Martha Ivers: A Scene Missing Noir Deep Dive w/ Gabriel Hardman & Ian Brill

On this edition of Scene Missing,I'm joined by filmmaker/artist Gabriel Hardman and writer/critic Ian Brill for a sharp, no-nonsense look at the 1946 noir classic The Strange Love of Martha Ivers. 

We dig into the film’s ruthless psychology, its tangled relationships, and how the performances from Barbara Stanwyck, Van Heflin, a young Kirk Douglas, and Lizabeth Scott still punch hard today.

 Hardman breaks down the visual language and shadow work that make the film so uniquely tense, while Brill dives into the screenplay’s moral ambiguity and the twisted power dynamics at its core.
 
From the opening “accident” that sets everything in motion to the film’s bleak, pressure-cooker finale, this is a deep, character-driven postmortem of a noir that doesn’t get enough modern attention. Perfect for fans of classic Hollywood, noir obsessives, and anyone who loves watching a great movie picked apart by smart people who know how the machine works.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, welcome back time again for Ward Balloon, the
comic conversation show John Stuntress. Here we got a scene
missing tonight and it's the strange love of Martha ivers Wat.
It is an amazing noir although Gabe and I discussed
it and Gabe kind of thinks it's really a melodrama
disguised as a noir. But this is a great forties movie.

(00:22):
It's Kirk Douglas's very first movie, and it's the most
left field performance you'll see from Kirk Douglas. He is
not a tough guy. He is the milk toast. He's
the weakling in this thing. Van Heflin is a very
effective tough guy. Barbara Stanwick is a scary, ball busting
powerhouse of a woman that has both of these men
under her thumb in that classic noir sense. And as

(00:45):
I said, if you know w Indemnity and how great
she is in that and twisting Fred McMurray into causing murder,
this is the b side and just as maniacal and manipulative.
A great, great movie. It's all over the place on
YouTube and I highly recommend it. But I also wanted
to point out that Gabe and I in our discussion

(01:06):
of Barbara Stanwick. She had a very infamous husbandnamed Frank Fay,
and you'll hear Gabe kind of it's like, well, she
didn't have the career. He didn't have the career that
Barbara Stanwick did. Now, that is absolutely one hundred percent
true when it comes to movies. However, in the pre
you know, in the twenties, when vaudeville was still a huge,
huge thing, he was one of the top stars, and

(01:28):
his movie career did not turn out great stan Wicks did.
But anyway, Gabe and I really got hot for a second.
You might find that entertaining. I don't have a problem
leaving it in. Gabe doesn't have a problem leaving it in.
You can also see it on the video. And I
just felt Gabe was bulldozing and I'm like, wait, let
me just let me get my pointed, and that's all
I was trying to do. But it escalated for a moment,

(01:51):
and immediately we apologized. So that's a warning in case
you are triggered by any sort of tough talk. When
mommy and daddy are arguing it's not a big deal
with you, what is a big deal is the Strange
Love of Martha Ivers. Cannot recommend this movie enough. Gabe
is one who suggested that I'm truly glad he did,
and I think you'll enjoy this discussion. It's a very
interesting film, That's why we're talking about it on this

(02:14):
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(02:35):
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(02:56):
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(03:17):
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(03:39):
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word Balloon, thank you for your support. League of Word
Balloon listeners. Welcome back, everybody. It's time again for another

(04:02):
scene missing here on the Word Balloon Network, where we
talk about movies that maybe have flown under your radar.
We're here to enlighten you with some great classics. And man,
we got a good one tonight. And it's good to
see Gabe Hardman. It's good to see Ian brill Ian.
Just so you know, your microphone is muted, all right,
very good. Want to make sure we're helping each other

(04:22):
with our muted microphones. Everyone's technical difficulties, but man, Martha Ivers.
What strange love of Martha Ivers. It is all over
the place on YouTube everybody.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
So, and it's on Prime as well.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Yeah. I was in the public domain, so it's like
it's a lot of places and pretty easy to access.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yep. Yeah, I was telling you off the air, Gabe,
I forgot how great this movie is. I literally probably
haven't seen it in over thirty years, yeah, because it's
like yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever, And when you suggest it,
I'm like, oh, yeah, I haven't seen that forever. So yeah,
this was a good call.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Cool cool. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
I actually, I mean I hadn't seen it for a
few years, but more recently than thirty years. But but
I you know, picked up a Blu ray recently and
I just watched it. I had watched it a couple
of days ago, and and the the movie really resonated
for me in a different way this time in some.

Speaker 2 (05:14):
Ways, and like you know, I.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
I mean, if we want to, we should probably talk
about what it's about and everything before we get into that.
But the you know, it's a you know, it's a
nineteen forty six just after the war, you know, just
at the kind of the beginning of the noir cycle.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
It's not really a noir. It's more like a melodrama,
you know.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
But you know, but you know, it's it's it's in
the area and nobody knows what a noir is anyway.

Speaker 1 (05:39):
Is it a style, is it a form? Whatever?

Speaker 3 (05:42):
So but you know, Lewis Milestone directed it, Barbara Stanwick,
you know, Elizabeth Scott van Heflin, and you know Kirk
Douglas's first movie. And it's it's like, you know, it's
it's like a two hour movie. It's like longer than

(06:03):
a lot of movies in this in in this uh form.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
And it's it has uh.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
Like an opening sequence in the past and uh, you know,
with with kids and a terrible aunt and and you
murder and uh, you know, children committing murder and uh
like uh, and then you know, flashes forward to the
present where where Van Heflin has come back into town
after uh, after being away since this incident as a child,

(06:30):
and and kind of gets pulled into the you know,
to to what his life you know what what you
know what the those the life of those people are
now like the you know, Barbara Stanwyck has grown up
and she's uh, she kind of runs the she sort
of secretly runs the town like her uh, you know,
Kirk Douglas is are kind of you know, weak.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Husband who who's who's you.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
Know, an alcoholic and she kind of pushes him around.
And but there's something sparks between you know, her her
old flame, Van Heflin and her and you know, and
and also Elizabeth Scott is is another element in this
but uh, and it's a big kind of you know,
it's shaggy in some ways. Right, there's a lot of

(07:15):
elements going on, but you know, but but actually I've
really enjoyed.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
This movie though it's a I think it's a great movie.
And honestly, this and uh and now I'm blanking the
Shelley Winners movie. We did h Night of the Hunter,
Night of the Hunter. Yeah. I want to spend just
a second on the kids, because they opened the movie
and it's, uh, it's Darryl Hicks. It's yeah, it's Dobie.

(07:40):
It's Tobie Gillis's young let me get young Sam up here,
Toby Gillis's older brother. Yeah right, Darryl Hickman, Daryl Hickman's
always good man and he doesn't get the cred that
Freddie Bartholomew or Rick Mickey Rooney or Jackie Cooper did.
I think he falster the cracks a lot of times.
And I'm glad that he has done as much on

(08:02):
Turner talking about his films because he was really great.
And I don't I forget what the kid's name is
that played young Martha. Oh yeah, I don't have that character,
but she was really great, great too. Yeah. And and
and Toast Walter as well, moltost Kirk Douglas. Yeah no.

