February 3, 2026 • 41 mins
For many pastors, the AGM is something to be survived — not led.
A governance headache. A compliance exercise.
And for some, the meeting where old tensions resurface and trust quietly erodes.
But what if we’ve misunderstood the AGM?
What if, instead of just doing compliance, we aimed to build confidence?
What if the AGM could be a leadership moment — one that strengthens, not damages, your church?
Jo Gibbs (Reach Australia) and Dave Moore (Hunter Bible Church) on how to plan and lead an excellent church AGM.
- Why good AGM preparation is actually pastoral care
- How to move from enduring the AGM to envisioning it
- Why “no surprises” is kindness, not bureaucracy
- What faithful impact and financial reporting really look like
- And what a genuinely Jesus-honouring AGM would feel like
Further reading: https://reachaustralia.com.au/its-agm-time-again/
http://www.thepastorsheart.net/podcast/rethinking-the-annual-general-meeting
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SPEAKER_02 (00:38):
The most dangerous meeting in your church.
We're rethinking the annualgeneral meeting.
It is the pastor's heart.
It's Dominic Steele, Joe Gibbs,and Dave Moore are our guests.
Why do church annual generalmeetings go wrong?
And how do you run one thatbuilds trust?
For many pastors, the annualgeneral meeting is something to
be survived, not led.
(00:58):
For some, it's a meeting whereold tensions resurface and where
trust quietly erodes.
But we don't just want to docompliance.
We want to build confidence.
How do you lead an AGM thatstrengthens, not damages, your
church?
And how can you turn an annualgeneral meeting from being a
(01:19):
governance headache to being aleadership moment?
Today on The Pastor's Heart,we're talking about how to plan
and run an excellent church AGMlegally, pastorally, and with
gospel clarity.
Dave Moore from Hunter BibleChurch and Joe Gibbs from Reach
Australia who are with us.
Well, Dave, let's start with thePastor's Heart and uh what
(01:39):
should be our heart posture assenior leaders as we run up to
the AGM?
SPEAKER_01 (01:46):
Yeah.
I think a lot of time we canfeel like it is a threat, and
it's almost like a shareholdersmeeting that we get that sense
of, oh, I've got to proveeverything.
This is their moment where theycan tell me I'm doing it wrong.
But the reality is, just becauseit's not a Sunday event, just
because it's not church, wedon't take our pastor's hat off.
(02:07):
We're still the shepherd of thesheep.
And so this is a shepherdingmoment, and we look out, these
are not shareholders, these areour flock that we want to love
and care.
And so that's probably one ofthe big differences to a
shareholders' meeting.
A shareholders' meeting, they'rethey're coming to make sure that
you, the CEO, are you doing theright thing.
But at a church AGM, this isit's it's about what they are
(02:28):
doing.
It's not about what you'redoing, it's about what they, the
church.
They are the church.
We we I suppose you.
Yeah, we we with them, we aregoing, this is what we are gonna
do.
And so it's uh so the heart thatwe want to cultivate is one
where we look out and seebrothers and sisters who we want
to lead and love really well andcall them to this great work
(02:48):
that Jesus is doing in ourchurch in the world.
Heart posture, Joe.
SPEAKER_00 (02:54):
Yeah, I've been in Titus for my daily Bible
reading, and uh Paul writesabout avoiding division and
quarrels and controversy, andthat's been a lot of my
experience across a number ofyears at different AGMs, but to
stress the things of the gospel.
And so I think that's reallyimportant, uh, not for the
(03:14):
senior pastor, but for thecongregation members coming
along.
Uh, not to be focused ondivision, but actually thinking
how we're united in the gospel,what are the important things of
the gospel that we need to talkabout at the church AGM?
SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
Let's talk division for a moment.
I mean, we look over at GoodShip Hunter Bible Church and it
all looks like it's going well.
But um you had some pretty messyones early on.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Yeah, I I think so.
One of the things that's worthrecognizing is uh if you're the
senior leader of a church, whenyou arrive, whatever members,
church members have been therebefore you, they kind of see it
as their church and you've comein to their church.
But anyone who arrives at yourchurch after you've arrived,
they see it as your church andthey're joining your church.
(03:59):
And so that's part of the thingthat can be happening at an AGM
is kind of the old the old hats,the people who've been there for
a while, they can uh they canget a bit defensive or unsure
about feeling like you're takingover what they're doing.
And so there's a real culturalthing there that you want to
love them and and and speak intothat.
(04:21):
But yeah, over the years there'sbeen some hard moments,
particularly if as church grows,what your AGM looks like
changes.
So when you've got a church of50, 60, your AGM looks very
different to when you've got achurch of 500, 600, 1000.
And so for people who've beenthere for a long time and
they've got an idea of what thisis what we always do in our
AGMs, when you try to change itto do what's more suitable, they
(04:45):
can find that hard.
So that's some of the issueswe've had over the years.
You've been through a few messyAGMs, Joe.
SPEAKER_00 (04:52):
Uh yeah, I've been involved in a range of church
denominations and parachurchorganizations.
So I've seen some good ones andnot so good ones, which was why
I wrote an article on it.
Um, I think I agree with Dave.
I think also when you get peoplewhere there's something that
they just haven't resolved withthe senior pastor, this they can
feel that this is their momentto kind of bring it out
(05:13):
publicly.
Um, but I think also people whoare involved in organizations
elsewhere who feel who've got abit of um experience in
governance, uh, this is theirmoment to kind of use their
authority sometimes.
So there can be a whole bunch ofidentity things happening for
people as well.
But also I just think that lackof clarity.
When we're not clear, when wedon't communicate clearly what
(05:35):
the purpose of the AGM is, thenpeople can kind of bundle in
whatever their expectation is.
Um, and sometimes I just seepeople bringing stuff that I
think this could have beensolved in an email.
So why is it happening herereally publicly?
Um, so yeah, there's a wholebunch of messy things that can
happen.
SPEAKER_02 (05:53):
Uh I'm imagining we've got quite a few people um
engaging with us now who are newin that leadership role.
And I think, and and actually,confession, um I've been leading
uh this church here for 24years.
So I mean, at one level, I'vehad 24 AGMs, I'm not new, but
(06:15):
I've just taken overresponsibility for another
church 20 minutes west of hereat Concord, and I'll be leading
their first AGM for me in amonth's time.
So, what's your advice for me asa new person in that situation?
Uh let's start with you, Joe.
SPEAKER_00 (06:34):
Oh, yeah, that because that's tricky.
Like it's very new.
You haven't had a chance to forthem to get to know you.
SPEAKER_02 (06:41):
Not much.
I mean, I mean, we've had oneweek together so far, um, last
Sunday, and then I think the AGMwill happen in six, seven weeks'
time.
SPEAKER_00 (06:51):
Yeah.
Um, no chance to have quickwins, like there's no chance to
really to build trust with you.
And I'm guessing um the churchmight have uh joined yours
because it's been struggling insome way, and so there may be
issues in that.
Um, for me, I would be reallygoing relationally, chatting to
as many people as possiblebefore the AGM, chatting about
(07:13):
what it's what's involved, butreally building relationships
before you get in the room.
And I think also like thebeginning of the AGM really sets
the tone.
You get to set the tone and thepurpose of that.
And so doing that well, but in awarm and an honest and uh naming
the things that might be there,that would they would be my
thoughts just because peoplemight be just feeling anxious
(07:37):
about who you are.
Can they trust you?
Are there things that you can doto build a bit of trust and
relationship beforehand?
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
Yeah, so along with all that, because I think that
relational uh beforehand isgood.
Say the the second mostdangerous meeting is the meeting
before the meeting.
It's the it's the one you havewith other people beforehand,
going, hey, what are we gonnatalk about here?
I think the other thing to do atthe AGM, so one of the
principles we've tried toimplement is uh question time
ends when there's no morequestions.
(08:05):
So that we want we want tocreate a thing, a sense, uh
trust that you can ask questionsuntil the room is finished with
questions, so that the the vibeat the end is there are no more
questions.
Everyone's got all theirquestions out, and so the way
you answer questions becomes soimportant.
And that this is probably thetrickiest thing about using
(08:27):
AGMs, not using AGMs, makingsure AGMs build trust.
Because the way you respond inthose moments, they can be some
of the hardest moments torespond with godliness and
calmness, and so that's that'swhere in those moments when the
hard question comes up, whenwe've had we've had questions,
(08:47):
people have stood up with tearsin their eyes.
Why has this happened?
And in that moment, you want tobe their pastor, you want to
love them and not be defensive.
You want to understand, andsometimes you say, Look, I'd
love to chat to you about thatsome more.
Can we grab a grab a coffeeafter after this?
Let's that is you want to modelbeing a pastor in that moment
(09:08):
rather than the CEO saying,Well, that's not what happened.
SPEAKER_03 (09:12):
This is the other thing.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
You want to that will build more trust.
The way people see how yourespond to those questions is
what builds the trust long term.
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
And recognizing the emotion, the impact on them,
like that pastoral approachbefore you're giving the
technical answer.
That's right.
It's interesting.
I was talking to a pastor thisweek, and he was talking about
the one-another commands inscripture, and he said there's
no command to trust one another,and that trust is earned in the
family of God, and that's partof their team kind of ethos.
SPEAKER_02 (09:41):
It takes a long time.
SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
It does.
SPEAKER_01 (09:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
But you're really, you're really building trust
with very little to work with inthis situation.
SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
And sometimes the questions come without the
emotion, but you don't find outuntil after you answer it.
Actually, there was a lot ofemotion behind that.
They just did a really good jobof hiding.
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:59):
Um, one of my friends said preparing well for
an AGM is pastoral care.
