June 3, 2026 • 57 mins
A community meeting led by Sacramento County Supervisor Rich Desmond to address growing traffic safety concerns, specifically the proliferation of e-bikes and e-scooters. Local law enforcement and park officials provide a "crash course" on the legal distinctions between Class 1, 2, and 3 e-bikes, highlighting that many high-powered models are being operated illegally by minors. The California Highway Patrol emphasizes that electric motorcycles and modified bikes are strictly prohibited on public roads and often lead to dangerous injuries among teenagers. Officials explain that local ordinances now allow for misdemeanor charges and vehicle impoundment to curb reckless riding on the American River Parkway. The discussion underscores a collaborative strategy of education, engineering, and enforcement to manage modern transportation technology that has outpaced existing state laws. Finally, the sources encourage residents to report violations directly to specialized police teams to improve safety for pedestrians and cyclists alike.
Listen
Watch
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So we were.
Thank you all for coming on aon a Monday evening.
We weren't sure how many peoplewere going to come to this.
We had been hearing in some of my my travels
throughout my district, in district three,had been hearing from folks from gold
River up to Foothill Farmsand Arden Arcade about traffic.
(00:20):
We always hear about trafficsafety concerns, right?
Which is what this is about.
But a lot of the complaintswere about e-bikes
complaints, but also questionswhat's allowed, what's not allowed.
Who has responsibilityfor enforcing the law about e-bikes?
What is being doneto improve the situation?
(00:40):
So that was kind of the genesisof this idea, to have a community meeting
specifically to talk about traffic safety,with an emphasis on e-bikes.
And it also got extendednot only to the Highway Patrol
because, as you know, they handleall the traffic related jurisdiction
in the unincorporated partsof Sacramento County.
My former colleagueshere, who I'll introduce in a moment,
(01:03):
but then also a lot of questionsand concerns about what's allowed,
what's not allowed on the American River,American River Parkway.
And so we have our regional parksdirector, Liz
Bellis,here with a sergeant acting commander.
Close enough.
Yeah.
Close enough
here to talk about specifically aboutwhat's going on on the Parkway
(01:26):
and some recent changesto our county ordinance
and some of the thingsthat are doing out there.
But I as aas a former member of the highway patrol,
traffic safety is obviously somethingthat was is near and dear to my heart.
And I've seen the impacts ofof what happens
when people are not drivingsafely, riding safely.
(01:47):
And I think we're all feelingsome of that in our communities.
And actually the the North DivisionCHP commander, Jamie Kenyon.
Jamie, Jamie, raise your hand is here.
So she is in charge of the CHP officeon Madison and date over here.
They handle almost all of my district,with the exception of Fair Oaks and
Gold River.That's handled by a different CHP office.
(02:08):
But Jamie and I actually workedin the highway patrol.
One of my last assignments wasas the legislative liaison for the CHP.
And that was about, what, ten years ago?
And that was about the timethat the legislature was making
a lot of changes in the lawrelating to electric bicycles, mopeds,
motorcycles, essentially allowinga lot of different modes of transportation
(02:32):
that had not previously been allowedunder the California Vehicle Code.
And I remember as the CHP ledge guy,I was, Jamie and I went and got into
a lot of meetings with legislatorsand the governor's office about,
okay, what is what does the Highway Patrolthink about this?
How is this going to work?
And one of our concerns all along was,hey, if you are legalizing
all of these things without appropriateguardrails, it's going to cause some
(02:57):
confusion by by the users, by the parentswho are buying them for the users,
certainly by people in the communityand for law enforcement agencies.
And that's that's I think, whatwe have been seeing over the years,
after we hear from from Jamie
and Liz Bellisand our parks district commander,
Ranger commander, I'll talk a little bitabout some of the legislative efforts
(03:20):
that are ongoing.
And I know some ofyou may have some other insight
about some of the legislationthat's being pursued to address the issue,
but this is not strictlylimited to e-bikes.
So I want to be clear about that.
We are what we're going to do tonightis because we do have a large crowd,
we're I'm going to ask you
if you have a comment or a question,put it on a one of these note cards.
(03:41):
And Vanessa from my office, I haveVanessa, Kendra, and Iris from my office.
They have cards.
If you want to ask a questionor make a comment
that just that's a way to kind of keep,
I think, the conversation moving betterand avoid some redundant questions.
If I have two questions
about the same thing,
I'm just going to obviouslygoing to ask one of them,
and I'm going to try to group themtogether when we get to the Q&A portion
(04:03):
to make sure that we're,
you know, talk about the e-bikes,and then if there's other traffic
safety related issues,we can talk about that.
I also want to recognize Mackenzie.
Where are you? Raise your hand.
So we have Mackenzie McKenzie,one of our principal engineers at
what is it senior o senior seniorsenior planning engineer
from our Department of Transportationhere.
I'm not going to put Mackenzie on the spotnecessarily to come speak up here,
(04:26):
but it is true that a lot of our traffic
safetymeasures are not just about enforcement.
When I was in the CHP, we hadit was kind of the three E's enforcement,
Engineering and enforcement,engineering and education.
Education is a big part of it,but so is engineering.
And engineering could be everythingfrom how the roadway is designed,
(04:47):
what kind of traffic signals
you have, what kind of markings you have,you know, speed bumps.
Lori, where are you?
Back there somewhere. So.
So Mackenzie's here also to to maybeanswer some questions if those come up
and also to take notes about issuesyou're seeing in your neighborhood.
So the way this is going to gois I'm going to first I'll go to Jamie
(05:09):
Captain Kenyon
here to talk about kind of the role,what you're seeing, what you're doing.
And then we'll hear from from Lizand our Ranger commander
about that very thing,and then we'll move into Q&A.
So thank you again for being here.
I think based on just this turnout,we may do another one of these
at some point, maybe later this summerif we can, we can squeeze it.
(05:32):
And I try to do a lot of these communitymeetings on on different topics,
but this is clearly onethat is important to all of you.
So with that, Captain Kenyon,I'll give you the floor and you're going
to need to use the microphonebecause the room goes way in the back.
Do you want all your all your folks uphere?
Yeah.
You're coming up
in case there's something that comes upthat they know a lot more than I do.
(05:54):
So again, I want to echowhat Supervisor Desmond has said.
Thank you very much for being here.As you said, my name is Jamie.
I'm the captain commanderof North Sacramento area.
And again, we're in chargeof all the traffic responsibilities
in unincorporated SAC County,which includes bicycles and the like.
So what we wanted to do
(06:14):
is just kind of give a quick overviewon the bicycles themselves.
There's a lot of confusion onwhat's a class one, what's a class two,
what's a class three.
So I want to kind of givea quick crash course in that.
And then if you were able toI only made 50 copies.
I apologize, but I can
I can email this to youif you guys want to stick around
and give me your email addressso that you can have access.
This is something that my officeput together.
(06:36):
Actually, Sergeant Reed is responsiblefor putting this document together to
kind of give a
dumbed down version of some of the lawsthat we deal with
quite frequently to make it more easyfor parents to understand what's going on.
So classone bicycle A class one bicycle is
your your regular pedaled bicycle, right?
(06:57):
It's only going to go up to 20 milesan hour, and it's the pedal assisted.
A class two bicycle can be eitherpedal assisted or throttle,
so a class two bicyclealso can only go up to 20mph, but
a rider can write it with just a throttleso they never have to pedal.
And that bike only can go up to 20.
(07:17):
Now, class three is wherewe're seeing a lot of
the dangerous activitiesthat are coming around.
So the class threescan go all the way up to 28mph.
So on some of these residential streetswhere the speed limit is 25mph,
you have
bicyclists that are easily able to exceedthe posted speed limit for vehicles.
(07:38):
So a class three bicycle that goes up to28mph will not have a throttle.
It is clearly pedal assisted,but by using that pedal assist,
it generates enough wattageto get the bicycle up to 28mph.
So some of the thingsthat are also important for class threes
is that you have to be 16 years oldto ride them.
(07:59):
So if you are under 16,you cannot ride a class three.
So you have to be 16.
And everybody, even adult,have to wear a helmet no matter the age.
So those are some of thethe big differentiations between
the the bicycle classes.
One second.
(08:25):
So I wantedto just touch on a few of the stats.
Orange County is doing an excellent jobof trying to gather
all the statistics that go aroundwith the injuries that we're seeing,
and this is for preventableinjuries to children.
So we're looking at under 18 years of old,under 18 years of age.
So Davis have UC Davis has taken thatinformation and kind of made it their own.
(08:47):
So I'm just going to give you some stats.
And this is specific to UC Davis.
And these are injuriesthat they're seeing.
Again they're all preventable.
They're all e-bikes or e-scooters.
And they are they capturepeople who have come to the hospital
for treatment and been released are peoplethat have been hospitalized.
So the stats that we're missing are peoplethat have been injured that just did
(09:09):
their own treatment at home, individualsthat went to an urgent care
or individualsthat went to their primary care physician.
So all of those arenot included in these stats.
So in 2025, in Sacramento,
falls are still the number one for at UC
Davis that people are seeing with injuriesto kids down in Orange County.
(09:30):
The number one injury re bike crashes.
So that hasn't gottenthat far up here yet.
But e-scooter so falls.
We had 600 that were seen at UC Davis.
E-scooters accounted for 79 and e-bikesaccounted for 68.
The majority of all of these kids
are 14 years of age,and they're mostly men males.
(09:53):
So three out of every four riders aremales that are being hurt, and almost
the majority of them are right around 13or 14 with the majority of 14.
And that's consistent up here at Davisand consistent
down in Orange County.
So I know
I've touched a little bit on the e-bikes,but also the e-scooters.
If you see a lot of if you're downtownor a more populated area,
(10:16):
you see a lot of those lime
scooters, the the green and white onesthat you can just rent and ride around.
So those are also illegalfor anybody under 16.
You have to be at least 16 to ride those.
So we're I'm going to turn itover to the sergeant here.
And he's going to touch on
some of the efforts that the CHP officersbehind me here that you see are doing.
We're going out to schoolsand we're actually walking
(10:38):
superintendentsand principals through their bike line
so that they can be like,hey, that's illegal, that's illegal.
They can't have that.
They can't have that, because if they'reunder 16, they can't have those scooters.
So you have parents that don't understandthe rules
that are buying these for their kids,and they can't even be on them.
So we're trying to do a concerted effortto educate the public
and educate the parents.
(10:58):
And so I thank Supervisor
Desmond for having this meeting,because this is where it all starts.
The more education we can get out there,we can prevent some of these injuries
because we all havea shared responsibility,
whether we're bicyclists or workersor we're pedestrians.
So we want to make sure that we understandthe laws that are out there
and understand what we can and can't do.
I see your hand and I'll get toyou just real quick.
(11:20):
The last thing before I turn it over isI want to touch on the E motorcycles.
So that is probably the the number one
problem we're seeing in my officeare the E motorcycle.
So these are just the electricmotorcycles.
These are absolutely illegalto ride on any street anywhere.
They cannot be registered by the DMVand they are not street legal.
(11:41):
And the problem isthey're all kids on these.
And then when we try to pull them over
and take any kind of enforcement action,they often run from us.
So we're getting into pursuitswith these motorcycles with 13 and 14,
and we actually had a 12 year oldthat ran from us,
and we don't knowwho's on this motorcycle.
We just pull them over to educate them.
(12:02):
We're now beginning to impound these,so if we pull them over and catch them,
we're taking them.
So it's going to cost Mom and Dad moneyto come get them out of impound.
But the first and foremost, we wantto educate so that they understand that.
So we don't ever get to that point.
Go ahead sir.
Just wanted to askwhen it comes to crash, have you looked
at the Transportation Institute reportthat came out late last year?
(12:24):
I have not.
Okay.
We're going to do questions.
We're doing. Questions on a car. Okay.
But e-bike crashes are half of
what e-scooters are 5 to 6 timesless than analog bike crashes.
We really want to do more.
Okay, well, we'll keep moving on.
I did want to point out one thing before.
(12:44):
So this sheet that I handed off,we've already had two mistakes
that were pointed out to us.
So if you look on class three
e-bikes and e-scooters,we have on here that yes,
you can use those on a classone bike path.
So our Sacramento County have actuallyby ordinance not allowed that.
(13:05):
So that's another thingthat we'll have to update on here.
So what we're going to have to do,
depending on where you liveand where you're writing,
you need to make sure you checkwith your local ordinances
and make sure that there'snot a local ordinance that prohibits this.
So the class three e-bikeand the e-scooter
are not allowed to be used on a classone bike
(13:25):
on the American River Parkwayby by local ordinance.
