June 2, 2025 • 61 mins
Ever wondered how firefighters can build wealth despite their demanding schedules? Mike Lowerey, a heavy equipment operator for Milwaukee Fire Department, reveals exactly how he acquired six rental properties in just six months while working one of the busiest trucks in the city.
Mike's journey began with an eighth-grade teacher who sparked his interest in finance and compound interest, leading to a finance degree before joining Milwaukee Fire in 2010. After seven years on the job, Mike leveraged his intimate knowledge of Milwaukee neighborhoods to identify promising investment opportunities in 2017 – just before the market took off and attracted outside investors.
The conversation delves into the practical mechanics of property acquisition and management that rarely get discussed in typical real estate content. Mike shares a remarkable early deal: a single-family home purchased for just $35,000 that rented for $900 monthly after minimal renovations. He explains how he used seller financing to acquire a duplex with $10,000 down that later sold for $165,000 – pocketing over $70,000 in profit.
What makes this episode particularly valuable for first responders is Mike's candid discussion of property management systems and tenant screening processes. He emphasizes treating real estate as a business rather than a hobby, establishing clear boundaries with tenants, and developing systematic approaches to maintenance issues. His advice on using separate phone lines for tenants and setting business hours provides practical solutions for managing properties while working 24-hour shifts.
Mike also addresses the challenges of real estate partnerships, explaining why he ultimately sold most of his portfolio during COVID despite strong appreciation. The conversation concludes with his current focus on vacation rentals in Northern Wisconsin and advice for first responders looking to get started in real estate.
Whether you're a first responder curious about real estate or an existing investor looking to refine your systems, this conversation provides honest, practical guidance from someone who's successfully balanced public service with wealth-building through careful property investment. Ready to take the first step in your own real estate journey? This episode gives you the roadmap to get started.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey guys, welcome back to First Responder
Financial Freedom.
Today I got Tyler, myself andour buddy from Milwaukee Fire,
mike Lowry, who's doing a littlebit of real estate, and he's
going to share his journey abouthow he got into that space
while working the job.
So, mike, thanks for hopping onthe show and, if you don't mind
, just give everybody the twominute version or story of who
(00:25):
you are, where you came from,what you're doing, and we'll
take it from there.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah, guys, thank you for having me on the show.
So my journey started in highschool.
I'm originally from the UpperPeninsula of Michigan.
I got involved in, or heardabout, investing more so with
stocks, bonds, mutual funds ineighth grade about investing
more so with stocks, bonds,mutual funds In eighth grade
didn't really hear about realestate until a little bit later,
(00:49):
until my early 20s Graduatedwith a finance degree from
Michigan Tech and I started withMilwaukee Fire in 2010.
That journey was a littleinteresting.
I was a volunteer firefighterbefore that and realized that
working full-time for a firedepartment was more of a dream
(01:11):
of mine than working in a banksitting behind a desk in a
cubicle.
I wanted a big city firedepartment.
At the time, detroit wasn'thiring, so I applied for Flint,
michigan, grand Rapids, michiganand Milwaukee, and I wound up
being in the second class off ofthe 2008 list.
(01:32):
So I began the academy in 2010.
And, long story short, havebeen there ever since.
I did have a stint for twoyears where I was down in
Baytown, texas, which is asuburb of Houston, also as a
firefighter.
My current position is heavyequipment operator Some people
call them chauffeurs, butbasically driver and then I
(01:55):
drive truck nine, which issecond busiest truck in the city
.
We take probably about 105,000,110,000 calls a year citywide.
We've got I think now we've got29 or 30 stations open.
It's they've decommissionedsome units and brought some
units back.
So as I first transferred tothis firehouse, it houses engine
(02:21):
32, truck 9.
They had decommissioned.
It houses engine 32, truck 9.
They had decommissioned the rigjust south of us, engine 28.
So I believe it was 2022 or2021.
But for the whole station widewe took like about 95 miles that
year.
So it was averaging in betweenlike 15 and 20.
(02:43):
And the truck was averaginglike 12 to 15.
So in the mix, to say the least.
So it's been fun.
I've kind of been in that areaof Milwaukee where a lot of the
stuff happens for about the pastfive, six years now, so I'm
pretty solidified there.
(03:03):
As far as real estate goes, Ihere in Milwaukee being a
firefighter.
Obviously you get to know theneighborhoods very well.
You run down one block 10 times.
(03:24):
You know in a month, month andyou don't see the next block
ever in three years of beingassigned to that location.
Others in the milwaukee marketin 18.
(03:49):
That was a time where I feellike the milwaukee market really
kind of like took off.
People you know it was.
It was popping up on yahoo, um,finance, um, it was just
popping up everywhere.
Everyone seemed to be hearingabout Milwaukee, and so we had a
(04:11):
lot of out-of-state investors,a lot of foreign investors,
coming in, which made the marketcurrently pretty competitive.
But back in 2017 2017 you couldfind deals that easily met the
two percent rule very at thetime.
Uh, for instance, I'll justgive you a one of one of our
(04:33):
deals that we did right away um,we had bought a two bedroom,
one bath, uh, ranch home had abasement.
All we had to do was was paintand refinish the hardwood floors
.
We got into that, I think, for$35,000 all in, and we were able
to rent it out for like $900 amonth.
So that's kind of like what wewere looking at there.
(04:56):
With that, we were able topurchase like six units pretty
much in like six months it was,and we had a partner out in
vegas and uh, so we were kind of50 50, my brother and I and
then our partner in vegas and,um, as we started going with
that, we um just yeah, that'skind of where, where we started,
(05:22):
um, we've sold off pretty muchthe whole portfolio.
It's interesting working withpartners.
Sometimes when you start youguys have all a direct line as
to where you want to go and howyou want to grow, and then
obviously things can change.
So now I'm working a little bitmore just on not necessarily
(05:45):
partnerships anymore, but I gotmy real estate license in
October.
So I'm working kind of bothends of the real estate and also
trying to work and I have yetto get my first syndication deal
(06:05):
, but still working on it.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
And obviously you know you keep pushing forward.
Okay, so there was and we'lltry and fix some of those pauses
because it was lagging a littlebit there, but okay, so let's
back this up a hair.
So you went to college, startedout as a volunteer.
You went to college, got adegree in finance, got hired by
the city of Milwaukee in 2010.
(06:32):
When did you buy your firstreal estate deal?
I think you said you gotinterested in finances in eighth
grade.
Like what are you the WarrenBuffett from Michigan?
My son's almost there and Ihave to remind him to breathe,
let alone buy.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, no, I just had a teacher, mr Downs, and he just
he gave an example of how youknow if you, if you just I don't
even know what it was at thetime If you invested 25 bucks a
week or something, you could bea millionaire by the time you
were you know 30 or whatever.
Whatever it was, you know whatI mean and so I was just always
interested with that compoundinginterest.
(07:08):
So that's kind of what pushedme towards the stock market and
into finance in general.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
So did you have real estate we'll call it investments
prior to getting on the job.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Nope, I uh, I was on the job, uh, before I had any,
uh, real estate.
So the first house that I everbought was a single family house
with my ex-wife in 2012.
Um, and then the firstinvestment property that I
bought was in 2017.
So, uh, basically from Novemberof 2017 to May of 2018, we
(07:47):
bought a duplex on land contractand then we bought what was it?
Three or three single familyunits.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
You got into real estate while you were on the job
, but your goal was to buy.
From what I'm hearing was tobuy cash flow real estate.
Right, you weren't necessarilyflipping per se, or I know you
mentioned syndicating now, butit sounds like when you got
started in it it was cash flowproperties is that correct.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah, so we bought in um.
You know, I would say I wouldconsider them like class c
neighborhoods, um, but again,with the background in
firefighting I knew the littlepockets within the neighborhoods
.
Um, there's been documentarieson it and stuff like that.
Uh, 53206 is like the mostincarcerated zip code in like
(08:35):
the entire country.
Uh, there's not even a grocerystore in that zip code here in
milwaukee, um, so it's, it's avery interesting, very diverse,
very segregated still.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I would not call that a C-class neighborhood then.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
No, I'm saying I was not investing in those, but yeah
, that would be considered.
I would think maybe even a warzone.
So just to give you an idea,that is like the D, so I was
just a step above that.
In neighborhoods where peoplegrew up, they still wanted to
live.
I've never done like sectioneight or anything like that.
(09:12):
So all my tenants you know wereare employed and stuff like
that.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So yeah, Employment's not a protected class.
So that's sweet, what.
What is and I always joke iswhenever I first started getting
into real estate, the guys atthe firehouse called me slumlord
, and some still throw thataround.
And I think because a lot oftimes the properties not always,
(09:40):
but a lot of the times, theones that were in and out of,
like you said, 10 times a week,are those D class, slumlord type
clientele, right, but there'splenty of rental properties in
our area.
I'm sure of it that we've neverstepped foot in and probably
won't for a long time.
(10:01):
And you know the C classproperties, at least from where
I got started, those were likethe bread and butter, like
because you could buy.
We'll call it a C-plus, right,it was nice, probably a little
dated here and there, but thatguy worked, you know, a steady
job at a factory, driving atruck, like he was trying to
(10:23):
provide the wife or significantother.
She had a job, they probablyhad a kid or two.
They were just the good average, and I use this not in any sort
of derogatory way.
They were just the good average, hardworking people that were
going to work 40 years and dietype thing.
They unfortunately wereprobably never going to get out
(10:43):
of that cycle if you will.
But they were good people, theytook care of their stuff and
oftentimes they come from just afamily and history of renters.
Like they don't even thinkhomeownership is a possibility.
Then you go to the people thatthey don't even have a grocery
store in their neighborhood.
They know, they know alifestyle Also, it's stealing,
drugs et cetera.
(11:04):
Like you don't want to investin that neighborhood.
But then you go to the otherside.
You got the class a stuff.
Oh man, we lost our guest.
I must have.
I must have said something.
Um.
So then you go to the a a classproperties.
Well, there's no margin reallyto be made, especially with guys
like us.
You know that's more for likewealth preservation, the
(11:26):
syndication guys.
But like the guys like us,we're just trying to get in that
like sweet spot where you don'twant to have to carry the ar to
the property to collect rentbut you know it doesn't have a
marble entrance into theclubhouse either in the
community.
So like you kind of need thatsweet spot of uh in that market,
so can you walk us through theprice.
And so like you kind of needthat sweet spot of in that
market.
So can you walk us through theprice?
(11:46):
And I know you said it was aex-wife, so I'm assuming the
dust has settled there.
But could you just kind of giveus the?
How did you get into that firstproperty?
What did it look like?
How did you find it, fund it?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, so so the the first property with the ex that
was, that was I was just kind ofgiven the narrative of like,
that was the first property I'dever purchased was in 2012.
Um, as far as you know, thatwas, that was just a personal
residence.
Um, my first investmentproperty actually was a retiring
landlord.
Um, complex, or to our finance,so we got in you're all
(12:37):
reenacted for everybodylistening.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Mike got into this property with seller finance and
then he apparently got veryscared.
Based on this space, I don'tknow what's going on.
How are you on mute bud?
Speaker 3 (12:53):
what do you want to do?
Try to, because it's frozencompletely again.
Yeah, there you go.
No, you there, mike uh-oh EETphone home.
(13:15):
We can see you Now.
You're working.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Okay, okay, cause I was like I can, I was hearing my
like myself, but I couldn't seeyou guys.
But anyways, uh, 8,000 duplex,uh, so we put 10,000 down, we
put about another 15 grand intoit, uh, and then we were renting
(13:38):
each one of those units out for750 a month, so 1500 a month.
We were taking in.
We had an amortized over 30years on a five-year balloon, so
I believe we were paying theprevious owner about five, 600
bucks a month and then,essentially, you know cash
flowing.
The rest, we actually wound upselling that at the five year
mark and we sold it for, Ibelieve, 160 or 165.
(14:03):
And the crazy thing is is wegave the, we gave the lady who
we bought it from a check Ibelieve was for like 71 grand to
pay off the land contract, andthen we cashed a check of like
73 grand.
