The Role of Genes in ADHD: Insights from Dr. Tyler Panzner

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Imagine knowing exactly whyyour brain feels overstimulated or
sluggish and uncovering theunique blueprint that could help
you thrive.
Dr.
Tyler Panzner joins me todayto talk about the role your genes
play in adhd, a histamineresponse, and even your mood after
chicken soup.
If you're ready to connect thedots for your brain health, this
one's for you.
Welcome to ADHD NaturallySmart Solutions for Holistic Women

(00:23):
with Christine McCarroll.
I hi, I'm Christine, and thisis the spot to learn natural strategies
for supporting your ADHD brain.
As a woman, with all thehormonal curveballs and unique challenges
that only females face, I'vemade it my mission to uncover the
root causes and little knownsupports for your ADHD brain that
your doctor doesn't know andwon't tell you.
Learn the truth and find your focus.

(00:45):
No prescription required.
Well, hello friends, andwelcome back to ADHD Naturally.
Today's guest is Dr.
Tyler Panzner, a PhD scientistwith deep expertise in pharmacology,
neuroscience, and inflammationresearch, who found his true passion
in the field of genetics andpersonalized health.
Dr.
Panzner's work is all aboutoptimizing health at the cellular

(01:05):
level.
He helps people uncover whichvitamins, foods and supplements might
be working for or againsttheir unique genetic makeup.
In this conversation, we diveinto the fascinating role of genes
like COMT and adhd, howhistamine might be revving up your
brain, and why even seeminglyhealthy foods can impact how you
feel.
If you've ever wondered whysome supplements or foods just don't

(01:26):
work for you or worse, makeyou feel overstimulated, this episode
will open your eyes to thescience behind your body's blueprint.
Plus, Dr.
Panzner shares actionableinsights for women with ADHD, including
what you might want to lookfor in your own genetics and a few
steps you can take right nowto feel better.
All right, Dr.
Tyler Panzner, welcome to the podcast.

(01:47):
Thank you so much for havingme on.
Super excited to be here, Tyler.
I have like all of these nittygritty questions I'm like, dying
to ask you.
And I've been preparing for awhile for this interview, but I wanted
to first start out with partlyyour journey.
But I don't want you to tellme the whole story yet.
Here's what I'm reallyinterested in.

(02:09):
I find that a lot of people,once they start doing either, they
look at their genetics,someone looks at their genetics.
Once you start diving into thefield, there's some amazing aha Moment
where you just go, oh my God.
That's just like the sky'sopened up, the light shone down.
Something is like understoodnow that was not understood before.
And I know that you kind ofstarted into this pathway by looking

(02:29):
at some of the stuff for yourown, your own life.
Was there a moment that waslike, oh my God, here's the thing.
That is like, where were youall my life?
Yeah.
So that was actually when Ifirst started messing around with
23andMe.
I got my raw data and that'swhen I first found out about my COMT

(02:51):
gene mutation.
Have you ever heard of thatone before?
Well, that's a big one withADHD, which is my community here.
So 100%.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I found out I have a doublemutation there.
Turns out both of my parentshave double mutations there.
So my younger brother and I,we were guaranteed double.

(03:12):
You know, like there was noway around that.
No way around that.
And you guys listening may notbe aware.
That is a catechol omethyltransferase gene.
And what that does is itmethylates certain things, particularly
dopamine, norepinephrine,epinephrine or adrenaline, noradrenaline
and estrogen to break them down.

(03:33):
And that explains a lot aboutmy personality type.
And out of all the genes Ilook at that is perhaps the, you
know, no personality or noailment is due to just one mutation.
But if I had to say, when itcomes to like neurochemistry personality
types, that COMT gene I thinkhas, has holds the highest weight.

(03:58):
Like that alone can reallyshift personality a lot.
And I break down dopamine,adrenaline, noradrenaline, a lot
slower than most people do,four times slower.
So it makes me very type A,very go, go, go.
I even think of my favoritesong and I get goosebumps everywhere.

(04:18):
But I also, on the flip side,I can get overwhelmed easily.
I cannot watch scary moviesbecause my fight or flight, when
something jumps out, I'm like flinching.
I'm jumping out there.
Make a very sensitive nervoussystems overall.
And I'll show, I'm sure we'regoing to jump into, you know, ad.
ADHD is just one of manylabels are under that umbrella term

(04:42):
of, you know, a highlysensitive person or neurodivergence.
And you know, I identify asboth here.
And that's was one of thereally big aha moments for me.
Magnesium and sammy, those aretwo nutrients that gene uses to function
better.
I tried those.
It really changed my life.

(05:04):
Virtually overnight.
I discovered lithium orotatewhich I love utilizing for adhd.
I've.
That's more of a recentdiscovery, so.
I'm gonna stop you there andI'm gonna, like, completely rewind
because I want to talk aboutsupplements 100 and actually this.
This season that we're inright now of this whole ADHD podcast,
but we're talking aboutsupplements is gonna be perfect.

(05:25):
But I wanna rewind becausewe're speaking the same language.
But not everyone knows some of these.
Things, so I had that habitsometimes going too deep.
So, yeah, let's.
Let's bring it back so hard.
I want to make sure everyonecan wrap their minds around this
because it really is a wholenew perspective of not just approaching
ADHD, but just health in general.
Mm.
100%.
So we're.

(05:46):
We started talking about theCMT gene.
I'm just going to like.
Like, I want to back it up tosomeone who's really never thought
about genetics before.
Yep.
When you're using letters todescribe this gene, like, okay, what
does that even mean when we'relooking at genetics?
Are we looking at.
And you know, obviously this comt.
Is one that I think.
Again, I wanted to have thisconversation and this was, like,

(06:08):
all over my notes.
Right.
But like, okay, when we'retalking about this, we're talking
about one gene, but there'sother genes that interact.
What does it mean?
You said you have a double mutation.
What's a mutation?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So let's totally go back.
Let's run the tape.
We're going back tokindergarten here.
So.
Yeah, absolutely.
So our genetic code is theinstructions that tells our cells

(06:32):
how to make proteins.
Think in.
Think of each one of yourcells as the city of Manhattan.
And inside of each one ofthese cells, there's millions of
people, millions of workers.
These are proteins.
So pretty much anything youcould think of, whether it's to make
dopamine, whether it's tobreak it down, whether it's to sense
dopamine, whether it's to makevitamin D, whether it's to move cholesterol

(06:54):
throughout your body.
Every single one of thesetasks are done by workers.
You need a worker to do a task.
You need a protein to do acellular process.
So there's millions of theseworkers inside of our cells, and
we make them from our DNA.
Now that DNA is misspelled.

(07:15):
There's four letters.
A, T, C and G spells our DNA.
That's all.
That's all it is.
At the end of the day, ifwe're supposed to have an A, let
me think.
I'M pretty sure for the CMTone, it's supposed, where they're
supposed to be a C or a G, Ihave an A or T.
So not to go too deep, but inthat exact area, that one letter

(07:37):
area, there's a misspellingthere for me.
What does that mean?
That means that when my cellsturn those instructions into these
workhorses, into that COMTprotein, it functions a little differently.
That misspelling means thatworker, instead of working an eight

(07:58):
hour day, only works a twohour day.
So it works four times slower.
So that means instead ofbreaking down my dopamine and adrenaline
for eight hours a day, I'monly breaking it down for two hours
a day.
So that's what can make me bevery sensitive, highly excitable,

(08:18):
and because I can't processthat as well.
So that's what these genemutations mean.
And we can.
These have been well studied.
They're linked to things likeanxiety, like insomnia, panic attacks,
even a startle response.
So we look at the data.
Well, that, all of thosepieces of data we see, it's the manifestation

(08:40):
of excess adrenaline.
Right.
Excess dopamine and how about that?
Double and single mutation.
Yeah.
So you have two sets of genes.
You got one set from mom, oneset from dad.
We have 46 chromosomes, halfof them for mom, half of them are
from dad.
So if I have two sets of chromosomes.

(09:06):
My eggs.
Sorry, My eggs.
Jeez.
My sperm.
My sperm only gets one half ofthose because we need to cut it in
half.
Right, because you have halfof the sperm meets half the egg,
we got to get rid of half ourDNA somehow.
So it's a 5050 chance whichset of that gene gets passed down
again.
Yep.

(09:26):
So I told you, my parents eachhave two mutations, so both of their
parents pass it on to them.
So in that this scenario, 100%of my parents, children will get
both copies.
Because no matter which set ofchromosomes they give with that COMT
gene, they're both mutated.
But if someone has onemutation there, then it's a 50, 50

(09:49):
chance.
So this is why I work with alot of families.
And this is why sometimes kidscan have very different health issues,
different personality types,even though they're related.
It depends on what's gettingpassed down.
I worked with families wheremom and dad each have six mutations
in a gene.
One kid has 12, the other kidhas zero.

(10:09):
Which is pretty wild when youthink about that.
My wife, she has no comtmutations, which is good because
she balances out my supersensitive at times.
Crazy mind up here, upstairs, here.
But 100 of our children.
No children yet.
But down the road, 100 of ourchildren will have one copy of that

(10:32):
gene.
Yeah.
Because zero percent of hereggs will have that mutation.
100 of my sperm will.
Yeah, we had to.
So I have.
I have some double cousins,which for anyone who does not know
what that means.
It means.
Yeah, tell me.
I never had heard of that one before.
Yeah.
So my mom's sister was marriedto my dad's brother.
Oh, wait, so essentially Ihave double cousins too, then I didn't.

