DH, 2 Revisit: Harry Was Bleeding

Episode Transcript
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(00:16):
This is episode three hundred and seventyseven of a loohomra for July first,
two thousand and twenty three. Welcometo another episode of Alohama, the fandom's

(00:40):
original Harry Potter book Club. I'mAlison Sigurd, I'm Jeff Hutton, and
I'm Shamni Willis, and with ustoday we have a very special guest.
No, you were not seeing things. If you're watching the video. This
is in fact our own host,Tracy's twin sister Titia, tell us a
little bit about yourself, how yougot a Harry Potter and about you sure,

(01:03):
um well, I'm a Hatstall.Actually. When I took the Potter
our tests, they made me choose, and I chose Griffin Door. I'm
between Griffin Door and Raven Claw.I like to consider myself a Neville type
Griffin Door though. That's an excellentrole model in my muble life. I

(01:23):
work in higher ed and I'm alsoa writer, and I got into Harry
Potter. One of my friends inhigh school gave me the book to read.
I think it was maybe the thirdor fourth book. Was like the
movies were coming out at that time, the third or fourth movie and um,
yeah, and after that just keptreading all the books. I will

(01:44):
say, though I've only read allthe books once or twice, that's okay,
oh wow, perfectly valid. Ican't stand it when people gate keep
and say you're not a real fanif you've only read the books once,
if you've only seen the movies.Just people cannot dictate how you engage with
something. If you feel like you'rea fan, and then you're a fan,
and that's a beautiful thing. Thankyou. I would like to know

(02:06):
you mentioned working in higher ed?What do you do in higher Ed?
So I managed the writing center atthe college I work at, and I
also managed to help manage the firstyear experience program. Fascinating. And isn't
Tracy a librarian? She is verysimilar. So writing is really in your
guys's blood, isn't it? Whichis kind of strange because both of our

(02:29):
parents are in healthcare, so Idon't know where it came from. But
I'm a wizard rocker who works atAmazon. My mother was a nurse and
my father was a pastor. Workthat one out on your own time.
Well, we are so excited tohave you here this We can't wait to
hang out and chat with you.This is going to be so much fun.

(02:50):
So today we're going to be talkingabout chapter two of deathinitely Hallows in
Memoriam. Now, admittedly, Ihaven't read this chapter in a while,
so it was really nice to goback and kind of refresh myself and what
it was about. But we originallytalked about this chapter on episode one fifty
two was called this is Not aDeath Chapter and that was from August second

(03:14):
of two thousand and fifteen. Thatwow, that was wow, that's crazy.
But there were hosts Rosie and Alison. You were actually on that episode
along with our editor Patrick and ourguests. Was Holly, do you remember
about that episode? I don't.I think I've mentioned this before, but

(03:35):
I am terrible at remembering specific episodes, Like I just I don't know why
I forget, And then I'm like, oh, I was on that episode.
Looks forgot about that. I'm startingto get to that point myself,
and I haven't been on half asmany episodes as you have, so don't
feel bad. Yeah, I mean, but I've done that kind of since
the beginning. So yeah, it'sa but I'm sure that's a that's a

(04:02):
great lineup. So I'm sure,it was a fantastic episode. It was
a long time ago. That waseight years ago and over two hundred episodes
ago. So it'll be interesting tolook back and go back and listen and
see if what you say today matchesup with what you said then. Oh,
definitely, yeah, yeah, Iif I had had more time last

(04:23):
week. I just ran out oftime last week. I was going to
go back and look at it again, but I just ran out of time
to do it. So well,now you're totally uninfluenced by your previous yes,
so I'm sorry if I repeat everything. No, it's fine because when
you look at the earlier chapters inthe first couple of books that we haven't
discussed since the first couple dozen ofepisodes, we look at the host roster

(04:48):
and say, wow, that's ablast from the past, because almost none
of those people are here anymore exceptfor Cat. Yeah, but now it's
it's funny. We have a lineupof hosts from the last time this came
up that includes somebody who's not onlystill with us, but here today.
That's getting rarer and rarer. Yeah. Before we get into this chapter this

(05:09):
time around, we need to expresssome gratitude to our Patreon sponsor for this
episode. So many thanks to Madisonfor sponsoring this episode for us. Thank
you. And if you would likean ad free version of Alohamurra or watch
this incredible video and see how onesided the housing arrangement is, i'm can

(05:33):
head over to our Patreon and youcan become a sponsor for as little as
two muggle dollars a month. Justgo to patreon dot com slash Alohama to
find out more information. And beforewe dive into the chapter two, we
need to do our shout out MaximaO from episode three hundred and seventy five,

(05:56):
which I didn't put the title of, hold on hello. It was
Chamber of Secrets chapter sixteen, theChamber of Secrets ghost oreos. Um,
what a great at all oh.I was on that one, so they
were. There were lots of reallygood comments. Um. But I picked

(06:16):
one this week from a user namethat I didn't recognize because I love highlighting
new commoners and awesome user names.So this comes from Phoenix Feather goes Whoosh,
which is awesome. Love that name. Um. Also, I slightly

(06:38):
picked this because this topic still makesme laugh. Um. And the debate
about it makes me laugh, soanyway, so they said, I really
don't think it is ridiculous that wizardsdidn't have plumbing for a long time and
actually just did what they needed todo where they were standing. It was
quite common to do so in theBaroque period for muggles. At the time.
Many people thought that the plague wascoming from the bathing water, so

(06:59):
people stopped being as much as theycould while covering their scent and perfume.
At the same time, they mostlyjust did their business whenever, often in
the public eye. Another fun thing. Watching the king doing his morning routine,
which included sitting on a chamber pot, was quite a spectacle and it
was an honor to watch. SoI always thought that the information on Pottermore
was quite realistic, and at leastwizards cleaned up after themselves, and then

(07:20):
they put a winky face, whichalso made me laugh. I'm with them
on the bathwater that is very verylikely where a lot of those germs were
spread. The bit that sticks outin my memory. A lot of you
can probably relate to this. Ivery very much in many capacities live what

(07:41):
I call the Khan life. Iseem to be at More and more weekend
conventions all the time now in differentcapacities. You all can relate to that,
right, Oh yeah, no,but that's okay, But okay,
okay, so at least teachers withme. But when you live the Khan
life, you encounter a lot ofcon funk, which is to say that

(08:01):
some people don't feel the need toshower. They just, if they do
anything at all, they cover themselvesin an absurd amount of axe body spray
or perfume they've got on them.They don't understand that that is not meant
to be a way of cleaning yourself. It's supposed to enhance, not cover

(08:22):
anything up. So the part aboutjust using perfume to cover their scent and
thinking that that counts as cleanliness,that part, Fortunately, out of all
the things on the list, that'sthe only thing I think we can still
relate to. But I really wishthat we wouldn't. Like, if you
go to an anime convention like theones I go to all the time,

(08:43):
just give them like Pikachu shaped soapsor something in a little gift bag when
they walk in. But please,please, just it's a three day convention,
take at least one shower. Youhave the time. I would also
just like personally feel really gross.I just don't like feeling gross. I
do think it's it's interesting because Imean, we know now that bubonic plague

(09:07):
came from fleas and rats, andthe fleas feeding on the rats and then
transferring over to humans and things,So it is kind of funny that like
they avoided bathing because that would getrid of the fleece. But yeah,
I also I also laughed a littlebit at them bringing up what was called

(09:28):
the groom of the stool, youknow, which was like the the like
highest honor position you could get inlike royal households in Europe, because you
were with the monarch at their mostvulnerable time, so you like had their
ear at the It was like theequivalent of sitting on the toilet with your

(09:48):
phone. I guess. Oh mygosh. So it always just makes me
laugh because I like knowing history andstuff. It always makes me laugh that
this caused such a stir for people, that this information of like yeah,
wizards just used to do whatever andthen clean it up with by magic,
and people were like, oh no, they wouldn't do that. That's gross.

(10:11):
How could this happen now. Iwas like, Yeah, meanwhile,
back in the day, Hey,what are you doing this morning? Oh,
I'm gonna go watch The King onthe Crown? Good time, The
Game of Thrones. You die,you might do, my guys. Oh,

(10:41):
I guess anyone who's probably listening tothis podcast is most likely in a
place where they do have indoor plumbing. So just don't take it for granted
because some places, some places stillit's it's for a lot of people,
it's unimaginable. But there are stillparts of the world what they don't have

(11:01):
that I just thank god that Ilive here and not there, because I
would not survive. Yeah, rightnow, very happy. Yeah, that's
why. Possibly, of all theclassic Disney movies that I grew up loving,
the truest thing that was ever saidis that part in Hercules where you

(11:22):
first meet the fates and they're passingthe eyeball around and the one that sees
the future says, you have noidea. See. The Disney movie that
I think has the most relatable lineis tomatoa is saying, I just love
free food. But that's me.That is fair. That's the best kind

(11:48):
of thing true. Well, freeis the best flavor of every Man.
Absolutely, anyway, thank you somuch, Phoenix feather goes Whoosh for your
great comments. I'm not just sayingthis, the people who comment in our
forums have the best and most funusers. Yeah. It's just even if
you don't like reading what they haveto say, reading their names is fun.

(12:11):
It's the best part of reading commentsis being like, oh, what
user names have we got today?And I'm just saying there's plenty of room
for everybody. The Internet is awide place, so hop on our forums
create your own fun user names sothat we can read that along with your
comments on this show, because weget a lot of joy out of that.

(12:33):
Absolutely. Are we ready to discussthe chapter? Let's go three turns?
Should do it? Chapter revisit chaptertwo in Memoriam. All right,

(12:58):
so chapter two of Deathly Hallows inMemorium. So here's the deal. Harry
is trying to pack for this bigtrip into the real world where he's going
to be hunting horrorcruxes for the foreseeablefuture. When we look at the contents
of his trunk, we learned thatHarry is selectively sentimental and he has a
tendency to hold on to literal remindersof how guilty he feels for surviving.

(13:22):
If only there was a term forthat. Speaking of sentimental, we get
to read the obituary of Albus Dumbledore, written by his friend and colleague Elfius
Doge, and though it paints avery impressive and one sided picture of Dumbledore,
it also forces Harry to realize thatthere's a great deal about Dumbledore he

(13:43):
never knew, and now he hasto learn answers and finds still more questions
from other people, And just whenhe thinks he can't feel any worse,
he also reads an interview with RitaSkeeter in which she teases the upcoming release
of her newest book, The Lifeand Lies of Albus Dumbledore. Man this

(14:03):
chapter, there's so much emotion inthis chapter, like it sets up everything
that's going to come in this book, you know. I mean, obviously
it's the second chapter, but itstarts so evocatively. I mean, the
very first line of the chapter isHarry was bleeding. Like that's it.

(14:26):
This is the first time we seeHarry in this book. It's just Harry
was bleeding. And in the subtextit says again, yeah, and it
selp me thinking, I was like, what an interesting first line to see
Harry in this book of because he'sgoing to do a lot of the literal
and figurative bleeding in this book.He's physically bleeding right now, but he's

(14:48):
going to start kind of emotionally bleedingin the rest of this chapter two.
So it's it's very man, It'sit's a good start. It's a crisp,
clean grabs your attention and really setsthings up. It's quite brilliant.
I've said it before, but DeathlyHallows has the best I think writing craft

(15:11):
out of all of them. Andoh man, every time I read it,
it's just it's magnificent. And Ithought of a connection this morning when
I was adding my notes to thedock that I never really thought of before.
So someone else may have pointed thisout. But this is the second
chapter of this book, and oneof the mirrors of this book is the

(15:33):
fourth book. The second chapter ofthe Fourth Book is the only other instance
apart from this chapter, where eventhough Harry thinks about other people, he
reflects on other people, he remembersother people. He's the only character in
this chapter. He's the only onethat happens in Prisoner too. In the

(15:56):
first chapter of Prisoner, he's theonly character physically there. In owl post,
I'm count I m okay, nowI'm tugging at my own thread here
I count the owls. I countthe school owl. Maybe not as much,
but definitely m Errol and Headwig chapterHeadwig is certainly yeah, but apart

(16:21):
from a brief see she's an activecharacter in the first chapter of Prisoner of
Azkaban because she's awake, she's doingsomething. She interacts with Harry in the
fourth chapter of the second chapter ofGoblet of Fire. I don't think she's
even there. I don't recall.I think she might be out delivering m

(16:41):
is she I don't remember. It'sHarry alone in his room and it's just
him and his thoughts, and atthis point it has really okay, so
I will amend my further point.So in Prisoner of Azkaban chapter one,
he's by himself, but the owlshow up. Second chapter, same of

(17:04):
um Goblet of Fire, same thing, writing letters to other people, but
in this chapter he's alone with histhoughts. Yeah, and this is not
something that's good for him, becausehe's got more emotional baggage than almost anybody
in these books. Yep, that'swhy his name's on the cover. Probably
would leave them to yell. Yes. He already screams in this chapter.

