Ep. 725 - Craft, Community, and Calls: Doug Nelson at Reelfoot Lake - Ducks Unlimited Podcast

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
VO (01:41):
Can we do a mic check, please? Everybody, welcome back
to the Ducks Unlimited podcast.I'm your host, doctor Mike
Brazier. I'm your host, KatieBurke. I'm your host, doctor
Jared Hemphith. And I'm yourhost, Matt Harrison.
Welcome to the Ducks Unlimitedpodcast, the only podcast about

(02:03):
all things waterfowl. Fromhunting insights to science
based discussions about ducks,geese, and issues affecting
waterfowl and wetlandsconservation in North America.
The DU podcast, sponsored byPurina Pro Plan, the official
performance dog food of DucksUnlimited. Purina Pro Plan,
always advancing. Also proudlysponsored by Bird Dog Whiskey

(02:24):
and Cocktails.
Whether you're winding down withyour best friend or celebrating
with your favorite crew, BirdDog brings award winning flavor
to every moment. Enjoy

Katie Burke (02:47):
Welcome back to the Ducks Unlimited podcast. I'm
your host Katie Burke. And todayon the show, I have call maker
Doug Nelson. Welcome to theshow.

Doug Nelson (02:56):
Thanks, Katie. Thanks for having me.

Yep. We have to mention where we are because
this is we're not in studio.You're not you're not at home
calling me. So Nope. We are atReal Foot Lake, and what is
going on here this weekend?

The Real Foot Waterfowl Festival.

Okay. So how long has that been going on? Do you
know?

You have to talk to some other guys for at least
thirty years, I think. Thirtyyears. Yeah. Annual event.

And have call makers always been coming to
that event?

It is it's put on by the Callmaker and Collector
Association of America, and theycome from all over the country.
I think today we got peoplecoming from Colorado, Florida,
all around here, the East Coast,just a little gathering of of
people getting together to sharetheir knowledge and have fun.

Yeah. So this has always been put on by the call
makers? Yes. Yeah. Okay.
I have never been to Real FootLake, which is crazy.

I know. Quite a history.

But I don't live that far away. I knew this was
going on. And this so this isprobably, I would assume, the
oldest call making gatheringbecause I I don't know. Is it
old? I I don't know how longy'all have been going to
Chicago, but I think this mightbe longer.
We'll have to ask I

started coming here, I think, 2013. Okay. You
know? And it's just beenwonderful because I've built
lifelong friendships. I'velearned so much.
You can be in your own shopworking, but when you get
together with this many supertalented people, the knowledge

(04:27):
just flows.

Yeah.

And Yeah. I've already learned some things just
being here a couple hours. It'slike, wow. Yeah.

No. It's interesting. And we talk about
that a lot, and we can talkabout that more later, but we
talk about that a lot in regardsto, like, when you collect
decoys and stuff. Like like, thebiggest advice I think anybody
gives when it comes to anythinglike this is, like, go see the
stuff. Go pick it up.
Go talk to those people. Youknow, that tends to be the most,

(04:54):
like, advice anyone givesbecause you can look at stuff
especially now, people look atstuff online and everything, but
it's not the same. No. It'llnever be the same.

You know, unlike when I was a kid growing up, all
we could buy was false calls andold calls. There was nothing
else. And I was in Colorado, andso I was I had never heard of
call making competitions. Youknow? I heard about the
Stuttgart, you know,championship and stuff, but I
was really removed from all ofthat.

(05:23):
And you you know, you can't justwalk in a store and pick up a
duck call and blow it becausepeople like different duck
calls. Everybody blows themdifferent. So you gotta find
something that fits you. Andthat's what I love about here.
If you wanna go find a reallygood call that fits you, there's
a probably 30 call makers downthere.
You can go test their stuff andhave a look. You know?

Yeah. That's cool. So does it mostly just to kinda
give a little bit idea, is itmostly call makers that do more
that do more the wooden,laminated, and carved calls
here, or is there also just likethe acrylic stuff as well? Is it
is it both?

A little above. A little bit both. But more custom
people.

Custom. Okay.

More small shop guys. And you know, they're not
in it in the business so much asit's just a myriad of
everything. For most of them,they're hobbyists, and but there
are quite a few very successful

Yeah.

Lawmakers here.

Yeah. And that's unique about this because as
well, like, when you go to CallPalooza, I would say it leans a
little more toward less towardsthe custom and more towards the

Right. Yeah. And and this is a different format.
This is three you know, two tothree days of just just sit with
people and shoot the bull andhave a great time and build
friendships, and and it just allflows together. It's just a
relaxed atmosphere, which isunusual versus the big shows.

Yeah. And it's so pretty here. Like, you're right
here on the lake, and Yeah. It'sreally nice setting.

And then we have a competition for the best
sounding calls, and they haveprofessional and amateur
division. Okay. And there's allyou win is a ribbon. You know,
there's no money involved.There's bragging Yeah.
Bragging rights. And that's whatmakes it fun. Yeah.

Yeah. And now you're doing it with your these
are your like, that's one thingI don't I try to, like, tell
people that I didn't knowbecause I came in from the Ducks
Unlimited side which has this itin itself between volunteers
has, a big community side to it.Like, there is, like, it's, I
mean, it's a part of my familyand always has been. Yeah. But

(07:32):
this also has that community aswell.
It's just they don't necessarilyare the same. Like, you can get
the same community there as youcan. It's a little bit different
here, but it also has a very bigcommunity, a lot of friends.

Oh, yeah.

These peep yeah. Everyone here is, like, friendly
and

It's It's The the thing that I think I like the
most is my mentors are here, andI mentor people here. We're all
sharing our knowledge, you know,and, it's priceless. Yeah. Where
else can you go to get togetherwith that many people? There are
such talented individuals hereand a lot of stuff that

(08:09):
everybody's unique.
We're all woodworkers or ormetal shop workers or or
artists, basically, buteverybody's got a different way
of doing Everybody's got theirown little handmade jig that
they make this or they makethat, and you share the
knowledge and it's it's like,wow. I haven't thought of that,

you know,

and it is just fun.

