PST SPECIAL: Analysis Of NFL Draft Prospects With Matt Waldman

On this PST SPECIAL podcast, Jeff sat down with Matt Waldman from the Rookie Scouting Portfolio (mattwaldman.com and mattwaldmanrsp.com) to discuss and analyze a number of college football prospects heading to the NFL Draft? A look at the top quarterbacks in this draft class. Plus, a discussion about the running back position, and which tight ends may be a good fit for the Philadelphia Eagles. Matt also dove into a number of under-the-radar prospects who may just be those diamonds in the rough. A great discussion about a number of NFL Draft prospects!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Welcome to this Philadelphia Sports Table podcast show special podcast. Yes,
it's a PSD special podcast because we have one of
the best in the business when it comes to draft
evaluations scouting evaluations. Again, one of the best in the business.
We've got mister Matt Waldman with us this week, coming

(00:44):
to us from his little studio areas we are getting
set for this NFL Draft. Matt, Buddy, it is great
to see you. Thanks so much for jumping on the
Piladelphia Sports Table this week.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Man, Yeah, Jeff, I always look forward to it. So
this is gonna be fun, some fun time of year. Absolutely,
people are excited about what the possibilities are gonna Yeah,
you know how that's gonna work out.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
And it's been an intriguing class to study.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Absolutely has. Let's get into just some of the prospects,
of course that we're gonna be talking about. But the
one gentleman that I wanted to really dive into is
a guy named Travis Hunter, who all of us who
follow college prospects and what may happen with this NFL
draft and the talent in this draft. Matt, we usually

(01:24):
don't see an offensive and defensive athlete like we have
seen with Travis Hunter and the questions persisting about whether
or not he's going to be playing mostly cornerback, mostly
wide receiver, combination of both for whatever team ends up
drafting him. And when it comes to him playing, say,
wide receiver in the NFL, you do offensive draft analysis, Matt,

(01:48):
I'm wondering what type of wide receiver comp should we
be looking at when it comes to Travis Hunter. I mean,
maybe perhaps a Justin Jefferson, maybe Larry Fitzgerald. I'm wondering
what type of that mold does Travis Hunter fit into.
What are your thoughts as you've been evaluating him, my friend?

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Sure?

Speaker 2 (02:07):
I mean well, I mean, first of all, Hunter has
pretty much told the media that if he doesn't get
to play both positions, he'll think about retiring.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Isn't that amazing. I'm not even signed yet in the NFL,
but I may retire if it doesn't work out the
way I wanted to.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Yeah, exactly, But I mean, listen, he's adamant. He wants
to be He wants to be the next Sammy Ball
or Jim Thorpe in terms of playing both sides of
the ball. So it's admirable that he has that kind
of aspiration. We're going to see how coaches handle that,
and it's very possible that there's one scenario where he
could get drafted and the coach and staff feels like
he's more of it. He's better off as a cornerback,

(02:48):
and others feel like he's better off as a wide receiver,
and they're both positions that get drafted in the first
round pretty early, though wide receiver makes more money on
the whole. Yes, so I would expect wide receivers the
one that the teams will think will be the most impactful.
But it's very possible that you could see some combination
of both, or teams start off by saying we're going

(03:10):
to put you in this one position primarily, but we're
gonna let you do both, but it's going to be
smaller packages. And then we'll see if they actually make
good on making them a full time player at both. Yeah,
you know, and see if maybe his perspective changes in
the NFL with the rigors of the game and realizes,
maybe I'm not helping my team as much by demanding

(03:31):
this type of thing, because you know, twenty one, twenty two,
twenty three years of age, you're an adult you're a
grown man, but you don't have a lot of experience
being an adult or a grown man.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Absolutely, especially around veterans who have been in the league
for so long. Depending on what team he goes to.
I mean, there are veterans in this league that are
going to say, hey, listen, slow up, put on the brakes, Travis. Okay,
you know this is our league, our team. We've been
here for quite some time. You're going to need to
learn the ropes.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yeah, you're you're not helping us pay my family's mortgage
with us losing like this because you're tired, or that
you're unprepared, or that you didn't understand this coverage because
you're trying to split your time between two things. Or
it turns out that he is doing it well and
proves everybody that proves himself right.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
So that's very possible.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
But I think as a in terms of comparisons go
you know, certainly when you mentioned to Justin Jefferson, Larry Fitzgerald,
those guys who win the ball very well, who run
strong routes, and so there's some there's some things there
that you can make that type of comparison. If I'm
going to make a comparison between the types of physical

(04:39):
skills that Travis Hunter has, his body composition, you know,
how he plays the game, what he does well technically,
I would say maybe those guys don't match up as
strongly to me in terms of height and weight and
those skills, though he shares some of those things to

(04:59):
win the ball, I would say, maybe more of a
Christal Lava or or a Ricky Piersoll, but better you know,
and and Chris a lovey. We really haven't seen him
hit his ceiling yet because he's playing with a hospital
ball thrower and Derek Carr, who you know. I think
that Chris and and Michael Thomas still sitting somewhere at home.

