Episode Transcript
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(00:31):
Can you reach financialindependence by retiring abroad?
If Your life costs $7,000 amonth here in the United States,
your financial independence oryour fine number is one thing.
If it costs about $3,500living abroad, it's a completely
different ballgame.
So the answer is yes, movingabroad can help you reach financial
independence or FI sooner.
Not automatically, notmagically not.
(00:54):
Because every country outsidethe United States is cheap and easy
and safe and gay friendly.
That's me.
We're welcoming Americanretirees with cocktails.
But yes, also you.
But yes, moving abroad canchange the math.
Hello, rainbow people, I'm John.
And I'm David.
And today on Queer Money,we're talking about moving or retiring
abroad as a path to reachingfinancial independence sooner or
(01:16):
easier.
So the basic FI formula orfinancial independence retire early
formula is simple.
Spend less than you make,invest the difference, build enough
assets, you, your wealthpyramid as we like to refer to it,
so that those assets then cansupport your life.
But most people only focus ontwo parts.
How much do I earn?
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And how much can I invest?
They forget the third part,how much does my life actually cost?
That is where moving orretiring abroad can become powerful.
Because if you can lower yourcost of living without lowering your
quality of life, why wouldn't you?
Your phi number would ofcourse drop.
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And this is when you realizethat geography may be your biggest
hurdle to your financialfreedom and your ability to retire
early or retire at all.
All right, so let's make thissimple, or as simple as we can make.
Math for the mathematically challenged.
But if you need $80,000 a yearto live in the United States comfortably,
using the outdated 4%withdrawal guideline, that means
(02:22):
you would need about $2million invested to be able to have
financial independence, or asFI as we'll call it from now on.
But if you can lower that andlive well abroad, $40,000 a year,
that roughly reduces what youneed to save or invest to about a
million dollars.
That's dramatic.
Dramatic.
How many more years do youhave to work to save an extra million
(02:42):
dollars?
Right.
So lower your annual expensescan dramatically lower the amount
you need to save for financial independence.
Then that, that, that's aboutgeo arbitrage or geographic arbitrage.
You can earn, save and investat a higher cost economy and then
live in a lower cost place andstretch those dollars a lot further.
I think this is part of thereason why we just watched something
about why so many people movedto the south over the last, especially
(03:06):
during and since the pandemic,people moved to the south, because
they were trying to takeadvantage of the fact that the south
was traditionally a lot lowercost, a place to live.
And, and that's slowlychanging, especially for the locals
there.
But I think that this is, thisis the important thing here is, you
know, you can think aboutretirement and you can think about
(03:28):
financial independence in verytraditional terms.
But if you want to expediteany of that, you're going to have
to get out of your 48contiguous state borders and start
thinking about things differently.
Not just saying, just aboutgetting out of outside the United
States.
I'm just talking about, thisis the box you need to get out of.
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And for many Americans, retire.
Saving for retirement isn'tnecessarily about cutting costs like
lattes.
It's really about cuttingcosts when it comes to the big things.
What are your housing costs,what are your healthcare costs, what
are your transportation costs,your insurance costs?
Especially if you live in azone where there have been a lot
of natural disasters or issuesrelated to global climate change.
(04:13):
And of course there are taxesas well, all those things can play
into how quickly you can getto your retirement number faster.
And so there, I think thereare really two paths we need to be
thinking about here.
The first path here is kind ofthat classical path, Save.
Invest in the U.S. hit your number.
Then you move to Portugal,Thailand, Brazil, or wherever it
(04:37):
makes sense for your life.
This takes advantage ofsecurity, right?
You're building up that security.
You're building up your confidence.
You have that confidence inyourself and your earning potential.
And the challenge with thatthough, is that it's like it's always
something that you're aspiring to.
It may not ever actuallyhappen because none of us is guaranteed
tomorrow, right?
It's, it's motivating to keepyou going.
But like you said, it may takea long time to save a million dollars,
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especially if you are in yourlate 20s or early 30s and you're
listening or watching this,listen who are watching this, that
may seem like it's a long ways away.
And when you consider thedownside here, the downside is that
you are US based.
So your cost of living is US based.
And that may be the barrier orthe thing that keeps you keep having
(05:25):
to keep working, right?
You may work an additional 5,7, 10 extra years because you're
funding a lifestyle that youeither don't need or maybe you don't
even want here at US prices.
The second option is livingabroad to reach your financial independence
number faster.
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And this basically means youmove before you are fully fi.
Move before you have all themoney saved.
