June 24, 2024 • 25 mins
What happens when a practicing dentist finds herself driving for Lyft to make ends meet? Join us as we uncover the remarkable journey of Dr. Codjoe, a first-generation Ghanaian dentist from Chicago, who shares her compelling story from childhood dreams to the reality of financial struggles even amidst a thriving practice. Discover how her early fascination with the dental profession led her to Georgia Tech and UAB in Birmingham, and the unexpected twists and turns that followed. Dr. Codjoe candid discussion on the financial hurdles she faced, despite being a successful dentist, sheds light on the often unseen challenges within the dental industry and emphasizes the importance of transparency and support among dental professionals.
In this eye-opening episode, we also explore the innovative path of travel dentistry that Dr.Codjoe has embraced. Learn how this career choice offers greater flexibility, helps avoid burnout, and allows for a healthier work-life balance. Dr. Codjoe shares invaluable insights on maintaining mental health and the emotional impact of patient interactions, reinforcing the necessity of self-care in the profession. We wrap up by highlighting the crucial need for a supportive community within dentistry and introduce Dr. Codjoe Instagram account, "I'm a Black Dentist," as a resource for further connection. This episode offers a refreshing, honest perspective on modern dental practice and the importance of both professional and personal well-being.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Dentalist Season 3.
I do have a special guest here,Dr Kojo.
She is from Chicago, a nativefirst generation from Ghana, and
she's a dentist here and she isa travel dentist.
She's going to share some gemswith all of us about what it is
to become a dentist or to be adentist and, for those of you
(00:21):
thinking about going to dentalschool and you're a dental
hygienist and we have our Dr RDHFacebook group she's going to
share some insights from herpoint of view.
It's very, very, veryrefreshing to hear another
outlook on what dentistry lookslike and maybe it will help some
people, inspire someone orinfluence someone on their
decision.
So hi, Dr Kojo.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Hello, so happy to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
You're welcome, and welcome to Dentalish.
I just gave them a mouthful.
It's not often that we dointerview dentists.
We actually had a dentistpodcast host and they was Dr
Joshua Golden.
That was last season, so wealways try to switch it up with
seasons and it was just thefunniest season ever the golden
dentist.
Right, yeah, the golden dentist,yeah, so he was our season two
(01:14):
podcast host, co-host, and he'sa very good friend of mine, a
Sagittarian.
Sometimes you listen to thepodcast but we're a mess up here
.
But I'm just happy to have youin, happy to have you share the
other side of dentistry and,coming from someone who looks
like us, you know what I mean.
So where did you go to school,where did you graduate from and
what made you come intodentistry?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So I'll start back way, way back.
The first time I wanted to be adentist I think I maybe was
like two or three.
I remember saying I want to bea dentist.
I think I was like two or three.
I remember saying I want to bea dentist and because I went to
the dentist and then afterwardsI would get something from the
treasure chest and I was likethis is a pretty cool gig, right
here, you know, I get prizesand stuff, so that kind of
(01:59):
sparked my interest.
But then as I got older Istarted shadowing interests.
But then as I got older, Istarted shadowing, I started
volunteering at differentoffices, things like that, and
it's, it's weird.
I just got a sense of peaceabout me whenever I was in
dental offices and like workingand helping out there, that I
didn't get that anywhere elseand so I was like, okay, so you
(02:22):
know, this is what I want topursue.
So I finished undergrad atGeorgia Tech in Atlanta and then
I finished dental school at UABin Birmingham hospital and I've
been in Chicago ever since.
So that was six, coming up onsix years ago.
Now that you know I've graduatedand it's it's so crazy like now
(02:54):
that I'm in it I'm just likeman.
Y'all should have told me oneor two things about what I'm
about to get myself into, and sonow what I want to do is like
I've had a lot of differentexperiences and I want to be
honest about those experiencesbecause I think it can help
people not make the samemistakes that I did, and so
(03:17):
people understand what they'regetting themselves into.
Dentistry is a great profession, a lot of pros about it, but
there are a lot of downsides, ifI have to be honest, and it's
all about like, how do Iapproach those things when they
happen, right, and how do I getthrough it, because we all
struggle, and something that Ifound out is that and similar to
(03:38):
what you're saying like a lotof people are struggling,
they're just not talking aboutit and being real about it, and
so I'm like you know what?
Let's be real here, guys.
Let's be honest, because we gotto be real.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
One of the posts that I saw and I think it came
across like by TikTok orsomething.
It was like I'm a dentist andI'm Ubering and I was like, well
, what's going on here?
Because she got something.
And do you know, I was like Ilooked at the views and the
thing and that had like a lot ofimpressions and a lot of views,
and you know why?
Because more people are doingthat than not yes.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So yeah, I posted that video honestly.
Just I'm just being honest.
And yeah, I drove Lyft when Iwas a dentist.
This was actually my first jobout of residency.
I was super excited.
Private practice, first job,here we go, let's do it, you
(04:33):
know.
And then reality set in.
You know, as a dentist, a lotof us are paid on commission.
So if there are no patients,you don't get paid.
You don't do procedures, youdon't get paid, and so
eventually got to a place wherethere are just not a lot of
(04:55):
patients coming in.
I don't know if there's enoughpatients for two full-time
doctors.
There was an associatebeforehand, but I don't know.
Even the owner was like man,it's been like unusually slow
and, honestly, it could havebeen also part of me.