(05:23):
It's still raven on x about how bad Derek Carr
is as a as a teammate to play with. But
that aside, I would say, if you look at Hunter,
you know the rock runnings there, the skill after the
catch is strong. He certainly can win targets that are
away from his frame and a tight coverage. I'd like

(05:46):
to see him get a little bit more, have a
better plan at the boundary and he is releasing against
the line of scrimmage. I think that he does well
in the college game, but some of the choices he
makes have gotten him pinned to the boundary and the
and we'll get him pinned more often to the boundary
in the pro game if he doesn't figure out that

(06:06):
plan a little bit better. Yeah, but it's not you know,
it's not awful. He's He's a guy that would have
been easily in my top five to six and last
year's star studed wide receiver class. And I think to
say he's a better version of Chris Olave in terms
of what is his ceiling could be tells you that
he can very much be a number one primary wide

(06:29):
receiver for a team.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
It's going to be really interesting to see not only
what team he goes to. As we're talking about that impact,
you're talking about his skill set, Matt, how he's able
to transform from the college ranks over to the NFL.
I think it's going to be a fascinating storyline over
the next couple of years, because, as we know wide receivers,
they don't just come in the league and start dominating,

(06:51):
or they don't really find their footing until you know,
well into that first contract that they have. So it's
gonna be a real, real interesting storyline with Hunter moving
far and really quick. Folks, I failed to mention where
you can find Matt Waldman and his amazing work right
at the beginning of our discussion. I get so excited
when Matt's on, folks, I just got I got all

(07:12):
starry eyed.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
You know that's too funny.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Go to Matt Waldman r SP dot com. That's where
the Rookie Scouting Portfolio is that he has been creating
for years and years and years. Again one of the
best in the business. Again, the Rookie Scouting Portfolio, Matt Waldman,
r SP dot com. And I know you're on like
various social media sites too, correct. I mean we're all

(07:37):
at this point, I think on just about everything. But
I know you're on Twitter. I think you are on
threads as well. If I'm not mistaked, I would say
you're fine.

Speaker 3 (07:46):
Most of my stuff on X Blue.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Sky and YouTube, so nice at Matt Waldman at the
at the you know, more content orient stuff. And then
Matt Waldman's RSB Film Room is my YouTube channel.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
It's been around very good, Yes, exactly. You find a
lot of great stuff on there, for sure. All right, Well, Matt,
I know that our listeners folks who are watching this
as well, we'd love to get into the quarterback talk
heading into each and every NFL draft, and this draft
no difference. So let's get into some of these guys here,
some of these prospects, hoping we can talk about the

(08:19):
top quarterback prospects in terms of their their pocket management,
maybe their processing, and how it's going to relate to
the NFL level of play after they are drafted. So
let's kind of go through cam Ward, Shradar Sanders, and
Jackson dart So why don't we start with cam Ward?
Your thoughts, your evaluation on him. What we may be seeing,

(08:40):
again from a pocket management standpoint is processing. What are
your thoughts here about cam Ward and the evaluations that
you have done well from.

Speaker 3 (08:47):
The college game.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
You know, you look at cam Ward and you realize
that at Washington State and at Miami at his offenses
were built largely on RPOs and screen games. And at
Miami they did a lot of four verticals, which is
basically everybody running a deep route, you know, and then
having to check down with the with the running back okay,

(09:09):
which encourages a lot of offscript type of play and
He's excels off script. He's quick, he's dynamic. He's someone
that can throw on the move. He can create plays.
You know, he sees the field pretty well when it's
in a broken situation like that, and and is takes
appropriate chances and appropriate risks when there's an early play

(09:32):
that opens up. You know, he can drop. He can
finish his drop and deliver the ball downfield and be
pretty accurate in the intermediate and deep range.

Speaker 3 (09:41):
On that level.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
He's when he has to slide to one side or
the other, he does a pretty good job of that.

Speaker 3 (09:47):
His feet are very.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Good in terms of being able to stay in a
position to throw the football with a reasonable amount of accuracy.
What I have concerns about with cam Ward is what
you project down on the line is when you watch
his drop patterns. You know, occasionally you'll see like a
five step rollout or seven step rollout by design, and

(10:08):
the feed are fluid and able to handle that. But
when you're rolling out, you're never really having a termination
point to set up and then throw. So when you
watch him with drops that have a termination point, they're
really fragmented. Like his three steps drops isn't fluid it's
like he takes one step and then and then another
two or it's not like one two three, it's like

(10:32):
one two three or one two three or one two three. Right,
It's just the rhythm is off. And you see that
with three and five step drops. And why is that important?
Because when you start playing in offenses that have more
timing rots and they want you to get that ball
out exactly at the top of your drop, or to

(10:54):
be able to make a second read after the top
of that drop. And if you don't have a defined
rhythm or timing with that, that can really screw up
how you're reading the field. And so that can become
a problem, especially if you're not well practiced with it.
I'm going to give you an example of last year
where a player who had good drops at USC and

(11:16):
even at Arkansas was Caleb Williams. But when you look
at his offense under Shane Waldron at that time, there
were some isolated plays that they ran routinely where Shane
Waldron in the playbook didn't have prescribed drops. So Caleb
Williams it was just like just get back there and

(11:38):
assess and throw. The problem with that is maybe he
should have used a two step drop or one or
a punch drop, or maybe he should have been a
three step drop, maybe should have been a five step drop.
And if you don't know from time to time drop
what the drop should be and you're trying to figure
it out, you're not on the same page with your
receivers with the timing you need, especially in tight man coverage,

(11:59):
and those plays don't work.

Speaker 3 (12:00):
And also does that really inaccurate? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Yeah, And doesn't that affect the foundations then of the
pocket overall pocket management exactly?

Speaker 2 (12:08):
If it affects everything because your timing's off. So now
you don't know how long you should have waited. Are
you too late? You know, if you're late to the
first a quick slant and that's your first read and
you're late for that.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
Now are you waiting for a second window? Now? Are you? Then?

