November 8, 2025 • 48 mins
Host Chris Jennings is joined by Daniel and Neill Haas from Mossy Oak. The two share the story of Mossy Oak, from the early days when their grandmother sewed garments in the attic to today’s global distribution. The conversation turns to duck hunting and conservation, and both share the reason behind the company’s passion for waterfowl and habitat conservation.
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VO (01:44):
Welcome to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, Reloaded. We
bring you the best of our pastepisodes. Whether you're a
seasoned waterfowler or curiousabout conservation, this series
is for you. Over the years,we've had incredible guests and
discussions about everythingfrom wetland conservation to the
latest waterfowl research andhunting strategies. In Reloaded,
(02:04):
we're revisiting thoseconversations to keep the
passion alive and the missionstrong.
So sit back, relax, and enjoythis reload.
Chris Jennings (02:16):
Joining us today is a great partner of Ducks
Unlimited. We have Daniel Hayesand Neil Hayes from Mossy Oak.
Hey, guys. Welcome to the DucksUnlimited podcast.
Daniel Hayes (02:25):
Thank you for having for having us.
Chris Jennings (02:27):
We'll get this thing kicked off, and we'll do
this the same way that we do alot of shows. I want you guys to
kind of tell us a little bitabout yourself before we get
into Mossy Oak, you know, whatyou guys do at Mossy Oak, where
is Mossy Oak located, You know,where you guys live, where you
guys hunt, everything like that.So, Daniel, can you go ahead and
start us with that?
Neil Hayes (02:44):
Yeah. And Neil and I are twins. And since we have
such a a strong history betweenMossy Oak and dad and our
granddad and outdoors ingeneral. Pretty much our entire
lives are kinda chartedalongside each other with all of
our memories hunting and growingup and, you know, where family's
really important to us. So allof our memories, me and Neil,
(03:05):
are inseparable for most of ourlives even now, especially duck
hunting, sharing a blind witheach other, shooting in the
woods.
So but, yeah, you know, we bothgrown up in West Point, went to
Mississippi State fifteenminutes from from West Point.
Campus is is close by theoffice. Our parents,
grandparents, everybody wentthere, and then we're, you know,
(03:26):
right after that back at atMalsy Oak. And and ever since
then, we've just been workingfor Malsy and taking on all
sorts of different projects thatfall under the brand.
Chris Jennings (03:38):
No. That's awesome. And, Neil, how about
you?
Daniel Hayes (03:41):
Yeah. Kind of echoing what Daniel said. You
know, we've we've grown up. Youknow, we had great influences
growing up with our granddad andour dad really teaching us a lot
about not only hunting, butconservation and woodsmanship
and taking care of the resourceand all that kind of stuff. And
so it gives us good appreciationfrom a young age, and, you know,
hopefully, you know, we'll teachour kids the same, and, that's
(04:01):
kinda what keeps all this aroundfor everyone, and you guys know
that better than anyone.
But yeah, we're just we're bigon conservation and anything we
can do to help the resource. Andso we do a ton of work, and
that's why I think Mossy Oak andDucks Unlimited are such great
partners, just because theybelieve in a lot of the same
(04:22):
things.
Chris Jennings (04:22):
Absolutely. Let's kinda discuss before we
started the show, we had a briefconversation to really get into
the story of Mossy Oak. Youknow, it's such a big brand, but
but I don't know which one ofyou wants to take this on, but,
you know, how did how did thisstart? How did the entire brand
start?
Daniel Hayes (04:41):
I'll let Daniel kick us off with this one. He's
a pretty good storyteller.
Chris Jennings (04:44):
There you go.
Neil Hayes (04:45):
Yeah. Neil and I could both take this one. It's
enjoyable to to tell and tothink about even though we
weren't around for the earlydays. Our granddad, Pawpaw, as
everybody else knows him as asmister Fox, but he is from
Mobile, Alabama. And so he grewup down there.
And a lot of our family on hisside of the family is from South
Alabama. And so some of our oldfamily friends had a an old
(05:06):
hunting club called ChoctawBluff that Neil could give into
the history a lot more there ofChoctaw Bluff. But because of of
papa hunting there when dad wasold enough to hunt, he spent a
lot of his life. My granddadended up coming State and
building a life in West Pointwith my grandmother, and so
that's how Boss Oak ended upbeing tied to this area, but he
never left his roots to ChoctawBluff and hunting with his
(05:28):
original hunting buddies. Whatpapa cared more about than
anything back then was turkeyhunting.
And so he would take my dadturkey hunting down there and
they had the hunting club brokeninto a lot of different
territories and there was anarea that had a tree on it that
was kind of a a meeting pointbecause it was an oak mix in the
middle of a bunch of ponds, soit was an easy identification.
(05:48):
So, you know, made it to mossyoke tree. So if you're hunting
in the area where the moss yokewas, it was a common commonly
known tree that you could use asa as a meet up point. So when
dad was, you know, he washunting with with top ball
turkey hunting every spring andgetting frustrated at the the
lack of mobility that hiscamouflage offered him because
back then, you know, it had beensome kinda grimy looking
(06:10):
military camo that really stuckout like a sore thumb in in
South Alabama and build theseintricate blinds to try to you
know, you pretty much have to beconfined to one tree and that
doesn't really work out too wellif you're turkey hunting as as
anybody who turkey huntingknows. So dad was so frustrated
that there wasn't a simplesolution because he just knew
that if you had clothes on yourback that resembled the area
(06:32):
that you're hunting or lookedlike the tree that you were
trying to sit up against, thatyou could you wouldn't make a
find on one tree.
You could, you know, chaseturkey turkey around the woods
and and become invisible nomatter where you were. So that
kinda was the initial idea forfor Maltese Oak and Bottomland
as everybody knows the originalpattern. The inspiration for it
wasn't, you know, all sorts ofcompanies pop up left and right
(06:53):
and, you know, somebody mightjust think they see an
opportunity to sell acamouflaged t shirt or a shirt
or jacket or whatever it is forprofit and turn it into a
business and and make a living.But dad's, genuinely, he was
just trying to figure out a away to better hide from turkeys.
Chris Jennings (07:08):
Yeah. Just kind of like innovation due to
necessity right there. You know,he was just trying to kill a
turkey, and that's awesome.
Neil Hayes (07:15):
That is exactly right. So, yeah, so anyway, he
he literally got a handful ofdirt, sticks, and leaves in a
ziplock bag and went to workwith a designer and a and a
textile mill to try to figureout how to match up the and we
have the if next time y'all arein West Point, you can come see
it. But we've got, you know,some of the original garments
and the original cotton and theeven the Pantone colors and the
(07:37):
original sketches of ofBottomland with dad trying to
figure out, you know, how to howto get the colors matched up
perfectly with what heenvisioned in his head. And when
they kicked around names for thecompany trying to figure out
what they were gonna call it,they they probably some some
ones that wouldn't have agedquite as well trying to figure
out what to call it and and theyeventually between dad and papa,
(07:59):
riding the dirt roads downthere, the name Moss Yoke just
kinda popped in their heads and,you know, it was a perfect name.
So it stuck and everybody lovedit and and luckily, we I don't
know that this name was actuallykicked around, but everybody
jokes that they were telling himto call it Invisiflodge or some
other goofy name like that.
And thankfully for for everyoneinvolved.
Daniel Hayes (08:18):
Thank thank thank goodness that never happened.
Neil Hayes (08:20):
Yeah. That didn't happen, and and Mossy Oak, it,
you know, it it was an instantclassic, and and we think it's a
great name still to this day.
Daniel Hayes (08:28):
You know, when dad was able to get that first roll
of fabric printed andeverything, my grandmother, our
grandmother is a very, very goodexpert sewer, and so she sewed
all the clothes together in thefirst early days. She sewed
everything in her attic, and I'msorry, have my duck hunting dog
in the room with me.
Chris Jennings (08:46):
No, it's perfect.
Daniel Hayes (08:47):
Yeah. I figured I would add add a little bit of a
know, to the Ducks Unlimitedpodcast, have a duck dog, but
but, yeah, that that's part ofthe, you know, cool story is,
you know, for the first coupleyears, you know, they're, you
know, taking phone calls fromthe house line and selling the
clothes in the attic and don'teven have enough money saved up
yet to buy an office space oranything like that. It really
was a built from the ground uptype company out of nowhere, so
(09:10):
it's a pretty cool success storyfrom doing something that
everyone told you that was kindastupid and wouldn't work, and it
was kinda you know, just a sillyidea kinda thing.
Chris Jennings (09:19):
No. That's great, and it's a cool story,
and I and I and I've I've heardsome of that or or or read most
of it, but I'm sure that ouraudience did not know. But it
it's also cool when you sitthere and you look at the logo.
You know, the company logo trulyis like, you know, that mossy
oak. And and my only questionthere, is that tree still
standing?
Do you guys, like, own thatproperty now or that that one
(09:41):
mossy oak?
Daniel Hayes (09:41):
No. It's so the hunting club is is owned by
kinda one family, and a lot ofit's leased ground and stuff
like that. But it's a really Imean, the hunting club was
started in the nineteentwenties. It's one of the oldest
turkey hunting clubs in NorthAmerica. Maybe the oldest, I'm
not sure.
But tree actually got struck bylightning probably fifteen years
(10:03):
ago, something like, maybelonger. But the family that owns
the property was able to salvagea bunch of the wood and get it
cut into a bunch of boards. Andthe last 15 or so, we've been
able to make some pretty cool,making duck calls and turkey
calls and things of that natureout of the wood. So we've been
able to use the wood from thetree in some pretty cool
(10:23):
projects.
Chris Jennings (10:23):
Man, that's cool. That's kinda like the
natural story. You can make abaseball bat out of it or
something.
Neil Hayes (10:28):
Yeah. No. Our our if we had more of the wood, we
would have had everything underthe sun made from it, and a
baseball bat would have been oneof those things. But, you know,
luckily, we've been able to makesome you know, we've had turkey
calls, crow calls, knifehandles, duck calls, a bunch of
really really cool things made.Obviously, not for sale.
Yeah. Short of a few, you know,auctions that we've used. You
(10:51):
know, we've got our localauction that raises money for
Saint Jude and Catch a Dream,and then we've done some stuff
with the NWTF. It would probablyhave something that would make
sense for a waterfowl project inthe future. But, yeah, those are
those are made for family,friends, and people in our
immediate family and that havebeen around Moss Yoke forever
and and whatnot, but there havebeen some some really cool
things.
(11:11):
And I'll I'll give the shortversion of of this story, but we
actually the most obscure partof that, you know, what we've
made with the Mossy Oak wood,but that is also one of the
coolest because it's the onlyone that you're able to share
with somebody is we made abarrel of whiskey with Jefferson
Reserve in Trey Zeller up therein Kentucky. Mhmm. And, you
(11:31):
know, we we don't we wouldn'thave I always assumed, like,
Woodford has a double oakedwhiskey, and I never I was
didn't know anything about thatprocess, and I assumed it had
something to do with the barrel,and, know, we don't have enough
wood left now to even make astave, let alone a whole barrel.
But we ended up talking to themand they have just kinda like a
finishing process where they canchar little pieces of oak and
they can take an already, youknow, eight or ten year old
(11:53):
barrel of bourbon and steep somewood in there that's you know,
they know the temperature andthe the surface area and the
type of wood to bring outcertain flavors and all that
kind of stuff.
