May 6, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode, Tom Caravela and Patrina Pellett explore the highlights of the Fierce Pharma Engage 2025 conference. They discuss the conference's format, content, sessions, networking opportunities, and compare it to previous years. Keynote highlights and speaker impressions are shared, followed by a discussion on AI's future in the industry. The episode shares key conference takeaways and advice for medical affairs professionals.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Hey, guys.
Welcome to the podcast.
This is going to be a very special episode withmy partner in crime, Katrina.
Hallett, welcome back, Katrina.
How are you?
Thanks for having me.
Appreciate it.
Exciting.
Yeah.
So Katrina and I just got back kinda sorta fromSan Diego.
Fierce Pharma Engage Twenty Twenty Five.
Great conference.
(00:23):
We're gonna do a recap.
We did this for maps.
A lot of people liked it.
So we were like, you know what?
We're gonna do this again.
We were at the show.
Some people you know, a lot of people missedit.
They couldn't make it, and they wanna seewhat's the latest and greatest.
So we're gonna do a recap, and we're gonna talkabout AI today because Katrina did an amazing
(00:45):
session on AI.
So many people are asking about it, so we'regonna talk about that.
Before we get to that, Katrina, why don't youtell me exciting news that we have from MSL
Mastery about AI?
Yes.
If you guys aren't on our newsletter,definitely sign up for that.
MSLMastery.com/newsletter.
(01:06):
The reason I'm mentioning the loo newsletter isbecause we officially launched our medical
affairs chatbot.
Her name is Mira.
She is trained on all of our content,frameworks, ideas, and she is awesome.
So think of her as a very knowledgeable medicalaffairs person that you can access and ask
(01:29):
questions anytime.
Mhmm.
It's fun.
It's actually a lot of fun.
She's so smart.
It's great.
It's so I had so much fun with it.
Yeah.
And so if you wanna access Mira, just go toMSLMastery.com.
And on the home page, she's embedded in thebottom right corner.
So you just enter your information, and thenyou can just start chatting away.
(01:53):
Ask her anything related to medical affairs,whether it's about better training programs for
MSLs, how to break into the industry, insights,whatever comes into your mind.
And like I mentioned, she's trained on ourspecialized medical affairs knowledge.
So this is not just any chatbot.
(02:14):
Oh, no.
It's great.
Like, people that listen to this show that arethat always have questions and ask questions.
Like, check it out.
I I know you guys are gonna get a lot of valuefrom it, and we're curious to hear what you
think too.
So let us know, but check it out.
She's so cute too.
She's, like, in the, like, lower right handcorner.
She got glasses on.
And
Red hair.
Like, red hair.
Yep.
Awesome.
Yeah.
(02:34):
So cool.
Alright.
So let's talk about the conference, and let'sstart with, like, the background details.
Like, can you tell everybody what is FiercePharma Engage?
Like, who's it for?
How many people were there?
Where was it?
All that stuff.
Well, Fierce Pharma Engage is a rebranding or,apparently, Mass West and Mass East were
(02:56):
purchased by Fierce Pharma.
So this is the new format that they are doingthese conferences around.
It was like prior additions, versions, sessionsof of MassWest was in San Diego.
But this time, what was really unique is thatthey combined four different tracks.
(03:17):
So there was one room dedicated to medicalaffairs, but there are also two sorry, three
other rooms that were dedicated to marketing,PR, and then BD and L.
So we were intermingling with all these otherpeople.
So, normally, think about it as it would onlybe medical affairs.
(03:40):
This time, it was four different groups ofpeople that were distinguished by the color of
the lanyards.
So me and Tom and all the medical affairspeople were orange.
Mhmm.
Yeah.
So it was interesting at some of the networksession networking sessions because people are
always looking for their lanyards color.
(04:01):
Right?
Like, oh, where are my medical affairs people?
Additionally, this was at a very nice resort inSan Diego, not too far for the from the airport
unless you get stuck in traffic like me.
It's really funny because you I was coming fromthe airport, and it's only, like, one exit, and
it took forever.
But just
That same
That timing.
Yep.
(04:21):
Bad timing.
But you walk in, of course, it's like thisCalifornia cool minimalist hipster lobby.
And then right through the building, you couldsee the pool.
And then there was all types of buildings onthe property.
I thought it was funny that when you look out,you saw the fierce pharma signs by the pool.
I was like, oh my gosh.
(04:41):
I didn't bring my swimmies.
Like Yeah.
What am I gonna do here?
Yeah.
The weather was beautiful.
The center was pretty nice.
The room's not so nice.
Tom can tell you all about that.
But what else would you add here, Tom?
My room was haunted.
Don't even get me started.
It was awful.
You always have the haunted room.
(05:01):
I am telling you, man.
I something is not right.
I get the worst rooms.
The venue, I thought, was very inviting becauseit was so, like, spacious, and it was a resort.
It was, like, it was a resort.
So, like, the pool setting, like Katrina said,I'll tell you that I thought one of the things
that really stood out to me was being a theweather was perfect every
(05:22):
So nice.
Being able to do a networking session the firstnight outside in this beautiful weather.
They did a really good job with it, and theythey had this the dessert, like, cookie tray
was, like, epic.
It was insane.
It
was beautiful.
Stood out.
(05:43):
It really was.
So that was exciting.
Yep.
Additionally, the resort was very dog friendly.
There were dogs everywhere.
People out walking their dogs.
So that was kind of fun.
Yeah.
I Yeah.
Totally agree with Tom.
Very spacious, very spread out.
So imagine everybody wearing the sunglasses inthe California sunshine walking over to the
(06:04):
sessions.
And getting back to so this format is new.
It used to be Mass West, which was just medicalaffairs, and there were probably anywhere from
a 50 to make maybe 250 people that would attendMassWest.
All medical affairs people.
Now you had, like, four times that.
(06:26):
Mhmm.
Maybe there wasn't as many medical affairspeople as they normally do.
I'm not sure.
They said it was about the same.
But it's again, you had to look at the lanyardsand had to kind of figure out who was in your
tribe versus who was in, like, the on the PRside.
Katrina, you've been to MassWest.
Obviously, we went last year, but, like, whatdo you think of the new format versus, like,
(06:49):
the MassWest format?
I thought it was kinda cool, and I think theydid a pretty good job trying to get people to
mingle.
So the vendor floor was one space.
The breakfast, lunch, networking were all onespace.
So everybody from all the tracks came into onelocation.
During my session, I saw some blue and purplelanyards.
(07:12):
So that means people were cross pollinating.
And I talked to a few medical affairs folksthat were actually going to the other talks as
well.