So that was, you know, kind ofkind of and and cool as, as a
(14:24):
first deal, a success.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
So, yeah, we'll call that not necessarily typical.
Yeah, let's rewind that, causeI always like to and I know I
say this pretty much with allthe episodes but I kind of like
to think about the person that'slistening to this in their
cruiser in the end, or whatnot,or in their drive home, and
they're like, how do I get thatfirst one?
It's real easy to sit here andtalk about some of these things,
(14:50):
but it's like, ok, youmentioned seller finance, land
contract, all these things.
But it's like, okay, youmentioned seller finance, land
contract, all these things thatare just phenomenal.
How did you find this deal?
Was this on the mls or was thisoff market?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
um, you know it, I somehow I got connected with her
son, who was a realtor, and Idon't, for the life of me I
can't remember.
Um, okay, either way, you, youthrew something out For the life
of me I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Okay, either way, you threw something out, dude, do
you see that?
So Tyler just messaged you.
He goes is your finger?
Okay?
Sa is still high.
Yeah, so I wear a metal weddingring and I was working out at
the gym and I don't even know.
I went to go do pull-ups and Ilooked at it it, and I said to
(15:34):
my wife I'm like what happened?
So, yeah, I took it off, it'sfine, it looks gnarly.
Yeah, I could get a tattoo.
But all right, sorry, squirrel,what was I saying You're?
asking about you basically putit out there at some point that
you're looking to buy a propertyand I can assure you that all
(15:56):
of this information is great,but without any action, none of
it matters, right?
And if you sit there and justnow, with social media and the
way it is, like I've boughtnumerous deals just off of
posting on social media I've hadnumerous people offer to you,
know, lend us money off ofsocial media.
(16:16):
So you can literally and I saythis like you can use social
media to like be a producer, notjust a consumer.
So, like you could sit there,how you could get started today
is like, hey, I'm looking to buymy first rental property.
If anybody know is looking tosell, let me know.
Okay, is it kind of like a?
(16:38):
It's a little bit of fishingLike you probably aren't going
to get a deal right out the gate, but if you're consistent with
it, like, hey, I'm walking thisproperty today, I'm doing this,
I'm doing that Pretty soon.
The brother that works over atyou know, engine 44 knows that
you're doing this and theirbrother's retiring landlord.
It may never work out, but itmight, and all it takes is one
(17:00):
or two of those connections ordegrees of separation.
Now, your community is helpingyou know, achieve what you're
looking to do, so so how did youfinance it, though?
Because you said land contractand seller finance, like those
are things that get tossedaround, and you know I've used
both of them and they're great,but like what exactly does that
(17:20):
mean to the guy that's lookingto say, like, hey, I got 10
grand, but like, then what?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, so I mean to be honest, like you said, you put
yourself out there.
The biggest thing is, in myopinion, is making connections.
So, like you said, tell peoplethat you're interested in buying
real estate and then I don'tthink there's ever been anyone
that I've ever talked to aboutany deal, uh, whether I was
interested in it or not, that Ihaven't asked if they would be
(17:47):
willing to sell or finance,because, because obviously
that's just the easiest way togo right, um, and then, and then
you have the ability to, froman investment standpoint, from
an investor standpoint, tostructure it in a way that kind
of benefits you, if you know, if, if they go for that, um, but
yeah, I mean, so we wound upgetting the capital.
(18:10):
So my brother and I wound upgetting capital.
Actually, our sister had cancerand she wasn't passing away and
so we wound up leaving some, orshe left some money from us um
or to us, um, so we we had about44 grand and, uh, through
bigger pockets, um, I'm suremost people have heard of that
by now, but bigger pockets waspretty in its infancy back in
(18:32):
2015, 2016.
But through BiggerPockets, wehad met John, who we partnered
with, and John is originallyfrom Wisconsin but lives out in
Vegas, and so we pooled ourmoney together.
We basically had $88,000.
And we just said, hey, how canwe go out and get properties?
(18:56):
So I started with Facebook, Istarted getting into REI groups,
meeting people, talking torealtors who are also investors,
so on and so forth, andeventually a lot of people talk
(19:16):
about that synergistic effect,like, hey, once you close that
first deal, the next deals willwill come subsequently.
And, honestly, like that's howit was for us.
I mean, we closed that firstdeal in November and, like I
said, by May we we had fiveunits and I was really into the
thick of it.
You know managing theproperties my brother doesn't
live in Milwaukee, he lives inMichigan.
(19:36):
And obviously John, our partner, he lives out in Vegas.
So you know, I was buildingsystems, figuring out how to you
know manage tenants, how toscreen them.
You know what needed to be doneto you know get the highest
rents, like that.
But as far as you know, justjust being into it, I mean like,
like you said, you just youjust have to put it out there.
(19:57):
I think, like anything else,right, like you, just you just
have to put it out there.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
And yeah, you literally and I look at this way
the only people that are gonnaon that idea or the guy's not
doing anything, and you justhave to be willing to know that,
accept it and realize youwouldn't ask them for financial
advice.
So don't like listen to any ofthe hate either.
I mean, I'm not saying itdoesn't bug you at some point,
(20:22):
especially early on, but onceyou start getting some traction,
man that's, you can't even hearthat noise, right?
So you kind of touched onsomething that's near and dear
to my heart.
Right now is operating at thesystems, and before we get to
(20:42):
that, I just want to.
You mentioned the 2% rule.
So anybody that's not familiarcould you just kind of like
briefly describe the 1% or 2%rule and how you were evaluating
these deals to see if they madesense?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
yeah.
So basically, um, okay, so ifyou buy a property for a hundred
thousand dollars, then roughlyyou'd want, uh, two percent of
that in monthly rent.
Um, so in milwaukee we wereable to, like I said, we were
getting fifteen hundred dollars,um, on an eighty88,000 property
.
We had roughly a little over ahundred thousand into it, so
(21:20):
that was like a 1.5%.
Another property we hadpurchased for, like I said, I
think all in we were 30 grand.
So we were renting that out for900 a month.
We were renting that out for900 a month.
So obviously that was a 3% rulein that case.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Was that a lower class area?
Was that getting close to thatD area?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
No, that was actually all.
The properties that I'mreferring to were, I would say,
within like two miles of eachother.
All I would say C neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, it's easy to look back now, but there's a lot
of properties I passed on thatwould have meant that like one
to one and a half percent rolethat I'm like no, no, no, and
now I'm like geez, if I wouldhave bought those Right.
But you know, again lookingback, it looks a lot better from
this vantage point than at thetime Um, because I was working
(22:12):
off the 2% rule also.
And that then leads me into thenext thing is like you're
sitting there looking at thesethings based off what they're
either currently producing orthe pro forma, so to speak.
But once you get in there andyou just mentioned systems and
operating and this is what I wassaying is near and dear to my
heart right now is becausefinding the deal at first that's
(22:36):
like the first mountain andthen the second mountain is
actually operating the deal.
And whether it's a your firstrental property or what I'm
dealing with right now is astorage facility that we bought
that has a I say big, but it'snot comparatively speaking but
like a lot of parking, outdoorparking.
So the operation side of thisdeal, finding it was one thing,
(22:57):
but now like operating it andoperating it efficiently and
undoing the years of just messis a whole different thing.
So what kind of systems andprocedures did you set up or
have you been utilizing and Idon't know if you're still
self-managing.
I know you mentioned you soldsome of your stuff, but the guy
(23:18):
that gets his first rental fiverentals, whatever it is what are
some systems that you'reutilizing or did utilize to help
make that manageable,considering you were the boots
on the ground, so to speak, andthis guy's in Michigan, this
guy's in Wisconsin or Vegas,whatever, what was?
What did that look like?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, so having it.
So first things first, ifyou're going to manage your
properties, you have to treat itlike a business.
I think we see a lot of peoplethey say, hey, I'm going to, I'm
going to get into real estate,and then what they do is they're
just like oh, I'm going to rentto my buddies and oh, well, you
know, my mom's friend is havingtrouble paying rent, but you
(24:00):
know, I didn't sign a lease withher because she's my mom's
friend and to me you just, youjust can't do that.
Like you're not running it likea business, you're running it
like a hobby.
Like you know, my hobbies areplaying hockey and golf and
going out for runs.
So if I half-ass those things,that's not that big of a deal,
right, because it's a hobby.
But when you start half-assingreal estate, in my opinion.
(24:23):
So first advice that I get foroperating is you really got to
treat it like a business.
With that being said, I keepspreadsheets, like just in
Google sheets, um, so everymonth tracking, tracking your
income and expenses, um, andthen you have to manage that.
(24:44):
So that first property that webought, duplex I learned very
quickly that when you so, therewas always some like snow
removal, lawn care, who gets topark in the garage, who has to
park on the street there'salways some mix of things that
was happening, um.
So that's kind of why wefocused on single family.
(25:07):
After that, then you usuallyget a couple or a single parent
with with children and this andthat, and there's there's not so
much of the the nitpickingstuff, um.
But I, as far as operating andmanaging, I believe if you treat
your tenants how you want to betreated, then you're good to go
(25:28):
.
When you coming, coming frombeing a firefighter and public
service to, you're in thatsituation where you're running
calls and you have to showcompassion, um, you have to care
for that person.
So if you kind of take thatinto how you're operating, I
(25:51):
think people respect you.
So, for instance, you know Ihave we all have, you know
electricians, plumbers, you knowwhatever you need, right.
So you get a call in themorning saying, hey, I didn't, I
didn't have any hot water.
When I try to take a showerbefore work, I made sure that
there was a new hot water heaterinstalled.
It wasn't just like, well, hey,go.
(26:15):
I wasn't telling my plumber hey, just go, put a band-aid on it.
No, just give them a new hotwater heater.
It's gonna cost you know, atthe time it was you know a
thousand bucks or something toinstall it and and you know, and
then all of a sudden the tenantcomes home that evening and
they got a new water heater andyou know they, they think you're
awesome for it.
I actually had a tenant leavethe duplex.
She moved into one of the singlefamilies that we bought and
(26:36):
then she moved out of the singlefamily and to this day, like
every six months, she calls meand asks if I have any vacancies
, because she just appreciatedhow I was treating her and the
types of things that I did as alandlord.
So, ultimately, if you treat itlike a business, a landlord so
ultimately, if you treat it likea business or your family,
(26:59):
that's, in my opinion, the youknow going deeper into that.
You know, if you know areliable electrician, if you
know a reliable plumber, if youknow a reliable email, things
will take you a long way.
So you can.
What I always do is I alwaysjust basically send those
(27:22):
contractors right to the tenant,and they even have a
relationship with that tenantthen too, and that leaves a lot
of headache off of my plate too.
Um, and for all the people outthere who think that you're
going to get the phone call at 2am for the clogged toilet, like
I've never had that happen.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Um, my tenants also, you know, like the fire when
you're at work you got to dealwith that but not at home for
your own property.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Well, and like I think too, like the way you
train your tenants too, like ifyou, just if you kind of say,
hey, just like you go to workfrom nine to five, my business
hours are, you know, nine tofive.
If it's an emergency, thenobviously you know you can get a
hold of me.
Um, but then another thing I'vedone and I've I've kept it like
this this is probably beengoing on about five years is, uh
(28:17):
, keeping my phone on do notdisturb, and only like answering
when I need to.
Um, because obviously you gotgroup chats with your buddies,
you got your wife texting you.
Now all of a sudden thetenant's texting you and I just
felt like I was constantly on myphone and I can say, even with
that advice, I've never missedout on a deal, I've never had
(28:39):
some catastrophic issue that'shappened.
I think people want yourattention and nowadays, you know
I think people want yourattention and nowadays
everyone's so in tune to like,oh, if I send him a text he's
going to respond right away, butat the end of the day, like you
really don't need to, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
So now I would say, pro tip, set up a different
phone number for your tenants tohave.
Don't give them your personalcell phone number.
One of my tenants granted,they've been with me like 10
years.
At this point they still haveit, but that was the last person
, except for when we bought astorage facility the previous
owner because I had beencommunicating with him for so
long.
Whenever it was time totransition, he gave all of the
(29:24):
you know 100 plus people mypersonal cell phone number.
So that was awesome.
