Will Pritchett Building Wealth with Rentals: One Firefighter's Journey to 40 Doors

Have you ever wondered how some firefighters manage to retire early while others work overtime until their last day? In this eye-opening episode, we're joined by Will Pritchett, a battalion chief who retired from the San Antonio Fire Department at just 43 years old after building a portfolio of 40 rental properties.

Will shares his 14-year journey from converting his bachelor pad into his first rental to creating a real estate empire that provided the financial freedom to leave the fire service on his own terms. What makes Will's story particularly valuable is how he systematically redirected overtime pay into real estate investments, creating a snowball effect that accelerated his path to financial independence.

The conversation dives deep into practical strategies that any first responder can implement, from using private lending at favorable rates to evaluating rental properties in today's challenging market. Will explains his evolution from focusing purely on cash flow to understanding the wealth-building power of equity, and how he's adapted his investment approach during periods of high interest rates.

Perhaps most valuable is Will's candid discussion about overcoming the naysayers in the firehouse who warned against real estate investing. As he puts it, "It's always a bad time to buy real estate, but buy it anyway." This perspective reflects the reality that waiting for perfect market conditions means missing opportunities that compound over time.

Whether you're a firefighter just starting your career or approaching retirement, this conversation offers actionable insights on breaking the overtime dependency cycle and building wealth through real estate. Ready to transform your financial future while still serving your community? This episode is your roadmap.

Links to books discussed in the episode

Debt Millionaire 

https://a.co/d/bSZTvpm

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
All right, welcome back to another episode of First
Responder Financial Freedom.
Today we've got Tyler, myselfand our buddy, will Pritchett,
who was introduced to me by myfriend, marco Barrio, and he is
a retired fireman from the greatstate of Texas, and this is
going to be interesting becausewe don't really know each other,
but it sounds like we have alot of things running through

(00:21):
the same vein.
So, will, thanks for coming onthe show and sharing what you do
.
Thanks for having me.
This is exciting.
Yeah, it's not too many weirdosout there that are firemen that
really get interested inprivate lending or real estate,
but you're within good companytoday.
So for those of us like myselfthat don't really know Will,

(00:43):
could you give us thethree-minute version of how you
got on the job, how you kind ofgot into real estate, and we'll
just kind of grab a little topichere and there and run with it.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Cool.
Yeah, my name is Will Pritchett, retired from the San Antonio
Fire Department After 21 years.
I retired as a battalion chiefabout three years ago.
I retired as a battalion chiefabout three years ago.
43 was my age barely I almostwas 44, but I'm proud of that.
That was kind of anaccomplishment for our family.
I got on the job.
My parents' family was alleducators and as a kid we had a

(01:17):
house fire and it was allvolunteers in the area I lived
in Didn't know you could make acareer as a firefighter, but I
was always fond of those guysbecause they saved part of our
house.
Years later I had guys that weretelling me they were going to
test for San Antonio FireDepartment and I was in college,
didn't know what I wanted to do, went and took the test and did
okay, got in and just loved it.

(01:39):
Graduated drill school aboutless than a month before
September 11th.
So I was a rookie.
September 11th occurred and Iwas like wow, I didn't know,
this is what firefighters did.
It was eye-opening and I thinkmore people became aware of
firefighting after that point.
They were just such a focalpoint of that operation and I

(02:03):
love the career.
I love being a firefighter.
I went to EMS, got, you know,paramedic and rode an ambulance
for several years, always triedto go to the busiest stations I
could to get the most experience.
Just love the excitement of thejob, made lieutenant was on an
engine company and then captainwas on the technical rescue team
for about five years.

(02:23):
Loved it and then I madebattalion chief and I stayed in
that position about five years.
It was a little too far fromthe action and, you know, didn't
love that part of the job asmuch but still loved the career.
I mean, my best friends arefirefighters.
I'm super proud of what I.
The time I served as afirefighter and started a meetup

(02:44):
group here in San Antonio tohelp other firefighters.
We'd be at a traffic accidentand these guys are like hey,
chief, I got a real estatequestion, we've got like four
lanes of the highway blocked offand I'm like that's cool man
and I can talk about it all day,but we should pilot traffic
move and then we'll talk at thestation, you know.
So I had a few guys that reachout and wanted to do stuff and a

(03:04):
lot of tire kickers, but a fewtook action and that was really
inspiring to be able to givethem some advice.
And then so we started thismeetup and we'd range between
about 20 and 40 guys.
Girls show up at a little tacohouse once a month and just have
speakers and network and teacheach other what we're learning.
And after a couple of years youknow the number of people

(03:27):
showing up would stay aroundthat range.
And finally enough people askedabout it that I opened it up to
the public and it just blew up.
That first month we couldn't allfit in the room.
We had cars getting towed.
I was like man, there's ademand for this.
So we were called Firefighters.
Investing in Real Estate wasthe acronym Real creative, I

(03:48):
know.
And when we opened it toeveryone, we called it Friends
Investing in Real Estate, ourlocal union, local 624.
Yeah, they let us use theirspace, their banquet hall,
because it does benefitfirefighters.
So they gave us a bigger spaceto host this thing and now we're
averaging like probably over ahundred people a month coming

(04:12):
out to this event and it's justall free.
We've got a few sponsors thathelp feed everybody and our
title company and it's just beenawesome.
So my wife and I started buyingrentals.
We started with my firstbachelor pad convinced her.
Like let's try this, it'll fundmy kid's college.
Now my kid's literally going tocollege.
We're going to his orientationtomorrow, so it's a reality.

(04:34):
Now let's come full circle andthere's a house with his name on
it to fund that no-transcript asmall part of it.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Awesome.
Well, there's a, there's a lotthere and you know your story
sounds similar to some of oursand our friends and it's
definitely exciting when youstart to see some of the guys
that might even be the ones thatwere poking fun at the whole
real estate thing.
Next thing you know they'reasking you questions.

(05:34):
I had to chuckle because I hada cop come up and ask me the
same basically question on thescene of a vehicle accident,
like about a rental property.
I'm like dude, now's not thetime, but you know it is cool
and, um, I love to just kind ofshare this world with folks, and
Matt Terrio I don't know if hestill has a podcast, but he used

(05:54):
to always say something thatlike real estates the last, like
great frontier, that theaverage guy or girl can still
make a good bit of money.
You know, maybe that's not astrue now with these kids
learning how to do TikTok andchat, gbt prompts and all these
things who knows?

(06:14):
But it's one of those thingslike the three of us, with a
couple hundred bucks and a goodattitude can still get started
and actually change thetrajectory of your financial
family tree, if you will.

Speaker 3 (06:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
So did you.
You started with your bachelorpad, so it was, I'm guessing,
maybe not necessarily purchasedwith the intent of being a
rental property, but youtransitioned that too.
And did you get started earlyon in your career, or was this
something you chose to do lateron in the fire department life?

