11/7/25 - The Mo Egger Show w/ Ken Broo

11/7/25 - The Mo Egger Show w/ Ken Broo

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 4 (00:09):
You found Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
You are going to be grossly disappointed if you tuned
in today thinking that moegger would be here. Moeger Mo
doesn't have a game of BORI doesn't have a game Saturday,
so he's taken a long weekend, and fortunately or unfortunately
for you here you are stuck with me. Yes, I
am ken Brew and believe it or not, And it

(00:38):
might come as a shock to some of the younger
end of the demo. I actually did this for a
living for forty five years and continue to do so
on WLW on Sundays at least, if not other days.
The Bengals never stop being the Bengals. You know that.
I know that the Bengals never stop beinging the Bengals.

(01:01):
Trade deadline comes, trade deadline goes. Trey Hendrickson's still here. Now.
There is a distinct line of thinking that you never
give up on the locker room. You never tell the
locker room you have no chance to win. You never
raise the right white flag. It's not fair to the
others that are in that locker room. That's one line

(01:24):
of thinking. Another line of thinking is this team is
going nowhere and Hendrickson is going someplace somewhere at the
end of this season. Why not, why not? Why not
at least look to the future. Now, I know, I know, stop,
just calm down. I understand when you say, why should

(01:47):
we give better or more draft picks to a group
that can't seem to draft to save their lives? But
this defense is historically bad, you know what, I know it.
Just look at the stats over the life three weeks.
Steelers had three hundred and ninety six total yards, one
hundred and forty seven of those yards on the ground.

(02:07):
The Jets had five hundred and two total yards, two
hundred and fifty four on the ground, and the Bears
the Bears. The Bears had five hundred and seventy six
total yards, two hundred and eighty three of which came
on the ground. But yet no changes. We go to

(02:28):
the bye week, We enterre out of the bye week.
Next stop is a game at Pittsburgh a week from
this coming Sunday, and we have no changes save for
Logan Wilson, who had found the bench more than he
found any place else. Yes, they're going with youth at linebacker.
It's kind of strange you ever think about that they're
gonna go with the kids at linebacker, yet they want
to hold on to the end that they might have

(02:50):
been able to get something for had they elected to
trade him at the deadline. Nevertheless, no changes on the field,
Zach Taylor said this week, No changes in his coaching staff.
These are good football coaches.

Speaker 5 (03:03):
They've been successful everywhere they've been and so again, we're
still in the first half of the season. We all
know we got to play better as a football team.
There's been challenges or offenses faced over of course the season.
We worked through them. We're playing better for it. There's
challenges are defense they're facing right now. I'm confident that
we're going to work through it. We're going to play
better football and find a way to win some games.

Speaker 1 (03:23):
Find a way to win some games, find a way
to win some games. Right now, the Bengals are three
and six. They got eight games to go to get
to ten wins. They got to go seven and one
over those final games, seven and one to get to
nine wins, which might be the threshold. I don't know.
I mean, who knows how things play out. Nobody operates

(03:44):
in a vacuum. And you tell me what kind of
health the teams like the Ravens and the Steelers are
going to be in in December. You tell me the
kind of health that the Bengals will be in come December,
and then maybe I can give you an idea of
exactly how I think the season plays out. Let's just
say seven and one? Does Does Cincinnati go seven and

(04:06):
one with a schedule that features at the Steelers home
with surprising New England at Baltimore on a short week
Thanksgiving night? Then after that following Sunday at Buffalo, back
home to play Baltimore again at Miami late in December,
then a game at home against Arizona, then a finale

(04:28):
at home against Cleveland. Do they go seven and one
with that schedule? Do they go six and two with
that schedule? There bumps along the way for that team.
Currently they're in eleventh place. Seven teams make it. They're
in eleventh place right now, And of course all of
that changes because we don't know who are going to win,

(04:48):
which teams are going to win these divisions, which teams
are wildcards, what the tie breakers are. It's a fools
game really to get into it at this point. But
my point is the Bengals never stop being the Bengals.
And although I think they'll probably get some sort of
compensation for Trey Hendrickson when he walks the compensatory picks

(05:11):
and the formulas that are going there, that can make
your head explode at this point, if you try to
think about it, you just wonder what the thinking is
inside the office. If it's just a more emphasis on tackling,
does that change the narrative over these final games? Just
change the way we go about tackling. Somebody asked Cam

(05:31):
Taylor Britt that in the locker room earlier this week.
Cam Cam Taylor, Cam Taylor Britt, what is it with
all the mistackles?

Speaker 6 (05:39):
Bring your legs, man? I think that's the biggest thing.
With a lot of mistackles and rubs, one step closer
to the tycle. I think now you can shoot it,
you know, as fast as it's possible in everything, but
the arm tackles don't work in anyone as the NFL.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
Well, he may want to practice what he preaches because
right now the Bengals, particularly in their secondary can't tackle. Now.
I don't know how you teach tackling in the middle
of a season. I don't know how you practice it
in the middle of a season. Teams are reticent to
go full bore in any practice. This ain't training camp,
and even in training camp, it's not the way it

(06:14):
used to be. We saw that this team had difficulty
tackling in the preseason. We saw it in the exhibition
games they played. I know that's OG terminology for exit
for preseason games. They're exhibition games, and we saw that
they could not tackle. Can't fix it midseason. You can
talk about technique, you can talk about positioning. When you

(06:37):
get out on the field and everything starts accelerating at
not thirty miles an hour, but one hundred miles an hour,
that's when the trouble begins. And so here they enter
this final stretch of games at three and six, statistically
still with a chance to make it. Pittsburgh leads the division.

(06:57):
Pittsburgh is a shaky division leader. They go to the
Left Coast this weekend to play the Chargers, then they
welcome in the Bengals. Then they got to go to
Chicago and after Chicago, they get Buffalo and Pittsburgh, and
then they go to go to Baltimore. That's not exactly
an easy road. They get Miami just like the Bengals do.
Miami is a complete disaster. But then they got to

(07:19):
go to Detroit. Then they have to go to Cleveland,
which is always a difficult matchup for them, for anyone
really inside the division. And then they finished with Baltimore,
shaky shaky division leader in Pittsburgh. Baltimore's got Lamar back.
Baltimore has to go to Minnesota this week. Then they

(07:39):
get Cleveland at home and the Jets at home. Those
ought to be manageable wins for them. Then they get
the Bengals, then they get the Steelers, now home for
a while, then they come here. Then they go home
and play New England at Green Bay and Pittsburgh. Tough
way to finish up, but a forgiving schedule. None the
least all division leaders in the National Football League have

(08:03):
at least six wins, except the five two to one
Packers and the five and three Steelers. That's where we stand,
and we're told, you know what, it's we just got
to rededicate ourselves. We've got to tackle better. We have
to put more time on task. We just have to
stop getting or as we were led to believe last

(08:24):
week and misaligned on big plays. This is an offense
that scored thirty three, thirty eight and forty two in
the last three weeks. Thirty eight against the Steelers, thirty
eight against the Jets, forty two against the Bears. They
lost two of those three, and everybody says, well, you

(08:45):
know what, they can distribute the ball. Jamar just needs
the ball. Just throw it at Higgins he's hot. Look
at Flacco, he's picked this up in the last couple
of weeks. Yeah, yeah, Well that's true. But there's a
difference between being able to score thirty three, thirty eight,
and forty two each week and having to score thirty eight,

(09:09):
forty two and thirty three points to win. Can you
count on that every week? Can you count on that?
And so here we sit at the bye week. We
look at a team that is a sieve defensively. We
look at a team that stood pat at the trade deadline.
Other than the Logan Wilson deal. We watch other teams

(09:33):
around the Bengals pull off significant acquisitions at the deadline.
Look at what the Ravens did. And yet we're led
to believe hold on to Trey Hendrickson, hold onto him.
Understand the message that goes to the locker room. You're
not waving the white flag. They're holding onto him. But
what are they doing. I mean, everybody on, everybody within

(09:57):
the sound of my voice, as we say in radio,
understand that Trey Hendrickson is done here at the end
of the year. He didn't want to stay. You're not
going to slap a franchise tag on him. Try that.
See what happens if they try that. He wants out,
he wants to go somewhere where he's going to get
a long term count contract, and it's obvious that's not

(10:18):
in the mix here in Cincinnati. So you hold on
to him to what till the locker room. We're not
raising the white flag. That can be done. Look at
all those games we want at the end of last year.
Look at that we rally every season. What's going on
is there is just as I say, is that the
Bengals never stop being the Bengals. And of course at

(10:43):
their core is the draft, which again is a head
scratcher because they did not part with Hendrickson. And by
the way, this wasn't anything that came as a shock,
nor should it have been. I think most people knew
this was not happening. So you hold on to him.
But you know that the core of your team, the

(11:03):
core of your team has always been the draft. Why
wouldn't you want to accumulate picks? I know, I mean,
do we really want to trust the same people that
gave us Miles Murphy as a first round pick in
twenty twenty three, or Jermaine Burton as a third rounder
in twenty four, or it gave us a bus like
Jackson Carmen in round two of twenty one? Do we

(11:25):
really want to put more ammo in that weapon? But
that's your core. That's how you build. You don't knock
it dead with free agency. You don't. Hendrickson might be
the last big time free agent that they signed. They
just don't play the game that way. So it's very,

(11:46):
very confusing, And there's been mixed signals here all in
this last week or so about what this team is
and where it's going. It can all be fixed, is
what we heard. Cam Taylor Brett. Can all be fixed.
You just got to tackle better. Zax Hndler.

Speaker 7 (12:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Confidence in coaches, Yeah, you bet, you bet. We got
confidence in our coaches. It can all be fixed. Just
trust them. But what the hell is going on? It's
three sixteen in the afternoon. I'm so glad you're with us.
It's another terrific day in the tri State. No, we
had some rain early on today. Yeah too, at rain

(12:23):
like heck where I live. But it's a weekend, and
it's a good weekend. Bengals. Don't play, bear Cats, don't play.
Rest up, do the things you need to do, and
then jump back in it on Monday. But we're here
to help you get that weekend started in for Bogugre
today on ESPN fifteen thirty. I'm ken brew a lot
to get to between now and when we sign off

(12:46):
at five thirty for UK basketball, the Wildcats up against
Valparizo tonight. That is the matchup at RUPP and that
is the game you will hear right here on the
home of your Cincinnati Bengals, esp fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 8 (13:05):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center.

Speaker 9 (13:08):
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(13:29):
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Speaker 1 (13:34):
Right now.

Speaker 8 (13:35):
I'm at ezelic with traffic.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
This report is sponsored so right on Disco's Sounds of
ESPN fifteen thirty, I am simply the man at the Flagely,
I'm not at the man at the cools. Karen Bland
is at the control today. Nevertheless, welcome on back. No great,
we have great listeners here at ESPN fifteen thirty. My

(14:00):
buddy Brian Goldberg, who of course is the superagent, just
dropped me a text. He said, look, here's how they
can win the division. He said, they go They literally
sweep the rest of the teams inside the division. The
one game they have left with Pittsburgh, the two they
have left with Baltimore, and the finale against the Cleveland Browns.