So I think that was pretty cool that we havethe opportunity to go out and network.
Did we?
No.
I mean, everybody's pretty clicky.
Right?
But I think it was cool.
The idea was there.
(07:33):
What did you think, Tom?
Well, so here's the interesting thing that Ithink that was cool that they gave you the
ability to cross pollinate and go to othersessions.
A lot of people were getting confused Mhmm.
Yeah.
And not thinking that they can go to othersessions.
It was actually because I talked to the eventplanners after.
(07:56):
It was encouraged.
But the reason people got freaked out isbecause they were getting their badges scanned
on the way in, but they weren't scanning totake to so that they didn't want you to go in.
They were scanning to keep track of how manypeople went to different sessions, like, cross
pollinated.
They just wanted to see Yep.
(08:17):
How many medical affairs people went to PR andso forth.
So for future reference, if they do this again,the idea and the concept is they encourage you
and they want you to go to see other sessions,meet other people, and learn from the other
groups.
You don't have to stay within your own group.
(08:38):
I didn't
realize that.
That was definitely a missed opportunity for meas well because I didn't realize that.
And we've all been to conferences where they'rescanning you before you go in the room, so I
thought it was gated as well.
And to be perfectly honest, I didn't even lookat the agendas for the other session.
So I I wish I did, but, yeah, definitely amissed opportunity there.
(09:00):
That's the feed that was the feedback that Igave to them.
I was like, that should be communicated betterupfront.
Like, maybe even at the registration desk, letthem know ahead of time on the way in, hey.
Feel free to go into some of the othersessions.
Yep.
Yep.
Definitely.
Okay.
Let's talk about the sessions.
Let's talk about, like, let's talk about thecontent.
(09:21):
Like, what themes stuck out to you?
Medical affairs theme stuck out to you most atthis event?
I love the sessions.
So one thing that I've always really likedabout Mass West and now Fierce Pharma is that
it is pretty small, and there aren't a lot ofdifferent rooms.
So everybody is going to the same sessions.
I thought that there was a really wide range.
(09:44):
So we hit all the classics, right, measuringimpact.
Some unique ones that I liked were increasingimpact in clinical trials.
They had a great panel on that.
A cool one that I thought was a little uniquewas how to build a medical affairs department
on a shoestring budget.
That was cool.
(10:04):
The omnichannel panel was really nice as well.
So I would say all the classic topics we wouldexpect to see at a medical affairs conference,
but a little bit leveled up.
Oh, one that I forgot, which I think wasprobably one of the best talks there besides my
own, of course, was I took a for a keynote,they brought and they had two keynotes, but the
(10:27):
second one, they brought in an HCP influencer.
So this guy is I'm pretty sure he's stillpracticing ER physician and started this
company to help HCPs become influencers.
One, he was a fantastic presenter.
Two, he showed really great data, and it wasjust a really, really good presentation.
(10:48):
And I thought that was really unique content.
Yeah.
Well and it was funny.
I was gonna I was gonna ask you next, like,which were there certain speakers that stood
out?
And I know you told me that.
Like, you literally came up.
I didn't see it.
And you came up to me after, like, that guy wasgreat.
That guy really
stood was awesome.
Yeah.
His name is Adam Goodkoff.
(11:09):
You can find him on LinkedIn.
His company is called med or Medfluencer.
He had a another thing that was really cool wascalled it a MAT score.
So this is an AI algorithm that they developedcalled medical accuracy test.
So they actually run HCP influencers contentthrough the algorithm to make sure that it's
really accurate.
(11:30):
Like, that's cool.
That it was a really, really cool talk.
And then Rebecca Vermillion, I can't say thatcorrectly, but she gave the other keynote and
discussed the difference between patientcentricity versus patient inclusivity.
And she said something that really stuck withme.
(11:50):
She said, if you write a clinical trialprotocol and then ask patients for their
feedback, that's not being inclusive.
And so her point was really about bringing inpatient's viewpoint or the patient voice early
on and throughout the entire process.
And she's just also a phenomenal speaker too.
She she came out roaring about how she's amorning person, and she already got her workout
(12:14):
in.
So that that was a fun session, a great way tokick off that day too.
I saw her in the gym, actually.
Oh, was she, like, pumping iron?
Like She's she's a beast, man.
She was, like, focused early in the morning.
She was in there locked in.
More like cardio, or is she more weight?
Like, what was she doing?
She was weight.
She was like I'm sure she did some cardio.
(12:36):
When I when I was there, I saw her doingresistance training stuff.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Interesting.
No.
She's getting it out.
She was I'm sure she's
gonna love us having this discussion about
She's perfect.
It's awesome, man.
She's a legend.
She's amazing.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yep.
So let's talk about your sesh.
So you did a session on artificialintelligence.
(12:58):
Obviously, such a hot topic right now.
And you guys, if you're not following Katrinaon LinkedIn, please.
Her LinkedIn and medical affairs value, youshould be following her because she is on the
cutting edge of all things AI and medicalaffairs value.
So what'd you talk about?
I did a session with Ralph Reuers, who is theYoda of medical affairs.
(13:21):
If you guys aren't connected with him, alsoconnect up with him on LinkedIn.
He is just so knowledgeable.
We joke that he was the original MSL from 1967and Upjohn.
But we gave a talk called AI in action.
And I had done something very similar a couplemonths back, and it was really well received.
(13:43):
So we took several MSL use cases for AI and didlive demos on ChatGPT.
So I just had prompts ready to go, put theprompts into ChatGPT, and ran it live.
And then we got reactions from Ralph and alsopeople in the audience.
The best part, in my opinion, was we did thehack on turning scientific papers into
(14:09):
podcasts.
I published on this last year.
I got this hack from Vivek Makhalpra.
I can't say his name right either, but youshould follow him on LinkedIn too.
It's since been one of the most popular hackson my blog, so definitely check that out.
But we arranged with the Fierce Pharma AV guysto play it live.
(14:29):
So instead of waiting for it to generate thepodcast because this takes a few minutes, we
have them play the clip.
So I showed them, hey, guys.
You can go to this tool, upload a scientificpaper, click generate, and it'll make a short
podcast for you.
Then we have them play the clips over thesound.
Everybody's eyes just popped.
(14:49):
They were like and then the best part was I hadtwo clips ready.
So one was kind of a generic podcast based offthe paper, but then a second the second one, I
had written prompt from the MSL perspective.
So saying, you are an MSL going to have a KOLmeeting to discuss this data.
What would be some of the objections orquestions that could come up?
