October 7, 2025 • 45 mins
The commercial real estate landscape is evolving, not dying, and Mike "Big Mike" Zlotnick is at the forefront of connecting passive investors with lucrative opportunities. His simple yet powerful philosophy? "We marry money and opportunity."
Contrary to popular belief, many commercial property types are thriving post-pandemic. Open-air shopping centers have become particularly attractive investments as supply remains constrained while demand grows. Even previously online-only retailers like Warby Parker have opened hundreds of physical locations, recognizing that customers still want in-person experiences for certain products. Meanwhile, industrial properties continue seeing strong demand due to reshoring initiatives and manufacturing needs. Multifamily remains a necessity-based investment that performs well across economic cycles.
Not all commercial property is created equal, however. Zlotnick candidly warns about office space being a "danger zone" due to remote work trends. This level of transparency characterizes his investment approach, which prioritizes downside protection over home runs. "I would rather never lose money than make 10 home runs and 10 strikeouts," he explains, echoing Howard Marks' definition of risk as simply "the possibility of loss."
For those interested in commercial real estate syndication, Zlotnick breaks down the essentials: typically, investors need to be accredited ($200,000 annual income or $1 million net worth excluding primary residence), with minimum investments around $100,000. The syndication structure allows investors to participate passively while experienced operators manage the properties, providing both cash flow and potential appreciation.
Perhaps most compelling is Zlotnick's perspective on the educational journey of investing. He poses a thought-provoking question: "Are you learning to invest, or are you investing to learn?" This dual nature of investment education underscores that every decision provides valuable lessons, regardless of outcome.
Ready to explore commercial real estate investing with a focus on predictable outcomes? Visit BigMikeFund.com to learn how you can participate in institutional-grade commercial real estate without the headaches of active management.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (01:04):
it didn't say this is being recorded.
Okay.
It says recording, okay.
So sorry, you guys, you'regonna have to cut the first part
of this off.
You just says this is beingrecorded.
So I just want to make triplesure recording, okay, all right.
Okay, christy, y'all guys cutthe first part off.
This baby says this is beingrecorded.
So I just want to make triplesure I'm recording, okay, all
right.
Okay, chrissy, y'all got to cutthe first part off this baby.
(01:28):
Hey everybody, welcome to themost Dwanderful real estate
podcast ever.
I'm your host, Dwan BentTwyford.
I am America's most soughtafter real estate investor and I
am really super excited thatyou are here with me today.
Our motto over here atDwanderful is people before
profits, so if that's somethingthat resonates with you, then
(01:51):
I'm your girl.
You're here at the right time.
We got a great guest.
You're going to fall in lovewith him today too, and so the
way I got Dwanderful is I tookmy, took my name, Dwan and
wonderful, and I made a new word.
So you are now in theDwan-der-ful universe.
My social medias areDwan-der-ful at everything
(02:11):
Instagram, wherever, just allthings.
Just go find Dwan-der-ful Alsowebsite Dwan-der-fulcom.
So I am literally everywhereand I have some good news for
those of you that might be newlisteners.
We just reached a milliondownloads a couple of months ago
, so I was super excited to bein like the million download
club.
So now I'm going to see howfast we can get to two million.
(02:33):
But I can't do that without you, all right.
So today I have Mike I'm goingto make sure I say it right
Zlotnick, mike Zlotnick, we, Ihave Mike.
I'm going to make sure I say itright Zlotnick, mike Zlotnick.
We were just talking before Igot on here.
I was like man, I swear I'vemet him.
Maybe not if I met you, mike,but I know your name.
So I'm like super excited totalk to you and get to know you.
So this is Mike Zlotnick.
So he's our wicked smart guytoday.
(02:55):
So how are you, big Mike?
Mike Zlotnik (02:59):
I'm wonderful, I'm Dwanderful.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (03:02):
Dwanderful.
See, you are Dwanderful.
Now can I call you Big Mike,Because I really like that Big
Mike.
Mike Zlotnik (03:08):
Yeah, people do call me Big Mike.
I am 6'4", I'm a big fellow andpeople have called me Big Mike
for many years.
I'm good with that.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (03:15):
I like it, though I like it.
Big Mike sets you apart.
So yeah, got Big Mike, andDwan-der-ful People will
remember who we are.
Mike Zlotnik (03:22):
That's right.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (03:23):
So here is what we do over at Dwan-der-ful.
I hate going through thetypical.
Here's your 10 questions, blah,blah, blah, because everybody
does that.
So I like to throw my guests tothe wolves and basically I just
want you to, in like two orthree sentences, tell us what
you do, give me all your socialmedias and then I'm going to ask
you some questions and we'regoing to find out how we came
(03:47):
here today.
So we want to know what is yourdeal.
Mike Zlotnik (03:52):
I'll keep it very simple.
So we bring the wonderfulcommercial real estate deals to
passive investors.
This is our whole journey.
I like to use this word.
I should probably trademark it.
We marry money and opportunity,at least initially.
We make money, date theopportunity, but we find
(04:16):
wonderful commercial real estatedeals this is our genius zone,
our specialty real estate dealsthis is our genius zone, our
specialty.
And then we have many passiveinvestors who don't have the
time or desire to do full, deepdue diligence and they reach out
and they want to get into greatcommercial deals that are
income focused and downsideprotected and invest in
(04:39):
industrial, open air, shopping,multifamily, you name it.
We do it all.
So we basically marry money andopportunity.
That's the best way to put it.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (04:48):
You should trademark that.
I started short sales back like30 years before short sales
ever had a name and anyone everknew them.
I kind of stumbled into them byaccident and they were still
calling them things likediscounting notes, like there
wasn't a term yet.
So I trademarked short salesand then the queen of short
sales.
And so it's like hey, if youwant to know about short sales,
(05:12):
I originated it.
I helped bring an entireindustry into the real estate
market.
So marry money to opportunity.
Things like that are worthgetting a little trademark
because I need a little tm afterit and like that's what you're
known for.
So if I were you I would do it,I mean thank you for your
(05:33):
wonderful advice.
I I probably will do thatbecause, if not, someone else is
going to go.
Hey, I really like that merrymoney.
They're going to start usingyour stuff and, like, I just
recently had a girl that put upa bunch of YouTube videos
calling herself short-tailedqueen, and my attorney wrote her
a letter and she pulled herentire site down.
It's like don't be encroachingon my stuff, girl.
(05:55):
I've been doing this 35 years.
You're a newbie?
Okay, now, I love everything Iheard about that statement.
And how do people find you onsocial media?
Mike Zlotnik (06:06):
Now we're going to get really cheesy.
So, big Mike, you got toremember that I actually run
funds.
So BigMikeFund.
com, that easy.
We have corporate website.
But the easiest way to rememberBigMikeikefund.
com and if you misspell it, youforget the D at the end then you
go to bigmikefund.
com.
(06:28):
I promise it's not a kinky site.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (06:34):
Big Mike Fund .
Well, you can't get any easierthan that.
That is easy.
Okay Now, first of all, I lovethat you talked about commercial
.
I am in a commercial phase inmy real estate investing career.
My husband and I are basicallyrehabbing a town in Clinton,
iowa.
I've done only two or threecommercial deals and in the last
five years we bought 20buildings.
Mike Zlotnik (06:55):
That's that wonderful.
Again, you're becoming thequeen of the town.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (07:02):
We can talk about that on your podcast.
And it's funny because Istarted investing.
So my daughter is 36.
I started investing when shewas just a baby.
So, like I've been saying,let's say I have 35 solid years.
And then that whole entire timeI bought, like you know, some
of those neighborhoods that takeold houses and they make them
(07:22):
light commercial and I had anoffice I had like two little and
that was it I was at.
And then about five years agomy husband and I were like you
know, we should buy somecommercials.
Yeah, you know, that'd be fun,let's do that.
And it no, it wasn't evenanything I thought about.
I didn't plan it.
It kind of came across our pathand sort of an opportunity that
just presented itself.
That was basically too good tobe true.
(07:44):
And now I'm just like man, Ishould have been doing this
decades ago.
This is so much fun.
Mike Zlotnik (07:50):
Yeah, the easiest way to think about this it's
economy of scale.
I'll just add one quick comment.
I have a lot of friends who areheavy residential guys and
girls.
They do hundreds of deals peryear.
They own hundreds of deals peryear.
They own hundreds of properties.
Let me say thousands, becausein residential if you own a
thousand single-family houses,that's a huge number.
I'm sure some of them may beinto thousands.
(08:10):
You know what the biggest issueis.
It's difficult, it's hard, it'shard to scale with these
turnkey or rental portfolios andpeople come to a realization
that they often need to exitsome of them and roll the money
into something that's scalable,like large multifamily or
industrial or shopping, whereyou can deploy a lot more
(08:31):
capital, be a lot more passiveand not worry about tenants and
toilets.
Again, nothing negative to sayabout having an empire of
residential property.
It's just harder to manage.
You need to have almost you'rerunning a business of
residential property.
It's just harder to manage.
You need to have almost you'rerunning a business of managing
that.
With commercial properties.
It's somewhat easier witheconomy of scale, and some of
them are I don't want to callself-manage, but they're way,
(08:53):
way easier to operate.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (08:55):
Now see, I hear people say things to me
like oh, I don't know why youguys own so much commercial
space, commercial's dead, peoplearen't opening businesses and
whatever.
Now, in our little town, like Isaid, we own a lot of buildings
but we have people rentingspaces and putting in antique
malls and putting in coffeeshops and putting in clothing
boutiques and restaurants, andit's like I don't know when
(09:18):
people say, oh, commercial's sorisky, people don't need to rent
anymore, people work from home.
It's like that's not true.
There's a ton of people that dobusinesses that need like a
brick and mortar.
Mike Zlotnik (09:30):
Yeah, you're absolutely right, absolutely
right.
There's a few things, few greatopportunities.
One, people need to livesomewhere, so multifamily
investments seem to be prettysticky investments seem to be
pretty sticky Long-term.
As population grows,multifamily seems to be one of
those asset classes thatprobably is needed forever.
Then you go into open-airshopping and you go into
(09:52):
industrial.
We go to a number of otherstrategies and I'll tell you a
couple of words about open-airshopping.
We've been doing this for manyyears.
It's been a huge contrarianplay and everyone talked about
Amazon and e-commerce is goingto destroy them and guess what?