So I want to turn it over to SergeantGreg Reed again.
He's a sergeant in our office,
and he oversees our problem orientedpolicing team.
Great. So before you walk away.
Can I ask. You. A question?
If someone has now, did not everybody.
Got a copy of this chartshe's referring to?
Correct something.
Not we'll make we'll get more copiesand we can.
(13:47):
I don't know how we can link that.
Vanessa, if you want to get a okay.
We do have another chart hereon the table.
It doesn't have all.The information. Yours does.
But I think. You've.
Mentioned either OTS or on a website.
Where can people find more informationlike this.
So again I'll give you an email addressthat we'll be able to send this to
that you can get this whole packeton the very last page.
(14:10):
There's a QR codeand we'll stick around after.
If anybody wants to come and snap a pic,this is actually going to take you to
CHP e-bike bicycle Safety and Training.
So this was
a legislatively required classthat they asked the CHP to come up with.
So that number one,we can educate the public on e-bikes in.
This was several years agowhen they were coming out
(14:30):
quite faster than the lawcould keep up with them.
And then also for kids that get cited,this is one of the things
that they have to do to basically
get rid of the ticketis that they have to attend this class.
So they have to go on and take this classand in an educational safety class.
So again,that's the QR code on the back page.
But I'll make sure everyone has thatbefore we leave today. Yep.
(14:55):
Hi Sergeant.
Gregory, CHP North Sacramento.
I'm in charge of our pop team.
These are my pop officers behind me.
What we do as the pop
teams, problem oriented policingwere your police force basically.
So Sacramento CHP is very uniquehow that we have more unincorporated area
than pretty muchany other CHP office in the state.
And with that, you guys have uniqueconcerns and issues that come up.
(15:19):
And the number one complaint we have fromyou guys right now is the e-bikes.
So with that, any complaints,you have our email to directly come to us.
And myself and my three officersall have access to this email
that we checkat least three times a day is
250P op 250 pop at CHP.
(15:44):
That goes directly
to us and we are very responsive on it.
We Monday through Friday,we try to get back to you within hours,
if not sooner.
So any concerns you have, whetherthey're e-bikes or traffic or pedestrians
or panhandlers, please send those to usand we will respond to you.
And also along withif you did not get a packet today,
(16:06):
email that email and we will get you oneright away through the email.
So some of the efforts
we're doing to combat the e-bikes,excuse me, the e-bikes right now
are we are actually working with oh,
it's 250 pop.
So it's 250 pop at CHP gov.
(16:29):
So we're partnering with schoolsspecifically right
now, San JuanUnified and other neighboring schools.
And we are actually going to the schoolsand pointing out to the teachers and the
administration of what's legally allowedand what's not allowed at the schools.
The biggest one people do not knowabout is the e-scooters.
People are buying thesefor their children,
(16:49):
and you are not allowed to be on one
unless you're 16 years of agewith a driver's license.
I know the San Juan Unified SchoolDistrict Board recently,
they were surprised to learn that,and there had been
a couple of themhad purchased them for their children,
and they were shocked to hearthat information because they had no idea
that wasn't allowed.
So that's one that's the biggest partwe're doing right now is education.
(17:12):
We also try to do as much enforcementas possible,
but as the captain alluded to,it can be very tricky because
the last thing we want to do isget into a high speed chase with a 13 year
old or 14 year old,and for them to run a stop, sign
with us and next thingyou know, we're taking it to the hospital.
So we have to weigh those odds infor the betterment of everybody.
(17:36):
And so sometimes we just have to notchase them, try and track them down later.
We have done that work
with the schools to identify the children,and it's worked quite well.
But we have caught severalthrough pursuits
and luckily so farevery one of them has ended safely.
That's our biggestgoal, is the safety of everybody.
That is the one reasonwhy we're focusing on the e-bikes
(17:59):
is because these childrenare going faster than ever now,
and when they do crash,they're getting seriously injured.
I've been to multiplejust in the past month
to where these childrenhad major injuries.
And so, yes, sir,there might be other things
that you're seeing more crashes from.
But these e-bike and e-scooter collisionsalso actually
(18:20):
causing the most injuries to children.
So that is one thingthat we're focused on.
And one thing we want to combatis the children with these scooters.
My pop team, you guys have any questionsor anything you want to put out?
I do want to say one more thing. So.
What we'reseeing down south, I don't know.
And I apologize
if it has happened up here,but in Southern California, the Das down
(18:43):
there are now starting to charge parentswith some of these crimes.
So it's only a matter of timeif it's not here,
that it will eventually come up here.
But it has become such a prolific problemwith the e-bikes and the e-scooters
and the pedestriansand just being responsible,
shared roadway users that the parentsare being charged for child
endangerment, child neglect, contributingto the delinquency of a minor.
(19:06):
So just keep that in thought to.
So. Email address one more time.
250POP at CHP
gov 250 pop at gov.
And I will attest to the factthat there are very responsive
(19:29):
and whether it's e-bikesor someone speeding in your neighborhood
blowing through a stop signin your neighborhood, it's
they'll they will they will get on it.
They will go out thereand do some targeted enforcement.
If you can get a license plate, maybe an identification
of the driver location, time of day,day of the week.
That's always really hopeful as well.
But but use them. People don't.
(19:50):
The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
You've got to report this stuff.
And the CHP,we just had a meeting actually,
Senator Nealand I just hosted a meeting with the CHP.
Legislative lights onand someone from their division
that oversees Jamie's office and others asking for more enforcement
in these unincorporated areas
because it is not historicallybeen a priority for the highway patrol.
(20:12):
But they all do a great job, and they getsick and tired of hearing from me.
I want them to hear fromyou as well in your community.
So thank you.
And a lot of the questions I have herewill be talking about.
We'll be following upon some of the things they brought up.
But before we do that, because
it bleeds into some things on the Parkway,I want to now turn it over to Liz
Bellis, our regional park director,Sacramento County Regional Parks.
(20:35):
Thank you for beinghere, Liz. You're welcome.
Come on up.
Good evening everyone.
I see a lot of familiar facesin the audience.
So hello.
Nice to see you all. Yes.
We have done some additional changesto our county parks ordinances,
which also can be adopted
by your local park districtsif they so choose, just FYI.
(20:59):
So what we have done,they will be going into effect on June
12th of this yearand we have changed the what can happen.
So rather than just being infractions,they can also be up to a misdemeanor
if the conditions warrant.
So that is for anyone who is usingan illegal e-bike, an emoto or a modified
(21:25):
illegal bike on our park system,it can be up to a misdemeanor.
We're also using that to address
some of the damagewe've seen to our natural areas, where
we've had folks that are buildingbike jumps and other things
and destroying our natural resources, sothat, again, can be up to a misdemeanor.
And also our golf courses
(21:47):
and our sports fieldshave been getting some damage.
Again, that's a brand new ordinance,but we're trying to address
that, that problem.
Additionally, we have a partnershipwith our Department of Transportation,
Department of Public Health,and First five, where we're working
on developing some educational materialsfor for kids and for parents.
(22:09):
That will be a little bit more fun,
if you will, to try and really get thatmessage home again, emphasizing
on what is allowed, what is not allowed,and to really get the kids educated
and the parents educatedso they're keeping their kids safe.
With that, I'm going to turn itover to commander, see if you want to add
(22:30):
anything to what we're doing.
It's rough going to be the last person.
Usually everybody saideverything that needs to be said.
So all I can echo is the same thingsthat the captain mentioned from CHP,
except we're experiencingthose same issues in our parkway.
And so we are addressingthose as we come across them.
We have had situationswhere we already have impounded motos
(22:53):
and some of the illegally modifiede-bikes.
They are not allowed in the parkway.
So we are taking enforcement action,and we're looking for opportunities
to potentially partnerwith our CHP law enforcement
friends to
conduct enforcement actionsin the Parkway, because
as much as it's problematic on the street,it's as problematic in our parkway
(23:16):
because you're having basicallyyou have vehicle bicycle interactions.
We're having pedestrian, bicyclists,bicyclists, bicyclists interactions.
And people end up getting hurtjust as bad, if not worse in our parkway.
So we are actively looking for those folkswho are violating the rules.
And as Director Bellis mentioned,now we have a little bit more of a hammer
(23:36):
if need be, in a form of it's
not just in a fractionlike a traffic ticket,
it could actually bea misdemeanor offense.
So we're looking forwardto taking more progressive and
proactive action in the Parkwayto keep everybody safe.
Thank you.
So stick around here, Jamie.
You too, because we'll start with the.
(23:58):
Questions in a moment.
So if you look at this chartit tells you right here
I mean you can see how confusingthis whole legislative scheme is
because you have differentclasses of bikeways, which gets confusing.
All these different classesof vehicles, electric vehicles
that can be used in different places.
And it's you can seewhy it's a struggle for enforcement.
(24:21):
It's amazinghow many local enforcement agencies,
whether it's city
or the highway patrol or park rangers,they get confused about this
because it's relatively newand it's inherently confusing.
I did have a chance to talk today.
I looked at some of the legislationthat is that is going through the process
right now.
(24:41):
There's about four billsthat are still alive.
I hear maybe
two of these may end up becoming law,and they kind of nibble around the edges
a little bit, but they accomplisha few different things.
I think one of them that is probablythe most promising is I'm going
looking at my notes,because I had a discussion,
long discussionwith the legislative director
for the California League of Citiesand the the one that's probably
(25:05):
the best is to reclassifysome of these electric bikes to to require
more consistency in terms of registrationand licensing and manufacturer liability.
We are seeing some manufacturersgetting sued by people,
and some of these lawsuits have beenmaking their way through the process.
And actually, I was told today,I don't know if this is true.
(25:26):
If you've seen this,it's hard to buy some of these,
depending on the class, even on Amazonanymore.
It's not as easy to get them as it.
It was kind of the Wild Westfor a few years, and I think,
I think both third party sellersand manufacturers are realizing
that they have some, some real liabilityconcerns with these things.
There's another bill that would,would require or allow only one writer
(25:49):
on these these devices or vehicles,depending on which class it is.
There was
there was one that would standardizethe equipment that could
that has to be on each one of them.
And there is another billthat would require specific training
for use of these, because right now,I don't think there's
any legislatively mandatedtraining for any of them.
(26:11):
When you first by one of these,one of these bikes.
So that's that's something to to consider.
I'm also told that the law does allow
local jurisdictionsto impose some regulatory measures.
And I'm told Orange County is the entirecounty is pursuing an ordinance right now.
I don't know if that's unincorporatedcounty, frankly, or, or or
(26:31):
it would would apply to the entire countythat would not allow anybody 12
and under to have use any of thesewithin the jurisdiction.
So local local municipalities, counties
and cities are startingto pay more attention about this, to this.
They're all struggling with withhow to address it.
But I think, you know, hopefully we'll seewhat the legislature can come up with.
(26:53):
So I'm going to gothrough these questions.
Vanessa, let's not collect anymore becausewe're not going to have enough time.
I have too many questionshere. Most of them are about e-bikes.
So I'll try to keep all those together.
And then we have a few other outlierquestions that kind of go beyond that.
The first one I know we havedo have some young people in the audience.
And this is a question, Jamie,
you alluded to itwhen you talked about pulling people over.
(27:14):
How will you how will you stop
under 16 year olds from buying and writing
on theclass three or an E motor on the streets?
I'll let you respond to this.
I mean, buying them.
I don't know if there's anythingyou can do specifically.
But so.
The biggest. Push right nowis education, right?
(27:34):
Because the kids that are that youngprobably aren't buying them themselves.
They're getting them as Christmaspresents,
birthday presents, and their parentsor a loved one is buying it for them.
So we're trying to educate thoseindividuals so that they know what's safe
and what's legal for the childrenthat are out there.
It's kind of a lotwe hear a lot about if it's illegal,
why are they allowed to sell it?
(27:55):
And the biggest analogythat I can use is like window tint, right?
It's not illegal to buy window tint.
It just can't be on specific windows.
So the same thing, it's not illegalto buy these e-bikes.
They just have to be used appropriately,responsibly and by the right individuals.
Okay. That's good.
And you know don't go too far.
(28:17):
So you talked about this.
I want you to flush it because there werea few questions on this.
And maybe someone wrote them downbefore you went over it.
But the question about wired driver'slicenses,
why are driver license is not requiredfor class one, 2 or 3 e-bikes?
That's not the case. Go over thata little bit more.
What are the driver's license requirementsfor the different class of of vehicles.
(28:38):
So I'm going to have Sergeantcome up here with me too
because I know he does a lot with this,
but you have to have a driver's licenseto operate in e-scooter.