So they charred some of the mosswood, took a barrel of
Jefferson's that had alreadybeen aching nine or ten years,
and then finished it with themossier wood in there for
another about a year and a half.And then a few Christmases back,
(12:15):
we had that barrel bottled forsome family friends and
Daniel Hayes (12:18):
some people
Neil Hayes (12:18):
close to us. And, you know, all the other things
that we've made with the woodare really cool, but they're,
you know, it's just one verytangible, you know, call or
whatever it is that that youown. But the the bourbon is
extremely cool because ifsomebody's in camp with us, you
know, we can share glass andyou're literally drinking a
small piece of history Yeah.With the mossier wood there. So
that is is one of the coolestthings that we've done with it.
Chris Jennings (12:41):
Yeah. That is really cool. Now I know that you
guys are both diehard duckhunters. Do either one of you
have a call from the wood?
Daniel Hayes (12:49):
We do, yes. We both yeah, and some people in
the family decided to put theirsup on a shelf, but I put mine, I
don't really blow it much, but Iput it on my lanyard, it goes
with me everywhere I go. So it'sa little beat up from some of
the rough you know, I've beenknown to go the extra mile and
go through briar patches and andbug brush and whatever I have to
(13:11):
go through to get to where Ineed to duck hunt. So I beat my
gear up pretty good, and so mycall is probably not as in good
shape as most people does, butyeah, I take mine everywhere I
go.
Neil Hayes (13:22):
Luckily, the you know, we we had a pretty we were
able to salvage a decent amountof wood at first, so we were
able to we didn't have to bestingy with, you know, everyone
in the family got a duck call,everyone in the family got a a
turkey call and and whatnot.We're not making any more of
that wood. It's gotta gotta stayaround forever, so the last
little bit we've got left, we'revery, very protective of.
Chris Jennings (13:39):
I'll bet. That's pretty cool. And that's I mean,
that just brings that that storykinda full circle where you have
something in your hand from thattree, and and that that's just
cool. You know, so the entirecompany was kinda based from a
turkey hunting perspective, butdo you guys consider yourselves
maybe more duck hunters orturkey hunters?
Daniel Hayes (14:00):
I would say both. You know, Daniel is probably the
same way, and our dad's the sameway, and we we all love to deer
hunt, but duck hunting andturkey hunting are definitely
our biggest passions. And, youknow, dad grew up you know, we
always say, you know, he grew upand designed the camo to hide
some turkeys and all that, buthe grew up duck hunting on those
same river bottoms that he wasshooting turkeys in and, you
know, mostly shooting woodducks. But, you know, he grew up
(14:21):
duck duck hunting a lot and wasa very avid duck hunter from an
early age, and as as was ourgrandfather. So, yeah, they they
definitely know, he's been bothof them have been duck hunting
their entire lives.
But the the hiding from turkeysis kinda what sparked the idea,
but then it grew into,obviously, hiding from all all
animals and nature.
Neil Hayes (14:37):
And like Neil said, yeah, turkey and turkey and
ducks kinda always are our twofavorite things to hunt. And as
anyone knows, it's warmbottomland and and flooded
timber. The the necessity ofdeveloping that camouflage
pattern originated with turkeys,but because of the area that he
was hunting in, the habitat thathe was hunting in, it's stood
the test of time. It's probablythe most versatile camouflage
pattern for hunting that's everbeen created because it does
(14:59):
work so well whether you're duckhunting or turkey hunting and
and and a lot of areas deerhunting too. It's just such a
good pattern and and especiallynowadays, it's become timeless
because you got a wholedifferent new generation that
didn't grow up with it, but thathas been introduced to it now.
And, you know, you it might havebeen developed in 1986, but now
you can find anybody from a ateenager to someone who's been
(15:21):
hunting their their whole lifeand as an old man wearing it. So
I think it's it's it's prettycool to see the kinda like
generational span of of peoplethat love to wear bottomland,
whether they're duck hunting orturkey hunting or deer or
anything.
Chris Jennings (15:32):
Yeah. No. I mean, bottomland's so popular,
and and that that kinda leads meto my next question, and and and
I don't know if you guys have agood I'm sure you guys have
talked about this, but kind ofthe original bottomland kinda
had a resurgence, you know,recently in well, not too
recently, but, you know, how didyou guys see that or or or even
your dad? It's like, you know,was that just like more
(15:53):
vindication for that patternwhen this kind of resurgence of
the original bottom line?
Daniel Hayes (15:57):
It it started really at Daniel and myself and,
a small group of friends, andreally buying stuff, people
would start selling stuff oneBay, and a small group of
people just would really loveBottom Lane. You couldn't buy it
anywhere. It have kind of beendiscontinued, and and people
were starting to pay, you know,crazy amounts for certain
products in Bottomland, oldvintage clothes and stuff like
(16:19):
hats or whatever. And, you know,we started seeing people paying,
you know, five, six, seven timeswhat what it was originally
purchased for on eBay, and we'relike, well, you know, all this
attention, all these peoplepaying, you know, all this money
for bottom line, we shouldprobably consider bringing it
back. And so that's kinda wherebringing it back started was
just all the attention it wasgetting on, you know, eBay and
stuff like that.
Chris Jennings (16:37):
Yeah. So and I'm just gonna assume that you guys
probably just answered thisquestion, but but what is each
of you, do you guys have, like,a a specific pattern that you
prefer over any other of allMossy Oak patterns?
Daniel Hayes (16:51):
Yeah. Probably bottomland. I mean, you're
you're rarely gonna I mean, wewe love all the patterns, you
know, like, especially, youknow, turkey hunting, you know,
definitely love obsession andgreen leaf and some of those
patterns, and duck hunting love,you know, the shadow grass
patterns and all that. But, youknow, most nine times out of 10,
if we're hunting somewhere,we're standing next to a tree,
(17:13):
so we usually have bottom landon.
Neil Hayes (17:15):
Yeah. And, you know, we've we've got a lot of of
different patterns that havestood the test of time, and
shatter grass is obviously a aphenomenal pattern that was
introduced in the nineties. Andthe newer iterations of that
with Shattergrass blades andShattergrass habitat, you know,
those are those are awesomepatterns. But the connection to
the family and the history ofMolson Oak and the places that
we hunt and all the the, youknow, old jackets we've stolen
(17:38):
from papa and dad out of theirclosets and and all the good
stuff like that. But putting onbottom line and and going to do
whatever kinda hunting you'rehitting the woods for is it just
you know, we've got a lot of oldgarments and and stuff that just
feels like an old friend andespecially the stuff that was
passed down that we stole frompapa or dad and a lot of that
old history is just, like,embodied in bottomland.
(18:00):
And some of the other originalpatterns, you know, bottomland's
like the greatest hit, but and alot of people love green leaf in
early season deer hunting andespecially turkey hunting. But
they it kind of, you know,bottomland is always there. It's
an absolute classic and it'stimeless, but there's a lot of
those vintage patterns thatmaybe you're more obscure. And,
you know, most people are awareof green leaf and tree stand and
(18:21):
the original shadow grasspattern, but then you've got
some of the, you know, fullfoliage and fall foliage that
were part of that first four,five, six years of of camouflage
that not as many people knowabout that if you have an old
jacket or a shirt or orwhatever, they're pretty cool
patterns, and there's not asmuch clothing to go around with
those on them because theyhaven't been reintroduced from
(18:42):
the archives. But, yeah, we'vegot a lot of obscure patterns to
choose from in the archives too.
Chris Jennings (18:47):
No. That's cool, and I know I was pretty excited
to see, you know, the originalshadow grass kind of made an
that's what I, you know, startedhunting in the nineties, early
to mid nineties when I startedduck hunting, and that in in
growing up in Indiana, I I feltlike shadow grass had a had a
really strong foothold thererather than bottom ones because
(19:07):
we're not we don't hunt likeflooded timber, you know, like
duck hunting. We're more it's amuch more variable habitat. So,
you know, I was a big guy, youknow, big fan of Shadow Grass,
the original, and then you guysbrought that back out with
Filson a couple years ago, andthat was that was just so cool.
I mean, I was even gettingemails because I think we ran a
couple of the products in themagazine, and I got a bunch of
(19:28):
emails from people like, hey,man.
When's that gonna be available?You know? Even some buddies that
I grew up hunting with becausewe thought shadow grass was just
like the most awesome thingever, and some guys I grew up
hunting with were like, oh, doyou have one of those?
Neil Hayes (19:39):
Like, that
Chris Jennings (19:39):
is so cool. So that that's that's all kind of a
an interesting aspect to theMossy Oak story is how, you
know, these patterns have stoodthe test of time and and
continue to be brought back tothe forefront and by by fans. I
mean, I guess I guess that's away to to describe, you know,
fans of the pattern. Know, Youwe can probably get into all the
different patterns and and talklike that forever, but, you
(20:01):
know, one thing I wanted to askyou guys is Mossy Oak, you know,
you described the history ofthe, you know, of the company,
of the brand, even the garments,but, you know, you guys have
grown from just, you know, whatyou're describing, you know,
sewing your grandmother sewingin the attic to, you know,
almost like a a massive mediacompany. How has that
(20:24):
transitioned within the company?
You know, you know, you're acamouflage company, but, you
know, that that now that youguys have Mossy Oak Go, you
have, you know, multiplecompanies underneath Mossy Oak,
how has that transition been,and how did that kinda get
rolling?
Neil Hayes (20:41):
I think you have to go way back to get to the
origins of that, but even evenbefore that, if you're talking
about all that mossier has growninto, you you have to start
with, you know, at some point inthe nineties, the the first few
years of the company, it was allcamouflaging. Like Neil said, my
grandmother sewn garments in hersewn room attic, and Papa
answered the phone for the +1800 number, and and they were
(21:01):
running and gunning with just afew of them for the early days.
And then the first evolution ofall senior pest camouflage was
what probably most people aren'taware of unless you're part of
the eBay group that Neil wastalking about, but or you have
some of your your dad's oldshirts. But a lot of people
consider the greatest buttondown shirts ever made were part
of the moss yoke companionsline. And that was the first
(21:24):
beyond camouflage, Molstowe'sfirst step into casual clothing,
you know, heavyweight, shammyshirts, lightweight, really soft
brushed cotton shirts, and a fewjackets, work pants, and and
things like that.
And it was all under theMolstowe Companions brand name.
And it was dad's slogan that heused for it was instant old
friends. And it was, you know,the thing that embodies the
(21:44):
identity of an instant oldfriend, whether it's the first
twenty four hours you spend witha new duck dog or a night in
camp with somebody who's likeminded to you, you know, cooking
and drinking and listening tomusic and sharing it blind with
each other. And then the waythat your favorite jacket feels
when you pull it out the closet,he wanted to replicate that
through, you know, the firsttime you take it off the coat
hanger. It feels like the youryour new favorite shirt.
(22:05):
Companions was the first forayin, you know, beyond camouflage,
making casual wear, and it wasall, you know, let what that has
stayed true to even to this daythat's god at everything we do
is and the reason I'm talkingabout it is he was obsessed with
this idea that everything we dois guided by mother nature and
the critters and wildlife andthe land. And so he wanted the
the clothing to be developedwith a color palette of, you
(22:27):
know, was all dirt sticks, leaf,bark, leaf, kind of, you know,
same colors that you would findin the first patterns that are
all the vintage patterns thatyou see now. And then a few
years past that, there was dadtells a story, I'm probably
gonna butcher part of it, butthere was a really there was a
really warm winter and it waslike a bunch of them. The big
sporting goods retailers forHoney Brands and apparel had a
(22:50):
had a tough winter, andeverybody was kinda freaking
out. And it kind of inspired dadto, you know, think a little
more deeply about just theapparel that we're selling, and,
he started thinking more aboutthe, you know, if it it weren't
for the critter, we wouldn'thave anything to hunt.
