March 5, 2026 • 30 mins
The future shape of the Anglican Communion is being debated this week in Abuja, Nigeria.
At the GAFCON conference, more than 400 bishops and global leaders are working through the logic of the proposal that could lead to a new Global Anglican Communion — a fellowship grounded in the authority of Scripture and historic Anglican doctrine.
On Day 2 of the conference, Dominic Steele speaks with key leaders including Vaughan Roberts (Oxford), Julian Dobbs (ACNA), and Richard Condie (Tasmania), along with presenters from Uganda, Brazil and Nigeria.
They discuss:
• The implications of the Church of England’s current trajectory
• The logic behind a reordered global communion
• The mission opportunity for global Anglicans
• What this could mean for churches in the UK, North America and Australia
This episode is part of The Pastor’s Heart special coverage of GAFCON 2026 in Abuja.
Sponsored by Anglican Aid https://anglicanaid.org
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SPEAKER_07 (00:10):
I thank Anglican Aid for the sponsorship that you
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I studied Diploma in theology atBunda Bible College.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
Reverend David is one of 2,000 pastors trained
with support from Anglican Aidin the last five years.
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you'll help resource the world'spoorest diocese to preach Christ
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SPEAKER_05 (00:40):
It is the Pastors Hard and Dominic Steele, and
we're live from Abuja, Nigeria,bringing you all the news from
the big GAFCON conference here.
We're sponsored by Anglican Aid.
Go to Anglicanaid.org.
The center of the conferenceprogram is working through the
logic of the statement that wasissued late last year, which
culminated in the climax ofreally announcing the new global
Anglican communion.
(01:01):
And what's happening today andtomorrow is that each speaker is
presenting an aspect of thatthesis for 20 minutes or so.
They're each expounding a partof the proposal.
So far, we've heard from six ofthe 12 presenters, and there'll
be another six presenterstomorrow.
In our program today on ThePastor's Heart, we're going to
catch up in just a few momentswith three of the presenters
(01:24):
here on day two.
And we will hear the logic ofthe argument that they presented
in this program.
Also, we'll hear from JulianDobbs, the uh uh acting
archbishop of the province ofthe United States of America,
and Richard Condy fromAustralia.
But first, we're going toreflect on developments in the
United Kingdom.
And a couple of hours ago, Icaught up with Vaughan Roberts,
(01:45):
Senior Minister of St.
Ebbs in Oxford, and a leader ofthe Alliance movement, which has
been resisting the push forrevisionism in the Church of
England.
Vaughan, last night, uhlistening to Archbishop uh Henry
Underkarba, do not be yokedtogether with unbelievers, um, I
heard that passage propheticallyapplied in a way with a with a
(02:08):
sharpness that I that I hadn'theard before.
SPEAKER_03 (02:11):
It's very sharp.
Um, but it's the kind of messagethat goes back years because of
the um disasters have beenhappening in the Anglican
Communion.
And that's what happened at thevery first GAFCON.
The very first GAFCON wasdealing with the reality that
what we've got within theAnglican Communion is
essentially two understandingsof scripture, uh, two gospels,
(02:33):
two paths.
And that was already unraveling.
It unraveled in the US, and thatfirst GAFCON in 2008 said, you
know, the authentic Anglican isthe one who holds to authentic
Anglican doctrine.
And that's been played out eversince in different provinces and
across the communion.
So what Archbishop Henry saidlast night just follows in that
(02:54):
trajectory.
SPEAKER_05 (02:55):
Now, let's think about that trajectory and how
those two different paths haveplayed out in the Church of
England.
Um, particularly tell us howyou've reacted to the to well
the the last general synod.
SPEAKER_03 (03:09):
Yes, the last general synod um not much
happened, to be honest, butpreceding the general synod, the
House of Bishops recognized thatthe um the quick path towards
even greater liberalism was apath they couldn't take.
Um just to remind listeners, um,what's happened to the Church of
(03:29):
England, the Church of Englandagreed to uh allow for blessings
of same-sex unions out in thecontext of normal services, but
not a distinct blessing service.
So that in itself is a red line.
But the the the House ofBishops, gloriously, not all of
them, there's there's some whoare very much against this, but
the House of Bishops as a wholesaid they wanted to move towards
(03:50):
same-sex marriage for clergy anduh distinct same-sex blessing
services.
And they were told basically bythe legal advice and the
theological advice, theycouldn't do that in the process
they were pushing forward on.
It was a change of doctrine, andyou can't just push that
through.
So they they held back.
And what happened to GeneralSynod was um a lot of backlash
(04:13):
from the revisionists becausethey wanted to go forward, but
there was a little elementwithin their motion that said,
look, we're we're stopping, butwe're still going forward.
They set up working groupstowards the process that will
lead to what they want to takeplace.
So everyone was unhappy, really.
Liberals that this so-calledliving in love and faith process
(04:34):
has formally kind of stalled,but conservatives were unhappy
because uh the House of Bishopssaid, but we're still moving
towards it.
SPEAKER_05 (04:43):
And there's no sign of repentance from the House of
Bishops.
SPEAKER_03 (04:47):
No, what they held back because of procedural
grounds and legal grounds, andthat it seems clear they're
still determined to moveforward.
There's we're coming to the endof a general synod term.
They're elected for five years,and uh there are new elections
in the autumn, and uh, I thinkall of us recognise that's going
to be hugely important becausewhat's clear is that um the
(05:11):
revisionists know that they canget same-sex marriage if they
push a measure through,so-called, in general synod,
which means over 50% in allthree houses could allow for
same-sex marriage for clergy.
So um we conservatives arecertainly not relaxed at all.
Um, so it's uh it's slowedthings down, but there's been no
(05:33):
repentance, and many determinedto keep pushing forward.
SPEAKER_05 (05:38):
Where does it leave you on do not be yoked with
unbelievers?
Because you've been pushing fora second province.
SPEAKER_03 (05:45):
Yes, um, many of us within the Church of England, in
fact, it's worth remindingpeople that um that that first
motion allowing for blessingsfor same-sex unions um in normal
services, that was only passedby a very, very small
proportion, kind of 52 to 48percent.
(06:07):
Those of us who remain orthodox,many of us are saying this this
is a first-order issue.
Um, because we're talking aboutscripture, we're talking about
sexual morality, the themarriage, this goes right back
to the Garden of Eden.
We can't have fellowship acrossthis divide.
So already there's a breakdownof fellowship.
So sadly, and it's a great painfor me and for many others,
(06:30):
we're no longer in spiritualrelationship with our bishop in
Oxford.
Um, we as St.
Ebbs have have stopped payingmoney into the the central fund.
We're paying no less than weever paid before, but we're
paying it to support Orthodoxministry.
So we are playing that outwithin the overall structure of
the Church of England, we areplaying out distancing.