Um, in that he said you wantadvanced circulation of
documents, no surprises on thenight, people arriving already
informed.
And that's um not bureaucracy,but kindness and trust building
discuss.
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
Yeah, I agree.
I think often the AGM has a bigworkload and it kind of sneaks
up on the senior pastor.
Um, and so it just often feels alittle bit um disorganized.
Uh, reports are not necessarilysent out early.
Um, and yeah, so it can justhave that edge of um, oh, we're
(10:42):
giving you this information, butit's last minute.
So sending things out early,really important.
Uh, sending out reports that areactually focused on uh the
biblical focus of disciplemaking, so that that sets the
tone already.
Not necessarily a report thatlists every single ministry in
the church, uh, which just talksabout activity and busyness, but
(11:05):
not actually what we are allunited in the gospel focusing
on, um, that can also beunhelpful and unpastoral to
people.
So I think a lot of that interms of report preparation is
really important.
SPEAKER_02 (11:18):
Let's talk then about that communication and
that reporting and if you likestrategic priorities and goal
setting and that kind of thing.
How much do you put in of that?
SPEAKER_01 (11:31):
So I think as we as we pull together our AGMs, there
are the things we have to do, wehave got to give a financial
report.
But really, the big theme ofthem is how we have seen God at
work in our church and whatwe're hoping, hoping God will do
in the future.
And so that's whether you callthat strategic or not, uh, in
(11:52):
some sense it is, but it's aboutwhich wanted we're wanting to
help our church understand thatwhat we're doing in the Bible
each week actually has uh it'spart of an ongoing plan that
we're pulling together under Godwith their help to say this is
what we're hoping God will do.
And so uh I want that to bereally gospel driven.
(12:15):
I want uh so we open the Bibleand the the picture we're
painting is not about church,this thing of we want to be keep
looking at the fields, not thebarns.
We don't want to look at howmany, how much don't want to
just see how much church hasgrown.
We want to see that in light ofthe hundreds of thousands of
people who are lost in our localarea so that our church is grown
(12:36):
by hundred, hundred people orten people.
There's thousands that wehaven't reached, so we want to
see everything in context tothat.
Uh and so I want people to atthe end of the AGM go, oh, that
was really good to know wherechurch is at.
But gee, there's lots to prayfor.
Gee, there's so much more thatwouldn't God wouldn't you do
(12:57):
great things here?
We want people to be passionate,excited about what would be
there, and then it's working outwhat's the best way to
communicate that, what's thebest way to help people grasp
that?
And so there's going to be somepeople in the room who they're
gonna love the strategic plan.
There's gonna be other people inthe room where you tell them the
story of what has happened andhow you want it to repeat it.
Yeah.
So you're working out how tocommunicate that well.
(13:18):
One of the ways we do that onour team is we get uh we get
Greg to kind of um Greg's yoursenior pastor.
Greg's our senior pastor, and sohe will uh kind of run through
this with our with the boardfirst and say this is what we're
kind of thinking.
And so he kind of tries it outand then he'll go through with
the staff.
And again, who gets anotherchance to try it out?
SPEAKER_02 (13:39):
How do I attend to the workshopping his report?
SPEAKER_01 (13:41):
Yeah, yeah.
So that when we get to the AGM,this is something he's thought
about, we've worked out whatworks, what what resonates well.
SPEAKER_02 (13:47):
Well, here's a question at your annual general
meeting, what percentage of thechurch attend?
Oh, a very small percentage ofthe church.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (13:55):
The keen beans.
SPEAKER_02 (13:57):
Yeah.
Whereas probably it's the casethat I'm just thinking about the
smaller church where um thechurch of 50 or something where
the AGM happens after the Sundaymeeting, actually, that might be
most people attend.
Yeah.
If it's at a quite a differentdynamic there, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:14):
Yeah, if if if it's at a time when people can easily
get there.
Can I go back to your commentabout it's not necessarily
strategic?
Because the word strategicsounds high-level, it does,
complicated, intense.
SPEAKER_01 (14:25):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
But it's really just having plans and priorities as a
church, things you're going tofocus in on amongst ever all the
possibilities and be attemptingto move somewhere to lead people
in the gospel towards maturityor to becoming disciples.
And so, really, it's being clearon those things and then saying,
what what impact, what progresshave we seen on that over the
(14:49):
last 12 months?
I think that's what it means tobe strategic.
I like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, and I think so, then it'sreally important not just to be
(15:26):
reporting on activity, but whathas the impact been?
So it might be through stories,it might be a church survey that
you've done where you've seenwhere people have grown in their
uh Christ-likeness or theirmaturity.
Um, but you'd also want to bereporting on meaningful data,
uh, not measuring everything,but the really key things that
(15:47):
are around making and maturingdisciples in a way that people
can see how that the data'smeaningful, not just a number.
SPEAKER_02 (15:54):
So that's interesting.
I've heard you say beforestories are for the
congregation, stats are forstaff.
But are you arguing againstyourself here?
SPEAKER_00 (16:05):
Ah well, I think the whole spread of stats I wouldn't
give to the congregation, buthow many people became
Christians this year?
That's something we've all beenpraying for.
That's something we have allbeen like we've been inviting
friends, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02 (16:20):
So you do want some of those key stats there.
SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
Yeah, you wouldn't want to bamboozle people, um,
but it's really that what arethe what are the key high-level
things that we've been prayingfor as a church since the last
AGM?
SPEAKER_02 (16:32):
What percentage congregation change since the
year before?
What are the what are the reallyhigh-level stats you want us to
include?
SPEAKER_00 (16:37):
Yeah, so turn in terms of making disciples, I
would say number of people whobecome a Christian, uh, number
of people who've attended yourconversion, like your
evangelistic course, to hearabout that.
And I think also the percentageof newcomers at your church, and
not just a number.
So saying 47 people turned upthis year, if you're a church of
50 people, that's healthy.
(16:58):
If you're a church of 800people, that is not healthy at
all.
So it needs to be a benchmarkcompared to average Sunday
attendance, something like that.
SPEAKER_02 (17:06):
If our diocese has the goal, I mean, just as a
Sydney diocese person, if ourdiocese has set the goal of we
want to grow by 5% throughconversion growth every year,
every year for the next fiveyears, then actually to be
talking about that number at theannual general meeting would be
a really healthy thing for toactually say we are serious
(17:29):
about this and we're and we'renaming it at the annual general
meeting.
SPEAKER_00 (17:32):
Yeah.
And it provides an opportunitythis year to have an honest look
and say, where are we up to?
We did not get there.
And what needs to change interms of our prayerfulness, in
terms of what we're doing as achurch with the limited
resources we've got, how are wegoing to change that decision?
SPEAKER_02 (17:46):
So I mean, taking leadership in this church at
Concord, there's 40 peoplethere, and we've got to have a
target of two.
Yeah.
Great.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:55):
Yeah.
I think even in this, I I evenwant to say there's some of that
I want to see more AGM things inour normal Sundays, and more of
our Sundays in our AGMs.
That is, I I I think it'd begreat on our for not every
Sunday, don't hear me say that,but to in our normal sermons, we
are saying, hey, just lettingyou know guys, we if we're
(18:17):
hoping, we're praying as achurch to see five percent of
people converted this year intoour church.
That that doesn't need to waitfor the AGM.
That's an all of church thing.
Yeah.
And so the AGM can be a pointwhere you collect a whole bunch
of those things that you'retalking about as a church
altogether.
SPEAKER_02 (18:34):
Now, what briefing do you give your staff before
the AGM about how they are toparticipate or not participate
in the discussion, Dave?
SPEAKER_01 (18:42):
We say to our staff, here's all the inf all all of
the information.
Uh, we're giving you loads oftime to ask your questions
before the AGM.
In the staff meeting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Because because so much of it isaround trust, it does it.
There's nothing wrong with staffasking asking questions in the
AGM, but it does it does suggestsomething's not right here.
(19:03):
Why don't they know about this?
And so uh, but we do say, hey,if there's a way, if there's a
point where you can explainstuff, so quite often as so as
we do question time in a in ourAGM, it's often Greg and I out
the front, depending on what isthe question more about big
vision and strategy, or thequestion more about the details,
we will often throw to uh otherpeople.
(19:25):
Staff who knows more about atopic.
Yeah, that's right.
Because we want to show thatit's not just us, it's actually
everyone.
In fact, not even just staff.
We'll throw to other members ofthe church.
So I can tell you.
SPEAKER_02 (19:33):
So one of the lines I give them is you have much
more opportunity to weigh in onthe strategy decisions of the
church in the staff meetingsthan the membership have.
This is their moment to weighin, you know, you get the moment
in the staff meeting.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:49):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:49):
Joe?
unknown (19:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:51):
Um, well, I was going to move us on to a
different area, which is likewe've talked a lot about
strategic priorities, but uh theoften overlooked area of
financial reporting, like theboring, complicated stuff.
Yeah, just just thinking aboutthat.
Um, I think it's oftenbamboozling for people.
It's an opportunity for thepeople with the accounting
degree to really shine, buteveryone else to feel really
(20:12):
lost.
Um, but I but I think with that,like really just preparing well,
plain English stuff, but alsomaking uh sure that everything
points to disciple making.
Like the reason we have abuilding is not because we want
a building, it's so that peoplecan come and hear the gospel, so
people can grow, like so thatwe've got places to run.
Kids ministry so people can hearthe gospel.
(20:34):
Uh, the reason we've gotfinances is not just to keep our
staff going and everyone happy,but it's it's really about
disciple making.
So just just to be able to makethat connection so it's not just
this weird kind of thing thathappens that people switch off.
SPEAKER_02 (20:48):
Yeah.