(17:30):
It's oh my gosh. Yeah,but we'll get there. But first he's
bleeding and he's gonna go take careof that. But as he goes out
the door, he steps and hebreaks a teacup that's sitting outside his door.
Um, Harry's having a rough tie. Yeah, and he assumes it's
a prank. But later after theywhen the Dursleys are leaving and Dudley says,

(17:55):
I don't think you're a waste ofspace, he reflects me. He
says, actually, maybe that wasn'ta prank. And I know we talk
a lot about how, oh Dudleyreally starts changing in order of the Phoenix
after the dementor attack, and that'skind of where this stems from. This
kind of builds from there. Butwhat I'm wanting to know was, because
I couldn't think of any are thereany hints, specifically in half Blood prints,

(18:21):
that would indicate Dudley's change that wouldlead him to putting this teacup here?
Because sometimes this feels like a bitof a weird jump and I know
in these later books we don't seethe Drsley's as much, so maybe that's
part of it, But I'm justspecifically in Half Blood, is there anything

(18:44):
from when we see Dudley that mighthint that he's kind of had a change
of heart towards Harry or he's startingto I can only think of one thing.
When Dumbledore is giving his final,like gathing review of the Dursleys,
and he mentions that they've mistreated Dudley. It mentions briefly that Dudley looks like

(19:07):
he's trying to work out when hewas ever mistreated. I think that the
Dementor attack definitely had an effect onhim mentally. He's not living in a
household where he is taught to processhis emotions, because I don't know if
anybody anywhere in these books is taughtthat feelings are okay ever, but Dudley

(19:30):
certainly isn't. His parents aren't goingto teach him that. We don't know
what Dudley gets up to at school, but I would imagine that his fifth
year after the Dementor attack was probablyhim not bullying so much because he's probably
lost some of his nerve or possiblythe opposite, he may be going to
the other extreme and really overcompensating.But now in the sixth year, when

(19:51):
Doubledore shows up, he's obviously stillscared of wizards. But then Dumbledore's final
thing before he leaves the house ismentioning that the Dursleys have done a very
very big disservice to Dudley, bringinghim up the way that they have.
And I think this is finally Dudleytrying to figure out has everything I've done

(20:12):
up to this point been wrong?And then just as soon as he starts
thinking about that, Harry's gone forthe rest of the summer and he doesn't
see him again until about now.That's true, it also could have maybe
gotten Dudley thinking about the ways thatthey mistreated Harry too. You know,
maybe that kind of opened his eyesa little bit and that's why he was

(20:33):
like, oh, maybe I shouldchange how I do that. Yeah,
okay, which I also kind ofwondered because we see Dudley and we think,
oh, well, maybe underneath allof that braddy exterior there might be
a decent human being in there,And then it makes me kind of wonder

(20:55):
what if, like years back,he had had his realization and became friends
with Harry. Like, what influencewould that have had on Petunia and Vernon?
And would that have maybe changed theiropinion and change how they treated Harry
if they saw that him Dudley weregetting along like, it would have been

(21:17):
a whole different a whole different situations. But I think it would have made
Vernon very very like he's a veryvocal guy. Like he is. He's
a big old, blundering bully whojust has to express his opinions to everyone
because he thinks he's right. Ithink that Dudley being nice to Harry would

(21:40):
have confused him so much. Hewould have had no idea what to say.
He would have just been just noddingand grunting, and he just he
would have become so verbally backed up. He doesn't know what to do.
And then the boys go off toyou know, have a walk or whatever,
And as soon as they're gone,he starts unloading on Petunia and she

(22:03):
just sits there and nods and pats'sshoulder and says, it's all right,
dear, it's fine, have abrandy, because that's how she would solve
that. I feel like that putsthem in a very catch twenty two because
they absolutely spoiled Dudley. They doanything he wants, right, and so
I feel like they'd be pulled betweenif Dudley standing up for Harry kind of

(22:30):
bowing to what he wants and whathe's saying, versus their internalized fear of
Harry. And I mean, Imean they I'm thinking about sorcer Stone at
the very beginning when I think it'sVernon has the thought of like, well,
we wouldn't want Dudley being especially mixedup with a child like that,

(22:55):
you know, and I feel likeit would be so ground and like world
shking to both of that. Yes, then they would really be in a
very for them, a very toughposition. It shouldn't be a tough position
because you should be treating him fairanyway. But I think they'd really be

(23:15):
caught between. And that's a veryinteresting thought, right because Harry is obviously
a stand in for James Dudley.I think in that capacity could be a
stand in for Vernon because Vernon can'thit Harry. He threatens to hit Harry
Budding. Never Dudley hits Harry,right, But Dudley hits Harry for years

(23:41):
and says, oh, well,boys will be boys, because that's the
catalyst for all the rage that Vernonnever got to unload on James. Vernon
can't beat up James, Vernon can'tbeat up Harry, but Dudley Vernon can
beat up Harry James, and theyjust shrug and say, well, boys

(24:02):
will be boys. And he letsit happen because he doesn't understand it.
But underneath that's part of his justificationfor watching it unfold that way, because
if it was the other way around, they would stop Harry from beating up
Dudley real quick, And if Dudleywas nice to him, that would be
worse because they wouldn't know what tosay to Dudley. They wouldn't want to

(24:25):
tell Dudley he's wrong, because theynever do that, but they wouldn't want
to tell Dudley, oh, it'sfine if you want to be friends with
Harry. That does make sense.Do you also think that if Harry didn't
go away to school and they wereforced to be together all the time as
like preteens and going to adults wherethey had their own opinions, they would
have been closer to You mean,if Harry and Dudley had both been at

(24:48):
home while they were going to school. Yeah, instead of Harry always leaving
for the year. Because if you'reonly with somebody for two months, I
mean, you can be close,but how close true? Interesting? You
know, I don't see. Ithink that that would make what would make
that even more complex? Like let'ssay they both went to public school.

(25:10):
That would not only mean that Dudleyand Harry are around each other all the
time, but then you also havethe introduction of Dudley's peer group, because
I don't know how easily Harry.Harry makes friends pretty quickly when he gets
to Hogwarts, and people are dividedon him for years because of things that
are really outside of his control,but he still he maintains a pretty good

(25:33):
core of real friends. I don'tknow how easily he would have found his
friends at public school, but Dudleyclearly has his gang that they refer to,
so that would have also, Ithink had an influence. Then Dudley
doesn't just have to worry about howhis parents will feel if he starts being
nice to Harry. He has toworry about how his friends are going to

(25:55):
feel if he's being nice to thefreaky potter kid. Well, because we
know when they did go to schooltogether, right, because they went to
primary school together. That that's partof the reason why Harry was so isolated,
is because nobody wanted to cross Dudleyand his gang. And so I
wonder if maybe, I mean,I almost feel like Dudley would actually make

(26:19):
the clean break of everything after hegraduated, you know, like I feel
like he would kind of still gothrough emotions he had been going through until
he got done with school, andthen he would kind of make the clean
break and move on and become thisnew person, just because it feels like
he's still trying to figure things outhere at this point. And also,

(26:45):
I don't think he'd give up thatsocial capital. That would be a really
hard thing to give up. Butdo you think it would be different though,
His social circle would be different ifhe was friends with Harry, And
maybe if he and Harry were friends, their relationship would be like a solid
brother like relationship and you wouldn't feellike you needed to be a bully.

(27:06):
Maybe. I mean, we doknow that it was mentioned somewhere that Harry
and Dudley maintain kind of a cordialI think it was called like a Christmas
card relationship, and they'll like gettogether every once in a while and the
kids will play and whatever, andthey'll be like, we're fine, you
know. So that was part ofthat apocryph Like that just info dump of

(27:33):
apocrypha that the author unleashed at somepoint where she talked about how Umbridge spent
the rest of your life in jail. Kingsley was definitely the minister. Harry
and Dudley like saw each other onholiday sometimes. Yeah, so I think
there's I guess the potentials there whichside Now. I always kind of hoped

(27:55):
that one of Dudley's kids would havebeen magic, because that's really good fan
fic out there about that, Likereally good fan fic out there about that.
For some people. That's even likefor them. That's exactly what led
to Harry and Dudley maintain such ayou know, stronger relationship as adults because

(28:18):
Dudley wants to be a better,you know, more sentimental man than his
father was, and him having amagical child of his own now he doesn't
really know how to handle it,so he needs Harry's help and advice.
That's my favorite version of how thatone of my favorite fan fix. Someone's
written about that is like, Ithink it's he has a daughter who ends

(28:41):
up being a witch and goes toHogwarts and is like, I'm in Hufflepuff
and he's like, that's great,that's awesome, writes to Harry, what
does this mean? I love that? And looking at that too, do
you think because they're Dudley's kids thatPetunia and Vernon would have been accepted them?
Um? There probably would have beena lot of oh that's nice,

(29:03):
dear, when talking about the stuffthey get up to at school, but
not obviously wanting to get very intothe details because they don't want to hear
it. Yeah, the childhood getslike less present through. Yeah, I
think Petunia might be a little bitmore. But I feel like Vernon would
be absolutely like not, you know, like not at all. But Petunia

(29:27):
maybe with her history and her youknow, she might be a little bit
more inclined to be curious if nothingelse. Right, But Harry is still
bleeding? How did he go?In Harry's head, his body is still

(29:49):
in and he thinks about He's like, oh, I should have I should
know how to heal something like this, right, Like, because it's this
great line where he's like, it'sso frustrating, it's so irritating. I'm
three days away from being able touse magic. And then he's like,
oh, but I wouldn't know whatto do with this anyway, and how

(30:10):
he thinks about he'll have to askhermione how to heal wounds, which brought
me to thinking about magically healing thingsand how does it work? Kind of
what are the limits? Why isthis not something that they teach really early
at Hogwarts? Like are they notteaching them how to heal their papercuts and
whatever? Especially in this school whereI feel like there's so much that's potentially

(30:34):
dangerous. Yes, I was thinkingthat too, because I learned first aid
at summer camp and they tell itlike basic first aid was part of health
class. They showed us what's ina first aid kit, how do you
use all of it? And thenthey said, ultimately you should hope you
never need any of this stuff,but just in case you do. Every

(30:55):
job I've ever had as an adult, they teach fire safety, tornado safety,
you know, first aid, Here'swhat you do if you get this
kind of injury in the workplace.I work in an Amazon warehouse. They
do a lot of you know,emphasis on safety. But with wizards.
What I want to know, apartfrom why don't they make first aid compulsory

(31:17):
at Hogwarts, is maybe they havesome kind of you can transfigure your body,
you can turn into an animal,you can make yourself invisible. Can
you not just make your skin cutproof? I feel like that may be
going too far. I feel likethey're certain well almost more on an ethical

(31:40):
scale. Does that make sense?It's unethical. It's unethical to literally give
yourself a thicker skin. I don'tknow, just giving yourself a thicker skin
that feels like one of those thingsthat they're at least to me, there
always seems to be this kind ofline in the Wizarding World of like you

(32:02):
don't like super enhance your body,Like yes, you could be an animeagus,
you could be a but you don'tchange some of those fundamental like I
mean, it's the same reason whyHarry never has his eyes fixed. Why

(32:22):
why wizards don't fix their eyes andstuff? You know. I wonder if
there's either a limitation or if it'skind of an ethical thing of like similar
to how it's like bad to splityour soul. Maybe it's considered not as
much of a taboo, but it'sconsidered similar to do anything like that to

(32:45):
your like unnatural esque to your body. Well, I'm not I'm not make
yourself bulletproof or fuse your skin withadamantium and turn yourself into wolverine. I'm
just saying make it a little bitharder for you to get paper cuts.
But maybe that's it. If Iwalk up to you with a katana and

(33:07):
try to take your head off,Yeah, it's probably still gonna work,
but it's gonna, you know,be like when they've beheaded nearly headless,
Nick. It's gonna take like acouple of chops. I don't know.
It would probably be very advanced magicwith a very basic purpose. But I
still think somebody, at some point, somebody should really be working on that.

(33:28):
It would be great for Madam Pomfreybecause then she could just say to
yourself, Okay, you know what, it's bad enough that you kids come
up here with all these injuries andI don't ask you any questions. Can
you please, I'm going to makemy own job easier. I'm just gonna
give you a couple taps with mywand and it's going to be a lot
harder for you to bleed. I'mgoing to save a fortune on bandages devil.

(33:52):
Are we sure that they don't teachus anywhere? Is this a case
of like we're seeing the story fromHarry's point of view and he just wasn't
paying attention and was somewhere else whenthese listens were going on. And if
they did teach this, when didthey teach it? Like when would be
appropriate to start teaching kids the healingspell, like right when they come in

(34:13):
for minor injuries or I don't know, like maybe six to seventh year when
we have like broken bones, becauseif they do too earlier, then they'll
be they'll do too like they'll startjumping off things that like you know today

(34:34):
exactly. I would say that thatwould be any WT level magic because when
we see in transfiguration class, isthat McGonagle, does you know mention that
any any kind of spells that involveddoing things to yourself are things that you
would normally say for any WT year. Um, So it would make more

(34:54):
sense I think in like sixth andseventh year to start making these things because
it mentions leader in this chapter there'sa traditional trip around the world. You're
going to be far from home.You're going to be exposed to Goodness only
knows what you need to be ableto take care of yourself. And to
Shamany's point, which I think isexcellent about did it happen just because we

(35:15):
didn't see it, is when Harry'sgoing through his books, this kind of
bugs me. It just mentions atsome point I've got listed in the dock
here, when he's separating his things, he discards certain books. It just
says certain books. It doesn't saywhich ones, but it does mention that
he decides not to pack his textbooks. And I'm thinking, these are

(35:38):
the books that contain the magic youwere supposed to learn that you may have
never bothered to learn, or thatyou might have forgotten. You don't know
where you're going, dude, Youdon't know what you're going to need to
do when you get out there.You need to keep your texts. If
you need to keep any books withyou, you need to keep the books
that are going to teach you howto do the things that you probably should

(36:00):
have learned already but you didn't.Well, there's there's a caveat to that,
though, because we do know atthe end he's taking. Uh,
the exact title is it's one ofhis defense against the dark? Yeah,
isn't it like practical defenses? Yeah, it's I don't think that's one of
his defense against the dark artical defensivemagic and it's use against the dark hearts.

(36:22):
So that's that's not a text.No, those are the books that
Serious freems and Serious got him forin Order the Phoenix. But we see
Hermione doing something similar later on,where she's sorting through the textbooks that she
has because she throws like defense magicaltheory basically out the window as fast as

(36:44):
she can, because that's the oneneed defensive magical theory. She is defensive
magical theory. She can't apply alot of it because it's the worst subject.
But she knows she doesn't need theorybooks because she knows them. No
that that one specifically is because it'sthe one Umber just d and it was
useless. But but I think thisis also a very hairy thing though,

(37:06):
right Harry jumps into the action.Harry is I mean, I brought this
up a little bit later, buthe also leaves his cauldron in things,
which I was like, why aren'tyou bringing that, Like, don't you
think you're gonna have to maybe makea potion or something at some point in
this. But that's very very Harry, you know, of jumping into action

(37:29):
and like cutting out as much aspossible so he can just get to what
he has to do. And Ithink Harry's kind of feeling at the moment
that he's like, all right,I should know everything I need to know
so we can go take care ofthis. Let's go. But then of
course he runs into this situation wherehe's like, oh, maybe I should
know how to do this, butI do. I feel like maybe.

