How to Pitch Terraset (and other carbon removal buyers)—w/ Taylor Insley, Terraset

What do you think of a developer who pitches a carbon dioxide removal buyer as they are coming out of the restroom? Or can't even enjoy some friendly scones while we all get caffeinated? Or interrupt conversations with business cards?! Forgetting that buyers are people with names and feelings and limited social energy is a tough look to beat.

At a recent Carbon Unbound in Vancouver, today's guest—Taylor Insley, the Director of Strategic Planning for Terraset—was on a panel that made a splash: she was telling developers, basically, that the way many of them approach buyers is counterproductive.

I wanted to talk to Taylor because she sits in an unusual position. She spent most of her career as a fundraiser, soliciting donors for causes she cares about. Now at Terraset, the turntables have turned. She's the recipient of pitches for tax-deductible and highly catalytic CDR and other climate interventions. And that perspective shift has taught her something about what works and what doesn't that I think is genuinely useful for anyone trying to raise money in this space.

But this episode also goes somewhere uncomfortable. We talk about fairness. About whether it should matter that you're charming and diplomatic, or whether the science and economics should be all that counts. About status and in-groups and the fundamental hypocrisy of caring about relationships when you're on one side of the table and resenting them when you're on the other. I brought in the Chinese Imperial Exam, The Godfather, Love on the Spectrum, whether dogs are communists or private property lovers depending upon who has food... It was a lot, but I think we successfully got to the core of this topic.

Taylor's single best piece of advice: "Tell me how to do my job better." If you understand what Terraset is trying to accomplish and can help them get there, you're gold. If you're running up with a video of your kiln in a pyrolysis cycle... maybe don't?

This Episode's Sponsors

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hey, thank you. SO.
Much for listening to Reversing Climate Change.
This is Ross Kenyon. I'm the host of the show.
The two sponsors are eco engineers and Philip Lee LLP.
Oh, eco engineers. What isn't eco engineers?
I've had a really great vantage point of carbon dioxide removal
and so often I'll start talking with a company and they will say

(00:21):
something like, Oh well, we've been working with Eco Engineers
for a while now, either trying to build this methodology,
you're just trying to figure this project out, trying to get
the quantification right, tryingto figure this MRV out.
That has happened to me so many times and I've been glad to see
them have so much success with so many companies in our space.
Eco Engineers is essentially A consultancy that helps carbon

(00:42):
removal tech and project developers get to market
effectively. If you've ever started a
company, one of the early decisions that you're going to
need to make is which of these things can we bring in house and
which of these things do we needto pay consultants for?
And often the conventional knowledge here is that it always
makes sense to bring stuff in house if you can.
But I think bringing in very experienced consultants early on

(01:07):
can save projects a lot of time and money.
For instance, you might end up on the phone with David Lagreca.
Dave's going to be on the podcast soon and David has done,
I don't know, dozens of methodologies within the
voluntary carbon market. And if you could just get on the
phone with David for a little bit and you are trying to bring
a new methodology or protocol tomarket, you have some new

(01:29):
approach. You're a biochar project and
you're trying to figure out, given your technology, region,
biomass availability, what is the best way for me to work
within the options that I have available to me?
That's a person that you could very easily be paired with.
David will likely shave off timeand money from what would
otherwise be a process that is pretty overwhelming.

(01:52):
And that's just the start of it too.
ECO has been engaged with peopleI I've known or worked with from
everything from project design to the actual MRV plans, doing
the LCA itself, registering the project, doing the diligence
support, feasibility studies, tech evaluations, market
eligibility. I feel like they're halfway to

(02:12):
being an EPC without actually being an EPC is for some of
these things. Sometimes you don't necessarily
need one person full time thinking only about your
project. Sometimes it makes sense to get
10 people on a fractional basis who have worked on collectively
hundreds or maybe thousands of projects.
Whether or not that will be the way for your company to go,

(02:33):
you'll have to take the calls tofigure it out.
And I think I very much. Think you should do that?
The link is in the show notes. If you'd like to get in touch
with Eco Engineers, tell them Ross Kenyon sent you.
Philip Lee LLP is a law firm with a lot of experience in
carbon markets and carbon removal.
If you've been working in this space for really any amount of
time, you probably have noticed that you do need competent