So I would just encourage you to, like you know, be accessible
during, like you said, businesshours and exactly, set up that.
Do not disturb, and I can't sayanything better than yep, it's
how you train them, that's withlate fees, that's with
(29:45):
everything, and I don't care howyou want to sell it to them.
Just say like listen, I knowyou, you deal with me, but like
I have a boss, you could use theguy in Vegas, whatever you be.
Like hey, my boss, he, I reallywanted to waive your late fee
Cause I I think you're awesome,but like I'm sorry, like it's
not my call, like you, make himthat guy Right, if you want to,
(30:07):
or you can just be like, listen,no like no and that and that's
like.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Whenever people reached out to me, I was the
property manager and I alwaystold them I had to talk to the
owner even though I knew in mymind the decision was already
made.
But cause I was the owner, butthen I just I said, well, no,
sorry, this is what the ownerswanted and I'm just the property
manager.
So it was kind of like don'tshoot the messenger type thing,
(30:31):
but at the same time I was alsothe one that was getting the
stuff done that they wanted toget done.
So they respected me for thatand I think I used what is it?
Google phone or Google call orwhatever?
Yeah, google voice.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I don't even know if they still have that anymore,
but there's a bunch of differentproviders out there for that
kind of stuff.
How, how were you evaluatingwhat made a quality application?
Cause I presume you were doingthe the applications and the
underwriting of the tenant andthere's so many different
platforms out there now that, tobe fair, like I couldn't even
(31:10):
speak to them.
That great, because I've beenusing a property management
company which we could also talkabout how you have to manage
them for the last several years.
But, like when I first gotstarted everything, like I was
still doing paper applicationsand like I'm doing open house
and you could apply there.
Now it's like I send you thelink and you can actually tell a
(31:32):
lot, I think, about how good ofa tenant they're going to be to
some extent with if you sendthem.
When somebody reaches out, Iimmediately would send them like
almost like an assignment.
Like here go here, fill thisout Once I have your information
, I your application.
Go here, fill this out Once Ihave your information, ie your
application, we'll get itstarted.
So then it puts the workloadback on them right away and it
(31:54):
weeds out people right from theget-go about who can follow
instructions, so on and so forth, and if they can do that, they
follow the steps that you layout for them.
They pay online, you know.
So we've established theirresponse of they can follow
directions, oh, and they knowhow to use some sort of
technology, which, again, payingonline now is a lot more common
(32:17):
than it was even just 10 yearsago, right?
So if they can't even figurethat out, I don't want to mess
with it, because I'm not meetingup to collect a check.
I don't even mail it, all thiscrap.
I just want you to set it up atthe beginning of the lease,
like we use apartmentscom still.
Like boom, I get a notification, it's coming in.
If you can't figure that out, Ialready know you're probably
(32:39):
going to be a headache when itcomes to rent collection, you
know yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, the.
So the one thing open housethat was my first kind of
mistake when I had my first unitthat I needed to rent out,
because you would get 15 peoplethat would hit you up right away
.
And then you'd show up forthese times and out of those 15
people, maybe two showed up ifyou were lucky.
(33:05):
15 people, maybe two showed upif you were lucky.
And so now you're just runningback and forth to this property
thinking that you've got peoplelined up and then you just
realize, okay, you know theywere full of crap.
So I started using I believe itwas Yahoo and Cozy.
I think I've used both of thosebefore and, like you said, you
say, okay, if you're interested,please fill out the application
(33:26):
here in wisconsin.
Uh, I think the max you cancharge is like 25 bucks, um, so
I think yahoo charged 40.
So if they filled out theapplication and they paid their
25, then I would cover the restto run um the background check
and then their credit report,stuff like that, and then what I
(33:48):
would do is to not discriminateequal housing, all that stuff
is.
Let's say, the first tenantcame in and they had, or the
first applicant came in, theydid all their homework but they
had an eviction, so basicallyany negative things on their
credit.
I would increase the securitydeposit.
(34:09):
So most of the time securitydeposit is one month's rent.
So let's just say rent's athousand bucks but you have an
eviction, so then I'm going tocharge you 2000 for your
security deposit plus a thousandfor that first month's rent.
So you have to come up withthree grand if you want to rent
my unit.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
So you do allow if they've had an eviction.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yep.
So I mean, and realistically,so what do you look at?
Evictions, credit score, income, stuff like that?
But what I found is when you dothat, the people are just like
no, and so it's like okay, well,then you move on to the next
one and then usually you knowyou would get someone.
So I've never actually rentedto someone that had an eviction,
(34:53):
because a lot of the times,let's face it, that that, but
that was also a way to to tomake it fair across the board.
Um yeah, Was it discriminating?
(35:14):
But then you're almost settingyourself up to get the tenants.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, no, I, I totally hear you.
That's I saw.
If it's an evict, if you havean eviction, I say in the last
10 years I won't rent, um, butwhat you're saying makes total
sense because you're right and alot of times they're not going
to be truthful.
But when you do the I thinkit's my smart movecom they run
the, the background check, thecredit check and all that stuff
(35:42):
and where it usually shows up,people are always like, oh, my
credit's not that good.
Like, okay, I get it um, um.
But when I look at the credit,if it's like you were late on a
car payment, you know yourvictoria's secret credit card is
, you know, 90 days, whatever, Itake all that into account.
But what I'm mainly looking foris judgments from property
(36:03):
management companies.
Like, if I see a judgment fromyou know something, something
property management, that'swhere it's.
See a judgment from you knowsomething, something property
management, that's where it'slike, oh, you told me you didn't
have an eviction, here's ajudgment, that's a problem.
Yeah, valities, kiddie peddlersand evictions are like my three
that I'm not a big fan of.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah.
So when my wife and I movedinto our current residence,
where I'm sitting right now, westill rent out our uh old
residence in a in theNorthwestern part of the city.
Uh, we live in the Southeasternpart of the city now, but, um,
we actually did, uh rent ourpersonal residence to a woman,
um who, uh, she actually likelost her home in foreclosure and
(36:46):
, um, she had a sister who wasalso a real estate investor.
Um, they both loved the house.
Uh, they came, they came withtheir mom, and so I said, okay,
well, it's going to be two timessecurity deposit plus first
month's rent and your sisterwill co-sign.
That's, that's the only way I'mgoing to lease to you.
And, uh, she actually, uh, wecame to agreement with that.
(37:08):
Her sister was cool withco-signing and I told her I mean
, I told her sister straight uplike, hey, you're in the game
too.
If your sister's not paying,I'm coming after you, you know?
And uh, she's like no, Itotally understand.
And she lived there for fiveyears, no issues.
Um, so that's that's.
The other thing, too is I thinkwe see in our field, people,
(37:30):
most people can I shouldn't saymost people, but people can be
successful after making amistake.
You know what I mean.
Like giving people secondchances necessarily isn't, you
know, the worst thing.
At the same token, right nowI'm dealing with two properties
that I sold about five years agoon land contract and that guy
(37:54):
was like we sold it to him 0%down, we were aggressive with
the interest rate, he was payingall the way up until this past
November and then come to findout, you know, now he's not
paying and so we're kind ofdealing with that, and then he
hasn't kept up the propertiesand so on and so forth.
So while one story is good, theother story might be bad, but
(38:20):
that's just part of the game too, you know.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah, and, to be fair , like I say no to that stuff.
But I look at the totality ofthe applicant because even
though I have a propertymanagement company, I still
review the application beforewe'll sign the lease and they
know what we like and don't like.
But it you said a foreclosure,so you don't know.
Like you mentioned, your sisterhad a health problem.
(38:45):
Stuff happens in life.
If they lose their house due tosome, we'll call it extenuating
circumstance.
I'm looking for the personthat's like they got the 480
credit score.
They're late on this.
They were evicted there.
They need to move right now.
Don't worry, I got the money, Ican move in next week.
I'm looking for the red flags.
I guess I should say the bigtakeaway is make sure you have a
(39:09):
system, you're following it andyou just take the emotion out
of it.
Um, I'm not saying at times youshouldn't, as tyler just said,
have your essay, not that kindof, say, my situational
awareness, I say, but, um, likethe, you need to have a system
to evaluate everything so thatyou can remove emotion.
And if you just solely go basedon your gut, I mean a lot of
(39:33):
times that's right, but at timesyou can, you know, get blinded
by some of it too.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
So anyways, I think, not to cut you off, but just for
your listeners too, I mean.
So taking emotions out of it ishuge.
You want to manage a propertyon emotion, and then the thing
too that I think is good for anewer investor to understand is
(40:02):
to manage that first propertyBecause, like you said, you're
now with a property managementcompany, but how do you know
what they're supposed to bedoing?
You've never managed yourproperty yourself, so I've never
had a property managementcompany.
But if I did have a propertymanagement company and they
weren't meeting all the criteriathat I was meeting, then I
(40:24):
would, you know, be able to firethem essentially and and find
someone else.
If you don't even know whatsystems you need to have in
place, then how are you going toknow if your property
management isn't takingadvantage of you?
So that would just be one thingthat I would advise you know,
treat it like a business,operate it.
(40:46):
You know, even for six monthsyou'll be able to figure out how
it should be done and then findsomeone that's going to do it
85% as well as you are, cause,let's face it, no property
management company is going todo it as good as you are,
because they're just not, theydon't have the investment in it,
so, but I do believe thatthat's that everyone that's
(41:10):
getting involved should at leasthave a good grasp of that,
because that can definitely takea chunk of your cashflow away.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
So yeah, and I think so.
You've mentioned a little bittoo that you divested a lot of
your portfolio recently, and I'mguessing, with partnerships and
things that change, it's ifyou're not equally yoked, things
are going to start to crack andthe partnership no longer works
.
So for me, I owned propertiesin the early 2000s with two of
(41:41):
my best friends.
We divested.
Luckily it wasn't a big deal,just our lives had changed.
We went from single three of usas single guys to we were all
married.
One of them started having kids, the other two were trying to
have kids, and it doesn't haveto be that, but anything.
When things start to change andthen the relationship becomes
unequally yoked, then it nolonger makes sense.
(42:03):
I'm curious did life justhappen?
Did things become unequallyyoked towards like, hey, let's
go ahead and divest so we canall kind of do what we need to
do?
Um, what, in your opinion?
What necessitated that change?
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, so it was a.
It was a good uh, I would sayit was a good mix of a lot of
different things.
So we so we had COVID and wehad uh so coming so dealing with
c neighborhood properties.
Um, we had tenants who weren'table to go to work because of
colvin and then, and then wewould wind up getting, like six
(42:40):
months from, from theneighborhood services or whoever
sent, like the COVID checkbecause they were able to verify
like hey, we, we couldn't go towork for this time.
So so there was that andobviously, like for me and my
family, like our lives didn'tchange, my, my wife is also on
(43:01):
the Milwaukee fire department Um, so we were going to work, we
were going to the grocery store,we were around sick people, um,
so it was very tough to wrap myhead around, like what is
exactly going on?
Like we're literally stuff shutdown, my tenants can't go, like
how long is this going to go on,right?
So so there was that, coupledwith the rising home prices, I
(43:26):
mean every property so purchasedfor 88, sold for 160, purchased
for 35, sold for 60, purchasedfor 35, sold for 100.
I mean that's kind of themargins we were looking at, and
(43:49):
so it was kind of, it was thosetwo things.
And then, like you said, it wasI'm the boots on the ground.
I'm quote unquote 100% of theoperating for which was we kept.
If we kept, uh, increasing ourportfolio, you know, if we kept
(44:14):
buying properties, I was finedoing that.
My brother and I we hadexhausted our capital in these
properties, so I was relying on,you know, um, our investor, uh,
john from ve, and you know hewas just not in the same, he
didn't have the same idea.
He was, he was starting to getmore into other investments and
(44:38):
and so on and so forth.
And so it was just one of thosethings where, collectively, I
was kind of like hey, guys, weshould go this route and keep
moving forward.
And you know, we had an LLC,maybe we could get some lending
because we've just doneeverything on cash.
You know, maybe we could takesome of these properties and get
a line of credit and then usethat line of credit for down,
(44:58):
you know, start to get a littlecreative with it, and it just I
just wasn't getting theenthusiasm, in a sense, that I
would have liked to, um, from mypartners.