(14:21):
You sweep those. You're five and one inside the division
and five and one inside of the division. I think
that would pretty much not only win the division. If
you go five and one inside the division, you're suddenly
at eight and seven, right, you're three and six. You
to throw you out then at eight and seven if
you won your division games, and then you'd have to

(14:42):
pick up wins against Miami, which should be a win,
Arizona would should be a win, and who knows about
the others. So yeah, I mean it's doable. It's just
have you seen anything over the course of the last
month that would make you say, yeah, yeah, there's a yeah, absolutely, u'sdoable.
But no, if they go five and one inside the division,

(15:05):
then yeah, we're having a completely different conversation here at
the end of December. You know, sports radio is interesting.
I've always found it intriguing because what you have to
do in sports radio and for television for that matter,
is have hot takes hot takes, which is like, throw

(15:27):
something out there, and even if it's not backed up
with any sort of stat or substance, people talk. That's
all ESPN is anymore. If you turn it on, it
it's four people sitting around a table, one of whom
is a woman. The rest are former athletes or Steven
a smith, and they just throw out hot takes about things. Now,

(15:48):
what about you know what about the Cleveland Cavaliers. Are
they constructed to win an NBA championship and they throw
out hot takes like this is November. People know whether
or not they're going to win an NBA championship doesn't matter. Tautic.
So I'm watching ESPN for God's sake. I have no
idea why. I must have really been been bored, but

(16:09):
I'm watching the show that's on in the morning. Mike
Greenberg is on it. They have some other rotating guests.
I think Rex Ryan is on it every so well.
And anyway, they had Adam Schefter on and so their
hot take topic was the Jets who have five number
one picks, five first round picks? Would the Jets trade

(16:31):
all five of their first round picks to the Bengals
to get Joe Burrow? And I'm sitting there listening to this,
and I'm thinking to myself, why am I listening to this?
This is utter nonsense. Greenberg apparently is a big Jets fan,
and so he was asking for a friend. And here's

(16:53):
what Adam Schefter said, Nobody, you know, nobody. I think
took this seriously. At least I don't think so. But
here's their NFL insider on this. Would the Jets trade
five first round picks to the Bengals to get Joe Burrow?
Like Mike Brown might consider that for like thirty seconds.

(17:14):
Just listen to there's schefter.

Speaker 10 (17:15):
Well, here's what I would say to you.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Right now.

Speaker 10 (17:17):
We have the New York Jets sitting here with five
first round draft picks, yes the next two years, with
the capability of doing whatever they want at the quarterback position.
We have the Los Angeles Rams sitting here this offseason
with two first round draft picks. We have the Cleveland
Browns sitting here this offseason with two first round draft picks.

(17:38):
We have maybe an extra quarterback in San Francisco. You're
raising a question about Joe Burrow. There's questions in Arizona.
We still are waity for Trevor Lawrence to prove himself.
This is a league that always has quarterback questions. This now,
as much as ever, feels like an arms race, with

(18:00):
teams positioning themselves to make big moves for quarterbacks whoever
they are, whenever they are. We saw this week that
anybody can be had We saw that teams are willing
to go nuts to get their guy, So why is
it going to stop there? When it starts there, it's
not going to stop, it's only going to increase. And

(18:21):
there are some teams out there that have some major
ammunition to go dangle to make things happen.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
Yeah, well it's not. Look, first of all, this team
is Joe Burrows Borough centric. He's under contract. Why do
they talk about these things? Is this Joe Burrow. It's
Joe Burrow centric. And the last thing Mike Brown wants
to do is pay five first round draft picks in

(18:48):
addition to his own first round draft picks, and the
amount of money that they would consume. It's just it's
it's it's nonsense to turn the rains over to who
The reason why the Jets want a quarterback because hey,
they never had one is be there's nobody that's coming
out that you look at it and say, wow, now
there's a guy. But that's what happens, and that's what

(19:13):
it is. You got to fill time, and that's what
people are talking about. But I thought that was so
absurd that I wanted to get that on just in
case you saw that and you were saying to yourself, Gee,
could that be true? No, it's not. Joe Burrow isn't
going anywhere, and I don't care how many first round
picks the Jets have. It's three twenty eight on this

(19:35):
Friday afternoon. In a moment, I'll be joined by Garrett
Podell's CBS Sports Winners, big winners, losers, big losers from
deadline Day, and how each of those winners and losers
look going forward. It is three twenty eight on this
Friday afternoon. It is ESPN fifteen.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
Thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 8 (20:01):
Traffic from the UC Health Traffic Center.

Speaker 9 (20:04):
The Lung Cancer Rapid Access Program at the UC Cancer
Center is built to give you a care plant fast
meet with a specialist in two days. Call five one
three five eighty five u CECC on southbound seventy one.
There's an accident over at Reading Road, northbound seventy five.
Another crash of this one is on the off ramp
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(20:28):
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Speaker 2 (20:33):
This report is I love this.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
Music that Terran plays. I feel like on the on
Cornelius at ESPN fifteen thirty, the right on disco sounds
and the smooth jazz that carries us all from the
last workday of the week straight on through the weekend.
You sit back, you relax, I'll pour the Cavassier UH

(20:57):
three point thirty five. Welcome back. It is a Friday
before no University of Cincinnati football game and no Bengals
football game, a at least locally football free weekend here,
which is a rarity, to say the least. I would
imagine the happiest guy about that. The happiest guy is
Dan Horde. He gets to stay home this weekend. He

(21:19):
gets to spend time with the fam, which is kind
of nice. Doesn't have to worry about planes and connections
and anything like that. So the deadline has coming gone.
We talked about Trey Hendrickson and just nobody expected him
to go anywhere. I think anybody that follows that team
expected him to go anywhere, because that's what the Bengals do.
But it is strange when you think about the Bengals,

(21:42):
the core of their belief on how to build a
football team is through the draft. It's not through splashy
free agent acquisitions. They really don't play that game. They
didn't this past offseason, and quite frankly, the last time
that they did was when they signed Hendrickson four or
five years ago. So it's not it's not their game.

(22:02):
But yet they could have traded hendricks in for more
draft picks as they look to rebuild the offense. So
you have to wonder what's going on there here. They
are three and six, they're two and zero inside the division,
and they have all of these division games yet to come.
They've got four left to go. They as I was

(22:23):
talking about earlier Brian Goldberg super agent listening, if they
let's just say that they split with Baltimore, which I
think is a realistic scenario. Let's say they split with Baltimore.
They they're five and one inside the division. Now that
gets them to eight wins, and then maybe you pick

(22:44):
up one against Arizona, one against Cleveland, one against Miami,
and all of a sudden, you're talking to ten win years.
Maybe that's what they're thinking, But over the course of
the last several weeks, there would be nothing that they
have shown us other than a propensity to score a
lot of points. Nothing they've shown us that they can
close games out and win games that even go to shootouts.

(23:06):
But it would appear they did win at least a
portion of the trade deadline before the deadline when they
got Joe Flacco away from the Browns, and according to
my next guest, that was one of the big winning
deals as the deadline approached and came and now went.
He is Garrett Podell, one of the great young sports

(23:29):
writers in America who writes and writes very well for
cbssports dot comed. He's going to join us right now. Garrett,
how are you on this glorious day.

Speaker 11 (23:40):
I'm doing great, Ken, Thank you so much for that
lovely introduction, and happy to talk trades and all things
football on a like you said, football free weekend in Cincinnati.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
Will you surprise, Garrett that the Bengals did not move
on from Trey Hendrickson knowing that at best now what
they can get for him is some sort of compensatory
pick when they figure that formula out at the end
of this current season. Or did most people, I think
in the media here thought that there was no way

(24:12):
in hell they were going to trade Hendrickson, and that's
why they said the price so high. But from the outside,
were you surprised that they did not move on from him?

Speaker 11 (24:21):
Yeah, I was incredibly surprised, Ken, And the reason why is, like,
what is the what is the game here?

Speaker 7 (24:28):
Like what's the long term view?

Speaker 11 (24:29):
You mentioned the draft, right, and Hendrickson is somebody who
you know, thirty one years old. He'd been awesome last
two years on BANFLM sacks last year.

Speaker 7 (24:40):
He's thirty one.

Speaker 11 (24:41):
I mean, if there was ever a time to sell
high on somebody, because clearly Bengals management has shown the
last two off seasons they value him, but not enough
to give him the multi year contract that he's looking for,
and that seventeen plus sacks each the last prior seasons
would indicate he's worth.

Speaker 7 (24:59):
So why not put him up for sale? Now?

Speaker 11 (25:02):
I'm sure you know you look at a team like
the San Francisco forty nine ers who down Nick Bosa
for the year, they lost their first round rookie Michael
Williams to an injury, and there's a number of teams
who could really use some past rush who I think
would have been very, very happy to call Cincinnati and
get a deal on Trey Hendrickson done. Because to your point,

(25:23):
about just getting a compensatory pick. They certainly could have
gotten more if they'd gotten a bidding war going maybe
a third, maybe a second if the bidding war really
got hot. So yeah, I didn't really understand it, especially
from a team that you know, likes to say, you know,
kind of like the Dallas Cowboys with their salary camp
management got this pie.

Speaker 7 (25:43):
We only have so many slices of pie.

Speaker 11 (25:44):
If you have somebody only so many slices of pie
and you don't want to allocate it to your thirty
one year old all pro edge rusher, then what's the
point of keeping him around.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
So I.

Speaker 7 (25:55):
Was very puzzled.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Yeah, they hate dead cap money, they I mean, they
it's it's it's a new world out there in the NFL.
But it doesn't mean that the Bengals operated in the
new world. They have, you know, from time to time
fielded teams that have surprised people. Is certainly the Super
Bowl team and the team that went back to the
AFC Championship Game a couple of years ago. I think

(26:17):
that surprised a lot of people. But the fact of
the matter is, I'm looking at them sitting at three
and six, and I think the threshold for playoff conversation
is nine wins, and it's probably not enough. You know,
the AFC North is a little bit different than what
we all thought it would be this year. But if
you've got to get to nine wins, you've got to

(26:37):
go six and two and you're remaining eight games, and
if it's ten, you've got to go seven and one.
Now that's a tall task. That offense isn't going to
score thirty three forty two whatever they at thirty eight
over the last three weeks. It's not always going to
do that. I just that's why I was a little surprised. Okay,
you're holding on to Hendrickson. Is it because you think

(26:58):
he got a chance? And then you look at reality
and the chance of that chance is not very good.
I think that's where I struggled with this a little bit.
But as you look at them at three and six, realistically,
what do you see for them, knowing that they still
have a lot of division games left? I mean, is
this anything you look at and say, hey, you know what, yeah,

(27:19):
that could happen.

Speaker 7 (27:21):
You make a great point.

Speaker 11 (27:22):
I honestly think it's probably gonna take ten wins to
get a wild card. Because you look at the current
standings right now, the bottom two teams that are in
at the six and seven right now as it sits
today are the six and three LA Chargers and the
five and three Jags out of Jacksonville. So yeah, I
certainly think probably ten is gonna do it. And you
look at their schedule to your point, Okay, after this

(27:45):
bye week at the Pittsburgh Steelers. They did upset Pittsburgh
in Cincinnati, you know, but they were set to face
the Packers the next week, a really important game career
in Rodgers, so maybe you know, last time, potentially the
Steelers may have overlood the Bengals.

Speaker 7 (28:00):
That won't happen again this time.