(15:11):
So with the idea that an MSL could really usethis podcast to help them prepare for the
meeting.
This podcast starts with, hey, guys.
Big KOL meeting coming up.
It's just so funny, like, how it starts out.
Like, everybody loved that.
So that was a very long summary to say.
We did live AI demos of various MSL use cases.
(15:35):
And it really for those that haven't heard thispodcast and how it sounds, it really it's this,
like, kind of an NPR style.
NPR style.
Two people talking back and forth.
And it's just so clear, and you're just like,oh, it's it's
like just, like,
popped.
Yeah.
(15:55):
Can you talk about or and I don't know if youif we're giving away trade secrets here, but I
think one of the things that resonated with memost with, you know, your because I've seen you
present a million times on this, and one of thethings that has really helped me is your prompt
framework.
Can you talk a little bit about your promptframework?
(16:15):
Well, it's not mine.
I stole it from somebody else.
Full disclosure there.
But it's just a simple framework to help youensure that you are getting useful results out
of your AI chats.
Really simple based off of four framework orfour components, assigning the role, giving it
(16:37):
instructions, defining the parameters, and thengiving it some examples.
So you attended the talk, you got more detailson that, and it's just a really simple way to
ensure that you get high quality outputs.
If you're the type of person where you've putsomething in the AI and then you didn't like
it, it's probably because your prompts weren'tvery good.
So invest in learning a prompting framework,and that's really gonna boost your quality of
(17:02):
the output.
That's made a big difference for me.
And I'm not an expert, but I do use AI a lot.
And the it's really it's all about prompting.
So I think that's an important piece of it.
For those that missed your session and wannanot just follow you, but, like, is there a
(17:23):
place where you wanna direct people to findmore information as far as as far as AI goes
specifically?
Yep.
So on the medical affairs value blog, it'smedicalaffairsvalue.com.
I publish almost weekly on various medicalaffairs related topics.
And over the last several months, it's probably85% AI related.
(17:47):
So you can see all my new content there.
Additionally, through MSL Mastery, we have anAI for MSL excellence training.
If you go to MSLMastery.com, there's a littlebar at the top, and you could download the
brochure there to learn more about our trainingprogram.
So those are a couple different options for youto learn more about AI.
Yep.
Check it out.
(18:07):
And that and a lot of people ask, so I justwanna make sure we're we're providing them with
some direction.
Everybody could just email Tom.
Send Tom emails, and he'll write you back.
Yeah.
Or just DMs on LinkedIn.
He gets lots of messages.
Yeah.
Message.
Over and over again.
Okay.
Topics were not covered?
Like, was there something that you've was therea missed opportunity there?
(18:30):
Was there some topics that you felt probablyshould have been covered that maybe weren't?
Yes.
There was one, and I wrote about this on themedical affairs value blog.
I did a recap of Fierce Pharma in addition tothis podcast that I'm doing with Tom.
There was a lot about influence.
Right?
And this comes up in medical affairsconferences a lot.
(18:51):
We have to influence up laterally andexternally and really build relationships.
We hear this through insights and demonstratingvalue, and this was coming up especially in the
session on how to have more of an impact onclinical trials.
The topic that was missed or not discussed asmuch as I thought should have been was the fact
(19:14):
that everybody internally at a company wants toown the HCP relationship.
So a lot of the advice for medical affairs isown the relationship.
Own the relationship.
But what we know from working with a lot ofteams through training and consulting is that
everybody wants to own the relationship.
(19:35):
Right?
Clinical does.
Commercial definitely does.
Market access and then medical affairs.
And what we're seeing with the teams that wework with is that this leads to a lot of
conflict.
Right?
Because everybody owns the HCP relationship.
I think that was not discussed enough.
It was more of the conversation we normallyhave where we say, oh, medical affairs, you
(19:58):
should own the relationship.
Tom, what are your thoughts on that?
Well and I you know, it's so funny.
As you're saying that, I'm like, okay, FiercePharma folks.
Like, they're gonna listen to this.
And I think that that is something that theyshould be taking notes on because that's a
that's a really hot topic right now.
And I really do think that it's going to be asrelevant the next time they do this as it is
(20:23):
right now.
I I just think it's it's not there's not gonnabe any less importance six months from now or a
year from now.
Their next event is going to be Fierce Pharmaweek, which is in September in Philly.
I don't know if their agenda is finished yet,but that could be something that they may look
(20:45):
into is maybe including this.
We see that a lot.
Right?
We have a training at MSL Mastery that we callInfluenceLab because we have so many team leads
come up to us or come to us and basically say,we can't get along with interdepartment name.
Can you help?
Right?
So sometimes it's we can't get along withsales.
(21:08):
Clinical.
We have all this conflict.
We can't demonstrate our value.
So, yeah, I would say, Tom, not just a call toFierce Pharma to include it in the agenda, but
also for medical affairs folks to have thediscussion more.
Yep.
Yeah.
For sure.
Yeah.
What other takeaways?
Like, what what did you leave there with?
Was there a couple light bulb moments, or werethere some takeaways that when you were, like,
(21:33):
on the plane or you're heading home and you'relike, wow.
This really this was great.
I think I don't have anything past what I saidalready.
Let me think on it.
What were your big takeaways?
Yeah.
Well, I'll tell you.
And and I I I don't I don't mean to keeptalking about your session.
And and but I I do think that the the AI stuffresonated most with me and fine tuning.
(22:01):
So for me, fine tuning my process for what I'mputting into it's like, you know, you keep
hearing that term garbage in, garbage out, butit really is true.
Like, are you paying attention not only to whatyou're putting into your prompts, but how
thorough are you in vetting your prompts?
(22:21):
Meaning, I think what I would do, like, beforeyou're you know, seeing this last session is I
would go to, like, ChatGPT, for example.
I'd put in a prompt, and I'd be like, okay.
And maybe I'd, like, tweak it a little bit.
But now because I heard you say this.
Give me five more examples.
(22:42):
Yeah.
That's
Yep.
Right?
Switch this.
Add that.
Examples of this.
Give me five more.
Give me five more.
Give me five more.
That's not something that I was really doingenough of.
Like, I Yep.
Like, you can pester chatty PT.
It's not gonna get bad.
Yep.
For sure.
Was like, I don't wanna be a pain in the ass.
(23:02):
Like, you know?
But, like
Don't make the AI bad.
Yeah.
Like yeah.
But that, like, that's not what it that's notwhat it is.
Yeah.
It it actually is it's like, it actually getsmore excited the more you ask.
It's like, oh, that's a great suggestion.
So that I just think that that's really goodadvice in don't settle.