And if it weren't for the landthat that provides habitat and
and a home for the for thecritters, then the critters
(23:10):
wouldn't be here and we wouldn'tbe here. And he he's always been
obsessed and has been instilledthrough my granddad and my
grandmom too of of thisobsession with outdoors and the
the wildlife and the and thedirt. But he from a mulched area
perspective, really startedthinking a lot more deeply about
that in the nineties. And of thefirst things that we did that
branch out beyond, you know,clothing were biologic and
(23:34):
Malteseo properties and Malteseonative nurseries and the things
that have kinda grown into whatwe call the gamekeeper brands.
So for people not familiar,Volsia Properties just started a
little over twenty years ago nowto provide, you know, a real
estate franchise model and brandfor for people that are, you
know, just like us.
If you're looking for hunt landor recreational ag, timberland,
(23:57):
whatever, things that theaverage, for lack of a better
term, somebody that that livesin a concrete jungle. If you're
trying to buy a piece of huntland, you'd rather take it from
a hunter than you would fromsomebody who's who's never been
outside the city. And and thatkinda is where Molshear
Properties originated, and thatwas born out of this obsession
for the land and taking care ofit and having authentic people
(24:18):
who are gonna who to be theactual ones that are, you know,
leading that conversation. Andthen Maltzier Biologic, again,
really natural, but it was onthe probably the the first
really big company to to thinkmore about wildlife nutrition.
And now, you know, you can youcan buy forage and and seed for
for any animal that we that wehunt, whether it's planting
(24:38):
wildflowers and or if it's, youknow, things you wanna plant for
ducks, deer, turkeys, and andall that good stuff.
But that started reallynaturally too, thinking about
the critters and, you know, whatthey eat and all these back then
kind of bogus people feedingwhitetail and and turkey and
duck and whatever. People didn'treally think that much about it.
They would kinda treat it likeanybody would treat, you know,
(24:58):
their cattle farm or whatever.And so they they were just sort
of thinking there has to be abetter way that's more
nutritional that puts thecritter first instead of just
kinda saying, oh, we're gonnafollow these best practices for
a cattle farm and and call it aday. And then multi ignitive
nurseries is our probably, Iwould say, most obscured of all
those.
If you haven't actually been toWest Point or or you're not a,
yeah, a tree guy, you might notbe aware of it, but that was
(25:21):
mine and Neil's first summerjobs when we were in high
school. Was working at our treenursery and pulling weeds and
planting acorns and andgathering acorns from our
favorite different trees aroundaround town with dad and a guy
named Dudley Phelps, who's likeour local tree guru. But the
nursery was our, you know, thenext kind of these little things
that pop up naturally that arethings that dad's obsessed with
(25:42):
that are it's none of none ofthese things are dad sitting
down at night thinking, what canI do to make more money? They're
all natural obsessions that arelike, okay. My mom literally
walked outside the backyard oneday and saw a thousand trees
growing from seedlings stackedup in the corner by the the
fishing pond, and she's like,alright.
You gotta do something aboutthis. We're we can't our
(26:03):
backyard can't be overtaking allthese acorns that that you keep
gathering up. So the the nurserystarted out of necessity with
that. You know, now we've evengot we've got Gamekeepers as I
mentioned, and we publish, youknow, before stewardship became
a a buzzword outside the huntingworld, the Gamekeeper Magazine,
Journal for Wildlife Stewardshiphas been published quarterly for
(26:23):
a decade providing, you know,habitat tips and and ways to
improve your your huntingproperty whether you got a lease
or you own a bunch of land orwhatever it is. These really
manageable, accessible projectsthat you can do to make your
little piece of dirt better.
And now we've even got a dogkennel and we breed multi year
kennels, breeds, British labsfor, all sorts of things.
(26:44):
Obviously, labs are great familydogs, but primarily for duck
hunting. And it's it's it's alljust kinda grown, you know, the
well is this obsession with thecritters and the and the dirt
that Papa and dad have kind ofinstilled in in our family, and
and everything that dad doeskind of is generated from that.
Chris Jennings (27:01):
Yeah. No. It's awesome. And and, you know, just
kinda you you kinda ran down thelist, and I think that really
that really provides ourlisteners, you know, an idea of
the the breadth of of mossy oak,and it's really cool. Like you
said, it all stems each one ofthese stems from, you know, what
I would consider, like, youknow, like the habitat, you
know, the in in in the animals,the wildlife, the habitat, and
(27:24):
it all kinda leads back to areal conservation ethic.
One more that I wanted to askyou about, and and it's Mossy
Oak Wellness. You know, wheredid that kind of come from, and,
you know, how involved with thatare are you guys?
Neil Hayes (27:38):
Yeah. There's there's some other some other
people in the company that aremore hands on with that than
than I am, but that's a that'sanother cool, you know, new
piece of Maltz Yoke that is, youknow, just a little more focused
on it's right now just to treatmixes, hopefully, we'll grow
into some other things that thatare they're helpful for people
for people that are living theirlife outside, you know, having
(28:01):
some little pieces of of of thatlife to to take with them and
continue to build out this kindaall encompassing anything you do
outside, having Mossy Oak be apart of it kinda mentality.
Chris Jennings (28:12):
Very cool. You know, a couple more things that
I wanted to talk to you guysabout, but, you know, you kinda
hit on the Mossy Oak kennels,but I know both of you guys
have, you know, I'm assumingboth of you guys well, you both
said you have your dogs in youroffice, so you guys do, but are
you guys, you know, more handson? Which one of you is probably
the most hands on, like,retriever trainer?
Daniel Hayes (28:30):
Probably myself. But, yeah.
Neil Hayes (28:34):
Neil, I have to cut in and say Neil's also blessed
with Timbo, who is one of thegreatest duck dogs that any of
us have ever hunted with. Sowhile he might be a little
better trainer than than I am,he's also blessed with the the
best dog in town.
Daniel Hayes (28:48):
Yeah. Some some would say that a dog is only as
good as his trainer as well, sono. I'm I'm joking. Timbo's
Timbo was blessed with greatgenes. And, you know, so what
kinda started the kennel thingis, know, growing up, was just a
you know, I wanted my own dog.
My dad had dogs growing up, but,you know, I never had a dog that
was my own, and I asked forevery Easter, Christmas,
birthday, whatever it may havebeen from when I was 10 years
(29:09):
old till, you know, high school.Always wanted to dog moan,
always wanted to dog moan, anddad always said, Well, you won't
be able to handleresponsibility. You're too
young. And so finally, he got mea dog when I was, like, 16. He
got me a black lab, a Britishlab, and his name was Jake, and
that kinda started.
He was an unbelievable dog, thewhole family loved him, was a
family dog, and that kind ofsparked our obsession with
(29:33):
British Lab specifically, butjust seeing how great a dog they
were. And so from that really iswhere the kennel was kinda
originated, kinda breeding andselling British labs. And
anyway, Timbo is the son ofJake, so Jake was my first dog,
Timbo's been my second dog, andboth are more phenomenal dogs.
Yeah, I think you know,everybody loves to duck hunt,
(29:54):
but, you know, anybody that hasa dog will tell you that, you
know, it's just not as much funwithout a dog. It just adds that
whole dynamic.
And, you know, I do a lot oftimes, and I'm sure a lot of
people do this, but I duck hunt,you know, four or five times a
year. I'll just go out, just meand Timbo. We'll go way off into
the back of the swamp and win anArgo or a boat or something, and
(30:15):
we'll, you know, we'll just gokill, you know, try to kill,
scratch out a limited ducks,just me and him. And, you know,
I love hunting with friends,turkey hunting and duck hunting
specifically, but, you know,there's a really cool thing
about just hunting with you anda dog, just, you know, by
yourselves out in the woods, andnobody's talking, it's just
completely quiet. So anyway, afew times a year, I love just,
(30:36):
you know, Timbo and I juststriking out through the woods
and seeing if we can't bringback a few ducks.
VO (30:48):
Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, sponsored by
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Chris Jennings (32:46):
What would you consider to be, like, you know,
your best duck hunting momentor, you know, kinda like Neil
explained, like, that'ssomething that he really looks
forward to. But but, Daniel, foryou, like, what makes duck
hunting so special to you?
Neil Hayes (33:00):
My answer is pretty similar to Neil now that, you
know, Neil just had his firstson, Toxie Junior, and I just
got engaged a week ago, but Idon't have kids yet. So our our
kids is and and, you know, babybaby Toxie is not a year old
yet, so our dogs are our youknow, every single person that
we know and and everybody thattakes their kids hunting, they
they all it's like your life haschanged, and you've got a whole
(33:23):
different, you know, motivationto get out there and and make it
good and share with your kidsand all that kind of stuff. But
for now, yeah, with Neil. AndI've I gotta mention just be
remiss forgetting it, but withthe kennels, Bill Gibson, who's
our multi x director of Gundogapp operations, which I think
we're probably the only outdoorbrand that has that job title.
(33:44):
But the kennels are actually inmy backyard, and Neil, before he
got married, lived in that housewith me.
So we both spend a lot of timearound all the dogs because we
can hear them barking everysecond of the day, 200 yards
from our our backyard. So we'rewe're back there all the time.
Bill Gibson is my dad's nextdoor neighbor. And so for years,
he would he bred dogs in thebackyard and him and dad would
(34:05):
go train dogs in the backyard intheir in their fishing pond back
there. So that came about reallynaturally from from them.
But, yeah, I would back to mepersonally hunting. You know, we
we're really, really lucky thatwe live in in West Point, which
if you haven't been here, it's avery small town right outside of
Starkville where MississippiState is. And all of our
families' hunt land that we'vegrown up with is is right here
(34:27):
on the edge of town. So, youknow, we can we can get duck
hunting, stay at the cabin, wakeup, go duck hunting with the
dogs, and stroll into theoffice, barely lay for work
with, you know, barefoot, leavethe waiters in the bed of the
truck, and and walk right in. Sowe're we're really lucky that
our duck hunting is reallyaccessible and, you know, do all
in thanks to to dad because,obviously, East Mississippi over
(34:51):
here, we're we're Northeast.
We're not in the naturalflyaway, so it's really, really
important for us more so thanmaybe areas that are in the
direct flyaway to to have a lotof food and and imprint on these
ducks and give them a reason tocome back. And, you know,
luckily, since we've been inkindergarten and not old enough
to to know that ducks have toeat anything, dad's been worried
(35:13):
about habitat and having foodfor for ducks to be able to
count on, having a littlesanctuary set aside that he can
plant every year, we don't hunt,and we know that the ducks can
almost treat it like a littlereservoir. And luckily, the
whole time we were growing up,dad was year after year after
year just obsessed with withducks and getting them back
(35:34):
every single year and and givingthem a reason outside of the
main flyway to to stop throughon the edge of West Point,
Mississippi and give us give usa little something to hunt. So
our standards for a good huntmight not be the same as
somebody who's hunting somefamous duck area in the Delta in
Arkansas or whatever.
But luckily, I I wouldn't tradeit for the for being lucky
(35:54):
enough to hunt twenty minutesfrom office and and stroll back
in in our small town here. Beingable to get out there a lot with
our with our dogs. One one pieceof that's that's kinda funny is
that me, Neil, and dad are arealmost always the three of us
hunting together. And like Neilsaid, occasionally, if the
schedules don't work out, we'll,
Daniel Hayes (36:11):
you
Neil Hayes (36:11):
know, we'll split up. Neil and Timo go by
themselves or or whatever. Butthe most part, we're always
hunting together. Dad's got hisdog, Gus. Neil's got his dog,
Timo, and I've got my dog, Fitz.