(10:56):
Well, how has my family neverused that word?
But yeah, I don't know.
My family too.
Huh.
It's pretty cool.
That is.
There are not many, I thinkstatistically, I mean, there's not
that many people.
Yeah.
Like I.
People I call uncles that areolder, but they're, I guess, older
double cousins.
Interesting.
Yeah.
I'm not sure that piece, but I will.
I don't know.
Yeah, yeah.
But so we always had talkedabout before we ever looked at our

(11:18):
genetics, we always talkedabout, well, genetically we're like
brothers and sisters and kind of.
That's true, but each of our parents.
So like my dad and his brotherwould have gotten slightly different
genes from their parentsbecause half of that was split off.
Right.
And same with my mom and her sister.
So we all did.
A few years ago.
We just.
We did our just like theancestry DNA.
And we were not even lookingat the health stuff right.

(11:40):
At that point yet.
I went into that totally ancestry.
It's the gateway drug.
It was the gateway drug forsure, but we were just looking at
like, oh, well, like where,you know, where do our people come
from?
But we had like, differentpercentages, Right.
So like, it was all the samegeneral map, but the percentages
were wildly different.
And it.
And it was.
And we couldn't understand.
We're like.

(12:00):
Well, if like we've alwayssaid we're kind of like brothers
and sisters and it wasactually like one of those FAQs on
the ancestry side.
It's like, well, why might abrother sister have that?
And so I had.
But I never thought of that before.
Like, yes, you do just discardhalf that genetic data from mom or
dad and you don't know which.
Which half it is.
So, yeah, we can end up withtotally different things.
But also, to your point, weknow that there's a lot of heritability

(12:22):
to adhd.
Oh, adhd, I think.
I think it was what it studiesaround 80% heritability there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And for me it was like oh, assoon as like I get a diagnosis, like
it was because of my daughter.
And then I'm like looking atmy parents and like all of the family
members like all came out ofthe woodwork.
As soon as well you can see.
Well once you pick up on those patterns.
Right.
That's coming from me as well.

(12:43):
You know I'd never beenformally diagnosed.
Right.
But looking, I'm sure you'veseen like the, the eruption of neurodivergence
content on social now and everything.
And I'm like, oh my God,that's getting really, really, really
close to home.
Right.
So like looking back now andthen it's.
Once you are aware of it thenyou start looking at family members

(13:04):
and stuff.
You're like, oh yeah, that,that, that, that, that it all checks
out.
But when you're living yourlife, you're just living your life,
right?
You don't know.
Yeah.
Awesome.
So you get your genetic datafrom mom and dad.
Half and half you are talking about.
Okay, so you had thesepotential gene comt.
Gene happens to be really bigand important with dopamine regulation.

(13:26):
So you know someone who'smaybe curious.
This is like one of the firstplaces they're looking.
CMT is pretty much availableon most like commercially available
reports.
Right?
Yeah.
Someone's looking at theirreport and they're like, oh, I'm
very curious now.
I just.
Did you know what she wastalking about?
I just downloaded my raw dataoff of Ancestry.
I'm kind of finding out likewhat's happening.

(13:47):
So what are, what are themarkers that someone would be looking
for?
And, and what is that actuallytelling your brain to do with like
dopamine, epinephrine, norepinephrine.
Yeah.
Should you talk regarding theCMT specifically?
Yeah.
So I believe it's.
I believe it's the name of it.
I believe.
Let me qu.

(14:07):
I'm Pretty sure it's 4680.
I believe is.
Yes.
So the name of the mutation,they're called RSID numbers.
So if you have raw data andyou're not going to plug it into
anything you can control F.
You could.
Yeah, you could even.
You want to get this one?
It's RS 460-4680.

(14:29):
If you have an A there, an Ameans a mutation.
So I'm double A there.
And what this means again,that misspelling that worker does
not break down that dopamineas well.
I mean the thing with ADHD that.
Well not just ADHD in general.
How my brain Looks at these things.
There are so many differentflavors of adhd.

(14:52):
Yep.
People think it's just the lowdopamine thing.
That's why they go andprescribe medications that raise
up dopamine and norepinephrineand epinephrine as well.
But there's so many different flavors.
Right.
Like there is the lowdopamine, low iron, high histamine,
low vitamin D, high glutamate,high sulfur, poor methylation.

(15:15):
Right.
These are all, these are all,if you look at these papers, they're
all linked to adhd.
But that doesn't mean everyonehas all those lists of things.
So like I, I think medicine isflawed in a lot of ways because we
treat the label, we treat thediagnosis, we don't treat the person.
Yeah.
But, yeah, so back to the cOMT Yeah.

(15:37):
That's meaning pretty much allthe time.
My body doesn't process these catecholamines.
They're called the dopamine,adrenaline, noradrenaline as well.
And this can also play a rolein estrogen as well.
And that's why trying tosupport, find the right nutrients
to give that gene the biggestfighting chance we want them.

(16:00):
It doesn't mean that if youtake more magnesium, you're just
gonna keep getting more andmore chill.
It's about restoring the deficiency.
So people with a slow comtgene, their gene already doesn't
work as well if they'redeficient in magnesium or sam e,
it's like a quadruple whammyfor them, more so than a regular
person.

(16:21):
But once you fix thedeficiency, you don't just double
your magnesium dose, you'retwice as chill.
Right.
There is the limit there.
That's why it's important.
Right.
Just more is better all the time.
But that's why it's so important.
It's cool to look at one geneto learn for yourself, but to really
give a really good protocol orplan for someone, especially with

(16:42):
something like adhd, you gottalook at more than that.
Right.
To build a comprehensive planto make sure things aren't cross
reacting.
But yeah, that was the first one.
Like that's still one of myfavorite mutations.
I could tell with pretty goodaccuracy just by talking to people
within 30 seconds.
I'm like, yeah, this isprobably a, I call it adrenaline

(17:02):
sensitive.
People can smell it.
I don't, I don't like the word anxiety.
You're not an anxious person,you're sensitive to adrenaline.
Right.
And if we can address that,you're not going to be an anxious
person.
Yeah.
And I think also just likerealizing, like.
And this is one of the thingsthat helps me and like talking to
a lot of women with adhd,like, one of the things that's helpful

(17:23):
is just like, when you know,then there's not a, like a moral
judgment about what's happening.
You just go, oh, well, this ishow my body is wired.
Right.
So, like, if, you know, hey,I'm kind of not going to be clearing
this adrenaline very well.
It's not like I'm a bad personbecause I can't, like, relax after
a stressful event happens.

(17:43):
It's not in our heads.
That's what we're told a lot.
A lot of the time.
And that's what I try to tell people.
You know, the genetic testingcould be very liberating and validating
for people because it's notjust me saying Kumbaya, Namaste,
doing some breath work.
Biochemically, I'm hardwiredto not process.

(18:05):
Don't get me wrong, they'reall great things, but.
Exactly.
And that's why meditation andstuff can be so difficult for someone
when the mind is racing somuch more.
And that's why we.
Again to this later.
There are so many supplementsthat affect that gene that people
have no idea about.
That's making them more anxious.
Their mind's racing more.

(18:25):
And even if it's not givingyou panic attacks or like, oh, my
God, I feel so anxious.
Very subtle changes in brainchemistry, especially for a sensitive
ADHD brain, I could sense.
Very slight.
We'll talk about some patterns.
I pick up on real lifeexamples later on.
But I could feel like lastnight was one of those times up.
I triggered my histamine withsomething I ate.

(18:48):
I feel my brain moving alittle quicker than I'd like.
And when I try to sit down anddo work, it's not that I'm horrifically
anxious.
Some days I am.
Right.
That's just a sensitive person.
Right.
But very minor changes fromdoing the wrong foods or supplements,
wrong times for things.
The brain's moving too quick.
Screw this.

(19:08):
Do something else.
You know, that could be a bigfactor for people with this brain
sometimes.
It's not that the brain isn't.
They gotta word this.
It's hyperactive.
Right.
So we should not.
We should be very mindful ofanything that can add to that activity.
Add to the load.
Yeah.

(20:19):
And I think for women inparticular, so it's obviously either
sex can.
We can present both ways, buttypically we look at like a physical
expression with boys and weSee more of that internal mind racing
with women.
And so that's why they callit, like more inattentive.
Although both can be both, butabsolutely that feeling of mind racing.

(20:40):
And someone could look at youand like, oh, well, you're just like
sitting there.
But they don't realize thatyour mind is going a thousand miles.
We have 40, 37 browser tabsopen right now.
Trying to figure out.
And the thing with women too,you know, it's.
I think the sad reality too,for a lot of these things is women
throughout history have beentrained, you know, trained to be
subservient and kind ofwithhold, you know, speaking their

(21:03):
truth with things.
And that plays a role.
Not just like that imprintsthe DNA as well.
What gets passed down as well,like we've done.
There have been studies thatshow grandchildren of, let's say,
the example of Holocaustsurvivors, they weren't even in pregnant
or anything, but multiplegenerations later, their DNA is still

(21:26):
imprinted.
We've seen some of that inAfrican American populations due
to the traumas of slavery.
I'm not aware of any studythat's assessed that with women through,
you know, systematic sexism.
I mean, we're talking how manyyears have women been able to vote
and stuff?
Right.
So to me, it's all one and thesame here.

