Trusting Your Gut Even When You're Scared with Jeanne Sparrow | Ep 215 - Leadership Purpose with Dr. Robin

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Welcome to the Leadership Purpose with Dr. Robin podcast.
I'm your host, Robin L Owens, PhD. I'm a college
professor. And when I'm not doing that, I am teaching others
how to find and stay in alignment with their true purpose.
And this is where we talk with women who've made bold career
transitions in search for more meaning and purpose in

(00:24):
their work. So if you're feeling that pull toward more meaning and purpose in
your work or just curious about what's possible when you
pursue purpose over position, then these
conversations are here to encourage, inspire,
and guide you. Okay. Let's get started.
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Leadership Purpose

(00:47):
with Dr. Robin podcast. I'm so glad you're here and you're listening to the
podcast. I say it all the time, and I'll continue to say it because we
wouldn't have a podcast if you weren't listening in. And because you listened
in so faithfully, you helped us get ranked in the top
5% of all podcasts globally according to Listen
Notes. So thank you for doing that. And if you would go ahead and

(01:09):
rate, review, subscribe to the podcast. It'll help us keep
going. Alright. Now today and I'm really
excited. I'm really excited about our guest today. I'm talking to
Jeanne Sparrow. She's an award winning speaker, author,
Fortune five hundred consultant, and seven
time Emmy winner. She's author of the book

(01:30):
Fearless Authenticity, Lead Better,
Sell More, and Speak Sensationally. Oh my
goodness. I have a hundred questions already. But let
me just say a little more about Jean. She has three decades of award
winning work in media, and she's reached more than
500,000,000 people. Yes. And she's

(01:52):
host her own daily TV talk show for seven years, co
hosted daily radio shows with giants like Steve
Harvey, George Wallace, and she's interviewed people like
Kevin Costner, Halle Berry, Jamie Foxx, and more.
And one of my favorite things that I hope we get to talk about more
is she hosts the weekly radio show, and so we'll hear more about that. I

(02:14):
can go on and on. But let us now welcome Jeanne Sparrow.
Thank you so much for having me, Robin. I appreciate it. Dr. Robin.
Let me call you by let me call you by that well earned honorific.
Okay. So for most people, I say just call me Robin, but for you, it
sounds like it means something, so you can call me whichever you like. Thank you,
dear. Thank you so much. It's nice to meet you. I love that a Robin

(02:36):
and a Sparrow are getting together and doing bird things.
Come on now. That's a poetic mind that can make that kind of
connection and think about that. Alright. So let's just jump in. You heard me give
your sort of official introduction, but tell us in your own
words, two things. A little bit, whatever you wanna say about you,
and then kind of an overview of the work you're doing, and then we'll get

(02:58):
more into it. Okay. I'll go backwards. If I
had to say there was an overview or a theme to what I
do, all I know how to do, Robin, is talk.
That's all I've ever done. That's all I've ever all
all I am doing and probably all I'll ever do.
I have just found the different ways

(03:20):
that talking means something. So whether that's, you
know, radio and television media, whether that's, you know,
speaking, whether that's teaching, whether that's doing
training and consulting, the core of all of that
is talking. I find great
satisfaction in hearing people's stories, telling

(03:43):
other people's stories, telling my own. And I
believe that that is what keeps us connected and keeps the
world moving around. And that's what fearless authenticity,
the book is all about. So that's my latest thing I've added to
the talking piece. And so I'm talking through the words that are on the
page, which is a little bit different, but still in the same

(04:05):
vein. And if I had to say anything about
myself, it would be that I
am inspired by other people when
they share their stories and tell the truth.
Yes. Yes. Alright. Say more about telling the truth,
and we see authenticity is a theme for your book. So tell us about

(04:27):
that, what you mean by that. So fearless authenticity
means, something very particular to me, and I chose those words
very intentionally. I say fearless
because being authentic and being, you know, your true
self in whatever way you see
fit takes a lot of courage. And

(04:49):
the word fearless, I think, is a misnomer in some ways. So
it's it's one of those odd words because fearless doesn't mean without
fear. It just means you do it anyway. You do it
scared. And I think a lot of times, the chances that we
take in life, whatever they are, involve us
doing things even though we're scared of them. But at

(05:11):
the same time, I know you've heard that saying that if your dreams don't scare
you, then they're not big enough. Yes. And authenticity,
I emphasize authenticity because what I have learned through my work
and just all the people I've encountered and interviewed and
talked, the people who are the most successful and satisfied
in life are the ones who lean into who

(05:33):
they truly are. And I believe that when we
do lean into that, either we find our
purpose or it finds us and we're able to fulfill the thing
that we were put here on this earth to do. And that's really what fearless
authenticity is about. And the more we speak the truth about
who we are, what our experiences are, or at least