One of the frustrating things Ithink I find about our
denomination is that um we startspending the budget on the first
of January.
SPEAKER_03 (20:56):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:56):
And then we approve the budget in the middle of
March.
And I just think that's mad.
Um what do you guys do in theother denomination?
Do you have sensible systems?
SPEAKER_01 (21:09):
Apparently it comes down to what your constitution
says.
And so we worked out ourconstitution doesn't require the
a our uh general meeting AGM toapprove the budget.
And so we had been doing itbecause we looked at the Sydney
Anglicans and went, oh, that'swhat they do at their AGM, we
should do that, until we got tothe point and looked at it and
went, Oh, we we actually don'thave to.
The the board approves the thebudget, and so we report on it,
(21:30):
we say this is the this is thebudget that the board's
approved, uh, and we explain it.
So so much of what you weresaying, Joe, is um wanting to
make sure that this is not justcontinuing on.
Every cent here has this heartbehind it to see people grow.
And so that's the that's theimportant thing.
But no, we don't need to we'vewe've reduced the number of
(21:51):
things we vote on to being verysmall, and we still have someone
who I think has voted, he's gothis name in every AGM for the
last 20 years.
Right.
And but the the opportunities tovote is getting smaller and
smaller.
SPEAKER_02 (22:04):
What do you think, Joe, about that that I mean part
of the way we've addressed it isby having a vision campaign in
term four.
SPEAKER_03 (22:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:12):
And by having a vision campaign, we set out what
we're trying to do and we'resaying, and that's gonna cost us
this much.
And so then people will put inpledge forms and we'll either
have enough money or not.
But there's a transparencymoment in October, November, and
so when we actually vote on itin March, everyone knows it's
just formally approving whatreally was tacitly approved in
(22:33):
October, November.
But I just think how does itwork in another situation where
really you have started spendingthe money in January and they're
only given a voice in March?
SPEAKER_00 (22:48):
Yeah, I agree with you.
Like our we actually run to adifferent calendar rhythm that
really makes sense to have yourpledging towards the end of the
year.
I mean, that's also the timewhen you recruit.
Incruitting people forpositions.
Like there's a whole rhythm tothe church calendar that makes
sense.
So really, uh, in my view, theAGM, if it's happening in March,
(23:10):
is really a touch point aboutthat, about this is where we're
going, but also a look acrossthe whole year.
Whereas often in the third orfourth quarter, it's a looking
ahead, planning the budget.
So this is uh an accountabilitywhere we've come from, uh, how
we're going on that, as well asa looking forward.
So I think the the normal rhythmthat you've got makes more
sense.
Same for yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:31):
Yeah, we've we've actually started to push it out
to do a five-year plan.
Go, this is what the budget'sgoing to look like over the next
five years.
Obviously, as as you get furtheron, the less certain we can be,
but at least giving people thatimage of how things will go.
SPEAKER_02 (23:46):
What about things to be read rather than
presentations to be heard?
Yeah.
That um some documents need tobe tabled to satisfy governance,
to preserve institutionalmemory, but shouldn't dominate
the meeting.
Whereas spoken content actuallyit's of a different nature.
SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:05):
Talk to us about that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:06):
Yeah, the reports beforehand should be much more
detailed.
That's why you need them sentout beforehand so people can
really read them, absorb them,think through them, think
through questions that they'vegot.
But at the meeting, there shouldbe uh a statement of an
assumption that they're taken asread.
And so it's really a high level.
Uh, this is this is what how weas God's people under God have
(24:29):
gone over the last 12 months inthese strategic areas around
disciple making.
It shouldn't be the deep dive,it shouldn't be the detail, and
it should be that focus onreally on impact.
Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:41):
What about how does the chair, the senior leader,
set the tone for the meeting?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:46):
Yeah, well, I think uh, well, I mean, there's stuff
that needs to be done at thebeginning, which is, you know,
quorum and electic a minutesecretary, that shouldn't be the
main game.
That shouldn't be theintroduction.
It shouldn't start with a wholebunch of governance kind of
details.
Um, I think it's a realleadership moment of saying this
is this is the purpose of ourchurch, and this is the purpose
(25:09):
of our AGM underneath thatbigger purpose.
So that's why we are together.
Uh, this is our biblical visionas a church, this is uh what God
has tasked us with as a wholecongregation over the last 12
months, and so this is whatwe're talking about.
So it's it's really thathigh-level setting purpose, so
sets the tone for ourconversations.
You might even talk about um howwe're to love each other, uh
(25:32):
what our conversations will belike during that time, why we're
asking questions.
And I think there's anassumption that people know what
the AGM is, so it can even be uhkind of just an education moment
for people of uh, you know,whatever they've brought,
actually, actually, this iswhat's happening here, and this
is why we're having it.
SPEAKER_02 (25:51):
How can you be an active spiritual leader rather
than a neutral MC?
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
The uh because we want to see this as a growth
opportunity for people, this iswhere I think opening the Bible
and showing how everything isattached to what God is doing in
his world.
So yeah, this is where I uhhaving that sense that we are
wanting to bring people on ajourney, not just get through
(26:20):
the meeting.
SPEAKER_03 (26:21):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (26:21):
Uh so I think so just even going back to your you
to your question before abouthow do you launch well, part of
this is think about what happensbefore the meeting.
So the food spread you have outbeforehand, make this enjoyable,
make this fun.
SPEAKER_02 (26:36):
So the the way the way you bring people, I mean, we
do a pot luck dinner, then theLord's Supper.
Oh, great, then the annualgeneral meeting.
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
Yeah, what what do you do?
Yeah, so we've done bacon andeggs, uh brunch beforehand, uh
or yeah, we'll sting.
SPEAKER_02 (26:55):
So you're doing it Sunday lunchtime, yeah.
So we felt like that left outour evening church.
So we've gone for a week nightso that the evening church does
not feel left out.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:08):
What do you I mean, speak about food and then we'll
come back to time and say butthe vibe you bring, so even when
we do have to do the okay, we'vegot to do the minutes and stuff,
making that fun.
This is hey, we're gettingtogether, we've got to do these
things, but let's have some funwhile we do it.
And so, you know, this is anopportunity to get your name in
(27:29):
the minutes for next year.
Uh, you notice notice who in theminutes we got the name in last
year, let's not get them do it,like just enjoying it.
This is it is when a when youhave a family, even as as
families, when we do familymeetings together, it's not all
humdrum and dry.
This is people we love oneanother.
And so if that's what we wantpeople to do, then we want to
(27:50):
lead in that as well.
Joe?
SPEAKER_00 (27:53):
I think you can think about um the way you set
it up.
So it doesn't have to be likerows of chairs, it can be
tables.
We've done tables before, yeah.
Yeah, you can encourage peopleto sit on tables with people
they don't know because if oftenthere's rare opportunities for
the whole church to gettogether.
So people are seeing people theyhaven't seen for months,
catching up, talking, like so itcan be a great kind of uh within
(28:16):
the church moment and food onthe tables, like it's just has a
nice vibe, maybe some musicbeforehand.
Like it doesn't have to feel dryand anxiety driven, and yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:27):
And when you see people at at uh tables, that
means after a report, you cansay, Oh, look, wasn't that
exciting?
Why don't you pray at yourtables right now?
Give thanks to God for what'sthere and pray about what's
coming up.
Yeah, and people get togetherand they that is it's very hard
for people to be grumpy aboutthings when they're going to
their Heavenly Father asking forhelp.
It's it it's lovely.
SPEAKER_02 (28:46):
I really like that.
I mean, sorry, I like praying attables, but I also like music at
dinner.
SPEAKER_03 (28:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:52):
While I've gone for the Lord's Supper is I look for
those moments where we as achurch family can have a meal
together and then look for thosemoments where we can do the
Lord's Supper in the context ofthe meal.
So it's not just a ceremonialmeal in a Sunday situation, it's
a meal in a real meal.
Yeah.
(29:13):
I love it doing the Lord'sSupper on Sunday lunch on the
weekend away and um and on theannual general meeting potluck
dinner, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (29:23):
Yeah.
And I think it's also lovelydoing the Lord's Supper.
It it reminds people that you'retheir pastor before you're a CEO
or uh, you know, a manager orall those sorts of things.
So I I think it sets a reallynice time.
SPEAKER_02 (29:34):
So talk to me about elections because uh we think
differently about I mean, on theone hand, as a staff team, we're
all about thinking, will we askthis person to be area lead
here, will we ask this person,and we've got to make sure we
don't ask this person to do thisbecause they're um already
serving too much here.
And and yet you get to anelection and it's actually not
our responsibility to or is itour what do you do?
SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
Uh we yeah, we don't have any elections at our AGMs.
What's easy?
Yeah, what do you guys like?
What do you guys have to do?
SPEAKER_02 (30:09):
There is a sense that they are the shareholders
and they do have a moment toactually vote.
And and somebody has to beresponsible.
I mean, I always say to people,I'm not responsible for the
money.
If the money's a mess, youelected dud people, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (30:28):
So but I think you're right, Dominic.
I think um we pay attention.
Term three, usually in the year,we're like, okay, who in this
ministry is going to keep?
We're thinking about recruitmentgenerally across all of our
leaders.
Um, but we don't tend to thinkabout office holders for church.
And then all of a sudden you getto this AGM in March, and it can
(30:48):
feel like it's this last minutescramble and sometimes a feeling
of, well, just to get anyone,we're really lucky.
Rather than actually thinking,uh, you know, chatting to
people, how are you feelingabout that for next year?
Are you planning to stand again?
Um, and looking for people whohave a real heart for the lost
and are growing as a disciplethemselves.