They haven't built any open-airshopping.
Now the malls have gone the wayof a dinosaur.
It's very different, theseenclosed malls with Sears and
(10:14):
other basically big boxretailers.
But open-air shoppingexperiential type of
service-oriented retail doesreally well for a few reasons.
One, post-covid opening, peoplewanted to come out and enjoy
restaurants outdoors, have goodtime.
Two, there's been no supply andnumber of pure e-tailers.
(10:38):
I'll give you one example WarbyParker we're both wearing
glasses.
My wife is actually anoptometrist of pure e-tailers.
I'll give you one example WarbyParker we're both wearing
glasses.
My wife is actually anoptometrist.
So open-air shopping plazashave seen 600 new stores for
Warby Parker.
Warby Parker used to be pureinternet play.
So what's really crazy?
Some of these e-tailers havegone the way of a physical store
(11:00):
because they need both theyneed the mobile app, they need
the e-commerce website and theyneed a physical presence so
people can actually try on theseeyeglasses and see how they
look in a live mirror instead oflooking at a computer.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (11:12):
That's why I buy mine.
I wouldn't buy them if Icouldn't try them on.
Mike Zlotnik (11:16):
Exactly, especially women.
My wife is an optometrist andthey've got to try them on.
They've got to see how theylook and feel before they buy.
So from that perspective, manystrategies have gone.
The demand has grown for retailand there's been almost no new
supply.
The new supply for retail hasbeen very, very limited.
People haven't built them.
(11:37):
They've built a lot of otherthings, but they said not retail
.
So it's been a great contrarianplay.
It continues to do really well.
Another very interesting playindustrial.
We've got Donald Trump.
He is reindustrializing America, made in America again.
Right, american manufacturingand other strategies require
(11:57):
more industrial properties.
There's one strategy thatcontinues to do really well.
There are a number of otheropportunities, but I'm going to
shut up and let you all stop fora moment.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (12:06):
See, I agree with you, though, because you
know, every time we buy anotherbuilding, people are like, oh,
my guy's buying commercialCommercial's dead.
Nobody wants a store anymore.
It's like, well, that's nottrue.
I mean, granted, I certainlytake advantage of Amazon.
It's like, why do I need todrive?
Because I live in the mountains.
I'm in the mountains ofColorado at 9,000 feet, so it's
(12:29):
a 45 minute thing for me to goto the grocery store and back.
So it's like if I need twothings, I'm just going to get it
on Amazon and it'll be heretomorrow.
I mean, I get it.
But you know, like we put in anantique mall, we have like 200
people a day that come throughthere because people like to buy
antiques.
You know coffee shops and weserve those energy drinks and
(12:49):
those bobas and like all thatcrazy stuff.
And just so many people.
Because people still want to goin, people still want to go out
to eat, people still want towalk up and down.
You know, for blocks.
I love those open-air shoppingmalls that they have.
We have one down in Denvercalled Belmar.
It's so great.
Even in the winter it's packed.
People don't care, they're justout walking and eating and
(13:12):
drinking and doing all the stufflike that.
So whenever I have people say,oh, why do you get so much on
commercials?
It's like I don't thinkcommercial's dead.
I mean, maybe for some officesa lot of offices do have people
that work from home now or workonline but for the things that
we can feel and touch, we stillwant to feel and touch those
things.
Mike Zlotnik (13:31):
At least I do.
Yeah, you are absolutely right.
Office is a danger zone, so westay away from office for the
reasons that you mentioned.
I don't know what the futuredemand will look like, and I
live in New York City and wehave a lot of empty buildings
and some tenants are locked intheir long leases and they want
to get out because they don'tneed as much space, as a lot of
(13:53):
people continue to work fromhome.
So I would say, office, be verycareful.
At least from my observation,there's some redevelopment
concepts in the office, but it'shard to redevelop.
I've looked into some of themand you take a big office
building.
All the plumbing, electric,everything else is off, so
redevelopment is pretty hard.
However, all the other thingsthat I mentioned open-air
(14:14):
shopping, industrial multifamily, a number of other niche
strategies continue to be reallyattractive and they have
economy of scale.
So yeah, so CRE commercial realestate in general has many
different flavors.
They're different locations andall real estate is local.
So for one town you may beoverbuilt, for another town you
(14:34):
may be undersupplied.
You really have to payattention where you're at, what
are the demographics, how theeconomy is doing and does it
need any more retail, and ifit's got enough and there's no
more place to build, it'sprobably got a great long-term
play.
Office again is something thatwe stay out of it and I can't
give any other feedback otherthan we are very concerned about
(14:55):
office.
We love industrial, open-airshopping, multifamily.
These strategies are a lot morepredictable.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (15:01):
Yeah, now one of our buildings has downtown.
It's all retail downtown.
Second floor is all apartments,third floor is all office, and
the only people that are upthere are people that have been
there for like 200 years.
So I agree, okay, so now youmarry people to money, marry
money to opportunity.
Sorry, marry money toopportunity.
So I'm coming along.
(15:24):
I just find you.
I was like, hey, I heard BigBang on the most wonderful real
estate podcast ever and I wantto buy something.
What are you going to do for me?
What do you want from me andwhat do you do?
How do you marry?
Mike Zlotnik (15:42):
some of that money over here.
So we're not brokers.
Just to be very clear.
We don't broker real estate.
If you have a significant check, you want to write and you want
to buy a multifamily complex weknow a lot of people If you
want to invest in a project, youhave a lot of capital, we can
have that conversation, butthat's not a typical
conversation.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (15:57):
Just real quick.
Do you syndicate?
Mike Zlotnik (16:00):
Yes.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (16:01):
Okay, okay, so I know a lot of people we
syndicate.
Mike Zlotnik (16:05):
Most of our deals are syndications, so real quick
for people that don't know whatthat means?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (16:11):
what does that mean?
Because a lot of people I don'tyou know, honestly, I didn't
know what syndicating was like adecade ago and I've already
been investing 20 years.
Mike Zlotnik (16:20):
Sure.
So the easiest way tounderstand syndication you have
typically one property, maybetwo properties as a package, and
you have many investors.
So you have general partnersand limited partners.
Typically general partners arethe managers of a deal they are
sometimes called sponsors.
And then you have investors orlimited partners.
These folks write a check andthey write along the sponsor in
(16:42):
the deal and the deal may bevalue-add, may be performing.
There's a strategy in the deal,there's a business plan.
So typically the capital comesfrom investors to a degree.
Look, we've done some dealswhere the sponsor or the general
partner puts as much as 30% andsome deals they only put in 5%
(17:04):
or 10%.
The rest of the money comesfrom limited partners and
investors wind up providingmajority of the capital and it's
typically leveraged with a bankloan.
The leverage depends on thetype of deal.
Open-air shopping industrialstypically have low leverage,
around 60%, maybe 65%, whilemultifamily goes 70%, in some
(17:26):
cases 75% leverage.
The project gets acquired, it'sowned by the partnership and
the general partner runs theproject through its business
plan and then it cash flows onthe way.
So they have distributions.
General partner is responsibleto make the distributions,
provide financial statements,provide operating updates and
investors just enjoy the realestate passively.
(17:49):
They get the cash flow, theyget tax benefits in the form of
depreciation, they get operatingupdates and when the property
sells, the profits are splitaccording to the terms of the
offering.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (18:01):
Nice.
So I can just come in and sayhey, I've got.
What's your minimum investmentfor a syndication?
Mike Zlotnik (18:08):
Typically $100,000 .
Dwan Bent-Twyford (18:10):
Okay, so now?
So I'm going to ask somequestions.
Other people may not understand, but we'll explain to them.
So do they have to beaccredited and they have to have
$100,000?
Mike Zlotnik (18:22):
Generally speaking , yes, most of our deals are to
accredited investors.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (18:26):
Only Do we have any opportunities for
non-accredited.
Mike Zlotnik (18:31):
We have some friendly partners who have some
funds that may takenon-accredited.
We in general ourselves do onlyaccredited only.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (18:41):
Okay.
And so explain to me, I'm new,I've got 100 grand.
I say, hey, I want to give yousome money.
And so explain to me, I'm new,I've got a hundred grand.
I say, hey, I want to give yousome money and you go.
Mike Zlotnik (18:50):
Are you accredited and I go?
I don't know.
Have every expectation tocontinue to make that.
Or you have net worth of amillion dollars outside of the
primary residence.
Your home doesn't count.
(19:10):
You may live in a $20 millionhome and own it with cash
outright, but you got to have atleast a million dollars outside
of that.
And that's the generaldefinition of a credit investor.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (19:24):
Okay.
So if someone being accreditedis that reason, I'm going to
think how to phrase this.
Is that because if they losethe money, it doesn't bankrupt
them?
Is it because they have ahigher investing risk factor?
Or is that for you guys, forsome kind of protection in case
(19:45):
they just go?
Eh, I want out, I don't want todo this anymore.
I don't like it.
Like why do they have to beaccredited?
Mike Zlotnik (19:52):
It's SEC rules.
We don't invent the rules butwe have to follow these rules.
I know Security and ExchangeCommission has put together very
simple definitions.
They protect mom and pop, momand pop, grandmas, grandpas
investors who don't have a lotof money but they hear about
bright and shiny objects, somereally interesting deal.
They write a check, the dealgoes south and if they're not
accredited and they weresupposed to be accredited they
(20:15):
can go complain to SEC.
But in general that is designedto protect small investors
against what is viewed to behigher risk investments.
Again, alternative investments,real estate many private equity
investments typically gothrough these 506 offerings.
All 506 stands for is it's aregulation.
(20:38):
D 506 is a part of therequirements of the regulations.
So 506C is accredited investors.
Only 506B can include somenon-accredited.
These are technical terms.
To make a long story short, ifyou're a non-accredited investor
, hopefully you can get tobecome an accreditor soon enough
and be able to write a check.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (20:57):
Is it a long process for somebody?
Mike Zlotnik (21:01):
No, by the way, we don't.
And do you help?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (21:03):
them, or at least give them the person that
can accredit them.
Mike Zlotnik (21:07):
Any CPA or an attorney, a licensed party, can
write an accreditation letter.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (21:11):
We can give them an accreditation letter
Even like just a regular, like Icould call my CPA day and say,
hey, I need to have a lettersaying I'm accredited.
I want to invest with Big Mike.
Mike Zlotnik (21:21):
That's exactly.