SPEAKER_05 (06:53):
What do you expect is going to be the reaction?
I mean, it would seem, just fromthe mood around the place, that
this global Anglican communionis going to be formed in the
next 48 hours.
What do you expect the reactionis going to be in the UK as this
kind of trickles down and peoplecome become aware of what's
going on here?
SPEAKER_03 (07:14):
Well, I have to say, very sadly, my first reaction is
most people will hardly notice,and even within the Church of
England will hardly care.
And when what one of thetragedies of the General Synod
debate where we first uh talkedabout LLF and first decided um
by this very narrow majority wewere going to bless same-sex
unions.
Archbishop Sammy from Alexandriawas there as a representative of
(07:38):
the Anglican Communion, and hesaid, Look, this will cause huge
damage globally.
It will be a disaster as far asthe communion is concerned.
And it was as if he'd not spokena word.
It was completely ignored.
So I'm afraid most will notnotice and will not care.
(08:00):
Um, too many in the Church ofEngland are really indifferent
to the communion.
That's a tragedy.
SPEAKER_05 (08:05):
Others will I mean that that's extraordinary,
really.
And um when you talk to theAfricans, I mean, yes, they're
angry about the apostasy, butthey're also angry about a
patronizing colonial attitudethat they feel from the English.
And what you're describingsounds like that again.
SPEAKER_03 (08:24):
Yeah, well, I don't know what's going on in the
heart of people who react likethat, but certainly um the needs
and concerns of communion havenot been addressed in this whole
debate um within the Church ofEngland, tragically.
SPEAKER_05 (08:38):
Vaughan Roberts, thanks very much for talking to
us.
Well, that is Vaughan Roberts,Senior Minister of St.
Ebbs in Oxford.
And uh, we're gonna go acrossthe Atlantic now to Bishop
Julian Dobbs.
He is the Dean of the Provinceof the Anglican Church of North
America, and in that role, he isacting archbishop and primate of
North America.
(09:00):
Well, it's been a busy couple ofdays.
I mean, it's day two of theconference for the delegate
today, but you've been heresince Friday in a whole stack of
meetings, Julian.
SPEAKER_00 (09:10):
Dominicus, good to see you.
Thrilled to be talking with you.
Look, we've been here talkingabout this moment that we are
in, the moment to further theproclamation of the gospel and
the inheritance of faith thatwe've received in the wonderful
Anglican journey we've been onsince the uh time of the
Reformation.
And and uh the primates havebeen gathering with their
(09:31):
advisors to talk about this andto think about moving forward,
what we said when we were inSydney uh last year, and how to
put some teeth into thismovement and to give it some
muscle to move forward.
SPEAKER_05 (09:45):
In the uh address last night from Henry Henry
Undekaba, um he said, uh, justas the Church of Rome has erred,
the Church of England has erred.
SPEAKER_00 (09:54):
Yeah, well, isn't it?
I mean, we just have to look atthe reality of where we are.
We have a gospel once for allentrusted to the saints.
We're not at liberty to gobeyond it, to add to it, to
subtract from it.
It's the gospel that we'vereceived.
And where the church has erred,we need to call out the erring
of the church.
And bishops need to leadfaithfully to ensure that the
(10:18):
gospel continues to beproclaimed.
SPEAKER_05 (10:20):
What will be a success for you as we come out
of this next 48 hours?
SPEAKER_00 (10:26):
A commitment to the inheritance of faith that we've
received.
That's that's success.
That's where we've got to begin.
Secondly, the continuedproclamation of the gospel.
We've got significant parts ofthe world that are unreached
with the gospel.
And the Anglican Church, thisglobal Anglican communion, is
well positioned to be able toproclaim the gospel faithfully
(10:48):
to the nations.
And then some structure as wethink about how we're going to
move this large expression ofChristianity in the world
further forward to reach thoseunreached people groups.
SPEAKER_05 (11:01):
Let's push into some of those structural decisions
because um I've been reflectingthat some of us thought that we
might have got to this point inKigali in 2023, but here we are
two years later, and it lookslike we're going to get there in
the next 48, 56 hours.
But uh it's going to be a moremature expression of a global
(11:21):
Anglican communion than I thinkwould have been formed in Kigali
two years ago.
Can you comment on that?
SPEAKER_00 (11:26):
I think in Kigali we were laying the foundation for
what's been able to bring us tothis very point.
Kigali was significant.
I don't believe we would havebeen here without the global
Anglican meeting in Kigali.
From then, we've put significantprayer and time into this
structure to move it forward.
And so Kigali was, in a sense,the launching pad to bring forth
(11:50):
this global Anglican communion.
Global Anglicans committed tothe gospel, proclaiming faith in
the parameters of the articles,which give us the framework of
our faith to see people come tofaith in Christ and the gospel
being proclaimed.
We've got to remember, Dominic,it's all about that.
It's about Christ and thegospel.
And the structures that we putin place will help us proclaim
(12:14):
him faithfully.
SPEAKER_05 (12:15):
Now, the mood in Kigali was pretty sombre as
people were kind of grapplingwith um well, really the
apostasy of um the Englishleadership.
Uh the mood here now, we've kindof moved past that, dealt with
our grief over that.
And it really does feel likelet's get on with it.
And quite positive.
Is that is that your read too?
SPEAKER_00 (12:35):
Oh, I think the mood here is terribly exciting.
People are looking forward tohow the future has arrived and
how we're going to be part ofit, what we're going to pass on
to the next generation.
And there's a mood of hope thatthat there's hope for global
Anglicans.
And we've got here uhrepresentatives from multiple
(12:55):
nations coming together, over400 people, 400 bishops.
I mean, this is hugelysignificant, and it should be
significant because this isabout Christ.
SPEAKER_05 (13:06):
I was thinking uh last night, I wonder if people
ended up calling this theCouncil of Abuja.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
Well, we certainly are taking counsel, and I think
if you look back to theJerusalem Council, that's our
model.
The apostles, the eldersgathered together to wrestle
with what was happening in thechurch in that moment.
They then shared that with thewider church.
It seemed good to them, anddecisions were made.
So that's our model from thescriptures.
(13:31):
The apostles, the elders comingtogether, the primates, their
advisors, uh the uh regionalsecretaries of GAFCON coming
together, wrestling with theseweighty but significantly
important matters, and thensharing that with the church.
If it seems good to them, we'llmove forward together.
SPEAKER_05 (13:48):
Now, let's turn to domestic issues in the United
States.
It has been a rocky road for youguys the last little while.
SPEAKER_00 (13:54):
Well, look, I think we go we are in a difficult
season in the Anglican Church inNorth America.
Uh, we've got a number of ourbishops uh inhibited uh uh
before the court for the trialof a bishop.