That's really cool. Alright. So let's go back and
let's talk kind of how you gotinto all of this. So where did
you grow up?

I grew up around Greeley, Colorado. Okay. My dad
didn't hunt. My brother-in-lawwas a hunter safety instructor.
He took me under his wing,started me shooting guns about
nine years old, and and hedidn't hunt ducks or geese
either.
But I I had a a junior highoutdoor rec teacher that took me

(09:00):
under his wing to show me duckhunting, and he was an old guy.
His dad was a market hunter. Hisgrandpa was a market hunter.

Where? Back Back no. Back east. I'll stay. Okay.

Yeah. And he was even telling me stories about
using live decoys. Yeah. And hehad one rule in his blind was
don't shoot a hen or you're notcoming back because they grew up
when there were no ducks. Yep.
No. And he taught me a lot. And,you know, so I blew a few duck

(09:34):
calls and stuff. And my firstduck hunt was great. My grandpa
took me out and I was, I think,11.
And I had saved up and boughtsix decoys, mowing lawns and
stuff. And I took my six decoysand my little folks WA33 call,
and I went down to this littlewarm water slough along the

(09:55):
South Platte River, threw mydecoys out. My grandpa took a
nap in the car about 300 yardsaway, and I wasn't there five
minutes and here came a flock ofwidget right past me and I'm all
You know, everybody starts outwith H and R single shot 20
gauge.

Oh yeah.

I stood up and I popped the most beautiful Drake
Widgin you ever saw.

That's a good first duck.

I was so excited. I went back and woke my grandpa up
and held that up to the window.Oh my God, I was hooked for
life. Yeah. Know?
That's a good first duck. Yeah.And duck hunting was great back
in the seventies because wecould get out of high school and
run down and knock on the doorand sure boys shut the gate when
you're done. Yeah. Now thoseplaces are $25 a year at least.

(10:39):
It's all gone, But I was glad tobe able to experience it.

Yeah. You know, there's a little bit of that. My
brother lived in Casper,Wyoming.

Oh, sure. I know it well.

Yeah. And he we still did it when I would go up.
We could still hunt that waybecause there's just not

Hunt the North Platte River.

Yeah. There's just not enough duck hunters up there
Yeah. That people weren'tlooking for. But you just drive
around your truck, and you seethem going into a little
wherever their eye it wasn'tfrozen.

Right.

And then you go knock on someone door, they're
like, yeah. It's fun.

Sure. You know? And and things changed. Colorado had
never had Canada geese Yep.Because they always went to New
Mexico.
Right. And and we short stoppedthem. A guy named Gurney
Crawford started with a flock ofa 100 captive geese on College
Lake in Fort Collins. And thatgrew into the geese stopping

(11:30):
there. Yep.
And I remember the very firstgoose season in Colorado, they
gave you six neck tags.

Okay. Yeah. When you

used up those, you were done. Yeah. And I think I
was 14, and I I paid $10 tolease a box blind right across
from the big refuge in Windsor,Colorado Yeah. In Severns,
Colorado. And my first, youknow, it was past shooting.
I was by myself, 14 years old,my 12 gauge sitting in that box
and here came a flock of geeseand I dropped one. And I

(12:00):
remember shooting it. I don'teven remember. All I remember is
seeing it hit the ground and Iwas, my god, my mom come out to
pick me up. I was my goose.
I was so excited. So then Iturned into a goose hunter.
Yeah. Because the duck huntinggradually has gone away for you
know, winter to leased up andeverything, and but we could
still hunt Canada geese. Nowthey have around 300,000 to

(12:21):
400,000 that winter there.
Yeah. Fantastic.

Yeah. It's really interesting. So we just actually
did a big book, and project onCanada geese and their story and
how, now it's interesting tothink about because, like, we
it's it also goes with this bigdecoy collection, and there's no
decoys from that area. There'sno, like, decoys in the Central

Yeah.

Flyaway, but the history of the Central Flyaway
and goose hunting is sointeresting conservation wise.
It completely changed. It justit was I mean, at one point,
they were killing geese in,like, South Texas, and now they
went away. And now they'rekilling them, like, you know,
they weren't killing them atall. Now they

you're talking Things change.

Oh, yeah. Those are the most adaptable birds.

Yes.

They will they will fig they will be around before
we're gone. Like, they are soadaptable.

They are, I've done a lot of work with Canada geese.
Yeah. You know? I banded ducksfor Game and Fish for a long
time. I banded 12,000 ducks onesummer.

Oh, wow. Yeah. That's lot of work.

Yeah. It was ten days on and four days off. And I
think I caught two seventy bluewing teal in one trap at one
time. It took me like four orfive hours to ban them all. That
was fun, but I learned a lot.
The call making, I never thoughtI'd be a call maker.

Yeah. When did you skipping ahead, but when did you
even know that it was a thing tomake calls? Because, like,
that's well, I mean, as someonewho grew up in Mississippi, we
don't really have a decoy makingor a call make I mean, they do
now. There's more call makers inthat area now, but there's just
not really a history of it inthe Delta. So I didn't realize

(14:03):
until I was in my twenties, latea lot later.

So I was never exposed to it

at all.

Well, my wife and I were both woodworkers. I mean,
we'd been woodworking. I boughther a router and that started
it. Then it was a chop saw. Andnow we have a full woodshop.
Okay. And I don't know, 02/2005,Ed Glenn, they came out with a

(14:28):
book on making duck calls. Okay.And we were down at the
woodworkers show and I saw thatbook and I picked it up and I
looked at that and I thought, ohheck, I already got all the
tools to do that. Give me thatbook.
You know? The first goose call Imade worked, and I was hooked.
Yeah. That was it. I became agoose call guy.
Yeah. I just I

mean, you were goose hunting. So Yeah. That
makes sense. Yeah. So did youkill a goose with that first
like, when you took it out thatfirst call, or did it take a
little bit?

I don't remember.

You don't remember?

