June 18, 2025 • 23 mins
There’s an easy solution for patients who can’t afford treatment: membership plans. In this episode, you’ll learn how to structure your plan, price it so patients sign up, and get your team on board.
The DPH coaches share what’s worked in their practices and easy mistakes you can avoid, whether you're creating a plan or revamping one you already have. Tune in for tips to build a plan that keeps patients coming back and feels like a win for everyone!
Topics discussed in this episode:
- Why membership plans are good for your practice
- How membership plans benefit patients
- Plan structures and pricing
- How to get team buy-in
- Marketing and getting patients to sign up
To download the Membership Plan Documents mentioned in the episode click here!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
You don't need to turn away good patients just
because they don't haveinsurance, and if you don't have
a solution for these patients,like a membership plan, you
might be doing that without evenknowing.
Today, we're going to betalking about why membership
plans are good for your practiceand how to get the patients to
actually buy into it.
You're going to learn whatmembership plans include, how to
(00:22):
price it right for yourpatients and the easiest way to
get your team on board.
Now, membership plans they area win-win for you and your
patients and your practice.
So stick around.
We're going to give you a lotof ideas to create your own or,
if you already have one, a fewideas of things you might want
to change.
Stay tuned.
You are listening to DentalPractice Heroes, where we help
you to create a team andsystem-driven dental practice,
(00:45):
one that allowed you to practiceless and make more money.
I'm Dr Paul Etcheson, a dentalcoach, author of two books on
dental practice management andthe owner of a five-doctor
practice in the South suburbs ofChicago.
I wanna show you how beingintentional about ownership can
create a practice that supportsyour life instead of consuming
it.
So if you're ready to create atrue business that runs without
you.
You're in the right place.
(01:06):
Let's get started.
Hi there and welcome back tothe Dental Practice Heroes
podcast.
I am your host, dr PaulEtcheson.
I'm joined by Dr SteveMarkowitz, multi-practice owner
outside Boston, and Dr HenryErnst, a large 18-op practice in
North Carolina.
Welcome back, guys.
(01:28):
How are you today?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Doing awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Paul, thanks for that lovely clear introduction yeah,
one line, one line to describeyou.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Professional to the T , as always, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
The listeners won't know how much just got edited
out right there of me trying tosay one line about Steve and one
line about Henry and it's keptjust getting smaller and smaller
.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
It's all smoke and mirrors as long as we get to
talk about whatever we get totalk about here on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well, what are we talking about today, guys?
Steven?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
You said you wanted to talk about membership plans
and how they can help ourpractices, and I am excited to
see where we can take this,because I don't got a ton other
than I know we have one.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
You were jumping at this one.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Jumping at it.
Yeah, we are jumping.
We have never talked aboutmembership plans and I think
it's a good one because,honestly, this was something
that I heard about.
I mean, my practice has beenopen since 2012.
I heard about it.
You should have a membershipplan.
You should have a membershipplan and I'll tell the listeners
what we used to do is, if youhad cash, we just gave you 15%
off because you didn't haveinsurance.
(02:31):
It's stupid that we have toplay this game that we have to
overbloat the fees that we woulddesire because we want to send
big fees to the PPOs.
But I delayed doing this for avery long time and when we did
roll it out, it was very good.
So it was like I think it'sgoing to be awesome to talk
about because it's been a goodthing.
But let's go to you first,henry.
I mean, you've got a membershipplan.
Like, should you have it?
(02:53):
And if you do believe that,what do you believe should be
contained in it?
Like, what do you guys have andfound that worked for you?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
So I'm the value to it and so we just instituted it
right from the beginning, and Ifeel like there's a few
different things that it bringsto the table.
Number one is accountability.
In all of our marketing wealways advertise that we have an
in-house and you can't call itinsurance.
That's a big thing.
It's an in-house membershipplan or we call it a dental
savers plan.
So in all of our marketing weprobably put like five or six
(03:30):
procedures that are prettycommon and we'll have that old
thing that says you know, commonprice, our price.
And so people sometimes willcome in.
They'll say, wow, you actuallyput the price out there for a
crown.
Nobody else does that.
Right, it's like a hidden thingNobody wants to say so I feel
like that gets people to come in.
Just from that, I can't tell youhow many people will avoid the
(03:52):
dentist because they don't haveinsurance.
How many times have you guysheard that when people say it's
been about six years since I'vegone to the dentist.
Were you nervous, were youscared?
No, I just didn't haveinsurance.
So people just think that it'slike if you go into the
dentist's office withoutinsurance, they're going to hit
you over the head with asledgehammer.
It's going to be like $5,000.
(04:13):
So the nice thing about amembership plan is you give them
that warm fuzzy feeling offeeling like they have insurance
but they have a membership plan.
And it's always nice to tellyour patients like, listen, you
know a lot of our patients don'thave insurance.
That's why we offer this.
There's no third party, it'sjust you and I.
And if you have to come in inthe middle of the year for a
broken tooth, the x-ray and examis already covered.
You get your two hygiene visitsjust like insurance.
(04:35):
So it gives people that warmfuzzy feeling and it's really
great for these families thatdon't have insurance.
And it's a nice revenue streama little bit because, like
everybody does it differently,we do ours up front.
Ours is like $300.
It's like 307 or something likethat per year and you pay it
now and it's good for a year.
(04:55):
So I know other people talkabout, you know, getting into
the doohickeys of it, likegetting into monthly and all
this stuff.
We have them pay once a year.