Speaker 3 (08:19):
And in the prologue Judith Anderson, uh you know, uh like, uh,
who's you know, if you know Hitchcock for Rebecca, she's
miss Danvers. Uh you know, uh, she's in Pravenger's Laura
and she Because it's this show, we have to mention
she's in Star Trek three, uh the search for spot
playing like the vulcan elder lady.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yes, one of the one who unscrambles.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
McCoy, And exactly exactly that was like Leonard McCall, I
mean Jesus Christ.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
Leonard nimoy always.

Speaker 3 (08:50):
Uh like told the story about how the actress that
they had cast I think in the motion picture was
so bad that that when he casts somebody for this
part and uh star Directory, he wanted like a great
actor for it, so we got Judi Anderson, which I
mean she was a great actress. She did like you know,
she has this kind of fancy air about her, but
she's in reality Australian and uh I realized, sorry but

(09:14):
you know, but like it's not she was just born.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
She's just born with that scowl on her. Because I'm
sorry that I didn't grab a screencap of her, because
she is so great. You know, this is like weird,
like if if if I put it in Citizen Kane
terms for people missus ivors who were introduced to Judith
Anderson's character, she was like she's kind of the quiet

(09:39):
power and very very cloice. She's just a wealthy woman yeah,
and uh, and Walter's father wants to get close to her,
and Walter's gonna tutor Martha when she's a kid and
help her out and everything, and you know really you know, hey,
and because of that, wouldn't it be great to send
Walter to Harvard?

Speaker 4 (09:56):
You know?

Speaker 1 (09:56):
So he's angling, everybody's angling in this thing, and and
so uh, you know, then we get this accident, this
murder that is being I mean, you know.

Speaker 4 (10:07):
We can spoils. It's the most sympathetic murder because she
was killing a cat.

Speaker 3 (10:13):
Yes, like I mean, everybody wants her to die, right,
Like she's she's threatening children and beating a cat.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Right, he's just you know, you.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Know, and poor and poor young Martha wants to run
away with young Sam get out of this situation. I mean,
she is at wits end, and one of the little
tenuous things that's keeping her ship together is this little cat.
And yeah, Judith Anderson, who's afraid of cats and everything,
just tried to and.

Speaker 3 (10:44):
The moment that's like a fucking Spielberg moment or something
where like she grabs the the girl grabs the stick
that he's beating the car, and like, you know, the
poker whatever it was.

Speaker 1 (10:56):
Yeah, and so now complacent young Walter, who's witnesses this,
and Walter's dad are like, all right, yeah sure she
uh a burglar came in.

Speaker 4 (11:07):
Yeah, a big man just came in and it just
went away, Yes, as quick as he came, right, just
like that.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
And then and crucially though, she the kid, the kid
version of Stanwick, the girl assumes that the kid version
of Van Heflin saw this and knew what happened, right, Like,
this is a big plot.

Speaker 1 (11:27):
Point later on. Right, but he runs away, he.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
Had already taken off. He didn't he didn't know anything
about it.

Speaker 1 (11:32):
Right, So and then you know, so but Walter corroborates
her story Young Walter, and Walter's father will as well.
And then we jumped twenty years to Ivyville.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
Yeah whatever, ivy Town, No, Iverst Town is where. But
but I love it because it's like it's it's citizen
came in a weird way that like if if mister
Thatcher had you know, he had stayed under mister Thatcher's thumb, right.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
And was by mister Thatcher rather than you know, hate
him from day one and just scowled at him, right, And.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
So van Hafflin, who I've always really liked, right, Like
I've always been a big fan fan, right and uh,
he you know, he's he's from Shane three ten, the
original three ten to Yuma. But like, but my favorite,
my favorite heflin part apart from this is in Joseph
los Is The Prowler. It's another uh noir movie that's
totally worth checking out. It used to be very unavailable,

(12:37):
but now it's pretty it's very available, So yeah, track
that down. But the missing absolutely, But like he uh
so his you know when you were were we're going
into town with him, uh you know when we cut
to the you know, the twenty years later and there's
a great moment where he's he's driving along in his

(12:57):
uh in his car. He has he's given a you know,
on Jelapie, he's given a sailor a ride. And the
sailor is played by Blake Edwards. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah,
the director Blake Edwards, like later director Blake Edwards you know,
ended up playing a lot of like sailors and stuff
like that, and uh, you know and like military guys

(13:17):
and little parts and stuff.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (13:19):
But and he you know when the when uh Heflin
comes into town, he sees he he doesn't even know
he didn't even realize that he's driving into the town
where he grew up, right, and until he passes the
sign and then like you know, crane's his neck to
look at the sign and the camera does that. It's
a process shot, but like the camera does this thing

(13:41):
where it's sort of three quarter behind him and it
moves around to reveal a poll in the foreground that
he runs directly into. Right, But it's not like a catastrophe.
It's just the car breaks down, so he's stuck in
town and uh, and like heflin at this point. This
is his first movie after serving in World War Two. Right,
he had had a kind of minor career before the

(14:03):
war and then went off served in the army and
then came back, and this is like his first movie back. Uh,
he's you know, he's not so much. He isn't a
huge star the way Stanwick is.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
You know, had he already won the Oscar in his
supporting role for was it Johnny Eager?

Speaker 2 (14:21):
I'm you know that maybe, but I mean he wasn't like.

Speaker 1 (14:25):
No, don't get me wrong, that was a supporting role. Yeah, yeah,
it's full metal halfway.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
Yeah, and he but like you know, uh like actually
I don't know, maybe they got paid something comfortable. I'm
not sure, but I know that Stanwick got like one
hundred thousand dollars for this and uh and like Elizabeth
Scott got seven and you know, you know, Kirk Douglass
got like, you know, five thousand dollars or something. Right,
Like they're dramatic at different places, you know.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Yeah. But also Elizabeth Scott's relationship with how Wats we're
talking about, Yeah, that's personally and I imagine it was
a little easier to give her.

Speaker 3 (15:01):
Well, she was just under contract so he could pay her.
Well that's she was under a personal contract to how
Wall was but you know, we can go to that later.

Speaker 1 (15:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Well, yeah, no, she they were. He was you know,
she was his lover as well. I mean that was like,
you know that that was a huge part of it.
Uh and apparently wasn't so great for her, but the Yeah,
but yeah, so he heflin comes back and comes out
of town.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
He has to get his car repaired.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
Now he's basically stuck in the.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
Town that he grew up in.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
This is the personal part that I was talking about
because I spent two weeks stuck in the town that
I was that I grew up in recently. Uh and
uh it was a lonely, miserable experience. But but the
uh uh you know, but that that feeling of like
he's coming you know, he's coming back here, but like
he asked around, he has no family anymore. He didn't

(15:49):
even know what happened to them. The you know, like
he's not He's come back to the old hometown, but
the only people that he actually knows are you know,
adult Standwick and uh and Kirk Douglas, you know, who
were the kids back then? And uh, you know, and
then meets up with a you know, with with Elizabeth Scott,
who is you know, they go out of their way

(16:12):
for Joseph Breen's sake to say that she like stole
a coat or some ship. But she's a prostitute. Come on,
I mean, like that's.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
What it was. The just got a jail in this
yeah yeah, yeah, So.