(05:55):
understand the value in that and move with authenticity
because sometimes full disclosure is not appropriate
or recommended, right, or safe. But when we
can move with authenticity, when we can stay true to ourselves and
that listen to that little voice that's in our gut and in our
heart that tells us we're on the right path, then we will

(06:17):
eventually come out on top. Yes. Yes. And,
you know, I'm just over here shouting inside with
joy, and I resonate with what you're saying naturally, which is why we're having
this conversation. But I have not heard anybody else articulate it in the
same way that you did because for me, and you know this
podcast is leadership purpose and what I teach people is how

(06:39):
to connect with their purpose and to not only connect
with their purpose, but to always make decisions so they stay in
alignment with it and have fulfillment. And so I've done that,
and so I teach others to do that, and that's my definition of
purpose. In fact, I did an episode, by the way, listener or
who's watching listening or watching, episode two zero nine,

(07:02):
I talk about this. How my definition of your
true purpose is to be your authentic self and how to do
that. So you and I are on the same wavelength. That's right. I love it.
And that's it. Yes. Not just the birds, but we got
the authenticity and purpose coming together. Alright. So
now tell us about your career journey. Let me give you a little context while

(07:24):
you're thinking about it. Think about somebody who is in a
career and they, by everybody else's definition,
is success on paper. But they're feeling like, you know, I'm
not feeling this has any purpose or meaning for me. There must
be something else. It's in their back of their mind, and that's why they're
listening to the podcast, and they're just trying to get some direction.

(07:47):
So I thought let's have these conversations from people who've been
there, then it can inspire them as they're on their
way. So this is the first thing that popped in my mind when you talked
about that person because every time that
I approach becoming that person, I move
on. I am somebody who has had

(08:08):
a wide range of things as you heard in my bio of things
that I've done that, yes, have a theme that connects them to. But the
reason why I've explored so many different aspects of
this thing that I do is because when I get tired of doing something, when
I get bored, when I get to a point where, I
get I I don't even know how to describe it, Robin. It's kinda like an

(08:30):
itch, but it's not really an itch. It's more like
just a a discomfort. Like, I no longer belong you know, it's
it's like that Nanny McPhee. If anybody has ever watched that movie when
she says, when I am needed but not wanted, I
must stay. When I am wanted but no longer needed, I must
go. That's how I feel. When I am

(08:53):
needed and there's something some purpose I'm fulfilling, some
role that I am inhabiting in a way that nobody else
is in that space, then I'm there and I'm I'm
thriving and what have you. But once the challenges stop,
once that feeling goes away, I'm
out. And I had a coworker ask me one time. He was

(09:15):
just like, you bail on every gig
right before things go to hell. And I was just like,
it just looks that way from the outside. I know nothing
about what companies are gonna be taken over. I and especially at that
point in my life that he was talking about, I was paying no attention to
corporate takeovers and buyouts and all those different things. I was just

(09:37):
leaving when the spirit said it was time to go. Yes.
And I encourage anybody because I think we often
stay places far longer than we should
because of a variety of reasons, and all of them could be
perfectly correct for you, whether that's earning a living for your family
to support them or to support yourself or to get to a

(10:00):
certain place in life that you thought was right and you're you're just
following it. Absolutely. All those things. But if something in your spirit
says that it's time to move, you better move because if you don't move,
spirit will move you. Yes. I agree. I
agree. And so it sounds like you were you are someone who's
in tune with your spirit, and so that's something you

(10:22):
could hear. So there's two things involved. You can hear it and then
actually respond to it. Alright. So let's set this in
context for people and talk about you can hit some highlights because
you have such a wealth of you can say as much or little as you
want. You know what I'm interested in. I'm just interested in your whole because a
communicator and how you've been doing that throughout your your life.

(10:44):
So you can pick up anywhere in your career journey, and then I can bring
us back and ask some questions and help us know where how you got to
where you are now. So maybe the milestones or the Yes. Maybe
the big milestones or the yeah. However you wanna approach it. I'll
I'll get to what we're what we're looking for. You can just start anywhere.
So I'm gonna start at my first job because

(11:06):
it was so particular in the way that it happened, and
it is also emblematic of the way a lot of things have gone in
my life. I was on a speech and debate team in high school,
and I'm from a little town new I and called New Iberia in
Southwest Louisiana. And, you know,
sugarcane and hot and Tabasco sauce is what

(11:29):
we do. Right? Is this little town in the country having a good
time? And my mother did
not want me to have just any old job, you know. Like,
she was just like, even though she could see the value
in working at, say, McDonald's or, you know, something like
that, She always wanted me to do something

(11:51):
extracurricularly that would help me and my
development. Right? And she was scared, I think,
that I would get a job and fall in love with the money.
Right? Because when you get your first little job and you have your little stuff,
you're like, oh, I'm a make some more money. I'm a take some more shifts
so I could get me a car or do this. She know she knew me.
So she was like, unless it's adding something to your