(02:56):
counsel to do business here. The contracts that get signed
are frankly pretty weird. You're going to need help from a
lawyer with a red pen, I'm sorryto inform you.
Your only choice is basically who they should be.
And if you are deciding who theyshould be, you should be
considering Philip Lee LLP. They've won Environmental

(03:16):
Finances VCM Law Firm of the Year for the last GOSH since
2023. Essentially, it hasn't happened
yet for 2026. I imagine they're a contender
for. It this year as well.
They are the largest legal team dedicated to the financing and
development of carbon projects globally and they have offices
in the US, Europe and the UK. One cool new thing I just
learned actually is that they have been listed as a firm in

(03:38):
Chambers Global as a global market leader in the area of
climate change. This listing alliance Philip Lee
LLP with around 15 to 20 of the leading law firms practicing in
this practice area in the entireworld.
So Congrats to Philip Lee LLP. Thank you to Philip Lee LLP for
your generous support of the show.
You make it possible for me to dedicate so much time to putting

(03:59):
out content that I hope is useful to our friends and peers
and fellow travellers in the world of carbon removal, climate
change and carbon markets. Thanks so much.
Here's the show. Hey out there.

(04:19):
Thank you so much for listening to Reversing Climate Change.
I am the host of the podcast Ross Canyon.
I've worked in carbon dioxide removal and climate tech for
nearly ten years now. Today's episode has some very
useful advice, or at least I hope it does for developers
within Cdr. Or I suspect this is probably
applicable beyond climate tech itself and it's just good

(04:42):
selling. Before I tell you about why I
think this is the case, a quick ask if you could please open up
your podcast app right now and give this show a full rating on
Spotify or Apple Podcast. On Apple Podcast you can also
write a quick review, which is almost certainly the most
impactful thing you can do besides sharing it on social
media, engaging with it on LinkedIn or or on Sub Stack.

(05:03):
Very high leverage. And also I'm just trying to do
more stuff on Sub Stack right now.
The link to follow me there and support the podcast are in the
show notes. At the start of the year there
was a Carbon Unbound in Vancouver, Canada and today's
guest was on a panel that made abit of a splash.
Her name is Taylor Inslee. She is the Director of Strategic

(05:25):
Growth at Teracet. Teracet is one of the funders of
carbon dioxide removal and othertypes of climate impact projects
and they see themselves as beingvery catalytic.
One thing that's fascinating about them is that they have tax
deductibility within their program.
So those that contribute to Cdr or other climate projects

(05:45):
through Teracet are able to do so in a tax deductible fashion,
which is fairly uncommon, to putit lightly.
Taylors made a career within philanthropy in speaking with
donors and trying to connect them to projects that they care
about. Taylor knows a lot about selling
in this way. How do you get?
People that are maybe high net worth individuals, family

(06:06):
offices, people who want to do good but maybe don't know
exactly what they want to do with it.
And Taylor helps them decide that they would actually love to
do it. Through Taylor's preferred
causes is partially how she seesher work.
If I can put words into her mouth here.
And that has taught her a lot about how to raise money for
impact. But in her role at Terracet, the

(06:29):
turntables have now turned. As was once famously said, she
is now the recipient of pitches and this has changed so many
things about how she views her work and how it can be
successful. So this presentation that she
gave at Carbon and bound this panel, Taylor was talking about
how many of the people who wouldapproach her and try to pitch

(06:51):
their project, We're doing so ina way that ultimately ran
counter to their goals. They were pitching her as she
was coming out of the restroom. They were pitching her without
even the bare necessities of social grace, by which I mean
asking how someone is their name, introducing oneself,

(07:11):
etcetera. And one thing that I come back
to over and over again as we're discussing this, is that a
fairness? It seems like all that should
matter within climate change is whether or not something works.
If you've worked in climate or carbon removal or probably
anywhere else that involves humans and hierarchy and status

(07:31):
is that there actually is a fairamount of diplomacy necessary to
be successful. You can be successful without
diplomacy, and in fact, many people end up building careers
around that. But it is also one of those
things that at the very least doesn't hurt and in many cases
can actually help push a projectover the line.
Relationships do matter. I do think there's something

(07:54):
that makes us very uncomfortableabout acknowledging the
importance of relationships. In fact, Taylor and I sort of
squirm our way through some of this interview trying to figure
out why Does this feel weird to talk about?
Are we being unkind to our peersthat are maybe less social in
this way? Should this stuff even matter at
all? Shouldn't we just be judging by

(08:14):
the raw unit economics here? Why are we even bothering with
whether or not we feel connectedto people?
Why does that matter? And honestly, it does feel soft
and sort of foolish to say that out loud.
It's one of the reasons why somecompanies will put less emphasis
on the interview relative to thestrength of 1's resume.