So a lot of people think, oh, ifwe hunt if we hunted 20 mornings
in a row, they might think thatour dog is the most well
seasoned dog in NortheastMississippi, but we are on a
constant rotation. The some dogis gonna get their feelings hurt
(36:33):
every single morning because thethree of us are gonna go, and
it's Gus' turn, and it's Timmy'sturn, and then it's Fitz's turn.
So they're they're alwayssubbing in and out for each
other. So we've always got onechomping at the bits ready to
go.
Chris Jennings (36:43):
That's awesome. Go ahead, Neil.
Daniel Hayes (36:44):
Yeah. Just to answer your question, though,
but I think my, you know, myfavorite part of waterfowl
hunting is, you know, probably alot of people's is is just how
cool it is, you know, because,you know, you manage a place and
and you live in a place, and,you know, your ducks and your
deer I mean, your turkeys andyour deer are there year round.
You're all they're always onyour farm wherever your place
is, wherever you hunt. But it'ssuch a cool aspect of, you know,
(37:08):
the ducks just completelyleaving, going thousands of
miles away, you know, some allway as far as Alaska. And just
how cool it is to know that thatduck can just turn back around
and fly right back to where heleft, and knowing right where he
left, and imprinting ducks, andand giving them a reason, like
Daniel said, to come back tothat area and, you know,
creating you know, dad's gotthis he's had this obsession for
(37:29):
over twenty years now, the firstpiece of dirt he ever bought in
Mississippi.
He immediately built a duckimpoundment, and then he just it
started from there, and he'sprobably built, you know, 14 or
15 waterfowl impoundments on,you know, our family land here
in West Point over the years. Hejust got this obsession with
creating waterfowl habitat, andit's been really cool to see
over the years. But, you know,as far as favorite stories from
(37:50):
hunting, there's a lot of them.My favorite you know, my my
first band, you know, I wasprobably about 12 years old, and
dad dad and I were oneafternoon, so, you know, there's
a bunch of mallards coming inthis corn flooded cornfield we
had, and we went out and justkinda built a little makeshift
line out of some cane. And sureenough, first first green head
that came in the decoys I shot.
You know, he didn't even bring agun. He just watched me shoot
(38:12):
and, you know, shot green head,killed it, dog went out there
and got it and brought it back.And and, you know, having my
first band, just me and dadhunting together like that has
always been a really specialmemory. And then one other
memory was one of our friends isa a Navy SEAL. You know, he's
been a Navy SEAL for over twentyyears, about as decorated as you
(38:32):
can be.
And but about, I don't know,maybe ten years ago, he, had a
kid, about 10 years old, and hewas like, you know, he's just
wearing me out. He's killed likea wood duck, but he's just
obsessed with wanting to kill amallard. He's never killed one.
It's like a dream if it is tokill a mallard. And at the end
that year, you know, it was agreat duck hunting.
We were seeing a lot ofmallards. And so was like, look,
(38:52):
that's no problem. We'll go out,you know, come over here this
weekend and and we'll do andwe'll get it done. And so we're
setting up the decoys, you know,the first light, you know, told
his son, I said, come out here,you know, we're staying kinda
out there outside the blind,closer to the decoys, right at
the first light, you know,watching ducks come in before
shooting hours, and, you know,he's just, you know, head
spinning. And, anyway, the rightafter shooting light, the first
(39:15):
green hair that came in decoys,you know, were standing out
there and he shot it.
My old Jake went out there andpicked it up and brought it
back, and sure enough, it had aband on it. So that was his
first mallard ever was a bandedgreenhead, so I That always like
to tell that was a pretty coolcool deal to do that, and then
get get back to our friend who'sspent so many years in the
service and, you know, helpinghim out get his first mallard.
Chris Jennings (39:37):
Yeah. That's perfect. I don't think you could
have set that up any better. Imean, you couldn't script that
You know, banded duck on thefirst one. That's, like, that's
so cool.
And and that kinda brings it allfull circle right there with,
you know, your guys' passionfor, you know, the habitat,
really. It's and it's not justthe habitat as we discussed.
It's everything to do with thehabitat, the ducks, deer,
(39:58):
turkeys, you know, all thewildlife. And and that kinda
leads me to, you know, one of mylast questions here. Just when
you guys were looking for, let'syou know, a partner in
conservation, you know, whatwhat made you guys kinda
gravitate towards DucksUnlimited?
Neil Hayes (40:11):
Well, I think Ducks Unlimited, more so than a lot of
other organizations, it's kindof one of those things that is,
you know, there's always beenthis struggle in the whitetail
world for somebody to kind ofcrack the code of making
everybody feel like they have tobe part of an organization. It's
never really worked out. But youI mean, what someone does
similar with turkeys, eventhough National Wild Turkey
Federation has done an amazingjob of building the community
(40:33):
and they do a lot of great work.How someone treats their turkey
habitat in Michigan is not evergonna affect the turkey
population in West Point,Mississippi, and same with deer.
What somebody does in Illinoisis never gonna have an effect on
what we're doing down here,barring some crazy kind of
events that happens.
(40:53):
But with waterfowl, you can't doit on your own. And without the
the help of someone like DucksUnlimited taking care of of all
these really daunting problemsthat there's no way little
hunting communities can solve ontheir own, there's just there's
just no possible way that wewould all survive or that we
would know that somebody islooking after the the critters
and and waterfowl all over NorthAmerica are in good hands no
(41:16):
matter what point of themigration they're on. If it's
habitat down here for peoplethat only stay in when they're
hunting or if it's habitat fromstopover areas or or parts of
the country that people nevertravel. And it it's just it's
more essential with waterfowl, Ifeel like, than just about
anything else to make sure thatpeople like you guys are taking
care of everything for us sothat the ducks are gonna show
(41:37):
back
Daniel Hayes (41:37):
up next year. And we
Neil Hayes (41:38):
know that when the duck season closes, waiting
until next November to come,that y'all are working with all
the best biologists in thecountry, and working with all
the best local landowners andfarmers and whoever else taking
care of all these projects thatare completely essential to
making sure that the resourcesare around for another hundred
years.
Chris Jennings (41:55):
Awesome, man. No. That's perfect. And I know
here at Ducks Unlimited, weappreciate Mossy Oak's
partnership. You know, it it itjust seems to be such a natural
fit, and and you guys are agreat partner.
Even with things like thiscoming on the podcast, kinda
sharing your story, it it'sreally cool for our audience to
hear your guys' personalstories. And one last question
(42:16):
before I get you out of here.Who's a better shot between you
two? Oh, it got it got quietreal quick.
Neil Hayes (42:25):
I'll I'll answer this so Neil doesn't sound like
he's dragging, but Neil Neil isNeil's better at a lot of things
than me. I feel like I have totry a little harder that the,
you know, my my dad and mygranddad both have you know, I
think they're woodsman on thelevel that that Daniel Bruin or
some old frontiersman wouldappreciate. They've got this
level of woodmanship that'sunbelievable, and you really see
(42:46):
it when you're turkey huntingmore than anything. But Neil
Neil has a lot of that in him,and I've got a lot of get lost
in the woods walking to the treein me. And I think I guess that
translates to Neil being abetter shot too because I can
I've got no problem admittingthat one.
Daniel Hayes (43:00):
There's there's been plenty of days where
Daniel's outshot me. So, yeah,it just depends on the day, I
think.
Chris Jennings (43:06):
That's awesome. That's that's cool.
Neil Hayes (43:08):
That was a
Chris Jennings (43:08):
that was a good way to answer. You guys are both
so nice to each other. It'sawesome. Being being kind, not
not cribbing the
Daniel Hayes (43:14):
Once the phone call ends once the phone call
ends, I'm sure we'll we'll getinto an argument about who's the
better shot.
Chris Jennings (43:19):
Perfect. That's all I was trying to do is just
start an argument between youguys. Man, guys, this has been
great. You know, I reallyenjoyed hearing your guys'
story, hearing the, know, MossyOak story. I appreciate you
coming on, and you know what?
We're gonna have to try and getyou guys back on again,
especially once season kicks on,you know, maybe or the season
kicks in. What we could do isbring you on to kinda do a
(43:40):
little bit of a maybe amigration type update from your
area down there to kinda seewhat you guys are seeing. We
still have, what, like a monthor so till season kicks in
there.
Daniel Hayes (43:49):
So Yeah. We're we're already starting to see
some it's not even November yet.We're already starting to see
big ducks flying around and andusing some of the water that we
have. Most of our stuff is isdry, but some of the sloughs and
stuff, there's already ducksaround.
Chris Jennings (44:00):
That's exciting. That's a way to get excited
about it.
Daniel Hayes (44:04):
Yeah. Just it's hard to watch them for a whole
month knowing you can't go doanything about it. But, yeah, I
mean, it is fun watching them,and then that dad says all the
time, you know, he spends allhis energy creating his
waterfowl habitat, and he lovesto shoot ducks more that just as
much as the next person, butmore than that, he loves
watching ducks. You know? He'lljust go out and just watch ducks
for hours and just watch themflying in and big groups coming
(44:25):
into the ponds and and just, youknow, he just he loves being
able to just sit and watch them,and so that's one of his
favorite things.
And so I've always thoughtthat's pretty cool.
Neil Hayes (44:33):
He is he did definitely his obsession comes
out if you ever get there'sthere's some mornings where he's
paranoid that we don't have anyducks anywhere, and, you know,
we go to the one spot where heknows we have ducks, and legal
shooting time gets here, and hewon't let anybody in the blind
shoot, and he just wants towatch the ducks fly. Because
it's it's it's so paranoid thatthe the ducks are gonna leave or
that we're gonna, you know, forshort term, ten, fifteen minutes
(44:55):
right at shooting light, killinga bunch of ducks is is gonna
gonna harm the rest of theseason or whatever. There there
are plenty of mornings where hejust gets out there and watches
ducks, and me and Niller kind ofelbowing him in the ribs. And he
yeah. I mean, he he's like a kidin a candy store.
If he's got ducks and he'swatching him fly, you just see
the little twinkle in his eye.He's got you know, there's that
little there's like a, I think,a natural wonder that
(45:17):
everybody's born with that youhave when you're a kid, when
you're walking around the woodsand everything's new. And the
world kinda, you know,conditioned people to leave that
behind as they grew up, but dadnever lost that. And whether
it's turkeys, deer, ducks, oreven walking around with my
grandmother seeing all thewildflowers that are growing on
our property, I mean, everyaspect of the land and the and
(45:38):
the critters he's just obsessedwith.
Chris Jennings (45:39):
That's awesome. No. That's perfect. Hey, guys. I
appreciate you coming on.
Well, like I said, we're gonnahave to do it again here soon,
and, yeah, thanks a lot.
Daniel Hayes (45:47):
Yeah. We'd love to come back, and we appreciate you
having us, and look forward totalking ducks in the future.
Chris Jennings (45:52):
I'd like to thank my guests, Daniel and Neil
Hayes from Mossy Oak for joiningme today and talking about the
history of Mossy Oak and alittle bit about their own duck
hunting, which was awesome. I'dlike to thank our producer,
Chris Isaac, for putting theshow together and getting it out
to you, and I'd like to thankyou, the listener, for joining
us on the DU podcast andsupporting Welland's
Conservation.
VO (46:12):
Thank you for listening to the DU podcast sponsored by
Purina Pro Plan, the officialperformance dog food of Ducks
Unlimited. Purina Pro Plan,always advancing. Also proudly
sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskeyand Cocktails. Whether you're
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(46:34):
Be sure to rate, review, andsubscribe to the show and visit
ducks.org/dupodcast. Opinionsexpressed by guests do not
necessarily reflect those ofDucks Unlimited. Until next
time, stay tuned to the Ducks.
