The Mo Egger Radio Show -- 7/18/25

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Thousand bucks come in my way. Can't wait? What's up
that'll buy me? Like, I have a cart and a
grocery sere, so hopefully I could win that money, though
I'm probably not eligible. It's up Mulleger, ESPN fifteen thirty.
I hope your weekend's off to an awesome start. If
your weekend hasn't started yet, that's cool. We'll end the

(00:22):
work week together, you and I between now and six o'clock.
Show Rundown is available. We tweet it every day at moegar.
I was just talking with Austin Ellmore about like, you know,
sometimes Twitter's really good. Twitter can at times be a cesspool.
Now it's less of a cesspool for people like me
who don't follow morons and use it just to amuse

(00:43):
myself or promote myself. But it can, I guess, at
times be a cess pool. Yesterday with the Coldplay couple,
it was the exact opposite. So I'm still on that
app and I enjoy it for the most part, and
so we tweet the show preview out at moegar. It
comes your way thanks to Emory Federal Credit Union, your
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(01:05):
EMORYFCU dot org. By the way, it's one month from today.
I've been talking about this for a while. One month
from today the Emery Federal Credit Union golf outing, which
is always a blast. It benefits Cincinnati Children's charities and
it's at four Bridges Country Club and it's an absolute
blast and we hope to see you there. You can
sign up now and get information at Emory FCU dot

(01:28):
orga that's Emery FCU dot org. In about an hour.
In fact, at four o'clock, Kelsey Conway is gonna stop
by join us in studio. Covers the Bengals for The
Inquirer and Cincinnati dot Com. We always have like a
pre draft conversation and a pre draft. We do have
a pre draft conversation, but a precamp conversation, and so

(01:51):
you're gonna hear that annual Right of Summer coming up
at four oh five. Also, Max Bretas, who's calling Fccincinnati
and Real salt Lake, is going to join us at
five twenty. He is with Apple TV, Turner Sports and
MLS Season Pass. We are looking forward to that. The
Reds are in New York. Reds play a baseball game tonight.
It feels like it's been forever. They have sixty five

(02:13):
games to prove their plan is working. It is remarkable.
It is remarkable how low our standards are here when
it comes to the local baseball team that coming up
here in just a bit. Kelsey's gonna join us in
the four o'clock hour're we've got a touch on Shamar
Stewart and Trey Hendrickson and Demetrius Knight and contract like

(02:35):
those are things that are important and that if you're
a Bengals fan, you've probably been thinking about and talking about.
So we're gonna spend some time on that. This is
a fascinating football team, and fascinating football teams have lots
of interesting things happening with them. And let's face it,
most of the things that are interesting are going to

(02:56):
play themselves out more once the real games begin, as
opposed to training camp. But still, I mean, think about it.
We know this, but you say it out loud sometimes,
and it's remarkable. The Bengals last year got a career
best season and an MVP caliber season from a guy

(03:17):
who plays the most important position in all of sports.
That is a thing that happened. It wasn't an MVP
winning season, of course, but it was MVP caliber. You
can look at those numbers and go, eh, you can
give the hardware to that guy. He was a finalist.
They get an MVP caliber season from a guy who
plays the most important position in sports, a guy who

(03:38):
is the most important player in the history of the franchise.
That guy did his part, and yet they didn't make
the playoffs. That in itself forget your rooting interest. If
you just follow the league and follow the sport, that
in itself makes the Bengals one of the more fascinating
franchises in this league. And there the main question. You know,

(04:04):
we we ranked quarterbacks and debate. You know this time
of year ESPN had Joe Burrow is number three, And
I'm not that interested in that. The question that I
have is have the Bengals done enough to lessen the
burden on Joe Burrow? And over the next few weeks,
once training camp begins, the first practice is going to
be on Wednesday of next week, we will be there

(04:26):
broadcasting starting at ten am Tony and Moe Training Camp Show.
But do we start to get answers to that fundamental
question that is the most important question hovering over this
franchise right now. Have they lessened the burden on Joe Burrow?
Joe is always going to be the most important player
because he plays the most important position. And when you're

(04:48):
a franchise quarterback, you know, you have to kind of
put up with the fact that a lot of stuff
is going to trickle down to you and you're gonna
be asked to win, You're gonna be asked to thrive,
You're gonna be asked to deliver in the face of
a lot of adversity. But man, last year, they just
put too much on him and it was way too much.
Even as good as Joe Burrow was, and he was

(05:10):
awesome last year, he wasn't good enough to overcome all
the circumstances around him. So does that change? Have they
done enough this offseason to lessen the burden on Joe Burrow?
To take a little bit off his shoulders, just a
little bit and maybe we get some of those answers
once training camp begins. Above and beyond Schamar and Trey

(05:32):
and contracts and language and guarantees and the market being reset,
are we gonna see signs? And granted you might see
more of these signs if Trey and Schamar and Dimitrius
Knight were there, I'm still going to guess Demitrius Knight
gets done. That deal gets done between now and the
start of camp, we'll see. But do we see signs

(05:53):
during training camp that the defense is fixed? Do we
see signs during training camp that this team's defense has
a floor, not so much a ceiling, or though that'd
be nice, but a floor higher than last year's. Do
we see those signs during training camp? Who takes advantage?
Like I think the most interesting position group on this

(06:15):
team is in the secondary, where they did nothing and
it may work. There are a lot of players that
I think we would agree are are worth keeping around
and are worth taking a bet on. But wow, for
a team that was awful in the secondary last year,

(06:36):
it's pretty striking how little they did. So who in
that group, both at corner and at safety, takes advantage
of the faith that's been shown in them by this team.
Does Geno Stone reward their faith? Does Gino'stone make back
the money that they took from him by asking for
a pay cut? Are there signs from Miles Murphy that

(06:59):
he's capable of contributing again? Like, you're only gonna get
limited answers during training camp, You're only gonna get limited
answers during preseason games. But do we start to like
the answers we see over the next few weeks when
it comes to the secondary, when it comes to a
player like Geno Stone, who most of us at the
end of last season wanted gone, do we see something

(07:21):
from Miles Murphy that would suggest, you know what, when
the games begin, this guy is going to be capable
of contributing. And you know what, if the games begin
and Shamar Stewart's not here or Trey Hendrickson's not there,
it's not gonna be that bad because Miles Murphy is
capable of contributing. Does camp begin to prove that the
Bengals have done enough on the defensive line? How does

(07:44):
the offensive line fare? It's been a joke between Tony
and Pike and I over the last few years where
you know, he's done these live training camp reports with us,
and he's still gonna do them even though practice is
going to be in the morning. But he does these
live training camp reports and often he is, you know,
said to me on the air, MO, the offensive line
is getting its tail kicked, and like, we'll find people

(08:06):
who get mad at that, and it's like, well, he's
just telling you what's happening. But then what happens once
the games begin? It turns out what Tony saw was
foreshadowing what ended up happening during the regular season, which
was the offensive line being a wreck. How does the
offensive line fair during training camp? And does that group
start to give us a clue as to how much

(08:28):
better that unit can be? Who ends up being the
starting guards? Is Amarus Mims poised for a breakout season?
Who's the number three wide receiver? Now it's kind of
de facto Mike Kasicki, he really is a wide receiver,
but if we're still going to classify him as a
tight end, who's the third wide receiver on this team?

(08:48):
Andre Yoshavas might have the inside track or is he plateaued?
Does Jermaine Burton take advantage of an opportunity that some
teams maybe wouldn't give him. Do they carry four running backs?
I think as much as we talk about how good
they are at the top of the deb charted wide receiver,
as much as you could rave about their quarterback room

(09:09):
for obvious reasons, I love the running back room, Samaj
pen Ryn coming back, Zach Moss being cleared, Taj Brooks.
I've talked extensively about him this offseason. Obviously we know
what Chase Brown can do. Are they gonna carry four?
Is Evan McPherson pois for a bounce back? Something we

(09:30):
touched on a little bit yesterday. Vin McPherson is extraordinarily
popular and understandably so, and has kind of carved out
a role to be remembered forever in the history of
this franchise because of some of the kicks he made
his first two NFL seasons. Last year by a normal
kicker standards wasn't great. Does he turn into a weapon again?

(09:55):
And do we see signs during camp in the preseason
that would suggest the answer is going to be yes?
And more than anything. Are the Bengals finally capable of
lessening the burden on Joe Burrow? Can the Bengals win
games this season where Joe Burrow is not at his best?

(10:16):
Can they win games this season that they don't blow
and win because Joe is at his best instead of
wasting him when he's at his best. The Trey Hendrickson
thing and the Shamar Stewart thing. Those contractual issues will
occupy a lot of time, which is unfortunate for the

(10:37):
Bengals themselves. It sucks for Zach Taylor, it stinks for
a lot of the players on the team. But this
is a fascinating football team. It's a fascinating football team
because of what they didn't do last year, because of
how they've chosen to build their roster, because of what
they chose not to do this offseason. I've said, and
I'm not the only person who has said this, but

(10:57):
if you go back to the end of last year,
I would have told you that from a player acquisition,
player retainment standpoint, that what the Bengals have done is
what they're going to do. You would have said, Mo,
that's not going to be good enough. Well here we are.
Have they gotten it right? I can't wait to start
to get the answers. We'll talk about these things and
more with Kelsey Conway coming up in just about forty

(11:20):
five minutes. Our phone lines are open five point three
seven four nine fifteen thirty and uh eight six six
seven oh two three seven seven six at Mogar on Twitter.
Thanks to Delta Dental, Delta Dental is building healthy, smart,
vibrant communities for all good at Delta dentaloh dot com.
It's seventeen minutes after three o'clock. My standards are not

(11:42):
that high when it comes to the Reds. They open
up the second half of the season in New York tonight.
We'll talk about them next on ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati
Sports station later on. I'm almost ready to just give
Trey Hendrickson a blank shack. Almost that coming up and
just a little bit yeah, man, Like you know, I

(12:05):
watch people online argue over quarterback rankings, and I just
I think it reaches a point of absurdity. Sometimes there's
too much vitriol, you know, Like if if an analyst
says Joe Burrow is the third best quarterback in the NFL, great, awesome,
I've got. I've got a top three guy, and be

(12:25):
happy with the two dudes in front of him, Like
I'm thrilled. I don't. I don't need someone else's validation.
If you're a Bengals fan, you should be elated that
you have Joe Burrow as your team's quarterback. What you
should be asking is has the franchise done more to
help him Has the franchise done more to take the
burden off his shoulders that he carried around last year?