(08:36):
It also makes me think of the mandarins in China.
You know, hundreds of years ago,if you wanted to get a civil
service position, all that mattered was did you do well on
the test. It was a true meritocracy and it
was not based upon your family name or how successfully you
were able to suck up to the other Mandarin in the meeting.
All that mattered was, did you bring the goods?

(08:58):
And if so, you're going to get the job.
So we do attempt to understand fairness and power and status
and how all these things interact here.
We challenge that while also noting that this might just be
the way that humans organize themselves.
And insofar as we do care about relative status and wanting to
make sure that ourselves and ourfriends end up on the good side

(09:22):
of status, they're also situations in which you will not
feel that way. One of the things I've been
thinking about a lot is there are certain places within
climate tech where I am considered to be a person of
modest distinction. People say, oh, I've heard your
voice, or like, oh, I know, I know, I've heard.
I see your stuff around LinkedInor oh, I love the memes or

(09:44):
whatever. But there are also rooms that I
go into where I will have a reaction that they're just
unimpressed by me. I suspect this is true of
everyone. When I'm in that room where I'm
clearly not impressed, my interlocutors, my sensible peers
in this room just feel like humor or creativity or

(10:09):
engagement with these types of ideas are not meaningful to you
in the same kind of way, or you just don't like the way that I
do it. And that feels bad.
And then there's a sense that, oh, status games are are a big
croc, basically. And then you can sole yourselves
with things like Ecclesiastes and the, you know, the rain
falls on the just and the unjust.
You're like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(10:31):
But then even as I will experience those feelings, I
will also sometimes be speaking with people in their manner will
rub you the wrong way, or you think that what they are doing
is just sort of inferior or unlikely to work.
And you will also make a judgement that ends up feeling
hierarchical, where you will have judge this group or this
technology or this person as being not a part of the in Group

(10:55):
but actually someone that is outgrouped in some way.
And in fact, some of the consulting work I do is with
people who maybe take on the rhetoric and the personal style
of someone who is of the out group.
And some of my coaching work is what is blocking you from seeing
yourself as more a member of thein Group because otherwise you

(11:17):
come across as someone with a chip on their shoulder.
You end up being unnecessarily critical of groups that would
otherwise be interested in what you're doing because you're so
focused on your exclusion. But you're also Co creating your
own exclusion by failing to playby these social interpersonal
rules that are often unstated but are actually really

(11:37):
important. It's like I end up working with
people on stuff like that too. I do love the reminder of the
fundamental hypocrisy, at least of myself, if not a universal
thing about humans, that it is not very fun to be treated as a
member of the out group and to be out status and reminded of it
by people. But then also those same

(11:59):
patterns, the same dysfunctions,the same exclusions one will
enact against others at moments too.
There's a great meme that I love.
It's 2 frames of a of a dog witha bowl.
The top panel is it says something like my dog when it's
looking at my plate and it has the hammer and sickle, you know,

(12:20):
Soviet communist flag. Why?
Why don't we all just share? Couldn't civilization be better
when we share? And then it's my dog when it's
looking at his bull and it has the gods and flag of don't tread
on me. I can just hear the Fife and the
snare drum playing in the background.
There versus the Soviet choral orchestra.

(12:43):
And it's funny to think about like how one position changes
how 1 feels about a certain circumstance.
One of the uncomfortable bits ofbeing a human is is how much
status does matter. This is a toxic thing.
This is not a good thing. But some portion of if you've
ever been upgraded or had the financial ability to have first
class eating or even premium economy, some portion of the

(13:05):
enjoyment is knowing that you are better served than others on
the flight and are more comfortable.
It isn't just the absolute good of the thing itself, like some
portion of the enjoyment I thinkfor many people is knowing by
relative terms you are better off.
In fact, I've seen some social science research that absolute
measures of inequality don't matter that much.