Maybe I'm new dentist, maybe Iwasn't treatment planning you
(05:17):
know correctly as well but Imade more money in residency
than I did in private practice.
But I made more money inresidency than I did in private
practice.
So that gives you kind of likea view as to what you know we
were going through or what I wasgoing through.
And so, yeah, I had to makeends meet.
So I was like download liftsand I started driving because
(05:40):
you can't pay your bills, whenyou see one or two patients a
day and they're for profeeds andyou're getting a percentage of
that right and people don'tunderstand.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Dentistry is a business, right, these are
businesses.
So if revenue is not coming in,those patients aren't coming in
the door, we're not producingenough as a business, then
there's not going to be moneygoing out.
That means employees, jobs aregoing to be cut.
That means low wages.
That means that they're goingto be putting their, their
doctors on a production baseversus an hourly because they
(06:17):
have to pay to have that doctorthere and overhead and and
payroll is your highest expensein the dental office.
It is.
It's probably more.
It should be about 25, butusually about 50.
So if I, if someone has adoctor, if a business has a
doctor, and they're paying theirdoctor a set day rate and then
(06:37):
they're not making that comingthrough the business, then they
put them on a commission baseand a lot of dentists are on
commission base when they getout of school and I think they
kind of guarantee you for thefirst couple months and then
they kind of let you go,depending on where you are, but
you didn't get that guarantee.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I was not able to get that guarantee and I did ask,
you know, multiple times, butyou know the position that the
owner was in and you know I havenothing but love for that owner
.
The owner was just not able todo it and I asked multiple times
like, hey, I I got, like I got,I got bills, I bought a car so
(07:15):
I can come to this job.
You know used car, by the way,used honda civic, still driving
it to this day but on the civichatchback, I love it.
I love my Honda.
So, yeah, things really gotreal and I've always been
someone that I will hustle likeand I don't ask for help either,
which is something I'm tryingto get better at but I will
(07:36):
hustle.
In college I used to sell mynotes, because people love my
notes.
I used to sell my notes, makestudy guides.
I was like doing all theseresearch studies, I will hustle.
I was like doing all theseresearch studies, I will hustle.
So I was like, let me get onLyft because I know that's money
I can make.
So I dropped down to part-timebecause it just was not working.
So I only did it.
(07:57):
I didn't do it for a long time.
I did it for probably aboutlike a month or so, just to kind
of get things going.
And then COVID hit and so it'sjust.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
It was a crazy time coming out of coming out of
residency, for sure not what Ithought Wow COVID threw a monkey
wrench in there, but what COVIDalso did was created a lot of
entrepreneurs and gave a lot ofpeople purpose to tap into who
they really are and what theycan achieve deep down inside,
because no longer are you goingto work for someone else or
going to school.
(08:27):
Now you're like, what can I dofor me?
You're sitting at home watching, you know, watching TV.
So I hope it was the best thingthat ever happened to me
personally.
But I just feel like, outsideof that, people that were
tapping into like, hmm, maybe Iwant to pursue this.
They, they, they went to schoolonline.
You know they started takingthose undergrad school, those
(08:50):
undergrad classes that theyneeded to take those prereqs to
further their degree from dentalhygienist or dental assistant.
And there's a strong populationof people who, like, are going
so hard to to become dentistsand I don't knock anybody's
hustle at all, like if that'swhat you want to do, or knock
anyone's dreams, but you have tobe informed and you have to
(09:12):
know, like, coming out of school, you, you got to get your skill
up, you have to build yourskill and in today's economy
with inflation, unfortunately,the practice business owner or
doctor owner, doctor, whoever,they simply can't afford to have
a loss.
I mean, this is theirlivelihood.
This is the difference betweenthem shutting down versus paying
(09:35):
themselves and their employees.
So a lot of dentists coming outof school have to take that
into consideration and you mightwant to have a backup or a side
hustle or something that youcan sell mentorship e-books or,
you know, your notes.
I love that.
I love that selling your notes.
You must have some gel pens andsome real organized detail
(09:57):
notes.
I got some of the notes.
Read my handwriting.
But, yeah, just thinkingoutside of the box of other ways
to do, to, to, to generate, togenerate income.
So that that was really great.
So where are you now?
I know you said you're inChicago.
You started a residency here inhere in Chicago and then you
just kind of stayed.
(10:17):
But where are you now in yourcareer?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
so about six years in am I decided that I needed to
create a path for me that workswithin dentistry.
I've tried the traditionalroute, I've tried being an
associate, I've tried working incommunity health, I tried a lot
of different positions andeverything like that, and it's
(10:46):
very for me it has beendifficult to find something that
works in I won't say all arenas, because that's hard to find,
but a lot of different.
You know arenas.
So I decided, you know I'mgoing to create my own path and
do travel dentistry, or welcomedentistry, where basically I
(11:10):
fill in for clinics and officesthat are in need.
Let's say, and a doctor isgoing on vacation, let's say
it's a new clinic and they're inthe search for a permanent
dentist, but they want to kindof get things running.
That's where I come in and Ilike it because I'm in a sense
more in charge of me.
(11:31):
You know I love the flexibility.
I like what it brings.
You know I love the flexibility.
I like what it brings.
You know I feel like I'm beingcompensated, you know well too,
and there's a lot of good thingsabout it.
There are a lot.
There are cons about it too,but for me this is something
that works and I'm happy.
You know I'm much happier thanyou know what I've been in the
(11:54):
past too, so that's kind of whatI'm doing now.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah.