Yeah. No. You know? But because I couldn't blow a
short read worth of for worth ofbeing. Yeah.
And then I had some mentors. Youknow, one of my guide and
outfitter guys showed me somestuff, and I gradually worked
into it. But once I could makeone that worked, I had so much
fun, you know, because I'd justgo out and it was a hobby, just

(15:19):
something to goof around with,you know? And duck calls are a
completely different thing. Duckcalls frustrated me.
I threw away buckets full ofinserts trying to make a duck
call. And I had no mentors outin Colorado to help me. Right.
You know? And I'd come here tothe contest and I'd show the
guys my call.
And Brian Byers would blow mycall and he'd look at me and

(15:42):
say, The reed's too long. Slapmy forehead. Two years ago, I
finally figured it out. At thispoint. I've How many years
messed with it for fifteen yearsand I just kept making goose
calls because they drove mecrazy.
Two years ago, I finally figuredthis duck call tone board stuff
out and I'm really happy. It'skind of fun. But I also make cow

(16:03):
elk calls. I dabble sense withthe Colorado background. Yeah.
And I dabbled a little recentlymaking some morning dove calls,
which was fun. And but the theelk calls and the goose calls
are would be would be my breadand butter, just, you know,
hobby stuff. And

Yeah. So I'm guessing so at what point did
you so okay. Well, let's go backbecause I Yeah. I wanna get into
that more. But so you mentioneda little bit about so after,
like, learning to hunt inColorado and all that, and then
you mentioned a little bit aboutbanning ducks.
So where did you go career wise,like, from there? Like, is that

(16:39):
I

feel like we

just skipped over a lot of important stuff.

Career wise, I had a degree of wildlife biology.
Okay.

From where did Colorado you go to

State University. Okay. And it was fun. Worked for
Game and Fish banning ducks. Ikinda- So

where did you ban ducks? Were you banning ducks up

in Colorado? In In San Luis Valley in North Park.
Okay. So I'd spend five days inSan Luis Valley and down there
we would ban cinnamon teal and alot of redheaded ducks. And then
up in North Park, Colorado, wewe'd band a lot of mallards, lot
of pintails.
And but I saw an incredible theducks were great on these

(17:20):
properties. There were a lot ofprivate duck 1976. Okay. Yeah.
One interesting thing is an oldgame warden came out and they
told us we had to band handmallards.
Yeah. And it was during the moltand they weren't flying. Right.
And he says, I'll show you howto catch hand mallards. And we
use a salt plains duck trap,which is an L shaped box.

(17:42):
You set it in about six, eightinches of water. And I'll show
you. We went out and we put itright along the edge of a whole
bunch of cattails. Then he tooka bucket of corn and he went
down the side of the cattailsfor 50 yards with the corn and
let them It's like leading themback to the trap.

Candy trail.

We came out the next morning and there were 40
hand mallards in that trap. AndI'm like, you're kidding me. You
know? So you learn a lot andit's always neat to hear from
the old guys how to do stuff.Yeah.
Yeah. You just left a

candy trail.

So I I had done taxidermy as a hobby. I became a
professional taxidermist. I

So when did you do that? So what I Why did you
transfer over from or what wasthe yeah. What was your so you
were hobbying taxidermy.Correct? So how did you pick up
that?

One of my duck hunting buddies, dad, did
taxidermy for a hobby, so hetook us under his wing and
showed

us how he doing. A very naturally curious person,
I'm guessing.

Yeah. My mom was real artistic too. I was always
raised doing arts and crafts andstuff. I just liked doing
things. And so taxidermy wise,got out of college.
Game and fish, I didn't wannawork for them anymore because
they laid me off because ofaffirmative action. I didn't
like that. So I thought maybeI'll give taxidermy a try. I

(19:02):
went to American Institute ofTaxidermy, Janesville,
Wisconsin, learned how, andopened up a taxidermy business.
I got into it.
I was founding president of theColorado Taxiderm Association.
We started it off with AnnoVanveen from Jonah's Brothers
and Barry Smith from AlpineTaxonomy. A lot of people, we
all got together and started it.It's still going. Oh yeah.

(19:25):
They're still rolling.

Oh, good.

And then I got on the board of directors, National
Tax Derm Association for acouple of years. And it's the
same as the call making, mentorsand meeting people and trading
tips and swap, you know,swapping stuff. I did that for
ten years and I burned out.

Yeah. And so you're primarily doing like private
stuff, I'm guessing, with somemuseum, like with some museum
stuff in there.

Yeah. I Yeah. It was basically for the public.
Yeah. And we did a little museumrestoration work.
We did a lot of cleaning of oldrugs, you know, stuff like that.
Little African restoration,little African, just a whole
menagerie of stuff, you know? SoI was trained in everything, but
it just got to the point whereit turned from a labor of love

(20:10):
into labor.

Yeah.

I remember skinning around 300 fish and I was like,
I'd go home, and I'm like,honey, I hate this. Hate that
one. So I left. Yeah. I juststopped and walked and gave my
notice and went and foundanother career.

What did you go do then?

Oh gosh. I sold fishing equipment for a year. I
tried selling cars. I was toohonest for that. And I had a
buddy in the grocery business.
I got into dairy manager andgrocery business My for five
family had always been in theoffice supply business since
1936 in Colorado and got a callfrom my brother to go back out
into the family business. I didon one condition. I had to start

(20:48):
at the bottom and work my way upand learn everything.

Oh, wow.

And I was there

You're not this is it's really interesting.

Yeah.

You're not afraid to just change. No. That's so
interesting. Yeah. It Mostpeople aren't willing to do
something like that.
They're too scared to just kinda

Well, we were in Northern Colorado or, I mean,
Northern Wisconsin, and my Ilooked at my wife and says, you
wanna move to Colorado? And shesays, hell yeah. Let's go.

Yeah. That's amazing.

I love

this. Yeah. Yeah. Because, I mean, most people are
too afraid of the unknown tokinda, like, just shake up their
life that way, and you've doneit you've done it so many times.
It's like is it just not a bityou don't think about it?
You just

No.

It's I I guess You just trust that it it will work
out?

I've been a risk taker.

Yeah.

You don't get ahead if you don't try.

Yeah. I agree.