(13:26):
What we care a lot about is our relative status in relation to
others. People think as long as everyone
has their needs met, they'll be satisfied and won't be comparing
themselves against their neighbors or their peers.
But actually, the relative status of us matters a great
deal. These are really powerful
influences on us. I can say these things and know

(13:48):
that I have some of that inside of my own heart, and that
doesn't necessarily make it excitable.
Noticing that it's there doesn'tmake it easier to let it go in
some sense. So Taylor and I attempt to
untangle what is actually a verythorny, ethical and practical
set of decisions here. And at the very least, I hope

(14:09):
you will walk away with some positive information about how
to pitch to Teracet and to Taylor specifically, but also
some lessons about how to tailoryour message to the audience
that you have at hand. And this is also a reminder that
you are playing the long game. You're not trying to just get in
and close as quickly as you can.You'll be much better off with

(14:31):
patience, with building a relationship, with trying to
help people. This is a Machiavellian way of
understanding. I don't, I don't really like
putting it in the this way, but I sometimes take more general
meetings that I need to because you really never know who you're
going to be able to connect later.
Sometimes I've taken a general meeting, general by which I mean

(14:53):
we don't have some specific, we're here to talk about this,
but we're just going to know each other and and see what
people are working on And if there's anyone that we can
connect them to, that might be useful.
And sometimes that leads to immediate work or relationship
or I'm able to connect them withsomeone right away or or them
me. But sometimes it might be 18
months or three years and I'm like, Oh yeah, like who was that

(15:14):
person doing that interesting. Like electrochemistry thing with
critical minerals? Oh yeah, I do let me.
Oh yeah, that was Tyler such andsuch.
And then boom, e-mail sent, relationship made things are
good connected two people that wouldn't otherwise have known
each other. And now they are doing something
together. And that is so thrilling.
And I think being able to do that is, is a really important

(15:38):
part of this. And if you're able to build some
of those relationships up early,the time may come when life has
shunted you in a particular direction and then the good
things can find you as well. Those relationships can help you
in turn, for instance, for investors or buyers that you
know if you are in a position tomake their lives easier, even if
it does not immediately benefit you in the exact way you might

(16:01):
like. For them, being a customer
investor of yours, it's always good to help people find what
they are looking for and to makeconnections they wouldn't have
made themselves. Because the time may very well
come when you would like. You can't even, you can't even
say this without going to that godfather.
You come to me on the day of my daughter's wedding and you ask

(16:23):
me for a favor. You can't say the day may come
and favor in the same sentence. I won't do the Marlon Brando.
I can't. I can't do it.
But the you know, you come to meon the day of my daughter's
wedding, and you ask me for a favor.
And the time may come that I maycome to ask you for a favor.
That's a really quid pro quo transactional way of
understanding this. But we are in vocational work to

(16:51):
address climate change. And that means sometimes you are
doing things that are for the good of the ecosystem as a
whole, maybe even things that are good for your potential
rivals. But this is a way of building
the ecosystem that needs to be built for us to have a lick of a
chance of halting or even reversing climate change.
I did not intend for this to be a super long intro, but I think

(17:14):
this is a good intro for relationships, thinking about
how to have an impact in your field, whether that's in carbon,
removal of climate attack or something else, as it is advice
that has served me very well through my career.
All right, here is my chat with Taylor Inslee.

(17:36):
Taylor, thank you for being here.
We've been talking about 10 a terror set show for a while now,
but your recent carbon unbound performance, I was going to say
your panel ship. What is like, what is like?
How do I speak English about this?
You were on a panel and you weretalking about weird experiences
of being a a buyer of carbon removal credits and how for some

(18:01):
reason that that confuses everyone and it turns them in
like turns the thinking part of their brain off.
And they are they are behaving in ways that are are counter to
their goals. Is maybe one way to say is that
pretty much what happened? That's a phenomenal way to do
it. It does feel like they turn the
thinking part of their brains off sometimes and forget that we

(18:22):
are also just real people. Yes, gosh.
What is your experience like as a buyer of credit?
So part of the way that I conceptualize it is I imagine
many people want to be famous, but then the stories of being
famous sound really annoying. It's like you can't really go
anywhere. Everyone notices everything you

(18:42):
do. One time a friend of mine was in
town from from the East Coast and we're eating at a restaurant
in LA. It was not that nice of a
restaurant. And it was like fast casual and
like kind of nice. And I saw someone out of the
corner of my eye and it was AdamSandler and didn't even like see
his. I just like knew it was like
that. I'm Sandler for sure.
Just knew you saw the big T. Shirt he looked like he did with