(37:53):
Is My question though in this conversationis would this be considered transfigury or would
this be considered more charms. Ithink transfiguration because it's altering your body.
It's altering a biological, organic,you know, being, whereas charms are

(38:15):
something that you put on something thatcan be organic or inorganic in order to
make it perform a function that itcan't normally perform, like levitate or tap
dance across the table. That's whatI think a charm is. Transfiguration has
to do with altering the even probablydown to the genes. What a thing

(38:37):
actually is like when you turn ananimal into a water goblet, which is
not okay. But that's where that'swhere I get confused here, actually is
because for me, transfiguration is moreabout that kind of like molecular level change,
whereas charms would be something like sewingup your hand basically, you know,

(39:00):
like with a cut. It wouldbe more akin to that because for
me, charms is almost more surfacelevel, if that makes sense, um,
whereas transfiguration is more like chemical molecularYeah, Like I get what you're
saying, because then then again you'vegot to think, well, you've got

(39:22):
things like cheering charms, but againthat that's that's not changing the the the
molecular levels because makeup of a thing, yeah, that it's basically a charm.
I think one thing that might dividetransfiguration spells from charms is charms are
probably a little bit easier to remove. They're probably a lot more temporary,

(39:43):
whereas with transfiguration, depending on howpowerful the magic is and how strong the
transformation is, it might not everwear off if you don't undo it.
Like if I turned a rat intoa water goblet with that spell they made
for Chamber of secrets that's not inthe books. If I turn a rat
into a water goblet, is itgoing to stay a water goblet forever?

(40:07):
Or is it eventually going to wearoff? I think it wears off because
I feel like we see and Idon't remember where this was that, I
feel like we see spear. Butyeah, even in transfiguration, I feel
like spells wearing off. Though wordsmore charms. Yeah, when like,

(40:28):
well, I mean it's it's it'sa I think it's a curse or a
jinx more than an actual charm.But when Ron uses the slug spell that
rebounds on himself and Hagrid says there'snothing to do but wait until it stops.
First of all, it fascinates me, Like I know a lot of
people don't want to give points toHagrid, but it fascinates me that Hagrid

(40:50):
knows that you wait until it stops. He's seen this before. It's not
his first routing. Anybody at thatschool has been to a wizard rodeo.
I guarantee I can also see Dumbledoredoing that. Though that's just like enough
for that happen. Oh, thatcould be a thing they did together.

(41:13):
One that's hilarious as much as don'tget me started on actual rodeos in the
ethics of that. But I wouldwrite that fan fiction Dumbledore and Hagrid's first
time at the Rodeo. We've gota title now too, I'd read it.
I'm Gone. But when we whenwe get back to what we were
talking about, is we seem tobe going on some side quest here,

(41:35):
y'all um? For okay, soI get like I was too warm because
at first I assume that it wouldbe charms. But Jeff, your explanation
really kind of has swayed me morethan the transfiguration side. And that also
ties in with a question that Iasked, where like with magic, we
know you can't bring somebody back fromthe dead, right and we know that

(41:59):
they're some injuries that can't be completelyhealed, like George's ear. So that
got you the amount Draco in thewhole second Zimbra incident, and when Snape
was healing him, because that wasdone with like a dark spell, does
that mean that he now like hecouldn't completely heal out that it was like

(42:21):
George's ear, so he couldn't completelyheal the slashes that were on Draco.
So now does Draco have all thesescars on his chest? So yes,
Snape even says that there's probably therewill probably be a fair amount of scarring.
But if you take didn't even rightaway, we might avoid even that.
Snape would probably be the only onethat would know, because it's a

(42:43):
spell he invented. But I don'tthink he's you know, performed enough experiments
to know the exact result. Ithink he understands the theory of his own
spell well enough to be able toguess. But yeah, I would say
that would actually be in a lotof dreary fan fictions. That's one of
the things that bonds them. Isgreat, Now you've got scars too,

(43:12):
what I just I know it's outthere of like an erotic scene of Harry,
like tracing the scars on Draco's hGod, oh look, this one's
shaved like a bolt of lightning.Let's see. Now that I have made

(43:40):
everybody either though comfortable, or possiblyeven given them feelings that they don't quite
understand, perhaps we steer it backto all of the stuff at the bottom
of this kid's trunk, because youknow what, I'm pretty sure that the
catch all drawer I have in mydresser in my bedroom exactly like this,

(44:00):
except it's just stuff I haven't gottenrid of yet. It's not reminders of
how guilty I feel to be alive. Yeah. Yeah, So that's what
Harry was doing when you know hestarted bleeding, is he was emptying his
trunk. And the thing that kindof made me laugh was he was like,
yeah, in the past six years, she's kind of skimmed the top

(44:21):
three quarters of everything and replaced it, and there's just a bunch of crap
on the bottom. And I waslike, Uh, that's really gross,
at least to me. And soI was like, is this a boy
thing? Is this a teenage thing? Is this a teenage boy thing?
And now I think about it,I probably as a teenager had some similar

(44:42):
things, but this still feels likea lot. Yeah. I mean what's
interesting is I remember getting rid ofpretty much everything because one of the things
I look forward to in back toschool shopping is every year I got a
new backpack. Yes, even ifit wasn't just a fun thing, because
kids taste in things changes all thetime. Like a lot of kiddos are

(45:06):
going to school right now with bluebackpacks, but they might not be as
into Bluey next year as they areright now, so you get them a
different one. You get them aMinecraft backpack or something. But some people,
like these kids, the idea isin theory, you get a trunk.
It's your trunk, yeah, andyou just keep emptying out and refilling

(45:27):
it for seven years. I mean, sure you could probably if something happens
to it, you could probably goout and get a new trunk. But
for the most part, I feellike the assumption is this is going to
be your trunk for at least sevenyears. It's more like a suitcase then
a backpack, is how I kindof think of them. And it's like
I always completely unpack my suitcases becausethen otherwise gross stuff happens. Because they've

(45:54):
got school bags that they carry aroundwhen they're actually at school that they keep
their parchment quills in books, andso they've got bags for that. The
trunk is just like, yeah,it's like you said, it's a suitcase.
It goes from home to school,it goes from school to home,
and it lives in your dorm mostof the time. That's it. That's
it, yeah, believe you.So, Yeah, the essentials and their

(46:15):
need every year. Yeah, ifyou don't pick it out, and they
don't give the kids. I've neverunderstood that they don't give the kids dressers,
like in the dormitories. They don'thave dressers for their clothes, don't
they have they don't have clothes.I think that don't they have war because
they're always digging through their trunks forthings exactly like I thought maybe they had
Am I am I imagining it?Or was there a mention at some point
of wardrobes? Do they have wardrobes? They should have wardrobes. There's not

(46:39):
that many studies, and these dormrooms are pretty really give them wardrobes.
Team going to say, I thinkyou're right, though, I don't think
the students have them, because yeah, we see Harry digging his quidditch uniform
out of his trunk. Yeah,and a and a steamer trunk is going

(46:59):
to be pretty pretty big. Wellyeah, but still if you're keeping all
your stuff in it, like yourpractical things like your books, your quills,
your parchment, your personal things likeany books that aren't for school,
any letters you don't want people toread, and then you've got your clothes.
If you're hiding snacks in your dorm, which you know that they do

(47:21):
because these kids go to hogs Met, they bring back a lot of Yeah,
these kids go to hogs Me,they bring back a lot of stuff.
But I mean they just have theone trunk that all their stuff goes
in. Of course it looks likethis at the end of every year.
Why wouldn't it. They don't haveanything else. Yeah, but it's also
looks like that for seven six yearsfor him, and that's gross, Like

(47:42):
you just broken stuffing a little distracted, hasn't he guess? But I did
like this moment reading it where hekind of digs through that bottom quarter of
his trunk and he's got these littlemementos. He finds e Cedric Harry Badge,
he finds this his broken sneak,a scope, He finds old socks,
probably from the Dirgeley's. He findsthe broken fake locket, And it

(48:06):
really feels like those old recaps wegot in the first couple of books,
but it's so much more subtle.It's again that that kind of growing of
the craft and also how the readerI think has grown in sophistication that this
can be written like this. Um, it's like the most guilt wrenching time
capsule ever, Like, look atthis badge supporting this person who died instead

(48:31):
of me. Look at this sneakat scope that broke because of that other
thing that happened. Look at thislocket that I collected the day that my
only adult role model died instead.You're so right, like almost all of
them are connected to somebody who died. He's just the survivor's guilt. There's

(48:52):
there's like an air of survivor's guiltin everything that he's pulling out of the
bottom of this trunk. I actuallykind wondered for a while if maybe that
isn't the reason all this stuff istowards the bottom because he can't stand throwing
it away because it feels like he'sthrowing away the person it reminds him of
in a way. But at thesame time, he can't look at it.

(49:14):
He has to know it's there somewhere, but it is literally and metaphorically
buried. Tisia had had a reallygood point that I liked, Yeah about
this as he's going through his trunk. Oh, I just like it reminds
me of the scene in the movieswhere they're running. I think the three
is running through um like the courtyardof Hogwarts, and it's all the things

(49:37):
that they used to see they usedto remind them, like the Spider.
It's my favorite scene from all themovies. I just think they doesn't bother
them this time. It's like they'velike so much has happened to them,
and so much like more things tobe afraid of than spiders, for example,
maybe has happened to them that they'rejust like they've moved past that kind
of like how the reader has Likethey like that comparison because I like it's

(50:00):
a similar idea, But I thinkthis scene would be tricky to put on
film because it would be a littleboring and it's so internalized for Harry.
But kind of shifting that idea tothat scene in the film really does kind
of get you have that similar thingacross. Maybe they'll do it in the
HBO series. Yeah, definitely,I'm gonna look for that scene because I've

(50:22):
never noticed that that That is afantastic yeah point. Yeah, in a
way, it's again it's not aperfect parallel, but it also when he's
going through this trunk and he's reflectingon all of these moments from the series
that we remember fondly or not.It reminds me of almost the parallel to

(50:42):
this chapter Chapter thirty four, whenhe's walking towards the forest, he's prepared
to accept that he must die,and when he sees Hagrid's hut, it
immediately he starts reflecting on all thesememories that he had with Hagrid, especially
the ones that are directly connected tohis hut, like belching up slugs,
saving buckbeak, planning, you know, helping Hagrid feel better about his mom

(51:07):
during the Triwizard tournament, when thatstory made Hagrid feel so terrible, like
it's amazing in this happens to Harrya lot. He sees one thing or
he sees other things, and justeverything he's feeling, everything he hasn't processed,
just comes flooding back to him.This child needs someone to talk to.

(51:29):
There are no emotional coaches for thiskid. True, we need a
wizard. There people away. Onceagain we are asking where and going on
with that I again. Another reallybeautiful passage is he finally discovered the sharp

(51:50):
edge that had done the damage.He recognized it at once. It was
a two inch long fragment of theenchanted mirror that his dead godfather Sirius had
given him. Harry laid it aside, felt cautiously around the trunk for the
rest, but nothing more remained ofhis godfather's last gift except powdered glass,
which clung to the deepest layer ofdebris like glittering grit, and especially like

(52:12):
glittering grit is just so powerful.Oh my gosh, I mean, and
especially talking about Sirius's last gift ofthat's all that's left of it, right,
is something that seems like trash,right, grit, gross, nasty,
clinging to debris, but it's glittering, right, it's still remembering what

(52:37):
it was and how important it wasand how how destructive it was. And
man, just so good. Andit's so heartbreaking to do. When you
think about what the mirror was andwhat could have happened had it been used
properly, it's just like, yeah, Wow, I'm going to write a

(52:59):
sad wizard rock song about that.I already have a sad wizard rock song
about Harry missing serious and not beingable to talk to him anymore. It's
called paw Prints in the Sand.Now I'm gonna write one called like glittering.
Yes, so thanks Allison, Welcome. It's gonna be and it's gonna
make everybody feel terrible. Credit creditme. But yeah, that just oh

(53:27):
my gosh. Again, there's somany passages in this book that I'm just
like, this is so ridibul evenum. But he does. He's thrown
away, specifically very much, thevestiges of his school days. Right,
He's gotten rid of his school uniformrobes, he's gotten rid of his quidditch
ropes, his textbooks, his cauldron, his quills. But I was like,

(53:49):
hold up, We've talked about thislittle bit. We talked about the
cauldron. But I was like,you're not gonna take like two quills,
Harry, how are you going tosurvive without like a pen? I always
have like three pens. On likeI started, I can make one appear
because he know the magic to makeone appear. Mmmm. I think this
would probably be another fallen back oncounting on hermione to know the magic that

(54:12):
he doesn't know. Yeah, becausewhen I think at the list of things
he is taking and things he isn'ttaking, I came up with a count
like this is why I in thisinstance, I would be very very bad
at packing, because I would comeup with a reason why everything has to
come with me. For example,yes, he takes the potion kit,
but he doesn't think he's gonna needa cauldron to make the potions in.