I heard something that made a impact on me that
is, you know, you hear peoplethat, oh, I tried this, but I
was no good at it.

Yeah.

And the thing is, it's not that you're no good at
it. Just trying it alone makesyou a more interesting person
and nothing to lose.

Yeah. I mean, you you've definitely proven that
with your fifteen years goingafter the duck call.

So Oh, yeah.

You can't get good at something if you don't keep
working at it.

Right. And I've spent so much time trying to
figure out wood finishes andthings like that, being a
woodworker too. I've never madean acrylic call. Yeah. I just
like wood, real wood.
No.

It makes sense.

Yeah. And

With your background too, like Yeah. Doing
it that way. Okay. So, yeah,that's just really interesting.
You just I don't you don't hearfrom many people that do that
and Right.
Just are okay with that.

Yeah.

Wow. So okay. So what point so in all of your
during all this, when do youstart? Like so you said you were
woodworking first. So have youbeen woodworking throughout this
whole time?

Well, you know, being a taxidermist is kind of a
jack of

all trades. Yeah. I'm guessing you're kind of
doing a little bit ofeverything.

You do everything there. It's just a combination
of all the different arts. And Iintroduced my wife to
woodworking and it justgradually grew into a hobby for
both of us. She did my kitchencabinets. Okay.
And here I'm making goose calls,and she's building furniture.
Okay. So we just gradually

So what did you start with before calls? What
were you doing woodworking wise?Were you doing more furniture or
what were you driving?

No, started doing a little remodeling of the house,
tying a groove cedar walls andstuff like that, and then making
a little of this. Then I got alathe.

Okay.

Got her a lathe, and she's making bowls. And I
gradually ended up taking overher lathe. Yeah. Those things.
I'm in Dutch for that.
But know, lathes are really fun.Yeah. Just turning wood is
really fun. And then I saw thebook on making goose duck calls,
I'm like, I can do that. Yeah.

And you're already hunting and stuff, so.

Yeah. Yeah. It kinda came naturally. It's a
labor of love. It's for fun.
Yeah. I don't wanna do it for abusiness. No. I don't wanna do
custom orders because I don'tlike the pressure. Yeah.
I build stuff I like. If theywant it, great. You know? We
wanna trade for something,great. You know?

But I get that. I mean, I do. I get that a lot.
Like, I went to school, whichpeople listening have heard this
probably a million times, butlike, I went to school for art
and I I quickly realized thatwasn't not that I wasn't good at
it, but, like, that I mean,there I wasn't as good as some
of those people. Like, I waslike, oh, I'm not gonna but I

(24:27):
did like it being told what todo.
Uh-huh. I don't I don't likedrawing things for people. Like,
every once in while someone asksme to, like, do a pet or
something like that, I'm like,no. I just have no desire. If I
wanna do it, I'll do it, andI'll give it to you.
And if you like it, that's fine.If you don't, you don't. But I
just don't I don't do it foranyone else.

Yeah.

Yeah. I do. It's it's just I enjoy it. It's fun.

Yeah.

And I don't want it to not be fun.

Hats off to the people that will take on custom
orders and do it. Since I do itfor a hobby and for fun, I don't
need to. I have done a few. I'vehad some friends where I'll do
something for their kid for hisbirthday or something, but I

(25:17):
basically build a couple and letthem pick their choice. Right.
Right.

It's a

little easier. Now the laminated stuff's a whole
different ballgame.

Yeah. And we'll get into that. Yeah. Alright. Well,
let's, let's take a quick breakand then we'll get into the
nitty gritty of all the callbanking part of it.

VO (25:40):
Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, sponsored by
Purina Pro Plan and Bird DogWhiskey after these messages.

Alright. Welcome back. I am here with Doug Nelson
and we're gonna kinda I wannatalk now more about your call
making. So you get that book andso in that book, did you like
kind of did they have goose makecall making in there or did you
just think that's what I wannado, so I wanna take this and
then adapt it over to to what Iwant? Like take a regular goose

(28:01):
call.

Yeah. I think so. You know, I it helped me figure
out the duck call part, I tried,but the goose calls was easy
because I had the right toolsfor it.

Okay.

Because goose balls are basically how you
counterbore the exhaust in abarrel. You know? Okay.
Goosebumps are all about thecounter boring inside the volume
that makes the the gut pick thereed up and make the noise.

Yeah. So were you just kind of working looking at
commercial calls to start? Yeah.

Yeah. I I I examined. I had, like, a couple
different ones, and I couldn'tlook and see what they had been
doing. And it was really funfiguring out that process. Yeah.
It really was because

You're kinda de like, kind of like reverse
engineering

something. And how I kinda figured it out to get it
right is I I made a really longbarrel, you know, and I had
counterbored it inside. And I'dput it in and blow it and it
wouldn't work. And I'd cut itoff an eighth of an inch and see
if it was any better. And Ifinally learned how to get the
exact volume that works withthat set of guts.

(29:10):
And it's just everything affectseverything. Duck calls are worse
or harder, but goose calls arefairly easy once you understand
the basics of them. You know?

I'm guessing when you're starting, you're just
making a functioning goose call.Your you're Right. Your goal is
to make a good sounding goosecall for a while.

And I probably made 50 before I came up with a shape
I like. Yeah. I got a whole pileof old ones. The first ones,
they're all sitting in a big boxsomewhere, you know, and and
nobody wants them, But it wasfun learning. And learning how
to I've done O rings inside thecall then gut search.
I hooked up with Wade Carpenterfrom Web Calls, and he only

(29:52):
lived about three hours from mein Colorado. And he actually
come out goose hunt with me, andand he showed me a lot. Yeah.
And he sold the the guts and thegut search and the things I
needed, and that that made ahuge difference. At least
somebody I could talk to localthat

Yeah. So you're going through it, and you're
basically making a good soundingcall first. So at what point do
you start to make them moredecorative and or learn about
competitions and other makers?So, like Yeah. What comes first?
You trying to make them moredecorative or, like, learning
about these other things?

I think I learned and joined the CCAA, the
Callmaker Collector Association.

You where did you hear about them?