So when you said like you'rehappy, you're like, I seen your
face light up here and you werelike you found it, like you
found your space.
So I can genuinely see likethis is what, what it is for you
, because you don't have thatpressure of coming into the same
office or that commitment,right, like you know, like hey,
(12:18):
if it doesn't work for me, on tothe next thing.
Instead of being like I'm hereand I'm married to this one, you
know, because then you committo those patients and it's
automatically like okay, signthis contract, you're here.
But now it's just like you knowwhat, if it doesn't work for me
, if I'm not happy, if I'm notcomfortable in it, then I can
renegotiate what's going on or Ican move along.
(12:41):
So you're giving me very freespirit.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yes, and I do want to say I don't want to say like I
have commitment issues.
I don't know, maybe I might, butwhat I realized is that
dentistry I have a very uniquerelationship with dentistry, in
a sense that I need breaks fromdentistry.
(13:05):
I've experienced very, veryextreme amounts of burnout which
I did not think I was going toexperience and for me, I
realized to prevent that fromhappening, to getting to that
point, I need to be able to takebreaks when I want to take
breaks and not have to affect anoffice, you know.
(13:30):
So, coming up, this week I'llbe flying to Ghana.
I'll be, you know, I'll be outfor a couple of weeks and then I
have another.
I have a wedding in Dallas andthen it's my birthday, I'm going
to Panama.
So I'm taking five or six weeksoff and it's hard to do that
when you want to in atraditional office because
(13:50):
you're going to disrupteverything.
Patience, you're going todisrupt, you know, the staff
getting paid, everything likethat.
I have to do this so I can havea longer career, like longevity
.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Longevity.
Yeah, I see it and I'm gladthat you realize that, because
people are like okay, I'mmarried to the game, this is it.
I'm here, this is my life.
Like we, we are not built ashumans.
We are not created to work.
Work for eight hours, then gohome, you know, take care of
(14:28):
kids and take care ofresponsibility.
You go fish your dog, whatever,then hurry up and eat, then go
to bed and get up and do it.
We're not robots like we aremeant to enjoy life.
We're only on this planet for acertain amount of time and half
more than half of your lifenowadays is going to be working
like.
If you really look at your life, you're like life nowadays is
going to be working Like.
If you really look at your life, you're like I don't want to be
(14:48):
working for half my life andthen some.
So I think what you're doingand what you see and how you're
looking at things like I know Ineed that break and let's face
it.
People come to the dentist withtheir problems.
There's already a lot of mentalhealth issues, doesn't it?
But people come to you as adoctor, as a clinician, with
(15:09):
their problems and, depending onwho you are, you can absorb a
lot of that energy.
You can, and it can take a tollon your mental health and you
wouldn't even know that it'ssomething that's very heavy on
you.
If you've ever been on socialmedia and you've been scrolling
through and you see something oryou read something and you
instantly feel sad or youremotion changes.
That's energy.
(15:29):
And I think you get the samething with patients.
When you have someone that'soverly talkative or Debbie
Downer or just rude or you know,you just feel sorry for their
situation.
Like those are an array ofemotions that you're going
through in eight hours.
Situation like those are anarray of emotions that you're
going through in eight hours.
And then you go home.
You're like just staring, like,right, yep, what is this?
(15:51):
Like fml.
So I, I get it and I love, lovethat you can identify that and
create this pathway with thetravel dental, the travel
dentist and you know, get outthere and just be like this is
what I want for me and it worksand I want other people to know
that it can work too.
Because the first thing Ialways hear and I've interviewed
dental students on this podcast, the third season who are like,
(16:14):
yep, I graduated six months agoand I'm opening my dental
practice and I'm like you say,say what now?
Like you're doing what I waslike dentistry is not hard.
Like you're doing what I waslike dentistry is not hard.
The people that come in and thepeople that you work with make
it hard.
The.
The profession itself is nothard if all you have to do is
not talk to nobody.
You're joe teeth girl, you'd beso happy, but you're dealing
(16:35):
with everybody else's baggage,their childhood traumas.
You know their edges that fellout, whatever it is that they're
dealing with now becomes yourproblem.
It's our problem.
Now it becomes your problem.
So good, good for you.
I mean good for you.
Do you have any mentors thatyou can think of in this field
(16:56):
or on social media, someone thatyou really look up to and find
inspirational?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
There are some people that come to mind, and I
haven't met these people, but Ifollow them online and I think
they're awesome.
One is Dr Rose Lift.
He is like a.
He's a dentist in Texassomewhere, I believe black
dentist, and he just does.
He's so raw and authentic, andauthentic too just does.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
He's so raw and authentic and authentic too, and
his work is just amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
The last, person that I just did a podcast interview
with said the same thing.
He's, he's, he's really awesome.
Again, I've never met him inperson but like we've, you know,
interacted a little bit, youknow, through social media and
everything like that and it's,it's just awesome to see other
black dentists doing well, doinggreat, you know given that
you're attracted to his light.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Y'all gonna hear me say this guy said it on the last
podcast.
I looked at his non-profit likefor that he does for the youth
and he does the smile makeoversand the only reason why I know
this is because we have brownguard.
H has a black history monthmagazine that we do and we
featured him as one of the topinfluential dentists and I had
to go do his research, listen toall his podcasts.
Girl, I felt like I was digging.
I had to do my journalism, so Iknow a lot about him.
(18:14):
Funny story come to find out my.