So if we're talkingabout the class of bicycles,
you don't need a driver's licensefor the class of bicycles.
You do once you get to an e-scooter.
Yes. Like lime.
That's that's the biggest that everyone'sfamiliar with in this area are the lime.
(28:59):
But you also there's, you know, onesthat they sell at Costco in Walmart
that are the bigger it'sbased on the wattage of the motor.
And those are all driver'slicense required.
Regardless of how fast it goes, if it's
if it's powered by electricityor a battery because they're everywhere.
Yes, driven by small kidsand they have to have driver's licenses
(29:20):
by California law.
So and that also includeslike those little hoverboards.
So those aren't as prevalentas they were several years ago.
But the littlewhere you just stand on them
and you use the forward or backward motionto turn.
Those also now require a driver's licenseand a lot of the legislation.
I know it's really confusing,
but technology is so much fasterthan our legislative process.
So all of this stuff is coming out fasterthan we can keep up with it.
(29:43):
So that'swhy these pages look like they do.
And there's all these different charts,because it's really hard to
to manage thisand make sure everyone stays safe.
So we're we're just trying to stay upwith technology and it's very fast.
So that would includeelectric skateboards.
Yes. Electric skateboards. Same thing.
You see these boards with one wheeland then you see electric skateboards
where someone is just maybe holdinga little remote control.
(30:06):
They have to have a driver's license.
Yes, sir.
And by definition, if they're under 16.
They. Can'tthey cannot have a driver's license.
Yeah. So. So. Right. Yeah. No.
Obviously
technologyworks much faster than our legislators.
Okay, Jamie,if a child is writing his e-bike,
his or her e-bike through traffic,breaking several laws
(30:28):
and does not stop,what would happen if you saw him?
If he was seen by one of your officers?
Juvenile?
If a child? Yes.
What is our recourse if what isand then what is the public's recourse
if they see that happening?
And someone said it just happened today
at Oaks and Landis right heredown the street.
So we have a couple different optionsthat are available to us.
Officersare given a great leeway of discretion,
(30:50):
and we allow themto take a couple different.
They can absolutely right the childa citation, but basically when they write
the citation, they're going to label itas a parent's responsibility.
So when it comes to the office,there's a letter that I write that
I send out to the parents,which basically tells them
that on this day, at this time,we stopped your child.
This is what we had.
(31:11):
The officer sometimes will take the childto the house, you know,
walk the child to the houseat their nearby
and talk to the parentsand educate the parents.
Most of the timethe parents don't even know.
So it's just taking that extra effort.
We aren't in the businessof going out there and finding kids
and writing citationsand trying to hit them financially.
We just want everybody to be safe,
and especially with the pedestriansand the cars and the bikes.
(31:34):
Even if a bicyclist is not at fault,if they're in a collision,
especially with a motor vehicle,they're going to be hurt.
And that's what we're trying to to avoid.
So okay, here's a question.
Some of these are a little bit redundant.
Or Jamie already covered it.
But class two bike can be modified to60mph faster or to go faster than 20mph.
(31:54):
They're sold at 20,but then can be reprogramed to 40mph.
What do you do in that situationand why is this not?
Why is this notconsidered an E motorcycle at that point?
So some of the modifications that they dowill make this an E motorcycle.
So as soon as you it's really unfortunatebecause you can go watch a five minute
(32:17):
YouTube videoand be able to modify these to go 60mph.
So it's really kind of scarywhat's out there right now.
But as soon as it's modified,it's illegal, right?
Like any kind of those modifications wipesit off.
And I know, Greg, if you want to talk toany more about that.
So yeah, basically the second is modified.
It becomes an E motorcycleand no longer meets
the requirements for the classone or class two or class three.
(32:39):
And so then you have to have a driver'slicense.
You cannot be on the roadways has to be onspecial designated areas only,
almost like an offhighway vehicle at that point.
So they just can't the second or modifiedyou're off the road.
But again, for us it's hard to determinewhich are modified and which or not,
because we might see them going18 miles an hour.
(33:00):
That thing really goes 60.
We would have no clueuntil we see them going faster.
There's a couple of questions hereabout and again,
this is this all speaks to the confusionabout the about this legislative scheme.
A couple questionsabout the pedal operations and what what
e-bikes is, are pedals optional
and wherewhich bikes are pedals required?
(33:24):
I mean, if I see something with pedals,is it automatically an e-bike?
And if it doesn't have pedals,it's an E motorcycle.
Kind of talk about thata little bit. Absolutely.
For your bicycles, obviouslyyou have your traditional bicycle.
We all know, like whata traditional bicycle.
All bicycles are going to have pedals.
If the petals are removedthen they're no longer an E bicycle.
They have to have pedals.
(33:44):
The difference is a classone is a pedal assisted up to 20mph.
So that's as fast as it can go.
And it kind of gives you a little bitof a boost when you do your pedals.
A class two you don't have to pedal.
It has a throttle,usually a thumb throttle, and that still
tops out at 20mph.
So on a class two,you don't have to pedal.
(34:05):
You can just throttle it up to 20mph.
A class three does not have a throttle,but it can go pedal assisted up to 28.
So trying to make thisas easy as possible.
They all have pedals.
They all are pedal assisted.
One and two go to 20.
Class three is go to 28.
(34:25):
What else did I miss.
So I'mtrying to make that as easy as possible.
So the only one that you don't have topedal that will still go is or class two.
And anything modifiedthat makes it in that cycle.
And those are unable to be registeredwith the DMV and makes them
absolutely illegal on our on our highways,pathways, sidewalks, everything.
Okay now?
(34:46):
We had to give a chance to Lizand the sergeant or the commander here
to weigh in the question.
This question is about it on the leveeswhere motorized
vehicles of any kind, including electricbikes, are prohibited without a permit.
Can you talk a little bit about that,that prohibition is that from the county?
Is that from the flood control district?
And talk about enforcement a little bit.I know you touched on it.
(35:08):
Can you talk a little bit about about whatyou're seeing on the tops of the levees?
So the,
the tops of the levees are not actualbike.
Trails themselves.
And sobut we know that people are out there.
They're using them.
And the different agencies,the different flood control agencies
have different feelings on whether or notyou should be on the levee tops.
(35:30):
Some of them are kind of okay with it.
Some of them absolutely say,no, you shouldn't be on them at all.
But it's not somethingthat we're out there enforcing
as far as telling peoplethey're not supposed to be on there
because people are recreating on themwith bikes and pedestrians as well.
So then, Liz,would that be, you know, already
(35:50):
1000 is has jurisdiction over those?
I mean, who would handle who who would bethe primary have primary responsibility
for enforcement there.
Could could CHP.
Enforce on the top of a levee?
They could we could also enforceif if the agencies reached out to us
and said, we want you to strictly enforcethe levee tops
and not allow anyone on them,we could enforce on that.
(36:11):
So it's already 1000.
It's AmericanRiver flood control district.
Suburban doesn't have any levees,but there's a few different agencies
that that have leveeswithin the American River Parkway.
And and I will follow up with them.
Will you take a note about that?
Vanessa, already 1000 in the
(36:32):
other other American River floodcontrol district.
Okay.We talked a little bit about education.
Can you talkyou talked about what San Juan is doing.
What about other schooldistricts and educational efforts
to educate people in their studentsand their parents about the rules
and other educational efforts
throughout the state, whether it'sOTS or go ahead, you can start locally.
(36:55):
So like I said, wewe do have a public outreach campaign
that we're working on right nowthat we will be getting out to.
It'll be targeted towards parentsand to students.
Look for that probably late this summer.
Again, we're trying to design it.
It'll be social media.
(37:16):
So we're we're developing.
Like I said, it's going to looka little bit less governmental,
if you will, no offense.
So that it'll hopefully appealto the younger generations
and also to the parents.
So they can kind of relate to it
and they can bring something outand show their kids.
So we're working onit'll have a nice logo, a look and feel
(37:38):
consistent that we can bring out toeveryone and put up signage in our parks.
And that type of outreach and education.
So some of whatwe're seeing with our school districts is
they are looking to actively bancertain class of bikes
from even being on the school grounds.
They have that authorityand they've had meetings.
(38:00):
I know recently we went and spoke at oneSan Juan Unified School District,
basically because
just trying to educate them as well, andthey wanted to input from law enforcement.
But I know there are schools in PlacerCounty.
I can't remember
which ones off the top of my head,but they're just outright banning
the e-scooters and the class three bikes,and then they're only allowing
(38:21):
certain onesso that they don't even have to
to deal with the kids and not beingon the right bicycle and not being safe.
How about asOTS, the state Office of Traffic Safety,
do they have any grantfunded educational programs?
So we do have a bicycleand pedestrian safety grant
(38:42):
that we are allocated through OTS that'soperated out of our headquarters office.
So usually we get involvedbecause we're allocated certain hours
that we can go out and do.
And we did a couple of weeks agowhen we opened at Fulton El Camino Park,
a shared roadway space.
Some of that grant moneywas used on that project.
But we do have where we go outand try to do these.
(39:02):
We call them rodeosjust to try to teach bicycle safety,
pedestrian safety, and then alsothat shared roadway responsibility.
And then we also OTS grantfunds, helmets.
So we're able to go out and we properly fit people to their bicycles,
whether you're an adult or a child,
so that you knowthe proper alignment of the bike size.
And then also if you don't have a helmetor if you need a new helmet,
(39:23):
whether you're a child or an adult,we'll properly fit you with a helmet
and give you one for free,courtesy of grants from OTS.
I have something else to add,
but I wanted to recognizewe have at least one member.
More than that, I think of our AmericanRiver bike patrol here in the audience.
And so they have an MoU with us.
(39:43):
They do patrol on our trail system,but also state
parks, and I believe in El DoradoCounty as well.
Yes. And.
So they have greatly expandedtheir volunteer efforts.
And so they are a great partner with us
as far as educating peopleout on the trail system.
(40:03):
And you also have events occasionallywhere you're
fitting kids with helmetsand giving those out for free as well.
Those helmets are donated by UC Davischildhood home.
So I didn't want toI didn't want to leave them out.
Good.
Thank you, Liz, forand thank you for the work you do.
And it's all volunteerbasis and it's invaluable
(40:23):
and kind of more dangerouswith the climate we're talking about.
You know, so much of this is boilsdown to the parents.
And you mentioned some prosecutorsactually going
after the parents for child endangermentand things like that.
Have you seen that in Sacramento County?
Because I do want to follow upwith our community prosecutor
about that very thing.Have we seen that here?
I have not, but I'm I mean,there may be some that I'm not aware of,
(40:47):
but there's been severalpretty notable cases down south, and one,
unfortunately led to the deathof a veteran, an 81 year old veteran
that was hit by a kid, and his motheris being charged with manslaughter.
Okay. All right.
So this is this is a comment about twoe-bikes have hit someone while walking
on the bike trail, once on the leveeand once on the on the trail itself.
(41:09):
So obviously,I mean, you're hearing about it.
It's a huge, huge concernon the American River Parkway as well.
Okay.
Here's a question here about SAC County
adopting the same ordinanceas Marin County that class two e-bikes
with throttle or throttles are classifiedas E motos and class twos.
Anyone over 16 years old, 16 yearsonly for people over 16 years old.
(41:33):
After helmets for all ages.
So something I'm going to hold on to thisand follow up on it, because I mentioned
what they're doing down in Orange County.
I'm going to follow up with our countycouncil about what what else we can do
locally, not just along the parkway,which is exclusively SAC County,
but something else we can maybe do Countyin the unincorporated parts
of Sacramento County.We would not be able to.
(41:55):
I don't think we would be able to regulatewhat they do within any of the cities,
but we certainly could do it within theunincorporated areas of Sacramento County.
But that's somethingI'm going to follow up on.
What are some of the good local ordinancesthat have been adopted to
maybe address some of the challengesthat we're seeing on our roadways?
Okay.
This is I don't know if
this is a good question about this being,you know, a national issue.
(42:18):
What are we.
What are we seeing from other communities,not just in California,
but nationwideand maybe in other countries?
Are we seeing some any innovative thingsthat maybe we haven't tried here or
should be trying?
I'm not sure
about innovation, but I was on a callwith the National Recreation
Park Association, and it was a good hourand a half where we spoke
(42:42):
park districts all over the country,and they're all facing the same issue.
So we were lookingat some of their education materials
to see what we could glean fromand borrow.
But I wouldn't say thatthere's innovative ideas.
I would say that it is a nationwide issuethat people are trying to address
and recognize the fact that it needsto be addressed as soon as possible.
(43:03):
Does any of that say thatthose that were looking?
I don't think.
I'm going to.