Uh that that actually issomething that we should say
should say that that helps usunderstand our processes are
actually working.
They're working because we'reseeing the opportunity for
(14:15):
people to um express theirconcerns and others to defend
themselves.
So that's the first thing.
But primarily what underscoresthe life of the Anglican Church
in North America is thecommitment that we made in 2009
when we're established to reachNorth America with the
transforming love of Christ.
There are 150 million Americansin North America and Canadians
(14:42):
without Christ.
And the mission of the AnglicanChurch in North America, with
our brothers and sisters inChrist, is to proclaim Christ in
our context.
We're dealing with somesignificant structural
challenges in the ACNA.
Uh we're we're we're we're we'reteenagers now in the ACNA, and
we're wrestling with what itmeans to be an expression, a
(15:04):
wonderful expression of theAnglican Church in our teenage
years.
But I'm very confident becauseof what I know about Christ,
what he's called us to do.
We've got a tremendously stablecollege of bishops.
They all believe in Jesus, theyall believe in the Bible,
they're all committed toproclaiming Christ, and we've
got a significant growing uhgospel ministry across North
(15:29):
America.
So while we're certainly in amoment of tension and struggle,
for which I welcome people'sprayers, I'm very optimistic
because what I know aboutChrist.
SPEAKER_05 (15:39):
That is Julian Dobbs, Dean of the Province of
the Anglican Church of NorthAmerica, and in that role he is
acting archbishop and primate ofNorth America.
We're coming to you live fromAbuja, Nigeria.
It's the Pastor's Heart.
We're brought to you byAnglicanAid, AnglicanAid.org.
Now, the afternoon session onthe first full day of the
conference has just wrapped up,and three of the presenters from
(16:02):
today are with us for this partof the discussion.
Bishop uh Alfred Olva is with usfrom Lango in Uganda.
Bishop Flavio Adair is here fromthe Diocese of Recife, and uh
Bishop David uh Anoha is herefrom the Aweri province in the
Church of Nigeria.
Now, uh Alfred, if we couldstart with you, uh you were one
of the first speakers today, andyou argued that the Bible should
(16:24):
be at the heart of the reorderedcommunion, and I mean by
implication, the Bible isn't atthe heart of the current
communion.
SPEAKER_08 (16:32):
I did argue so because at the moment it is
sidelined, it's more to do withstructures and institutions, but
actually, the Bible is thefoundation of the communion, it
is at the very center, the veryheartbeat of the communion.
Why?
(16:53):
The Bible is the word of Godthat instructs the church on
what it should be and what itshould do, and so the church
cannot sideline the Bible, thenit will lose direction.
SPEAKER_05 (17:06):
Scripture, not instrumental primacy, I think I
heard you say.
SPEAKER_08 (17:11):
Well, one scripture because scripture has all it
takes to bring fellowship, ithas all it takes to bring us
together and to instruct us onwhat we have to do about the
Christian faith.
Whereas institutional structuresdo not do that, but it is
(17:31):
scriptures which has the wordover this institution, not the
other way around, theinstitutions over the word.
SPEAKER_05 (17:41):
Flavio, you challenge the term instruments
of communion.
You uh rejected them, youquestioned the term, and you
showed their historicalinability.
SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
Communion is not made and managed by instructors,
it's a biblical sense,communion, the real and biblical
communion comes from not just byfellowship, but a unity and
faith, and guard the same faith.
It's about long time theinstrument, promise uh to make
this work to continue guardingthe Anglican communion, but they
(18:15):
fail.
We shared historical momentsabout it.
SPEAKER_05 (18:18):
I thought it was an important line from
post-colonial mediation toconfessional recognition.
What did you mean by that?
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
Yeah, because we are uh we're we are talking to to
Chef River One that those waywas not the good way to maintain
and continue the uh 20thcentury, 21st century uh
Anglican communion, because thecommunions in reality is
(18:47):
communion in faith, indoctrinal,and the same discipline, not by
geographical or uh way ofthinking.
SPEAKER_05 (18:56):
And the church doesn't exist to preserve
structures, the structuresshould promote faith, and when
the structures don't promotefaith, change the structures.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (19:07):
When the structure cease to promote communion and
faith, we need to uh reorderthat.
It's about we are talking.
We need to reorder, to to changethe way, to uh guard the faith
and uh guard the Anglicancommunion, really.
SPEAKER_05 (19:24):
Let's uh let's come to you, David, and um uh you
were arguing it's a settled factthat uh geography does not
define Anglicanism.
SPEAKER_06 (19:35):
Oh, sure.
Geography does not defineAnglicanism, um it is uh a
global body.
As I argued there, it is not uhan African communion, it is not
an Asian communion, it is not anAmerican communion, but a global
(19:55):
communion, because the mandateof uh the Great Commission is to
go and make disciples of allnations, and that is where the
Anglican Church stands.
SPEAKER_05 (20:07):
Yeah, now um uh you talked about um uh this
reordering is a restoration ofthe communion to its original
structure.
SPEAKER_06 (20:18):
Oh, sure, clearly the original structure of the
Anglican Church was built one onthe Bible, the word of God, on
our formularies, on uh the bookof common prayer, thirty-nine
articles of religion, which theCanterbury Communion, as it
(20:41):
were, has judges.
So the global communion, globalAnglican Communion has recovered
and restored all this, and thatis why we are rejoicing here
that the Anglican church isquite confusing.
SPEAKER_05 (21:01):
Now, there was a big applause right at the end for a
lovely line that you gave theconference.
Why don't you repeat that forus?
SPEAKER_06 (21:09):
Oh one of the things for which we rejoice about the
global Anglican communion isthat it has now given us the
freedom to worship God as Hedeserves and not as men desire.
SPEAKER_05 (21:28):
Let's just ask each of you briefly what have you
really appreciated about theconference so far?
Let's start with you, Alfred.
SPEAKER_08 (21:35):
The conference is really about the authority of
scripture, the fellowship in uhrooted in the scripture, and
people are really obeying theword.
There is nothing there likepeople are being arrogant, or
(21:55):
people are being bossy, butpeople are listening to the
spirit.
With obedience.
It's all focused on scripture.
Every small group, and even inthe plenary.
I really appreciate thisstanding on the word.
SPEAKER_05 (22:10):
What have you appreciated, Flavia?
SPEAKER_01 (22:12):
Yeah, um, I appreciate when uh during the
lunch, I look around for themany people and I have met first
time long time when we start totalk about the Gafkan movement,
and I can realize how manydifferent histories, how God is
having been doing and work withus, in us, and through us.
(22:35):
So it is for me, it's a sign ofthe Holy Spirit touching the
church and saying, go ahead anddo that that Jesus said to you
to do.
What have you appreciated,David?
SPEAKER_06 (22:47):
Oh, yeah.