(12:47):
Has the franchise done more to ensure that Joe Burrow
isn't mad all the time like he understandably was last year.
Have the Bengals done more for Joe Burrow? Have they
done more to take advantage of a guy who, when
he gets through a full season, performs at an MVP
caliber level. Okay, I think he has now had enough

(13:08):
of them full seasons. Where you go, if he plays
all seventeen games, I know what the numbers are going
to look like. I know what the caliber of play
is going to be if he plays that many games.
And the first two times he played in that many
games obviously the one year he missed the last game
because it didn't mean anything, and then one year they

(13:29):
only played sixteen games because of Damorrow Hamlin. But you
get the point, right, When he plays a full season,
he plays at a high level. Have you done enough
to ensure that you're not wasting high level quarterback play
that you're almost guaranteed to get as long as he's healthy.
Now you might argue wealthy as long as he's healthy,
part is something that I worry about because of the

(13:50):
offensive line, and that's fair. But okay, have they done
more to not only lessen the burden on Joe Burrow,
have they done enough to ensure as best they can
that he's better protected. How anybody else wants to rank
Joe Burrow, dude, have at it. I don't care. The
part that matters is what the Bengals have done to

(14:10):
take advantage of Joe Burrow and to protect him. Twenty
six minutes after three o'clock, Reds are in New York tonight.
Second half of the season proverbial second half of the
season begins tonight Reds and Mets. Nick Lodolo is going
to start for Cincinnati tonight against Sean and Aya seven
hundred WLW go make the playoffs? Like legitimately. I know

(14:34):
I sound exasperated, I'm not. Most of us have been
pointing toward twenty twenty five is the year where the
Reds needed to matter again. Forget for a second twenty
twenty three, which is hard to do when the Reds
in March and April of twenty twenty two set forth
on a path to lose one hundred games that year.
I think most of us believed, Okay, the payoffs got

(14:56):
to come by twenty twenty five payoff, meaning make the playoffs.
Our standards here aren't that high. We're asking for the
Reds to qualify as the sixth seed in the playoffs,
not exactly demanding that they win the division or that
they win close to one hundred games. We're asking them

(15:16):
to have the sixth best record in the National League.
Nobody is saying they have to win and advance in
the postseason once they get there. The standards here aren't
yet that high, and frankly haven't been for a while.
Play a one hundred and sixty third game and we're
gonna be happy in the absence of achieving that this

(15:38):
plan's not working. And I know I sound exasperated. My
take is the Reds are gonna finish eighty three eighty
four wins be on the outside looking in. Might take
all year long has been the starting pitching is good
enough that they're not going to totally fade. The offense
is shaky enough that you can't out on them to

(16:00):
get over the hump until I'm proven wrong. That's how
I'm gonna feel, and maybe I'll feel different based on
what they do at the deadline, if they do anything,
but like it's the second half of the twenty twenty
five season, like this is when the payoff is supposed
to come. Man, I'm sorry, And then you add to
it twenty twenty three. Like two years ago, if I
would have said, hey, twenty twenty six is gonna get here,

(16:23):
and we're still waiting for the Reds to make the
playoffs as the sixth seed for the first time, you
would have said that's not good enough. Like they're now
I think, for the first time in quite a while,
going to be judged by do you make the postseason.
They're entering the second half within range. Obviously a lot
to do, Obviously not favored, Obviously a lot of odds

(16:46):
are against them. Obviously they've got a lead PROGSOM teams.
Obviously they've got to overcome their own deficiencies. But what
other metrics should we be using in this point to
determine what success is finishing? About five hundred did that
two years ago? Playing meaningful games in September hard pass
on that more than half of the teams in the

(17:06):
sport are gonna play meaningful games in September. We hear
all the time about the future. We hear all the
time about what's next. We hear all the time about
the plan and how it's gonna pay off big and
they're gonna have sustained success. It's got to start somewhere.
Payoffs got to come, It's got to start this year.

(17:27):
These next sixty five games are enormous for this franchise.
I think huge for the confidence level. People are gonna
have a Nick krawl. I think huge for the relationship
between this fan base and this franchise. I think huge
for this plan to be one that you could look
at and say it's working. If this plan is working,

(17:51):
threads are in the playoffs this year. Shy of that.
I don't want to hear it, no excuses. Don't want
to hear about injuries. Not interested in hearing about baseball's economics.
Don't want to know about the COVID year where you
lost a lot of money, some snag in the organization,
how the rules are unfair, how they need to expand
the postseason. Dude, it's twenty twenty five. This plan has

(18:14):
been underway for a while. Go make the postseason, and
if you can't, then we have to revisit a whole
lot of things, a whole lot of things. You got
sixty five games to show that the plan is working,
and if it's not, then the people in charge of
the plan, we've got to re examine them. Three point
thirty sports headlines are next ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports

(18:36):
Station are a service of Kelsey Chevro Laley home of
lifetime powertrain protection and guaranteed credit approval from their family
to yours for life, kelseyshev dot Com. Second half of
the season. Starting for the Reds tonight, They're in New York,
first of three against the Mets. Nicolodolo and left the
sham Manaya are tonight, starting pitchers seven to ten this

(18:56):
evening on seven hundred WLW. You've got a four ten
game tomorrow and a one to ten game on Friday.
This is the beginning of a six game road trip
that will send the Reds to Washington for a series
against the Nationals next week. Your starting lineup tonight, get
your scorecards. TJ. Friedel's and center Matt McClain's at second.

(19:18):
Li De la Cruz is playing shortstop Hayes and left
Steers at first. Noelvee Martes at third base, Tyler Stevens
and DH's Jose Travino is catching, and Santiago Espinal is
in right field tonight and he is batting. Ninth. Reds
come into the second half two and a half games
out of the last wildcard spot. For what it's worth,
New York currently occupies the second wildcard spot. Florence Y'all's

(19:41):
home tonight for something called the Mississippi mud Monsters. That's
Frontier League Baseball. The Mississippi mud Monsters are in town.
Throw out the records, throw out the records when the
y'alls take on the Mississippi mud Monsters. FC Cincinnati hitting
the road Salt Lake City tomorrow night for a tilt

(20:02):
against Real Salt Lake. That game will air on ESPN
fifteen thirty, with pregame coverage beginning at nine o'clock and
kickoff at nine thirty. There you go. I believe, I
believe that would be it for local sports headlines. Let's
take some phone calls, talk to some other people. Five one, three, seven, four, nine,

(20:23):
fifteen thirty. Marvin, You're on ESPN fifteen thirty. Marvin, good afternoon,
how are you? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (20:31):
I think you know I'm pretty good in yourself.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
Marvin, I am doing very well. Thank you for calling.
What's on your mind?

Speaker 2 (20:38):
Oh all right, Well, you know I only do positivity
with the Bengals, so I don't got nothing negative for you.
Give it to me for the fact that I think
the Bengals have done everything in their power. First, you
have to always look at the Bengals as a business.
They the number one business oriented team in the nfield,
and they've paid more money than they really even had

(21:01):
to pay. They got the highest paid quarterback to two
highest pad receivers in all of football. These are no
small task for a small market team. These are great
task for a small market team. And everybody wants to
blame the defense last year of being terrible, terrible, terrible. Well,
I want to know what defense other than possibly Philadelphia

(21:25):
could lose both of their two inside tackles and their
number one quarterback by Week three and make the playoffs.
It won't be too many teams able to do such
a thing. And everybody wants to blame the debut. Oh
they didn't do this, they do. Well, how come they
not blaming Joe Burrow not coming up with more than
one touchdown in the first game of the season against

(21:47):
a two to fourteen team the previous league year they
wanted to be in the playoffs, and he came up
with a couple of touchdowns in that game.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
So the biggest So the biggest issue for last year
was how Joe Burrow played in the first game against
the Patriots when he was coming off a wrist injury.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
No, that's not the biggest. That is one of the
reasons they didn't make the playoffs. And no one ever
say it.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Yeah, one.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Defensive tackles in our number one quarterback by week three,
what team is going to be able to overcome that?

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Marvin injuries are a part of the sport. I mean,
I'll grant you they should have played better against the Patriots,
and had they won that game, they're a playoff team.
Joe was bad in that game. There's no getting around it.
I also think you could look at that game and
go they barely used Chase Brown, They missed a million tackles,
They let a bad Patriots team hang around. There was
a key turnover by Tan or Hudson, like, there were
a lot of different things in that game. But yeah, look,

(22:43):
beat the Patriots. They should have won that game. At home.
There's no question about it. I don't use injuries as
an excuse, uh to make the postseason when you're when
your quarterback in your offense plays at the level the
Bengals did last year, to not make the postseason with
that defense, I don't. I don't give you the excuse
of injury that doesn't happen. One quick correction of what

(23:04):
you said. One quick correction, Marvin, and then I'll let
you continue. T Higgins is not the second highest paid
wide receiver in the NFL. He's up there. I think
he's ninth, but he's not the second highest paid. They're
paying him a lot of money, that's the point, but
he's not the second highest pad guy.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
Is he the highest number two wide receiver in the interview?

Speaker 3 (23:21):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Without question? Without question?

Speaker 2 (23:25):
Trying to say yeah, without question. Okay, now my comments
about Hims. You know, I love that guy. He's a
good player, but he is not worth what he wants
because you know, he don't do He don't play all
four positions on the defensive line like these other guys
are getting forty million. How many tackle for loss in

(23:46):
the backs? Okay, you remember him having how many games
saving sacks?

Speaker 4 (23:50):
Winning sacks to stop the game.

Speaker 2 (23:52):
Shut the other team down so we could win. Get
he have I can't remember any well.

Speaker 5 (23:57):
I mean, he's got a good.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
Player, He's just not a forty million dollar player.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
To be fair, the most. To be fair, Marvin, the
most recent game the Bengals played, Trey Hendrickson had exactly
one of those sacks. But I think it was against
Pittsburgh Steelers. Did you watch the last game of the season.
Trey Hendrickson closed out that game. Now your point prior

(24:22):
to that, your point prior to that, I don't disagree with.
Like he's he's an edge rusher. They don't move him inside.
That's not necessarily his fault, but they haven't historically moved
him inside like a guy like Miles Garrett. And he's
also like TJ. Watt is great against the run, Trey
Hendrickson is not. And I think that's part of why

(24:43):
the Bengals position has been what it is as it
relates to Trey. They view him as a guy whose
sack productivity is likely to dip as he gets older,
and who against the run isn't. He's not terrible, but
he's not great. He's not as good as some of
the other guys who are you know, make up the
upper echelon of edge rushers in this league.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Okay, I was gonna make quick quick.

Speaker 5 (25:10):
About the Reds.

Speaker 4 (25:11):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (25:11):
Now, Look, I've been Washington Reds since the seventy and
I know for a fact that Sparky Anderson would turn
over in his grave if he knew it was a
two hundred hitter in the two hole. I'm searings now.
I heard Ken Griffrey Sr. Say on the radio this

(25:35):
year and he was batting three o two and it
wasn't good enough to be in the two hole. And
Sparky told him, you don't get that average up, you
won't be in the two hole where he's dd. He
got up to three twenty four and next year. Yeah,
but I don't understand what's going on with because now
I like McClain. Don't get me wrong, the two hole
is just not the spot for him. That's the only

(25:56):
grap I really have about.

Speaker 1 (25:58):
That, Marvin. I don't just look. We talked about this yesterday.
I read some of the numbers. There are two whole
production this year is among the league's worst. I think,
like twenty ninth in ops, twenty eighth and on base
percentage like their two whole production and the primary culprit
is Matt McLain. I think the thing is though, when
they moved him down for a while to eight and

(26:18):
then you know nine, they use Santiago Espinal as the
two hole. So the question then becomes, and I have
answers to this, The question then becomes, well, if it's
not Matt McLain, and you don't want it to be
Santiago Espinal, who do you want to hit second? I
have no issue trying Toelve Marte up there. I have
no issue hitting Elie Dela Cruz there. But if it

(26:38):
remains Matt McClain, and it at least will tonight everybody
talks about they need more power, and that would certainly
be nice. They need better production from the second spot
in the batting order, or this offense's limitations will only continue.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
Agree totally, you hit the nail on a heat. But
one thing I will say about the red Yeah, lay
watch his sister. We got a bunch of kids playing it.
We are at no veterans on that team playing them.
The league jim through to no playoffs. These kids are
doing great. They're overachieving right now, and they have to

(27:14):
have a chance to get them two games under their bill.
Half of these players, I ain't even seen every team
in the league yet.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
Yeah, I don't think they're overachieving, Marvin. I hope so,
and I really do appreciate the call, and I hopie
call again. Have a great weekend. I don't think they're overachieving.
I don't think the Reds are necessarily underachieving, you know. Again,
not that it's all about me. My take prior to
the season was they're going to win eighty three games.

(27:42):
Right now, they're on pace to win eighty three and
a half games. They have been I think what most
of us thought that they were going to be, if not,
maybe a little bit better. The whole part about them
being young, I don't know.

Speaker 6 (27:54):
Man.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Spencer Steeer is twenty seven. You know, Austin Hayes is
twenty nine, has played in the playoffs. TJ. Friedel's twenty nine,
Jake Freeley's thirty years old, Tyler Stevenson his twenty eight,
has been with the club since twenty twenty.