Welcome to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, Reloaded. We
bring you the best of our pastepisodes. Whether you're a
seasoned waterfowler or curiousabout conservation, this series
is for you. Over the years,we've had incredible guests and
discussions about everythingfrom wetland conservation to the
latest waterfowl research andhunting strategies. In Reloaded,
(02:04):
we're revisiting thoseconversations to keep the
passion alive and the missionstrong.
So sit back, relax, and enjoythis reload.
Chris Jennings (02:16):
Joining us today is a great partner of Ducks
Unlimited. We have Daniel Hayesand Neil Hayes from Mossy Oak.
Hey, guys. Welcome to the DucksUnlimited podcast.
Daniel Hayes (02:25):
Thank you for having for having us.
Chris Jennings (02:27):
We'll get this thing kicked off, and we'll do
this the same way that we do alot of shows. I want you guys to
kind of tell us a little bitabout yourself before we get
into Mossy Oak, you know, whatyou guys do at Mossy Oak, where
is Mossy Oak located, You know,where you guys live, where you
guys hunt, everything like that.So, Daniel, can you go ahead and
start us with that?
Neil Hayes (02:44):
Yeah. And Neil and I are twins. And since we have
such a a strong history betweenMossy Oak and dad and our
granddad and outdoors ingeneral. Pretty much our entire
lives are kinda chartedalongside each other with all of
our memories hunting and growingup and, you know, where family's
really important to us. So allof our memories, me and Neil,
(03:05):
are inseparable for most of ourlives even now, especially duck
hunting, sharing a blind witheach other, shooting in the
woods.
So but, yeah, you know, we bothgrown up in West Point, went to
Mississippi State fifteenminutes from from West Point.
Campus is is close by theoffice. Our parents,
grandparents, everybody wentthere, and then we're, you know,
(03:26):
right after that back at atMalsy Oak. And and ever since
then, we've just been workingfor Malsy and taking on all
sorts of different projects thatfall under the brand.
Chris Jennings (03:38):
No. That's awesome. And, Neil, how about
you?
Daniel Hayes (03:41):
Yeah. Kind of echoing what Daniel said. You
know, we've we've grown up. Youknow, we had great influences
growing up with our granddad andour dad really teaching us a lot
about not only hunting, butconservation and woodsmanship
and taking care of the resourceand all that kind of stuff. And
so it gives us good appreciationfrom a young age, and, you know,
hopefully, you know, we'll teachour kids the same, and, that's
(04:01):
kinda what keeps all this aroundfor everyone, and you guys know
that better than anyone.
But yeah, we're just we're bigon conservation and anything we
can do to help the resource. Andso we do a ton of work, and
that's why I think Mossy Oak andDucks Unlimited are such great
partners, just because theybelieve in a lot of the same
(04:22):
things.
Chris Jennings (04:22):
Absolutely. Let's kinda discuss before we
started the show, we had a briefconversation to really get into
the story of Mossy Oak. Youknow, it's such a big brand, but
but I don't know which one ofyou wants to take this on, but,
you know, how did how did thisstart? How did the entire brand
start?
Daniel Hayes (04:41):
I'll let Daniel kick us off with this one. He's
a pretty good storyteller.
Chris Jennings (04:44):
There you go.
Neil Hayes (04:45):
Yeah. Neil and I could both take this one. It's
enjoyable to to tell and tothink about even though we
weren't around for the earlydays. Our granddad, Pawpaw, as
everybody else knows him as asmister Fox, but he is from
Mobile, Alabama. And so he grewup down there.
And a lot of our family on hisside of the family is from South
Alabama. And so some of our oldfamily friends had a an old
(05:06):
hunting club called ChoctawBluff that Neil could give into
the history a lot more there ofChoctaw Bluff. But because of of
papa hunting there when dad wasold enough to hunt, he spent a
lot of his life. My granddadended up coming State and
building a life in West Pointwith my grandmother, and so
that's how Boss Oak ended upbeing tied to this area, but he
never left his roots to ChoctawBluff and hunting with his
(05:28):
original hunting buddies. Whatpapa cared more about than
anything back then was turkeyhunting.
And so he would take my dadturkey hunting down there and
they had the hunting club brokeninto a lot of different
territories and there was anarea that had a tree on it that
was kind of a a meeting pointbecause it was an oak mix in the
middle of a bunch of ponds, soit was an easy identification.
(05:48):
So, you know, made it to mossyoke tree. So if you're hunting
in the area where the moss yokewas, it was a common commonly
known tree that you could use asa as a meet up point. So when
dad was, you know, he washunting with with top ball
turkey hunting every spring andgetting frustrated at the the
lack of mobility that hiscamouflage offered him because
back then, you know, it had beensome kinda grimy looking
(06:10):
military camo that really stuckout like a sore thumb in in
South Alabama and build theseintricate blinds to try to you
know, you pretty much have to beconfined to one tree and that
doesn't really work out too wellif you're turkey hunting as as
anybody who turkey huntingknows. So dad was so frustrated
that there wasn't a simplesolution because he just knew
that if you had clothes on yourback that resembled the area
(06:32):
that you're hunting or lookedlike the tree that you were
trying to sit up against, thatyou could you wouldn't make a
find on one tree.
You could, you know, chaseturkey turkey around the woods
and and become invisible nomatter where you were. So that
kinda was the initial idea forfor Maltese Oak and Bottomland
as everybody knows the originalpattern. The inspiration for it
wasn't, you know, all sorts ofcompanies pop up left and right
(06:53):
and, you know, somebody mightjust think they see an
opportunity to sell acamouflaged t shirt or a shirt
or jacket or whatever it is forprofit and turn it into a
business and and make a living.But dad's, genuinely, he was
just trying to figure out a away to better hide from turkeys.
Chris Jennings (07:08):
Yeah. Just kind of like innovation due to
necessity right there. You know,he was just trying to kill a
turkey, and that's awesome.
Neil Hayes (07:15):
That is exactly right. So, yeah, so anyway, he
he literally got a handful ofdirt, sticks, and leaves in a
ziplock bag and went to workwith a designer and a and a
textile mill to try to figureout how to match up the and we
have the if next time y'all arein West Point, you can come see
it. But we've got, you know,some of the original garments
and the original cotton and theeven the Pantone colors and the
(07:37):
original sketches of ofBottomland with dad trying to
figure out, you know, how to howto get the colors matched up
perfectly with what heenvisioned in his head. And when
they kicked around names for thecompany trying to figure out
what they were gonna call it,they they probably some some
ones that wouldn't have agedquite as well trying to figure
out what to call it and and theyeventually between dad and papa,
(07:59):
riding the dirt roads downthere, the name Moss Yoke just
kinda popped in their heads and,you know, it was a perfect name.
So it stuck and everybody lovedit and and luckily, we I don't
know that this name was actuallykicked around, but everybody
jokes that they were telling himto call it Invisiflodge or some
other goofy name like that.
And thankfully for for everyoneinvolved.
Daniel Hayes (08:18):
Thank thank thank goodness that never happened.
Neil Hayes (08:20):
Yeah. That didn't happen, and and Mossy Oak, it,
you know, it it was an instantclassic, and and we think it's a
great name still to this day.
Daniel Hayes (08:28):
You know, when dad was able to get that first roll
of fabric printed andeverything, my grandmother, our
grandmother is a very, very goodexpert sewer, and so she sewed
all the clothes together in thefirst early days. She sewed
everything in her attic, and I'msorry, have my duck hunting dog
in the room with me.
Chris Jennings (08:46):
No, it's perfect.
Daniel Hayes (08:47):
Yeah. I figured I would add add a little bit of a
know, to the Ducks Unlimitedpodcast, have a duck dog, but
but, yeah, that that's part ofthe, you know, cool story is,
you know, for the first coupleyears, you know, they're, you
know, taking phone calls fromthe house line and selling the
clothes in the attic and don'teven have enough money saved up
yet to buy an office space oranything like that. It really
was a built from the ground uptype company out of nowhere, so
(09:10):
it's a pretty cool success storyfrom doing something that
everyone told you that was kindastupid and wouldn't work, and it
was kinda you know, just a sillyidea kinda thing.
Chris Jennings (09:19):
No. That's great, and it's a cool story,
and I and I and I've I've heardsome of that or or or read most
of it, but I'm sure that ouraudience did not know. But it
it's also cool when you sitthere and you look at the logo.
You know, the company logo trulyis like, you know, that mossy
oak. And and my only questionthere, is that tree still
standing?
Do you guys, like, own thatproperty now or that that one
(09:41):
mossy oak?
Daniel Hayes (09:41):
No. It's so the hunting club is is owned by
kinda one family, and a lot ofit's leased ground and stuff
like that. But it's a really Imean, the hunting club was
started in the nineteentwenties. It's one of the oldest
turkey hunting clubs in NorthAmerica. Maybe the oldest, I'm
not sure.
But tree actually got struck bylightning probably fifteen years
(10:03):
ago, something like, maybelonger. But the family that owns
the property was able to salvagea bunch of the wood and get it
cut into a bunch of boards. Andthe last 15 or so, we've been
able to make some pretty cool,making duck calls and turkey
calls and things of that natureout of the wood. So we've been
able to use the wood from thetree in some pretty cool
(10:23):
projects.
Chris Jennings (10:23):
Man, that's cool. That's kinda like the
natural story. You can make abaseball bat out of it or
something.
Neil Hayes (10:28):
Yeah. No. Our our if we had more of the wood, we
would have had everything underthe sun made from it, and a
baseball bat would have been oneof those things. But, you know,
luckily, we've been able to makesome you know, we've had turkey
calls, crow calls, knifehandles, duck calls, a bunch of
really really cool things made.Obviously, not for sale.
Yeah. Short of a few, you know,auctions that we've used. You
(10:51):
know, we've got our localauction that raises money for
Saint Jude and Catch a Dream,and then we've done some stuff
with the NWTF. It would probablyhave something that would make
sense for a waterfowl project inthe future. But, yeah, those are
those are made for family,friends, and people in our
immediate family and that havebeen around Moss Yoke forever
and and whatnot, but there havebeen some some really cool
things.
(11:11):
And I'll I'll give the shortversion of of this story, but we
actually the most obscure partof that, you know, what we've
made with the Mossy Oak wood,but that is also one of the
coolest because it's the onlyone that you're able to share
with somebody is we made abarrel of whiskey with Jefferson
Reserve in Trey Zeller up therein Kentucky. Mhmm. And, you
(11:31):
know, we we don't we wouldn'thave I always assumed, like,
Woodford has a double oakedwhiskey, and I never I was
didn't know anything about thatprocess, and I assumed it had
something to do with the barrel,and, know, we don't have enough
wood left now to even make astave, let alone a whole barrel.
But we ended up talking to themand they have just kinda like a
finishing process where they canchar little pieces of oak and
they can take an already, youknow, eight or ten year old
(11:53):
barrel of bourbon and steep somewood in there that's you know,
they know the temperature andthe the surface area and the
type of wood to bring outcertain flavors and all that
kind of stuff.
So they charred some of the mosswood, took a barrel of
Jefferson's that had alreadybeen aching nine or ten years,
and then finished it with themossier wood in there for
another about a year and a half.And then a few Christmases back,
(12:15):
we had that barrel bottled forsome family friends and
Daniel Hayes (12:18):
some people
Neil Hayes (12:18):
close to us. And, you know, all the other things
that we've made with the woodare really cool, but they're,
you know, it's just one verytangible, you know, call or
whatever it is that that youown. But the the bourbon is
extremely cool because ifsomebody's in camp with us, you
know, we can share glass andyou're literally drinking a
small piece of history Yeah.With the mossier wood there. So
that is is one of the coolestthings that we've done with it.