(21:46):
Like some sort of trauma thatthis, These changes in nprinting
are also linked to things likeADHD 100%.
And then also if you have likegenetic predisposition, then we add
in the environmental factorsand then both those.
Both the environmental factorsthat change the genetic expression
and the gene are passed downacross gender.
You know your stuff.
I love this.
And then.
Yeah, this is great.

(22:07):
Love it.
Yeah, you're absolutely right.
But most people don't know that.
And they're not thinking about it.
They're just like, well, whyam I screwed up?
And that's like literally thestory we're telling ourselves.
Like, why can't I.
Why am I broken?
Right.
Yeah.
What's wrong with me?
I do want to talk about morethan just cmt, but I have to ask
you because I don't feel likeanyone is having this conversation.
Yes, there is a big componentwith CMT and adhd, but also with

(22:29):
estrogen metabolism and sowomen who.
So.
And estrogen potentiates, dopamine.
So when we add all of thisinto the soup.
And histamine.
Yeah, and histamine.
Oh, and estrogen.
And histamine is a wholeexcitatory things.
Yep, I'm getting excitatory.
I have to hold the histamineestrogen conversation.
Yeah.
Can we talk about the COMT andestrogen and how that relationship

(22:50):
could play out as well?
Yeah.
So you know, there's multiplemetabolism pathways of estrogen as
well, and there's very rarelytrying to get.
I called them linear pathways,where it's just a straight line.
Right.
Normally it's like a web or anetwork of things.
So the COMT could be slow, butanother gene that breaks down a different

(23:11):
metabolite, you know, down acertain pathway may be overactive.
Right.
So this is where it can getreally complex figuring out.
All right, this one, thiscognitive machine works too slow,
that works too fast, but thatwould affect this one.
And that's where really crossreferencing really is highly important.
But yes, that estrogen, Imean, on top of nowadays just with

(23:34):
all the xenoestrogens and the endocriners.
Right.
So like on top of that geneticaspect to higher estrogen, we also
have things in our bodies thatare mimicking that estrogen.
So that's why that estrogendominance is such a huge thing nowadays.
And as we mentioned, we'llbriefly touch on it here, that estrogen,
histamine follows estrogen.

(23:55):
That's why most PMS issues,menopause issues, are due to that
higher histamine.
When I work with femaleclients and I see a lot of histamine
related mutations, I askedthem how your cycles, any major pms,
and I kind of know the answermost of the time because the more
issues there are there.
But as I mentioned thathistamine's linked to adhd, so connecting.

(24:20):
Yeah, yeah, talk about thatbecause I know you were talking about
that on, on Instagram recently.
Yeah.
So the histamine's anexcitatory neurotransmitter.
It revs up the brain, itpromotes wakefulness and alertness,
and histamine also stimulatesadrenaline, adrenaline release.
Adrenaline stimulateshistamine release.

(24:41):
So people may get rashes orhives when they're super stressed.
Why is that?
Because histamine, peoplethink of histamine, think of rashes,
allergies, which is true.
That's all they think about.
Yeah, but that's why that can happen.
But it also.
They prescribe anti.
Sorry?
Yeah, they prescribeantihistamine meds for anxiety, sleep

(25:03):
and possibly ADHD at times.
Some, some doctors will usethat off label.
So like my approach is why arewe blocking our body's ability to
sense the histamine?
Let's just lower it.
Right.
And this is where the certainsupplements the certain foods can
really make that effect, havethat effect, especially if you're
a highly sensitive person.

(25:25):
So whether.
Whether it's adhd, ocd,autism, spectral disorder, these
are all the types ofindividuals that I see the devil
really, really, really can bein the details.
You know, your.
Your kid who has troublefocusing, you give them some homemade
soup that's very high in histamine.

(25:47):
I had.
My wife made some chickensoup, what week or so ago.
I had.
I'm not kidding you, I hadthree sips of it because it was so
good.
I had little sips and I'mlike, I barely had any.
I think I'm going to be okay.
I was noticeably more revvedup, not anxious, but overstimulated,
because that's the thing too.
It's anxiety versus overstimulation.

(26:10):
What's the difference?
Anxiety has a fear component,a conscious fear.
I wasn't afraid.
I wasn't worried about, youknow, I wasn't worried about upsetting.
I wasn't worried about a thing.
I just felt revved up.
And when I sat down to try anddo work, I called breaking the barrier.
That's what I used to say tomyself when I was a kid.

(26:31):
I didn't know it was 80.
I didn't know it was executive dysfunction.
Right.
Yep.
So I like, how do I break the barrier?
It's so much harder for me tobreak the barrier.
Noticeably harder with threesips of homemade chicken soup broth.
And like, I say that topeople, they're like, you're out
of your mind.
There's no way.

(26:52):
But for people that are highly.
The reason.
The reason why we are how weare, again, any of these neurodivergent,
whatever that umbrella term,it's because of these genetics.
We are so sensitive becauseour cells are hardwired that way
genetically.
And at least for adhd, that isa highly, highly heritable disease,

(27:13):
AKA it is the geneticsprimarily leading the way of that.
So all these weird littlepatterns I picked up on.
I feel a little off this, off.
When I first started seeingpeople, I'm like, is this really
gonna, like, help people asmuch as I think?
Because maybe I'm just themost sensitive person in the world.
Turns out people are justhating it.

(27:35):
Yeah.
Turns out around, I think 80%of my clients are highly sensitive
people.
Yeah.
Why is no one else helping them?
Because they're not looking inthe details.
Finally, enough.
Oh, I took this supplement.
I feel worse.
Oh, no, that never happens to anybody.
Just take more.
Oh, my God.
Do they know that it's raisingtheir adrenaline.
And for someone that's alreadysensitive to it, you're going to

(27:57):
feel so much worse.
Double down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I think.
And again, like, I think thisis why it's so helpful to have information
again.
Like you.
You are now understanding your body.
You know what's happening.
You can say, hey, I drank this soup.
I happen to know histamine isgoing to amp up my brain.
I happen to know this kind ofsoup is high in histamine.
I can put that together.

(28:17):
Or as most people, they mightjust feel revved up.
There is no world in whichpeople who did not have that genetic
data are going to be like, oh,yeah, it was totally that chicken
soup.
Like, there's no, There's.
They don't understand.
Right?
And so to me, like.
And that was like.
That was part of, like, thepower I took from a diagnosis is
like, it's.
It doesn't.
It's neither here nor therewhether we call it a label, diagnosis,
whatever, but it's more like,oh, now I know how my brain works.

(28:39):
If you look at your genetics,you go, oh, now I know how the blueprint
is written.
And then I can decide what I'mgoing to do with that information.
But, like, now I know what theblueprint is and I can say, okay,
well, if I'm responding thisway, well, maybe it's just like,
how my dopamine is clearing,or maybe, you know, it's this, this
histamine that's driving this response.
But you can just.
You can understand yourselfinstead of making this judgment of,

(29:00):
like, I'm doing it wrong or,like, why?
What's wrong with me?
Why am I so revved up orwhatever, you just go, oh, yeah,
hey, I'm listening.
I'm.
Pay attention to my body.
Here's what it's doing inresponse to this stimulus.
No, exactly.
And you hit the nail on the head.
And these.
This is what I've been helpingpeople do with the genetics for years
now.
But my.
The stuff I've been working onlately is trying to figure out how

(29:24):
do I educate people, how totune into their body.
And I figured out the best wayto do that is to teach people.
Let me put it this way.
When I was thinking aboutmaking resources for people to learn,
whether it's adhd, let's justsay adhd, headaches and anxiety,
I realized all the contentwould be the same because high histamine,

(29:47):
high glutamate, highadrenaline, high sulfur.
Those are just a few examples.
All of those are linked to allof these different things.
The better question is why dosome people with high glutamate get
ocd, some get adhd, which bythe way are usually very often diagnosed
together.
Right.
Because again, these are,these are man made constructs about

(30:09):
the labels that we're using.
Instead of, I call the,instead of the top down approach,
looking at the label thebottom up the cellular pathways.
I'm at the point now where Ican tell right away something raised
my histamine.
What is it?
I go back and look, oh, thatfood had a little bit of onions that
has sulfur that stimulated me.

(30:31):
Right.
So I'm actually makingprograms based on each pathway because
I want you to try.
Imagine if you could try, ifyou could map out your whole day,
supplements, foods, habits andhighlight it and say, wow, I have,
I had a lot of glutamate likearound lunchtime today.
And then you look at yournotes and say, wow, I couldn't get
crap done after lunch today.
Right.

(30:52):
Because it's breaking it up bythe underlying pathways is more of
your issues.
Glutamate is more of it.
Histamine.
Right.
And again people, it's peoplelike where's the data, right?
Where's the data showing thathaving a tomato for dinner can mess
up your sleep?
But we're not running studieswith only highly sensitive people,

(31:14):
right?
We're, we're, we're.
Data does not really.
We can't live and die by thedata when you're a highly sensitive
person because they don'tcheck to see if you're highly sensitive
or not before they do these studies.
And what I'm sharing here, I'msharing it here specifically because
individuals that are highlysensitive, no matter what the umbrella
label is, you are theindividual that is most likely to

(31:38):
be much more sensitive andreally respond very well to these
minor food and supplementthings that someone else may not
even notice.
Yep.
I also think that you know,there, this, it can be a tendency
with a highly sensitive personto get obsessive, right?
To be like, oh my God, every single.