Speaker 11 (28:01):
After that home against New England, that's the current AFC
East leader. That's a tough game at the ravens now
Lamar Jackson back, so obviously they're a very different team
Bills after.

Speaker 1 (28:11):
That, that's a short week gart that's a Thanksgiving game.

Speaker 11 (28:15):
That's right, And then after that at the Bills not
an easy place to play in December against a solid
Bills team that just beat the Chiefs, and then again
against Baltimore at home. I mean, they're just next five
games out of the by I mean that they would
be fortunate, honestly to just have a winning record. Three
and two in those next five would be awesome for them,

(28:36):
And like you said already at three and six, three
and two in their next five would probably sink their season.
So yeah, it didn't really make sense to me. Either
you pay Hendrickson now or you trade them. But yeah,
kicking the can the next offseason, to me is a
worst case scenario for the Bengals.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
You think the Colts getting Sauce Gardner was the number
one trade deadline deals? Certainly from the from the Colts standpoint,
they got Gardner, but I mean the Colts paid a
horror a very high price for that. I mean two
first round picks. They either liked Sauce Gardner a lot,
thought they needed somebody that brought his talents to their team,

(29:13):
or they felt bad for the Jets. But I mean,
two first round picks for a cornerback. It seems pretty steep.

Speaker 11 (29:19):
Yeah, I hear you can, and certainly it is steep.
And so my rankings, I kind of ranked them from
the lens of quote unquote most impactful. So I felt
that this move was the quote most impactful of the
season at the deadline for the falling reason, I mean,
the culture. Even after their ugly loss to the Steelers

(29:40):
last week, they're seven to two and still the number
one seed in the AFC. Offense is scoring the most
points in football, but defensively they really needed help. Their
twenty sixth in pass defense, twenty ninth and third down defense,
and dead last and passing yards per game allowed. Outside
the numbers, Sauce Gardner is an outside corner twenty five
year years old. I agree the position of cornerback typically

(30:03):
doesn't age well after thirty, but Sauce is twenty five,
and also he's forced a tight window throw on fifty
two percent of his targets this season, the highest rate
of any player targeted at least twenty times and coverage
per Next Gen Stats, So he's actually.

Speaker 7 (30:19):
Having a pretty solid year.

Speaker 11 (30:20):
The Colts defense, particularly the past defense, their biggest weakness.
So I thought a number one overall seat at the
moment as we sit here today, showing up their best
weakness with an All Pro player who's twenty five, who's
having a solid season, I felt, yeah, like that was
the most impactful move of this tread deadline.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
You mentioned another trade that I thought was a trade
that had to be made. The Steelers' secondary is it's
a fire drill. It's not very good. I'm not sure
they have smart players back there. But they picked up
Carl Duggar from the Patriots and all it cost them
was a sixth round pick, which seems like an absolute steal.

(30:58):
I'm just wondering, does how much does that help that
secondary that has had some injuries and that at times
plays bonehead football. Kyle Duggar, I mean, I don't know
what kind of player he is. I don't know whether
or not he's a locker room guy or a cerebral guy.
I read would people write about them but about him?

(31:19):
But I mean, how much of an impact do you
expect him to make?

Speaker 7 (31:23):
I think he can make a high impact.

Speaker 11 (31:25):
I think the Steelers kind of lucked out because Kyle
Dugger wasn't a quote unquote scheme fit for what Mike
Rabel wanted to do defensively on the back end of
that defense.

Speaker 7 (31:37):
And so you mentioned they only had to give up
a sixth round pick.

Speaker 11 (31:39):
They actually Pittsburgh also got a seventh round pick back
in return, so they didn't net lose a draft pick,
even they just moved down one round and also got Dougger.
So yeah, I thought it was a really great trade
for them because Deshaun Elliott, who they probably view as
their most reliable safety that they have right now, he
suffered an injury against the Packers last week, and so

(32:02):
they really had a significant need at that position, and
so yeah, and it paid immediate dividends. Six takeaways against
the Colts, who I just mentioned number one seed, and
I think a lot of that has to do with
him helping the Steelers secondary be in a much better position.

Speaker 7 (32:18):
So I don't know if.

Speaker 11 (32:19):
They're going to generate six takeaways every week, but to
only allowed twenty against the Colts a week after they'd
allowed thirty four points per game across Week seven and eight,
I mean, that's a big deal and I think could
make a really big impact for a Steelers defense that
tier point has been horrendous on the back end for
a lot of this year.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
You list the Ravens acquiring Draymont Jones from the Titans,
and again, the Ravens have been decimated this year, and
Lamar Jackson is back, They've been playing a little bit
better the last two weeks. They got wins, but they're
not generating any heat on the quarterback. And that's just
I mean, that was what they were known for in Baltimore.
So here they get Draymond Jones from the Titans and

(32:59):
they just give up a conditional fifth round pick in
next next year's draft. Draymont Jones should upgrade that. Do
you think it's going to be an upgrade where people
now start fearing the Ravens in their pass rush again
or is he something other than that?

Speaker 7 (33:16):
That's a good question, Ken, I mean, yeah, they were.

Speaker 11 (33:19):
They're tied for the second few of sacks as a
team eleven third lowest quarterback pressure right in the league
twenty seven point three percent.

Speaker 7 (33:25):
Certainly massive need. Like you said, Jones has been.

Speaker 11 (33:30):
Hot for Tennessee, even though Tennessee hasn't been in a
position where they've led in a lot of games, which
typically helps the pass rush pin their ears back and
get off the quarterback. Jones has had four and a
half sacks across the last four weeks. So that's, you know,
a potentially impactful guy, especially for pass russ that's been
one of the worst in football. I don't know that
he's going to be a stuperstar for them. But even

(33:51):
just getting a little bit more of a boost for.

Speaker 7 (33:53):
Baltimore in their pass rush, going from bottom.

Speaker 11 (33:55):
Five or bottom three in the NFL to slightly below
average would even be a mass upgrade for them.

Speaker 7 (34:01):
So I think, especially for a team that, like you said, has.

Speaker 11 (34:03):
Gotten hot since Lamar Jackson's return from his hamstring injury,
I think could make a difference for sure.

Speaker 12 (34:09):
Well.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
Chatting with Garrett Poddell cbssports dot Com, and he's got
the winners and losers, certainly the big winners in the
deadline that just passed on Tuesday. Joe Flacco has been
found money for the Bengals. We all knew Flacco because
Flacco was an opponent again, you know, when he was
with the Browns, when he was with the Ravens. We
saw Joe Flacco a lot in this town. I don't

(34:32):
think anybody really thought that he would pick up the
ball and do what he's done to the length that
he's done it. But he certainly has done it, and
I would, at least from a Cincinnati point of view,
rate this is one of the steals of leading up
to the deadline day and beyond. It's absolutely staggering, how

(34:54):
he has come in, shown a steady hand, has worked
under center that could be a little bit of a
lesson going forward for Joe Burrow, and has just picked
it up and just run with it. They're still talking
about how terrible a deal this is in Cleveland, and
this deal has been in place now for almost a month,
but Flacco has found money for them. And I don't

(35:16):
know if any other quarterback, Garrett, maybe you can think
of one that was potentially available to them, either Russell
Wilson or Jamis Winston or any other quarterback that might
have been out there they could have signed that could
have done any better than what Flacco has done. It's
been amazing, hasn't it.

Speaker 7 (35:34):
It's been absolutely amazing.

Speaker 11 (35:36):
I mean, I think this is, you know, to quantify
how amazing it's been. Flacco leads the NFL in both
passing yards two hundred and fifty four and passing touchdowns
eleven since arriving in Cincinnati in Week six, and so
I had this him ranked as the third most impactful
trade of the season, and typically a quarterback would be,

(35:56):
you know, ranked higher.

Speaker 7 (35:57):
And as the most impactful.

Speaker 11 (36:00):
But the problem is, I told you he's been the
number one passer and football since coming to the Bengals
in Week six, but the team's records one in three
since he's been on the team, and that's because the
Bengals have the worst scoring defense in football thirty three
point three points per game allowed, So that's kind of
mitigated his high level elite production. And So to answer
your question about who else they could have gotten, I mean, yeah,

(36:22):
i'd say Russell Wilson. One person you didn't mention maybe
Kirk Cousins. But in the one start he did have
this year against the Miami Dolphins, he still looked kind
of gimpy from his torn achilles he suffered a couple
of years ago in his last season with the Minnesota Vikings.
So yeah, I think the Bengals clearly made the best
possible move, and you know, kind of like the Kyle

(36:44):
Degger trade I mentioned earlier, they.

Speaker 7 (36:46):
Gave up a fifth round pick, but they didn't.

Speaker 11 (36:48):
Lose a draft pick because they also got a twenty
twenty six to sixth round pick in return, so they
only moved down one round in the draft and got Joe.

Speaker 7 (36:55):
Flacco, who's been the most.

Speaker 11 (36:57):
Statistically productive passer and football since coming to Cincinnati, So
great trade. But you know, kind of like what we
said with Hendrickson earlier, like how much does it does
it matter given they're allowing thirty three three points per game?

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Yeah, I mean you would hope that that changes with
the bye week, but it is hope. They can't tackle.
They don't tackle. Well, you can't practice tackling in the
middle of the season. It just doesn't Teams don't do that.
You practice tackling, you get all that done in training camp,
and in training camp and in their preseason games they

(37:32):
exhibited an uncanny ability not to finish tackles. So I'm
not sure how it gets better. We can talk about
philosophy and schemes and all that all we want. Bottom line,
in football, as you well know, you block and you tackle.
If you can't block and tackle, then you have no
shadow winning. And I don't care who your quarterback is.

(37:52):
So we'll see. I don't know if they've got the Jews,
nor if the schedule seems to favor them at all.
My gut would tell me no. If you had to
make a call right now, Garrett, at this point in
the season, would you say yes or no on the
Bengals making the playoffs.

Speaker 11 (38:10):
I mean I would say no and just go back
to the next five games that they have at Steelers
home against Patriots, at Ravens at Bill's home versus Ravens.
I mean, going, like I said earlier, three and two
out of that stretch would be a win.

Speaker 7 (38:23):
And they're already three and six.

Speaker 11 (38:25):
I mean, they would have their defense, would have to
and they didn't make any trades, so the personnel toier
point that struggled isn't going to be no different than
when they come out of this buy So I would
be incredibly shocked if they came out of this only
losing one game.

Speaker 7 (38:40):
I mean, if they can get.

Speaker 11 (38:41):
Out of this next five game stretch at four and one,
their last two three games are Dolphins at Dolphins home
against the Cardinals home against the Browns. But it would
just involve only losing one game against all these AFC
contenders the next five weeks after this, very skeptical.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
That you'd be shocked, Well, let's keep hope alive, and
if indeed you are shocked, we'll be up there with
the smelling salts for you to revive. You'll slap you
on the face a couple of times and get you
back on your feet for your time today. Garrett, thank
you very much. We appreciate all your thoughts. Great story
twenty twenty five NFL trade deadline ranking every major deal

(39:18):
including Cowboys, Colts, Jets, Eagles, Steelers, and Joe Flacco. Garrett,
stay well, We'll be in touch.

Speaker 7 (39:25):
Thanks Ken, great talking with you as always.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Young writer, but knows the Lake inside out. And I've
had Garrett on several times on my seven hundred WLW show,
and he knows it well. Flacco was a steal. It's
hilarious if you're so inclined, or if you're in Cleveland,
or you listen on the APP and you listen they're
still talking about that trade and how terrible it was.