My boyfriend does music and herecords you know celebrities and
they had a show I forget whoseshow it was, I think it was like
little baby or something and DrRose does music and he was
backstage with him.
So they got to meet each otherand you know exchange numbers
(18:35):
and stuff.
So when I started following himI was like, wow, this man does
a lot.
And then his story he actuallywas shot.
I don't know if you knew that,but he was shot coming out of
his practice and he almost losthis life and I didn't know that
until I read it and then he gavehis life to God and he
transformed who he was, you knowthe person that he was.
(18:58):
He's like he attracted whathappened to him and it just got
way deeper again.
I had to do my research on it,so I was listening to interviews
and stuff and I becameintrigued and, like the light,
his light, it, it, it attractedme to him.
I don't know if that's the rightverbiage I know it's, but and
it seems like a lot of otherpeople too like it's.
(19:20):
Like he's authentic, you knowhe's trying to help.
There's no ulterior motiveslike what you see is what you
get, and like that's just, he'sauthentic, you know he's
shooting help.
There's no ulterior motives,like what you see is what you
get, and like that's just theperson that is like.
I can see myself in that personand it's good to see that.
You know he's influential foryou.
I had a dental hygienist on thelast podcast and she said the
same thing and I was like, oh,my goodness, yeah.
So I decided to, for BlackHistory Month, just give people
(19:43):
their flowers, and he was one ofthem.
And then my boyfriend called meand was like oh, my girlfriend
or my wife.
He called me his wife.
I'm like you ain't earned that.
Don't be trying to put that onme.
What does my wife?
mean Don't say wife if it ain'ta wife it ain't a wife, so he
hates when I call my boyfriend.
But, um, he was like, yeah, mywife, you know, did this thing
(20:05):
on you and then he he shared itand it was.
It was just good to see like itwas.
It was, it was reallyrefreshing.
It was him and some otherdoctors Dr Kwan Watson, dr
Portia James she's an oralsurgeon, dr Kwan Watson has Care
Mobile and it was anotherdentist I think I had.
Oh, dr Rico Short, he's anendodontist, yeah, endodontist,
so it was.
It was.
(20:26):
It was four of them and DrGolden was like why you didn't
put me up there.
I was like, yeah, you didn'tearn it yet.
No, I'm just kidding.
But um, yeah, those are some ofthe people that I look up to in
, in, in, you know, in in theposition that I am in, and I was
like I just want to share alittle bit about them,
especially Dr Portia James,because you don't see a lot of
black oral surgeons.
(20:47):
Like she's doing maxillofacialsurgery, yeah, and I'm like, wow
, that that, to me, is likeshe's that representation.
You don't see a lot of a lot ofthat.
Yeah, you know, you were bornin Canada and you've lived in
Georgia and you're, let's say,your dental hygiene.
Your free spirit has probablyto do with a lot of where you
moved around.
(21:07):
Where do you see yourself infive years?
Where do you want to be?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Honestly, I love Chicago so much I still see
myself in Chicago, unless theLord tells me to move somewhere
else.
I hope to be in five years anddoing clinical and non-clinical
dentistry.
Right now I'm doing a lot ofyou know I'm working as a
(21:35):
dentist.
But what I've realized thatwhat I really like to do, too,
is talk to a lot of newer grads.
I get a lot of them commentingand DMing me and stuff like that
through my page and just havinghonest conversations.
A lot of them are just likethank you so much for saying
(21:57):
what I've been feeling all thistime, Like I thought I was alone
, I thought I was the only onestruggling and everything like
that.
And as we talk, as we connect,you know it's giving them tools
or, you know, sharing myexperiences to make their career
a little bit better in thebeginning than it was for me.
(22:17):
So I hope to be doing a littlebit more of that in five years.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah.
So like more mentorship, yeah,I actually love that because
when you're going throughsomething and nobody else is
going through it, you're likewhat is wrong with me?
Is it me?
And then you really realizepeople aren't sharing their
failures, they're not sharingtheir struggles, and that's one
(22:45):
of the things.
When Brown Rage was created, Iwas like I cannot be this
hygienist, making this money andstill going through this type
of low energy, this money.
It's still going through thistype of low energy stuff.
You know, you know.
So it's just knowing likeyou're not alone.
And hey, there are people outthere that will help mentor you
and that will share little tipsand resources and get you
through, because you're a livingtestimony like you.
(23:06):
You're here and then you foundyour happy space.
That's what I'm happy about foryou like yeah like you found it
, so that that is.
That is where can people findyou any last nuggets that you'd
like to share with the audience?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
if I had to share anything.
I will want to especially speakto, like I said, the newer
grads, but also to some of thedentists, like in my age group
too.
Honestly, I've had evendentists that are 20, 30 years
out reaching out to me and justsaying again, thank you for
(23:45):
being honest.
Like I've had these strugglesthroughout my career and I've
been questioning you knowwhether or not I made the right
decision x, y and z.
But, bottom line, you are notalone.
Please know that you are notalone.
If you're struggling, if youhave burnout, anxiety,
depression, whatever, whateverit might be, you are not alone.
(24:08):
Dentistry is not something.
That is it.
It's not an easy profession.
There are a lot of nuances thatcome with it, but know that I
feel like people are starting tobecome a little bit more open.
You know a little bit morehonest about the conversations.
So find that community, connectwith those people and know that
you are able to overcome,because there's so many people
(24:31):
who have done the same thing and, at the end of the day, we all
want to help each other.
