March 4, 2026 • 45 mins
In this episode of Barbecue Catering Smarts, Michael Attias sits down with Julie Reinhardt, Co-Owner of Smokin' Pete's BBQ in Seattle, to break down how they transformed their operation into a focused, profitable catering business.
After 10 years running both a restaurant and catering, Julie and her husband made a strategic decision: shut down the restaurant and go all-in on catering. The result? Greater control, stronger systems, improved quality of life—and a more sustainable profit center.
Julie shares how they:
✔️ Transitioned from restaurant + catering to 100% catering
✔️ Built systems that "duplicate your brain"
✔️ Plan seasonality like a barbecue farmer
✔️ Prioritize lifetime client value over one-off sales
✔️ Prepare for the unexpected with proactive event systems
✔️ Think long-term about exit strategy and business value
This episode is a masterclass in building a catering operation that runs on structure—not stress—and generates reliable, repeat revenue year after year.
Barbecue Catering Smarts is sponsored by CaterZen Catering Software.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Welcome to Barbecue Catering Smarts, the go-to podcast for barbecue operators looking togrow and streamline their catering operations.
Every episode, we're serving up expert advice, proven systems, and flavorful strategiesstraight from top leaders in the barbecue and catering world.
So fire up the pit.
(00:27):
It's time for another sizzling episode.
Again, I'm Michael Attias, your host of Barbecue Catering Smarts.
And today's guest is Julie Reinhart, co-owner of Smoke and Pete's Barbecue.
For more than 22 years, Julie, alongside her husband and chef Eric, has been in thetrenches building a barbecue catering business that quite literally shows up for every
(00:54):
stage of life.
As Julie puts it, catering is a little survivor, a little chopped, and a little amazingrace every single day.
And she wouldn't have it any other way.
A seasoned operator and author of She's Smoke, a backyard barbecue book,
brings a thoughtful hard earned perspective on building a durable catering business fromworking with your spouse to making smart steady moves that set you up to adapt and grow
(01:16):
over time.
And we're excited to have her on the show today.
But before we get started, let's take a minute to recognize our sponsor, Cater ZenCatering Software.
They help barbecue restaurants turn their catering chaos into calm.
Discover why barbecue restaurants trust Cater Zen to save them time and increase cateringsales.
Go to caterzen.com and sign up for a walkthrough of the software.
(01:36):
Now let's dive into this episode.
of Barbecue Catering Smarts.
Welcome, Julie.
How are you doing today?
Thanks, Michael.
Doing great.
Good.
Thanks for being here today.
Really appreciate it.
Happy to be here.
Good.
um You're based out of New York?
No, Seattle.
Yes.
(01:57):
yeah, there is upstate New York, think, please.
I like Seattle.
I love Seattle.
Okay, so I like to start off with a icebreaker question.
Give me a number between 1 and 300 and let's see what they come up with.
177.
177.
What's your favorite animal and why?
(02:19):
Definitely the brown bear.
spent some time in Alaska in a brown bear preserve.
My husband and worked at a lodge up there.
It was remote and beautiful and just got to know them.
them.
wow how long did y'all do that for?
It was a summer season before we open snow competes.
(02:40):
It's kind of the impetus before we start our own business.
Do y'all do a lot of smoked salmon?
We do, Real salmon too.
up at a lodge in Alaska.
I went on a cruise and they said go walking through the woods, but watch out for thebears.
I'm like, yeah, I don't know that we want to go walking very far.
(03:02):
Yeah, there were no paths that were human paths where we were.
It was flying only, no roads.
Any path was a bare path.
It is.
Yeah.
So how did you end up uh opening up your restaurant?
Well, we're both from catering and restaurants our whole life.
(03:26):
We met at a restaurant.
So tell me about that.
I was a waitress, he was a cook.
Classic combination.
Christmas party, know, yeah, you know, you know, um, but we, we did backstage catering.
(03:48):
a lot.
And I worked for a couple of other companies.
He chef did a lot of different restaurants around Seattle.
And we knew that we needed to open our own business.
just because the only way to kind of build a life in this business is to be an owner.
owner.
(04:09):
Yeah, definitely.
So how did you all start off?
We worked for a big corporation.
Did you start off as caterers and expanded ahead of the restaurant?
Did you start with the restaurant?
Started with the restaurant.
We had that for 10 years in Ballard.
But the catering was growing to a point where we couldn't do both in that space.
(04:29):
We also knew that our lease was not forever there.
We're going to knock that building down and build apartment buildings like everything inSeattle.
And uh at the time we had two young children.
So we really, we looked into expanding.
We looked into opening a second location and we just thought, know, less is more.
(04:53):
Let's just go 100 % catering.
So let's walk through that, because I think we're all predisposed to thinking more ismore, right?
Like, need another location.
And I went through that phase in my business where we opened another vacation.
Twice the overhead and 10 times the problems.
(05:15):
More money, more problems.
Right.
And I think you get to a point where
Not everybody thinks this way, but it's like quality of life.
And I'm definitely, oh I learned a lot about quality of life.
you can't buy more time, you can't buy that quality.
So how did you come to that?
Because, you know, obviously you were very young to come to that conclusion.
(05:37):
it because you had kids?
Was it?
We had kids.
I'll tell you, there was one time we were about to have our daughter's third birthdayparty.
All the guests were on the way.
We get the call, cooks in jail.
And I was like, I can't live my life like this.
know, Eric had to go to the restaurant and I had to run that whole birthday party bymyself and entertain the parents.
(06:04):
And I was like, uh-uh.
Well, you sometimes something happens in your life that's the impetus.
And sometimes, like for me, it's like seeing my parents work hard.
It's like, well, what's the point?
You you see this too often.
I think COVID brought this to the forefront.
You see too many people just one day they're dead and they didn't enjoy the journey.
(06:27):
And I really try to enjoy the journey.
Because at the end of the day, if you made twice as much money, by the time you pay yourtaxes and you deal with all the headaches, are you really having that much double the
happiness, double the enjoyment?
Absolutely not.
Well, and the restaurant would make money seasonally, but then it would drain seasonally.
So it always was a bit of a wash.
(06:48):
Yeah.
So we're like, what's it's good for the catering brand.
And and that's kind of how we were able to launch our catering business.
But it wasn't a
huge moneymaker.
So if you were going to start talk to somebody starting from scratch because there's a lotof people
you know, it's sort of like a spectrum.
(07:09):
On one spectrum, you've got people have multi units and they have a lot of experience andthey've got their growth plan.
And on the other end, you've got that guy or gal who starts off and they cook in theirbackyard for their family and their family's like, this is great.
And then they bring their friends into it.
And then the next thing you know, someone says, hey, could you kid, would you mind catermy kids graduation party?
(07:31):
And then someone says, would you cater this?
And it takes on a life.
So there's this whole spectrum.
If you were to start to
and start from uh backyard to build a catering business, what advice would you givesomebody to build, number one, but also avoid the pitfalls?
What are some tips?
(07:53):
I would guess one of them is don't go out and sign a big lease before you need to, right?
Right, right, for sure.
Just start small, gross, slowly.
Um, don't quit your day job until you really are, you know, we, we, we are also a commonshere at kitchen.
we get a lot of these small operators that use our kitchen.
(08:17):
And I've seen those mistakes where they put all their life savings into a food truckbefore it's really tried and true.
And so.
yeah, slow growth.
Yeah, I tend to be more.
You know, I've turned down outside funding when I started my software company and I'vebeen, you know, offers to buy out, to invest, to grow.
(08:44):
And it's like, I don't want to grow too quickly.
I don't want to deal with partners.
I don't want the headache of you didn't make your numbers this quarter.
You got one more number or we're going to put you out.
You know, our board's going to take over.
I don't need those headaches at any stage of my life.
be your partner.
You know, get a business loan.
(09:05):
had partners in the past.
It's much more manageable if you can keep it small at first.
And I say I'm small, we're a small business, but we've catered for 5,000 people before.
mean, we can do volume.
oh But that took time.
took time.
(09:26):
Let's talk about the early days of marketing versus now 22 years later.
So in the early days of marketing, your catering, what did you do?
Were you hunters or were you more farmers?
Relyed on word mouth, advertising.
What did you do to build your?
Or what advice would you have for someone?
(09:47):
You know, I listened to Linda Bogatch from Central Barbecue, heard from us last week,really loved it.
It was great to hear someone that is in my brain and does what I do.
and, you know, the restaurant, we had the restaurant, we did have that little businesscard place for people to put that.
