February 13, 2025 • 31 mins
Today’s episode with Adrian Chapman outlines two distinct hiring strategies in the freight market - maintaining current growth levels and preparing for potentially explosive growth!
Adrian joins us to discuss the hiring trends in the transportation business, the importance of character and personality in recruiting, advocating for the development of clear KPIs and SOPs for new hires, and the value of leadership in shaping company culture, encouraging leaders to actively participate in all roles within their organizations and prioritize talent development!
About Adrian Chapman
Adrian is the founder and CEO of Cover 3 Consulting, a recruiting firm that focuses on the transportation and logistics industry since 2019. He also is the founder and host of the “Recruiting Stories” podcast which has interviewed leaders around the country about how recruiting has impacted their journey.
An athlete his whole life, Adrian Chapman learned the value of recruiting early. Adrian was a college football and track athlete graduating from Minnesota State University and had a chance to compete with the United States Bobsled team’s developmental squad. Competing with world class athletes taught him that it takes more not just passion to win at a high level, but unparalleled talent.
With 10 years of experience recruiting and a lifetime of competing, Adrian’s goal is to help transportation organizations build championship teams for a higher purpose.
Connect with Adrian
- Website: https://cov3consulting.com/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/achaps/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm getting to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the blame moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger balls.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hey what is up ladies and gentlemen? We are back. We are live. It is a freight coach podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central to break down some industry headlines. But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen. And I say that before every single show. What I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve.
(00:59):
So you can take that information, apply it, utilize it and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. Happy Thursday, everybody. I got a very special guest for you guys. I'm going to bring him up here in a second. We're going to be talking about hiring trends, what's going on out there in the market, what are people looking for, what are people avoiding like the plague as well in regards to roles. But before we do that, you guys, hey, I'm going to say this literally every single show because I want you guys to get into our newsletter. All right? It's once a week we talk about obviously industry related stuff. Rates, where are rates, trending, some market data, fuel prices, all of that stuff is in there. It's all action packed and it's all.
(01:38):
If you go to our website, thefraycoach.com it will auto prompt you to register. As always, I do not just auto sign people up. The people have spoken. They all said they hated it. And I won't do that to any of my contacts in there. So if you want to go to it, go to the freecoach.com it'll auto prompt you to sign up. But with that being said, you guys, let's talk recruiting, let's talk hiring. I got my good friend Adrian Chapman on the show back on the show. It's been a long time. Adrian. Adrian, thank you so much for joining me, though.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, no, glad to be here, man. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
No, let's do it. And so, dude, you've been out with COVID three consult. I mean, for a long time now, man. I mean, I think when I first started creating content back in like 2000s, when we first connected, which is crazy because it's five years ago at this point, but. Dude, how long. Yeah, how long have you been out on your own like that for?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah, so I've been. Been in it for six years on my own now, but you know, been. Been in transportation recruiting now for over 10 years and like you said, feels like yesterday on one end, but feels like the world's turned upside down. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Twice over.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah. Pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So, dude, what's been going on out there, man? Like, it's. I think this year is like. I personally don't think there's going to be any drastic changes in the overall freight market as a whole. I think that it's going to be eerily similar to 2024. I think there will be some small changes, but I don't think there's going to be anything drastic that happens. But you know, at the end of the day, I think there's a lot more. I, I will say this. From my cold calling, prospecting, everything I'm doing out there, the shipper sentiment is definitely a lot more positive right now than it was in Q4 of 2024. There's a lot more. I would say there's more optimism now. That does not mean that there is a shitload of opportunity, that they're signing everybody up. None of that.
(03:34):
But there's a definite tonality shift out there. How are you preparing with some of your clients right now? Are they looking to invest in that or are they still kind of in like a holding pattern?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, great question. So I'd mirror that to answer in, you know, with who we work with. Right. You know, freight broker, freight forwarder, transportation tech, you know, distribution, warehousing, all of that. Generally the sentiment right now is better than it was last year. If you look at the data though, the numbers, I would say that not all that different. Like you could look at like the Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers for January came out and they're like slightly up, you know, from I guess December, but maybe they're down from a year ago. But if you look at pre pandemic numbers, they are higher. Right. So there's more jobs in this space now. Now if you look back to 2022, 2023, like we've dropped significantly. Right. That's why you're seeing Things like the layoffs and a lot of the merger and acquisitions business happening.
(04:42):
But then, I mean, we lag, you know, freight demand, consumer demand. And so if you look at any data points there, you know, tender rejection rates or, you know, whatever. The thing is, we're still kind of here, right? We're still kind of here. And I can, I could post a chart after, afterwards here, but like, generally it looks like there's like a slight upward trend. You know, is that due to, you know, new presidency in office? Is that due to, you know, post holiday kicking up a little bit? Is that due to consumer sentiment? I'm not sure. That doesn't mean we're going to keep going up. Might stay here and we might stay status quo for the rest of the year. So to answer your question, there's kind of two paths that I see people taking. One is, what's our status quo growth plan?
(05:30):
Right, Our consistent growth plan that we're staying on to continue to grow, to do what we've done, to grow in a healthy way. And then the other one is, what if things do explode? What if happened some of these consumer sentiment is upswings, you know, whatever, there's peace over in Europe, in the Middle east and whatever, suddenly things change. Well, then we have kind of this plan where we're talking about, all right, we've got kind of that second hiring plan that we've talked about and you know, hey, maybe we need to go out and hire, you know, 10 enterprise people. We need to hire a VP of sales. We've kind of got two plans is what I'm seeing with people. And I would encourage you, if you don't have a plan for both sides of that, to think through that.
(06:15):
If you're a transportation organization, I, I.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Think that, do you see more people are, you know, by this, I mean, my companies are less likely to pull the trigger and more likely to invest in technology. You know, like, I have a lot of, like, I just had Paul Singer with fleetworks on yesterday and, you know, we had a really good conversation. I know a couple of guys who are using that. They're like massive fans of the platform. But, you know, I, I also know a lot of people in the industry who are like, no, man, I want real people doing that stuff out there. Are, are you having those, is that kind of a thing that's going on right now where people are coming to you like, hey man, why don't we just invest in AI, in, in doing that?