Um the joy of this is all is yousee the love and the desire
people express to see that theAnglican church remains aflute
in its true sense.
And that is why people have comefrom all over the world.
(23:09):
Americans are here, Englishpeople are here, Australians are
here, Africans are here, Asiansare here.
I mean, we all are united in thelove and desire to have the
Anglican Communion restored.
SPEAKER_05 (23:27):
Thank you very much for talking to us.
That's uh Bishop uh David Anohafrom the Aweri Province in the
Church of Nigeria, uh, BishopFlavio uh Adair, and uh Flavio's
here from the Diocese of Recife,and Bishop Alfred Olwa from
Lango in Uganda.
My name is Dominic Steele.
You're watching us on thePastor's Heart uh coverage
brought to you by Anglican Aid.
Go to AnglicanAid.org.
(23:49):
Now, next we're going to go justto hear from Richard Condy.
And uh, Richard Condy is fromTasmania uh in Australia, and he
is also uh a member of theGAFCON Australia Board, and he's
speaking to us about uh, well,particularly how the uh
conference and the implicationsof the statement when it's
released will have implicationsfor the Australian church.
(24:11):
We're on day two of the bigconference.
Uh, what's your read of thepulse so far, Richard?
SPEAKER_04 (24:17):
Well, look, uh Dominic, I I think there's a
mood for change.
You don't call the conferenceand 350 bishops from around the
world come together unless theyreally want to see something
happen.
And so I think there's a a moodthat the existing structures,
the existing way we've operatedas a communion is no longer
working.
I mean, we we see that uheverywhere, and I think people
(24:41):
think this is a moment that wemight be able to do something uh
that will address that and seethe change that we need to
happen.
The sense is that some veryserious statements are going to
come out in a new direction set.
Yes, I think that's right.
One of the things I've lovedabout the GAFCON movement has
been its collaborative approach.
And uh the Martyrs Day statementcame uh to us from a small
(25:03):
group, but this is the momentfor collaboration.
I remember back to 2008,everybody had an opportunity to
contribute to the JerusalemDeclaration.
Uh, there was a mood that thiswas ours, and I'm hoping that
these uh days will mean thatwhatever we come up with in that
serious statement will be ours,and uh we'll own it and say that
(25:25):
this is the thing that we reallywant to see happen.
SPEAKER_05 (25:27):
I think there's a real chance of that because of
the way the voting system isgonna work.
That each paragraph that'ssuggested, you can say yes, you
can say no, you can say yes withthese changes.
SPEAKER_04 (25:37):
Not unless all my uh Michael, who's chairing the uh
the statement committee, justshowed me a little of how that's
going to work, and I think it'sI've got lots of good of good
hope uh that uh that that beable to capture the mood.
SPEAKER_05 (25:49):
What are some of the concerns that you have in terms
of how this might apply in theAustralian context?
Yes, thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (25:55):
Look, I think it's very uh there is a mood for
change, all right?
And uh we're we're we'rethinking about what the shape of
the communion might be.
But Australian Anglicans areconnected constitutionally to
the Church of England, and thereare many other Anglicans around
the world who are working inplaces where that is true.
SPEAKER_05 (26:13):
And for the Australian Anglicans to change
on that, it's such a high bar,it's basically impossible to it
it is impossible to do.
SPEAKER_04 (26:21):
So, what like what what does it mean then to
participate in theconstitutional structures which
I have pledged before the Lordto uphold uh as my in my role as
a bishop?
Uh, what does it mean also to bepart of the reordering, the
restructuring, the thereimagining of how we relate to
each other?
Because uh when when the Biblespeaks about koinonia, about
(26:45):
fellowship, about communion witheach other, it's talking about a
deep spiritual connection, not astructural uh contract.
Uh, and so I think we need towork out how that how that uh
real partnership starts to work.
Okay, you asked the question,what's the answer?
Well, uh, well, I I I think itis about defining uh communion
(27:09):
or fellowship.
Uh, I hear the word aroundpartnership uh as uh as a as a
partnership about uh conviction,a partnership in common
understanding.
Um we we long ago said Anglicansare not people who are part of a
(27:29):
particular structure andinstitution, but people who
believe certain things.
And I think our uh ourfellowship needs to be around
those things.
That's how the New Testamenttalks about Koinonia, that's how
it talks about uh the faiththat's once delivered to the
saints, and and we share ourfellowship around that that
faith.
SPEAKER_05 (27:48):
Just thinking aloud, the diocese of Sydney has been
in impaired communion withCanterbury for a long time.
What are the other dioceses thatare in impaired communion with
Canterbury?
Because it perhaps uh I mean itmay be that they've already
taken that step, or your diocesehasn't taken that step.
SPEAKER_04 (28:05):
Well, my my diocese has uh declared that it's in
impaired communion with uh withCanterbury, but with uh other
dioceses around the world whodon't uphold uh and in Australia
who don't uphold the doctrine.
Uh we've we have made publicstatements about what we think
about uh the Wangarata uhdecision of the Appellate
Tribunal.
Uh we have declared ourselves uhto be in fellowship, not in
(28:29):
communion, we can't do that, butin the structural sense, but in
fellowship with uh Anglicans inuh the Anglican Church of North
America and the Church ofConfessing Anglicans in New
Zealand.
Our synod has taken those uhthose decisions.
Now, I don't know what the stateof all the diocese in Australia
are, but I know a number havedone that as well, to say
actually uh fellowship, gospelfellowship is the important
(28:50):
thing here, and um structuresshould support fellowship, not
the other way around.
SPEAKER_05 (28:57):
Now, you're giving the main Bible talk on the final
day of the conference.
What are you going to be sayingfrom what part of the
scriptures?
SPEAKER_04 (29:03):
Well, I'm going to be uh preaching from uh 1 Peter
chapter 2, uh, which is asection where John is warning uh
the early church in Asia Minorthat antichrists will come, that
those who are opposed to Christor impersonating Christ come and
they are trying to draw peopleaway.
(29:24):
And uh and he says they havewalked away from us.
Uh they they used to be part ofus, but they walked away from
us.
But his antidote to that is toremain in Jesus, to to remember
what you have heard from thevery beginning and uh and stick
to that and remain in Jesus.
The word remain uh is uh is beenis is used six times in five
(29:48):
verses.
Uh remain in Jesus, remain inhim, remain.
Uh, and and that's what I thinkwe need to call each other to do
right across the communion.
I don't I don't care who youare, if you're an Anglican, you
need to remain in Jesus.
That's the the important thing,isn't it?
And uh and stick to that.
SPEAKER_05 (30:07):
That is Richard Condy, and he is the Bishop of
Tasmania and also a member ofthe GAFCON Australia Board.