(19:05):
just like big daddy was just like long gym shorts and like
visor. That's all.
It's just like real not trying. Everyone obviously notices him.
This guy's an A Lister and has been for a super long time and
so has to like walk in. Everyone has their hand up for
like high fives and he doesn't stop and chat but he there goes
the high fives. He can't just exist.
Everything he does is noticed insome way and I'm wondering do

(19:27):
you connect with this experience?
Do you have a Sandler esque carbon removal experience I.
Think I think you could say thatTeraset is the Adam Sandler
you're. Talking about Adam keeps a
neckbeard. Is that what you're saying?
He needs to shave a little more thoroughly.
Yeah, exactly. No, it it's interesting because
I think we are this quasi like we are a buyer, but we are this

(19:51):
quasi buyer where we move money in a very specific type of way
that I think is really accessible to people.
But I do think that it's an incredible, it's it's, it is
complex. It's a little complicated for
people to understand. And yeah, I think sometimes, you
know, we're not the the big Googles and the Microsoft's, but

(20:11):
I do think. Because we are a nonprofit and
we try to be more accessible. We go to places like Unbound and
we try to like interface with developers and projects and
other partners. And it, it can get a little, a
little pitchy off the bat. And I feel like some of the best
partnerships I've gotten have come from those events.
But it's like running into somebody over scones at Unbound.

(20:34):
It's not, it's not the running up to me with a a video of
methane leaking out of a a gas well, you know, that's it's
interesting. Oh, I guess when people approach
you, is there an attempt to proceed with normal etiquette?
Is there like a hi, how are you,how was your flight kind of

(20:57):
thing Or is it just, this is my shot as long as I don't stop
talking, they can't walk away kind of thing.
Like tell me some like anecdotessufficiently anonymized.
You're not humiliating anyone that we can identify.
But tell me about it. Yeah, I think it is.
It is a lot. I'd say 75% of the interactions
I have are like that. And I will say, even anonymized,

(21:17):
I, there was one point at a recent unbound where I found a
buyer, a big buyer, like sittingby a bar with a sweatshirt
hoodie over his head because he was like, I just need a couple
minutes to breathe. Like, because I think it is this
and it comes from a good place. These, these companies need
support, they need buyers, they need money, they need capital to

(21:40):
move their projects forward. And so I totally resonate with
that, especially as a fundraiser.
Like I am also fundraising so I know what it's like.
And I think in some ways it's made me a better fundraiser
because I realized what works and what doesn't.
But yeah, the ones that rememberthat I have two kids are the
ones that remember I live in Boston and asked me about that.

(22:00):
Or even just say like, hey, like, where are you flying from?
Like I feel like I'm way more likely to have those
conversations than than the onesthat run up and say, hi, I'm
going to give you my 32nd pitch and here's my card.
I will say one other one was again anonymizing, but there was

(22:21):
a period of time at Undown New York like 2 years ago where I
was sitting at a chair at one ofthe like back rows and I was
just trying to breathe for a couple minutes because, you
know, it's a lot post COVID, it's a lot of lot of talking.
And so I just needed a couple minutes and I was sitting next
to a developer, but I had no idea I was a developer.
It was someone I had never met. And they watched four different

(22:42):
other developers come over and sit in the chair across from me
and pitch me. And by the end of it, the
developer that was sitting next to me was like, I don't know how
you just did that. That was crazy.
He's like, and I was going to pitch you, but now I'm not going
to pitch you like that. And now that's somebody that we
have a relationship with becausewe were able to kind of, you
know, endure that together. We should create some sort of

(23:08):
augmented reality, virtual reality tailor experience here.
Just like, what is it like to beyou at one of these things?
You feel like it's really uncomfortable and it doesn't
work. And also like, how do I get out
of it? Like are you going to want to
hang out for a super long time if you can't just have a normal
conversation with someone? My guess is probably not.

(23:31):
Yeah. I mean, I, here's the thing,
like I said, I think this sectorneeds more buyers to be
accessible. And I think being honest about
the interactions that get you what you need out of buyers is
more valuable than us just saying like, well, we're not
going to go to these things, youknow?