So, yeah, you're not alone.
That's the bottom line.
You're not alone.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I love it.
I love it.
All right, you guys.
So this is Dr Kojo and you guyscan find her.
Where can they find you?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yes, you can find me on Instagram at I'm a Black
Dentist on Instagram, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
All day, every day, all day, every day, All day,
every day.
All righty, well, thank you.
Thank you so much for being onthis episode.
It's very enlightening and I'msure you'll get some more DMs.
You'll get some DMs from me too, because I got to talk, all
right.
Welcome back to Dentalist Season 3.
I do have a special guest here,Dr Kojo.
She is from Chicago, a nativefirst generation from Ghana, and
she's a dentist here and she isa travel dentist.
She's going to share some gemswith all of us about what it is
to become a dentist or to be adentist and, for those of you
(00:21):
thinking about going to dentalschool and you're a dental
hygienist and we have our Dr RDHFacebook group she's going to
share some insights from herpoint of view.
It's very, very, veryrefreshing to hear another
outlook on what dentistry lookslike and maybe it will help some
people, inspire someone orinfluence someone on their
decision.
So hi, Dr Kojo.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Hello, so happy to be here.
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
You're welcome, and welcome to Dentalish.
I just gave them a mouthful.
It's not often that we dointerview dentists.
We actually had a dentistpodcast host and they was Dr
Joshua Golden.
That was last season, so wealways try to switch it up with
seasons and it was just thefunniest season ever the golden
dentist.
Right, yeah, the golden dentist,yeah, so he was our season two
(01:14):
podcast host, co-host, and he'sa very good friend of mine, a
Sagittarian.
Sometimes you listen to thepodcast but we're a mess up here
.
But I'm just happy to have youin, happy to have you share the
other side of dentistry and,coming from someone who looks
like us, you know what I mean.
So where did you go to school,where did you graduate from and
what made you come intodentistry?
Speaker 2 (01:35):
So I'll start back way, way back.
The first time I wanted to be adentist I think I maybe was
like two or three.
I remember saying I want to bea dentist.
I think I was like two or three.
I remember saying I want to bea dentist and because I went to
the dentist and then afterwardsI would get something from the
treasure chest and I was likethis is a pretty cool gig, right
here, you know, I get prizesand stuff, so that kind of
(01:59):
sparked my interest.
But then as I got older Istarted shadowing interests.
But then as I got older, Istarted shadowing, I started
volunteering at differentoffices, things like that, and
it's, it's weird.
I just got a sense of peaceabout me whenever I was in
dental offices and like workingand helping out there, that I
didn't get that anywhere elseand so I was like, okay, so you
(02:22):
know, this is what I want topursue.
So I finished undergrad atGeorgia Tech in Atlanta and then
I finished dental school at UABin Birmingham hospital and I've
been in Chicago ever since.
So that was six, coming up onsix years ago.
Now that you know I've graduatedand it's it's so crazy like now
(02:54):
that I'm in it I'm just likeman.
Y'all should have told me oneor two things about what I'm
about to get myself into, and sonow what I want to do is like
I've had a lot of differentexperiences and I want to be
honest about those experiencesbecause I think it can help
people not make the samemistakes that I did, and so
(03:17):
people understand what they'regetting themselves into.
Dentistry is a great profession, a lot of pros about it, but
there are a lot of downsides, ifI have to be honest, and it's
all about like, how do Iapproach those things when they
happen, right, and how do I getthrough it, because we all
struggle, and something that Ifound out is that and similar to
(03:38):
what you're saying like a lotof people are struggling,
they're just not talking aboutit and being real about it, and
so I'm like you know what?
Let's be real here, guys.
Let's be honest, because we gotto be real.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
One of the posts that I saw and I think it came
across like by TikTok orsomething.
It was like I'm a dentist andI'm Ubering and I was like, well
, what's going on here?
Because she got something.
And do you know, I was like Ilooked at the views and the
thing and that had like a lot ofimpressions and a lot of views,
and you know why?
Because more people are doingthat than not yes.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
So yeah, I posted that video honestly.
Just I'm just being honest.
And yeah, I drove Lyft when Iwas a dentist.
This was actually my first jobout of residency.
I was super excited.
Private practice, first job,here we go, let's do it, you
(04:33):
know.
And then reality set in.
You know, as a dentist, a lotof us are paid on commission.
So if there are no patients,you don't get paid.
You don't do procedures, youdon't get paid, and so
eventually got to a place wherethere are just not a lot of
(04:55):
patients coming in.
I don't know if there's enoughpatients for two full-time
doctors.
There was an associatebeforehand, but I don't know.
Even the owner was like man,it's been like unusually slow
and, honestly, it could havebeen also part of me.
Maybe I'm new dentist, maybe Iwasn't treatment planning you
(05:17):
know correctly as well but Imade more money in residency
than I did in private practice.
But I made more money inresidency than I did in private
practice.
So that gives you kind of likea view as to what you know we
were going through or what I wasgoing through.
And so, yeah, I had to makeends meet.
So I was like download liftsand I started driving because
(05:40):
you can't pay your bills, whenyou see one or two patients a
day and they're for profeeds andyou're getting a percentage of
that right and people don'tunderstand.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Dentistry is a business, right, these are
businesses.
So if revenue is not coming in,those patients aren't coming in
the door, we're not producingenough as a business, then
there's not going to be moneygoing out.