Speaker 3 (16:29):
She was like, you know, she and she's uh like
also an outsider character, you know, like uh and it
and in some ways I don't know that her character
weaves that well into the rest of the story. But
I kind of like that too, Like I think that
the dislocation is good, the fact that he's so connected
to those other people you know. But you know, but she,

(16:51):
you know, she just serves a different purpose in the story,
and you know, and lets us like, uh, you know,
see him from a different point of view. They you
would see him through there, you know, those characters.

Speaker 4 (17:02):
But it also establishes one of the really interesting dynamics
at the core of this film is that the two
people who polite society would call like reprobates. Yeah, because
Van Heflin's character is basically a gambler. Yeah, yeah, is
his line of trade?

Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (17:23):
Uh, they you know, they're obviously they would be seen
as outcasts. But Kirk Douglas's character, Walter, is the district attorney,
or it's running for district attorney. He's already I guess
I'm eighty.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
Eating although with no opposition, he's not.

Speaker 1 (17:41):
Is it a re election?

Speaker 4 (17:43):
Is it a relection?

Speaker 1 (17:44):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah, I think it is.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
It is, But it's but he's running out of power
when when time is necessary for him to dig out
backgrounds on everybody. So ye, But but again not really,
because he's cucked by sadly Barbara Stanwick, who is the
real power, the real power behind the thrown And also
she runs the town.

Speaker 4 (18:05):
Yeah, she runs this milling and that's kind of well but.

Speaker 1 (18:08):
Yeah, I mean essentially it's it's pretty obvious that that.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
Is literally named after her her family.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yes, right, right, and that's and she even says, you know,
when my aunt died, there were three thousand people working
for thirty thousand people work for me. The assumption is
the town.

Speaker 3 (18:25):
I mean, she hearned the town into the big you
know deal that it is like from a little you
know something in the twenties and you know, presumably coming
out of the depression and everything.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
But they that they the dynamic is just that they
represent high society or the echelon of society certainly in
that town. But they have this dark secret that they
are being diluted with or has the impurity over them
eating away at them. Whereas Van heflin Elizabeth Scott's character

(18:59):
are seemed more heroic, they seem like they're trying to
do the.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
Scummy people are the ones we sympathize with.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Right society says or that right and the people who
are supposed to be like the legitimate business people and
everything are the sick, crony capitalist pieces of shit that
are you know, uh that that are keeping everybody down.
And that's not you know, that's not just me, you know,
bullshitting about it. I mean, this movie was written by
Robert Ross and like he uh, you know who is

(19:29):
you know, has a kind of checkered legacy. But I
mean he did amazing work he did, you know, not
not his creative work, like in uh personally because he
named names. He was ah, you know, he was a
staunch like he was a member of the Communist Party.
He was you know, like he was somebody who really
believed in you know, uh in those ideals. And when

(19:52):
you know, in forty seven he initially got uh he
called you know and and and didn't and refused the
name name. But like a couple of years or maybe
it was fifty one or something, and then two years later,
you know, after not being able to work, he bellied
up and named fifty seven people, right, and and so
you know it became kind of a pariah for that

(20:12):
in some circles.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
And you know, but.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
Also was incredibly talented and you know, and you know
made some of the great movies, and like, I think
that his you know, his kind of anti capitalist thing
is all over this movie, right, like it's you know there.
I think that that's like a strong interesting theme in it.
Uh And you know, go ahead, no, no, I.

Speaker 4 (20:38):
Was just gonna say the In the meantime, we've learned
one of the Kirk Douglas Walter is an alcoholic. Part
of his guilt is the fact that later on a
few years later, after the aunt was murdered, they basically

(20:59):
pinned the crime on an innocent man. They you know,
they say, like, oh, this guy was guilty. He was
again they said he was a reprobate. Yeah, so he
was probably guilty of something, but they pinned the murder
on him, and he was hanged for it. And then
they have this, uh, this this truly dark secret that.

Speaker 1 (21:18):
Them And clearly it was that win that propelled him
to become district attorney and still respected in town. And
he can't live with himself. And also he's doing all
this through blind devotion to Martha and fear of people.
Well again, he didn't he didn't kill the ant. But

(21:39):
he's a complete you know, I mean, like he has
been pining for Martha since they were children. She ignored
him because she loves Sam. And this was the one
way by being complicit in the alibi to have Martha.
And it's become a Howlow relationship.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Absolutely, yeah, oh, totally totally, I totally uh.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
And again that's why he drinks. And also, man, we
are not used to sing this is this is not
a tough guy, Kirk Duglas. He is so yeah, he's
a fantic and and cunked Frank Actually yeah, at.

Speaker 3 (22:14):
The time, like supposedly when the movie came out, like
some people were like, I don't know, I'm I think
he's gonna get type cast is the weakling, and it's
like this didn't work out that way.

Speaker 4 (22:22):
This is his first movie ever.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah, yes, first movie ever.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
First Yeah, first first TV or no, nothing, Well, there
wasn't TV.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
I mean yeah, there really was.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
I mean he was on the stage, he had been
on radio. Uh you know, but and he had actually
gone to uh you know, he'd studied acting with laurencall
of all people and uh and so like w who
knew how Wallace and and recommended him for this and
I think he came in and originally auditioned for.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
The the.

Speaker 3 (22:58):
You know, the the Dan Hefflin roll. And but I
mean I think it's good. It's he's good in it, though,
I mean he never plays things like this again, but
he actually does a good subtle I mean, he goes
a little over the top at the end, but but
he he gives a really like, not bombastic performance. It's

(23:19):
a pretty interesting performance.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Lots going on behind those glass Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:24):
And he also, I mean as much as I love
Van Hefflin, I do feel like even at this point,
Kirk Douglas is like kind of a star. Like he
he has that you know, like he does.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
That thing you know, no question. Also, I find this
era of Douglas incredibly fascinating. There's a great comedy that
I'd love for us to talk about sometime with him.
And don't get me wrong, I should qualify great actor,
not a great human being. Uh yeah, years but another

(23:55):
great of course. I love Champion two years later, nineteen
forty nine, astic boxing movie. But I really also love
this crazy comedy he made with Lorraine day Leo Duroscher's
ex wife, my dear secretary. It's the two of them
and Keenan Wynn and they are wingmen for each other. Yeah,

(24:15):
and it's one of the best buddy comedies of the
late forties that again flies under the radar and nobody
knows and that and this that it's like, wow, look
at the range of Kirk Douglas and he's more of
a manly man in My Dear Secretary. But really I
love this and yeah, man, he's got he there are
layers there, I mean, but also.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
Also out of the amazing also out of the past,
I mean, which is like his third movie, which he
is straight up like villain, hardcore.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
You know, guy, you know that kind of crazy yeas.