(12:14):
future, your education, or something unique, you don't have my permission to
go to work. And so when I was on the speech and
debate team, my speech coach was contacted by
one of the local programmers who'd like to hire high school kids
because our local university had a very strong
broadcast communications program. So kind of in a way of

(12:36):
keeping talent at home, he would hire in high school and
you would work all the way through college. And, you
know, some people even got hired and so on and so forth. So,
she sent me and my best friend to audition for
a job at the local radio station, a country western
station, KNIR, girl. And I got the

(13:00):
job and, yes, I'm still friends with that friend. It had you know, because we
didn't even know what it was. It was just like we went and we read
something on the paper and then they decided, you know, what
they liked or what have you. So I started
working, and and my mom approved of that job because
she thought it would develop further skills or it

(13:21):
was it was something unique and different. And in those
days, your college applications didn't have to have all these
extra things on them the way they do now. Like, we didn't do
public service. Even if we did public service, it wasn't on our college
applications. Like, we actually wrote those things out back in the nineteen
hundreds. And so that's that's what started

(13:43):
everything. Everything starts from there. Because had I
not had that job, I wouldn't have gone to school and been on
the college radio station, and then I wouldn't have had
something to fall back on when I decided not to go to grad school. Because
the whole reason why I have a career now is because I took what
would be called a gap year between college

(14:05):
and grad school. I was like, I wanted because I my major was in
psychology. I'm fascinated by people. And so my
intention was to become a therapist. And I knew that I
wasn't really mature enough to go to be
in you know, to do a clinical program at that point. So I was
like, I'll just work a year. And I go to the the career

(14:27):
center in college. I went to Northwestern. That's how I ended up in
Chicago. I go to the career center, and I was just like, yeah. I don't
know what I wanna do. I'm I've been a secretary. Like, I was as an
assistant research assistant doing all these things on campus with my little
work study. But I was like, I don't know if that translates to the real
world. And they were like, okay. We'll get you a temp job so you can

(14:49):
make a little money, but we're gonna also send you for this internship at
this radio station. And this radio station was WGN
Radio, which is, like, one of the most influential radio stations in
the country. And I ended up working there. I work as worked as a
copywriter, but I knew I wanted to be on air because at that point,
I'd been on the college radio station and really had fun with it.

(15:11):
And then when I had the conversation with the career counselor, they were like, yeah.
You can make money doing that. You know? Yeah. You're doing it for free here,
and you hardly made any money in New Iberia. But in Chicago,
you know, and in major markets, you can make some bank. And I
was like, I can. Okay. Well, I'm only doing
this for a year anyway. Next thing I know, I have a whole career.

(15:35):
I I didn't go back to school until
2014, and it wasn't for psychology.
I I went back to get my master of science in communication because at that
point, I had been in the business for basically thirty years.
But I went from, you know, doing radio. I did traffic.
I was a news reporter. And then, of course, I was a jock as

(15:56):
well, you know, hosting on on music radio. And I was at one of
the best stations in the country out of Chicago called
WGCI. It was where Doug Banks and Tom Joyner were. And, of course,
people know Tom Joyner, the fly jock. The the the whole fly
jock thing started at GCI. Oh. And it
was one of the most, especially at that time,

(16:19):
admired and copied radio stations as far as the
format and how they it was done in the country at that time,
for for black stations. At the time, the urban it was called urban urban
radio. Urban Remember that. But, yeah, for for black
stations, you know, formats, r and b, hip hop, and things like
that, that station was like the place to be. And I just ended up there

(16:42):
through happenstance and grace. And from there,
I did television part time, then I started doing
it full time. And, yeah,
girl, worked for damn near every station in
Chicago in, on TV. And
yeah, just, and then, then because I was

(17:04):
always speaking as a part of my job and
didn't realize that that was a separate career until my
last show got canceled. And I had been doing
some consulting and things because when I went back to grad school, I was still
on the air. And I realized then that
there were a lot of things that we knew in

(17:26):
broadcast that people who I thought were good
communicators and professional communicators still didn't
know. Like, my in my cohort and my grad school program,
half of the students asked me to help them with their presentation
style at some point in time. So I was already coaching at that point.
I was like I was like, what you mean you're nervous? Don't you do this

(17:48):
all the time? And they were like, well, no, but yeah, but I don't
like it and whatever. Like, but you talk to people all the time. And I
was like, oh, okay. And then I understood
why we would get people on our show that would bomb,
like, completely wonderful, smart,
brilliant individuals who are running companies, but they got the shakes

(18:11):
and the sweat sitting on a couch to talk to two girls
about some public service thing they're doing that their company is
doing, some, you know, corporate social responsibility thing. And I'm like,
why are you nervous? You run a whole company.
Why is being in the studio a weird thing for you? But then I
started to see that that was my reality, and that