(10:07):
That's a great way to, uh, to get, to reach out to people.
When we started.
The year that we started was the year that Google went public.
The Google?
So yeah, they've done a little better than we have, uh but it's a little bit.
(10:27):
I didn't have a cell phone.
Yeah, I see you're not taking this podcast interview from inside your private Gulfstream.
Yeah.
m
So it has changed dramatically.
know, and part of, know, like for instance, the reason I love Cater Zen is because it tookmy brain, which, and put it in a database.
(10:49):
And I could never find a catering software that did that, for instance.
I was, every kitchen order of every catering, I did all the formulas in my Excelspreadsheet.
So using text,
to your advantage.
is one thing that we can do without relying completely on tech.
(11:11):
It's still about relationships, face to face.
um
like a bigger smoker.
It helps you do what you do well, so you don't have to do it.
You could do it at scale when you have that tech to help you out.
But it's not a replacement for the human touch and the relationships and knowing yourcustomer.
(11:36):
And I'd much rather give someone either a discount or have a way of getting them in.
and building that relationship over a long period of time.
I don't care about making that quick sale or making the most from that sale because I wantthat person as a 10-year client.
Yeah, it's all about the lifetime value.
(11:58):
in a perfect world,
You know, I look at Jillian who works for us.
One of the reasons I put her in the position she's in, she's warm, she's fuzzy, sherelates to people.
you know, she looks at the relationships with our clients as they're her friends, right?
(12:20):
They share what's going on.
She'll tell me, oh, so and so is a cross stitcher too.
And we shared this and that.
that's ultimately life is tough enough when you wake up and you have to deal with somebodyfor work or
for life, you would enjoy who you're working with, Vendor, employee, coworker.
And I think that makes a difference when you have those relationships, because that wayyou also know if you do screw up, your friend's going to say, hey, Julie, just to let you
(12:50):
know, you ran out of beans.
let me make it right, whatever.
They're not going to.
Exactly.
You know, if it becomes a habit, then they're not going to be a customer.
But, you know, and you're going to want to take care of them, because, you know, if youdid something to your friend to hurt their
or do something wrong, you're going to want to take care of them because it's arelationship more than anything else.
(13:10):
Yeah, in terms of marketing, we do everything from mini pie drops um to those businessesthat are happy to get them.
The tech world is uh completely shut down.
I mean, you cannot get through the door.
Right.
And I don't want to market to people who don't want me there.
I don't want to.
(13:30):
up if someone doesn't want me to.
Yeah, we do.
Yeah, we make our own pretty pies.
and we'll drop them as little you know with a brochure.
Yeah.
Business cards.
Okay I love pie.
What kind of pies?
Pecan, apple, sweet potato, lime, mixed berry.
Okay so I love key lime.
(13:52):
I think I make the best key lime because I'm at the beach.
And I don't know if all these restaurants got people complaining that they were too tart.
So they made them sweeter.
Because most of the.
No, you gotta have that balance.
It's got to have some pucker to it.
And uh my kids will tell you, make the best and I'm not being biased.
(14:13):
Like it's really good.
Because here it seems like they've they've dumbed it down and it's more like sweetenedcondensed milk.
And it's like I don't need sugar pie.
Right.
But I do love a good
And I tell you what else I love, a good coconut cream pie.
Oh yeah, that's my dad's favorite.
(14:34):
I make it for him once in a while.
don't make it with the restaurant, the catering.
There's a place in Birmingham they're out of business.
I think their pies were 10 pounds.
They made their crust from scratch and it was just filled with that and then like a moundof fresh whipped topping.
my god.
To die for.
(14:55):
So obviously when you're bringing homemade desserts, I mean who doesn't want sweets andyou're gonna at least get a if you call them back you're gonna get their time.
Did you
you do a lot of sampling in the beginning?
Do you do any sampling now?
you just Even of other competitors?
Well, we could go down that rabbit hole.
(15:16):
No, I'm just talking about like, somebody calls you up and says, hey, we want to do anevent for 1,000.
yeah, yeah.
Yeah, we do tastings, especially for wedding clients and bigger corporate clients.
But all those are pretty labor intensive and you you can't reach lots of people.
But we do that in the slow times.
(15:37):
And then we do marketing emails.
We kind of go by industry.
you send out marketing emails like a mass email?
Not even once a month uh
(15:57):
but we do targeted emails.
You know, we do like our construction clients and our, our complexes, like our residencehalls.
So we, we do more targeted.
everybody segmented in the database, which is really smart.
You know, I noticed because before I started the software company, I did a lot of coachingand teaching people how to get into the catering industry and whatnot.
(16:22):
Why do you think the basics like sending out an email is the easiest thing in the world,right?
And now with ChatGBT, even if you're no disrespect, the dumbest person on the face of theplanet, ChatGBT could write you a good, you know, but let's just say you're not a good
writer.
ChatGBT can give you a good email to send out.
(16:42):
Why do you think
don't do the basics like what you're doing.
Like you're not talking about anything whiz bang where you hire some all-star sales repand they're making a hundred phone calls and they're knocking on 10 doors a day.
I mean, you're just talking about just general follow-up marketing, Answering the phoneis, I always tell my staff like, just get back to people as soon as you can.
(17:05):
That wipes out half of the competition right there.
I think people are nervous about writing.
and they don't want to bug people.
And I think a lot of small operators are just overwhelmed.
They're trying to do too much.
So they don't, they don't, uh, aren't able to work on their business.
(17:26):
business because they're always working in the business.
So I saw that quote when I was reading some prep material.
um
Where did you get the quote working on your business instead of in it?
I know where I got it from, but I don't know.
I've heard it.
I don't know.
It's out there.
It comes from Michael Gerber, author of the E-Myth Revisited.
(17:50):
OK.
And that's sort of where.
Thank you for the reference.
Yeah, and I think it fits.
I consider myself lazy, but if I was being politically correct, I'd say I'm efficient.
So I think working on, how long have you been working on your business versus in andexplain what that means at different phases?
(18:11):
It took me a while.
I used to try to do everything and I was more frazzled.
You make some mistakes and you realize you got to have your systems in place.
Also, as I just got older.
know, I need more time to rest.
Um, and I'm better.
a, I'm a better boss if I'm more calm and, and happier and,
(18:38):
when you are able to duplicate your brain, then you can get your staff to be able to dowhat is in your brain.
So you can take a step back and do podcasts and think about goals for the year.
Right.
And even in the beginning, like you don't start off on day one.
I didn't start off on day one saying, oh, I'm going to spend 80 % of my day working on thebusiness.
(19:04):
You start off saying, hey, if I can steal away 30 minutes a day to be proactive, that 30minutes will yield me the results to get an hour, then two hours.
And now I can hire somebody to do the things like, I don't like to do paperwork.
I don't like to do accounting.
I'm very good with numbers.
Like I can analyze them.
(19:24):
And I enjoy analyzing the numbers because I want to be on top of my numbers that's workingon the business.
But if you ask me to reconcile bank statements, take an ice pick and put it in my ear andjust lather, rinse, repeat.
I mean, it's just and so it took me a while to say, why am I having all this stressreconciling my credit card statement every month to get myself reimbursed and all this?
(19:49):
I can pay somebody next to nothing to do it.
And I'm losing that 300.
a month in stress to pay somebody to reconcile this stuff.
You know what mean?
I'll tell you my first business plan, I keep it as a humorous document.
It was hilarious.
It was, I'm going to do the front, Eric's going to do the back, we'll have a dish,part-time dishwasher.
(20:14):
So yeah, um you need a lot more stuff than you think.
You need a really good dishwasher that will show up every day.
That's the most important person of the business.
Um, cause otherwise you're doing dishes.
And you have to just plan for, like we plan for winter loss, know, put it away, suck itaway in summer.
(20:41):
plan for that slow time that you really need.
You need to regroup your business.
You need to recharge your battery.
You need to do things like reaching out to new markets, then working on your systems andorganizing that doesn't bring in income.
directly, but it will eventually.
Right.
(21:01):
You got to plant the seeds to be able to harvest the crops for sure.
Yeah.
I call myself a barbecue farmer.
really?
Yeah, because it's so seasoned.
you are planting those seeds in the winter and you're doing a lot of the corporate andwedding proposals in the winter for the summer and then you're harvesting in the summer.
(21:22):
the sense of a lot of harvest time.
I talked to a guy out of Nebraska yesterday.
So they're busy during the warm weather, right?