Speaker 3 (24:49):
Yeah, but not but kind of but not you know,
like there's a lot of ways that he could I mean,
not as crazy as like that.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
One Richard woodmarkt where he pushes the lady down the stairs,
but like the but the you know, like the Born
to Kill maybe I can't.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Remember Roadhouse, the one was died in the pano.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
Oh yeah, yeah, right, yeah, that too, you know, but like, uh,
he like he just I don't know. I think he's
a little underrated in some ways, like as an actor,
like uh and I think I mean, yes, terrible human
being in some ways also you know, like I mean,
he's a mixed bag of a person, you know, like
he's there like but uh.

Speaker 1 (25:25):
But brilliant actor man a list absolutely and the range
of No.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
I mean, I'm just saying I think that people underestimate
his range because he played you know, because he ended
up playing movie star parts so much.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
Also, I can't deny every time there were times in
the movie where Joe Flaherty s ctvs. Kirk Douglas came
to mind and uh, and it was so great, like
when when he's just freaked out seeing Van Heflin and
when Stanwick sees Yeah, when they first and he buzzes

(25:59):
his what it's secretary to myself? I hear, I don't
want to be disturbed, and he says exactly what I
was thinking. You know, I'm like, all right, I guess
I do remember this from forty right, right, but yeah,
very I don't know, man, I kept thinking Joe Flairty
at moments.

Speaker 3 (26:15):
No, totally, totally. I've been watching some messy TV lately,
so you know, totally, but the it But there's something
great about how when when they're kids, the stand with
character is utterly sympathetic, right, and you know, and what
she does that's violent or terrible is easy to sympathize with, right,

(26:35):
And in the intervening twenty years, she had just become
somebody else, right, And the idea of being away for
so long and then coming back and finding the you know,
the people you knew, but they aren't really the you know,
they've become something else in the meantime, Like you've had
this image. He literally talks about van Heflin literally talks

(26:57):
about this, having this kind of image of her in
his head, like who she was and everything, and like
finding her to be somebody very different than that. I
think it's really interesting and effective.

Speaker 1 (27:07):
Really, and also the way he feels about Walter, yeah,
oh yeah, the milk shop and everything, and then he
finds out, oh no, no, no, this is a very powerful
milk shop that can still mess with me.

Speaker 3 (27:20):
Call in the you know, the the yeah, the good
squad to beat the shit out of him and leave
him on the edge of town, you know. And there's
a great moment in this, a great movie moment where
like they beat the shit out of him, they throw
him over a wall or whatever.

Speaker 2 (27:33):
He climbs up, you know, and.

Speaker 3 (27:35):
Like he has like the private detective badge or whatever,
and he climbs up and he like looks at the
sign that's like, you know, Iverstown this way or whatever,
and he just turns and walks straight back to Iverstown
like fuck you, I'm coming back.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
You know. I don't know if your research found this,
but I find it interesting potential casting. And again I
thought Heflin was amazing. I heard John Hodiak was considered
for the Hefflin role, and I think it would have
been an interesting choice.

Speaker 3 (28:02):
I think it's interesting, but I don't think he's I like,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
I like Heflin a lot in this I like a.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
Lot too, but I could see in a very different way. Yeah,
could have been effective in the role.

Speaker 3 (28:12):
I think so, But I think he's a little more like,
you know, uh like I I feel like he's a
little more straight, you know, like he's a little bit
more like upright than Heflin is. And I feel the
you know, the seediness in Halflin. You know that I
don't think I would get out of Hodiac.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
See and to me, Hodiac's eyes can show that kind.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Of ugly and the role, you know, I Heflin is
sympathetic while he's.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
Being and I agree with that. No, no, you know,
but but no, this is honestly, I think it's might
be one of my favorite half fun roles hands down.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
Oh yeah, oh I think it is.

Speaker 3 (28:49):
I mean it's great, like it's uh, and often he
would end up playing like kind of a weakling character
like he you know or you know, or he's not
that in Shane exactly, but he but he is the one,
you know, the kind of support you know, and well and.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Even later in it, you know, my first time seeing him.
And I'll confess this because that's how old I am
as a as a five year old child, I remember
my parents taking me to airport seeing Van Hefflin as
the mad bomber. Oh yeah, right, his uh sweating his balls.

Speaker 3 (29:22):
Sure, yeah, I'm well, I can't say that I'm a
fan of the airport movies, but I've watched I'm enthusiastic
about every airport movie. I mean, the first one is
a more legitimate movie, but like, I'm on board, including
the one about the concord ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
I just didn't know they became cartoons, but no, I
just I never really considered because that was my first impression. Yeah,
and then after that, you know, he did the movie
adaptation of patterns the Rod Serling.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
Oh yeah, that's right.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, we covered of course on Fennis and we mentioned
Heflin's version. But yeah, the again, that guy then isn't
the fourth right hero that he is in in this
movie and everything. And I think he's a hero.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
But the guy who's he's a gambler, he's a you
know whatever. Yeah, like the apparently Milestone wanted him to
have this kind of tick of f lipping a coin
or running the coin through it thinks or whatever, and
the and like stan Wick, who was a bigger star
and didn't give a fuck about Van Heflin, was like,
you're not fucking doing You're not upstaging me, Like you're

(30:29):
not doing your little coin thing in scenes with me.
Like as soon as you pull out that coin, I'm
going to start adjusting my garter on camera, right like
you know. So like you know, she was tough, you know,
and you know she was a conservative lady and she's
very tough.

Speaker 1 (30:45):
And but that recent guy maybe it's been ten years
actually whenever that biography came out on Stanwick, it's fantastic.
I can't recommend it.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
I've not read it, so yeah, I've only heard good
things about it though.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
No she was and yeah, no she was. She was
a power till the end of her life. I mean,
my god, Oh yeah, Sally twenty years after this Thornbird's
ten years after that.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, and she's thirty eight in this movie, like she
had already been like Babyface is fifteen years before this, yeah, right, like.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
Meet John does about twelve or fifteen years.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
Yeah, yeah, you know, a serious career she I mean,
what was.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
The guy Frank Fay is not his name?

Speaker 3 (31:30):
Like the her husband that her horrible husband who like
who was the you know, like he was like alcoholic
and you beat her up and apparently up the but
like that they came out to Hollywood together for with
the idea that he'd become like a movie star, and
his his career went nowhere.

Speaker 2 (31:49):
And you know, did I mean.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
Marborough?

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Oh come on, relative to Barbara Stanwick.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
I understand gave, but he was not nickel and dime.

Speaker 2 (31:59):
No, no, it was needing on.