So it's nice, we get that upfront and, like I said, you get
a nice stable practice growthfrom it in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I've had the same experience and what was funny
with me is our team, or ourpatients, were doing the same
thing.
They essentially were gettingthe exact same deal.
It was they were getting 15%off just for showing up, and
then we decided to make we madeour plan 20% off, but we also
had a fee increase right at thesame time too.
So it was essentially the samething, but it was amazing how
(05:29):
many patients were like, oh mygosh, when did you guys start
doing this?
This is great, this is amazing,and it's true because I think
people feel guilty, like youcan't go to the dentist without
dental insurance and now yougive them a reason that they can
continue to come.
I want to read a two-star Yelpreview I just got last week and
it just makes me look.
I mean, this is, if you'redriving in the morning to work
(05:51):
and you want to be infuriated,get ready, because this is the
stuff that just drives mebananas, all right.
So went in there for a crown afew years back.
Their eyes light up when theysaw my insurance coverage.
I could tell, like we'relighting up, like oh my God,
dude, he's got this, guy's gotunion insurance and it's so good
.
We're like we're gonna buildthe hell out of it.
That's what he's thinking.
Anyway, fast forward to early2025, after a crown blows out, I
(06:12):
go in for service.
After a few questions of themasking if I've seen any other
dentists a few years back, andmultiple times we're asking Now,
asking if he's seen multipledentists here's this is why A
day later, when I'm getting thistooth pulled, I hear the
assistant say out loud I see,you were just in for a cleaning.
So, long story short, I was notin for a cleaning.
(06:33):
Even I get to per yearInsurance fraud.
I knew it.
So this guy literally thinks weare sending.
We saw how good his insurancewas.
Then we checked to see hey, man, you been anywhere else Because
we're going to kind of rip offyour insurance.
So people literally think likethe insurance is everything.
So now, even though we can'tsay it's not insurance or it's
(06:53):
insurance or whatever, we'vegiven them the non-insurance
insurance plan so they can comesee us, and that's been my
experience too.
So to answer the question,should you do it?
I think so.
I've seen it with my patients.
It's been very easy and I thinkit'd be great to talk about how
we're doing it.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I agree completely.
I think it's something thatmost all offices should have.
But to piggyback on what bothof you guys were saying, it's
not that.
It's just a warm and fuzzyfeeling of having a discount
plan or something like insurance.
Patients don't actually thinkthey can walk into the building
if you don't accept theirinsurance Right.
So this opens that door of like, yes, it's okay, you can come
in and we can treat you, andthen, in addition, here's a
(07:35):
little bit of incentive for youto come in and get healthier,
get your cleanings and get takecare of that work.
I'm sure all these thirdparties will tell you about
people with membership plans.
Do 18.6% more dentistry.
I don't buy any of that crap, Idon't know, but what I do know
is dentistry is expensive.
If there's a way for us to feelgood about our fees and at the
(07:57):
same time make our patientssticky to the practice, whatever
that is, I'm all for it.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
We're talking about how it'smaking the patients feel and
it's an experience sort of thing.
But when we relate patientexperience to what our ultimate
goal is to get patients healthyI mean this is something that
helps them get healthy, becauseit helps them come to the
practice more they feel betterabout.
I mean they will go and theywill buy treatment because they
feel like they're getting a dealon it, which I mean they are.
(08:24):
You know they're getting in mypractice.
They're essentially getting thePPO price is what they're doing
.
So let's pivot a little bit.
Let's talk about just if anyrecommendations.
I mean I like to hear what youguys think like recommendations.
If you tried things and theydidn't work, or if you've
pivoted around, or if you justfound something that worked
right off the get-go, what didyou do, henry?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
If you're out there and you're thinking about doing
this.
Well, how do I start?
Like, what are some pitfalls?
First thing I would say is,from my understanding, there's
certain states actually have tohave a third party to do this.
I know my state does not, so Iwould highly recommend, if
you're in a state that does notdo it yourself, that's so much
(09:05):
money you're going to save.
It's not hard to do.
We do it all internally.
So first off, I would suggest Ithink I mentioned it before we
do it yearly.
It makes it simple.
One time you pay it.
Now, Again, no third party.
It's kind of like havinganother fee schedule.
So you know you have your feeschedule for different
insurances you're in.
You're going to have a dentalsavers plan fee schedule that'll
pop up if they have the dentalsavers plan.
You mentioned it before, Paul.
(09:25):
One way to do it is to say, hey, take a certain percentage all
the way off the top ofeverything.
I'll tell you what works for us.
So again, I mentioned marketing.
I went through it one time inthe very beginning, and I went
through the most common servicesthat we want to market, that we
want to put out there.
What are people looking forwhen they call you, maybe when
they went to another desk, howmuch is the crown, how much is
(09:46):
the root canal?
They don't ask you how much isa two-surface filling, how much
is a three right?
So we put certain things atvery marketable type prices.
Oh, you're just like aninsurance company.
Yeah, I'm all right, and allthe other ones.
We don't reduce it that much.
Right, that's the way we did it.
It takes a little bit moreeffort to do it that way, but we
did it in the beginning.
Because then people actuallysee, like the things they're
(10:08):
marketing for.
And here's the important partwhen you have a patient that
comes in let's say you have apatient that comes in with a
broken tooth on the doctor'sside, they're given two
different treatment plans andthey don't have insurance.
The first treatment plan is thebuildup in the crown, standard
treatment plan.
Here it is.
