in your financial life, let's start looking
at what are the what are the couple of things
that you can change? It actually starts. Yes, we spoke
about changing your thinking, but it also includes your circle
of friends.

Speaker 4 (59:34):
You've got friends who.

Speaker 11 (59:35):
The life revolves around events, parting, fast cars.

Speaker 4 (59:41):
You don't discuss investments, you don't discuss you know what
I mean?

Speaker 11 (59:47):
And I like the advert that Nando's adverts you play
the earlier just before before this chair, and it's said
the more things change, the more they stay the same.
You know, So you have to look get the circle
of friends you have. You need to surround yourself with
people will inspire people will think alike. Like they say,
birds are the same feathers flop together. You you need

(01:00:11):
to you need to look at some You need to
have some kind of a sapotism. If you decide to say,
these are the changes I'm going to make, you know,
I'm going to start investing more, I'm going to start
cutting back on my expenditure or spend less, or pay
off my debts, whatever it is. But you also need

(01:00:32):
some kind of a uh a system that will help
you to keep you honest. This might be telling somebody
about your goals and your ambition. Somebody will keep you honest.
But by the way, you said you're going to be
enrolling for your masters or PhD, they say how far
are you with that?

Speaker 4 (01:00:51):
You know and all that?

Speaker 11 (01:00:52):
Because sometimes we just top big, but we're actually done
follow through. We'll lack that discipline. So let's look at
it things that we need to change a because if
your motivation level is not above your goals, you're going
to have a problem with sustaining these things. That's why
these new resolutions just fit away with a couple of weeks.
I mean, how many people are donating with these gym companies.

(01:01:16):
When I say, I'm not referring to a sparsic specific brand,
but I'm talking about these places that people go to
to exercise, you know, unless I be sued by a
particular brand.

Speaker 4 (01:01:28):
But what I mean is we're donating there, We're saying we.

Speaker 11 (01:01:30):
Want to be fit, but we don't actually even visit
such places.

Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
So I mean it's interesting because people and we're all
the same. It's much easier to visualize and to have
a conversation about what I'm going to have for lunch,
what I'm going to spend on lunch, because that's in
an hour's time or in my case, supper, But it's
much harder to sort of plan for the future in
five to ten years from now. And I mean there's
a famous experiment about giving I think it's three year

(01:01:59):
old children a little chocolate and saying you can have
one chocolate. Now, if you hold this chocolate for an hour,
you can have two chocolates. And you can see which
children can do that and which children can't. And the
phrase is the therred consumption, and that's pretty much your
entire life. John is trying to encourage the third consumption.
You know, you don't consume it now, you defer it

(01:02:20):
to have it later, and it's really hard to do.

Speaker 11 (01:02:23):
Yeah, it's certainly not an easy thing, Steve, because a
lot of people struggle to relate to their future self.
We you know, it's easy to think about what what
am I going to eat for for dinner because it's
just maybe a couple of hours, a couple of minutes
before you eat, But you don't think what's going to

(01:02:46):
happen ten fifteen years from now when I retire? Am
I going to retire comfortably? Will I have enough to
sustain my life? Will I be able to maintain the
same startup of living when I retire?

Speaker 4 (01:03:00):
What am I going to be doing when I retire?

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
You know?

Speaker 11 (01:03:03):
Am I contributing enough towards securing a my retirement? I mean,
if your retirement provision is not in check, you're going
to have a serious challenges. I just think that we're
finding it easy to go for easy things. I mean,
we're not ready to sacrifice. And this, by the way,

(01:03:23):
there's a risk of sounding like we're over generalizing.

Speaker 4 (01:03:26):
There are exceptions.

Speaker 11 (01:03:27):
There are people who are who are role models when
it comes to thinking about the future and planning for
the future. I mean we see that with quite a
number of business people who have built empires and they
didn't just land in this success. I mean it was
a series of hard work, disciplined execution over time.

Speaker 4 (01:03:48):
So you know, these are things that we need to start.

Speaker 11 (01:03:51):
We need to start with small steps, you know, having
a regular conversation with your financial advisor baitally on where
the gaps are in your financial planning and if you're
not able to, you know, meet up with some of
your or things that you could be doing in terms
of ensuring that you've got a proper balance portfolio. But
at least you know where the gifts are. You're waking

(01:04:12):
towards something. So I think that's a good place to
start to help one to think, to think things forward
to to start thinking long term and not living for
them now, you know, because we want the soft life,
we want things to come easy.

Speaker 4 (01:04:30):
We think life.