Speaker 1 (32:02):
Let me talk jab yelling.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
I don't John, then you aren't yell at me tonight.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Okay, Well don't yell at me, man, let me do
on me get my point across. That's all I'm saying, buddy,
I'm not yelling. Okay, just just continue, don't well, I'm
just yelling to say, hold on, I'm not done. Let
me explain because I have a guy I have a
debate regarding Frank Fay. That's all going. You're absolutely right,
he wasn't he She became a much bigger star, but
he wants a big deal in the twenties and thirties
until everybody found out that he was an asshole. And

(32:29):
he was a very big vaudeville guy when vaudeville was
still a big thing. That's all.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
I'm not in any way suggesting he didn't have a
big career beforehand. I'm saying his movie career didn't really
go anywhere compared to hers.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
But there was a career beyond the movie period.

Speaker 4 (32:42):
That's all.

Speaker 3 (32:43):
Yes, yes, of course, but he was also no, no,
I'm not things are not I'm just I apologize for yelling.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
It's you, I'm in it. Things aren't great right now,
I know, but like the.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
But I'm just like, you know, he but he was
the guy who, like you know, his style influenced Jack
Benny and like he you know, he's one of those
you know, one of those. He absolutely had a big
career before that. He was a monalogist in the same
way Bob Hope was and Will Rogers. But again then delivery,
that kind of halting delivery what you know, the the
and pausing and all that, you know.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
But he but he was he didn't he seriously didn't
he support the the the when the Nazis came to
New York and had their big.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
Oh the Maison Square Garden.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
Yes, I believe he was an advocate of that.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
I don't know, that might be. I don't that sounds
really I don't I don't you.

Speaker 1 (33:38):
Know, so yeah, man, And that's what I'm saying. It's like, no,
he wasn't, just you know, like you know, yeah whatever, And.

Speaker 3 (33:44):
No, no, no, I didn't.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
I didn't mean it that way. I didn't mean it
that way.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
Her up because he was a big, big enough field
to bring up the according to Milton Burley's friends, could
be counted on the missing arm of a one armed man.

Speaker 1 (33:57):
Is uh. There was that joke about who's got the biggest,
the biggest dick in Hollywood and it was Robert Stanwy
because of him, Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
Yeah, but uh but yeah, no, I mean, yeah, and
she obviously had an amazing career, got you, but also
Elizabeth Scott. So like, you know, Stanwick is thirty eight
at this point, Elizabeth Scott is twenty three or something.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
This is one you know, and.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Sorry that hold on, are we still here? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
hold on, hold on, yes, sorry North So I hit,
I hit the wrong thing. I was gonna bring up
the uh uh, the photo of Elizabeth Scott because honestly,
my favorite film Fatelle. Please go on about Elizabeth Scott.

Speaker 3 (34:41):
I love I you know, she's an interesting actor who,
like everybody kind of thought of as a kind of
you know, competition for Lauren McCall and you know, uh,
and she has that kind of look to her. But
there's something kind of like, you know, she always feels
a little damage and a little fragile or something, you know,
I mean like and uh, you know, and like there's

(35:02):
something weirdly vulnerable about her that I've always liked. I mean,
I particularly like her in you know, in a movie
that nobody used to think about, but like is more
popular now that the Film Noir Foundation.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Restored it too late for Tears, which.

Speaker 3 (35:16):
Is it's a public domain movie, so it's easy to see,
although I highly recommend seeking out the version that the
Noir Foundation restored because it's it's a good movie Dan
Durier and uh, it's it's like a kind of you know,
low Budgeon or it's actually that was directed by Byron Haskin.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
There's a little Byron Haskin about this movie as well.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
Yeah, that there was a strike during the production of
this movie. There was an aazzi strike the labor union
and uh, the and then and like Lewis Milestone was,
he was always very pro pro labor and pro union
and he uh and he walked like he walked in

(36:00):
sympathy with uh with the the strikers. And Byron Haskin
came in and directed a couple of days of this movie.

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Byron Haskin.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
Uh, we covered back in the first podcast series that
we did about The Outer Limits because he was a
director of that and then but he was a guy
who had been a special effects director and all this
sort of stuff throughout the throughout his career.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
No go ahead, No, I was just gonna say, so
we shouldn't give Millstone credit.

Speaker 3 (36:27):
No, No, this he just for a couple of days,
like it was.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, I mean it was.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
It wasn't like you know.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
He you know uh uh you know he milestone Millstone.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
I don't know how you say, but like he uh no, he.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
Directed the movie.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
He definitely drives well.

Speaker 1 (36:41):
I was just wondering if there were any key moments that,
you know.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
I think we don't know. I mean I didn't, I
didn't get any.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
I mean, like, I also listened to the commentary that
Alan Roady did for on the disc. Uh and uh,
he's a film historian guy. He done was a lot
into our stuff and we I always see him at
events and stuff and like, and he didn't he didn't
have any information on that. So I assume that we
just don't know. It was only for a couple of
days or day or two. But I just thought it

(37:09):
was funny that brought in this a guy that we've
been talking about forever. But I also really recommend Andre
de Toaf's Pitfall with with Elizabeth Scott. Uh and oh yeah,
well what's his name? Uh, the song and dance man
who became their guy dick. Uh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
I My first exposure to Elizabeth Scott was the Martin
and Lewis Haunted House movie Scared.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Still Okay, yeah, I didn't even know the.

Speaker 1 (37:37):
Stress Dorothy Malone's at the beginning of the movie. Yeah,
but then Elizabeth Scott and everything, and yeah, and also
I saw her and maybe we talked about this either
just casually or on the show Burke Slaw, the Aaron
Spelling produced show that Jean Barry was the millionaire millionaire
police captain. Yes, in one in one of his uh

(37:59):
you know, typical episodes where there's a ton of guest stars.
It's like, ten years after her movie career, Elizabeth Scott
shows up, Oh interesting as one of the prospects and
every or somebody with information. And again, I mean I
I do want to talk about the Hal Wallace thing
just because oh we should. Yeah, absolutely, it's sad and
and yeah, because I honestly think she could have grown

(38:20):
to be a bigger actor. But I'm sure that Hal
kept her under wraps and didn't let her work. Yeah,
like we could have.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
I think that that's true.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
I mean, it seemed like maybe she was a little
disillusioned with movies as well. I mean the you know,
and I'm sure he had a lot to do with
that and the but like she apparently had a modeling
career before and she had money and like it wasn't
like she absolutely had.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
To work in order to survive.

Speaker 2 (38:45):
So, you know, I mean, I guess that she was
okay with stepping away from it, but.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (38:51):
I don't really know.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
There's a there's a long YouTube interview with her or
used to be. Oh I haven't checked, and I have
actually prior to watching this again. But yeah, so I
you know, there's there's I don't think she ever released
it on an autobiography, and I don't know how much.
I've never read Eddie Muller's you know, maybe.