And then in the cold weather, they open up their venues.
So their catering kitchen commissary, the front is like a venue and they open up like onFridays.
(21:42):
to the public, right?
And it's just, it's to stay busy, make a few bucks, keep people, you know, the locals havesomething to do.
And I thought that was pretty cool.
I've always said, that would be a fun business to have with a few friends, have just alittle crappy building.
And it's like a clubhouse.
only open up on pop ups.
Yeah.
We only open on Fridays and come get barbecue.
(22:04):
And when we sell out, he said, I asked him something, he goes, no, we sell out within acouple hours, two, three hours.
That's great problem to have.
You're not staying open until 9 o'clock at night.
You're done early.
That's how we got through the pandemic.
We did pop-ups the whole time.
Really?
And we did meal kits and all those little things that you do.
(22:26):
It's funny, I remember a friend of mine in a business group literally in tears aboutCOVID.
This is right before anybody really even knew what it was.
And I'm like, you're overreacting, whatever.
And then like two weeks later, the world shuts down.
And for three days, I literally went into like, I was panicked.
(22:50):
Like, my God, I built this software.
Yeah.
There's no catering if we're all shut down.
And then I said, OK, it's not that bad.
Let's take a step back.
How do we just cut to the bare bones?
Like, what do we need to stay in business?
How do we triage and take care of our customers?
No, we're not going to let you quit.
(23:12):
We'll put you on hiatus for six months, keep using the software.
And what are some pivots we can make with our software, like curbset pickup and some otherthings that we did.
we all- And that's when we signed up.
Oh, really?
Because we finally had time to do this thing that we've been trying to do for years.
(23:34):
And I finally found a software that-
what I wanted it to.
well, we buy as I'm not gonna say we buy as much software as we sell because obviouslywe'd be broke.
But we are big buyers of software because those systems that we used to do withspreadsheets and, you know, checklists and whatever, somebody has built a good piece of
(23:55):
software that's going to save us time.
why do I want to invest in human capital when I can invest in that software?
And now with AI where it's headed, it's just going to get better and better to help youexecute and do the things that really you don't need someone to do.
even- I heard you talk about AI last podcast.
(24:18):
I'm still not on the AI train, but- Well-
It doesn't matter if you're on the train or not, the train will be passing your station.
Now, there is something to be said about grassroots relationships.
So one of the things that, you know, I'm not a futurist, but I have predictions andthey're worth what you're going to pay me for them.
(24:41):
But I definitely think AI is not going to replace human interaction.
Right.
So, for instance, no, it can't.
And until they get a cyborg that you can't tell the difference,
which I don't know that we're going to be around for that or what that's going to be like.
But there could be a day where we don't drive our cars anymore, right?
You see Waymo and you see all this stuff coming and it's like, there's probably a lot ofpeople don't need to be driving.
(25:06):
And so where's the opportunity?
yeah.
My dad just ran into the neighbor's fence yesterday, so I get it.
ah You know, and you think, okay, where's the opportunity?
There's going to be car ranches, right?
Just like there's dude ranches with horses because no one's riding their horse in themiddle
of town.
And then people are going to be more like, I do want to deal with humans and I want thishuman experience.
(25:32):
But there's still going to be a lot of stuff that AI, how places, you talk about thisdishwasher.
If Elon Musk.
delivers a robot that can wash dishes and you pay $50,000 for that robot, that dishwasheris going to have to have a higher and best use.
what?
I like, but the robot's not going to be able to talk about New Orleans like my dishwasherdoes.
(25:56):
And nah, that's something about working with people and talking to people.
I mean, it's also a family.
Well.
Okay, maybe when your dishwasher dies and you have to replace them, get an AI bot.
I just think it's going to be very, we are, we're probably at the point.
that we haven't been since the Industrial Revolution.
(26:17):
Like literally you're going from the agricultural world to things in factories andwhatever.
It's crazy.
mean, we're trying to stay steps ahead with a lot of the things we're doing for ourclients.
Like just even following up on proposals.
Like right now you have to manually follow up on a proposal.
we're automating the process.
(26:38):
It's not going to really be AI, but it's going to be automated with reminders along theway and customers can accept the proposal.
It's not 100 % dependent on you converting that proposal into an order.
Yeah, there's really something satisfying of going, make it an order though.
(26:58):
I all those things like, I like that.
I still write checks.
I enjoy, I enjoy the physical process.
Yeah, but you have your business, right?
But imagine if you and your husband went down the path of, now we have five barbecuerestaurants across Seattle.
(27:21):
You can't take every catering proposal and convert it.
Now you're relying on those people in the store.
hey, Tom's really good at follow-up.
Sue isn't.
This tool is going to help Sue make sure
nothing falls through the cracks, because the cracks that she's dropping is costing us$25,000 a year in events, and Tom's good at that.
(27:42):
So those are the types of things.
Yeah, I can tell when, in the current state that it is, I can tell if I'm getting hit by abot.
And it makes me irked.
Yeah, well.
Just hold on, just wait.
It's coming.
I don't even know what to do about it.
But anyway.
(28:03):
there's still the counter to that is the people who give high touch, high humaninteraction experiences.
they're going to be in demand because you can't replicate that with the AI is just goingto enhance what you do on the back end, but it's not going to take away from that, you
know, your friendly staff that goes out and you know, the way you do things.
(28:25):
So, right.
We, we, we also have a small restaurant, uh, we're minor partners at Alarby, Alarby,kitchen in Seattle.
It's a Mexican restaurant.
and that's what people love.
They love the friendly service.
It's so, every review talks about that.
So I'm like, okay.
(28:49):
I do, I do Friday nights.
do payroll, you know.
know, I do the website.
Do they cater out of that business?
We do.
It's really small.
Like right now we just kind of use Easy Cater.
Well, definitely Mexican and catering work well.
It's like barbecue.
It caters very well.
(29:11):
It's our next growth.
We're growing that slowly.
It's a small kitchen, small restaurant.
But yeah, it's all part of it.
Very cool.
So one thing you said that I thought was really cool is, hold on.
uh
You described catering as part survivor, part shop, part amazing rice.
(29:35):
What do you mean by that?
At any time, there's all these different problems that can happen.
Traffic, there's a convention in town.
You get there and the client said they have paper goods, but they don't.
Someone today called in sick, I had to go jump in, do a delivery in Bellevue before thispodcast.
(29:58):
I thought today was going to be my day off.
So you're always dealing with variables.
We have in our both fans, we have these kits called emergency cater kit.
Got Stirno, tongs, spoons, couple bowls, all the things you can forget.
OK, this is definitely a writer down for everybody.
uh we had a independent courier that did all of our deliveries and setups for us.
(30:26):
And every one of his drivers, because they were all like.
freelancers and we had the same people deliver for us.
They kept the tongs, barbecue sauce, know, silverware cups because you know, gloves.
Exactly, stuff happens and so you don't want to have to drive 30 minutes back to therestaurant and 30 minutes.
(30:48):
So to have that, you know, being proactive, I definitely am big.
If you know me well, you know that I set my life up around what are potential problemsthat can happen and how do I set up systems that...
they don't happen to me and somebody else is dealing with them or I have a way thatthey're solved because I don't want I don't I'm not reactive.
(31:13):
I don't want to be reactive.
I don't work well with reactive.
I'd rather be proactive.
And you know, I have I have backups of backups.
Right.
When you when you come to my house like
I have a backup.
I'm not going to run out of toilet paper.
That would just be a very simple, simplistic.
Yeah, right.
You know, I've got backups and when I need to refill, know, you know, it's like I got asystem because I can't be running around like a chicken with my head cut off.
(31:40):
I just want to enjoy the journey.
I don't need to be stressed out.
Another little thing we do on our packout sheet, we have something called exit strategy.
And that's to-go boxes, foil pans with lids, disposable tongs and spoons.
So at the end of a full service event, you can kind of back out.
(32:02):
put the food in the disposals after you talk to the client.
as all caterers, they like to go back to the barn.
Yeah, then you the other advantage is you tell them hey we're gonna put some food out soit'll take care of whatever and then you have leftovers so if you if you put it as hey
you've got leftovers in there thinking oh I could feed my family great good leave I don'twant you to take all the food with you leave a little.
(32:28):
Now do you leave reheat instructions and handling instructions with those or not?
No, we're not gonna leave masses of food.
we don't have massive food uh leftover.
Sometimes people give you a really wrong head count.
That part is just up to them.