(18:34):
was normal to me, and it wasn't necessarily normal to everybody
else. And so as I started getting opportunities
to speak and to come in and consult and train, I
developed a program because I thought my business was gonna be
media training because that's where I saw the big gap.
But I had to do so much to get people ready to be media

(18:56):
trained that I had to figure out a system for it, and that's what's
in the book. Like, because, basically, I realized that
people the problem wasn't that they couldn't
communicate on television or radio. The problem was they
weren't communicating internally and
didn't have a grasp of their messaging. Because no matter how

(19:18):
many publicists you hire that give you or marketing people
you hire that give you great, you know, things to talk
about. If you don't have an understanding in
your heart about what that is and how you're relating to
other people, who your audience is, why they care about the things
you're saying, it's always gonna come across empty. So that's the reason why I ended

(19:41):
up writing the book. Oh, makes sense.
Alright. So as you know, I have a thousand questions.
I'm trying to I'm trying to rein it in. I'm gonna come back. I'm gonna
hopefully keep this. I'm gonna come back to where we are now. But let's go
back to high school when you got on the radio station. What were you
doing as a high school student on the radio? I was introducing

(20:03):
because it was a country western station, so I was introducing music my daddy
listened to. Because remember, I'm from South I'm actually from
the same parish in Louisiana where Tina
Knowles is from. Oh. So Beyonce's mama
and Beyonce's mama is cousins with one of my best friend's
mamas. So where she where her family is

(20:26):
from in Louisiana is the same place. Okay. So let let so
we'll start there with that part. And so country
like so like when you talk about Country Carter, I remember when Country Carter came
out, I was like, yeah, we finally getting ours because, like, my daddy loved
country western music. Have you ever heard Zydeco music from Southwest
Louisiana, which is all the the the the purview

(20:48):
of Creole people? We've been creating that music,
and that is ours too. So it
wasn't a stretch for me to be on a country western station because my dad
listened to it. Right. So I knew Charley Pride and I
knew who Waylon Jennings was. I knew the
music. It wasn't necessarily my music at that time. It

(21:10):
was my daddy's music, though, and my grandmommy's music. So
I heard it. I was familiar with it. So I just talked about the
music. Like, I this is coming up. You know, you do a little
time check. You do a thing. They tell you what you know? Like, he gave
me kind of a little crash course of whatever, but I already
loved radio before that because I was I never thought of

(21:32):
it as something that I could do as a career, but I listened to the
radio all the time. Girl, I got my first radio when I was six years
old and asked for it. Ah. Like, it wasn't just because my
parents gave it to me. I asked for I was like, I want a radio.
I wanted my own. How did you know that there you could have your own
radio? Did your family have another radio or the, like what? There was

(21:53):
the radio in the car, and remember, that's when boom boxes
were first coming out. Mhmm. And so the
first the one I got when I was six years old, though, this was my
mama had given me a jewelry box that had a little
radio on it. Did you do? I loved it. My my mother was a
musician. So I always was used to like, I play

(22:15):
and and the thing was, I think my mama got me that so I wouldn't
be messing with her stereo. That's what I really
think because I had a habit of destroying things. I was I was
hard on I was I got a heavy hand, Robin. I got a heavy hand.
And so I wasn't allowed to touch things. And because my mother
was a musician, we had a piano in the house. There was a record player

(22:37):
in the house, you know, like, because vinyl was the main way
like, CDs and cassettes didn't even exist. And it was eight
track tapes and vinyl when I was a kid,
40 and, albums, LPs,
if you will. And so there was always music in the house.
I loved music, and I think my mama got me that

(22:58):
that jewelry box to keep me out of her stuff. But then after
that, I was like, it's not loud enough. I want my own. I
got it on 10, and it's not loud enough, mom. And she was like, you
don't need to be listening to it that loud, baby. Uh-huh. Can I have a
real radio of my own? And so she got
me this little, you know, little boom box, and then we then

(23:19):
I had she had for her work cassette players,
the kind where you had to press with the two I remember those. She had
those, but I wasn't allowed to touch those either because she used those for work.
You know, she would record, her choral students and
make them listen back so that they can understand how they sounded. And
that's how she used to do with me whenever I had a poem

(23:42):
to do for school, a book report, or whatever. Baby,
I got coached, and I still use like, literally, that is
the foundation of this of the methods that I use
to work with my clients now. Isn't that fascinating? Did you
enjoy it? So it sounds like you were a speaker early on, you know, with
you with your poetry and other things. Girl, my mama told me I

(24:04):
started talking at nine months old, and I don't think I've shut up since.
What were you talking about when you're when you were little? Did they say, or
just talking about anything? I think I just ran my mouth to
just be running it. I well, you know what? I was always I and I
still am very curious slash nosy. So

(24:24):
my favorite question was, well, why? Well, wait. Wait. Why they did
that? Because I was if I didn't understand, I wanted to
understand. So I was always asking questions. And being
an only child, I was able to ask questions, but then they had
to school me about being in other groups and being like,
the stuff we do at home, everybody don't do. So I'm a need you