Speaker 3 (39:13):
But there's another thing about her where where like she
in Confidential magazine they ran a story about her saying
that outing her as a lesbian.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
And I was wondering that as well.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
Yeah, but I don't really know what the truth of
that is, you know, I mean like that, I don't
know if that's like a real thing or a thing
that they, you know, were just making up, or somebody
planted it against her, you know, I mean, which all
of those things are possible, and I don't really.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
And with that in mind, did they maybe was Wallace
maybe shielding her to perpetuate I don't.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
Probably I don't know, but they were. They were definitely
like involved. I mean they were definitely like romantically involved.
So who knows. You know, people are complicated though, so
who knows. Sure, But yeah, no, I mean, like, well
the how Wallace of it all though, like he you know,
he was a big producer in a certain way, like
he was at Warner Brothers and but you know, he's

(40:07):
a strong producer and didn't get along with Jack Warner
and uh you know, but you know, he produced fucking
Cosa Blanca and the multice Falcon and stuff right like
and then when he got to the point where he
you know, where he was kind of he just couldn't
like he was too big to deal with Jack Warner anymore.
Like he broke away became an independent producer and this

(40:29):
was set up at Paramount. But like, you know, but
he was one of those early you know, like Walter
Wanger and those other people, yeah or whatever, you know,
who were independent producers who you know, like had deals
at studios and stuff to make things.

Speaker 1 (40:40):
But he had I mean beyond this and his association
with Paramount, all the Martin and Lewis movies in Paramount
movies and he was responsible for there being the producer
of you know, their entire I believe, even starting with
My Friend Derma, where they're just supporting actors right right, yes, yeah,
it's on a radio sitcom. That's some Martin and Lewis. Yeah,
exploded and for ten years, you know, they were a

(41:02):
big deal and making a shit ton of money for
how Wallace.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
Yeah, But apparently Wallace would also like stand up to
the to Breen and the Hayes office and like, you know,
push through things. As an independent he could. He kind
of had more Laddine in some ways, had more latitude,
like you know, ignore you know things, and like although
supposedly Breen after like asking for lots of changes and

(41:27):
being too you know, asking for the change that she
not in any way seemed like a prostitute asking for
a bunch of stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
He like, he ended up apparently liking the movie.

Speaker 3 (41:37):
And telling you know, and telling Wallace you know that
he really enjoyed it, which is funny because it's like
you wouldn't you'd think this guy would just be such
a stick in the mud, but like, and this movie
has a bunch of stuff in it that you that
you know, they're getting away with, you know, like there's
there's there certainly suggested things in it that.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Well, I honestly I'm looking this up because I want
to know with how Wallace was. He was he was
the producer of artists and models, Oh yer Lewis film.
I just actually like, yeah, yeah, tash And directed it,
and that movie is pretty racy for nineteen fifty five.
And I mean, that's what I was going to say,
is that how Wallas is the kind of guy that
I think he did, like to you know, past waters

(42:20):
and every Oh yeah, I think so.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
And I think it was also like he knew that
racier stuff was going to bring audiences in, right, Like
he knew that that would make money.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Did he do a girl can't help it? Was he?
I don't, I don't know. I don't know about that.
But that's why I'm in. That's the thing. Beyond the
movie itself being entertaining as hell, there are just these
great layers.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
Of oh yeah, a million things about it, like so
many people who also just became important later, like Ross
and you know, I mean IMDb says Robert Riskin did
a pass on the script too.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
I don't know if that's exactly true or not.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
He's the guy who you know with Capra and it
happened one night and you know all those pictures.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
I know, you know that I'm telling the audience.

Speaker 4 (43:04):
I'm sorry, man, I mean Frank Tashlan is listed as
producer as well as director of Girl Can't help It.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
He directed it. Yeah, but again, I want to.

Speaker 4 (43:18):
See I did the control f for Wallace on the
Wikipedia and see anything.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Okay, he did not produce that. That was produced by
Robert Jacks. But there's your Tashlin connection though. Yeah, that's
immediately why I thought, because you know Cashion, of course,
great cartoon guy before he was a great film director.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
Yeah, he was an for better.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
Or worse, taught Jerry Lewis everything he knew.

Speaker 2 (43:41):
Well, so he's the blame.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Sure, exactly exactly that disorderly orderly come on.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
Although you know he probably learned you know, I don't know.
I mean, like, I'm sure I'm not a I'm not
a day Lewis fan, but like, but I'm sure there's
value in the stuff he directed.

Speaker 2 (43:57):
And I know that he you know, like he was
an inn and stuff you.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Know well of course, yeah, of course video assists but
really just from a visual standpoint, and I did think
I do think he learned this from Tashlin. You look
at a movie like The Ladies Man, where he's the
house he's the houseboy for all of these like young
actresses and stuff. They set up this amazing set kind
of like rear window where it is, you know, and
in that case, we're looking through Jimmy Stewart's window at

(44:24):
this tenement across the street. We see what's happening at
all the different apartments and things like that. Same idea
in The Ladies Man. And I know this is completely
has nothing to do with Lewis Millstone or this movie,
but I'm saying that, like that Lewis Lewis is innovative.
He got it. I think a lot of her from Tashlin.
Tashlin did a lot of stuff with Wallace and now
we're back to zero.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
Yeah, it wasn't that like a big cutaway type set
or something.

Speaker 2 (44:48):
Did move the camera around and whatever.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
Yeah. Yeah, but there's also big moments where you do
see things happening in all these different rooms where hiring
actresses are. It's it's a very visually interesting.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
Remember that.

Speaker 3 (45:00):
For I think I remember that from watching a documentary
about Jerry Lewis. You probably couldn't pay me to watch
the actual movie, but like, you.

Speaker 1 (45:07):
Know, the weird wrinkle of that. One of the startlets
was Earth Cups and it's daughter and Cup was the
Earl Wilson or the giving Walter Winchell of Chicago, and
his daughter was an aspiring actress. She's in the Ladies
Man and actually was brutally killed and and everything.

Speaker 3 (45:29):
Didn't he did he have a TV show at some point?

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Comes as there are episodes of because I've.

Speaker 2 (45:34):
Seen some on YouTube. Yeah, absolutely, yes, I have.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
They used to serve coffee and Irish coffee bugs with
the Cups logo on it, and I have two of them.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
Like there's I can't remember if it's him, but there's
one where that has like Lucille Ball and David Mammott
and like somebody else like the Wildest Conversation like.

Speaker 1 (45:56):
Elizabeth Ashley and Otto premant Auto premature, right, yeah, And
it's all about movies to you know, in nineteen seventy
four and the crazy thing Cup is so worth And
I'm glad we're talking about this because anyone who's listening
and watching this is so worth pursuing. Cup would have
this show would start after midnight and it would go

(46:17):
as long as he felt like it, because they would
sign off when he was done, and there are shows
that would go two or three hours. I am not exaggerating.
That's what he was known for because he was this powerhouse. Yeah,
and it was after midnight, so it was either gonna
be that or the test pattern. So they didn't care, right,
but he was on both the NBC affiliate and then

(46:37):
later on PBS. And yeah that Elizabeth Actually at one
point she calls bullshit by by those words to Auto
Premier premer and he goes, bullshit, Really, I highly recommend,
like looking, it's amazing and Lucille Bones releasing Mame at

(46:58):
the time, and I'm you know, Auto's wishing that he
has a new movie because it's big probably and Mammon
is just starting. Yes, yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
So but this also just I was saying that maybe
this isn't exactly a nor movie.