Speaker 11 (01:04:34):
It should be free from struggles, but in reality, it
is those struggles. It is those tensions and conflicts that
teaches us something. I mean, this is where growth comes from.
So we just need to be prepared to deal with
those things and not expect the soft life.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
I completely understand and accept the view that we shouldn't
look at New Year's Day or the beginning of the
year as a chance to change everything. It's about consistent habits.
Where this period in the year is quite useful, especially
at the end of January in the text year going
into February, is to use this sort of point of
the year as a checkpoint. If you're going to do that,

(01:05:13):
what kind of financial areas should you really be focusing
on to try and get a good understanding of where
you are and where are you going to be in
ten years time?

Speaker 11 (01:05:22):
Yeah, and that's exactly that steve to be honest. So
when we say, or rather when I say that the
new year is not just about the turning of the page,
it's really about looking at the new years as a checkpoint.
It's a checkpoint to say, Okay, I'm here. Now can
I look at the past twelve months? What did I

(01:05:44):
have goals? And did I achieve them? Where did I
fall shot? Okay, now going into the new year, what
about goals? It's time to review your goals? This thing
about I need to think myself. Are we really be
honest with us? You know, before we we say we
are rewarding ourselves so let's look at the new as

(01:06:05):
a checkpoint to say how far have I gone?

Speaker 4 (01:06:09):
You know, have I achieved? What else do you I
need to do.

Speaker 11 (01:06:11):
That's why it's so critical to have these checking with
with your financial advisors, so that they can help you
keep honest with these things in the same way that
you would you would visit your medical doctor regularly. You know,
they check blood pressure, they they look at a couple
of things of cholesterol, and do the same. When it
comes to financial planning, do that check in and check

(01:06:34):
way how far you've gone, what changes you need to make.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
I mean, I think a lot of people when they
start that process just start to feel overwhelmed. You know,
you look at how much you own the house and
this and the that, and you look at at how
much money is coming through you. I mean, are they
particular sort of small actions that are maybe more realistic

(01:06:58):
that you can sort of take now that will make
the rest of twenty twenty six feel a lot better.

Speaker 11 (01:07:03):
No, absolutely, I think you know you don't have to look.
I know some people might say, you know, I don't
want to tackle big goals and visions circle, but you
can start small. You do your own account to say, look,
I'm do a list of your debts. If let's say,
for argument's sake, you've got five or ten, how many
can you kill in twenty twenty six?

Speaker 4 (01:07:24):
How many can you reduce?

Speaker 11 (01:07:27):
Maybe you want to look at you might still be
playing off your car or you're bond. You might want
to put a milestone for yourself by during this yale,
or by end of the year or in the next
three years. I want to have settled this car. I
want to have settled this dead. You know, you need
to set some goals, and those you need to be realistic,

(01:07:49):
because a danger also setting unrealistic goals, You're going to
discourage yourself in the process. So you might want to
tackle smaller ones and say, okay, let me start somewhere.
You might want to say, well, actually, uh, I need
to I don't.

Speaker 4 (01:08:03):
Have it will, so let me put a will together.

Speaker 11 (01:08:06):
But in that will, what's the point of you know,
doing a wall without consulting with your advisor to look
at is your portfolio balance enough? I mean, do you
understand what it means to uh start reviewing your estate
to make sure that your families were looked after in
the scheme of that conversation you you'll be able to

(01:08:26):
identify some you know, short term goals, short medium or
even long term goals that you can agree with with
your financial planner to help you. And then if you
can I mean, you know, I like people who talk
about vision boards because we are visual beings, you know.
So if you start putting things visually and you see

(01:08:47):
and you motivate yourself by checking in and having these checkpoints.

Speaker 4 (01:08:52):
For me, that's what I would do.

Speaker 11 (01:08:54):
If I've never done something like that, That's what I
would do this year.

Speaker 2 (01:08:58):
We're speaking to John Monique, the head of financial Education
at Old Mutual and Personal Finance, what you can change
now to create wealth later nine minutes now to eight
o'clock on The Money Show.

Speaker 12 (01:09:11):
The Money Show Stephen Cruets is brought to you by
Absolve Corporate and Investment Banking, Balancing economic growth with ecosystems.
That's how they've invested in your story.

Speaker 5 (01:09:23):
The Money Show, Personal Finance.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
John Monique is the head of financial education at Old
Mutual with us on Personal Finance tonight. How your financial
future will not change in this you do, John, There's
sort of two things that I think we all battle
with trying to change our financial behavior. The one is
we so often do what we used to. I mean,
I have so many of the same brands in my

(01:09:47):
house that I grew up with as an example. And
the other is that we try and not always just
impress our friends, but want to make sure that we
look like we're keeping up with our friends. How do
we kind of pull ourselves away from those two things
the very strong forces.