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Because you're not so certain about what your timing was,
when somebody gets immediate pressure, you're not handling this way right.
When they fix that with Caleb Williams and they got
rid of that coach, Thomas Brown came in there and
they just like simplified it and then them and he
knew what his drops were. He went from being his
like production went to being borderline elite for the year

(12:43):
compared to other quarterbacks because he knew what he was
supposed to do. So Ward may have that problem. I
think he's a dynamic player, but if you see him
struggle a lot early on, it's going to be because
suddenly he's going to be expected to do things off
of at the level of timing he can't do, and
then he's just going to look good as a as
kind of a playground, unstructured, off script guy, and he's

(13:07):
going to be more up and down as a scripted
guy when it's not a schemed up play like you know,
a play action throwback or an RPO or some sort
of screen or something where you know there's only one
target and he's doing a lot of things to set
up that one target. But when it's a timing based
three four progression, three step five step drop deal, it

(13:32):
might be a little more inconsistent than it was there.
But I think he can be he can grow into
being a good player. But that's the hurdle to watch.
Sure Sanders yep, you know you watch Shuldar Sanders and
he's probably the safest of the early round quarterbacks. That
are projected to go, and the reason is is that

(13:52):
he's got decent fee three step, five step, seven step drops.
He's certainly one that reads the defense pretty well. Things
that he misses are things that most young players who
are good prospects missed. And he tends to also find
ways to not make the same mistake twice. So he's
good at being able to correct and something that that

(14:12):
the defense the skies and he missed and they try
it again and he's like, nah my fool, So that's good.
He can move around the pocket reasonably well. But he's
not a cam Order Jason or Jackson Milroe type of mover.
You know, he's learned Jackson Jason, Jackson Dart, Yeah, Jackson Dart,
but more thinking about Melville Row Milrose, he's not that dynamic.

(14:36):
He's more of a Geno Smith Baker Mayfield to a
tongue of by Low, a type of mover. Someone that
can make, you know, avoid the first point of pressure,
maybe avoid two points of pressure either in succession or
or you know, if they're both coming from one side
of the field. He can do that, but he's not
going to do things that are so dynamic that you're

(14:59):
gonna consistently see it at a level that you saw
it at Colorado. You know, Baker Mayfield did a lot
of stuff at Texas A and M where in Oklahoma
where you're like, oh, look at him move and scramble
and do all that stuff, and you think he's like
the next Russell Wilson, And then you realize in Cleveland
with a good offensive line that he still wasn't that

(15:22):
great a mover. He's a chain mover who can make
a couple of people miss. That's fine, but he had
to acclimate to that and oftentimes made mistakes because he
didn't understand that maybe the NFL, you know, a three
hundred and twenty pound defensive tackle was quicker than he was.
And I think that Shador may have to make that acclimation.

(15:42):
But from that standpoint, the arm's good enough, the mobility's
good enough, the play reading has potential there. It's just
are you going to get a player in the first
round that you feel like is going to be able
to lead a team when things aren't going well and
do something dynamic like Jason you know, like Jalen Hurts, right,

(16:02):
you know, are you going to be able to have
that now? You're not going to get that. But if
the team's great, can he give you what Matt Ryan
gave you, if you know, with a strong offense, and
get you deep into the playoffs or in a super
Bowl or even close to winning a super Bowl if
your defense doesn't crap out on right, you know, yes,
Shador Sanders could have possibly develop into that. It's just

(16:25):
the question then becomes, do you want that, you want
to take an early first round pick on that, or
do you want to build your defense and then get
a player or a veteran who can offer that to
you that you know is a more known quality quantity. Yep, yep,
So I guess the last one. Jackson Dart Yeah, yeah,
what are your thoughts here?

Speaker 3 (16:43):
I think he's a bit manufactured by the draft media
to try and make it.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
I was wondering if yeah, I was wondering if you
were going to say that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yeah, he's a bit manufactured. But I think that there's
potential there. Maybe it's that they're squinting a little hard
and when you squint hard enough you can kind.

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Of see it.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
Short and low end, intermediate range of the field, very good,
good footwork, quick, someone that you know RPOs, screens, timing,
passing game, in the quick game, ability to like move
around and have a moving pocket and throw on the move.
Think like if he went to the Los Angeles Rams

(17:22):
and he get the SAT behind Garoppolo and Stafford for
a year or two, and you know he would fit
that offense because there's the routes are crossing the middle
of the field. He's able to move around, use that
play action game, benefit that from that run game. But
anything over twenty five yards is scattershot right now, Okay,

(17:44):
And there's not a lot of rhyme or reason because
sometimes it is he moves in the pocket and then
his front foot's too far from his shoulder, and now
his feet are too far apart in and he's not accurate.
Other times his feet are perfect and he's not accurate.
And it's not he's always long, he's always short, or
he's always behind or always ahead. It's different every time, right,

(18:04):
And that's that's a little scary. So I think there's
potential there for him to be a starter, But pumping
him up to this early of a round is you
know how the NFL looks at this, because they have
a thirty eight percent hit rate, and they have a
very old school mentality that is, like, you know, Bill
Pollion was a great GM. Bill Pollion's ability to stay

(18:29):
evolved with the game was not so strong as evidence
with his view of that Lamar Jackson was a running back, right, Okay,
But from people I talked to, they say, probably at
least sixty percent of the NFL still sees it this way.
You know, another forty percent has embraced a very different
point of view, right, But the sixty the other sixty

(18:51):
percent is like, oh, Jalen Hurts not really a quarterback,
you know, you know, we want the big dowie looking
dude with the square job, but like he's kind of
got you know, he if he can move, it's a bonus.
But he can speak at my country club about the
old people wrinkling their nose and Karen's telling them to