(31:58):
Okay, do I need to assessevery single thing?
And there are some broadbrushstrokes that can help people
initially before.
And then we can, they can likestart going deeper into their own
personal data.
But you can say like, okay,broadly it might be a bigger challenge
with histamine if you are, ifyou have adhd.

(32:18):
And then we can say, okay,well here's some high histamine foods.
And then like start to like,okay, let's do a low histamine diet
and Then you can start to,like, parse out.
Well, maybe.
Which one of those thingstends to make you feel worse?
Exactly.
The goal is not perfection.
The goal is not a no sulfur,no histamine.
It's also, like, not possibleon this planet.
And do it.
And that's why when I workwith people, people that have a lot

(32:40):
of dietary things, I'm like,listen, don't even look at this list
of foods.
We got to start with just a few.
No one will ever have theperfect diet.
It's all about figuring out,like they say, avocados are high.
Histamine.
I have avocados every morning.
I'm fine.
I figured out what's reallymore or less problematic for me personally.
And the key is learning tobacktrack because you are going to

(33:03):
get thrown off again.
But you got to be able toregister it and reverse engineer
and look up those foods andgo, oh, I know, that's one of my
problem foods.
Now let me add it to themental bank, right?
Then you learn where the donot cross where the red.
Or you write it down like me.
Put it in a sticky note.
Yeah, yeah.
I do think the N equals one iswildly important.
It is a gold standard, actually.
And I.
What I think people miss inthings like research studies is when

(33:26):
you're looking at such a widevariety of people, there's going
to have been people who arelike, when you average out, you have
to realize, like, an averagemeans that there's outliers.
An average means that thereare people on either end of the spectrum
and how they respond.
So just because, like, theaverage of those people showed this
one result.
Well, like, also partly, maybesome of those people got thrown out
of the studies.

(33:46):
Women.
It's a really hard thingactually, to get women into research
studies because we're cyclingand people don't like to study how
women respond differently indifferent parts of the cycle.
So half the time women weren'teven in the studies.
If women were in the studies,you know, again, like, we.
You might.
You might not respond how theaverage did.
So I always want to, like, putthat big asterisk.
You know, people are like,well, literature shows.
I'm like, well, literature.

(34:08):
Literature showed, like, amajority of people in this one study.
And we don't have any idea whythey might have thrown somebody out.
And we also don't have anyidea what those outliers did.
So maybe those outliersresponded completely differently.
And you have to know if you'rean outlier.
Right.
Like, you can start with theaverage on the data.
But you also have to say like,well, maybe I was one of those people
who just didn't respond theway that everybody else did.
And I think that that meansthat you, as the N equals one is.

(34:30):
That's the gold standard.
It's not like whatever thestudy said.
I could not agree more.
And you're 1,000% right.
We are all genetically different.
If you're testing, let's justsay, I don't know, a supplement for
depression.
And it boosts serotonin signaling.
The people that respond the best.

(34:51):
Read between the lines here.
They probably have moreserotonin issues, right?
If you're not fixing the rightsystem for you, you're not going
to respond.
Well, I always say thatclinical data is inherently flawed.
I'm not a big math data guy asa PhD scientist because I understand
we are all genetically different.
They are not checking peoplethat are in the same ballpark of

(35:12):
genetics.
They're not checking to seethat they want to find.
And then the whole, you havethe whole evidence based community.
No, that's a bunch of bs.
Where's the randomized control trial?
But we are all very, very different.
And we can't be living anddying by data.
Each one of those dots on agraph is supposed to be a biological
replicate.
So like when I was working inthe lab, I'd grow cells in a petri

(35:35):
dish, I would put some in asmaller dish, I would do my experiment.
The big dish would keep growing.
A couple of days later, therate would be like split up again.
I replate them, I do theexperiment again.
But do you see how it's thesame exact cells genetically each
time?
That's called a biological replicate.
If we do mouse studies, themice are all brothers and sisters.

(36:00):
They're inbred, right?
So it makes it so much easierto get significant changes because
everything is so much moresimilar, controlled.
That's not the case withclinical data.
And it really throws a wrenchin everything living and dying by.
All right, this supplementdidn't hit that random mark of statistics.

(36:24):
It's just shy of it.
Let's throw out the entire hypothesis.
This supplement does not helppeople with ADHD.
What the heck are you talking about?
I see 20 of the peopleresponded amazingly.
Nope.
They want to get rid of it.
They want to make a drug thatfixes everyone with one thing.
I work the opposite.
I want to go per I.
I only look at the person infront of me and figure out what they

(36:44):
need to feel their best.
Of course, if you come to mewith focus ADHD issues, I'll take
that into account.
But I'm not looking at you assomeone with adhd.
You got to figure out whatnutrients you're lacking.
Exactly.
Because it's just a man made construct.
Have you started to see.
So I have a much.
This is not a randomizedcontrol study, but I started looking

(37:06):
at genetic data in the lastcouple of years and I was for people
who had more of thepredisposition for ADHD just because
I'm a curious human, notbecause I am like trying to do a
randomized control study.
But I started seeing like,well, what other nutrient pathways
might be impaired.
Some of the things I saw likemore than three quarters of the people,
issues with zinc, issues withvitamin D, issues with lactose, issues

(37:31):
with gluten.
Those are just some of thethings that I was going to look for
anyway.
So interesting to me to seethat cross pollination and I was
like, well of course,obviously like this is driving these
genetic pathways.
Have you seen where there's alot of correlation just in the humans
that you're working with,where like most people who are more

(37:51):
sensitive are like lookinglike they are, you know, tending
to have problems with vitaminD transport or something like that?
Yeah, yeah.
So it's interesting because mypractice, it's all genetic based
and I think I word this.
Let's just say a mutationaffects 20% of the population, but

(38:14):
three quarters of my clientshave it.
Why is that?
It's because if you come andsearch me out, the holistic genetic
scientist, whatever you wantto, whatever bucket of adjectives
describe me at this point, I'mnot the first person you see.
And why is it so high?
Because I'm artificiallyselecting for people that have worse

(38:36):
genetics.
Right.
Because why, why is no otherADHD protocol working for you?
Why do you need a protocolbuilt for you?
Because the genes could bemore skewed.
So it's not even so much justfor adhd.
But I see the methylation,vitamin D, histamine and choline
is a really big one that I seeas well.

(38:58):
Choline's really, reallyimportant for neurotransmission.
And like if you're, if you'remedicated on Adderall or Vyvanse,
people can get, you know,muscle cramps and lower back pain.
That's actually your bodystealing choline from your muscles
to supply your brain with thecholine because the Adderall, the

(39:19):
medication is making you fireso quickly.
You're depleting these things.
We need the co Factors.
Yeah.
And again like you mentionedthe lactose, the gluten and the way
I look at that is what'sdownstream of lactose intolerance,
what's downstream of areaction to gluten, Histamine.

(39:40):
Histamine regulates inflammation.
So to me I view it as.
It's still the histamine signaling.
We're still looking athistory, right?
Yeah, it's, it's just different.
It's different like costumesor different at the very top of it,
a different player at the top.
But at the end it's all gonnaflow through to the histamine pathway.
Even vitamin D.

(40:00):
The lower your vitamin D, thehigher your blood histamine levels.
So that's why allergies arevery often co diagnosed chronic allergy
issues with adhd.
The histamines, you kind ofsee my brain.
Histamine is histamine is histamine.
You're kind of like justdressing the pig in a different costume.
Right.
But that's why focusing onthat pathway itself, food supplements,

(40:24):
what things could make that worse.
Like, I can't exercise laterin the day.
Exercise releases histamine.
So most of you listening,probably ADHD or know someone, if
you're gonna do exercise, doit earlier in the day.
I do way better in the morning.
Yeah, I don't take any pre workouts.
If I exercise later in theday, I will be up and just be overstimulated

(40:44):
from that histamine.
Yep.
I'm very similar and I have, Iabsolutely figured that out too.
Just like my own response, I'mlike, I can't, I just can't.
Like I feel great actually.
Like in the morning it helps.
There's like an aftergloweffect with attention and focus and
I'm like, okay, great.
I can like dial in.
Evening, not so good.
Especially if I'm trying to doany like heavier duty cardio.
Like I could do a few weightsbut like I can't do.

(41:06):
I can't go hardcore.
So a lot of the things we'retalking about, we're dancing around
a little bit genetic expression.
And I would love for you tojust kind of like, you know, having
the genes for somethingdoesn't mean that it's going to express
necessarily.
I can look at blood work.
I can see someone might have agenetic expression or, sorry, a predisposition
for like high cholesterol.
But your cholesterol's, youknow, fine.
Like I have a woman I'mworking with who I love because she's

(41:27):
in her 70s and she has been soDialed in.
Like she's been working withlike holistic practitioners and nutritionists
for like 40 years, likeprobably like before I was born.
Right.
But she is so healthy and yether genetics predispose her to insulin
resistance and obesity andhigh cholesterol and none of those
are present for her, so.
And she's just kind of likefine tuning her health.