(24:46):
to behave yourself. But in school, like, if I and I always
had ideas and I was always and the way I expressed them
was verbally. And, yeah, it may like, even
in kindergarten, like, during that time, I was
trying to talk to the kids other kids. I would be like, listen. I wasn't
I I was I was at school. It was social time. Why are we lying

(25:09):
down? I don't understand. And miss Butler had had
enough of me. And because my mama was a teacher and in the same school
system, they just and we literally lived down the street from that school.
Oh, miss Butler called my mama and was like, you're gonna have to do something
with this child. So my mama was friends with one of the
first grade teachers. It was a Catholic school, Sister Albertine. The reason

(25:31):
why she was friends with Sister Albertine was because they both played the piano, and
they were really the only two pianists in town. They were, like, maybe four in
town. So they played every wedding, every funeral, whatever. And so since we were
down the street, sister Albertine used to come and visit. And so my mama
was like, listen. Can you have Jeanne in your class when it's nap time? Can
miss Butler bring Jeanne over so she can have something to do? She'll be

(25:52):
intimidated by the first grader. She was like, give her something hard to do so
that she won't be bothering everybody. Because I always was the one
because when I was in school, they were experimenting without using grades,
so it was either satisfactory, unsatisfactory it was like
s's, u's, and something else. Mhmm. So I was always getting the good
stuff except in conduct because we got

(26:14):
conduct grades, and I was always in a u because it was like, can't keep
my mouth shut. And the thing that they thought
was an issue and maybe in certain settings turned out to be a huge
part of your gifting and then, you know, came turned into this
full rich career for you, which is so interesting.
Alright. So let me say to the listeners some things to look out for. If

(26:35):
they're in their journey that I see from your story early on, and
so they might look back and say, what was the thing that I was always
doing? I just had to do. Like, you just had to do it even at
nap time. I know I'm not supposed to, but I just have to. Right? So
I believe those are clues for your purpose, those things that you always just
have to do, no matter if they were frowned upon or not when

(26:56):
you were young or embraced or celebrated. And it sounds like you had a
combination of both. You know, your your mother in her wisdom,
she knew you, and she knew how to develop what she could see as your
gifts and kinda geared you in the right path. And my
dad reinforced it because he was a talker too. So it
was socially acceptable in our family

(27:18):
to be that my dad and my dad was a storyteller, my aunts and
uncles. Like, that was how we related to each other. So I was
always in a setting or often in a setting where that was
reinforced. Yeah. Which is wonderful. So for people who
are listening or watching now that go back and look at your childhood and look
at those things for you. And then you mentioned, Jean, that in addition to

(27:40):
talking, you were curious and you like ideas. So those were all
kind of seeds of what would become later. So I think it's
fascinating fascinating that you have the story. I love kind of connecting the
dots. Alright. So now let's come let's come forward fast forward
to present day or the time where you're now doing this work where you're
helping others consulting and teaching from the book. How'd you get

(28:03):
there from where you were right before doing that?
So let's see. How did I get there? So
I think the first the first step in it was going back
to grad school. And that was just a bucket list thing
because I had intended to go to school,
you know, when I was studying psychology. And so it was always in

(28:26):
the back of my head that I wanted to have another degree. My
mother had one. Most of my cousins did. So I was just
kinda like, well, I need one too. Shoot. You
know? Just to say. With the family tradition. Yeah.
Exactly. I'm a master of something. So and the
other thing, the other reason why I went back to school was I

(28:47):
realized, and I had kind of this inkling
that there was more to what I knew than the
way I was using it. That I had been in broadcast
all this time and I knew I didn't wanna be in girl. I've worked morning
shifts so many times, and I call them all my tours of duty because I
am not a morning person. But I was getting up at two and three in

(29:09):
the morning to do these shows and stuff like that, especially when it was TV,
because you gotta get up and you gotta put the shellac on your face and
get yourself presentable and, you know, whatever. And so the and the
preparation time is different. And I knew I didn't wanna live my life like
that for the rest of my life. And every show has its, you
know, time and frame. And I was like, I don't think, like, in my

(29:30):
forties, if this feels like this, I don't know if in my fifties, this is
what I wanna be doing. In fact, I know I don't, so I better find
something else. But I didn't know what I knew
what it was worth. Like, I knew what my experience was, and I knew
what it was worth within the broadcast sphere, but I had no idea what
value it had outside of that. And so I went back to

(29:52):
grad school, and during my interview, which I didn't know was an interview at
the time, I was just trying to get information, and it turns out she was
trying to get information on me for admissions. She asked me why I wanted
to join the program. And I said, I wanna know what I know. I don't
know what I know. And so when but when I was in that
program is when I realized the value because