(54:35):
Maybe he thinks they'll make it insomething else. Yeah, okay, Vine,
you'll make the potion in something smallerthan a cauldron. But good luck
with that, because obviously cauldrons haveto be a standard size because that's cannon
in the books. It bugs methat he's I mean, I mentioned the
books already that he takes in theones that he doesn't, so I've already
set my piece on that. It'sthe clothes and the parchment and quills that

(54:58):
puzzles me this time around, because, on the one hand, with the
clothing, he takes his Muggle clothes, but doesn't he think that occasionally he's
going to have to venture back intothe wizarding world in order to hunt or
cruxes, And doesn't he think it'sgoing to be a little bit of a
giveaway if he's disguised more like aMuggle than knows how to dress like a

(55:20):
muggle than a wizard. Because wehave many examples to prove that wizards don't
know how to dress like muggles,but he is the one who does.
I mean, but this feels verymuch like Harry. Yeah. I mentioned,
I mentioned. Everything he's taking withhim either has emotional significance or strategic
use. And that's Harry's character ina nutshell, right like emotion. Yeah,

(55:49):
and he's leaning much more on He'sleaning much more on the emotion than
he is on the practicality, becausehe's supposed to be doing a practical thing,
but emotions keep getting in the way. All the stuff at the bottom
of the trunk that reminds him ofall these things he's never dealt with.
Reading Dumbledore's obituary, reading read isSkeeters are about her book coming. I

(56:10):
know we're not. But I'm justsaying he's supposed to be doing a practical
thing right now. He's supposed tobe making practical decisions, but he keeps
getting distracted by sentiment. Some peopleit's hard enough to pack, but he
has got so many things going onright now he can't be practical. Yeah,
but I think he's been. He'sbeen doing this packing for a while.

(56:31):
And I think, again, thisfeels just very much like an indicator
of Harry's character. He his thoughtis he's going to go out there and
he's gonna fight and destroy Voldemore orhe's gonna die trying, And so I
should be wearing wizard robes while doingthat is not something he's thinking about necessarily,

(56:53):
I think. But I don't thinkhe thought I had to the potential
of having to come into the like. I don't think all that was on
his mind. No, So Ido kind of want to give him the
benefit of the doubt and say,maybe he was trying to pack light.
I think just because he didn't havea bunch of extra craft to carry around.
Yeah, which though, which isalso frustrating because when you see Hermione's

(57:16):
undetectable extension charm, you're like,oh my god, you could have brought
all your stuff exactly. But seethat's a kind of magic that she would
know that he even if he thoughtof that, I doubt he's capable of
pulling it off. Oh no,but it might be on one of the
school books that he's decided not topack because he didn't very much. And

(57:42):
Alison just said the single rucksack.I feel like that's kind of typical of
men though, when they passed togo anywhere, they have like a single
bag, like a small bag,has everything in it for a week.
Meanwhile, a typical woman, we'relike, well, in his case,
we gotta purse, we gotta carryon, we gotta makeup, bag,

(58:04):
garment back. Like I try notto do that anymore. I try to
put it all in a single doublebag if I'm only going for a few
days, but it literally still haseverything. But you're also you're also like,
here's my bag full of every medicationI guess possibly ever need. Like
you've got every possible thing for anythingthat could happen. I've got band aids,

(58:24):
I've got snacks, I've got books, I've got batteries, chargers like
you name it, I've got it. And especially with kids, y'all,
traveling with kids is a whole assevent. I'm like, I've got seven
kinds of painkillers, I've got coldmedicine, I've got cough drops, I've

(58:45):
got the house, and he's gota backpack. I'm ready to go,
and I'm like, dude, really, Everybody's like, yes, I will
be taking a traveling library with meif I'm flying most of the time,
especially these days, I'm flying forsomething in which I will need my guitar,

(59:07):
so that is my one carry on. So yes, I will try
to fit at things in as fewbags as possible, because the more bags
I bring, the more I haveto pay if I have above a certain
amount of bags. But if I'mdriving anywhere, I will take as many
bags as I please, because itdoesn't matter how many bags I put in

(59:30):
my car as long as they'll fitright. Which is just one more reason
I like flying like I enjoy flying, I just from a practical standpoint,
I prefer to drive because I likebeing able to leave and get back when
I feel like it, not whena schedule says. I like not having

(59:51):
to go through security, although goingthrough TSA is a lot easier than it
used to be, And I alsolike not having to worry about a I
get to get my stuff back whenI get there because it's with me the
time. Yeah, post you're driving, if you need something, you can
just go get it because you havea car. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
I like to have my car withme. Long car rides just get

(01:00:14):
tedious for me, and the monotonymakes me sleepy, so that's yeah.
Especially it's boring, like boring theyget at least, but something exciting up
for us to look, not likeget distracted look at but like stairway.
I have driven some very boring highways. You're rolling all the windows down trying

(01:00:37):
to sing, and oh it's it'shard, it's terrible. Yeah, but
yeah. So my whole point wasI feel like Harry's singular backpack, rucksack,
whatever they want to call it,is pretty typical. Well, and
he's also you know, he's tryingto like be ready for any action.
You know. Again, he's sogriffin door. Oh, Harry, my

(01:01:00):
darling child, You're such a griffindoor. He doesn't need much because if
he has to battle, then that'smore stuff he has to like toss to
the side. True. So anotherlittle mentioned, little call back to previous
books that I thought was kind offunny is Hedwig is once again miffed at
Harry because she's been locked in hercage at Perfect Drive, which is something

(01:01:23):
that has happened multiple limes over thepast books. And I just thought it
was a little cute, like Hedwig'sso mad at you. Hedwig sass is
some of my favorite sass because Hedwighas this way of first of all,
getting sassy with Harry without having tosay anything to him, and yet he

(01:01:46):
understands very very clearly what she istrying to communicate, and he talks to
her. And at the same time, what's he good to do? She's
an owl and she's also especially atPrivate Drive, she's his only companion.
What's he gonna do? Yeah,curse Hadder. I it just occurred to

(01:02:06):
me. I think I just havea thing for sassy owl characters because Archimedes
from Disney Sword in the Stone isone of my favorite sidekicks of all time,
and he is like the epitome ofsassy. He really is. Have
you ever realized when you watch TheSorcerer's Stone that they very obviously recorded those
scenes out of sequence because that kid'svoice goes up and down and in and

(01:02:30):
out of puberty as the movie progressesfrom beginning to end. From Sword in
the Stone. Yeah, oh,I thought you said sorcer Stone and I
was like, damn Radcli, like, are you particular? Yeah, in
particular the part where it's almost likethey got a completely different actor of the
part where they meet Madam Min.Yes, raspy teenage puberty voice but then

(01:02:52):
as soon as the whole thing withMadam Mim is over, we're right back
to teeny Tiny Little Kid again.Yeah, once again. Total. I
know, but Disney wants to bankruptme because they just released a special edition
plush of Madam Mim as a dragonand Merlin as a mouse and I must
have it, and Disney wants tobankrupt for everybody. I feel targeted though.

(01:03:19):
Anyway, Are we at the Ithink we're at? Are we at
the Daily Prophet Obituary? Yes,that's I was. I was just gonna
say so. Harry's kind of cleanedout his trunk. He's feeling good about
that, and he says all hehas left is to go through the Daily
Prophets. So he starts to flipthrough his stack of Daily Prophets and he's

(01:03:42):
specifically looking for one. And thething that I was like, ah,
here is obviously the first chapter ofthis book. We meet Charity Bourbage for
the first time, right before shedies r Ipu, and here he says
he remembers the addition he's looking forbecause it had a mention of Charity Burbage

(01:04:08):
retiring from the Muggle Studies position.I was like, oh, dramatic irony.
The reader knows something that Harry doesn't. We know she's dead and we
know what really happened, So thatwas just kind of I don't know.
Again, some of that sophistication thatstarts coming in in these later books is

(01:04:29):
very fascinating. And he's looking specificallyfor Dumbledore's obituary. I have a head
canon about this obituary. It's oneof my favorite head cannons. So in
my head cannon, the editor ofThe Daily Prophet knew that there would be
a lot of important and articulate peoplethat would want to be the one to

(01:04:53):
write Dumbledore's obituary. So The DailyProphet had an essay contest to who's would
actually get chosen. And the reasonthey chose Elfieus Doge's obituary is because it's
so sickly sweet and sentimental and onesided that they intentionally put it up against

(01:05:15):
this teaser of Rita Skeeter's biography ofDumbledore, because they're trying to play both
sides of the field here. They'retrying to appeal to the Dumbledore supporters as
well as the Dumbledore detractors, theDumble detractors. I okay, I went

(01:05:39):
back and looked again, because Icouldn't remember if this was specifically said this
was his like official obituary, andI don't think it is. It's the
only one he gets that we knowof. We don't know that for sure,
though, because Harry just calls itan article and it's just called Albus
Dumbledore remembered. So I don't knowif this is like, and yet it's

(01:06:00):
referred to as an obituary by everyoneelse every time it's brought up, where
even even even Muriel refers to it. She says, I noticed how you
skated over the sticky patches in thatobituary you wrote, and Elfius says,
I'm sorry that way. Yeah,it's it's one, I'm sure, but
I don't know if it's like theofficial one, because usually I think like

(01:06:23):
an official obituary in a newspaper ismore compiled by like an editorial team,
and they're not normally so detailed.Yeah, I mean they're usually pretty detailed.
Well yeah, but it's like aperson, not like a narrative.
Yeah, but yeah, but thisfeels like a secondary one that came out
a couple days after it, youknow, I like, like, in

(01:06:45):
addition to you. Yes, That'swhat I'm saying is yeah, So I
mean I guess technically, yes,it's called an obituary, but um,
I don't think it would be theonly one. I think it was probably
one of many, like a tribute, yeah, than a you know what
if they were going to go thatroute with it, with as important his
influential as Dumbledore, would they woulddo with him what they did when you

(01:07:06):
guys, remember when Michael Jackson diedand every magazine that existed put out a
memorial issue because I collected them.I had every issue of every magazine that
I never read my whole life,because every magazine put together an exclusive memorial
issue of all stuff about Michael Jackson. If that's really what they wanted to

(01:07:27):
do, then they probably could havejust done an exclusive daily profit issue where
everybody who wants to write about Dumbledoregets to do it. Well, I
think they could have. But alsothis does happen a lot, you know,
like I'm thinking right now, likeCormick McCarthy just died, the author
Kormick McCarthy, and there's been severaldifferent pieces across several different publications on different

(01:07:51):
days of different reflections on his lifeand his writing and his you know who
he was. So I think it'sdefinitely possible, um that it could have
been across you know, several differentpeople at several different times. But maybe
it was a contest and maybe theywere like, send us your obituary and

(01:08:11):
we'll publish the best ones over severaldays. I don't know. That seems
really odd though, Like how isthat worded? Like oh true? I
mean like what do you even say, do you obituary? Send us a
sample? Like what? Yeah?Like how well do you know Dumbledore?

(01:08:31):
Like I'm not saying something like thatcouldn't have happened. But like I said,
it's a head canon. I can'tgive you. Yeah, I cannot
give the point of a headcannon isthat you can't prove it with enough hard
evidence to say, yes, thisdefinitely, for sure happened. You can

(01:08:53):
back it up and make a casefor it, but you can't prove headcanons.
That's why they're head cannon, notcan I mean, I like it,
don't get me wrong, I likeit. I just it's funny in
a way, but I like it. It really came about because it was
just it's always that's it's called inmemorium because we're remembering somebody, but we

(01:09:15):
get two very very different ways ofremembering Dumbledore, and we'll we'll get to
read a Skeeter's version of what happenedin a minute. Yeah, so this
is kind of our first look atDumbledore's backstory here, which is going to
be so critical throughout this whole book, which and I think it's it's fascinating

(01:09:38):
that we get this here because wedo kind of get the two extremes in
these two articles. We get Doge, who is really kind of high praise
here are worshiping, and then weget read a Skeeter who's really trying to
tear him down. And I thinkas we get through the rest of the
book, what it really happens iswe find the truth that's in the middle.

(01:10:01):
So it's really fascinating that we starton the extremes here. But I
was reading through this and I waslike, all right, so we know
that Doge is very biased here,So what do we think in this obituary
he writes as better than it actuallywas? Right the word I phrased it
last night when I could hardly thinkwas shinier than reality. So what do

(01:10:27):
you think in here has been overemphasized or has been kind of blown out
of proportion. I'm very curious.I mean, the thing that I don't
know if this is quite what you'relooking for. But the thing he says
that really sticks out to me iswhen he says he feels guilty about his

(01:10:53):
sister's death, but of course hewas blameless. Albus does not feel that
way. But then again, Elphiusnever gets the full details, but that's
true. What it shows is thathe's already done a lot of building up
of Dumbledore as he knew him.But then when you throw in he felt

(01:11:15):
bad for his sister's death, butof course he was blameless. And I
think at some point, when Dogeand Auntie Muriel are talking about it at
the wedding, I think she evensays something like, well you would say
that Elphius. M Do you thinkhe ever got the rest of the story?
No from anywhere, No, no, Bertie, you think he just

(01:11:39):
lived in ignorant bliss. Oh yeah, he definitely lived in ignorant bliss.
Dumbledore didn't tell this to anyone.He doesn't even talk to Harry about it
until Harry finds out and he can'tdeny it anymore. Yeah, because that's
what he says in the King's Crosschapter towards the end of the book,
he says, I don't have anysecrets from you anymore, Harry, and
Harry says, I don't despise you, and Doubledore says than you should.

(01:12:00):
You can't despise me more than Idespise myself. Yeah. The one line
that I think comes off to meis a little bit like, all right,
Felius like or not Felius you know, Elius um, you know,
Elfius, thank you. It wasnot coming off my tongue us when he
says nothing more or less than themost brilliant student ever seen at the school,

(01:12:23):
like my dude Merlin went to Hogwarts, Like he's not everybody's lovable character.
But you know what, especially hereon this program and a lot of
other ones I listened to a lotof people have made an excellent case for
why Bartie Crouch Junior might actually beone of the most brilliant. Certainly he

(01:12:45):
was. Certainly he was the mostable of the death eaters. He may
have actually, had he survived andnot gone over to the dark side and
contributed more, he could have Ithink he could have given doubled or run
for his money. And for example, to another one, that strikes me
as like, really, you're seeingthis through rose colored glasses? Is you
really think Albus didn't settle any argumentsthrough anything other than reasoned discussion, like

(01:13:10):
he was twelve at one point.Sounds like yeah, yeah, yeah,
there were just there were several thingsthat it was very you know, just
just some things where if you readclosely you definitely see how this is written
through an absolute lens of hero worshipand putting him on a pedestal. Um.