(06:57):
Or are they more like, hey, we still want people, we want people banging the phones, showing up at places. Is that, are you hearing that out there at all?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah. I mean, and I would say, like, if my role is kind of like what I would consider a growth advisor for an organization. You know, there's the old good to great example of like fire bullets before cannonballs. So my answer is try it like, you know, don't go drop the farm on an AI tool that you don't know if it's going to work for your organization. Make sure you've got your blocking and tackling down for, you know, somebody hitting the phones, you know, operating freight, moving freight, whatever that is, make sure your blocking and tackling is down. But go spend a little bit of money on AI. Embrace AI and think about if I had a really productive guy or gal who could, with an AI tool, double their performance, why not try that out?
(07:59):
Because that could, I think that is who is going to take over and be the most effective for their shippers in the coming five years.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, I, I think that, you know, I've been, obviously I read a lot outside of all of this stuff. I listen to a ton of podcasts and one of them, so I'm a big fan of the founders podcast and that one all. There's like a couple of growing trends on that where a lot of them say like they want to run as lean as possible from a headcount perspective. Like they want people to work hard from that regard as opposed to bloating with headcount. And then it just. Because like a lot of what I heard is like if there's too many people, it's laziness because then there's two people doing one job and I think like building a team out now going forward.
(08:50):
And granted a lot of the strategies and stuff on that show is from a lot of the pre Industrial revolution style companies and stuff like that. So there's obviously a lot of differences, but like, at the end of the day, nothing has changed from the perspective that like hard work is always going to win. And I look at it as like, as somebody who is in the beginning stages of like, hey, we want to build, like we're going to build a team, right? But it's like we also, my business partner and I have came to the conclusion, like, we have way more bandwidth that we can play with before we're even going to consider hiring anybody.
(09:23):
And I think that, you know, with what is out there from a tech perspective, like, I, and I literally said this yesterday, and I'll say this every single day. I will never have cap commissions for my sales reps because, like, I want to arm them with the right technology to where it's like they can do 50 loads in a day and everything else. And then we can utilize automation on the back end to where it's like, you know what? We don't need an actual person making 100 check calls every single day now. Right? Like, there's ways to do it, there's ways to automate that, and then we can hire the right people. Because, I mean, how many times in your career, Adrian, have you seen companies say, hey, we need 40 people, but then only they're only really looking for 10.
(10:05):
And now I'm thinking, like, with the way things are going, like, people can be a lot more selective on who they bring on so they can hire the right 10 and then not waste all of that capital.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah. I mean, obviously, like, any hiring plan, there's going to be some level of, we know attrition happens, right? Not everybody's going to make it. Freight and transportation is hard. You know, whatever the situation is. But like you said, if we can allow people to onboard and be more effective faster and we can shorten that Runway for them to be productive and profitable, that's what every company owner, every executive that I talk to, if they could shorten that time to profitability, everybody is going to do that. Not just simply for profitability sake, but because it's better, right? Like, it's better for that person, it's better for your customers. So why not invest in technology or processes that can help us better?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Do you think that people should be investing more in training and development right now and then utilizing that? Because, like, you know, again, I'm always like, trying to think, like, how do we have the best stuff available? So, like, when people can come in, you know, again, it's not the. Necessarily we want them to be profitable. Day one, that would be phenomenal. But like, at the end of the day, I want to have the right tone, the right culture. I want to have all of that set up to where it's like, when people come in, like they're set up for success, right? And I know that a lot of companies out there say that, but I also look at, like, what are some of the foundations that you've seen with some of your people that are like, hey, this is a successful onboard, right?
(11:48):
Like, this is what they do. They have a training platform. It goes a couple of weeks or whatever that looks like.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah, yeah. Short answer is yes, I do think more companies do need to invest in training and development. I think the problem is there's a chasm between what training development is and has been and then what an owner executive wants to invest in. And the problem is that learning and development, from what I've seen historically, tends to be something that's more like, this is fun and this is how we make it exciting. And this is, you know, something that's just like, you know, we want to make people feel warm and fuzzy. And that is what sometimes these companies, these executives feel like, man, am I wasting my time with that? I just want to see somebody can be productive right now.
(12:34):
So we have to close that gap of like, yes, some of that's important, but also what are the boots on the ground things that can help people be effective from day one? And that starts with recruiting. Saying what is effective or what are the goals for this person that they must achieve to be successful in their first 90 days? Like that needs to be discussed. Like when I'm talking to somebody and I'm recruiting them, they need to know, how am I effective? What are my KPIs and SOPs that I'm that within 30 days I need to know and be able to do this. If that's not being discussed, that's a problem. And then beyond that, if I don't know how to do that needs to be discussed in the interview process. How can I get up to speed to be taught those things?
(13:17):
Guess what? Technology is a great way to help get me up to speed. And if then you could have some kind of learning and development, either person or program that can then close and shorten that gap and speed that person up, that's even better to help them launch quickly and effectively. And I think you'll know quickly. If someone's in a rigorous learning and development program, you're gonna find out really fast if they're allergic to the phone or whatever the situation is. And you can move off of them.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
How do you think, you know, like, what are some of the things now that. Because like, I look at it as when I'm bringing on people, I almost want to go more towards non experienced than experienced. Right? Because I want, I, I just, you know, fundamentally, man, I want people who aren't afraid to pick up the phone, you know, and I'm not going to sit here and say that we're just going to do email and everything else. Like, I want that and I all. But I also don't ever want somebody to come in and try and rely on past success. Right? Because I feel like there's a big difference between a hunter and a farmer. And I feel like there's a lot of farmers that are out there who are great and valuable to organizations.
(14:28):
But I feel like there's a gap between an actual sales rep, a business development rep, and an account manager. And I think, like, ultimately you need to be prepared that, like, you know what, like your book of business won't come. And I feel like I wish more companies out there were more realistic and learned. Like, hey, I don't care about the accounts that they may or may not have worked with. I want this personality type because I need people. And I see, you know, I, I, some of my friends out there, I won't name their companies, but they're like very, very, very large. Right? And their leadership still makes cold calls every single day. And that's the tone. He's like, we don't have problems with people picking up the phone because we all pick up the phone. We all do it.