So she asked, is any of that addressthat the bicycle is a deadly weapon?
Not to my knowledge,but as far as the charges
that are being filed, the one specificallyin orange, I apologize.
I don't know if it's Orange County,I just know it's Southern California
(43:25):
is where the child had already been talked to
for by law enforcement for drivingrecklessly on his on his e-bike,
and the mother was made aware on bodycamera that her son was driving recklessly
and she could be held accountableif something happened.
And then fast forward a couple of months,he hit and killed an 81 year old veteran,
and so they actually are chargingthe mother with manslaughter
(43:48):
because they can clearly showthat she had knowledge,
prior knowledge
that her son was driving recklessly andthat it could hurt somebody, which it did.
It took this man's life.
So I have not seen anythingabout a deadly weapon, but they are.
I mean, those are pretty serious charges.
I think, you know, litigationis going to drive a lot of the policy.
I think, in terms of thethe limitations on what can be done.
(44:12):
I do know also there are effortsand discussions about
as part of the legislative proposals,how do you really require these e-bikes
to have very, very clear identificationabout what
bike it is, what it's supposed to be,and have parents have to
maybe sign somethingif they buy a bike for a minor
(44:32):
that discloses the dangers of these bikes,and if it's misused,
and that they'll be held responsible
for any injuries or property damagethat happens as a result of it.
Things are being pursuedin that vein as well.
So okay,
okay.
Clarification I'm going to skip that one.
(44:54):
Skip this one.
Some of these I can't read very well.
Let's let's move off e-bikes for a moment.
And talk about some other other trafficsafety
related issues, because obviously there'sa lot of traffic safety related
things that are that are not just causedby e-bikes or emotes.
(45:17):
Okay?
That one's about trespassing.That's not it.
So let's talk about
this is speeding.
This is let's talk about engineeringand whether SAC County
has any plans to increasebike lane Witts widths
or provide other safe surfaces and curbsbetween cars and bikes.
(45:39):
Now, McKenzie, can you I canI can comment on this a little bit,
but I don't know if you want
to make a statement about Dotand what some of the things we're doing
to have more physicallyseparated bike lanes.
Yes. I don't know
how much you want me to say, but.
(46:01):
Come on up.
Use the microphone.
On email.
Hi, I'm Mackenzie Clark.
I'm a senior planner, not an engineer,but I do know my way around
making concept plansfor bicycle pedestrian infrastructure.
And I'm within the alternative modesgroup at Dot.
So I specifically focus on bicyclepedestrian related projects,
(46:24):
consistent with the county'sgoals of safety for all road users.
Right.
There's a lot of great projectsthat the county has currently
being constructed and upcoming to include
the protected bikeways or classfour bikeways.
Maybe I shouldn't use that term right nowto confuse people with classes of bikes
and bikeways,but anyway, having protection,
(46:48):
the vertical physical barrierwhere you see the the plastic delineating
it can be any material thoughconcrete more permanent.
Those are those are being builtcurrently in the county right now.
There's one on Arden Way,which is a raised sidewalk level bikeway.
If you haven't seen it, it's just westof what avenue on Arden Way, I believe
(47:08):
there's class four bikeways going in onFair Oaks Boulevard near the pavilions.
Other projects that are that are fundedthat are upcoming.
These projects take a long time.
They require a lot of times grant funding,which is competitive as well.
But there's a lot of good work happeningout there trying to make more of it.
(47:28):
And yeah, if you have questions,you can come to.
Me and she'll be your afterwards too.
And I think, you know, Sacramento County,especially the unincorporated areas,
obviously the roadways that we havewere not designed for the level of traffic
or the type of usersthat we're seeing today. Right?
I mean, no one was driving an e-bike50 years ago in Fair Oaks.
(47:48):
And so now we're stuck.
We're faced with these much different usesof our roadways,
much more intense uses of our roadways,and how do we convert
those roadways to have more featuresthat are going to be safe for everybody?
There's a lot of those roadways.
It's very expensive to do that.
And some people would rather have us say,let's just repave all the roadways first
(48:11):
and then try to get the bells and whistleslater, right?
I mean, there'sthere's there's always a balance.
My focus is onhow do we get the competitive
grant funding to do those larger projectsalong the bigger commercial corridors
where traffic is going faster,and we want to have people and cyclists,
pedestrians and physically separatedbike lanes where they're safe,
where they can use them safely,but while at the same time trying to go
(48:35):
as far as we can with repavingthe other streets throughout the county.
But that is that is a huge challenge.
And Mackenzie will havewill be here to talk more about that.
Okay, here's here's a I want to give youa chance to respond to this.
The problem is not e-bikes,it is enforcement.
This is about the parkway.
Specifically, there's a 15 mile per hourspeed limit on the parkway.
Any competent bikerider can exceed that speed limit.
(48:56):
Whether you are a racer or a regular roadbike user,
a writer on a class one, 2 or 3 bike,it doesn't matter.
Please stop calling it a class2 or 3 problem.
It is a speed limit enforcement problem.
Why don't you address that? I,
as someone who's been on the bike trailmy entire life,
it is absolutely compounded by thepresence of the class two and three bikes.
(49:20):
But can you talk a little bit
about just speed enforcementin general on the Parkway Bridge?
Just it sounded like you said 50,but it's one, five.
15, 15. Yes. One five.
Is no, no.
Drive 50 on it.
Yeah. Thank you. So
sometimes they're in emergency situations.
(49:41):
That is the bikepath is sometimes the easiest way
to get to where we need to get to incase of water rescues and such.
So you will see us sometimes
going down the bike path at a good clip,but we're usually typically
conscientious about the folks around usand make safe passage through there.
With respect to enforcement,it's very difficult for us
to enforce a 15 milean hour speed limit on the bike trail
(50:05):
when we don't have the method,it means to do that typically CHP.
I was municipal officer beforeI came to work for the county parks.
A lot of times you have radar leader,something that you can,
you know, track someone's speed withthat will stand up in court
if you're going to give themthat citation.
Our problem is, is we don't havethose tools to be able to do that.
(50:26):
And we don't have peoplethat are certified in leader
or radar in order to go to courtand testify on those.
Now, do we make stops for peoplethat are driving or writing excessive
in excess of the speed limit? Yes.
Do we stop people or writingrecklessly on a bike pass?
Yes, we do an education piece on that,but we're not going to issue a citation
(50:46):
that we knowis not going to be enforceable in court,
or it's going to just immediatelyget thrown out.
That's a waste of the taxpayer's timeand energy, the Rangers time and energy.
So education, we default back to educationin that sense.
And just like therespeed limits on the roadway
and people violate them all the time.
People violatethe speed limits on our bikeway,
and we do our very bestto try to enforce that.
(51:08):
The bigger issue is not the bigger issue,but a component of the issue is now
you have the bicyclists are going,you know, in some more often than not,
the the pedal bicyclistsare a little more cognizant
of their safetyand the safety of those around them,
even if they're operatingat a little faster speed than the the what
we're seeing with the e-bikes and motosthat are jumping onto the bikeway.
(51:30):
And so
in the enforcement
aspect, it's difficult to enforcebecause we don't really have
we don't have the tools necessaryto collect the evidence
to present in courtfor a conviction on that violation.
But the violation does exist.
It's on the books,but we typically treat it as
an educational opportunity for our folksthat were contacted in the Parkway.
(51:51):
How can you get the toolsyou need to do that?
Typically that that would be brought?
Yeah, through a. Budgetary sources.
And, Liz, are there any engineeringmeasures on the parkway that, you know,
you've explored that might physicallyrequire people to slow down a little bit?
Is there is there anythingthat you've explored or looked at?
Yeah. Speed table like on the park.
(52:12):
I'm just curious, have you. Okay.
I already have a squirrel.
Yeah.
That's true. Okay. So this one.
So there's a questionabout like transportation funding.
I'm not going to get into that becausethis is about traffic safety specifically.
And because every yearI do a series of meetings
just specifically, specificallyon our transportation infrastructure.
(52:35):
Yes, we all know we have some of the worstroads in the state of California here,
which is why I do a lot of meetingson those in every part of district three.
So please,if you're not signing up for my emails
and my newsletter, please do thatso you can participate in those meetings.
Because I think they're valuable.
Here isand there's a couple of questions here
where people are just angryand sounding off.
And frankly, I'm not going to respondto some of these if you want to
(52:56):
if you want to come and talk to meone on one, I'm happy to talk to you.
Here's here's a new one.
Someone in ardent lives in Ardent Park.
They're seeing a lot more golf carts.
Can you.
And I think we're seeing them everywherein the unincorporated area.
Can you talk about the ruleswith the golf carts?
And some are driven by very youngchildren.
Are you seeing a problem with this?
(53:16):
And what are therules around the golf carts?
So I actually have not heard muchabout the golf carts.
There are designated areaswithin the state that I believe it's
actually allowed by the CHP commissioner,and I may be wrong there,
but there are designated areas that can beallocated to the use of golf carts.
If you're familiar with Rancho Marina,
(53:38):
that is one placethat golf carts are allowed
to be operated on the roadways,and you can see them drive in
from the communitiesto the grocery store and stuff.
That's actually allowed,and that's in code for that.
I'm not aware of any specificgolf cart incidences, and if they are,
golf carts cannot be on the roadwaysunless they're a dedicated area
like Rancho Marietta.So that would be a violation.
(53:59):
And obviously, if you are driving a golfcart on the I mean, you can't.
So there's really I mean, you can't.
So it wouldn't be an issueabout having a driver's license or not,
because you can't have them. On thereif they see it.
If you see a neighbor with one email, CHP
pop will come outand we will make make enforcement stops.
(54:21):
Description.
Get a location. And they will.
I mean, I don't know if you still do this,but you used to send a letter to people,
you know, hey, we have a report of unsafedriving a car registered you whatever.
There are differentthings that CHP can do.
But yeah, the bottom line is,if you're seeing it in these neighborhoods
like Arden Park,it is illegal, period, I think.
(54:43):
Yeah, I think I remember that RanchoMarietta is the only. Place.
The commissionerhas. The authority. They're the ones.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's good.
And there's a couple otherthere's a couple other specific things
in here about specificspeeding issues in certain neighborhoods.
CHP is going to be here after the meeting.
We're going to wrap up in a moment here.
They're going to be sticking aroundfor a little while.
(55:04):
But use that 250 pop at.
Because they will respond.
There are some very specific questionsin here about that.
Let me just make sure there isn'tsomething else I want to hit on.
There's a question here about, again,about kind of more of a public safety
trespassing issue.
If you see trespassing on a businesssomewhere, that's that's
(55:26):
the jurisdictionof the sheriff's department, primarily.
CHP does get involved in thatbecause they work
very closely hand in handwith the sheriff's department.
But I encourageyou also to look at SAC County
Sheriff's website and see when they do
public safety community meetings,they do those, I believe, quarterly
in different partsof unincorporated Sacramento County.
And they're very helpful.
(55:47):
Okay, so I'm going to stop here with this
because we're at a time, buteverybody is going to be sticking around.
I also want to thankthe Carmichael Recreation
and Park Districtfor letting us use your room.
You're there in the back.
So appreciateyou always being so accommodating.
Appreciate all of you coming out.
I think I might do maybe a followup on this, you know I don't know.
(56:09):
Would you, would you would
you want to see more of these meetingsto talk about these kinds of things?
Okay.
Sometimes it's hardbecause I'll do a meeting on something
that I think people are really interestedin, and five people will show up,
you know. So but this has been a good discussion. Okay.
You got. I'm going to let you take answerone question.
Then we're going to be done.
Okay.
The behavior isn't just children.
It's got adults.
Yes. Aggressively.
(56:30):
Oh absolutely. Yes. Yes.
So you can considerI don't know what public outreach
is going to be done to that.
And once education out
because there.
Yeah I think look there's athere's a remark
in here about Sacramento Countybeing one of the worst places.
And Jamie said the stats don't bearthat out.
(56:52):
Traffic safety is a problem everywherein the state of California.
It is not just in Sacramento County.
We have to apply the education,enforcement,
engineering and continueto have conversations like this.
A lot of the solution tothis is you reporting it to either
CHP for enforcement, US SACCounty for Dot, maybe engineering changes
(57:14):
that week we can make and also being muchmore involved in educational efforts.
So thank you all for being here.
We will all be sticking around for a while
if you have specific questions or issues.
So we were.
Thank you all for coming on aon a Monday evening.
We weren't sure how many peoplewere going to come to this.
We had been hearing in some of my my travels
throughout my district, in district three,had been hearing from folks from gold
River up to Foothill Farmsand Arden Arcade about traffic.