Don't settle for what you for something thatyou think may be okay.
(23:25):
Get what you want out of it.
You're using it.
Get what you want out of it.
Right?
That is I get a lot of comments on that.
So I published I can't remember when on thisthis prompt that Tom's mentioning, and I have
so many MSLs reaching out that they love that.
So just to summarize what it is, ChatGPT or AIshould really be used to help broaden your
(23:49):
thinking and get more ideas.
And so once you write a prompt and you get anoutput, you can ask it or tell it, give me five
more, give me 20 more.
Give me 10 more, and it'll just list moreideas.
And it will, I guarantee you, after a fewiterations of that, come up with something you
didn't even consider.
And so, yeah, if you if you get some output andyou don't like it, give me 10 more.
(24:14):
Give me five more, and just keep iterating.
Because I think the most powerful thing or waythat you can use AI in medical affairs is as an
MSL is to think more strategically and get morecreative.
So not that it's gonna do your tasks for you.
You're not gonna copy paste.
You're going to make yourself look really good,essentially.
(24:37):
Yeah.
No.
I love it.
I love it.
So getting back to the Fierce Pharma folks.
If you if you had to give them advice for nextyear and you wanted to, like, say, okay.
Here's my input.
What topics or themes or advice would you givethem down to the details of, like, food and
(25:01):
coordination of the event?
What would you say to them?
Definitely the one we mentioned earlier, makingit super clear that you can attend the other
sessions.
Like I said, I didn't know that.
And then when you're in the thick of it, I Ijust couldn't even I didn't have the capacity
to start looking through the schedule.
They invest heavily in the food and the coffeethere, and I think that really adds.
(25:24):
So outside of the break not the break room, thethe sessions, there was always coffee there.
There was a lot of food and coffee backed bythe vendors.
So I would say that's a good session or a goodthing.
In terms of topics, maybe hitting the theinfluence or who owns the HCP relationship or
(25:46):
more cross functional collaboration stuff wouldbe cool.
But, otherwise, I thought it I thought it waspretty great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What what about you?
I would add that first of all, I thought thefood was great.
I love the fact that they had a full breakfastin the morning.
I love that touch, and I'm sure it's
just seen the pile of eggs Tom had, you guys.
Like, he just comes in with eggs and, like,huge ketchup.
(26:09):
And you know what he said about all theketchup?
He said, you don't wanna go back for secondsfor ketchup.
It's it's but she was like, dude, I came in.
Right?
And, you know, like, I fast.
You guys know my my deal.
I fast, and then I try to get a lot of protein.
So I come in, and I sit down next to her, and Ihave this mountain of scrambled eggs.
And then right next to it is, like, a smallermountain of
(26:30):
ketchup.
Foothills.
She's like, dude, what are you gonna do withall that ketchup?
I'm like, I'd rather have too much because Idon't wanna go back and get more.
Yep.
And I did.
I used it.
I used it.
But I definitely appreciate that becausethere's nothing worse than going to a
conference and you and they don't feed you, andand you're just looking for food.
(26:53):
Like, I just don't like that.
And I know it's expensive.
I get it, but I think that that's reallyimportant.
The other thing is they were talking aboutsomeone actually mentioned that they didn't
think it was a good idea to have color codedlanyards.
They're like, oh, you don't need that.
It gets too confusing.
To me, that was a game changer.
(27:16):
How are you gonna know who's in your tribe andwho's not?
So my advice is if you're gonna do a conferencelike this where you're gonna have three or four
different groups, you're gonna I just thinkit's really important to distinguish who's in
those groups.
Not saying you can't encourage mingling withinthe groups, but you'd need to define who they
(27:39):
are.
So I think that that's really important.
I did not think that that venue I think they'regoing back there next year.
I think they haven't Oh, really?
There next I think so.
Someone told me that they did.
But the advice that I would have is I just therooms, like, the Don't
get the happy camper guys.
The happy camper room.
Don't get the
I was in the happy camper room, and I was not ahappy camper.
(28:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was awful.
Well, Tom had the worst room too.
His was all the way at the end where all thehousekeepers were lining up.
There was a it was haunted.
It was And
it smelled.
It was, like, smelly room, and it was just likethere was no hair dryer.
Right?
I had to I couldn't blow dry my hair.
It was catastrophe.
(28:22):
Right?
The last day, I had to get up super early to gocatch my flight, and the coffee machine
wouldn't work.
It broke.
Oh.
It broke.
Like, I'm like, dude, this place is haunted.
I can't wait.
So then I had to literally meet the Uber driverat 05:05 in the morning, rush to the airport.
I get to the airport.
I'm there two hours ahead of time.
My flight got delayed three hours.
(28:43):
Like, man.
Bad luck.
Bad luck.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you got your hair dried.
Right?
Dude, seriously.
Okay.
You know what?
Not a hair out of place.
So alright.
What what about last minute last piece ofadvice?
Anything you wanna share with the folks beforewe say goodbye?
If you have the opportunity to attend, I wouldhighly recommend it.
(29:06):
It was a a fun event.
The sessions were really good.
Had a lot of food and coffee there, if thathelps entice you.
But if you haven't checked out a Fierce Pharmasession yet, I highly recommend going.
Yeah.
And I like the people.
I I it's it's the one thing I love about FiercePharma is the the staff.
And I'm not just saying this, guys, if you'relistening.
(29:28):
Like, I've known these these guys for a longtime.
Z and Jessa and Andrew and Tom and just the thewhole crew.
Like, they it's it's nice when you're workingwith an organization that, like, they're
they've been around for a long time.
They care.
They put a lot of effort into it.
(29:49):
You know, it's it's definitely it shows in thequality of their events.
And they've been and, every event I go to, Ifeel like I walk away and, you know, equally as
impressed and satisfied with what you'regetting from going.
So kudos to Fierce Pharma and Quest X.
(30:12):
It used to be Quest X.
Now it's First Pharma.
Guys, check them out.
Now last thing I will say is this podcast is aco sponsor or copromoter of the Fierce Pharma
events.
So we are going to be involved in the promotionof Fierce Pharma week, which is in the first
(30:35):
week in September in Philadelphia.
So it's going to be a similar event.
It's gonna be bigger, though.
It's gonna be, like, 2,500 people, and it's atthe Convention Center in Philly.
So it might be something to start checking outand thinking about.
I'll definitely be there.
Maybe Katrina will be there, and maybe we'll doanother one of these.
Yeah.
(30:55):
Yes.
Cool.
Thanks for having me, Tom.
Yeah.
Thanks for being here.
I love doing these.