Just basically, we started getting online and
learning online. And and andthen I met people, I think 2000
Let me think about this. 2013,my wife bought a brand new
Mustang and wanted to drive it.So we did a road trip to Real

(30:53):
Foot.

Okay. Yeah. And

it was a hoot. Yeah. That's where I met a bunch
of friends here. Yeah. And thenthe next year, she didn't wanna
go, so I flew to Memphis, renteda car, did that a couple years.

Yep. Mhmm. It's not a bad drive. I did it this
morning.

And then when I retired, 2022, we were we we
decided to up and move fromColorado, and we moved just 60
miles west to Real Foot Lakewithout our dream property up
there. So now instead of a twoday drive, I have a 90 mile
drive. Yeah. That's nothing.Love it.

And it's nice. You go through all these little
country roads and stuff.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I don't miss the wind and the
snow.

My husband's from Massachusetts, and people always
ask him all the time if he wantsto go back north, and he's like,
no, I don't need to shovel snowever again. Right. I'm okay with
that.

Yeah. But it's kinda how I ended up out here.
Yeah. As for the laminatingpart, the guy that wrote one of
the coauthored the book onmaking duck calls is Ed Glenn.
Ed Glenn is known for hislaminating.
And I saw his work. And then Icontacted him to learn more. And

(32:04):
he sent me some articles thathe'd written and things like
that. I started playing with it.And he encouraged me, you know,
and I did a few trades with himand things like that.
But just having him to encourageme and then one thing that
really got me going is they usedto have a forum online called
the THO, T H O, THO Forum. And Igot a message from Charlie Hess,

(32:31):
who's like the grand master guythat invented the short read.

Okay.

And he says, I like your work. Keep going. Oh, man.
It made my heart thump. Yeah.
Cool. And so I started gluingwood together, having a little
fun. And I liked it.

How was those first ones? Were they

Awesome. Took two inches. Ed taught me the tricks
on putting the segments togetherto make designs, and I think I
took a second place in 2007 witha call at the CCAA show. That
was at Where was it? St.

(33:12):
Charles, Illinois. And the nextyear I entered a match set in
the amateurs, and I won best inclass. And I'm like, you're
kidding me. They kicked me outof amateurs forever after that.
Then I have to compete againstthe big boys.
But that called, they I learneda lot. So I started challenging
myself to see what I could do.Right here on the table, I'll

(33:35):
show you. I got a call. It'sit's 890 pieces of wood put
together.

809. Yeah. Approximately, you have to count
it again. I'll put a picture upon

Took a hundred hours. I get off of work, spend
an hour putting together a 24segment ring and drink a beer,
and I did that for like ahundred days.

Okay. So I have a question. Yeah. When you're
putting this together, right,like, so Yep. If a listener can
imagine, obviously, it's tinypieces, I'd say I mean, they're
like the size of a chicklet, butyou're having because a call is
rounded.
Right? So you're putting ittogether not as a block, but as
a you're having to put it as

a I'm building rings like a pie.

Like a ring. Yeah. You're having to do a pie.

Yeah. And these happen this one happen to be 24
segment rings, which I drew itout on graph paper, some
American Indian design, and oh,did I learn a lot. Yeah. I was
still learning, but I just tookmy time. It's not perfect.
I look at it instantly and I seethe errors in it. And since

(34:43):
then, I've corrected a lot ofthose errors and figured out how
to get around it. But, basicallyyou're building imagine you're
taking a circle, looks like apie. It could be six, eight
segments, whatever. And I drilla hole through the middle, five
eighths inch hole.
Then I make another one that'sgonna match that in the pattern,
drill a hole. Then I put glue onthem, put a metal rod through

(35:07):
them and glue them together.

Yeah. Okay.

And clamp them, keep going, do more, take a
stack of two and a stack of two,glue them together. Yeah. And
eventually, you build a blank.

Yeah.

And when

you're on gotta be in a big I'm gonna say, yeah,
it's a pie. It's a circle.

It's Yeah. It's a big circle kinda it's just

because I I mean, you've seen laminated ones where
they've built it in a in a cube.

Right.

And then, like, you get different sizes, but this is
all exactly the same.

Yeah. This is it's wild. Yeah.

That's it's so impressive. And

The designs you can come up with are up to your
imagination. The the scariestpart was after a hundred hours
putting it on the lathe andturning it round. I had on a
full face mask and body armor. Ididn't know if it was gonna blow
up on me or not. And I took mytime with that.
Yeah. You would. And it's nerveracking, but it's really cool

(35:58):
when you get done and you lookat it and go, wow.

Well, because there's this there's this
percentage of it could like, itcould be a disaster. Yeah. And
you've already put so much workinto it. Say, this debate, I was
thinking about when you weretalking about how you would,
like, have to be you you graftedout and measured everything to
put in. It was like, you know,when you're, like, woodwork and
they always tell you to measuretwice and cut once, this puts

(36:23):
that to a whole new level.
Like, it's a

I there is one error on that call and I'm not
gonna show anybody where it is.No. No. Yeah. Well, yeah,

it puts a whole new meaning to the measure measure
choice cut one. Because I betyou had to keep measuring this
over and over again.

Well, they're eight inch eight inch thick segments.
Yeah. So it

No. That's amazing. Yeah. One thing I've always
noticed is talking to a lot ofwhether they're decoy carvers or
call makers, there areinfluential people along the way
that have helped you. And youmentioned the one guy that
helped you, like, with the soundstuff early out of Colorado.
But who are these people andwhere how did you come across
them? Where did you find themalong the way?

Well, mainly through the Callmaker Collector
Association. And and the old THOforum on the web was fantastic.

Yeah. I never heard That was This is the first time

this That was was all that was available out there
in the, I guess it would beearly 2000s. And so a lot of the
older guys here, everybodyremembers that.

Yeah.