Speaker 2 (47:15):
Uh you know, strange old Martha Ivers.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
It kind of is kind of isn't, But like it
ends with, oh well, I got to bring up one
thing though. The Miklos Rocha the score his kind of big, iconic,
bombastic score for this. It just feel like I feel like,
you know, I mean, there's a lot of signifiers in this,
but his score is almost like one of the biggest

(47:39):
ones it has. It just feels very iconic to me,
of of that kind of thing, like and.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
You don't at moments I found it intrusive that it
was too bad what.

Speaker 3 (47:52):
His scores are like if you know, like if you
know his stuff right, like it's always too much.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
Right yeah, anticipated like Hawick like the greatest has got
that choice, yeah yeah, And and and unfortunately, I think
the cue is a little ahead of the actually.

Speaker 3 (48:14):
Always underlining things he's it's they're always too big. I'm
just but I'm saying it has a kind of iconic.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
Feel to it.

Speaker 3 (48:21):
But it is He's like every one of his.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Scores is over the top. Rights it came to like
it came like a second or two before the moment,
right that maybe you want to remix that.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
I don't know, but I don't dislike it though, I mean, like,
I but it is too much? Is all his scores
are too much? But he's kind of notorious for that.

Speaker 1 (48:42):
Man, do any of his scores exist, you know, on
their own because that's I mean, honestly, that's some great
like passionate film score.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
Yeah, yeah, no, I mean like he's he was a
big composer, like there, he did a lot of stuff
the and particularly a lot of stuff in this kind
of thing. I feel like I could bring up I
should look him up, but we'll ask you.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Honestly, this is the kind of thing that if more
symphonies would do scores like this, I would be very
engaged to see classical music.

Speaker 4 (49:11):
You know.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
But yes, I mean when you later text me, because
I really want to look at them, Oh yeah, I will.
I really want to find music like this. I mean
this is you know me, I'm like this with the
star Trek music, and this is a thousand times for
intricate and interesting and yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Well the the so like the I was, you know saying.
The thing about the about it is that it is
air but like it ends with basically the most iconic
noir line, one of the most iconic Nora lines ever,
where he's just like, don't look back, baby, don't ever
look back. It's like, you know, but it's also just
like it's the theme of the movie, right, don't go

(49:49):
back to that fucking town, right, Like, don't go back
to Sarasota, Florida for two weeks, don't like like don't.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
You know, like I mean, sometimes you have to sometime
you just end.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
Up there, you know, but you know, but like the
but that that kind of like the summation of all
of it basically you know, and also you know, but
the you know, uh, the I guess I don't necessarily
want to spoil what happens to to Stanwick and Kirk Douglas.
But it's incredibly bleak also a little bit production code forced, right,

(50:23):
Like it's you know, it's like they have to pay, right,
And I feel like that's the phoniest part of the
movie in a way.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
But like it. It's not that it doesn't work exactly.

Speaker 3 (50:35):
Like it works in the movie, and it works like
it's not it doesn't feel entirely tacked on, but it
feels like that, you know, under the code they had
to pay for the crust.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
And the way they present it is very code as well,
because it could have been much more grizzly. Yeah, and
instead we've got it from a.

Speaker 3 (50:57):
But I like that that it's from from Van Heflin's
point of view, though and point of view through that window,
and he's like looking off at the and you know,
now in the distance, seeing the like his past, and
it's don't look back, and then don't look back and
never looked back. Like it's uh, you know, like I
love that, and I love that. That's that that it

(51:18):
actually has a kind of embracing theme to it that
it's not just you know, even if it feels a
little shaggy, it is a story about.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
That that you can literally say about every one of
the main characters because from that in fact, Effluence says
it to Elizabeth Scott.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
Yeah, exactly, and they you know, and I mean this
is a little spoiler for the you know, for the ending.
But they they survived, they drive off together. That's a
that's that doesn't happen out of the past, you know,
like the just dead right, you know or tragic you know,
or in some way you know. And they got they
basically you know, they're they're you know.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Fucked up, but they get it.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
Well they i mean, he's not he's not even getting
away with anything right, Like they're just they're getting away
from He's he.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Wasn't pulled back into it like in out of the past.

Speaker 3 (52:02):
Mitcham doesn't survive going back to the past, right, he doesn't,
you know, he goes back in there, he gets back
involved with all those people, and he and and it
overtakes him. These people like you know, like they got scorched,
but they got out, you know, and and and just
don't fucking look back.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
You know.

Speaker 3 (52:23):
Anyway, I really like this movie and it really struck
me watching it this time, and I really recommend it.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
It's easy to see too, so yeah, it's like I said,
man literally Gate points out it's on Amazon Prime, but
there are several YouTube channels that happen as well. It
is right there for you and so worth watching. And
and no disrespect to Warren Drummond who just said, hey, what's.

Speaker 2 (52:44):
Up, Hey Warren? Sorry, I didn't see that comment until now.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
Like and of course, when when the fact that it's
Martha Ivers, he had to get the Batman choke in
there and say, yeah, this is a cool Martha. Yeah.
And I'm bummed Allison. I extend the invitation Alis and
Baker again and she's she's unfortunately out of town. Yeah,
and she's never seen this movie. And I'm like, hey,

(53:09):
you want to see strong women? Yeah, this movie is
but even but even I would even say that about
Elizabeth Scott, who is dealing with a lot but I
think a strong not certainly she's the damsel in distress
but not but like she's not.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
It's not really that he has to swoop in and
favor exactly, and she kind of is forced to betray
him a little bit of one point, and like yes,
you know, and uh, you know, there's like complexity and
interest to there, you know, like, uh, I think it's
and you know, uh, Alan Roady in his commentary was like, oh, well,
her parcel a little underwritten and you know, and the

(53:49):
relationship between her and Heflin is a little like brother
and sister or something. And it's like, I don't know,
I actually really like the contrast between that thing of
you know, hef being like drawn in this sort of
chemical way back to to to stand wick, right, like
in a in an unhealthy way, right, Uh you know,

(54:10):
like he kind of can't help.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
It even though he knows this is fucked up.

Speaker 3 (54:14):
But her you know who you know, Uh, Elizabeth Scott's
character who's totally coded as somebody you know who is disreputable,
is the person who's actually, like you know, is a
very different kind of person. They have a genuine feeling
towards each other right now, not you know, uh, not
this kind of sickly thing drawn into the past. You know,

(54:35):
she's the present and you know the rest of them
are the past. Yep, I like it. I think it's
a pretty good movie.

Speaker 4 (54:43):
It's you should be a great double feature with Double Indemnity,
which came out.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Two years before.