(30:13):
all of these people in my cohort are asking me for help. And that's when
I'm like, oh, these
things that I know that everybody else does the same as
I do, if not better in broadcast,
corporate, they need to be able to get ahead, but
they aren't always prepared to do it. And they didn't necessarily

(30:35):
opt into that when they were in undergrad,
high school, you know, middle school, or elementary
school because, you know, especially the generation right I'm Gen
x. So right the the generation right behind me, they
that was when they stopped having to do oral book reports
and stand in front of the class then, you know, elocution

(30:57):
was was a topic. And
so I found that there were people who opted into that, into the acting
classes and things like that. But there were people just as many, if
not more, who because they weren't forced to do it, opted out of it. And
now they're realizing, if I wanna be a manager, I
have to be able to conduct meetings. I have to be able to present to

(31:20):
those above me and those below me on the org
chart, and I have a whole set of skills that I have no idea how
to get. Mhmm. And that's where the seeds of my business were
born, and that's how I ended up here.
But it all kind of unfolded because a lot of my clients,
first clients came from that program who were like, you need to

(31:42):
come in or, like, they got a promotion and were like, I'm a hire you
to come train my staff. Some of those and there's at least one of
those clients that I'm still actively working with today on a regular
basis. Wow. Wow. And so the
you saw the need, and it kinda matched your gifts and
experience that you had taken for granted because you thought, well,

(32:04):
everybody can do this, which by the way and and I say this to
people all the time. Pay attention to the things that you take for granted. Oh
my gosh. I say that too. Especially the things that people tell you they
appreciate about you. Yeah. Because and then you go, that's
nothing. That's the key right there because It is.
Because they're already telling you what it's worth. One of my business coaches early

(32:26):
on said to me, your clients will tell you what your business
is. And when I started going to her, she's the one who told me
because when I met her, I still had a media and presentation
training business. And she said to me, that is part of your
business, but there's a whole other part of it that you're
completely ignoring that you're doing and you're giving away for free.

(32:49):
Wow. Yeah. That was a huge lesson. And back to our
earlier conversation about being authentic and how being
true to who you really are. And for me, I'm, like, trying to help people
get at their purpose. I'm, like, that's a clue. That thing that we are
both talking about that you just take for granted. Sure. Everybody can do this easy.
You don't even notice it. So you you are a a illustration

(33:11):
in your life as a a witness to that. Right? I try to be. I
try to be. And you teach about it. Did you have any,
any hesitance when you thought about business or you just thought
your your graduate colleagues were, hey. They need it. Let me give it to them.
I'll do the business thing. Listen.
No. I I did that's not how it happened. I had great

(33:33):
trepidation about it. Yeah. I asked because there are people who are
listening or watching, and they might say, well, there's something in the back of
my mind I kinda wanna do. It might be a business. It might but
especially if they're thinking about a business and they
hear someone who has done their own business and gotten into
it, they might think, well, it's easy for them to talk about it because

(33:56):
they could do it. They didn't have they don't have the fear that I have,
or they didn't have the hesitance or the stress or this reason or that reason.
So that's why I asked you the question. Huge hesitance
because there was a part of me that always
wanted a business and wanted that independence that I saw
in my family members and friends who are entrepreneurs. But because

(34:18):
of the high cost of production, I always
thought there's no way like, I always thought the only business I could ever have
as talent was a production company. And at that
time, production companies, you needed investors because
a camera was $25. Right? One. One
camera. That's not the editing software, the

(34:40):
computers you need to run it on. That's not, you know,
relationships and distribution, all these things. Like and there was it's it was so
daunting to me that I was like, I can't follow
an Oprah or a Bill Curtis or, you know, people who
who had been who I was or done what I had done and then
moved on. I was I just didn't see that possibility. I also didn't

(35:03):
really want it. You know? That was the other thing. I was like, do I
really want to run a media company?
And the answer came back, like, uh-uh. No. Because it
because there were a lot of moving parts then. And so I had kind
of accepted that I was gonna have to shift
into something else. And but

(35:25):
even when it came down to it, I had already started
doing some work freelancing on the side while I was still in
television. Then the show I was on got canceled,
and I already had, you know, a few little
clients, a couple little speaking things I had done, but it certainly
wasn't enough to live on. And I've always had multiple

(35:46):
streams of income because I don't ever believe in depending on
one thing, and I've always acted as well. I did voice over
work. I've done voice over work since I was in my twenties. Really? And so
yeah. And and, you know, acting in commercials when I could on
camera. But when you do on camera work, some of that commercial work
falls by the wayside because it's a conflict of interest.