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, good question.
I was about probably about 10years into my career, but early
in my career I did want to buy ahouse and I don't know why I
bought a four bedroom house fora single guy it's kind of dumb
Bought a couple and I, you knowI did everything wrong
financially.
One day I was sitting in thestation.
This guy's like hey, you'rethis Dave Ramsey guy.
And I was like no, but I'mworking a lot of overtime and I

(07:09):
don't know where it's going.
And then I was.
Once I started listening toDave Ramsey I was like, oh, and
now I know where it's going.
Like that taco house in thecantina.
Yeah man, I was a single guyhaving fun.
I had a boat, a couple ofmotorcycles, two trucks and a
four bedroom house and couldn'tfigure out why I was broke
Everything but the house wentdown in value that's the

(07:30):
standard firefighter kit.
Yeah, exactly, and I was gettinggood deals on all of it Good
deal on the truck, good deal onthe bike, and I was going broke
by it.
So learn about Dave Ramsey.
And so I bought the house andjust live there.
And then, when we got married,my my son is my stepson Actually

(07:50):
he's four.
When we got married and we'rebecause of Dave Ramsey the
positive is that I had gottenout of a hole and had some cash
saved so we were able to put adown payment on our new home and
didn't need the cash from thesale.
If we had sold, I think wewould have netted about $30,000.
And at that point that feltlike about a million dollars.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
That was the big amount of money.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
And I told my wife.
I said, hey, if we keep it,maybe someone else would pay it
down for us.
And then when our son's 18,that gave us about 14 years,
it's going to be paid down a lot, it's going to have appreciated
, I think.
And I guess I had already beenthinking about real estate and
she got on board with me.
She's like, yeah, let's try it.
And we just lucked out that wehad awesome tenants.

(08:33):
Like we didn't screen them, wejust lucked out.
If we've gotten a terribletenant, that person we might not
be talking today because theyleft the house better than they
found it.
All of the naysayers I'dlistened to for years that never
had rental property Some ofthem were realtors and they're
like, no, don't buy rentals,they'll trash your house.
And I listened to the wrongpeople for years before jumping.

(08:55):
So when Veronica and my wifegot on board, we took the chance
and then we lived in that houseand managed this rental for a
couple of years before we boughtanother one.
You know, it's like a train ittakes a lot sometimes to get
moving and then it buildsmomentum and so that was
probably 10 years in.
That was right at 14 years agowhen we turned that house into a

(09:17):
rental and another probablythree before we bought our
second.
Another two and you wereprobably five years into that
before we started treating itkind of like a business.
But our goal was 10 rentalsbefore I retired and I had about
a 20-year trajectory, so onehouse every two years and that
just sped up and took on a lifeof its own sort of what does the

(09:38):
portfolio look like?

Speaker 1 (09:40):
now we're at about 40 doors.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
A couple of those properties are like a fourplex,
a triplex, mostly singlefamilies.
In our market that's like a Bclass to C plus, I would say,
class property, kind of workingclass All around the San Antonio
market.
We don't have a state incometax but we have pretty high

(10:03):
property taxes, so that eatsinto cash flow.
We don't have a state incometax but we have pretty high
property taxes, so that eatsinto cash flow.
We've had increases ininsurance, just challenges.
But yeah, we're still looking.
We're looking to buy somelarger units.
We're under contract on aportfolio of about four houses
right now.
So we're still buying despitethe high interest rates.
And we do some private lending,mainly because we raised more

(10:27):
money than we had deals todeploy it on and private money
has been critical to our growthand to this day we're funding
rentals with long-term privatemoney and that's been one pivot
we've done to kind of adjust tothis market of higher interest
rates.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
And how does that look?
So if you want to talk about alittle bit of that, right, like
most of us, when we thinkprivate money or anybody
listening they're thinking okay,private money is used for flip
funds, bridge loans, things likethat.
Six to 12 month terms,depending on who you are,
probably 10 to 12 to 13%interest in a few points.
The conversation changes whenyou want to have private money

(11:09):
on a long-term AM.
I don't know if you're doing 20or 25, 30, and then what rate.
I mean and we talked about thisoff air but it's obviously a
very secure investment and theone thing that I've always held
is stocks can go to zero,barring something that I can't
think of right now.
I highly doubt real estatewould ever have zero values, so

(11:29):
I'm kind of curious, you know,do the rates change?
What does that look like?

Speaker 2 (11:34):
yeah, good question.
So I also thought of it as just10 12 month terms.
We stumbled into private money,originally talking to some
friends at church.
They'd lost money on a movieinvestment.
They were attorneys and they'relike we'd like to invest with
you.
So I'd heard of private moneyand just researched it and they
were our first vendors and itwas 10% and we've paid up to 13%

(11:56):
.
We never used hard money, it'salways been private.
But what I found just throughexperimentation is that these
people like getting paid, butsometimes if we pay them for six
months and we pay them off,they sit on that money for two
or three months.
So their yield went from 10% toeight to seven and then they
got to find a new deal, evaluatethe deal, and that's great

(12:16):
because their yields is highwhen they're working and if
they're willing to look fordeals, they can make a really
good return.
But on the other hand, ifthey've got a couple million
dollars or a few hundredthousand and they're comparing
lending to CDs, they're makingthem 2%.
I can offer them 7% and be inway above what they're getting

(12:37):
with their CDs.
They've got collateral.
In that case, what I would dois I'd use a stabilized asset
when I pay the high interestrate, the 10% that's for
something that looks like trash.
You know there's some riskthere, right?
Because I got to go in andrehab it and they're taking a
chance on the property and on me.
When I get a long-term loan kindof like the BRRRR strategy, but

(12:59):
instead of going to a DSCRlender one of my lenders is very
happy to make 7%.
He loves that.
If I can do it for five yearsand he doesn't have to rework
that money, he loves it.
So if I can do 7% interest onlywith him, not amortized, my
loan constant or payment islower than I could get with a
DSCR lender that's offering meseven and a half, seven and

(13:22):
three quarters plus originationpoints, plus every fee you can
think of, plus a prepaymentpenalty.
So I have found that interestonly loans give me a low loan
constant.
A 30 year AM.
The first several years isessentially an interest only
loan anyway.
So that's been kind of awin-win that we've pivoted into

(13:42):
as some of these lenders.
We were paying them for yearsand paying them off and paying
them and paying them off andthey're like, hey, what would
you pay me?
Give me just for a long-term,and we've settled in that six to
seven.
We've gone from six to sevenfor the long-term loans and
these are unstabilizedproperties.
There's already renters inthere.
They loaning at 65 to 70% loanto value.

(14:08):
They have first lien position.
They know they don't have tothink about that money for
several years and it's just beengame changer.
One more thing before I forgetthat really made me love private
lending was during COVID, wheneverything was haywire and we
didn't know friends were comingin.
It was our private lenders thatoffered do you need to skip
payments for a while?
We can make them up later.
We never took them up on that,but a bank's never going to do

(14:28):
that, you know, unless forced toright by government.
They were looking out for us,we were a team and they wanted
us to succeed and weather thestorm.
So I'm a huge, huge proponentof real private lending,
building relationships withpeople that want you to succeed,
and we've been lucky enough tobuild those.
Some of them are firefighterswho've just been good savers and

(14:50):
they've got some cash and you'dnever know it by looking at
them you know like they turn aranch on their days off and they
just stack up cash and theywant to lend, but they have a
side business.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
I think that is a great point, because the one
thing I've realized is there isso much money everywhere.
You know we look at it from avery scarcity mindset approach
in most scenarios and you justthink about the millions and
trillions and dollars that areall out there and you only need
one little sliver.
It's amazing how many peoplethat are probably already in

(15:24):
your circle of influence ordaily conversations that with
one or two conversations you'dbe surprised how much money you
can raise.
And a lot of guys on the job.
Exactly what what you said?
Um, yeah, I can think of ahandful of guys right now where
I'm just like you, you wouldnever know it, but here's

(15:44):
another hundred grand, here'sanother hundred grand and you
just yeah it's.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
It's so often not the person that looks wealthy.
You know, we've seen thatmillionaire next door idea play
out.
We joked, I mean this is kindof mean I guess, but at the RIA
meetings we'd be like, hey, thatguy that looks borderline
homeless is probably the richestguy in the room.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
Dude, a hundred percent.
I got the same guy.
He's got like half the goldencorral down his front of his
shirt, you know, and I'm like,yeah, you wouldn't know, but
that guy's got 70 rentals andthey're almost all paid off.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
I'm trying to earn the right to dress that way to
the rear.
I'm not there One day when Ishow up with food on my shirt
and flip-flops.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
There'll be signs, boys, that I'm rich.
That was like uh, you guys,have you guys ever heard of
fleetwood?
they make like rvs and yes, yeahso the owner used to live here
in southern california and I methim a few times and he had like
the walmart jeans on.
He would dude.
So I think he was a billionaireand dude was like he would
never in a million years thenicest guy and just unassuming.
But yeah, I want to say he had,like you know, like the

(16:49):
standard New Balance shoes, likethe white New Balance Standard
dad issue Nicest guy in theworld and you would have never
known that.
And that's the thing Mostpeople are unassuming, like you
don't really know it, and I wasgoing to, even though I'm in
this space and I know I'm likehow would anybody want to only
get six or 7%?