That's the best thing to do.
People use their attorneys orCPA.
Why?
Because I don't want to seeyour financials.
In fact, if you don't know howto get accredited, we'll
probably send you to a websitelike verifyinvestorcom or
similar.
There are websites that canverify accreditation Literally.
Lawyers will write a letter.
You show them either the assetsor the income and they'll write
(21:45):
a letter for you for like 60bucks if you don't want to
bother your CPA.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (21:49):
Oh, that's nice.
Yeah, see, that's what you know.
I've had a few people on,obviously, over the years that
people have to be accredited andI always forget to ask how does
the person get accredited?
Because you know, my podcast isgeared more towards a lot of
newer investors.
Like I like to take the newbiesand say look, there's 10,000
people out here that you canfollow.
(22:10):
Everyone's got a shiny object.
Find one person, make thatperson your mentor, because you
learn from mentors or mistakes.
So if you want to invest handsoff, they need to work with
somebody like you.
If you want to wholesale andrehab and do some fun things,
you probably should come overhere and look at me and I have
talked to other people that aresyndicated and I always keep
(22:32):
forgetting to ask, like, howeasy is it to get accredited?
Mike Zlotnik (22:35):
So really— Accreditation letter is super
easy.
We've seen many, many, manyinvestors.
I go to a number of masterminds.
One of the groups I go to has acheesy name called the
Collective Genius and a lot ofthese guys and girls.
They all wholesale, wholesale.
They flip houses, they rehabhouses and what's really
interesting is that many of themover time, graduate and they
(22:57):
get better and better and theybecome accredited and they start
investing with us.
So I'm not trying to tell youanything you don't know.
You start one place and as yougrow and your journey evolves
and you get more successful, youbecome accredited and you can
get a letter from a CPA any CPAand attorney who wants to write
you a letter or go one of thesepaid services for 60 bucks you
can have an accreditation letter.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (23:17):
And see my like.
I am 66 years old, so my aunts,uncles, parents are all in
their 80s and they're allsitting on just gobs of money.
They don't have any idea whatto do with it.
You know it's like and I'm likehey, you could invest this, you
could invest that, get yourselfaccredited, like there's still
things people can do.
There's just so many peoplesitting on so much money that
(23:40):
don't want to physically go gettheir hands dirty.
So I'm always telling them hey,if that's what you want to do,
you should work with somebodythat like what you guys have,
like the Big Bank Fund, get intosome commercial and get into
some multi-unit.
Multi-units are always great.
I mean, I know a lot of peoplethat do multi-units.
There's a lot of things peoplecan do and they can invest
(24:02):
without having to physicallylike run the show.
Mike Zlotnik (24:05):
Yeah yeah, we do this all day long and I'll tell
you the most important elementsto making those decisions is you
got to basically get to know,like and trust whoever you're
going to invest with.
This is the jack of the horse.
You have to make sure first youfigure out who do you want to
invest with.
You do your due diligence, doyour research, get comfortable
(24:27):
and then you start looking atthe deals.
The deal is the horse and thejockey is first.
So keep it simple.
If you can get comfortable with,you know it could be a fund
manager, it could be asyndicator, it could be one of
these folks that has deepexpertise and always remember
basic principles Continue todiversify, continue to grow a
(24:49):
relationship over time.
You can even diversify overtime too.
There's so many ways todiversify, so you can look at
one deal that's one part of thecountry and then you can look at
another deal which is indifferent part of the country.
You could look at a multifamilyversus an industrial.
So just keep in mind nobodyknows the future if you've got a
(25:34):
crystal ball.
I was just reading another bookor listening.
There was a quote about thecrystal ball.
If you're going to follow.
If you're going to live by thecrystal ball, you're going to
eat grass off the floor orsomething like this.
Nobody knows.
That's the bottom line.
When you invest, you have tothink about the possibilities.
(25:55):
Not every deal may be a homerun, but at the same time, if
you do it the right way, youcould have phenomenal benefits
of investing in commercial realestate.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (26:07):
And the thing about working with someone like
you is you guys do the work,you do the research, you do the
homework, you do everything forthem, so they don't have to be
like oh I hope I didn't notcross a t or I forgot to dot an
I, because that's your job is todo that for them, so they can
step in with some confidencethat this is going to be a good
(26:28):
choice for me.
Mike Zlotnik (26:30):
Yeah, I appreciate the vote of confidence is what
we do right Day in and day out.
But I'm one of these people whowill tell you how it is.
If you expect no risk and youexpect perfection and you expect
to never lose money, keep yourmoney in the bank or US
Treasuries, everything has alittle bit of risk and you just
got to be comfortable tounderstand what you're investing
(26:52):
into the kind of the risksbenefits versus risk impact of
the.
So it's kind of funny.
I'm a big scholar of risk.
I really like to think aboutrisk and Howard Marks, a famous
investor, is one of the mostfamous folks out there, founder
(27:12):
of Oak Tree.
He said what is risk?
Risk is a possibility of a loss.
We think about it every day.
So we think about possibilityof a loss every day.
We're not looking to hitmassive home runs.
We would like to avoidsituations of losing money.
There's still possibility andthere are hidden risks.
One of the most examples youlive in mountains of Colorado,
(27:34):
right?
You haven't seen too manyearthquakes.
Well, but what if there is anearthquake of category seven
hits or something and nobodyever built for this?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (27:41):
Hey, listen, if Yellowstone blows up all of
us in the mountains, we're alldead.
Mike Zlotnik (27:46):
So there are real risks and there are some
theoretical risks, but thebottom line is I appreciate the
vote of confidence we continueto work and get better at
understanding risks and wealways look at the reward versus
risk, how things compare.
But we're not trying to go forthe most aggressive, bright and
shiny objects, but more of a Ilike to think of it downside
(28:08):
protected.
I would rather never to losemoney than make 10 home runs and
10 strikeouts, in a manner ofspeaking.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (28:15):
Now, see, I agree with you because, like I,
when I started off investingyears ago, there was nobody.
Well, there was no internet.
This I'm like.
I'm talking like 1990.
There was no internet, therewas no place to Google
everything, there was nobodytraveling through town doing
workshops and seminars.
Things didn't exist.
So I literally learned by theseat of my pants.
(28:36):
I went to Home Depot, I tookclasses, I learned how to rehab
from Home Depot, like I reallywas a seat of my pants girl and
I tell people now like, hey,listen, you can do anything in
the business, but you are goingto learn from mentors and
mistakes.
So if you have someone who'salready done it and already
invented the wheel, stop tryingto constantly reinvent the wheel
(28:57):
.
That's what everybody wants todo.
They go oh, I'm going to take alittle bit of this, a little
bit of that and I'm going to putmy own thing together.
And that's why people fail.
But if you have someone likeyou that says, but if you have
someone like you that says, hey,I did all this work and now you
got to just make a decisionover there, I feel like that's
like the least riskiest thing.
Mike Zlotnik (29:17):
Yeah, I greatly appreciate your vote of
confidence and I'll tell youthis.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (29:22):
I'm a big fan of syndication.
Mike Zlotnik (29:24):
One of my favorite books is called Sometimes you
Win and Sometimes you Learn,john Maxwell.
He's one of the most famousbusiness writers of all times
and investing, like anythingelse, is a journey of learning.
You have to be learning.
I even have this expression.
I really love to ask thisquestion Whenever you are
(29:48):
getting ready to invest.
Are you learning to invest, areyou getting better, or are you
investing to learn?
It's both, it's always both.
You're investing to learn,you're actually putting your
hard-earned dollars intolearning and, on the same level,
length wavelength, when you are, you've actually invested into
(30:08):
anything.
You should be learning from it,even if it's making you a lot
of money, and you're going tolearn a whole lot more if the
investment goes south and you'regoing to lose money.
It's kind of interesting andfascinating how the world
operates.
We'll learn a lot more frommistakes than from successes,
but it's always about learning.
I'll just add one more thing.
I'm working on my second bookright now and I have a close
(30:31):
friend who's been giving mefeedback and I also play chess
and it's just kind of.
You know, I grew up in theformer USSR.
Everybody played chess there.
I'm a US citizen, us patriot.
I moved here in 89.
But when I grew up, you knowplaying chess, it was one thing
about chess that we all learn.
That game, that game.
How do you get better at thatgame?
It's a constant learning, bywatching and reading and
(30:54):
following the games of greatgrandmasters.
Like you said, you have to havea great mentor, somebody who
you feel is a good, experiencedleader, and your own mistakes,
your own games.
This is the most fascinatingthing about that journey is you
got to look at what you've doneand learn from your own
experience.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (31:12):
That's it.
That's it Okay.
So we're going to I love thatanalogy, and so we're going to
jump topics.
I want to find some more thingsout about you personally.
So what is your favorite bandof all time?
Mike Zlotnik (31:24):
Band, I would say Beatles.
I'm kind of old, I'm not thatold, but I really like Beatles.
I don't know what to tell you.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (31:33):
How old are you?
Mike Zlotnik (31:35):
I'm 53.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (31:37):
I am 66.
You're a baby.
I do love the Beatles, though.
There's just something aboutthe Beatles.
So when they came around in the60s, I would have just been
like 10, just a little girl.
I was just like, oh, theBeatles.
But you know the Beatles, theyreally did change.
They're one of the bands thatchanged the face of the earth
(31:59):
and I love the Beatles.
Mike Zlotnik (32:01):
My oldest sister was listening to them and she's
14 years older than me and forsome reason, you know, everybody
played Beatles.
Beatles were Beatles and evenyears after you still you know.
Turn on, we all live in theyellow submarine or one of the
other songs.
It's just kind of like Iconnected.
That's all I can say.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (32:20):
Yeah, no, I love it.
I love the Beatles.
I've got grandkids, so ourgrandkids.
My son has four kids, so wehave a five, a six and a nine
and a 10.
So my husband and I are reallybig into music and we both
graduated high school in theseventies.
So we play a lot of music likeall the time.
When the kids are here, we justplay music all the time, and we
started, so we're teaching themabout music.
(32:43):
Well, as we started listeningto music like later than the
seventies and the eighties youknow they, they say the Fs and
the 80s.
You know they, they say thef-word and all these songs
there's so much cursing.
It's like, oh my god, we can'tlet these kids learn this music.