(01:13:34):
Yeah, he finds something to valuein anyone. Really m about that.
I don't think that's entirely accurate.He's not the dumb the door we
Yeah. But another kind of interestingthing that I picked up on is that

(01:13:56):
Joe mentions that Albus knew his fathercommitted the crime. He was arrested for
knowing the backstory of what happened,right, because obviously that wasn't that's not
clear to the rest of the Wizardingworld. But we as readers find out
that Perceval Dumbledore attacked the Muggle boyswho attacked Arianna, Right, that's what

(01:14:19):
he was arrested for was because hewent after the Muggle boys that had done
terrible things to his daughter. Howdo you think Albus felt about that?
Because part of me slightly thinks proudprobably isn't the right word, But I
think that Albus felt that his fatherwas completely justified. Somewhere in the back

(01:14:44):
of his mind he would be proudof that. Understands it. It hasn't
settled in it in the beginning thathis father will never come back, that
he will be in jail forever.This will take a toll on his mother,
his brother, his sister, andultimately himself. So at first he'll
be proud and feel justified because he'llknow that even though his father did get

(01:15:10):
himself arrested and he died in jail, he did it because he wanted to
stick up for his family. Andyet at the same time, Aberfourth,
not Aberforth, Perceval right, hisfather, Perceval. Perceval made a very
rash decision when he decided to assaultthree boys because he was not thinking,

(01:15:33):
what are the long term effects thisis going to have on my home life
and my family and what kind offollowed are they going to have to deal
with? If this is the choicethat I make, and the older Albas
gets and the more the responsibility ofcaring for and guiding his family falls on
his shoulders, especially since that's aroundthe time he wanted glory, he wanted
to shine, he wanted to befree. That's when he's going to stop

(01:15:57):
feeling so proud of his father andhe's going to start shouting at Got saying
why did you do this to us? But when you're in the heat of
the moment like that, does anybodyreally stop and think about the consequences,
And especially with the situation like that, what like what would what should he
have done? Like? What arethe other options? Well? And there's

(01:16:20):
also the fact that a lot ofwhy Kendri's life becomes more difficult and their
life becomes more difficult is because ofthe condition that that attack puts Arianna in.
Yeah, and the fact that theyfeel like they have to hide her
and her her trying to repress hermagical powers, and that bursting out of

(01:16:42):
her causes them a lot of issues. So I wonder again if maybe there
were times where he thought, yeah, that was the way to go,
right, like he did the thingthat should have been done, because those
boys attacking Arianna ruined our entire Yeah, because they're Muggle boys. They're muggle
boys who assaulted a magical child.He can't rely on the Ministry of Magic

(01:17:05):
to do anything about it. Hecan't exactly rely on the Muggle justice system
to do anything about it either.But if he had thought it through,
like if this were this is notlike, this is not criminal minds type
of revenge. This is like lawand order type of revenge where you act

(01:17:27):
very irrationally and you think, Ijust want to punish this person and then
try to hide the fact that thisis what I did. But that's not
what happens because in criminal minds revenge, you think it through and you extract
your revenge and then it becomes muchmuch harder to prove because they have to
go through a psychological profile rather thanactual evidence and investigation. But if if

(01:17:51):
I think maybe Perceval was not asbookish or methodical as Albus was, because
if he had been, like ifPerceval had had the intellect and the same
way of dealing with problems that Albushad, like imagine if they were reversed.
Imagine if Albus was the father andPerceval was the son Albus would have

(01:18:14):
probably tried to find a way ofgetting revenge on those boys and punishing them
without making it so obvious that itwas him that did it. Maybe because
Albus would probably have been smart enoughto figure out a way of hiding the
fact that it was him that gotrevenge on all those Muggle boys. Oh
well, perhaps Perceval was a Gryffindorand job right in it. He wasn't

(01:18:42):
a griffin door. You're right,you're right, But this moment calls for
a raven claw vengeance, not Gryffindoorvengeance. Because I know, like me,
if somebody like going back to mykids again, if somebody attacks my
kids, like they are literally theonly three things that I will ever go
to prison for. Otherwise I'm notgoing to visit, can't do it,
not ready. But if somebody attacks, go into prison because I'm jumping in,

(01:19:05):
I'm going all in. I'm gettingrevenge. You know, I'm not
thinking about the consequences, even thoughI know that that will leave my children
like motherless. But the same time, like what else do I think?
It's just it's instinct, Yeah,it's just human instinct, Like he wanted
to protect his daughter. I don'twant to advocate for these things. Like

(01:19:28):
now, obviously disclaimer, I'm goingto think it through because I don't want
to go to prison, So likenot even this episode Meditation of any Time
No I No Episode three hundred andseventy seven title Exhibit A. Theoretically,

(01:19:57):
Yeah, but I do think again. Yeah, this is this is one
of those again first hints of justhow devastating that horrific attack was on this
entire family. I mean, itreally broke them apart, and it shaped
them in to the people they werein all the worst ways, which is

(01:20:17):
so sad. Yeah, because Imean Dumbledore's poor mom. She just wants
to bottle everything up and keep everythingsecret and well because that was what was
that's what you had to do atthe time. It was not socially acceptable
to do. You know, itwould be worse to have that shame on

(01:20:38):
your family for them at the timethat this was happening. Yeah, they
don't want Ariana to get carted offto Saint Mungo's where she's going to be
studied and kept in a hospital forthe rest of her life. So she
wants to keep all her kids athome, which got me thinking why doesn't
she homeschool the kids, And theonly reason I can come up with is
because she knew, even at ayoung age that al was a wunderkint and

(01:21:00):
eventually she would not be able toactually educate him. I don't think she
wanted to deprive them of a puregroup either, which is why her compromise
was let them go to school,let them make friends, let them get
out of the house for a while, but don't tell anyone anything. So

(01:21:24):
at the same time, she's teachingthem healthy things, but she's also teaching
them very unhealthy things. Yea,and yet the unhealthy things she's teaching them
like don't open up to people,don't let people in, don't talk about
it. Yeah, this is theextreme of that. But at the same
time, it's kind of a runningtheme throughout the books. People don't talk

(01:21:47):
about their feelings. People aren't taughtthat having emotions and discussing your problems and
working through them are okay. Butthis is an extreme of that way of
thinking. Speaking of extremes, weget we get a mention of Albus's accomplishments,
and especially at such a young age. All right, this is this

(01:22:09):
is my teaching experience coming out.So much of this seems like so much
high pressure that my question is,how the heck did Albus not develop anxiety
with all of this, even ifhe is brilliant, because I've had kids
that this has happened too, whereand often it happens. The more brilliant
they are, the more pressure thereis on them to be absolute, perfect

(01:22:31):
brilliant, and it breaks them downin a lot of ways. So let's
discuss, because that's that's all Igot there. I don't really have a
question of just how has this notbroken him down? Do we know for
sure that he doesn't have anxiety?Though? Oh no, there's no way

(01:22:53):
he doesn't have anxiety. Everybody feelssome anxiety sometimes, but especially after everything
that he's been through and now allthis spotlight, the spotlight has not been
off Dumbledore. One thing that DogeI think gets right is as soon as
he gets to school and starts showinghow smart he is, the spotlight is
never off him. For his entirelife. He's a student who's writing papers

(01:23:15):
that are getting published in periodicals.Famous people are writing letters to him while
he's still a student. It justit's the pressure is never off Dumbledore,
So there's no way he doesn't developanxiety. But as we've said several times
in this episode alone, what's hesupposed to do with that? He doesn't
have anybody that he can talk toabout it. He doesn't know how to

(01:23:35):
process it. Once again, itjust keeps building up. Wizard therapy yep,
have solved a lot of problems orat least helps. It's ready to
blow. Oh hefe but that ishis theme song though the strong I'm as

(01:24:00):
tough as the crust of the Earthis it's him exactly. Yeah, like
you know, you know that Dumbledore, like if Doubledore was still alive and
Incanto came out and he's going tosee Muggo movies like that would be the
like Dumbledore downloads the soundtrack and thenat the end of the year when he
looks back on his Spotify, liketop playlist from the year, that song
got played like a million times,Doubledore to the back crying in that whole

(01:24:24):
scene. Um fair um. Butspeaking of siblings, we also of course
learn about Aberfourth, which we gotkind of a slight mention of him in
order where Harry just thinks he looksfamiliar, like slightly familiar. But this
is the first time we really,I mean, we learned his name.

(01:24:46):
We learned that he's and well,not that it's him. Okay, we
learned his name, we don't learnwhere does he come up before that?
When Moody shows Harry the picture ofthe year original Order of the Phoenix,
he mentions Dumbledore's brother Aberfort. Oh, you're right, he mentions, I

(01:25:09):
don't think he says his name,but he does. Sit Wait, no,
he says his name, because hesays, my own brother Aberforth was
prosecuted by the Ministry for practicing inappropriatecharms on goats. That's in Goblet of
Fire, isn't really that's Goblet?Yes, because yes it is. In
the chapter read a Skeeter's Scoop.It's at the part where they're trying to

(01:25:29):
make Hagrid feel better about what waswritten about his mom and come back to
work. Harry mentions the Dursley's Dumbledorestarts unloading some of his own family stuff.
Oh, you're right, I completelyforgot about that, because that's also
the first mention of the goats.Yeah, and that's when he wraps it
up. At the he does whatI would do. He mentions something from
his past to connect to somebody that'skind of not happy to talk about.

(01:25:53):
But then he ties it up witha joke and says, of course,
I don't know if my brother canread, so that may not have been
him being brave. True, you'reright. I had forgotten all about that
because I was thinking that the firsttime we saw him was in order.
That's okay, I was wrong aboutHarry being this being the only time.
Harry's the only one in the chapter. But then also though, because Elfieus

(01:26:16):
says that after they're falling out orwhatever, they kind of formed a cordial
relationship and what have you. ButI feel like at some point we should
have heard more because we know thatDumbledore goes into Have Met and has drinks
or whatever, and I think thatI at least assumed he was going to

(01:26:38):
the three Room six, but hewas probably going to the Hawkshead. Yeah.
I would have thought that Dumbledore Ieveryone's favorite movie. No, no,

(01:26:58):
I would I think that came outbefore that movie came out. But
there was some bit of information,And tell me if I'm totally making this
up, that it said that Albasspecifically kind of distanced himself from Aberforth a
little bit to keep Aberforth safe andalso to keep him as an available kind

(01:27:23):
of secret agent. Right, Soif people don't know they're related, they're
brothers, and that they've they liketalk to each other, there's less of
a chance of Aberfourth being attacked toget to get to Albos. And Aberforth
is more. He's able to kindof slip under the surface a little bit
more and do some undercover work thatbenefits Albos. And I, for the

(01:27:48):
life of me, cannot think ofwhere that information came from, but I
swear it was confirmed long before Secretsof Dumbledore came out. I had never
heard that, but it makes sense. Someone's got to know. Listeners,
if you know what I'm talking about, dropping in the comments because please help

(01:28:12):
well. And then again it kindof goes back to you. Because the
book is from Harry's point of view, he wouldn't necessarily be sitting around hanging
out chatting with Harry about his brotherand the other so the teachers probably know
who he is. And then heexists, and I guess we just don't
get to see it as a readerbecause you know, it's from Harry's point

(01:28:33):
of view, so maybe he's noteven like trying to be secretive or anything.
It's just that's not a conversation tohave with Harry. Yea makes sense
to me digging into as well,Don't says that Aberforce doesn't like being out
shown. But but we kind ofdig closer into that, and obviously that's
not really what's happening, right,I think there's I mean, from what

(01:28:58):
we get at the end, weget Aberforth saying all Alba's cared about was
his prizes and his correspondence and beingbrilliant, you know, And Aberforth says
that he was Arianna's favorite, Andso is that more of what you think
causes a rift between them? IsAberforth kind of suffering middle child syndrome?

(01:29:23):
No, you don't think so.Definitely not. No. If they were
more of a typical like okay,if Arianna had not had her incident,
if they had just been he wouldhave had he definitely, I'll give you
this, he would have. Hewould have had middle child syndrome, speaking
as a middle child who had middlechild syndrome, he would have. If

(01:29:48):
they had been a more typical family. If Perceval had never gone to prison,
if Arianna had never been attacked andthey were just three kids live in
their life as the Dumbledore family,and the parents were doting on Albus,
who was thriving much more because hedidn't have all these dark secrets and terrible

(01:30:09):
things at home to worry about.Then, yeah, he might have a
little, but still I don't thinkhis being more introverted and being more comfortable
with animals than he is with people. I don't think that's a direct result
of Albus being brilliant. I thinkthat it's entirely possible also that he may

(01:30:33):
have just been more comfortable with goatsthan with people their kids like that,
he wouldn't have had to care somuch for his little sister because not in
the capacity that he does. Wherehis sister is a person who now has
particular needs that need to be addressed. He probably would have bonded with her

(01:30:54):
a little bit more than Albus,because Albus would have been so busy being
wrapped up in himself, and hemight have forgotten that he had two younger
siblings who weren't achieving as much.But it would have gone that way if
Ariana had never been attacked and Percevalhad never gone to jail. I don't
know. I think Aberforth may havehad at least a little bit right.

(01:31:15):
He stuck between brilliant, overachieving olderbrother and sister who, because of her
needs, take so much time andattention that I can see him feeling a
little black sheep. But that happensa lot with siblings, and sometimes,
you know, it can depend alittle bit on how many siblings there are.