(32:49):
We may put it in the refrigerator, if there's refrigerator on site, and we label things.
So I know one of the things is you've worked with your husband for 22 years.
Actually longer, because we met.
Well, OK.
Business partners with your husband.
partners, yeah.
Yeah.
uh How have you navigated that?
(33:11):
Because I pretty much uh have a hard rule.
don't want to be working with you.
I don't want to be working with my life partner.
You really have to compartmentalize.
know, your work, because other people, couples, they go to work, they come back.
(33:32):
How was your day, honey?
I know how your day was, you know, and I'm, how do you not like, I need a little breakfrom you.
Um, so you have to figure out ways to connect in ways that are not related to thebusiness.
And set aside time, you know, a couple of date nights.
We don't do a ton of them, you know, sometimes also just giving each other space.
(33:58):
And in the business, we have our roles.
Very, you know, I, I can cook with like the next one person, but in our business, he's thechef.
I'm the CEO.
And I think that's really important because now you're second guessing your partner.
(34:18):
They feel like you're micromanaging them or, it's never good enough.
And I think when you divide and conquer, then one plus one can equal three.
you're up each other's rear ends and he's telling you how to put together a proposal andyou're telling him how to season the ribs, it's like nothing's getting done and all you're
(34:39):
doing there is pointing fingers at each other and going in circles.
If you are, you know, as an outsider looking in, if you are going to partner with yourlife partner, find out what are your strengths and stick to that lane and what are their
strengths, stick to that lane.
And is there somebody else you have to bring in to handle other lanes and everybody doeswhat they do best and then you're, you know, everyone will do well along the way.
(35:06):
And know that having other people do
strengthen your relationship in a sense because it takes some of the pressure off it onlybeing the two of you.
of you.
So, know, 22 years is it's over a life sentence in prison.
It's a long time to have a business.
Most businesses don't make it past a year or five years.
(35:29):
Where are you in your life cycle of are you like, hey, we want to sell it in the next fiveto 10 years.
We want to have our kids take over.
Hey, we're having fun.
We want to expand.
don't do anything in the food business.
No, I'm not necessarily, but um we're definitely thinking about retirement and our exitstrategy.
(35:52):
And whether someone will buy your business is always a bit of a crap shoot, but um we'resetting it up so that at some point it would be easy for someone to step in and take over.
over.
And when you say setting it up to sell, what does that mean?
So if somebody's listening and they're thinking, you know what, I've had a good run, I'vemade good money, and I think it's a good business and somebody else could do well coming
(36:18):
in and taking over what I've built, either expanding it or keep running it, what are two,three, four things you would do to set it up to be sellable?
Yeah.
Being organized in your system so that you could just say, here's your database, here yourcustomer base.
This is our season.
This is when you need to talk to this client.
(36:41):
This is when you're going to get a heavy amount of wedding clients calling you.
So kind of always being that uh aware of the calendar, being able to communicate thatcalendar to someone.
um
training them, you making sure that your recipe books and those kinds of things are all upto date and clear.
(37:03):
um Let's see.
Making sure your brand is clean, you know, it's that people know your brand.
If you like, we got our bands wrapped a couple of years ago.
They look great.
We meant to do it before the pandemic.
um
Now they're done.
(37:24):
So that really looks good.
We've got these two bands that match part of a fleet.
Plus our global smoker.
yeah, just making sure all your equipment is working and the space looks beautiful.
Yeah.
I would definitely say have your books buttoned up.
(37:45):
You see a lot of people who try to take the cash out, and then they, but we really didthis, running two sets of books.
And you can't get paid twice on it.
If you're going to screw the government, you're not getting it on the way out.
And it's really, I think it makes it tougher to sell if you're showing on the very frontend you're inauthentic and you're not to be trusted.
(38:10):
Yeah.
You're not making enough with...
I mean, if you're trying to keep two books or try to mess with it, you're just making moreproblems for yourself and you're not really helping yourself.
I always just try to run my business so that if anyone came in, a family member, acommunity member, I would have nothing to hide.
(38:33):
to hide.
That's awesome.
And I do think, you know, whether you use something like Kater's Inn or whatever, havingeverything is systematized and having good sets of books and systems where somebody could
literally come in and say, hey, I can see the database of customers.
Here's the order history.
You can't make up right here.
You can see everything here.
(38:53):
This is what you're buying.
You call four customers and talk to them, you know,
You have a system, and it's the same way we sell.
One of the reasons you want good software is that if Julie decides she's going to leavefor a month, somebody else could literally pick up the software or quote unquote the
systems you set up and run the business.
(39:15):
And it's not relying on one person, it's relying on the systems.
that's why I gravitated towards the E-Myth.
By Michael Gerber, he talks about running your business on systems.
always say, know, personalities, processes versus personalities, because processes equalprofits, personalities equal problems.
(39:41):
And maybe a few friends along the way.
yeah, the system is really important.
And the fact that I can run it from home on a day that I need to run from home, I can bein Thailand.
check something if I really needed to.
I try not to if I'm on a trip, but it's possible.
possible.
y'all travel a lot?
(40:01):
We do not a lot but we travel every year.
Oh nice.
I'm more of a traveler.
Eric isn't as much so sometimes I travel with a friend or the kids.
So where's the cool where's one of your favorite places you visited?
Recently Italy.
Where'd you go in Italy?
(40:22):
We went to Ferentia, Roma and Varecia.
Did you go to Florence?
That's Florence.
Sorry, I speak Italian.
Italian.
Oh, I don't.
I speak French.
love Florence and Tuscany and it's one of my favorite places in Italy.
Beautiful.
And a lot of places I want to see.
(40:44):
you know, it's funny.
People don't realize if you haven't been to Europe, you can eat whatever the heck you wantand you're not going to gain weight.
It's the I lost three pounds.
I've done the same.
You walk a lot.
The food supply is clean.
It's not the crud that it's in our food.
supply and it's like really good caliber stuff and the portions aren't Cheesecake Factoryportions.
(41:08):
You don't need a Cheesecake Factory plate to get full.
You don't need a 2,000 calorie salad.
Where do they put the calories?
Well you know it's funny it you know I started waiting tables, well I didn't start waitingtables there but I waited tables at Corky's in college and they had a barbecue salad which
was a bed of lettuce and then you know like four ounces of
(41:31):
barbecue meat, then a ton of cheese and vegetables, and people would get two big dressingsand a Diet Coke.
And I'm like, you could have gotten an order of ribs that would have been half thecalories.
Because by the time you load up all the dressing and the cheese and everything, you thinkyou're eating healthy.
Those salads are not.
They're not.
(41:52):
Thailand was also an amazing place.
That's on my list.
It's amazing.
I went took the kids there without Eric because it was right when we opened Alibaba and wecouldn't have both of us be gone.
And he was happy to stay home.
It was fun because my kids were teens and our first trip just the three of us.
(42:14):
of us.
Yeah, I've taken my kids to Europe a couple of times and it's nice when your kids areyoung adults.
You know, there's nothing fun about dragging a five year old around.
But when your kids are young adults, you travel with them.
It's just a whole different experience.
not like a parent and child.
It's like, yes, it's a parent and child, but you enjoy them as young adults.
(42:39):
And you get to really interact and have a much better.
And unfortunately, we didn't have the wherewithal to do more than one vacation a year.
And I think the last vacation we took was maybe when I was 11 or 12 as a family before mydad declared bankruptcy and what have you.
um
So definitely make time even if it's a local trip.
(43:01):
I like how you say y'all make date nights.
think date nights and you don't have to spend a lot of money to enjoy your life.
Like my fiance's from Michigan and she lives in a very small village.
800 people.
I can't spend money there if I want to.
Like if I had all the money in the world.
(43:22):
There's not a restaurant that would break the bank.
There's not, I have to drive 30 minutes to Target.
There's not a Lululemon.
There's not a fancy store.
There's not like a super nice restaurant where you can go pop a lot of money and get fancyfood.
And I'm still just as happy buying a cauliflower crust pizza at all these, doctoring it upand eating it at home.
(43:48):
So you don't have to have a lot of money.
It's all just,
It's all the perspective of everything.
We had one trip when we really broke one year and we had this free place to stay, cheaptickets, and we went to Austin in the winter.
It was one of the best trips we took.
The kids were pretty young and we went to the caves and it was, we loved that trip.
(44:12):
and it was very inexpensive.
You don't have to spend a lot of money to enjoy.
mean, I've always said if I was broke, I would just go to Costco every day and get a hotdog and a Coke because they're great hot dogs.