So then it was kind of like,okay, well, I'm not, I just
don't want to sit stagnant andthen keep managing this stuff in
an uncertain time, you know,and and not really know, like,
(45:20):
what the next step is.
So, um, you know, we justdecided like, hey, maybe we
could, we should sell these.
And, um, you know, we justdecided like, hey, maybe we
should sell these.
And you know, we obviously, youknow, did very well with the
partnership, as a matter of fact, and I still have a
relationship with my brother, Istill have a relationship with
(45:42):
so both of their names are Johntoo, so I have a relationship
with both Johns, john too, so Ihave a relationship with both
Johns.
But, yeah, so it's not.
You know, maybe something wouldhappen down the road where you
know Vegas, john and I, you know, partner up again.
But as of right now, it's justkind of like I'm trying to
really find the focus on myself,the focus on myself.
(46:05):
Like I said, I still have theproperty that my wife purchased.
So she got on the job when shewas 18 years old, basically
bought a house when she was like20.
So that house we have rentedout right now, and then we
(46:26):
actually also went in, her and Iwith her parents on a property
up in Northern Wisconsin that weactually run as Airbnb up in
Monaco, so that's kind of ourlatest thing.
So, while I divested in onearea, I kind of, you know,
relocated to, you know stuffthat's a little bit more
personal and stuff that, likethe property up north.
(46:48):
You know we don't ever plan onselling that.
That's just going to besomething that the kids will be
able to have and somethingsomewhere for us to go to as
well, um, but that's a whole youknow different animal, which is
also exciting to be a hostversus being a landlord, um, to
different animals.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
There too 100% agree on that one.
Okay, well, so you basicallyjust shifted gears and it's one
of those things like you learnedthe skill sets of underwriting
deals, managing deals.
So, whether it is a rentalproperty that you had with other
investors or it's a portfolio,you're looking to now go out and
(47:27):
build more for yourself andyour wife, or whatnot like you
you know the metaphor like youlearn how to fish type thing.
So like, now you have that skillset, you can go out there and,
depending on what your goals are, um, you can kind of utilize
those.
Because I look at it this way,there's times I'm like man, I
(47:47):
wish I wouldn't have sold thisor this.
But you know like, if I thinkabout if I would have held a
couple of the properties I soldbefore COVID, if I would have
held them until after COVID dude, game changer, right, but you
don't know that, and I try tonot sit there and just look in
(48:08):
the rear view mirror type thing.
But they always say that'sclearer than the windshield,
which is super true.
And at the time they were doingrent moratoriums, like there was
a lot of unknown, and you knowlike, anyways, you don't know
what you don't know at the time.
So I wish I would have held on,but I sold them, rolled the
(48:30):
cash into some other stuff andit's just different.
You know like, so now I'mlending, so now we're doing this
, like it's just other stuff,but I try not to get too hung up
on it.
So, is your goal moving forward?
Do you think to move moretowards the hospitality space?
Basically Do the Airbnb model,or was that just like a one and
done?
Or is your goal to build up um,uh, you know, c class property
(48:56):
cashflow portfolio in Milwaukee?
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yeah, so that's kind of it's.
It's funny because I I say thatif you have limited funds, you
could make basically anythingwork, Like you could buy
anything and make it work.
I truly feel that the skillsthat you gain just from
operating real estate can go along way.
So right now, northernWisconsin, there's a need for
(49:23):
rental properties.
I actually had a 23 unit undercontract, um, and I could not
find financing.
I I tried locally up innorthern wisconsin, tried local
milwaukee, um, and no one,because it was a.
It was a town of 2500 people,um, but this, but this apartment
(49:45):
complex was 100% rented, withlike a list of 15 people that
were looking.
I had all the projections,everything presented to 15
different people.
I had to get private fundingall of this stuff and no one
wanted to touch it.
And I'm talking to people upthere and I know, because I have
(50:07):
an Airbnb 45 minutes from thistown, that a guy literally
stayed at my Airbnb because hewas trying to find his daughter
somewhere to rent, because shewas living with her grandma in a
55 plus community and she couldonly be there for like another
month, and so he had to go upthere and like literally scour
the newspaper, like drive around, you know, go up there and like
(50:29):
literally scour the newspaper,like drive around trying, you
know, and, and so I was justkind of floored by the fact that
I couldn't get that deal done,um and that, and that really
kind of kicked me down a coupleof rungs, so to speak, in the in
.
As far as syndication, um wasconcerned, um, and at that I
think it was, was it was about ayear before, that is, when we
had purchased the Airbnb, and Ipurchased that as an Airbnb, but
(50:53):
ultimately, like I said, that'skind of like a family retreat.
My in-laws, they go up thereonce in May and once in October.
It was kind of.
I told my wife that I reallylike that was probably the best
investment I've ever made, justbecause I know that her parents
always wanted a place on waterand now they have a place on
(51:15):
water, and so it's not like it'syeah, it's not like it's making
a ton of money but it's payingfor itself.
So, and then we're bringing thefamily.
Like, we're bringing our familyuh, my wife and the kids up
there at the end of August,right before school starts.
So it'll be cool to uh, yeah,take, take our kids fishing and,
(51:36):
you know, show them around.
They actually haven't been upthere.
We've owned it for a coupleyears now and just just the
summer.
So I mean we're already gettingbookings for summer of 2026, so
that's so.
That's just the way it goes.
So we don't take away frompotential income just to go out
there for the family until it'spaid off.
(51:57):
So we're going to go with that.
But as far as you know, movingforward, you know it's weird.
I've been looking at a bunch ofdifferent things.
The hospitality is interestingRight now I'm actually looking
(52:22):
at.
So we're technically purchasethe lot creatively via the
trailer park community, which isprobably an uphill battle or
move it's not really a traileranymore, but move that property
to stay on the same lake, but toa lot that's.
There's a couple of lots thatare for sale on the lake, like
(52:44):
basically around the corner.
Couple lots that are for sale,um, on the lake, like basically
around the corner, um, but it'sbeen updated quite a bit that I
don't know if it's technically atrailer anymore that you can
move.
I mean it's.
We got a single car garage.
There's an, you know it'stechnically three bedrooms, not
two yeah, for us if it's liketied down, like on a foundation.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Then it's like financeable, gets treated like
real property and not with atitle.
Yeah, I don't know theintricacies of it was in or
whatnot yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
So here it's just a title.
So so now another property thatI financed by land contract to.
So and my, my in-law, foundthat on Facebook and I you, I
actually used the the.
So the price that she wantedwas fair for the income that it
was generating via Airbnb.
So with that knowledge, andthen the knowledge that I
(53:39):
basically like it had to be anall cash deal, I explained to
her like hey, we'd be crazy tocome up with 185 000 in cash,
but we can come up with 65 000in cash if you can finance the
rest, but the bank won't gofinance it.
And then she's like well, talkto the bank that financed it for
me.
So I called them up, I evenemailed correspondent and then
(54:02):
so I I sent that to her likehey's, like hey, they're not
doing financing on on trailersanymore.
So she was kind of like, okay,well, since you guys are willing
to pay roughly what I'm askingfor it, yeah, sure, I'll finance
the rest for you.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
Your price, my terms.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah, so, yeah, so, ideally, if somehow I can get
this property on land whetherit's the land that it's
currently on or a different lotthen that increases that
property significantly up there.
I mean, you're talking it'sprobably worth 350 to 400 000 at
that point, um, so it's, it's aplay that would be like huge
(54:42):
for us as far as um.
I mean, we'd probably haveinstant equity of a hundred to
150,000, um just by owning theland, because then I could go to
any bank and finance it, payoff the land contract, put a
mortgage on it, um, and be donewith it.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
So, um so what I'm hearing you say is we're going
to have to have you back on hereto talk about land contracts
and your new Airbnb venture atthe lake.
But we're coming up on time andI just wanted to see if there's
anything we want to chat aboutreal quick before we have to
wrap it up.
Is there any books or podcaststhat you recommend?
(55:25):
They've been influential inyour like your journey, if you
will.
Maybe for those folks justgetting started or looking to
get a little direction, so thepodcast I listen to religiously
is Real AF with Andy Frazella.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
He is, I mean it's.
It's.
It covers politics, um, itcovers business, um, I know he's
gonna get back to mfceo, whichis where I originated that was
my favorite one, okay yeah.
So apparently he keeps hintinglike he's gonna drop it, I think
, sometime this summer.
Um, that is like whether youwant to do life.
(56:05):
I feel is can give youdirection and can kind of give
you a kick in the ass too, ifyou need it, um to to just go
out there and get it.
Uh, let me, there's I.
I just look, I mean there's,there's so many leaders eat last
(56:27):
was a great one.
Um, I don't know if, if, likewhere you are um, a lot of the
times our lieutenants andcaptains will eat last and I
always joke with them about itand uh, then you realize okay,
it's just, you know that'ssomething that comes from the
military and uh, that that was agreat book.
Speaker 1 (56:47):
Um, but uh, yeah we do that, and then the other rule
on my shift is the ambo creweats first now if they haven't
been back for three hours.
That's something we still stickwith, so yeah but other than
that that's.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
I mean, those are really the only, that's really
the only podcast that I reallylisten to.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
Bigger podcast without saying ours Number one.
Andy second Got it.
No yeah, I was listening toAndy's this morning at the gym
so I always like it.
I personally like the MFCOproject better than some of the
political tirades, but hey,there's always little nuggets in
(57:30):
there about business which Ireally enjoy, and I just like it
that he doesn't have to answeranybody and that comes across in
his messages.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
Yes, exactly, and that is huge to be able to just
speak your mind.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
Tyler you have anything.
Speaker 3 (57:48):
No, I was.
I mean, we all.
I love andy too.
It was funny.
I was just thinking I love theone that he just did with billy
gene because he doesn't have toanswer anybody and they just had
a real conversation, like twofriends having a real
conversation, and I'm like dude,this is like I think our whole
country could benefit from justhaving authentic conversations
like that, to be honest, becauseat the end of the they're still
friends.
They had differing views on afew things.
Is that the AI one?
(58:09):
It was AI.
It was.
That's the one.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
I think I started today.
Speaker 2 (58:17):
Yeah, the end gets pretty spicy.
Yeah because Billy'sAfrican-American, as am I, but I
I feel like I was standing morewith andy at the end of that
one, um, but but his buddywasn't, and I didn't get to this
part yet.
Yeah, so it's, it's, it's spicyand not like they were arguing,
(58:41):
but just it was good and at theend of the day, the crazy thing
which, again, maybe you don'tlike the political stuff but you
can take from that is like hey,there was two people that had
differing opinions and they bothacknowledge each other's
opinions without calling themnames or you know all the time
(59:02):
yeah, it was respectful.
Speaker 3 (59:04):
You could tell they were on the opposite side and
like dj was kind of in themiddle I feel like.
But like I was, like, oh, wecan actually talk about her yeah
, no, no to your point.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
Man like you can have differing opinions and still be
friends, which I thinksometimes people need reminded
of.
It's not a all or nothingapproach, but that's a whole
nother podcast.
So, mike, if somebody wants toconnect with you, they're in
milwaukee, wisconsin, up in thatneck of the woods.
Uh, where should they reach outto you, um, or follow you?
Speaker 2 (59:38):
uh.
So I'm on facebook.
Uh, bretna capital is uh likekind of my business page.
Otherwise, mike Lowry, you canlook me up on Facebook too.
It's global, so we're open tothe world, to the public.
I'm on Instagram a little bit.
I'll throw I try to throw likelittle nuggets and reels
(59:58):
whenever there's something on mymind, a lot of the times real
estate investing related, I'llthrow something out there and
then, yeah, if anyone's lookingto buy or sell in the Milwaukee
markets I'm also a licensedrealtor I don't won't take
advantage of you.
I'm in a unique situation wheresome realtors that hear this
(01:00:22):
will probably get a little likesome full time realtors will
probably get a little irritatedthat I'm saying this.
But real estate in that formdoesn't put money on or doesn't
put food on the table for mykids.