(31:09):
So thinking about theircharacter and convictions,
definitely helpful to havecompetencies.
SPEAKER_02 (31:14):
I mean, so I walked into our cafe on um on uh Sunday
night a couple of weeks ago, andthere was a a young lady there,
and I was just talking to her.
I worked out she worked attreasury, and I thought, Ooh, we
should get you to come on tochurch council because um this
would be great governanceexperience learning for you, and
(31:35):
you could be a future treasurerof our church, do you know?
SPEAKER_00 (31:39):
Yes, and you want to be thinking about that, yeah,
but also the long-term, youknow, and thinking ahead for
three years' time.
Thinking ahead for three years'time, and also is this someone
who is really growing as adisciple of Jesus?
Are they concerned about thosedisciple making purposes,
priorities for our church?
Because you really for theseroles, you really need that
(31:59):
happening.
SPEAKER_02 (32:00):
If I just come back to when I just said a minute
ago, I'm not responsible.
I mean, I do take it that I amresponsible for everything, do
you know?
But there is a demarcation inthe Anglican system where the um
where the the members vote forthe wardens who are responsible
for treasure and money and umand the minister is responsible
for overall vision and Bible andspiritual matters.
(32:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
Um I think this is where when you're recruiting
those people on, helping themsee that this is such a way to
use your gifts for the kingdom.
This is this is not, oh, wereally need this whole field.
It's that I think God has giftedyou in these particular ways.
Would you consider doing thisfor as many terms as you can?
You probably have a limit on anumber of terms.
No, it's none.
(32:42):
Yeah.
I'd I'd be I'd be encouragingpeople to would you do this as a
way of growing the kingdom, ofserving the the people around
you for as long as you can?
Because as people do it year in,year out, they get better at it.
And so it's such a it's sodisheartening when someone's
been doing something for awhile, and it's so what takes
(33:02):
them an hour, if you give it tosomeone else, it's gonna take 10
hours for them to do, and you'reback to square one again.
And so longevity in these roles,there are risks, but it's so
helpful as well.
And so it's managing those andencouraging people to see it for
what it is, and in our in ourdenomination, actually, the
roles of nominator, the peoplewho pick the successor of the
(33:25):
senior minister, and making surethose people are th
theologically um going to make agood decision.
SPEAKER_02 (33:34):
Yeah, I mean, so important every year for 24
years, I've I've had to make wwork hard to make sure sense, I
mean, really good,gospel-hearted people.
There was one year where I gotit wrong, and I thought, oh
dear, I can't resign this year.
You can't resign this year.
SPEAKER_00 (33:51):
But also keeping those qualifications for those
roles on your website so peoplecan look it up at any time.
It's not this, oh, I think Iwant to do that, but it might be
like 20 hours a week, like anindicate, like we do with all
our other roles, you know, asense of how much time it'll
take, what sorts of peopleyou're looking for, what will
like what's involved in therole.
We we don't tend to do that.
(34:12):
We just assume people know whatthe roles will be and then hope
that they'll stand.
SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
What about disagreements?
And I mean, talk to me about amotion of no confidence or a
motion from the floor saying wewant to go in this direction,
not the direction.
What do you think about how?
I mean, they're the things welike in bed terrorise.
SPEAKER_00 (34:34):
No sleep beforehand.
unknown (34:36):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
It hasn't happened to me.
It hasn't happened for a I can'toh we've had something like that
in the past.
Uh I there's a recognition.
So one of the things we do onour board, our elders' board, is
we do most of our decisionsthrough just simply through
consensus.
The problem with doing that iswe get out of the habit of
(34:59):
having to vote.
And so every so often we go,okay, we're gonna do a vote to
go through the motion of this isnormal, normalizing that we're
not all going to agree, andthat's okay.
And this is one of the thingsthat when you have AGMs that go
on for a while, that everyoneagrees, um, then if someone
doesn't, then that can seemawful.
(35:21):
When actually it's okay ifpeople don't necessarily agree,
but we haven't normalized that.
I'm not sure how you would bedoing that well, but if you get
the sense that this is going tobe a tricky thing, I think
that's what I'd be wanting to dois normalize and say, look, one
of the lovely things aboutchurch is we don't all have to
agree.
And AGMs give us an opportunityfor certain decisions where we
(35:42):
get to make them like this.
And and when we can look acrossthe table and say, Oh, yeah, you
voted for that, and I didn't,and that's okay, we're still
brothers and sisters.
I'd want to be really pushingdown that end so that the
fallout of the disagreement,that's the issue that that that
Christians have disagreement isnot an issue.
That's normal.
(36:03):
The fallout from disagreement,that's a Christian issue.
That that shouldn't happen.
There should be friends loveeach other, brothers and sisters
in Christ.
That and so if something's gonnahappen that means you can't be
doing that, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (36:17):
I that's the much larger issue rather than it's
interesting to hear you saythat.
I mean, you're in an independentchurch context.
In the Anglican denominationalcontext that I'm in, I think,
well, I go to the synod andwe're really clear that there
are debates, disagreements, andvotes, or I go to the standing
committee and there are debates,disagreements, and votes, and
(36:38):
we're used to actuallydisagreeing with people that we
like and and then not being, ifyou like, um uh relational
damage um from the we've had adispar different disagreement
about which way we should go,and we I lost the vote, you
know.
Um we're not at all used to itin the congregational context.
SPEAKER_00 (37:02):
Yeah.
And Patrick Lentoni, you talkabout the difference between
healthy conflict where you wantissues brought up and you can
debate them for the good of thegospel to actually have the best
way forward and personalconflict.
And so you don't want thathappening.
Titus similarly, Paul says, warna divisive person once, warn
them twice, and then havenothing to do with them.
(37:23):
So there's that longer-termdiscipleship work of is this
happening in your congregationwith this person long term?
Have you been addressing that?
Like there are yeah, longer-termthings.
SPEAKER_02 (37:33):
Now, I'm just thinking follow-up from the
annual general meeting, becauseas you said, there's only a
small percentage there, but wecan we could actually use some
of the reporting from the annualgeneral meeting to keep pushing
in those discipleship goals,Joe.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:49):
Uh some of the reporting, so sending out the
minutes, what are you thinking?
SPEAKER_02 (37:53):
I'm even I'm just playing with this idea.
Yeah, okay.
And it's it's thinking about umthis discussion that's prompted
me to think about it.
But at one level, it's not evenminutes, it's really uh sending
out the key facts that werepresented, you know.
If I put it in the minutes,they're not going to read it.
Whereas if I if I actually workout We actually wanted to
(38:15):
communicate to our people thesethings at the AGM for the growth
of our church.
Yeah.
Well, let's work out how to rollthat information out.
Not just who was elected andthat kind of thing.
But how do we how do we anyway?
That's a new thought for me.
Uh it's not something I've donein the past, but as I've thought
about best practice AGM for thisdiscussion, I thought we could
(38:37):
get better in that area.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:38):
I mean, you want your AGM report to be engaging,
and lots of churches are doingthat now with photos and
stories.
Like it's something that youwant to be giving out beyond the
AGM.
So thinking about that so it'snot some A4 boring font, like
really making it a great,colourful thing to give out.
Really, really important.
You can give that out um at yourbelong courses as people join
(39:01):
you.
Um, but I wonder if you'rethinking about reporting that
could happen on a Sunday, likesomething that touches on, I
mean, you'd want to be thinkingabout your key strategic
priorities, but they're reallydiscipleship priorities, and
that would be happeningpost-AGM, but also during the
life of the church anyway.
I guess I've got a question ofif you do too much of it, would
it stop people coming to theAGM?
(39:22):
Like if they can get it on aSunday anyway.
Is there a point?
SPEAKER_02 (39:25):
And if I was to just argue against myself for a
minute, um, I have found thatthat vision moment, particularly
for us, has happened in thatOctober-November vision casting
season.
Yeah.
And so we've not done, I mean,when you just talked about the
the great glossy brochure, yeah.
For us, it's been actually thebrochure that we make in October
and November.
Yeah, and then we haven't put asmuch effort into the March
(39:47):
brochure.
And um, but I could see that ifyou weren't doing as much in the
October, November, you ought tobe doing more in the March.
Yeah.
What do you do, Dave?
SPEAKER_01 (39:54):
Yeah, so we probably do more similar to what you're
talking about.
That that uh we want we keeptalking about the vision and the
prayer of Hunter Bowl Churchjust bleeds out in everything we
do.
So it's not just the preaching,it's the hosts at the front.
Uh the other day, one of oursong leaders, in between songs,
talked about how we'd love tosee one in ten people saved in
(40:15):
Newcastle and Lake Mac.
And I don't think someone toldhim to do that.
He just worked out, oh, this iswhat we do out the front because
we want to keep telling peoplethis is what we're on about.
And so there's this lovely thingthat happens throughout that.
And yes, I think an outcome ofthat is that you have less
people who who uh the the AGMbecomes less of a moment where
(40:35):
that's the announcement thing.
And so, but that doesn't meanyou you aren't doing it, it
means you you do it very well.
There's it's not that we havemoments of expressing the
vision, expressing the visionand what we're hoping and
praying God's doing something.
We do at all moments, and so wewant to keep our finger on the
pulse there, understand whowe're talking to.
The way we say it at an AGMmight change slightly because of
(40:58):
who's in the room, then who's onwho's there on the Sunday.
But we want to keep thinkingabout how do I help everyone in
this church, all of this flock,together want the things that
God wants for themselves and theworld.
SPEAKER_02 (41:12):
Thanks so much for coming in and sharing that with
us.
Dave Moore is the executivepastor at Hunter Bible Church in
Newcastle.