(01:31:38):
But he he was very, veryA lot of times it felt like
Albus was so busy being Albus thatit felt like he didn't really have an
older brother at all. It feltlike it was him and Arianna. He
took care of her, He helpedhis mother, He loved his family.
Albus was supposed to love his family, but he didn't learn how until it
was too late and the damage hadalready been done. But he never forgot

(01:32:00):
that he had a family because henever wanted to go off and do any
of the things that Albus did thatmade him famous or likable to other people,
because he was never interested in that. So you think it's more resentment
and less feeling overshadowed. Yeah,he resents yeah, and I mean he
straight up says it. He resentsAlbus for not giving enough of a crap
about his family, but he doesn'tcare about all the trophies and prizes and

(01:32:24):
famous people he was writing to.He never wanted any of that. He
wanted life to be simple. Heliked his goats, He loved his sister
and his mom. He liked beingat home. He may have had some
friends, but some people are morecomfortable with you know, books and goats
and their immediate family and their smallercircle than they are with caring about what
other people think about them. Honestly, it's one of the things I like

(01:32:47):
about aber fourth. He is notthe least bit concerned with whether or not
other people approve of him or whathe's into. He is very very much
his own person. He's not afraidto be who he is. He doesn't
make any apologies for that, andhonestly I like that about him. Yeah.
We speaking of Albus though, andhis want for glory. I'm going

(01:33:08):
to throw something potentially controversial out there, and that is that doee just partially
responsible for why Albus clung on toGrindevald so much, because he says he
wrote to Albus about all his adventuresand was insensitive about what Albus was going
through. And so I have thistheory that Albus was obviously feeling very abandoned

(01:33:32):
and lonely with all his friends outand about in their lives, and he's
stuck at home, and so hestuck. Maybe that's not why initially he
was attracted to Grindevald, but maybehe's stuck around. Even one part of
his brain was like, oh,this guy might not be the best thing
known to mankind, because he wasfeeling it was almost like his rebellious face

(01:33:57):
right where he was like, allmy friends are going out and that the
guess what, we're planning to overtakethe world here, and so one day
they'll see. So that's my controversialstatement in this chapter is that Aphilias Doge
is partially responsible for how long Albushung on to Grindewald. See initially I
was like, nah, But actually, when you put it that way,

(01:34:20):
I do take your point. It'snot the reason he went for Grindelwald.
I don't think we can discuss Grindelwaldwas in every way exactly like him what
he needed, and in every wayhe was different from him in terms of
what he needed. He needed somebodywith his intellectual capacity, his determination,
his skill, but also Albus was, you know, upright proper bookish,

(01:34:45):
like probably not very experienced eyebrows.And then here comes this, you know,
hot, hot bad boy who gotkicked out of school, but still
no was as much as him wantsto do as much as he does,
and that I think was a muchbigger reason. But I do think you

(01:35:06):
have an excellent point. I thinkthe fact that Doge was writing to Albus
about all these adventures that Albus didn'tget to go on, we're definitely fueling
the fires of I gotta get thehell out of here. That absolutely stirred
the pot. Yeah, definitely.No, I'm sure that that Dumbledore was

(01:35:26):
already like kind of pouting, kindof mythed that you had to stay there
with the siblings, and he feltresentment towards them. And here comes Grindelwald
and he's like, oh hello,and it's kind of like a Valius stitch
exactly like like every time like theywrote letters to each other, because every

(01:35:48):
time he tried to just have aconversation with grendel Wald, he turned into
Jeff Goldbloom. Oh oh oh um, well um um, let me unbutton
my shirt sexily across this tam lifefinds Away, Keller, don't you know

(01:36:15):
life finds away? Oh my gosh, Wow, that was a fun Zac
quest. But you know, speakingof Elfius Doge, when he mentions this
tour traditional tour of the world,this is something that's always kind of stuck

(01:36:36):
in my crawl a little bit.Why is this the only time this ever
comes up? Because I think takinga tour of the world is a great
idea. I think the traditional tourof the world is a much better way
of experiencing wizarding cultures than bringing onlytwo other cultures to your school for nine

(01:36:58):
months to do three very dangerous challengesfor one tournament and calling that international magical
cooperation. No, send the kidsout to the other countries and experience them
on their terms. Let them showtheir culture to you instead of just expecting
them to pack it up in atrunk and bring it to your school or

(01:37:20):
do an exchange program. Yeah,do an exchange program. But this this
kind of like tour of the world. I think used to be more traditional
in history too. You know,like you'd you'd go live if you were

(01:37:40):
from the US, you'd go livein Europe for a year or whatever.
You know, after backpacking, theycalled it back. Well, not even
just that, I'm thinking even beforethat, like that used to be more
of a thing of and it's justkind of fallen out of fashion. It
got too expensive. You know.It's there's I mean people still do that,

(01:38:02):
but it's usually very wealthy people whoare like, here's my gap year
and I'm going to go travel theworld before I go to college whatever.
Because they used to do like theGrand Tour where artists would go into Europe
and learn from the masters. Butyeah, as changes in like what's considered
the highest form of like a majoryou should have and whatnot, Like now
it's more tech based. Yeah,like things just changed in terms of what's

(01:38:26):
important. But there's there's you know, there's more the pressure of go right
to school so that you can getinto the job force more and you can
like, you know, be makingmoney sooner faster, instead of more of
a focus of kind of having amore well rounded life and and experiencing things
and you know, so that's kindof what I see it as more is

(01:38:48):
it's it's just not the emphasis thatthe world places on anymore. I think
it's still a great idea and ifit was possible, more people should do
it. But we also get mentionedWhampwamp the greatest and all we're ever gonna
get closest to seeing it as thelamest movie, barely hinting at it.

(01:39:13):
Whompwamp, that's all we're ever gonnaget anyway, I think that would have
been like they could have done thiswith such fantastic visuals, kind of like
like the Ministry battle. But we'renever gonna get it because of everything crappy
that's happened around that. So sadI never gonna get it, never gonna

(01:39:40):
get it enough, though, don'tmakes a direct connection, a direct comparison
between this battle between Dumbledore and Grindewaldand Harry's first defeat of Voltemore when he
was a baby. Really, thereyou go. There's your biggest over exaggeration.

(01:40:05):
Because one of them was a duel, one of them was a murder
that didn't go the way he hopedit would, one of them was planned
to a certain extent, one ofthem was a plan that got foiled.

(01:40:25):
I mean, in terms of theimpact, they aren't even really the same
because Grindelwald is still alive and injail at this point, and everyone knows
that he's in Nurmanard regretting his lifechoices, Whereas when Voldemort tried to kill
Harry and it didn't work out,he was presumed dead for over a decade.

(01:40:47):
I think impact at least they comparehardly because Grindelwald there could have been
this. If people were really asafraid of grindle Wald as they ever were
of Voldemort, then their should havebeen a lot more tension that he could
break out of jail. If Griddawaldcould achieve everything he achieved up to the
point that he had this duel withDumbledore in nineteen forty five, he could

(01:41:11):
break out of jail, and asfar as people may have been worried about
it, we don't have enough contextualevidence to proof that they weren't. But
still, if I knew that themost dangerous human being in the world,
who had a cult of followers thatspans the globe, was alive and in
jail, I would be constantly worriedthat they would riot and try to break

(01:41:35):
him out. But that never happens. Whereas Voldemort tries to kill Harry fails
and presumably he's dead, the DeathEaters flip on him, or they get
rounded up and sent to jail,and people just go back to It's like
a new dawn because people think Voldemortis gone forever, and so they resume

(01:41:56):
living their lives without this fear thatVoldemort is going to come back. The
only people who are sure that Voldemortwill come back someday are Dumbledore in his
inner circle, but the rest ofthe world is not in any way worried
that Voldemort is going to come backsomeday. Proof when he does come back,
half the people in the Wizarding worldare content to bury their heads in

(01:42:16):
the sand and listen to the dailyprophet in the Ministry of Magic and not
believe that he is back. Mvery different and a rebuttal I just feel
like we see more fear of Voldemortthan we ever saw of Grendewald Wold.
Yeah, because we say Volt.There's hardly a chapter that doesn't have Voldemort's

(01:42:41):
name in it. The whole time. He's supposed to be the main bad
guy. We were never supposed toget this much background on Grindelwald up until
this time, because until this timeit doesn't really matter all that much,
whereas with Voldemort, his name comesup in almost most every chapter of this
entire series. He is never farfrom our thoughts, and he's in the

(01:43:05):
direct entity of the area that Harrystory is happening. So it would make
sense that we would see more aboutvoldemortin be more afraid of Voldemore because that's
the population that we're seeing. Doesthat make sense? Yeah, yeah,
no, it does. But Istill think impact wise, at least they're

(01:43:28):
on par with each other impact wise, if Harry is the center of the
universe, Voldemort is like Mercury orpossibly Venus, and at best Grindelwald is
Neptune. No, I mean,I mean like impact on the wider wizardom
world, like the downfall of Voldemoreand the downfall of Grindewald, pretty similar
impacts generationally speaking. Maybe because youalso have to take into account there's a

(01:43:53):
whole generation of people in the Wisioningworld who never learned the name Voldemort because
they grew up around the same timethat Dumbledore and Grindelwald were coming into their
own. Grindelwald gets defeated and thenthey die never hearing the name Voldemort.
So yeah, for them in particular, But if we're taking into it,

(01:44:15):
if we're taking into account this entirehistory that we're looking back on. I
really don't think so, and maybelike maybe the impact was the same,
but we but again we just don'tsee it because it's in a different part
of the world. So it hasaffected them, but we don't get to
see exactly how. Speaking of generationaldivides, though, Harry finishes reading this

(01:44:44):
article again and he says he feelshumiliated and ashamed that he had never asked
Dumbledore anything about his life, thathe never got any of this personal information
right. He reflects on the mostpersonal thing he ever asked was what Dumbledore
saw in the mirror of air,said, and Dumbledore says, a pair
of socks, And Harry's like,how could I have never asked him about

(01:45:09):
himself? We only ever talked aboutme, my life, my goal,
my destiny, you know, andI never said anything about him. And
I every time I think this ofjust this is such a moment of maturity,
you know, when you realize thatthe adults in your life have lives
outside of you, that they haveexperiences that they were teenagers. Once you

(01:45:32):
know that they are not just therewhen you're looking at them. It's kind
of like when when you figure outthat your teachers don't live at school under
their desks that you know, theyare their own human beings. And I
think that's so fascinating that Harry reallycatches onto that at this point because he's

(01:45:58):
seventeen now almost it's wild kind ofmold through this moment. I don't think
it's late, because I feel likemost people start to have these realizations around
the same time. When you're cominginto adulthood yourself. You start to realize,
oh, well, wait, youknow my teacher they were a teenager
too, but you would think wouldhave led to him asking more questions.

(01:46:21):
But I guess it just never reallyoccurred to him because you know, most
teenagers, we think we already haveeverything figured out, so we don't need
to ask questions. They don't needto know, and it wouldn't because the
world gets wider the older you get, your perspective opens up, the more
people that you meet, and alsothe more of life you experience, the

(01:46:42):
more of life you have to lookback on, and the more people you
meet you realize that they've also gonethrough those same things that you yourself have
just been through. So this isusually, I think, as you said
about the first time in a person'slife that they would really start to think,
Oh, this person was the agethat I am now or the age
that I was not that long ago. They may have been through things similar

(01:47:05):
to what I've been through, andthat might explain a lot. Yeah,
It's like when you go back andwatch it, like I don't know,
Dulphin's Creek or something, and you'reyou're now an adult, you're thinking more
about the point of view of theparents because it's like now you're you're closer
to their age, and it's Ithink there's a meme where it's like Rugrats
and you realize that the dad it'sactually like twenty six or something like that,

(01:47:26):
and that's why he's a mess.It's like when sixteen year old Ariel
says, but Daddy, I lovehim, and you're like, no,
you don't. You're sixteen, Yeah, what exactly? But when you're a
kid, you're like, yeah,are you telling yeah, go get your
man? Yeah. I was like, oh, that's a I have absolutely

(01:47:47):
no objections to recasting Ariel as anyperson that some people might think might be
suitable to play her. Can wejust fix the part where she thinks she's
in love with somebody based on site, and she's content to give up everything
about herself together. Also, don'tget me started on the ending of the
original fairy Tale, because it's sodark, so much worse. Yeah,

(01:48:08):
so it's pretty dark. The oh, I can't stand the classic stories of
love where you fall in love withsomebody because of how they look and then
you all end up dead Romeo andJuliet fourteen year old anyway for a week
and then everyone's dead in the end. Honey, No, that's not a

(01:48:30):
classic, that's nonsense. Oh mygosh, good times. Well another dark
turn today? Um wow, speakingof hard turns, are we are we
through Tarita's book? Yet? Notyet? Not yet? We still got
a little bit to go with thisone. Yes, Mostly, I just
want to know what you guys thoughtDumbledore was like as a teen like and

(01:48:51):
if because he was getting all therecognition from the famous people and doing all
the big boy adult stuff, didthat have an effect on his relationship with
his peers or did he still havea lot of friends? And was he
very social or was he marvel?I think he might have been a loaner
if not for the fact that peoplewere drawn to his natural charisma, and

(01:49:15):
his knowledge. I think that's thepart where Doge is talking about the knowledge
with which he was always generous.If people had just left Dumbledore alone,
he would have been a loaner.But Dumbledore developed a peer group naturally because
he knew that. He figured outat a certain point, people will come
to him, people want to talkto him, people want to learn from

(01:49:35):
him, and through that he learnedthat, as Dodge says, his greatest
joy lies in teaching, because hemight not want to tell people things about
him, but he's a trustworthy personthat people want to tell things too,
and he can filter that through whateversentiment he still has and whatever knowledge he's

(01:49:58):
gained, and he can teach people, and that's his way of connecting to
others. But if people had notcome to him in the first place and
wanted to learn from him, thenI think he probably would have been just
content to spend his life alone.Yeah, I don't think he ever had
to do much social outreach. Ithink people like flocked to him, But