It was a great source of information. It's gone
now, but Facebook, everythingelse, you know? And Ed Glenn
helped me a bunch. Billy Hayes,old time duck call maker. Billy
took me under his wing.
Billy had all these crazy ideasabout gluing wood together. He'd
call me on the phone and juststart going. And we would we

(37:46):
would, you know, come up withdifferent ideas together. I met
him in person here at Real LakeReal Foot Lake, the only time I
ever met him. You know?
All these guys that are here,Ron Gould, Brian Byers, you
know, all there's everybody herehas contributed to something of
what I know. Yeah. And I like tohelp them too. Because I'm not
in the business. I have nosecrets.

(38:07):
Yeah. I won't teach anybodyanything because

I feel like that part of call making has gone
away. Like, you know, if youtalk about these early days,
like, particularly, like, someof the Arkansas guys, you talk
about the early days of callmaking, and it was a lot of
secrecy. For example, Mike Lewistalks about oh gosh, I just
forgot his name, that he learnedfrom, and he would have to he

(38:32):
made the rebel call. Yeah.Crazy.
I can't think of his name. Buthe would he would call him and
ask for advice and he'd be likehe would give him, like, vague
answers and he was like, well,you could come over here, but
and I won't tell you, but youcould

Now we have YouTube.

Right. And, like, so but they were kinda secretive
and I feel like, which is good.I think it shouldn't be
secretive. I think it's goodpeople are kinda more open and

Well, maybe it's because of my taxonomy
background. Yeah. You know, itnever hurts to light another
candle. Never hurts to teachsomebody something.

No. Well Doesn't hurt

me any, You know? Yeah.

Also, like, it doesn't. And if you want a
tradition to continue, you haveto teach people. You have to
encourage people.

There's a lot of old timers. We don't wanna lose
that knowledge. No. Thing I likeespecially is I'll come up with
a problem and or show somebodyhow to do it, and then somebody
comes up with a better way to doit, I get to learn that, and we
all win. Yeah.
Love it. It's like, cool. How'dyou do that?

Because everyone has their own unique way to
solve problems. So if you givethem a hint towards a solution,
then they're gonna take it andput in their own thing. It's
gonna continue

to evolve. Call making, we're we're working with
people that are innovators.Yeah. Everybody that's here
figures stuff out on their own,and there's 50 different ways to
do something. But it's reallyfun learning, how do you do
that?
You know? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting. So who else
along the way we just mentionedthat changed you that changed
the way you became calls?

Joshua Lynn came over to my shop. I had a duck
call that I made fifteen yearsearlier, and he picked it up and
he blew it. And I thought, oh,it's a piece of crap. You know?
And he says, wow.
You should've entered that atReal Foot. I'm like, you're
kidding me. And all I had to dois open up the exhaust on it a

(40:23):
little bit. When I entered itlast year and won first place
amateurs, I was like, you'rekidding me. But he spent two
hours with me and basicallyopened my eyes and solved my
problem with tone boards.
And now I'm off to the races.I'm building them, and they
actually work. And I'm I can'tlock them up anymore, which
makes me really happy.

Yeah. That's really exciting. Yeah. I do wanna do
because you talk about the soundand stuff, and and we were gonna
do it today, but our camera guyis sick, so we're not gonna do
it. But I wanna do a visualpodcast where we talk about tone
boards and the science behindall that because it's so
specific and I don't thinkpeople really understand.
I mean, they're musicalinstruments. They are. Yeah.

(41:05):
You're making a musicalinstrument.

And you're learning about which woods work good and
which ones don't. You can go outhere to the show and pick up a
dozen different duck calls, andevery tone board's different.
There's long ones. There's shortones. There's fat ones.
There's skinny ones. You know?There's but they all work or
supposed to work. Or you mightfind that your dream duck call,
you know, you might blow 30 duckcalls and finally find that one

(41:29):
that fits your style. Well, youknow, it's not a one size fits
all thing.

No. Yeah. Because everybody blows air differently,
basically. Yeah. You know?
Yeah. Like

Yeah. And then

Well, I always laugh because we were talking
about old calls earlier. My dadstill blows a d two old. That's
all he'll ever blow. He'll everblow another call. I can't blow
a d two old to save my life.
I can't I don't have the lungs

Right.

To get behind that call. Like, I can't do it. I
don't know how he does it. But,yeah, he won't we had to buy
him, like, a case of them backwhen the right when the factory
closed.

Right.

So he can't have them for the rest of his life.

And, you know, and then duck hunting. Yeah. Ducks
are every day's different. Yeah.Some days, all they wanna hear
is four or five quacks whenthey're going over the head, and
some days they don't wanna heara call at all.
And some days you scare them allaway, some days you get them all
to come, but that's why theycall hunting, I guess.

Have you been hunting since you've moved out
here a little bit? No. You havenot?

No. I've got an outfitter friend of mine that's
actually gonna take me thisyear. Good. Yeah. Over he has
5,000 acres.
They farm over by the BlackRiver.

Yeah. It's very different.

And he's he's he owns a gun store. He got to be a
good friend, and he says, comeon. I'll take you this

VO (42:40):
year. Yeah.

So I actually bought my ducks stamped this
year.

Oh, good.

And we'll go sit and yeah, I don't care if I
shoot one or not. I might evenget some bismuth shot and take
my old 20 gauge single shot Hand R out there and Honestly,
get one shot at

it doesn't even matter anymore.

I shot so many ducks. My senior high school in
'74, '73, me and two friendsshot 300 Mallards that year. We
had a ball.

Yeah, bet you too.

And we didn't pay for any leases or anything. We
just got out of school and wentand shot them,

you know?

Good old days.

Yeah. That's fun.

Yeah. So I don't care if I shoot a duck or not.
It's just sitting in the blind.I love to watch them come in,
and it's just the wholeatmosphere.

That's fun.

Yeah. It doesn't matter. And tell tall stories.

Yes. Oh, yeah. That's very true. Through your
time, honey, and all this andcall making, do you have any
stories that you'd want to shareor that I wanna hear?

I can

I know Brian mentioned one? Brian Byers
mentioned one that you shouldtell, so let's go with that one.

I can tell stories for hours.

Yeah. Let's go with the one Brian requested a story,
so let's go with that one.

This is my PETA PETA story, People for Ethical
Treatment of Animals. Yes. Soabout fifteen years ago, I was a
on the road salesman.