(15:13):
And like, they're not naive to think, like a book of business is transferable. Do you think, like, there's a, there's still a massive misconception out there. We're like, hey, we want this $100,000 a month book of business to come and be planted here and then be profitable right away. But we also want them to make cold calls. We also want them to do this.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And this and this short answer is, yes, I do think that we are shifting now. There's not a company that I speak to, and I speak to companies weekly who are like, hey, we want right now, everybody wants great sellers, proven or good sellers, which makes sense for the market that we're in. Well, if you talk about the book of business side of things, like it is harder and harder to get something like that to come over and to move. Does it happen sometimes? Yeah. Is it really hard? It's really hard. Is it possible? Yeah, but it's really hard. So, you know, you have to look at, there's different ways then to create revenue. And one is finding proven people like we just talked about. That's really difficult. Two is developing people maybe outside of the industry who can do it.
(16:22):
Three is mergers and acquisitions. Maybe I'M buying another agency or transportation company and plugging them into my business. And, you know, there's attrition there, but with that middle one, I think there's a ton of opportunity that's missed because sometimes it takes time. They're the reason I, from a transportation sales standpoint, I recruit from a. From a character traits, personality traits standpoint. Often we recruit a lot of former college athletes, military people who have been in a rigorous program where they have gotten kicked in the teeth over and over, and they've had to prove discipline over and over. And that could be anything. That could be music, that could be something.
(17:02):
I mean, that could be a lot of different things, but you want to find someone who has done that and they have said, hey, I'm going to get back on the saddle every single day, and I'm gonna learn from it. I'm not gonna let it define me. How can I improve off of that? That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
No, no, it makes perfect sense. Right? Like, I want people with that confidence because, like, at the end of the day, man, I like, I want somebody who's gonna come in and be like, dude, I'll make 50 cold calls every single day for you until we get this up and running, and then I'll continue to do it. Right? Like, it's just that mentality that comes along with it because. Guarantee out there, right? But, like, I just look at it like this. Fundamentally, man, there's only one thing I cannot teach somebody about transportation, and that's the ability to have a work ethic. Like, either you have one or you don't, you know, and we want people to go out there and really, like, I just look at it as, like, I want those individuals who are. Yeah, man, I've been doing this for 10 years.
(17:59):
I'm still not afraid to make cold calls. Like, I'm not looking for that out because I feel like there's a lot of individuals. And I know I was at that point once as well where it's like, hey, I'm just going to do this until I get to a certain point. Then I'm looking to coast with a. With a couple of customers, you know, But I feel like if you're going to, like, I want to see more companies actually define what a sales rep is, business development rep, and then an account manager, and then look for both, right? Because you can't have both. You can't have somebody who's willing to go out there, develop business, go knock on doors, make cold calls, and Then manage an entire book of business. I think there's two completely separate roles there.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
I, I 100 agree with you and I'm curious on your thoughts on this because, like, a lot of times when I'm recruiting, you know, whether it's an enterprise role or a, you know, mid level role for sales or even a leadership sales or sometimes I'll get leadership sales roles and you know, I want to know if someone's been doing it because to me, like, I'll go back to my sports example. Like, I don't. I was a college football coach for a couple years when I got done playing and it didn't do it for me. Like, it was fun, but like, I enjoyed playing so much more than I enjoyed coaching.
(19:08):
And I'm not saying one is wrong, but I'm saying for me, it also, like, if I tried to go back and coach now, I wouldn't be a very good coach because I haven't played or coached in years. And so I think the same could be said. Someone's been out of it for a long time and you haven't actually produced anything for years. How do you really know how to coach? Well, and for me, why would you not want to say, man, put me in. Let me go, you know, be the tip of the spear. Let me go make some calls. Like, I want to do that. Like, I don't, I'll never not do that because I enjoy it too much. I enjoy being a part of that process.
(19:49):
So I'm curious for you, like, you have you kind of in building your business, do you see traits that translate more than others when it comes to, to sellers or to freight professionals?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I think that there's a, a very discernible difference between a quality coach and a quality player. Right. Because I'm right there with you, Adrian, where it's like, I, I don't want a sales leader air quote on my floor that is afraid to do the job that they're supposedly supposed to be coaching. You know, and I think, like, that's what you see out there is because, you know, dude, I, I will be one of, probably the only people to admit this publicly. Developing business is hard. All right? The rejection that comes along with it sucks. I will admit it. I'm not going to try and put myself on a pedestal and oh, it doesn't, it affects me. This is how I support my family. All right? So it is very personal for me.
(20:48):
But at the end of the day, man, when you're a sales leader, you have to lead from the front. And that is one thing that my business partner and I, we will continue to do. We are going to lead from the front. I can resonate with people like if we hired people, like if we had the revenue that came in and we could hire 10 people today. Adrian, there is nothing that any one of them are going to do that I don't know how to do or my business partner doesn't know how to do. I think that's what makes a quality organization. Now, granted, there's different scopes and sizes of companies out there. I don't ever want somebody who's an air quote, VP of whatever inside of my company that won't walk the walk.
(21:29):
That's the culture and the tone that I'm looking to set. I know it's doable because I know some very large companies out there that do that. Right. The president of the company of a multi billion dollar corporate brokerage at this point still makes sales calls. That's the tone that I want to set out there. Now, I think, like, but ultimately though, just because you're not afraid to pick up the phone and do it doesn't mean that you should be doing it every single day. Maybe your skill set is to train and develop talent, right? Like you look at a guy like a, you know, a Bill Belichick, Nick Saban, why are they quality leaders out there? Because they don't accept mediocrity. All right, Nick.
(22:08):
One of my favorite lines out there from a guy like Nick from It was from Nick Saban is we don't practice till we get it right. We practice till we don't get it wrong. And that is where I think a lot of sales reps are misled, is because they're out there practicing to get it right a couple of times. They're not out there practicing and living that day in and day out. And that's why I said that there's a very discernible difference between a sales rep and an account manager. Because if you want a killer, if you want a straight up savage out there developing a book of business, they don't want to sit behind a computer all day and manage freight, all right? They want to go out. They want that hunt. That is where like that's my love is building. All right?