That's what the fire departmentdoes.
So I will be patient and listento what you want to get done in
(01:00:44):
real estate and truly assistyou in in helping that.
Sometimes I feel like, uh,consumers can be a little bit
swayed um, and and stuff can bekind of withheld um from the
consumer in in that regard.
So, um, I just like to doeverything with You're a
(01:01:04):
transparent, investor friendlyagent.
Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Correct Out there for you.
Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
There you go, you said it better than I did.
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
All right, Mike.
Well, it's been good having youon and look forward to having
you back.
Talk about land contracts andmobile homes at the lake.
Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
Yeah, for sure.
Thanks, Mike.
Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Yeah.
Hey guys, welcome back to First Responder
Financial Freedom.
Today I got Tyler, myself andour buddy from Milwaukee Fire,
mike Lowry, who's doing a littlebit of real estate, and he's
going to share his journey abouthow he got into that space
while working the job.
So, mike, thanks for hopping onthe show and, if you don't mind
, just give everybody the twominute version or story of who
(00:25):
you are, where you came from,what you're doing, and we'll
take it from there.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yeah, guys, thank you for having me on the show.
So my journey started in highschool.
I'm originally from the UpperPeninsula of Michigan.
I got involved in, or heardabout, investing more so with
stocks, bonds, mutual funds ineighth grade about investing
more so with stocks, bonds,mutual funds In eighth grade
didn't really hear about realestate until a little bit later,
(00:49):
until my early 20s Graduatedwith a finance degree from
Michigan Tech and I started withMilwaukee Fire in 2010.
That journey was a littleinteresting.
I was a volunteer firefighterbefore that and realized that
working full-time for a firedepartment was more of a dream
(01:11):
of mine than working in a banksitting behind a desk in a
cubicle.
I wanted a big city firedepartment.
At the time, detroit wasn'thiring, so I applied for Flint,
michigan, grand Rapids, michiganand Milwaukee, and I wound up
being in the second class off ofthe 2008 list.
(01:32):
So I began the academy in 2010.
And, long story short, havebeen there ever since.
I did have a stint for twoyears where I was down in
Baytown, texas, which is asuburb of Houston, also as a
firefighter.
My current position is heavyequipment operator Some people
call them chauffeurs, butbasically driver and then I
(01:55):
drive truck nine, which issecond busiest truck in the city
.
We take probably about 105,000,110,000 calls a year citywide.
We've got I think now we've got29 or 30 stations open.
It's they've decommissionedsome units and brought some
units back.
So as I first transferred tothis firehouse, it houses engine
(02:21):
32, truck 9.
They had decommissioned.
It houses engine 32, truck 9.
They had decommissioned the rigjust south of us, engine 28.
So I believe it was 2022 or2021.
But for the whole station widewe took like about 95 miles that
year.
So it was averaging in betweenlike 15 and 20.
(02:43):
And the truck was averaginglike 12 to 15.
So in the mix, to say the least.
So it's been fun.
I've kind of been in that areaof Milwaukee where a lot of the
stuff happens for about the pastfive, six years now, so I'm
pretty solidified there.
(03:03):
As far as real estate goes, Ihere in Milwaukee being a
firefighter.
Obviously you get to know theneighborhoods very well.
You run down one block 10 times.
(03:24):
You know in a month, month andyou don't see the next block
ever in three years of beingassigned to that location.
Others in the milwaukee marketin 18.
(03:49):
That was a time where I feellike the milwaukee market really
kind of like took off.
People you know it was.
It was popping up on yahoo, um,finance, um, it was just
popping up everywhere.
Everyone seemed to be hearingabout Milwaukee, and so we had a
(04:11):
lot of out-of-state investors,a lot of foreign investors,
coming in, which made the marketcurrently pretty competitive.
But back in 2017 2017 you couldfind deals that easily met the
two percent rule very at thetime.
Uh, for instance, I'll justgive you a one of one of our
(04:33):
deals that we did right away um,we had bought a two bedroom,
one bath, uh, ranch home had abasement.
All we had to do was was paintand refinish the hardwood floors
.
We got into that, I think, for$35,000 all in, and we were able
to rent it out for like $900 amonth.
So that's kind of like what wewere looking at there.
(04:56):
With that, we were able topurchase like six units pretty
much in like six months it was,and we had a partner out in
vegas and uh, so we were kind of50 50, my brother and I and
then our partner in vegas and,um, as we started going with
that, we um just yeah, that'skind of where, where we started,
(05:22):
um, we've sold off pretty muchthe whole portfolio.
It's interesting working withpartners.
Sometimes when you start youguys have all a direct line as
to where you want to go and howyou want to grow, and then
obviously things can change.
So now I'm working a little bitmore just on not necessarily
(05:45):
partnerships anymore, but I gotmy real estate license in
October.
So I'm working kind of bothends of the real estate and also
trying to work and I have yetto get my first syndication deal
(06:05):
, but still working on it.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
And obviously you know you keep pushing forward.
Okay, so there was and we'lltry and fix some of those pauses
because it was lagging a littlebit there, but okay, so let's
back this up a hair.
So you went to college, startedout as a volunteer.
You went to college, got adegree in finance, got hired by
the city of Milwaukee in 2010.
(06:32):
When did you buy your firstreal estate deal?
I think you said you gotinterested in finances in eighth
grade.
Like what are you the WarrenBuffett from Michigan?
My son's almost there and Ihave to remind him to breathe,
let alone buy.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, no, I just had a teacher, mr Downs, and he just
he gave an example of how youknow if you, if you just I don't
even know what it was at thetime If you invested 25 bucks a
week or something, you could bea millionaire by the time you
were you know 30 or whatever.
Whatever it was, you know whatI mean and so I was just always
interested with that compoundinginterest.
(07:08):
So that's kind of what pushedme towards the stock market and
into finance in general.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
So did you have real estate we'll call it investments
prior to getting on the job.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Nope, I uh, I was on the job, uh, before I had any,
uh, real estate.
So the first house that I everbought was a single family house
with my ex-wife in 2012.
Um, and then the firstinvestment property that I
bought was in 2017.
So, uh, basically from Novemberof 2017 to May of 2018, we
(07:47):
bought a duplex on land contractand then we bought what was it?
Three or three single familyunits.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
You got into real estate while you were on the job
, but your goal was to buy.
From what I'm hearing was tobuy cash flow real estate.
Right, you weren't necessarilyflipping per se, or I know you
mentioned syndicating now, butit sounds like when you got
started in it it was cash flowproperties is that correct.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Yeah, so we bought in um.
You know, I would say I wouldconsider them like class c
neighborhoods, um, but again,with the background in
firefighting I knew the littlepockets within the neighborhoods
.
Um, there's been documentarieson it and stuff like that.
Uh, 53206 is like the mostincarcerated zip code in like
(08:35):
the entire country.
Uh, there's not even a grocerystore in that zip code here in
milwaukee, um, so it's, it's avery interesting, very diverse,
very segregated still.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
I would not call that a C-class neighborhood then.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
No, I'm saying I was not investing in those, but yeah
, that would be considered.
I would think maybe even a warzone.
So just to give you an idea,that is like the D, so I was
just a step above that.
In neighborhoods where peoplegrew up, they still wanted to
live.
I've never done like sectioneight or anything like that.
(09:12):
So all my tenants you know wereare employed and stuff like
that.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
So yeah, Employment's not a protected class.
So that's sweet, what.
What is and I always joke iswhenever I first started getting
into real estate, the guys atthe firehouse called me slumlord
, and some still throw thataround.
And I think because a lot oftimes the properties not always,
(09:40):
but a lot of the times, theones that were in and out of,
like you said, 10 times a week,are those D class, slumlord type
clientele, right, but there'splenty of rental properties in
our area.
I'm sure of it that we've neverstepped foot in and probably
won't for a long time.
(10:01):
And you know the C classproperties, at least from where
I got started, those were likethe bread and butter, like
because you could buy.
We'll call it a C-plus, right,it was nice, probably a little
dated here and there, but thatguy worked, you know, a steady
job at a factory, driving atruck, like he was trying to
(10:23):
provide the wife or significantother.
She had a job, they probablyhad a kid or two.
They were just the good average, and I use this not in any sort
of derogatory way.
They were just the good average, hardworking people that were
going to work 40 years and dietype thing.
They unfortunately wereprobably never going to get out
(10:43):
of that cycle if you will.
But they were good people, theytook care of their stuff and
oftentimes they come from just afamily and history of renters.
Like they don't even thinkhomeownership is a possibility.
Then you go to the people thatthey don't even have a grocery
store in their neighborhood.
They know, they know alifestyle Also, it's stealing,
drugs et cetera.
(11:04):
Like you don't want to investin that neighborhood.
But then you go to the otherside.
You got the class a stuff.
Oh man, we lost our guest.
I must have.
I must have said something.
Um.
So then you go to the a a classproperties.
Well, there's no margin reallyto be made, especially with guys
like us.
You know that's more for likewealth preservation, the
(11:26):
syndication guys.
But like the guys like us,we're just trying to get in that
like sweet spot where you don'twant to have to carry the ar to
the property to collect rentbut you know it doesn't have a
marble entrance into theclubhouse either in the
community.
So like you kind of need thatsweet spot of uh in that market,
so can you walk us through theprice.
And so like you kind of needthat sweet spot of in that
market.
So can you walk us through theprice?
(11:46):
And I know you said it was aex-wife, so I'm assuming the
dust has settled there.
But could you just kind of giveus the?
How did you get into that firstproperty?
What did it look like?
How did you find it, fund it?
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yeah, so so the the first property with the ex that
was, that was I was just kind ofgiven the narrative of like,
that was the first property I'dever purchased was in 2012.
Um, as far as you know, thatwas, that was just a personal
residence.
Um, my first investmentproperty actually was a retiring
landlord.
Um, complex, or to our finance,so we got in you're all
(12:37):
reenacted for everybodylistening.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
Mike got into this property with seller finance and
then he apparently got veryscared.
Based on this space, I don'tknow what's going on.
How are you on mute bud?
Speaker 3 (12:53):
what do you want to do?
Try to, because it's frozencompletely again.
Yeah, there you go.
No, you there, mike uh-oh EETphone home.
(13:15):
We can see you Now.
You're working.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Okay, okay, cause I was like I can, I was hearing my
like myself, but I couldn't seeyou guys.
But anyways, uh, 8,000 duplex,uh, so we put 10,000 down, we
put about another 15 grand intoit, uh, and then we were renting
(13:38):
each one of those units out for750 a month, so 1500 a month.
We were taking in.
We had an amortized over 30years on a five-year balloon, so
I believe we were paying theprevious owner about five, 600
bucks a month and then,essentially, you know cash
flowing.
The rest, we actually wound upselling that at the five year
mark and we sold it for, Ibelieve, 160 or 165.
(14:03):
And the crazy thing is is wegave the, we gave the lady who
we bought it from a check Ibelieve was for like 71 grand to
pay off the land contract, andthen we cashed a check of like
73 grand.
So that was, you know, kind ofkind of and and cool as, as a
(14:24):
first deal, a success.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
So, yeah, we'll call that not necessarily typical.
Yeah, let's rewind that, causeI always like to and I know I
say this pretty much with allthe episodes but I kind of like
to think about the person that'slistening to this in their
cruiser in the end, or whatnot,or in their drive home, and
they're like, how do I get thatfirst one?
It's real easy to sit here andtalk about some of these things,
(14:50):
but it's like, ok, youmentioned seller finance, land
contract, all these things.
But it's like, okay, youmentioned seller finance, land
contract, all these things thatare just phenomenal.
How did you find this deal?
Was this on the mls or was thisoff market?
Speaker 2 (15:01):
um, you know it, I somehow I got connected with her
son, who was a realtor, and Idon't, for the life of me I
can't remember.
Um, okay, either way, you, youthrew something out For the life
of me I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Okay, either way, you threw something out, dude, do
you see that?
So Tyler just messaged you.
He goes is your finger?
Okay?
Sa is still high.
Yeah, so I wear a metal weddingring and I was working out at
the gym and I don't even know.
I went to go do pull-ups and Ilooked at it it, and I said to
(15:34):
my wife I'm like what happened?