Joe Gibbs, consultant with ReachAustralia.
My name is Dominic Steele.
You've been with us on ThePastor's Heart, and we will look
forward to your company nextTuesday afternoon.
The most dangerous meeting in your church.
We're rethinking the annualgeneral meeting.
It is the pastor's heart.
It's Dominic Steele, Joe Gibbs,and Dave Moore are our guests.
Why do church annual generalmeetings go wrong?
And how do you run one thatbuilds trust?
For many pastors, the annualgeneral meeting is something to
be survived, not led.
(00:58):
For some, it's a meeting whereold tensions resurface and where
trust quietly erodes.
But we don't just want to docompliance.
We want to build confidence.
How do you lead an AGM thatstrengthens, not damages, your
church?
And how can you turn an annualgeneral meeting from being a
(01:19):
governance headache to being aleadership moment?
Today on The Pastor's Heart,we're talking about how to plan
and run an excellent church AGMlegally, pastorally, and with
gospel clarity.
Dave Moore from Hunter BibleChurch and Joe Gibbs from Reach
Australia who are with us.
Well, Dave, let's start with thePastor's Heart and uh what
(01:39):
should be our heart posture assenior leaders as we run up to
the AGM?
SPEAKER_01 (01:46):
Yeah.
I think a lot of time we canfeel like it is a threat, and
it's almost like a shareholdersmeeting that we get that sense
of, oh, I've got to proveeverything.
This is their moment where theycan tell me I'm doing it wrong.
But the reality is, just becauseit's not a Sunday event, just
because it's not church, wedon't take our pastor's hat off.
(02:07):
We're still the shepherd of thesheep.
And so this is a shepherdingmoment, and we look out, these
are not shareholders, these areour flock that we want to love
and care.
And so that's probably one ofthe big differences to a
shareholders' meeting.
A shareholders' meeting, they'rethey're coming to make sure that
you, the CEO, are you doing theright thing.
But at a church AGM, this isit's it's about what they are
(02:28):
doing.
It's not about what you'redoing, it's about what they, the
church.
They are the church.
We we I suppose you.
Yeah, we we with them, we aregoing, this is what we are gonna
do.
And so it's uh so the heart thatwe want to cultivate is one
where we look out and seebrothers and sisters who we want
to lead and love really well andcall them to this great work
(02:48):
that Jesus is doing in ourchurch in the world.
Heart posture, Joe.
SPEAKER_00 (02:54):
Yeah, I've been in Titus for my daily Bible
reading, and uh Paul writesabout avoiding division and
quarrels and controversy, andthat's been a lot of my
experience across a number ofyears at different AGMs, but to
stress the things of the gospel.
And so I think that's reallyimportant, uh, not for the
(03:14):
senior pastor, but for thecongregation members coming
along.
Uh, not to be focused ondivision, but actually thinking
how we're united in the gospel,what are the important things of
the gospel that we need to talkabout at the church AGM?
SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
Let's talk division for a moment.
I mean, we look over at GoodShip Hunter Bible Church and it
all looks like it's going well.
But um you had some pretty messyones early on.
SPEAKER_01 (03:37):
Yeah, I I think so.
One of the things that's worthrecognizing is uh if you're the
senior leader of a church, whenyou arrive, whatever members,
church members have been therebefore you, they kind of see it
as their church and you've comein to their church.
But anyone who arrives at yourchurch after you've arrived,
they see it as your church andthey're joining your church.
(03:59):
And so that's part of the thingthat can be happening at an AGM
is kind of the old the old hats,the people who've been there for
a while, they can uh they canget a bit defensive or unsure
about feeling like you're takingover what they're doing.
And so there's a real culturalthing there that you want to
love them and and and speak intothat.
(04:21):
But yeah, over the years there'sbeen some hard moments,
particularly if as church grows,what your AGM looks like
changes.
So when you've got a church of50, 60, your AGM looks very
different to when you've got achurch of 500, 600, 1000.
And so for people who've beenthere for a long time and
they've got an idea of what thisis what we always do in our
AGMs, when you try to change itto do what's more suitable, they
(04:45):
can find that hard.
So that's some of the issueswe've had over the years.
You've been through a few messyAGMs, Joe.
SPEAKER_00 (04:52):
Uh yeah, I've been involved in a range of church
denominations and parachurchorganizations.
So I've seen some good ones andnot so good ones, which was why
I wrote an article on it.
Um, I think I agree with Dave.
I think also when you get peoplewhere there's something that
they just haven't resolved withthe senior pastor, this they can
feel that this is their momentto kind of bring it out
(05:13):
publicly.
Um, but I think also people whoare involved in organizations
elsewhere who feel who've got abit of um experience in
governance, uh, this is theirmoment to kind of use their
authority sometimes.
So there can be a whole bunch ofidentity things happening for
people as well.
But also I just think that lackof clarity.
When we're not clear, when wedon't communicate clearly what
(05:35):
the purpose of the AGM is, thenpeople can kind of bundle in
whatever their expectation is.
Um, and sometimes I just seepeople bringing stuff that I
think this could have beensolved in an email.
So why is it happening herereally publicly?
Um, so yeah, there's a wholebunch of messy things that can
happen.
SPEAKER_02 (05:53):
Uh I'm imagining we've got quite a few people um
engaging with us now who are newin that leadership role.
And I think, and and actually,confession, um I've been leading
uh this church here for 24years.
So I mean, at one level, I'vehad 24 AGMs, I'm not new, but
(06:15):
I've just taken overresponsibility for another
church 20 minutes west of hereat Concord, and I'll be leading
their first AGM for me in amonth's time.
So, what's your advice for me asa new person in that situation?
Uh let's start with you, Joe.
SPEAKER_00 (06:34):
Oh, yeah, that because that's tricky.
Like it's very new.
You haven't had a chance to forthem to get to know you.
SPEAKER_02 (06:41):
Not much.
I mean, I mean, we've had oneweek together so far, um, last
Sunday, and then I think the AGMwill happen in six, seven weeks'
time.
SPEAKER_00 (06:51):
Yeah.
Um, no chance to have quickwins, like there's no chance to
really to build trust with you.
And I'm guessing um the churchmight have uh joined yours
because it's been struggling insome way, and so there may be
issues in that.
Um, for me, I would be reallygoing relationally, chatting to
as many people as possiblebefore the AGM, chatting about
(07:13):
what it's what's involved, butreally building relationships
before you get in the room.
And I think also like thebeginning of the AGM really sets
the tone.
You get to set the tone and thepurpose of that.
And so doing that well, but in awarm and an honest and uh naming
the things that might be there,that would they would be my
thoughts just because peoplemight be just feeling anxious
(07:37):
about who you are.
Can they trust you?
Are there things that you can doto build a bit of trust and
relationship beforehand?
SPEAKER_01 (07:45):
Yeah, so along with all that, because I think that
relational uh beforehand isgood.
Say the the second mostdangerous meeting is the meeting
before the meeting.
It's the it's the one you havewith other people beforehand,
going, hey, what are we gonnatalk about here?
I think the other thing to do atthe AGM, so one of the
principles we've tried toimplement is uh question time
ends when there's no morequestions.
(08:05):
So that we want we want tocreate a thing, a sense, uh
trust that you can ask questionsuntil the room is finished with
questions, so that the the vibeat the end is there are no more
questions.
Everyone's got all theirquestions out, and so the way
you answer questions becomes soimportant.
And that this is probably thetrickiest thing about using
(08:27):
AGMs, not using AGMs, makingsure AGMs build trust.
Because the way you respond inthose moments, they can be some
of the hardest moments torespond with godliness and
calmness, and so that's that'swhere in those moments when the
hard question comes up, whenwe've had we've had questions,
(08:47):
people have stood up with tearsin their eyes.
Why has this happened?
And in that moment, you want tobe their pastor, you want to
love them and not be defensive.
You want to understand, andsometimes you say, Look, I'd
love to chat to you about thatsome more.
Can we grab a grab a coffeeafter after this?
Let's that is you want to modelbeing a pastor in that moment
(09:08):
rather than the CEO saying,Well, that's not what happened.
SPEAKER_03 (09:12):
This is the other thing.
SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
You want to that will build more trust.
The way people see how yourespond to those questions is
what builds the trust long term.
SPEAKER_00 (09:21):
And recognizing the emotion, the impact on them,
like that pastoral approachbefore you're giving the
technical answer.
That's right.
It's interesting.
I was talking to a pastor thisweek, and he was talking about
the one-another commands inscripture, and he said there's
no command to trust one another,and that trust is earned in the
family of God, and that's partof their team kind of ethos.
SPEAKER_02 (09:41):
It takes a long time.
SPEAKER_00 (09:42):
It does.
SPEAKER_01 (09:42):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (09:43):
But you're really, you're really building trust
with very little to work with inthis situation.
SPEAKER_01 (09:47):
And sometimes the questions come without the
emotion, but you don't find outuntil after you answer it.
Actually, there was a lot ofemotion behind that.
They just did a really good jobof hiding.
Oh, okay, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (09:59):
Um, one of my friends said preparing well for
an AGM is pastoral care.
Um, in that he said you wantadvanced circulation of
documents, no surprises on thenight, people arriving already
informed.
And that's um not bureaucracy,but kindness and trust building
discuss.
SPEAKER_00 (10:20):
Yeah, I agree.
I think often the AGM has a bigworkload and it kind of sneaks
up on the senior pastor.
Um, and so it just often feels alittle bit um disorganized.
Uh, reports are not necessarilysent out early.
Um, and yeah, so it can justhave that edge of um, oh, we're
(10:42):
giving you this information, butit's last minute.
So sending things out early,really important.