(22:51):
I don't want to sit back and manage. I hate managing, all right? I want to go out there and build. I want new opportunities. I want to go pound the phones. I want to get out there in front of people. And I feel like that is the type of individual that we need and that a lot of organizations are looking for, but they don't want that. And I think though that like some people think when they get into leadership, that's when they can coast. You're like, I got the 200k salary now. I got the office. I'm going to go in and shut the door and then I'm going to fire off emails to the people on the front lines. Why aren't your call volumes up? Why aren't you this?
(23:28):
I'm the type of person where I'm like, if you're telling me what to do, why the aren't you doing it?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
That's also why I work for myself because I cannot take orders from somebody who's not willing to do the work well.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And you go back to the Belichick and the Saban example, like, yeah, and those guys, they know what good looks like because they're talk about work ethic. I mean nobody's working harder than those. Nobody's there before them. Nobody's staying later than they are. And, and they're deep into the film. They know what, they know what excellent looks like more than anybody in the world because they've seen so many reps. They can coach on that all day because they're deep, deep into it and they're willing to walk the walk.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah. And I think like that's another thing too man. Is, is you can't. And again, I'm not perfect. I'm not going to try and sit here and say that I am. But you can't expect your team to do shit if you're not willing to do it. If you're coming in later, like I'm, dude, I just like one of my biggest pet peeves when I worked for somebody is why the do I need to be here at 6am but you show up at 8, you know, why do I gotta stay till 5? But you leave at 3:30, go yourself.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
You know, I feel like. And, and, but again, back to your saving and Billicheck thing. That's why they were successful because they were there first and they stayed last.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
No matter what. And, and that's the type of tone and culture that I'm looking to build inside of my company. And I'm not going to sit here and say that's going to be every day. Yes. I'm, I'm a father. I'm like I have a life. There's going to be times.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
But I want, and I think like, this is what a lot of leaders out there. You should, if you want your team, set the tone. You're the leader.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah. You set the expectations. Yeah, we all need margin in our lives, but we also have to have expectations on what good looks like. Right. And if we, and I mean, we go back to recruiting like we talked about earlier, if that can't be defined from the get go and I don't know, you know, if we're not constantly saying, hey, here's where I need to be and why I need to be there and I, I'm not given the tools to get there, well, then, you know, if I don't know what good looks like, then that's my fault as a leader. If I didn't set you up for success. But if that is set, then there's no excuses for not achieving that. If I've got the tools and I know how high to jump.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
No, I'm right there with you, man. And I think like, there's a lot where it's like, you know, I don't necessarily need or want the most talented player. I want the best right player for the system, you know, and I think like, that's another thing too. We can go on for hours and hours about this is how many companies don't actually have a system. Their air quote system is here's a couple hundred companies dial, you know, and that's where it's like, I'm very fortunate to have the business partner that I do because, like, we built out an entire training platform for carrier sales, customer sales. Like, our whole thing is, man, is we are going to develop talent. All right?
(26:21):
Like, we are going to set the expectations, we are going to develop talent, but we're going to be out there leading from the front. You know, it's going to be as simple as that. There's not going to be a job inside of my company. And this is just something that I, you know, maybe it's just the Midwest in me, man, at the end of the day, but I don't ever want to have a role inside of my company that I can't physically do myself. Like, I just feel like I'd be failing as a leader. Like when we own, like when we buy trucks one day and we have trucks, I'm gonna get my CDL at that time, right?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
You want to know how to do that?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, exactly. I want to be Able to do that. Right. Like, I've already loaded trucks, but I'm gonna, once we have warehousing, I'm gonna get forklift certified and I'm gonna load trucks too. Just because I feel like at the end of the day, man, that's the system and that's the culture. And the tone that I want to set is I want to be able to say that I can do every job. I might not be the best at it, but I want to say that I can do it. And I want to be able to resonate with people, though, because I feel you're building a team and you're developing talent. When I can resonate with that sales rep who's just been told no for six straight months, like, hey, man, I've been there. This is what we've done.
(27:26):
And then, like, you can go back and you can go through, like, hey, this is what worked for me. Right. Like, this is the stuff that I listen to outside of work. These are the books that I read. And then they're going to see me actively doing it because, like, I think, like, it just brings a different level of respect from the team. Right. And I know that this is all perfect scenario style right now, but I, I would argue that more people than not are not walking the walk that they're preaching that you should be doing out there inside of an organization.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, well, and, and that's, I mean, the thing you're talking about here is culture, right? Like, at the end of the day, like, and I know culture is like a buzzword everybody talks about, but culture is the difference maker in so many transportation organizations. And it's palpable, like the bet, the places where we place people and they go and they succeed. And these people are winning great recruits and great people and winning bids and, you know, tons of freight. Culture is very different. Right. And a big part of that is, you know, I'm walking, I'm watching that person above me walk the walk. They believe in me, and they're giving me the tools that I need to get where I want to go. Therefore, we are getting to where we want to go.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yeah. And I think, like, that is one thing where I feel like, say 2025 doesn't improve as a freight market. Right. I do not hope that's the case. But ultimately, what are you going to do this year to invest in capturing the market shift when it actually happens? Are you going, you know, and I think, like, that's the thing Instead of looking externally, what can you work on today? Internally, what can you do to prepare yourself for that? So when people come in. Because again, if you're shuffling through people, eventually you got to look in the mirror and be like, maybe it's me, maybe it's not everybody else out. Because I. I can guarantee you this. Not everybody sucks. All right? Like, not everybody sucks.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Man. Well, dude, I appreciate it, Adrian. Thank you so much for joining me today. How does anybody reach out to you? Maybe people are looking for talent. They're looking for anything. How do they reach out to you to find out more about what you got going on, man?
Speaker 3 (29:34):
First of all, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it a ton. Was. Was fun. We'll do it again sometime, hopefully have you back online. But yes, if you want to reach out to me, I'm on LinkedIn. Adrian Chapman, if you want to go to our website, check it out. Www.cov3consulting.com Would love to say hi to you.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Perfect. I appreciate it, man. If you guys can't find Adrian for whatever reason, hit me up. I'll gladly put you guys in contact with them, but that's going to be it for today, you guys. We got a guest coming on for tomorrow. As always, if you guys got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show. If you're feeling really ambitious, I can't even speak because I went to public school. If you're feeling really ambitious, which you should be, rank the show as well, you guys, on itunes and Spotify, because if you saw value, that's what's going to get it out there so your network can see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys, and we'll be talking to you soon. I love it.