(41:49):
Right.
So there are genetics, whichare obviously extremely important,
and that's what we're talking about.
And to me like that the reasonI'm so interested in having this
conversation is, you know,that kind of is what led me down
this path was my genetics.
So it was wildly useful.
But it doesn't mean thatthey're necessarily expressing and
we can change how things areexpressing or not by things like

(42:09):
lifestyle supplements, food.
So maybe share with us alittle bit about like, what does
it mean for something to express.
And then when you're talkingabout these things that we use to
help or to shift that expression.
Yeah.
So genetics are the code, howthe worker functions.
Right.
It's called epigenetics.
That is how many times I gottaword this, how do I put this into

(42:32):
the worker analogy?
How many workers are you creating?
Right, so think of these workers.
You could have, you couldeither make one worker, one comt.
Protein, or you can make five.
Right.
In reality, there's very largenumbers of each one of these proteins.
Not one per cell.
But certain things we do canindeed regulate that.

(42:53):
And I wouldn't so much thinkof it in terms of on or off.
I'll think of it more so.
Of more.
More or less.
Right.
Like you're not going to justadd the co.
Yeah, the dimmer switch.
Right, yeah.
So these proteins, theepigenetics, and here's how it does
tie back to genetics though.

(43:14):
No matter how many, how muchyou do or don't express a gene, that
gene will always be mutated.
So this is where it comes intoplay too.
How many mutations are on that gene?
For some genes, you have onemutation, that may not be a big deal,
but if you look at a surfacelevel report, it all depends on how
you're reporting these thingsat the end of the day.

(43:34):
Because any of these, allthese direct to consumer companies,
none of them are clinicallyvalidated and they're throwing whatever.
You don't see the back end.
All you see is the reportsthey show you and you're assuming
them to be accurate.
And I could tell you I've seenthe back end for a lot of these things,
they are not accurate.
They are Not a lot of the time.
They are not looking at enoughinformation here.

(43:56):
They're trying to tell you youdon't methylate as well, based on
four different mutations.
Like, that's.
There's.
There could be 15 mutations ina single gene, right?
Thousands of mutations.
So what you mentioned someonehad all these risks but didn't actually
have them show up.
Well, a.
It is the lifestyle, right?
If you're prone to insulinresistance, you eat low glycemic

(44:18):
carbohydrates, you move yourbody, you make sure you have the
right nutrients.
Like, yeah, it may not be an issue.
Or maybe that company's reportthey gave you just maybe something
had a word of this.
Let's just say they said basedon 10 genes, 10 mutations, you're
prone to insulin resistance.
Well, what if you have 15gene, 15 other mutations that make

(44:39):
you less prone to insulin resistance?
How do you know where thecards fall at the end of the day?
So that's one thing to keep inmind as well.
And with epigenetics, a lot ofpeople aren't aware of.
A lot of people.
Hop on.
Epigenetics.
You could control your epigenetics.
You can't control yourgenetics, which is true.

(45:00):
If you rest, get goodnutrients, limit your stress, your
epigenetic health improves,without a doubt.
But not saying this is you.
People kind of almost make itsound as if, like, I can't sit here
and be like, let me turn offthe comt gene.
Let me turn off this g.
You know, you don't.
You don't.
We can't pick and choose.

(45:21):
It's kind of like our all.
Either you have healthyepigenetic expression or unhealthy,
right?
But it is true.
Why do you feel better?
All right, let me put it this way.
Why do you feel worse rightafter eat McDonald's epigenetics,
right?
Any change in mood?
Millisecond, microsecond by microsecond.
Our cells are changing theirgene expression all the time.

(45:44):
You go to the gym, you have agood afterglow.
Why did that happen?
Because your cells change whatgenes they were expressing.
So they made more dopamine,they made more endorphins.
You're walking down thestreet, listen to your favorite song,
you feel great.
You're on cloud nine.
A car almost hits you likeswerves near you, your heart drops.
Changes in epigenetics, right?

(46:05):
So these happen really, reallyquickly as well.
So who.
Who's the one dimming thelight switch?
Right?
That's the methylation systemthat's the MTHFR that I'm sure a
lot of you have heard of.
We could touch on it, butpeople act like that is the end all,
be all.
That is not true.
If you guys hear someonetrying to sell you just because your

(46:27):
MTHFR gene's broken, you're broken.
That is a bunch of snake oil stuff.
You need to have a lot moredata than just that.
It is important.
But that's just the newsensationalized thing that gives
real genetics a bad namebecause it's not that that simple.
Nonetheless, there's othergenes that are turning the switch
on and off or up and down.

(46:48):
So your genetics dictate yourepigenetic capabilities as well.
So you kind of see how it'slike you have the genetics, you have
the epigenetics, but it'salmost like the nature dictates the
nurture as well to some degree.
So there's just like, there'sa strong interplay basically that's
also not just happening.
Like, it's not just like, oh,I did this one thing one time.

(47:10):
We're having constant changesbecause that's how our bodies are
designed to have adaptationmoment to moment.
And things that we're doing,eating, taking, are going to change
that expression, but it's alsogoing to change it in that moment.
We haven't like completely.
We haven't changed the system.
We were just saying like, isthis system working more efficiently
or less efficiently or morehow we would want it to?

(47:32):
Unless maybe how we.
Yeah, I mean there is.
And the thing too is there'sthings that are easy to epigenetically
switch and things that are harder.
When you think about childhoodtrauma, psychological trauma, ptsd,
all you got to do to heal that.
But what happened is the wronggenes were turned up or turned down.
That's what, that's what happened.

(47:52):
You weren't born with that.
How do you fix it?
Well, you just go to thosegenes and you undo what you did in
the first place.
Now, of course, not evenremotely that simple.
Right.
It is not easy to just dothat, but on paper that's what we
need to do.
But why do you think thingslike MTHFR are linked to ptsd?

(48:13):
They are linked to all thesediseases because the light guy that's
doing the light switchesdoesn't work as well.
And that is why I'm notagainst, you know, methylfolate for
the right person.
Right.
But it's not a universalprescription for people.
But that's why these righttargeted nutrients based on which
worker different Workers eatdifferent things for lunch.

(48:35):
Think of it that.
See, that's a great analogy.
And what one worker eats,mthfr, has a different lunch than
the MTRR gene or the AHCY or cbs.
These are other methylation genes.
It's a cycle, it's a circle.
So if you were to draw dots ina circle and you drew the line through
the dots, which point of thecircle is the most important?

(49:00):
They're all the same.
Right.
It's so mthfr.
I don't think it's moreimportant than other methylation
genes.
It's just by far the most studied.
Right, but that doesn't meanthat it's more or less important.
A lot of these othermethylation genes that no one's really
heard of yet, that there'sdata coming out, they're linked to

(49:22):
all the same issues that MTHFRmutations are linked to.
Get, that's the focus for everyone.
Let's just blast that, blast that.
Advertise, advertise fearmonger about it.
But not everyone with MTHFRneeds methylfolate, especially if
you have that comt mutation.
And there's more that goesinto methylation.

(49:42):
Exactly.
Yeah.
I'm trying not to go too, toodeep here.
I could ramble for like fourhours about that.
I appreciate that.
But here's, here's somethingthat I think is actually important
in that discussion.
So a lot of it's like wefigured out like, okay, we were going
to provide, you know, methylforms of B12 and folate, for example,
in a lot of supplements andparticularly in supplements that

(50:03):
are either supposed to be airquotes, energizing or stimulating
in, in some way, but also evenin like things like energy drinks
and whatnot, like it's, it'swild to me because people bring me
all the stuff that they'retaking and it's like I call the bag
of supplements, but it's alsolike the bag of like, I'm like, if
it goes in your mouth, tell mewhat it is.
And you know, lots of energy.
It's not food, it's.
Yep, yep, it's on.

(50:24):
And I, if you add it all up,sometimes it's like hundreds of thousands
of, of like times the rda.
And I do not like live and dieby the rda.
But you could say, hey, that'sa line in the sand, right?
Yeah, of, of methylated B12.
It adds up so fast.
And then also, so we're, we'repushing way hard on B12 but not on
any other B vitamins, which isalready A problem, but also, like,

(50:46):
you're.
You don't realize how muchyou're stimulating your system.
And like, for me, like, I.
I have a.
Like, I'm pretty.
I'm pretty like, dialed in onhow much like, like methylated B12
I can handle.
And it's not very much.
And you go over.
You feel that quickly.
Yeah.
And like, no sleep.
And I also, I can't.
I actually can't do methylfolate.
So I, like, I have to do like,the adenosole.

(51:07):
What is it?
No.
Is that the folinic acid?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep.
So.
And I feel great.
So if I'm doing folinic acid,no problems.
If I keep my.
Either I, you know, change theform of B12 or I have like, you know,
maybe I can go up a couple fewhundred times the rda, but if I start
getting into that echelonsalons of thousands, then like, I
feel like complete trash.
But again, like, people justdon't realize that they're like,

(51:29):
I'm not.
I'm not taking anything or I'mnot, you know, and they don't realize
it's also like in proteinpowders, like literally.
Anything where, like, I'veseen greens powder.
Throwing it in everything.
They throw it in a jointhealth supplement.
They throw it in this.
They throw it.
I don't even know why.
Why is it everywhere?
I just don't understand.
Because there's no regulation.
There's no regulation.
You don't need to properly educate.

(51:51):
And.
Yeah, it's why I love doingwhat I do, because there's all these
risks and people thinkingthere's so much more you could help
yourself methylate than methylfolate or methyl B12.
I mean, creatine, choline,glycine, taurine, these are all great
things.
And glycine taurine, for thevast majority of people, they calm

(52:15):
down the nervous system andthey help with.
They help lower homocysteinewithout doing the methylation.
I actually love utilizingglycine as I call a methyl sponge.
So when you take glycine, oneof my favorite supplements, when
you take glycine, your bodymethylates it three times into trimethylglycine.
Okay, hold on.
You're have to tell peoplewhat methylates is.