I how your body would do with a Costco hot dog.
I would walk 10,000 steps up and down the aisles.
(44:34):
So I would balance it out.
You know, it's been a pleasure.
uh
shooting the bull with you about barbecue and the business and just stuff in general.
It's always nice when you can enjoy the conversation.
So I appreciate your time today.
I appreciate you being a client and I can't wait for everybody to listen to this.
(45:00):
Thanks
thanks so much, I really appreciate it.
Take care, bye.
Welcome to Barbecue Catering Smarts, the go-to podcast for barbecue operators looking togrow and streamline their catering operations.
Every episode, we're serving up expert advice, proven systems, and flavorful strategiesstraight from top leaders in the barbecue and catering world.
So fire up the pit.
(00:27):
It's time for another sizzling episode.
Again, I'm Michael Attias, your host of Barbecue Catering Smarts.
And today's guest is Julie Reinhart, co-owner of Smoke and Pete's Barbecue.
For more than 22 years, Julie, alongside her husband and chef Eric, has been in thetrenches building a barbecue catering business that quite literally shows up for every
(00:54):
stage of life.
As Julie puts it, catering is a little survivor, a little chopped, and a little amazingrace every single day.
And she wouldn't have it any other way.
A seasoned operator and author of She's Smoke, a backyard barbecue book,
brings a thoughtful hard earned perspective on building a durable catering business fromworking with your spouse to making smart steady moves that set you up to adapt and grow
(01:16):
over time.
And we're excited to have her on the show today.
But before we get started, let's take a minute to recognize our sponsor, Cater ZenCatering Software.
They help barbecue restaurants turn their catering chaos into calm.
Discover why barbecue restaurants trust Cater Zen to save them time and increase cateringsales.
Go to caterzen.com and sign up for a walkthrough of the software.
(01:36):
Now let's dive into this episode.
of Barbecue Catering Smarts.
Welcome, Julie.
How are you doing today?
Thanks, Michael.
Doing great.
Good.
Thanks for being here today.
Really appreciate it.
Happy to be here.
Good.
um You're based out of New York?
No, Seattle.
Yes.
(01:57):
yeah, there is upstate New York, think, please.
I like Seattle.
I love Seattle.
Okay, so I like to start off with a icebreaker question.
Give me a number between 1 and 300 and let's see what they come up with.
177.
177.
What's your favorite animal and why?
(02:19):
Definitely the brown bear.
spent some time in Alaska in a brown bear preserve.
My husband and worked at a lodge up there.
It was remote and beautiful and just got to know them.
them.
wow how long did y'all do that for?
It was a summer season before we open snow competes.
(02:40):
It's kind of the impetus before we start our own business.
Do y'all do a lot of smoked salmon?
We do, Real salmon too.
up at a lodge in Alaska.
I went on a cruise and they said go walking through the woods, but watch out for thebears.
I'm like, yeah, I don't know that we want to go walking very far.
(03:02):
Yeah, there were no paths that were human paths where we were.
It was flying only, no roads.
Any path was a bare path.
It is.
Yeah.
So how did you end up uh opening up your restaurant?
Well, we're both from catering and restaurants our whole life.
(03:26):
We met at a restaurant.
So tell me about that.
I was a waitress, he was a cook.
Classic combination.
Christmas party, know, yeah, you know, you know, um, but we, we did backstage catering.
(03:48):
a lot.
And I worked for a couple of other companies.
He chef did a lot of different restaurants around Seattle.
And we knew that we needed to open our own business.
just because the only way to kind of build a life in this business is to be an owner.
owner.
(04:09):
Yeah, definitely.
So how did you all start off?
We worked for a big corporation.
Did you start off as caterers and expanded ahead of the restaurant?
Did you start with the restaurant?
Started with the restaurant.
We had that for 10 years in Ballard.
But the catering was growing to a point where we couldn't do both in that space.
(04:29):
We also knew that our lease was not forever there.
We're going to knock that building down and build apartment buildings like everything inSeattle.
And uh at the time we had two young children.
So we really, we looked into expanding.
We looked into opening a second location and we just thought, know, less is more.
(04:53):
Let's just go 100 % catering.
So let's walk through that, because I think we're all predisposed to thinking more ismore, right?
Like, need another location.
And I went through that phase in my business where we opened another vacation.
Twice the overhead and 10 times the problems.
(05:15):
More money, more problems.
Right.
And I think you get to a point where
Not everybody thinks this way, but it's like quality of life.
And I'm definitely, oh I learned a lot about quality of life.
you can't buy more time, you can't buy that quality.
So how did you come to that?
Because, you know, obviously you were very young to come to that conclusion.
(05:37):
it because you had kids?
Was it?
We had kids.
I'll tell you, there was one time we were about to have our daughter's third birthdayparty.
All the guests were on the way.
We get the call, cooks in jail.
And I was like, I can't live my life like this.
know, Eric had to go to the restaurant and I had to run that whole birthday party bymyself and entertain the parents.
(06:04):
And I was like, uh-uh.
Well, you sometimes something happens in your life that's the impetus.
And sometimes, like for me, it's like seeing my parents work hard.
It's like, well, what's the point?
You you see this too often.
I think COVID brought this to the forefront.
You see too many people just one day they're dead and they didn't enjoy the journey.
(06:27):
And I really try to enjoy the journey.
Because at the end of the day, if you made twice as much money, by the time you pay yourtaxes and you deal with all the headaches, are you really having that much double the
happiness, double the enjoyment?
Absolutely not.
Well, and the restaurant would make money seasonally, but then it would drain seasonally.
So it always was a bit of a wash.
(06:48):
Yeah.
So we're like, what's it's good for the catering brand.
And and that's kind of how we were able to launch our catering business.
But it wasn't a
huge moneymaker.
So if you were going to start talk to somebody starting from scratch because there's a lotof people
you know, it's sort of like a spectrum.
(07:09):
On one spectrum, you've got people have multi units and they have a lot of experience andthey've got their growth plan.
And on the other end, you've got that guy or gal who starts off and they cook in theirbackyard for their family and their family's like, this is great.
And then they bring their friends into it.
And then the next thing you know, someone says, hey, could you kid, would you mind catermy kids graduation party?
(07:31):
And then someone says, would you cater this?
And it takes on a life.
So there's this whole spectrum.
If you were to start to
and start from uh backyard to build a catering business, what advice would you givesomebody to build, number one, but also avoid the pitfalls?
What are some tips?
(07:53):
I would guess one of them is don't go out and sign a big lease before you need to, right?
Right, right, for sure.
Just start small, gross, slowly.
Um, don't quit your day job until you really are, you know, we, we, we are also a commonshere at kitchen.
we get a lot of these small operators that use our kitchen.
(08:17):
And I've seen those mistakes where they put all their life savings into a food truckbefore it's really tried and true.
And so.
yeah, slow growth.
Yeah, I tend to be more.
You know, I've turned down outside funding when I started my software company and I'vebeen, you know, offers to buy out, to invest, to grow.
(08:44):
And it's like, I don't want to grow too quickly.
I don't want to deal with partners.
I don't want the headache of you didn't make your numbers this quarter.
You got one more number or we're going to put you out.
You know, our board's going to take over.
I don't need those headaches at any stage of my life.
be your partner.
You know, get a business loan.
(09:05):
had partners in the past.
It's much more manageable if you can keep it small at first.
And I say I'm small, we're a small business, but we've catered for 5,000 people before.
mean, we can do volume.
oh But that took time.
took time.
(09:26):
Let's talk about the early days of marketing versus now 22 years later.
So in the early days of marketing, your catering, what did you do?
Were you hunters or were you more farmers?
Relyed on word mouth, advertising.
What did you do to build your?
Or what advice would you have for someone?
(09:47):
You know, I listened to Linda Bogatch from Central Barbecue, heard from us last week,really loved it.
It was great to hear someone that is in my brain and does what I do.
and, you know, the restaurant, we had the restaurant, we did have that little businesscard place for people to put that.
(10:07):
That's a great way to, uh, to get, to reach out to people.
When we started.
The year that we started was the year that Google went public.
The Google?
So yeah, they've done a little better than we have, uh but it's a little bit.
(10:27):
I didn't have a cell phone.
Yeah, I see you're not taking this podcast interview from inside your private Gulfstream.
Yeah.
m
So it has changed dramatically.
know, and part of, know, like for instance, the reason I love Cater Zen is because it tookmy brain, which, and put it in a database.