Chris Jennings (12:41):
Yeah. That is really cool. Now I know that you
guys are both diehard duckhunters. Do either one of you
have a call from the wood?
Daniel Hayes (12:49):
We do, yes. We both yeah, and some people in
the family decided to put theirsup on a shelf, but I put mine, I
don't really blow it much, but Iput it on my lanyard, it goes
with me everywhere I go. So it'sa little beat up from some of
the rough you know, I've beenknown to go the extra mile and
go through briar patches and andbug brush and whatever I have to
(13:11):
go through to get to where Ineed to duck hunt. So I beat my
gear up pretty good, and so mycall is probably not as in good
shape as most people does, butyeah, I take mine everywhere I
go.
Neil Hayes (13:22):
Luckily, the you know, we we had a pretty we were
able to salvage a decent amountof wood at first, so we were
able to we didn't have to bestingy with, you know, everyone
in the family got a duck call,everyone in the family got a a
turkey call and and whatnot.We're not making any more of
that wood. It's gotta gotta stayaround forever, so the last
little bit we've got left, we'revery, very protective of.
Chris Jennings (13:39):
I'll bet. That's pretty cool. And that's I mean,
that just brings that that storykinda full circle where you have
something in your hand from thattree, and and that that's just
cool. You know, so the entirecompany was kinda based from a
turkey hunting perspective, butdo you guys consider yourselves
maybe more duck hunters orturkey hunters?
Daniel Hayes (14:00):
I would say both. You know, Daniel is probably the
same way, and our dad's the sameway, and we we all love to deer
hunt, but duck hunting andturkey hunting are definitely
our biggest passions. And, youknow, dad grew up you know, we
always say, you know, he grew upand designed the camo to hide
some turkeys and all that, buthe grew up duck hunting on those
same river bottoms that he wasshooting turkeys in and, you
know, mostly shooting woodducks. But, you know, he grew up
(14:21):
duck duck hunting a lot and wasa very avid duck hunter from an
early age, and as as was ourgrandfather. So, yeah, they they
definitely know, he's been bothof them have been duck hunting
their entire lives.
But the the hiding from turkeysis kinda what sparked the idea,
but then it grew into,obviously, hiding from all all
animals and nature.
Neil Hayes (14:37):
And like Neil said, yeah, turkey and turkey and
ducks kinda always are our twofavorite things to hunt. And as
anyone knows, it's warmbottomland and and flooded
timber. The the necessity ofdeveloping that camouflage
pattern originated with turkeys,but because of the area that he
was hunting in, the habitat thathe was hunting in, it's stood
the test of time. It's probablythe most versatile camouflage
pattern for hunting that's everbeen created because it does
(14:59):
work so well whether you're duckhunting or turkey hunting and
and and a lot of areas deerhunting too. It's just such a
good pattern and and especiallynowadays, it's become timeless
because you got a wholedifferent new generation that
didn't grow up with it, but thathas been introduced to it now.
And, you know, you it might havebeen developed in 1986, but now
you can find anybody from a ateenager to someone who's been
(15:21):
hunting their their whole lifeand as an old man wearing it. So
I think it's it's it's prettycool to see the kinda like
generational span of of peoplethat love to wear bottomland,
whether they're duck hunting orturkey hunting or deer or
anything.
Chris Jennings (15:32):
Yeah. No. I mean, bottomland's so popular,
and and that that kinda leads meto my next question, and and and
I don't know if you guys have agood I'm sure you guys have
talked about this, but kind ofthe original bottomland kinda
had a resurgence, you know,recently in well, not too
recently, but, you know, how didyou guys see that or or or even
your dad? It's like, you know,was that just like more
(15:53):
vindication for that patternwhen this kind of resurgence of
the original bottom line?
Daniel Hayes (15:57):
It it started really at Daniel and myself and,
a small group of friends, andreally buying stuff, people
would start selling stuff oneBay, and a small group of
people just would really loveBottom Lane. You couldn't buy it
anywhere. It have kind of beendiscontinued, and and people
were starting to pay, you know,crazy amounts for certain
products in Bottomland, oldvintage clothes and stuff like
(16:19):
hats or whatever. And, you know,we started seeing people paying,
you know, five, six, seven timeswhat what it was originally
purchased for on eBay, and we'relike, well, you know, all this
attention, all these peoplepaying, you know, all this money
for bottom line, we shouldprobably consider bringing it
back. And so that's kinda wherebringing it back started was
just all the attention it wasgetting on, you know, eBay and
stuff like that.
Chris Jennings (16:37):
Yeah. So and I'm just gonna assume that you guys
probably just answered thisquestion, but but what is each
of you, do you guys have, like,a a specific pattern that you
prefer over any other of allMossy Oak patterns?
Daniel Hayes (16:51):
Yeah. Probably bottomland. I mean, you're
you're rarely gonna I mean, wewe love all the patterns, you
know, like, especially, youknow, turkey hunting, you know,
definitely love obsession andgreen leaf and some of those
patterns, and duck hunting love,you know, the shadow grass
patterns and all that. But, youknow, most nine times out of 10,
if we're hunting somewhere,we're standing next to a tree,
(17:13):
so we usually have bottom landon.
Neil Hayes (17:15):
Yeah. And, you know, we've we've got a lot of of
different patterns that havestood the test of time, and
shatter grass is obviously a aphenomenal pattern that was
introduced in the nineties. Andthe newer iterations of that
with Shattergrass blades andShattergrass habitat, you know,
those are those are awesomepatterns. But the connection to
the family and the history ofMolson Oak and the places that
we hunt and all the the, youknow, old jackets we've stolen
(17:38):
from papa and dad out of theirclosets and and all the good
stuff like that. But putting onbottom line and and going to do
whatever kinda hunting you'rehitting the woods for is it just
you know, we've got a lot of oldgarments and and stuff that just
feels like an old friend andespecially the stuff that was
passed down that we stole frompapa or dad and a lot of that
old history is just, like,embodied in bottomland.
(18:00):
And some of the other originalpatterns, you know, bottomland's
like the greatest hit, but and alot of people love green leaf in
early season deer hunting andespecially turkey hunting. But
they it kind of, you know,bottomland is always there. It's
an absolute classic and it'stimeless, but there's a lot of
those vintage patterns thatmaybe you're more obscure. And,
you know, most people are awareof green leaf and tree stand and
(18:21):
the original shadow grasspattern, but then you've got
some of the, you know, fullfoliage and fall foliage that
were part of that first four,five, six years of of camouflage
that not as many people knowabout that if you have an old
jacket or a shirt or orwhatever, they're pretty cool
patterns, and there's not asmuch clothing to go around with
those on them because theyhaven't been reintroduced from
(18:42):
the archives. But, yeah, we'vegot a lot of obscure patterns to
choose from in the archives too.
Chris Jennings (18:47):
No. That's cool, and I know I was pretty excited
to see, you know, the originalshadow grass kind of made an
that's what I, you know, startedhunting in the nineties, early
to mid nineties when I startedduck hunting, and that in in
growing up in Indiana, I I feltlike shadow grass had a had a
really strong foothold thererather than bottom ones because
(19:07):
we're not we don't hunt likeflooded timber, you know, like
duck hunting. We're more it's amuch more variable habitat. So,
you know, I was a big guy, youknow, big fan of Shadow Grass,
the original, and then you guysbrought that back out with
Filson a couple years ago, andthat was that was just so cool.
I mean, I was even gettingemails because I think we ran a
couple of the products in themagazine, and I got a bunch of
(19:28):
emails from people like, hey,man.
When's that gonna be available?You know? Even some buddies that
I grew up hunting with becausewe thought shadow grass was just
like the most awesome thingever, and some guys I grew up
hunting with were like, oh, doyou have one of those?
Neil Hayes (19:39):
Like, that
Chris Jennings (19:39):
is so cool. So that that's that's all kind of a
an interesting aspect to theMossy Oak story is how, you
know, these patterns have stoodthe test of time and and
continue to be brought back tothe forefront and by by fans. I
mean, I guess I guess that's away to to describe, you know,
fans of the pattern. Know, Youwe can probably get into all the
different patterns and and talklike that forever, but, you
(20:01):
know, one thing I wanted to askyou guys is Mossy Oak, you know,
you described the history ofthe, you know, of the company,
of the brand, even the garments,but, you know, you guys have
grown from just, you know, whatyou're describing, you know,
sewing your grandmother sewingin the attic to, you know,
almost like a a massive mediacompany. How has that
(20:24):
transitioned within the company?
You know, you know, you're acamouflage company, but, you
know, that that now that youguys have Mossy Oak Go, you
have, you know, multiplecompanies underneath Mossy Oak,
how has that transition been,and how did that kinda get
rolling?
Neil Hayes (20:41):
I think you have to go way back to get to the
origins of that, but even evenbefore that, if you're talking
about all that mossier has growninto, you you have to start
with, you know, at some point inthe nineties, the the first few
years of the company, it was allcamouflaging. Like Neil said, my
grandmother sewn garments in hersewn room attic, and Papa
answered the phone for the +1800 number, and and they were
(21:01):
running and gunning with just afew of them for the early days.
And then the first evolution ofall senior pest camouflage was
what probably most people aren'taware of unless you're part of
the eBay group that Neil wastalking about, but or you have
some of your your dad's oldshirts. But a lot of people
consider the greatest buttondown shirts ever made were part
of the moss yoke companionsline. And that was the first
(21:24):
beyond camouflage, Molstowe'sfirst step into casual clothing,
you know, heavyweight, shammyshirts, lightweight, really soft
brushed cotton shirts, and a fewjackets, work pants, and and
things like that.
And it was all under theMolstowe Companions brand name.
And it was dad's slogan that heused for it was instant old
friends. And it was, you know,the thing that embodies the
(21:44):
identity of an instant oldfriend, whether it's the first
twenty four hours you spend witha new duck dog or a night in
camp with somebody who's likeminded to you, you know, cooking
and drinking and listening tomusic and sharing it blind with
each other. And then the waythat your favorite jacket feels
when you pull it out the closet,he wanted to replicate that
through, you know, the firsttime you take it off the coat
hanger. It feels like the youryour new favorite shirt.
(22:05):
Companions was the first forayin, you know, beyond camouflage,
making casual wear, and it wasall, you know, let what that has
stayed true to even to this daythat's god at everything we do
is and the reason I'm talkingabout it is he was obsessed with
this idea that everything we dois guided by mother nature and
the critters and wildlife andthe land. And so he wanted the
the clothing to be developedwith a color palette of, you
(22:27):
know, was all dirt sticks, leaf,bark, leaf, kind of, you know,
same colors that you would findin the first patterns that are
all the vintage patterns thatyou see now. And then a few
years past that, there was dadtells a story, I'm probably
gonna butcher part of it, butthere was a really there was a
really warm winter and it waslike a bunch of them. The big
sporting goods retailers forHoney Brands and apparel had a
(22:50):
had a tough winter, andeverybody was kinda freaking
out. And it kind of inspired dadto, you know, think a little
more deeply about just theapparel that we're selling, and,
he started thinking more aboutthe, you know, if it it weren't
for the critter, we wouldn'thave anything to hunt.
And if it weren't for the landthat that provides habitat and
and a home for the for thecritters, then the critters
(23:10):
wouldn't be here and we wouldn'tbe here. And he he's always been
obsessed and has been instilledthrough my granddad and my
grandmom too of of thisobsession with outdoors and the
the wildlife and the and thedirt. But he from a mulched area
perspective, really startedthinking a lot more deeply about
that in the nineties. And of thefirst things that we did that
branch out beyond, you know,clothing were biologic and
(23:34):
Malteseo properties and Malteseonative nurseries and the things
that have kinda grown into whatwe call the gamekeeper brands.
