February 4, 2026 • 43 mins
In this episode of Barbecue Catering Smarts, Michael Attias sits down with Jim Lenzen, Owner of Jimmy L's, a barbecue operator who built a multi-state catering business from a small-town base in western Nebraska—without cutting corners or competing on price.
Jim shares his unconventional path into barbecue catering, from cooking for wind farm crews to executing three weddings a weekend, multi-trailer vending events, and catering across six states. He explains how focusing on certified Nebraska beef, disciplined systems, and relationship-first selling helped Jimmy L's scale while maintaining consistency, quality, and trust.
The conversation dives into the realities of large-scale BBQ catering—from trailer vending as a lead generator, to staffing and training young teams, to why Jim refuses to play the price game. Jim also outlines the three biggest mistakes operators make when scaling, the importance of knowing your numbers, and how staying true to your values can become a competitive advantage.
If you're looking to grow catering beyond your local market while protecting margins, food quality, and your sanity, this episode delivers real-world insight from an operator who's lived it.
Barbecue Catering Smarts is sponsored by CaterZen Catering Software.
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(00:12):
.
and streamline their catering operations.
Every episode, we're serving up expert advice, proven systems, and flavorful strategiesstraight from top leaders in the barbecue and catering world.
So fire up the pit.
It's time for another sizzling episode.
(00:38):
Again, I'm Michael Attias, your host of Barbecue Catering Smarts, today's guest is JimLenzon, owner of Jimmy Ells.
Jim has built a reputation for delivering bold, crowd-pleasing barbecue while handling thereal-world demands that come with catering, from large-scale events to high expectations
around consistency, timing, and execution.
As a hands-on operator, Jim understands that great barbecue catering isn't just about thefood, it's about preparation systems and making sure every event runs smoothly from
(01:07):
loadout to last bite.
brings a grounded practical perspective shaped by years in the business and we're excitedto have him on the show today.
But before we get started, let's take a moment to recognize our sponsor, CaterZen CateringSoftware.
They help barbecue restaurants turn their catering chaos into calm.
Discover why barbecue restaurants trust CaterZen to save them time and increase cateringsales.
(01:28):
Go to caterzen.com and sign up for walkthrough of the software.
Now let's dive into this episode of Barbecue Catering Smart.
Welcome, Jim.
How are you doing today?
Good, sir.
How are you?
Great, great.
Before we get going, I'd like love to do an icebreaker question.
Give me a number between 1 and 300.
24.
Oh, OK.
(01:49):
If you suddenly lost two hours every day, a 22 hour day, what would you cut out of yourcurrent schedule to accommodate for the lost time?
Just two hours of sleep.
How many hours of sleep do you get now?
About six, maybe four.
Oh, yeah.
I don't know if I could handle two to four hours.
(02:10):
Maybe you're younger.
You can deal with that.
So before we get in, know, I always like to ask people, how did you get in the business?
Kind of weird, I guess.
I worked for a wind farm years ago when they became...
they first came out here.
(02:32):
And I ended up doing all the weekend cooking.
Every Friday we barbecued.
And so my old boss, he ruined like $500 worth of steaks one time.
And I told him, if you ever touch my grill again, I'll kill you.
And so then I ended up cooking for my entire crew.
and it just morphed into what it morphed into.
(02:54):
When you think about a wind farm, my fiance's from Michigan.
We pass by wind farms all the time.
I didn't know they had uh windmill ranchers that are out there.
I guess, like anything else, they got to take care of the equipment and make sure it's alloperational.
Yep.
And that's what I did.
And then after that, I went to teaching those guys to do it for 10 years.
(03:18):
And they do a good job with it.
So when did you open up your own shop?
We did our first wedding was the very first thing we did.
That was 17, 18 years ago.
One of the buddies I worked with never catered anything and we just 100 % fully winged itand then it just kind of took off.
(03:39):
off.
You look pretty young.
Did you start at 17 or 18 doing this?
No.
little older than you think I am.
You're giving me a lot of credit.
credit.
Maybe it's a ball cap.
I don't know.
Well, good for you.
So do you have a restaurant or you just do catering and concessions?
(03:59):
Four concession trailers.
We run a large catering operation.
And then January through May 1, every Friday, we run a restaurant with only two menuitems.
Brisket and beans?
No.
whatever I want to cook that week.
It can go from, like last week we did burn-ins, ribs, pulled chicken, brisk sausage.
(04:26):
And then this week's uh tri-tip with a smoked chimichurri, fancy potato, just whatever Iwant to cook.
We're in a town of 5,000 people, so this is our fourth year doing it, and everybody's kindof grabbed a hold of it, and they just kind of enjoy it.
it.
So how many hours are you open for on a Friday?
(04:47):
ah We can open three times, I think we're lapsed in about two and a half hours before wesell out.
out.
That's the best problem I have is the sell out.
It's a good one.
So is this out of like a warehouse you have for equipment or is it a restaurant or whereare you serving out of?
No, we've got a full blown venue restaurant setting in our warehouse.
(05:12):
front half of it.
When I got the building, it had a big bar in it.
so we're like, well, let's use this thing.
thing.
So during the season I'm assuming because you're in Nebraska and everyone's freezing theirtails off that's why you open on Fridays there's probably not a lot of weddings and events
in the winter because it's too cold so you're you're using it as sort of keeping busy andand you know having having some fun and making a few bucks.
(05:37):
Yeah, I don't know if there's money made doing it, but it keeps me busy, gives mesomething to do, and it's a challenge.
Fun.
So one of the things we talked about offline was certified beef, certified brisket.
You know, I think the average person, you know, you've heard of Wagyu beef, right, andother brands.
(06:01):
For someone listening that's not familiar with certified beef, explain what it is and whywould I want to use certified beef versus, you know, is a brisket not a brisket is not a
brisket?
So a brisket is a brisket, but a brisket isn't a brisket.
I don't know how many brisket you've cooked, but we cooked thousands of them.
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And the thing about briskets is some people like big ones, some people like small ones.
I prefer anywhere between that 12 and 18 pound range.
And so the certified meat, what it does for us, guarantees me that.
It also guarantees me that it's American made.
made.
(06:43):
So are you telling me that there people getting briskets from China or wherever?
Argentina, Australia, Venezuela, Mexico, Canada, those are your major importers.
Ecuador imports some.
So I just want to control my product.
We use Greater Omaha certified Herefords, and those are mostly coming out of WesternNebraska.
(07:06):
Is that a better quality beef than you might get from a Mexico?
What makes it again?
I'm an amateur, right?
I just go to the grocery store.
I buy brisket and you know when I had my barbecue restaurant and out of we were based outof Memphis, but my stores in Nashville, it was 90 % pork ribs, pork shoulder.
(07:27):
So brisket wasn't a
seller for us.
So what's the advantage or the differences of certified Nebraska versus an import?
So about 12, 15 years ago, our distributor accidentally sent us the Greater OmahaHerb-Berg Beef.
(07:47):
And I cooked it, and I could tell there was a richer, flavor for it.
And so I was like, OK, there's something to this.
And then I switched.
And then as I started doing research, I was like, wait a minute.
This is coming out from ranchers and people I know.
This is a better product.
And you can tell the difference.
(08:08):
difference.
it has a much richer flavor.
Yeah, I think the same thing with steaks, right?
Once upon a time, Outback had a decent steak.
But now if you eat an Outback steak versus a Ruth's Chris or Morton's, side by side, youcan tell there's a big difference, right?
(08:29):
How are you using that as a marketing advantage in what you sell?
Because I would imagine you have some competition.
Yeah, there's quite a bit of competition with what I do and where we travel.
for me, we're not looking.
Our trailer business and our summer catering business is the majority of our business.
(08:51):
And when we're doing our catering business, we want return customers.
We're not just looking to make a dollar.
same with our trailer business.
We're running four trailers.
and the mentality in that business is get your money, move on, we'll take your money nextyear, so on.
(09:12):
I want to grow that into my vending customers and to catering customers and peopleremember our business.
business.