And then they're given a secondtreatment plan that says here's
the buildup in the crown, withour dental savers plan, which
(10:29):
includes two cleanings, twohygiene visits, and obviously
that's going to be more.
But then you're giving them thevalue of hey, we're also
getting you, you know, the twocleanings and if you come in
through the year you have ayear's worth of like emergency
care as far as diagnostics.
So they see the value in it andthink of it like this Now,
instead of just doing like a oneand done.
(10:50):
Now they're kind of married toyour office, right, they can't
use this anywhere else, theyhave to come to you.
So I like it in all thoseaspects and those are like the
little bullet points that workfor us.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I love that because it's like when insurance
companies you're like I want toleave, they're like, stay with
us, we've got this great feescheduled for you, here's a
great crown fee.
And then you're like, wow, thisis a really a lot better crown
fee.
But then you don't realizeeverything else, like the
preventative, all the hygienecodes suck ass, dude.
I love that.
That is a great idea.
All right, steve, what are yourthoughts on all that?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So we do use a third party.
I don't know if it's necessaryin the state of Massachusetts,
it's only cut out of ease of use.
We do have a monthly fee.
We have three categories ifit's kids, adults or perio, and
each one has a certain dollaramount.
I think it's like $29, $39, $49a month, something like that.
(11:43):
And then we do 20% off our UCRfees and again, I think there
was some hesitation from theteam in the beginning, like
anything that's new.
But when a patient comes up andup to the front and they get to
really feel good about whatthey're presenting, and then the
cherry on top is, if you takecare of this crown and you take
(12:05):
care of yourself better, here'san additional 20 off.
What a great way for the personwho's presenting that treatment
to confidently say this isgoing to benefit them.
So again, I think it's nice tohave it's for us.
It's not our main source ofpatients, but I feel like it's a
great benefit and a greatoption for the patients who may
(12:25):
otherwise feel that they need toleave your practice or don't
have insurance or their employerdoesn't offer dental insurance.
It's just another option.
When patients have options,they feel like they can make the
best decision for themselves.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Decision for themselves.
I don't know if you know whatyour numbers are, henry, but we
started this.
We're two and a half years inright now and we've got almost
like we're in the 900s with howmany people we have, which I
don't.
I guess that's a lot becauseI've told that to people they go
oh my God, 900.
But it's not a big part of mypractice.
I mean, it's like maybe 15% ofmy practice or something like
that.
I think we have some like 8,200active patients right now.
(12:59):
But it's a growing part of ourpractice and, like you mentioned
, how you present it, henry, iswe put it into our computer as
like a PPO plan.
So when we print out it showsup office fee, discount, your
fee, so they see all theirdiscounts that they're getting,
just like if we were to show thePPO write-off.
So we like to present it thatway.
(13:20):
But one thing that you talkedabout is like getting we were to
show the PPO write-off, so welike to present it that way.
But one thing that you talkedabout is like getting the team
to buy in.
How do we get the team to seethat this is beneficial to the
patient?
Because it really is Is, if youthink about it.
If someone's getting insurancethrough their job and they don't
have to pay anything out oftheir check for it, great, you
get your insurance, perfectly.
You get your little $1,200coupon that you get to use your
(13:43):
IOU every year.
But if someone's really payingfor it and you take those
premiums and you say, okay, well, like the add up of these
premiums is more than we're evencharging, and you look at like
what they get for it after theirtwo cleanings and then what's
left over, it's the exact samething, like it makes more sense
to be on the savers plan than itmeans to have the dental
insurance.
And if you could set it up away that that makes sense and
you could present it to yourteam and like show them the math
(14:05):
that it makes sense, they'regoing to be all for it.
Because that was the resistancethat I got from my team is that
they were like, well, I don'tknow, it just doesn't seem like
such a good idea.
It seems like something we werealready doing, but now we're
charging for it, which was true.
But once they saw howbeneficial it was to the patient
, they're like all for it.
And I think that's superimportant because with the team
buys into it.
They're going to want topresent it to the patients, and
(14:27):
that's our goal is to get morepeople sign up for it.
And I can tell you we don'tmarket for it and I think we
should.
And you just mentioning that,henry, made me think like why
are we not trying to get thesepatients?
These are the best ones, tryingto get these patients?
These are the best ones, theseare our best patients.
Screw insurance.
You know what my team's eyeslight up is when you come in and
you say I have no insurance.
We're like good F that we don'thave to file claims and deal
with that bullshit.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
That'll be a three-star Yelp review.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
They have Three stars .
I think it shows up the best.
I'm sure you've had thesepatients.
They come in and that samepatient that thinks they have to
have insurance just to walkinto your door and they don't
have a big company to work for,and they went on the market
themselves and they went tothese dental insurance companies
and I see the plans.
I'm like are you kidding me?
(15:09):
They're paying like 160 bucks amonth for something crazy like
that and they can't even get acrown for like a year or
something like that.
So when I see that stuff it'slike perfect illustration.
Listen, there's no third partyin the room, it's just us.
You need a crown tomorrow,you're getting it tomorrow.
We don't have to send outanything, it's just you and I.
So it works really good.
And once the word spreads likeyou become, a lot of people come
(15:31):
and they ask for that.
That's what I want, your saversplan.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah, you know, I'm going to say for listeners if
the listeners, anyone listening,wants to see what mine looks
like, check the show notes.
I will put a link up there foryou and you can download those
for free.
I'll give you what our termsare.
It's not a legal thing, don'tbe like.
Yeah, I legally checked allthis and made sure it was legal.