(39:53):
Oh man, that's a shame. That's going on three fifty
four News Radio three point fifty four ESPN in fifteen.

Speaker 4 (40:00):
Thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty Traffic.

Speaker 8 (40:07):
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Speaker 13 (40:38):
This report is sponsoror chance to win one thousand dollars
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Speaker 1 (40:50):
Will it's can Bru from Owager. You can hear Mo
and me and Tony Pike together at the Holy Grail
and that will be on Saturday, November the twenty first,
is at the Saturday whatever that Saturday is is our
next appearance at the Holy Grail leading into Bengals football

(41:11):
mose off today and I am in so, as we
like to say in the broadcasting biz, just deal with
it in a moment. One of the finest sports journalists
in the history of that particular profession, Armand Katayan will
join me long on things like ABC News and sixty
Minutes and things like that. And his book and it's

(41:35):
really a good read. I don't you know. I don't
really dive into books that I don't find really interesting.
And I could tell if it's going to be interesting
in about the first fifteen to twenty pages. But his
book The Price What it Takes to Win in College
Football's Era of Chaos is a great read and a

(41:56):
great look at how college football is almost on an
hourly basis becoming the National Football League and what it
costs to buy a player. That's what it is. It's recruiting. Yeah,
I mean it's still important, but you have to play
the nil game or you do not have a chance
to compete. Anyway. I've asked Arman to join me to

(42:20):
talk about the book and all about that, about how
college football anymore is just it's the uniforms, but it's
really professional football. It's really the NFL. So that's coming
up in just a couple of minutes tomorrow and right
here on ESPN fifteen thirty, it's Game three between FC
Cincinnati and Columbus. Hell is real, the three game detterby,

(42:46):
as they pretentiously say in soccer, the three game Derby.
It comes down to Game three tomorrow night here in Cincinnati.
I watch Game two. FC Cincinnati look totally unprepared. It
looked like it didn't know what sport it was playing.
To be honest with you. FC Cincinnati won Game one

(43:08):
one nil. They lost Game two. I mean I think,
I think Columbus is still scoring, and so they played
tomorrow night, and tomorrow night is the is the tiebreaker?
What happens to FC Cincinnati if they lose? What happens
to Pat Noonan? Because his roster is clearly better than

(43:29):
Columbus's roster and this is a guy who has not
excelled in the playoffs anyway. Noonan was talking earlier this
week about preparing his game, his team for a Game three.
Here's what he had to say.

Speaker 14 (43:45):
You just review, you know, situational stuff.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
I think.

Speaker 14 (43:52):
From the first two games, you get an indication of
what the end of a game could look like as
far as well, I would say, the first game, but
having things thrown at you when you're protecting a lead,
you know, on the other side of it, what does
it look like situationally when you're you know, in search
of a goal. Those are the things that you try

(44:15):
to prepare the group for because it can, you know,
look chaotic at times.

Speaker 3 (44:19):
So yeah, that's a lot of what we review.

Speaker 14 (44:23):
Obviously, everybody knows the circumstances going into it of you know,
a must win game, so you try to analyze and
take some lessons from unique circumstances in game two, and
then revisit some of the things from the first game
and have a confident group that understands how to approach

(44:45):
the game, but to go after it in a good way.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
I think this is an important game. Well it's it's
certainly an important game. You lose, you go home. I
think it's an important game for Pat Noonan. I just
think it is and we'll see where it goes. But
I would FC Cincinnati has the better side. They do now,

(45:10):
can it generate points? Can it play defense the way
it's supposed to play defense with the players they have,
and as it's constructed, can they score off set plays?
I think this is a huge game for Pat noon
and tomorrow night and f FC Cincinnati wins, it moves
on and they don't play best of three after this,

(45:31):
it's it's one and done's After this, there will be
a fourteen day break for the quote unquote international period,
because as you know, FIFA and Europe still rules a
sport that is trying to gain traction here in the
United States. So they'll they'll their season either ends tomorrow
night or if it continues on, there will be a

(45:54):
two week break. No UC football this weekend. We do
have other games that I think are mildly interesting in
college football. There are two teams around here that should
just simply overmatch their opponent. You've got Ohio State at
Purdue and Indiana at Penn State. They are both prohibitive

(46:14):
favorites in those games. University of Kentucky is at home
against Florida. By the way, Mason Cameron from Profootballfocus dot
com is going to join us in about a half
an hour to help handicap those games. College football anymore
looks like pro football nil has changed everything. Players are

(46:35):
now being paid, and they're being paid at some positions
a lucrative amount of money, all chronicled if you want
to understand how the game is being played anymore off
the field. By my next guest, he is Armand Katayan,
and together with another terrific journalist, John Talti, they have
written the book The Price, What it Takes to Win

(46:56):
in College Football's Era of Chaos, and it's it's great
to welcome in a guy who has just done it
the right way. Beat by beat, article by article, a
terrific print journalist and a print journalist had found great
recognition for his work as he moved into the world
of television. But he's writing books and writing them well,

(47:18):
and he's spending some time with us here on seven hundred.
There I go again on ESPN fifteen thirty ARMIEK and
Telly and how are you on this glorious day?

Speaker 3 (47:27):
I'm good, Ken, how are you doing?

Speaker 1 (47:29):
You were born with a note pen and a pen?
Is that right?

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Feel?

Speaker 8 (47:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (47:36):
I will tell you that a little known fact. At
East Hills Junior High School in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan, in
the eighth grade, I read the most books, and I
was a better than average athlete, but I was obsessed
with sports. I read the most books of any eighth
grade boy in the school, and the truth, to be told,
every single one of them was a sports book.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
So it was like the Mickey Man story. There were
Berto Clementi's story, the alk Line Story, you know, all
of those. But yes, books the love of reading to
get the love of writing, which you know. I grew
up in the Watergate era of Woodward and Bernstein and
David Halberstam, and so I got inspired by those guys.
And I'm still kicking around at seventy one.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Well, listen, if you grew up in that era and
those authors were ones that influenced you, you know the
importance of exhaustive research when putting together anything, let alone
a book like this. What it takes to win in
college football's era of chaos? Arman, If you've got the
answer to that, you know you've got to contact every
one of these college football y.

Speaker 15 (48:39):
Yeah, well, there's there's a The afterward is, you know,
basically the New Model. And John Talty and I am
my co author. It's a terrific young reporter. I say young,
he's half my age and he kind of reminds me
of me.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
The way it's an afterward is the new model, and
it tells you there's probably I think there's five or
six really good ideas in there, but we don't.

Speaker 14 (48:59):
We don't.

Speaker 3 (49:00):
We're not giving you what we think is the model
because I frankly don't think that model is in existence
right now. I think Charlie Baker, the president of the NCAA,
is doing his best to put together a framework. But
you know, until the two of the kind of cardinal
sins right now, if college football get corrected, and that's
wanton greed and complete self interest. I don't think they're

(49:24):
going to be a solid solution for a while.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
At least each passing day seems to bring college football
closer to the national football leg I'm disturbed by that.

Speaker 16 (49:33):
Are you?

Speaker 3 (49:35):
Well? I think if you're disturbed just going to way,
you can probably stand in line with a lot of
hit football coaches who are also disturbed. But it's a
fact of life right now. And I was talking to
the top NCAA investigator who does this stuff for a living,
and I said, well, what would be the biggest number
you've heard? And we kind of set this scenario where
if you were a power to school with a legitimate

(49:58):
shot at winning a national championship, and you had all
the other pieces in place to win a title, but
you the one missing link or piece was your quarterback,
and you went into the portal and let's say you
were a graduate student your last year of eligibility to play.
The number he told me and I and you hold
your breath for this one was eight million dollars.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
Yeah, and that's that's astonishing. But you know, when you
think about it, can the payout in the end between
what you win, what the school would get to win
a national championship, and then the donations that would come
in and the alumni support and the increased applications to
your school, and the prestige that would be associated with it.
You know, the payoff on that, the risk versus the

(50:44):
reward is probably three or four times as much money
coming in is for eight million. But you talk about it,
you know, throwing some some dice on the table, that
would be it.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
One of the topics I'm most interested in is you
get into the behind the scenes demo eyes of the
PAC twelve. Look, there's no honor among thieves, and there're
plenty of those in conferences in the United States. Look,
I mean, the University of Cincinnati benefited. They went from
a mid major conference to a power for conference. Took

(51:15):
a while, but they're there. They benefited. But a lot
of these other cities and states and conferences they were decimated.
I would guess the PAC twelve is a pretty good
study as to what's happened in a much smaller level
to some of these mid major conferences that lost member schools.
It seems like overnight.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
Yeah, I mean, if you're the American Athletic Conference, and
I know Tim Pernetti, the new commissioner, there is a terrific,
terrific guy and a great hire for them. But you
mentioned the PAC twelve. There's a chapter called Unrealistic and
I did a lot of reporting on it, and John
and I really combined that. It's one of the chapters
that we enjoyed working together on. And if you want

(51:55):
a classic example of, as I said, greed and self interest,
look no farther further than what happened to the two
the Conference of Champions, one hundred and eight year old conference.
You know, you can start with Bill Walton and Marcus
Allen and Karee met Duel Jabbar and Matt Biyondy and
God Tiger Woods, and I mean just just an incredible

(52:16):
history in that conference. And in a matter of forty
eight to seventy two hours, it imploded. And it imploded
because USC had made the original decision to go to
the Big ten and the only reason they went to
the Big ten was for money, and that was Fox money.
And then they brought UCLA along, and then everybody else

(52:38):
at that point in time is trying to figure out
who your friends are and who your enemies are. And
then when Washington and Oregon decided to go, that was
the definite end of it.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
You have a chapter in there about I guess the
king Maker. Jimmy Sexton eleven of fourteen SEC coaches, he
represents seven NFL coaches, He represents twenty of the fifty
highest paid college football coaches. He represents, and he makes
money sometimes just by floating rumors about schools and his

(53:10):
coaching representation. It's amazing how somebody can pull those kind
of purse strings. And nobody really knows who he is
except guys like you that write about it.

Speaker 3 (53:22):
Well, I see, he's a great character of the chapters
called the Powerbroker. And there's a great quote from Mark
Emmer at the former president. He said, he said, nobody,
nobody negotiates with himself better than Jimmy Sexton. And that's
exactly what Jimmy does. He basically had when Nick resigned on,

(53:44):
He had Caitlin de Boor, who came in from Washington.
He was able to get Steve Sarkesi in a huge
raise a Texas by floating the notion that sark might
leave and come back to Alabama. You had the Florida
State coach who also represented by Jimmy Sexton. Those were
the two Kandi Boor and the Florida State coach where
the two primary candidates. He gets a raise. It was

(54:11):
just it was just Jimmy at its best. And I've
known Jimmy for now going on ten years, in dating
back sometime when I was at sixty Minute Sports and
we were talking about doing a story about Jimmy and
I spent some time with him. Ben. He's the greatest
guy when he when he needs something from you and
from a media member, he'll text me or call me

(54:34):
and say, hey, I got something I you know, want
to see if you'd be interested in. But when I
need something from Jimmy and I text him, including texting
him and saying, Jimmy, we're doing the chapter on you,
we'd like to talk to you, it's crickets from his end.
So it's it's an interesting dynamic and I don't think
anybody I think he arguably is the most powerful figure

(54:54):
in college sports. You know, he was Reggie White's roommate
at Tennessee. He was the student manager UH at the
University of Tennessee. So his history is John Charts it
is fascinating. And you know, neither John or I have
gotten a call from Jimmy, which is also Silence is

(55:15):
a really nice thing in my business. You know, when
you do something like this, it's a pretty call. It's
like okay, you know they they seem to think it's
pretty fair.