Maybe you're working remotelyor you're free.
A freelancer or you do consulting.
You are a teacher.
You teach English as toforeign individuals.
Right.
You are building a smallbusiness that is global.
(06:08):
You can live and work whereveryou want.
Or maybe you even do seasonal work.
I actually just heard a story of.
Now this isn't necessarilypeople who are working five, but
my parents were telling meabout some friends of ours who lived
in Ireland and the two boyswho are older now, they are married.
They and their wives live inSouthern Ireland, Europe.
(06:30):
But they go to Ireland for twomonths during the spring and they
are window washers and theyspend their whole day working seven
days a week or I think six anda half, six to seven days a week.
But they do this for twomonths and they make enough money
during that time period to beable to live in Southern Europe for
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the rest of the year.
They don't need to work duringthat time period.
So you may be able to find asituation like that.
Yeah.
So in this, in that particularversion, going abroad isn't the prize
after you reach financialindependence, it's really part of
the strategy.
You reduce your expenses whileyou're still earning income, then
invest the difference, butonly if the income is real and the
visa actually allows it.
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And then we're going to talkabout some of the caveats here shortly.
And only if living.
If you're living abroad, notlike a tourist, but actually like
somebody who lives there.
Because tourist spending iscompletely different than people
who actually live there.
Tourist spending can eat upall that geographic arbitrary charge
like nobody's business.
Right.
Because vacation David is avery different spending habits, has
(07:32):
very different spending habitsthan does he.
Tuesday David.
Oh really?
Yeah.
Tuesday David says order the.
I'm sorry.
Vacation David says order the bottle.
Tuesday David says we have boxand wine in the refrigerator at home
and a spreadsheet to look out.
Not anymore.
We did when we were trying to.
Reach 5 or pay off our debt.
And that's why the math has tobe based in real life.
(07:54):
It can't be based on Fantasy Island.
Right.
And I think that this is whyit, this can work really well.
Moving abroad can help becauseit attacks that big problem.
And that big problem is the expenses.
What expenses can I lower?
Most people try to reachfinancial independence by pulling
that one lever, right?
(08:14):
Earn more.
I've got to have that highpaying tech job which don't seem
to be so secure.
Too easy to get right now.
But that does help, right?
You do need to have thatsteady income stream or you do need
decent amount of.
You need to be earning adecent amount of money.
But the problem is thatsometimes those jobs that help you
earn that kind of money canlead to burnout.
(08:34):
They're unstable.
As we just mentioned, you areageism, right?
There is a thing we just didthat episode not too long ago.
Exactly.
And with things shifting withAI and healthcare, you just never
know, right?
The second lever is theinvesting one and that's the one
we're always going to betelling you do.
You got to pull that one.
Because you can.
You'll never be able to reachinto financial independence just
(08:57):
earning a paycheck.
You've it's an asset basedeconomy, you can't get income.
Although we do know we justhad a retirement readiness review
client who got a windfall of asignificant amount of money that
is going to afford him to, tobe able to retire.
That's the worked his butt offin tech and finally one of the companies
that he worked for wentpublic, or not public, was bought
(09:19):
out.
So that that third lever thatwe're talking about here is that
that's the expenses, right?
This is not an easy button,but it can be a cheat code if you
are deciding to attack thiswith geo arbitrage.
If you are reducing yourmonthly expenses from $7,000 down
to $4,000, this isn't skippingbrunch money, right?
This is real major change toyour budget.
(09:42):
Having that extra $3,000 amonth that you can throw into, into
the market, you know, that's$36,000 a year.
After 10 years, you're lookingat probably close to three quarters
of a million dollars if youhave decent growth.
So you have to ask yourself,is there another city, another country,
another lifestyle where youcan still be safe, be seen, be connected,
(10:04):
but at a much lower cost?
That's the very reason why wedo this entire international gay
cities, retirement city series.
Because we want to exposepeople to other options that are
maybe available to them.
And this isn't about escape,this is all about design.
You know, one of the newtaglines we've adopted recently is
retire by design, not by default.
Moving abroad isn't aboutisn't just a retirement hack.
(10:26):
It's actually a life designchoice, right?
If you hate your spending, ifyou hate your job, if you hate your
city, if you hate yourhealthcare system, if you hate your
politics, you hate yourcommunity, there are other options.
Be looking a little inward ifyou hate everything, right?
But to your point, none ofthis will actually benefit you if
(10:47):
you don't examine your lifeand figure out why it is you're retiring
abroad.