(19:11):
get out, then maybe it's a you know, it's a
different story. But and they and and I think a
lot of that is a sub is an unconscious bias,
and that you see with people in corporate America who
experienced the same things. But Dart is kind of the
oh he looks like he could be something good. Then
they're going to pour their own resources into that where

(19:32):
someone may be more qualified, but they they like that
he's you know, It's like I knew someone who didn't
get a job at first because the boss liked the guy,
the English guy who had that accent, and then they
and then they ended up hiring her, and she she
was great, but then she ended up leaving for a
better job, and then they they hired that guy and

(19:56):
he's lame, you know.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
But you know that they the optics were like there.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
You know, I mean, the qualifications all look good on
the bullet points, the school and all that, but when
you looked at experience, you looked at what they actually
had to do, the other person blew the Englishman out
of the water. So it's like Dart's kind of like
that Englishman with a lot of the bullet points, but
maybe how you actually process information, how things that you

(20:24):
can't really teach aren't aren't completely there. And so in
the right system, I think he can be good, kind
of like Jimmy Garoppolo. In the right system, he could
be good enough. But could he get to that next
level or is he gonna need a pair of depends
In the playoffs on fourth and seven when he's got

(20:45):
to do something and the things are going down and
he completely short circuits. And you know that's Jimmy Garoppolo.
He was always that way. So you know, Dart, Yeah, Dart,
We'll see maybe he gets there.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
Okay, sounds good. Well, folks, we are going to take
a real quick break, and when we come back, we're
gonna get into some running back talk and some tight
end talk as well with Matt. Stick with us. We'll
be back in just a bit. All right, We are
back again with Matt Waldman from the Rookie Scouting Portfolio
Matt Waldman RSP dot com. He's on a ton of

(21:23):
social media sites at Matt Waldman search him out. Great
great work. And Matt, as we're moving along with our
conversation here, want to get into the running back position.
It's something we've been talking about, of course, a lot
over the years that you've been coming on this podcast.
Last year when you were on the show, talked about
how running back has been a bit quote devalued over

(21:44):
the years in terms of the NFL draft. But then
we see established players in the league like Saquon Barkley
and Derrick Henry really doing magnificent things on the football
field and are really a key cog within their particular offense.
I mean, we've got in this upcoming draft Ashton Johnty.
He may be one of those very special running backs

(22:05):
of the future. Amarion Hampton and Travian Henderson are also
very good running backs coming out of this draft as well.
Do you see the majority of these running backs falling
to perhaps maybe second round or you know, Day two
of the draft based on where the value of the
running back position is or has the running back drafting

(22:27):
philosophy maybe altered a bit because of these veterans in
Saquon Barkley and Derrick Henry and some others around the
NFL who are doing really good things for their offenses
around the league. What are your thoughts here?

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, I doubt it because I think, Okay, we talked
about last year is that while they're been devalued, what
we're seeing is that there is a shift in how
running backs are being used.

Speaker 3 (22:48):
And what you'll see is that.

Speaker 2 (22:52):
Is that they're devalued from a standpoint of cost because
there's a glut of talent. Yep, Okay, it's it's not
that they're aren't there are certain top talents that when
you match with a team that wants to run the
ball against these defenses spread out, who have been trying
to put a governor over the spread offenses. Because that's

(23:13):
what happened, you have the spread offenses. Chip Kelly came in,
started to spread things out. Then the teams started to
follow suit, and eventually the arms race came to the
point where you had Patrick Mahomes throwing the ball over
Buddy's head and all over the field. And defenses in
college were like, starting, we're experiencing this first, and they
started recruiting players and using them at linebacker who used

(23:34):
to be like safeties and you know, and you have smaller, quicker,
faster defenders who could cover sideline the sideline. But then
defenses in the NFL started getting those types of players
and they decided, we're going to stop the passing game,
at least the vertical passing game. We're gonna play a
lot of umbrella coverages. And so now, which is what

(23:56):
I've been thinking talking about for years, is like once
that happened, you're going to see more teams go, well,
now we can run gap plays again, which is pulling guards,
toss plays, you know, plays where it's set up to
one crease and the and all the resources that you
marshal on the offensive line and then the backfield as
blockers are to hit one crease and you can overpower

(24:17):
these smaller defenders do it very well, exactly they They
did it so well with DeAndre Swift too. I would
tell you needed a compass attached to his hind heart
sometimes to actually find creases between the tackles. But when
you when Jalen Hurts occupies one to three defenders in
the box and you have fewer of them that deal

(24:38):
with you get much more straightforward creases. And Swift is
great in the open field. He's a good He's a
good enough pass catcher between inside the between the tackles
type of runner. He is not Saquon Barkley. I've been
saying since last year on my shows that the Revenge,
the Saquon Barkley Revenge Tour is coming to Philadelphia. Yeah,
like that's you know, And then I was and then

(25:00):
my cohort host was saying, we were talking about Derek
Henry and say, nothing's wrong with Derrick Henry except that
he plays for the Titans.

Speaker 3 (25:08):
There's the speed and the burst is.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
Still there, and we're gonna wish cast him going to Baltimore, right, okay,
And that's what we saw, okay. So you know, when
you have rare talents like that, it's wise to use
them in the way that you can't. The problem is
is that there are a lot of good talents. So
running back is a lot like a Hollywood casting call

(25:31):
where you widen the net and you say, I want
all lead actors between the age of thirty five and
seventy five, right, okay or eighty at this point. So
you can probably have Jack Nicholson probably in there, but
you can still have like Tom Hardy, you know. So
it's like and and Bat, Brad Pitt and whoever in between.