Okay.

I'm in Cheyenne, Wyoming. Got my shirt and tie
on, driving down the street, andI look over at Kentucky Fried
Chicken. Here's a guy in achicken suit and all these girls
protesting Kentucky FriedChicken. And I realized it was
PETA, People for EthicalTreatment Animals. Went and saw
a customer and I thought, youknow, I gotta go back and yank

(44:18):
their chain.
So I drove back there and Ipulled in at a quarter to 12
Kentucky Fried Chicken. Therewas not a single customer, and
they're all out frontprotesting. And I walked in the
door, you know, got my tie onand everything, and I looked at
the guy and says, I would like asmall box of chicken, please.
And he says, are you with them?And I said, oh, hell no.
I can't stand them. I'm gonna gomake me a picket sign and eat

(44:40):
chicken in front of them. Hesays, really? And I says, yeah.
And he says, here man on thehouse, go get him.
Hands me a box of chicken. Isays, you betcha. And walked out
to my truck, I sold officesupplies for a living.

Okay, yes. You had all

this Well, I had a big old box in here and a big
giant jumbo marker. So I made mea sign and it kind of looked
like a Chick fil A sign, butthis is before Chick fil A, and
it said, ignore pita. Eatchicken. Grabbed me a drumstick,
walked out on the sidewalk rightnext to them. Now you gotta
remember, this is Cheyenne,Wyoming.
Yeah. They're not exactlypopular people in Cheyenne,

(45:15):
Wyoming.

No. I would say they're and it's it's surprising
that they're in Cheyenne,Wyoming.

I had so much fun. You know, he'd come over, try to
talk to the system. Would getaway from me. I'd say, get away
from me, you know? But I filledthat restaurant full of ranchers
in twenty minutes.
At least 50 trucks pulled in,they mauled the place. Yeah. And
it was so much fun. I remember Iwas looking over at the front
door and here's this 90 year oldrancher with a cane to stand

(45:41):
there with a piece of chicken. Icould hear him and he's yelling,
what the hell's wrong with you?
Yelling at him, you know? And Ilooked up and here came the
newspaper reporters running downthe street, who are you? What
you doing? I'm Doug Nelson. Iwas just driving by, figured it
was a good day for a piece ofchicken, and I made the front
pages of Cheyenne paper fullcolor the next morning eating

(46:02):
chicken and with this steamingmad pita guy behind me.

Did you keep it? The pita did you keep the paper?

Yeah. I got it. It is so much fun. Yeah. You know?
But that's one of the funnierthings I've done. I do that
again in a heartbeat too.

So when they come when people come to the museum
because we're in the Pyramids,so, like, you get a a big like,
in the wintertime, I'd say wehave mostly hunters, but in the
summer, you get tourists fromall over the place.

Right.

One of the biggest questions we always get from
people, and I always find it sofunny because they're always
like it makes sense once they,like, hear the answer, but
they're always like, well, Idon't get it. You save ducks,
but you kill ducks. I'm like,that's not and like I go,
honestly, though, it's like, wewere started by hunters and
hunters are what give the I hateto tell you, but hunters give

(46:49):
the most money to conservationthan any other group, like, when
I tell them that. I'm like like,because they want the resource
around more than anybody. Like,if there's no ducks, they can't
hunt.
So and they're always, like,surprised, but, like, for the
most part, it's a nice reaction,but it's like, oh, that makes
perfect sense. But no oneexpects that to be my answer.

Nobody pays more for conservation than the
hunters. They fund the game andfish departments, you know,
hunting and fishing licensesales, everything. It's all
interconnected. And DucksUnlimited, that or private You
don't have to a duck hunter. Anyprivate citizen can give money
to Ducks Unlimited or corporate.
Yeah.

And wetlands.

Their money goes straight into building habitat.
And if you don't have habitat,you don't have and it's not just
ducks. You don't have any of thewildlife

Wildlife that live and all water birds.

Yeah.

Yeah. It it is surprising to how many people I
guess when you grow up in it,don't even think about it, but
how many people don't even thinkabout that?

With my degree in wildlife biology, I understand
it completely. Yeah. I'm I'mreally attuned to what's going
on in Africa right now becauseover there, the professional
hunters, there's two choices.You can either have hunting
sustained harvest within thecarrying capacity or you can
lose it all. You can't protectthem and do it.

(48:07):
I can discuss this for hours.Maybe we'll do it another time.
Yeah.

No. It's very interesting. And so I wanted so
how long were you in the Fishand Wildlife Service?

What? Working with them? Yeah. Only a couple of
summer, basically.

Alright. So Did when you lived in Wisconsin, did
you hunt hunt there too?

Oh, yeah. Mostly white tails and ruffed grouse.
Yeah. Did a lot of muskyfishing.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know?

That's so fun. Yeah. Alright. You got any good
hunting stories? Oh.
Hunting stories are

always Probably. You'd have to think about it.
You know? I had a buddy shot agoose that went through a lady's
bedroom window at the countryclub Really? At 08:00 on Sunday
morning, and we could hear herscreaming.
And I looked at him and says,I'm not going over there. You
shot it. So he ended up payingfor the cleaning of the place
and the new window, and thesheriff came out. It was quite a

(48:55):
fun, exciting time. Lady woke upwith a goose running in her
bedroom.

Yeah. That's crazy.

Uh-huh.

I've never heard of a goose going through somebody's
bedroom window. Like, well,like, that you had killed. You
know, like

It was bloody life.

Yeah. Oh my god. And they're not nice either. No.
No.
Geese are notoriously that's whypeople don't like them. Yeah.
It's kinda me. Alright. Is thereanything that we haven't
mentioned that you wanna talkabout, like call making wise or
anything of that?
Like, I I

would encourage if if anybody's ever near Real Foot
during this show to stop in, andespecially we don't see that
many locals. We don't see theguiding outfitters around here.
You'd think they'd all stop inand see us. But surprisingly,
they don't even know about it.You know?

Oh, they're right here. Yeah. Alright. So let's so
I have a question. So this isthe October?