Because if you do retireabroad or do move abroad so that
you can reach financialindependence earlier, you're still
taking yourself with you, right?
You're still with you when youget there.
So you bring your habits, youbring your relationship with money,
you bring your expectations.
All that just comes with you.
So what do they say?
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An unexamined life is notworth living.
So yes, you can use this as astrategy to reach financial independence
earlier.
But you have to remember thatthere's one variable, one major variable
that's not going to change.
Are you saying maybe I'm the problem?
It's me.
Tay Tay does not need us topromote her anymore.
She has enough money.
So the goal isn't to run awayfrom the United States and hope life
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is.
And hope life and the mathjust work out.
The goal is to design a lifewhere the math, the lifestyle, the
community and the country allwork together.
That's what we mean byretiring by design signed, not by
default or retiring unbound.
I think the runaway life andhaving it all work out only happens
in the movies.
Right?
Right.
It's.
We hear those.
These are the 12 in a millionkind of stories that actually happen.
(11:53):
Yeah, 100%.
And the queer money retirebroad planner and calculator, maps
and maths.
All this out for you so youdon't have to wonder what you're
missing or what comes next.
Grab yours in the link in thedescription of this YouTube video
or in the link in your podcast player.
So a reality check here.
This moving abroad can shortenyour timeline for financial independence,
(12:16):
but that's only if you planfor the parts that Instagram leaves
out.
Right?
It is really important to makesure that you are doing this with
a plan.
There are a lot of differentmoving parts here.
You have visas.
How long can you or do youwant to stay in a particular country?
Are you allowed to work inthat country if you are there as
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not.
All visas allow that option, Right?
What do you need to be able toget a res, get residency in that
country?
Are you able to bring yourspouse or partner if you want to?
Would you go without?
I would never go without you.
I'd kill you first.
The next is taxes.
Americans are taxed on theirglobal income, so moving abroad isn't
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going to mean that you don'thave to pay taxes.
In the United States, theremay be foreign tax credits, exclusions,
treaties, all sorts ofplanning strategies that you'll want
to talk to an accountantabout, but you will still pay taxes
and definitely do talk to aqualified accountant before making
this move.
And please remember, as anAmerican, don't just move to another
country and think that you'renot going to pay taxes if you're
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using the services in that country.
We know a lot of you arethinking about retiring abroad because
you want access to better healthcare.
If you want to do that, youneed to pay your fair share.
Otherwise you're just a brokeElon Musk.
Or Jeff Bezos leeches.
Right?
Speaking of healthcare, Ithink that's another big thing for
a lot of folks.
If you, I will say if you'reworking remotely and you are employed
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by a company that promotesremote work, you may be able to stay,
maybe access their healthcaresystem and do that globally.
But if you're not, you'restill, you're gonna want to make
sure you are still taking careof yourself.
And this is maybe the reasonwhy moving your timeline up for retirement
from those earlier earlyyears, like in your 50s and 60s,
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you're able to spend time inoutside of the country that allows
you to reach financialindependence by the time you reach
65 and come back to the UnitedStates and you get access to Medicare.
Remember, if you're over 65,Medicare doesn't cover you when you're
living outside the United States.
So back home for that, you'regoing to want to do your research
when it comes to tohealthcare, especially if you have
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pre existing conditions likebeing HIV positive.
Yeah.
The other concern is currency risk.
As we know a lot of people whoare currently living abroad are dealing
with some of those challenges.
And finally, lifestyle creepexists abroad.
Girl, you can overspend anywhere.
Thailand has resorts, Spainhas tapas, Brazil has beautiful men
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and nightlife.
And the gay budget knows howto accessorize, especially abroad.
Gays are fancy.
Airwear.
Airwear.
So yeah, yes, going abroad canhelp, but it only if you run the
numbers and you're honest withyourself about it.
So can moving abroad help youreach financial independence faster?
Yes, of course.
Yes.
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It lowers your real cost of living.
It preserves or improves yourquality of life.
And if your income, visa,taxes, healthcare and community all
work out, it is a great option.
But please make sure you'redoing it with a plan, not shotgun.
Exactly.
(15:31):
And if this episode has youwondering whether moving abroad or
retiring abroad may help youreach your financial independence
number quicker, let us know inthe comments.
We'd love to hear that.
And this is exactly as we saidearlier, why we created the Career
Money Retire Abroad plannerand calculator.
So if you want to get accessto that, click the link in the video
description or this video orin your podcast player.
So retire by design, not by default.