(25:51):
Whatever your flavor and what you're looking for a cucumber batch, you.

Speaker 3 (25:55):
Know all of that. You know, so you can go,
You can go in a wide range of things. And
the NFL knows that.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
So why are they going to spend a first round
or second round pick on someone unless it's a perfect
fit and they think that he's a special player or
a player who can ignite their offense. Like the Lions,
they looked at Swift and said, we got Swift, but
we think that Jamier gibbs Can actually has a compass
between the tackles, and we got we got David Montgomery.

(26:24):
We want to do a one two punch. We already
built our line. It's really strong. Yeah, we're going to
trade Swift away. The Eagles wants a little bit of that. Sure,
good for us, you know, and then they do that
and that works. So this year, I would say Ashton
Gent is probably that guy who has the best chance

(26:45):
of elevating an offense as an early round pick. Okay,
he's got great run stamina. That's what I talk about
a lot in that. You know, when you look at
the great running backs in history, and I would even
say that Leshawn McCoy would qualify in that regard as
one of the as a great running back in his peak,

(27:05):
Lashan McCoy, Jamal Charles, Barry Sanders, La Danian, Tomlinson, you know,
Jim Brown, Walter Payton, Earl Campbell, Marshawn Lynch. I would
put in this category. Okay, Adrian Peterson. They all they're
very different backs, you know, some of them are in
completely different universes. Barry, you would never confuse Barry Sanders

(27:29):
with Jim Brown, right right, you know.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
But what they have in.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
Common is that at the beginning of a play, when
they have to make defenders miss or run through tackles
in the box, the energy that they're able to deliver
to an intensity in which they play is very strong.
And then at the end of a play, fifty yards
downfield and maybe they've covered seventy five of the how

(27:52):
much is they get zagonated to do to work around
a defense. At the end of a play, they still
have more energy to execute similar time, some moves against
defenders who are in pursuit, who look.

Speaker 3 (28:04):
More worn out.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
It's like they're the guys in the late rounds of
a boxing match who are out punching and still have
more energy and have more power than their opponent. And
Ashton Genti has that. He has that run stamina, and
he can do it on his eighteenth carry, his twentieth carry,
He can do it on his eighteenth carry, on his

(28:28):
second run of fifty yards in the game, or his
fourth run of fifty yards in the game, and he's
still shedding guys in ways that you go. He still
has the energy to do that. It's like watching you know,
Marshall Lynch's beast Quake runs against the Saints and against Arizona,
and you go, he doesn't look like he's you know,
blowing by people, but the energy that you see with

(28:51):
them playing, you're like, how's he still doing.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
That at the ten when he was.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Starting at the twenty on the other side of the field.
So Jens has some of that. So I think he's
probably the early round guy. I think people are trying
to put Hampton and Henderson in that range, and somebody
might buy on that, yeah, but I think that there's
a gap, okay, And I'd say Henderson is what people

(29:17):
hope de Andres Swift could be. He is a good
gap runner. He does short circuit on zone runs more
often when it's not unbelievably clean gap, it can be
a dirtier run on gap and he'll hit that crease
and hit it hard. But if there's a lot of
penetration in the backfield, his game short circuits. But you
want him in open space. You're going to try and

(29:37):
get him there and he's going to do great work
in open space and in gap. So if he's running
mostly gap, you've got yourself what people hope De Andre
Swift could become and that's really good.

Speaker 3 (29:51):
Hampton.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Hampton's got power, He's got top end speed. It takes
them a little longer to get the top end speed. He
gets blown up as a pass protector, even though the
people who count how many times he was successful, you know,
that's great. But when he faces real NFL level of competition,
people who actually know how to legitimately use their hands,
legitimately know how to set up a defender when they're

(30:13):
coming down the chuote between the guard and the center
and omar and Hampton drops his head because he thinks
maybe that third eye on the top of his helmet
has twenty fifteen vision, right, you know, he realizes that
there's something covering up that high and the defenders go, oh,
you're just telling me that. You're telling me what you're

(30:35):
doing right now, Let me work around you. Let me
grab your pads and throw you to the ground. Let
me can you like you're a center on a kickoff,
you know, right, you know, I mean they're gonna do
all of that to him if he doesn't fix that.

Speaker 3 (30:47):
So it's not it's not unalterable. He can fix the stuff.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
But he might be a guy that needs a better
fit early on for people to go, oh, he's going
to be good, right, But if you put him in
an off and say you're the man and we expect
you to do all that stuff, they might be looking
for a veteran early on.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
I got you all right?

Speaker 1 (31:06):
Sounds good. Great running back talk here, and these prospects
are going to be interesting to follow in terms of
their journey in the NFL for sure, Matt. You know,
before we get to our next break here, I wanted
to dive into the tight end position with you. And
I'm coming from this, of course as an Eagles fan,
someone who follows this Eagles team, and they may be

(31:27):
looking to draft their tight end of the future due
to the situation with Dallas Goddard. I it's doubtful they're
going to use their first pick of the draft on
a tight end, at least in my opinion. Who knows
how he Roseman and company could surprise me, but they
may be looking at some talent.

Speaker 3 (31:45):
On Day two.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
Perhaps, are there any tight ends that you can really
see making a seamless transition to the NFL that maybe
are Day two prospects? What are your thoughts here?

Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah, if we say seamless, meaning that they need a
year or two due what they can become the absolutely
and I'd say Mason Taylor heads that list. I think
he's I honestly think he's not far off from being
the top tight end on this point. Okay, all right,
you know, and the reason being is that he is
very smooth as a route runner. He can run all

(32:17):
the routes that you'd want him to run. At the
tight end position. He is excellent at the catch point.
He you know, he can work. You know, he has
a strong catch radius in a variety of directions, even
thrown against his brakes. He can win against tight coverage,
he can win against hard hits. He breaks tackles, makes
people miss in the open field. And on top of that,

(32:38):
he actually understands how to punch as a blocker. Yeah,
he understands how to earn position and sustain against defenders
that he's capable of handling physically at his size, which
is six five two fifty one. So you know, if
he gains a little bit more weight you wanted to
do that. I look at him as kind of a
better blocking Mark Andrews. That's what he can develop Intobe.

(33:00):
You could say that's Dallas Goddard, you know, and just
Dallas Goddard just isn't used like Mark and right, it
could very possibly be that. So I would argue that
he's that guy. If you're looking more of a flavor
for you want more of a Sam Laporta type for
your offense, because maybe you're the Eagles and you're thinking,
we're pretty confident in what we have at our offensive line,

(33:21):
so we don't need a block as much blocking skill
on that. Harold Fannon is very much in a lot
of ways athletically a carbon copy of Sam Laporta and
a good pass catcher. So that's not a bad one there.
And then if you're going to look a little bit deeper,
you're looking more for a maybe a bargain version of

(33:43):
Mason Thomas, maybe Mason Taylor.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
Maybe you're looking at.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
Thomas Fadoni of Nebraska. He's six five, two forty three,
but he lost that way for the combine, I think
to run faster, which he did. Yeah, he's but he's
got the acceleration and quickness that it shows up on
tape when he probably played closer to two sixty. So
he's a back, he's a tight end That could be
one of two things, depending on how the coaches want

(34:08):
him to be. They say, look Tom, add that muscle back,
get that game, that weight, We want you in line
a little more.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
You're going to be more of an underneath type of guy.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
Then he could be maybe a you know, middle class
Pat Fryarmouth. Okay, okay, And that's that's pretty good. He
can run after the catch, really good hands. I mean,
this is a good all around back. But if they say,
you know what, we'd rather you were drafting you earlier,
third round, fourth round because we have a plan for
you and we want you to succeed Dallas, but we're

(34:39):
gonna use you more as a receiver of the scene,
things like that, then he won't be Dallas, but he
could be more of a middle class zach Ertz.

Speaker 3 (34:47):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Now, and those are the cops that I gave to
to to Fidonius. So he's probably an interesting guy in
that area of the field.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Pretty sure the Philadelphia Eagles, folks, are going to be
a tight end. When and where remains to be seen,
But great, great information from that here on the tight
end position. We're gonna take another quick break here, folks,
and we will be back with our final segment just
about some under the radar players in this NFL draft.
Matt is going to dive into it with us. Let's

(35:18):
take that break now, we'll be back in just a bit.
All right, We are back again with Matt Waldman from
the Rookie Scouting Portfolio Matt WALDMANARSP dot com and at
matth eh excuse me, at Matt Waldman on various social
media sites. And as we're concluding things here, Matt wanted
to talk about, as we do every year, the under

(35:42):
the radar prospects that we really should be keeping our
eyes on, those diamonds in the rough. You and I
we talk about these gentlemen and draft prospects every year.
Do you have a few players, Matt, that you're gonna
be honing in on that really fit into this under
the radar mold here? What are your thoughts, buddy?

Speaker 3 (36:00):
Sure, there's a lot of them.

Speaker 2 (36:01):
You know, start at quarterback, and I would say that
Jalen Milroe, even though he's been invited to the draft early,
there's possibility he'll probably slide to the second or third round,
right and maybe there's a team that loves him enough
to make him a first round player. Now, if you
ask me, based on how that, I think the NFL
should be looking at quarterbacks. And what that means is
that they should have a better idea of what processing

(36:23):
actually is rather than have a test that doesn't and
may not be and still may need some time. And
I think s DOO will get better at what they do.
But I would say that processing isn't whiteboard and test
taking information. It's really about how quickly and confidently you
react and act on information. Alex Smith had a very

(36:47):
fast processor in terms of seeing what he needed to do,
but he was more like an economist on saying, oh
that's a data point, let me wait for a few
more data points for I actually act on it. And
that was the problem with his career is that he
saw it fast but didn't confidently react to it, whereas
Patrick Mahomes sees it fast and acts instantaneously to it.

(37:11):
Rock Purty sees it fast, instantaneously, reacts to it late
round guy, then you know, or Joe Burrow sees it fast,
instantaneously reacts to it. That's the difference. So you know,
Jalen Nolro has that he has that in his game,
not only does he have it, he can integrate it

(37:31):
into situations where pressure's coming and pushing the pocket into
his lap, and he can make those quiet footed movements
to just keep his eyes downfield and make a small
adjustment and throw the ball accurately while manipulating defenders in
the process of doing it on a second read, not

(37:52):
a first read. You know, you know that tired that
tired former You know that tired former player getting paid
millions of dollars to like commentate on games. Yes, and
I'm not talking about Ross stuck or Ross is great,
you know, Chris Fieldman. But you know some of these
guys who are like doing commercials and like, and you know,

(38:15):
probably aren't studying as hard as they need to anymore.
But they go look at how he drops back during
his drop and looks off the safety to one side
of the field and holds them there and goes to
the other, something that a good high school quarterback does. Right, Okay,
And we're talking about middle linebackers that you're moving while
you're getting while your guard's getting pushed into your lap,

(38:37):
and it's your second or third read that you're deciding
to move that guy, right, And it's very clear you're
manipulating him and then firing a ball on a mesh play,
you know, to the opposite side while that's going on.
Mil Road does that. He is the only quarterback I've
seen do that in this class on a repeated basis.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
Can he does?