That wraps up our coverage fromday two of the big GAFCON
conference here in Abuja,Nigeria.
Uh, my name's Dominic Steele.
You've been you've been watchingand listening to the Pastor's
Heart.
And uh, we're brought to youthis week by Anglican Aid.
Go to anglicanade.org for allthe details of the great work
(30:30):
that they're doing there.
I thank Anglican Aid for the sponsorship that you
gave me.
I studied Diploma in theology atBunda Bible College.
Thank you so much.
SPEAKER_02 (00:20):
Reverend David is one of 2,000 pastors trained
with support from Anglican Aidin the last five years.
When you give to Anglican Aid'sGlobal Anglican Communion Fund,
you'll help resource the world'spoorest diocese to preach Christ
faithfully and care for peoplein need.
Visit Anglicanaid.org.
SPEAKER_05 (00:40):
It is the Pastors Hard and Dominic Steele, and
we're live from Abuja, Nigeria,bringing you all the news from
the big GAFCON conference here.
We're sponsored by Anglican Aid.
Go to Anglicanaid.org.
The center of the conferenceprogram is working through the
logic of the statement that wasissued late last year, which
culminated in the climax ofreally announcing the new global
Anglican communion.
(01:01):
And what's happening today andtomorrow is that each speaker is
presenting an aspect of thatthesis for 20 minutes or so.
They're each expounding a partof the proposal.
So far, we've heard from six ofthe 12 presenters, and there'll
be another six presenterstomorrow.
In our program today on ThePastor's Heart, we're going to
catch up in just a few momentswith three of the presenters
(01:24):
here on day two.
And we will hear the logic ofthe argument that they presented
in this program.
Also, we'll hear from JulianDobbs, the uh uh acting
archbishop of the province ofthe United States of America,
and Richard Condy fromAustralia.
But first, we're going toreflect on developments in the
United Kingdom.
And a couple of hours ago, Icaught up with Vaughan Roberts,
(01:45):
Senior Minister of St.
Ebbs in Oxford, and a leader ofthe Alliance movement, which has
been resisting the push forrevisionism in the Church of
England.
Vaughan, last night, uhlistening to Archbishop uh Henry
Underkarba, do not be yokedtogether with unbelievers, um, I
heard that passage propheticallyapplied in a way with a with a
(02:08):
sharpness that I that I hadn'theard before.
SPEAKER_03 (02:11):
It's very sharp.
Um, but it's the kind of messagethat goes back years because of
the um disasters have beenhappening in the Anglican
Communion.
And that's what happened at thevery first GAFCON.
The very first GAFCON wasdealing with the reality that
what we've got within theAnglican Communion is
essentially two understandingsof scripture, uh, two gospels,
(02:33):
two paths.
And that was already unraveling.
It unraveled in the US, and thatfirst GAFCON in 2008 said, you
know, the authentic Anglican isthe one who holds to authentic
Anglican doctrine.
And that's been played out eversince in different provinces and
across the communion.
So what Archbishop Henry saidlast night just follows in that
(02:54):
trajectory.
SPEAKER_05 (02:55):
Now, let's think about that trajectory and how
those two different paths haveplayed out in the Church of
England.
Um, particularly tell us howyou've reacted to the to well
the the last general synod.
SPEAKER_03 (03:09):
Yes, the last general synod um not much
happened, to be honest, butpreceding the general synod, the
House of Bishops recognized thatthe um the quick path towards
even greater liberalism was apath they couldn't take.
Um just to remind listeners, um,what's happened to the Church of
(03:29):
England, the Church of Englandagreed to uh allow for blessings
of same-sex unions out in thecontext of normal services, but
not a distinct blessing service.
So that in itself is a red line.
But the the the House ofBishops, gloriously, not all of
them, there's there's some whoare very much against this, but
the House of Bishops as a wholesaid they wanted to move towards
(03:50):
same-sex marriage for clergy anduh distinct same-sex blessing
services.
And they were told basically bythe legal advice and the
theological advice, theycouldn't do that in the process
they were pushing forward on.
It was a change of doctrine, andyou can't just push that
through.
So they they held back.
And what happened to GeneralSynod was um a lot of backlash
(04:13):
from the revisionists becausethey wanted to go forward, but
there was a little elementwithin their motion that said,
look, we're we're stopping, butwe're still going forward.
They set up working groupstowards the process that will
lead to what they want to takeplace.
So everyone was unhappy, really.
Liberals that this so-calledliving in love and faith process
(04:34):
has formally kind of stalled,but conservatives were unhappy
because uh the House of Bishopssaid, but we're still moving
towards it.
SPEAKER_05 (04:43):
And there's no sign of repentance from the House of
Bishops.
SPEAKER_03 (04:47):
No, what they held back because of procedural
grounds and legal grounds, andthat it seems clear they're
still determined to moveforward.
There's we're coming to the endof a general synod term.
They're elected for five years,and uh there are new elections
in the autumn, and uh, I thinkall of us recognise that's going
to be hugely important becausewhat's clear is that um the
(05:11):
revisionists know that they canget same-sex marriage if they
push a measure through,so-called, in general synod,
which means over 50% in allthree houses could allow for
same-sex marriage for clergy.
So um we conservatives arecertainly not relaxed at all.
Um, so it's uh it's slowedthings down, but there's been no
(05:33):
repentance, and many determinedto keep pushing forward.
SPEAKER_05 (05:38):
Where does it leave you on do not be yoked with
unbelievers?
Because you've been pushing fora second province.
SPEAKER_03 (05:45):
Yes, um, many of us within the Church of England, in
fact, it's worth remindingpeople that um that that first
motion allowing for blessingsfor same-sex unions um in normal
services, that was only passedby a very, very small
proportion, kind of 52 to 48percent.
(06:07):
Those of us who remain orthodox,many of us are saying this this
is a first-order issue.
Um, because we're talking aboutscripture, we're talking about
sexual morality, the themarriage, this goes right back
to the Garden of Eden.
We can't have fellowship acrossthis divide.
So already there's a breakdownof fellowship.
So sadly, and it's a great painfor me and for many others,
(06:30):
we're no longer in spiritualrelationship with our bishop in
Oxford.
Um, we as St.
Ebbs have have stopped payingmoney into the the central fund.
We're paying no less than weever paid before, but we're
paying it to support Orthodoxministry.
So we are playing that outwithin the overall structure of
the Church of England, we areplaying out distancing.
SPEAKER_05 (06:53):
What do you expect is going to be the reaction?
I mean, it would seem, just fromthe mood around the place, that
this global Anglican communionis going to be formed in the
next 48 hours.
What do you expect the reactionis going to be in the UK as this
kind of trickles down and peoplecome become aware of what's
going on here?
SPEAKER_03 (07:14):
Well, I have to say, very sadly, my first reaction is
most people will hardly notice,and even within the Church of
England will hardly care.