Yeah.

Is it always then?

Yeah. It's usually around the October usually.
Okay. October, right in thatarea. Okay.
Every year.

And it's like Friday, Saturday, Sunday?

It's Friday and Saturday.

Friday and Saturday.

A lot of us get here on Thursday just

You call makers to You always show up know? Y'all
always show up early and y'allstay in one place.

And you know what? We had people drive from
Minnesota yesterday. I got afriend coming in from Colorado
today and a lot of people fromFlorida. Everybody was dragging
last night because a lot of themdrove thirteen, fourteen hours
to get here.

Yeah. So I have a question about that because,
like, when I think well, onething I think about, I I love
that y'all still come to RealFoot because the history here in
call making, I mean, it's veryHuge. It's huge. It's very
specific to this area. Mhmm.
That could be a whole episode onitself about the history of
RealFoot and call making, butit's steeped in tradition. As

(50:43):
someone who studies the historyof calls and call making and
waterfowling, like, it's veryinsular to certain areas. Right?
Like, have the Real Foot area,you have Arkansas, like, then
you have, like, Louisiana hasits own thing, Minnesota.

Mississippi River in Illinois.

Illinois. Yeah. So but modern call making has
really expanded.

Yeah.

Do you have do you have anything to contribute that
to? Is that just the blowup ofthe Internet? Like, have people
just migrated?

I think the Internet's been wonderful for
it.

Yeah. Because it's different for call making. Like,
decoy carving has not done thatin the same way, but call making
has.

There's a whole pile of YouTube videos. What do
you wanna learn? Yeah. You know?And then you you take it as it
is.
It's just it's interesting tosee it.

Do you just think it's because it's more
accessible call making in Peoplea

are more willing to share.

And y'all do like I mean, how many of the y'all do
at least four? Is it fourcompetitions a year or more?

Well, the CCAA does the show in Lambert, Illinois.
Yep. And that's a fancy callcontest. Yep. And that's based
on what they look like.
Yep. And then we have a workingcall contest here at Real Foot
based on what they sound like.And that's that's duck calls.
Okay. Amateur division,professional division.
If you don't play, you can'twin.

That's right.

So build your call and iterate. You know? Yeah. I
was up until this last year, thebest I'd ever done was eighth
place in the amateurs. Yeah.
Frustrated, but I kept plugging

away. Have a history of plugging away at
things. It's fun. Yeah. Yeah.

You gotta have fun with your hobbies.

Yeah. That's very true. So are you gonna make more
duck calls now that you think

you're make? Brought 18 to the show. Well,
see, I'm gonna do some trading.I I already got Brian Byers
already traded me out of a nicecall already.

So how many calls do you make a year?

Not a lot. Not a lot because concentrating on
these laminated calls. This onecall right here took me two
months to build.

Okay.

Because I'm experimenting, I'm learning
more. So I might build a call,but you won't see the big bucket
or leftover oops pieces that Ithrew away. And I I burned some
beautiful firewood.

Oh, it's heavy.

Yeah. That's desert ironwood. No. That's that's
bloodwood, that call. But, yeah,very heavy.

So yeah. So you're saying like so that's not many.
I mean, if you're doing twomonths a year, that's like

No. I usually build a bunch of calls to bring to
Real Foot to do some trading.And then this summer was so hot.
I just lived out in the aircondition shop and enjoyed it.
It was fun.
Yeah. You know? But I usuallyspend October, November,
December, January trying tobuild some calls for the Lambert
show. And I got some wild ideasagain for next year.

Do you put anything in at Wild Turkey in Nashville?

No. Never been to that. Yeah. And I can't afford
to go to that, but it's okay.

That's okay. And you know what I wonder? And I
always wonder why, and I don'tknow if you have answered for
this, but there's the callcomthe call calling competition
that's in Easton. Why don't wedo more of a call maker stuff in
Easton? I don't know.
Because goose wise, it's it'smuch more heavy

Yeah. I goose don't know I never I don't know much
about that.

I have to ask Brian that because I was thinking
about that on the way herebecause when because I knew you
were I knew you would have goosecalls.

Yeah.

And, Yeah. I was thinking about on the way here
is where that's so much moreprevalent because that's where
the goose calling competitionis.

Am not a great goose caller.

Well, you can

I'm a good goose hunter because I know how to
hunt geese. And that doesn'tinclude calling them the best
season I ever had. I left mycall in a truck.

But I'm not a good duck caller either. And I never
had

Nothing makes me happier than handing one of my
goose calls to a guy that knowshow to run it and make that
sweet music just brings a bigold smile to my face. We're
gonna do that in a couple hourshere.

Yeah. That'll be fun. Yeah. We can't wait to see
it.

Yeah.

All right. Well, Doug, thank you for doing this.

Thanks for having me.

This really fun. Yeah. And I'm glad I got to come
down today.

Good.

It's much better than sitting in my office.

Absolutely.

Alright. Well Cool. Thank, thank you for coming on
the show.

Thank you.

Enjoy the show here and

Oh, yeah.

Real Foot. Alright. Thanks, Doug for coming on the
show. Thanks to our producer,Chris Isaac, and thanks to you,
our listener, for spawningwetlands and waterfowl
conservation.

VO (54:51):
Thank you for listening to the DU podcast, sponsored by
Purina Pro Plan, the officialperformance dog food of Ducks
Unlimited. Purina Pro Plan,always advancing. Also proudly
sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskeyand Cocktails. Whether you're
winding down with your bestfriend or celebrating with your
favorite crew, Bird Dog bringsaward winning flavor to every
moment. Enjoy responsibly.

(55:13):
Be sure to rate, review, andsubscribe to the show and visit
ducks.org/dupodcast. Opinionsexpressed by guests do not
necessarily reflect those ofDucks Unlimited. Until next
time, stay tuned to the Ducks.

All Episodes

Ep. 725 - Craft, Community, and Calls: Doug Nelson at Reelfoot Lake

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Dateline NBC

Are You A Charlotte?

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ep. 725 - Craft, Community, and Calls: Doug Nelson at Reelfoot Lake