(00:20):
We always hear about trafficsafety concerns, right?
Which is what this is about.
But a lot of the complaintswere about e-bikes
complaints, but also questionswhat's allowed, what's not allowed.
Who has responsibilityfor enforcing the law about e-bikes?
What is being doneto improve the situation?
(00:40):
So that was kind of the genesisof this idea, to have a community meeting
specifically to talk about traffic safety,with an emphasis on e-bikes.
And it also got extendednot only to the Highway Patrol
because, as you know, they handleall the traffic related jurisdiction
in the unincorporated partsof Sacramento County.
My former colleagueshere, who I'll introduce in a moment,
(01:03):
but then also a lot of questionsand concerns about what's allowed,
what's not allowed on the American River,American River Parkway.
And so we have our regional parksdirector, Liz
Bellis,here with a sergeant acting commander.
Close enough.
Yeah.
Close enough
here to talk about specifically aboutwhat's going on on the Parkway
(01:26):
and some recent changesto our county ordinance
and some of the thingsthat are doing out there.
But I as aas a former member of the highway patrol,
traffic safety is obviously somethingthat was is near and dear to my heart.
And I've seen the impacts ofof what happens
when people are not drivingsafely, riding safely.
(01:47):
And I think we're all feelingsome of that in our communities.
And actually the the North DivisionCHP commander, Jamie Kenyon.
Jamie, Jamie, raise your hand is here.
So she is in charge of the CHP officeon Madison and date over here.
They handle almost all of my district,with the exception of Fair Oaks and
Gold River.That's handled by a different CHP office.
(02:08):
But Jamie and I actually workedin the highway patrol.
One of my last assignments wasas the legislative liaison for the CHP.
And that was about, what, ten years ago?
And that was about the timethat the legislature was making
a lot of changes in the lawrelating to electric bicycles, mopeds,
motorcycles, essentially allowinga lot of different modes of transportation
(02:32):
that had not previously been allowedunder the California Vehicle Code.
And I remember as the CHP ledge guy,I was, Jamie and I went and got into
a lot of meetings with legislatorsand the governor's office about,
okay, what is what does the Highway Patrolthink about this?
How is this going to work?
And one of our concerns all along was,hey, if you are legalizing
all of these things without appropriateguardrails, it's going to cause some
(02:57):
confusion by by the users, by the parentswho are buying them for the users,
certainly by people in the communityand for law enforcement agencies.
And that's that's I think, whatwe have been seeing over the years,
after we hear from from Jamie
and Liz Bellisand our parks district commander,
Ranger commander, I'll talk a little bitabout some of the legislative efforts
(03:20):
that are ongoing.
And I know some ofyou may have some other insight
about some of the legislationthat's being pursued to address the issue,
but this is not strictlylimited to e-bikes.
So I want to be clear about that.
We are what we're going to do tonightis because we do have a large crowd,
we're I'm going to ask you
if you have a comment or a question,put it on a one of these note cards.
(03:41):
And Vanessa from my office, I haveVanessa, Kendra, and Iris from my office.
They have cards.
If you want to ask a questionor make a comment
that just that's a way to kind of keep,
I think, the conversation moving betterand avoid some redundant questions.
If I have two questions
about the same thing,
I'm just going to obviouslygoing to ask one of them,
and I'm going to try to group themtogether when we get to the Q&A portion
(04:03):
to make sure that we're,
you know, talk about the e-bikes,and then if there's other traffic
safety related issues,we can talk about that.
I also want to recognize Mackenzie.
Where are you? Raise your hand.
So we have Mackenzie McKenzie,one of our principal engineers at
what is it senior o senior seniorsenior planning engineer
from our Department of Transportationhere.
I'm not going to put Mackenzie on the spotnecessarily to come speak up here,
(04:26):
but it is true that a lot of our traffic
safetymeasures are not just about enforcement.
When I was in the CHP, we hadit was kind of the three E's enforcement,
Engineering and enforcement,engineering and education.
Education is a big part of it,but so is engineering.
And engineering could be everythingfrom how the roadway is designed,
(04:47):
what kind of traffic signals
you have, what kind of markings you have,you know, speed bumps.
Lori, where are you?
Back there somewhere. So.
So Mackenzie's here also to to maybeanswer some questions if those come up
and also to take notes about issuesyou're seeing in your neighborhood.
So the way this is going to gois I'm going to first I'll go to Jamie
(05:09):
Captain Kenyon
here to talk about kind of the role,what you're seeing, what you're doing.
And then we'll hear from from Lizand our Ranger commander
about that very thing,and then we'll move into Q&A.
So thank you again for being here.
I think based on just this turnout,we may do another one of these
at some point, maybe later this summerif we can, we can squeeze it.
(05:32):
And I try to do a lot of these communitymeetings on on different topics,
but this is clearly onethat is important to all of you.
So with that, Captain Kenyon,I'll give you the floor and you're going
to need to use the microphonebecause the room goes way in the back.
Do you want all your all your folks uphere?
Yeah.
You're coming up
in case there's something that comes upthat they know a lot more than I do.
(05:54):
So again, I want to echowhat Supervisor Desmond has said.
Thank you very much for being here.As you said, my name is Jamie.
I'm the captain commanderof North Sacramento area.
And again, we're in chargeof all the traffic responsibilities
in unincorporated SAC County,which includes bicycles and the like.
So what we wanted to do
(06:14):
is just kind of give a quick overviewon the bicycles themselves.
There's a lot of confusion onwhat's a class one, what's a class two,
what's a class three.
So I want to kind of givea quick crash course in that.
And then if you were able toI only made 50 copies.
I apologize, but I can
I can email this to youif you guys want to stick around
and give me your email addressso that you can have access.
This is something that my officeput together.
(06:36):
Actually, Sergeant Reed is responsiblefor putting this document together to
kind of give a
dumbed down version of some of the lawsthat we deal with
quite frequently to make it more easyfor parents to understand what's going on.
So classone bicycle A class one bicycle is
your your regular pedaled bicycle, right?
(06:57):
It's only going to go up to 20 milesan hour, and it's the pedal assisted.
A class two bicycle can be eitherpedal assisted or throttle,
so a class two bicyclealso can only go up to 20mph, but
a rider can write it with just a throttleso they never have to pedal.
And that bike only can go up to 20.
(07:17):
Now, class three is wherewe're seeing a lot of
the dangerous activitiesthat are coming around.
So the class threescan go all the way up to 28mph.
So on some of these residential streetswhere the speed limit is 25mph,
you have
bicyclists that are easily able to exceedthe posted speed limit for vehicles.
(07:38):
So a class three bicycle that goes up to28mph will not have a throttle.
It is clearly pedal assisted,but by using that pedal assist,
it generates enough wattageto get the bicycle up to 28mph.
So some of the thingsthat are also important for class threes
is that you have to be 16 years oldto ride them.
(07:59):
So if you are under 16,you cannot ride a class three.
So you have to be 16.
And everybody, even adult,have to wear a helmet no matter the age.
So those are some of thethe big differentiations between
the the bicycle classes.
One second.
(08:25):
So I wantedto just touch on a few of the stats.
Orange County is doing an excellent jobof trying to gather
all the statistics that go aroundwith the injuries that we're seeing,
and this is for preventableinjuries to children.
So we're looking at under 18 years of old,under 18 years of age.
So Davis have UC Davis has taken thatinformation and kind of made it their own.
(08:47):
So I'm just going to give you some stats.
And this is specific to UC Davis.
And these are injuriesthat they're seeing.
Again they're all preventable.
They're all e-bikes or e-scooters.
And they are they capturepeople who have come to the hospital
for treatment and been released are peoplethat have been hospitalized.
So the stats that we're missing are peoplethat have been injured that just did
(09:09):
their own treatment at home, individualsthat went to an urgent care
or individualsthat went to their primary care physician.
So all of those arenot included in these stats.
So in 2025, in Sacramento,
falls are still the number one for at UC
Davis that people are seeing with injuriesto kids down in Orange County.
(09:30):
The number one injury re bike crashes.
So that hasn't gottenthat far up here yet.
But e-scooter so falls.
We had 600 that were seen at UC Davis.
E-scooters accounted for 79 and e-bikesaccounted for 68.
The majority of all of these kids
are 14 years of age,and they're mostly men males.
(09:53):
So three out of every four riders aremales that are being hurt, and almost
the majority of them are right around 13or 14 with the majority of 14.
And that's consistent up here at Davisand consistent
down in Orange County.
So I know
I've touched a little bit on the e-bikes,but also the e-scooters.
If you see a lot of if you're downtownor a more populated area,
(10:16):
you see a lot of those lime
scooters, the the green and white onesthat you can just rent and ride around.
So those are also illegalfor anybody under 16.
You have to be at least 16 to ride those.
So we're I'm going to turn itover to the sergeant here.
And he's going to touch on
some of the efforts that the CHP officersbehind me here that you see are doing.
We're going out to schoolsand we're actually walking
(10:38):
superintendentsand principals through their bike line
so that they can be like,hey, that's illegal, that's illegal.
They can't have that.
They can't have that, because if they'reunder 16, they can't have those scooters.
So you have parents that don't understandthe rules
that are buying these for their kids,and they can't even be on them.
So we're trying to do a concerted effortto educate the public
and educate the parents.
(10:58):
And so I thank Supervisor
Desmond for having this meeting,because this is where it all starts.
The more education we can get out there,we can prevent some of these injuries
because we all havea shared responsibility,
whether we're bicyclists or workersor we're pedestrians.
So we want to make sure that we understandthe laws that are out there
and understand what we can and can't do.
I see your hand and I'll get toyou just real quick.
(11:20):
The last thing before I turn it over isI want to touch on the E motorcycles.
So that is probably the the number one
problem we're seeing in my officeare the E motorcycle.
So these are just the electricmotorcycles.
These are absolutely illegalto ride on any street anywhere.
They cannot be registered by the DMVand they are not street legal.
(11:41):
And the problem isthey're all kids on these.
And then when we try to pull them over
and take any kind of enforcement action,they often run from us.
So we're getting into pursuitswith these motorcycles with 13 and 14,
and we actually had a 12 year oldthat ran from us,
and we don't knowwho's on this motorcycle.
We just pull them over to educate them.
(12:02):
We're now beginning to impound these,so if we pull them over and catch them,
we're taking them.
So it's going to cost Mom and Dad moneyto come get them out of impound.
But the first and foremost, we wantto educate so that they understand that.
So we don't ever get to that point.
Go ahead sir.
Just wanted to askwhen it comes to crash, have you looked
at the Transportation Institute reportthat came out late last year?
(12:24):
I have not.
Okay.
We're going to do questions.
We're doing. Questions on a car. Okay.
But e-bike crashes are half of
what e-scooters are 5 to 6 timesless than analog bike crashes.
We really want to do more.
Okay, well, we'll keep moving on.
I did want to point out one thing before.
(12:44):
So this sheet that I handed off,we've already had two mistakes
that were pointed out to us.
So if you look on class three
e-bikes and e-scooters,we have on here that yes,
you can use those on a classone bike path.
So our Sacramento County have actuallyby ordinance not allowed that.
(13:05):
So that's another thingthat we'll have to update on here.
So what we're going to have to do,
depending on where you liveand where you're writing,
you need to make sure you checkwith your local ordinances
and make sure that there'snot a local ordinance that prohibits this.
So the class three e-bikeand the e-scooter
are not allowed to be used on a classone bike
(13:25):
on the American River Parkwayby by local ordinance.
So I want to turn it over to SergeantGreg Reed again.
He's a sergeant in our office,
and he oversees our problem orientedpolicing team.
Great. So before you walk away.
Can I ask. You. A question?
If someone has now, did not everybody.
Got a copy of this chartshe's referring to?
Correct something.
Not we'll make we'll get more copiesand we can.
(13:47):
I don't know how we can link that.
Vanessa, if you want to get a okay.
We do have another chart hereon the table.
It doesn't have all.The information. Yours does.
But I think. You've.
Mentioned either OTS or on a website.
Where can people find more informationlike this.
So again I'll give you an email addressthat we'll be able to send this to
that you can get this whole packeton the very last page.
(14:10):
There's a QR codeand we'll stick around after.
If anybody wants to come and snap a pic,this is actually going to take you to
CHP e-bike bicycle Safety and Training.
So this was
a legislatively required classthat they asked the CHP to come up with.
So that number one,we can educate the public on e-bikes in.
This was several years agowhen they were coming out
(14:30):
quite faster than the lawcould keep up with them.
And then also for kids that get cited,this is one of the things
that they have to do to basically
get rid of the ticketis that they have to attend this class.