Speaker 4 (54:49):
And I guess stan Wick got this movie because of
Double Indemnity. How else, of course he saw it. But yeah,
just like in well even more than in Double Indemnity,
she's stan Wick is really doing the Lady macbeth uh role,
even though Walter is not much of the macbeth uh,

(55:10):
She's still she's still playing that public master, you know.

Speaker 3 (55:15):
Right well, I mean it's too and to what I
mean in Dublin Demnity, she's doing it to another Walter
Walter nef you know, uh but Fred McMurray. But you know,
I think both are great movies. I think is one
of the greatest movies.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
But that's but that's the thing, man, that's the obvious one.
And rightfully so that's why again.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
That's why we're not covering double in dentity on her right,
why we're covering his brains.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
Love market he suggested this. I'm like, oh yeah, man,
that's like, that's the B side to double at the end,
this pointing out if it were a forty five, and
it's like, yeah, she's great on that too. That's it.
Don't be cool B side, you know, a side combination.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
And I'm making it.

Speaker 3 (55:58):
I think it's a triple feature though. I think I
think you start with doublin dentity, you watch Strangelove of
Martha Ivers in the center, and then the next one
is out of the past because that because Kirk Douglas
isn't out of the past, and you know, it follows.

Speaker 2 (56:10):
And thematically they follow really well.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
Like the the betrayal stuff, the you know, going into
your past and and it haunting you.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
I think Elizabeth Scott comparison, I think that it made that.

Speaker 2 (56:23):
I think those would make an excellent triple.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
Well, and this is two hours. I forget how long,
uh the other two are. But as I was going
to say, if you know it's been slick, it was
a slicker ninety minutes each, you'd be like, oh, that's
not bad.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
Well, you know, I'm just honestly, I'm just telling everyone
they have to invest in in six hours of these movies.

Speaker 4 (56:43):
I'm all kinds of stupid ship.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
Yeah watch, yeah, absolutely yeah. I saw somebody on X
is like, uh, named the last black and white movie
you've seen? And it's like how many can you name?

Speaker 2 (56:57):
And it's like, yeah, what time is it? You know?

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Well, I was going to say, like I think, I
think forty at least forty percent of what I see
is black and white movies. My god. Yeah, so because
there's so much and there aren't so many good hidden gems.
And again, this is why I'm glad we do this truly.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
Oh yeah, no, absolutely so, I'm yeah, I'm glad you
went along with this one because I I, uh, you know,
I really enjoyed talking about this and I think that
and revisiting it. You know, It's it's just, I don't know,
it's a little outside of what we do sometimes like
and but it really fits I think, and uh, I
don't know, but uh, I mean it's like there's no
Burrow lives in it, you know, I mean that's true,

(57:32):
you know, like we have I mean, we're going to
get to that I assume next month we're going to
do Burrol Lives.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Okay, and also you know, we want to eventually talk
about some quirky jack Web stuff.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
True, true, absolutely, you know, and maybe you know what
Colossus the Foreman Project.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Yes, yes, if we can. You know Ian we were
talking about that Gab and I uh uh and saying
maybe for December.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
Yeah, I mean, I'm here's the thing. Every time I
bring up Burrol Lives and that we're going to do
an episode on a lot, I'm mostly lying, right, I
mean we are someday we're going to do it, right, but.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
We are gonna do it. I do want to do it.
I do want to do it.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
The countries again, it's another way. It's it's the Western
kind of thing, like Martha Ivers, where it's like, okay,
that's not immedingly comes to mind the way I Noon
or The Searcher or you know, even win Chester seventy three,
and it's like, oh yeah, Big Country is actually really good.
And again there's a beyond the brow lives of it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
I think we need to do an embracing Borough Lives
podcast though, I think we really need to take his
entire career intocause.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
As I've said, I'm ready with my bold ones comments
of his Lawyers show on NBC. No, absolutely, and you
know arange pot of Baro lives. Yes, the strange product
and also at shame on us really that should be
next because of you know, him being in Rudolph. Sure, yeah,
you'll forgive me, but you know that I'm literally as
old as that as that television.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Actually I'm I'm unabashedly a huge fan of the like
I actually love it. But uh yeah no, and I'm
absolutely here to talk about two Moon Junction.

Speaker 1 (59:08):
But I didn't remember that? Is he really? Yes? Uh?

Speaker 2 (59:14):
And uh?

Speaker 1 (59:15):
Jo? We we have conjured John Freeman? He did I
hear for there you go man, Yeah, he's there, he's therefore.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
Yeah, all right, well I think we did this, you.

Speaker 4 (59:28):
Know we did.

Speaker 1 (59:29):
Absolutely we did good. Once again, I apologize it.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
No, no, no, my fault.

Speaker 3 (59:34):
I have two modes just like, uh, you know, dead
and and angry right now, so like.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
Hey, what did you guys notice new opening? And we're
gonna close with it as well.

Speaker 2 (59:45):
Oh is it? Uh? Maybe? But is it a network now?
I feel like it's a network now.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
You know, there's this show, there's some art limit shows
in a scope show me and Arden Franco all yeah,
podcasts three of us so and then I.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Just feel like it wasn't a network the last time
you talked about work.

Speaker 1 (01:00:02):
Yeah, so it's great that it's an evolution. I've got
I've got affiliates in Albuquerque and Botswana and a lot
of other places unknown. Very good, All right, thanks for watching.
Join us again likely next month for another edition of
Scene Missing. But until then, to quote, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:21):
Hold on wait wait wait wait wait, stop stop stop.
So on next Wednesday, my my comic Batman Green Arrow,
the question Arcadia comes out. The first issue of it
comes out, so like you know, so everybody you know,
if you get it at your local retailer, great, if
you happen to be in California or in southern California.

(01:00:43):
I'm going to be signing at Collector's Paradise in Pasadena
the first issue on Wednesday, the twenty sixth, and.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
Then I would assume you and I are going to
do a full fledged word.

Speaker 3 (01:00:53):
We absolutely need to. I keeping to ask you about it,
and I have been a.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
Little you were working. I didn't know one it was
went out.

Speaker 3 (01:01:00):
So it's trust me like I, we can, we can
do it. Let's we let's do it. Let's let's let's figure.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
It out and do it.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
No whatever, you know, like, let's uh, let's soon, let's
do a podcast about it, because if.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
We can, if we could do it either before or
right after it comes.

Speaker 3 (01:01:17):
Out there, I would Yeah, I would love to do
it right before and uh, it's I just have to
figure out my traveling schedule.

Speaker 1 (01:01:22):
We will talk off here. That'll be great. All right,
there you go, everybody, So we've teased the thing, and
poor in we'll be left out in the cold for
that one. I'm sorry. Sorry, you know, cheer from the sidelines.
All right, every so pay attention. This is the this
is the new opening and the new clothes. Take care
of everybody. The I was gonna say that quote Gean Stern,
Jean Stern quot Jean Cisco. The balcony is closed.