So when you talk about trailers, are you doing state fairs and crafts fairs and big eventswhere you roll up and you're selling to individuals?
(09:34):
that?
Yes.
But you're not going to a office parking lot and setting it up on a Wednesday, are you?
It depends on the weather.
We do a little bit.
We've established some of these smaller towns that want us to come and do that.
But you're not making a lot of money by doing that.
(09:56):
You're just staying busy and just keeping your name out
out there.
So if you go out to State Fair or a big event, what would a big event, how many trailersare you pulling out?
what's a range of what you can sell at an event?
Range, are you, dollar-wise?
Yeah, dollar-wise.
Yeah, dollar-wise.
(10:19):
anywhere from probably I would say three to fifteen thousand a day is a good dollaramount.
amount.
Is that from one trailer?
Yes.
And you you mentioned something that thinks really important.
A lot of people think the the the one of my marketing mentors say a lot of people thinkthe purpose of a of a customer is to make a sale.
(10:45):
but he says the purpose of a sale is to make a customer.
And you talked about, we want those trailer clients to become catering clients, right?
Because you never know that person who loves your sandwich or ribs or whatever it is, theycould have a wedding for 250 on their, you know, at their church for their kid or be
involved in a groundbreaking or be plant manager for a big, how far out will you drive tocater?
(11:12):
We did.
a wedding in six different states this year.
this year.
Oh Oh Separate weddings in six states.
Yeah, so you'll drive two three hours for a big event We're in Western Nebraska just to goto the next town is 20 to 30 minutes so we have to drive regardless and you're rolling up
(11:35):
cooking on site and Yes, and no it depends on what the menu is yeah
Wow.
And what's the biggest event you've ever done?
We did the Sturgis motorcycle rally, which is a big one.
We've hosted some corporate parties for about 1,300 people.
(11:55):
So it was about 1,300, 2,000, your biggest?
Yeah, around there.
So the people listening, know, one of the things I did when I had my barbecue restaurantis I drew a map two hours, draw a circle two hours around Nashville.
And I said, hey, what major employers are there out in the country, right?
(12:16):
In Nashville, there's a lot of competition.
But when you go to um Lewisburg, Tennessee, right, the barbecue restaurants out of ashack, right?
It's the equivalent of a
of a quarter wide.
I mean, it's nothing.
They can't cater for 800 people, three shifts.
They don't have the equipment.
They don't have the people.
(12:37):
We roll in from Nashville.
It's an hour and a half drive for us.
They're happy to get a good product that can handle coming at 3 a.m.
and feeding 20 people.
So we made a good bit of money by going to these smaller towns, finding the big employersand whether it was safety luncheons, holiday meals.
(12:59):
grand openings, picnics, whatever it is, it was a good chunk of change.
How did you go about building your business?
You know, for us, we're looking for ranchers.
We're looking for those good solid ranch communities that we have kind of a role.
We don't want to work anywhere that we're not local.
(13:20):
You know, so we work in a lot of these rural ranching communities.
And so are you specifically barbecuing for the ranches or just people in those communitiesbecause they're good blue collar, one good food?
Both.
We try to work with people that have our same values and way of thinking.
(13:45):
And that way we get along with them, have a conversation.
It just develops into relationships that way.
way.
Yeah, there's, I forgot who came up with it is, you you want to do business with peopleyou know, like and trust people who are like you, you know, and ultimately my best clients
have always been the ones I get along with on a personal level.
(14:06):
I go have a beer with, have for work, you know, and then the people I don't get alongwith, they probably don't stay for whatever reason, or they're just not fun to work with.
Yeah, exactly.
did you do any outbound marketing to grow your catering business or was it all referralword of mouth?
(14:29):
It became referral word of mouth as we've expanded out.
We're now having to push some outbound, but still we're taking, I would say probably 70 %of what we take in as word of mouth and direct referral.
So the outbound, talk about that.
What's that look like for somebody listening who wants to get bigger events, right?
(14:52):
Because you specialize in that.
I'm sure you're not doing, your money's not made on a drop off catering for 20 people inan office.
Your money's made off a 200 person event, 500 person event, big wedding, whatever, right?
What's that outbound look like for you?
So we do the social media as we're big on all platforms on social media.
(15:15):
We've broken down to what age group and what type of client we're looking for using whichsocial media platform.
And we do some Google ads.
We do a lot of Facebook ads.
Try to stay off free Facebook marketplace ads because I don't like the type of customerthat generates sometimes.
(15:40):
So you're actually buying ads on those platforms?
Yeah, we're building and promoting ads there.
We do some radio locally.
So the Facebook, Instagram ads, what's the angle?
What are you promoting?
Who are you targeting with that?
We go to, it depends on what we're targeting.
(16:01):
So if we're targeting for in our restaurant for the winter, we're doing a 25 mile radius,targeting people between 40 and 70 years old.
If we're looking for weddings, we're after a 24 to 50 age group.
And then we're
(16:21):
that been pretty successful for you?
I would say so-so.
I don't think it's money not well spent, but I don't know if it's money well spent, ifthat makes sense.
sense.
Right, right.
But one job leads to another.
And do you have a price range, like an average price per person, your catering runs?
(16:48):
That, not really.
Just because.
the winter in western Nebraska there's not anything to do, so we'll cater for five peopleto 500.
You take what you can get.
get.
But let's say in season, is there a sweet spot that price range?
(17:13):
Probably, I'm not sure I know the exact number on that.
My wife handles a ton of that.
of that.
Smart man, let the wife handle the money.
just.
Well, I understand I have to do what I'm good at, and she has to do what she's good at.
Otherwise, this won't work.
Yeah, I think that applies to marriages, businesses.
(17:36):
I know exactly my lane to stay in where I do well.
And I know.
what not to do.
And you know, I learned this a long time ago.
My father tried to get me to cut the yard once and I cut it crooked.
And after a couple of lines, he goes, get out of my way.
I'll do it.
And I never had to do it again.
So I think sometimes even if you know how to do it, you play stupid and let the people whoknow what they're doing do a good job at it so you can focus on what you do best.
(18:02):
It's a it's a very good lesson learned for everybody.
You can't try to do everything.
Nothing gets done well.
Surround yourself with great people and let them know.
a college electrical program for 10 years training 20 to 25 year olds and I was told, youwant to be successful, surround yourself with successful people.
that's that's for sure I've been very very fortunate that I've recruited and retained somegood people have a lot of heart and you you can't put a price tag on that I want to go
(18:34):
back on the certified beef
How often do you quote a price and someone says, hey, I can get it here for $2 less or $3less.
And are you explaining why your briskets better?
Do you let them sample it and encourage them to sample the other person's product?
How are you dealing with that?
So I don't play the price game.
(18:56):
I work with my distributors.
Once a year, we tell them, here's the amounts we're going to do.
You bring to us a price.
And the price may fluctuate, especially on beef right now.
It's going up and down.
we're able to leverage our price, get a price set for the most part in the beginning.
(19:18):
And then for people that want to haggle price with us,
us,
you our answer is you pay for what you get.
get.
Yeah.
You know what I used to do is when I came to Nashville there wasn't a lot of barbecue andI don't think it was as good as ours.
(19:39):
Of course I'm going to say that because it's my barbecue but objectively and I would tellpeople hey come in for a sample and try it.
You know if your product's really good that definitely is a good way to neutralize that.
is with the quality.
uh Try it and see, is it the same quality?
And some people don't care about quality, right?
(20:00):
They're on a budget.
But they're not our customers.
I don't want to be the cheapest price.
Someone's always going to beat you.
But if you've got the best quality.
Especially out of our trailers, are always brisket.
So many people cook brisket.
And once the Traeger came out, there was a lot of really good barbecued.
(20:22):
that were self proclaimed.
And so we just tell them, my kids tell them when we're running the trailers, you want asample, a You don't like it, you're not hurting our feelings, but we're gonna take our
chances that you're gonna be pretty impressed.
impressed.
Yeah, I think good food sells a lot.
The other thing.
uh
(20:44):
A tactic that I use, there was a company out of Chicago, I think they got their ribs outof Iowa probably.