Thank you, guys.
As always, thank you for your support of theshow.
Thank you for sharing, and we'll see you nexttime.
Bye, guys.
Bye.
Hey, guys.
Welcome to the podcast.
This is going to be a very special episode withmy partner in crime, Katrina.
Hallett, welcome back, Katrina.
How are you?
Thanks for having me.
Appreciate it.
Exciting.
Yeah.
So Katrina and I just got back kinda sorta fromSan Diego.
Fierce Pharma Engage Twenty Twenty Five.
Great conference.
(00:23):
We're gonna do a recap.
We did this for maps.
A lot of people liked it.
So we were like, you know what?
We're gonna do this again.
We were at the show.
Some people you know, a lot of people missedit.
They couldn't make it, and they wanna seewhat's the latest and greatest.
So we're gonna do a recap, and we're gonna talkabout AI today because Katrina did an amazing
(00:45):
session on AI.
So many people are asking about it, so we'regonna talk about that.
Before we get to that, Katrina, why don't youtell me exciting news that we have from MSL
Mastery about AI?
Yes.
If you guys aren't on our newsletter,definitely sign up for that.
MSLMastery.com/newsletter.
(01:06):
The reason I'm mentioning the loo newsletter isbecause we officially launched our medical
affairs chatbot.
Her name is Mira.
She is trained on all of our content,frameworks, ideas, and she is awesome.
So think of her as a very knowledgeable medicalaffairs person that you can access and ask
(01:29):
questions anytime.
Mhmm.
It's fun.
It's actually a lot of fun.
She's so smart.
It's great.
It's so I had so much fun with it.
Yeah.
And so if you wanna access Mira, just go toMSLMastery.com.
And on the home page, she's embedded in thebottom right corner.
So you just enter your information, and thenyou can just start chatting away.
(01:53):
Ask her anything related to medical affairs,whether it's about better training programs for
MSLs, how to break into the industry, insights,whatever comes into your mind.
And like I mentioned, she's trained on ourspecialized medical affairs knowledge.
So this is not just any chatbot.
(02:14):
Oh, no.
It's great.
Like, people that listen to this show that arethat always have questions and ask questions.
Like, check it out.
I I know you guys are gonna get a lot of valuefrom it, and we're curious to hear what you
think too.
So let us know, but check it out.
She's so cute too.
She's, like, in the, like, lower right handcorner.
She got glasses on.
And
Red hair.
Like, red hair.
Yep.
Awesome.
Yeah.
(02:34):
So cool.
Alright.
So let's talk about the conference, and let'sstart with, like, the background details.
Like, can you tell everybody what is FiercePharma Engage?
Like, who's it for?
How many people were there?
Where was it?
All that stuff.
Well, Fierce Pharma Engage is a rebranding or,apparently, Mass West and Mass East were
(02:56):
purchased by Fierce Pharma.
So this is the new format that they are doingthese conferences around.
It was like prior additions, versions, sessionsof of MassWest was in San Diego.
But this time, what was really unique is thatthey combined four different tracks.
(03:17):
So there was one room dedicated to medicalaffairs, but there are also two sorry, three
other rooms that were dedicated to marketing,PR, and then BD and L.
So we were intermingling with all these otherpeople.
So, normally, think about it as it would onlybe medical affairs.
(03:40):
This time, it was four different groups ofpeople that were distinguished by the color of
the lanyards.
So me and Tom and all the medical affairspeople were orange.
Mhmm.
Yeah.
So it was interesting at some of the networksession networking sessions because people are
always looking for their lanyards color.
(04:01):
Right?
Like, oh, where are my medical affairs people?
Additionally, this was at a very nice resort inSan Diego, not too far for the from the airport
unless you get stuck in traffic like me.
It's really funny because you I was coming fromthe airport, and it's only, like, one exit, and
it took forever.
But just
That same
That timing.
Yep.
(04:21):
Bad timing.
But you walk in, of course, it's like thisCalifornia cool minimalist hipster lobby.
And then right through the building, you couldsee the pool.
And then there was all types of buildings onthe property.
I thought it was funny that when you look out,you saw the fierce pharma signs by the pool.
I was like, oh my gosh.
(04:41):
I didn't bring my swimmies.
Like Yeah.
What am I gonna do here?
Yeah.
The weather was beautiful.
The center was pretty nice.
The room's not so nice.
Tom can tell you all about that.
But what else would you add here, Tom?
My room was haunted.
Don't even get me started.
It was awful.
You always have the haunted room.
(05:01):
I am telling you, man.
I something is not right.
I get the worst rooms.
The venue, I thought, was very inviting becauseit was so, like, spacious, and it was a resort.
It was, like, it was a resort.
So, like, the pool setting, like Katrina said,I'll tell you that I thought one of the things
that really stood out to me was being a theweather was perfect every
(05:22):
So nice.
Being able to do a networking session the firstnight outside in this beautiful weather.
They did a really good job with it, and theythey had this the dessert, like, cookie tray
was, like, epic.
It was insane.
It
was beautiful.
Stood out.
(05:43):
It really was.
So that was exciting.
Yep.
Additionally, the resort was very dog friendly.
There were dogs everywhere.
People out walking their dogs.
So that was kind of fun.
Yeah.
I Yeah.
Totally agree with Tom.
Very spacious, very spread out.
So imagine everybody wearing the sunglasses inthe California sunshine walking over to the
(06:04):
sessions.
And getting back to so this format is new.
It used to be Mass West, which was just medicalaffairs, and there were probably anywhere from
a 50 to make maybe 250 people that would attendMassWest.
All medical affairs people.
Now you had, like, four times that.
(06:26):
Mhmm.
Maybe there wasn't as many medical affairspeople as they normally do.
I'm not sure.
They said it was about the same.
But it's again, you had to look at the lanyardsand had to kind of figure out who was in your
tribe versus who was in, like, the on the PRside.
Katrina, you've been to MassWest.
Obviously, we went last year, but, like, whatdo you think of the new format versus, like,
(06:49):
the MassWest format?
I thought it was kinda cool, and I think theydid a pretty good job trying to get people to
mingle.
So the vendor floor was one space.
The breakfast, lunch, networking were all onespace.
So everybody from all the tracks came into onelocation.
During my session, I saw some blue and purplelanyards.
(07:12):
So that means people were cross pollinating.
And I talked to a few medical affairs folksthat were actually going to the other talks as
well.
So I think that was pretty cool that we havethe opportunity to go out and network.
Did we?
No.
I mean, everybody's pretty clicky.
Right?
But I think it was cool.
The idea was there.