(17:09):
I would say for people that,listening, don't ever disqualify
a prospect on anything.
Right, that's any lead.
You're going to buy a house.
Why would they want to sell tome?
Well, they called.
There's most likely some reasonthat we don't know yet.
And six or 7%, you get thatevery single year.
It's interest only, so you getyour full principal back and you
do that on rinse and repeat andagain, it's secured by a hard

(17:30):
asset that most likely willnever go to zero.
It's an extremely safeinvestment.
So I love it.
I was just thinking.
I wanted to say that because Imyself was thinking, but it's,
don't ever disqualify theprospect.
My mom and uncle got into adeal and they're like oh yeah,
we're getting 6%.
I was like I would have paidyou at least seven or eight.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
I think you're right.
I think it's don't ever assume,have a conversation and listen
to that person's needs.
I don't think a new firefighterwants to get an investing
should invest at 6%?
Not at all.
But after that firefighter hasa hundred rentals and is looking
to.
You know, phase out, sell themon owner finance, lend money, do
something more passive that'stied to real assets and you're

(18:14):
looking at.
I mean, if you have a fewmillion dollars making 6% and
you don't sleep at night and youdon't have to work, it's
different phases of life,different objectives.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
Yeah, and the other thing I was going to say is you
talked about I don't want theaverage dude, or I say average I
don't mean that in like acondescending way Like the
person that's like well, I don'thave a million dollars or I
don't have a couple hundredthousand dollars, Start with
something.
You'd be surprised also assomebody that's borrowed money
where it's like they want tostart with twenty, five or fifty

(18:45):
thousand dollars and it'salmost like one toe in the water
.
Next thing you know, it's likeoh, by the way, I have this two
hundred fifty thousand dollars.
Can you do the same thing?
Like I have a guy again, youwould never know him to have
this kind of money.
He started with like onehundred and fifty thousand
dollars and at this point.

(19:06):
I think he's up to just under amillion with us.
I joke with my business partner.
I was like should we quit realestate and just do what this
gentleman does, Becauseapparently all he does is print
cash you?
Know, because it's like everycouple of months he's like, hey,
I got another 200.
Can you do something with it?
I'm like good Lord, right, youknow, but it started with just

(19:27):
uh, you know I, I use air quotessmall, smaller investment.
You know a tenth of what?

Speaker 2 (19:30):
he has with us now I hear that over and over.
Yeah, we've seen the same thing.
They start with it, they diptheir toe in, they try it and
then you start paying them andthey start trusting you.
In fact, this last long-termlender that wants to do several
more deals, he, he, you know themarket's been in kind of
disarray as we know right, thestock market, and he's like man,
I don't, I don't know, he'sretired from the department, he

(19:52):
doesn't want, he wants off theride, he wants steady.
He goes you've been paying mefor years, every month.
I like it.
How do I do more of that?
That's what he asked.
So he's not worried about thehigh upside and, as we mentioned
before the call, you knowsyndications have high upside,
high downside.
You know, I think debt orlending has lower upside but

(20:14):
much less downside.
And they're, you know, they'regood for different parts of your
life and different risktolerances.
But I've, I've never lost moneylending, but I have lost it in
syndications and in stock market.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yeah, I always.
I mean this.
The syndication thing hasobviously been a point of
challenge over the last we'llcall it year or two, but those
that are not familiar, could youjust kind of give, like the,
explain it to me Like I'm 10,what's a syndication?

Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yeah Well, let me try to do this.
I've only been a limitedpartner on syndications, but
basically I'm going to go buy a$10 million building and I'm
going to go raise $3 millionfrom individuals.
So we're all going to pool ourmoney and we're going to be the
equity participants in this deal, and you guys are going to each
give me a hundred thousand,along with 30 more friends or

(21:05):
whatever it comes out to, andand, and then we're going to go
get a bank loan.
So there's still a debt anddebt involved.
We're the ownership, but I'mthe general partner who's going
to run the operation, and youguys are going to sit on your
couch and send me cash, and I'mgoing to send you cash back
theoretically, and if I do agreat job, you might.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
They would be the limited partners, correct?
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (21:26):
in this example, you two would be my limited partners
.
I'd be the general partner andthere were.
There were a lot of taxbenefits that went along with
that as well for high incomeearners.
Um, lots of upside for a longtime but more risk because
you're an owner, you knowthere's still debt, and
sometimes variable rate debt.
So everything was going up andwe were slow adopters.

(21:48):
We got in late on thesyndication train and when we
did, interest rates started toadjust, projects did not look as
optimistic and they quit payingdistributions.
So with the syndication you canmake extremely high upside or
complete loss.
Like Tyler was mentioning.
It can go to zero, like thestock market.

(22:10):
And that's kind of what led meto doing more lending is I don't
need 30% IRRs with the risk ofa zero.
To me, if you take 100% loss,you go from 100,000 to zero to
make that up with another100,000, you don't need 100%

(22:31):
gain.
100% gain doesn't get you back.
In other words, if you or let'ssay you take a 50% loss, a 50%
gain doesn't get you back tozero.
Percent gain doesn't get youback to zero, you have losses
hurt.
I want steady upside every yearwith my wealth growing, so I am
a little bit conservative,potentially and some people's
books still have a ton of debton real estate.

(22:54):
Some people would say that'srisky, a few million in debt,
but you know, but that affordedme to buy more real estate.
So we're not big on consumerdebt but we use the heck out of
it for real estate purposes.
So anyway, I'm not againstsyndication.
I think they can be great forsome people.
We just happened to get in at abad time, kind of got burned,

(23:15):
so I got cold feet on it.

Speaker 1 (23:17):
Yeah, no, I think there's a lot of people going
through that feeling that youknow it's like eh.
I would rather make six or 7%versus the potential upside of
something I have a lot lesscontrol over.
Right, right, right.

Speaker 3 (23:32):
Yeah, so real quick too, and like we're always
trying to look out for that,beginning firefighter, first
responder, anybody to start.
So you said originally yourplan was to buy one door every
two years and that way by thetime you retired you would have
the sufficient amount ofproperties and you would be good
to go.
So you mentioned overtime too.

(23:54):
So I always tie this back toovertime.
The reality is where we workovertime to cover either
expenses or to have a little bitof extra money, and then we do
that throughout your wholecareer because it's nice, it's
comfortable, you make a decentamount of extra money, and then
you retire and the overtimestops and then you're like, oh,
this is what I'm going to get onmy pension.