I'm not giving you advice, I'mjust showing you what I do.
I will tell you that what we do, that is very out of the
(16:06):
ordinary for membership plansand we wanted to make it as easy
as possible.
You get two cleanings.
You get how many x-rays do youget?
Whatever x-rays are associated?
And then we started off withwell, you get one limited
emergency exam.
And I said you know what we'regoing to do unlimited emergency
exams, unlimited.
My team goes you are crazy,people are going to be coming,
they're going to abuse the hellout of that.
Well, we're two and a halfyears in and nobody has abused
the unlimited emergency exams.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
We're 10 years in.
We do the same exact thing.
Nobody abuses it.
They come when they need it.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Nobody comes in for like lip massage.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
No, they come when they need to come in, and it's a
value that you can profess onthe front end.
You can come in whenever youneed it.
You got a broken tooth.
Because they're worried aboutthat too.
They think that I got a brokentooth.
I got to go to the dentist justto walk in.
It's going to be $300.
No, it's already covered.
So they're that much more aptto come in.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, the number one reason why the membership plan
has taken off for us has been wehave had patients who have been
part of our office for yearsand years and years, patients
that saw the previous doctorbefore we acquired it, patients
who saw my dad and then theyretire, and I think that was the
most heartbreaking part of therelationship when they felt like
I don't want to come once ayear I'm on a fixed income now
(17:14):
and be able to be able to say orI lost my dental insurance, to
be able to say and present no,you can still be part of our
family.
This is how we're going to takecare of you.
It's going to be similar towhat you were doing previously.
That gave them the opportunityto easily buy in because they
wanted to make sure that theyweren't losing these patients.
So I think that was the baitthat the team needed to be able
to say this thing's going towork.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Interesting enough is , when we dropped Delta and it
was in our PPO contract, that wecould not try to persuade the
patient or some sort I don'tremember what the term like what
it actually said, but we can'tpersuade the patient to explore
other insurance options, which Ithought was funny, because
Delta came back with like, hey,we saw your letter about you
(17:56):
dropping us and we mentioned hey, look what, we've got this
beautiful in-house savers plan,you know.
And they were like that is inviolation of your agreement.
And I was like, show me.
And they showed me what didthey do about it?
They did a bunch of threats andstuff and then they made a stay
in network for another five orsix months so they could decide
what they wanted to do.
And then nothing came from it.
And, and it was nice, and theynever sent a letter to my
(18:18):
patients, which I was surprised.
I don't know if that's astate-by-state thing, but they
did not do that when we droppedDelta.
But my point is we have had alot of our Delta patients just
because they were paying out ofpocket for it their premiums
they just dropped it and joinedthe plan.
They're like this is better andit is, and I think that's
another thing, for I thinkthere's a culture, cultural
(18:40):
shift happening with dentists.
We are dropping Delta.
It seems like that, at leastone, from looking on the
internet.
I have no nothing, no numbersto back that up, but that's how
you know it's right when it's onthe internet.
Of course.
Yeah, well, that's why I takeget all my dental advice from
Facebook groups, because that'swhere I find the most bright,
the biggest, the best andbrightest dentists are there
(19:00):
guys and the ones with the mostopen minds, the most open minds
out there too.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yes, but I would say, go to one of those groups type
in membership land and you'llsee the people who have posted
what's worked for them.
It's a good place to start.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, I think it's.
Keep it simple, the more simpleyou could keep it.
Ours is we've got one level,it's it.
If you're a kid, should it becheaper?
No, man, you get fluoride,fluoride's included.
That's how we keep it the same.
So that's just how we do it.
We have three different levels,like Steve.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I just I was trying to like not overwhelm my team,
but I don't know if I'll everchange it.
I do see a use for moremultiple levels, especially for
the perio people.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
That is something we had to talk about.
They're like how would thepatient know if they have perio?
And like what if they sign uponline for a standard?
And that's happened once.
Well, you know what we had comeup, and then we just have a
conversation with them.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
We had come up the other day as we had a patient
that came in.
They used our new patientspecial no insurance and their
perio and they didn't want toget their perio and they didn't
get their cleaning and theywanted to get well, I want part
of my new patient money back,because and my team was like
well, it's kind of like we justcharge for the visit, it's just
(20:10):
a visit fee and we ended updoing we did give this person
some money back.
But the thing was is this becamelike one of those topics that
you spend 20 minutes on in ameeting and it's happened one
time ever, and so pretty much wefigured out what we're going to
do with that.
But what we wrapped it up as is, if someone is going to follow
(20:31):
through with their four quads ofSRP, they're going to save more
money than it's going to costthem to join the plan and then
get two of theirperio-maintenances covered a
year.
It's just like we've got to setit up in a way that it's like a
no brainer.
I've seen some people that setit up.
It's like a 5% discount andit's like oh big deal, but I
think you could set it up in away that it really makes sense
and I do see the value in it.
(20:51):
So closing thoughts, henry,Membership plan.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I think it's good for your practice.
It's a good marketing tool.
You're going to help morepeople, steven.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I'll listen to Paul and Henry about what to do with
the membership plan and you willbe better off.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And I would just close off saying I was a late
adopter and I have changed myviews on it.
It was totally worth it.
So if you're looking at thatand you do want to get my
documents, do check the shownotes.
You can go to a web.
I got a landing page set up andyou can get that, download that
and check out mine and makeyour own.
All right, Thank you everybodyso much for listening, Really
appreciate it.