So we're back, like starting atthe Beatles and working through
to the 70s, because the musicwas good, it was simple, there
was no cursing and they can singit and not you, you know, slip
(33:08):
it in some F word or somethinglike all the table swift stuff.
So my kids love the Beatles, mylittle grandkids they love the
Beatles.
Mike Zlotnik (33:17):
You know how much it resonates with me.
I almost never swear.
Some people swear all the timeand it's getting ridiculous.
And when I hear one of my kids,you know, use one of those you
know words to say do you hear itfrom?
Do you hear it from me?
Do you hear it from mom?
Do you hear it from the parents?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (33:34):
Music.
They hear it from the music.
Mike Zlotnik (33:38):
Well, that's part of the problem and I guess my
deepest apologies.
Do you have to get that?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (33:46):
No, I don you have to get that?
Mike Zlotnik (33:51):
No, I don't have to get that.
I should have disconnected thatphone.
My deepest apologies, so we'llgo back.
Yeah, so the recent music.
You're right, the rap has alittle and other flavors has a
little too much of it.
And listen, I grew up withoutit and I I tell my kids do you
(34:12):
really need that?
Can you say the same thingwithout those words at?
Least maybe it's a culture.
I don't know what, what I?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (34:19):
don't know I, my kids, don't cuss very much
and they know I don't like it.
So once in a while, if they doand they'll go, oh I'm sorry.
And it's like listen, you guysare full grown, you're all in
your 30s, you, but they'll stillapologize to me if they curse
accidentally.
And so I thought with Bill, Ithought you know, there's a lot
of great music out, but after,like in the 80s, they started
throwing in just basic words,like you know that.
(34:40):
Well, not the F word came in,but even just like damn or just,
I don't want to teach him any,any songs with any cursing.
I don't want to teach them anysongs with any cursing.
And then, of course, now it'slike poof.
Mike Zlotnik (34:51):
It's everywhere yeah.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (34:51):
I can't even listen to most of the music
anymore.
I mean, the effort's just outthere on everything.
It's like you really can't singa song without.
Why is that?
Mike Zlotnik (35:02):
So my kids when they go to school, we're a
different generation, maybe theyounger generation, they tell
their teachers like oh, I loveBryan Adams.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (35:10):
Teach us like oh, I love brian adams, I love
queen, I love the beatles, Ilove this, I love that, I like
heart and all my grandkids.
They can probably name 50 songsthat they can sing verbatim
from all these bands from the60s and the 70s.
Like where do you learn that?
They're like my mimi and pappyare teaching me about the good
music.
Like they'll learn the rest ofit later on down the road.
It's not coming from over here.
So yeah, I'm.
I'm just like so I love theBeatles.
(35:33):
I appreciate people that lovethe Beatles, cause even though
you know they're a long time,some people are like, oh yeah,
that was a hundred years ago.
It's like, no, that was thatchanged that changed the music?
Like that, literally, theBeatles and Elvis were like two
of the top people that changedthe entire trajectory of music.
Mike Zlotnik (35:48):
I agree, I love them both.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (35:50):
All right.
What's your favorite food?
What do you like to eat?
Mike Zlotnik (35:55):
That's a tough question.
I like Thai food.
I don't know what else to tellyou.
I like Pad Thai.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (36:03):
As far as we are up in the mountains, we are
really in a very isolated areaof the mountains.
We've got a handful ofrestaurants I mean like maybe
five, and one is is just like a,where everybody goes for
breakfast and lunch.
You know closes at two, thecutthroat cafe.
We have a chinese restaurantand we have a thai food
restaurant and we just got anindian food and I was like, look
(36:25):
at us up here in the mountainshaving all this different kind
of food up here, because it'sjust been hamburgers and hot
dogs most of the time I've livedhere.
So I'm so happy.
Mike Zlotnik (36:37):
You're happy you got another variety.
I live in Brooklyn.
This is a million options, nota joke.
A million options left andright.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (36:46):
Not up here.
We've had a Subway for likelike 15 years and we just got a
couple of restaurants.
So I'm like, oh, thank you Lord, we have some food, all right.
So I'm going to ask you aquestion, if you were.
So you go to some events, right?
You speak, you get up on stage,you talk about your Big Mike
fun.
So when you're walking onto astage and the people, the
(37:08):
promoters, are playing a song tointroduce big Mike, what song
are they playing for you?
Mike Zlotnik (37:17):
It's a good question.
I'm not a hundred percent sure,depending on the conference
Sometimes yeah.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (37:21):
What song?
What's your song?
This is the song people shouldbe playing when I walk on stage.
Mike Zlotnik (37:29):
I don't have a wonderful answer.
I don't have a wonderful answeron this one.
Um I, I wish I I had a.
Um, uh, the right song.
I say I, nothing comes to mind.
I mean I wish, uh, I had abetter answer it doesn't have to
.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (37:44):
Most people can't think of anything, so I
thought about it and I was likeyou know what I would play?
Mike Zlotnik (37:48):
queen, we are the champions, we, here we are, we
are you know, that song came tomind and I was gonna say it, but
, uh, you said it and I didn'twant to say we're the champions.
It's kind of recognition of, ofoverall success.
But I'll tell you, um, where itreally kind of feels that way
my, my third girl, is aprofessional figure skater and
(38:08):
synchronized figure skating andwe competed.
We were in Colorado, we were inColorado multiple times.
Colorado Springs had a coupleof nationals there and the team
is really, really excellent.
Last year they took second inthe United States, third in the
world and yes, for her team Iwould be delighted to play.
We are the champions For thebig mic.
(38:30):
It's okay, I'm okay with one ofthese more relaxing classical
music.
Play some Mozart, get peopleinto one of the classical.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (38:40):
I love classical music.
We have serious radio, so Ilisten to classical a lot.
It's just so relaxing.
Classical is nice, okay.
So two more questions.
So what can we?
What can the D'Wonderful familydo?
What could we do for you rightnow that would help you reach
the next level of your businessthat you're trying to get to?
(39:01):
What can we do?
How can we help you?
Mike Zlotnik (39:05):
Well, you're too kind and it's a two-way street,
so the fact that you asked firstI'm eternally grateful.
There's really nothing else youneed to do.
The opportunity to speak withyou is already great, and if you
get some folks who reach outwith some interest to do
something in commercial realestate passively, I'm happy for
(39:27):
any potential introduction.
Most of our business isactually relational.
We get a lot of referrals andintroductions, so that's all we
can do.
We can serve our friends and ifyou're becoming a friend,
that's already a great help.
So I don't know how else to putit.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (39:46):
They can go to bigmikefundcom and they can
at least get started and say,hey, I saw you on Wonderful and
I want to talk.
Mike Zlotnik (39:55):
Yes.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (39:56):
Because you know the whole thing about like
podcasting is like.
You know, I want my people toknow you, your people are going
to know me and you know we workin a business where we it's not
a one man business.
It's like we succeed wheneveryone succeeds.
Mike Zlotnik (40:12):
Agreed, it's all about the network and the team,
but you know a lot of peopledon't believe that.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (40:17):
A lot of people don't like oh, it's all
about me, me, me it's like.
No, I am of.
The dream work makes the teamwork.
Mentality Team work makes thedream work.
Mike Zlotnik (40:33):
Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you this A lot of the
deals we do, even commercialdeals do you think we do them
alone?
Absolutely not.
We actually have strongpartners when we look at a deal.
One of the things we'veinstituted is essentially
external kind of review, and wehave other folks who look at the
deals and tell us yeah, yeah,yeah, you think it's a good deal
, but it's not, and here's why.
So we welcome wisdom from folkswho have value to add and some
thoughts.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (40:54):
Okay.
So we're going to send peepsyour way.
So all of you listening, ifyou're like, hey, I'm interested
in some syndication right hereis a great place to start.
I feel good about recommendingthis man, so do that Now.
If you have enjoyed watching thepodcast today, I want you to go
and like and subscribe andleave me a five-star review.
(41:16):
Our podcast can't grow and geta million downloads and all
those great things without you.
So I appreciate you, Iappreciate when you spend time.
I tell you guys this every weekTime is your most valuable
asset.
So when you spend an hour ofyour time with me, I feel really
honored that you did thatbecause you know when your time
(41:36):
runs out.
Well, you know your time runsout.
So I appreciate you spendingyour time and your effort and
your energy.
So if you had fun, you learnedsomething you liked, both of us
just give me a five star review,a like and a follow and share
with somebody else, okay.
So one last thing for you, mike,is I want you to give us a word
of wisdom, but only one singleword.
(41:58):
A word Predictability.
Oh, okay, hang on, let me writethis down.
I like that word.
So now what we do is.
I'm going to ask you in amoment what that means to you.
(42:20):
At the end of every show Ialways have the guests, uh, and
I actually just have peopleleave a word, because you know,
sometimes you have people like,hey, leave us with a parting
word, and then they'll go on andtalk for 15 more minutes.
So now I'm like I just want aword, but you know, sometimes
you have people like, hey, leaveus with a parting word, and
then they'll go on and talk for15 more minutes.
So now I'm like I just want aword, but I don't tell people in
advance.
I don't want them thinkingabout the word while you and I
are talking and getting to knoweach other.
So that was a good word.
So what, my wonderful familydoes?
(42:43):
I tell them to write on thesticky put on your bathroom
mirror and every day you'rebrushing your teeth, that's your
word.
Say it over and overpredictability, predictability,
predictability that's our wordof the week.
So what does that mean to you?
Mike Zlotnik (42:58):
It's investing in, whatever you do, maybe a
business or real estate oranything that is close to your
heart, where you could getpredictability of outcome.
There are no guarantees, therecan be variants of outcomes, but
achieving predictability is agood goal.
It means stability, it meansalmost.
(43:24):
When I think about investing, Ithink about predictability of
outcome.
That's the best way to thinkabout it.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (43:29):
I love it, I love it, I love it, and you know
that's part of investing.
I mean, if you learn all thetools and follow all the right
people, you can predict that youhave a pretty good chance of a
good outcome.
Mike Zlotnik (43:43):
Yeah, in general, that's the goal.
That's the goal and, as I saidin the past, there's always
possibilities and things can gobetter or worse than you hope
and expect, but the goal shouldbe predictability, and that
implies many other things, butif you keep that goal in mind,
it may help your investmentjourney.