Speaker 14 (55:26):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (55:27):
I like that word.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
I worked television television sports actually for forty five years.
I guarantee it. When they don't call, you're right, well, yeah, isn't.

Speaker 15 (55:38):
It the best?

Speaker 3 (55:39):
Like silence is great in our business, you know, because
God knows when you they feel like you've somehow, you know,
done the wrong thing. They're the first people on the
phone to call. Yeuh or their pr people are.

Speaker 7 (55:52):
The book.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
The book is the price what it takes to win
in college Football's era of chaos. Arman Kata and one
of the co authors, John the other look. I don't
know whether you reach any conclusions in your book. My
feeling is is that college football today will look nothing
like what it will look like in ten years. And
there's great debate as to whether or not it becomes
its own entity, it becomes its own industry, whether players

(56:16):
become employees. We even saw that to a degree. I
guess with the house settlement here a couple of months ago.
But my point is, I guess with all of this
is if it does march down that road where instead
of having to drag along and support the non rev
sports in a university, or drag along and support even
the lesser lights inside the SEC or the Big Ten,

(56:38):
there has to be some sort of cultural tie to universities,
because that's where I think college football gets its strength.
It's not necessarily the money it generates, the players it
brings in. It's that it is a tie between fan
and school. Players leave, coaches leave, but fan never leaves school.

(56:58):
I don't think setting it up as its own business
entity stand alone. I don't think that's going to work.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
Do you think's a really good point is that it's
trending in the direction of a breakaway right now. I
don't think everybody is walking on exshell's. Don't want to
be the first one to actually say we're going to
do this, And if it's going to happen, it would
be in a combination between Greg Sank and the SEC

(57:25):
the commissioner, and Tony Pettiti, the commissioner of the Big Ten.
They would operate as one. But you're absolutely right. I
think when you make it professional sport a minor league,
as you mentioned of the NFL, I believe it will
change the dynamic between the fans and the team, because

(57:45):
unlike professional sport, college football has a rabbit fan base
that I think can't be matched anywhere else. And whether
that changes, as we're not at the end of this evolution,
there will be another iteration. What it is and how
it will be controlled and how it will be structured
remains to be seen. But I think that's that's kind

(58:08):
of what they have to remember, is that that connection
between team and fan and college football is distinct and
it's precious in a lot of ways. And my hope
is that that whatever the iteration here is the final iteration,
it doesn't break that one into the.

Speaker 1 (58:29):
Price what it takes to win in college football's era
of chaos. Arman, great talking with you. Long admired your work.

Speaker 3 (58:36):
Thank you so much, all right, Ken, thank you?

Speaker 1 (58:39):
Yeah, you bet, And I do mean that I have
long admired this guy's work, and it is it's a
shadow of what it was college football ten years ago,
and I think it's a shadow of what it will
become as we get farther down the road, and I
hope it doesn't get to a situation where teams just
peel off from conferences and become, in essence, the NFL

(59:04):
with non student athletes wearing a jersey that says the
name of the college. But it appears to be on
that path. We are on a path right till five
thirty tonight and UK basketball. It is now four twenty
three ESPN fifteen.

Speaker 4 (59:22):
Thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic.

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Speaker 4 (59:59):
This report this is football in the NATI, brought to
you by Modern Office Methods on ESPN fifteen point thirty,
the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
Four twenty six on this Friday afternoon. If you're on
your way home, be careful. I hate to say that,
because we all should know how to be careful. But
it is a Friday afternoon and it is Cincinnati. Great
to have you with us as the weekend has begun.

(01:00:38):
Watched a little bit of the Xavier game last well.
I actually I listened to the Xavier game last night.
I listened to Joe and Byron and.

Speaker 7 (01:00:49):
Richard.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Patino's got an interesting team this year. I wouldn't call
it a team that I think will dominate opponents, and
certainly last night against Lemoyne, they did strow seventy four
to sixty nine. They win, Xavier does and they're two
and zero. Malik Messina Moore, this is a This is

(01:01:11):
a guy that gave him thirty three plus minutes last night.
Didn't shoot the ball all that well, but he did
shoot the three well, four of eight to wind up
with seventeen total points and five count them one, two, three, four,
five assists. Xavier beats Lemoyne last night, and uh, I
think it's it's going to be an interesting year at Xavier,

(01:01:34):
and interesting in a good sense. U see plays tonight
they're at home at fifth third Arena against Georgia State
one and oh, you see is after that ninety four
to sixty three win over Western Carolina Georgia State h
and one. So they played Georgia State tonight and then
on Tuesday they get ud in a home match seven

(01:01:59):
o'clock to number nine UK on the court against Valparaiso
UK is one and oh they won that game seventy
seven to fifty one over Nichols. They have a rivalry
game next Tuesday night they're at Louisville. But tonight it's
Valpraiso and Mark Pope. This is a game, by the way,
you will hear here on seven hundred WLW Mark Pope

(01:02:23):
on Valpo coming to town here.

Speaker 17 (01:02:25):
He is a bit of a Gonzaga vibe in the
way they play, the pace they play with, some of
the basic actions that they run, and their transition continuity
is very similar. And so it's a it'll be a
great game. It should be a really fun game. It's
going to be a physical, competitive game from a team
that's storied program that's got a great history.

Speaker 1 (01:02:46):
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's tonight airtime five thirty right here
on ESPN fifteen thirty Bengals off UCO. You know, I
was I speculated about this on seven hundred WLW last weekend.
You know what Joe Burrow has never had. He's never
had a big brother, a quote unquote big brother on

(01:03:08):
a football team. On this football team, never had a
quarterback he could look up to. It was Brandon Allen
and then it was Jake Browning, but he never had
a guy like Joe Flacco. And I think Joe Burrow
might be the first to admit, when it's all said
and done, that he has learned a few things from
watching Joe Flacco and would be good to have Flacco

(01:03:31):
around next year as kind of a sounding board. You know,
a coach can tell you one thing and it may
be something you think about and dismiss or whatnot. Kind
of like if you're a kid, your dad can tell
you one thing, and I don't know, but that if
your friend tells you something that's the same thing. Hey, yeah,
maybe that makes sense. I'd love for seeing them to

(01:03:52):
keep Flaco around after this year and have him become
like a hybrid, like a backup third string coach, assistant coach.
Other are those who think that Flacco would want much
more than that. As long as he can still play,
he probably wants to chase the pot of gold at
the end of the rainbow. But if not, Flaco home

(01:04:14):
because I don't think they can really bring Jake Browning
back next season as their their backup quarterback. Jaymar I
talked to Jay Morrison about this about you know, what
do they do? Because they you really I think they
should try and make a run at Flago. But if not,
what do you do?

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Well, I think two things.

Speaker 12 (01:04:31):
One could be a Flaco type guy not you know,
I don't know if it means Jake Browning's time here
is over, but go get a backup that has a
lot of skins on the wall and has played in
this league a lot and can be that, like you said,
the big brother with Joe Burrow. The other thing is
maybe the biggest advantage of this run with Flaco is

(01:04:54):
Joe Burrow sees with this offense can look like when
you embrace going under some and using play action. It's
just something he doesn't want to do. He likes to
be in shotgun, he likes to survey the field. He
doesn't like turning his back to the defense. We've seen
now what this offense looks like. With Blaco more willing
to do that. This running game is really taken off.

(01:05:14):
This offense as a hole has taken off. And maybe
maybe that gets into Joe Burrow's head a little bit
and he says, maybe I should relent on this and
be more open to that. And then if you're going
under center more and you're using the play action and
you're running the ball more, that's just automatically going to
reduce the number of times you could potentially get hit
and hurt. So I think those are the two big
approaches going forward. And then you got to hope he

(01:05:37):
just kind of gets it out of his head that
he can't just scramble around and try to make plays.
Sometimes it's better just to take the loss of the
ball away. It's when I feel as much as he does,
it's hard to do. But there's a lot of things
that have to change. I think it's organizationally. I think
it's with Burrow himself. And that's all I'll tell you

(01:05:57):
can do. I mean, if it's one of those things,
I don't know, if you're just gonna resign yourself that
this guy's injury prone, it's going to happen over and
over again.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
You have to try whatever you can to get that
out of it. I'd still make a run at Flaco,
Still make a run at them, all right, straight ahead,
Mason Cameron, Pro Footballfocus dot Com. We're going to handicap
some college and pro games this weekend and it's all
straight ahead. Stay tuned, Ken Brew for mo Oegger ESPN
fifteen thirty.

Speaker 4 (01:06:24):
You've been listening to Football in the NATI on ESPN
fifteen thirty, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.

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Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

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A minute or two worth of delays on that ezelk
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Speaker 1 (01:07:13):
This report is sponsor ESPN fifteen thirty. On this Friday,
welcome back. Some interesting games in college football tomorrow. I
wouldn't call them key matchups, certainly not for the local teams,

(01:07:36):
but interesting matchups. And then on Sunday there are some
really good matchups inside the National Football League Steelers, Chargers, Patriots, Buccaneers, Ravings, Ravens, Vikings.
But let's get a handle on what we should expect.
Standing by to join us right now. As someone who
applies his craft at PFF dot com that's Pro Footballfocus

(01:07:58):
dot Com, I would call I'm a handicapper. That might
not be completely fair. He is an analyst who can
do a deep dive into games and you know, along
the way might be able to help you win a
few dollars along the way. He's our good friend, Mason Cameron.
How are you on this glorious Friday.

Speaker 7 (01:08:16):
Dan, I'm good. I'm doing good. I can't wait for
a good weekend of football.

Speaker 18 (01:08:21):
And we got a lot of good matchups on this slate,
so happy to come on here and talk about them.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
Well, I'm glad you're here now. I just want to
hit you with some college games off the top all
local teams. You got Ohio State, it's number one in
the country. It's at Purdue. Purdue is getting twenty nine.
That is a hefty number for any team, but twenty
nine at home against the number one team in the country.
As you look at Ohio State and Purdue, what jumps
out at you?

Speaker 18 (01:08:46):
Yeah? Really, I mean, this is a big game of
just Ohio State playing Ohio State. And that's really how
a lot of their matchups have been. They'll win these
games by whatever they want to win them by. It's
whatever they deem necessary. And twenty nine and a half
is a big no number, but I'm not really, frankly,
that afraid of it. There's seven to zero and one
against the spread. Their average cover excuse me, their average

(01:09:06):
victory margin is twenty nine point eight points, so they're
they're very much in line to cover a fairly.

Speaker 7 (01:09:13):
Large number like this.

Speaker 18 (01:09:15):
The PFF model likes Ohio State to cover it. Also,
our line projection for that model is thirty point four,
so quite a bit over that. They're fifty two percent
in plight cover probability, which is actually a very solid
number when we talk about these bets against the spread,
particularly when we get to some of these really significant ones,
and there is actually also some sharp action here on

(01:09:37):
Ohio State side.