(10:49):
And I could never find a catering software that did that, for instance.
I was, every kitchen order of every catering, I did all the formulas in my Excelspreadsheet.
So using text,
to your advantage.
is one thing that we can do without relying completely on tech.
(11:11):
It's still about relationships, face to face.
um
like a bigger smoker.
It helps you do what you do well, so you don't have to do it.
You could do it at scale when you have that tech to help you out.
But it's not a replacement for the human touch and the relationships and knowing yourcustomer.
(11:36):
And I'd much rather give someone either a discount or have a way of getting them in.
and building that relationship over a long period of time.
I don't care about making that quick sale or making the most from that sale because I wantthat person as a 10-year client.
Yeah, it's all about the lifetime value.
(11:58):
in a perfect world,
You know, I look at Jillian who works for us.
One of the reasons I put her in the position she's in, she's warm, she's fuzzy, sherelates to people.
you know, she looks at the relationships with our clients as they're her friends, right?
(12:20):
They share what's going on.
She'll tell me, oh, so and so is a cross stitcher too.
And we shared this and that.
that's ultimately life is tough enough when you wake up and you have to deal with somebodyfor work or
for life, you would enjoy who you're working with, Vendor, employee, coworker.
And I think that makes a difference when you have those relationships, because that wayyou also know if you do screw up, your friend's going to say, hey, Julie, just to let you
(12:50):
know, you ran out of beans.
let me make it right, whatever.
They're not going to.
Exactly.
You know, if it becomes a habit, then they're not going to be a customer.
But, you know, and you're going to want to take care of them, because, you know, if youdid something to your friend to hurt their
or do something wrong, you're going to want to take care of them because it's arelationship more than anything else.
(13:10):
Yeah, in terms of marketing, we do everything from mini pie drops um to those businessesthat are happy to get them.
The tech world is uh completely shut down.
I mean, you cannot get through the door.
Right.
And I don't want to market to people who don't want me there.
I don't want to.
(13:30):
up if someone doesn't want me to.
Yeah, we do.
Yeah, we make our own pretty pies.
and we'll drop them as little you know with a brochure.
Yeah.
Business cards.
Okay I love pie.
What kind of pies?
Pecan, apple, sweet potato, lime, mixed berry.
Okay so I love key lime.
(13:52):
I think I make the best key lime because I'm at the beach.
And I don't know if all these restaurants got people complaining that they were too tart.
So they made them sweeter.
Because most of the.
No, you gotta have that balance.
It's got to have some pucker to it.
And uh my kids will tell you, make the best and I'm not being biased.
(14:13):
Like it's really good.
Because here it seems like they've they've dumbed it down and it's more like sweetenedcondensed milk.
And it's like I don't need sugar pie.
Right.
But I do love a good
And I tell you what else I love, a good coconut cream pie.
Oh yeah, that's my dad's favorite.
(14:34):
I make it for him once in a while.
don't make it with the restaurant, the catering.
There's a place in Birmingham they're out of business.
I think their pies were 10 pounds.
They made their crust from scratch and it was just filled with that and then like a moundof fresh whipped topping.
my god.
To die for.
(14:55):
So obviously when you're bringing homemade desserts, I mean who doesn't want sweets andyou're gonna at least get a if you call them back you're gonna get their time.
Did you
you do a lot of sampling in the beginning?
Do you do any sampling now?
you just Even of other competitors?
Well, we could go down that rabbit hole.
(15:16):
No, I'm just talking about like, somebody calls you up and says, hey, we want to do anevent for 1,000.
yeah, yeah.
Yeah, we do tastings, especially for wedding clients and bigger corporate clients.
But all those are pretty labor intensive and you you can't reach lots of people.
But we do that in the slow times.
(15:37):
And then we do marketing emails.
We kind of go by industry.
you send out marketing emails like a mass email?
Not even once a month uh
(15:57):
but we do targeted emails.
You know, we do like our construction clients and our, our complexes, like our residencehalls.
So we, we do more targeted.
everybody segmented in the database, which is really smart.
You know, I noticed because before I started the software company, I did a lot of coachingand teaching people how to get into the catering industry and whatnot.
(16:22):
Why do you think the basics like sending out an email is the easiest thing in the world,right?
And now with ChatGBT, even if you're no disrespect, the dumbest person on the face of theplanet, ChatGBT could write you a good, you know, but let's just say you're not a good
writer.
ChatGBT can give you a good email to send out.
(16:42):
Why do you think
don't do the basics like what you're doing.
Like you're not talking about anything whiz bang where you hire some all-star sales repand they're making a hundred phone calls and they're knocking on 10 doors a day.
I mean, you're just talking about just general follow-up marketing, Answering the phoneis, I always tell my staff like, just get back to people as soon as you can.
(17:05):
That wipes out half of the competition right there.
I think people are nervous about writing.
and they don't want to bug people.
And I think a lot of small operators are just overwhelmed.
They're trying to do too much.
So they don't, they don't, uh, aren't able to work on their business.
(17:26):
business because they're always working in the business.
So I saw that quote when I was reading some prep material.
um
Where did you get the quote working on your business instead of in it?
I know where I got it from, but I don't know.
I've heard it.
I don't know.
It's out there.
It comes from Michael Gerber, author of the E-Myth Revisited.
(17:50):
OK.
And that's sort of where.
Thank you for the reference.
Yeah, and I think it fits.
I consider myself lazy, but if I was being politically correct, I'd say I'm efficient.
So I think working on, how long have you been working on your business versus in andexplain what that means at different phases?
(18:11):
It took me a while.
I used to try to do everything and I was more frazzled.
You make some mistakes and you realize you got to have your systems in place.
Also, as I just got older.
know, I need more time to rest.
Um, and I'm better.
a, I'm a better boss if I'm more calm and, and happier and,
(18:38):
when you are able to duplicate your brain, then you can get your staff to be able to dowhat is in your brain.
So you can take a step back and do podcasts and think about goals for the year.
Right.
And even in the beginning, like you don't start off on day one.
I didn't start off on day one saying, oh, I'm going to spend 80 % of my day working on thebusiness.
(19:04):
You start off saying, hey, if I can steal away 30 minutes a day to be proactive, that 30minutes will yield me the results to get an hour, then two hours.
And now I can hire somebody to do the things like, I don't like to do paperwork.
I don't like to do accounting.
I'm very good with numbers.
Like I can analyze them.
(19:24):
And I enjoy analyzing the numbers because I want to be on top of my numbers that's workingon the business.
But if you ask me to reconcile bank statements, take an ice pick and put it in my ear andjust lather, rinse, repeat.
I mean, it's just and so it took me a while to say, why am I having all this stressreconciling my credit card statement every month to get myself reimbursed and all this?
(19:49):
I can pay somebody next to nothing to do it.
And I'm losing that 300.
a month in stress to pay somebody to reconcile this stuff.
You know what mean?
I'll tell you my first business plan, I keep it as a humorous document.
It was hilarious.
It was, I'm going to do the front, Eric's going to do the back, we'll have a dish,part-time dishwasher.
(20:14):
So yeah, um you need a lot more stuff than you think.
You need a really good dishwasher that will show up every day.
That's the most important person of the business.
Um, cause otherwise you're doing dishes.
And you have to just plan for, like we plan for winter loss, know, put it away, suck itaway in summer.
(20:41):
plan for that slow time that you really need.
You need to regroup your business.
You need to recharge your battery.
You need to do things like reaching out to new markets, then working on your systems andorganizing that doesn't bring in income.
directly, but it will eventually.
Right.
(21:01):
You got to plant the seeds to be able to harvest the crops for sure.
Yeah.
I call myself a barbecue farmer.
really?
Yeah, because it's so seasoned.
you are planting those seeds in the winter and you're doing a lot of the corporate andwedding proposals in the winter for the summer and then you're harvesting in the summer.
(21:22):
the sense of a lot of harvest time.
I talked to a guy out of Nebraska yesterday.
So they're busy during the warm weather, right?
And then in the cold weather, they open up their venues.
So their catering kitchen commissary, the front is like a venue and they open up like onFridays.
(21:42):
to the public, right?
And it's just, it's to stay busy, make a few bucks, keep people, you know, the locals havesomething to do.
And I thought that was pretty cool.
I've always said, that would be a fun business to have with a few friends, have just alittle crappy building.
And it's like a clubhouse.
only open up on pop ups.
Yeah.
We only open on Fridays and come get barbecue.