I don't know if you've ever heard of Zoll Foods, used to be Castle and Zoll ribs, porkribs.
So what they would do is they would take the rib commodity and they would trim them down.
for chains based on their specs right so Corky's had a two and a quarter St.
(21:06):
Louis cut that's what we bought we bought truckloads we locked in our prices whatever sowe took a tour of the factory and you you've got this
conveyor belt and all the ribs go where they need to go and you've got these people withknives and hooks and they you know they're they can do this stuff in this their sleep
right I mean it's crazy they haven't lost arms and bleeding all over the place and whenwhen I asked the guy I go hey these are really good ribs because there's none none of the
(21:36):
knuckle there's none of the you know the gristle on it what percentage of the ribs thatcome through there meet our specs
He goes, maybe 2%.
So I use that as a marketing tool to say, look, only 2 % of the ribs that are produced inthe country are good enough to meet our specs.
(21:57):
Doesn't mean that another 2 % isn't equally good.
It just means we only picked the two.
And I would bet that there's a number.
that you can attribute to what percentage of the brisket that sold in the United States iscertified Nebraska good quality, know, beef.
And you can say, hey,
(22:18):
Only 2 % of the briskets in this country are good enough to meet our specs.
If you want to save money, go get somebody who brings something in from Mexico.
You don't know how the animal's been fed.
You don't know what they used antibiotics, what they've used to keep that animal alivejust to get it to the kill house, the slaughter house.
(22:39):
There's one more.
Strategy, know in your sales arsenal because I like to have a lot of little levers Well,and we we do use that for our benefit, you know, we we flat out tell people we cook them
brass to be We cook certified Nebraska coming out of greater Omaha and don't care.
(23:04):
We're not by greater Omaha had a conversation with anybody from greater, Omaha
That's the product we use because I know the people that are raising this.
I know the time, effort, work, and energy they put into raising this.
raising this and it you know and when we're especially up in South Dakota we tell peoplewhat
(23:25):
we're serving you American beef that's coming out of these sandhills, which are the samesandhills you have.
You know, this is a good quality product.
And then we let those guys tell us if it's good or not.
or not.
Yeah, I think more and more people do want better quality.
There are enough people that will pay for good quality.
(23:50):
And those are the best customers to have because they're not beating you up on pricebecause like, let's take something like, I like to cook, right?
Parmesan cheese.
Well, you could buy a million different Parmesan cheeses from that shit in a green canthat your mom put on the table, you know, spaghetti night, all the way to the wheel that
comes from Italy and it's a gazillion dollars a pound.
(24:11):
Well, I might use cheap Parmesan if it's just, you know, feeding kids.
spaghetti, but if I'm cooking Italian or if I'm making fettuccine Alfredo, I'm going to gobuy the expensive stuff because I know that's the difference between crappy tasting
fettuccine Alfredo are really good.
And I think people are more sophisticated in their palates now than they ever have been.
(24:37):
I think going back to the beef side on that exact same thing, I don't know if you're aprime rib eater or not, but I'll bet you you would be shocked.
many prime ribs you've eaten that aren't from a prime grain animal.
It's called prime rib, but it's not prime rib.
It's probably most of it's...
(24:57):
If it's at a cheap buffet or a cheap dinner, it's probably choice or no roll.
It's probably no roll.
Yeah, it's, you know, this winter we cooked for Christmas.
We did a couple hundred pounds of prime ribs and our distributors...
(25:17):
he understands you bring me prime quality meat.
I'm not going to sell you something that's not good quality.
Right.
And I think it's important to educate the prospect of what they're getting because
All they see is it's a prime rib that's getting carved and it's pink on the inside.
(25:39):
But if you tell them there's different levels, just like a hamburger.
You buy a hamburger at McDonald's, it's not the same as a hamburger at Outback or ahamburger at Morton Steakhouse.
The guy at Morton Steakhouse has taken all the good scraps and he's making the besthamburger meat you could possibly make.
Outback is better than McDonald's and McDonald's is just a cheap patty.
(26:00):
It doesn't mean there's not a market for all of them, but you've got to educate people tothat.
Now, is there anything else you're doing marketing wise?
know, are you, do you do an email marketing to your existing customers?
Do you call to rebook them?
(26:21):
Is there anything else you're doing to proactively increase sales?
So we have a process, you know, let's take a wedding for example.
So you reach out to us, however you reach out, mostly it's direct referral or off ourwebsite.
We bring you in, have a consultation with a tasting.
(26:44):
You set your own menu.
We don't provide you a menu.
After the wedding's done, we have somebody that calls you, reaches out, and...
I was listening to one of your podcasts earlier and you were talking about hunters andfarmers uh as far as um building clients and getting sales and I look at that as my group
(27:10):
is more of killers and
farmers.
One of my good vending friends calls my kid, my, uh
my co-workers killers.
So elaborate on what makes them killers.
(27:34):
without sounding arrogant or making them sound like...
it ain't bragging if it's true.
So go ahead and sound arrogant.
Without sounding arrogant or without making them sound like horrible people.
But if we're sitting up at a bear, my kids absolutely want to drive you into the ground.
and make you beg for mercy while doing it with a smile on their face, shaking hands,getting out of the trailer and helping an old lady take her food or table, and just
(28:04):
building the relationship and the mindset that the relationship and the customer is whatmatters.
but not sit back and wait for it to come to us.
Our folks will go get it.
So where do you?
You know, so it's sort of the difference when you go to restaurant and you've been waitedon by somebody who anticipates everything, takes care of you, goes above and beyond, and
(28:28):
somebody who, you you're having to chase their butt down and they don't even, theyshouldn't be waiting tables because they don't know the first thing about service.
Do you find people with those skills or do you train those skills in people?
I'm a teacher by trade.
So I've been coaching teaching for almost 20 years.
(28:49):
So I love to work with young kids, bring them in.
We show them how to do this.
We give them ownership.
We give them decision making.
And they just gradually roll into the role we want them to.
And then we just get out of their way.
way.
(29:09):
You know, I agree with you.
You can make people.
mean, there's everybody has their boundaries, right?
But I do think if you look at Chick-fil-A, every Chick-fil-A you go into, the kids arepolite.
They're well dressed.
They're they're well groomed.
They're they bend over backwards.
(29:30):
My pleasure.
It's a totally different vibe than if you walk in to any other concept.
Right.
And and if I was a parent, you know, I am a parent, but my
are older and that would be one of the places I would want my kid to work not for themoney but for the values that they're picking up that they're not going to pick up
someplace else right and I would imagine that you probably have some parents who come backyears later and go man thank you so much for giving my kid a job you help them develop
(30:01):
into a great human being you know that those are skills you take with you forever right
Well, and I have a three year policy.
I don't want any of my people to be here longer than three years.
I want them to move on.
else, into a bigger role, especially since they're so young.
I don't want them just to be tied to us.
(30:21):
Go find something, go learn how the world works.
If you want to come back, we'll welcome you with open arms.
you know, we want to help you grow, you grow, and watch you develop.
That's awesome.
Is most of your crew seasonal?
They work through the season and then?
Yeah.
(30:41):
I would say.
Probably 75 % are summer and then the college kids, they come back and help over forChristmas parties for the two weeks when they're out on break and then weekend stuff.
stuff.
So let's talk about a busy week.
(31:04):
How many events would you have in a busy week, whether it's Christmas parties or summerevents?
Paint a picture.
uh Busy week for us peak seasons, three weddings a weekend, four trailer events, probablysix to ten catering events during the week and somewhere between three and eight thousand
(31:26):
pounds of brisket.
That's a lot of cows.
A lot of cows.
That's a lot of cows.
Now I know why you only sleep four to six hours a week.
A day.
Sorry, a day.
Yeah, luckily I'm out of the day to day, but I think my favorite thing about, I'm amorning person, I want to get going early.
(31:48):
And we would have the pork shoulders come off at seven o'clock in the morning.