Uh, sending out reports that areactually focused on uh the
biblical focus of disciplemaking, so that that sets the
tone already.
Not necessarily a report thatlists every single ministry in
the church, uh, which just talksabout activity and busyness, but
(11:05):
not actually what we are allunited in the gospel focusing
on, um, that can also beunhelpful and unpastoral to
people.
So I think a lot of that interms of report preparation is
really important.
SPEAKER_02 (11:18):
Let's talk then about that communication and
that reporting and if you likestrategic priorities and goal
setting and that kind of thing.
How much do you put in of that?
SPEAKER_01 (11:31):
So I think as we as we pull together our AGMs, there
are the things we have to do, wehave got to give a financial
report.
But really, the big theme ofthem is how we have seen God at
work in our church and whatwe're hoping, hoping God will do
in the future.
And so that's whether you callthat strategic or not, uh, in
(11:52):
some sense it is, but it's aboutwhich wanted we're wanting to
help our church understand thatwhat we're doing in the Bible
each week actually has uh it'spart of an ongoing plan that
we're pulling together under Godwith their help to say this is
what we're hoping God will do.
And so uh I want that to bereally gospel driven.
(12:15):
I want uh so we open the Bibleand the the picture we're
painting is not about church,this thing of we want to be keep
looking at the fields, not thebarns.
We don't want to look at howmany, how much don't want to
just see how much church hasgrown.
We want to see that in light ofthe hundreds of thousands of
people who are lost in our localarea so that our church is grown
(12:36):
by hundred, hundred people orten people.
There's thousands that wehaven't reached, so we want to
see everything in context tothat.
Uh and so I want people to atthe end of the AGM go, oh, that
was really good to know wherechurch is at.
But gee, there's lots to prayfor.
Gee, there's so much more thatwouldn't God wouldn't you do
(12:57):
great things here?
We want people to be passionate,excited about what would be
there, and then it's working outwhat's the best way to
communicate that, what's thebest way to help people grasp
that?
And so there's going to be somepeople in the room who they're
gonna love the strategic plan.
There's gonna be other people inthe room where you tell them the
story of what has happened andhow you want it to repeat it.
Yeah.
So you're working out how tocommunicate that well.
(13:18):
One of the ways we do that onour team is we get uh we get
Greg to kind of um Greg's yoursenior pastor.
Greg's our senior pastor, and sohe will uh kind of run through
this with our with the boardfirst and say this is what we're
kind of thinking.
And so he kind of tries it outand then he'll go through with
the staff.
And again, who gets anotherchance to try it out?
SPEAKER_02 (13:39):
How do I attend to the workshopping his report?
SPEAKER_01 (13:41):
Yeah, yeah.
So that when we get to the AGM,this is something he's thought
about, we've worked out whatworks, what what resonates well.
SPEAKER_02 (13:47):
Well, here's a question at your annual general
meeting, what percentage of thechurch attend?
Oh, a very small percentage ofthe church.
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (13:55):
The keen beans.
SPEAKER_02 (13:57):
Yeah.
Whereas probably it's the casethat I'm just thinking about the
smaller church where um thechurch of 50 or something where
the AGM happens after the Sundaymeeting, actually, that might be
most people attend.
Yeah.
If it's at a quite a differentdynamic there, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:14):
Yeah, if if if it's at a time when people can easily
get there.
Can I go back to your commentabout it's not necessarily
strategic?
Because the word strategicsounds high-level, it does,
complicated, intense.
SPEAKER_01 (14:25):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:26):
But it's really just having plans and priorities as a
church, things you're going tofocus in on amongst ever all the
possibilities and be attemptingto move somewhere to lead people
in the gospel towards maturityor to becoming disciples.
And so, really, it's being clearon those things and then saying,
what what impact, what progresshave we seen on that over the
(14:49):
last 12 months?
I think that's what it means tobe strategic.
I like that.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Um, and I think so, then it'sreally important not just to be
(15:26):
reporting on activity, but whathas the impact been?
So it might be through stories,it might be a church survey that
you've done where you've seenwhere people have grown in their
uh Christ-likeness or theirmaturity.
Um, but you'd also want to bereporting on meaningful data,
uh, not measuring everything,but the really key things that
(15:47):
are around making and maturingdisciples in a way that people
can see how that the data'smeaningful, not just a number.
SPEAKER_02 (15:54):
So that's interesting.
I've heard you say beforestories are for the
congregation, stats are forstaff.
But are you arguing againstyourself here?
SPEAKER_00 (16:05):
Ah well, I think the whole spread of stats I wouldn't
give to the congregation, buthow many people became
Christians this year?
That's something we've all beenpraying for.
That's something we have allbeen like we've been inviting
friends, that kind of thing.
SPEAKER_02 (16:20):
So you do want some of those key stats there.
SPEAKER_00 (16:22):
Yeah, you wouldn't want to bamboozle people, um,
but it's really that what arethe what are the key high-level
things that we've been prayingfor as a church since the last
AGM?
SPEAKER_02 (16:32):
What percentage congregation change since the
year before?
What are the what are the reallyhigh-level stats you want us to
include?
SPEAKER_00 (16:37):
Yeah, so turn in terms of making disciples, I
would say number of people whobecome a Christian, uh, number
of people who've attended yourconversion, like your
evangelistic course, to hearabout that.
And I think also the percentageof newcomers at your church, and
not just a number.
So saying 47 people turned upthis year, if you're a church of
50 people, that's healthy.
(16:58):
If you're a church of 800people, that is not healthy at
all.
So it needs to be a benchmarkcompared to average Sunday
attendance, something like that.
SPEAKER_02 (17:06):
If our diocese has the goal, I mean, just as a
Sydney diocese person, if ourdiocese has set the goal of we
want to grow by 5% throughconversion growth every year,
every year for the next fiveyears, then actually to be
talking about that number at theannual general meeting would be
a really healthy thing for toactually say we are serious
(17:29):
about this and we're and we'renaming it at the annual general
meeting.
SPEAKER_00 (17:32):
Yeah.
And it provides an opportunitythis year to have an honest look
and say, where are we up to?
We did not get there.
And what needs to change interms of our prayerfulness, in
terms of what we're doing as achurch with the limited
resources we've got, how are wegoing to change that decision?
SPEAKER_02 (17:46):
So I mean, taking leadership in this church at
Concord, there's 40 peoplethere, and we've got to have a
target of two.
Yeah.
Great.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (17:55):
Yeah.
I think even in this, I I evenwant to say there's some of that
I want to see more AGM things inour normal Sundays, and more of
our Sundays in our AGMs.
That is, I I I think it'd begreat on our for not every
Sunday, don't hear me say that,but to in our normal sermons, we
are saying, hey, just lettingyou know guys, we if we're
(18:17):
hoping, we're praying as achurch to see five percent of
people converted this year intoour church.
That that doesn't need to waitfor the AGM.
That's an all of church thing.
Yeah.
And so the AGM can be a pointwhere you collect a whole bunch
of those things that you'retalking about as a church
altogether.
SPEAKER_02 (18:34):
Now, what briefing do you give your staff before
the AGM about how they are toparticipate or not participate
in the discussion, Dave?
SPEAKER_01 (18:42):
We say to our staff, here's all the inf all all of
the information.
Uh, we're giving you loads oftime to ask your questions
before the AGM.
In the staff meeting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Because because so much of it isaround trust, it does it.
There's nothing wrong with staffasking asking questions in the
AGM, but it does it does suggestsomething's not right here.
(19:03):
Why don't they know about this?
And so uh, but we do say, hey,if there's a way, if there's a
point where you can explainstuff, so quite often as so as
we do question time in a in ourAGM, it's often Greg and I out
the front, depending on what isthe question more about big
vision and strategy, or thequestion more about the details,
we will often throw to uh otherpeople.
(19:25):
Staff who knows more about atopic.
Yeah, that's right.
Because we want to show thatit's not just us, it's actually
everyone.
In fact, not even just staff.
We'll throw to other members ofthe church.
So I can tell you.
SPEAKER_02 (19:33):
So one of the lines I give them is you have much
more opportunity to weigh in onthe strategy decisions of the
church in the staff meetingsthan the membership have.
This is their moment to weighin, you know, you get the moment
in the staff meeting.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:49):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (19:49):
Joe?
unknown (19:50):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:51):
Um, well, I was going to move us on to a
different area, which is likewe've talked a lot about
strategic priorities, but uh theoften overlooked area of
financial reporting, like theboring, complicated stuff.
Yeah, just just thinking aboutthat.
Um, I think it's oftenbamboozling for people.
It's an opportunity for thepeople with the accounting
degree to really shine, buteveryone else to feel really
(20:12):
lost.
Um, but I but I think with that,like really just preparing well,
plain English stuff, but alsomaking uh sure that everything
points to disciple making.
Like the reason we have abuilding is not because we want
a building, it's so that peoplecan come and hear the gospel, so
people can grow, like so thatwe've got places to run.
Kids ministry so people can hearthe gospel.
(20:34):
Uh, the reason we've gotfinances is not just to keep our
staff going and everyone happy,but it's it's really about
disciple making.
So just just to be able to makethat connection so it's not just
this weird kind of thing thathappens that people switch off.
SPEAKER_02 (20:48):
Yeah.
One of the frustrating things Ithink I find about our
denomination is that um we startspending the budget on the first
of January.
SPEAKER_03 (20:56):
Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (20:56):
And then we approve the budget in the middle of
March.
And I just think that's mad.
Um what do you guys do in theother denomination?
Do you have sensible systems?
SPEAKER_01 (21:09):
Apparently it comes down to what your constitution
says.
And so we worked out ourconstitution doesn't require the
a our uh general meeting AGM toapprove the budget.