(22:04):
And when we sell out, he said, I asked him something, he goes, no, we sell out within acouple hours, two, three hours.
That's great problem to have.
You're not staying open until 9 o'clock at night.
You're done early.
That's how we got through the pandemic.
We did pop-ups the whole time.
Really?
And we did meal kits and all those little things that you do.
(22:26):
It's funny, I remember a friend of mine in a business group literally in tears aboutCOVID.
This is right before anybody really even knew what it was.
And I'm like, you're overreacting, whatever.
And then like two weeks later, the world shuts down.
And for three days, I literally went into like, I was panicked.
(22:50):
Like, my God, I built this software.
Yeah.
There's no catering if we're all shut down.
And then I said, OK, it's not that bad.
Let's take a step back.
How do we just cut to the bare bones?
Like, what do we need to stay in business?
How do we triage and take care of our customers?
No, we're not going to let you quit.
(23:12):
We'll put you on hiatus for six months, keep using the software.
And what are some pivots we can make with our software, like curbset pickup and some otherthings that we did.
we all- And that's when we signed up.
Oh, really?
Because we finally had time to do this thing that we've been trying to do for years.
(23:34):
And I finally found a software that-
what I wanted it to.
well, we buy as I'm not gonna say we buy as much software as we sell because obviouslywe'd be broke.
But we are big buyers of software because those systems that we used to do withspreadsheets and, you know, checklists and whatever, somebody has built a good piece of
(23:55):
software that's going to save us time.
why do I want to invest in human capital when I can invest in that software?
And now with AI where it's headed, it's just going to get better and better to help youexecute and do the things that really you don't need someone to do.
even- I heard you talk about AI last podcast.
(24:18):
I'm still not on the AI train, but- Well-
It doesn't matter if you're on the train or not, the train will be passing your station.
Now, there is something to be said about grassroots relationships.
So one of the things that, you know, I'm not a futurist, but I have predictions andthey're worth what you're going to pay me for them.
(24:41):
But I definitely think AI is not going to replace human interaction.
Right.
So, for instance, no, it can't.
And until they get a cyborg that you can't tell the difference,
which I don't know that we're going to be around for that or what that's going to be like.
But there could be a day where we don't drive our cars anymore, right?
You see Waymo and you see all this stuff coming and it's like, there's probably a lot ofpeople don't need to be driving.
(25:06):
And so where's the opportunity?
yeah.
My dad just ran into the neighbor's fence yesterday, so I get it.
ah You know, and you think, okay, where's the opportunity?
There's going to be car ranches, right?
Just like there's dude ranches with horses because no one's riding their horse in themiddle
of town.
And then people are going to be more like, I do want to deal with humans and I want thishuman experience.
(25:32):
But there's still going to be a lot of stuff that AI, how places, you talk about thisdishwasher.
If Elon Musk.
delivers a robot that can wash dishes and you pay $50,000 for that robot, that dishwasheris going to have to have a higher and best use.
what?
I like, but the robot's not going to be able to talk about New Orleans like my dishwasherdoes.
(25:56):
And nah, that's something about working with people and talking to people.
I mean, it's also a family.
Well.
Okay, maybe when your dishwasher dies and you have to replace them, get an AI bot.
I just think it's going to be very, we are, we're probably at the point.
that we haven't been since the Industrial Revolution.
(26:17):
Like literally you're going from the agricultural world to things in factories andwhatever.
It's crazy.
mean, we're trying to stay steps ahead with a lot of the things we're doing for ourclients.
Like just even following up on proposals.
Like right now you have to manually follow up on a proposal.
we're automating the process.
(26:38):
It's not going to really be AI, but it's going to be automated with reminders along theway and customers can accept the proposal.
It's not 100 % dependent on you converting that proposal into an order.
Yeah, there's really something satisfying of going, make it an order though.
(26:58):
I all those things like, I like that.
I still write checks.
I enjoy, I enjoy the physical process.
Yeah, but you have your business, right?
But imagine if you and your husband went down the path of, now we have five barbecuerestaurants across Seattle.
(27:21):
You can't take every catering proposal and convert it.
Now you're relying on those people in the store.
hey, Tom's really good at follow-up.
Sue isn't.
This tool is going to help Sue make sure
nothing falls through the cracks, because the cracks that she's dropping is costing us$25,000 a year in events, and Tom's good at that.
(27:42):
So those are the types of things.
Yeah, I can tell when, in the current state that it is, I can tell if I'm getting hit by abot.
And it makes me irked.
Yeah, well.
Just hold on, just wait.
It's coming.
I don't even know what to do about it.
But anyway.
(28:03):
there's still the counter to that is the people who give high touch, high humaninteraction experiences.
they're going to be in demand because you can't replicate that with the AI is just goingto enhance what you do on the back end, but it's not going to take away from that, you
know, your friendly staff that goes out and you know, the way you do things.
(28:25):
So, right.
We, we, we also have a small restaurant, uh, we're minor partners at Alarby, Alarby,kitchen in Seattle.
It's a Mexican restaurant.
and that's what people love.
They love the friendly service.
It's so, every review talks about that.
So I'm like, okay.
(28:49):
I do, I do Friday nights.
do payroll, you know.
know, I do the website.
Do they cater out of that business?
We do.
It's really small.
Like right now we just kind of use Easy Cater.
Well, definitely Mexican and catering work well.
It's like barbecue.
It caters very well.
(29:11):
It's our next growth.
We're growing that slowly.
It's a small kitchen, small restaurant.
But yeah, it's all part of it.
Very cool.
So one thing you said that I thought was really cool is, hold on.
uh
You described catering as part survivor, part shop, part amazing rice.
(29:35):
What do you mean by that?
At any time, there's all these different problems that can happen.
Traffic, there's a convention in town.
You get there and the client said they have paper goods, but they don't.
Someone today called in sick, I had to go jump in, do a delivery in Bellevue before thispodcast.
(29:58):
I thought today was going to be my day off.
So you're always dealing with variables.
We have in our both fans, we have these kits called emergency cater kit.
Got Stirno, tongs, spoons, couple bowls, all the things you can forget.
OK, this is definitely a writer down for everybody.
uh we had a independent courier that did all of our deliveries and setups for us.
(30:26):
And every one of his drivers, because they were all like.
freelancers and we had the same people deliver for us.
They kept the tongs, barbecue sauce, know, silverware cups because you know, gloves.
Exactly, stuff happens and so you don't want to have to drive 30 minutes back to therestaurant and 30 minutes.
(30:48):
So to have that, you know, being proactive, I definitely am big.
If you know me well, you know that I set my life up around what are potential problemsthat can happen and how do I set up systems that...
they don't happen to me and somebody else is dealing with them or I have a way thatthey're solved because I don't want I don't I'm not reactive.
(31:13):
I don't want to be reactive.
I don't work well with reactive.
I'd rather be proactive.
And you know, I have I have backups of backups.
Right.
When you when you come to my house like
I have a backup.
I'm not going to run out of toilet paper.
That would just be a very simple, simplistic.
Yeah, right.
You know, I've got backups and when I need to refill, know, you know, it's like I got asystem because I can't be running around like a chicken with my head cut off.
(31:40):
I just want to enjoy the journey.
I don't need to be stressed out.
Another little thing we do on our packout sheet, we have something called exit strategy.
And that's to-go boxes, foil pans with lids, disposable tongs and spoons.
So at the end of a full service event, you can kind of back out.
(32:02):
put the food in the disposals after you talk to the client.
as all caterers, they like to go back to the barn.
Yeah, then you the other advantage is you tell them hey we're gonna put some food out soit'll take care of whatever and then you have leftovers so if you if you put it as hey
you've got leftovers in there thinking oh I could feed my family great good leave I don'twant you to take all the food with you leave a little.
(32:28):
Now do you leave reheat instructions and handling instructions with those or not?
No, we're not gonna leave masses of food.
we don't have massive food uh leftover.
Sometimes people give you a really wrong head count.
That part is just up to them.
(32:49):
We may put it in the refrigerator, if there's refrigerator on site, and we label things.
So I know one of the things is you've worked with your husband for 22 years.
Actually longer, because we met.
Well, OK.
Business partners with your husband.
partners, yeah.
Yeah.
uh How have you navigated that?
(33:11):
Because I pretty much uh have a hard rule.
don't want to be working with you.
I don't want to be working with my life partner.
You really have to compartmentalize.
know, your work, because other people, couples, they go to work, they come back.
(33:32):
How was your day, honey?