Speaker 7 (01:09:39):
This game has been very much bet.

Speaker 18 (01:09:41):
It's looking like ninety nine percent of the money is
on Ohio State only seventy three percent of the bets,
so sharps have pushed that money up a little bit.
I know that in some spots the line has actually
moved to twenty nine and a half, which I mean
really makes sense.

Speaker 7 (01:09:54):
And that's still a reasonable number for me to attack
it at.

Speaker 18 (01:09:58):
And you know, when we look at Purdue, they just
haven't won a home game since you know, early September.
It's seventh straight or they haven't won a games it's
early September, the seventh straight losses. They're two and three
against the spread at home this season, one and two
against the spread is twenty plus point dogs.

Speaker 7 (01:10:13):
And I mean the biggest issue is obviously, I mean
the glaring issue.

Speaker 18 (01:10:17):
I don't think you know, you need, you know, me
to come in here and explain that they are just
not going to have any answers for Julian Saying, Carnel Tate,
and Jeremiah Smith like this offense holds the highest EPA
per dropback in the nation by a wide margin.

Speaker 7 (01:10:32):
Saying is the highest graded passer in college football. Smith
and Tate both in.

Speaker 18 (01:10:36):
The top five and receiving grade at the position, and
I mean Purdue just has very little chance to check
these guys. They're the eleventh worst coverage team in EPA
per drop back in the nation. And I mean offensively,
it won't really be much better. When we talk about
Ohio State, I mean they're they're dominant on the defensive
side of the ball. They allows less than seven points

(01:10:57):
per game this season. Northwestern another allid defensive unit. They
shut this team out at home, and Ohio State is
you know, significantly better their fourth and EPA of play
allowed this season. So, I mean, Ohio State is the
business of crushing teams. And I really don't think that
this is going to be too different.

Speaker 1 (01:11:13):
Yeah, I I yeah. It's it's amazing how teams are
so mismatched inside even their own conferences. And you know,
Purdue is just it's it's it's a non factor virtually
every year when it comes to national championship consideration. I
look at Ohio State, I think Smith and Tate and

(01:11:33):
Saying are all going to play on Sunday, I think,
and I think in the case of Smith, I think
he's going to be world class when he plays on Sunday.
I think Juliet's saying is a guy that I mean,
I look at him right now, and I'm saying, you know,
his his game is not that far off from the NFL.
Unless I checked, he was completing like eighty percent of

(01:11:54):
his passes. He has great composure. I think a lot
of what he does is dictated by those wide receips.
They're just they're off the charts. But I would be
shocked if all three of those guys did not go
to Sundays and excel. Do you feel the same way.

Speaker 7 (01:12:10):
Yeah, you know absolutely.

Speaker 18 (01:12:12):
And you know a lot of comps that we've been
hearing about Julian saying is you know a guy that
is near and dear to the Cincinnati market. Here with
Joe Burrow, a lot of people what we see is
a lot of you know, Joe Burrow in his tape,
he's very composed under pressure, and you know, he's an
excellent passer. And I know that there's been some sort
of knock on him for having this talent around him,

(01:12:34):
But I mean, just cut on the tape and tell
me that that's not the best quarterback in the nation
right now, and you know, when he comes out, he will,
in my opinion, undoubtedly go first overall. And when we
talk about Tate and Smith, like those are two weapons
that are just going to be called in the first
round to go play on Sundays, and you know, we
we're hearing a lot of buzz about this Jets team

(01:12:55):
stockpilance of twenty twenty seven picks. I wouldn't be surprised
if you know, you end up see you know, saying
in Smith or Tate, you know link up here over
in New York. So that's definitely gonna be an interesting draw.
But you know, a lots to be said about those guys,
and they they're well worth the price of admission over there.

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
I kind of like Mendoza at Indiana.

Speaker 13 (01:13:18):
I do.

Speaker 1 (01:13:18):
They're at Penn State tomorrow and Penn State is getting
fourteen and a half at home. Their season blew up.
They fired James Franklin. It's been over there for a while.
Indiana has got Mendoza. He has the benefit of being
an older quarterback and he really I think comports himself
well on the field. The other thing is Indiana hasn't

(01:13:39):
allowed more than twenty points in a game all year.
Their defense kind of gets overlooked by all the things
their offense can do. But here they are at Happy
Valley and they got a spot fourteen and a half.
What do you think this one is going?

Speaker 18 (01:13:53):
Yeah, I mean, Kurtzygnetti has this team clicking. And of
course he, you know, sent the entire college football wins
Gape into a depression when he resigned there, and he's
gonna be there a long time. So I know a
lot of programs would have loved and Penns included, would
have loved to have this guy come over to their school.

Speaker 14 (01:14:12):
You know.

Speaker 18 (01:14:12):
I was talking to our guy over here at Pffdalvon Mosserman,
who is very tapped in at both the NFL and
college football level, and Indiana is actually his bet of
the week, and that this is one that I actually
agree with.

Speaker 7 (01:14:22):
I highly agree with it. Indian has been absolutely ridiculous.

Speaker 18 (01:14:26):
Now they're six and three against the spread in betting markets,
but when we look at their average margin of victory,
it's absolutely insane. It's the highest in the country at
thirty five point seven. That's five points higher than any
other team in the nation. And I mean, we can
talk about Penn State, I don't want to kick them
too much while they're down here, but they've obviously floundered there.

(01:14:46):
They're zero to five against record against Power four teams.
They're one and seven against the spread this season. Now
they are one and one against the spread as dogs.
They covered US three and a half point dogs in Indiana.
They missed seventeen and a half point dogs at Ohio State.
They lost that game by twenty eight. This is their
first home game as dogs, But I really don't see

(01:15:07):
it that far removed of what we saw from Ohio State.
This is probably an even better defense for Indiana than
Ohio State had, which is which is saying a lot,
because obviously Ohio State has gamers throughout and Indiana is
no different. Their second and EPA per play allowed. So
they're pretty phenomenal. And when we look at just the

(01:15:27):
deficiencies on Penn State, they've had under one hundred and
fifty passing yards for last five games. Grunk Meyer, I mean,
he's just not gonna have any answers for this unit.
He's got a fifty point four passing grade. And then
when we talk about the offense, I mean, the Indiana
offense is obviously clicking at a very very high level,
and Doza has been playing great. It's the highest EPA
per play offense in the nation. The Penn State defense

(01:15:51):
is just barely above the FBS average. So I really
don't see this being too much of a difficulty for
Indiana overcome. But I think one thing that we do
have to talk about, which I know, you know, I'm
from PFF and it's a data company, and this isn't
quite a statistical measure, but this team is chasing up

(01:16:12):
of the Buck guys in the polls, and they just
you can tell that they're trying to look for dominant
victories to add to this resume. Fifty five plus in
each of the last two games, and that directly followed up,
you know, a Buck. They're directly following up a Buckey's
team that just won thirty eight to fourteen at home
over Penn State.

Speaker 7 (01:16:32):
One way you can garner some.

Speaker 18 (01:16:33):
National attention and some advantage in that conversation is by
doing even better against this team in Happy Valley, And
I think that that's really what the message is this
week is, Hey, you guys, you want to be the
number one team in the nation, go out and beat
a team that you know you're going to beat and
absolutely beat the brakes off of them. So I think

(01:16:55):
that that's really the messaging for Indiana this week.

Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
Yeah, well, they're going to get all Ohio states. They're
just gonna have to wait a while. They'll get them
in the Big Ten championship game. But you're right, Bill Resume.
Going into that game, UK is at home. It's been
a rough year for UK. They got Florida. I actually
think this is a good week to get Florida. Florida
lost to Georgia in that Battle of the Hedges or
whatever they call it down there. Florida's got a nice quarterback,

(01:17:21):
they got DJ Langway and he threw the ball well
last week against Florida. But they're just there's just nothing
going on with UK. And you know, we'll see what
happens with Mark Stoops at the end of the year.
This is always I think probably the best scenario Kentucky
could hope for is catching Florida after Florida loses to

(01:17:42):
Georgia last week and Kentucky gets three at home? What
do you think?

Speaker 14 (01:17:47):
I mean?

Speaker 18 (01:17:48):
This is one of those really, really tough games because
neither team has been particularly good in betting markets, and
they both.

Speaker 7 (01:17:54):
Played incredibly difficult schedules.

Speaker 18 (01:17:57):
So that's where it's sort of hard to comb through
thes of what we might see from each of these teams,
particularly when we've seen, you know, a little bit more
improved play from.

Speaker 7 (01:18:07):
Both over the last couple of weeks.

Speaker 18 (01:18:08):
But Gators three and five against the spread. They haven't
covered a road game this season, LSU, Miami A and
m all losses. Kentucky also three and five against the spread,
but they're two and one is home dogs to cover
two of their last three games, the three point game
versus Texas, the seven point road win versus Auburn, So
that is sort of going in their favor. But it's

(01:18:31):
difficult because there's not really too many you know, statistical,
you know, perception measures that are going to you know,
equate to Kentucky playing above expectation even at home. The model,
you know, it likes Florida. We've seen sort of what
they've been able to do when they are playing well.
They played Georgia pretty closely, and I tend to lean

(01:18:52):
that lace slightly as well. They've played some close matchups
over the last two weeks. The covered last week, Like
I said, point dogs in Georgia. They're thirtieth overall in
the Power Ratings metric. The model places this game at
about three point eight point different So I mean it's
a slight positive ev but frankly, it's one that could

(01:19:14):
really swing either way. I'm not particularly swayed on either
side of this one. I could really see it flowing
towards Kentucky, who has obviously played.

Speaker 7 (01:19:24):
Much more improved overall this one.

Speaker 18 (01:19:27):
I mean, I would stay away from it on the spread,
but it's definitely gonna be one of the more interesting
games to watch closely on Sunday. See if you might
be able to get some live opportunities in there as well,
just to see how the game starts flowing for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:19:39):
We're chatting with Mason Cameron, ProFootball Focused dot com some
games this week, and let me move to Sunday because
I got a couple I want to ask you about.
First off, I want to talk about Steelers. Chargers could
be the game of the weekend. Five and three Pittsburgh
all the way out to the left coast to play
the six and three Chargers. Last week. I think most
people thought, you know, Indianapolis, they're gonna beat the Steelers

(01:20:01):
no matter where they're playing. Well, the Steelers wound up
winning by seven, but it took six turnovers to get
them that seven point win. Now they go to Los
Angeles where Herbert seems to be just just flipping it
out there. I'm just wondering, how you see this, two
teams that could conceivably conceivably win their own division.

Speaker 7 (01:20:22):
Yeah, you know, it's an interesting it's an interesting look.

Speaker 18 (01:20:27):
Inconsistencies on both sides of this matchup make this another
game that's a particularly difficult read on the spread.

Speaker 7 (01:20:34):
When we talk about Pittsburgh, I mean they're one and
two against the spread coming out of the buy.

Speaker 18 (01:20:39):
And obviously people are juiced after you know, beating Indy
last week, I mean, I and Indie better last week.

Speaker 7 (01:20:45):
Was definitely on the receiving end of that one as well.