That means employees, jobs aregoing to be cut.
That means low wages.
That means that they're goingto be putting their, their
doctors on a production baseversus an hourly because they
(06:17):
have to pay to have that doctorthere and overhead and and
payroll is your highest expensein the dental office.
It is.
It's probably more.
It should be about 25, butusually about 50.
So if I, if someone has adoctor, if a business has a
doctor, and they're paying theirdoctor a set day rate and then
(06:37):
they're not making that comingthrough the business, then they
put them on a commission baseand a lot of dentists are on
commission base when they getout of school and I think they
kind of guarantee you for thefirst couple months and then
they kind of let you go,depending on where you are, but
you didn't get that guarantee.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
I was not able to get that guarantee and I did ask,
you know, multiple times, butyou know the position that the
owner was in and you know I havenothing but love for that owner
.
The owner was just not able todo it and I asked multiple times
like, hey, I I got, like I got,I got bills, I bought a car so
(07:15):
I can come to this job.
You know used car, by the way,used honda civic, still driving
it to this day but on the civichatchback, I love it.
I love my Honda.
So, yeah, things really gotreal and I've always been
someone that I will hustle likeand I don't ask for help either,
which is something I'm tryingto get better at but I will
(07:36):
hustle.
In college I used to sell mynotes, because people love my
notes.
I used to sell my notes, makestudy guides.
I was like doing all theseresearch studies, I will hustle.
I was like doing all theseresearch studies, I will hustle.
So I was like, let me get onLyft because I know that's money
I can make.
So I dropped down to part-timebecause it just was not working.
So I only did it.
(07:57):
I didn't do it for a long time.
I did it for probably aboutlike a month or so, just to kind
of get things going.
And then COVID hit and so it'sjust.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
It was a crazy time coming out of coming out of
residency, for sure not what Ithought Wow COVID threw a monkey
wrench in there, but what COVIDalso did was created a lot of
entrepreneurs and gave a lot ofpeople purpose to tap into who
they really are and what theycan achieve deep down inside,
because no longer are you goingto work for someone else or
going to school.
(08:27):
Now you're like, what can I dofor me?
You're sitting at home watching, you know, watching TV.
So I hope it was the best thingthat ever happened to me
personally.
But I just feel like, outsideof that, people that were
tapping into like, hmm, maybe Iwant to pursue this.
They, they, they went to schoolonline.
You know they started takingthose undergrad school, those
(08:50):
undergrad classes that theyneeded to take those prereqs to
further their degree from dentalhygienist or dental assistant.
And there's a strong populationof people who, like, are going
so hard to to become dentistsand I don't knock anybody's
hustle at all, like if that'swhat you want to do, or knock
anyone's dreams, but you have tobe informed and you have to
(09:12):
know, like, coming out of school, you, you got to get your skill
up, you have to build yourskill and in today's economy
with inflation, unfortunately,the practice business owner or
doctor owner, doctor, whoever,they simply can't afford to have
a loss.
I mean, this is theirlivelihood.
This is the difference betweenthem shutting down versus paying
(09:35):
themselves and their employees.
So a lot of dentists coming outof school have to take that
into consideration and you mightwant to have a backup or a side
hustle or something that youcan sell mentorship e-books or,
you know, your notes.
I love that.
I love that selling your notes.
You must have some gel pens andsome real organized detail
(09:57):
notes.
I got some of the notes.
Read my handwriting.
But, yeah, just thinkingoutside of the box of other ways
to do, to, to, to generate, togenerate income.
So that that was really great.
So where are you now?
I know you said you're inChicago.
You started a residency here inhere in Chicago and then you
just kind of stayed.
(10:17):
But where are you now in yourcareer?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
so about six years in am I decided that I needed to
create a path for me that workswithin dentistry.
I've tried the traditionalroute, I've tried being an
associate, I've tried working incommunity health, I tried a lot
of different positions andeverything like that, and it's
(10:46):
very for me it has beendifficult to find something that
works in I won't say all arenas, because that's hard to find,
but a lot of different.
You know arenas.
So I decided, you know I'mgoing to create my own path and
do travel dentistry, or welcomedentistry, where basically I
(11:10):
fill in for clinics and officesthat are in need.
Let's say, and a doctor isgoing on vacation, let's say
it's a new clinic and they're inthe search for a permanent
dentist, but they want to kindof get things running.
That's where I come in and Ilike it because I'm in a sense
more in charge of me.
(11:31):
You know I love the flexibility.
I like what it brings.
You know I love the flexibility.
I like what it brings.
You know I feel like I'm beingcompensated, you know well too,
and there's a lot of good thingsabout it.
There are a lot.
There are cons about it too,but for me this is something
that works and I'm happy.
You know I'm much happier thanyou know what I've been in the
(11:54):
past too, so that's kind of whatI'm doing now.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah.
So when you said like you'rehappy, you're like, I seen your
face light up here and you werelike you found it, like you
found your space.
So I can genuinely see likethis is what, what it is for you
, because you don't have thatpressure of coming into the same
office or that commitment,right, like you know, like hey,
(12:18):
if it doesn't work for me, on tothe next thing.
Instead of being like I'm hereand I'm married to this one, you
know, because then you committo those patients and it's
automatically like okay, signthis contract, you're here.
But now it's just like you knowwhat, if it doesn't work for me
, if I'm not happy, if I'm notcomfortable in it, then I can
renegotiate what's going on or Ican move along.