Speaker 5 (28:09):
You know.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Nick Martinez is thirty four. Brady Singer's twenty eight to
twenty nine years old, Amelio Pagan's thirty four, Scott Barlow's thirty.
His grand mass craft has been this is his fourth year.
Nick Lodolo, this is his fourth year. This is not
a team full of pups. They're not exactly old, and

(28:30):
I don't think it's unreasonable to wonder, like, you know,
who are the main leadership cogs on this team, although
I think that was kind of answered to a degree
when they had the players only meeting a few weeks ago,
spearheaded by Gavin Luxe Jose Travino. They don't get if
they missed the postseason. To me, at least, they don't
get the excuse of youth they I mean, you know,

(28:52):
even Eli della Cruse is only twenty three years old,
but he's has now been in the big leagues for
more than two years. Like, the thing for me is
nobody nobody is saying World Series or bust. I don't
think anybody is saying advance in the postseason or bust.

(29:14):
But if, in what is essentially the fifth year of
this plan, the payoff doesn't come in the form of
a postseason appearance, is the plan really working? That's my question.
I hope to God that we don't have to ask
that question once the season ends. Hopefully once the regular

(29:35):
season ends. We're talking about the Reds playing in the playoffs,
and I think most of us would view that as
a success and tangible evidence that the plan is working.
Not that it's worked, but that it's working. Shy of that,
maybe I'm in the minority. You're gonna have a hard
time convincing me, and I think a whole lot of

(29:56):
other people this is working. If in again, year five
of your plan, I'll be fair. I'll say year four, Okay,
that includes twenty two, twenty twenty two when they lost
one hundred games, twenty twenty three, when they were fun
in one eighty two last year, which cost the manager's job.

(30:16):
Year four this year, I can't ask you to win
I don't know, eighty seven games and get to the postseason.
Right now, right now, the Padres are on pace to
win eighty eight. They occupy the last wild card spot,
and again I don't think they will. I believe the
Reds will be on the outside looking in once the
postseason gets here. But if that is the case, you're

(30:38):
gonna have a hard time saying with any real conviction
that anyone will believe. Hey, yes, stick with us. This
plan is working. Twelve away from four o'clock, Kelsey Conway
is going to be with us in studio on a
whole myriad of Bengals topics at four oh five on
ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. I don't think anybody
got cut. Hey, don't forget. Well, we've been talking about

(31:01):
the Bengals. For the first time ever. We're broadcasting from
Bengals training camp. The Tonian Mode Training Camp show will
air at ten different days during camp, beginning on Wednesday,
the twenty third. That is the first day of workouts.
We'll be on while the Bengals are practicing. Exactly how
that's gonna work, I'm not entirely sure. I don't know.
If we're supposed to call like play by play of

(31:22):
training camp, tell you who's walking over to get a
drink of water, which coach is yelling and screaming. I
don't know, So we'll kind of all find out together
on the fly. So the first show is going to
be on Wednesday, the twenty third at ten o'clock in
the morning, and you're probably going, well, wait a minute,
what's that going to mean for the rest of the day. Nothing.
The rest of the day is totally unchanged. Tony and

(31:43):
I are going to be working extra So you got
the Tonian Mode Training Camp show ten to noon, and
then Tony will stick around and do SINC three to
sixty from Bengals training Camp. I will leave and do
my show from here from the studio from three to six.
So that's going to be next Wednesday, and we are
looking forward to that. By the way, anything you might
have missed on this show, you can go and get

(32:04):
on the iHeartRadio app. Interviews, entire shows, and so much more.
And when you go to the iHeartRadio app, make sure
you set a preset for ESPN fifteen thirty. Podcasts of
this show are a service of long Neck Sports Grill.
If you're thinking, you know what, It's Friday night. I
want to go out, I want to watch the ball game.
I want to have a couple of cold ones. I
want to eat a plate of wings. Well North of

(32:25):
Kentucky has three long next locations. You got Wilder, you
got Hebron, you got Richwood. You've got an awesome, awesome place.
Like I our last caller there, Marvin made a lot
of really good points the first one on the Bengals
like that defense doesn't get off the hook for the
way it played last year. They were historically bad. When

(32:46):
you go through a stretch in the middle of your
season with your playoff hopes hanging in the balance, and
your offense scores ninety nine points in three games and
you don't win any that's well not acceptable. And look,
the Bengals told you it's not acceptable because they they
fired the defensive coordinator, So you can't make that excuse that. Well,
you know they had an injury or two. Injuries are

(33:07):
a part of this league more than any other. The
point on the Reds is important. You know, we were
talking yesterday about you know, possible trade deadline acquisitions. Everybody
wants a home run hitter? Are you Haineo Areo Haaneo
Suarez is a subject on New York Sports talk radio
today because I listened to that for about twenty five minutes.

(33:28):
Everybody wants a power hitting third basement. I'm interested in
offensive help anywhere I can get it. If it's a
home run hitter, awesome. This team needs dramatically better production
than the two hole, and so right now it falls
on Matt McLain. You talk about one of the reasons
why this team's offense has not overachieved. Matt McLain's lack
of production in the two hole is a major major

(33:50):
reason why. Kelsey Conway from The Inquirer and Cincinnati dot
Com is going to spend some time with us in
studio to talk about Bengals training camp next on ESPN
fifteen thirty. Out here you get your hands from all right,
that's us four minutes after four. This is ESPN fifteen
thirty Moegger, Thanks for listening. Hopefully your weekend is off

(34:11):
to an unbelievable start. Brendanman and Jones on Baseball in
just about forty five minutes. Max Breadtoss from NLS Season
Pass on Apple TV is going to join us at
five twenty. He has FC Cincinnati versus Real Salt Lake
tomorrow night. That conversation happens at five twenty. Bengals training
camp begins next week and she's got to start working

(34:34):
now after taking the next last four months off. Kelsey
Conway of the Cincinnati Inquirer, who covers the Bengals Cincinnati
dot Com as well, is with us for an in
studio visit for the hour. It is awesome to have you.
What's going on?

Speaker 7 (34:48):
Thank you so much for having me. I love being here.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
What an interesting offseason?

Speaker 3 (34:53):
Huh.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
So there's lots of moving parts to the team that
are not related to Trey Hendrickson specifically or Shamar Stewart,
and we're going to talk about them, but we have
to start by talking about those two guys. If I
would have said you on draft night that you'll and
not be sitting here on July eighteenth, and the Bengals
first round pick will not have signed, not have practiced,

(35:17):
and by now will be showed showing no signs of
signing or practicing, you would have said, what.

Speaker 7 (35:25):
There's no way.

Speaker 8 (35:26):
But now I'm saying, of course, is what happened in
Cincinnati right with just kind of how the last couple
of years have gone leading up to training camp. There's
no one that could have predicted this was going to happen,
but here we are, and here we are talking about
it for the third month in a row.

Speaker 1 (35:45):
So, yeah, it doesn't end, it doesn't go away. Let's
start with Trey. Is there any chance that they get
something done between now and the start of camp?

Speaker 8 (35:57):
I checked in on it this week, and there has
been no new updates as of just a couple of
days ago. So the reason I bring that up first
before I answer the question the way you post it
is knowing the Bengals and how some of these things
have gone. I'm looking at Monday night, Tuesday and Wednesday

(36:21):
for the movement, but I don't think anything changes in
the next week. I am fully anticipating Trey Hendrickson and
Shamar Stewart not to be in camp on Wednesday.

Speaker 7 (36:35):
Let's just say at this point I will be surprised.

Speaker 8 (36:39):
I mean, that would be great for the Bengals, but
knowing enough about both situations and how things have gone
over the last couple of months, I don't see how
it changes simply because everybody keeps talking about TJ. Watt
and how that deal if it affects Trey. Of course
it does. It's just more validation of the market. And

(37:00):
we've talked about this a number of times. The Bengals
don't view Trey Hendrickson in the same category as Mile
Scarett and TJ.

Speaker 5 (37:08):
Watt.

Speaker 7 (37:09):
They don't even view him, I.

Speaker 8 (37:10):
Believe, in the same category as Max Crosby because they
haven't offered him.

Speaker 7 (37:15):
Those types of contracts. That's how we know that, that's
not how they view him.

Speaker 8 (37:19):
So to think that the Bengals are going to move
up let's say seven to ten million dollars, I mean,
we don't know the final offer as of right now,
but say it's seven or ten million dollars.

Speaker 7 (37:34):
To think that a team is going.

Speaker 8 (37:35):
To move that much in a week before next Wednesday,
I think is unrealistic. And so that's why I don't
think that a deal is going to get worked out
by next Wednesday. I could be completely wrong, but I
checked in on it this week. There hadn't been anything
new to report, and I don't really anticipate the Bengals

(37:56):
being like, ooh, well TJ. Watt signed, So now we
really got to open our.

Speaker 7 (38:00):
Check book up, right.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Yeah, So you talk about like not having a willingness
to move up seven mil. Right, So the reporting has
been that they've offered him twenty eight. So moving up
just say seven million dollars is to thirty five. Well,
that's kind of right in the middle. That's close to
where Danielle Hunter is, right, that's like right in the
middle of twenty eight and forty forty one. So why
can't they move up seven. I mean to me that

(38:24):
like saying they're not going to move up to seven,
reflects an amount of inflexibility that, while I understand their
position as it relates to trade, doesn't make a lot
of sense to me.

Speaker 8 (38:34):
So here's you brought up Daniel Hunter, and that to
me has been the one that has always been the
most comparable. They don't view Trey Hendrickson as Max Crosby
because of their reasons, right, And I don't know their reasons,
but we know that they don't view him as Max
Crosby because they haven't offered him that type of money.

(38:55):
I believe that if this, if this in March, would
have been a conversation and a number with a three
was presented to Trey Hendrickson, and I'm talking maybe even
low threes, like thirty thirty one, this would have been done.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
Really, Yes, two million dollars more than what they've reportedly
offered him.

Speaker 8 (39:16):
Yes, because again, and I've talked about this number of
times on your show, they start too low sometimes and
it just pisses people off because they view that as insulting.
It happened with t Higgins, it happened with Jesse Bates,
you know it's happened. I think that had the number
been higher, I think Trey would have been willing to

(39:38):
take a bit of a discount and it could have
gotten done at thirty million dollars a year.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
I think there's a lot of us who believe that
it's almost inevitable that this unfolds in the following way.
He doesn't show up for camp, he's not there for
the preseason, and then suddenly that last week there is
movement and he signs the deal right before they go
to Cleveland, and then he's like on a pitch count
before the first game. Is that invalid? Is that unrealistic?

(40:06):
Is that inevitable? What's your thoughts on that?

Speaker 7 (40:09):
Well, of course that's valid to think, right.

Speaker 8 (40:13):
I mean, this whole thing's been about money for Trey,
So who wants to sit out and lose a million
dollars a week on top of whatever he's going to
lose in total from training camp. It's fifty thousand dollars
a day. It's a lot of money, and Trey obviously
has made this be about money. But my point to
this has been Trey Hendrickson is one of the most
passionate athletes I've ever covered. You've heard people use the

(40:36):
term blackout Trey. He's emotional and this is very important
to him. And so what I'm curious is, does does
this get so nasty that he says, you know what,
I am willing to sit out a game. Because everybody
keeps saying he doesn't have leverage, he's under contract. Sure

(40:57):
they have a point there, but I think the Shamar
stuff is helping him even more in terms of leverage.
And I think that you're going to get to a
point that final week and he's really going to have
a decision to make.

Speaker 7 (41:09):
And it would not shock me. I'm not reporting that
he is.

Speaker 8 (41:13):
It would not shock me if he does decide, you
know what, I have the leverage, you need me more,
I'm going to sit out a game.

Speaker 7 (41:21):
It's that important to him. Football is really important to him.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, the Shamar Stewart thing. So we're not expecting a
resolution to this in the coming days.

Speaker 7 (41:30):
Yeah, I can.

Speaker 8 (41:32):
I'm going to check on it again in the final
hours of tonight, but I am ninety nine percent sure
at this time I can confidently tell you that he
will not be reporting tomorrow with the rest of the
Bengals rookie class and won't come. He's not even in Cincinnati.

Speaker 7 (41:48):
He's in Texas.