I know how your day was, you know, and I'm, how do you not like, I need a little breakfrom you.
Um, so you have to figure out ways to connect in ways that are not related to thebusiness.
And set aside time, you know, a couple of date nights.
We don't do a ton of them, you know, sometimes also just giving each other space.
(33:58):
And in the business, we have our roles.
Very, you know, I, I can cook with like the next one person, but in our business, he's thechef.
I'm the CEO.
And I think that's really important because now you're second guessing your partner.
(34:18):
They feel like you're micromanaging them or, it's never good enough.
And I think when you divide and conquer, then one plus one can equal three.
you're up each other's rear ends and he's telling you how to put together a proposal andyou're telling him how to season the ribs, it's like nothing's getting done and all you're
(34:39):
doing there is pointing fingers at each other and going in circles.
If you are, you know, as an outsider looking in, if you are going to partner with yourlife partner, find out what are your strengths and stick to that lane and what are their
strengths, stick to that lane.
And is there somebody else you have to bring in to handle other lanes and everybody doeswhat they do best and then you're, you know, everyone will do well along the way.
(35:06):
And know that having other people do
strengthen your relationship in a sense because it takes some of the pressure off it onlybeing the two of you.
of you.
So, know, 22 years is it's over a life sentence in prison.
It's a long time to have a business.
Most businesses don't make it past a year or five years.
(35:29):
Where are you in your life cycle of are you like, hey, we want to sell it in the next fiveto 10 years.
We want to have our kids take over.
Hey, we're having fun.
We want to expand.
don't do anything in the food business.
No, I'm not necessarily, but um we're definitely thinking about retirement and our exitstrategy.
(35:52):
And whether someone will buy your business is always a bit of a crap shoot, but um we'resetting it up so that at some point it would be easy for someone to step in and take over.
over.
And when you say setting it up to sell, what does that mean?
So if somebody's listening and they're thinking, you know what, I've had a good run, I'vemade good money, and I think it's a good business and somebody else could do well coming
(36:18):
in and taking over what I've built, either expanding it or keep running it, what are two,three, four things you would do to set it up to be sellable?
Yeah.
Being organized in your system so that you could just say, here's your database, here yourcustomer base.
This is our season.
This is when you need to talk to this client.
(36:41):
This is when you're going to get a heavy amount of wedding clients calling you.
So kind of always being that uh aware of the calendar, being able to communicate thatcalendar to someone.
um
training them, you making sure that your recipe books and those kinds of things are all upto date and clear.
(37:03):
um Let's see.
Making sure your brand is clean, you know, it's that people know your brand.
If you like, we got our bands wrapped a couple of years ago.
They look great.
We meant to do it before the pandemic.
um
Now they're done.
(37:24):
So that really looks good.
We've got these two bands that match part of a fleet.
Plus our global smoker.
yeah, just making sure all your equipment is working and the space looks beautiful.
Yeah.
I would definitely say have your books buttoned up.
(37:45):
You see a lot of people who try to take the cash out, and then they, but we really didthis, running two sets of books.
And you can't get paid twice on it.
If you're going to screw the government, you're not getting it on the way out.
And it's really, I think it makes it tougher to sell if you're showing on the very frontend you're inauthentic and you're not to be trusted.
(38:10):
Yeah.
You're not making enough with...
I mean, if you're trying to keep two books or try to mess with it, you're just making moreproblems for yourself and you're not really helping yourself.
I always just try to run my business so that if anyone came in, a family member, acommunity member, I would have nothing to hide.
(38:33):
to hide.
That's awesome.
And I do think, you know, whether you use something like Kater's Inn or whatever, havingeverything is systematized and having good sets of books and systems where somebody could
literally come in and say, hey, I can see the database of customers.
Here's the order history.
You can't make up right here.
You can see everything here.
(38:53):
This is what you're buying.
You call four customers and talk to them, you know,
You have a system, and it's the same way we sell.
One of the reasons you want good software is that if Julie decides she's going to leavefor a month, somebody else could literally pick up the software or quote unquote the
systems you set up and run the business.
(39:15):
And it's not relying on one person, it's relying on the systems.
that's why I gravitated towards the E-Myth.
By Michael Gerber, he talks about running your business on systems.
always say, know, personalities, processes versus personalities, because processes equalprofits, personalities equal problems.
(39:41):
And maybe a few friends along the way.
yeah, the system is really important.
And the fact that I can run it from home on a day that I need to run from home, I can bein Thailand.
check something if I really needed to.
I try not to if I'm on a trip, but it's possible.
possible.
y'all travel a lot?
(40:01):
We do not a lot but we travel every year.
Oh nice.
I'm more of a traveler.
Eric isn't as much so sometimes I travel with a friend or the kids.
So where's the cool where's one of your favorite places you visited?
Recently Italy.
Where'd you go in Italy?
(40:22):
We went to Ferentia, Roma and Varecia.
Did you go to Florence?
That's Florence.
Sorry, I speak Italian.
Italian.
Oh, I don't.
I speak French.
love Florence and Tuscany and it's one of my favorite places in Italy.
Beautiful.
And a lot of places I want to see.
(40:44):
you know, it's funny.
People don't realize if you haven't been to Europe, you can eat whatever the heck you wantand you're not going to gain weight.
It's the I lost three pounds.
I've done the same.
You walk a lot.
The food supply is clean.
It's not the crud that it's in our food.
supply and it's like really good caliber stuff and the portions aren't Cheesecake Factoryportions.
(41:08):
You don't need a Cheesecake Factory plate to get full.
You don't need a 2,000 calorie salad.
Where do they put the calories?
Well you know it's funny it you know I started waiting tables, well I didn't start waitingtables there but I waited tables at Corky's in college and they had a barbecue salad which
was a bed of lettuce and then you know like four ounces of
(41:31):
barbecue meat, then a ton of cheese and vegetables, and people would get two big dressingsand a Diet Coke.
And I'm like, you could have gotten an order of ribs that would have been half thecalories.
Because by the time you load up all the dressing and the cheese and everything, you thinkyou're eating healthy.
Those salads are not.
They're not.
(41:52):
Thailand was also an amazing place.
That's on my list.
It's amazing.
I went took the kids there without Eric because it was right when we opened Alibaba and wecouldn't have both of us be gone.
And he was happy to stay home.
It was fun because my kids were teens and our first trip just the three of us.
(42:14):
of us.
Yeah, I've taken my kids to Europe a couple of times and it's nice when your kids areyoung adults.
You know, there's nothing fun about dragging a five year old around.
But when your kids are young adults, you travel with them.
It's just a whole different experience.
not like a parent and child.
It's like, yes, it's a parent and child, but you enjoy them as young adults.
(42:39):
And you get to really interact and have a much better.
And unfortunately, we didn't have the wherewithal to do more than one vacation a year.
And I think the last vacation we took was maybe when I was 11 or 12 as a family before mydad declared bankruptcy and what have you.
um
So definitely make time even if it's a local trip.
(43:01):
I like how you say y'all make date nights.
think date nights and you don't have to spend a lot of money to enjoy your life.
Like my fiance's from Michigan and she lives in a very small village.
800 people.
I can't spend money there if I want to.
Like if I had all the money in the world.
(43:22):
There's not a restaurant that would break the bank.
There's not, I have to drive 30 minutes to Target.
There's not a Lululemon.
There's not a fancy store.
There's not like a super nice restaurant where you can go pop a lot of money and get fancyfood.
And I'm still just as happy buying a cauliflower crust pizza at all these, doctoring it upand eating it at home.
(43:48):
So you don't have to have a lot of money.
It's all just,
It's all the perspective of everything.
We had one trip when we really broke one year and we had this free place to stay, cheaptickets, and we went to Austin in the winter.
It was one of the best trips we took.
The kids were pretty young and we went to the caves and it was, we loved that trip.
(44:12):
and it was very inexpensive.
You don't have to spend a lot of money to enjoy.
mean, I've always said if I was broke, I would just go to Costco every day and get a hotdog and a Coke because they're great hot dogs.
I how your body would do with a Costco hot dog.
I would walk 10,000 steps up and down the aisles.
(44:34):
So I would balance it out.
You know, it's been a pleasure.
uh
shooting the bull with you about barbecue and the business and just stuff in general.
It's always nice when you can enjoy the conversation.
So I appreciate your time today.
I appreciate you being a client and I can't wait for everybody to listen to this.
(45:00):
Thanks
thanks so much, I really appreciate it.
Take care, bye.
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