(24:14):
If you have enough foresight andyou plan out in the long run,
and those I'm assuming those 10rentals in your head would put
you at a point to where, okay,this will at least cover what I
was making in overtime andconceivably there's no lifestyle
change in that and your cost ofliving under pension every year
you're just going to maintainstatus quo.
The reality is for most most ofus is you don't think 10 or 20

(24:38):
years ahead, you think threedays ahead and when's my next
four day, or if you're on aKelly schedule, that's, but
that's anybody in any industry.
I think we're not thinking, butyou have to do it now.
So A, was that why you had that10 rental goal, and then B,
let's kind of walk through,maybe like that beginning
process, things you've learnedand what enabled you to

(25:00):
eventually ramp up quickly towhere you were in a great spot
by the time you did decide toretire.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Cool, yeah, I am glad you asked this question and if
I miss a spot, stop me.
I think overtime was a big wasa big thing for me.
I saw a lot of guys working somuch overtime they were never
home and I thought it was sortof a shame.
Yeah, and sometimes it causedreal family problems and things
like that.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
First couple of years of my career.
I can go back and find thatstory and post it someday.
But yeah, I worked on anambulance.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
I worked every rat.
We call them rats.
I don't know where the termcame from an overtime shift.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
That's a great name for it.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, I would work every other day and I still had
nothing to show for it at theend of the year.
You know then those boats andpayments and stuff.
So I wanted to kind of breakthat cycle and then my son was
only with me every other, everyother week, and you want to have
an impact on somebody who youknow he's only legally my
stepson right, he's my son asfar as I'm concerned and I can't

(25:57):
be there for him half the timebecause he's at another house.
Then I'm gone a third of thattime plus overtime.
I'm not going to have an impacton this kid.
That was very important to me.
So at first I was hustling,working all the overtime after
we got that first rental becausewe're like we want to save up a
down payment for the second, wedid budget enough that every
overtime shift went into asavings account just for real

(26:20):
estate.
I also took the kind of extremestep of I quit contributing to
my 457, which is anothersupplemental retirement plan
some of you may be familiar with.
What did you say you did withit?
I quit contributing to the 457.
Let's say it was $400 apaycheck.
I started putting that in thesavings account, putting the
overtime checks in the savingsaccount, it would build up.

(26:42):
Then any little bit of cashflow from the rental went in the
savings account.
So it build up, and then anylittle bit of cashflow from the
rental went in the savingsaccount.
So it was like a savingsnowball.
And people are like you'recrazy, you got to do the 457.
There's benefits.
And I said, well, this is whatwe're focused on.
And I think sometimes the powerof focus is important.
I think diversification is goodfor protecting wealth and
playing defense, but if you'retrying to grow something,

(27:04):
sometimes you have to just focuson it.
And so we focused on saving updown payments because that's the
only way we need to buy realestate.
So between the overtime, the457 contributions and the cash
flow from one rental, it grew,grew, grew and we bought another
.
And, yes, the 10,.
I thought, well, if I'm livingon less, I'm already budgeting.
So I'm not expecting the wrapthe overtime shifts to pay me

(27:28):
when in retirement, because I'mnot, I'm not depending on that
to pay my truck payment.
I'm living on my base salaryand saving the rest.
So that was going to help thattransition eventually.
And then I knew real estate.
I just knew too many peoplethat were like, if I had that
first house I owned 20 years ago, imagine what it would be worth
today.
And that was just stuck in myhead like just hold stuff for a

(27:50):
long time.
So 10 was the goal.
It seemed like.
It seemed like a real stretchat the time.
But I thought we can do this.
You know, and later, as we, asmy wife, we had five or six
rentals and she was working abunch of hours, loved her job
too, but she's at high schoolfootball games, things every
night.
She's like we're going to haveto hire a property manager or I

(28:11):
can manage the properties andstay home.
She turned her focus on themanaging them.
It wasn't a wash at all, butwhen she quit we realized, okay,
well, yeah, she was making thismuch, but we're paying this
much in taxes.
How much is she really makingto go to work every day between
childcare and all these otherexpenses that we wouldn't have
if she stayed home and helpfocus on the business?

(28:33):
And that was a game changer,really.
That, and then learning aboutreal estate professional status
where she could take passivelosses to offset my active
income and reduce my taxes.
Like you, learn this as you goit's been 14 years of figuring
it out, but it starts to buildand you get more excited about
saving for that next downpayment.

(28:54):
And then you figure out how touse private money and you don't
need 50,000 to buy a house, youonly need 10 and maybe zero.
And you know you learn otherstrategies.
So I do think overtime is agreat tool that most first
responders have, but I think toomany get stuck on it as a way
to live instead of using it fora purpose.
And I kind of think offinancial freedom in stages.

(29:18):
One stage was when I never hadto work overtime, when Nathan,
my son, was with me and that wasa proud day.
Like I'm never going to workovertime, I'm only going to miss
shifts when you're away.
I'm only going to miss time athome when you're away other than
my normal shift.
And then I got to be there forthat and I'm really grateful for
that.
I made less money but I'm supergrateful for it.

(29:38):
I think finding out what's mostimportant to each of us is super
important.
Like I tell the people in mygroup like hey, you can have a
Lamborghini, but Lamborghini isyour thing, that's not my thing.
My thing's travel and time withmy family.
That's my Lamborghini, butfigure out what your Lamborghini
is.
And so I started to focus on Iwant to be with these kids, I
want to have time with them.
I don't want to regret it whenthey're gone and it's all too

(29:59):
real today, as my son's about togo to college.
Like you can't go back and redothat time.
You know I can hustle for thenext 20, 30 years if I want to,
but I can't go back to that time, and so I don't regret those
decisions.
And then, yeah, the focus.
It got to be fun, it got to bea game finding good deals.
We really enjoyed it, so westarted buying a couple of year,

(30:20):
three, four year.
Our goal this year is one amonth, yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
That's a good goal.

Speaker 2 (30:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:29):
What just?
There's a lot there and totallycan relate to the wanting
spending time with them and kindof the reason for all of this
even getting started in thefirst place, at least for me.
But for those out there it'slike, well, how do you even find
a good deal?
And I know that looks different.
As you just said, find yourLamborghini, everybody's.

(30:49):
What is a quote?
Good deal looks different.
What did you use as yourparameters to say, hey, this
might have some potential and itcan be.
You know, rule of thumb, backin the napkin math type stuff.
But, I get inquiries often andI'm just like, well, that house,
the rent wouldn't even coverthe debt service.

(31:12):
Like here's basically some goodrules of thumb for what I would
recommend if you're looking fora rental and what a quote deal
is.
So what did that look like foryou and how has that evolved?
A quote- deal is.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
So what did that look like for you and how has that
evolved?
Yes, starting out it was, youknow, with a traditional down
payment of about 20% could wemake $200 above PITI.
We weren't even setting asidefor repairs and maintenance just
$200 above PITI, which prettymuch equals zero cashflow.
You know, one thing we didlearn the hard way is you've got
a budget for repairs andmaintenance.

(31:46):
People debate what that numbershould be.
I'm in the camp of probablyabout 20%.
That's without hiring propertymanagement.
That's a self-managing.
We do 15%, but I think we havefavorable pricing.
If I was talking to a newfirefighter that doesn't have
long relationships withcontractors, I would start at
about 20% for repairs, vacancy,maintenance.