So they have to go on and take this classand in an educational safety class.
So again,that's the QR code on the back page.
But I'll make sure everyone has thatbefore we leave today. Yep.
(14:55):
Hi Sergeant.
Gregory, CHP North Sacramento.
I'm in charge of our pop team.
These are my pop officers behind me.
What we do as the pop
teams, problem oriented policingwere your police force basically.
So Sacramento CHP is very uniquehow that we have more unincorporated area
than pretty muchany other CHP office in the state.
And with that, you guys have uniqueconcerns and issues that come up.
(15:19):
And the number one complaint we have fromyou guys right now is the e-bikes.
So with that, any complaints,you have our email to directly come to us.
And myself and my three officersall have access to this email
that we checkat least three times a day is
250P op 250 pop at CHP.
(15:44):
That goes directly
to us and we are very responsive on it.
We Monday through Friday,we try to get back to you within hours,
if not sooner.
So any concerns you have, whetherthey're e-bikes or traffic or pedestrians
or panhandlers, please send those to usand we will respond to you.
And also along withif you did not get a packet today,
(16:06):
email that email and we will get you oneright away through the email.
So some of the efforts
we're doing to combat the e-bikes,excuse me, the e-bikes right now
are we are actually working with oh,
it's 250 pop.
So it's 250 pop at CHP gov.
(16:29):
So we're partnering with schoolsspecifically right
now, San JuanUnified and other neighboring schools.
And we are actually going to the schoolsand pointing out to the teachers and the
administration of what's legally allowedand what's not allowed at the schools.
The biggest one people do not knowabout is the e-scooters.
People are buying thesefor their children,
(16:49):
and you are not allowed to be on one
unless you're 16 years of agewith a driver's license.
I know the San Juan Unified SchoolDistrict Board recently,
they were surprised to learn that,and there had been
a couple of themhad purchased them for their children,
and they were shocked to hearthat information because they had no idea
that wasn't allowed.
So that's one that's the biggest partwe're doing right now is education.
(17:12):
We also try to do as much enforcementas possible,
but as the captain alluded to,it can be very tricky because
the last thing we want to do isget into a high speed chase with a 13 year
old or 14 year old,and for them to run a stop, sign
with us and next thingyou know, we're taking it to the hospital.
So we have to weigh those odds infor the betterment of everybody.
(17:36):
And so sometimes we just have to notchase them, try and track them down later.
We have done that work
with the schools to identify the children,and it's worked quite well.
But we have caught severalthrough pursuits
and luckily so farevery one of them has ended safely.
That's our biggestgoal, is the safety of everybody.
That is the one reasonwhy we're focusing on the e-bikes
(17:59):
is because these childrenare going faster than ever now,
and when they do crash,they're getting seriously injured.
I've been to multiplejust in the past month
to where these childrenhad major injuries.
And so, yes, sir,there might be other things
that you're seeing more crashes from.
But these e-bike and e-scooter collisionsalso actually
(18:20):
causing the most injuries to children.
So that is one thingthat we're focused on.
And one thing we want to combatis the children with these scooters.
My pop team, you guys have any questionsor anything you want to put out?
I do want to say one more thing. So.
What we'reseeing down south, I don't know.
And I apologize
if it has happened up here,but in Southern California, the Das down
(18:43):
there are now starting to charge parentswith some of these crimes.
So it's only a matter of timeif it's not here,
that it will eventually come up here.
But it has become such a prolific problemwith the e-bikes and the e-scooters
and the pedestriansand just being responsible,
shared roadway users that the parentsare being charged for child
endangerment, child neglect, contributingto the delinquency of a minor.
(19:06):
So just keep that in thought to.
So. Email address one more time.
250POP at CHP
gov 250 pop at gov.
And I will attest to the factthat there are very responsive
(19:29):
and whether it's e-bikesor someone speeding in your neighborhood
blowing through a stop signin your neighborhood, it's
they'll they will they will get on it.
They will go out thereand do some targeted enforcement.
If you can get a license plate, maybe an identification
of the driver location, time of day,day of the week.
That's always really hopeful as well.
But but use them. People don't.
(19:50):
The squeaky wheel gets the grease.
You've got to report this stuff.
And the CHP,we just had a meeting actually,
Senator Nealand I just hosted a meeting with the CHP.
Legislative lights onand someone from their division
that oversees Jamie's office and others asking for more enforcement
in these unincorporated areas
because it is not historicallybeen a priority for the highway patrol.
(20:12):
But they all do a great job, and they getsick and tired of hearing from me.
I want them to hear fromyou as well in your community.
So thank you.
And a lot of the questions I have herewill be talking about.
We'll be following upon some of the things they brought up.
But before we do that, because
it bleeds into some things on the Parkway,I want to now turn it over to Liz
Bellis, our regional park director,Sacramento County Regional Parks.
(20:35):
Thank you for beinghere, Liz. You're welcome.
Come on up.
Good evening everyone.
I see a lot of familiar facesin the audience.
So hello.
Nice to see you all. Yes.
We have done some additional changesto our county parks ordinances,
which also can be adopted
by your local park districtsif they so choose, just FYI.
(20:59):
So what we have done,they will be going into effect on June
12th of this yearand we have changed the what can happen.
So rather than just being infractions,they can also be up to a misdemeanor
if the conditions warrant.
So that is for anyone who is usingan illegal e-bike, an emoto or a modified
(21:25):
illegal bike on our park system,it can be up to a misdemeanor.
We're also using that to address
some of the damagewe've seen to our natural areas, where
we've had folks that are buildingbike jumps and other things
and destroying our natural resources, sothat, again, can be up to a misdemeanor.
And also our golf courses
(21:47):
and our sports fieldshave been getting some damage.
Again, that's a brand new ordinance,but we're trying to address
that, that problem.
Additionally, we have a partnershipwith our Department of Transportation,
Department of Public Health,and First five, where we're working
on developing some educational materialsfor for kids and for parents.
(22:09):
That will be a little bit more fun,
if you will, to try and really get thatmessage home again, emphasizing
on what is allowed, what is not allowed,and to really get the kids educated
and the parents educatedso they're keeping their kids safe.
With that, I'm going to turn itover to commander, see if you want to add
(22:30):
anything to what we're doing.
It's rough going to be the last person.
Usually everybody saideverything that needs to be said.
So all I can echo is the same thingsthat the captain mentioned from CHP,
except we're experiencingthose same issues in our parkway.
And so we are addressingthose as we come across them.
We have had situationswhere we already have impounded motos
(22:53):
and some of the illegally modifiede-bikes.
They are not allowed in the parkway.
So we are taking enforcement action,and we're looking for opportunities
to potentially partnerwith our CHP law enforcement
friends to
conduct enforcement actionsin the Parkway, because
as much as it's problematic on the street,it's as problematic in our parkway
(23:16):
because you're having basicallyyou have vehicle bicycle interactions.
We're having pedestrian, bicyclists,bicyclists, bicyclists interactions.
And people end up getting hurtjust as bad, if not worse in our parkway.
So we are actively looking for those folkswho are violating the rules.
And as Director Bellis mentioned,now we have a little bit more of a hammer
(23:36):
if need be, in a form of it's
not just in a fractionlike a traffic ticket,
it could actually bea misdemeanor offense.
So we're looking forwardto taking more progressive and
proactive action in the Parkwayto keep everybody safe.
Thank you.
So stick around here, Jamie.
You too, because we'll start with the.
(23:58):
Questions in a moment.
So if you look at this chartit tells you right here
I mean you can see how confusingthis whole legislative scheme is
because you have differentclasses of bikeways, which gets confusing.
All these different classesof vehicles, electric vehicles
that can be used in different places.
And it's you can seewhy it's a struggle for enforcement.
(24:21):
It's amazinghow many local enforcement agencies,
whether it's city
or the highway patrol or park rangers,they get confused about this
because it's relatively newand it's inherently confusing.
I did have a chance to talk today.
I looked at some of the legislationthat is that is going through the process
right now.
(24:41):
There's about four billsthat are still alive.
I hear maybe
two of these may end up becoming law,and they kind of nibble around the edges
a little bit, but they accomplisha few different things.
I think one of them that is probablythe most promising is I'm going
looking at my notes,because I had a discussion,
long discussionwith the legislative director
for the California League of Citiesand the the one that's probably
(25:05):
the best is to reclassifysome of these electric bikes to to require
more consistency in terms of registrationand licensing and manufacturer liability.
We are seeing some manufacturersgetting sued by people,
and some of these lawsuits have beenmaking their way through the process.
And actually, I was told today,I don't know if this is true.
(25:26):
If you've seen this,it's hard to buy some of these,
depending on the class, even on Amazonanymore.
It's not as easy to get them as it.
It was kind of the Wild Westfor a few years, and I think,
I think both third party sellersand manufacturers are realizing
that they have some, some real liabilityconcerns with these things.
There's another bill that would,would require or allow only one writer
(25:49):
on these these devices or vehicles,depending on which class it is.
There was
there was one that would standardizethe equipment that could
that has to be on each one of them.
And there is another billthat would require specific training
for use of these, because right now,I don't think there's
any legislatively mandatedtraining for any of them.
(26:11):
When you first by one of these,one of these bikes.
So that's that's something to to consider.
I'm also told that the law does allow
local jurisdictionsto impose some regulatory measures.
And I'm told Orange County is the entirecounty is pursuing an ordinance right now.
I don't know if that's unincorporatedcounty, frankly, or, or or
(26:31):
it would would apply to the entire countythat would not allow anybody 12
and under to have use any of thesewithin the jurisdiction.
So local local municipalities, counties
and cities are startingto pay more attention about this, to this.
They're all struggling with withhow to address it.
But I think, you know, hopefully we'll seewhat the legislature can come up with.
(26:53):
So I'm going to gothrough these questions.
Vanessa, let's not collect anymore becausewe're not going to have enough time.
I have too many questionshere. Most of them are about e-bikes.
So I'll try to keep all those together.
And then we have a few other outlierquestions that kind of go beyond that.
The first one I know we havedo have some young people in the audience.
And this is a question, Jamie,
you alluded to itwhen you talked about pulling people over.
(27:14):
How will you how will you stop
under 16 year olds from buying and writing
on theclass three or an E motor on the streets?
I'll let you respond to this.
I mean, buying them.
I don't know if there's anythingyou can do specifically.
But so.
The biggest. Push right nowis education, right?
(27:34):
Because the kids that are that youngprobably aren't buying them themselves.
They're getting them as Christmaspresents,
birthday presents, and their parentsor a loved one is buying it for them.
So we're trying to educate thoseindividuals so that they know what's safe
and what's legal for the childrenthat are out there.
It's kind of a lotwe hear a lot about if it's illegal,
why are they allowed to sell it?
(27:55):
And the biggest analogythat I can use is like window tint, right?
It's not illegal to buy window tint.
It just can't be on specific windows.
So the same thing, it's not illegalto buy these e-bikes.
They just have to be used appropriately,responsibly and by the right individuals.
Okay. That's good.
And you know don't go too far.
(28:17):
So you talked about this.
I want you to flush it because there werea few questions on this.
And maybe someone wrote them downbefore you went over it.
But the question about wired driver'slicenses,
why are driver license is not requiredfor class one, 2 or 3 e-bikes?
That's not the case. Go over thata little bit more.
What are the driver's license requirementsfor the different class of of vehicles.
(28:38):
So I'm going to have Sergeantcome up here with me too
because I know he does a lot with this,
but you have to have a driver's licenseto operate in e-scooter.
So if we're talkingabout the class of bicycles,
you don't need a driver's licensefor the class of bicycles.
You do once you get to an e-scooter.
Yes. Like lime.
That's that's the biggest that everyone'sfamiliar with in this area are the lime.
(28:59):
But you also there's, you know, onesthat they sell at Costco in Walmart
that are the bigger it'sbased on the wattage of the motor.
And those are all driver'slicense required.
Regardless of how fast it goes, if it's
if it's powered by electricityor a battery because they're everywhere.
Yes, driven by small kidsand they have to have driver's licenses
(29:20):
by California law.
So and that also includeslike those little hoverboards.
So those aren't as prevalentas they were several years ago.
But the littlewhere you just stand on them
and you use the forward or backward motionto turn.
Those also now require a driver's licenseand a lot of the legislation.
I know it's really confusing,
but technology is so much fasterthan our legislative process.
So all of this stuff is coming out fasterthan we can keep up with it.
(29:43):
So that'swhy these pages look like they do.
And there's all these different charts,because it's really hard to
to manage thisand make sure everyone stays safe.
So we're we're just trying to stay upwith technology and it's very fast.