(01:50:21):
I think he definitely liked that attention, and I think he liked that aspect,
and I think he kind of likedbeing the center of attention. There.
All of that I think starts tochange after everything goes down with Grindewald,
and he starts to kind of reevaluateall of his priorities and everything he's

(01:50:43):
done. But I think as ateenager, he really did like kind of
being the top dog and being youknow, I'm the smartest, I'm the
best. Everyone comes to me andthey all want my opinion and my help
and that kind of stuff. Ican definitely see that being kind of his
attitude during that point of his life. That's the danger of because he's teaching

(01:51:08):
somebody that young, of not warningthem about the lure of ambition and the
he got. He got admits that, yeah, he admits that's why he
never could be the Minister for magicor anything is because he was like,
I have seen what having power doesto me, and that's not a good

(01:51:29):
thing. And so I can definitelysee him, you know, kind of
being in that position of in powerand maybe even misusing it a bit as
a teenager, and that being someof the lessons that taught him of,
oh, I am not trustworthy withthis right like, because I want it
too much because I like that feeling. And Thank goodness, he was wise

(01:51:50):
enough to see that and to makethat call well, and I think so
much of that too, of actuallyseeing the downside of that comes from everything
that happens with Grindewald, right,because he sees what the pursuit of power
and what getting power does to him, and then he sees how it makes
everything around him he should have reallycared about, yeah, fall apart,

(01:52:14):
and then he's like, oh wait, hold on, and that really sets
him on this journey of reevaluating.I mean, that's what That's what Doje
says in this article, right,He says he came home and Albus seemed
much sadder, much quieter, AndI think of that as a lot of
that. Oo guys, guys,guys, Oh this is so messed up.
But I just thought of this.He can't control himself, he can't

(01:52:41):
control his home life, but hecan control other people and they will let
him. So he wants to dothat because then he can vicariously feel like
he's in control of some life,if not his. Yeah, And that's

(01:53:06):
I mean, We've talked a lotof times about how manipulative Dumbledore is,
and that is really That's kind ofwhat it comes down to, is he
is really good at manipulating people,and people are happy to let him manipulate
them, and that is dangerous.That is a bad combination and realizes that,

(01:53:29):
right, and he I mean,that's kind of the difference between Dumbledore
and Voldemore almost right, is thatDumbledore realizes how terrible his ability to manipulate
and control is and why he needsto hold himself back from that. But
Voldemore says, nah, I'm goingto take it. I'm going to do

(01:53:51):
it. Can you imagine had Dumbledoregone dark, like, wow, he
would have unleashed Oh my gosh.He I fully believe because he's powerful,
like on the good side against Baltimore, but imagine them either him being darker

(01:54:16):
than Baltimore or them working together.Wow. Wow, I'll want that.
M so thank goodness, he cameto his senses and realized, hey,
I can't handle that. So Harryfinishes reading this article, this obituary,

(01:54:40):
and he decides to tear it outand take it with him. And my
thought was, why, right,why does he determine that this should go
with this small pile of things thathe's determined that he's deemed important enough to
take on this dangerous, crazy missionwith him, which I said it was

(01:55:01):
because even though he was kept inthe dark for so long and there was
a lot of things he didn't know, this is a journey that he started
with Dumbledore, and this is apiece of Dumbledore that he can take with
him as he completes the mission,so to speak, he still has a
little part. And then maybe it'salso a reminder. And I just thought

(01:55:26):
of this because he realized after readingthe obituary that he never asked any questions
of Dumbledore about himself. So maybeit's a reminder for him to be more
mindful of the people that he's around, and to be more mindful to ask
more questions and be more I don'tknow what I'm looking for here, but

(01:55:46):
hopefully that makes sense. I don'tknow where I was going. I think
a little bit of it also isDumbledore has just died and Harry's not processing
it because processing things is not hisforte. So he has torn out this
obituary because since it contains so muchof the Dumbledore he never knew. He's

(01:56:08):
literally carrying Dumbledore's legacy with him inthe form of an article written by somebody
else. And also I don't thinkhe knows that he's ever going to actually
meet Elfia Stoge, because I thinkat the wedding that was very much a
surprise for him. But I alsothink that maybe while he's looking for horcruxes,

(01:56:31):
there's a little bit of Harry thatthinks, Okay, I need to
get these Dumbledore questions answered so thatI can have some closure. So maybe
that's part of how he's trying toget it, is he's trying to remind
himself of here's all the things aboutDumbledore that I never knew. And if
I constantly read this article over andover again, then when I get to
a point where I can actually tryto get some answers, I will know

(01:56:56):
exactly what questions I need to ask. Yeah, I think that makes sense
for sure. And now we goto the opposite point of view out the
end of the spectrum, which isthis article from Rita Skeeter previewing her new
book. And oh my gosh,I forgot how much this article enrages me.
Oh my walls. First of allnine hundred pages in four weeks,

(01:57:23):
okay, from when doubled or Diesto the publication of this book, which
even if she was working on thisbefore, he died is an insane like
madness. What is the madness ofthis publishing industry? Because like, how
do you get through design editing,printing all this in four weeks? Like

(01:57:48):
even if the manuscript was done,that's crazy. I have key points to
that that I would like to raise. Number One, there is no way
she waited until Dumbledore was dead tostart writing this book. Dumbledore is like
the crown jewel of expose journalism forher. So there's no way she hasn't

(01:58:13):
been compiling all of this Dumbledore researchand started working on this manuscript. Like
there are probably, you know,huge gaps. She may have started with
the stuff that you already know becauseother people have talked about it, all
the stuff she's noticed about him justfrom following his career and all the stuff
that's happened recently, and then shegoes in and she's filling in all the
gaps, like the stuff that shegot through very shady journalistic tactics from Betilda

(01:58:39):
Bagshot. I'm not even going toget started on that because we'll be here
all day if we do that today. We'll save that for when that chapter
comes up again. But so shehas definitely, I think been working on
this book for some time. She'sjust waited until Dumbledore passed to put the
rest of the pieces into the puzzleand finish it. The other the thing

(01:59:00):
is, I remember the chapter inGoblet of Fire where she's interviewing Harry and
the quill is writing down a bunchof stuff that neither of them is saying
out loud and abolishing a bunch ofHarry's sentences. Doesn't that remind you of
all these AI chatbots that people areusing now, where you just say,
give me an artigraphic about Alpus Dumbledore'scomplicated past that addresses his family issues,

(01:59:30):
his career, etc. Like youbasically program in about a paragraph of what
you need, and then the quickquotes quill just starts churning it out.
But I'm not even talking about Rita'sinput here, I'm just talking about the
rest of it. For volume two, it was probably a good six months
from the time we turned in thefinal manuscript to when we got our advanced

(01:59:54):
copies, Like, yeah, fourweeks for everything that goes into that,
Like that's crazy, like not evenreading notwithstanding, like what is happening at
these wizarding publishing houses nine hundred pages. There was a lot of coffee and

(02:00:15):
not a lot of sleep going on. Because it's one thing, I'll say
this. I know that Rita Skeeteris not everybody's favorite, but Devil's advocate
for just a second. One thingthat Rita Skeeter is definitely right about is
when she says that people were queuingto dish the dirt on Dumbledore, even
the people who liked him. Likeeverybody was very, very anxious for this

(02:00:43):
book, whether she was the oneto write it or not. People wanted
to talk about Dumbledore. People wantthe truth about Dumbledore. People want to
express opinions about Dumbledore, especially consideringthe shady circumstances surrounding his death. Like
she's right, people are queuing todish the dirt on Dumbledore. So between
her, her agent that she probablyhas, the publisher who's putting out the

(02:01:03):
book, all the people who haveto work together to make this thing happen,
they probably thought she's right. Alot of people want to write these
books about Dumbledore, but this onealready has some traction. And I have
a reputation for writing the kind ofstories that people can't help but read anyway.
So when she pitches this book andsays I've already got some of it
done. I just need to finishit. They're like, okay, we

(02:01:26):
are at your disposal. And therewas not a lot of sleep happening for
four weeks to make this happen.Still that, oh, I'm sunna forget
they have magic. Yeah, sothey do have magic. So magic,
I'm sure it plays a huge role. While four weeks is still pretty wild.
But I mean, yeah, evenwith magic, you can only make

(02:01:51):
the printing machines go so fast.And unless well, I don't know,
it's wild. No one comes toread a Skeeter, Like I said,
not everyone's favorite. But I tendto think of the stuff that she writes
in one of three categories. Like, by the way I think of it
is she's got three speeds. Oneis tough but fair. Like when she

(02:02:15):
reports on the Ministry stuff apart fromthe embellishments, about several bodies were removed
from the woods, like I thinkshe is correct to go after the Ministry
for not knowing how to handle themselves. That is correct and accurate. Then
the second speed would be probably shouldn't. Like when she points out that we

(02:02:35):
don't know for sure that perfectly innocentpeople didn't have a hand in certain murders,
Like when she talks about how Dumbledore'sdeath is suspicious. I agree,
it's okay to point that out.But the way she again, the way
she packages it is when she talksabout how Dumbledore fell pushed or was I

(02:02:57):
don't know what else. It's likeafter he fell he was pushed or whatever
else, Like she's intentionally trying toget people to draw certain conclusions about it.
She didn't need to do it,she did it on purpose because she
had a goal in mind. Andthen there are things that she should definitely,
definitely not okay, like pretty muchany time she brings up Harry every

(02:03:20):
time, like saying, oh,Harry and die are close. Lie,
I'm the only one who knows thereal Harry, Lie sneaking into school to
report on him collapsing in class andthen insinuating that he shouldn't be in the
tournament because he's disturbed and possibly dangerous. Lie. See, that's not why
he shouldn't be in the tournament.But it's not that I slightly disagree because

(02:03:44):
I think Rita Skeeter only has onething ever in mind, ever, and
that sensationalism. Everything she does isto sell, and the most sensational thing
will sell, and every once ina while, yes it'll fall into one
of these three categories. Every oncein a while when she's looking for the
most sensational thing, she's gonna hiton something true. But so much of

(02:04:05):
it, that's all it is.And the biggest thing that for me really
stands out in this article is thisquote where she says, you know as
well as I do, how muchinformation can be generated, right, generated
made up by a fat bag ofgalleons, a refusal to hear the word

(02:04:26):
no, and a nice sharp quickquotes quill. So there are so many
red flags here for me that she'sbeing completely unethical. Right, she's paying
people off to get information, Sheis hounding people to get information, probably
doing some very terrible things. Thequick quotes quill, which as we've seen,

(02:04:47):
totally makes stuff up, does noteven accurately capture things. We also
know that she illegally goes around asa buff gas a beatle to get information
that she shouldn't have access to,and so just so much. And then
of course there's a whole thing whereshe takes advantage of until the backshot.

(02:05:10):
And I mean she writes in hernote that you don't remember saying any of
it and just completely in the bookeven it was worth the effort I put
into procuring verity serum, that's nota yes. Now, yeah, she
is completely unethical and openly so.And I am just like it makes me

(02:05:31):
want to scream, Like it's thesame reason that I want to scream when
people believe crazy like conspiracy theory stuffin the real world, because I'm like,
the tiniest bit of just given commonsense checking in your brain of does
this actually make sense would totally tearthis apart. And I'm just like,

(02:05:51):
wow, like anyone who reads readA Skeeter stuff, how's it's so ridiculous
how openly unethical she is and peoplestill eat her stuff up. It drives
me nuts. But is it Ritacreating the sensationalism that drives you nuts?

(02:06:12):
Or is it the way people eatup the sensationalism that drives you next?
Because let's let's be honest about youknow, if we're gonna, if we're
gonna you know, I'm not Iagree Rita Skeeter is a sensationalist, but
at the same time she says theDaily She one time says the Daily Prophet
exists to sell itself. People wantto read these things that she is right,

(02:06:34):
And it's it's that vicious cycle,because it is a vicious cycle that
all of it drives me crazy becauseif people buy it, you can't stop
it. Like like I likenance youthe Wizarding National empirer. Yeah, Like
that's what wrote Rita reminds me of. And if people are interchained in buying
it, like what are you gonnado? Why would you stop? Yeah?