(07:33):
What did you think, Tom?
Well, so here's the interesting thing that Ithink that was cool that they gave you the
ability to cross pollinate and go to othersessions.
A lot of people were getting confused Mhmm.
Yeah.
And not thinking that they can go to othersessions.
It was actually because I talked to the eventplanners after.
(07:56):
It was encouraged.
But the reason people got freaked out isbecause they were getting their badges scanned
on the way in, but they weren't scanning totake to so that they didn't want you to go in.
They were scanning to keep track of how manypeople went to different sessions, like, cross
pollinated.
They just wanted to see Yep.
(08:17):
How many medical affairs people went to PR andso forth.
So for future reference, if they do this again,the idea and the concept is they encourage you
and they want you to go to see other sessions,meet other people, and learn from the other
groups.
You don't have to stay within your own group.
(08:38):
I didn't
realize that.
That was definitely a missed opportunity for meas well because I didn't realize that.
And we've all been to conferences where they'rescanning you before you go in the room, so I
thought it was gated as well.
And to be perfectly honest, I didn't even lookat the agendas for the other session.
So I I wish I did, but, yeah, definitely amissed opportunity there.
(09:00):
That's the feed that was the feedback that Igave to them.
I was like, that should be communicated betterupfront.
Like, maybe even at the registration desk, letthem know ahead of time on the way in, hey.
Feel free to go into some of the othersessions.
Yep.
Yep.
Definitely.
Okay.
Let's talk about the sessions.
Let's talk about, like, let's talk about thecontent.
(09:21):
Like, what themes stuck out to you?
Medical affairs theme stuck out to you most atthis event?
I love the sessions.
So one thing that I've always really likedabout Mass West and now Fierce Pharma is that
it is pretty small, and there aren't a lot ofdifferent rooms.
So everybody is going to the same sessions.
I thought that there was a really wide range.
(09:44):
So we hit all the classics, right, measuringimpact.
Some unique ones that I liked were increasingimpact in clinical trials.
They had a great panel on that.
A cool one that I thought was a little uniquewas how to build a medical affairs department
on a shoestring budget.
That was cool.
(10:04):
The omnichannel panel was really nice as well.
So I would say all the classic topics we wouldexpect to see at a medical affairs conference,
but a little bit leveled up.
Oh, one that I forgot, which I think wasprobably one of the best talks there besides my
own, of course, was I took a for a keynote,they brought and they had two keynotes, but the
(10:27):
second one, they brought in an HCP influencer.
So this guy is I'm pretty sure he's stillpracticing ER physician and started this
company to help HCPs become influencers.
One, he was a fantastic presenter.
Two, he showed really great data, and it wasjust a really, really good presentation.
(10:48):
And I thought that was really unique content.
Yeah.
Well and it was funny.
I was gonna I was gonna ask you next, like,which were there certain speakers that stood
out?
And I know you told me that.
Like, you literally came up.
I didn't see it.
And you came up to me after, like, that guy wasgreat.
That guy really
stood was awesome.
Yeah.
His name is Adam Goodkoff.
(11:09):
You can find him on LinkedIn.
His company is called med or Medfluencer.
He had a another thing that was really cool wascalled it a MAT score.
So this is an AI algorithm that they developedcalled medical accuracy test.
So they actually run HCP influencers contentthrough the algorithm to make sure that it's
really accurate.
(11:30):
Like, that's cool.
That it was a really, really cool talk.
And then Rebecca Vermillion, I can't say thatcorrectly, but she gave the other keynote and
discussed the difference between patientcentricity versus patient inclusivity.
And she said something that really stuck withme.
(11:50):
She said, if you write a clinical trialprotocol and then ask patients for their
feedback, that's not being inclusive.
And so her point was really about bringing inpatient's viewpoint or the patient voice early
on and throughout the entire process.
And she's just also a phenomenal speaker too.
She she came out roaring about how she's amorning person, and she already got her workout
(12:14):
in.
So that that was a fun session, a great way tokick off that day too.
I saw her in the gym, actually.
Oh, was she, like, pumping iron?
Like She's she's a beast, man.
She was, like, focused early in the morning.
She was in there locked in.
More like cardio, or is she more weight?
Like, what was she doing?
She was weight.
She was like I'm sure she did some cardio.
(12:36):
When I when I was there, I saw her doingresistance training stuff.
Oh, okay.
Okay.
Interesting.
No.
She's getting it out.
She was I'm sure she's
gonna love us having this discussion about
She's perfect.
It's awesome, man.
She's a legend.
She's amazing.
Yep.
Yeah.
Yep.
So let's talk about your sesh.
So you did a session on artificialintelligence.
(12:58):
Obviously, such a hot topic right now.
And you guys, if you're not following Katrinaon LinkedIn, please.
Her LinkedIn and medical affairs value, youshould be following her because she is on the
cutting edge of all things AI and medicalaffairs value.
So what'd you talk about?
I did a session with Ralph Reuers, who is theYoda of medical affairs.
(13:21):
If you guys aren't connected with him, alsoconnect up with him on LinkedIn.
He is just so knowledgeable.
We joke that he was the original MSL from 1967and Upjohn.
But we gave a talk called AI in action.
And I had done something very similar a couplemonths back, and it was really well received.
(13:43):
So we took several MSL use cases for AI and didlive demos on ChatGPT.
So I just had prompts ready to go, put theprompts into ChatGPT, and ran it live.
And then we got reactions from Ralph and alsopeople in the audience.
The best part, in my opinion, was we did thehack on turning scientific papers into
(14:09):
podcasts.
I published on this last year.
I got this hack from Vivek Makhalpra.
I can't say his name right either, but youshould follow him on LinkedIn too.
It's since been one of the most popular hackson my blog, so definitely check that out.
But we arranged with the Fierce Pharma AV guysto play it live.
(14:29):
So instead of waiting for it to generate thepodcast because this takes a few minutes, we
have them play the clip.
So I showed them, hey, guys.
You can go to this tool, upload a scientificpaper, click generate, and it'll make a short
podcast for you.
Then we have them play the clips over thesound.
Everybody's eyes just popped.
(14:49):
They were like and then the best part was I hadtwo clips ready.
So one was kind of a generic podcast based offthe paper, but then a second the second one, I
had written prompt from the MSL perspective.
So saying, you are an MSL going to have a KOLmeeting to discuss this data.
What would be some of the objections orquestions that could come up?
(15:11):
So with the idea that an MSL could really usethis podcast to help them prepare for the
meeting.
This podcast starts with, hey, guys.
Big KOL meeting coming up.