Speaker 8 (41:49):
He will not be in Cincinnati until talks progress to
the point that he and his representation believe it's time
to leave Texas. We think we're close, they are not
close at all.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
What we hear the language they're they're they're haggling over language,
and the language is they could void guarantees of certain
conditions aren't met. That basic language, to me strikes me
as something that shouldn't require that much negotiation to to resolve.

Speaker 7 (42:22):
But you just use the word and I don't know.

Speaker 8 (42:25):
I did a video on x for those listening that
want some more understanding and resolution to what's going on
with Shamar, because I know it's kind of complicated to follow.
Negotiation is the issue here, That's why things are stuck.
Shamar Stewart's representation side of things is that, yes, you

(42:45):
want to implement this new language. Sure other teams have it.

Speaker 7 (42:49):
We got it. Everything's covered with that.

Speaker 8 (42:51):
I know that's been a popular thing for fans to discuss. Well,
you know, this isn't something crazy that the Bengals want.

Speaker 7 (42:57):
It is new to the team. So Shamar's side of
things is.

Speaker 8 (43:03):
If you want us to take this language and set
a new precedent with us, even though we were drafted
a spot higher than Amarius Mimms and Miles Murphy, what
are you giving us in return? And the contract is
fully predetermined. We all know that about first round picks.
But they the Bengals could come to Shamar and his

(43:24):
representation and say, we're gonna implement this new language and
in return for you taking this, we're going to give
you your signing bonus in one payment.

Speaker 7 (43:35):
And we're going to do that for you so you
feel more confident.

Speaker 8 (43:38):
It's a negotiation, takes some, get some both sides have
to meet in the middle. I can tell you that
having talked to Shamar's side, they would be They're not
willing to say they would one hundred percent take it,
but they'd be more willing to have positive conversations if
that was the message that they were receiving from the Bengals.
And right now it has just been Bengals saying take

(44:01):
this or nothing.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yeah, So there is and I've talked about this week.
There is a part of me that wants to say
to Shamar, start your NFL career right, Yeah, and if
you really had a burning desire to play in Cincinnati
and prove people wrong that the pick wasn't good to
begin with because of the lack of sex. You know what,

(44:23):
You've played a game of chicken with the Bengals. You've lost. Okay,
they've dragged it out this long. If you really have
a burning desire to play and play at the highest
level this season, you would say, fine, you beat me,
you win the negotiation. I'm coming to camp, put the
contract in front of me. Is that an unfair way

(44:44):
of looking at things.

Speaker 8 (44:45):
No, I And that's why this is such a complex
situation because I can see that side, and I get
that point from Bengals fans, like do you want to play.

Speaker 7 (44:55):
Football here or not?

Speaker 8 (44:57):
But when you've worked your entire life for this one moment,
this contract, you don't know if you're going to get
a second contract in the NFL. Sure, I think that
things have gotten so sour. He almost is like, you
know what, you have to move before I do again.

(45:19):
I think that had things negotiations spend a little bit friendlier. Yeah, yeah,
it's like he doesn't feel that the team cares if
he's on the field, So his side is well, why
should I care if you don't care enough to move
on this contract?

Speaker 7 (45:35):
Well, why should I go out and sacrifice my body?

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Well, what's interesting about that to me? And we're going
to talk about other players on the team here in
a second, but what's interesting about that to me is
he says, you know, the team cares more about negotiations,
winning negotiations than games. I can kind of say the
same thing about him, totally, like Schamar, you care more
about winning this negotiation than you do getting on the
field and helping the Bengals win.

Speaker 8 (45:58):
Absolutely, that side is that side is fair, and that's
why they're stuck right now?

Speaker 1 (46:03):
So how long does this drag out? Are we talking
about this? In a month?

Speaker 8 (46:13):
I think that the Bengals will blink on either Chamar
or Trey by the end of training camp.

Speaker 1 (46:19):
By the end of camp, yes, so right before the
season begins, yes so, but another month and a half
of this is what we're saying.

Speaker 7 (46:29):
I think there's no have to have one.

Speaker 8 (46:31):
Well, right, exactly right, and that's why I think that
they will get it figured out with Shamar. I think
that one is an easier solution, and maybe after a
week of them listening to their fans complain, and a
week of seeing training camp without him, they are finally like,
you know what, we are going to wait to put

(46:53):
this language in next year, or we're going to give
you your signing bonus fully upfront you. I don't know
what the answer here is, but I think that one
of them will get done before.

Speaker 7 (47:07):
Training camp ends.

Speaker 8 (47:09):
But I think it's both getting done before that final
preseason game.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
And I will say this last preseason game is the
twenty third.

Speaker 7 (47:18):
Yes, I will say this.

Speaker 8 (47:20):
The people that are saying Trey Hendrickson doesn't need camp
like they can take their time, didn't we see that
last year with Jamar Chase. These guys need as much
practice as they can to get their bodies to the
top shape that they can be in, and the only
way you do that is on field reps. So no,

(47:41):
it shouldn't be just the Bengals, you know, kick their
feet back and just wait until the final week of
the season, because to win, which the team has struggled
to do in Week one against the team that they've
struggled to be at, the Cleveland Browns, it should be
of high emphasis.

Speaker 7 (47:56):
For both of these guys to be in training camp.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
As soon as possible one more quickly here, all the
second round picks now want guaranteed money because of what
the Texans and Browns have done. So how does this
going to impact Demetrius Knight, who was also yet unsigned.

Speaker 7 (48:10):
Right so checked in on that today and have yet
to hear back on that, So stay tuned on that.
But I believe that he.

Speaker 8 (48:23):
Will be more willing to take whatever the Bengals are
giving him to make sure that he is there tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
Yeah than rookies report tomorrow.

Speaker 7 (48:33):
Rookies report tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
So you think between now and tomorrow we could have
a Demetrio Okay, good, I do, despite there being I'm
sure some union pressure to be among the second rounders
who are like, dude, give me my full leventeen money.

Speaker 8 (48:44):
Actually, let me respond to that a different way. I
think by next Wednesday, by the first day of full
squad might not be tomorrow or but because they still
needed to see how some of these players, the ones
before him and after, but the one just after him
just signed, it might just take a day or two.
So don't freak out if it's not done tomorrow. But
if by Monday or Tuesday he is not under contract,

(49:09):
it's a big yikes.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
All right, I'm going to ask you about players that
are not Shamar Stewart. This is great, or Trey Hendrickson
or Demetrius Night when we come back. Kelsey Conway covering
the Bengals for The Inquirer and Cincinnati dot Com on
Twitter at Kelsey el Conway. She's with us for the hour.
I'm here till six. It's twenty minutes after four o'clock.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station twenty four

(49:34):
at for four. This is ESPN fifteen thirty mo Igor.
Kelsey Conway from the Inquirer and CINCINNTAI dot Com is
with us, hanging out for the hour in studio. Bengals
training camp starts next week, also on top of cincinnai
dot Com. One of the hosts of Good Morning Football. Yeah,
I loved my favorite show. I love that turned it

(49:54):
on one morning. There you are.

Speaker 7 (49:56):
Should I add that to my Twitter bio?

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (49:58):
Okay?

Speaker 7 (49:58):
I would you know how people do Emmy Award winning
TV host radio. You know there is a one time
there is a former.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
I'm trying to figure out the best way to put
there is a former. Area television and radio personality who
years ago was on TV and David Letterman was doing
this bit on TV where he was like flipping around
and they stopped on this guy for like a minute
and a half and he put on his bio as

(50:27):
seen on the Late Show with David Letterman. So if
he could do that, all right, you could do Good
Morning Footballer. Yeah, yeah, no question about it.

Speaker 5 (50:37):
All right.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
So training camp is going to start. We got to
start to get answers to questions like have they done
enough to fix the defense?

Speaker 4 (50:44):
Now?

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Obviously, Trey Hendrickson and Shamar Stewart, who I said I
wasn't gonna mention, and Dimitrius Knight, those three players are
going to have a lot to do with whether or
not that gets answered. But do you think they have
done enough to make the defense league average? No?

Speaker 8 (51:00):
I was, and I know that they had an idea
in mind that you were only going to be able
to fix so much in free agency, and the draft
was going to be a big part of their overarching
plan to fix the defense. I just don't think that
they did enough on the defensive line at the edge

(51:25):
position and even an extra interior defensive tackle spot and safety.

Speaker 7 (51:32):
And I'll even put corner in there.

Speaker 8 (51:36):
I think that the fact that the only two free
agent additions were Orrin Burke and TJ. Slayton on the
defensive side of the ball in free agency not enough.
And you know, we knew that they weren't going to
be able when they decided to pay T. Higgins, like
they weren't going to be able and to be into
like the Milton Williams sweepstakes, you know, paying twenty plus

(51:58):
million that was my dream come true.

Speaker 7 (52:01):
Was well, you would have had a sacrifice t Higgins
for that.

Speaker 8 (52:06):
The defense was so bad last year in like so
many critical areas that just thinking that these two people
plugged in are going to fix it.

Speaker 1 (52:19):
T J.

Speaker 8 (52:19):
Slaton's going to be a big help in the run game,
but even with Trey Hendrickson, the pass rush wasn't good enough.
So then you draft Shamar Stewart hoping that he can
he can fix that, but he's still a little bit
of a project. Like I think I would have liked
but I think I would have liked to see them
add one one more edge rusher, maybe like a ziz
Ojulari from you know the Giants, Like one more that

(52:43):
you knew could maybe get you three or four sacks,
you know, just like get yourself a rotation of five
or six good edge rushers. And then we're talking about
the edge rusher group. Is we recognized that was an
area of weakness. Same thing with safety. I think Al
Golden's going to make a couple of these players better. Yeah,

(53:03):
but Geno Stone thinking he's going to be able to
consistently dominate for seventeen games sam as Jordan battle without
any competition. Those two positions, edge rusher position and the
safety ones are the two for me where I just
it's hard for me to say that they have taken
a step forward on defense because of those two positions.

Speaker 1 (53:26):
Here's what I want to know about Genostone. They asked
him to take a pay cut. He said yes. What
if he would have said no? That tells me if
he says no, they have a plan be behind Genostone.
Why couldn't they keep Geno Stone and add Plan B.
That's the question.

Speaker 8 (53:42):
And the weirdest thing about it is we haven't heard
Al Golden, Zach Taylor, Douke Toobin talk about Dejon, Anthony Tyson, Anderson.

Speaker 7 (53:54):
It'd be one thing if they had a third that
they were talking up and they believe it can be
the case.

Speaker 8 (54:00):
Third, we have no idea right now if Jordan Battle
or Genostone got hurt, god forbid in training camp what
they would do there. So it's just a weird deal
that they didn't address it in the draft or uh.

Speaker 7 (54:16):
In free agency. Yet of course that they still could.

Speaker 8 (54:18):
But I'm not really buying that the free agent safety
class was that bad that you can't have one.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Of them on the roster again, like when we were
talking about they made Genostone take a pay cut. Look, man,
I watched Genostone last year. I'd be cool if that
guy's not on the team this season, like he was awful,
but fine, they're showing confidence in him. But then after
they express confidence in him by not cutting him, they
say take a pay cut. Now to me, if you're

(54:45):
asking someone to take a pay cut and they say no,
there has to be fallout from that. There has to
be a consequence that the consequence is, well, Gino, if
you don't take the pay cut, surely it's not. Well,
we're bumping Dejon Anthony who's played i think seven NFL
snaps and say safety, we're bumping him up on the
depth Charter Tyson Anderson, who's never played in the NFL
at safety. He's there hadn't have been somebody they were

(55:07):
going to sign. Why why couldn't you still sign that guy?