(36:10):
And so when the morning show I was on got canceled,
that was when I was like, I think it's time to start the business. And
my financial planner said this to me because it was so funny. I
was in myself and my on air partner, we we were in our
last year and a half of our contract, and
I was already planning my exit. You know, moving money around and making

(36:33):
investments that could carry me through whatever it was I was gonna
do next. And I was fairly certain I was gonna start a business. So
we were probably two months into that
conversation when they canceled our show and fired us.
And so I call RJ, my financial planner, and
I was like, RJ, you're not gonna believe this. I was like,

(36:55):
they let us go. And he said, well, do you still have a
paycheck? I said, yeah, because I'm still under contract. I he said, are they giving
you a lump sum or they I was like, they're paying me as if I'm
an employee. He said, fine. Then nothing changes about our
plan. He was like, go have a glass of champagne with Melissa and have a
good time. Okay. He was like, we'll talk. And we we were scheduled to talk
in two weeks. So when we met up two

(37:19):
weeks later, I'm literally sitting in his office crying because
it's scary Yeah. When you don't have that
job, when you don't have, you know, some place to go every
day. And the novelty of being
off had already worn off by the time I got to his office. Right? It
had been two weeks. I'm like, okay. I'm rested. I'm ready. What we doing?

(37:41):
Mhmm. And this is what he said to me. He said, you know what, Jean?
He said, over the years, you have had a
few ideas for businesses, which I had. He said, but
you never really acted on them. He was like,
god keeps opening these windows. He said, you keep
sticking your head through looking out and going, no. Not right

(38:02):
now. And you come back in, and God politely closes that
window and then waits a little while and opens up a nudge. He said, you've
done that several times. He said, God got tired of your
shit. I'm so sorry. That's what he said.
He was like and we were literally standing at the door
to his office. And he's he opened the door, and he

(38:24):
said, this is what god did, and he pushed me through the door. He
said, sometimes, god gets tired of
showing you the path that he wants you to take and
you not choosing it because of whatever reason. He said, and
sometimes he has to make it so that you get
pushed through the door. He was like, that's what just happened to

(38:46):
you. He says, so now it's time for the rubber to meet the road and
for you to do what you gotta do. He said, go see an attorney, start
your business, do your thing. He said it will happen.
Wow. Wow. What a what a gift to have somebody like
that in your life to see you and encourage you, the thing
that was in you that you literally supposed to encourage

(39:09):
you to do that. And it's so interesting. I had an interview with somebody else
recently, a podcast guest, either the last one or two.
Similarly, she had actually retired and then from the
military and then, like, now what after a month? And her
husband was the one that reminded her, remember you you always thought about
starting a business. So it's very interesting now to hear you that you had this

(39:32):
person in your life that reminded you and then gave you a
big a big, I don't wanna say warning, but just like pay
attention. Pay attention. Your life is trying to get your attention.
Yeah. And the thing was this is the crazy piece. I was already
doing this, and that was what that was what his whole point was. He
was like, you are are you are already farther along than most

(39:53):
people are when they're putting together a business plan. He said, you
already have clients. You already have people who have asked you to
do things. You are in position you are in position to do
it. I went to the women's business development center in Chicago that
helps women, you know, form their small businesses. And I was I checked off the
little box online, like, starting off my business, doing these things. And I

(40:16):
went there, and the lady goes, I I don't I can't help you. And
I was like, why can't you help me? She said, you've already done everything
that I would have told you to do. And I was like,
She was like, you already have clients. You're already earning money. You already have
a business plan. You already she was like, you don't need me right
now. And she was like, you just need to go out and work. And I

(40:39):
was like, okay. Fine then.
Don't help me then. And did you believe you could go out
and just do the work between him and now her? Did you feel like
you have what you needed to do this? Because, again, I'd be inspiring somebody
who's at that stage. I'm a be whatever it is. I still
wonder sometimes if I got I like, the fact that

(41:02):
I have a whole entire book, Robin, is beyond
me. Like, it's still surreal. The book has been out
since, like, January 7. So it's been out for
several weeks now, and it's still not real to me fully.
Yeah. I've recorded the audiobook, which is coming out in March. Still not
real to me. Oh. I talk about it. I've done press.

(41:24):
I've done still not real to me. Sometimes it takes
a while to set in. And and here's the thing. I think and
this is, I think, part of the thing about fearless authenticity, why I say do
it scared, because the reality is is
that there is never just like there's never an optimal time to have
a kid, just like there's never a perfect time,

(41:46):
you know, to quit a job or to there's always a reason.
There is always a reason not to do something because it's a safe
choice. There's never a perfect time to do anything, so you
may as well go on and do what you wanna do anyway because there's never
gonna be a better time than right now. Never. There just isn't.
When you start making steps towards something, though,

(42:07):
it starts making steps to meet you. That's what I have
found. And that's what I mean when I say when you pursue
and are dedicated to your authenticity, that your
purpose will find you. Because a lot of times, I think we spend a
lot of time looking for to try to make it all make
sense. And, yes, there are ways to do that.