(23:52):
So yeah, I I get tired, but espresso gets me through, you
know, espresso an honesty. I can imagine someone listening
to this and feeling frustrated that the personal, the
diplomatic, the charm matters because something as important
as climate, you should just think that you need economics

(24:12):
and the path to scale. Those are the things that should
matter how good the science is, not whether or not you enjoy
goofing around and talking aboutscones at the the breakfast
buffet. Like, why should that matter?
Does it? Or is it maybe the problem with
you and not actually with her? Maybe I'm not.
You are the the call is coming from inside the house, Taylor.

(24:34):
Sorry. Correct.
Here's the thing. I've I, I may be the problem.
I will say that we not to be like we're different, but Terra
set is different in the set. We are a different type of
buyer. We are a buyer, but we are
different in the sense that we do care about the impact, we
care about the intersectional approaches, we care about the

(24:54):
stories that are coming out of these projects and we have very
human relationships with all of the companies in our portfolio.
So because we're connecting themto the donors who do care about
impact. So I think for us, and one of
the things that I think I talkedwith Lauren Wiley about on stage
at that Unbound thing was that every buyer is going to care

(25:17):
about something a little bit differently.
Like I'm not saying that the science doesn't need to be sound
or the methodologies don't need to be proven or the economics
need to make sense because all those things are also true.
But if you want to break in a little bit to the to the how do
I want to say it? Like you're going to get a lot

(25:38):
further with, I think a lot of us, a lot of these buyers who
are one man teams or one woman teams by having relationships
with us. And as somebody who fundraises,
like I said, I, I get that. Like I have a lot better rapport
with the funders that I know more about and I can get a
coffee with or have that kind ofrelationship with.

(26:00):
And I think right now this sector is in such a do or die
moment that we forget that we are all in this together and
we're all, we're all aiming for the right things and the same
things for the most part. How would you approach it if a
project developer came to you and what they were doing was

(26:24):
incredibly impactful, but they were a difficult person.
But their social niceties are not present.
They aren't necessarily someone that you're having fun on a call
with, but this technology and orthis project is really
impactful. How?
How do you determine whether or not it's worth entering into a
medium to long term relationshipwith someone like this?

(26:48):
I mean, that's not a reason to not fund someone.
I think if there's a, if they have a project that's really
interesting, impactful, unique in the space and it aligns well
with what our donors are lookingfor it, it's worth pursuing it.
I think my point is more you anyone can apply through our

(27:08):
intake form online and we will evaluate all of them based on
merits and diligence and we willreply to them based on whether
or not they fit. You'll just be expedited through
that process. If I can remember, oh, we just
got, you know, 500K that's meantfor biochar in Kenya.
And I remember talking to this person that was really

(27:30):
wonderful. For whatever reason.
I want to, I want to reach out in that moment and think about
them, not the people who were, you know, just through our
intake. I will get this request
sometimes of who can you introduce me to with the buyers
and my response, which I'm hoping you can either confirm
this or tell me that it doesn't work this way.

(27:51):
But the response that I believe for a long time is that these
people all have RF PS out for the most part.
They want to find good projects.Your job is to do a really good
job responding to the RFP and metrying to help you back channel
or cut in line in some ways is not super helpful.
In fact, you should probably spend all of your time making
your application good. And then maybe like a little.

(28:13):
Chat after you've read this document super well and know
what they're looking for and connect with them.
Maybe at that point it's worth aconversation, but also it's
probably just best to follow their protocol.
Walk through the front door witha really good app and if it's a
fit you will get a meeting. You don't necessarily even need
my help for this. Is that true?

(28:34):
Yes and no, I think. I think yes and no.
I think for big buyers, yes, that is true.
Like you trying to back channel to Microsoft's team, probably
not going to be it, but I can't speak for them because I'm
making, I'm moving way, way lower dollars than they are.
For us, it is actually because we have 450 in our pipeline that

(28:58):
have applied to us like we're going through them, but we're a
team of three. So like we can only go through
them as fast as we can go through them.
I think the one part I really doresonate with with what you're
saying is how do I say that? Yes, it yes, I think there is a
a back channeling that is useful.
If you came to me and said, hey Taylor, I know this really cool

(29:20):
company that I think would be perfect for Terrace that's pre
purchase model. I would absolutely take a call
with them because I trust you and I trust their trust your
judgement. There are plenty of times where
developers will come to us or even apply to us and be asking
for $2,000,000 in a certain typeof capital that we don't
provide. And so I think there is real
value to looking at even just assimply as looking at a website