Speaker 8 (55:11):
I don't know, And that's that's why it's one of
the biggest mysteries and every time we kind of ask
about it, it's not really a dressed head on. So
it's something that I planned to ask Duke Tobin and
Mike Brown about next Monday at Mock Turtle Soup because
it's such an important position and we're all still sitting

(55:31):
here wondering what's going to happen there, Like we don't
even have time to talk about the fact that they
need a veteran corner you know, in the mix there
like they did last year, but because we're so focused
on safety, because it wasn't fixed and the other areas
that weren't fixed.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Well, the thing about corner is I had I think
there's upside with a lot of those guys totally. I
think if there was a position I think you and
I may have talked about this when the season, and
if there was a position where you said, you know what,
run it back with these guys, it was that. I
mean a lot of early round draft choices, players who
have shown glimpses. I think you could have done what
they have done and added I don't think it had

(56:10):
to be either or I would have had no issue
at all if they said Camp Taylor, brid Josh Newton
at all. These are our corners. We like what we've
done here, but you know what, we're going to add
a veteran to the mix for competition for insurance policy.
For some reason, the fact that they have left that

(56:30):
position group go unaddressed. I certainly hope it works out,
and I believe that unit's going to be better because
I'll drink the al golden kool aid. But how you
don't add one more who's been there before is something
that I've been scratching my head about for months.

Speaker 8 (56:42):
Well, it's go back to the Super Bowl year and
the year after when they added Eli Apple. Sure, when
they added him, you were not thinking this guy could
end up being a really important piece. Eli Apple was
a really important piece to what they did down the stretch.
I know, you know, people like to crack jokes about Eli.

Speaker 1 (56:58):
Apple, but if he's worth best corner, that's good, right.

Speaker 7 (57:01):
Exactly A veteran who had known the system.

Speaker 8 (57:05):
How is there not a fourth like the veteran We're
not we're not saying this person should come in and
take Cam Taylor Britt and DJ Turner and Dax Hill spot.

Speaker 7 (57:14):
But you can't tell me.

Speaker 8 (57:15):
And Dak Taylor says it like, you can never have
too many corners, So why would it not be in
the everybody's best interest? And also it's a really young
room just to have someone from a leadership standpoint, there's
no Mike Hilton there anymore.

Speaker 7 (57:29):
There's no Cheeto, right.

Speaker 8 (57:31):
Yeah, it's one of those things where to me, it's
a no brainer and there's nothing that could go bad
if you added another legit veteran cornerback who might be
on hist like let's talk about Stefan Gilmour or someone
like that, you know, who brings a little bit of
a swag and just like a respect level. I think

(57:52):
that that's something that if they might be waiting for
to see roster cut down weekend, you know who gets cut, Sure,
but there are some safeties and corners are out there
that are waiting that it's not really adding up why
they're not being added to.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
The team all right, now, hang Tight Kelsey Conway from
Good Morning Football and the Cincinnati Inquirers with US Cincinnati
dot Com. Kelsey L. Conway on Twitter twenty eight from
five sports headlines coming up as well on ESPN fifteen
thirty Cincinnati Sports Station Lifetime Power, Trained, Protection and guaranteed
credit approval from their family to Yours for Life Kelsey
chev dot com. Reds are in Queen's Tonight's take on

(58:30):
the Mets, first of a three game series. Kelsey Conway
huge Reds fan Nicolotolo on the Hill tonight seven to ten,
first pitch seven hundred. WLW has the game. Shan and
Iah throws for New York starting lineup this evening. Friedel
McClain and Ellie Hayes's and left field steers at first
Noelve Marte is playing third base and batting six. Tyler
Stevenson DH Tonight Travino is catching, and Santiago Espinall's playing

(58:53):
right field and batting nine. Florence Yawls are home for
the Mississippi mud Monsters and FC Cincinnati in route to
Salt Lake City U taugh to take on Real salt
Lake tomorrow night at nine thirty. That match can be
heard starting at nine on ESPN fifteen thirty. Kelsey Conway
from the Cincinnati Inquirer and Cincinnati dot Com is here

(59:13):
on the eve of Bengals rookies reporting to start training camp,
which begins in earnest next Wednesday. We have a lot
to talk about. Still, you were the one media person
who successfully predicted the Bengals would take Dylan Fairchild. So
he's going to be one of the starting guards.

Speaker 7 (59:31):
Right, I should add that to.

Speaker 8 (59:33):
My Twitter, I mean, good morning football host and correct
Bengals third round draft picker.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
You've got to own your wins man, no doubt about it.

Speaker 7 (59:44):
Yes, it is supposed to be a started help me
the guy.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Is it a real competition or is no? Is the
other guard of a spot a real competition?

Speaker 7 (59:52):
Right guard?

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (59:54):
I think so. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
It is like a real competition or a competition in name.

Speaker 7 (01:00:03):
I think it's a real competition in that. I'm not sure.

Speaker 8 (01:00:10):
I think they think Lucas Patrick is gonna be the guy,
but A he needs to get through the training camp
healthy and be like he needs to outright show that.
I think that they like Cody Ford as the swing.
I think that's the ideal situation for him, but.

Speaker 7 (01:00:31):
It's so it is a competition.

Speaker 8 (01:00:33):
Obviously, Lucas Patrick is in you know, in control of it,
but I still think he's a little bit too unproven
for us to just go ahead at this point. Dylan Fairchild,
I'm ninety nine percent confident will be the starting left
guard at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Pro Football Focus ranks the Bengals offensive line is second
from worst in the NFL. Really yeah, I found that
a little shocking. Not shocking, I found a little surprising.

Speaker 7 (01:00:57):
That's a bit low for me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
I could not agree.

Speaker 8 (01:01:00):
Because we don't even talk, because there's just so many
other things that grab headlines with this team. We don't
even spend enough time talking about how good a Marius
Mims was last year.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
I think they have three good offensive linemen. I think
Ted Carris is a fine player who will benefit from
not having to clean up as many messes to his
left and to his right. And I think Orlando Brown
is fine. These might not be all pro caliber players.
When you have those three guys, I think it's almost
it's really hard for me to imagine the line would

(01:01:34):
be the second worse than the league.

Speaker 8 (01:01:36):
I agree with that, I would have liked to see
them do more at the guard position, no question to
make that so that we don't have any questions about it.
But second worst, I mean, I think that if you
and I were having this conversation in at the end
of January next year, I think there's going to be
a lot of teams with worse offensive line.

Speaker 7 (01:01:56):
I agree than the Banks.

Speaker 8 (01:01:57):
If those five play the season, Like if we're having
to talk about them replacing Orlando Brown junior, you know,
that would be another story.

Speaker 7 (01:02:07):
But I think that's that's too low.

Speaker 8 (01:02:10):
I think that they we don't know if the guard position.
I still think that they should have added one. And
I say that now like they still should add one
in the next month. I think that they could have.
I know that they said that the guard class wasn't
awesome and free agency, but I still think it goes
back to our thing about like safety and corner Like
the more you have to choose from that have at

(01:02:32):
least snaps in the NFL, the better.

Speaker 7 (01:02:34):
So two second worst is too low for me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
I mean, you know you mentioned a Marius Memes. I
think we all walked away from his rookie season going
that's a dude, Like that's a building block and is
there still a little experienced gap. Sure, but who watched
him last year and thought they whiffed?

Speaker 7 (01:02:54):
Nobody?

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Nobody?

Speaker 7 (01:02:55):
He was terrific last season, outstanding.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
Are they going to carry four running backs?

Speaker 7 (01:03:03):
I think so, knowing how this roster has been the
last couple of years. The Zach Moss.

Speaker 8 (01:03:12):
Signing to me again this year was a little bit
interesting just because where is his place with Samaj and
then Brooks?

Speaker 7 (01:03:24):
Like where is he?

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Like?

Speaker 7 (01:03:27):
Where do you see him taking away snaps?

Speaker 8 (01:03:29):
Because they'll tell you Samaj we need him on the
field for blocking, and you know he knows the system
inside and out. So are they going to be taking
him off to put Zack Moss on? And then they
I think Brooks actually a really good player. I know
he's your favorite player. I think that you don't sign
someone like that in free agency and then cut him.
So I think that will lead us to believe that

(01:03:51):
all four of them. I mean, they signed Zach and Somadre,
like why would they then turn around and cut them?

Speaker 7 (01:03:57):
So I do think they will carry For I know.

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Mike Yasiki is technically a tight end, but he's really
the third wide receiver. Absolutely, But Let's let's put him
under the tight end category. Okay, then who's the third
wide receiver? Andre is good enough?

Speaker 7 (01:04:14):
It doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Is it good enough if something happens, including to a
guy who has missed a lot of games in recent years.

Speaker 7 (01:04:24):
I think because I want to go two ways with
his answer.

Speaker 1 (01:04:29):
Okay, let's let's say T Higgins had to miss a game. Obviously,
Andre Yoshabas is not T Higgins.

Speaker 7 (01:04:35):
Do you have Mike Yasiki? That's how I would answer that.
Then yes, he's fine.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
All right, fine, there's nobody lower on the depth chart
that could push and we like Andre Yoshabas, we do.
I think there's a sense among a lot of people
he's maybe maximized his NFL.

Speaker 7 (01:04:52):
Well, I think that's a totally fair point.

Speaker 8 (01:04:54):
I think that they're missing that fourth and it should
be Burton, right, it should be.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
You.

Speaker 8 (01:05:01):
Just I do think that they're missing that up and
coming dude, like a third round pick. I mean, like
we're still talking about what does Charlie Jones bring to
the table, Like they're missing that fourth or fifth receiver
who maybe was taken in the lower rounds or maybe

(01:05:23):
you took him in the third or fourth round, that's
like super dynamic that they have something you know you're
going to get out of them, even if they need
to build the rest of their skill set. I think
that is a conversation. Do they have that young and
up and coming guy And I think to them, they're like, well,
we don't need it. But I see what you're saying
with If t Higgins or Jamar Chase is out, who's

(01:05:45):
their third receiver?

Speaker 7 (01:05:46):
And is that good enough?

Speaker 8 (01:05:48):
And I just think if they have Mike is Sicky
and at least one of Jamar and Tea and you
can sprinkle in some Yoshi, I think that's okay, but
I would I'd like to see them have a really
solid four.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Yeah, I'm rooting for Jermaine Burton because I'm a human
being and I root for human beings. I asked the
root for cool stories, and I think it would be
I've said this to some of your peers, like, there
would be nothing neater than to have somebody have written
the Jermaine Burton story at the end of the year,
where you go, this guy was a total screw up
on the verge of you know, maybe not being an
NFL player, and he figured it out and he got

(01:06:24):
his life together and he came to work and they
found a way to use him special teams in the offense,
and he ended up being a productive member of this team.
I unfortunately, because I defer to your track record, I'm
not betting on that happening, but I'm rooting for it too.

Speaker 8 (01:06:40):
Well, just quickly, I wanted to point out the story
because I think it's important to talk about.

Speaker 7 (01:06:47):
Good things when they happened.

Speaker 8 (01:06:48):
Draft weekend, I was the Bengals allow us to use
their cafeteria and I got to the facility early on
a Saturday.

Speaker 7 (01:06:55):
The draft starts early on a Saturday.

Speaker 8 (01:06:57):
And I was only one in there and Jermaine was
in there and we were both waiting at the grill
line and I looked at him and I'm like, Heydremayne,
how are you doing? And He's like, good, how are you?
And I was like, oh, you're here on a Saturday.
And he looked at me and he was like, got
to keep the schedule the same. And it was the
most he's ever talked to me. And he had been
there for a full season, looked so much more engaged, confident,

(01:07:21):
and just like almost at peace. And I just think
it's important to bring that up because it seems like
he's made some strides and I know, just like Joe
Burrow says.

Speaker 7 (01:07:31):
Sure, you know, he's got to keep doing it, but
I just got to start.

Speaker 8 (01:07:34):
Someone wanted to bring up that story because it seems
like the things that he's doing to try and help
him be able to execute what the Bengals want from
him and to be able to get him in the
best position to be able to succeed, it seems like
he's doing some things that have helped change him.

Speaker 7 (01:07:52):
And I just wanted to tell that story.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
That's good because it does. It does have to start somewhere,
and he has earned all the skepticism that's going to
come his way as it relates to his place on
this team, but it does have to start somewhere. One
more last year, Evan McPherson was six of twelve forty plus.
Is that going to be rectified?

Speaker 7 (01:08:16):
We are not talking about that piece. Enough has to be,
has to be.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
Because if not, he's just another kicker, right, He's not
a weapon.