(42:30):
I think the questions you have your clients and your
listeners asking themselves are very definitely the
ways to to find that, and I try to do the same thing in my
work. But when you are actively
listening to your gut and saying this is the right thing,
even though I know I'm scared, this is the right thing for me to

(42:51):
do, somehow, some way, the universe conspires
to make that happen for you. Yes. And the signs are always
there. The moment is always there for you to take advantage of
it, and clients always show up exactly when you
need that money to keep things going. There have
been many a moment where I've been like, I don't know if we

(43:14):
go last another month. And every year at the end of the year, my
CPA goes, another good year.
Go. Yeah. You
stay you stayed true to you, and it kept going. Yeah.
And I just have to trust that that's gonna keep going because I don't have
another plan. Yeah. I don't have another plan. Yeah.

(43:36):
Well, if your experience so far is any indicator,
you don't have to. That's what I'm hoping. Have another
plan. Alright. So now before we tell people where they can get in touch with
you, is there anything that you could say to a woman who is
wanting, you know, successful on paper, but looking for meaning and purpose?
You've already gave us so many nuggets. Is there one

(43:58):
last thing you wanna say to her about this quest to have
more meaning and purpose? For someone who may not be like you
or sensitive and connected to your own intuition,
she might not have that, but she still knows that she wants
more. What can you share with her before we tell them where they can get
in touch with you? I have two things to say to her,

(44:21):
and I find this to I'm so glad you said woman in particular
because I think we as women often discount ourselves,
and and this work resonates a lot with
women. The first thing I'll say is I have an
exercise I do with people, and I call it uncovering
authenticity. And I do it from the perspective of work because I

(44:42):
find that most of us find our value in our
work even though we as humans are valuable regardless of what we
do. But ask yourself three questions. What work do you do and
not by not by your job title,
but by the tasks you do every day or the tasks you
wanna be doing every day. How do you want to fill your days? How are

(45:04):
your days filled? Look at that. Then ask yourself, who
gets the benefits of that work? And that's how you figure out
what that's worth and what people will pay for. But
also baked into that, and this is the last
question, what's important to you about providing those
benefits? Because if you find the joy in something

(45:27):
and also the unique way you do all of those
things, because maybe you do something that other people do. All of us do.
Nothing. There's not too many one and only jobs in the world.
But when you can answer those three questions, you can start to find
the value and see your own value and start to
move like you have value. And it will

(45:50):
also get you in touch with that intuition that says,
this is what I should be doing. So that would be
my my first thing I would say to her. The other thing I would say
to her, and this is actually the more important thing, remember that you are the
gift. Plain and simple. You are the gift that the world
has been waiting for, and all of us are the

(46:11):
gift. And when we can see that in ourselves, then we can see it in
other people and see where we fit because I feel like
this whole world, I don't know about you, it's like this big puzzle,
and we're all these little pieces trying to fit somewhere.
And when we find where we fit and if you do puzzles, you know how
satisfying it is when you find that one weird little shape puzzle piece

(46:34):
that has all those weird angles, and it snaps right into place. And
then all of a sudden, the picture falls into place and you see what
it's gonna be, not just because it's on the box. You are the gift.
You are that piece, and the world is waiting for you to figure out
your right edges so that you snap into place. Know
that. I mean, you can just drop the mic right now.

(46:59):
Where can people follow you and stay in touch with
you, because I'm sure I'm absolutely
convinced. They're like, I gotta hear more. I hope they will. I absolute
I have so enjoyed this conversation. When
somebody else is aligned, it just feels so good. People can find me at
fearlessauthenticity.com. For information about the book,

(47:20):
it's fearlessauthenticity.com/book. On social media
at j m sparrow, and it's sparrow like the
bird. And I'm also on YouTube at miss Jeanne Sparrow, and
that's j e a n n e. That's where my podcast and a
lot of that other stuff lives. But if you go to the website, all the
links are there. And I hope you will connect and say hello

(47:42):
because this conversation has been amazing.
And you know you know without even I don't have to say,
you know, I love this conversation for many reasons. So thank you for being here
and sharing your your wonderful wealth of experience
and joy and gifting with us. Really appreciate you.

(48:02):
I appreciate you, Robin. Keep preaching the good word about helping people find
their purpose. We need this so much in life. I certainly
will. And for everybody listening, be the first to get on
the wait list for when my book is available, Becoming
a PurposeMAKER, coming soon. Follow me on all
social channels but I spend most of my time on LinkedIn,

(48:25):
at Robin L. Owens PhD, at Robin L. Owens
PhD and I can't wait for you to see and hear what's in the book
for you. And until next time, this
is Dr. Robin. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of
the Leadership Purpose with Doctor Robin podcast. If
you enjoyed it, head on over and rate and subscribe

(48:47):
so you never miss an episode. New episodes drop
every week, and I can't wait to hang out with you again
soon. Meanwhile, this is Dr.
Robin signing off. See you next time.

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Trusting Your Gut Even When You're Scared with Jeanne Sparrow | Ep 215

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Trusting Your Gut Even When You're Scared with Jeanne Sparrow | Ep 215