And if you're looking for morestuff like this and how to
(21:28):
systematize your practice sothat you can make more money,
take more time off and spendmore time doing the things you
love, please check out ourwebsite dentalpracticeheroescom.
Thank you so much.
We'll talk to.
You don't need to turn away good patients just
because they don't haveinsurance, and if you don't have
a solution for these patients,like a membership plan, you
might be doing that without evenknowing.
Today, we're going to betalking about why membership
plans are good for your practiceand how to get the patients to
actually buy into it.
You're going to learn whatmembership plans include, how to
(00:22):
price it right for yourpatients and the easiest way to
get your team on board.
Now, membership plans they area win-win for you and your
patients and your practice.
So stick around.
We're going to give you a lotof ideas to create your own or,
if you already have one, a fewideas of things you might want
to change.
Stay tuned.
You are listening to DentalPractice Heroes, where we help
you to create a team andsystem-driven dental practice,
(00:45):
one that allowed you to practiceless and make more money.
I'm Dr Paul Etcheson, a dentalcoach, author of two books on
dental practice management andthe owner of a five-doctor
practice in the South suburbs ofChicago.
I wanna show you how beingintentional about ownership can
create a practice that supportsyour life instead of consuming
it.
So if you're ready to create atrue business that runs without
you.
You're in the right place.
(01:06):
Let's get started.
Hi there and welcome back tothe Dental Practice Heroes
podcast.
I am your host, dr PaulEtcheson.
I'm joined by Dr SteveMarkowitz, multi-practice owner
outside Boston, and Dr HenryErnst, a large 18-op practice in
North Carolina.
Welcome back, guys.
(01:28):
How are you today?
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Doing awesome.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Paul, thanks for that lovely clear introduction yeah,
one line, one line to describeyou.
Speaker 3 (01:36):
Professional to the T , as always, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
The listeners won't know how much just got edited
out right there of me trying tosay one line about Steve and one
line about Henry and it's keptjust getting smaller and smaller
.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
It's all smoke and mirrors as long as we get to
talk about whatever we get totalk about here on the podcast.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well, what are we talking about today, guys?
Steven?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
You said you wanted to talk about membership plans
and how they can help ourpractices, and I am excited to
see where we can take this,because I don't got a ton other
than I know we have one.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
You were jumping at this one.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Jumping at it.
Yeah, we are jumping.
We have never talked aboutmembership plans and I think
it's a good one because,honestly, this was something
that I heard about.
I mean, my practice has beenopen since 2012.
I heard about it.
You should have a membershipplan.
You should have a membershipplan and I'll tell the listeners
what we used to do is, if youhad cash, we just gave you 15%
off because you didn't haveinsurance.
(02:31):
It's stupid that we have toplay this game that we have to
overbloat the fees that we woulddesire because we want to send
big fees to the PPOs.
But I delayed doing this for avery long time and when we did
roll it out, it was very good.
So it was like I think it'sgoing to be awesome to talk
about because it's been a goodthing.
But let's go to you first,henry.
I mean, you've got a membershipplan.
Like, should you have it?
(02:53):
And if you do believe that,what do you believe should be
contained in it?
Like, what do you guys have andfound that worked for you?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
So I'm the value to it and so we just instituted it
right from the beginning, and Ifeel like there's a few
different things that it bringsto the table.
Number one is accountability.
In all of our marketing wealways advertise that we have an
in-house and you can't call itinsurance.
That's a big thing.
It's an in-house membershipplan or we call it a dental
savers plan.
So in all of our marketing weprobably put like five or six
(03:30):
procedures that are prettycommon and we'll have that old
thing that says you know, commonprice, our price.
And so people sometimes willcome in.
They'll say, wow, you actuallyput the price out there for a
crown.
Nobody else does that.
Right, it's like a hidden thingNobody wants to say so I feel
like that gets people to come in.
Just from that, I can't tell youhow many people will avoid the
(03:52):
dentist because they don't haveinsurance.
How many times have you guysheard that when people say it's
been about six years since I'vegone to the dentist.
Were you nervous, were youscared?
No, I just didn't haveinsurance.
So people just think that it'slike if you go into the
dentist's office withoutinsurance, they're going to hit
you over the head with asledgehammer.
It's going to be like $5,000.
(04:13):
So the nice thing about amembership plan is you give them
that warm fuzzy feeling offeeling like they have insurance
but they have a membership plan.
And it's always nice to tellyour patients like, listen, you
know a lot of our patients don'thave insurance.
That's why we offer this.
There's no third party, it'sjust you and I.
And if you have to come in inthe middle of the year for a
broken tooth, the x-ray and examis already covered.
You get your two hygiene visitsjust like insurance.
(04:35):
So it gives people that warmfuzzy feeling and it's really
great for these families thatdon't have insurance.
And it's a nice revenue streama little bit because, like
everybody does it differently,we do ours up front.
Ours is like $300.
It's like 307 or something likethat per year and you pay it
now and it's good for a year.
(04:55):
So I know other people talkabout, you know, getting into
the doohickeys of it, likegetting into monthly and all
this stuff.
We have them pay once a year.
So it's nice, we get that upfront and, like I said, you get
a nice stable practice growthfrom it in my opinion.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
I've had the same experience and what was funny
with me is our team, or ourpatients, were doing the same
thing.
They essentially were gettingthe exact same deal.
It was they were getting 15%off just for showing up, and
then we decided to make we madeour plan 20% off, but we also
had a fee increase right at thesame time too.