Speaker 8 (01:08:26):
Well, and we talked to Darren Simmons a lot about
it at the combine, and his big point to us
was he really felt like the operation yeah long snapper
holder wasn't good enough and that Evan really needs consistency
and for the first time in three years, they're going
to have the same right, you know. And he seemed

(01:08:50):
to think that in addition to some things that Evan
needed to fix on his own, that is really going
to help Evan's production. But it is absbsolutely one of
the five biggest storylines for this team is what is
Evan McPherson going to be?

Speaker 7 (01:09:05):
And did we see the best of him? You hope not, but.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
Yeah, he's got a lot to prove. He was drafted,
when he was drafted and became what he became. Look,
he made clutch kicks. That goes without saying, but it
was here's a weapon you could use, and we can
bring this guy in the field to bang home a
fifty four yarder instead of going forward on fourth and six.
It informs how you call plays, It informs how you
game plan, Like in the absence of being able to

(01:09:29):
do that, he's just a regular kicker. They didn't draft
him and extend him to be a regular kicker.

Speaker 7 (01:09:36):
Can I ask you, if you were in charge of
the team, would you bring.

Speaker 1 (01:09:40):
In competition for of course, I don't think. I don't
think Evan McPherson. I don't think any player should be
ever immune to having somebody compete with them, particularly a kicker.
Right now, I would hope Evan would beat the kicker
out right, that's the idea they've invested in him. I mean,
he's meant a lot to this franchise. But I a
player who in their position performed similar to the way

(01:10:04):
Evan McPherson performed in his last year would probably have
competition brought in from outside.

Speaker 8 (01:10:10):
Well, and look what happened at the punter spot, right, Yeah,
you you didn't know anything about Ryan Rico and then
he beat out Chrishman and long, look they got a
decent punter out of it. A competition could help at
every position and maybe ye, well, and maybe it could
just bring out an edge and Evan, like Evan is

(01:10:30):
so happy, go lucky, and I don't think I've ever
seen Evan McPherson have a bad day.

Speaker 7 (01:10:36):
And yes, but you know, maybe it.

Speaker 8 (01:10:41):
Could bring out the edge and him and get him
back to whatever he needs. From a mental standpoint, I
think that it would benefit him to just bring in
another kicker like you said, you're expecting Evan to beat
him out, but I'd bring in competition and I think
that Evan Pearson and you won't be able to gauge

(01:11:01):
it during pre season.

Speaker 7 (01:11:03):
Evan McPherson is on a big storyline.

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
For this year.

Speaker 4 (01:11:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
I was talking with a buddy of mine yesterday and
I said, I was going to bring this up to
you because it is the part of the off season.
You know, there's always the cliche like nobody's talking about this. Literally,
haven't heard anybody ask about Evan McPherson since he got
hurt at the end of last year. Yeah, so it's
it's got to get better. I can't thank you enough
for doing this.

Speaker 7 (01:11:23):
Thanks so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:11:25):
We bother you periodically during the course of the season
and we'll do there. Do you like mock turtle soup? No, okay,
I don't know anybody who actually does. Mike, you're a
picky eater, so I guess the answer was going to
be no. Sherbert.

Speaker 7 (01:11:40):
Sure, it's like a three course meal situations, so we get.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
Amazing Sherbert sounds good. Who doesn't like Sherbert, Well, enjoy
the Sherbert And UH can't thank you enough. I'm sure
we'll talk during training camp and we'll we'll be there.
We're broadcasting from training camp.

Speaker 7 (01:11:55):
I can't wait.

Speaker 1 (01:11:56):
It's going to be exciting. It's going to I don't
really know. I don't know how it's gonna work, but
it's going to be exciting. It's going to be fun.
I've wanted to do this for years, so we can't wait.
Awesome Kelsey Conway. Read her work in the Cincinnati Inquirer
and Cincinnati dot Com and follow her on Twitter at
Kelsey L. Conway. And when are you gonna be on
Good Morning Football again?

Speaker 7 (01:12:16):
I don't know. I hope so, I hope they asked
me back. Yeah, I would love it.

Speaker 8 (01:12:19):
It was a great experience. So grateful that I got
the opportunity to do it. So I think it would
really help if the Bagels.

Speaker 7 (01:12:25):
Went I run, Yeah, then maybe they'd be more willing
to have me on.

Speaker 1 (01:12:28):
I like that NFL network me too.

Speaker 7 (01:12:30):
It's a shout out Jamie Rartall she's an awesome host.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
She does very good job hosting that show, no question
about it.

Speaker 5 (01:12:37):
All.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
Right, Brendanman and Jones on Baseball is next on ESPN
fifteen thirty, Right, on that. What's up? Seven? Wow, we're late.
Don't know how to stay on time. This is ESPN
fifteen thirty seven after five Mikeelo Ultra five o'clock Happy
Hour thanks to michelob Ultra, Superior Taste, superior light beer.
Grab a nice cold Mick Ultra. Whatever you're doing this weekend,

(01:13:00):
enjoy and ice cold Mick culture, and please enjoy responsibly
good stuff. From Kelsey Conway of The Inquirer and Cincinnati
dot Com. A few thoughts on some of the things
that she and I discussed coming up here in just
a bit. FC Cincinnati is on the road tomorrow against
Real Salt Lake. Max Bretaus from MLS's and pass on

(01:13:22):
Apple TV has the match and he is going to
join us in twelve minutes between now and then. You know,
we could we could squeeze in a phone call or
to Mike. Go ahead, what's up, Greetings, Mike, how are you?

Speaker 5 (01:13:39):
It's Friday?

Speaker 1 (01:13:40):
I know you're good, very good. I'm always good, but
even a little better on Friday.

Speaker 3 (01:13:46):
Yeah, I talked to you, Mike. Go home, nice and
hot outside the pool. Pop a cold one big, are
You're good?

Speaker 1 (01:13:56):
Ballgame on? That's the only thing you missed everything else.
You outline perfectly.

Speaker 3 (01:14:00):
H I love to give the Okay Cowboys, here we go. Yeah,
I'm looking at the Reds right now. I'm looking at
the teams we've got to deal with here to overtake.
Half of them have significantly better team pitching, and half
of them have significantly better team pitching, want pitching and hitting.

Speaker 5 (01:14:26):
That that that that concerns me. Now do you how much?
How much? How much do you think luck has to
play in all sports?

Speaker 1 (01:14:39):
Uh? I think more than is accounted for by the
average fan.

Speaker 5 (01:14:46):
How about team sports compared to monomano?

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
Uh, probably team sports luck is more of a factor
than Monomno, That's what I thought today.

Speaker 5 (01:14:58):
And I got a guy got in a rule with
me about it. She just wasn't making any sense. And
how can you talk about you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:04):
Got one on one.

Speaker 3 (01:15:07):
Or you got five on five and nine on nine
and eleven on eleven or whatever?

Speaker 6 (01:15:12):
I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
Like, if you're if you're in a fight, a mono
e mono fight, like you may get your tail whipped,
but then you deliver one knockout punch and you win
the fight. That's not necessarily lucky. But you know, maybe
the better word is randomness. I think there are certain
team sports that lend themselves to randomness more than the others.

(01:15:35):
I think baseball certainly does, certainly the postseason. But you know,
I think luck is a factor in life. I think
timing is a factor in life. And I think those
two things are factors when it comes to competitive sports.

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
Oh yeah, timing for sure. Now, I didn't get to
hear all of Kelly and Kelly and I like her
a lot. Kelly and Conway really enjoy her.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
Well, it was it was Kelsey Conway, who is a
market a different person than Kelly and Conway.

Speaker 5 (01:16:03):
Oh my god, Now see, why do you Jesus to me?

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
I didn't look, I know, because I didn't want anybody
who's just turning us on to go. Wait a minute,
why didn't MO have Kelly and Conway on. Kelly and
Conway is a different person than Kelsey Conway, and they
operate in two different realms. One will never appear on
this show, the other appears regularly.

Speaker 5 (01:16:26):
Okay, well, when you're seventy three, you'll get things messed
up a little bit too.

Speaker 1 (01:16:30):
I get things messed up all the time. I was
just clarifying for those who were just turning us on.

Speaker 5 (01:16:35):
Well, I really appreciate that. Hey, I forgot what I
was gonna say. So you have a great weekend and
I'll talk you okay.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
Mike, Thanks, thanks very much, Thanks very much for the
phone call. Well minutes after five o'clock, Mike was talking
about the Reds and the wildcard race. Look, they they
have to play at a quicker pace than they have
played to this point this season. The Reds biggest winning

(01:17:06):
streak this year is five. Now, they're not necessarily gonna
have to go on an eleven or twelve game winning streak.
But you know, they haven't gone on one of these
long extended win streaks. And they also haven't gone through
some long extended losing streak as has been often documented
throughout the first half of the season. They haven't yet
been swept in a series. And if you're never swept

(01:17:28):
in a series, you're not gonna go on some prolonged
losing streak. And that's really good. But they're playing. They're
fifty and forty seven. They haven't been more than four
games above five hundred this year. They haven't been fewer
than four games below five hundred this season. They're gonna
have to pick it up their They're gonna have to
pick up their pace, quicken up their pace, I guess

(01:17:49):
is what I was looking for. They're gonna have to
pick up their pace, and they're gonna have to have
some things go better for them in the second half,
like they have to play better against the teams that
are ahead of them in their own division. You know,
we did the thing the other day where we kind
of went through the remaining schedule in the second half.

(01:18:10):
The Reds right now, by a winning percentage, have the
toughest remaining schedule. They have a lot of games against
the Cubs, they have a lot of games against the
Milwaukee Brewers, and they have a handful of games against
Saint Louis Cardinals. The Reds have not played well against
those teams this season much less. You know, they're got
to play the La Dodgers six times, and they have
six against the Mets, including the series they have this weekend.
They have to play the Phillies again. Philadelphia took two

(01:18:32):
out of three from them out East. Toronto's good. They
have a series against the Blue Jays, and they've played
pretty well against better competition this year, but they haven't
played very well against teams in their own division, and
there's a lot of games in the second half against
teams in their own division that has to be better.
There are certain areas of the team that just must
be better this season. We have focused a lot this

(01:18:54):
week on the two spot. Matt McClain. To me, if
we were to hand out superlatives for the first half
of the season, which many have, I don't think it's
unfair to say that Matt McClain was the most disappointing
player in the first half of the season. Two years ago,
he was the best player the Reds had in a

(01:19:17):
smaller sample size, he played in eighty nine games. He
was the best player in a year where we saw
the Reds call up Elie Devila Cruz, and we saw
them call up Cees and Noelve Martin Andrew Abbotten, Will
Benson emerged. The best player in the team two years
ago was Matt McClain. The Reds told you how they
feel about Matt McClain. They traded for Gavin Lux, didn't

(01:19:37):
put him at second base. Matt McClain stayed there opening
day lineup. Matt McClain, despite not playing last year batting second,
he fell flat on his face. That has to change. Look,
the most likely outcome for the season is that Matt
McClain continues to hit second, at least until the trade deadline.