And so we had been doing itbecause we looked at the Sydney
Anglicans and went, oh, that'swhat they do at their AGM, we
should do that, until we got tothe point and looked at it and
went, Oh, we we actually don'thave to.
The the board approves the thebudget, and so we report on it,
(21:30):
we say this is the this is thebudget that the board's
approved, uh, and we explain it.
So so much of what you weresaying, Joe, is um wanting to
make sure that this is not justcontinuing on.
Every cent here has this heartbehind it to see people grow.
And so that's the that's theimportant thing.
But no, we don't need to we'vewe've reduced the number of
(21:51):
things we vote on to being verysmall, and we still have someone
who I think has voted, he's gothis name in every AGM for the
last 20 years.
Right.
And but the the opportunities tovote is getting smaller and
smaller.
SPEAKER_02 (22:04):
What do you think, Joe, about that that I mean part
of the way we've addressed it isby having a vision campaign in
term four.
SPEAKER_03 (22:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (22:12):
And by having a vision campaign, we set out what
we're trying to do and we'resaying, and that's gonna cost us
this much.
And so then people will put inpledge forms and we'll either
have enough money or not.
But there's a transparencymoment in October, November, and
so when we actually vote on itin March, everyone knows it's
just formally approving whatreally was tacitly approved in
(22:33):
October, November.
But I just think how does itwork in another situation where
really you have started spendingthe money in January and they're
only given a voice in March?
SPEAKER_00 (22:48):
Yeah, I agree with you.
Like our we actually run to adifferent calendar rhythm that
really makes sense to have yourpledging towards the end of the
year.
I mean, that's also the timewhen you recruit.
Incruitting people forpositions.
Like there's a whole rhythm tothe church calendar that makes
sense.
So really, uh, in my view, theAGM, if it's happening in March,
(23:10):
is really a touch point aboutthat, about this is where we're
going, but also a look acrossthe whole year.
Whereas often in the third orfourth quarter, it's a looking
ahead, planning the budget.
So this is uh an accountabilitywhere we've come from, uh, how
we're going on that, as well asa looking forward.
So I think the the normal rhythmthat you've got makes more
sense.
Same for yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (23:31):
Yeah, we've we've actually started to push it out
to do a five-year plan.
Go, this is what the budget'sgoing to look like over the next
five years.
Obviously, as as you get furtheron, the less certain we can be,
but at least giving people thatimage of how things will go.
SPEAKER_02 (23:46):
What about things to be read rather than
presentations to be heard?
Yeah.
That um some documents need tobe tabled to satisfy governance,
to preserve institutionalmemory, but shouldn't dominate
the meeting.
Whereas spoken content actuallyit's of a different nature.
SPEAKER_00 (24:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:05):
Talk to us about that.
SPEAKER_00 (24:06):
Yeah, the reports beforehand should be much more
detailed.
That's why you need them sentout beforehand so people can
really read them, absorb them,think through them, think
through questions that they'vegot.
But at the meeting, there shouldbe uh a statement of an
assumption that they're taken asread.
And so it's really a high level.
Uh, this is this is what how weas God's people under God have
(24:29):
gone over the last 12 months inthese strategic areas around
disciple making.
It shouldn't be the deep dive,it shouldn't be the detail, and
it should be that focus onreally on impact.
Um, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (24:41):
What about how does the chair, the senior leader,
set the tone for the meeting?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (24:46):
Yeah, well, I think uh, well, I mean, there's stuff
that needs to be done at thebeginning, which is, you know,
quorum and electic a minutesecretary, that shouldn't be the
main game.
That shouldn't be theintroduction.
It shouldn't start with a wholebunch of governance kind of
details.
Um, I think it's a realleadership moment of saying this
is this is the purpose of ourchurch, and this is the purpose
(25:09):
of our AGM underneath thatbigger purpose.
So that's why we are together.
Uh, this is our biblical visionas a church, this is uh what God
has tasked us with as a wholecongregation over the last 12
months, and so this is whatwe're talking about.
So it's it's really thathigh-level setting purpose, so
sets the tone for ourconversations.
You might even talk about um howwe're to love each other, uh
(25:32):
what our conversations will belike during that time, why we're
asking questions.
And I think there's anassumption that people know what
the AGM is, so it can even be uhkind of just an education moment
for people of uh, you know,whatever they've brought,
actually, actually, this iswhat's happening here, and this
is why we're having it.
SPEAKER_02 (25:51):
How can you be an active spiritual leader rather
than a neutral MC?
SPEAKER_01 (25:58):
The uh because we want to see this as a growth
opportunity for people, this iswhere I think opening the Bible
and showing how everything isattached to what God is doing in
his world.
So yeah, this is where I uhhaving that sense that we are
wanting to bring people on ajourney, not just get through
(26:20):
the meeting.
SPEAKER_03 (26:21):
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (26:21):
Uh so I think so just even going back to your you
to your question before abouthow do you launch well, part of
this is think about what happensbefore the meeting.
So the food spread you have outbeforehand, make this enjoyable,
make this fun.
SPEAKER_02 (26:36):
So the the way the way you bring people, I mean, we
do a pot luck dinner, then theLord's Supper.
Oh, great, then the annualgeneral meeting.
SPEAKER_01 (26:46):
Yeah, what what do you do?
Yeah, so we've done bacon andeggs, uh brunch beforehand, uh
or yeah, we'll sting.
SPEAKER_02 (26:55):
So you're doing it Sunday lunchtime, yeah.
So we felt like that left outour evening church.
So we've gone for a week nightso that the evening church does
not feel left out.
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (27:08):
What do you I mean, speak about food and then we'll
come back to time and say butthe vibe you bring, so even when
we do have to do the okay, we'vegot to do the minutes and stuff,
making that fun.
This is hey, we're gettingtogether, we've got to do these
things, but let's have some funwhile we do it.
And so, you know, this is anopportunity to get your name in
(27:29):
the minutes for next year.
Uh, you notice notice who in theminutes we got the name in last
year, let's not get them do it,like just enjoying it.
This is it is when a when youhave a family, even as as
families, when we do familymeetings together, it's not all
humdrum and dry.
This is people we love oneanother.
And so if that's what we wantpeople to do, then we want to
(27:50):
lead in that as well.
Joe?
SPEAKER_00 (27:53):
I think you can think about um the way you set
it up.
So it doesn't have to be likerows of chairs, it can be
tables.
We've done tables before, yeah.
Yeah, you can encourage peopleto sit on tables with people
they don't know because if oftenthere's rare opportunities for
the whole church to gettogether.
So people are seeing people theyhaven't seen for months,
catching up, talking, like so itcan be a great kind of uh within
(28:16):
the church moment and food onthe tables, like it's just has a
nice vibe, maybe some musicbeforehand.
Like it doesn't have to feel dryand anxiety driven, and yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (28:27):
And when you see people at at uh tables, that
means after a report, you cansay, Oh, look, wasn't that
exciting?
Why don't you pray at yourtables right now?
Give thanks to God for what'sthere and pray about what's
coming up.
Yeah, and people get togetherand they that is it's very hard
for people to be grumpy aboutthings when they're going to
their Heavenly Father asking forhelp.
It's it it's lovely.
SPEAKER_02 (28:46):
I really like that.
I mean, sorry, I like praying attables, but I also like music at
dinner.
SPEAKER_03 (28:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (28:52):
While I've gone for the Lord's Supper is I look for
those moments where we as achurch family can have a meal
together and then look for thosemoments where we can do the
Lord's Supper in the context ofthe meal.
So it's not just a ceremonialmeal in a Sunday situation, it's
a meal in a real meal.
Yeah.
(29:13):
I love it doing the Lord'sSupper on Sunday lunch on the
weekend away and um and on theannual general meeting potluck
dinner, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (29:23):
Yeah.
And I think it's also lovelydoing the Lord's Supper.
It it reminds people that you'retheir pastor before you're a CEO
or uh, you know, a manager orall those sorts of things.
So I I think it sets a reallynice time.
SPEAKER_02 (29:34):
So talk to me about elections because uh we think
differently about I mean, on theone hand, as a staff team, we're
all about thinking, will we askthis person to be area lead
here, will we ask this person,and we've got to make sure we
don't ask this person to do thisbecause they're um already
serving too much here.
And and yet you get to anelection and it's actually not
our responsibility to or is itour what do you do?
SPEAKER_01 (29:58):
Uh we yeah, we don't have any elections at our AGMs.
What's easy?
Yeah, what do you guys like?
What do you guys have to do?
SPEAKER_02 (30:09):
There is a sense that they are the shareholders
and they do have a moment toactually vote.
And and somebody has to beresponsible.
I mean, I always say to people,I'm not responsible for the
money.
If the money's a mess, youelected dud people, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (30:28):
So but I think you're right, Dominic.
I think um we pay attention.
Term three, usually in the year,we're like, okay, who in this
ministry is going to keep?
We're thinking about recruitmentgenerally across all of our
leaders.
Um, but we don't tend to thinkabout office holders for church.
And then all of a sudden you getto this AGM in March, and it can
(30:48):
feel like it's this last minutescramble and sometimes a feeling
of, well, just to get anyone,we're really lucky.
Rather than actually thinking,uh, you know, chatting to
people, how are you feelingabout that for next year?
Are you planning to stand again?
Um, and looking for people whohave a real heart for the lost
and are growing as a disciplethemselves.
(31:09):
So thinking about theircharacter and convictions,
definitely helpful to havecompetencies.
SPEAKER_02 (31:14):
I mean, so I walked into our cafe on um on uh Sunday
night a couple of weeks ago, andthere was a a young lady there,
and I was just talking to her.