So that would includeelectric skateboards.
Yes. Electric skateboards. Same thing.
You see these boards with one wheeland then you see electric skateboards
where someone is just maybe holdinga little remote control.
(30:06):
They have to have a driver's license.
Yes, sir.
And by definition, if they're under 16.
They. Can'tthey cannot have a driver's license.
Yeah. So. So. Right. Yeah. No.
Obviously
technologyworks much faster than our legislators.
Okay, Jamie,if a child is writing his e-bike,
his or her e-bike through traffic,breaking several laws
(30:28):
and does not stop,what would happen if you saw him?
If he was seen by one of your officers?
Juvenile?
If a child? Yes.
What is our recourse if what isand then what is the public's recourse
if they see that happening?
And someone said it just happened today
at Oaks and Landis right heredown the street.
So we have a couple different optionsthat are available to us.
Officersare given a great leeway of discretion,
(30:50):
and we allow themto take a couple different.
They can absolutely right the childa citation, but basically when they write
the citation, they're going to label itas a parent's responsibility.
So when it comes to the office,there's a letter that I write that
I send out to the parents,which basically tells them
that on this day, at this time,we stopped your child.
This is what we had.
(31:11):
The officer sometimes will take the childto the house, you know,
walk the child to the houseat their nearby
and talk to the parentsand educate the parents.
Most of the timethe parents don't even know.
So it's just taking that extra effort.
We aren't in the businessof going out there and finding kids
and writing citationsand trying to hit them financially.
We just want everybody to be safe,
and especially with the pedestriansand the cars and the bikes.
(31:34):
Even if a bicyclist is not at fault,if they're in a collision,
especially with a motor vehicle,they're going to be hurt.
And that's what we're trying to to avoid.
So okay, here's a question.
Some of these are a little bit redundant.
Or Jamie already covered it.
But class two bike can be modified to60mph faster or to go faster than 20mph.
(31:54):
They're sold at 20,but then can be reprogramed to 40mph.
What do you do in that situationand why is this not?
Why is this notconsidered an E motorcycle at that point?
So some of the modifications that they dowill make this an E motorcycle.
So as soon as you it's really unfortunatebecause you can go watch a five minute
(32:17):
YouTube videoand be able to modify these to go 60mph.
So it's really kind of scarywhat's out there right now.
But as soon as it's modified,it's illegal, right?
Like any kind of those modifications wipesit off.
And I know, Greg, if you want to talk toany more about that.
So yeah, basically the second is modified.
It becomes an E motorcycleand no longer meets
the requirements for the classone or class two or class three.
(32:39):
And so then you have to have a driver'slicense.
You cannot be on the roadways has to be onspecial designated areas only,
almost like an offhighway vehicle at that point.
So they just can't the second or modifiedyou're off the road.
But again, for us it's hard to determinewhich are modified and which or not,
because we might see them going18 miles an hour.
(33:00):
That thing really goes 60.
We would have no clueuntil we see them going faster.
There's a couple of questions hereabout and again,
this is this all speaks to the confusionabout the about this legislative scheme.
A couple questionsabout the pedal operations and what what
e-bikes is, are pedals optional
and wherewhich bikes are pedals required?
(33:24):
I mean, if I see something with pedals,is it automatically an e-bike?
And if it doesn't have pedals,it's an E motorcycle.
Kind of talk about thata little bit. Absolutely.
For your bicycles, obviouslyyou have your traditional bicycle.
We all know, like whata traditional bicycle.
All bicycles are going to have pedals.
If the petals are removedthen they're no longer an E bicycle.
They have to have pedals.
(33:44):
The difference is a classone is a pedal assisted up to 20mph.
So that's as fast as it can go.
And it kind of gives you a little bitof a boost when you do your pedals.
A class two you don't have to pedal.
It has a throttle,usually a thumb throttle, and that still
tops out at 20mph.
So on a class two,you don't have to pedal.
(34:05):
You can just throttle it up to 20mph.
A class three does not have a throttle,but it can go pedal assisted up to 28.
So trying to make thisas easy as possible.
They all have pedals.
They all are pedal assisted.
One and two go to 20.
Class three is go to 28.
(34:25):
What else did I miss.
So I'mtrying to make that as easy as possible.
So the only one that you don't have topedal that will still go is or class two.
And anything modifiedthat makes it in that cycle.
And those are unable to be registeredwith the DMV and makes them
absolutely illegal on our on our highways,pathways, sidewalks, everything.
Okay now?
(34:46):
We had to give a chance to Lizand the sergeant or the commander here
to weigh in the question.
This question is about it on the leveeswhere motorized
vehicles of any kind, including electricbikes, are prohibited without a permit.
Can you talk a little bit about that,that prohibition is that from the county?
Is that from the flood control district?
And talk about enforcement a little bit.I know you touched on it.
(35:08):
Can you talk a little bit about about whatyou're seeing on the tops of the levees?
So the,
the tops of the levees are not actualbike.
Trails themselves.
And sobut we know that people are out there.
They're using them.
And the different agencies,the different flood control agencies
have different feelings on whether or notyou should be on the levee tops.
(35:30):
Some of them are kind of okay with it.
Some of them absolutely say,no, you shouldn't be on them at all.
But it's not somethingthat we're out there enforcing
as far as telling peoplethey're not supposed to be on there
because people are recreating on themwith bikes and pedestrians as well.
So then, Liz,would that be, you know, already
(35:50):
1000 is has jurisdiction over those?
I mean, who would handle who who would bethe primary have primary responsibility
for enforcement there.
Could could CHP.
Enforce on the top of a levee?
They could we could also enforceif if the agencies reached out to us
and said, we want you to strictly enforcethe levee tops
and not allow anyone on them,we could enforce on that.
(36:11):
So it's already 1000.
It's AmericanRiver flood control district.
Suburban doesn't have any levees,but there's a few different agencies
that that have leveeswithin the American River Parkway.
And and I will follow up with them.
Will you take a note about that?
Vanessa, already 1000 in the
(36:32):
other other American River floodcontrol district.
Okay.We talked a little bit about education.
Can you talkyou talked about what San Juan is doing.
What about other schooldistricts and educational efforts
to educate people in their studentsand their parents about the rules
and other educational efforts
throughout the state, whether it'sOTS or go ahead, you can start locally.
(36:55):
So like I said, wewe do have a public outreach campaign
that we're working on right nowthat we will be getting out to.
It'll be targeted towards parentsand to students.
Look for that probably late this summer.
Again, we're trying to design it.
It'll be social media.
(37:16):
So we're we're developing.
Like I said, it's going to looka little bit less governmental,
if you will, no offense.
So that it'll hopefully appealto the younger generations
and also to the parents.
So they can kind of relate to it
and they can bring something outand show their kids.
So we're working onit'll have a nice logo, a look and feel
(37:38):
consistent that we can bring out toeveryone and put up signage in our parks.
And that type of outreach and education.
So some of whatwe're seeing with our school districts is
they are looking to actively bancertain class of bikes
from even being on the school grounds.
They have that authorityand they've had meetings.
(38:00):
I know recently we went and spoke at oneSan Juan Unified School District,
basically because
just trying to educate them as well, andthey wanted to input from law enforcement.
But I know there are schools in PlacerCounty.
I can't remember
which ones off the top of my head,but they're just outright banning
the e-scooters and the class three bikes,and then they're only allowing
(38:21):
certain onesso that they don't even have to
to deal with the kids and not beingon the right bicycle and not being safe.
How about asOTS, the state Office of Traffic Safety,
do they have any grantfunded educational programs?
So we do have a bicycleand pedestrian safety grant
(38:42):
that we are allocated through OTS that'soperated out of our headquarters office.
So usually we get involvedbecause we're allocated certain hours
that we can go out and do.
And we did a couple of weeks agowhen we opened at Fulton El Camino Park,
a shared roadway space.
Some of that grant moneywas used on that project.
But we do have where we go outand try to do these.
(39:02):
We call them rodeosjust to try to teach bicycle safety,
pedestrian safety, and then alsothat shared roadway responsibility.
And then we also OTS grantfunds, helmets.
So we're able to go out and we properly fit people to their bicycles,
whether you're an adult or a child,
so that you knowthe proper alignment of the bike size.
And then also if you don't have a helmetor if you need a new helmet,
(39:23):
whether you're a child or an adult,we'll properly fit you with a helmet
and give you one for free,courtesy of grants from OTS.
I have something else to add,
but I wanted to recognizewe have at least one member.
More than that, I think of our AmericanRiver bike patrol here in the audience.
And so they have an MoU with us.
(39:43):
They do patrol on our trail system,but also state
parks, and I believe in El DoradoCounty as well.
Yes. And.
So they have greatly expandedtheir volunteer efforts.
And so they are a great partner with us
as far as educating peopleout on the trail system.
(40:03):
And you also have events occasionallywhere you're
fitting kids with helmetsand giving those out for free as well.
Those helmets are donated by UC Davischildhood home.
So I didn't want toI didn't want to leave them out.
Good.
Thank you, Liz, forand thank you for the work you do.
And it's all volunteerbasis and it's invaluable
(40:23):
and kind of more dangerouswith the climate we're talking about.
You know, so much of this is boilsdown to the parents.
And you mentioned some prosecutorsactually going
after the parents for child endangermentand things like that.
Have you seen that in Sacramento County?
Because I do want to follow upwith our community prosecutor
about that very thing.Have we seen that here?
I have not, but I'm I mean,there may be some that I'm not aware of,
(40:47):
but there's been severalpretty notable cases down south, and one,
unfortunately led to the deathof a veteran, an 81 year old veteran
that was hit by a kid, and his motheris being charged with manslaughter.
Okay. All right.
So this is this is a comment about twoe-bikes have hit someone while walking
on the bike trail, once on the leveeand once on the on the trail itself.
(41:09):
So obviously,I mean, you're hearing about it.
It's a huge, huge concernon the American River Parkway as well.
Okay.
Here's a question here about SAC County
adopting the same ordinanceas Marin County that class two e-bikes
with throttle or throttles are classifiedas E motos and class twos.
Anyone over 16 years old, 16 yearsonly for people over 16 years old.
(41:33):
After helmets for all ages.
So something I'm going to hold on to thisand follow up on it, because I mentioned
what they're doing down in Orange County.
I'm going to follow up with our countycouncil about what what else we can do
locally, not just along the parkway,which is exclusively SAC County,
but something else we can maybe do Countyin the unincorporated parts
of Sacramento County.We would not be able to.
(41:55):
I don't think we would be able to regulatewhat they do within any of the cities,
but we certainly could do it within theunincorporated areas of Sacramento County.
But that's somethingI'm going to follow up on.
What are some of the good local ordinancesthat have been adopted to
maybe address some of the challengesthat we're seeing on our roadways?
Okay.
This is I don't know if
this is a good question about this being,you know, a national issue.
(42:18):
What are we.
What are we seeing from other communities,not just in California,
but nationwideand maybe in other countries?
Are we seeing some any innovative thingsthat maybe we haven't tried here or
should be trying?
I'm not sure
about innovation, but I was on a callwith the National Recreation
Park Association, and it was a good hourand a half where we spoke
(42:42):
park districts all over the country,and they're all facing the same issue.
So we were lookingat some of their education materials
to see what we could glean fromand borrow.
But I wouldn't say thatthere's innovative ideas.
I would say that it is a nationwide issuethat people are trying to address
and recognize the fact that it needsto be addressed as soon as possible.
(43:03):
Does any of that say thatthose that were looking?
I don't think.
I'm going to.
So she asked, is any of that addressthat the bicycle is a deadly weapon?
Not to my knowledge,but as far as the charges
that are being filed, the one specificallyin orange, I apologize.
I don't know if it's Orange County,I just know it's Southern California
(43:25):
is where the child had already been talked to
for by law enforcement for drivingrecklessly on his on his e-bike,
and the mother was made aware on bodycamera that her son was driving recklessly
and she could be held accountableif something happened.
And then fast forward a couple of months,he hit and killed an 81 year old veteran,
and so they actually are chargingthe mother with manslaughter
(43:48):
because they can clearly showthat she had knowledge,
prior knowledge
that her son was driving recklessly andthat it could hurt somebody, which it did.
It took this man's life.
So I have not seen anythingabout a deadly weapon, but they are.
I mean, those are pretty serious charges.
I think, you know, litigationis going to drive a lot of the policy.
I think, in terms of thethe limitations on what can be done.