And when what one of thetragedies of the General Synod
debate where we first uh talkedabout LLF and first decided um
by this very narrow majority wewere going to bless same-sex
unions.
Archbishop Sammy from Alexandriawas there as a representative of
(07:38):
the Anglican Communion, and hesaid, Look, this will cause huge
damage globally.
It will be a disaster as far asthe communion is concerned.
And it was as if he'd not spokena word.
It was completely ignored.
So I'm afraid most will notnotice and will not care.
(08:00):
Um, too many in the Church ofEngland are really indifferent
to the communion.
That's a tragedy.
SPEAKER_05 (08:05):
Others will I mean that that's extraordinary,
really.
And um when you talk to theAfricans, I mean, yes, they're
angry about the apostasy, butthey're also angry about a
patronizing colonial attitudethat they feel from the English.
And what you're describingsounds like that again.
SPEAKER_03 (08:24):
Yeah, well, I don't know what's going on in the
heart of people who react likethat, but certainly um the needs
and concerns of communion havenot been addressed in this whole
debate um within the Church ofEngland, tragically.
SPEAKER_05 (08:38):
Vaughan Roberts, thanks very much for talking to
us.
Well, that is Vaughan Roberts,Senior Minister of St.
Ebbs in Oxford.
And uh, we're gonna go acrossthe Atlantic now to Bishop
Julian Dobbs.
He is the Dean of the Provinceof the Anglican Church of North
America, and in that role, he isacting archbishop and primate of
North America.
(09:00):
Well, it's been a busy couple ofdays.
I mean, it's day two of theconference for the delegate
today, but you've been heresince Friday in a whole stack of
meetings, Julian.
SPEAKER_00 (09:10):
Dominicus, good to see you.
Thrilled to be talking with you.
Look, we've been here talkingabout this moment that we are
in, the moment to further theproclamation of the gospel and
the inheritance of faith thatwe've received in the wonderful
Anglican journey we've been onsince the uh time of the
Reformation.
And and uh the primates havebeen gathering with their
(09:31):
advisors to talk about this andto think about moving forward,
what we said when we were inSydney uh last year, and how to
put some teeth into thismovement and to give it some
muscle to move forward.
SPEAKER_05 (09:45):
In the uh address last night from Henry Henry
Undekaba, um he said, uh, justas the Church of Rome has erred,
the Church of England has erred.
SPEAKER_00 (09:54):
Yeah, well, isn't it?
I mean, we just have to look atthe reality of where we are.
We have a gospel once for allentrusted to the saints.
We're not at liberty to gobeyond it, to add to it, to
subtract from it.
It's the gospel that we'vereceived.
And where the church has erred,we need to call out the erring
of the church.
And bishops need to leadfaithfully to ensure that the
(10:18):
gospel continues to beproclaimed.
SPEAKER_05 (10:20):
What will be a success for you as we come out
of this next 48 hours?
SPEAKER_00 (10:26):
A commitment to the inheritance of faith that we've
received.
That's that's success.
That's where we've got to begin.
Secondly, the continuedproclamation of the gospel.
We've got significant parts ofthe world that are unreached
with the gospel.
And the Anglican Church, thisglobal Anglican communion, is
well positioned to be able toproclaim the gospel faithfully
(10:48):
to the nations.
And then some structure as wethink about how we're going to
move this large expression ofChristianity in the world
further forward to reach thoseunreached people groups.
SPEAKER_05 (11:01):
Let's push into some of those structural decisions
because um I've been reflectingthat some of us thought that we
might have got to this point inKigali in 2023, but here we are
two years later, and it lookslike we're going to get there in
the next 48, 56 hours.
But uh it's going to be a moremature expression of a global
(11:21):
Anglican communion than I thinkwould have been formed in Kigali
two years ago.
Can you comment on that?
SPEAKER_00 (11:26):
I think in Kigali we were laying the foundation for
what's been able to bring us tothis very point.
Kigali was significant.
I don't believe we would havebeen here without the global
Anglican meeting in Kigali.
From then, we've put significantprayer and time into this
structure to move it forward.
And so Kigali was, in a sense,the launching pad to bring forth
(11:50):
this global Anglican communion.
Global Anglicans committed tothe gospel, proclaiming faith in
the parameters of the articles,which give us the framework of
our faith to see people come tofaith in Christ and the gospel
being proclaimed.
We've got to remember, Dominic,it's all about that.
It's about Christ and thegospel.
And the structures that we putin place will help us proclaim
(12:14):
him faithfully.
SPEAKER_05 (12:15):
Now, the mood in Kigali was pretty sombre as
people were kind of grapplingwith um well, really the
apostasy of um the Englishleadership.
Uh the mood here now, we've kindof moved past that, dealt with
our grief over that.
And it really does feel likelet's get on with it.
And quite positive.
Is that is that your read too?
SPEAKER_00 (12:35):
Oh, I think the mood here is terribly exciting.
People are looking forward tohow the future has arrived and
how we're going to be part ofit, what we're going to pass on
to the next generation.
And there's a mood of hope thatthat there's hope for global
Anglicans.
And we've got here uhrepresentatives from multiple
(12:55):
nations coming together, over400 people, 400 bishops.
I mean, this is hugelysignificant, and it should be
significant because this isabout Christ.
SPEAKER_05 (13:06):
I was thinking uh last night, I wonder if people
ended up calling this theCouncil of Abuja.
SPEAKER_00 (13:11):
Well, we certainly are taking counsel, and I think
if you look back to theJerusalem Council, that's our
model.
The apostles, the eldersgathered together to wrestle
with what was happening in thechurch in that moment.
They then shared that with thewider church.
It seemed good to them, anddecisions were made.
So that's our model from thescriptures.
(13:31):
The apostles, the elders comingtogether, the primates, their
advisors, uh the uh regionalsecretaries of GAFCON coming
together, wrestling with theseweighty but significantly
important matters, and thensharing that with the church.
If it seems good to them, we'llmove forward together.
SPEAKER_05 (13:48):
Now, let's turn to domestic issues in the United
States.
It has been a rocky road for youguys the last little while.
SPEAKER_00 (13:54):
Well, look, I think we go we are in a difficult
season in the Anglican Church inNorth America.
Uh, we've got a number of ourbishops uh inhibited uh uh
before the court for the trialof a bishop.
Uh that that actually issomething that we should say
should say that that helps usunderstand our processes are
actually working.
They're working because we'reseeing the opportunity for
(14:15):
people to um express theirconcerns and others to defend
themselves.
So that's the first thing.
But primarily what underscoresthe life of the Anglican Church
in North America is thecommitment that we made in 2009
when we're established to reachNorth America with the
transforming love of Christ.