Speaker 1 (32:09):
Yeah, I always said like when you think about your
budget, no one ever wants toshow you vacancy on a pro forma,
but like an 8% vacancies at onemonth.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (32:20):
So, like it, I'm dealing with some stuff right
now where we're changing somestrategy and players and because
they were basically four monthsto get stuff rented, two months
to even show it, over a week toeven get access Once somebody
vacated, like this all eats atmy timeline and takes that 8%

(32:41):
and jacks it up to 16, 24, 32%,and it's like you don't realize
like now, theoretically, I haveto have it rented for the next
two, three years straight withno maintenance issues.
Just to get back to even Right,and I always say like finding
the deal is one thing, operatingthe deal is a whole, nother
thing.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
And we still self-manage.
Mainly for that reason.
We looked at it and we'rebootstrapping this thing I've
got.
If 10% of my gross income isgoing to go to pay property
managers, that's way more than10% of my net income.
That might be all my net income.
Like these deals you knowthey're not home runs, they're
not all those screamers you hearabout where it's like, man, I

(33:18):
just knocked it out of the parkand became financially
independent, like that.
You know we're scratching outevery penny we can and
self-managing.
And we thought, if we build upsystems which my wife is awesome
at systems she created thesesystems to make the management
simpler, to minimize vacancythey still vacancies.
I agree with you.
They eat you up.

(33:38):
Try to get long-term tenants.
Take care of the long-termtenants so they stay as long as
possible.
We always say if they're goingto buy a house, we're going to
encourage.
We always say if they're goingto buy a house, we're going to
encourage that.
But if they're going to rent,we hope they rent from us
because we've been good to them.
You know they're paying ourkids college fund, they're
taking care of us.
You know it's a, it's apartnership, um, let's see.

(33:58):
So I think in in that um in, inbuilding business, you have to
think about your expenses andunderstand what they are and
then evaluate them over time tomake sure you're being truthful
with yourself about thoseexpenses.
So we still self-manage.
We do have some VAs that helpus with that.
We figured man for 10% of ourgross income across this

(34:21):
portfolio.
We could hire a full-timeemployee and just in-house it
and hold them accountable to ourstandards.
So that's sort of thetransition we're in is, instead
of doing it ourselves physically, is having people to implement
our systems.
But yes, you've got a budgetfor expenses.
I would tell new firefighters,new first responders, budget for
expenses.
But it's always.

(34:42):
You're going to hear naysayersin this market.
I heard them every year since Istarted in before and my little
quote I came up with I think Icame up with it.
So it's always a bad time tobuy real estate, but buy it
anyway, because there's going tobe someone in the firehouse
that tells you today's aterrible day, dude.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Oh man, where's Tony?
Where's Tony Daniels?
You know him and him and I hadthis conversation all the time,
but no, it is, and that's whereyou got to just remember.
The guys are great, love themto death.
A lot of them I wouldn't takemarriage advice from.
A lot of them I wouldn't takefinancial advice from.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
Okay, you want to talk about pumps or ladders,
excellent resource.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
But just keep in mind , if somebody has not achieved
the financial of independencethat you're looking for, they
may or may not be theappropriate person to take that
advice from, even though, in myopinion, most of them are
probably doing it out of thewant to protect you so you don't
get hurt.
They don't want you to getsucked into the mousetrap and

(35:43):
then get hurt because you boughtthis real estate and it's a bad
idea and the toilet's going toleak and all this other stuff.
Right, I think they're doing itmaybe out of a place of um
trying to protect you, but attimes it's like well, yeah you
know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
So for sure you can't pay the kitty either, so that's
the funny thing too is, uh,yesterday I was listening to
steve trang and pace morby onthe distractor show and I hadn't
listened to him for a while,but it was like, towards the end
of the interview he actually helike put it in a good way.
He said he asked steve like, oh, like, do you speak chinese or
or another language?

(36:18):
And I forget what, what dialectit was.
But he said, yeah, he did.
He goes.
Well, he's like, think aboutthat, if you know that I don't
speak that, but you're talkingto me in that language,
expecting to get a favorableresponse.
Whose fault is it Yours or thatother person?
And he's like oh, it would bemine.
And it's the same thing.
We're talking to people aboutthese things, expecting them to
be as into it or on that samewavelength as we are.

(36:41):
And they're not.
And they are trying to protectus.
And that's why he wasadvocating getting rooms.
I know you guys both havemeetups getting rooms to where
people are all speaking thatsame language and and, and
that's what you want to.
You want to look at.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
And.

Speaker 3 (36:54):
Mike on the side.
He said that he used the 2%rule and for any bigger pockets
people, I feel like that's atleast where I learned at first
was the 2% rule, and then theyhad the 50% rule and then I
think now 2% has changed to 1%rule.
So just create a criteria,stick to it and that's how you
evaluate your deals and Will.
You mentioned earlier withhigher interest rates now for

(37:16):
rentals, if a deal makes sensenow on paper with the current
interest rates, and it's whenthey go down, not saying they're
gonna go back down to 2%, yourcashflow is going to immediately
increase.
And it also made me think atthat point.
Then I can refinance, lower mydebt, my monthly debt payment,
and then I don't have to squeezethose good tenants for 50 extra
bucks a month when it comestime to do rent increases, which

(37:38):
it looks good on paper when youincrease rent, but guess what?
You're going to have vacancy,you're going to have to get
everybody, the house repainted,everything fixed back up.

Speaker 2 (37:47):
So I just thought I had no, and if people are
waiting for those interest ratesto go down, I think that's when
the buyers are going to comeback in.
Mass Demand increases.
That increases prices.
If we want to have, if you'rewaiting for that perfect time
for prices to be low, interestrates to be low, rents to be
high it's never going to happen.
So if you get a deal that workstoday exactly what Tyler said

(38:09):
and then you can refi it later,it's going to be better.
It's going to be a base hittoday and it's going to be a
triple when you refinance it.
And I've been doing it longenough that I did have loans in
the fives and sixes that, afterthe COVID craziness and the
rates dropped into the threes,we were able to refi and those
deals that were base hits becameamazing Now.

Speaker 3 (38:29):
I'm stuck with like I don't want to touch that debt
because it's so cheap.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
I'll never get it.
I don't think I'll ever seethat again, but I do think I'll
do better than seven and threequarters that I just got my
house at.
You know, I think there will bea time where I reset that.
So you hear time and time againmarry.
So you hear time and time againmarry the property, date the
rate.
But I think you're on the righttrack there.
And back to what you're sayingabout firefighters want to
protect you.
They absolutely want to protectyou.
Their whole business is riskmitigation, weighing risk and

(38:54):
reward.
It's it always was kind offunny to me.
And these guys are like thatreal estate stuff's too risky
and I'm like you know you runinto burning buildings for
people.
You don't know that that'srisky.
This is money, it's not yourlife.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
And the example I use now with that is you know,
remove the heroic component outof it.
Just think about how risky itis to put your entire financial
livelihood in the hands of onemayor, one city council, a bunch
of elected officials that arealways trying to jockey the

(39:29):
budget every couple of years tomake it look rosy and like your
entire financial wellbeing is intheir hands to some extent.
Would I, would I rather have itin the hands of 40 renters,
where it mitigates my risk, orin one person that you know what
I mean?
Yeah, I do Frame it that way.

(39:50):
It's like well, yeah, that's agood point.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Or the guys would say I don't want to wake up at 2 in
the morning for a cloggedtoilet.
I'm like you wake up at 3 inthe morning for sillier stuff.
Every shift you're on duty Forless money.
This is something that couldmake you wealthy, and to that
fact, I've never once woken upin the middle of the night for a
tenant, not once.
There's no reason they need tocontact me.
They can call the on-duty guysif it's on fire or flooded.

(40:15):
Otherwise, I'll talk abouttomorrow.
You know so.
We're responsive, but you'renot going to wake me up Like
that's.
One thing I earned was my goodsleep schedule.
Now you know so anyway, that's.
The risk is unfounded.
But I think where it comes fromis the reason you guys can run
into a burning building isbecause you study fire science.
You study fires, you've gotexperience.