Came back with a bank window down yelling now money anything hey oh got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when I'm getting to the back hey Got the foot on the gas pedal to the metal when the blame moving fast hey Let them all cross if they hate then let them made them make a bigger balls.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Hey what is up ladies and gentlemen? We are back. We are live. It is a freight coach podcast, the top podcast in transportation coming to you guys every single weekday, 8:30am Pacific, 10:30 Central to break down some industry headlines. But most importantly, you guys provide some actual insight into what you can do with all of this information. If this is your first time tuning in, welcome. This is the real side of freight, ladies and gentlemen. And I say that before every single show. What I mean by that is I only speak with transportation professionals because at the end of the day, you guys, I want to talk to the right individuals who have done what you're looking to do or who are currently doing what you're trying to achieve.
(00:59):
So you can take that information, apply it, utilize it and see a meaningful difference in your business and your life. Happy Thursday, everybody. I got a very special guest for you guys. I'm going to bring him up here in a second. We're going to be talking about hiring trends, what's going on out there in the market, what are people looking for, what are people avoiding like the plague as well in regards to roles. But before we do that, you guys, hey, I'm going to say this literally every single show because I want you guys to get into our newsletter. All right? It's once a week we talk about obviously industry related stuff. Rates, where are rates, trending, some market data, fuel prices, all of that stuff is in there. It's all action packed and it's all.
(01:38):
If you go to our website, thefraycoach.com it will auto prompt you to register. As always, I do not just auto sign people up. The people have spoken. They all said they hated it. And I won't do that to any of my contacts in there. So if you want to go to it, go to the freecoach.com it'll auto prompt you to sign up. But with that being said, you guys, let's talk recruiting, let's talk hiring. I got my good friend Adrian Chapman on the show back on the show. It's been a long time. Adrian. Adrian, thank you so much for joining me, though.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
Yeah, no, glad to be here, man. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
No, let's do it. And so, dude, you've been out with COVID three consult. I mean, for a long time now, man. I mean, I think when I first started creating content back in like 2000s, when we first connected, which is crazy because it's five years ago at this point, but. Dude, how long. Yeah, how long have you been out on your own like that for?
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Yeah, so I've been. Been in it for six years on my own now, but you know, been. Been in transportation recruiting now for over 10 years and like you said, feels like yesterday on one end, but feels like the world's turned upside down. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Twice over.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Yeah. Pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
So, dude, what's been going on out there, man? Like, it's. I think this year is like. I personally don't think there's going to be any drastic changes in the overall freight market as a whole. I think that it's going to be eerily similar to 2024. I think there will be some small changes, but I don't think there's going to be anything drastic that happens. But you know, at the end of the day, I think there's a lot more. I, I will say this. From my cold calling, prospecting, everything I'm doing out there, the shipper sentiment is definitely a lot more positive right now than it was in Q4 of 2024. There's a lot more. I would say there's more optimism now. That does not mean that there is a shitload of opportunity, that they're signing everybody up. None of that.
(03:34):
But there's a definite tonality shift out there. How are you preparing with some of your clients right now? Are they looking to invest in that or are they still kind of in like a holding pattern?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Yeah, great question. So I'd mirror that to answer in, you know, with who we work with. Right. You know, freight broker, freight forwarder, transportation tech, you know, distribution, warehousing, all of that. Generally the sentiment right now is better than it was last year. If you look at the data though, the numbers, I would say that not all that different. Like you could look at like the Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers for January came out and they're like slightly up, you know, from I guess December, but maybe they're down from a year ago. But if you look at pre pandemic numbers, they are higher. Right. So there's more jobs in this space now. Now if you look back to 2022, 2023, like we've dropped significantly. Right. That's why you're seeing Things like the layoffs and a lot of the merger and acquisitions business happening.
(04:42):
But then, I mean, we lag, you know, freight demand, consumer demand. And so if you look at any data points there, you know, tender rejection rates or, you know, whatever. The thing is, we're still kind of here, right? We're still kind of here. And I can, I could post a chart after, afterwards here, but like, generally it looks like there's like a slight upward trend. You know, is that due to, you know, new presidency in office? Is that due to, you know, post holiday kicking up a little bit? Is that due to consumer sentiment? I'm not sure. That doesn't mean we're going to keep going up. Might stay here and we might stay status quo for the rest of the year. So to answer your question, there's kind of two paths that I see people taking. One is, what's our status quo growth plan?
(05:30):
Right, Our consistent growth plan that we're staying on to continue to grow, to do what we've done, to grow in a healthy way. And then the other one is, what if things do explode? What if happened some of these consumer sentiment is upswings, you know, whatever, there's peace over in Europe, in the Middle east and whatever, suddenly things change. Well, then we have kind of this plan where we're talking about, all right, we've got kind of that second hiring plan that we've talked about and you know, hey, maybe we need to go out and hire, you know, 10 enterprise people. We need to hire a VP of sales. We've kind of got two plans is what I'm seeing with people. And I would encourage you, if you don't have a plan for both sides of that, to think through that.
(06:15):
If you're a transportation organization, I, I.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
Think that, do you see more people are, you know, by this, I mean, my companies are less likely to pull the trigger and more likely to invest in technology. You know, like, I have a lot of, like, I just had Paul Singer with fleetworks on yesterday and, you know, we had a really good conversation. I know a couple of guys who are using that. They're like massive fans of the platform. But, you know, I, I also know a lot of people in the industry who are like, no, man, I want real people doing that stuff out there. Are, are you having those, is that kind of a thing that's going on right now where people are coming to you like, hey man, why don't we just invest in AI, in, in doing that?
(06:57):
Or are they more like, hey, we still want people, we want people banging the phones, showing up at places. Is that, are you hearing that out there at all?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
Yeah. I mean, and I would say, like, if my role is kind of like what I would consider a growth advisor for an organization. You know, there's the old good to great example of like fire bullets before cannonballs. So my answer is try it like, you know, don't go drop the farm on an AI tool that you don't know if it's going to work for your organization. Make sure you've got your blocking and tackling down for, you know, somebody hitting the phones, you know, operating freight, moving freight, whatever that is, make sure your blocking and tackling is down. But go spend a little bit of money on AI. Embrace AI and think about if I had a really productive guy or gal who could, with an AI tool, double their performance, why not try that out?