So for people not familiar,Volsia Properties just started a
little over twenty years ago nowto provide, you know, a real
estate franchise model and brandfor for people that are, you
know, just like us.
If you're looking for hunt landor recreational ag, timberland,
(23:57):
whatever, things that theaverage, for lack of a better
term, somebody that that livesin a concrete jungle. If you're
trying to buy a piece of huntland, you'd rather take it from
a hunter than you would fromsomebody who's who's never been
outside the city. And and thatkinda is where Molshear
Properties originated, and thatwas born out of this obsession
for the land and taking care ofit and having authentic people
(24:18):
who are gonna who to be theactual ones that are, you know,
leading that conversation. Andthen Maltzier Biologic, again,
really natural, but it was onthe probably the the first
really big company to to thinkmore about wildlife nutrition.
And now, you know, you can youcan buy forage and and seed for
for any animal that we that wehunt, whether it's planting
(24:38):
wildflowers and or if it's, youknow, things you wanna plant for
ducks, deer, turkeys, and andall that good stuff.
But that started reallynaturally too, thinking about
the critters and, you know, whatthey eat and all these back then
kind of bogus people feedingwhitetail and and turkey and
duck and whatever. People didn'treally think that much about it.
They would kinda treat it likeanybody would treat, you know,
(24:58):
their cattle farm or whatever.And so they they were just sort
of thinking there has to be abetter way that's more
nutritional that puts thecritter first instead of just
kinda saying, oh, we're gonnafollow these best practices for
a cattle farm and and call it aday. And then multi ignitive
nurseries is our probably, Iwould say, most obscured of all
those.
If you haven't actually been toWest Point or or you're not a,
yeah, a tree guy, you might notbe aware of it, but that was
(25:21):
mine and Neil's first summerjobs when we were in high
school. Was working at our treenursery and pulling weeds and
planting acorns and andgathering acorns from our
favorite different trees aroundaround town with dad and a guy
named Dudley Phelps, who's likeour local tree guru. But the
nursery was our, you know, thenext kind of these little things
that pop up naturally that arethings that dad's obsessed with
(25:42):
that are it's none of none ofthese things are dad sitting
down at night thinking, what canI do to make more money? They're
all natural obsessions that arelike, okay. My mom literally
walked outside the backyard oneday and saw a thousand trees
growing from seedlings stackedup in the corner by the the
fishing pond, and she's like,alright.
You gotta do something aboutthis. We're we can't our
(26:03):
backyard can't be overtaking allthese acorns that that you keep
gathering up. So the the nurserystarted out of necessity with
that. You know, now we've evengot we've got Gamekeepers as I
mentioned, and we publish, youknow, before stewardship became
a a buzzword outside the huntingworld, the Gamekeeper Magazine,
Journal for Wildlife Stewardshiphas been published quarterly for
(26:23):
a decade providing, you know,habitat tips and and ways to
improve your your huntingproperty whether you got a lease
or you own a bunch of land orwhatever it is. These really
manageable, accessible projectsthat you can do to make your
little piece of dirt better.
And now we've even got a dogkennel and we breed multi year
kennels, breeds, British labsfor, all sorts of things.
(26:44):
Obviously, labs are great familydogs, but primarily for duck
hunting. And it's it's it's alljust kinda grown, you know, the
well is this obsession with thecritters and the and the dirt
that Papa and dad have kind ofinstilled in in our family, and
and everything that dad doeskind of is generated from that.
Chris Jennings (27:01):
Yeah. No. It's awesome. And and, you know, just
kinda you you kinda ran down thelist, and I think that really
that really provides ourlisteners, you know, an idea of
the the breadth of of mossy oak,and it's really cool. Like you
said, it all stems each one ofthese stems from, you know, what
I would consider, like, youknow, like the habitat, you
know, the in in in the animals,the wildlife, the habitat, and
(27:24):
it all kinda leads back to areal conservation ethic.
One more that I wanted to askyou about, and and it's Mossy
Oak Wellness. You know, wheredid that kind of come from, and,
you know, how involved with thatare are you guys?
Neil Hayes (27:38):
Yeah. There's there's some other some other
people in the company that aremore hands on with that than
than I am, but that's a that'sanother cool, you know, new
piece of Maltz Yoke that is, youknow, just a little more focused
on it's right now just to treatmixes, hopefully, we'll grow
into some other things that thatare they're helpful for people
for people that are living theirlife outside, you know, having
(28:01):
some little pieces of of of thatlife to to take with them and
continue to build out this kindaall encompassing anything you do
outside, having Mossy Oak be apart of it kinda mentality.
Chris Jennings (28:12):
Very cool. You know, a couple more things that
I wanted to talk to you guysabout, but, you know, you kinda
hit on the Mossy Oak kennels,but I know both of you guys
have, you know, I'm assumingboth of you guys well, you both
said you have your dogs in youroffice, so you guys do, but are
you guys, you know, more handson? Which one of you is probably
the most hands on, like,retriever trainer?
Daniel Hayes (28:30):
Probably myself. But, yeah.
Neil Hayes (28:34):
Neil, I have to cut in and say Neil's also blessed
with Timbo, who is one of thegreatest duck dogs that any of
us have ever hunted with. Sowhile he might be a little
better trainer than than I am,he's also blessed with the the
best dog in town.
Daniel Hayes (28:48):
Yeah. Some some would say that a dog is only as
good as his trainer as well, sono. I'm I'm joking. Timbo's
Timbo was blessed with greatgenes. And, you know, so what
kinda started the kennel thingis, know, growing up, was just a
you know, I wanted my own dog.
My dad had dogs growing up, but,you know, I never had a dog that
was my own, and I asked forevery Easter, Christmas,
birthday, whatever it may havebeen from when I was 10 years
(29:09):
old till, you know, high school.Always wanted to dog moan,
always wanted to dog moan, anddad always said, Well, you won't
be able to handleresponsibility. You're too
young. And so finally, he got mea dog when I was, like, 16. He
got me a black lab, a Britishlab, and his name was Jake, and
that kinda started.
He was an unbelievable dog, thewhole family loved him, was a
family dog, and that kind ofsparked our obsession with
(29:33):
British Lab specifically, butjust seeing how great a dog they
were. And so from that really iswhere the kennel was kinda
originated, kinda breeding andselling British labs. And
anyway, Timbo is the son ofJake, so Jake was my first dog,
Timbo's been my second dog, andboth are more phenomenal dogs.
Yeah, I think you know,everybody loves to duck hunt,
(29:54):
but, you know, anybody that hasa dog will tell you that, you
know, it's just not as much funwithout a dog. It just adds that
whole dynamic.
And, you know, I do a lot oftimes, and I'm sure a lot of
people do this, but I duck hunt,you know, four or five times a
year. I'll just go out, just meand Timbo. We'll go way off into
the back of the swamp and win anArgo or a boat or something, and
(30:15):
we'll, you know, we'll just gokill, you know, try to kill,
scratch out a limited ducks,just me and him. And, you know,
I love hunting with friends,turkey hunting and duck hunting
specifically, but, you know,there's a really cool thing
about just hunting with you anda dog, just, you know, by
yourselves out in the woods, andnobody's talking, it's just
completely quiet. So anyway, afew times a year, I love just,
(30:36):
you know, Timbo and I juststriking out through the woods
and seeing if we can't bringback a few ducks.
VO (30:48):
Stay tuned to the Ducks Unlimited podcast, sponsored by
Purina Pro Plan and Bird DogWhiskey after these messages.
Chris Jennings (32:46):
What would you consider to be, like, you know,
your best duck hunting momentor, you know, kinda like Neil
explained, like, that'ssomething that he really looks
forward to. But but, Daniel, foryou, like, what makes duck
hunting so special to you?
Neil Hayes (33:00):
My answer is pretty similar to Neil now that, you
know, Neil just had his firstson, Toxie Junior, and I just
got engaged a week ago, but Idon't have kids yet. So our our
kids is and and, you know, babybaby Toxie is not a year old
yet, so our dogs are our youknow, every single person that
we know and and everybody thattakes their kids hunting, they
they all it's like your life haschanged, and you've got a whole
(33:23):
different, you know, motivationto get out there and and make it
good and share with your kidsand all that kind of stuff. But
for now, yeah, with Neil. AndI've I gotta mention just be
remiss forgetting it, but withthe kennels, Bill Gibson, who's
our multi x director of Gundogapp operations, which I think
we're probably the only outdoorbrand that has that job title.
(33:44):
But the kennels are actually inmy backyard, and Neil, before he
got married, lived in that housewith me.
So we both spend a lot of timearound all the dogs because we
can hear them barking everysecond of the day, 200 yards
from our our backyard. So we'rewe're back there all the time.
Bill Gibson is my dad's nextdoor neighbor. And so for years,
he would he bred dogs in thebackyard and him and dad would
(34:05):
go train dogs in the backyard intheir in their fishing pond back
there. So that came about reallynaturally from from them.
But, yeah, I would back to mepersonally hunting. You know, we
we're really, really lucky thatwe live in in West Point, which
if you haven't been here, it's avery small town right outside of
Starkville where MississippiState is. And all of our
families' hunt land that we'vegrown up with is is right here
(34:27):
on the edge of town. So, youknow, we can we can get duck
hunting, stay at the cabin, wakeup, go duck hunting with the
dogs, and stroll into theoffice, barely lay for work
with, you know, barefoot, leavethe waiters in the bed of the
truck, and and walk right in. Sowe're we're really lucky that
our duck hunting is reallyaccessible and, you know, do all
in thanks to to dad because,obviously, East Mississippi over
(34:51):
here, we're we're Northeast.
We're not in the naturalflyaway, so it's really, really
important for us more so thanmaybe areas that are in the
direct flyaway to to have a lotof food and and imprint on these
ducks and give them a reason tocome back. And, you know,
luckily, since we've been inkindergarten and not old enough
to to know that ducks have toeat anything, dad's been worried
(35:13):
about habitat and having foodfor for ducks to be able to
count on, having a littlesanctuary set aside that he can
plant every year, we don't hunt,and we know that the ducks can
almost treat it like a littlereservoir. And luckily, the
whole time we were growing up,dad was year after year after
year just obsessed with withducks and getting them back
(35:34):
every single year and and givingthem a reason outside of the
main flyway to to stop throughon the edge of West Point,
Mississippi and give us give usa little something to hunt. So
our standards for a good huntmight not be the same as
somebody who's hunting somefamous duck area in the Delta in
Arkansas or whatever.
But luckily, I I wouldn't tradeit for the for being lucky
(35:54):
enough to hunt twenty minutesfrom office and and stroll back
in in our small town here. Beingable to get out there a lot with
our with our dogs. One one pieceof that's that's kinda funny is
that me, Neil, and dad are arealmost always the three of us
hunting together. And like Neilsaid, occasionally, if the
schedules don't work out, we'll,
Daniel Hayes (36:11):
you
Neil Hayes (36:11):
know, we'll split up. Neil and Timo go by
themselves or or whatever. Butthe most part, we're always
hunting together. Dad's got hisdog, Gus. Neil's got his dog,
Timo, and I've got my dog, Fitz.
So a lot of people think, oh, ifwe hunt if we hunted 20 mornings
in a row, they might think thatour dog is the most well
seasoned dog in NortheastMississippi, but we are on a
constant rotation. The some dogis gonna get their feelings hurt
(36:33):
every single morning because thethree of us are gonna go, and
it's Gus' turn, and it's Timmy'sturn, and then it's Fitz's turn.