(01:19:58):
The production from that that spot in the batting order.
Like we a week ago, tonight, Austin Hayes took a
beating it deservedly, so frankly, he had a terrible game.
Took a beating for the zero for five, the four
strikeouts and the double play he hit and two and
the fact that three times the Rockies in that game
walked Ellie dela Cruz intentionally and Austin Hayes couldn't make
him pay for it in either of those instances. Yes,

(01:20:22):
behind Elie Delacruz, you're looking for more protection. No, on
a really good team, I don't believe that Austin Hayes
is batting fourth. And it's worth pointing out TJ. Friedel
had a good first half. The pace slowed kind of
toward the end, but had a good first half. They
need more guys on base in front of Ellie de
la Cruz. They need to put a manager in a
position where if he wants to walk Ellie dela Cruz,

(01:20:43):
now he's gonna have to deal with multiple guys on base.
They gotta come up with more RBI opportunities for Ellie
Dela Cruz, Matt McLain, and again it's not to pick
on him. We love Matt McClain, or at least we
want to love Matt McClain. He's got to be better.
There are others on this team, by the way, including
Ellie Dela Cruz. Like the first month and a half
of the season, we kept talking about how the Red's

(01:21:03):
biggest star needs to be their biggest star. Now he
was terrific in the second half of the first half.
He's gotta be great in the final two and a
half months. This team is going to have to pick
up its pace and do so with Your guess is
as good as mine as to when Hunter Green's gonna
pitch again. They've got to do it with their team
is currently constructed. Like we all talk about the trade deadline,

(01:21:26):
twelve of their next sixty seven games are between now
and the trade deadline. Pretty significant sample size. They need
more from Tyler Stevenson. They need, you know, obviously more
from the first base position because they haven't gotten that
much this year. They need better health I will I

(01:21:47):
will say two things that I think are both true. One,
it is a failure if the Reds don't make the postseason. Two,
the odds are not in their favor and for good reason.
In order to not be considered a failure, they have
to defy the odds. That's a tough position to be in,

(01:22:09):
but it's one of their own doing. FC Cincinnati bounced
back and played great against Miami that the other night.
Can they keep the momentum going tomorrow night in Salt
Lake City. The guy who has the call for Apple
TV joins us next teen thirty, Moeggers. So we talked
on Monday how so much air came out of the
balloon for FC Cincinnati, not just with them losing, but

(01:22:32):
the way they lost who they lost to. I think
on Wednesday night they put all the air back in
a dominant performance against Miami, a brace for Evander. Now
the Orange and Blue heads out on the road. They'll
be in Salt Lake City tomorrow night for a game
against Real Salt Lake nine thirty late night soccer. You
can watch it on MLS Season Pass, on Apple TV,

(01:22:52):
and on the call not only a play by play
voice for Apple TV's MLS Season Pass. But the host
of the soccer og, Max Brent Toss, is with us.
It's awesome to have you, Max. I appreciate the time.
Good afternoon, how are you?

Speaker 4 (01:23:08):
I was good mode, but even better after that wonderful intro.
Appreciate it. And yeah, stay up late night with us
on mlscons tasts on a Saturday. That's some good weekend plans.

Speaker 1 (01:23:18):
It's good. It's especially good when you play as well
as FC Cincinnati did on Wednesday, spearheaded by the work
of Evander Lionel Messi got a front row seat to
watch Evander play on Wednesday.

Speaker 6 (01:23:29):
And those are the two best, the two top MVP
candidates right now, and hard to see anyone denying Messi.

Speaker 4 (01:23:39):
As influential as he has been. Not to mention in
the name recognition.

Speaker 6 (01:23:42):
I'm sure that's going to sway voters, but I would
be hard pressed not to give it to a Vander.
It's just you expect to see him do these incredible
things in this five games. Seven goals over five games,
just steady, important goals, attractive goals, and it's just it's
been a joy to watch him. It's a joy to
watch him because you know, I've covered him, I've just

(01:24:03):
seen him smile and he's just in a really happy spot.
It's it's great for c Cincinnati, it's great for our
league because this is a this is a big star
who could be doing this in so many places, and
I can assure you clubs in Europe and Brazil are
taking notice. But hopefully he's happy in MLS and sec
F C Cincinnati makes him a whole and this is

(01:24:24):
a relationship that continues for the foreseeable future.

Speaker 1 (01:24:26):
Well and when we were kind of paying attention to
what ended up being the end of Lujo Acosta's time
in Cincinnati, I didn't think there would be any singular
player who would make us stop talking about him, and
a Vander did that almost instantly.

Speaker 6 (01:24:41):
It's amazing. I mean, he really is a one in
a million when you go out there. And it was
a perfect scenario when I remember in the offseason, we've
never seen that in MLS to have, you know, these
two elite number tens with this new apparatus where you
can do cash for trades aka transfer for players internally
in Major League Soccer, and immediately we had these two

(01:25:03):
massive moves. Lucho Acosta who was tremendous for Cincinnati. He
clearly wanted to change. He was able to get to
FC Dallas. They you know, dropped a big offer there
and then Cincinnati until.

Speaker 4 (01:25:16):
Made that to Evander.

Speaker 6 (01:25:17):
And you know, I had my guard up with Evander
because I think there was a there was something, There
was something incomplete in what he was and what he
was having here, and I think whatever it was in
FC Cincinnati, and you know, I had a.

Speaker 4 (01:25:33):
Pleasure of poties and games there. It's remarkable on the
fan base.

Speaker 6 (01:25:36):
They were spectacular on Wednesday in that Miami game, as
they have been all seasons.

Speaker 4 (01:25:40):
Maybe that's been fulfilled a bit, but this was this.
I don't see any other player that could have done that.
This was the guy.

Speaker 6 (01:25:45):
I guess there was some risk, and there has to
be some risk involved because you wanted to see if
it didn't work out in Portland, how could it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:53):
Be better here?

Speaker 4 (01:25:53):
But it has been better and this is I mean,
it's I don't know if you get better than this.

Speaker 6 (01:25:59):
This is just a per moment where you're able to
PLoP this guy in there and he has made everything clicks.

Speaker 4 (01:26:04):
It's it was like the final piece of a jigsaw puzzle,
and you know.

Speaker 1 (01:26:07):
How this works across all the sports. You know, a
general manager or a coach with a successful track record,
you start to defer to them, And I think a
lot of us when it comes to roster decisions, when
it comes to player acquisition, I think a lot of
us are starting to do that, and understandably so. With
Chris Albright and.

Speaker 4 (01:26:24):
Pat noonan yeah, and the whole Luco Acosta situation.

Speaker 5 (01:26:28):
You know, there's some unpleasant moments, no doubt about it.

Speaker 4 (01:26:32):
Some of it leaked out into the news with the back.

Speaker 6 (01:26:34):
And forth with Chris Albright and Pat Noon and Lucho Acosta,
and I think that's also.

Speaker 4 (01:26:41):
A good learning lesson because Chris.

Speaker 6 (01:26:42):
You know, it's still very early as his Pat in
their careers away from the sport off the field, So
I think that was a good lesson of a player
relationships and how to manage it because you know, everything's
going great with the Vanner, but maybe things, you know,
things aren't always going to go as well as a
half for Cincinnati as they certainly did against Columbus, and
they fix that immediately. But this was an opportunity to

(01:27:05):
see how it worked for a young front office and
I imagine things that they saw with Lucco. They're to
hope to handle it a little differently with a very
similar South American big time star who's proven in MLS,
which is another big part of it because you always
take a risk when you bring in a player like this,
but you knew he came to MLS and was successful

(01:27:27):
at Portland. He put up great numbers, so that takes
away some of the risks. So that all goes into
the pot for these guys. And I think Chris o'lbrid
and Pat Noon are gonna be better off as professionals.
So they'll probably be the first ones to tell you
that having gone through this process.

Speaker 1 (01:27:41):
The top of the Eastern Conference is brutal. And you
know that match on Wednesday night was significant because it
was a six point swing for FC Cincinnati and Miami.
I know they've lost recently. It feels like Philadelphia never loses.
We know how good Columbus can be. We've watched Nashville.
How do you handicap top of the Eastern Conference?

Speaker 6 (01:28:02):
It's it's it's different words, I guess from a neutral
from for me being out here in West it's it's
wonderful theater because there's gonna be a really really good
team that finishes fifth and probably a really good team
that finishes sixth that are going to you know, have
to hit the road for that opening round of the playoffs.
So that's going to make the race for the top
four exceptional. I think that's what you really don't want

(01:28:23):
to be left out of. You want to finish first
or second, but you definitely don't want to finish fifth.
And right now, if you look at I think Inter
Miami's in fifth place and that's stunning. They just had
a five match winning streak. Messi was scoring well ten
goals are it was is unbelievable, and that's still not
good enough to get him into the top four.

Speaker 4 (01:28:39):
So uh, you know, I've watched this league from the beginning.
I can't remember as top.

Speaker 6 (01:28:44):
Heavy in recent years, as that the West is is
certainly lagging. They might be able to catch up by
season's end, but those teams have been really good. I've
had a chance to see them all into individually. Uh
it's I think the best way to handicap it and
will be really exciting when that secondary market opens on
the twenty fourth of July to see what those five

(01:29:06):
to six teams do, and I think Cincinnati unfortunately, their
hands are tied.

Speaker 4 (01:29:11):
They'll do something, but they won't be the Bigcauzazz.

Speaker 6 (01:29:14):
They did that with Evander and Kevin dean Ka already.
But you know, if they can find someone that can help.
I mean, they've done nice with some of the peripheral moves.
I wouldn't even say picking up Kai Kamara has been
a really nice move and that just shows you how
smart these guys are for Cincinnati, which will give them
an edge, but the season all matters when they're in
the playoffs because Cincinnati has not made that Cup or
the big game really, so this is there's an opportunity.

Speaker 4 (01:29:36):
Unfortunately for them, They're gonna have a.

Speaker 2 (01:29:37):
Lot of company.

Speaker 6 (01:29:38):
But I'm gonna be curious to see what those six
teams do. We're already hearing rumors about or not rumors
or some reports about what.

Speaker 4 (01:29:44):
Interer Miami is planning on doing.

Speaker 6 (01:29:46):
So that's going to obviously be the team that out
of the bunch will be viewed as the team to be.

Speaker 1 (01:29:52):
All right, let's stay in the Western Conference and talk
for a second about the team that I've seen Cincinnati
plays tomorrow. Real Salt Lake, a squad that has played
better recently. If you're Pat Noonan, what worries you about them?

Speaker 6 (01:30:04):
The A that they're playing their best soccer A or
B that they're completely healthy then everyone's back from international duty.
I mean I called their game Wednesday in Portland and
Palo Mastreni, their coach, got to bring in.

Speaker 4 (01:30:18):
Whatever he liked off the bench.

Speaker 6 (01:30:20):
He had the exact profile of a player to jump
in as the number nine, and that guy contributed on
the game winning goal. To bring in a fullback, to
bring in a central midfielder, they have three, they have
four really good central midfielders.

Speaker 2 (01:30:33):
Now.

Speaker 6 (01:30:34):
They are so good that they got to loan out
Nelson Palasio to a Swiss football because they're covered enough
and he's going to have a problem trying to get
all these players in. But they're playing their best soccer
of the season, without question.

Speaker 4 (01:30:46):
Unbeaten in five.

Speaker 6 (01:30:48):
This is a huge win for them because this would
put them into those playoff positions pretty firm. And I
think they're looking at a Cincinnati team that is going
to be I mean, they're not going to take Cincinnati lightly,
but Cincinnati have as you pointed out, and Mo had
a Crazy.

Speaker 4 (01:31:01):
Week, Hell is Real and then Inner Miami.

Speaker 6 (01:31:05):
And that said, I think if Cincinnati can come out
of here with the result that would be as impressive
as what they did against Inner Miami at Altitude short week.

Speaker 4 (01:31:14):
I think this would be one of those moments where.

Speaker 6 (01:31:15):
You go, Hey, Cincinnati, that's a that's a that's an
eye opener, that's a result for them. But on the
flip side, I think Rayle felt Lake saying we're doing well. Uh,
let's let's put in a masterpiece here and head into
the All Star Break as the hottest team potentially in
the Western.

Speaker 4 (01:31:30):
Conference and with a big win over one of the
best teams in the league.

Speaker 1 (01:31:33):
Yeah, two teams coming in playing I think at their
best so far this season. Max, have a great call
tomorrow night. Thanks so much. I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:31:40):
Bo have a great weekend, and we'll see you soon
in Cincinnati.