It's just so funny, like, how it starts out.
Like, everybody loved that.
So that was a very long summary to say.
We did live AI demos of various MSL use cases.
(15:35):
And it really for those that haven't heard thispodcast and how it sounds, it really it's this,
like, kind of an NPR style.
NPR style.
Two people talking back and forth.
And it's just so clear, and you're just like,oh, it's it's
like just, like,
popped.
Yeah.
(15:55):
Can you talk about or and I don't know if youif we're giving away trade secrets here, but I
think one of the things that resonated with memost with, you know, your because I've seen you
present a million times on this, and one of thethings that has really helped me is your prompt
framework.
Can you talk a little bit about your promptframework?
(16:15):
Well, it's not mine.
I stole it from somebody else.
Full disclosure there.
But it's just a simple framework to help youensure that you are getting useful results out
of your AI chats.
Really simple based off of four framework orfour components, assigning the role, giving it
(16:37):
instructions, defining the parameters, and thengiving it some examples.
So you attended the talk, you got more detailson that, and it's just a really simple way to
ensure that you get high quality outputs.
If you're the type of person where you've putsomething in the AI and then you didn't like
it, it's probably because your prompts weren'tvery good.
So invest in learning a prompting framework,and that's really gonna boost your quality of
(17:02):
the output.
That's made a big difference for me.
And I'm not an expert, but I do use AI a lot.
And the it's really it's all about prompting.
So I think that's an important piece of it.
For those that missed your session and wannanot just follow you, but, like, is there a
(17:23):
place where you wanna direct people to findmore information as far as as far as AI goes
specifically?
Yep.
So on the medical affairs value blog, it'smedicalaffairsvalue.com.
I publish almost weekly on various medicalaffairs related topics.
And over the last several months, it's probably85% AI related.
(17:47):
So you can see all my new content there.
Additionally, through MSL Mastery, we have anAI for MSL excellence training.
If you go to MSLMastery.com, there's a littlebar at the top, and you could download the
brochure there to learn more about our trainingprogram.
So those are a couple different options for youto learn more about AI.
Yep.
Check it out.
(18:07):
And that and a lot of people ask, so I justwanna make sure we're we're providing them with
some direction.
Everybody could just email Tom.
Send Tom emails, and he'll write you back.
Yeah.
Or just DMs on LinkedIn.
He gets lots of messages.
Yeah.
Message.
Over and over again.
Okay.
Topics were not covered?
Like, was there something that you've was therea missed opportunity there?
(18:30):
Was there some topics that you felt probablyshould have been covered that maybe weren't?
Yes.
There was one, and I wrote about this on themedical affairs value blog.
I did a recap of Fierce Pharma in addition tothis podcast that I'm doing with Tom.
There was a lot about influence.
Right?
And this comes up in medical affairsconferences a lot.
(18:51):
We have to influence up laterally andexternally and really build relationships.
We hear this through insights and demonstratingvalue, and this was coming up especially in the
session on how to have more of an impact onclinical trials.
The topic that was missed or not discussed asmuch as I thought should have been was the fact
(19:14):
that everybody internally at a company wants toown the HCP relationship.
So a lot of the advice for medical affairs isown the relationship.
Own the relationship.
But what we know from working with a lot ofteams through training and consulting is that
everybody wants to own the relationship.
(19:35):
Right?
Clinical does.
Commercial definitely does.
Market access and then medical affairs.
And what we're seeing with the teams that wework with is that this leads to a lot of
conflict.
Right?
Because everybody owns the HCP relationship.
I think that was not discussed enough.
It was more of the conversation we normallyhave where we say, oh, medical affairs, you
(19:58):
should own the relationship.
Tom, what are your thoughts on that?
Well and I you know, it's so funny.
As you're saying that, I'm like, okay, FiercePharma folks.
Like, they're gonna listen to this.
And I think that that is something that theyshould be taking notes on because that's a
that's a really hot topic right now.
And I really do think that it's going to be asrelevant the next time they do this as it is
(20:23):
right now.
I I just think it's it's not there's not gonnabe any less importance six months from now or a
year from now.
Their next event is going to be Fierce Pharmaweek, which is in September in Philly.
I don't know if their agenda is finished yet,but that could be something that they may look
(20:45):
into is maybe including this.
We see that a lot.
Right?
We have a training at MSL Mastery that we callInfluenceLab because we have so many team leads
come up to us or come to us and basically say,we can't get along with interdepartment name.
Can you help?
Right?
So sometimes it's we can't get along withsales.
(21:08):
Clinical.
We have all this conflict.
We can't demonstrate our value.
So, yeah, I would say, Tom, not just a call toFierce Pharma to include it in the agenda, but
also for medical affairs folks to have thediscussion more.
Yep.
Yeah.
For sure.
Yeah.
What other takeaways?
Like, what what did you leave there with?
Was there a couple light bulb moments, or werethere some takeaways that when you were, like,
(21:33):
on the plane or you're heading home and you'relike, wow.
This really this was great.
I think I don't have anything past what I saidalready.
Let me think on it.
What were your big takeaways?
Yeah.
Well, I'll tell you.
And and I I I don't I don't mean to keeptalking about your session.
And and but I I do think that the the AI stuffresonated most with me and fine tuning.
(22:01):
So for me, fine tuning my process for what I'mputting into it's like, you know, you keep
hearing that term garbage in, garbage out, butit really is true.
Like, are you paying attention not only to whatyou're putting into your prompts, but how
thorough are you in vetting your prompts?
(22:21):
Meaning, I think what I would do, like, beforeyou're you know, seeing this last session is I
would go to, like, ChatGPT, for example.
I'd put in a prompt, and I'd be like, okay.
And maybe I'd, like, tweak it a little bit.
But now because I heard you say this.
Give me five more examples.
(22:42):
Yeah.
That's
Yep.
Right?
Switch this.
Add that.
Examples of this.
Give me five more.
Give me five more.
Give me five more.
That's not something that I was really doingenough of.
Like, I Yep.
Like, you can pester chatty PT.
It's not gonna get bad.
Yep.
For sure.
Was like, I don't wanna be a pain in the ass.
(23:02):
Like, you know?
But, like
Don't make the AI bad.
Yeah.
Like yeah.
But that, like, that's not what it that's notwhat it is.
Yeah.
It it actually is it's like, it actually getsmore excited the more you ask.
It's like, oh, that's a great suggestion.
So that I just think that that's really goodadvice in don't settle.
Don't settle for what you for something thatyou think may be okay.
(23:25):
Get what you want out of it.
You're using it.
Get what you want out of it.
Right?