And my favorite thing to do was take a pair of tongs and just take some of that outsidemeat with the tender inside, put it on a bun, throw a little coleslaw and barbecue sauce
on it and have it for breakfast.
It doesn't get better than that.
No, there's no better piece of meat than a piece of pork shoulder like that.
(32:12):
Yeah, and brisket too.
They're you know, I love good brisket and luckily I'm down at the beach.
There's this place called uh Bag Beach Barbecue.
I'd put their brisket against anything I've had in Texas.
They do a really they have uh big trailers in the parking lot.
It's all it's all hardwood.
It's not you know, there's no Traeger.
(32:32):
There's no Southern Prides, no old hickories.
It's all
done somebody sitting there babysitting that thing and it you can tell and a lot of timesI'll just buy a couple of pounds and cut up in blocks and put in my freezer cryovac it we
made some barbecue nachos last night for dinner because it's like I didn't really want todo anything but to make those god I'm getting starving just thinking about it right now
(32:55):
now do y'all do y'all I'm assuming you
carve or pull on site, you're not pre-pulling or pre-slicing the meat?
Both.
Depends on where we're going.
Depends on how far you're going, how big the event, how many people you gotta feed.
When we're up in Sturgis, we're cooking 24-7 up there because there's just no way foreverything else going on.
(33:22):
Same when we're down in Kansas, but when we're local and doing some of the stuff, we'retransporting.
Everybody talks about the successes.
I've probably learned more through people's failures and mistakes.
Somebody listening, and again,
(33:43):
operator that would love to get to the point where they're doing three weddings and havetrailers and six events during the week and they're just really blowing out the doors.
What are three mistakes you see that you could tell somebody, hey, avoid, here's threethings I could tell you to avoid to help you grow better, have less problems, make more
(34:07):
money, whatever it is.
You know, the first thing is
paying attention to what everybody's doing and not being yourself.
If you're not yourself, you have no chance of succeeding.
The second mistake is telling everybody that you're the best.
If you self-proclaim to be the best and you're not the best and they've eaten somethingbetter, I think you're in deep trouble.
(34:34):
And then the third is not knowing your numbers.
numbers.
not knowing what percentage of throwaway when you cook a 12 to 15 pound brisket, whatpercentage of that you're not even going to get because it's laying in the bottom of your
cooker.
cooker.
Right, for sure.
Did you come from a business family or business background or how did you learn that?
(34:56):
Because I told both of my kids, I said, I'm not going to tell you what to do becauseyou're adults and you're going to go do your own thing and I'm not living your life.
However,
not ask him my opinion, I'd say become a CPA because you never go broke if you know thenumbers, right?
But you could be the best sales guy in the world.
I know a guy who's very good at sales, but he's terrible with the numbers.
(35:21):
It doesn't matter what you sell if you don't know how to keep it and how to manage it.
Where'd you learn the numbers side?
Did you learn it because you got your ass handed to you on a platter after the first?
you know, a couple of months or, you know, or you have a family background in businessand, you know, your dad or grandfather taught you numbers.
No, I've always been, I've always been business minded since I've been little.
(35:44):
I never really understood the numbers until I was probably in my mid 20s and I had anotherbusiness and it was successful, but it wasn't because I didn't know them.
I didn't understand the numbers.
Like it was super big.
but it made no money because I had no and I was just happy I had grown a big business andI didn't know the numbers and it just didn't.
(36:09):
didn't last.
I just had a curiosity, what industry was that?
That was when XM Satellite Radio was a big thing.
Were you installing XM Satellite Radios or?
No, we were the number two sales company in the country.
Really?
(36:30):
That had to be cool.
you selling it through dealership?
Like car All over.
All over.
I learned a lot of lessons from doing that.
You know, it's funny.
You know, I've been in the barbecue space forever and I've interviewed a lot of guys andI've met a lot of guys.
I found that the guys who know how to sell are always the guys that are the mostsuccessful.
(36:51):
Now, you know, whether it's knocking on doors or however,
That is just a common thread that I see over and over again.
And the operators that are scared to sell, if you're scared to sell or you're not apromoter, go hire you one.
Because nothing happens if you don't know how to talk to people, how to sell them, upsellthem, gain their trust, get them to come back.
(37:15):
You know, can make the best barbecue in the world, but if you don't know how to sell it,you're just sitting with a cooler full of product nobody wants.
Well, and that goes back to my kids and why we call them killers is they will up.
You know, they're not going to help you, but they're going to say, look, we want yourfeedback.
(37:37):
We want your return business and we want to make sure that you're happy with us.
with us.
Yeah.
So I'm sure you're familiar with cut code knives.
yeah.
I made my son a deal before we went off to college.
said, you sell cutco knives for a summer.
It'd be the hardest thing you've ever done, but I'll match you dollar for dollar up tothree grand.
(37:59):
And I had to cut him a $3,000 check out of my pocket.
And it's better than what he learned going to Vanderbilt.
He might argue with me, but I promise you, saw him cutco for a summer, he learned so muchmore than he ever did at Vanderbilt.
We actually had a, there's a Cutco knife rep that sits just across from us at one of thebig fairs in South Dakota.
(38:25):
I hate their handles.
I'd some if they had better...
better there.
I got to tell you, their their knives are great.
I've got them and I've loved them.
And, know,
But it's one of those things you can say, have the best knives because they are the best.
I mean, they're just phenomenal.
And if you can sell those things, uh it's amazing.
(38:47):
There's one guy, you'd appreciate this having been in direct sales.
His whole thing is he's the top cut code distributor in the country.
He'll laser engrave on the knives for gifts.
So let's say that you had a big client, right?
(39:07):
plants all over Nebraska, you might want to buy them a set.
Well, now you're going to go buy them a $1,500 set of knives.
And it's got his custom made for Joe Blow and the logo of the company.
Well, every time that guy picks up those knives, he's going to think, Jim got me thoseknives, right?
(39:27):
So it's an evergreen crowd of people who want to give nice gifts to people that aren'tgoing to buy for themselves, and they see that logo.
So very interesting.
Any other tips you want to give people about large events before we wrap this up?
know, large events are just like small events.
It takes the same amount of work to pull a large event off as it does a small event.
(39:52):
You just got to have better staffing and organization.
People that aren't organized in this business, they die.
I would agree with that.
uh Definitely good systems and.
You know, I'll share a couple of stories.
This is probably my favorite.
We did an event for Vanderbilt University, 5,000 people.
(40:13):
They wanted us to make sandwiches.
And I was like, God, how are we going to make all these sandwiches?
You you've got thousands of people, 5,000 people at this event.
So I don't know how I even came up with this.
took, you know, the clamshells you put sandwiches in.
We basically figured out
If you open up the clamshell and you put the bottom on one half and the top on the otherhalf and stack them up.
(40:41):
We bought custom made cardboard boxes.
So like three, four days before we would put, let's say 25 in a box or 30, whatever.
And we use food grade uh trash can liner.
And then we would wrap it.
So it would be airtight and you couldn't dry out.
all our staff had to do is open the box and create an assembly line.
(41:03):
You already have the box, the, know, the butt, the clam shell, the bottom and the top.
And then you're just using a scoop.
a portion scoop and we were able to like it was like a assembly line with it withouthaving all that pre-planning it would have been a nightmare so definitely yeah when when i
(41:25):
taught my boss he used to get irritated with me because every morning we'd come into theshop and i'd have the guys we'd lay out a
And I'd have them prep for the plan, prep for the plan, and then we have a certain amountof time for execution.
And we might have to work some 12 to 18 hour days to get the execution done and on time.
(41:48):
But it always got done because it was systematic.
Yeah, I think that's what I like about software is I'm able to take systems andcomputerize them.
It's like, can you solve a problem so somebody's working less and more efficiently andit's replicable?
Because.
You might be the best barbecu-cater in the world, but there's only so much you can do.
(42:10):
You're gonna do better by everybody else following your systems, and you're the orchestraleader, and you get people following your systems and following it to the letter.
That's how you scale.
I mean, it's almost like McDonald's.
They don't have the best burger, but they run a good business, because everything'ssystematized.