If you're looking for a lot ofexcitement, you can go buy
(44:06):
Magnificent Seven, buy crypto,whatever you feel like you want
to get excitement, but that'sheavily speculation and it's the
opposite of the investing.
Investing is you're trying toreduce the excitement and
increase predictability.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (44:19):
Agreed, agreed.
Okay, I love that.
I love it, everybody.
We love predictability, so Iwant to thank you so much for
sharing your time with me today.
Like I just said to the folks,listening time is really
valuable, so I really appreciateit when anyone takes time out
of their day to spend time withme and everyone dwonderfulcom.
(44:45):
Oh, and listen, make sure yougo to my website and take my
real estate investing quiz I'vegot a brand new quiz up there
and see where you're doing andwhere you stand in the real
estate business.
So take the quiz.
It's super fun and we'll beback next week, same bat time,
same bat channel.
And remember that the truth isin the red letters.
All right, everybody.
Thank you, mike.
Thank you Ciao.
it didn't say this is being recorded.
Okay.
It says recording, okay.
So sorry, you guys, you'regonna have to cut the first part
of this off.
You just says this is beingrecorded.
So I just want to make triplesure recording, okay, all right.
Okay, christy, y'all guys cutthe first part off.
This baby says this is beingrecorded.
So I just want to make triplesure I'm recording, okay, all
right.
Okay, chrissy, y'all got to cutthe first part off this baby.
(01:28):
Hey everybody, welcome to themost Dwanderful real estate
podcast ever.
I'm your host, Dwan BentTwyford.
I am America's most soughtafter real estate investor and I
am really super excited thatyou are here with me today.
Our motto over here atDwanderful is people before
profits, so if that's somethingthat resonates with you, then
(01:51):
I'm your girl.
You're here at the right time.
We got a great guest.
You're going to fall in lovewith him today too, and so the
way I got Dwanderful is I tookmy, took my name, Dwan and
wonderful, and I made a new word.
So you are now in theDwan-der-ful universe.
My social medias areDwan-der-ful at everything
(02:11):
Instagram, wherever, just allthings.
Just go find Dwan-der-ful Alsowebsite Dwan-der-fulcom.
So I am literally everywhereand I have some good news for
those of you that might be newlisteners.
We just reached a milliondownloads a couple of months ago
, so I was super excited to bein like the million download
club.
So now I'm going to see howfast we can get to two million.
(02:33):
But I can't do that without you, all right.
So today I have Mike I'm goingto make sure I say it right
Zlotnick, mike Zlotnick, we, Ihave Mike.
I'm going to make sure I say itright Zlotnick, mike Zlotnick.
We were just talking before Igot on here.
I was like man, I swear I'vemet him.
Maybe not if I met you, mike,but I know your name.
So I'm like super excited totalk to you and get to know you.
So this is Mike Zlotnick.
So he's our wicked smart guytoday.
(02:55):
So how are you, big Mike?
Mike Zlotnik (02:59):
I'm wonderful, I'm Dwanderful.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (03:02):
Dwanderful.
See, you are Dwanderful.
Now can I call you Big Mike,Because I really like that Big
Mike.
Mike Zlotnik (03:08):
Yeah, people do call me Big Mike.
I am 6'4", I'm a big fellow andpeople have called me Big Mike
for many years.
I'm good with that.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (03:15):
I like it, though I like it.
Big Mike sets you apart.
So yeah, got Big Mike, andDwan-der-ful People will
remember who we are.
Mike Zlotnik (03:22):
That's right.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (03:23):
So here is what we do over at Dwan-der-ful.
I hate going through thetypical.
Here's your 10 questions, blah,blah, blah, because everybody
does that.
So I like to throw my guests tothe wolves and basically I just
want you to, in like two orthree sentences, tell us what
you do, give me all your socialmedias and then I'm going to ask
you some questions and we'regoing to find out how we came
(03:47):
here today.
So we want to know what is yourdeal.
Mike Zlotnik (03:52):
I'll keep it very simple.
So we bring the wonderfulcommercial real estate deals to
passive investors.
This is our whole journey.
I like to use this word.
I should probably trademark it.
We marry money and opportunity,at least initially.
We make money, date theopportunity, but we find
(04:16):
wonderful commercial real estatedeals this is our genius zone,
our specialty real estate dealsthis is our genius zone, our
specialty.
And then we have many passiveinvestors who don't have the
time or desire to do full, deepdue diligence and they reach out
and they want to get into greatcommercial deals that are
income focused and downsideprotected and invest in
(04:39):
industrial, open air, shopping,multifamily, you name it.
We do it all.
So we basically marry money andopportunity.
That's the best way to put it.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (04:48):
You should trademark that.
I started short sales back like30 years before short sales
ever had a name and anyone everknew them.
I kind of stumbled into them byaccident and they were still
calling them things likediscounting notes, like there
wasn't a term yet.
So I trademarked short salesand then the queen of short
sales.
And so it's like hey, if youwant to know about short sales,
(05:12):
I originated it.
I helped bring an entireindustry into the real estate
market.
So marry money to opportunity.
Things like that are worthgetting a little trademark
because I need a little tm afterit and like that's what you're
known for.
So if I were you I would do it,I mean thank you for your
(05:33):
wonderful advice.
I I probably will do thatbecause, if not, someone else is
going to go.
Hey, I really like that merrymoney.
They're going to start usingyour stuff and, like, I just
recently had a girl that put upa bunch of YouTube videos
calling herself short-tailedqueen, and my attorney wrote her
a letter and she pulled herentire site down.
It's like don't be encroachingon my stuff, girl.
(05:55):
I've been doing this 35 years.
You're a newbie?
Okay, now, I love everything Iheard about that statement.
And how do people find you onsocial media?
Mike Zlotnik (06:06):
Now we're going to get really cheesy.
So, big Mike, you got toremember that I actually run
funds.
So BigMikeFund.
com, that easy.
We have corporate website.
But the easiest way to rememberBigMikeikefund.
com and if you misspell it, youforget the D at the end then you
go to bigmikefund.
com.
(06:28):
I promise it's not a kinky site.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (06:34):
Big Mike Fund .
Well, you can't get any easierthan that.
That is easy.
Okay Now, first of all, I lovethat you talked about commercial
.
I am in a commercial phase inmy real estate investing career.
My husband and I are basicallyrehabbing a town in Clinton,
iowa.
I've done only two or threecommercial deals and in the last
five years we bought 20buildings.
Mike Zlotnik (06:55):
That's that wonderful.
Again, you're becoming thequeen of the town.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (07:02):
We can talk about that on your podcast.
And it's funny because Istarted investing.
So my daughter is 36.
I started investing when shewas just a baby.
So, like I've been saying,let's say I have 35 solid years.
And then that whole entire timeI bought, like you know, some
of those neighborhoods that takeold houses and they make them
(07:22):
light commercial and I had anoffice I had like two little and
that was it I was at.
And then about five years agomy husband and I were like you
know, we should buy somecommercials.
Yeah, you know, that'd be fun,let's do that.
And it no, it wasn't evenanything I thought about.
I didn't plan it.
It kind of came across our pathand sort of an opportunity that
just presented itself.
That was basically too good tobe true.
(07:44):
And now I'm just like man, Ishould have been doing this
decades ago.
This is so much fun.
Mike Zlotnik (07:50):
Yeah, the easiest way to think about this it's
economy of scale.
I'll just add one quick comment.
I have a lot of friends who areheavy residential guys and
girls.
They do hundreds of deals peryear.
They own hundreds of deals peryear.
They own hundreds of properties.
Let me say thousands, becausein residential if you own a
thousand single-family houses,that's a huge number.
I'm sure some of them may beinto thousands.
(08:10):
You know what the biggest issueis.
It's difficult, it's hard, it'shard to scale with these
turnkey or rental portfolios andpeople come to a realization
that they often need to exitsome of them and roll the money
into something that's scalable,like large multifamily or
industrial or shopping, whereyou can deploy a lot more
(08:31):
capital, be a lot more passiveand not worry about tenants and
toilets.
Again, nothing negative to sayabout having an empire of
residential property.
It's just harder to manage.
You need to have almost you'rerunning a business of
residential property.
It's just harder to manage.
You need to have almost you'rerunning a business of managing
that.
With commercial properties.
It's somewhat easier witheconomy of scale, and some of
them are I don't want to callself-manage, but they're way,
(08:53):
way easier to operate.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (08:55):
Now see, I hear people say things to me
like oh, I don't know why youguys own so much commercial
space, commercial's dead, peoplearen't opening businesses and
whatever.
Now, in our little town, like Isaid, we own a lot of buildings
but we have people rentingspaces and putting in antique
malls and putting in coffeeshops and putting in clothing
boutiques and restaurants, andit's like I don't know when
(09:18):
people say, oh, commercial's sorisky, people don't need to rent
anymore, people work from home.
It's like that's not true.
There's a ton of people that dobusinesses that need like a
brick and mortar.
Mike Zlotnik (09:30):
Yeah, you're absolutely right, absolutely
right.
There's a few things, few greatopportunities.
One, people need to livesomewhere, so multifamily
investments seem to be prettysticky investments seem to be
pretty sticky Long-term.
As population grows,multifamily seems to be one of
those asset classes thatprobably is needed forever.
Then you go into open-airshopping and you go into
(09:52):
industrial.
We go to a number of otherstrategies and I'll tell you a
couple of words about open-airshopping.
We've been doing this for manyyears.
It's been a huge contrarianplay and everyone talked about
Amazon and e-commerce is goingto destroy them and guess what?
They haven't built any open-airshopping.
Now the malls have gone the wayof a dinosaur.
It's very different, theseenclosed malls with Sears and
(10:14):
other basically big boxretailers.
But open-air shoppingexperiential type of
service-oriented retail doesreally well for a few reasons.
One, post-covid opening, peoplewanted to come out and enjoy
restaurants outdoors, have goodtime.
Two, there's been no supply andnumber of pure e-tailers.
(10:38):
I'll give you one example WarbyParker we're both wearing
glasses.
My wife is actually anoptometrist of pure e-tailers.
I'll give you one example WarbyParker we're both wearing
glasses.
My wife is actually anoptometrist.
So open-air shopping plazashave seen 600 new stores for
Warby Parker.
Warby Parker used to be pureinternet play.
So what's really crazy?