That is I get a lot of comments on that.
So I published I can't remember when on thisthis prompt that Tom's mentioning, and I have
so many MSLs reaching out that they love that.
So just to summarize what it is, ChatGPT or AIshould really be used to help broaden your
(23:49):
thinking and get more ideas.
And so once you write a prompt and you get anoutput, you can ask it or tell it, give me five
more, give me 20 more.
Give me 10 more, and it'll just list moreideas.
And it will, I guarantee you, after a fewiterations of that, come up with something you
didn't even consider.
And so, yeah, if you if you get some output andyou don't like it, give me 10 more.
(24:14):
Give me five more, and just keep iterating.
Because I think the most powerful thing or waythat you can use AI in medical affairs is as an
MSL is to think more strategically and get morecreative.
So not that it's gonna do your tasks for you.
You're not gonna copy paste.
You're going to make yourself look really good,essentially.
(24:37):
Yeah.
No.
I love it.
I love it.
So getting back to the Fierce Pharma folks.
If you if you had to give them advice for nextyear and you wanted to, like, say, okay.
Here's my input.
What topics or themes or advice would you givethem down to the details of, like, food and
(25:01):
coordination of the event?
What would you say to them?
Definitely the one we mentioned earlier, makingit super clear that you can attend the other
sessions.
Like I said, I didn't know that.
And then when you're in the thick of it, I Ijust couldn't even I didn't have the capacity
to start looking through the schedule.
They invest heavily in the food and the coffeethere, and I think that really adds.
(25:24):
So outside of the break not the break room, thethe sessions, there was always coffee there.
There was a lot of food and coffee backed bythe vendors.
So I would say that's a good session or a goodthing.
In terms of topics, maybe hitting the theinfluence or who owns the HCP relationship or
(25:46):
more cross functional collaboration stuff wouldbe cool.
But, otherwise, I thought it I thought it waspretty great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
What what about you?
I would add that first of all, I thought thefood was great.
I love the fact that they had a full breakfastin the morning.
I love that touch, and I'm sure it's
just seen the pile of eggs Tom had, you guys.
Like, he just comes in with eggs and, like,huge ketchup.
(26:09):
And you know what he said about all theketchup?
He said, you don't wanna go back for secondsfor ketchup.
It's it's but she was like, dude, I came in.
Right?
And, you know, like, I fast.
You guys know my my deal.
I fast, and then I try to get a lot of protein.
So I come in, and I sit down next to her, and Ihave this mountain of scrambled eggs.
And then right next to it is, like, a smallermountain of
(26:30):
ketchup.
Foothills.
She's like, dude, what are you gonna do withall that ketchup?
I'm like, I'd rather have too much because Idon't wanna go back and get more.
Yep.
And I did.
I used it.
I used it.
But I definitely appreciate that becausethere's nothing worse than going to a
conference and you and they don't feed you, andand you're just looking for food.
(26:53):
Like, I just don't like that.
And I know it's expensive.
I get it, but I think that that's reallyimportant.
The other thing is they were talking aboutsomeone actually mentioned that they didn't
think it was a good idea to have color codedlanyards.
They're like, oh, you don't need that.
It gets too confusing.
To me, that was a game changer.
(27:16):
How are you gonna know who's in your tribe andwho's not?
So my advice is if you're gonna do a conferencelike this where you're gonna have three or four
different groups, you're gonna I just thinkit's really important to distinguish who's in
those groups.
Not saying you can't encourage mingling withinthe groups, but you'd need to define who they
(27:39):
are.
So I think that that's really important.
I did not think that that venue I think they'regoing back there next year.
I think they haven't Oh, really?
There next I think so.
Someone told me that they did.
But the advice that I would have is I just therooms, like, the Don't
get the happy camper guys.
The happy camper room.
Don't get the
I was in the happy camper room, and I was not ahappy camper.
(28:01):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It was awful.
Well, Tom had the worst room too.
His was all the way at the end where all thehousekeepers were lining up.
There was a it was haunted.
It was And
it smelled.
It was, like, smelly room, and it was just likethere was no hair dryer.
Right?
I had to I couldn't blow dry my hair.
It was catastrophe.
(28:22):
Right?
The last day, I had to get up super early to gocatch my flight, and the coffee machine
wouldn't work.
It broke.
Oh.
It broke.
Like, I'm like, dude, this place is haunted.
I can't wait.
So then I had to literally meet the Uber driverat 05:05 in the morning, rush to the airport.
I get to the airport.
I'm there two hours ahead of time.
My flight got delayed three hours.
(28:43):
Like, man.
Bad luck.
Bad luck.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But you got your hair dried.
Right?
Dude, seriously.
Okay.
You know what?
Not a hair out of place.
So alright.
What what about last minute last piece ofadvice?
Anything you wanna share with the folks beforewe say goodbye?
If you have the opportunity to attend, I wouldhighly recommend it.
(29:06):
It was a a fun event.
The sessions were really good.
Had a lot of food and coffee there, if thathelps entice you.
But if you haven't checked out a Fierce Pharmasession yet, I highly recommend going.
Yeah.
And I like the people.
I I it's it's the one thing I love about FiercePharma is the the staff.
And I'm not just saying this, guys, if you'relistening.
(29:28):
Like, I've known these these guys for a longtime.
Z and Jessa and Andrew and Tom and just the thewhole crew.
Like, they it's it's nice when you're workingwith an organization that, like, they're
they've been around for a long time.
They care.
They put a lot of effort into it.
(29:49):
You know, it's it's definitely it shows in thequality of their events.
And they've been and, every event I go to, Ifeel like I walk away and, you know, equally as
impressed and satisfied with what you'regetting from going.
So kudos to Fierce Pharma and Quest X.
(30:12):
It used to be Quest X.
Now it's First Pharma.
Guys, check them out.
Now last thing I will say is this podcast is aco sponsor or copromoter of the Fierce Pharma
events.
So we are going to be involved in the promotionof Fierce Pharma week, which is in the first
(30:35):
week in September in Philadelphia.
So it's going to be a similar event.
It's gonna be bigger, though.
It's gonna be, like, 2,500 people, and it's atthe Convention Center in Philly.
So it might be something to start checking outand thinking about.
I'll definitely be there.
Maybe Katrina will be there, and maybe we'll doanother one of these.
Yeah.
(30:55):
Yes.
Cool.
Thanks for having me, Tom.
Yeah.
Thanks for being here.
I love doing these.
Thank you, guys.
As always, thank you for your support of theshow.
Thank you for sharing, and we'll see you nexttime.
Bye, guys.
Bye.
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