(52:35):
Yeah, yeah.
So methylate is like putting asticky note on certain molecules.
So when comt.
That MT stands for methyltransferase, it transfers methyl
groups.
So it'll take a methyl group,a sticky note from the molecule.
Sammy puts the sticky note ondopamine, puts the sticky note on

(52:59):
adrenaline, puts the stickynote on estrogen, they are now inactive.
They can't do anything in the body.
So what was the first thing?
How do we initially.
You're talking about glycineand glycine.
Yeah.
So glycine.
Yeah.
So glycine, your body willmethylate that in three areas.
So what I tell people to do.
If people are experimenting with.
With B vitamins, glycine isamazing at soaking up excess methyl

(53:23):
groups.
So, like, if there's a.
There's a multivitamin or Bcomplex that, like, is a really good
formulation.
Someone's just a littleoverstimulated on it.
Adding a little bit of glycinejust binds.
Can bind up some of thosemethyl groups.
Or if I overdo it with methylvitamins, I'll have a little spoonful

(53:44):
of glycine.
It tastes like sugar.
I love it.
So I drink it with water at bedtime.
That's literally me too.
I do the big scoop.
Yeah, it's great.
Kid.
Kids love it too, because itliterally truly does taste just like
a water.
It tastes literally.
Yeah.
So not everyone needs the methylfolate.
The methyl B12.

(54:04):
I don't do methyl B12.
I have, I think around 400micrograms of methylfolate.
So, like a low, moderate dose.
But they sell 5 milligrams.
15 milligrams is prescription methylfolate.
I don't want to mess this up.
I'm pretty sure that Deplin.

(54:25):
I'm pretty sure deplin is 15milligrams of methylfolate.
Yes, 15 milligrams.
I have never come acrosssomeone that does well on 15 milligrams.
Like, I.
I don't have.
Why, why is this a thing?
People are taking milligrams,five milligrams of methylfolate because

(54:47):
they were told by theirnaturopath or whatever, hey, you
have mthfr.
Take this.
How many mutations do you have?
If Your MTHFR works 80% aswell as it should, if you're not
in a bunch of toxicity, mold,things like that, if you're not eating
processed garbage, you may noteven need any methylfolates.
But if you're someone that itworks 20% as well.

(55:09):
Yeah, you may want to considerthat, especially if you're living
in mold or you're not eatingthe best diet.
So.
And again, this is where thedosage comes into play as well.
And yeah, it's just crazy to me.
People always say, how.
What is it?
The vaers, the vaccine,adverse reaction, whatever, where
you report.

(55:30):
People always say, oh, well,you know, that's undervalued.
You know, the people that areanti vax.
We won't go there.
But just saying in general forthe concept here, like, oh, we under
report vaccine injuriesbecause people don't actually go
and report it.
What about supplement related injuries?
Of course I'm going to get allthe horror stories.
Right.
That's why people hire me.
Right.
But the stuff I see,especially coming from other holistic

(55:55):
practitioners.
What the heck are you doing?
But it makes perfect sensewhen there's little to no training
on supplement pharmacology.
Right.
You don't need to be a masterin genetics.
You need to, you shouldunderstand pharmacology before you
use these things, if you ask me.
Well, I, and I think, youknow, when people are talking about
pharmacology, they're usuallytalking about drugs.

(56:15):
Yep.
So it's, it's harder becauseyou're right, there is, there's very
little training.
It's all the same conceptsthough, right.
So there's.
I was trained aboutpharmaceuticals to make chemotherapy
drugs and immune.
That's what my thesis was on.
But it's all the same conceptsbecause you're learning how things
interact with our cells.
So the targets, right.
The receptors, they bind toand if.

(56:37):
Receptors like a baseballmitt, that catches something.
Right.
In order for your cells tofeel vitamin D or dopamine or adrenaline
or histamine, your cell's gotto catch it.
And that.
Those are my favorite mutations.
You can't catch things as well.
But where was I going with this?

(56:58):
I totally blanked.
Yes.
We were talking about pharma.
There's the ADHD trailing off, right?
Yeah.
The pharmacology.
Yeah.
So the, it's, it's still thesame system, the same cell.
It's just now instead of.
I took all that knowledge, Inever wouldn't have been able to
do what I do now without that training.
I Never regret my PhD.
I left conventional med.
I left all of that.
But I never regret it for a day.

(57:18):
I would never be able to lookthis deep without knowing that.
But it's all the same stuff, right?
It's just a different thingcoming in.
Different mechanism, the same thing.
The same parts of cells thatinteract with drugs.
The cells don't have drugs don't.
Drugs and medications don'tbind things that vitamins and nutrients

(57:40):
don't act on necessarily.
Some drugs target things thata supplement can't.
But a lot of them, there'snatural things.
So to me it's all one and thesame here.
I'm Not a nutritionist, but Ibelieve pharmacology is very similar
to nutrition except maybeinstead of it looking at how you
burn more fat metabolism.

(58:00):
When I'm talking about thehistamine foods, the glutamate foods,
making your issues worse, it'skind of like pharmacology.
I'm just seeing the.
The glutamate in the food ispharmacologically interacting with
your cells just how aAlzheimer's medication would.
So it's all one and the same.
Yeah.
I think where there's alsothere's an important level in that

(58:22):
we need specific nutrients forbiochemical pathways within the cell
to work.
So there's.
Where if we're missingnutrients, then we're going to have
those cellular functions notworking as well.
So that's one part where we'relooking at the nutrients either not
having enough or having animbalance so that those cogs in the
wheel, we use that analogy,are not working as well.

(58:44):
And then there are otherthings that are other chemical constituents
of food or supplements likehistamine that are going to impact
different cellular receptors,which is a little bit different than
how we are optimizing if cells work.
I got that right.
Yeah.
Yes.
And now so I mean even we lookat the patterns I mentioned before.

(59:05):
Low iron.
Yep.
Low vitamin D, high histamine.
Get those examples.
What do the.
When you really dive deeper,it makes perfect sense because you
need iron to synthesize these neurotransmitters.
Low vitamin D, vitamin D, whenit gets into, when it binds, when

(59:27):
your cells catch that with thereceptor catches it, it binds your
DNA.
It literally tells your cellsto make more workers that make serotonin
and dopamine.
High histamine in the braindoes the opposite.
It tells your cells to stopmaking those workers.
So you see how of course allthree of those would be linked to
ADHD along with a lot of othermental health related things.

(59:51):
Right.
Because they're downstream of that.
It's not like, oh, I have less iron.
No.
But what's the missing piece there?
I'm missing iron.
I can't make my dopamine as well.
I have too much histamine, Ican't make my dopamine as well.
I have low vitamin D, I can't make.
So you see how they allfunneled towards the same thing.

(01:00:12):
That's why I love and I try topreach, I'm trying to educate around
thinking in terms of thesepathways because it really simplifies
for people instead of thisseparate anemia.
But it could be this thing too.
But that when you understandthat, it's like, oh, well, it all
comes back to the dopamine andthe neurotransmitters.
Just different paths, youknow, different flavors of that.

(01:00:36):
Everyone with ADHD has, Idon't even want to say messed up.
They have differentneurochemistry than someone without
it.
Right.
I'm not going to say whetherit's good or bad.
It depends what environmentthat you're in.
Part of that is hardwired, genetic.
Right.
But because we don't want tochange who we are.
Adhd, like my sensitivity, Iused to view it as a weakness.

(01:00:58):
Now I'm like, this is great, Ihave to feel more out of life.
Yeah, the highs are high, thelows are low.
But like, I'd rather have thatthan be, you know, bored in life.
Right, exactly.
So trying to figure out whichflavor that person is.
And I like to say we're all aunique shape.
The goal is never to changethe shape of a person.

(01:01:19):
The goal is to take thosesharp edges and kind of smooth them
out a bit.
Right.
When I get overstimulated, Iwant to not be as overstimulated.
But what I really like to tellpeople is you're going to get overstimulated
again.
That's life.
But my goal is to make sureyou have the tools to recover at
least 80% faster.
So let the stress happen.

(01:01:41):
Your sensory overload, it iswhat it is.
But instead of it being likethe whole day, I want you to set
a timer for an hour, maybetake some nutrients, do some tools
that we give you and get backto normal sooner.
So it's a lost hour, not alost day or week.
Beat yourself up.
Exactly.
Then you ruminate, then youstart shaming yourself.

(01:02:03):
Why am I so different?
Why am I so messed up?
It's the self fulfilling prophecy.
Yeah, 100%.
I like the idea of setting a timer.
I might steal that one.
But yeah, my timer is an hour.
And what I'll do is if I feelreally not in it, I may, you know,
take a little bit of Lemonbomb or take something kind of just
settle the nerves a little bit.

(01:02:23):
I may go for a quick walk or something.
Or honestly, I may just likesit down and scroll on my phone and
no longer than an hour.
Right.
And then I'm back to it.
And I've noticed that thathelps a lot with giving yourself
the space to do that.
Because people wired like us,we're, we're not meant to sit and
grind out work for Eight hours.