Some of these e-tailers havegone the way of a physical store
(11:00):
because they need both theyneed the mobile app, they need
the e-commerce website and theyneed a physical presence so
people can actually try on theseeyeglasses and see how they
look in a live mirror instead oflooking at a computer.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (11:12):
That's why I buy mine.
I wouldn't buy them if Icouldn't try them on.
Mike Zlotnik (11:16):
Exactly, especially women.
My wife is an optometrist andthey've got to try them on.
They've got to see how theylook and feel before they buy.
So from that perspective, manystrategies have gone.
The demand has grown for retailand there's been almost no new
supply.
The new supply for retail hasbeen very, very limited.
People haven't built them.
(11:37):
They've built a lot of otherthings, but they said not retail
.
So it's been a great contrarianplay.
It continues to do really well.
Another very interesting playindustrial.
We've got Donald Trump.
He is reindustrializing America, made in America again.
Right, american manufacturingand other strategies require
(11:57):
more industrial properties.
There's one strategy thatcontinues to do really well.
There are a number of otheropportunities, but I'm going to
shut up and let you all stop fora moment.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (12:06):
See, I agree with you, though, because you
know, every time we buy anotherbuilding, people are like, oh,
my guy's buying commercialCommercial's dead.
Nobody wants a store anymore.
It's like, well, that's nottrue.
I mean, granted, I certainlytake advantage of Amazon.
It's like, why do I need todrive?
Because I live in the mountains.
I'm in the mountains ofColorado at 9,000 feet, so it's
(12:29):
a 45 minute thing for me to goto the grocery store and back.
So it's like if I need twothings, I'm just going to get it
on Amazon and it'll be heretomorrow.
I mean, I get it.
But you know, like we put in anantique mall, we have like 200
people a day that come throughthere because people like to buy
antiques.
You know coffee shops and weserve those energy drinks and
(12:49):
those bobas and like all thatcrazy stuff.
And just so many people.
Because people still want to goin, people still want to go out
to eat, people still want towalk up and down.
You know, for blocks.
I love those open-air shoppingmalls that they have.
We have one down in Denvercalled Belmar.
It's so great.
Even in the winter it's packed.
People don't care, they're justout walking and eating and
(13:12):
drinking and doing all the stufflike that.
So whenever I have people say,oh, why do you get so much on
commercials?
It's like I don't thinkcommercial's dead.
I mean, maybe for some officesa lot of offices do have people
that work from home now or workonline but for the things that
we can feel and touch, we stillwant to feel and touch those
things.
Mike Zlotnik (13:31):
At least I do.
Yeah, you are absolutely right.
Office is a danger zone, so westay away from office for the
reasons that you mentioned.
I don't know what the futuredemand will look like, and I
live in New York City and wehave a lot of empty buildings
and some tenants are locked intheir long leases and they want
to get out because they don'tneed as much space, as a lot of
(13:53):
people continue to work fromhome.
So I would say, office, be verycareful.
At least from my observation,there's some redevelopment
concepts in the office, but it'shard to redevelop.
I've looked into some of themand you take a big office
building.
All the plumbing, electric,everything else is off, so
redevelopment is pretty hard.
However, all the other thingsthat I mentioned open-air
(14:14):
shopping, industrial multifamily, a number of other niche
strategies continue to be reallyattractive and they have
economy of scale.
So yeah, so CRE commercial realestate in general has many
different flavors.
They're different locations andall real estate is local.
So for one town you may beoverbuilt, for another town you
(14:34):
may be undersupplied.
You really have to payattention where you're at, what
are the demographics, how theeconomy is doing and does it
need any more retail, and ifit's got enough and there's no
more place to build, it'sprobably got a great long-term
play.
Office again is something thatwe stay out of it and I can't
give any other feedback otherthan we are very concerned about
(14:55):
office.
We love industrial, open-airshopping, multifamily.
These strategies are a lot morepredictable.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (15:01):
Yeah, now one of our buildings has downtown.
It's all retail downtown.
Second floor is all apartments,third floor is all office, and
the only people that are upthere are people that have been
there for like 200 years.
So I agree, okay, so now youmarry people to money, marry
money to opportunity.
Sorry, marry money toopportunity.
So I'm coming along.
(15:24):
I just find you.
I was like, hey, I heard BigBang on the most wonderful real
estate podcast ever and I wantto buy something.
What are you going to do for me?
What do you want from me andwhat do you do?
How do you marry?
Mike Zlotnik (15:42):
some of that money over here.
So we're not brokers.
Just to be very clear.
We don't broker real estate.
If you have a significant check, you want to write and you want
to buy a multifamily complex weknow a lot of people If you
want to invest in a project, youhave a lot of capital, we can
have that conversation, butthat's not a typical
conversation.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (15:57):
Just real quick.
Do you syndicate?
Mike Zlotnik (16:00):
Yes.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (16:01):
Okay, okay, so I know a lot of people we
syndicate.
Mike Zlotnik (16:05):
Most of our deals are syndications, so real quick
for people that don't know whatthat means?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (16:11):
what does that mean?
Because a lot of people I don'tyou know, honestly, I didn't
know what syndicating was like adecade ago and I've already
been investing 20 years.
Mike Zlotnik (16:20):
Sure.
So the easiest way tounderstand syndication you have
typically one property, maybetwo properties as a package, and
you have many investors.
So you have general partnersand limited partners.
Typically general partners arethe managers of a deal they are
sometimes called sponsors.
And then you have investors orlimited partners.
These folks write a check andthey write along the sponsor in
(16:42):
the deal and the deal may bevalue-add, may be performing.
There's a strategy in the deal,there's a business plan.
So typically the capital comesfrom investors to a degree.
Look, we've done some dealswhere the sponsor or the general
partner puts as much as 30% andsome deals they only put in 5%
(17:04):
or 10%.
The rest of the money comesfrom limited partners and
investors wind up providingmajority of the capital and it's
typically leveraged with a bankloan.
The leverage depends on thetype of deal.
Open-air shopping industrialstypically have low leverage,
around 60%, maybe 65%, whilemultifamily goes 70%, in some
(17:26):
cases 75% leverage.
The project gets acquired, it'sowned by the partnership and
the general partner runs theproject through its business
plan and then it cash flows onthe way.
So they have distributions.
General partner is responsibleto make the distributions,
provide financial statements,provide operating updates and
investors just enjoy the realestate passively.
(17:49):
They get the cash flow, theyget tax benefits in the form of
depreciation, they get operatingupdates and when the property
sells, the profits are splitaccording to the terms of the
offering.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (18:01):
Nice.
So I can just come in and sayhey, I've got.
What's your minimum investmentfor a syndication?
Mike Zlotnik (18:08):
Typically $100,000 .
Dwan Bent-Twyford (18:10):
Okay, so now?
So I'm going to ask somequestions.
Other people may not understand, but we'll explain to them.
So do they have to beaccredited and they have to have
$100,000?
Mike Zlotnik (18:22):
Generally speaking , yes, most of our deals are to
accredited investors.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (18:26):
Only Do we have any opportunities for
non-accredited.
Mike Zlotnik (18:31):
We have some friendly partners who have some
funds that may takenon-accredited.
We in general ourselves do onlyaccredited only.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (18:41):
Okay.
And so explain to me, I'm new,I've got 100 grand.
I say, hey, I want to give yousome money.
And so explain to me, I'm new,I've got a hundred grand.
I say, hey, I want to give yousome money and you go.
Mike Zlotnik (18:50):
Are you accredited and I go?
I don't know.
Have every expectation tocontinue to make that.
Or you have net worth of amillion dollars outside of the
primary residence.
Your home doesn't count.
(19:10):
You may live in a $20 millionhome and own it with cash
outright, but you got to have atleast a million dollars outside
of that.
And that's the generaldefinition of a credit investor.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (19:24):
Okay.
So if someone being accreditedis that reason, I'm going to
think how to phrase this.
Is that because if they losethe money, it doesn't bankrupt
them?
Is it because they have ahigher investing risk factor?
Or is that for you guys, forsome kind of protection in case
(19:45):
they just go?
Eh, I want out, I don't want todo this anymore.
I don't like it.
Like why do they have to beaccredited?
Mike Zlotnik (19:52):
It's SEC rules.
We don't invent the rules butwe have to follow these rules.
I know Security and ExchangeCommission has put together very
simple definitions.
They protect mom and pop, momand pop, grandmas, grandpas
investors who don't have a lotof money but they hear about
bright and shiny objects, somereally interesting deal.
They write a check, the dealgoes south and if they're not
accredited and they weresupposed to be accredited they
(20:15):
can go complain to SEC.
But in general that is designedto protect small investors
against what is viewed to behigher risk investments.
Again, alternative investments,real estate many private equity
investments typically gothrough these 506 offerings.
All 506 stands for is it's aregulation.
(20:38):
D 506 is a part of therequirements of the regulations.
So 506C is accredited investors.
Only 506B can include somenon-accredited.
These are technical terms.
To make a long story short, ifyou're a non-accredited investor
, hopefully you can get tobecome an accreditor soon enough
and be able to write a check.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (20:57):
Is it a long process for somebody?
Mike Zlotnik (21:01):
No, by the way, we don't.
And do you help?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (21:03):
them, or at least give them the person that
can accredit them.
Mike Zlotnik (21:07):
Any CPA or an attorney, a licensed party, can
write an accreditation letter.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (21:11):
We can give them an accreditation letter
Even like just a regular, like Icould call my CPA day and say,
hey, I need to have a lettersaying I'm accredited.
I want to invest with Big Mike.
Mike Zlotnik (21:21):
That's exactly.
That's the best thing to do.
People use their attorneys orCPA.
Why?
Because I don't want to seeyour financials.
In fact, if you don't know howto get accredited, we'll
probably send you to a websitelike verifyinvestorcom or
similar.
There are websites that canverify accreditation Literally.
Lawyers will write a letter.
You show them either the assetsor the income and they'll write
(21:45):
a letter for you for like 60bucks if you don't want to
bother your CPA.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (21:49):
Oh, that's nice.
Yeah, see, that's what you know.
I've had a few people on,obviously, over the years that
people have to be accredited andI always forget to ask how does
the person get accredited?
Because you know, my podcast isgeared more towards a lot of
newer investors.
Like I like to take the newbiesand say look, there's 10,000
people out here that you canfollow.
(22:10):
Everyone's got a shiny object.
Find one person, make thatperson your mentor, because you
learn from mentors or mistakes.