So it was essentially the samething, but it was amazing how
(05:29):
many patients were like, oh mygosh, when did you guys start
doing this?
This is great, this is amazing,and it's true because I think
people feel guilty, like youcan't go to the dentist without
dental insurance and now yougive them a reason that they can
continue to come.
I want to read a two-star Yelpreview I just got last week and
it just makes me look.
I mean, this is, if you'redriving in the morning to work
(05:51):
and you want to be infuriated,get ready, because this is the
stuff that just drives mebananas, all right.
So went in there for a crown afew years back.
Their eyes light up when theysaw my insurance coverage.
I could tell, like we'relighting up, like oh my God,
dude, he's got this, guy's gotunion insurance and it's so good
.
We're like we're gonna buildthe hell out of it.
That's what he's thinking.
Anyway, fast forward to early2025, after a crown blows out, I
(06:12):
go in for service.
After a few questions of themasking if I've seen any other
dentists a few years back, andmultiple times we're asking Now,
asking if he's seen multipledentists here's this is why A
day later, when I'm getting thistooth pulled, I hear the
assistant say out loud I see,you were just in for a cleaning.
So, long story short, I was notin for a cleaning.
(06:33):
Even I get to per yearInsurance fraud.
I knew it.
So this guy literally thinks weare sending.
We saw how good his insurancewas.
Then we checked to see hey, man, you been anywhere else Because
we're going to kind of rip offyour insurance.
So people literally think likethe insurance is everything.
So now, even though we can'tsay it's not insurance or it's
(06:53):
insurance or whatever, we'vegiven them the non-insurance
insurance plan so they can comesee us, and that's been my
experience too.
So to answer the question,should you do it?
I think so.
I've seen it with my patients.
It's been very easy and I thinkit'd be great to talk about how
we're doing it.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
I agree completely.
I think it's something thatmost all offices should have.
But to piggyback on what bothof you guys were saying, it's
not that.
It's just a warm and fuzzyfeeling of having a discount
plan or something like insurance.
Patients don't actually thinkthey can walk into the building
if you don't accept theirinsurance Right.
So this opens that door of like, yes, it's okay, you can come
in and we can treat you, andthen, in addition, here's a
(07:35):
little bit of incentive for youto come in and get healthier,
get your cleanings and get takecare of that work.
I'm sure all these thirdparties will tell you about
people with membership plans.
Do 18.6% more dentistry.
I don't buy any of that crap, Idon't know, but what I do know
is dentistry is expensive.
If there's a way for us to feelgood about our fees and at the
(07:57):
same time make our patientssticky to the practice, whatever
that is, I'm all for it.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
We're talking about how it'smaking the patients feel and
it's an experience sort of thing.
But when we relate patientexperience to what our ultimate
goal is to get patients healthyI mean this is something that
helps them get healthy, becauseit helps them come to the
practice more they feel betterabout.
I mean they will go and theywill buy treatment because they
feel like they're getting a dealon it, which I mean they are.
(08:24):
You know they're getting in mypractice.
They're essentially getting thePPO price is what they're doing
.
So let's pivot a little bit.
Let's talk about just if anyrecommendations.
I mean I like to hear what youguys think like recommendations.
If you tried things and theydidn't work, or if you've
pivoted around, or if you justfound something that worked
right off the get-go, what didyou do, henry?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
If you're out there and you're thinking about doing
this.
Well, how do I start?
Like, what are some pitfalls?
First thing I would say is,from my understanding, there's
certain states actually have tohave a third party to do this.
I know my state does not, so Iwould highly recommend, if
you're in a state that does notdo it yourself, that's so much
(09:05):
money you're going to save.
It's not hard to do.
We do it all internally.
So first off, I would suggest Ithink I mentioned it before we
do it yearly.
It makes it simple.
One time you pay it.
Now, Again, no third party.
It's kind of like havinganother fee schedule.
So you know you have your feeschedule for different
insurances you're in.
You're going to have a dentalsavers plan fee schedule that'll
pop up if they have the dentalsavers plan.
You mentioned it before, Paul.
(09:25):
One way to do it is to say, hey, take a certain percentage all
the way off the top ofeverything.
I'll tell you what works for us.
So again, I mentioned marketing.
I went through it one time inthe very beginning, and I went
through the most common servicesthat we want to market, that we
want to put out there.
What are people looking forwhen they call you, maybe when
they went to another desk, howmuch is the crown, how much is
(09:46):
the root canal?
They don't ask you how much isa two-surface filling, how much
is a three right?
So we put certain things atvery marketable type prices.
Oh, you're just like aninsurance company.
Yeah, I'm all right, and allthe other ones.
We don't reduce it that much.
Right, that's the way we did it.
It takes a little bit moreeffort to do it that way, but we
did it in the beginning.
Because then people actuallysee, like the things they're
(10:08):
marketing for.
And here's the important partwhen you have a patient that
comes in let's say you have apatient that comes in with a
broken tooth on the doctor'sside, they're given two
different treatment plans andthey don't have insurance.
The first treatment plan is thebuildup in the crown, standard
treatment plan.
Here it is.
And then they're given a secondtreatment plan that says here's
the buildup in the crown, withour dental savers plan, which
(10:29):
includes two cleanings, twohygiene visits, and obviously
that's going to be more.
But then you're giving them thevalue of hey, we're also
getting you, you know, the twocleanings and if you come in
through the year you have ayear's worth of like emergency
care as far as diagnostics.
So they see the value in it andthink of it like this Now,
instead of just doing like a oneand done.