There are 150 million Americansin North America and Canadians
(14:42):
without Christ.
And the mission of the AnglicanChurch in North America, with
our brothers and sisters inChrist, is to proclaim Christ in
our context.
We're dealing with somesignificant structural
challenges in the ACNA.
Uh we're we're we're we're we'reteenagers now in the ACNA, and
we're wrestling with what itmeans to be an expression, a
(15:04):
wonderful expression of theAnglican Church in our teenage
years.
But I'm very confident becauseof what I know about Christ,
what he's called us to do.
We've got a tremendously stablecollege of bishops.
They all believe in Jesus, theyall believe in the Bible,
they're all committed toproclaiming Christ, and we've
got a significant growing uhgospel ministry across North
(15:29):
America.
So while we're certainly in amoment of tension and struggle,
for which I welcome people'sprayers, I'm very optimistic
because what I know aboutChrist.
SPEAKER_05 (15:39):
That is Julian Dobbs, Dean of the Province of
the Anglican Church of NorthAmerica, and in that role he is
acting archbishop and primate ofNorth America.
We're coming to you live fromAbuja, Nigeria.
It's the Pastor's Heart.
We're brought to you byAnglicanAid, AnglicanAid.org.
Now, the afternoon session onthe first full day of the
conference has just wrapped up,and three of the presenters from
(16:02):
today are with us for this partof the discussion.
Bishop uh Alfred Olva is with usfrom Lango in Uganda.
Bishop Flavio Adair is here fromthe Diocese of Recife, and uh
Bishop David uh Anoha is herefrom the Aweri province in the
Church of Nigeria.
Now, uh Alfred, if we couldstart with you, uh you were one
of the first speakers today, andyou argued that the Bible should
(16:24):
be at the heart of the reorderedcommunion, and I mean by
implication, the Bible isn't atthe heart of the current
communion.
SPEAKER_08 (16:32):
I did argue so because at the moment it is
sidelined, it's more to do withstructures and institutions, but
actually, the Bible is thefoundation of the communion, it
is at the very center, the veryheartbeat of the communion.
Why?
(16:53):
The Bible is the word of Godthat instructs the church on
what it should be and what itshould do, and so the church
cannot sideline the Bible, thenit will lose direction.
SPEAKER_05 (17:06):
Scripture, not instrumental primacy, I think I
heard you say.
SPEAKER_08 (17:11):
Well, one scripture because scripture has all it
takes to bring fellowship, ithas all it takes to bring us
together and to instruct us onwhat we have to do about the
Christian faith.
Whereas institutional structuresdo not do that, but it is
(17:31):
scriptures which has the wordover this institution, not the
other way around, theinstitutions over the word.
SPEAKER_05 (17:41):
Flavio, you challenge the term instruments
of communion.
You uh rejected them, youquestioned the term, and you
showed their historicalinability.
SPEAKER_01 (17:51):
Communion is not made and managed by instructors,
it's a biblical sense,communion, the real and biblical
communion comes from not just byfellowship, but a unity and
faith, and guard the same faith.
It's about long time theinstrument, promise uh to make
this work to continue guardingthe Anglican communion, but they
(18:15):
fail.
We shared historical momentsabout it.
SPEAKER_05 (18:18):
I thought it was an important line from
post-colonial mediation toconfessional recognition.
What did you mean by that?
SPEAKER_01 (18:25):
Yeah, because we are uh we're we are talking to to
Chef River One that those waywas not the good way to maintain
and continue the uh 20thcentury, 21st century uh
Anglican communion, because thecommunions in reality is
(18:47):
communion in faith, indoctrinal,and the same discipline, not by
geographical or uh way ofthinking.
SPEAKER_05 (18:56):
And the church doesn't exist to preserve
structures, the structuresshould promote faith, and when
the structures don't promotefaith, change the structures.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (19:07):
When the structure cease to promote communion and
faith, we need to uh reorderthat.
It's about we are talking.
We need to reorder, to to changethe way, to uh guard the faith
and uh guard the Anglicancommunion, really.
SPEAKER_05 (19:24):
Let's uh let's come to you, David, and um uh you
were arguing it's a settled factthat uh geography does not
define Anglicanism.
SPEAKER_06 (19:35):
Oh, sure.
Geography does not defineAnglicanism, um it is uh a
global body.
As I argued there, it is not uhan African communion, it is not
an Asian communion, it is not anAmerican communion, but a global
(19:55):
communion, because the mandateof uh the Great Commission is to
go and make disciples of allnations, and that is where the
Anglican Church stands.
SPEAKER_05 (20:07):
Yeah, now um uh you talked about um uh this
reordering is a restoration ofthe communion to its original
structure.
SPEAKER_06 (20:18):
Oh, sure, clearly the original structure of the
Anglican Church was built one onthe Bible, the word of God, on
our formularies, on uh the bookof common prayer, thirty-nine
articles of religion, which theCanterbury Communion, as it
(20:41):
were, has judges.
So the global communion, globalAnglican Communion has recovered
and restored all this, and thatis why we are rejoicing here
that the Anglican church isquite confusing.
SPEAKER_05 (21:01):
Now, there was a big applause right at the end for a
lovely line that you gave theconference.
Why don't you repeat that forus?
SPEAKER_06 (21:09):
Oh one of the things for which we rejoice about the
global Anglican communion isthat it has now given us the
freedom to worship God as Hedeserves and not as men desire.
SPEAKER_05 (21:28):
Let's just ask each of you briefly what have you
really appreciated about theconference so far?
Let's start with you, Alfred.
SPEAKER_08 (21:35):
The conference is really about the authority of
scripture, the fellowship in uhrooted in the scripture, and
people are really obeying theword.
There is nothing there likepeople are being arrogant, or
(21:55):
people are being bossy, butpeople are listening to the
spirit.
With obedience.
It's all focused on scripture.
Every small group, and even inthe plenary.
I really appreciate thisstanding on the word.
SPEAKER_05 (22:10):
What have you appreciated, Flavia?
SPEAKER_01 (22:12):
Yeah, um, I appreciate when uh during the
lunch, I look around for themany people and I have met first
time long time when we start totalk about the Gafkan movement,
and I can realize how manydifferent histories, how God is
having been doing and work withus, in us, and through us.
(22:35):
So it is for me, it's a sign ofthe Holy Spirit touching the
church and saying, go ahead anddo that that Jesus said to you
to do.
What have you appreciated,David?
SPEAKER_06 (22:47):
Oh, yeah.
Um the joy of this is all is yousee the love and the desire
people express to see that theAnglican church remains aflute
in its true sense.
And that is why people have comefrom all over the world.
(23:09):
Americans are here, Englishpeople are here, Australians are
here, Africans are here, Asiansare here.
I mean, we all are united in thelove and desire to have the
Anglican Communion restored.