(01:02:44):
Unless it's.
Unless it.
Unless it's the occasionalhyper fixation.
Then we're gonna do it for 16 hours.
Right.
But that's not every single day.
All day.
Yeah.
Then if only we could reallyharness that.
Truly.
And, yeah, if we could controlwhen we turn it on and off, yeah,
we'd be unstoppable.
But I actually feel like this is.
Like this is a complete sidenote and is totally how my brain

(01:03:05):
makes those weird connections.
This is what all the Disneyprincess movies lately are about.
Like Frozen, the.
Oh, it's not.
It's not just Frozen.
There's another one that was.
Oh, it's wicked.
It's.
It's all like, hey, you have apower, but you haven't learned how
to harness it.
Like Elsa.
I don't even know if you'veseen this.
They're kid movies and.
Yeah, they're kid movies and.
And they're female focusedgirl movies.

(01:03:26):
But basically, it's like she'sgot this wild power to be able to
freeze the entire world, butshe just can't control it.
And, like, the whole movie isher learning how to control it, like,
with wicked gifts.
Yeah.
And so it's like, okay, well,it's crazy and out of control and
breaks things when you don'tknow how to harness it.
But if you can figure out howto, like, put a few bumpers around
it, then you can.
Then that it can be powerful.
Right.

(01:03:46):
So it's.
It's not just like yes or no.
It's like, okay, well, it exists.
I can't make it not exist.
How can I, like, harness thisto work a little bit better for me?
So, Yeah, I absolutely thinkof that.
Yeah.
You got to change yourenvironment to you.
Right.
Once you really understandwhat you need to work better.
And that is not what you seein shows.
What, you know, neurotypicals,you know, glamorous sides.

(01:04:08):
It's not, you know, we haveour own way of doing things that
works for us.
I've seen those and memes.
It's like when you tellsomeone with ADHD that it won't work
that way.
And it's like, that's all theammunition I needed right now.
We're more motivated eitherjust to show you.
Oh, let me show you many different.
Ways to do it.
I will prove.
Yeah.

(01:04:30):
So this has been a reallyenlightening conversation.
I've been super excited todive deep on the nerdiness.
I even have more nerdyquestions that I didn't get to because
we could probably just Talkfor hours and yeah.
We could do it next.
I'd be more than happy.
Maybe we'll do a part two again.
This was great.
Yeah.
Didn't get to ask you aboutDRD2, but.
Oh, I was actually going totouch on that.

(01:04:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right, we'll hold off on that.
Yeah.
Give me, give me two minutes.
Give me the.
Give me your two minute.
Cliffs Notes.
Because that's another geneticmutation that is.
That is often correlated.
Yeah.
So the comt affects how muchdopamine is released in the brain.
But as I mentioned, your brainneeds the baseball mitt to catch

(01:05:12):
the dopamine.
So you feel something.
Yeah.
So like when you take anantihistamine, what does it do?
It blocks the baseball mitt,but it doesn't get rid of the baseballs.
So comt regulates how manybaseballs are in the baseball field.
But the mitt doesn't work as well.
The baseball doesn't.
Just having more baseballs,you don't necessarily think.

(01:05:33):
Feel that.
So there's many receptors,dopamine receptors.
Dopamine can bind to thedopamine receptor too.
That can be mutated.
That's when I check.
Very common in my practice.
It's very common.
And I'll see usually moreneurological things when someone
has more mutations therethat's linked to adhd, depression,
increased risk taking,obesity, addiction, because you can't

(01:05:56):
get high off your own supplyas well.
So this is where it's like comt.
I'm higher dopamine, but Idon't feel that way.
We gotta look at how well yousense it.
I'll touch on briefly thedopamine 4 receptor.
I think that's reallyinteresting that it's believed that
that that's also linked to adhd.
That receptor was mutatedmillennia ago.

(01:06:19):
They believe that was one ofthe main drivers that when we were
ancient ancestors, we werehuman species was still in Africa,
what initiated to migrate individuals.
Interesting question.
Yeah.
That had that dopamine 4 mutation.
If you're someone that lovesnovelty, that always need to be doing
something new.

(01:06:39):
And that's probably most ofyou listening right now.
Right?
That's a, that's a, that's acomponent, a tenant of ADHD.
Yeah.
You likely add this dopamine 4receptor mutation.
You love to travel.
Love.
You can't just keep doing thesame thing that you got to try something
new all the time.
So boom, something happened.
Those individuals that gotthat mutation, they're more likely
to be like, huh, let's go over there.

(01:07:01):
And they're like, Jimmy, whydo you want to go over there?
Well, I don't know.
It just looks different over there.
Let's go check it out in there.
Let's go.
So they go and explore andthen that's what initially led us
to leave Africa and disperse outward.
So it's like the curiosity.
They call it the wanderlust gene.
I just wanted to share that.
I love that that's explainingthe evolution of our entire species.

(01:07:25):
ADHD perhaps being anevolutionary advantage for the people
that wanted to be the explorers.
Like, I'm trying to thinkwhether it's, I don't know, like
all these ancient explorerslike Lewis and Clark or, you know,
Christopher Columbia.
I bet they probably had thewanderlust gene too, right?
Yeah, you totally said, likenow what's open in my brain, I'm
like.
Is like the entire UnitedStates just basically like we're

(01:07:46):
all pre wired because anyone.
We're melting pot now, though.
So you got to remember we are.
But like, still like for a reason.
For hundreds of years.
Like, all the only people whoare coming are not the people who
want to stay safe.
They're willing to get on a boat.
They're willing to get on aboat and come.
Even it doesn't.
I'm just going to say thateven though, even though we're a
melting pot, all the melters.

(01:08:06):
All melters have come over here.
Yeah, yeah.
All the melters that came overhere, they must have more of a proclivity.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, you just think aboutit like, especially like, you know,
again, like when we're comingon boats, it's not like an airplane
that takes you, which is stilla long time.
Like 7, 8, 12 hours.
You're like, this is going totake me like four months and I don't
even know that I'm going toget there.
I might die at sea.
You got to have a certainpersonality type to go get on that

(01:08:28):
boat.
So I mean, I think we have.
I think we pre selected awhole bunch of.
A whole bunch of those kind ofpeople for.
For us.
I do want to.
I have a few.
I have a few questions thatare just fun, like completely random
questions, but I'm not goingto ask you those yet.
That's my final four.
Sure.
For women who are strugglingwith ADHD and they're really just

(01:08:49):
like, hey, I want to know someaction points.
First of all, I'm going to beable to point them to you and connecting
with you.
If we want to look into somemore of that genetic piece, people
want to look at the individualthings for themselves.
But, like, again, with some ofthose broad brush strokes, knowing
also that there is that comtrelationship both to dopamine and
estrogen.
You know, for women who arelike, I need a couple of things that

(01:09:10):
are just like, here's.
Here's my immediate takeawaysthat are probably things that might
support me or at least areworth doing.
That N equals one experimenton what are some of those things
that are going to help with that?
Yeah.
So I think allergy testing isreally important.
Allergies are way more thanjust itching, sneezing, runny nose.

(01:09:33):
I got allergy tested.
I was very allergic to peasand almonds.
I ate them every day for lunch.
Just during my PhD.
I could not write my.
It was so hard for me to writeand to get things done.
I was allergic to mice.
I worked with them every day.
Oh, my God.
I can't imagine being in a labin your.
But I.
I never.
I never sneezed.
Wow.
I never got hives.
I never got itchy skin.

(01:09:54):
I had to go to five differentallergists because they wouldn't
test me.
They told me I didn't have allergies.
They gaslit me because Iwasn't sneezing.
But that was a big factor forlowering my histamine.
Yeah.
By getting rid of thesethings, changing my experiments,
like overnight, it may notturn up anything, but it could really
be life changing for people.

(01:10:14):
And you want to get a skinprick test or an ige ease.
And Eric, igs are more sensitivities.
They're not true allergies.
That's one thing I recommendand especially for the women I really
love Pycnogenol.
It's an active ingredient inpine bark that's been shown to block
certain genes that are linkedto allergies and histamine.

(01:10:39):
So that's been shown to notonly help with ADHD and cognitive
health, it's also been shownto help with every symptom of PMS
and menopause withoutaffecting hormones whatsoever.
So going back, this is kind ofa good.
Connecting the dots.
What we discussed.
Right.
We talked about how highhistamine can be linked to adhd.
It can be linked to PMS issues.

(01:10:59):
Yeah.
So you look at the clinicaltrials for this one nutrient.
Well, yeah, it makes perfectsense that it could help with those
different things.
Also helps with blood flow as well.
I think that's a great one forpeople to try the one potential very
minor risk.
I always love giving all the information.
It Helps with blood flow,which means it can lower blood pressure.

(01:11:21):
So if you're someone with verylow blood pressure, you can still
try.
Just be mindful.
If you notice I feel a littledizzy getting up.
Yep.
Little too low for you.
Right?
You don't want to lower that anymore.
But the allergy testing, thepycnodenol and I think the vitamin
D is a really big one as well.
Yeah.
Without even looking deep intothe genetics.

(01:11:42):
Some people that baseball mittis so beaten up with the genes for
vitamin D they need to go upto 100 for vitamin D.
Very high in the north.
This is not a recommendation.
And you're talking about the.
On a blood test.
You want to be on the bloodtest that nanograms from U.
S unit.
So 3100, the very high end of normal.