Anyway, it's been a pleasure.
(42:31):
catching up with you.
I appreciate your time and sharing and I hope you have a great rest of afternoon and tryto stay warm out there.
All right.
Thank you.
Thanks.
it.
You've been listening to Barbecue Catering Smarts, where we bring you the best ideas,stories, and strategies from across the barbecue catering industry.
(42:54):
We hope today's episode sparked new insights to help you refine your systems, elevate yourcustomer experience, and grow your catering profits.
For more episodes and insights, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us next time.
.
and streamline their catering operations.
Every episode, we're serving up expert advice, proven systems, and flavorful strategiesstraight from top leaders in the barbecue and catering world.
So fire up the pit.
It's time for another sizzling episode.
(00:38):
Again, I'm Michael Attias, your host of Barbecue Catering Smarts, today's guest is JimLenzon, owner of Jimmy Ells.
Jim has built a reputation for delivering bold, crowd-pleasing barbecue while handling thereal-world demands that come with catering, from large-scale events to high expectations
around consistency, timing, and execution.
As a hands-on operator, Jim understands that great barbecue catering isn't just about thefood, it's about preparation systems and making sure every event runs smoothly from
(01:07):
loadout to last bite.
brings a grounded practical perspective shaped by years in the business and we're excitedto have him on the show today.
But before we get started, let's take a moment to recognize our sponsor, CaterZen CateringSoftware.
They help barbecue restaurants turn their catering chaos into calm.
Discover why barbecue restaurants trust CaterZen to save them time and increase cateringsales.
(01:28):
Go to caterzen.com and sign up for walkthrough of the software.
Now let's dive into this episode of Barbecue Catering Smart.
Welcome, Jim.
How are you doing today?
Good, sir.
How are you?
Great, great.
Before we get going, I'd like love to do an icebreaker question.
Give me a number between 1 and 300.
24.
Oh, OK.
(01:49):
If you suddenly lost two hours every day, a 22 hour day, what would you cut out of yourcurrent schedule to accommodate for the lost time?
Just two hours of sleep.
How many hours of sleep do you get now?
About six, maybe four.
Oh, yeah.
I don't know if I could handle two to four hours.
(02:10):
Maybe you're younger.
You can deal with that.
So before we get in, know, I always like to ask people, how did you get in the business?
Kind of weird, I guess.
I worked for a wind farm years ago when they became...
they first came out here.
(02:32):
And I ended up doing all the weekend cooking.
Every Friday we barbecued.
And so my old boss, he ruined like $500 worth of steaks one time.
And I told him, if you ever touch my grill again, I'll kill you.
And so then I ended up cooking for my entire crew.
and it just morphed into what it morphed into.
(02:54):
When you think about a wind farm, my fiance's from Michigan.
We pass by wind farms all the time.
I didn't know they had uh windmill ranchers that are out there.
I guess, like anything else, they got to take care of the equipment and make sure it's alloperational.
Yep.
And that's what I did.
And then after that, I went to teaching those guys to do it for 10 years.
(03:18):
And they do a good job with it.
So when did you open up your own shop?
We did our first wedding was the very first thing we did.
That was 17, 18 years ago.
One of the buddies I worked with never catered anything and we just 100 % fully winged itand then it just kind of took off.
(03:39):
off.
You look pretty young.
Did you start at 17 or 18 doing this?
No.
little older than you think I am.
You're giving me a lot of credit.
credit.
Maybe it's a ball cap.
I don't know.
Well, good for you.
So do you have a restaurant or you just do catering and concessions?
(03:59):
Four concession trailers.
We run a large catering operation.
And then January through May 1, every Friday, we run a restaurant with only two menuitems.
Brisket and beans?
No.
whatever I want to cook that week.
It can go from, like last week we did burn-ins, ribs, pulled chicken, brisk sausage.
(04:26):
And then this week's uh tri-tip with a smoked chimichurri, fancy potato, just whatever Iwant to cook.
We're in a town of 5,000 people, so this is our fourth year doing it, and everybody's kindof grabbed a hold of it, and they just kind of enjoy it.
it.
So how many hours are you open for on a Friday?
(04:47):
ah We can open three times, I think we're lapsed in about two and a half hours before wesell out.
out.
That's the best problem I have is the sell out.
It's a good one.
So is this out of like a warehouse you have for equipment or is it a restaurant or whereare you serving out of?
No, we've got a full blown venue restaurant setting in our warehouse.
(05:12):
front half of it.
When I got the building, it had a big bar in it.
so we're like, well, let's use this thing.
thing.
So during the season I'm assuming because you're in Nebraska and everyone's freezing theirtails off that's why you open on Fridays there's probably not a lot of weddings and events
in the winter because it's too cold so you're you're using it as sort of keeping busy andand you know having having some fun and making a few bucks.
(05:37):
Yeah, I don't know if there's money made doing it, but it keeps me busy, gives mesomething to do, and it's a challenge.
Fun.
So one of the things we talked about offline was certified beef, certified brisket.
You know, I think the average person, you know, you've heard of Wagyu beef, right, andother brands.
(06:01):
For someone listening that's not familiar with certified beef, explain what it is and whywould I want to use certified beef versus, you know, is a brisket not a brisket is not a
brisket?
So a brisket is a brisket, but a brisket isn't a brisket.
I don't know how many brisket you've cooked, but we cooked thousands of them.
(06:22):
And the thing about briskets is some people like big ones, some people like small ones.
I prefer anywhere between that 12 and 18 pound range.
And so the certified meat, what it does for us, guarantees me that.
It also guarantees me that it's American made.
made.
(06:43):
So are you telling me that there people getting briskets from China or wherever?
Argentina, Australia, Venezuela, Mexico, Canada, those are your major importers.
Ecuador imports some.
So I just want to control my product.
We use Greater Omaha certified Herefords, and those are mostly coming out of WesternNebraska.
(07:06):
Is that a better quality beef than you might get from a Mexico?
What makes it again?
I'm an amateur, right?
I just go to the grocery store.
I buy brisket and you know when I had my barbecue restaurant and out of we were based outof Memphis, but my stores in Nashville, it was 90 % pork ribs, pork shoulder.
(07:27):
So brisket wasn't a
seller for us.
So what's the advantage or the differences of certified Nebraska versus an import?
So about 12, 15 years ago, our distributor accidentally sent us the Greater OmahaHerb-Berg Beef.
(07:47):
And I cooked it, and I could tell there was a richer, flavor for it.
And so I was like, OK, there's something to this.
And then I switched.
And then as I started doing research, I was like, wait a minute.
This is coming out from ranchers and people I know.
This is a better product.
And you can tell the difference.
(08:08):
difference.
it has a much richer flavor.
Yeah, I think the same thing with steaks, right?
Once upon a time, Outback had a decent steak.
But now if you eat an Outback steak versus a Ruth's Chris or Morton's, side by side, youcan tell there's a big difference, right?
(08:29):
How are you using that as a marketing advantage in what you sell?
Because I would imagine you have some competition.
Yeah, there's quite a bit of competition with what I do and where we travel.
for me, we're not looking.
Our trailer business and our summer catering business is the majority of our business.
(08:51):
And when we're doing our catering business, we want return customers.
We're not just looking to make a dollar.
same with our trailer business.
We're running four trailers.
and the mentality in that business is get your money, move on, we'll take your money nextyear, so on.
(09:12):
I want to grow that into my vending customers and to catering customers and peopleremember our business.
business.
So when you talk about trailers, are you doing state fairs and crafts fairs and big eventswhere you roll up and you're selling to individuals?
(09:34):
that?
Yes.
But you're not going to a office parking lot and setting it up on a Wednesday, are you?
It depends on the weather.
We do a little bit.
We've established some of these smaller towns that want us to come and do that.
But you're not making a lot of money by doing that.
(09:56):
You're just staying busy and just keeping your name out
out there.
So if you go out to State Fair or a big event, what would a big event, how many trailersare you pulling out?
what's a range of what you can sell at an event?
Range, are you, dollar-wise?