(44:12):
I do know also there are effortsand discussions about
as part of the legislative proposals,how do you really require these e-bikes
to have very, very clear identificationabout what
bike it is, what it's supposed to be,and have parents have to
maybe sign somethingif they buy a bike for a minor
(44:32):
that discloses the dangers of these bikes,and if it's misused,
and that they'll be held responsible
for any injuries or property damagethat happens as a result of it.
Things are being pursuedin that vein as well.
So okay,
okay.
Clarification I'm going to skip that one.
(44:54):
Skip this one.
Some of these I can't read very well.
Let's let's move off e-bikes for a moment.
And talk about some other other trafficsafety
related issues, because obviously there'sa lot of traffic safety related
things that are that are not just causedby e-bikes or emotes.
(45:17):
Okay?
That one's about trespassing.That's not it.
So let's talk about
this is speeding.
This is let's talk about engineeringand whether SAC County
has any plans to increasebike lane Witts widths
or provide other safe surfaces and curbsbetween cars and bikes.
(45:39):
Now, McKenzie, can you I canI can comment on this a little bit,
but I don't know if you want
to make a statement about Dotand what some of the things we're doing
to have more physicallyseparated bike lanes.
Yes. I don't know
how much you want me to say, but.
(46:01):
Come on up.
Use the microphone.
On email.
Hi, I'm Mackenzie Clark.
I'm a senior planner, not an engineer,but I do know my way around
making concept plansfor bicycle pedestrian infrastructure.
And I'm within the alternative modesgroup at Dot.
So I specifically focus on bicyclepedestrian related projects,
(46:24):
consistent with the county'sgoals of safety for all road users.
Right.
There's a lot of great projectsthat the county has currently
being constructed and upcoming to include
the protected bikeways or classfour bikeways.
Maybe I shouldn't use that term right nowto confuse people with classes of bikes
and bikeways,but anyway, having protection,
(46:48):
the vertical physical barrierwhere you see the the plastic delineating
it can be any material thoughconcrete more permanent.
Those are those are being builtcurrently in the county right now.
There's one on Arden Way,which is a raised sidewalk level bikeway.
If you haven't seen it, it's just westof what avenue on Arden Way, I believe
(47:08):
there's class four bikeways going in onFair Oaks Boulevard near the pavilions.
Other projects that are that are fundedthat are upcoming.
These projects take a long time.
They require a lot of times grant funding,which is competitive as well.
But there's a lot of good work happeningout there trying to make more of it.
(47:28):
And yeah, if you have questions,you can come to.
Me and she'll be your afterwards too.
And I think, you know, Sacramento County,especially the unincorporated areas,
obviously the roadways that we havewere not designed for the level of traffic
or the type of usersthat we're seeing today. Right?
I mean, no one was driving an e-bike50 years ago in Fair Oaks.
(47:48):
And so now we're stuck.
We're faced with these much different usesof our roadways,
much more intense uses of our roadways,and how do we convert
those roadways to have more featuresthat are going to be safe for everybody?
There's a lot of those roadways.
It's very expensive to do that.
And some people would rather have us say,let's just repave all the roadways first
(48:11):
and then try to get the bells and whistleslater, right?
I mean, there'sthere's there's always a balance.
My focus is onhow do we get the competitive
grant funding to do those larger projectsalong the bigger commercial corridors
where traffic is going faster,and we want to have people and cyclists,
pedestrians and physically separatedbike lanes where they're safe,
where they can use them safely,but while at the same time trying to go
(48:35):
as far as we can with repavingthe other streets throughout the county.
But that is that is a huge challenge.
And Mackenzie will havewill be here to talk more about that.
Okay, here's here's a I want to give youa chance to respond to this.
The problem is not e-bikes,it is enforcement.
This is about the parkway.
Specifically, there's a 15 mile per hourspeed limit on the parkway.
Any competent bikerider can exceed that speed limit.
(48:56):
Whether you are a racer or a regular roadbike user,
a writer on a class one, 2 or 3 bike,it doesn't matter.
Please stop calling it a class2 or 3 problem.
It is a speed limit enforcement problem.
Why don't you address that? I,
as someone who's been on the bike trailmy entire life,
it is absolutely compounded by thepresence of the class two and three bikes.
(49:20):
But can you talk a little bit
about just speed enforcementin general on the Parkway Bridge?
Just it sounded like you said 50,but it's one, five.
15, 15. Yes. One five.
Is no, no.
Drive 50 on it.
Yeah. Thank you. So
sometimes they're in emergency situations.
(49:41):
That is the bikepath is sometimes the easiest way
to get to where we need to get to incase of water rescues and such.
So you will see us sometimes
going down the bike path at a good clip,but we're usually typically
conscientious about the folks around usand make safe passage through there.
With respect to enforcement,it's very difficult for us
to enforce a 15 milean hour speed limit on the bike trail
(50:05):
when we don't have the method,it means to do that typically CHP.
I was municipal officer beforeI came to work for the county parks.
A lot of times you have radar leader,something that you can,
you know, track someone's speed withthat will stand up in court
if you're going to give themthat citation.
Our problem is, is we don't havethose tools to be able to do that.
(50:26):
And we don't have peoplethat are certified in leader
or radar in order to go to courtand testify on those.
Now, do we make stops for peoplethat are driving or writing excessive
in excess of the speed limit? Yes.
Do we stop people or writingrecklessly on a bike pass?
Yes, we do an education piece on that,but we're not going to issue a citation
(50:46):
that we knowis not going to be enforceable in court,
or it's going to just immediatelyget thrown out.
That's a waste of the taxpayer's timeand energy, the Rangers time and energy.
So education, we default back to educationin that sense.
And just like therespeed limits on the roadway
and people violate them all the time.
People violatethe speed limits on our bikeway,
and we do our very bestto try to enforce that.
(51:08):
The bigger issue is not the bigger issue,but a component of the issue is now
you have the bicyclists are going,you know, in some more often than not,
the the pedal bicyclistsare a little more cognizant
of their safetyand the safety of those around them,
even if they're operatingat a little faster speed than the the what
we're seeing with the e-bikes and motosthat are jumping onto the bikeway.
(51:30):
And so
in the enforcement
aspect, it's difficult to enforcebecause we don't really have
we don't have the tools necessaryto collect the evidence
to present in courtfor a conviction on that violation.
But the violation does exist.
It's on the books,but we typically treat it as
an educational opportunity for our folksthat were contacted in the Parkway.
(51:51):
How can you get the toolsyou need to do that?
Typically that that would be brought?
Yeah, through a. Budgetary sources.
And, Liz, are there any engineeringmeasures on the parkway that, you know,
you've explored that might physicallyrequire people to slow down a little bit?
Is there is there anythingthat you've explored or looked at?
Yeah. Speed table like on the park.
(52:12):
I'm just curious, have you. Okay.
I already have a squirrel.
Yeah.
That's true. Okay. So this one.
So there's a questionabout like transportation funding.
I'm not going to get into that becausethis is about traffic safety specifically.
And because every yearI do a series of meetings
just specifically, specificallyon our transportation infrastructure.
(52:35):
Yes, we all know we have some of the worstroads in the state of California here,
which is why I do a lot of meetingson those in every part of district three.
So please,if you're not signing up for my emails
and my newsletter, please do thatso you can participate in those meetings.
Because I think they're valuable.
Here isand there's a couple of questions here
where people are just angryand sounding off.
And frankly, I'm not going to respondto some of these if you want to
(52:56):
if you want to come and talk to meone on one, I'm happy to talk to you.
Here's here's a new one.
Someone in ardent lives in Ardent Park.
They're seeing a lot more golf carts.
Can you.
And I think we're seeing them everywherein the unincorporated area.
Can you talk about the ruleswith the golf carts?
And some are driven by very youngchildren.
Are you seeing a problem with this?
(53:16):
And what are therules around the golf carts?
So I actually have not heard muchabout the golf carts.
There are designated areaswithin the state that I believe it's
actually allowed by the CHP commissioner,and I may be wrong there,
but there are designated areas that can beallocated to the use of golf carts.
If you're familiar with Rancho Marina,
(53:38):
that is one placethat golf carts are allowed
to be operated on the roadways,and you can see them drive in
from the communitiesto the grocery store and stuff.
That's actually allowed,and that's in code for that.
I'm not aware of any specificgolf cart incidences, and if they are,
golf carts cannot be on the roadwaysunless they're a dedicated area
like Rancho Marietta.So that would be a violation.
(53:59):
And obviously, if you are driving a golfcart on the I mean, you can't.
So there's really I mean, you can't.
So it wouldn't be an issueabout having a driver's license or not,
because you can't have them. On thereif they see it.
If you see a neighbor with one email, CHP
pop will come outand we will make make enforcement stops.
(54:21):
Description.
Get a location. And they will.
I mean, I don't know if you still do this,but you used to send a letter to people,
you know, hey, we have a report of unsafedriving a car registered you whatever.
There are differentthings that CHP can do.
But yeah, the bottom line is,if you're seeing it in these neighborhoods
like Arden Park,it is illegal, period, I think.
(54:43):
Yeah, I think I remember that RanchoMarietta is the only. Place.
The commissionerhas. The authority. They're the ones.
Yeah, yeah.
So that's good.
And there's a couple otherthere's a couple other specific things
in here about specificspeeding issues in certain neighborhoods.
CHP is going to be here after the meeting.
We're going to wrap up in a moment here.
They're going to be sticking aroundfor a little while.
(55:04):
But use that 250 pop at.
Because they will respond.
There are some very specific questionsin here about that.
Let me just make sure there isn'tsomething else I want to hit on.
There's a question here about, again,about kind of more of a public safety
trespassing issue.
If you see trespassing on a businesssomewhere, that's that's
(55:26):
the jurisdictionof the sheriff's department, primarily.
CHP does get involved in thatbecause they work
very closely hand in handwith the sheriff's department.
But I encourageyou also to look at SAC County
Sheriff's website and see when they do
public safety community meetings,they do those, I believe, quarterly
in different partsof unincorporated Sacramento County.
And they're very helpful.
(55:47):
Okay, so I'm going to stop here with this
because we're at a time, buteverybody is going to be sticking around.
I also want to thankthe Carmichael Recreation
and Park Districtfor letting us use your room.
You're there in the back.
So appreciateyou always being so accommodating.
Appreciate all of you coming out.
I think I might do maybe a followup on this, you know I don't know.
(56:09):
Would you, would you would
you want to see more of these meetingsto talk about these kinds of things?
Okay.
Sometimes it's hardbecause I'll do a meeting on something
that I think people are really interestedin, and five people will show up,
you know. So but this has been a good discussion. Okay.
You got. I'm going to let you take answerone question.
Then we're going to be done.
Okay.
The behavior isn't just children.
It's got adults.
Yes. Aggressively.
(56:30):
Oh absolutely. Yes. Yes.
So you can considerI don't know what public outreach
is going to be done to that.
And once education out
because there.
Yeah I think look there's athere's a remark
in here about Sacramento Countybeing one of the worst places.
And Jamie said the stats don't bearthat out.
(56:52):
Traffic safety is a problem everywherein the state of California.
It is not just in Sacramento County.
We have to apply the education,enforcement,
engineering and continueto have conversations like this.
A lot of the solution tothis is you reporting it to either
CHP for enforcement, US SACCounty for Dot, maybe engineering changes
(57:14):
that week we can make and also being muchmore involved in educational efforts.
So thank you all for being here.
We will all be sticking around for a while
if you have specific questions or issues.
Popular Podcasts
Hey Jonas!
Hey Jonas! The official Jonas Brothers podcast. Hosted by Kevin, Joe, and Nick Jonas. It’s the Jonas Brothers you know... musicians, actors, and well, yes, brothers. Now, they’re sharing another side of themselves in the playful, intimate, and irreverent way only they can. Spend time with the Jonas Brothers here and stay a little bit longer for deep conversations like never before.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
Betrayal Weekly
Betrayal Weekly is back for a new season. Every Thursday, Betrayal Weekly shares first-hand accounts of broken trust, shocking deceptions, and the trail of destruction they leave behind. Hosted by Andrea Gunning, this weekly ongoing series digs into real-life stories of betrayal and the aftermath. From stories of double lives to dark discoveries, these are cautionary tales and accounts of resilience against all odds. From the producers of the critically acclaimed Betrayal series, Betrayal Weekly drops new episodes every Thursday. If you would like to share your story, you can reach out to the Betrayal Team by emailing them at betrayalpod@gmail.com and follow us on Instagram at @betrayalpod and @glasspodcasts. Please join our Substack for additional exclusive content, curated book recommendations, and community discussions. Sign up FREE by clicking this link Beyond Betrayal Substack. Join our community dedicated to truth, resilience, and healing. Your voice matters! Be a part of our Betrayal journey on Substack.