Speaker 1 (01:31:43):
You got it. There you go tomorrow night. MLS Season
Pass Apple TV. Max Brentass has the call, and he's
also host of the soccer og podcast, which this soccer
newbie enjoys immensely. It's five thirty on ESPN fifteen thirty.
Lines are open five one, three, seven, nineteen thirty eight,
seven two three seven seven six. Let's talk agents after

(01:32:04):
sports headlines. Next kines are a service to Kelsey Chevrolet
Home of lifetime powertrain protection guarantee credit approval from their
family to yours for life, Kelsey chev dot Com. I
just I saw somebody on Twitter was tweeting about the
basketball tournament to TBT, I guess we don't have a

(01:32:26):
UC or Xavier related entrant in this year's event, which
means I don't have to pretend a care. The Rads
played a night in New York against the Mats seven
to ten. First pitch seven hundred. WLW has the game
four to ten tomorrow one to ten on Sunday. Nickoldolo
and Sean and I are your starting pitchers. I'll get

(01:32:47):
some sort of nasty correspondence because because of that. I
went to some of those games and they were fine.
There there were some making it out, like when the
UC guys played the Xavier guys like it was gonna
be like some real Skyline Chile Crosstown shootout and didn't
like neither team even win their first game last year.

(01:33:08):
Starting lineup for the Reds Tonight in Flushing stand by TJ.
Freed I'm looking at my TVT TVT press release starting
lineup tonight. FRIEDA. McLain, Dela Cruz, Hayes steer it first.
Marte is a third base betting sixth Stevenson DH's Travino

(01:33:29):
catches Santiago Espinal. I have no idea why I whispered that.
Santiago Espinal just sounds like the sort of name that
sounds good when you whisper it. He is playing right
field and batting ninth Reds or two and a half
games out of the last wild card if you care.
There was a game earlier today Cubs and Red Sox,

(01:33:51):
with Chicago winning the first game of the proverbial second
half by a score of three to one, sorry four
to one, snapping Boston's ten game winnings. Florence yaws Or
Holmes and I to host the Mississippi mud Monsters, and
as you just heard with our guy Max Brentoss, FC,
Cincinnati's on the road tomorrow with a game for a

(01:34:12):
game against Real Salt Lake. You could also listen to
it on ESPN fifteen thirty. Pregame coverage starts at nine o'clock.
We have talked exhaustively about Shamar Stewart, and I feel
like we're going to talk even more about Shamar Stuart

(01:34:36):
and Chamar Stewart's agent has taken a lot of criticism,
and I think a lot of it is deserved for
how Chamar and his camp have handled this entire contractual ordeal.
From Chamar maybe not signing the waiver to work out

(01:34:57):
during mini camp to Chamar still showing up at many
camp and blasting the team, to some of the comments
that have come from Chamar's dad, to some of the
comments that have come from Chamar's agent. The agent itself
has taken some criticism. That's all well and good, but

(01:35:20):
there's something about knowing who you're going to be working with,
like if you're running an NFL team and you're looking
at draft prospects. By the way Shamar Stewart said when
he was drafted he didn't even remember meeting with the Bengals,
it would appear that it is likely the Bengals really

(01:35:42):
didn't do exhaustive homework on Shamar Stewart, didn't bring him
in for a top thirty visit, and it feels like
maybe they had no real good idea of who they
were going to be working with. Like it's one thing
to say Shamar Stewart or its agent's a bonehead, or
Shamar Stewart's agent is not doing right by his client,

(01:36:05):
or Shamar Stuart's agent lacks professionalism. I'm not sure anybody
has really said that, but if you feel that way,
that's fine. Ultimately, it was the Bengals who, when they
drafted Shamar Stewart, chose to get into business with Shamar
Stewart's agent, Like, you know that, right when you draft
the player, you gotta work with his agent. So we've

(01:36:27):
talked about whether or not the Bengals have done their
homework as it relates to Chamar, and that's fair. And
you know, we've all wondered, like, when he finally shows up,
is he actually gonna be able to shed the label
of not being able to finish plays? And that's that's
a very fair question. Hopefully we get those answers soon
because hopefully the guys is playing for the Bengals soon.
But if one of the hang ups is well, the agent,

(01:36:48):
it's Chamar's agent, Chamar's agents, it's his fault. He's screwing Schamar,
he's gumming up the works. It's the agent's fault. That's cool.
You chose to work with the agent by drafting Schamar Stewart.
You chose to work with and engage in a relationship
with the agent. That's on you, man, Like, you gotta

(01:37:08):
know who you're working with. Call it signability, call it
whatever you want. You gotta know who you're working with.
Is this somebody who we're gonna have a tough time with?
Is this somebody who is maybe not gonna help push
the player and our franchise closer to coming to an agreement.

(01:37:30):
Is this somebody who's really gonna play hardball? Is this
somebody who's going to negotiate in the in the media
and negotiate publicly when we would prefer the negotiation happen
in the background. I'm not saying that, like, if you
know these things about the agent, that you don't draft
the player, But in the in the process of gathering

(01:37:51):
information about the player, which it kind of feels like
the Bengals could have at least done a little bit more,
kind of might you kind of might want to learn
some things about the agent and gather whether or not
this is a guy we're gonna be able to work with,
And so you could pin this on Schamar's agent if
you want. And I'm at the point that I want

(01:38:12):
to tell Shamar or Stewart like, dude, the Bengals are
beating you in this negotiation. Yes, you don't want to
sign for guaranteed money that they could take away. Yes,
there's been some reporting from Jeremy Fowler on Fox nineteen
with Jeremy Row last night, a conversation between two Jeremies
that they're in essence asking him to take a pay

(01:38:32):
cut relative to the guy who was taken with the
seventeenth overall pick last year. I understand it. I don't
think that's kosher, But dude, the Bengals are gonna dig in.
Do you want to start your NFL career or not?
Do you want to be prepared to help this team
year one or not? Show up and sign? Show up
and sign. And if you want to say that, the

(01:38:54):
reason that that's not happening is his agents, the agents
the problem here. That's fine. If that's the case, that
doesn't absolve the Bengals of blame, because it's their responsibility
to know who they're going to be working with, who
they're going to be negotiating with. I cannot imagine. And
I've never owned an NFL team, nor will I ever.

(01:39:16):
I cannot imagine you're running an NFL franchise and you're
doing your homework leading up to the draft and you
don't find out about the guy you're gonna be working with,
who is not a total unknown. He's represented NFL players before.
It's not like he's some guy who emerged from the
shadows and has never represented an NFL player before. So

(01:39:40):
I want to tell Schamar, and I've talked about this
all week long, like, dude, just sign the damn contract
and have a great next five years. If you're great
for the next three, they're gonna pick up the fifth
year option. But have a great next five years and

(01:40:01):
go into free agency and decide I'm not gonna play
for the Bengals anymore. I'm gonna go somewhere else and
I'm gonna stick it to the Bengals.

Speaker 4 (01:40:08):
Do that.

Speaker 1 (01:40:09):
But if your agent is the problem, well then the
Bengals should have done a better job of preparing for
who they were gonna be working with. Sixteen away from
six o'clock, five, one, three, seven, four, nine, fifteen thirty.
This is ESPN fifteen thirty Cincinnati Sports Station. Happening in
the NBA right now, ten away from six. This is
ESPN fifteen thirty. What's happening in the NFL is the

(01:40:32):
Bengals start training camp next week and we've we've talked
about this a lot this week as we're excited about it.
On a day excuse me, day one of training camp,
we'll be we'll be broadcasting, because you know that's what
we do. We're beyond from camp in the morning training
camp this year, obviously the practices are in the morning.
They're they're redoing everything in an effort to change things

(01:40:53):
up and get off to a better start. So the
Bengals obviously start zero to two every year. They don't
want to do that, and so they're thinking, hey, let's
practice in the morning now or something. So we'll be
there at practice while the Bengals are practicing, we'll be
on the air. I don't know specifically what we'll be
allowed to do. I don't know specifically if, like you know,

(01:41:15):
something cool happens in practice, if we'll be able to
describe it for you, like in real time, or if
we have to wait ten minutes or something, but we
will be there from Bengals training camp on Wednesday morning
from ten am, and we're gonna do this on ten
different days during training camp, including Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday
if next week. This will provide no interruption into the

(01:41:37):
normal ESPN fifteen thirty schedule, which you know and love.
So we'll be on from ten to noon. Tony Pike
and I would call it the Tony and Moo Training
Camp Show, and then noon Tony will take over with
Austin and do Sincy three sixty and then I'll drive
to Kenwood and take about a two and a half
hour nap and then I'll do my show at three o'clock.

(01:41:58):
So bonus covering on ESPN fifteen bonus local programming on
ESPN fifteen thirty starting at ten am for ten days
during training camp. And when I say ten days, not
like ten straight days. Obviously there are days where the
Bengals have a day off, or they're traveling for a
preseason game, or they have a preseason game, and so

(01:42:19):
they'll be sprinkled periodically throughout training camp. But we are
pretty stoked and gracious that the Bengals have allowed to
do this, because God knows they could say no. But
I think it's gonna be personally a lot of fun,
and more important, I think it's gonna be you know, good,
good content, mainly because Tony will be there. God knows
it ain't gonna be because of me. So make sure

(01:42:43):
you're with us at ten am on Wednesday the twenty third,
and carrying forth throughout much of Bengals training camp, including
next Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. That's gonna be a ton
of fun Bengals training camp. There's tons you know, Kelsey
and I talked about this. I'm glad she confirmed what
I said. Kelsey Conway was here last hour. There's lots

(01:43:06):
of stuff that has to be fixed and changed and
sorted out over the next couple of weeks. You know,
let's be honest, we're not gonna know if the Bengals
have significantly fixed their defense during training camp. We might
see signs, and I hope we do, but we're not
gonna know until they start playing teams in games that matter.
And we're not gonna know definitively whether or not the
offensive line has a chance to be pretty good until

(01:43:28):
we watch them play games that actually matter, and maybe
we get larger clues than usual because more starters are
gonna play in the preseason. But there's lots of stuff
that's got to be figured out. One of the things
that has to be better this year is the kicking operation.
I asked Kelsey about this. She said, one of the
top five storylines, one of the top five question marks.
Evan McPherson was a terrific draft choice of the Bengals.

(01:43:52):
They drafted him. They drafted a kicker because he wasn't
just an average kicker. They drafted him because he's a
wat or he's supposed to be. Last year, when he
was healthy and he only kicked in twelve games, Evan
McPherson was not a weapon. He was just a kicker.
He was a guy who made all of his kicks

(01:44:13):
from inside forty which you would expect an NFL kicker
to do. And he was a guy who was a
shaky proposition forty and beyond six of twelve in distance
from forty plus, and I believe it was three of
seven kicks longer than fifty yards. That has to be better.
It has to be better because Evan McPherson will probably

(01:44:36):
line up to try to make one of those kicks
in a huge situation. It also has to be better
because it can go a long way toward determining how
you call plays, how you design offense, what you do
on fourth down, what you do in the punt game.
Like it's it's Evan McPherson has made some of the
most iconic kicks in this franchise's history, and he's come
up clutch in so many moments. But to me, what

(01:44:58):
makes him special is he has the kind of leg
that is supposed to have, the kind of leg that
can make the sort of kicks that other kickers are
not capable of making. And so another team might have
to go for it on fourth and four, you know,
when they're let's say the other team's thirty six yard

(01:45:20):
line and the Bengals can go you know what, we
don't want to take on that risk here. We'll put
McPherson on the field, we'll get points out of this,
and we're good. Not that he's going to make one
hundred percent of those kicks, he's got to make a
higher percentage. And Kelsey and I talked about that they
brought in no competition for him. Hopefully he stays healthy

(01:45:41):
this year, but there's lots of different and really interesting
things about this team, and lots of storylines and lots
of moving parts. As training camp begins, getting some clue
as to whether or not the kicking game is going
to be better for this team. Ryan Rico is good
putter and talking about it being the field goal operation

(01:46:02):
as a whole, and I think there's some validity to that.
But Money Mac has to be more money this year
than he was last season. We're pretty much done. Don't
forget anything you might have missed. You can go listen
to on the iHeartRadio app podcast of this show. Our
a service of long Nex Sports Grow with three locations
in northern Kentucky. Ain't no better place to post up

(01:46:22):
on a warm summer, even indoor or out. Don't forget
since he three p sixty comes your way at noon
on Monday. We return Monday at three oh five. Thanks
to Drew Wester Heidi for producing pinch inting for Taran Bland.
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Mo Egger News

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Mo Egger News .css-1q01m3q{margin:0 0 -2px 0;}

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