(40:35):
No one teaches people aboutfinancial education in schools.
Most of our parents didn't knowto teach us and in my case, my
parents are brilliant, just notin personal, finance or business
, so they couldn't teach me whatthey don't know and schools
don't teach it.
So how can we teach our kidsand these younger firefighters,
just like y'all, are doing thispodcast?

(40:56):
hey there's some stuff you canlearn.
There's groups you can go towhere people will tell you quote
unquote trade secrets.
They'll tell you what workedfor them.
That's what I love about mygroup is these people.
If they're holding backanything, I don't know it,
because they'll tell me whatmarketing system they use, how
they get their deals, how theyfund them.
They'll share everything.
So there are people out therethat want to help.

(41:16):
You just got to tap into it ifyou want it.
But I think the reason it feelsrisky is they don't speak the
language.
Yet, like Tyler was saying,they don't speak the language.
When I first went to my firstREIA meeting, someone said like
LTV, you know these acronyms.
I didn't know what the hellthey were saying You're like
dude.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
is it that month already?

Speaker 2 (41:34):
You know, you didn't even know.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
It was yeah, it was just very overwhelming, and I
totally agree with that.
So there's so many resources.
So there's so many resources.
And now I feel like withpodcasts, youtube, tiktok,
whatever you want to use, justfind a couple people and follow
them.
If you sit there and takeadvice, you know you listen to
Grant, he says this.

(41:56):
You listen to Dave Ramsey hesays that.
Find somebody that kind ofaligns with your values or your
mental model and just followtheir advice.
Like you said, pace more, belike, if you want to be all into
sub two, just follow his stuffand go with it.

Speaker 3 (42:10):
If you want to pay cash for everything.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
Follow Dave Ramsey syndicate, follow grant, but
follow somebody.
That's further ahead andthere's so much information out
there.
You don't have to take it forgospel, but you can use it as a
roadmap and get there a heck ofa lot faster than just waiting
for the local uh meetup everysingle month like there's just a
ton of stuff out there.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
It really comes down to what you want to do yeah,
yeah good, I don't know, andthen create.
I think when you go to the meetup and another Mastermind I'm in
right now it's go there withintention.
I'm going to go network, don'tbe a wallflower and then nurture
those relationships.
I think about the that grouptext message that we're still a

(42:52):
part of Mike from fuel no joke.
I think if I have a question,thousand percent guarantee I can
put it in that group and withinmaybe less than two sometimes
it's a well yesterday, less thanfive minutes.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
Yeah, we had, and, dude, sometimes it's a well
yesterday, less than fiveminutes.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
yeah, we had, and for most super reputable person
like I know who that person ishe used to also be in fuel.
It's like dude and you don'tthink that's valuable, right?

Speaker 1 (43:19):
it's amazing, man yeah and I always joke like I
don't know much about a lot ofthings.
But if I need to solve an issuelike this has been really a
prime example, as we've movedinto storage, investing.
Storage is real estate, butit's also, as AJ Osborne says,
it's just as much of a businessas it is, a real estate asset,

(43:43):
like it's a daily living,breathing every day.
There's churn.
It's not like the 12 monthrenter typically, which is good
and it's bad.
But there's a lot of things, aswe've moved into that, that I
wasn't quite sure how to handle.
A lot of it.
I was able to solve bylistening to a podcast or
reading a book.
But now if I have a question, Ihave a couple of folks that I

(44:05):
can reach out to and if theydon't know, they will put me in
touch with the person that doesknow.
And it's that that networkeffect is super, super valuable,
I think.
And you look at folks that havetaken advantage of it and you
know I'll use Tommy as anexample.
That's somebody that kind ofgot started, was working the
streets of Philly as a cop, goesfull bore into one component of

(44:28):
real estate and has just gonethat direction.
And now look at him.
You know I'm not saying thiswas the result of his success.
It was his hard work and doingthe work itself.
But you know it's, it's all outthere which is I don't know.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
No, it is, and people want to help you out there,
which is I don't know?
No, it is, and people want tohelp you.
If you.
A few things on that.
Going to the RIA and not beinga wallflower.
I went one night and there was afocus group for rental property
that's always what we wanted todo and the MC.
We said, hey, we're going to doa elevator pitch tonight
competition, you know, see whohas the best elevator pitch?
And I had been quiet and I waslike you know what I care about

(45:04):
being with my family, and thisis a night away from my kids.
If I'm going to be here, I'mgoing to talk, like get off the
chair.
And so I was like I'll do itand just got me out of my
comfort zone.
But from that day on peopleknew like, hey, that guy likes
Reynolds or that's Will.
And little by little, you know,I started to meet people and
realized they were, they werewilling to help me, just like
you said, I could call them.

(45:25):
Hey, I don't know how to dothis or what would you recommend
, or is this a good deal?
People want to help andsometimes I have found sometimes
the best thing to do is to justtell people like, hey, I'm new
here, I don't know much aboutreal estate, but I'd like to
learn.
People want to help in general,and if you're in groups where
they don't want to help, you'rein the wrong group.
But I want to be around peoplethat don't see us as competitors

(45:46):
but collaborators, and in ourmeetup we funded millions of
dollars back and forth becausethis guy's got money, this guy's
got a deal, this one's got.
I think last month we had onewhere a wholesaler made money
because of the meetup.
The guy that was selling hishouse to the wholesaler was
buying from another guy in themeetup, so he got to do his deal

(46:06):
, I got to loan on the deal.
Everybody got something out ofthat one deal because we were
talking and communicating andnot seeing each other as
competitors but collaborators.
I tell people when I fly intoSan Antonio I'm always reminded
of how many houses there are,how much opportunity there's way
more than I could ever handle.
There's plenty of opportunityfor all of us.

(46:28):
So I like to be around growthminded people that believe in
abundance.
It's out there if you want it,and let's just help each other
get there.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
And it's funny you say thatabout the meetup, because we've
we do a portion of our meetupwhere it's success stories and
pitches at the beginning, and wehad one where it's like the
deal came from a wholesaler inthe group, the buyer came, we
loaned on it, then it got listedwith this.
I mean it was literally like alittle in-house commune thing.
But, and exactly, you said youhad roughly 40 units.

(46:59):
I had I don't know what SanAntonio, how many people are
there use units?
There are, but let's just say amillion.
You only need a little sliver.
40, 40 units is nothing to jokeabout, but it's also a sliver
right of the population and thehousing stock in that market, so
it's like there's plenty to goaround.
Yes, we're not black rock,right, so so, um, how did I know

(47:23):
we're coming up on time?
In a nutshell, did we ever hiton how you evaluated how much
rent versus purchase price?
I know you said you did the 20%down model.
Yeah, what does your model looklike now?
I mean, I know that's probablyevolved.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
In the sweet interest rate times we were leaving zero
money in deals.
We're doing the BRRRR strategywhich, if anyone isn't familiar,
you're basically buying a houseand I say flipping to yourself.
Instead of taking your profitand paying tax on it by selling
it, you just leave that as sortof your equity in the deal and
sometimes you can get back allof your money and have a cash

(48:00):
flowing rental.
It's a lot harder with theseinterest rates, so we are
leaving typically probably about10,000 in our single families
right now.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
But you're still phenomenal when you think about
a cash on cash return.

Speaker 2 (48:12):
Hell yeah, If I can get a house that's worth
$150,000, $200,000 for $10,000of my own cash and some sweat,
that's a pretty good deal and Istarted looking a lot more.
At the beginning it was allabout the cash flow, all about
the cash flow.
And a good friend of mine, Todd, one day said, have you ever
calculated your net worth?