So if you want to invest handsoff, they need to work with
somebody like you.
If you want to wholesale andrehab and do some fun things,
you probably should come overhere and look at me and I have
talked to other people that aresyndicated and I always keep
(22:32):
forgetting to ask, like, howeasy is it to get accredited?
Mike Zlotnik (22:35):
So really— Accreditation letter is super
easy.
We've seen many, many, manyinvestors.
I go to a number of masterminds.
One of the groups I go to has acheesy name called the
Collective Genius and a lot ofthese guys and girls.
They all wholesale, wholesale.
They flip houses, they rehabhouses and what's really
interesting is that many of themover time, graduate and they
(22:57):
get better and better and theybecome accredited and they start
investing with us.
So I'm not trying to tell youanything you don't know.
You start one place and as yougrow and your journey evolves
and you get more successful, youbecome accredited and you can
get a letter from a CPA any CPAand attorney who wants to write
you a letter or go one of thesepaid services for 60 bucks you
can have an accreditation letter.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (23:17):
And see my like.
I am 66 years old, so my aunts,uncles, parents are all in
their 80s and they're allsitting on just gobs of money.
They don't have any idea whatto do with it.
You know it's like and I'm likehey, you could invest this, you
could invest that, get yourselfaccredited, like there's still
things people can do.
There's just so many peoplesitting on so much money that
(23:40):
don't want to physically go gettheir hands dirty.
So I'm always telling them hey,if that's what you want to do,
you should work with somebodythat like what you guys have,
like the Big Bank Fund, get intosome commercial and get into
some multi-unit.
Multi-units are always great.
I mean, I know a lot of peoplethat do multi-units.
There's a lot of things peoplecan do and they can invest
(24:02):
without having to physicallylike run the show.
Mike Zlotnik (24:05):
Yeah yeah, we do this all day long and I'll tell
you the most important elementsto making those decisions is you
got to basically get to know,like and trust whoever you're
going to invest with.
This is the jack of the horse.
You have to make sure first youfigure out who do you want to
invest with.
You do your due diligence, doyour research, get comfortable
(24:27):
and then you start looking atthe deals.
The deal is the horse and thejockey is first.
So keep it simple.
If you can get comfortable with,you know it could be a fund
manager, it could be asyndicator, it could be one of
these folks that has deepexpertise and always remember
basic principles Continue todiversify, continue to grow a
(24:49):
relationship over time.
You can even diversify overtime too.
There's so many ways todiversify, so you can look at
one deal that's one part of thecountry and then you can look at
another deal which is indifferent part of the country.
You could look at a multifamilyversus an industrial.
So just keep in mind nobodyknows the future if you've got a
(25:34):
crystal ball.
I was just reading another bookor listening.
There was a quote about thecrystal ball.
If you're going to follow.
If you're going to live by thecrystal ball, you're going to
eat grass off the floor orsomething like this.
Nobody knows.
That's the bottom line.
When you invest, you have tothink about the possibilities.
(25:55):
Not every deal may be a homerun, but at the same time, if
you do it the right way, youcould have phenomenal benefits
of investing in commercial realestate.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (26:07):
And the thing about working with someone like
you is you guys do the work,you do the research, you do the
homework, you do everything forthem, so they don't have to be
like oh I hope I didn't notcross a t or I forgot to dot an
I, because that's your job is todo that for them, so they can
step in with some confidencethat this is going to be a good
(26:28):
choice for me.
Mike Zlotnik (26:30):
Yeah, I appreciate the vote of confidence is what
we do right Day in and day out.
But I'm one of these people whowill tell you how it is.
If you expect no risk and youexpect perfection and you expect
to never lose money, keep yourmoney in the bank or US
Treasuries, everything has alittle bit of risk and you just
got to be comfortable tounderstand what you're investing
(26:52):
into the kind of the risksbenefits versus risk impact of
the.
So it's kind of funny.
I'm a big scholar of risk.
I really like to think aboutrisk and Howard Marks, a famous
investor, is one of the mostfamous folks out there, founder
(27:12):
of Oak Tree.
He said what is risk?
Risk is a possibility of a loss.
We think about it every day.
So we think about possibilityof a loss every day.
We're not looking to hitmassive home runs.
We would like to avoidsituations of losing money.
There's still possibility andthere are hidden risks.
One of the most examples youlive in mountains of Colorado,
(27:34):
right?
You haven't seen too manyearthquakes.
Well, but what if there is anearthquake of category seven
hits or something and nobodyever built for this?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (27:41):
Hey, listen, if Yellowstone blows up all of
us in the mountains, we're alldead.
Mike Zlotnik (27:46):
So there are real risks and there are some
theoretical risks, but thebottom line is I appreciate the
vote of confidence we continueto work and get better at
understanding risks and wealways look at the reward versus
risk, how things compare.
But we're not trying to go forthe most aggressive, bright and
shiny objects, but more of a Ilike to think of it downside
(28:08):
protected.
I would rather never to losemoney than make 10 home runs and
10 strikeouts, in a manner ofspeaking.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (28:15):
Now, see, I agree with you because, like I,
when I started off investingyears ago, there was nobody.
Well, there was no internet.
This I'm like.
I'm talking like 1990.
There was no internet, therewas no place to Google
everything, there was nobodytraveling through town doing
workshops and seminars.
Things didn't exist.
So I literally learned by theseat of my pants.
(28:36):
I went to Home Depot, I tookclasses, I learned how to rehab
from Home Depot, like I reallywas a seat of my pants girl and
I tell people now like, hey,listen, you can do anything in
the business, but you are goingto learn from mentors and
mistakes.
So if you have someone who'salready done it and already
invented the wheel, stop tryingto constantly reinvent the wheel
(28:57):
.
That's what everybody wants todo.
They go oh, I'm going to take alittle bit of this, a little
bit of that and I'm going to putmy own thing together.
And that's why people fail.
But if you have someone likeyou that says, but if you have
someone like you that says, hey,I did all this work and now you
got to just make a decisionover there, I feel like that's
like the least riskiest thing.
Mike Zlotnik (29:17):
Yeah, I greatly appreciate your vote of
confidence and I'll tell youthis.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (29:22):
I'm a big fan of syndication.
Mike Zlotnik (29:24):
One of my favorite books is called Sometimes you
Win and Sometimes you Learn,john Maxwell.
He's one of the most famousbusiness writers of all times
and investing, like anythingelse, is a journey of learning.
You have to be learning.
I even have this expression.
I really love to ask thisquestion Whenever you are
(29:48):
getting ready to invest.
Are you learning to invest, areyou getting better, or are you
investing to learn?
It's both, it's always both.
You're investing to learn,you're actually putting your
hard-earned dollars intolearning and, on the same level,
length wavelength, when you are, you've actually invested into
(30:08):
anything.
You should be learning from it,even if it's making you a lot
of money, and you're going tolearn a whole lot more if the
investment goes south and you'regoing to lose money.
It's kind of interesting andfascinating how the world
operates.
We'll learn a lot more frommistakes than from successes,
but it's always about learning.
I'll just add one more thing.
I'm working on my second bookright now and I have a close
(30:31):
friend who's been giving mefeedback and I also play chess
and it's just kind of.
You know, I grew up in theformer USSR.
Everybody played chess there.
I'm a US citizen, us patriot.
I moved here in 89.
But when I grew up, you knowplaying chess, it was one thing
about chess that we all learn.
That game, that game.
How do you get better at thatgame?
It's a constant learning, bywatching and reading and
(30:54):
following the games of greatgrandmasters.
Like you said, you have to havea great mentor, somebody who
you feel is a good, experiencedleader, and your own mistakes,
your own games.
This is the most fascinatingthing about that journey is you
got to look at what you've doneand learn from your own
experience.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (31:12):
That's it.
That's it Okay.
So we're going to I love thatanalogy, and so we're going to
jump topics.
I want to find some more thingsout about you personally.
So what is your favorite bandof all time?
Mike Zlotnik (31:24):
Band, I would say Beatles.
I'm kind of old, I'm not thatold, but I really like Beatles.
I don't know what to tell you.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (31:33):
How old are you?
Mike Zlotnik (31:35):
I'm 53.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (31:37):
I am 66.
You're a baby.
I do love the Beatles, though.
There's just something aboutthe Beatles.
So when they came around in the60s, I would have just been
like 10, just a little girl.
I was just like, oh, theBeatles.
But you know the Beatles, theyreally did change.
They're one of the bands thatchanged the face of the earth
(31:59):
and I love the Beatles.
Mike Zlotnik (32:01):
My oldest sister was listening to them and she's
14 years older than me and forsome reason, you know, everybody
played Beatles.
Beatles were Beatles and evenyears after you still you know.
Turn on, we all live in theyellow submarine or one of the
other songs.
It's just kind of like Iconnected.
That's all I can say.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (32:20):
Yeah, no, I love it.
I love the Beatles.
I've got grandkids, so ourgrandkids.
My son has four kids, so wehave a five, a six and a nine
and a 10.
So my husband and I are reallybig into music and we both
graduated high school in theseventies.
So we play a lot of music likeall the time.
When the kids are here, we justplay music all the time, and we
started, so we're teaching themabout music.
(32:43):
Well, as we started listeningto music like later than the
seventies and the eighties youknow they, they say the Fs and
the 80s.
You know they, they say thef-word and all these songs
there's so much cursing.
It's like, oh my god, we can'tlet these kids learn this music.
So we're back, like starting atthe Beatles and working through
to the 70s, because the musicwas good, it was simple, there
was no cursing and they can singit and not you, you know, slip
(33:08):
it in some F word or somethinglike all the table swift stuff.
So my kids love the Beatles, mylittle grandkids they love the
Beatles.
Mike Zlotnik (33:17):
You know how much it resonates with me.
I almost never swear.
Some people swear all the timeand it's getting ridiculous.
And when I hear one of my kids,you know, use one of those you
know words to say do you hear itfrom?
Do you hear it from me?
Do you hear it from mom?
Do you hear it from the parents?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (33:34):
Music.
They hear it from the music.
Mike Zlotnik (33:38):
Well, that's part of the problem and I guess my
deepest apologies.
Do you have to get that?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (33:46):
No, I don you have to get that?
Mike Zlotnik (33:51):
No, I don't have to get that.
I should have disconnected thatphone.
My deepest apologies, so we'llgo back.
Yeah, so the recent music.