So, yeah, I took it off, it'sfine, it looks gnarly.
Yeah, I could get a tattoo.
But all right, sorry, squirrel,what was I saying You're?
asking about you basically putit out there at some point that
you're looking to buy a propertyand I can assure you that all
(15:56):
of this information is great,but without any action, none of
it matters, right?
And if you sit there and justnow, with social media and the
way it is, like I've boughtnumerous deals just off of
posting on social media I've hadnumerous people offer to you,
know, lend us money off ofsocial media.
(16:16):
So you can literally and I saythis like you can use social
media to like be a producer, notjust a consumer.
So, like you could sit there,how you could get started today
is like, hey, I'm looking to buymy first rental property.
If anybody know is looking tosell, let me know.
Okay, is it kind of like a?
(16:38):
It's a little bit of fishingLike you probably aren't going
to get a deal right out the gate, but if you're consistent with
it, like, hey, I'm walking thisproperty today, I'm doing this,
I'm doing that Pretty soon.
The brother that works over atyou know, engine 44 knows that
you're doing this and theirbrother's retiring landlord.
It may never work out, but itmight, and all it takes is one
(17:00):
or two of those connections ordegrees of separation.
Now, your community is helpingyou know, achieve what you're
looking to do, so so how did youfinance it, though?
Because you said land contractand seller finance, like those
are things that get tossedaround, and you know I've used
both of them and they're great,but like what exactly does that
(17:20):
mean to the guy that's lookingto say, like, hey, I got 10
grand, but like, then what?
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Yeah, so I mean to be honest, like you said, you put
yourself out there.
The biggest thing is, in myopinion, is making connections.
So, like you said, tell peoplethat you're interested in buying
real estate and then I don'tthink there's ever been anyone
that I've ever talked to aboutany deal, uh, whether I was
interested in it or not, that Ihaven't asked if they would be
(17:47):
willing to sell or finance,because, because obviously
that's just the easiest way togo right, um, and then, and then
you have the ability to, froman investment standpoint, from
an investor standpoint, tostructure it in a way that kind
of benefits you, if you know, if, if they go for that, um, but
yeah, I mean, so we wound upgetting the capital.
(18:10):
So my brother and I wound upgetting capital.
Actually, our sister had cancerand she wasn't passing away and
so we wound up leaving some, orshe left some money from us um
or to us, um, so we we had about44 grand and, uh, through
bigger pockets, um, I'm suremost people have heard of that
by now, but bigger pockets waspretty in its infancy back in
(18:32):
2015, 2016.
But through BiggerPockets, wehad met John, who we partnered
with, and John is originallyfrom Wisconsin but lives out in
Vegas, and so we pooled ourmoney together.
We basically had $88,000.
And we just said, hey, how canwe go out and get properties?
(18:56):
So I started with Facebook, Istarted getting into REI groups,
meeting people, talking torealtors who are also investors,
so on and so forth, andeventually a lot of people talk
(19:16):
about that synergistic effect,like, hey, once you close that
first deal, the next deals willwill come subsequently.
And, honestly, like that's howit was for us.
I mean, we closed that firstdeal in November and, like I
said, by May we we had fiveunits and I was really into the
thick of it.
You know managing theproperties my brother doesn't
live in Milwaukee, he lives inMichigan.
(19:36):
And obviously John, our partner, he lives out in Vegas.
So you know, I was buildingsystems, figuring out how to you
know manage tenants, how toscreen them.
You know what needed to be doneto you know get the highest
rents, like that.
But as far as you know, justjust being into it, I mean like,
like you said, you just youjust have to put it out there.
(19:57):
I think, like anything else,right, like you, just you just
have to put it out there.
Speaker 1 (20:01):
And yeah, you literally and I look at this way
the only people that are gonnaon that idea or the guy's not
doing anything, and you justhave to be willing to know that,
accept it and realize youwouldn't ask them for financial
advice.
So don't like listen to any ofthe hate either.
I mean, I'm not saying itdoesn't bug you at some point,
(20:22):
especially early on, but onceyou start getting some traction,
man that's, you can't even hearthat noise, right?
So you kind of touched onsomething that's near and dear
to my heart.
Right now is operating at thesystems, and before we get to
(20:42):
that, I just want to.
You mentioned the 2% rule.
So anybody that's not familiarcould you just kind of like
briefly describe the 1% or 2%rule and how you were evaluating
these deals to see if they madesense?
Speaker 2 (20:57):
yeah.
So basically, um, okay, so ifyou buy a property for a hundred
thousand dollars, then roughlyyou'd want, uh, two percent of
that in monthly rent.
Um, so in milwaukee we wereable to, like I said, we were
getting fifteen hundred dollars,um, on an eighty88,000 property
.
We had roughly a little over ahundred thousand into it, so
(21:20):
that was like a 1.5%.
Another property we hadpurchased for, like I said, I
think all in we were 30 grand.
So we were renting that out for900 a month.
We were renting that out for900 a month.
So obviously that was a 3% rulein that case.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Was that a lower class area?
Was that getting close to thatD area?
Speaker 2 (21:43):
No, that was actually all.
The properties that I'mreferring to were, I would say,
within like two miles of eachother.
All I would say C neighborhood.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
Yeah, it's easy to look back now, but there's a lot
of properties I passed on thatwould have meant that like one
to one and a half percent rolethat I'm like no, no, no, and
now I'm like geez, if I wouldhave bought those Right.
But you know, again lookingback, it looks a lot better from
this vantage point than at thetime Um, because I was working
(22:12):
off the 2% rule also.
And that then leads me into thenext thing is like you're
sitting there looking at thesethings based off what they're
either currently producing orthe pro forma, so to speak.
But once you get in there andyou just mentioned systems and
operating and this is what I wassaying is near and dear to my
heart right now is becausefinding the deal at first that's
(22:36):
like the first mountain andthen the second mountain is
actually operating the deal.
And whether it's a your firstrental property or what I'm
dealing with right now is astorage facility that we bought
that has a I say big, but it'snot comparatively speaking but
like a lot of parking, outdoorparking.
So the operation side of thisdeal, finding it was one thing,
(22:57):
but now like operating it andoperating it efficiently and
undoing the years of just messis a whole different thing.
So what kind of systems andprocedures did you set up or
have you been utilizing and Idon't know if you're still
self-managing.
I know you mentioned you soldsome of your stuff, but the guy
(23:18):
that gets his first rental fiverentals, whatever it is what are
some systems that you'reutilizing or did utilize to help
make that manageable,considering you were the boots
on the ground, so to speak, andthis guy's in Michigan, this
guy's in Wisconsin or Vegas,whatever, what was?
What did that look like?
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Yeah, so having it.
So first things first, ifyou're going to manage your
properties, you have to treat itlike a business.
I think we see a lot of peoplethey say, hey, I'm going to, I'm
going to get into real estate,and then what they do is they're
just like oh, I'm going to rentto my buddies and oh, well, you
know, my mom's friend is havingtrouble paying rent, but you
(24:00):
know, I didn't sign a lease withher because she's my mom's
friend and to me you just, youjust can't do that.
Like you're not running it likea business, you're running it
like a hobby.
Like you know, my hobbies areplaying hockey and golf and
going out for runs.
So if I half-ass those things,that's not that big of a deal,
right, because it's a hobby.
But when you start half-assingreal estate, in my opinion.
(24:23):
So first advice that I get foroperating is you really got to
treat it like a business.
With that being said, I keepspreadsheets, like just in
Google sheets, um, so everymonth tracking, tracking your
income and expenses, um, andthen you have to manage that.
(24:44):
So that first property that webought, duplex I learned very
quickly that when you so, therewas always some like snow
removal, lawn care, who gets topark in the garage, who has to
park on the street there'salways some mix of things that
was happening, um.
So that's kind of why wefocused on single family.
(25:07):
After that, then you usuallyget a couple or a single parent
with with children and this andthat, and there's there's not so
much of the the nitpickingstuff, um.
But I, as far as operating andmanaging, I believe if you treat
your tenants how you want to betreated, then you're good to go
(25:28):
.
When you coming, coming frombeing a firefighter and public
service to, you're in thatsituation where you're running
calls and you have to showcompassion, um, you have to care
for that person.
So if you kind of take thatinto how you're operating, I
(25:51):
think people respect you.
So, for instance, you know Ihave we all have, you know
electricians, plumbers, you knowwhatever you need, right.
So you get a call in themorning saying, hey, I didn't, I
didn't have any hot water.
When I try to take a showerbefore work, I made sure that
there was a new hot water heaterinstalled.
It wasn't just like, well, hey,go.
(26:15):
I wasn't telling my plumber hey, just go, put a band-aid on it.
No, just give them a new hotwater heater.
It's gonna cost you know, atthe time it was you know a
thousand bucks or something toinstall it and and you know, and
then all of a sudden the tenantcomes home that evening and
they got a new water heater andyou know they, they think you're
awesome for it.
I actually had a tenant leavethe duplex.
She moved into one of the singlefamilies that we bought and
(26:36):
then she moved out of the singlefamily and to this day, like
every six months, she calls meand asks if I have any vacancies
, because she just appreciatedhow I was treating her and the
types of things that I did as alandlord.
So, ultimately, if you treat itlike a business, a landlord so
ultimately, if you treat it likea business or your family,
(26:59):
that's, in my opinion, the youknow going deeper into that.
You know, if you know areliable electrician, if you
know a reliable plumber, if youknow a reliable email, things
will take you a long way.
So you can.
What I always do is I alwaysjust basically send those
(27:22):
contractors right to the tenant,and they even have a
relationship with that tenantthen too, and that leaves a lot
of headache off of my plate too.
Um, and for all the people outthere who think that you're
going to get the phone call at 2am for the clogged toilet, like
I've never had that happen.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Um, my tenants also, you know, like the fire when
you're at work you got to dealwith that but not at home for
your own property.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:54):
Well, and like I think too, like the way you
train your tenants too, like ifyou, just if you kind of say,
hey, just like you go to workfrom nine to five, my business
hours are, you know, nine tofive.
If it's an emergency, thenobviously you know you can get a
hold of me.
Um, but then another thing I'vedone and I've I've kept it like
this this is probably beengoing on about five years is, uh
(28:17):
, keeping my phone on do notdisturb, and only like answering
when I need to.
Um, because obviously you gotgroup chats with your buddies,
you got your wife texting you.
Now all of a sudden thetenant's texting you and I just
felt like I was constantly on myphone and I can say, even with
that advice, I've never missedout on a deal, I've never had
(28:39):
some catastrophic issue that'shappened.
I think people want yourattention and nowadays, you know
I think people want yourattention and nowadays
everyone's so in tune to like,oh, if I send him a text he's
going to respond right away, butat the end of the day, like you
really don't need to, you know.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
So now I would say, pro tip, set up a different
phone number for your tenants tohave.
Don't give them your personalcell phone number.
One of my tenants granted,they've been with me like 10
years.
At this point they still haveit, but that was the last person
, except for when we bought astorage facility the previous
owner because I had beencommunicating with him for so
long.
Whenever it was time totransition, he gave all of the
(29:24):
you know 100 plus people mypersonal cell phone number.
So that was awesome.
So I would just encourage you to, like you know, be accessible
during, like you said, businesshours and exactly, set up that.
Do not disturb, and I can't sayanything better than yep, it's
how you train them, that's withlate fees, that's with
(29:45):
everything, and I don't care howyou want to sell it to them.
Just say like listen, I knowyou, you deal with me, but like
I have a boss, you could use theguy in Vegas, whatever you be.
Like hey, my boss, he, I reallywanted to waive your late fee
Cause I I think you're awesome,but like I'm sorry, like it's
not my call, like you, make himthat guy Right, if you want to,
(30:07):
or you can just be like, listen,no like no and that and that's
like.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Whenever people reached out to me, I was the
property manager and I alwaystold them I had to talk to the
owner even though I knew in mymind the decision was already
made.
But cause I was the owner, butthen I just I said, well, no,
sorry, this is what the ownerswanted and I'm just the property
manager.