Yeah, dollar-wise.
Yeah, dollar-wise.
(10:19):
anywhere from probably I would say three to fifteen thousand a day is a good dollaramount.
amount.
Is that from one trailer?
Yes.
And you you mentioned something that thinks really important.
A lot of people think the the the one of my marketing mentors say a lot of people thinkthe purpose of a of a customer is to make a sale.
(10:45):
but he says the purpose of a sale is to make a customer.
And you talked about, we want those trailer clients to become catering clients, right?
Because you never know that person who loves your sandwich or ribs or whatever it is, theycould have a wedding for 250 on their, you know, at their church for their kid or be
involved in a groundbreaking or be plant manager for a big, how far out will you drive tocater?
(11:12):
We did.
a wedding in six different states this year.
this year.
Oh Oh Separate weddings in six states.
Yeah, so you'll drive two three hours for a big event We're in Western Nebraska just to goto the next town is 20 to 30 minutes so we have to drive regardless and you're rolling up
(11:35):
cooking on site and Yes, and no it depends on what the menu is yeah
Wow.
And what's the biggest event you've ever done?
We did the Sturgis motorcycle rally, which is a big one.
We've hosted some corporate parties for about 1,300 people.
(11:55):
So it was about 1,300, 2,000, your biggest?
Yeah, around there.
So the people listening, know, one of the things I did when I had my barbecue restaurantis I drew a map two hours, draw a circle two hours around Nashville.
And I said, hey, what major employers are there out in the country, right?
(12:16):
In Nashville, there's a lot of competition.
But when you go to um Lewisburg, Tennessee, right, the barbecue restaurants out of ashack, right?
It's the equivalent of a
of a quarter wide.
I mean, it's nothing.
They can't cater for 800 people, three shifts.
They don't have the equipment.
They don't have the people.
(12:37):
We roll in from Nashville.
It's an hour and a half drive for us.
They're happy to get a good product that can handle coming at 3 a.m.
and feeding 20 people.
So we made a good bit of money by going to these smaller towns, finding the big employersand whether it was safety luncheons, holiday meals.
(12:59):
grand openings, picnics, whatever it is, it was a good chunk of change.
How did you go about building your business?
You know, for us, we're looking for ranchers.
We're looking for those good solid ranch communities that we have kind of a role.
We don't want to work anywhere that we're not local.
(13:20):
You know, so we work in a lot of these rural ranching communities.
And so are you specifically barbecuing for the ranches or just people in those communitiesbecause they're good blue collar, one good food?
Both.
We try to work with people that have our same values and way of thinking.
(13:45):
And that way we get along with them, have a conversation.
It just develops into relationships that way.
way.
Yeah, there's, I forgot who came up with it is, you you want to do business with peopleyou know, like and trust people who are like you, you know, and ultimately my best clients
have always been the ones I get along with on a personal level.
(14:06):
I go have a beer with, have for work, you know, and then the people I don't get alongwith, they probably don't stay for whatever reason, or they're just not fun to work with.
Yeah, exactly.
did you do any outbound marketing to grow your catering business or was it all referralword of mouth?
(14:29):
It became referral word of mouth as we've expanded out.
We're now having to push some outbound, but still we're taking, I would say probably 70 %of what we take in as word of mouth and direct referral.
So the outbound, talk about that.
What's that look like for somebody listening who wants to get bigger events, right?
(14:52):
Because you specialize in that.
I'm sure you're not doing, your money's not made on a drop off catering for 20 people inan office.
Your money's made off a 200 person event, 500 person event, big wedding, whatever, right?
What's that outbound look like for you?
So we do the social media as we're big on all platforms on social media.
(15:15):
We've broken down to what age group and what type of client we're looking for using whichsocial media platform.
And we do some Google ads.
We do a lot of Facebook ads.
Try to stay off free Facebook marketplace ads because I don't like the type of customerthat generates sometimes.
(15:40):
So you're actually buying ads on those platforms?
Yeah, we're building and promoting ads there.
We do some radio locally.
So the Facebook, Instagram ads, what's the angle?
What are you promoting?
Who are you targeting with that?
We go to, it depends on what we're targeting.
(16:01):
So if we're targeting for in our restaurant for the winter, we're doing a 25 mile radius,targeting people between 40 and 70 years old.
If we're looking for weddings, we're after a 24 to 50 age group.
And then we're
(16:21):
that been pretty successful for you?
I would say so-so.
I don't think it's money not well spent, but I don't know if it's money well spent, ifthat makes sense.
sense.
Right, right.
But one job leads to another.
And do you have a price range, like an average price per person, your catering runs?
(16:48):
That, not really.
Just because.
the winter in western Nebraska there's not anything to do, so we'll cater for five peopleto 500.
You take what you can get.
get.
But let's say in season, is there a sweet spot that price range?
(17:13):
Probably, I'm not sure I know the exact number on that.
My wife handles a ton of that.
of that.
Smart man, let the wife handle the money.
just.
Well, I understand I have to do what I'm good at, and she has to do what she's good at.
Otherwise, this won't work.
Yeah, I think that applies to marriages, businesses.
(17:36):
I know exactly my lane to stay in where I do well.
And I know.
what not to do.
And you know, I learned this a long time ago.
My father tried to get me to cut the yard once and I cut it crooked.
And after a couple of lines, he goes, get out of my way.
I'll do it.
And I never had to do it again.
So I think sometimes even if you know how to do it, you play stupid and let the people whoknow what they're doing do a good job at it so you can focus on what you do best.
(18:02):
It's a it's a very good lesson learned for everybody.
You can't try to do everything.
Nothing gets done well.
Surround yourself with great people and let them know.
a college electrical program for 10 years training 20 to 25 year olds and I was told, youwant to be successful, surround yourself with successful people.
that's that's for sure I've been very very fortunate that I've recruited and retained somegood people have a lot of heart and you you can't put a price tag on that I want to go
(18:34):
back on the certified beef
How often do you quote a price and someone says, hey, I can get it here for $2 less or $3less.
And are you explaining why your briskets better?
Do you let them sample it and encourage them to sample the other person's product?
How are you dealing with that?
So I don't play the price game.
(18:56):
I work with my distributors.
Once a year, we tell them, here's the amounts we're going to do.
You bring to us a price.
And the price may fluctuate, especially on beef right now.
It's going up and down.
we're able to leverage our price, get a price set for the most part in the beginning.
(19:18):
And then for people that want to haggle price with us,
us,
you our answer is you pay for what you get.
get.
Yeah.
You know what I used to do is when I came to Nashville there wasn't a lot of barbecue andI don't think it was as good as ours.
(19:39):
Of course I'm going to say that because it's my barbecue but objectively and I would tellpeople hey come in for a sample and try it.
You know if your product's really good that definitely is a good way to neutralize that.
is with the quality.
uh Try it and see, is it the same quality?
And some people don't care about quality, right?
(20:00):
They're on a budget.
But they're not our customers.
I don't want to be the cheapest price.
Someone's always going to beat you.
But if you've got the best quality.
Especially out of our trailers, are always brisket.
So many people cook brisket.
And once the Traeger came out, there was a lot of really good barbecued.
(20:22):
that were self proclaimed.
And so we just tell them, my kids tell them when we're running the trailers, you want asample, a You don't like it, you're not hurting our feelings, but we're gonna take our
chances that you're gonna be pretty impressed.
impressed.
Yeah, I think good food sells a lot.
The other thing.
uh
(20:44):
A tactic that I use, there was a company out of Chicago, I think they got their ribs outof Iowa probably.
I don't know if you've ever heard of Zoll Foods, used to be Castle and Zoll ribs, porkribs.
So what they would do is they would take the rib commodity and they would trim them down.
for chains based on their specs right so Corky's had a two and a quarter St.