(07:59):
Because that could, I think that is who is going to take over and be the most effective for their shippers in the coming five years.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Yeah, I, I think that, you know, I've been, obviously I read a lot outside of all of this stuff. I listen to a ton of podcasts and one of them, so I'm a big fan of the founders podcast and that one all. There's like a couple of growing trends on that where a lot of them say like they want to run as lean as possible from a headcount perspective. Like they want people to work hard from that regard as opposed to bloating with headcount. And then it just. Because like a lot of what I heard is like if there's too many people, it's laziness because then there's two people doing one job and I think like building a team out now going forward.
(08:50):
And granted a lot of the strategies and stuff on that show is from a lot of the pre Industrial revolution style companies and stuff like that. So there's obviously a lot of differences, but like, at the end of the day, nothing has changed from the perspective that like hard work is always going to win. And I look at it as like, as somebody who is in the beginning stages of like, hey, we want to build, like we're going to build a team, right? But it's like we also, my business partner and I have came to the conclusion, like, we have way more bandwidth that we can play with before we're even going to consider hiring anybody.
(09:23):
And I think that, you know, with what is out there from a tech perspective, like, I, and I literally said this yesterday, and I'll say this every single day. I will never have cap commissions for my sales reps because, like, I want to arm them with the right technology to where it's like they can do 50 loads in a day and everything else. And then we can utilize automation on the back end to where it's like, you know what? We don't need an actual person making 100 check calls every single day now. Right? Like, there's ways to do it, there's ways to automate that, and then we can hire the right people. Because, I mean, how many times in your career, Adrian, have you seen companies say, hey, we need 40 people, but then only they're only really looking for 10.
(10:05):
And now I'm thinking, like, with the way things are going, like, people can be a lot more selective on who they bring on so they can hire the right 10 and then not waste all of that capital.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah. I mean, obviously, like, any hiring plan, there's going to be some level of, we know attrition happens, right? Not everybody's going to make it. Freight and transportation is hard. You know, whatever the situation is. But like you said, if we can allow people to onboard and be more effective faster and we can shorten that Runway for them to be productive and profitable, that's what every company owner, every executive that I talk to, if they could shorten that time to profitability, everybody is going to do that. Not just simply for profitability sake, but because it's better, right? Like, it's better for that person, it's better for your customers. So why not invest in technology or processes that can help us better?
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Do you think that people should be investing more in training and development right now and then utilizing that? Because, like, you know, again, I'm always like, trying to think, like, how do we have the best stuff available? So, like, when people can come in, you know, again, it's not the. Necessarily we want them to be profitable. Day one, that would be phenomenal. But like, at the end of the day, I want to have the right tone, the right culture. I want to have all of that set up to where it's like, when people come in, like they're set up for success, right? And I know that a lot of companies out there say that, but I also look at, like, what are some of the foundations that you've seen with some of your people that are like, hey, this is a successful onboard, right?
(11:48):
Like, this is what they do. They have a training platform. It goes a couple of weeks or whatever that looks like.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Yeah, yeah. Short answer is yes, I do think more companies do need to invest in training and development. I think the problem is there's a chasm between what training development is and has been and then what an owner executive wants to invest in. And the problem is that learning and development, from what I've seen historically, tends to be something that's more like, this is fun and this is how we make it exciting. And this is, you know, something that's just like, you know, we want to make people feel warm and fuzzy. And that is what sometimes these companies, these executives feel like, man, am I wasting my time with that? I just want to see somebody can be productive right now.
(12:34):
So we have to close that gap of like, yes, some of that's important, but also what are the boots on the ground things that can help people be effective from day one? And that starts with recruiting. Saying what is effective or what are the goals for this person that they must achieve to be successful in their first 90 days? Like that needs to be discussed. Like when I'm talking to somebody and I'm recruiting them, they need to know, how am I effective? What are my KPIs and SOPs that I'm that within 30 days I need to know and be able to do this. If that's not being discussed, that's a problem. And then beyond that, if I don't know how to do that needs to be discussed in the interview process. How can I get up to speed to be taught those things?
(13:17):
Guess what? Technology is a great way to help get me up to speed. And if then you could have some kind of learning and development, either person or program that can then close and shorten that gap and speed that person up, that's even better to help them launch quickly and effectively. And I think you'll know quickly. If someone's in a rigorous learning and development program, you're gonna find out really fast if they're allergic to the phone or whatever the situation is. And you can move off of them.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
How do you think, you know, like, what are some of the things now that. Because like, I look at it as when I'm bringing on people, I almost want to go more towards non experienced than experienced. Right? Because I want, I, I just, you know, fundamentally, man, I want people who aren't afraid to pick up the phone, you know, and I'm not going to sit here and say that we're just going to do email and everything else. Like, I want that and I all. But I also don't ever want somebody to come in and try and rely on past success. Right? Because I feel like there's a big difference between a hunter and a farmer. And I feel like there's a lot of farmers that are out there who are great and valuable to organizations.
(14:28):
But I feel like there's a gap between an actual sales rep, a business development rep, and an account manager. And I think, like, ultimately you need to be prepared that, like, you know what, like your book of business won't come. And I feel like I wish more companies out there were more realistic and learned. Like, hey, I don't care about the accounts that they may or may not have worked with. I want this personality type because I need people. And I see, you know, I, I, some of my friends out there, I won't name their companies, but they're like very, very, very large. Right? And their leadership still makes cold calls every single day. And that's the tone. He's like, we don't have problems with people picking up the phone because we all pick up the phone. We all do it.
(15:13):
And like, they're not naive to think, like a book of business is transferable. Do you think, like, there's a, there's still a massive misconception out there. We're like, hey, we want this $100,000 a month book of business to come and be planted here and then be profitable right away. But we also want them to make cold calls. We also want them to do this.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
And this and this short answer is, yes, I do think that we are shifting now. There's not a company that I speak to, and I speak to companies weekly who are like, hey, we want right now, everybody wants great sellers, proven or good sellers, which makes sense for the market that we're in. Well, if you talk about the book of business side of things, like it is harder and harder to get something like that to come over and to move. Does it happen sometimes? Yeah. Is it really hard? It's really hard. Is it possible? Yeah, but it's really hard. So, you know, you have to look at, there's different ways then to create revenue. And one is finding proven people like we just talked about. That's really difficult. Two is developing people maybe outside of the industry who can do it.