(12:41):
So you're giving me very freespirit.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Yes, and I do want to say I don't want to say like I
have commitment issues.
I don't know, maybe I might, butwhat I realized is that
dentistry I have a very uniquerelationship with dentistry, in
a sense that I need breaks fromdentistry.
(13:05):
I've experienced very, veryextreme amounts of burnout which
I did not think I was going toexperience and for me, I
realized to prevent that fromhappening, to getting to that
point, I need to be able to takebreaks when I want to take
breaks and not have to affect anoffice, you know.
(13:30):
So, coming up, this week I'llbe flying to Ghana.
I'll be, you know, I'll be outfor a couple of weeks and then I
have another.
I have a wedding in Dallas andthen it's my birthday, I'm going
to Panama.
So I'm taking five or six weeksoff and it's hard to do that
when you want to in atraditional office because
(13:50):
you're going to disrupteverything.
Patience, you're going todisrupt, you know, the staff
getting paid, everything likethat.
I have to do this so I can havea longer career, like longevity
.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Longevity.
Yeah, I see it and I'm gladthat you realize that, because
people are like okay, I'mmarried to the game, this is it.
I'm here, this is my life.
Like we, we are not built ashumans.
We are not created to work.
Work for eight hours, then gohome, you know, take care of
(14:28):
kids and take care ofresponsibility.
You go fish your dog, whatever,then hurry up and eat, then go
to bed and get up and do it.
We're not robots like we aremeant to enjoy life.
We're only on this planet for acertain amount of time and half
more than half of your lifenowadays is going to be working
like.
If you really look at your life, you're like life nowadays is
going to be working Like.
If you really look at your life, you're like I don't want to be
(14:48):
working for half my life andthen some.
So I think what you're doingand what you see and how you're
looking at things like I know Ineed that break and let's face
it.
People come to the dentist withtheir problems.
There's already a lot of mentalhealth issues, doesn't it?
But people come to you as adoctor, as a clinician, with
(15:09):
their problems and, depending onwho you are, you can absorb a
lot of that energy.
You can, and it can take a tollon your mental health and you
wouldn't even know that it'ssomething that's very heavy on
you.
If you've ever been on socialmedia and you've been scrolling
through and you see something oryou read something and you
instantly feel sad or youremotion changes.
That's energy.
(15:29):
And I think you get the samething with patients.
When you have someone that'soverly talkative or Debbie
Downer or just rude or you know,you just feel sorry for their
situation.
Like those are an array ofemotions that you're going
through in eight hours.
Situation like those are anarray of emotions that you're
going through in eight hours.
And then you go home.
You're like just staring, like,right, yep, what is this?
(15:51):
Like fml.
So I, I get it and I love, lovethat you can identify that and
create this pathway with thetravel dental, the travel
dentist and you know, get outthere and just be like this is
what I want for me and it worksand I want other people to know
that it can work too.
Because the first thing Ialways hear and I've interviewed
dental students on this podcast, the third season who are like,
(16:14):
yep, I graduated six months agoand I'm opening my dental
practice and I'm like you say,say what now?
Like you're doing what I waslike dentistry is not hard.
Like you're doing what I waslike dentistry is not hard.
The people that come in and thepeople that you work with make
it hard.
The.
The profession itself is nothard if all you have to do is
not talk to nobody.
You're joe teeth girl, you'd beso happy, but you're dealing
(16:35):
with everybody else's baggage,their childhood traumas.
You know their edges that fellout, whatever it is that they're
dealing with now becomes yourproblem.
It's our problem.
Now it becomes your problem.
So good, good for you.
I mean good for you.
Do you have any mentors thatyou can think of in this field
(16:56):
or on social media, someone thatyou really look up to and find
inspirational?
Speaker 2 (17:00):
There are some people that come to mind, and I
haven't met these people, but Ifollow them online and I think
they're awesome.
One is Dr Rose Lift.
He is like a.
He's a dentist in Texassomewhere, I believe black
dentist, and he just does.
He's so raw and authentic, andauthentic too just does.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
He's so raw and authentic and authentic too, and
his work is just amazing.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
The last, person that I just did a podcast interview
with said the same thing.
He's, he's, he's really awesome.
Again, I've never met him inperson but like we've, you know,
interacted a little bit, youknow, through social media and
everything like that and it's,it's just awesome to see other
black dentists doing well, doinggreat, you know given that
you're attracted to his light.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Y'all gonna hear me say this guy said it on the last
podcast.
I looked at his non-profit likefor that he does for the youth
and he does the smile makeoversand the only reason why I know
this is because we have brownguard.
H has a black history monthmagazine that we do and we
featured him as one of the topinfluential dentists and I had
to go do his research, listen toall his podcasts.
Girl, I felt like I was digging.
I had to do my journalism, so Iknow a lot about him.
(18:14):
Funny story come to find out my.
My boyfriend does music and herecords you know celebrities and
they had a show I forget whoseshow it was, I think it was like
little baby or something and DrRose does music and he was
backstage with him.
So they got to meet each otherand you know exchange numbers
(18:35):
and stuff.
So when I started following himI was like, wow, this man does
a lot.
And then his story he actuallywas shot.
I don't know if you knew that,but he was shot coming out of
his practice and he almost losthis life and I didn't know that
until I read it and then he gavehis life to God and he
transformed who he was, you knowthe person that he was.
(18:58):
He's like he attracted whathappened to him and it just got
way deeper again.