So they're they're alwayssubbing in and out for each
other. So we've always got onechomping at the bits ready to
go.
Chris Jennings (36:43):
That's awesome. Go ahead, Neil.
Daniel Hayes (36:44):
Yeah. Just to answer your question, though,
but I think my, you know, myfavorite part of waterfowl
hunting is, you know, probably alot of people's is is just how
cool it is, you know, because,you know, you manage a place and
and you live in a place, and,you know, your ducks and your
deer I mean, your turkeys andyour deer are there year round.
You're all they're always onyour farm wherever your place
is, wherever you hunt. But it'ssuch a cool aspect of, you know,
(37:08):
the ducks just completelyleaving, going thousands of
miles away, you know, some allway as far as Alaska. And just
how cool it is to know that thatduck can just turn back around
and fly right back to where heleft, and knowing right where he
left, and imprinting ducks, andand giving them a reason, like
Daniel said, to come back tothat area and, you know,
creating you know, dad's gotthis he's had this obsession for
(37:29):
over twenty years now, the firstpiece of dirt he ever bought in
Mississippi.
He immediately built a duckimpoundment, and then he just it
started from there, and he'sprobably built, you know, 14 or
15 waterfowl impoundments on,you know, our family land here
in West Point over the years. Hejust got this obsession with
creating waterfowl habitat, andit's been really cool to see
over the years. But, you know,as far as favorite stories from
(37:50):
hunting, there's a lot of them.My favorite you know, my my
first band, you know, I wasprobably about 12 years old, and
dad dad and I were oneafternoon, so, you know, there's
a bunch of mallards coming inthis corn flooded cornfield we
had, and we went out and justkinda built a little makeshift
line out of some cane. And sureenough, first first green head
that came in the decoys I shot.
You know, he didn't even bring agun. He just watched me shoot
(38:12):
and, you know, shot green head,killed it, dog went out there
and got it and brought it back.And and, you know, having my
first band, just me and dadhunting together like that has
always been a really specialmemory. And then one other
memory was one of our friends isa a Navy SEAL. You know, he's
been a Navy SEAL for over twentyyears, about as decorated as you
(38:32):
can be.
And but about, I don't know,maybe ten years ago, he, had a
kid, about 10 years old, and hewas like, you know, he's just
wearing me out. He's killed likea wood duck, but he's just
obsessed with wanting to kill amallard. He's never killed one.
It's like a dream if it is tokill a mallard. And at the end
that year, you know, it was agreat duck hunting.
We were seeing a lot ofmallards. And so was like, look,
(38:52):
that's no problem. We'll go out,you know, come over here this
weekend and and we'll do andwe'll get it done. And so we're
setting up the decoys, you know,the first light, you know, told
his son, I said, come out here,you know, we're staying kinda
out there outside the blind,closer to the decoys, right at
the first light, you know,watching ducks come in before
shooting hours, and, you know,he's just, you know, head
spinning. And, anyway, the rightafter shooting light, the first
(39:15):
green hair that came in decoys,you know, were standing out
there and he shot it.
My old Jake went out there andpicked it up and brought it
back, and sure enough, it had aband on it. So that was his
first mallard ever was a bandedgreenhead, so I That always like
to tell that was a pretty coolcool deal to do that, and then
get get back to our friend who'sspent so many years in the
service and, you know, helpinghim out get his first mallard.
Chris Jennings (39:37):
Yeah. That's perfect. I don't think you could
have set that up any better. Imean, you couldn't script that
You know, banded duck on thefirst one. That's, like, that's
so cool.
And and that kinda brings it allfull circle right there with,
you know, your guys' passionfor, you know, the habitat,
really. It's and it's not justthe habitat as we discussed.
It's everything to do with thehabitat, the ducks, deer,
(39:58):
turkeys, you know, all thewildlife. And and that kinda
leads me to, you know, one of mylast questions here. Just when
you guys were looking for, let'syou know, a partner in
conservation, you know, whatwhat made you guys kinda
gravitate towards DucksUnlimited?
Neil Hayes (40:11):
Well, I think Ducks Unlimited, more so than a lot of
other organizations, it's kindof one of those things that is,
you know, there's always beenthis struggle in the whitetail
world for somebody to kind ofcrack the code of making
everybody feel like they have tobe part of an organization. It's
never really worked out. But youI mean, what someone does
similar with turkeys, eventhough National Wild Turkey
Federation has done an amazingjob of building the community
(40:33):
and they do a lot of great work.How someone treats their turkey
habitat in Michigan is not evergonna affect the turkey
population in West Point,Mississippi, and same with deer.
What somebody does in Illinoisis never gonna have an effect on
what we're doing down here,barring some crazy kind of
events that happens.
(40:53):
But with waterfowl, you can't doit on your own. And without the
the help of someone like DucksUnlimited taking care of of all
these really daunting problemsthat there's no way little
hunting communities can solve ontheir own, there's just there's
just no possible way that wewould all survive or that we
would know that somebody islooking after the the critters
and and waterfowl all over NorthAmerica are in good hands no
(41:16):
matter what point of themigration they're on. If it's
habitat down here for peoplethat only stay in when they're
hunting or if it's habitat fromstopover areas or or parts of
the country that people nevertravel. And it it's just it's
more essential with waterfowl, Ifeel like, than just about
anything else to make sure thatpeople like you guys are taking
care of everything for us sothat the ducks are gonna show
(41:37):
back
Daniel Hayes (41:37):
up next year. And we
Neil Hayes (41:38):
know that when the duck season closes, waiting
until next November to come,that y'all are working with all
the best biologists in thecountry, and working with all
the best local landowners andfarmers and whoever else taking
care of all these projects thatare completely essential to
making sure that the resourcesare around for another hundred
years.
Chris Jennings (41:55):
Awesome, man. No. That's perfect. And I know
here at Ducks Unlimited, weappreciate Mossy Oak's
partnership. You know, it it itjust seems to be such a natural
fit, and and you guys are agreat partner.
Even with things like thiscoming on the podcast, kinda
sharing your story, it it'sreally cool for our audience to
hear your guys' personalstories. And one last question
(42:16):
before I get you out of here.Who's a better shot between you
two? Oh, it got it got quietreal quick.
Neil Hayes (42:25):
I'll I'll answer this so Neil doesn't sound like
he's dragging, but Neil Neil isNeil's better at a lot of things
than me. I feel like I have totry a little harder that the,
you know, my my dad and mygranddad both have you know, I
think they're woodsman on thelevel that that Daniel Bruin or
some old frontiersman wouldappreciate. They've got this
level of woodmanship that'sunbelievable, and you really see
(42:46):
it when you're turkey huntingmore than anything. But Neil
Neil has a lot of that in him,and I've got a lot of get lost
in the woods walking to the treein me. And I think I guess that
translates to Neil being abetter shot too because I can
I've got no problem admittingthat one.
Daniel Hayes (43:00):
There's there's been plenty of days where
Daniel's outshot me. So, yeah,it just depends on the day, I
think.
Chris Jennings (43:06):
That's awesome. That's that's cool.
Neil Hayes (43:08):
That was a
Chris Jennings (43:08):
that was a good way to answer. You guys are both
so nice to each other. It'sawesome. Being being kind, not
not cribbing the
Daniel Hayes (43:14):
Once the phone call ends once the phone call
ends, I'm sure we'll we'll getinto an argument about who's the
better shot.
Chris Jennings (43:19):
Perfect. That's all I was trying to do is just
start an argument between youguys. Man, guys, this has been
great. You know, I reallyenjoyed hearing your guys'
story, hearing the, know, MossyOak story. I appreciate you
coming on, and you know what?
We're gonna have to try and getyou guys back on again,
especially once season kicks on,you know, maybe or the season
kicks in. What we could do isbring you on to kinda do a
(43:40):
little bit of a maybe amigration type update from your
area down there to kinda seewhat you guys are seeing. We
still have, what, like a monthor so till season kicks in
there.
Daniel Hayes (43:49):
So Yeah. We're we're already starting to see
some it's not even November yet.We're already starting to see
big ducks flying around and andusing some of the water that we
have. Most of our stuff is isdry, but some of the sloughs and
stuff, there's already ducksaround.
Chris Jennings (44:00):
That's exciting. That's a way to get excited
about it.
Daniel Hayes (44:04):
Yeah. Just it's hard to watch them for a whole
month knowing you can't go doanything about it. But, yeah, I
mean, it is fun watching them,and then that dad says all the
time, you know, he spends allhis energy creating his
waterfowl habitat, and he lovesto shoot ducks more that just as
much as the next person, butmore than that, he loves
watching ducks. You know? He'lljust go out and just watch ducks
for hours and just watch themflying in and big groups coming
(44:25):
into the ponds and and just, youknow, he just he loves being
able to just sit and watch them,and so that's one of his
favorite things.
And so I've always thoughtthat's pretty cool.
Neil Hayes (44:33):
He is he did definitely his obsession comes
out if you ever get there'sthere's some mornings where he's
paranoid that we don't have anyducks anywhere, and, you know,
we go to the one spot where heknows we have ducks, and legal
shooting time gets here, and hewon't let anybody in the blind
shoot, and he just wants towatch the ducks fly. Because
it's it's it's so paranoid thatthe the ducks are gonna leave or
that we're gonna, you know, forshort term, ten, fifteen minutes
(44:55):
right at shooting light, killinga bunch of ducks is is gonna
gonna harm the rest of theseason or whatever. There there
are plenty of mornings where hejust gets out there and watches
ducks, and me and Niller kind ofelbowing him in the ribs. And he
yeah. I mean, he he's like a kidin a candy store.
If he's got ducks and he'swatching him fly, you just see
the little twinkle in his eye.He's got you know, there's that
little there's like a, I think,a natural wonder that
(45:17):
everybody's born with that youhave when you're a kid, when
you're walking around the woodsand everything's new. And the
world kinda, you know,conditioned people to leave that
behind as they grew up, but dadnever lost that. And whether
it's turkeys, deer, ducks, oreven walking around with my
grandmother seeing all thewildflowers that are growing on
our property, I mean, everyaspect of the land and the and
(45:38):
the critters he's just obsessedwith.
Chris Jennings (45:39):
That's awesome. No. That's perfect. Hey, guys. I
appreciate you coming on.
Well, like I said, we're gonnahave to do it again here soon,
and, yeah, thanks a lot.
Daniel Hayes (45:47):
Yeah. We'd love to come back, and we appreciate you
having us, and look forward totalking ducks in the future.
Chris Jennings (45:52):
I'd like to thank my guests, Daniel and Neil
Hayes from Mossy Oak for joiningme today and talking about the
history of Mossy Oak and alittle bit about their own duck
hunting, which was awesome. I'dlike to thank our producer,
Chris Isaac, for putting theshow together and getting it out
to you, and I'd like to thankyou, the listener, for joining
us on the DU podcast andsupporting Welland's
Conservation.
VO (46:12):
Thank you for listening to the DU podcast sponsored by
Purina Pro Plan, the officialperformance dog food of Ducks
Unlimited. Purina Pro Plan,always advancing. Also proudly
sponsored by Bird Dog Whiskeyand Cocktails. Whether you're
winding down with your bestfriend or celebrating with your
favorite crew, Bird Dog bringsaward winning flavor to every
moment. Enjoy responsibly.
(46:34):
Be sure to rate, review, andsubscribe to the show and visit
ducks.org/dupodcast. Opinionsexpressed by guests do not
necessarily reflect those ofDucks Unlimited. Until next
time, stay tuned to the Ducks.
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