(16:22):
Three is mergers and acquisitions. Maybe I'M buying another agency or transportation company and plugging them into my business. And, you know, there's attrition there, but with that middle one, I think there's a ton of opportunity that's missed because sometimes it takes time. They're the reason I, from a transportation sales standpoint, I recruit from a. From a character traits, personality traits standpoint. Often we recruit a lot of former college athletes, military people who have been in a rigorous program where they have gotten kicked in the teeth over and over, and they've had to prove discipline over and over. And that could be anything. That could be music, that could be something.
(17:02):
I mean, that could be a lot of different things, but you want to find someone who has done that and they have said, hey, I'm going to get back on the saddle every single day, and I'm gonna learn from it. I'm not gonna let it define me. How can I improve off of that? That makes sense.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
No, no, it makes perfect sense. Right? Like, I want people with that confidence because, like, at the end of the day, man, I like, I want somebody who's gonna come in and be like, dude, I'll make 50 cold calls every single day for you until we get this up and running, and then I'll continue to do it. Right? Like, it's just that mentality that comes along with it because. Guarantee out there, right? But, like, I just look at it like this. Fundamentally, man, there's only one thing I cannot teach somebody about transportation, and that's the ability to have a work ethic. Like, either you have one or you don't, you know, and we want people to go out there and really, like, I just look at it as, like, I want those individuals who are. Yeah, man, I've been doing this for 10 years.
(17:59):
I'm still not afraid to make cold calls. Like, I'm not looking for that out because I feel like there's a lot of individuals. And I know I was at that point once as well where it's like, hey, I'm just going to do this until I get to a certain point. Then I'm looking to coast with a. With a couple of customers, you know, But I feel like if you're going to, like, I want to see more companies actually define what a sales rep is, business development rep, and then an account manager, and then look for both, right? Because you can't have both. You can't have somebody who's willing to go out there, develop business, go knock on doors, make cold calls, and Then manage an entire book of business. I think there's two completely separate roles there.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
I, I 100 agree with you and I'm curious on your thoughts on this because, like, a lot of times when I'm recruiting, you know, whether it's an enterprise role or a, you know, mid level role for sales or even a leadership sales or sometimes I'll get leadership sales roles and you know, I want to know if someone's been doing it because to me, like, I'll go back to my sports example. Like, I don't. I was a college football coach for a couple years when I got done playing and it didn't do it for me. Like, it was fun, but like, I enjoyed playing so much more than I enjoyed coaching.
(19:08):
And I'm not saying one is wrong, but I'm saying for me, it also, like, if I tried to go back and coach now, I wouldn't be a very good coach because I haven't played or coached in years. And so I think the same could be said. Someone's been out of it for a long time and you haven't actually produced anything for years. How do you really know how to coach? Well, and for me, why would you not want to say, man, put me in. Let me go, you know, be the tip of the spear. Let me go make some calls. Like, I want to do that. Like, I don't, I'll never not do that because I enjoy it too much. I enjoy being a part of that process.
(19:49):
So I'm curious for you, like, you have you kind of in building your business, do you see traits that translate more than others when it comes to, to sellers or to freight professionals?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
I think that there's a, a very discernible difference between a quality coach and a quality player. Right. Because I'm right there with you, Adrian, where it's like, I, I don't want a sales leader air quote on my floor that is afraid to do the job that they're supposedly supposed to be coaching. You know, and I think, like, that's what you see out there is because, you know, dude, I, I will be one of, probably the only people to admit this publicly. Developing business is hard. All right? The rejection that comes along with it sucks. I will admit it. I'm not going to try and put myself on a pedestal and oh, it doesn't, it affects me. This is how I support my family. All right? So it is very personal for me.
(20:48):
But at the end of the day, man, when you're a sales leader, you have to lead from the front. And that is one thing that my business partner and I, we will continue to do. We are going to lead from the front. I can resonate with people like if we hired people, like if we had the revenue that came in and we could hire 10 people today. Adrian, there is nothing that any one of them are going to do that I don't know how to do or my business partner doesn't know how to do. I think that's what makes a quality organization. Now, granted, there's different scopes and sizes of companies out there. I don't ever want somebody who's an air quote, VP of whatever inside of my company that won't walk the walk.
(21:29):
That's the culture and the tone that I'm looking to set. I know it's doable because I know some very large companies out there that do that. Right. The president of the company of a multi billion dollar corporate brokerage at this point still makes sales calls. That's the tone that I want to set out there. Now, I think, like, but ultimately though, just because you're not afraid to pick up the phone and do it doesn't mean that you should be doing it every single day. Maybe your skill set is to train and develop talent, right? Like you look at a guy like a, you know, a Bill Belichick, Nick Saban, why are they quality leaders out there? Because they don't accept mediocrity. All right, Nick.
(22:08):
One of my favorite lines out there from a guy like Nick from It was from Nick Saban is we don't practice till we get it right. We practice till we don't get it wrong. And that is where I think a lot of sales reps are misled, is because they're out there practicing to get it right a couple of times. They're not out there practicing and living that day in and day out. And that's why I said that there's a very discernible difference between a sales rep and an account manager. Because if you want a killer, if you want a straight up savage out there developing a book of business, they don't want to sit behind a computer all day and manage freight, all right? They want to go out. They want that hunt. That is where like that's my love is building. All right?
(22:51):
I don't want to sit back and manage. I hate managing, all right? I want to go out there and build. I want new opportunities. I want to go pound the phones. I want to get out there in front of people. And I feel like that is the type of individual that we need and that a lot of organizations are looking for, but they don't want that. And I think though that like some people think when they get into leadership, that's when they can coast. You're like, I got the 200k salary now. I got the office. I'm going to go in and shut the door and then I'm going to fire off emails to the people on the front lines. Why aren't your call volumes up? Why aren't you this?