I had to do my research on it,so I was listening to interviews
and stuff and I becameintrigued and, like the light,
his light, it, it, it attractedme to him.
I don't know if that's the rightverbiage I know it's, but and
it seems like a lot of otherpeople too like it's.
(19:20):
Like he's authentic, you knowhe's trying to help.
There's no ulterior motiveslike what you see is what you
get, and like that's just, he'sauthentic, you know he's
shooting help.
There's no ulterior motives,like what you see is what you
get, and like that's just theperson that is like.
I can see myself in that personand it's good to see that.
You know he's influential foryou.
I had a dental hygienist on thelast podcast and she said the
same thing and I was like, oh,my goodness, yeah.
So I decided to, for BlackHistory Month, just give people
(19:43):
their flowers, and he was one ofthem.
And then my boyfriend called meand was like oh, my girlfriend
or my wife.
He called me his wife.
I'm like you ain't earned that.
Don't be trying to put that onme.
What does my wife?
mean Don't say wife if it ain'ta wife it ain't a wife, so he
hates when I call my boyfriend.
But, um, he was like, yeah, mywife, you know, did this thing
(20:05):
on you and then he he shared itand it was.
It was just good to see like itwas.
It was, it was reallyrefreshing.
It was him and some otherdoctors Dr Kwan Watson, dr
Portia James she's an oralsurgeon, dr Kwan Watson has Care
Mobile and it was anotherdentist I think I had.
Oh, dr Rico Short, he's anendodontist, yeah, endodontist,
so it was.
It was.
(20:26):
It was four of them and DrGolden was like why you didn't
put me up there.
I was like, yeah, you didn'tearn it yet.
No, I'm just kidding.
But um, yeah, those are some ofthe people that I look up to in
, in, in, you know, in in theposition that I am in, and I was
like I just want to share alittle bit about them,
especially Dr Portia James,because you don't see a lot of
black oral surgeons.
(20:47):
Like she's doing maxillofacialsurgery, yeah, and I'm like, wow
, that that, to me, is likeshe's that representation.
You don't see a lot of a lot ofthat.
Yeah, you know, you were bornin Canada and you've lived in
Georgia and you're, let's say,your dental hygiene.
Your free spirit has probablyto do with a lot of where you
moved around.
(21:07):
Where do you see yourself infive years?
Where do you want to be?
Speaker 2 (21:13):
Honestly, I love Chicago so much I still see
myself in Chicago, unless theLord tells me to move somewhere
else.
I hope to be in five years anddoing clinical and non-clinical
dentistry.
Right now I'm doing a lot ofyou know I'm working as a
(21:35):
dentist.
But what I've realized thatwhat I really like to do, too,
is talk to a lot of newer grads.
I get a lot of them commentingand DMing me and stuff like that
through my page and just havinghonest conversations.
A lot of them are just likethank you so much for saying
(21:57):
what I've been feeling all thistime, Like I thought I was alone
, I thought I was the only onestruggling and everything like
that.
And as we talk, as we connect,you know it's giving them tools
or, you know, sharing myexperiences to make their career
a little bit better in thebeginning than it was for me.
(22:17):
So I hope to be doing a littlebit more of that in five years.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah.
So like more mentorship, yeah,I actually love that because
when you're going throughsomething and nobody else is
going through it, you're likewhat is wrong with me?
Is it me?
And then you really realizepeople aren't sharing their
failures, they're not sharingtheir struggles, and that's one
(22:45):
of the things.
When Brown Rage was created, Iwas like I cannot be this
hygienist, making this money andstill going through this type
of low energy, this money.
It's still going through thistype of low energy stuff.
You know, you know.
So it's just knowing likeyou're not alone.
And hey, there are people outthere that will help mentor you
and that will share little tipsand resources and get you
through, because you're a livingtestimony like you.
(23:06):
You're here and then you foundyour happy space.
That's what I'm happy about foryou like yeah like you found it
, so that that is.
That is where can people findyou any last nuggets that you'd
like to share with the audience?
Speaker 2 (23:23):
if I had to share anything.
I will want to especially speakto, like I said, the newer
grads, but also to some of thedentists, like in my age group
too.
Honestly, I've had evendentists that are 20, 30 years
out reaching out to me and justsaying again, thank you for
(23:45):
being honest.
Like I've had these strugglesthroughout my career and I've
been questioning you knowwhether or not I made the right
decision x, y and z.
But, bottom line, you are notalone.
Please know that you are notalone.
If you're struggling, if youhave burnout, anxiety,
depression, whatever, whateverit might be, you are not alone.
(24:08):
Dentistry is not something.
That is it.
It's not an easy profession.
There are a lot of nuances thatcome with it, but know that I
feel like people are starting tobecome a little bit more open.
You know a little bit morehonest about the conversations.
So find that community, connectwith those people and know that
you are able to overcome,because there's so many people
(24:31):
who have done the same thing and, at the end of the day, we all
want to help each other.
So, yeah, you're not alone.
That's the bottom line.
You're not alone.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
I love it.
I love it.
All right, you guys.
So this is Dr Kojo and you guyscan find her.
Where can they find you?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yes, you can find me on Instagram at I'm a Black
Dentist on Instagram, yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
All day, every day, all day, every day, All day,
every day.
All righty, well, thank you.
Thank you so much for being onthis episode.
It's very enlightening and I'msure you'll get some more DMs.
You'll get some DMs from me too, because I got to talk, all
right.
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