(48:33):
And I was like no man, I'mtrying to get $200 a door.
And we looked down and thatfreaking pile of equity had
happened while we were focusedon cash flow.
And so now I look at it like ifI have $5 million portfolio,
regardless of how much debt's onit, if I even have a 3%
appreciation rate, how muchequity am I gaining every year,

(48:55):
tax-free, in wealth?
If I have a $10 millionportfolio and it goes up by 3%,
that's $300,000 of wealth out ofthin air just by holding and
maintaining and managing theseproperties.
So my perspective has changedover time.
I think cashflow is still veryimportant.
That's how you keep yourproperties to ride them into the

(49:16):
future.
But in San Antonio it's hard toget these deals that oh, $1,000
a door or something.
It's just very rare and I'm notgoing to say it doesn't happen,
Very rare.
So the cash flow is great.
We reinvested all of it for atleast 10 years, over 10 years
and then.
But the equity gain is what'sreally been life changing.

(49:37):
Once you have some equity, youhave options.
You can go buy somethingdifferent, you can liquidate,
you can do you know you can docash out refinances, which are
tax-free money.
I tell people, if I can pull$100,000 out of a rental, how
much would I have had to earn inthe department to pay taxes and
actually end up with $100,000?
So learning how to get yourmoney tax-free, how to defer

(49:59):
taxes, the tax game has been anew part of it.
So, yeah, it was all about cashflow $200 a door at the at the
beginning.
Now it's.
Can we leave 10 to 15 000 andhave a positive cash flow
property?
Because I know eventually I'llrefi that, I believe, and make
it even a better deal.
So I'm still just trying tostack up equity um with positive

(50:20):
cash flow.
You know, honestly, at thispoint, if it'll cash100 after
all expenses and I'm in it forless than 10 to 15, I'll
probably take it.
But at first, you know, I meanwe're all limited by the capital
we have available and gettingcreative the private lending has
helped with that.
You know, to come in and buythese deals and make them cash

(50:40):
flow at a 7% interest only, likejust trying to get creative and
make things work, Still pickingup equity with each deal, you
know, wanting to create equityat every step, yeah, no, and
it's it's.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
it's one of those things.
My deal metrics have changedover time because often what
looked really good on paper or aspreadsheet in reality wasn't
as quite as good as you thoughtit would be.
So historically, when I wasbuying closer to those 2%
properties like they were inthose C to D areas, if I had to

(51:16):
pick now where?
Now I'm fine if it's called a1% deal but it's in a B minus or
B plus area, I would ratherhave that all day long because
your turnover costs and just theclientele and all the things
that I just am not interested indealing with much anymore.

(51:37):
You know it changes, but foranybody that's listening, like,
just get started.
Man, like he said he boughtthis first house, it had four
bedrooms, like that, that's the,that's the way to go, or do
something like that, becausethen you get, you could be in
that house for nothing and youcould rent the bedrooms to your
coworkers or your buddy.
That's a cop or you know.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
I lived in a four bedroom house for all those
years.
I should have had guys on theother shift living in other
rooms, paying for that for five,six years.
And you know, talking aboutaction taking, just that just
made me think about you know,you can learn all this stuff.
All these books behind me arebooks that I love and I was the
guy that would like read thehell out of these books.
And finally, my wife's like,hey, like I don't want to hear

(52:22):
another word about till we buy arental, another rental Like we
had the one.
I was excited and I'm readingYou're never going to know it
all.
You want to take due diligenceand learn as best you can, but
you have to take action.
So she gave me that nudge.
And you know one story about afireman that's really cool my
friend Brad.
He reached out to me duringCOVID and I was writing this
blog.

(52:42):
He's like, hey, man, I read allyour blog posts and I was like,
shit, nobody reads that garbage.
That got my attention already.
This guy's crazy, he's to writeall that nonsense.
And he's like, hey, I'd like tolearn about real estate and I
just threw it out there.
We were early in COVID with themasks and everything.
I was like, hey, we're going tolook at a property today at

(53:02):
three and I was like he's notgoing to show up.
Well, he showed up early.
That dude, to this day,probably has over a dozen units.
He had owned a house.
He was willing to take the leapof moving out of it and living
in a fourplex that he boughtwith an FHA I think it was
financing house hacked thefourplex, so he went from a
house to automatically fiveunits total and then his fiance

(53:27):
got a multi-unit and they'vejust and he took action, like at
a scary time in the market andthose stories are what just
excite me.
Like it's there, this dude, ina matter of what?
Five years, since 2020, hasaccumulated these rentals Cause
he was willing to get a littleuncomfortable and take advice
and ask questions.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
You know absolutely man and yeah, I love those
stories because it's like youdon't, it doesn't need to be.
You don't even have to leavethe job, like I think a lot of
times we try and sell that orpeople try and sell the dream.
Like you have to quit your job.
Do this full-time type thinglike that was never my goal when
I started.
My goal was, like you said, tonot have to trade time for money

(54:10):
and work overtime all the timeand you don't need to go build.
You don't even need 40 units,go out and buy, like you said,
one every other year.
If you retired with 10 houses,even if they weren't all paid
off but paid down and just alittle chunk equity in each one.
Like you don't realize how thatlike little action, step over

(54:32):
time, is just going to change somuch you can't even really
comprehend it.
At that point I guess I shouldsay I didn't realize that.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
I didn't either, you know.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
Whenever I say you, I really just mean me.
I didn't realize it.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
John Schaub wrote that Building Wealth One House
at a Time and I've gotten to seehim a few times at the Masters
of Real Estate some events welike to go to and learn from old
timers and he's got, I think,maybe 20 units, if that.
This is a guy that wrote a bookon real estate and has been
highly successful.
He culled his properties downto, I think, 20.
And he's living a great lifewith, like I think they're all

(55:13):
paid off now.
But you're right, it doesn'thave to be massive.
It all has to do with yourgoals.
You shouldn't build something,you shouldn't buy 40 units if
that doesn't align with yourgoals, but four.
One of the podcasters Ilistened to said if you buy four
, it will change your life, andI kind of believe that.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
Michael.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
Zuber, what was?

Speaker 3 (55:31):
that, that's Michael Zuber he does that one rental at
a time?

Speaker 1 (55:35):
yeah, you got it, yep , yep.
Well, now that we've done agreat job for 55 minutes
convincing anybody that hasn'tbought a rental property to buy
one, let's wrap it up.
And if there's one book orpodcast or something you'd
frequently recommend or wouldrecommend to this audience, do

(55:55):
you have anything?
Obviously, you have a bunch ofbooks behind you, but, yeah,
what would you recommend if it'slike, hey, download this on
Audible or listen to thispodcast or whatever it is, if
you're looking to get started ortake the next step to grow your
portfolio?

Speaker 2 (56:08):
Man.
I took some notes on this,thinking about this interview
and there's several I like, letme say one series of books
that's not specific to realestate but helped me think about
money is George Antone.
He has this little trilogy it'sthe Banker's Code, debt,
millionaire and Wealthy Code.
Really kind of got me thinkingabout the debt side, the paper

(56:32):
side, how you can use bothequity and paper, and I think
I'm still every day trying tolearn more about how the paper
side of this business.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
Yeah, I've read Banker's Code but I've never
heard of those other two, sowe'll have to get the spelling
of those and add those.