So it was kind of like don'tshoot the messenger type thing,
(30:31):
but at the same time I was alsothe one that was getting the
stuff done that they wanted toget done.
So they respected me for thatand I think I used what is it?
Google phone or Google call orwhatever?
Yeah, google voice.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
I don't even know if they still have that anymore,
but there's a bunch of differentproviders out there for that
kind of stuff.
How, how were you evaluatingwhat made a quality application?
Cause I presume you were doingthe the applications and the
underwriting of the tenant andthere's so many different
platforms out there now that, tobe fair, like I couldn't even
(31:10):
speak to them.
That great, because I've beenusing a property management
company which we could also talkabout how you have to manage
them for the last several years.
But, like when I first gotstarted everything, like I was
still doing paper applicationsand like I'm doing open house
and you could apply there.
Now it's like I send you thelink and you can actually tell a
(31:32):
lot, I think, about how good ofa tenant they're going to be to
some extent with if you sendthem.
When somebody reaches out, Iimmediately would send them like
almost like an assignment.
Like here go here, fill thisout Once I have your information
, I your application.
Go here, fill this out Once Ihave your information, ie your
application, we'll get itstarted.
So then it puts the workloadback on them right away and it
(31:54):
weeds out people right from theget-go about who can follow
instructions, so on and so forth, and if they can do that, they
follow the steps that you layout for them.
They pay online, you know.
So we've established theirresponse of they can follow
directions, oh, and they knowhow to use some sort of
technology, which, again, payingonline now is a lot more common
(32:17):
than it was even just 10 yearsago, right?
So if they can't even figurethat out, I don't want to mess
with it, because I'm not meetingup to collect a check.
I don't even mail it, all thiscrap.
I just want you to set it up atthe beginning of the lease,
like we use apartmentscom still.
Like boom, I get a notification, it's coming in.
If you can't figure that out, Ialready know you're probably
(32:39):
going to be a headache when itcomes to rent collection, you
know yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Yeah, the.
So the one thing open housethat was my first kind of
mistake when I had my first unitthat I needed to rent out,
because you would get 15 peoplethat would hit you up right away
.
And then you'd show up forthese times and out of those 15
people, maybe two showed up ifyou were lucky.
(33:05):
15 people, maybe two showed upif you were lucky.
And so now you're just runningback and forth to this property
thinking that you've got peoplelined up and then you just
realize, okay, you know theywere full of crap.
So I started using I believe itwas Yahoo and Cozy.
I think I've used both of thosebefore and, like you said, you
say, okay, if you're interested,please fill out the application
(33:26):
here in wisconsin.
Uh, I think the max you cancharge is like 25 bucks, um, so
I think yahoo charged 40.
So if they filled out theapplication and they paid their
25, then I would cover the restto run um the background check
and then their credit report,stuff like that, and then what I
(33:48):
would do is to not discriminateequal housing, all that stuff
is.
Let's say, the first tenantcame in and they had, or the
first applicant came in, theydid all their homework but they
had an eviction, so basicallyany negative things on their
credit.
I would increase the securitydeposit.
(34:09):
So most of the time securitydeposit is one month's rent.
So let's just say rent's athousand bucks but you have an
eviction, so then I'm going tocharge you 2000 for your
security deposit plus a thousandfor that first month's rent.
So you have to come up withthree grand if you want to rent
my unit.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
So you do allow if they've had an eviction.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
Yep.
So I mean, and realistically,so what do you look at?
Evictions, credit score, income, stuff like that?
But what I found is when you dothat, the people are just like
no, and so it's like okay, well,then you move on to the next
one and then usually you knowyou would get someone.
So I've never actually rentedto someone that had an eviction,
(34:53):
because a lot of the times,let's face it, that that, but
that was also a way to to tomake it fair across the board.
Um yeah, Was it discriminating?
(35:14):
But then you're almost settingyourself up to get the tenants.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
Yeah, no, I, I totally hear you.
That's I saw.
If it's an evict, if you havean eviction, I say in the last
10 years I won't rent, um, butwhat you're saying makes total
sense because you're right and alot of times they're not going
to be truthful.
But when you do the I thinkit's my smart movecom they run
the, the background check, thecredit check and all that stuff
(35:42):
and where it usually shows up,people are always like, oh, my
credit's not that good.
Like, okay, I get it um, um.
But when I look at the credit,if it's like you were late on a
car payment, you know yourvictoria's secret credit card is
, you know, 90 days, whatever, Itake all that into account.
But what I'm mainly looking foris judgments from property
(36:03):
management companies.
Like, if I see a judgment fromyou know something, something
property management, that'swhere it's.
See a judgment from you knowsomething, something property
management, that's where it'slike, oh, you told me you didn't
have an eviction, here's ajudgment, that's a problem.
Yeah, valities, kiddie peddlersand evictions are like my three
that I'm not a big fan of.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah.
So when my wife and I movedinto our current residence,
where I'm sitting right now, westill rent out our uh old
residence in a in theNorthwestern part of the city.
Uh, we live in the Southeasternpart of the city now, but, um,
we actually did, uh rent ourpersonal residence to a woman,
um who, uh, she actually likelost her home in foreclosure and
(36:46):
, um, she had a sister who wasalso a real estate investor.
Um, they both loved the house.
Uh, they came, they came withtheir mom, and so I said, okay,
well, it's going to be two timessecurity deposit plus first
month's rent and your sisterwill co-sign.
That's, that's the only way I'mgoing to lease to you.
And, uh, she actually, uh, wecame to agreement with that.
(37:08):
Her sister was cool withco-signing and I told her I mean
, I told her sister straight uplike, hey, you're in the game
too.
If your sister's not paying,I'm coming after you, you know?
And uh, she's like no, Itotally understand.
And she lived there for fiveyears, no issues.
Um, so that's that's.
The other thing, too is I thinkwe see in our field, people,
(37:30):
most people can I shouldn't saymost people, but people can be
successful after making amistake.
You know what I mean.
Like giving people secondchances necessarily isn't, you
know, the worst thing.
At the same token, right nowI'm dealing with two properties
that I sold about five years agoon land contract and that guy
(37:54):
was like we sold it to him 0%down, we were aggressive with
the interest rate, he was payingall the way up until this past
November and then come to findout, you know, now he's not
paying and so we're kind ofdealing with that, and then he
hasn't kept up the propertiesand so on and so forth.
So while one story is good, theother story might be bad, but
(38:20):
that's just part of the game too, you know.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Yeah, and, to be fair , like I say no to that stuff.
But I look at the totality ofthe applicant because even
though I have a propertymanagement company, I still
review the application beforewe'll sign the lease and they
know what we like and don't like.
But it you said a foreclosure,so you don't know.
Like you mentioned, your sisterhad a health problem.
(38:45):
Stuff happens in life.
If they lose their house due tosome, we'll call it extenuating
circumstance.
I'm looking for the personthat's like they got the 480
credit score.
They're late on this.
They were evicted there.
They need to move right now.
Don't worry, I got the money, Ican move in next week.
I'm looking for the red flags.
I guess I should say the bigtakeaway is make sure you have a
(39:09):
system, you're following it andyou just take the emotion out
of it.
Um, I'm not saying at times youshouldn't, as tyler just said,
have your essay, not that kindof, say, my situational
awareness, I say, but, um, likethe, you need to have a system
to evaluate everything so thatyou can remove emotion.
And if you just solely go basedon your gut, I mean a lot of
(39:33):
times that's right, but at timesyou can, you know, get blinded
by some of it too.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
So anyways, I think, not to cut you off, but just for
your listeners too, I mean.
So taking emotions out of it ishuge.
You want to manage a propertyon emotion, and then the thing
too that I think is good for anewer investor to understand is
(40:02):
to manage that first propertyBecause, like you said, you're
now with a property managementcompany, but how do you know
what they're supposed to bedoing?
You've never managed yourproperty yourself, so I've never
had a property managementcompany.
But if I did have a propertymanagement company and they
weren't meeting all the criteriathat I was meeting, then I
(40:24):
would, you know, be able to firethem essentially and and find
someone else.
If you don't even know whatsystems you need to have in
place, then how are you going toknow if your property
management isn't takingadvantage of you?
So that would just be one thingthat I would advise you know,
treat it like a business,operate it.
(40:46):
You know, even for six monthsyou'll be able to figure out how
it should be done and then findsomeone that's going to do it
85% as well as you are, cause,let's face it, no property
management company is going todo it as good as you are,
because they're just not, theydon't have the investment in it,
so, but I do believe thatthat's that everyone that's
(41:10):
getting involved should at leasthave a good grasp of that,
because that can definitely takea chunk of your cashflow away.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
So yeah, and I think so.
You've mentioned a little bittoo that you divested a lot of
your portfolio recently, and I'mguessing, with partnerships and
things that change, it's ifyou're not equally yoked, things
are going to start to crack andthe partnership no longer works
.
So for me, I owned propertiesin the early 2000s with two of
(41:41):
my best friends.
We divested.
Luckily it wasn't a big deal,just our lives had changed.
We went from single three of usas single guys to we were all
married.
One of them started having kids, the other two were trying to
have kids, and it doesn't haveto be that, but anything.
When things start to change andthen the relationship becomes
unequally yoked, then it nolonger makes sense.
(42:03):
I'm curious did life justhappen?
Did things become unequallyyoked towards like, hey, let's
go ahead and divest so we canall kind of do what we need to
do?
Um, what, in your opinion?
What necessitated that change?
Speaker 2 (42:17):
Yeah, so it was a.
It was a good uh, I would sayit was a good mix of a lot of
different things.
So we so we had COVID and wehad uh so coming so dealing with
c neighborhood properties.
Um, we had tenants who weren'table to go to work because of
colvin and then, and then wewould wind up getting, like six
(42:40):
months from, from theneighborhood services or whoever
sent, like the COVID checkbecause they were able to verify
like hey, we, we couldn't go towork for this time.
So so there was that andobviously, like for me and my
family, like our lives didn'tchange, my, my wife is also on
(43:01):
the Milwaukee fire department Um, so we were going to work, we
were going to the grocery store,we were around sick people, um,
so it was very tough to wrap myhead around, like what is
exactly going on?
Like we're literally stuff shutdown, my tenants can't go, like
how long is this going to go on,right?
So so there was that, coupledwith the rising home prices, I
(43:26):
mean every property so purchasedfor 88, sold for 160, purchased
for 35, sold for 60, purchasedfor 35, sold for 100.
I mean that's kind of themargins we were looking at, and
(43:49):
so it was kind of, it was thosetwo things.
And then, like you said, it wasI'm the boots on the ground.
I'm quote unquote 100% of theoperating for which was we kept.
If we kept, uh, increasing ourportfolio, you know, if we kept
(44:14):
buying properties, I was finedoing that.
My brother and I we hadexhausted our capital in these
properties, so I was relying on,you know, um, our investor, uh,
john from ve, and you know hewas just not in the same, he
didn't have the same idea.
He was, he was starting to getmore into other investments and
(44:38):
and so on and so forth.
And so it was just one of thosethings where, collectively, I
was kind of like hey, guys, weshould go this route and keep
moving forward.
And you know, we had an LLC,maybe we could get some lending
because we've just doneeverything on cash.
You know, maybe we could takesome of these properties and get
a line of credit and then usethat line of credit for down,
(44:58):
you know, start to get a littlecreative with it, and it just I
just wasn't getting theenthusiasm, in a sense, that I
would have liked to, um, from mypartners.
So then it was kind of like,okay, well, I'm not, I just
don't want to sit stagnant andthen keep managing this stuff in
an uncertain time, you know,and and not really know, like,
(45:20):
what the next step is.
So, um, you know, we justdecided like, hey, maybe we
could, we should sell these.
And, um, you know, we justdecided like, hey, maybe we
should sell these.
And you know, we obviously, youknow, did very well with the
partnership, as a matter of fact, and I still have a
relationship with my brother, Istill have a relationship with
(45:42):
so both of their names are Johntoo, so I have a relationship
with both Johns, john too, so Ihave a relationship with both
Johns.
But, yeah, so it's not.
You know, maybe something wouldhappen down the road where you
know Vegas, john and I, you know, partner up again.