(23:28):
I'm the type of person where I'm like, if you're telling me what to do, why the aren't you doing it?
Speaker 3 (23:32):
Right.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
That's also why I work for myself because I cannot take orders from somebody who's not willing to do the work well.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And you go back to the Belichick and the Saban example, like, yeah, and those guys, they know what good looks like because they're talk about work ethic. I mean nobody's working harder than those. Nobody's there before them. Nobody's staying later than they are. And, and they're deep into the film. They know what, they know what excellent looks like more than anybody in the world because they've seen so many reps. They can coach on that all day because they're deep, deep into it and they're willing to walk the walk.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah. And I think like that's another thing too man. Is, is you can't. And again, I'm not perfect. I'm not going to try and sit here and say that I am. But you can't expect your team to do shit if you're not willing to do it. If you're coming in later, like I'm, dude, I just like one of my biggest pet peeves when I worked for somebody is why the do I need to be here at 6am but you show up at 8, you know, why do I gotta stay till 5? But you leave at 3:30, go yourself.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
You know, I feel like. And, and, but again, back to your saving and Billicheck thing. That's why they were successful because they were there first and they stayed last.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
No matter what. And, and that's the type of tone and culture that I'm looking to build inside of my company. And I'm not going to sit here and say that's going to be every day. Yes. I'm, I'm a father. I'm like I have a life. There's going to be times.
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
But I want, and I think like, this is what a lot of leaders out there. You should, if you want your team, set the tone. You're the leader.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah. You set the expectations. Yeah, we all need margin in our lives, but we also have to have expectations on what good looks like. Right. And if we, and I mean, we go back to recruiting like we talked about earlier, if that can't be defined from the get go and I don't know, you know, if we're not constantly saying, hey, here's where I need to be and why I need to be there and I, I'm not given the tools to get there, well, then, you know, if I don't know what good looks like, then that's my fault as a leader. If I didn't set you up for success. But if that is set, then there's no excuses for not achieving that. If I've got the tools and I know how high to jump.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
No, I'm right there with you, man. And I think like, there's a lot where it's like, you know, I don't necessarily need or want the most talented player. I want the best right player for the system, you know, and I think like, that's another thing too. We can go on for hours and hours about this is how many companies don't actually have a system. Their air quote system is here's a couple hundred companies dial, you know, and that's where it's like, I'm very fortunate to have the business partner that I do because, like, we built out an entire training platform for carrier sales, customer sales. Like, our whole thing is, man, is we are going to develop talent. All right?
(26:21):
Like, we are going to set the expectations, we are going to develop talent, but we're going to be out there leading from the front. You know, it's going to be as simple as that. There's not going to be a job inside of my company. And this is just something that I, you know, maybe it's just the Midwest in me, man, at the end of the day, but I don't ever want to have a role inside of my company that I can't physically do myself. Like, I just feel like I'd be failing as a leader. Like when we own, like when we buy trucks one day and we have trucks, I'm gonna get my CDL at that time, right?
Speaker 3 (26:50):
You want to know how to do that?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, exactly. I want to be Able to do that. Right. Like, I've already loaded trucks, but I'm gonna, once we have warehousing, I'm gonna get forklift certified and I'm gonna load trucks too. Just because I feel like at the end of the day, man, that's the system and that's the culture. And the tone that I want to set is I want to be able to say that I can do every job. I might not be the best at it, but I want to say that I can do it. And I want to be able to resonate with people, though, because I feel you're building a team and you're developing talent. When I can resonate with that sales rep who's just been told no for six straight months, like, hey, man, I've been there. This is what we've done.
(27:26):
And then, like, you can go back and you can go through, like, hey, this is what worked for me. Right. Like, this is the stuff that I listen to outside of work. These are the books that I read. And then they're going to see me actively doing it because, like, I think, like, it just brings a different level of respect from the team. Right. And I know that this is all perfect scenario style right now, but I, I would argue that more people than not are not walking the walk that they're preaching that you should be doing out there inside of an organization.
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, well, and, and that's, I mean, the thing you're talking about here is culture, right? Like, at the end of the day, like, and I know culture is like a buzzword everybody talks about, but culture is the difference maker in so many transportation organizations. And it's palpable, like the bet, the places where we place people and they go and they succeed. And these people are winning great recruits and great people and winning bids and, you know, tons of freight. Culture is very different. Right. And a big part of that is, you know, I'm walking, I'm watching that person above me walk the walk. They believe in me, and they're giving me the tools that I need to get where I want to go. Therefore, we are getting to where we want to go.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Yeah. And I think, like, that is one thing where I feel like, say 2025 doesn't improve as a freight market. Right. I do not hope that's the case. But ultimately, what are you going to do this year to invest in capturing the market shift when it actually happens? Are you going, you know, and I think, like, that's the thing Instead of looking externally, what can you work on today? Internally, what can you do to prepare yourself for that? So when people come in. Because again, if you're shuffling through people, eventually you got to look in the mirror and be like, maybe it's me, maybe it's not everybody else out. Because I. I can guarantee you this. Not everybody sucks. All right? Like, not everybody sucks.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Man. Well, dude, I appreciate it, Adrian. Thank you so much for joining me today. How does anybody reach out to you? Maybe people are looking for talent. They're looking for anything. How do they reach out to you to find out more about what you got going on, man?
Speaker 3 (29:34):
First of all, thanks for having me on. I appreciate it a ton. Was. Was fun. We'll do it again sometime, hopefully have you back online. But yes, if you want to reach out to me, I'm on LinkedIn. Adrian Chapman, if you want to go to our website, check it out. Www.cov3consulting.com Would love to say hi to you.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Perfect. I appreciate it, man. If you guys can't find Adrian for whatever reason, hit me up. I'll gladly put you guys in contact with them, but that's going to be it for today, you guys. We got a guest coming on for tomorrow. As always, if you guys got value in what you heard, subscribe to the show. If you're feeling really ambitious, I can't even speak because I went to public school. If you're feeling really ambitious, which you should be, rank the show as well, you guys, on itunes and Spotify, because if you saw value, that's what's going to get it out there so your network can see value as well. I appreciate you guys. I love you guys, and we'll be talking to you soon. I love it.
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