(01:12:03):
I don't recommend that for everyone.
If the receptor is 10mutations there, we get you up there
sometimes we're trip.
We're 3Xing the vitamin D.
The regular doctor is sayingthat's too high.
They're like screw you.
I could finally get stuff done now.
Right.
So.
But.
But I would recommend peopletry experimenting, get your vitamin

(01:12:24):
D levels up to an 80 or so fora month or two.
See how you do.
I've seen all the data peoplethat are very anti vitamin D supplementation.
You're not going to run intoissues trying that with a little
bit of vitamin K.2 for a monthor two.
Guys like that is such a blipin the grand scheme of things.
Should you be redlining 100nanograms per milliliter for years
without looking at anything?

(01:12:44):
No, I'm not saying that.
Right.
But experiment a little.
That n equals 1 there.
Those are some big ones.
And also what you said too,you know, I mentioned to you I'm
working on these.
I'm not sure when this willair, but I think it should be at
least the histamine minicourse should be out that I'm making
because I'm really trying to.

(01:13:04):
I don't want to have to seegenetic testing to work with everybody.
Right.
I want you guys to be able tohave resources to again map out your
day and try to look to seewhich things I'm doing, what.
What list of things and whatpriority are top concerns for me.
I'm really excited for thatbecause that's how you really make
the most change.
Getting this out to people.
Right.
And having people learn for themselves.

(01:13:26):
Because your doctor isn'tgoing to really know you as well
as you know you.
You just need A lot of itcomes down to patterns.
But in order to understandpatterns, you got to know what to
look for.
You got to know where the dots are.
And this, this educationplatform going to be doing is all
about showing you the dots andyou look at your life and say, yep,
that dots on my map.

(01:13:47):
That dot isn't.
That dot is.
That dot isn't here.
All my dots.
Let me try experimenting withthose dots.
N equals 1 and reap therewards of that.
There's probably.
I don't want, I don't want totake us down another rabbit hole,
but there probably is, thereprobably is a case for AI in this
one too.
Like, I'm a very.
I don't know how you are about AI.
I'm very.
Throw all of the things I'mgetting out of this, like putting

(01:14:09):
in some data and like, okay,like, here's the data, here's what
I ate.
Here's my questions.
Like knowing like, I upload afood list and I'm like, here's the
high histamine foods put inmy, my food diary.
Here's my food diary.
When you look at the fooddiary and you look at the, the high
histamine food list, what'sthe first five things I should look
at?
Right.
Like, I like.
Yep.
Well, that, that's, that'swhat I, that, that's what's down

(01:14:29):
the road.
Right.
I know what you're looking atright now.
It's like, I'm still verycurious to see.
I have seen certain wrongsupplements can raise histamine that
are very helpful.
We're not going to go downthat road right now.
My point being, I've seen thisphilosophy, this approach help hundreds
of people that I worked with.
I'm very, very curious to seeme breaking it down a very palatable

(01:14:51):
way.
Low cost.
I'm doing some free resourcesas well.
I'm just so curious to hearthe feedback.
How many people, their issuescan be largely.
You know, I'm not saying thisis a magic cure all to everything,
right?
Not what I'm saying here, people.
But how many people could feelnoticeably better by not having broccoli

(01:15:12):
for dinner, by not havingtomatoes for lunch, by not having
black coffee and glutathionefor breakfast, by not these things.
And I'm very curious to see,maybe this is only a smaller niche
thing for highly sensitive people.
But hey, that's probably.
You listen a lot of people.

(01:15:34):
Sorry.
It is.
I guess my point was I'm verycurious to see the responsiveness.
How many people are like, thisreally did change my life.
Like I've seen it happen forpeople but I'm also really selecting
for those more sensitive people.
But yeah, super excited for that.
And I also want to offer adiscount code for all your listeners

(01:15:55):
as well.
Yeah.
For the deep dive analysis,what would you want it to be?
What do I want it to be.
Like, like for so people knowlike whatever.
What do you want them to enteron my website to get the discount?
Just so they know it's like coming.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How about focus?
Sure.
All right, we will do focusand then that'll save you $250 on

(01:16:16):
a deep dive consult with me.
I'll say that, you know bigpicture view, it's cheek swab.
I could take a lot of geneticdata from other companies.
I hand make the reports and wehave an hour long call.
This is not a pre printedreport where you have all the same
gene check to someone else.
I really custom tailor this.
I need to get to know you morebefore we give you the exact plan

(01:16:37):
and hand pick the right thingsfor you.
I don't want to give you 40pages of reports and you're more.
You can't do anything withnervous than ever.
I'm doing a different wayapproach of doing it.
I cannot work with nearly asmany people.
That's not my goal right now.
I'm worried about make.
I'm concerned with making thebest possible impact on each person
first.

(01:16:57):
I'll scale that later.
Right.
I don't need to ship outmillions of kits tell people a tiny
bit.
But yeah, so that'll save you250 on that and the focus will be
the code for that.
Amazing.
That's awesome.
Thank you so much.
So I'm gonna put, I'll putthat link in the show notes and I'll
make sure and put that, thatcode in there as well.

(01:17:17):
I think the other link realquick too.
So it's the, the, those.
The histamine core stuff I mentioned.
Oh yeah.
I think I'll have you drop a link.
There's going to be a 15minute big picture view kind of about
the pathway stuff.
Right.
So that'll be the other linkthat you'll get sent to.
But from there it's kind of achoose your own adventure.
Right.
I want to make sure could be15 minutes of your time.

(01:17:39):
I have a feeling you guys aregoing to like it.
There's a full length versionof that about how cells work then
going into histamine becauseI'm trying to see how much complex
science Can I make palatablefor the average person just so you
can really understand yourbody and not need to run to a different
coach or doctor for everylittle thing of brain fog this and

(01:17:59):
that.
When it might be the wrongsupplements or wrong foods or more
habits or wrong habits foryou, then you can.
Figure out pretty quickly.
Yeah, I love that.
And I absolutely have seen alot of relationship to that.
That histamine.
Yeah, he's personally as well.
I know you have a hard stop.
I have a fast four and I'mgonna see if we can get through them
like super fast.
Question number one.
I'm a big music fan.

(01:18:20):
Do you remember your first concert?
Yes, my first concert was Warp Tour.
Warped tour?
Heavy metal concert?
No, probably early middle school.
Early middle school.
I picked you for a metalhead maybe.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Yeah, I was lead guitar in aheavy metal band for a bit, but now
I'm all about electronic music.

(01:18:40):
That's fun.
Oh right.
I remember that.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
I'll have to hold that.
That's all I listen to whileI'm trying to.
While I work.
That helps me.
That helps me focus.
Okay.
Question number two.
What's on your nightstand?
My nightstand it is.
I have my highly sensitiveperson sleep kit number one, 101.
I have my wax high quality earplugs.

(01:19:02):
I have my eye mask.
I have my nose strip.
I have my mouth tape.
I have my blue blocker glasses.
And let me think, I probablyhave probably two or three glasses
of water there because Ialways keep bringing one up from
the kitchen over and over andover again.
Yeah, the 18 glasses, that'skind of, that's.
That's a sign I look for.

(01:19:24):
Do you have a morning routineand if so, what does it look like?
Morning routine for me is wake up.
I was doing breath work.
I gotta get more back intothat again.
I was doing good for a bit,but usually I'm wake up, up light
breakfast, go to the gym, weardown the body so the mind can be
sharper.
Right.
Like kind of how you mentioned there.

(01:19:45):
Then I'm coming back home,cold shower and starting my day.
And if I'm not training thatday, usually walk in the morning.
But I'm really trying to getthe sunlight as early as possible,
get that circadian rhythm going.
Well, here you got yourvitamin D.
And I hear with that coldshower you're spiking your own dopamine.
Cool stuff.

(01:20:05):
Any, any unusual talents orsomething that you're proud of that
nobody knows about you?
I.
I used to do A lot morepainting, painting, drawing, also
playing music throughout my life.
So I was like Allstate trumpetin high school.

(01:20:26):
I kind of, any inch, anyinstrument could kind of give it
to me.
Give me five minutes, I'll beable to to play something for you
there.
So yeah, whether it's theaudio side or the visual side of
art, very, very creative.
Comes with the territory,right, with the adhd, all that stuff.
And yeah, not a lot of peopleknow that.

(01:20:47):
Not a lot of people know thatabout me.
Yeah, I love that.
I'm way into music, like Isaid, but I played instruments and
all that too, so.
Awesome.
Well, I'm so grateful for your time.
I'm so excited for all thewomen who are going to be helped
by listening to this and also,you know, may looking a little deeper
into their own genetics andfiguring out those pieces of like,
hey, what's triggering me?

(01:21:07):
How can I help?
How can I feel better in likea fairly straightforward and simple
way.
So thank you so much for thisconversation and yeah, I will drop
all the links in the show notes.
Thank you so much.
Really hope you guys listeninggot some value out of this.
And until next time.
Hey love, thanks for making itthis far.
If you're hearing this, you'reone of the masters, magical statistical

(01:21:30):
few that listened all the wayto the end and I so appreciate your
engagement.
I hope that means the messagetoday resonated with you and you're
taking away a tool trick oraction step that will help you have
your best feeling brain.
If that's you, I have a favorto ask.
So many more women need tohear this Message and your 30 seconds
to leave a rating or reviewwill help them hear it.
Just go to the show in yourpodcast player and scroll down until

(01:21:52):
you see the stars to leave aquick rating and make my day while
you're at it.
Thank you so much.

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