Speaker 2 (38:56):
He have some issues with, you know, holding on to
the ball. He's blindsided a little bit. His hands are
bigger than what were measured in the Senior Bowl. Does
he have does he He doesn't have great touch on
certain types of routes like the moon balls. Russell Wilson
throws on cover two or fade routes in the in

(39:16):
the red area. He's got to work on that a
little bit. But he's got the quickest release in this class.
He's got the most compact release I've seen since Dan Marino.
To be honest with you, Wow, he's got good drop
back footwork. He's already he and he is an academic Heisman.
And you know, the Senior Bowl stuff was a little
overrated in terms of the issues where they were He's inaccurate.

(39:40):
He wasn't on the same page with some of his receivers.
Receivers went on the same page with him, So you know,
looking at this overall. Honestly, cam Ward may be the
top quarterback on my board, but it's only because there's
some things that when I just charted and graded based
on charting, I didn't see enough evidence of that I

(40:00):
actually saw on film to give, you know, overall, to
give him the grade I wanted to give him. If
if what I saw on film is like translates better
and it's not just strictly the charting part, he'd be
easily the number one quarterback in this class.

Speaker 3 (40:16):
For me, Wow, I would.

Speaker 2 (40:18):
I'd honestly say, if you're if you're drafting to like
give people a year or two and and and also
look towards upside as a bigger value point. I would
subtract one to two rounds from every player except Jalen
no Road from where they're projected to go, and that's
where they should get drafted. And No Roe would be

(40:38):
the number one quarterback and he'd be taking him in
the second or third round. That's how I see this class. Now,
if we're going to look at him, there's another quarterback
who is not going to get drafted, I bet, and
if he does, it's going to be in the seventh round.
Oka and it's going to be Curtis Rourke of Indiana.
Curtis Rourke is very opposite of jaln Nolroe athletically. You know,
he's a pocket quarterback, but kind of like you know,

(41:02):
a middle class Tom Brady in the sense that he
sees and feels the pocket well, feels pressure well, and
can move efficiently and then throw the ball with accuracy.
And he's got some accuracy downfield and into the opposite
hash and and he's someone that can pick a part
of defense and listen, he tours a cl and at

(41:23):
Miami of Ohio a couple of years ago, and then
when he had and he came back and rehabbed it
just fine. And then he went to Indiana a year
after that for the next the following year after the return,
and he towards a cl in August. Nobody knew it.
Nobody knew it. He led them to a college football

(41:44):
playoff game, and nobody astonishing, Yeah, nobody knew that he
was playing like playing it that way until January. Oh,
by the way, towards a cl in August. This is
the toughest nails kid. And if all he tore was
his acl if it isn't the man thiscuss or other
tendons or ligaments along with it. That's not as big

(42:05):
of a deal. Even if it's a long wherehab, He'll
be as healthy as he ever was, so it won't
be an issue. So, yeah, this is a kid you
sign as a UDFA seventh round pick something like that
and give him a red shirt season. Yeah, and at
the very least you're gonna have a good backup. At
the very least good backup running backs Taj Brooks. I've

(42:25):
talked about him a lot you have in Texas Tech.
I call him Lemonade because he basically mitigates bad losses,
turns lemons into lemonade. Very smart, efficient runner with speed, quickness,
mostly quickness, and acceleration short area speed.

Speaker 3 (42:41):
Very good.

Speaker 2 (42:43):
He's someone that you can make a be back. He
can be a third down back because he's a good blocker,
he's a good pass catcher, and he's got more speed
than you would expect, and he can run through you
or run over you. He could be in every down
back that you get in the sixth or seventh round.
Because a lot of these running here, I would bet
you're gonna see them go from the fourth round. Nine.

(43:04):
He may get one or two guys in the first
three rounds, maybe three or four in the first rounds
if they're a little over zealous, and then you're gonna
get a lot of guys in the fifth and sixth round.
There's gonna be two or three teams that probably pick
two guys after the fourth round, and you're gonna see
the one guy and go, oh, I'm excited, and then
they picked someone else. It's gonna be like the Jamal

(43:24):
Williams Aaron Jones fifth and sixth round for the Packers
years ago. But yeah, TOAJ Brooks is a good one
from that sentine. Rishard Smith, if you're looking for a
scat back, used to be wide receiver at Miami, then
played running back at SNU for one year, and you know,
it's kind of like Tyrone Tracy but there, but they

(43:45):
didn't have to move him from wide receiver. He's like
he was a legitimately okay college wide receiver, wherest Tyrone
Tracy was a special teamer who was like not so good.
He was he really fixed, he really worked hard and
also showed a flair for running back. Brishard Smith does too,
but he's more of a scat back than who's great

(44:07):
and open space, but more balance than you would expect
for between the tackles. Guy running wide receiver. You know,
there's a lot more running backs. I could add to
that much, but those are two wide receiver. Andrew Armstrong
at Arkansas, the six four to two hundred pound guy
who has great length, really uses it well in the
vertical game. Kind of a Hikeen Knicks type of player.