Speaker 18 (01:20:48):
But the Colts, you know, they had six turnovers, like
you said, and they still cut this game to seven points.
When we talk about high turnover margins, yes, it's definitely
positive to help you win every individual matchup, but when
we see sky high turnover ratings like that, they're not
really sustainable metrics. It's something that we saw a lot

(01:21:09):
with like the Jags early on in the season where
they were, you know, taking three turnovers per game and
that was really helping them to win games, like when
they beat Kansas City, and one of those things is
just not sustainable. And they've actually come back down to
earth in that matter, and now you know, they're a
very beatable team there. It's they're not really a scary defense.

(01:21:30):
And that's sort of been a similar case with the
Steelers this year, where teams that can figure them out
have Last week, they were still twenty third in EPA
per play on offense, so still kind of conservative offensively,
which hasn't really been excellent for their you know, ability
to put up these numbers that they need to even

(01:21:51):
cover as favorites. But here, you know, on the road
they're going to be dogs. So it's it's gonna be
an interesting matchup, to say the least for me.

Speaker 7 (01:21:59):
The Chargers. You know, they've been favored in eight of
nine games this season.

Speaker 18 (01:22:03):
They're three and five against the spread as the favorites,
but that's one in five against the spread over the
last six and you know, it's comed with a battered
offensive line and Joe all now out for the rest
of the season without all their dead last and offensive
line grade will buy a wide margin. They've only posted
one game with a pressure a blow thirty percent. That's
obviously a place where even if struggling Pittsburgh defense can

(01:22:27):
really get after them on that. So my lean on
this one is more towards the game total at under
forty five and a half. That's sort of what I'm
liking most in this one. I think you're gonna see
some defensive highlights in this one that are really gonna
keep this game under the notch.

Speaker 7 (01:22:44):
But I have a little bit of a stronger lead
into some.

Speaker 18 (01:22:47):
Of the props you know, on the topic of the
Chargers blocking issues, justin Herbert's yardage line for rushing is
terribly misspriced. He's gone over the twenty three and a
half yard line in all but two of his games
this season. Than a big credit to judih for Gang,
who you know highlighted this on our pf AT betting
show this morning. But the blocking issues obviously haven't led

(01:23:08):
to the Chargers taking more conservative, you know, short passing
game approach. It's actually done the opposite, where Herbert is
running for his life. His scramble rates are incredibly high.
And he's doubled this line in three of his last five.
So this is a this is a mind that is
particularly you know, mispriced. And when we talk about a
Steelers team that plays a lot of man coverage, man

(01:23:30):
coverage is definitely one where you want to look for
mobile passers to be able to run guys backs are
turned to the line of scrimmage. It makes it a
much more feasible way for them to take off than
versone coverage.

Speaker 7 (01:23:41):
Something we see with like Josh Allen a lot.

Speaker 18 (01:23:43):
And then another one I'm liking is Aaron Rodgers to
go over twenty two and a half completions. Now this
one's moved a lot throughout the week. It was earlier
twenty and a half, now it's moved up to twenty
two and a half. I still like the over. I
still think there's some value there. I mean, he's he's
hit this in each of the last three. And the
Chargers really what we see is they run a lot

(01:24:04):
of zone defense, the second highest rate, and when Rogers
sees zone defenses, he is top eight and completion percentage
because he really likes to lean into the short passing game.
His four point nine yard average up the target versus
zone is actually the lowest of unqualifying quarterback.

Speaker 7 (01:24:20):
By quite a bit.

Speaker 18 (01:24:21):
So I expect, you know, a lot of short, high
percentage passes from that offense in this one, which is
also sort of going to play into the under there.

Speaker 1 (01:24:29):
Yeah, so but you like you like, you like playing
the total in this game more than anything forty five
and a half. And you're you're again to clarify, are
you saying the under on that?

Speaker 3 (01:24:40):
Yes?

Speaker 7 (01:24:40):
Yeah, but liking the under at forty five and a half.

Speaker 1 (01:24:42):
Okay, we got to run. But listen, Mason, good stuff,
and we'll see how it all plays out tomorrow and
again on Sunday on a on a weekend where the
Bengals don't play. I got thirty seconds. I'll just ask
you flat out. You look at the where the Bengals
are right now. They're three six, nine games in eight
to go. If you had to make it, if you

(01:25:04):
had to make a call right now, do they make
the playoffs or not?

Speaker 18 (01:25:08):
I would say no, it's just gonna be a tough AFC.
But you know, they still have offensive pieces. You really
never know which way that can go. Joe Flacko's been
playing great so It's something that I'm gonna definitely like
to see, but right now I would not be betting
on it.

Speaker 1 (01:25:21):
Yeah, they've got to give you a reason to believe,
and so far they have not, rather than the fact
they can run point totals up. But you eventually have
to tackle somebody. All right, Mason, stay well. Tell the
boys down there at PFF dot com. We said, Hi,
I will do Thank Ken there he is, Mason Cameron.
You want to handicap a game, you want to get
into it deeply. Talk to that guy. He could help
you out. It is coming up on four fifty five

(01:25:45):
on this Friday afternoon. Friday afternoon is the weekend looms ahead,
and my goodness, who would not look forward to that?
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Thirty Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty traffic.

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On our website, win that's win, Enter it now.

Speaker 1 (01:26:45):
Five out shifts and welcome back. ESPN fifteen thirty. I
am ken Brew counting down to Kentucky basketball chip at
seven tonight with UK agains Valparaiso. But of course it
is Kentucky basketball, so the ninety minute pregame show begins
at the bottom of the hour. Here on ESPN fifteen thirty,

(01:27:05):
the University of Cincinnati plays tonight. You can hear that
one on seven hundred WLW. They're at home for a
seven o'clock tip against Georgia State. Georgia State is on one.
U see what that went over Western Carolina the other
night ninety four sixty three. Then they have UD they
have Dayton coming to town on Tuesday night of next week.

(01:27:26):
And last night at at the Centas Center, Richard Patino's
team went to two to zero. On twenty twenty five,
they had a seventy four to sixty nine win on Lemoyne. Yeah, Lemoine,
it's going to be a struggle this year, I think
for for Xavier in a lot of games that you

(01:27:46):
look at and you say, hey, you know what, why
are they struggling. They had Roddy Anderson last night with
fifteen points, Malik Messina Moore had seventeen points and five assists.
But after the game, Patino was taught about his team
and it had to and how it had to rally
for a win.

Speaker 16 (01:28:05):
Yeah, We're going to make it interesting for all the
fans this year. I can tell you that much. But
I'm really proud of the response. You know, I thought
Roddy and Philip did a great job of not pouting,
coming in and being great off the bench. Obviously sharing
the basketball. Twenty assists was awesome.

Speaker 12 (01:28:24):
You know, our defense is a little better in.

Speaker 16 (01:28:26):
The second half, but we certainly got some work to
do there. And you know, giving that kid number seven
six threes was no good. But overall, you know, I'm
proud of the effort in the fight. We played really
really hard today.

Speaker 1 (01:28:38):
Yeah that would be Trent Muscara from Lemoyn who had
the six threes. Anyway, it's a win seventy four to
sixty nine, and Xavior moves to two and zero. Somebody
that follows basketball globally and is probably watching a lot
of these games, these early season games with great interest,
is joining us now. He is, among other places, correspondent

(01:28:59):
for the website Busting Brackets, and I had Cole Eminson
on the show last year. Wanted to get him back
on early on this year and hopefully for a few
more times between now and the end of the basketball season.
Let's bring them on in. Cole, how are you on
this glorious day.

Speaker 7 (01:29:14):
I'm good, Ken, thanks for having me appreciate you.

Speaker 1 (01:29:17):
Yeah, I'm glad you're here. It's kind of I don't know,
it's a learning process for me, and I'm certainly it's
a learning process for you, certainly more for me than
it is for you. These teams they just change players,
and the early season rhythms aren't there, and it just
seems like at this time of the year it's very

(01:29:38):
difficult to keep up with who's where and exactly who's
playing and in what kind of system. College basketball is
certainly nothing like it was even ten years ago.

Speaker 15 (01:29:48):
Was it?

Speaker 16 (01:29:50):
No?

Speaker 7 (01:29:50):
Absolutely not. I know that throughout the summer and things
like that.

Speaker 13 (01:29:54):
You're always trying to track who goes where, trying to
keep a spreadsheet going sometimes and you lose track of
them there and just keep a track.

Speaker 7 (01:30:02):
Of all of them is obviously very very hard to do.
There's so many moving parts throughout a lot of things.

Speaker 13 (01:30:08):
It's a landscape that's ever changing right now, and keeping
track of them is one of the most difficult tasks
that you can do in the offseason, that is for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:30:17):
Well, let's begin with last night, and let's begin with Xavier,
not necessarily about last night's game. About this Xavior team.
There's a new head coach, obviously, it's Richard Patino, and
he has brought in a lot of new players. What
do you know about this team that a lot of people,
even his father Rick said, don't expect a whole lot
from Xavier this year. What are you looking at when

(01:30:37):
you see that team?

Speaker 7 (01:30:39):
Yeah, absolutely, I think you know.

Speaker 13 (01:30:41):
When you're in these early type of games, early on,
it's of course you want to win, but it's also
a matter about how you win, especially when you're kind
of playing against some lower level competition, and we saw
it hasn't been necessarily pretty for Xavier.

Speaker 7 (01:30:54):
Obviously, the blown twenty point.

Speaker 13 (01:30:56):
Lead to Maris and then they eked out that five
point win over Lamoi, which is currently a Ken Tom
Sub three hundred team right now. So obviously that doesn't
inspire a whole lot of confidence. And I know, of
course rick Rick Patina was like, hey, expect a long season.
But again, Xavier is a brand new team. This is
a brand new, brand new coach, everything like that. There's

(01:31:17):
a lot of shuffling right now going through their starting
lineup and things like that. But Montana transfer Malik More,
He's done a lot of the heavy lifting offensively. I
think that's probably I guess we'll see a lot of
things change. Again, this is only November, but maybe you
can kind of see him emerge as that go to
scoring options. But there's just a lot of things that

(01:31:38):
are kind of influx right now with Xavier. A lot
of question marks still to be had. I know, obviously,
when you're in these tight games early in the season,
especially when you were playing these type games, you know
there is benefit to that in the long run when
you can close out these tight games, which obviously Richard
Patino did allude to in his press conference. But again you,

(01:32:00):
it's not exactly a vote of confidence when you're kind
of squeaking through these kind of games early on in
the season.

Speaker 1 (01:32:07):
We have the University of Cincinnati back home tonight. You
can hear that one on seven hundred w WELW right
down the hall. Georgia State is the opponent. And then
their first real test or the most interesting game so
far the season will be Tuesday night when the University
of Dayton hops a bus and heads on down here.
But let's talk a little bit about West Miller's team.

(01:32:27):
Big twelve basketball.

Speaker 3 (01:32:29):
I love.

Speaker 1 (01:32:30):
I think there's a strong argument to be made that
it might be the best. Still, that's it.

Speaker 13 (01:33:00):
Excuse me, you're breaking up here a little bit. I
heard a little bit of that, but I heard just
a couple glimpses of that.

Speaker 1 (01:33:06):
Sorry, you're.

Speaker 7 (01:33:11):
Twenty Yeah, absolutely so. I can't hear much.