(02:06:56):
This is the same wizarding population thatwas content to eat up all the
bullcrap that Gildoy Lockhart put into hisbooks without fact checking anything that he did
or asking for any kind of practicaldemonstrations of anything that he wrote about in
his list of accomplishments. Well,and it's it's a fascinating, almost almost
prophetic in a way to the Internetof how many things are out there that

(02:07:18):
people just believe without fact checking.I mean, the thing that I think
of right now is all the crapthat goes around on TikTok and people just
believe that without you know, Imean, they're just like, yes,
of course this must be the onlything. And it's like, what like
it must be true? Yes,and how yeah widespread misinformation can be and

(02:07:43):
how easily people will take it andhow dangerous yes, how completely dangerous it
is another another kind of prophetic line. Here is um, oh, yes,
here it is. It says Ican promise that anybody who still thinks
Dumbledore was white as his beard isin for a rude awakening. Let's just

(02:08:05):
say that nobody hearing him rage againstyou know, who would have dreamed that
he dabbled in the dark arts himselfin his youth. And for a wizard
who spent his later years pleading fortolerance, he wasn't exactly broad minded when
he was younger. And this wasanother thing that feels very prophetic to me
again with the Internet, where peoplewill find something someone said ten years ago

(02:08:26):
and then try and demolish them withit, you know what I'm saying,
Like someone will find a tweet someonetweeted out ten years ago and then say,
look, they're a terrible person becauseof this. And again this idea
that people can't change and grow,or they can't reevaluate their beliefs as they
learn more, as they experience morethat they can't evolve, you know,

(02:08:50):
And that's almost what Ried is doinghere, is what people do on the
internet today, where we kind ofcollapse time and say that anything there,
we can't take anything in context ofwhen and what. And yeah, that
was just fascinating to me to rereadthat and think about that idea and how

(02:09:11):
prevalent that is, that there's somuch out there. And obviously, yes
there are people that don't change andgrow and that say terrible things and hold
onto them, but not giving peoplethat chance and saying they were like this
as a child, Like how shesays, well he pled for tolerance lately,
but he wasn't that way as ayouth. Well what could have happened

(02:09:35):
that they made, you know,like those experiences probably led him to say,
oh, being tolerant to people isthe better idea, you know.
And that was just fascinating to me. And honestly, who is the same
as because I mean I was saying, and I'm like, I'm completely different
from the person I was even sixmonths ago. So because different experiences,

(02:09:58):
you're always every day it's a differentexperience. So Rider herself, I'm sure,
is not the same as she waswhen she was younger, so you
can't really demonize Dumbledore for something thathe did as a teenager when she probably
has some skeletons and she totally doesthe same. I'd love to see that

(02:10:20):
book reader what you never knew readingSkeeter like um. And that then,
of course brings us into this wholesection about the quote Potter Dumbledore relationship.
And I'm actually going to throw RitaSkeeter a bone here. Is she on

(02:10:45):
to something not as exaggerated as sheportrays, right? But is there an
element of unhealthiness in Harry and Dumbledore'srelationship. That's why I said tough but
fair, because you know what,Doubledore doesn't have a relationship with anyone,

(02:11:07):
possibly with McGonagall, maybe with someof the other teachers that he works with
a lot, but they still don'treally know him. So I don't know
how much you could really call thata relationship unless you just consider it a
professional one. But when you getright down to it in terms of the
people he actually probably feels he himselfhas a relationship with. None of his

(02:11:31):
relationships are healthy. They've never beenhealthy. So yes, the in fact,
the relationship between Harry and doubledore mightbe the most unhealthy relationship he's ever
had. I mean, I don'tthink it's a necessary I don't think an
healthy is the right term here.I mean maybe it is. I don't

(02:11:56):
know. It's like it's a trustingas the adult, the more experienced wizard,
what have you. Dumbledore more expectsHarry to just blindly trust and follow
him and do whatever and go alongwith whatever, and then Harry just does
it, doesn't question anything ever,which on one side, I feel like

(02:12:16):
that's typical of a teenager because youknow, you expect the adults to have
all the answers. You expect theadults and know what's going on, have
their craft together, and you don'tquestion it. But it's kind of I
believes you kind of in a catchtwenty two situation because you need the skill
of being able to question as youget older, because you can't just blindly

(02:12:41):
follow everyone who is in an authoritativeposition. And like doctors, for example,
so many people don't advocate for themselvesat the doctor's office because they just
assumed the doctor knows what they're talkingabout, when that's not always the case.
So it was like Harry just kindof assumed Dumble or knew what was
going on and trusted him and whathave you, and he was an important

(02:13:05):
figure, and so I don't reallythink it was unhealthy. I think it
was a typical I don't want tosay typical because it really wasn't, but
it was a common teacher student dynamic. What do you think. I don't
think it would have been unhealthy ifDumbledore didn't use it to its advantage of

(02:13:28):
the relationship. Um, like hehe knows that Harry, like you were
saying that Harry is going to bedoing. He says like he knows that
Harry wants that frontal figure. SoI think they were just it was just
like an an average like teacher studentrelationship. I think it'd be fine,
but Dumbledore uses the child advantage andthat's what makes it unhealthy. M that's

(02:13:52):
a very fair point, speaking ofrelationships. Um again this because this was
standing out to Harry reads this articlethat's very clearly lying about him. You
know, of course Rita says,yes, we're great friends. I'm the
only one who knows him. AndI thought this was kind of There was
an interesting take in here on mediaand on parasocial relationships and this idea of

(02:14:20):
can we really know anyone just throughmedia? Right? Can we ever truly
know a person just through that?No? Absolutely not no, Because on
the one hand, if it's abunch of people posting about somebody else,
then you can't go based off ofthat, because things get filtered through people's

(02:14:41):
own lenses, through comments, sections, through captions, through the intentions that
they have in sharing the content inthe first place. So no. And
then on the other hand, oneof the appeals of social media, or
at least what it's supposed to be, is complete and total transparency. People
are supposed to control the our ownnarrative, show you who they are on
their terms, but again, they'refiltering it through what they're comfortable showing you,

(02:15:07):
and even then it can still getpicked up by other people and grossly
misrepresented into something else. So throughmedia, no, it's impossible to get
to know a person for real.That's why people have to actually get out
of their phone, get off theircomputer, go outside and be with people.
I agree. But even with that, like I begged the question,

(02:15:28):
even if you do that and you'rewith somebody every day, do you ever
really truly know somebody? Because there'sso many instances where a person doesn't even
know themselves, So how can youknow them if they don't know that?
We're getting extra sense here we go, and how do you know? How
do you know that that won't change? Because I know people, I knew

(02:15:50):
people, I knew who they were, but I don't know them now,
and that can be said of meto a lot of people. But you
have to take that risk when youlet people in. You have to get
to know them where they're at,and you can't just accept this is all
I'm ever going to know of them, this is all they're ever going to

(02:16:11):
be. Because you're never too oldto change. I hate when people use
that as an excuse to not change. You're never too old. You just
aren't making me just the way Iam. Yeah. Yeah, So I
also don't necessarily believe in people sayingthat they are set in their ways.
That's an excuse. If you're comfortableand confident with who you are and you

(02:16:31):
like that, then that's fine,But don't use that you're set in your
ways as an excuse to be inflexible. I mean, think about all the
people who don't like that find outfrom ancestry that like their parents aren't their
parents, Like you're told whatever narrativethat people, you have to believe whatever
narrative people tell you, even aboutyourself. Episodes like how can you do
with social media? Exactly? Andwe end this chapter with Harry taking a

(02:16:52):
look, I mean kind of processingboth of these articles he's read and with
the broken mirror, and I againa very hairy reaction. He has a
very immediate and passionate reaction that everythingRita said is a lie. He even
ends up shouting at it about it, right, He like screams lies and

(02:17:20):
yeah, that's that is Again,this is a moment that it's so hairy,
right that he being so Gryffindor,is so convinced that this is this
is and being part gryffind Or myself, I know this. You're so convinced
you're right, that anything that goesagainst your repoint must be wrong, right,

(02:17:43):
And it's really hard to reevaluate thatand try and find, okay,
what we're actually the truth, youknow, But that is his immediate reaction.
I always think about I visualize thatpoor neighbor who's just hanging out outside.
Oh my god, what that's great. That should have been any movie

(02:18:09):
I've been great then, as justthinking about this, he thinks he sees
a blue eye in the mirror,which, as we find out later,
is aber Fourth keeping an eye onHarry through the mirror. Can you imagine
if Aber Fourth like was there forthat yelling, just like Aberworth is just

(02:18:30):
like he just heard flies and he'slike what He's like, what is happening
new mirror? Who this is?This is making me laugh. You have
to tell us about this comment becauseI'm talking up like the eyes of the
wind of the soul. It's likethat phrase, let's get to use a

(02:18:52):
lot. It's just time I thinkof eyes. It just it makes me
laugh, especially in the Harry Potterbecause of what the whole green eyes blue
ice thing. It's just I'm like, okay to mention. The souls come
up in Harry Potter very often.Yeah, whenever I think of that controversy
about the eyes though, I justthink of that meme where it's like they
have Ellie as Lily being like havehair dans Harry being like and it's like

(02:19:13):
that's your mother's eyes. Snap shotsof them like halfway through getting oh my
gosh, that's all. Yeah,they just focus on it way too much.
They went all the way, likein the wrong direction because they went
wet blue eyes, brown eyes.There was some brown eyes in the air.

(02:19:35):
Nobody knows anymore. They're just wrong. Like if you don't mention it,
no one will, no one willremember. Just look, we know,
we know, Hi, We're righthere. You know we we used
our eyes. So my last questionbefore we wrap this up is did anybody

(02:19:56):
else think that this might actually bealbs, because I'm pretty sure I did
on my first reading, and itwas this moment of like, O him,
no, hell, no, Iwould have been didn't no, I
would have been so mad. Ifthat's worthis was heading because this was a
two way mirror that Harry was opposedto use to keep in touch with Sirius

(02:20:20):
who was still alive. And whenHarry tried to use the mirror to communicate
with Sirious after he was dead andit didn't work, he was devastoted.
And that's why the mirror is broken, because Harry smashed it. And if
you were telling me that either adead Dumbledore or a Dumbledore who wasn't really
dead, which would have been somuch worse because they had a funeral for

(02:20:41):
him, if you're telling me thatsomehow Dumbledore Albus Dumbledore managed to reach out
to Harry through this mirror fragment whenHarry couldn't use it to talk to Sirius.
I would have been so pissed.But you didn't even have a moment
when you first read it of beinglike wait a second, no, wow,
I had a whole theory. Iwas like, Dumbladore so took some

(02:21:01):
kind of a sleeping postion and theyjust made it look like he was blasted
off the tower when he was layingdown there. He wasn't really dead,
and they came and they carried himoff and he was asleep, and then
they brought him back and he wentinto hiding like it was I'm doing.
It was that ending would be sobad, that could be the series finale

(02:21:26):
of a Netflix show. But umcha, because they're bad at series finale's.
I agree, it would have beenreally bad, but that I mean,
that's what I thought. I waslike, Nope, Dumbladore's live.
I was in denial for a longtime, but it was so long that's
hilarious. Well, Harry's gonna havesome questions he's got to answer now,

(02:21:46):
as he goes throughout the book,but that last line of this chapter is
very haunting, where it just saysthe blue eyes of Albus Dumbledore would never
pierce him again, and it's like, whoa, that's where we leave it,
which I could go a few differentways. So I mean, I

(02:22:18):
I'm so sorry. We will savethat for another time. And you,
well, um, I think wehad a pretty good discussion. We took
some side trips and and that's okaybecause that's what we do, that's what
we do best. Side chriss um. But Titia, thank you so so

(02:22:41):
much for joining us and for hangingout with us. Even though you didn't
really say all that, the thingsthat you said were incredibly profound. So
um, is there anywhere that youknow the listeners can go to follow you?
Do you have a social media Doyou have any kind of um like
website or charity or something that yousupport that you think they should check out.

(02:23:03):
Don't have, um really any placeto go like a website or anything.
But I did some research for thelike the podcast that Bailey Saian did
called Our History, So UM,yeah, I did the first why are
you? Oh my gosh, youknow what I listened to her religiously and
I heard your name, and becauseshe did, she does like the credits

(02:23:24):
at the end. Yeah, andI'm like, hmm, that name sounds
familiar. That's so cool. Okay, I'm sorry, this is about you.
I'm sorry, girls, I'm sorryin the worries. Thank you for
having me. I appreciate being on. Well, hopefully we get to see
you again soon. Definitely, I'dlove to see you again. Now,

(02:23:46):
our next episode will be about yetanother character's constant emotional turmoil. We will
be discussing Prisoner of Azkaband chapter fourteensnapes Grudge. That's a chapter that the
chapter title is somewhat deceptive because Ifeel like the chapter isn't really about that,

(02:24:09):
but I'll leave that for the hostto sign to that episode to talk
about it. It's so good,it really is. And grudge rhymes with
fudge, which is also delicious.So first of all, we want to
what nothing keep going? Okay,I'm hungry now, okay, it's it's

(02:24:33):
okay. So if you would liketo be a guest on the show,
like our friend Tisha, all youhave to do is go to our website
Alohamora podcast dot com and just clickwhere it says to be on the show.
You just follow the instructions to sendus your audition, and in the
meantime, you can keep up withus on all of our social media channels.

(02:24:56):
We've got Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, and Spotify at alohomra m N.
We are on Facebook at Open theDumbledore. And any thoughts about the
show you would like to share withus privately, you can always email us
at a locomoa podcast at gmail dotcom. And we again want to thank
Madison for sponsoring this episode. Andyou can head over to patreon dot com

(02:25:24):
slash alohoma and become a sponsor foras little as two dollars a month.
You get an ad pre version ofthe show. You can watch the video
of the episodes. You can joinDumbledore's Office, you can sponsor episodes,
bonus episodes, clips, so muchmore on our Patreon. Come join us,
come support the show. We appreciateit so much when you do.

(02:25:48):
And with that, we're gonna gopack our own ruck sacks to head out
on our own adventures. I'm Alison, I'm Jeff, and I'm Seanny,
and thank you for listening to episodethree hundred and seven of Alhama, and
remember watch out for cold cups oftea on the floor when you open the
dumbledore. That was good. Algomais produced by Tracy Dunstan and edited by

(02:26:22):
Patrick Musleach. It was co createdby Noah Freed and Cat Miller and is
brought to you by ap WB dLLLC. This is totally a side note

(02:26:46):
while we're waiting for Jeff but umsomeone. The other day we were doing
like a debate game like this orthat, and they put Harry Potter against
Percy Jackson and I was like,I will not be participating in this to
me because you cannot put my sonsup against each other. And I went
on like a whole rant about likehow this question is unfair and we should

(02:27:09):
not put them together, we shouldnot try and put them like against each
other. And everyone was like,you've got insane, and I was like,
listen, it's two different things,like you can't, you can't.
I was like, they're different voices, they're different eras, they're different topics,
they're and they're both amazing. Ohthat's great, it's a good time.

(02:27:39):
Side don't Are you excited about theTV show appreciation? Yeah? Heck
yes, because The only thing Ilike about the movies is logan and learning
is Everything else about those movies ishorrific um. But I'm really excited because,
like rick, Ryarden's been very involvedin the TV series and he's had

(02:28:03):
a lot of really good things tosay about it. So I'm excited.
I'm about to out myself and saythat I have never read all of the
Percy Jackson books. I've only everwatched the first movie, and I really
liked it, but I just neverlike went back and read the books.
I've read all the books either,to be fair, that actually might be
something good for my kids this summer. They loved it. They were you

(02:28:30):
going to library? All right?Yes, okay, bye, I love you.

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