I worked out she worked attreasury, and I thought, Ooh, we
should get you to come on tochurch council because um this
would be great governanceexperience learning for you, and
(31:35):
you could be a future treasurerof our church, do you know?
SPEAKER_00 (31:39):
Yes, and you want to be thinking about that, yeah,
but also the long-term, youknow, and thinking ahead for
three years' time.
Thinking ahead for three years'time, and also is this someone
who is really growing as adisciple of Jesus?
Are they concerned about thosedisciple making purposes,
priorities for our church?
Because you really for theseroles, you really need that
(31:59):
happening.
SPEAKER_02 (32:00):
If I just come back to when I just said a minute
ago, I'm not responsible.
I mean, I do take it that I amresponsible for everything, do
you know?
But there is a demarcation inthe Anglican system where the um
where the the members vote forthe wardens who are responsible
for treasure and money and umand the minister is responsible
for overall vision and Bible andspiritual matters.
(32:21):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:22):
Um I think this is where when you're recruiting
those people on, helping themsee that this is such a way to
use your gifts for the kingdom.
This is this is not, oh, wereally need this whole field.
It's that I think God has giftedyou in these particular ways.
Would you consider doing thisfor as many terms as you can?
You probably have a limit on anumber of terms.
No, it's none.
(32:42):
Yeah.
I'd I'd be I'd be encouragingpeople to would you do this as a
way of growing the kingdom, ofserving the the people around
you for as long as you can?
Because as people do it year in,year out, they get better at it.
And so it's such a it's sodisheartening when someone's
been doing something for awhile, and it's so what takes
(33:02):
them an hour, if you give it tosomeone else, it's gonna take 10
hours for them to do, and you'reback to square one again.
And so longevity in these roles,there are risks, but it's so
helpful as well.
And so it's managing those andencouraging people to see it for
what it is, and in our in ourdenomination, actually, the
roles of nominator, the peoplewho pick the successor of the
(33:25):
senior minister, and making surethose people are th
theologically um going to make agood decision.
SPEAKER_02 (33:34):
Yeah, I mean, so important every year for 24
years, I've I've had to make wwork hard to make sure sense, I
mean, really good,gospel-hearted people.
There was one year where I gotit wrong, and I thought, oh
dear, I can't resign this year.
You can't resign this year.
SPEAKER_00 (33:51):
But also keeping those qualifications for those
roles on your website so peoplecan look it up at any time.
It's not this, oh, I think Iwant to do that, but it might be
like 20 hours a week, like anindicate, like we do with all
our other roles, you know, asense of how much time it'll
take, what sorts of peopleyou're looking for, what will
like what's involved in therole.
We we don't tend to do that.
(34:12):
We just assume people know whatthe roles will be and then hope
that they'll stand.
SPEAKER_02 (34:16):
What about disagreements?
And I mean, talk to me about amotion of no confidence or a
motion from the floor saying wewant to go in this direction,
not the direction.
What do you think about how?
I mean, they're the things welike in bed terrorise.
SPEAKER_00 (34:34):
No sleep beforehand.
unknown (34:36):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (34:38):
It hasn't happened to me.
It hasn't happened for a I can'toh we've had something like that
in the past.
Uh I there's a recognition.
So one of the things we do onour board, our elders' board, is
we do most of our decisionsthrough just simply through
consensus.
The problem with doing that iswe get out of the habit of
(34:59):
having to vote.
And so every so often we go,okay, we're gonna do a vote to
go through the motion of this isnormal, normalizing that we're
not all going to agree, andthat's okay.
And this is one of the thingsthat when you have AGMs that go
on for a while, that everyoneagrees, um, then if someone
doesn't, then that can seemawful.
(35:21):
When actually it's okay ifpeople don't necessarily agree,
but we haven't normalized that.
I'm not sure how you would bedoing that well, but if you get
the sense that this is going tobe a tricky thing, I think
that's what I'd be wanting to dois normalize and say, look, one
of the lovely things aboutchurch is we don't all have to
agree.
And AGMs give us an opportunityfor certain decisions where we
(35:42):
get to make them like this.
And and when we can look acrossthe table and say, Oh, yeah, you
voted for that, and I didn't,and that's okay, we're still
brothers and sisters.
I'd want to be really pushingdown that end so that the
fallout of the disagreement,that's the issue that that that
Christians have disagreement isnot an issue.
That's normal.
(36:03):
The fallout from disagreement,that's a Christian issue.
That that shouldn't happen.
There should be friends loveeach other, brothers and sisters
in Christ.
That and so if something's gonnahappen that means you can't be
doing that, yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (36:17):
I that's the much larger issue rather than it's
interesting to hear you saythat.
I mean, you're in an independentchurch context.
In the Anglican denominationalcontext that I'm in, I think,
well, I go to the synod andwe're really clear that there
are debates, disagreements, andvotes, or I go to the standing
committee and there are debates,disagreements, and votes, and
(36:38):
we're used to actuallydisagreeing with people that we
like and and then not being, ifyou like, um uh relational
damage um from the we've had adispar different disagreement
about which way we should go,and we I lost the vote, you
know.
Um we're not at all used to itin the congregational context.
SPEAKER_00 (37:02):
Yeah.
And Patrick Lentoni, you talkabout the difference between
healthy conflict where you wantissues brought up and you can
debate them for the good of thegospel to actually have the best
way forward and personalconflict.
And so you don't want thathappening.
Titus similarly, Paul says, warna divisive person once, warn
them twice, and then havenothing to do with them.
(37:23):
So there's that longer-termdiscipleship work of is this
happening in your congregationwith this person long term?
Have you been addressing that?
Like there are yeah, longer-termthings.
SPEAKER_02 (37:33):
Now, I'm just thinking follow-up from the
annual general meeting, becauseas you said, there's only a
small percentage there, but wecan we could actually use some
of the reporting from the annualgeneral meeting to keep pushing
in those discipleship goals,Joe.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (37:49):
Uh some of the reporting, so sending out the
minutes, what are you thinking?
SPEAKER_02 (37:53):
I'm even I'm just playing with this idea.
Yeah, okay.
And it's it's thinking about umthis discussion that's prompted
me to think about it.
But at one level, it's not evenminutes, it's really uh sending
out the key facts that werepresented, you know.
If I put it in the minutes,they're not going to read it.
Whereas if I if I actually workout We actually wanted to
(38:15):
communicate to our people thesethings at the AGM for the growth
of our church.
Yeah.
Well, let's work out how to rollthat information out.
Not just who was elected andthat kind of thing.
But how do we how do we anyway?
That's a new thought for me.
Uh it's not something I've donein the past, but as I've thought
about best practice AGM for thisdiscussion, I thought we could
(38:37):
get better in that area.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (38:38):
I mean, you want your AGM report to be engaging,
and lots of churches are doingthat now with photos and
stories.
Like it's something that youwant to be giving out beyond the
AGM.
So thinking about that so it'snot some A4 boring font, like
really making it a great,colourful thing to give out.
Really, really important.
You can give that out um at yourbelong courses as people join
(39:01):
you.
Um, but I wonder if you'rethinking about reporting that
could happen on a Sunday, likesomething that touches on, I
mean, you'd want to be thinkingabout your key strategic
priorities, but they're reallydiscipleship priorities, and
that would be happeningpost-AGM, but also during the
life of the church anyway.
I guess I've got a question ofif you do too much of it, would
it stop people coming to theAGM?
(39:22):
Like if they can get it on aSunday anyway.
Is there a point?
SPEAKER_02 (39:25):
And if I was to just argue against myself for a
minute, um, I have found thatthat vision moment, particularly
for us, has happened in thatOctober-November vision casting
season.
Yeah.
And so we've not done, I mean,when you just talked about the
the great glossy brochure, yeah.
For us, it's been actually thebrochure that we make in October
and November.
Yeah, and then we haven't put asmuch effort into the March
(39:47):
brochure.
And um, but I could see that ifyou weren't doing as much in the
October, November, you ought tobe doing more in the March.
Yeah.
What do you do, Dave?
SPEAKER_01 (39:54):
Yeah, so we probably do more similar to what you're
talking about.
That that uh we want we keeptalking about the vision and the
prayer of Hunter Bowl Churchjust bleeds out in everything we
do.
So it's not just the preaching,it's the hosts at the front.
Uh the other day, one of oursong leaders, in between songs,
talked about how we'd love tosee one in ten people saved in
(40:15):
Newcastle and Lake Mac.
And I don't think someone toldhim to do that.
He just worked out, oh, this iswhat we do out the front because
we want to keep telling peoplethis is what we're on about.
And so there's this lovely thingthat happens throughout that.
And yes, I think an outcome ofthat is that you have less
people who who uh the the AGMbecomes less of a moment where
(40:35):
that's the announcement thing.
And so, but that doesn't meanyou you aren't doing it, it
means you you do it very well.
There's it's not that we havemoments of expressing the
vision, expressing the visionand what we're hoping and
praying God's doing something.
We do at all moments, and so wewant to keep our finger on the
pulse there, understand whowe're talking to.
The way we say it at an AGMmight change slightly because of
(40:58):
who's in the room, then who's onwho's there on the Sunday.
But we want to keep thinkingabout how do I help everyone in
this church, all of this flock,together want the things that
God wants for themselves and theworld.
SPEAKER_02 (41:12):
Thanks so much for coming in and sharing that with
us.
Dave Moore is the executivepastor at Hunter Bible Church in
Newcastle.
Joe Gibbs, consultant with ReachAustralia.
My name is Dominic Steele.
You've been with us on ThePastor's Heart, and we will look
forward to your company nextTuesday afternoon.
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