Speaker 11 (01:10:05):
No, absolutely, And I think this is where a lot
of people are trapped, you know, because there are these
uh societal pressures and we want to keep up. And
unfortunately social media has really not helped a lot of
people because that is a platform where a lot of
people thrive. And what many people are projecting or social

(01:10:28):
media and what the reality is is are two different things,
you know, because we are trying to impress, we're trying
to show that we are we are willing. And that's
the problem. When you project an image of success, when
you know, deep down you know that you are not,
that you're not as successful as you're projecting it to be,

(01:10:48):
you could miss opportunity to be helped by people. If
there is a good Summartan out there, then might think, ah,
this one is doing Okay, So there's no point in
trying to project what you're not an image of success
when you're not. I know there's some people who say
fake it until you make it. Well, if it works
for some people, I guess, but I don't believe that

(01:11:08):
you need to be trying to keep up with people
you don't know for certain, even the very same people
you are comparing yourself with that you're trying to compete
with that they indeed they are really successful. Yes they
can show these big cars that they drive, but you
know what a lot of these cars that we see
on the road.

Speaker 4 (01:11:28):
I know it might sound that i'm too there's a
lot of balloon in there, you know.

Speaker 11 (01:11:34):
So you're enving people driving cars they cannot afford themselves,
and you're also putting yourself in in, you know, in
the firing line by trying to compete. So there's no
need I think if you can at least this just say, look,
let me stand my lane. I'm not competing. If there's
anyone I'm competing with, it myself. I think you will
have a lot less pressure living life with having to

(01:11:58):
prove yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:11:59):
There's one book for children called, Oh the Places You
Will go by Doctor Zeus and one of the great lines,
and it says life is long, and then the race
is long, and in the end, the only person you're
competing with is you. I just love that idea. You're
only playing against you, no one else. One of the
things that happened, right, I think one of the things

(01:12:21):
that's hard to do is to start saving as your
most important thing, so the saving comes first, not everything else.
I think most of us go into kind of life.
We'll look at our salary slip and think your saving
comes last. Saving is kind of whatever's left when actually,
particularly for the you of ten years time, you really

(01:12:42):
want to save first.

Speaker 11 (01:12:43):
Well, true, Look, it is important to pay yourself first.
It's a pity that when it comes to saving, people
don't see that as paying themselves first, or.

Speaker 4 (01:12:51):
Rather pay other people. That we all, but why not
pay yourself as well? You're always You're always to yourself.

Speaker 11 (01:12:58):
You're all success true yourself, and one of doing that
is to pay yourself as much as you pay others.
You know, put some money aside for yourself, you know,
because if you prioritize everyone else and say, look, if
there are any left of us that I'll start saving
it doesn't work, but why not share savings as an
expense in the same way that you will be paying

(01:13:19):
a furnisher installment or a car installment. You know, even
if it's you start with a small amount. But it's
all a lot about mindset and seeing and recognizing the
fact that you also need to pay yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:13:32):
Is there one, I mean, for anyone listening to this.
We're in February now, there's so much of this year
to go, There's so much sil to pay for, There's
so much silter save for as well. Is there one
particular sort of habit, daily habit maybe that has the
biggest impact? I mean, is it dropping the cappuccino every morning?

(01:13:52):
Is the something else?

Speaker 4 (01:13:53):
Look, we all have us things, if I may call
them that.

Speaker 11 (01:13:58):
You know, we have our addictions, and we know what addictions.
It might be a bottle of that holy water, it
could be whatever, you know, whatever way.

Speaker 4 (01:14:09):
You know you're spending a lot of money. I know
some maybe with.

Speaker 11 (01:14:13):
Letties, it might be handbags, it might be doing their head.
But it's not about saying cut everything. It's about maybe
rejuice where you can try and live within your means.
I mean, one of the biggest conceptions Steve about financial
change is that you need some dramatic moves or you
need perfect conditions. You don't need perfect conditions and realities.

(01:14:36):
You need to start somewhere. You may want to start small,
but start somewhere.

Speaker 2 (01:14:40):
That's such a good way to start to say it.
You've got to start somewhere. John Monika, thank you, really
good to talk to you again, Head of financial education
at Old Mutual. It's not about so much what you do,
but if you've got to start first, just start, you
know that really is I think the lesson from it.

Speaker 4 (01:14:57):
The money Show is stealing through.

Speaker 12 (01:14:59):
It is brought to you you by absolute corporate and
investment banking, balancing economic growth with ecosystems. That's how they've
invested in your story.

Speaker 2 (01:15:09):
Well, US markets down again, does seem that one of
the big problems is that there's a big sell off
in software in cloud firms. Cloud of course, I'm talking
about information in the sky. The Dow Jones is down
over half a percent, the Nasdaq down one point seven,
the S and P five hundred down nearly a full percent.
So lots of drama on US markets tonight. We'll bring

(01:15:31):
you all of the daily drama tomorrow on The Money Show.
Good Evening, it's eight o'clock

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