(21:06):
Louis cut that's what we bought we bought truckloads we locked in our prices whatever sowe took a tour of the factory and you you've got this
conveyor belt and all the ribs go where they need to go and you've got these people withknives and hooks and they you know they're they can do this stuff in this their sleep
right I mean it's crazy they haven't lost arms and bleeding all over the place and whenwhen I asked the guy I go hey these are really good ribs because there's none none of the
(21:36):
knuckle there's none of the you know the gristle on it what percentage of the ribs thatcome through there meet our specs
He goes, maybe 2%.
So I use that as a marketing tool to say, look, only 2 % of the ribs that are produced inthe country are good enough to meet our specs.
(21:57):
Doesn't mean that another 2 % isn't equally good.
It just means we only picked the two.
And I would bet that there's a number.
that you can attribute to what percentage of the brisket that sold in the United States iscertified Nebraska good quality, know, beef.
And you can say, hey,
(22:18):
Only 2 % of the briskets in this country are good enough to meet our specs.
If you want to save money, go get somebody who brings something in from Mexico.
You don't know how the animal's been fed.
You don't know what they used antibiotics, what they've used to keep that animal alivejust to get it to the kill house, the slaughter house.
(22:39):
There's one more.
Strategy, know in your sales arsenal because I like to have a lot of little levers Well,and we we do use that for our benefit, you know, we we flat out tell people we cook them
brass to be We cook certified Nebraska coming out of greater Omaha and don't care.
(23:04):
We're not by greater Omaha had a conversation with anybody from greater, Omaha
That's the product we use because I know the people that are raising this.
I know the time, effort, work, and energy they put into raising this.
raising this and it you know and when we're especially up in South Dakota we tell peoplewhat
(23:25):
we're serving you American beef that's coming out of these sandhills, which are the samesandhills you have.
You know, this is a good quality product.
And then we let those guys tell us if it's good or not.
or not.
Yeah, I think more and more people do want better quality.
There are enough people that will pay for good quality.
(23:50):
And those are the best customers to have because they're not beating you up on pricebecause like, let's take something like, I like to cook, right?
Parmesan cheese.
Well, you could buy a million different Parmesan cheeses from that shit in a green canthat your mom put on the table, you know, spaghetti night, all the way to the wheel that
comes from Italy and it's a gazillion dollars a pound.
(24:11):
Well, I might use cheap Parmesan if it's just, you know, feeding kids.
spaghetti, but if I'm cooking Italian or if I'm making fettuccine Alfredo, I'm going to gobuy the expensive stuff because I know that's the difference between crappy tasting
fettuccine Alfredo are really good.
And I think people are more sophisticated in their palates now than they ever have been.
(24:37):
I think going back to the beef side on that exact same thing, I don't know if you're aprime rib eater or not, but I'll bet you you would be shocked.
many prime ribs you've eaten that aren't from a prime grain animal.
It's called prime rib, but it's not prime rib.
It's probably most of it's...
(24:57):
If it's at a cheap buffet or a cheap dinner, it's probably choice or no roll.
It's probably no roll.
Yeah, it's, you know, this winter we cooked for Christmas.
We did a couple hundred pounds of prime ribs and our distributors...
(25:17):
he understands you bring me prime quality meat.
I'm not going to sell you something that's not good quality.
Right.
And I think it's important to educate the prospect of what they're getting because
All they see is it's a prime rib that's getting carved and it's pink on the inside.
(25:39):
But if you tell them there's different levels, just like a hamburger.
You buy a hamburger at McDonald's, it's not the same as a hamburger at Outback or ahamburger at Morton Steakhouse.
The guy at Morton Steakhouse has taken all the good scraps and he's making the besthamburger meat you could possibly make.
Outback is better than McDonald's and McDonald's is just a cheap patty.
(26:00):
It doesn't mean there's not a market for all of them, but you've got to educate people tothat.
Now, is there anything else you're doing marketing wise?
know, are you, do you do an email marketing to your existing customers?
Do you call to rebook them?
(26:21):
Is there anything else you're doing to proactively increase sales?
So we have a process, you know, let's take a wedding for example.
So you reach out to us, however you reach out, mostly it's direct referral or off ourwebsite.
We bring you in, have a consultation with a tasting.
(26:44):
You set your own menu.
We don't provide you a menu.
After the wedding's done, we have somebody that calls you, reaches out, and...
I was listening to one of your podcasts earlier and you were talking about hunters andfarmers uh as far as um building clients and getting sales and I look at that as my group
(27:10):
is more of killers and
farmers.
One of my good vending friends calls my kid, my, uh
my co-workers killers.
So elaborate on what makes them killers.
(27:34):
without sounding arrogant or making them sound like...
it ain't bragging if it's true.
So go ahead and sound arrogant.
Without sounding arrogant or without making them sound like horrible people.
But if we're sitting up at a bear, my kids absolutely want to drive you into the ground.
and make you beg for mercy while doing it with a smile on their face, shaking hands,getting out of the trailer and helping an old lady take her food or table, and just
(28:04):
building the relationship and the mindset that the relationship and the customer is whatmatters.
but not sit back and wait for it to come to us.
Our folks will go get it.
So where do you?
You know, so it's sort of the difference when you go to restaurant and you've been waitedon by somebody who anticipates everything, takes care of you, goes above and beyond, and
(28:28):
somebody who, you you're having to chase their butt down and they don't even, theyshouldn't be waiting tables because they don't know the first thing about service.
Do you find people with those skills or do you train those skills in people?
I'm a teacher by trade.
So I've been coaching teaching for almost 20 years.
(28:49):
So I love to work with young kids, bring them in.
We show them how to do this.
We give them ownership.
We give them decision making.
And they just gradually roll into the role we want them to.
And then we just get out of their way.
way.
(29:09):
You know, I agree with you.
You can make people.
mean, there's everybody has their boundaries, right?
But I do think if you look at Chick-fil-A, every Chick-fil-A you go into, the kids arepolite.
They're well dressed.
They're they're well groomed.
They're they bend over backwards.
(29:30):
My pleasure.
It's a totally different vibe than if you walk in to any other concept.
Right.
And and if I was a parent, you know, I am a parent, but my
are older and that would be one of the places I would want my kid to work not for themoney but for the values that they're picking up that they're not going to pick up
someplace else right and I would imagine that you probably have some parents who come backyears later and go man thank you so much for giving my kid a job you help them develop
(30:01):
into a great human being you know that those are skills you take with you forever right
Well, and I have a three year policy.
I don't want any of my people to be here longer than three years.
I want them to move on.
else, into a bigger role, especially since they're so young.
I don't want them just to be tied to us.
(30:21):
Go find something, go learn how the world works.
If you want to come back, we'll welcome you with open arms.
you know, we want to help you grow, you grow, and watch you develop.
That's awesome.
Is most of your crew seasonal?
They work through the season and then?
Yeah.
(30:41):
I would say.
Probably 75 % are summer and then the college kids, they come back and help over forChristmas parties for the two weeks when they're out on break and then weekend stuff.
stuff.
So let's talk about a busy week.
(31:04):
How many events would you have in a busy week, whether it's Christmas parties or summerevents?
Paint a picture.
uh Busy week for us peak seasons, three weddings a weekend, four trailer events, probablysix to ten catering events during the week and somewhere between three and eight thousand
(31:26):
pounds of brisket.
That's a lot of cows.
A lot of cows.
That's a lot of cows.
Now I know why you only sleep four to six hours a week.
A day.
Sorry, a day.
Yeah, luckily I'm out of the day to day, but I think my favorite thing about, I'm amorning person, I want to get going early.
(31:48):
And we would have the pork shoulders come off at seven o'clock in the morning.
And my favorite thing to do was take a pair of tongs and just take some of that outsidemeat with the tender inside, put it on a bun, throw a little coleslaw and barbecue sauce
on it and have it for breakfast.
It doesn't get better than that.
No, there's no better piece of meat than a piece of pork shoulder like that.
(32:12):
Yeah, and brisket too.
They're you know, I love good brisket and luckily I'm down at the beach.
There's this place called uh Bag Beach Barbecue.
I'd put their brisket against anything I've had in Texas.
They do a really they have uh big trailers in the parking lot.
It's all it's all hardwood.
It's not you know, there's no Traeger.