You're right, the rap has alittle and other flavors has a
little too much of it.
And listen, I grew up withoutit and I I tell my kids do you
(34:12):
really need that?
Can you say the same thingwithout those words at?
Least maybe it's a culture.
I don't know what, what I?
Dwan Bent-Twyford (34:19):
don't know I, my kids, don't cuss very much
and they know I don't like it.
So once in a while, if they doand they'll go, oh I'm sorry.
And it's like listen, you guysare full grown, you're all in
your 30s, you, but they'll stillapologize to me if they curse
accidentally.
And so I thought with Bill, Ithought you know, there's a lot
of great music out, but after,like in the 80s, they started
throwing in just basic words,like you know that.
(34:40):
Well, not the F word came in,but even just like damn or just,
I don't want to teach him any,any songs with any cursing.
I don't want to teach them anysongs with any cursing.
And then, of course, now it'slike poof.
Mike Zlotnik (34:51):
It's everywhere yeah.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (34:51):
I can't even listen to most of the music
anymore.
I mean, the effort's just outthere on everything.
It's like you really can't singa song without.
Why is that?
Mike Zlotnik (35:02):
So my kids when they go to school, we're a
different generation, maybe theyounger generation, they tell
their teachers like oh, I loveBryan Adams.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (35:10):
Teach us like oh, I love brian adams, I love
queen, I love the beatles, Ilove this, I love that, I like
heart and all my grandkids.
They can probably name 50 songsthat they can sing verbatim
from all these bands from the60s and the 70s.
Like where do you learn that?
They're like my mimi and pappyare teaching me about the good
music.
Like they'll learn the rest ofit later on down the road.
It's not coming from over here.
So yeah, I'm.
I'm just like so I love theBeatles.
(35:33):
I appreciate people that lovethe Beatles, cause even though
you know they're a long time,some people are like, oh yeah,
that was a hundred years ago.
It's like, no, that was thatchanged that changed the music?
Like that, literally, theBeatles and Elvis were like two
of the top people that changedthe entire trajectory of music.
Mike Zlotnik (35:48):
I agree, I love them both.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (35:50):
All right.
What's your favorite food?
What do you like to eat?
Mike Zlotnik (35:55):
That's a tough question.
I like Thai food.
I don't know what else to tellyou.
I like Pad Thai.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (36:03):
As far as we are up in the mountains, we are
really in a very isolated areaof the mountains.
We've got a handful ofrestaurants I mean like maybe
five, and one is is just like a,where everybody goes for
breakfast and lunch.
You know closes at two, thecutthroat cafe.
We have a chinese restaurantand we have a thai food
restaurant and we just got anindian food and I was like, look
(36:25):
at us up here in the mountainshaving all this different kind
of food up here, because it'sjust been hamburgers and hot
dogs most of the time I've livedhere.
So I'm so happy.
Mike Zlotnik (36:37):
You're happy you got another variety.
I live in Brooklyn.
This is a million options, nota joke.
A million options left andright.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (36:46):
Not up here.
We've had a Subway for likelike 15 years and we just got a
couple of restaurants.
So I'm like, oh, thank you Lord, we have some food, all right.
So I'm going to ask you aquestion, if you were.
So you go to some events, right?
You speak, you get up on stage,you talk about your Big Mike
fun.
So when you're walking onto astage and the people, the
(37:08):
promoters, are playing a song tointroduce big Mike, what song
are they playing for you?
Mike Zlotnik (37:17):
It's a good question.
I'm not a hundred percent sure,depending on the conference
Sometimes yeah.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (37:21):
What song?
What's your song?
This is the song people shouldbe playing when I walk on stage.
Mike Zlotnik (37:29):
I don't have a wonderful answer.
I don't have a wonderful answeron this one.
Um I, I wish I I had a.
Um, uh, the right song.
I say I, nothing comes to mind.
I mean I wish, uh, I had abetter answer it doesn't have to
.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (37:44):
Most people can't think of anything, so I
thought about it and I was likeyou know what I would play?
Mike Zlotnik (37:48):
queen, we are the champions, we, here we are, we
are you know, that song came tomind and I was gonna say it, but
, uh, you said it and I didn'twant to say we're the champions.
It's kind of recognition of, ofoverall success.
But I'll tell you, um, where itreally kind of feels that way
my, my third girl, is aprofessional figure skater and
(38:08):
synchronized figure skating andwe competed.
We were in Colorado, we were inColorado multiple times.
Colorado Springs had a coupleof nationals there and the team
is really, really excellent.
Last year they took second inthe United States, third in the
world and yes, for her team Iwould be delighted to play.
We are the champions For thebig mic.
(38:30):
It's okay, I'm okay with one ofthese more relaxing classical
music.
Play some Mozart, get peopleinto one of the classical.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (38:40):
I love classical music.
We have serious radio, so Ilisten to classical a lot.
It's just so relaxing.
Classical is nice, okay.
So two more questions.
So what can we?
What can the D'Wonderful familydo?
What could we do for you rightnow that would help you reach
the next level of your businessthat you're trying to get to?
(39:01):
What can we do?
How can we help you?
Mike Zlotnik (39:05):
Well, you're too kind and it's a two-way street,
so the fact that you asked firstI'm eternally grateful.
There's really nothing else youneed to do.
The opportunity to speak withyou is already great, and if you
get some folks who reach outwith some interest to do
something in commercial realestate passively, I'm happy for
(39:27):
any potential introduction.
Most of our business isactually relational.
We get a lot of referrals andintroductions, so that's all we
can do.
We can serve our friends and ifyou're becoming a friend,
that's already a great help.
So I don't know how else to putit.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (39:46):
They can go to bigmikefundcom and they can
at least get started and say,hey, I saw you on Wonderful and
I want to talk.
Mike Zlotnik (39:55):
Yes.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (39:56):
Because you know the whole thing about like
podcasting is like.
You know, I want my people toknow you, your people are going
to know me and you know we workin a business where we it's not
a one man business.
It's like we succeed wheneveryone succeeds.
Mike Zlotnik (40:12):
Agreed, it's all about the network and the team,
but you know a lot of peopledon't believe that.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (40:17):
A lot of people don't like oh, it's all
about me, me, me it's like.
No, I am of.
The dream work makes the teamwork.
Mentality Team work makes thedream work.
Mike Zlotnik (40:33):
Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you this A lot of the
deals we do, even commercialdeals do you think we do them
alone?
Absolutely not.
We actually have strongpartners when we look at a deal.
One of the things we'veinstituted is essentially
external kind of review, and wehave other folks who look at the
deals and tell us yeah, yeah,yeah, you think it's a good deal
, but it's not, and here's why.
So we welcome wisdom from folkswho have value to add and some
thoughts.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (40:54):
Okay.
So we're going to send peepsyour way.
So all of you listening, ifyou're like, hey, I'm interested
in some syndication right hereis a great place to start.
I feel good about recommendingthis man, so do that Now.
If you have enjoyed watching thepodcast today, I want you to go
and like and subscribe andleave me a five-star review.
(41:16):
Our podcast can't grow and geta million downloads and all
those great things without you.
So I appreciate you, Iappreciate when you spend time.
I tell you guys this every weekTime is your most valuable
asset.
So when you spend an hour ofyour time with me, I feel really
honored that you did thatbecause you know when your time
(41:36):
runs out.
Well, you know your time runsout.
So I appreciate you spendingyour time and your effort and
your energy.
So if you had fun, you learnedsomething you liked, both of us
just give me a five star review,a like and a follow and share
with somebody else, okay.
So one last thing for you, mike,is I want you to give us a word
of wisdom, but only one singleword.
(41:58):
A word Predictability.
Oh, okay, hang on, let me writethis down.
I like that word.
So now what we do is.
I'm going to ask you in amoment what that means to you.
(42:20):
At the end of every show Ialways have the guests, uh, and
I actually just have peopleleave a word, because you know,
sometimes you have people like,hey, leave us with a parting
word, and then they'll go on andtalk for 15 more minutes.
So now I'm like I just want aword, but you know, sometimes
you have people like, hey, leaveus with a parting word, and
then they'll go on and talk for15 more minutes.
So now I'm like I just want aword, but I don't tell people in
advance.
I don't want them thinkingabout the word while you and I
are talking and getting to knoweach other.
So that was a good word.
So what, my wonderful familydoes?
(42:43):
I tell them to write on thesticky put on your bathroom
mirror and every day you'rebrushing your teeth, that's your
word.
Say it over and overpredictability, predictability,
predictability that's our wordof the week.
So what does that mean to you?
Mike Zlotnik (42:58):
It's investing in, whatever you do, maybe a
business or real estate oranything that is close to your
heart, where you could getpredictability of outcome.
There are no guarantees, therecan be variants of outcomes, but
achieving predictability is agood goal.
It means stability, it meansalmost.
(43:24):
When I think about investing, Ithink about predictability of
outcome.
That's the best way to thinkabout it.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (43:29):
I love it, I love it, I love it, and you know
that's part of investing.
I mean, if you learn all thetools and follow all the right
people, you can predict that youhave a pretty good chance of a
good outcome.
Mike Zlotnik (43:43):
Yeah, in general, that's the goal.
That's the goal and, as I saidin the past, there's always
possibilities and things can gobetter or worse than you hope
and expect, but the goal shouldbe predictability, and that
implies many other things, butif you keep that goal in mind,
it may help your investmentjourney.
If you're looking for a lot ofexcitement, you can go buy
(44:06):
Magnificent Seven, buy crypto,whatever you feel like you want
to get excitement, but that'sheavily speculation and it's the
opposite of the investing.
Investing is you're trying toreduce the excitement and
increase predictability.
Dwan Bent-Twyford (44:19):
Agreed, agreed.
Okay, I love that.
I love it, everybody.
We love predictability, so Iwant to thank you so much for
sharing your time with me today.
Like I just said to the folks,listening time is really
valuable, so I really appreciateit when anyone takes time out
of their day to spend time withme and everyone dwonderfulcom.
(44:45):
Oh, and listen, make sure yougo to my website and take my
real estate investing quiz I'vegot a brand new quiz up there
and see where you're doing andwhere you stand in the real
estate business.
So take the quiz.
It's super fun and we'll beback next week, same bat time,
same bat channel.
And remember that the truth isin the red letters.
All right, everybody.
Thank you, mike.
Thank you Ciao.
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