(10:50):
Now they're kind of married toyour office, right, they can't
use this anywhere else, theyhave to come to you.
So I like it in all thoseaspects and those are like the
little bullet points that workfor us.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
I love that because it's like when insurance
companies you're like I want toleave, they're like, stay with
us, we've got this great feescheduled for you, here's a
great crown fee.
And then you're like, wow, thisis a really a lot better crown
fee.
But then you don't realizeeverything else, like the
preventative, all the hygienecodes suck ass, dude.
I love that.
That is a great idea.
All right, steve, what are yourthoughts on all that?
Speaker 2 (11:21):
So we do use a third party.
I don't know if it's necessaryin the state of Massachusetts,
it's only cut out of ease of use.
We do have a monthly fee.
We have three categories ifit's kids, adults or perio, and
each one has a certain dollaramount.
I think it's like $29, $39, $49a month, something like that.
(11:43):
And then we do 20% off our UCRfees and again, I think there
was some hesitation from theteam in the beginning, like
anything that's new.
But when a patient comes up andup to the front and they get to
really feel good about whatthey're presenting, and then the
cherry on top is, if you takecare of this crown and you take
(12:05):
care of yourself better, here'san additional 20 off.
What a great way for the personwho's presenting that treatment
to confidently say this isgoing to benefit them.
So again, I think it's nice tohave it's for us.
It's not our main source ofpatients, but I feel like it's a
great benefit and a greatoption for the patients who may
(12:25):
otherwise feel that they need toleave your practice or don't
have insurance or their employerdoesn't offer dental insurance.
It's just another option.
When patients have options,they feel like they can make the
best decision for themselves.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Decision for themselves.
I don't know if you know whatyour numbers are, henry, but we
started this.
We're two and a half years inright now and we've got almost
like we're in the 900s with howmany people we have, which I
don't.
I guess that's a lot becauseI've told that to people they go
oh my God, 900.
But it's not a big part of mypractice.
I mean, it's like maybe 15% ofmy practice or something like
that.
I think we have some like 8,200active patients right now.
(12:59):
But it's a growing part of ourpractice and, like you mentioned
, how you present it, henry, iswe put it into our computer as
like a PPO plan.
So when we print out it showsup office fee, discount, your
fee, so they see all theirdiscounts that they're getting,
just like if we were to show thePPO write-off.
So we like to present it thatway.
(13:20):
But one thing that you talkedabout is like getting we were to
show the PPO write-off, so welike to present it that way.
But one thing that you talkedabout is like getting the team
to buy in.
How do we get the team to seethat this is beneficial to the
patient?
Because it really is Is, if youthink about it.
If someone's getting insurancethrough their job and they don't
have to pay anything out oftheir check for it, great, you
get your insurance, perfectly.
You get your little $1,200coupon that you get to use your
(13:43):
IOU every year.
But if someone's really payingfor it and you take those
premiums and you say, okay, well, like the add up of these
premiums is more than we're evencharging, and you look at like
what they get for it after theirtwo cleanings and then what's
left over, it's the exact samething, like it makes more sense
to be on the savers plan than itmeans to have the dental
insurance.
And if you could set it up away that that makes sense and
you could present it to yourteam and like show them the math
(14:05):
that it makes sense, they'regoing to be all for it.
Because that was the resistancethat I got from my team is that
they were like, well, I don'tknow, it just doesn't seem like
such a good idea.
It seems like something we werealready doing, but now we're
charging for it, which was true.
But once they saw howbeneficial it was to the patient
, they're like all for it.
And I think that's superimportant because with the team
buys into it.
They're going to want topresent it to the patients, and
(14:27):
that's our goal is to get morepeople sign up for it.
And I can tell you we don'tmarket for it and I think we
should.
And you just mentioning that,henry, made me think like why
are we not trying to get thesepatients?
These are the best ones, tryingto get these patients?
These are the best ones, theseare our best patients.
Screw insurance.
You know what my team's eyeslight up is when you come in and
you say I have no insurance.
We're like good F that we don'thave to file claims and deal
with that bullshit.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
That'll be a three-star Yelp review.
Speaker 3 (14:49):
They have Three stars .
I think it shows up the best.
I'm sure you've had thesepatients.
They come in and that samepatient that thinks they have to
have insurance just to walkinto your door and they don't
have a big company to work for,and they went on the market
themselves and they went tothese dental insurance companies
and I see the plans.
I'm like are you kidding me?
(15:09):
They're paying like 160 bucks amonth for something crazy like
that and they can't even get acrown for like a year or
something like that.
So when I see that stuff it'slike perfect illustration.
Listen, there's no third partyin the room, it's just us.
You need a crown tomorrow,you're getting it tomorrow.
We don't have to send outanything, it's just you and I.
So it works really good.
And once the word spreads likeyou become, a lot of people come
(15:31):
and they ask for that.
That's what I want, your saversplan.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Yeah, you know, I'm going to say for listeners if
the listeners, anyone listening,wants to see what mine looks
like, check the show notes.
I will put a link up there foryou and you can download those
for free.
I'll give you what our termsare.
It's not a legal thing, don'tbe like.
Yeah, I legally checked allthis and made sure it was legal.
I'm not giving you advice, I'mjust showing you what I do.
I will tell you that what we do, that is very out of the
(16:06):
ordinary for membership plansand we wanted to make it as easy
as possible.
You get two cleanings.
You get how many x-rays do youget?
Whatever x-rays are associated?