(44:29):
Not an inordinately fast, but very quick so you can
get on top of you early, and then uses size
to maintain or earn the late separation. Tracks the ball fantastically,
not just vertically at the boundary, but also running dig routes, comebacks, pearls,
and he runs good routes. Man the man. So this

(44:49):
is a guy who you know from that standpoint, and
Armstrong to me, should be a late round player. That's
surprising to me that he didn't get an invited anywhere,
but he had his brother suffered a you know, died
like a week after he declared his brother was shot
by police. He had mental health issues and it was

(45:12):
and the police had successfully gotten him to a hospital
a couple of times in the past. This time he
was harmed and it turned into a tragic fatality. So
this was probably just before he would accept any invitations anywhere.
I doubt he's probably had to attend a family manage.
So he's an under the radar guy. I think Isaiah

(45:34):
and Naor of Nebraska. He may be one of the
true X receivers in this class that doesn't have many.
He's six four two eighteen runs a four four forty.
He played at Wyoming and lit it up early on.
Then he got recruited by Jerry Sarkisian at Texas and
Sarkisian was basically saying this guy and Xavier Worthy, this

(45:56):
is my my one two punch and it's going to
be great. And then Narra towards a cl and then
he was just getting back into the swing of things
at Nebraska, and so he was even contemplating staying in the
next three year. But he had a good combine. He
catches the ball really well, and he's a pretty good
route runner on his own merit. So the last one

(46:17):
I'll say is Jackson Hawes Georgia Tech tight end okay
out of Yale by Georgia back best blocker in this class. Now,
whether he can be a pass catcher that I would
probably would have wanted to work this kid out if
I had that kind of resources and see where his
growth potential is as a receiver. I think he can

(46:40):
be competent in the short range of the field. But
if you're looking for maybe someone to be a six
offensive lineman for the Eagles and then hope that he
can be a Tucker Craft type who can get fed
into the flats and then rumble through people, I think
Jackson Hawes can be a nice option folks.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Again, he's Matt Waldman from the Rookiees Outing Portfolio Matt
Waldman ARSP dot com. Buddy, it was great talking to you.
It was fantastic talking to you as always, and I'm
hoping that you can join us at some point down
the road. We'll talk more prospects, maybe before fantasy football
gets into you know, before we get into that season too,

(47:21):
because you also do a lot of great fantasy football
work as well.

Speaker 2 (47:24):
Sure you can find me at Footballguys dot com. I'm
been a senior staff writer there since two thousand and nine.
So the RSP is really kind of like what I
do is I give you a pre draft in post
draft The pre draft is, you know, a probably one
of the most in depth analysis you'll find in the
public on quarterback, running back, wide receiver, and tight end.
It's over twelve hundred pages this year. It's all bookmarked

(47:46):
on PDF form, so you choose your own adventure.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
You don't have to read it straight through. So I
know people who.

Speaker 2 (47:51):
Religiously like to take off their full two days from
work just so that they can read it and have fun.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
I think back in twenty twenty, I read the whole
thing and it took me. It took me a while,
and since then I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm like,
how does Matt do this?

Speaker 3 (48:08):
My gosh, But it's one of the yes. This and
this and Dane.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Bruglers of the Beast are, according to recruiters, the two
most purchased guides by NFL people who visit them regularly
to talk about players and study, evaluate and talk with players.
So you get that, you get a post draft that's
much more fantasy oriented. And that's where I talk about
fit as well, like where they fit, what they do

(48:33):
in the offense. So like I may have Marvin Harrison,
I had Marvin Harrison my number two receiver, last year
pre draft with Molik Neighbors over him by a good margin,
and then Ladd mcconkee when the draft was over. I
looked at that's fit and said, Lad mcconkee is going
to be a top fifteen overall fantasy producer and his

(48:53):
position because of the fit and Marvin Harrison, I don't
think is going to even be a top thirty six player,
or he'll be in that range, like the low end
of that range. And that's exactly what happened.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
He was right.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
Folks like you, you know, so I give you kind
of both ways of analyzing information. You can find me
directly to buy it at Mattwoalman dot com, but you
can go to mattwalmanarsb dot com. You see all the
free work and free scouting reports that I put out
there and where my podcasts are and all that. So
thanks again for letting me share that, Jeff, And it's
always a pleasure to be able to you.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Got it, buddy, And folks, really quick, if you want
to follow the Philadelphia Sports Table podcast show on various
social media sites, here is where we are Instagram, of course,
we are on Twitter, slash x. I'm over on TikTok
our Facebook page. We're on threads and Blue Sky as well.
Eric and I are there. We're going to have Eric
on the show this week, and we've got a lot

(49:47):
of Phillies talk that we're going to be getting into
Matt again, buddy, Thank you so much for taking the time.
Always great to talk to you, my friend. Keep doing
great work, my friend.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
I appreciate it. Jeff, you too, A right, Bam.

Speaker 1 (50:01):
That was fantastic, man. I wish I could have you
on every week, Matt, you on every week, my gosh.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
Yes, I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
That was great. Again, I seriously, I very much appreciate
you taking the time. I know your time is valuable,
especially during the course of this time of year, especially,
so keep up the great work, man.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
Thank you so very much, and thank you keep hitting
me up all right. I always enjoyed doing this.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
What a great discussion with Matt Gosh. I love having
him on every single year right before the draft to
talk about the talent that we're going to be seeing
in the NFL in the very near future. That's gonna
do it for us, folks. We hope that you have
enjoyed this PST special. Please feel free to share it
with any football enthusiasts. If there's anyone in your network,

(50:44):
in your group of friends, your family that love football,
love the NFL Draft, share this podcast episode with them.
We think they're really going to enjoy it. So with
that being said, everybody, Happy Draft time, take care, We'll
catch you next time.