But as of right now, it's justkind of like I'm trying to
really find the focus on myself,the focus on myself.
(46:05):
Like I said, I still have theproperty that my wife purchased.
So she got on the job when shewas 18 years old, basically
bought a house when she was like20.
So that house we have rentedout right now, and then we
(46:26):
actually also went in, her and Iwith her parents on a property
up in Northern Wisconsin that weactually run as Airbnb up in
Monaco, so that's kind of ourlatest thing.
So, while I divested in onearea, I kind of, you know,
relocated to, you know stuffthat's a little bit more
personal and stuff that, likethe property up north.
(46:48):
You know we don't ever plan onselling that.
That's just going to besomething that the kids will be
able to have and somethingsomewhere for us to go to as
well, um, but that's a whole youknow different animal, which is
also exciting to be a hostversus being a landlord, um, to
different animals.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
There too 100% agree on that one.
Okay, well, so you basicallyjust shifted gears and it's one
of those things like you learnedthe skill sets of underwriting
deals, managing deals.
So, whether it is a rentalproperty that you had with other
investors or it's a portfolio,you're looking to now go out and
(47:27):
build more for yourself andyour wife, or whatnot like you
you know the metaphor like youlearn how to fish type thing.
So like, now you have that skillset, you can go out there and,
depending on what your goals are, um, you can kind of utilize
those.
Because I look at it this way,there's times I'm like man, I
(47:47):
wish I wouldn't have sold thisor this.
But you know like, if I thinkabout if I would have held a
couple of the properties I soldbefore COVID, if I would have
held them until after COVID dude, game changer, right, but you
don't know that, and I try tonot sit there and just look in
(48:08):
the rear view mirror type thing.
But they always say that'sclearer than the windshield,
which is super true.
And at the time they were doingrent moratoriums, like there was
a lot of unknown, and you knowlike, anyways, you don't know
what you don't know at the time.
So I wish I would have held on,but I sold them, rolled the
(48:30):
cash into some other stuff andit's just different.
You know like, so now I'mlending, so now we're doing this
, like it's just other stuff,but I try not to get too hung up
on it.
So, is your goal moving forward?
Do you think to move moretowards the hospitality space?
Basically Do the Airbnb model,or was that just like a one and
done?
Or is your goal to build up um,uh, you know, c class property
(48:56):
cashflow portfolio in Milwaukee?
Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yeah, so that's kind of it's.
It's funny because I I say thatif you have limited funds, you
could make basically anythingwork, Like you could buy
anything and make it work.
I truly feel that the skillsthat you gain just from
operating real estate can go along way.
So right now, northernWisconsin, there's a need for
(49:23):
rental properties.
I actually had a 23 unit undercontract, um, and I could not
find financing.
I I tried locally up innorthern wisconsin, tried local
milwaukee, um, and no one,because it was a.
It was a town of 2500 people,um, but this, but this apartment
(49:45):
complex was 100% rented, withlike a list of 15 people that
were looking.
I had all the projections,everything presented to 15
different people.
I had to get private fundingall of this stuff and no one
wanted to touch it.
And I'm talking to people upthere and I know, because I have
(50:07):
an Airbnb 45 minutes from thistown, that a guy literally
stayed at my Airbnb because hewas trying to find his daughter
somewhere to rent, because shewas living with her grandma in a
55 plus community and she couldonly be there for like another
month, and so he had to go upthere and like literally scour
the newspaper, like drive around, you know, go up there and like
(50:29):
literally scour the newspaper,like drive around trying, you
know, and, and so I was justkind of floored by the fact that
I couldn't get that deal done,um and that, and that really
kind of kicked me down a coupleof rungs, so to speak, in the in
.
As far as syndication, um wasconcerned, um, and at that I
think it was, was it was about ayear before, that is, when we
had purchased the Airbnb, and Ipurchased that as an Airbnb, but
(50:53):
ultimately, like I said, that'skind of like a family retreat.
My in-laws, they go up thereonce in May and once in October.
It was kind of.
I told my wife that I reallylike that was probably the best
investment I've ever made, justbecause I know that her parents
always wanted a place on waterand now they have a place on
(51:15):
water, and so it's not like it'syeah, it's not like it's making
a ton of money but it's payingfor itself.
So, and then we're bringing thefamily.
Like, we're bringing our familyuh, my wife and the kids up
there at the end of August,right before school starts.
So it'll be cool to uh, yeah,take, take our kids fishing and,
(51:36):
you know, show them around.
They actually haven't been upthere.
We've owned it for a coupleyears now and just just the
summer.
So I mean we're already gettingbookings for summer of 2026, so
that's so.
That's just the way it goes.
So we don't take away frompotential income just to go out
there for the family until it'spaid off.
(51:57):
So we're going to go with that.
But as far as you know, movingforward, you know it's weird.
I've been looking at a bunch ofdifferent things.
The hospitality is interestingRight now I'm actually looking
(52:22):
at.
So we're technically purchasethe lot creatively via the
trailer park community, which isprobably an uphill battle or
move it's not really a traileranymore, but move that property
to stay on the same lake, but toa lot that's.
There's a couple of lots thatare for sale on the lake, like
(52:44):
basically around the corner.
Couple lots that are for sale,um, on the lake, like basically
around the corner, um, but it'sbeen updated quite a bit that I
don't know if it's technically atrailer anymore that you can
move.
I mean it's.
We got a single car garage.
There's an, you know it'stechnically three bedrooms, not
two yeah, for us if it's liketied down, like on a foundation.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Then it's like financeable, gets treated like
real property and not with atitle.
Yeah, I don't know theintricacies of it was in or
whatnot yeah.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
So here it's just a title.
So so now another property thatI financed by land contract to.
So and my, my in-law, foundthat on Facebook and I you, I
actually used the the.
So the price that she wantedwas fair for the income that it
was generating via Airbnb.
So with that knowledge, andthen the knowledge that I
(53:39):
basically like it had to be anall cash deal, I explained to
her like hey, we'd be crazy tocome up with 185 000 in cash,
but we can come up with 65 000in cash if you can finance the
rest, but the bank won't gofinance it.
And then she's like well, talkto the bank that financed it for
me.
So I called them up, I evenemailed correspondent and then
(54:02):
so I I sent that to her likehey's, like hey, they're not
doing financing on on trailersanymore.
So she was kind of like, okay,well, since you guys are willing
to pay roughly what I'm askingfor it, yeah, sure, I'll finance
the rest for you.
Speaker 1 (54:15):
Your price, my terms.
Speaker 2 (54:17):
Yeah, so, yeah, so, ideally, if somehow I can get
this property on land whetherit's the land that it's
currently on or a different lotthen that increases that
property significantly up there.
I mean, you're talking it'sprobably worth 350 to 400 000 at
that point, um, so it's, it's aplay that would be like huge
(54:42):
for us as far as um.
I mean, we'd probably haveinstant equity of a hundred to
150,000, um just by owning theland, because then I could go to
any bank and finance it, payoff the land contract, put a
mortgage on it, um, and be donewith it.
Speaker 1 (55:01):
So, um so what I'm hearing you say is we're going
to have to have you back on hereto talk about land contracts
and your new Airbnb venture atthe lake.
But we're coming up on time andI just wanted to see if there's
anything we want to chat aboutreal quick before we have to
wrap it up.
Is there any books or podcaststhat you recommend?
(55:25):
They've been influential inyour like your journey, if you
will.
Maybe for those folks justgetting started or looking to
get a little direction, so thepodcast I listen to religiously
is Real AF with Andy Frazella.
Speaker 2 (55:42):
He is, I mean it's.
It's.
It covers politics, um, itcovers business, um, I know he's
gonna get back to mfceo, whichis where I originated that was
my favorite one, okay yeah.
So apparently he keeps hintinglike he's gonna drop it, I think
, sometime this summer.
Um, that is like whether youwant to do life.
(56:05):
I feel is can give youdirection and can kind of give
you a kick in the ass too, ifyou need it, um to to just go
out there and get it.
Uh, let me, there's I.
I just look, I mean there's,there's so many leaders eat last
(56:27):
was a great one.
Um, I don't know if, if, likewhere you are um, a lot of the
times our lieutenants andcaptains will eat last and I
always joke with them about itand uh, then you realize okay,
it's just, you know that'ssomething that comes from the
military and uh, that that was agreat book.
Speaker 1 (56:47):
Um, but uh, yeah we do that, and then the other rule
on my shift is the ambo creweats first now if they haven't
been back for three hours.
That's something we still stickwith, so yeah but other than
that that's.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
I mean, those are really the only, that's really
the only podcast that I reallylisten to.
Speaker 1 (57:09):
Bigger podcast without saying ours Number one.
Andy second Got it.
No yeah, I was listening toAndy's this morning at the gym
so I always like it.
I personally like the MFCOproject better than some of the
political tirades, but hey,there's always little nuggets in
(57:30):
there about business which Ireally enjoy, and I just like it
that he doesn't have to answeranybody and that comes across in
his messages.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
Yes, exactly, and that is huge to be able to just
speak your mind.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
Tyler you have anything.
Speaker 3 (57:48):
No, I was.
I mean, we all.
I love andy too.
It was funny.
I was just thinking I love theone that he just did with billy
gene because he doesn't have toanswer anybody and they just had
a real conversation, like twofriends having a real
conversation, and I'm like dude,this is like I think our whole
country could benefit from justhaving authentic conversations
like that, to be honest, becauseat the end of the they're still
friends.
They had differing views on afew things.
Is that the AI one?
(58:09):
It was AI.
It was.
That's the one.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
I think I started today.
Speaker 2 (58:17):
Yeah, the end gets pretty spicy.
Yeah because Billy'sAfrican-American, as am I, but I
I feel like I was standing morewith andy at the end of that
one, um, but but his buddywasn't, and I didn't get to this
part yet.
Yeah, so it's, it's, it's spicyand not like they were arguing,
(58:41):
but just it was good and at theend of the day, the crazy thing
which, again, maybe you don'tlike the political stuff but you
can take from that is like hey,there was two people that had
differing opinions and they bothacknowledge each other's
opinions without calling themnames or you know all the time
(59:02):
yeah, it was respectful.
Speaker 3 (59:04):
You could tell they were on the opposite side and
like dj was kind of in themiddle I feel like.
But like I was, like, oh, wecan actually talk about her yeah
, no, no to your point.
Speaker 1 (59:16):
Man like you can have differing opinions and still be
friends, which I thinksometimes people need reminded
of.
It's not a all or nothingapproach, but that's a whole
nother podcast.
So, mike, if somebody wants toconnect with you, they're in
milwaukee, wisconsin, up in thatneck of the woods.
Uh, where should they reach outto you, um, or follow you?
Speaker 2 (59:38):
uh.
So I'm on facebook.
Uh, bretna capital is uh likekind of my business page.
Otherwise, mike Lowry, you canlook me up on Facebook too.
It's global, so we're open tothe world, to the public.
I'm on Instagram a little bit.
I'll throw I try to throw likelittle nuggets and reels
(59:58):
whenever there's something on mymind, a lot of the times real
estate investing related, I'llthrow something out there and
then, yeah, if anyone's lookingto buy or sell in the Milwaukee
markets I'm also a licensedrealtor I don't won't take
advantage of you.
I'm in a unique situation wheresome realtors that hear this
(01:00:22):
will probably get a little likesome full time realtors will
probably get a little irritatedthat I'm saying this.
But real estate in that formdoesn't put money on or doesn't
put food on the table for mykids.
That's what the fire departmentdoes.
So I will be patient and listento what you want to get done in
(01:00:44):
real estate and truly assistyou in in helping that.
Sometimes I feel like, uh,consumers can be a little bit
swayed um, and and stuff can bekind of withheld um from the
consumer in in that regard.
So, um, I just like to doeverything with You're a
(01:01:04):
transparent, investor friendlyagent.
Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Correct Out there for you.
Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
There you go, you said it better than I did.
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
All right, Mike.
Well, it's been good having youon and look forward to having
you back.
Talk about land contracts andmobile homes at the lake.
Speaker 3 (01:01:23):
Yeah, for sure.
Thanks, Mike.
Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Yeah.
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