SPEAKER_05 (23:27):
Thank you very much for talking to us.
That's uh Bishop uh David Anohafrom the Aweri Province in the
Church of Nigeria, uh, BishopFlavio uh Adair, and uh Flavio's
here from the Diocese of Recife,and Bishop Alfred Olwa from
Lango in Uganda.
My name is Dominic Steele.
You're watching us on thePastor's Heart uh coverage
brought to you by Anglican Aid.
Go to AnglicanAid.org.
(23:49):
Now, next we're going to go justto hear from Richard Condy.
And uh, Richard Condy is fromTasmania uh in Australia, and he
is also uh a member of theGAFCON Australia Board, and he's
speaking to us about uh, well,particularly how the uh
conference and the implicationsof the statement when it's
released will have implicationsfor the Australian church.
(24:11):
We're on day two of the bigconference.
Uh, what's your read of thepulse so far, Richard?
SPEAKER_04 (24:17):
Well, look, uh Dominic, I I think there's a
mood for change.
You don't call the conferenceand 350 bishops from around the
world come together unless theyreally want to see something
happen.
And so I think there's a a moodthat the existing structures,
the existing way we've operatedas a communion is no longer
working.
I mean, we we see that uheverywhere, and I think people
(24:41):
think this is a moment that wemight be able to do something uh
that will address that and seethe change that we need to
happen.
The sense is that some veryserious statements are going to
come out in a new direction set.
Yes, I think that's right.
One of the things I've lovedabout the GAFCON movement has
been its collaborative approach.
And uh the Martyrs Day statementcame uh to us from a small
(25:03):
group, but this is the momentfor collaboration.
I remember back to 2008,everybody had an opportunity to
contribute to the JerusalemDeclaration.
Uh, there was a mood that thiswas ours, and I'm hoping that
these uh days will mean thatwhatever we come up with in that
serious statement will be ours,and uh we'll own it and say that
(25:25):
this is the thing that we reallywant to see happen.
SPEAKER_05 (25:27):
I think there's a real chance of that because of
the way the voting system isgonna work.
That each paragraph that'ssuggested, you can say yes, you
can say no, you can say yes withthese changes.
SPEAKER_04 (25:37):
Not unless all my uh Michael, who's chairing the uh
the statement committee, justshowed me a little of how that's
going to work, and I think it'sI've got lots of good of good
hope uh that uh that that beable to capture the mood.
SPEAKER_05 (25:49):
What are some of the concerns that you have in terms
of how this might apply in theAustralian context?
Yes, thank you.
SPEAKER_04 (25:55):
Look, I think it's very uh there is a mood for
change, all right?
And uh we're we're we'rethinking about what the shape of
the communion might be.
But Australian Anglicans areconnected constitutionally to
the Church of England, and thereare many other Anglicans around
the world who are working inplaces where that is true.
SPEAKER_05 (26:13):
And for the Australian Anglicans to change
on that, it's such a high bar,it's basically impossible to it
it is impossible to do.
SPEAKER_04 (26:21):
So, what like what what does it mean then to
participate in theconstitutional structures which
I have pledged before the Lordto uphold uh as my in my role as
a bishop?
Uh, what does it mean also to bepart of the reordering, the
restructuring, the thereimagining of how we relate to
each other?
Because uh when when the Biblespeaks about koinonia, about
(26:45):
fellowship, about communion witheach other, it's talking about a
deep spiritual connection, not astructural uh contract.
Uh, and so I think we need towork out how that how that uh
real partnership starts to work.
Okay, you asked the question,what's the answer?
Well, uh, well, I I I think itis about defining uh communion
(27:09):
or fellowship.
Uh, I hear the word aroundpartnership uh as uh as a as a
partnership about uh conviction,a partnership in common
understanding.
Um we we long ago said Anglicansare not people who are part of a
(27:29):
particular structure andinstitution, but people who
believe certain things.
And I think our uh ourfellowship needs to be around
those things.
That's how the New Testamenttalks about Koinonia, that's how
it talks about uh the faiththat's once delivered to the
saints, and and we share ourfellowship around that that
faith.
SPEAKER_05 (27:48):
Just thinking aloud, the diocese of Sydney has been
in impaired communion withCanterbury for a long time.
What are the other dioceses thatare in impaired communion with
Canterbury?
Because it perhaps uh I mean itmay be that they've already
taken that step, or your diocesehasn't taken that step.
SPEAKER_04 (28:05):
Well, my my diocese has uh declared that it's in
impaired communion with uh withCanterbury, but with uh other
dioceses around the world whodon't uphold uh and in Australia
who don't uphold the doctrine.
Uh we've we have made publicstatements about what we think
about uh the Wangarata uhdecision of the Appellate
Tribunal.
Uh we have declared ourselves uhto be in fellowship, not in
(28:29):
communion, we can't do that, butin the structural sense, but in
fellowship with uh Anglicans inuh the Anglican Church of North
America and the Church ofConfessing Anglicans in New
Zealand.
Our synod has taken those uhthose decisions.
Now, I don't know what the stateof all the diocese in Australia
are, but I know a number havedone that as well, to say
actually uh fellowship, gospelfellowship is the important
(28:50):
thing here, and um structuresshould support fellowship, not
the other way around.
SPEAKER_05 (28:57):
Now, you're giving the main Bible talk on the final
day of the conference.
What are you going to be sayingfrom what part of the
scriptures?
SPEAKER_04 (29:03):
Well, I'm going to be uh preaching from uh 1 Peter
chapter 2, uh, which is asection where John is warning uh
the early church in Asia Minorthat antichrists will come, that
those who are opposed to Christor impersonating Christ come and
they are trying to draw peopleaway.
(29:24):
And uh and he says they havewalked away from us.
Uh they they used to be part ofus, but they walked away from
us.
But his antidote to that is toremain in Jesus, to to remember
what you have heard from thevery beginning and uh and stick
to that and remain in Jesus.
The word remain uh is uh is beenis is used six times in five
(29:48):
verses.
Uh remain in Jesus, remain inhim, remain.
Uh, and and that's what I thinkwe need to call each other to do
right across the communion.
I don't I don't care who youare, if you're an Anglican, you
need to remain in Jesus.
That's the the important thing,isn't it?
And uh and stick to that.
SPEAKER_05 (30:07):
That is Richard Condy, and he is the Bishop of
Tasmania and also a member ofthe GAFCON Australia Board.
That wraps up our coverage fromday two of the big GAFCON
conference here in Abuja,Nigeria.
Uh, my name's Dominic Steele.
You've been you've been watchingand listening to the Pastor's
Heart.
And uh, we're brought to youthis week by Anglican Aid.
Go to anglicanade.org for allthe details of the great work
(30:30):
that they're doing there.
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