(32:32):
There's no Southern Prides, no old hickories.
It's all
done somebody sitting there babysitting that thing and it you can tell and a lot of timesI'll just buy a couple of pounds and cut up in blocks and put in my freezer cryovac it we
made some barbecue nachos last night for dinner because it's like I didn't really want todo anything but to make those god I'm getting starving just thinking about it right now
(32:55):
now do y'all do y'all I'm assuming you
carve or pull on site, you're not pre-pulling or pre-slicing the meat?
Both.
Depends on where we're going.
Depends on how far you're going, how big the event, how many people you gotta feed.
When we're up in Sturgis, we're cooking 24-7 up there because there's just no way foreverything else going on.
(33:22):
Same when we're down in Kansas, but when we're local and doing some of the stuff, we'retransporting.
Everybody talks about the successes.
I've probably learned more through people's failures and mistakes.
Somebody listening, and again,
(33:43):
operator that would love to get to the point where they're doing three weddings and havetrailers and six events during the week and they're just really blowing out the doors.
What are three mistakes you see that you could tell somebody, hey, avoid, here's threethings I could tell you to avoid to help you grow better, have less problems, make more
(34:07):
money, whatever it is.
You know, the first thing is
paying attention to what everybody's doing and not being yourself.
If you're not yourself, you have no chance of succeeding.
The second mistake is telling everybody that you're the best.
If you self-proclaim to be the best and you're not the best and they've eaten somethingbetter, I think you're in deep trouble.
(34:34):
And then the third is not knowing your numbers.
numbers.
not knowing what percentage of throwaway when you cook a 12 to 15 pound brisket, whatpercentage of that you're not even going to get because it's laying in the bottom of your
cooker.
cooker.
Right, for sure.
Did you come from a business family or business background or how did you learn that?
(34:56):
Because I told both of my kids, I said, I'm not going to tell you what to do becauseyou're adults and you're going to go do your own thing and I'm not living your life.
However,
not ask him my opinion, I'd say become a CPA because you never go broke if you know thenumbers, right?
But you could be the best sales guy in the world.
I know a guy who's very good at sales, but he's terrible with the numbers.
(35:21):
It doesn't matter what you sell if you don't know how to keep it and how to manage it.
Where'd you learn the numbers side?
Did you learn it because you got your ass handed to you on a platter after the first?
you know, a couple of months or, you know, or you have a family background in businessand, you know, your dad or grandfather taught you numbers.
No, I've always been, I've always been business minded since I've been little.
(35:44):
I never really understood the numbers until I was probably in my mid 20s and I had anotherbusiness and it was successful, but it wasn't because I didn't know them.
I didn't understand the numbers.
Like it was super big.
but it made no money because I had no and I was just happy I had grown a big business andI didn't know the numbers and it just didn't.
(36:09):
didn't last.
I just had a curiosity, what industry was that?
That was when XM Satellite Radio was a big thing.
Were you installing XM Satellite Radios or?
No, we were the number two sales company in the country.
Really?
(36:30):
That had to be cool.
you selling it through dealership?
Like car All over.
All over.
I learned a lot of lessons from doing that.
You know, it's funny.
You know, I've been in the barbecue space forever and I've interviewed a lot of guys andI've met a lot of guys.
I found that the guys who know how to sell are always the guys that are the mostsuccessful.
(36:51):
Now, you know, whether it's knocking on doors or however,
That is just a common thread that I see over and over again.
And the operators that are scared to sell, if you're scared to sell or you're not apromoter, go hire you one.
Because nothing happens if you don't know how to talk to people, how to sell them, upsellthem, gain their trust, get them to come back.
(37:15):
You know, can make the best barbecue in the world, but if you don't know how to sell it,you're just sitting with a cooler full of product nobody wants.
Well, and that goes back to my kids and why we call them killers is they will up.
You know, they're not going to help you, but they're going to say, look, we want yourfeedback.
(37:37):
We want your return business and we want to make sure that you're happy with us.
with us.
Yeah.
So I'm sure you're familiar with cut code knives.
yeah.
I made my son a deal before we went off to college.
said, you sell cutco knives for a summer.
It'd be the hardest thing you've ever done, but I'll match you dollar for dollar up tothree grand.
(37:59):
And I had to cut him a $3,000 check out of my pocket.
And it's better than what he learned going to Vanderbilt.
He might argue with me, but I promise you, saw him cutco for a summer, he learned so muchmore than he ever did at Vanderbilt.
We actually had a, there's a Cutco knife rep that sits just across from us at one of thebig fairs in South Dakota.
(38:25):
I hate their handles.
I'd some if they had better...
better there.
I got to tell you, their their knives are great.
I've got them and I've loved them.
And, know,
But it's one of those things you can say, have the best knives because they are the best.
I mean, they're just phenomenal.
And if you can sell those things, uh it's amazing.
(38:47):
There's one guy, you'd appreciate this having been in direct sales.
His whole thing is he's the top cut code distributor in the country.
He'll laser engrave on the knives for gifts.
So let's say that you had a big client, right?
(39:07):
plants all over Nebraska, you might want to buy them a set.
Well, now you're going to go buy them a $1,500 set of knives.
And it's got his custom made for Joe Blow and the logo of the company.
Well, every time that guy picks up those knives, he's going to think, Jim got me thoseknives, right?
(39:27):
So it's an evergreen crowd of people who want to give nice gifts to people that aren'tgoing to buy for themselves, and they see that logo.
So very interesting.
Any other tips you want to give people about large events before we wrap this up?
know, large events are just like small events.
It takes the same amount of work to pull a large event off as it does a small event.
(39:52):
You just got to have better staffing and organization.
People that aren't organized in this business, they die.
I would agree with that.
uh Definitely good systems and.
You know, I'll share a couple of stories.
This is probably my favorite.
We did an event for Vanderbilt University, 5,000 people.
(40:13):
They wanted us to make sandwiches.
And I was like, God, how are we going to make all these sandwiches?
You you've got thousands of people, 5,000 people at this event.
So I don't know how I even came up with this.
took, you know, the clamshells you put sandwiches in.
We basically figured out
If you open up the clamshell and you put the bottom on one half and the top on the otherhalf and stack them up.
(40:41):
We bought custom made cardboard boxes.
So like three, four days before we would put, let's say 25 in a box or 30, whatever.
And we use food grade uh trash can liner.
And then we would wrap it.
So it would be airtight and you couldn't dry out.
all our staff had to do is open the box and create an assembly line.
(41:03):
You already have the box, the, know, the butt, the clam shell, the bottom and the top.
And then you're just using a scoop.
a portion scoop and we were able to like it was like a assembly line with it withouthaving all that pre-planning it would have been a nightmare so definitely yeah when when i
(41:25):
taught my boss he used to get irritated with me because every morning we'd come into theshop and i'd have the guys we'd lay out a
And I'd have them prep for the plan, prep for the plan, and then we have a certain amountof time for execution.
And we might have to work some 12 to 18 hour days to get the execution done and on time.
(41:48):
But it always got done because it was systematic.
Yeah, I think that's what I like about software is I'm able to take systems andcomputerize them.
It's like, can you solve a problem so somebody's working less and more efficiently andit's replicable?
Because.
You might be the best barbecu-cater in the world, but there's only so much you can do.
(42:10):
You're gonna do better by everybody else following your systems, and you're the orchestraleader, and you get people following your systems and following it to the letter.
That's how you scale.
I mean, it's almost like McDonald's.
They don't have the best burger, but they run a good business, because everything'ssystematized.
Anyway, it's been a pleasure.
(42:31):
catching up with you.
I appreciate your time and sharing and I hope you have a great rest of afternoon and tryto stay warm out there.
All right.
Thank you.
Thanks.
it.
You've been listening to Barbecue Catering Smarts, where we bring you the best ideas,stories, and strategies from across the barbecue catering industry.
(42:54):
We hope today's episode sparked new insights to help you refine your systems, elevate yourcustomer experience, and grow your catering profits.
For more episodes and insights, be sure to subscribe, share, and join us next time.
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