Speaker 2 (56:46):
Yeah, they're real quick reads.
I'm not affiliated, I don't payfor his coaching, I have
nothing to sell.
Please don't think that I havesomething.
I just was kind of eye-opening.
He tells it in a realdigestible way.
I've read them multiple times.
After doing this for a lot ofyears, I was still like, wow, I

(57:13):
never thought about it that way,so that was cool.
Another one that I think ismore mindset and finding your
why, or your Lamborghini, if youwill, is Life in Air.
It really talks about some guybuilds a big machine to build
this.
He wants a mansion, he wantsall that.
Another guy's really happy witha small portfolio, a small
house, no headaches.
I like that one.
I like Coach Carson out ofSouth Carolina, chad Carson.

(57:35):
He has that approach that Ithink would be.
I think it'd be really good fora lot of firefighters, that,
like he calls it, like small andmighty investors, like you
don't have to have a 40 units ora hundred, or you can have four
, you can have two.
And I like that approach.
Like let's not get ahead ofourselves, let's just do one and
see how that goes and thenanother one.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
Yeah, I steal this quote often and it's just go as
far as you can see, and onceyou're there you'll see a little
bit further.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
Yes, I just love that mindset, you know.
Yes, we don't know.
I, I, yeah, I mean what.
Who knows what?
The next thing we stumble uponand want to explore, um, and it
can be overwhelming.
Like you, I think, mike, youwere saying like you can listen
to grant cardone, you can listento dave ramsey.
At some point you need to havesome focus and try something

(58:20):
long enough for it to work orfail, rather than bouncing from
thing to thing constantly.
You know, uh, find somethingthat intrigues you and then find
someone that does it well andlisten.

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Yeah, exactly, and man, there's a lot of good stuff
in there and we could probablytalk for another 40 or 50
minutes just about those items.
But if folks are listening tothis and they're in the San
Antonio area, where should theyreach out and find more
information about friendsinvesting in real estate or

(58:53):
whatever else you have going on?

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Yeah, probably my Facebook's where I share most of
that stuff.
Just, will Pritchett, you'llfind me in San Antonio and we
don't even have like a realdedicated Facebook page for the
group yet.
We just kind of have an emaillist.
People, can you know what youcan email me if you'd like to be
on our newsletter list where Ido send out my little blog posts

(59:15):
?
It's will at home again,propertiesnet.
Uh, that's properties, plural.
Uh, will at home, again,propertiesnet.
I'd be happy to add anyone thatwould like to just read what my
thoughts are on the currentmarket, what we're doing to
pivot, to keep buying, even whenit feels discouraging at times,
and just lessons we're learning.

(59:36):
We don't charge for anything wedo.
We don't have anything to sell,but we do, like you guys, we
love to just share this.
But we do like you guys, welove to just share this.
Hey, regular people can stillreach the American dream even
now, even amidst all thisuncertainty.
So anything we can do to helppeople, particularly first
responders, I mean, you canreach out to me directly and I

(59:59):
will do what I can to help you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
Yeah, definitely, yeah, definitely.
If you don't mind, post thatnewsletter link in the Facebook
group, because there's peoplethat listen to this.
But some people don't listen.
They participate in theFacebook group and vice versa.
Ok, I sure will.

(01:00:25):
I was starting a privateFacebook group, so the people in
the group are an excellentresource.
It basically just takes yourroom and makes it virtual so
that in between meetings.
Obviously you don't have folksattending every month every
meeting, but it's a great place.
If I'm like, hey, I need acarpet guy here or anybody have

(01:00:46):
a recommendation for this.
It's a.
It's a great little ecosystemand we control it to the extent
that we don't want a bunch ofscammers and stuff like that in
there.
So we approve every singleperson that goes in and if we
see people doing bad stuff,we'll just yank them out.
But it's a great place forpeople in your facebook or in

(01:01:06):
your meetup group to like, stayconnected, and you can drop your
newsletter, so on so forth.
It's a super low cost.
I mean, it's free.
Yeah, granted, you're buildingit on rented ground with it
being on facebook, but um it, itmade us look like geniuses
because we started it rightbefore COVID, so, like whenever

(01:01:27):
we couldn't meet in person, wewere doing stuff on there and it
just allowed it to maintain alittle bit of momentum during
that time and, in hindsight, hashelped out tremendously with a
lot of things.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
No, I love that.
I think you know.
One thing I did when it was afirefighters only is we had a
group meet page or group meetthread, I guess, where we could
ask and we posted a contractorlist and I haven't opened that
up to the larger group.
Maybe I should now.
But people had to have vettedthat roofer, vetted that
framework, vetted that whatever.
And then you could see whovetted them and recommended them

(01:02:01):
.
And our thought was if thesecontractors also know they're
getting business from the group,they're going to give favorable
pricing and be responsive andgive good service because they
know they're going to get morebusiness from the group.
And if they're not, we'd takethem off the list.
If we got bad reviews we'd pullthem.
So it was mutually beneficialfor the group, you know, to find
the contractors and they couldask the question or they could

(01:02:22):
go straight to that spreadsheetand see hey, we'll recommend
this.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Well, we don't have the list, but we have the same
concept per se, and it's justbasically the market dictating
it.
And if somebody's screwedsomebody over it's going to get
mentioned there.
Vice versa, if they're good,they get a referral out of it.
And the pricing and whatnotjust kind of becomes a byproduct
of them knowing they're fromthe i81 investor group.

(01:02:48):
So it's, it's super easy tostart and might be beneficial to
your group.
No for sure that's been on thelist.
I appreciate that tip yeah, soanything else or else uh man.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
No, I appreciate y'all having me.
I just want to encourageanybody that's been thinking
about it.
Don't think there's going to bea day where everybody's going
to say now's the time.
It's not going to happen, it's.
You know.
Like I said before, it's alwaysa bad time to buy real estate,
but buy it anyway.
Try to buy good deals in themarket you're in.
Try to learn how to manage themand operate them well, and for

(01:03:23):
me, it's holding for the longterm.
We do flip every now and then.
I'm not against that.
I just don't want people tosell everything.
The real wealth is by holdingthings, holding assets that go
up in value and you turn aroundand you've got a sizable chunk
of equity one day.
So I just want to beencouraging that you can do it.
If you're listening to this,like you can do this, keep

(01:03:44):
listening to this podcast.
Listen to people who are doingdifferent things in the space.
Learn about money and how itworks.
That's my main message.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
Awesome.
Well, this has been great.
I do want to mention one thing.
I don't think very many peoplewatch our video.
I think it's mainly audio.
My essay is still somewhat high, even though I've been off the
job for a few years, and Willhas been taking notes the entire
time and it looks like he hadpre-prepared things that he
wanted to go over, and I justwant to say that's a very good

(01:04:18):
indicator of success.
So he's intentional with whathe's doing?

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
I love watching it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
I think you're the first guest.
I've seen that's actually doneit.
I think you're the first guest.
I've seen that's actually doneit and I can see you working
through it.
I don't want to put you on thespot, I just want to say it's
not an accident that he is doingwhat he's doing and he is where
he is.
I was taking notes today too,so I was writing down on my
phone stuff thank you, Iappreciate that yeah, you got it
.
Thank you for being on.
I still love to watch everylittle detail.

(01:04:44):
It's still my favorite thingone of the things about being on
the job is like it's reallychallenging people watcher I'm a
daughter, I was like, hey,that's between them.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
But yeah, if I can help in any other way with what
y'all have going, we can go downthe wormhole of something else,
but but this has been a lot offun.
Really appreciate y'all havingme.

Speaker 1 (01:05:08):
Awesome, We'll hang on a second, but we're going to
wrap this up and uh, thanks fortuning in and we look forward to
speaking every with everybodynext week.