Speaker 13 (01:33:17):
But I do have a lot of thoughts here on
Cincinnati here, and I think one thing with Cincinnati for
me is maybe I'm a bit too optimistic, but I'm
really confident in the Cincinnati team this season. I had
we had to do some of these hot takes early
on in the season, and one of them, for me,
was that Cincinnati comfortably makes the NCAA tournament. We'll see
how that actually unfolds throughout the season, because there's no

(01:33:40):
question that this is a big year for Wes Miller.
But I really did like what I saw there in
their ninety four to sixty three win over Western Carolina.

Speaker 7 (01:33:48):
The thing with Cincinnati defense is going to be the thing.

Speaker 13 (01:33:51):
I think they realistically can be arguably a top three
defense in the Big Twelve. They forced twenty two turnovers
from West Carolina and they scored twenty six points off
those turnovers. So that's obviously a promising sign which can
kind of turn defense into offense, which of course that
wasn't really the case last season, so that's a promising sign.

(01:34:11):
Florida transfer Baba Miller he can be that X factor.
He had eighteen points, ten boards. He pairs really nicely
with UCF transfer Mustapa Dam and he's kind of a terrorizing,
kind of a block shocking machine. So he kind of
got some two longer type bodies there, and I think
they've pair very well nicely for Cincinnati. And of course

(01:34:32):
freshman Sean Abayev. He looks really good. He looks almost
as good as advertised. And there's also, of course, you
have that veteran backcourt Dade Thomas and kurk Resa And
I know they did lose or dismiss Gisel James here,
but again, this is a team that I think does
have the pieces to make some noise. But again it's

(01:34:52):
still early on in the season. There's that non conference schedule.
They're not gonna leave the state of Ohio until December thirteenth.
They'll get home the friendly home court, They'll get the
friendly Ohio thing for them going here, so maybe that
can help them.

Speaker 7 (01:35:06):
But they're gonna have to get a few wins.

Speaker 13 (01:35:07):
I know that Dayton game is gonna be really big,
and then they got Louisville coming up, Xavier and the
rest of that non conference schedule notably runs out with
Georgia and then Clemson.

Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
How do you see the Big twelve this year, Cole
how do you see that playing out that conference?

Speaker 15 (01:35:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 13 (01:35:23):
I think Big twelve for me is it's Houston's to lose. Houston,
I think has I mean, obviously they return a lot.
In my opinion, they are the number one are possibly
number two team in the country. The defense there is
going to be is great. The defense great I believe
the Big Twelve runs through Houston. But again, there's also

(01:35:44):
there's Kansas, who a bit of a wild card because hey,
like they didn't have the best couple of seasons. I
mean Bill self, but he lost in the round of
sixty four last year and then the round of thirty
two the year before. They were just ten and eight
and eleven nine and the Big Twelve kind of in
that middle of the pack. But I really do think
there's Darren Peterson with that freshman at the freshman class

(01:36:05):
year in college basketball is phenomenal, and Darren Peterson is
right up that list.

Speaker 7 (01:36:09):
I think that.

Speaker 13 (01:36:10):
Kansas could be a team that we're kind of losing
sight on a little bit. And we can never doubt
Bill self, We just can't.

Speaker 1 (01:36:17):
We have Kentucky tonight against val Praiso, and Mark Pope
was talking this week about how much more physical his
team is this year. He wanted to upgrade its physicality
and the practices I guess are very physical. I'm just wondering,
as you look at Kentucky inside the SEC, what are
you seeing from the Wildcats.

Speaker 13 (01:36:38):
Yeah, there definitely is a physicality thing that's showing here.
I believe they out rebounded Nichols fifty one to thirty or.

Speaker 7 (01:36:45):
Something like that. I'll have to check the box score
for that.

Speaker 13 (01:36:47):
But the physicality with Kentucky is evident, and I know
there's I've seen a lot of people, in my opinion,
a bit overreacting about Kentucky's shooting woes so far to
start the season.

Speaker 7 (01:36:58):
Now, don't get me wrong, the number aren't great.

Speaker 13 (01:37:00):
They shot just seven for twenty seven, which is about
a twenty six percent from three over Nichols, and in
their exhibition lost to Georgetown, they shot just twenty three
percent from three.

Speaker 7 (01:37:11):
So again, I get that there's these struggles.

Speaker 13 (01:37:13):
But reports indicated right now that Jay Pitt transfer Jalen
Lowe is expected to return tonight, and he was terrific
at Pitt. He was really much a pick and roll
master besides Braden Smith. I think he was arguably the
most comfortable and pick and roll situations. He averaged almost
seventeen points a game five and a half a sisper

(01:37:33):
game last season with Pitt. So if he's gonna come
tonight against val Perezo, I think he'll be ready to
help kind of generate a bit more flow into Kentucky's offense.
I think, for lack of a better word, I think
Kentucky's offense it felt a bit shoppy, so to speak,
in their Nichols game, But it's something that's going to
take time. There's obvious firepower in this offense, and we

(01:37:54):
saw a little bit in that second half of the
of the game against Nichols that kind of just showed
what their capable of doing on the offensive side of
the floor. If they would have knocked down a few
more free throws they shot just twelve to twenty two
from the line, they would have had eighty easily. So again,
I think this is sort of a chemistry project for Kentucky.
There's a lot of moving pieces, and again it's only November.

(01:38:15):
They got the depth and I believe that these are
just it's just it's a long season. It's November seventh,
it's the first week of college basketball. I believe this
offense will kind of work its way into and we've
already seen the physicality aspects that's already immediately evident with
this team.

Speaker 1 (01:38:32):
There's another good game to Kansas and North Carolina. That's
a big season for North Carolina, and at least early on,
this is a Marquee matchup. Maybe not either team ranked
as high as they should be, but I think both
teams will be around at the end of the year.
Would you agree, Absolutely?

Speaker 13 (01:38:48):
Absolutely, And yeah, it's a big year for North Carolina,
a big year for Hubert Davis. Been very much a
roller coaster, up and down, up and down, up and down.
But again, this is the year of the freshman college basketball.
Caleb Wilson is another name just a circle whenever you
see North Carolina's to watch, Caleb Wilson. Obviously Seth Trimble
there is great too as well. Jonathan Powell's pretty darn

(01:39:10):
good too for North Carolina. But yeah, it's both these teams.
I'm actually very much optimistic with. I believe we'll get
blue Bloods back this season.

Speaker 1 (01:39:18):
Yeah, I mean, I'm looking at all. I'm looking at
the top twenty five, and the usual suspects are in there,
and I you know, you could talk about any one
of those teams winning at all. Is there any team
that's bubbling below the top I'm sorry, the top fifteen?
Is there any team bubbling below fifteen? The Alabamas, the
Iowa States, the Tennessee is the All Burns of the world.

(01:39:42):
Is there any team there that could be a surprise
early on this season. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:39:46):
Absolutely.

Speaker 13 (01:39:47):
One name that I kind of or one team that
I got circled would be the Illinois fighting a line.
I think there's again there another team. I think this
is the theme is lots of moving pieces, and that's
the case with Illinois. But again, they got a lot
of size, they got a lot of experience. They played
really well in their win over Jackson State. And I
know that it's Jackson State. There's only a small sample

(01:40:09):
signs that you can take away from it. But I
mean they got some stat stuffers, and I think what's
going to be most important why I'm a bit very
optimistic about Illinois here is you know, you've got Ben Hummerkous,
who last year took a little bit of slack from
the Illinois fans a little bit about his inconsistency, so
to speak. From the three point line. He made five

(01:40:29):
threes off the bench. He had twenty one points. So
again you can if you have that other X factor
kind of coming in that he's not even starting and
he's making that impact, that's something that I could be
optimistic with with Illinois. Of course, I like Kylon Boswell
a lot too as well, and I really am a
big fan of They got Thomas LoVa Vsitch and then
as well as his brother, zibamoor A Vsch, which I'm

(01:40:52):
sure I mispronounced that name.

Speaker 7 (01:40:53):
They're twins.

Speaker 13 (01:40:54):
And again that's kind of like those dudes are about
seven foot Those guys are huge that and they're all
they all capable of stretching the floor, which is perfect
because Brett Underwood talks a lot about positionless basketball, and
those guys kind of fit that build and kind of
fit the system for Illinois.

Speaker 1 (01:41:09):
Visa. Thomas lav I think is a wonderful player. Thomas, Yeah, wonderful,
just absolutistic player. And you know, sometimes big guys just
don't play all that fluidly. They're kind of awkward. He's not.
He plays about his flute. There is any big guy
that's out there right now very fluid.

Speaker 13 (01:41:28):
He had I believe he had three threes in his
game in the game against Jackson State. I mean he's
I want to say he had maybe five or six
three point attempts. And you know this is this isn't
just a six foot ten guy, this is seven foot
one guy. I mean, this is this is impressive stuff,
very fluid, and he's you know, he's only going to
get better throughout the season.

Speaker 7 (01:41:47):
Very optimistic with him.

Speaker 1 (01:41:48):
Well, Cole, we appreciate your time. I know I mentioned
you know where they can find you busting brackets, but
you kind of right all over the place where there
where are what else does your work show up these days?

Speaker 7 (01:41:59):
Yes, sir correct?

Speaker 13 (01:42:00):
I also right now, you know, I'm working over at
a newspaper just north of Madison, Wisconsin. Working at a
newspaper covering a lot of prep school stuff right now.
That's kind of, you know, the first job out of
college so to speak here for me, so kind of
working up the ranks through there and doing all the
prep stuff. And we'll be doing some prep football tonight.
But I'll tell you what, I will have the scores

(01:42:21):
on my phone. I will be watching and I will
be having all those scores going through just so I
don't miss a beat.

Speaker 1 (01:42:27):
There you go, well, Cole Evanson, it's great to have
you on again. You stay well, We'll die you up
here in a little bit. Thanks.

Speaker 7 (01:42:33):
Thank Ken.

Speaker 1 (01:42:35):
There he is busting brackets bustingbrackets dot Com. Who would
not like to bust some brackets sometimes I feel like
busting loose, remember that song. Nevertheless, that's what we're leading into.
We're leading into Valpraiso and UK that's coming up at
the bottom of the hour, and that'll be at seven

(01:42:57):
o'clock tip off. You see, Georgia's stay again is on
seven hundred WLW. Again is seven o'clock tip off. So
all kinds of college football coming up. We might not
have we might not have at all football here this weekend,
but we certainly have college basketball, and it's going to

(01:43:17):
be interesting to see how it all plays out, not
necessarily for you know, who wins championships or whatnot, but
how these teams together, you know, how they work together,
how it all comes together, how everybody seems to get
into the flow of things. It's a very difficult thing
to gauge. Early in the season. You look for individual
players and what they can accomplish, and then you try

(01:43:40):
to factor that into where this team, where these teams
might be when it really drops into third gear sometime
around the first of the year. So that's what I
look at. I look at individual players, I look at
what their game is, and then I watch to see
how the coach can factor all of that into a
winning season. That'll do it for me. Ken Brew from

(01:44:02):
Oeger ESPN fifteen thirty back on seven hundred WLW tomorrow
at high noon and Sunday morning Sports Doc beginning at
nine oh six this Sunday. Have a great weekend. You
will if you keep it here on ESPN fifteen thirty.

Speaker 2 (01:44:23):
Cincinnati's ESPN fifteen thirty.

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