And then we started off withwell, you get one limited
emergency exam.
And I said you know what we'regoing to do unlimited emergency
exams, unlimited.
My team goes you are crazy,people are going to be coming,
they're going to abuse the hellout of that.
Well, we're two and a halfyears in and nobody has abused
the unlimited emergency exams.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
We're 10 years in.
We do the same exact thing.
Nobody abuses it.
They come when they need it.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Nobody comes in for like lip massage.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
No, they come when they need to come in, and it's a
value that you can profess onthe front end.
You can come in whenever youneed it.
You got a broken tooth.
Because they're worried aboutthat too.
They think that I got a brokentooth.
I got to go to the dentist justto walk in.
It's going to be $300.
No, it's already covered.
So they're that much more aptto come in.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, the number one reason why the membership plan
has taken off for us has been wehave had patients who have been
part of our office for yearsand years and years, patients
that saw the previous doctorbefore we acquired it, patients
who saw my dad and then theyretire, and I think that was the
most heartbreaking part of therelationship when they felt like
I don't want to come once ayear I'm on a fixed income now
(17:14):
and be able to be able to say orI lost my dental insurance, to
be able to say and present no,you can still be part of our
family.
This is how we're going to takecare of you.
It's going to be similar towhat you were doing previously.
That gave them the opportunityto easily buy in because they
wanted to make sure that theyweren't losing these patients.
So I think that was the baitthat the team needed to be able
to say this thing's going towork.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Interesting enough is , when we dropped Delta and it
was in our PPO contract, that wecould not try to persuade the
patient or some sort I don'tremember what the term like what
it actually said, but we can'tpersuade the patient to explore
other insurance options, which Ithought was funny, because
Delta came back with like, hey,we saw your letter about you
(17:56):
dropping us and we mentioned hey, look what, we've got this
beautiful in-house savers plan,you know.
And they were like that is inviolation of your agreement.
And I was like, show me.
And they showed me what didthey do about it?
They did a bunch of threats andstuff and then they made a stay
in network for another five orsix months so they could decide
what they wanted to do.
And then nothing came from it.
And, and it was nice, and theynever sent a letter to my
(18:18):
patients, which I was surprised.
I don't know if that's astate-by-state thing, but they
did not do that when we droppedDelta.
But my point is we have had alot of our Delta patients just
because they were paying out ofpocket for it their premiums
they just dropped it and joinedthe plan.
They're like this is better andit is, and I think that's
another thing, for I thinkthere's a culture, cultural
(18:40):
shift happening with dentists.
We are dropping Delta.
It seems like that, at leastone, from looking on the
internet.
I have no nothing, no numbersto back that up, but that's how
you know it's right when it's onthe internet.
Of course.
Yeah, well, that's why I takeget all my dental advice from
Facebook groups, because that'swhere I find the most bright,
the biggest, the best andbrightest dentists are there
(19:00):
guys and the ones with the mostopen minds, the most open minds
out there too.
Speaker 2 (19:04):
Yes, but I would say, go to one of those groups type
in membership land and you'llsee the people who have posted
what's worked for them.
It's a good place to start.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah, I think it's.
Keep it simple, the more simpleyou could keep it.
Ours is we've got one level,it's it.
If you're a kid, should it becheaper?
No, man, you get fluoride,fluoride's included.
That's how we keep it the same.
So that's just how we do it.
We have three different levels,like Steve.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
I just I was trying to like not overwhelm my team,
but I don't know if I'll everchange it.
I do see a use for moremultiple levels, especially for
the perio people.
Speaker 2 (19:38):
That is something we had to talk about.
They're like how would thepatient know if they have perio?
And like what if they sign uponline for a standard?
And that's happened once.
Well, you know what we had comeup, and then we just have a
conversation with them.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
We had come up the other day as we had a patient
that came in.
They used our new patientspecial no insurance and their
perio and they didn't want toget their perio and they didn't
get their cleaning and theywanted to get well, I want part
of my new patient money back,because and my team was like
well, it's kind of like we justcharge for the visit, it's just
(20:10):
a visit fee and we ended updoing we did give this person
some money back.
But the thing was is this becamelike one of those topics that
you spend 20 minutes on in ameeting and it's happened one
time ever, and so pretty much wefigured out what we're going to
do with that.
But what we wrapped it up as is, if someone is going to follow
(20:31):
through with their four quads ofSRP, they're going to save more
money than it's going to costthem to join the plan and then
get two of theirperio-maintenances covered a
year.
It's just like we've got to setit up in a way that it's like a
no brainer.
I've seen some people that setit up.
It's like a 5% discount andit's like oh big deal, but I
think you could set it up in away that it really makes sense
and I do see the value in it.
(20:51):
So closing thoughts, henry,Membership plan.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
I think it's good for your practice.
It's a good marketing tool.
You're going to help morepeople, steven.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I'll listen to Paul and Henry about what to do with
the membership plan and you willbe better off.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
And I would just close off saying I was a late
adopter and I have changed myviews on it.
It was totally worth it.
So if you're looking at thatand you do want to get my
documents, do check the shownotes.
You can go to a web.
I got a landing page set up andyou can get that, download that
and check out mine and makeyour own.
All right, Thank you everybodyso much for listening, Really
appreciate it.
And if you're looking for morestuff like this and how to
(21:28):
systematize your practice sothat you can make more money,
take more time off and spendmore time doing the things you
love, please check out ourwebsite dentalpracticeheroescom.
Thank you so much.
We'll talk to.
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