(29:45):
before you talk to buyers or before you apply for their webs
through their portal or intake. But yeah, I would also say
though, not all buyers have RFPs, like some are still
building, right? Like I think through our
revolving fund, we're finding it's an on ramp for a lot of
companies that are more small and medium sized that have never

(30:06):
done this before. And so it's their first time and
they don't even know where to start.
And I know Tito is running a lotof really good work with air
miners around education for that.
But it a lot of that is just through relationship building
and trust of other people, otherpeers saying like this is what
I'm doing and we're going to, you know, I'll go in on this

(30:27):
with you for a first or second time.
So yes and no is my answer to you.
There are some points at which myself or someone who has a
relationship with with buyers can help, but there's also a
limit to it. I can't really browbeat Aiden
into making Milky Wire do something that they're not going
to do. If the application is half baked

(30:49):
then it's probably still going to get rejected.
You still need to do the work. You can't jump over the hard
work of doing a really good application.
I would say unless. Have you ever seen an
application though, that countersignals where it's like we're
too busy to focus on communication and we're too busy
doing the science and engineering this so well that we
we don't actually have a beautiful pitch deck or
something else like is that thatworks on you?

(31:12):
Oh, no. Oh, I'm just saying you get
that, but it doesn't work or does it?
Oh. It doesn't work, but I get that
all the time. Yes, 1000%.
And I think one of the things actually that I've been talking,
we have these two donors that are really, they do a bunch of
business advising and start up advising.
And they have been like, do you know, any companies that, you
know, we would offer our time ordonate our time to kind of

(31:35):
provide guidance on how you do some of that?
And so that's something I want to work on with our donor
network is there's not really a way to volunteer in this sector,
but that could be a very interesting way to support, you
know, these are big Fortune 500 type companies that could help.
You're laughing. I wrote.
I wrote this this section of an essay recently that got cut

(31:57):
first base that I love. Sorry.
Do you want to finish your thought before I go on this?
No, I want you to tell me your thoughts.
There was a time in startup culture where counter signaling
was super prominent and it wouldbe like, I don't know, probably
closer to like late 20 teens where it's like we're too busy.
Like making cool product, like comms are what the dumb people
do and we don't really care about that.

(32:17):
Flash is associated with less rigor and the the high watermark
of that for me was seeing Sam Bankman freed on stage with Bill
Clinton and Tony Blair and he was wearing like the gym shorts
and the the dad shoes and like AT shirt you're with former
statesman. It doesn't do what you think it
does. Like if this is counter
signaling it's it's dead. It's receded since then.

(32:39):
I see it way less common, but even still, there are people in
companies that I work with even recently where I'm like, I know
you're like a brilliant scientist and I know your
technology is really cool and I'm happy to work with you on
it. This slide deck looks like it
was made for Geocities. And no one is going to give you
extra credit because you're so busy doing other stuff.

(33:00):
You need to hire someone. You need a designer or this is
not going to work. And sometimes they take that
advice and sometimes they disagree with me.
I'm like, OK, but now I'm going to send us this podcast, Taylor
said. 1000% like 4 times in a row.
Are you listening to the shows? Yeah, she'll be farther from the
mic. Now, but it's also yes, it's the
designer and it's like making itlook pretty.

(33:22):
I mean, Terra Sotta has a prettysimple brand on purpose.
And that's because one of our, Imean, one of our board members
was the head of brand stripes. So she, I mean, she's got, she's
very intentional about our brand, but it's, it's.
I've got Hershey watchers on brand it before.
It's OK, yeah. Shout out to Erji.
She also caught me this job. So yeah, it I think it's less

(33:42):
about graphic design though, andmore about more about
storytelling or how to communicate information.
Like I, I will always go back tothis.
I have worked my, the majority of my career has been in
conservation and environment andclimate.
And I barely knew about carbon removal.

(34:04):
I knew what it was when you think about the bathtub, but I
did not know until I took this job like what ERW was.
And I think so much of this field is this technical and
scientific jargon that is so inaccessible, and we just assume
that other people are going to do their own research and figure
it out. And it's just not how it works.

(34:28):
And so if you want to bring in new buyers to the space who have
never done this before, it's incredibly intimidating to be
throwing around these scientificand technical words and phrases
that make no sense to anybody else.
And I remember it was my first week at Teresa and somebody
showed me, and this is about me,This has nothing to do with the
developer. Someone showed me a video of

(34:48):
something that was on fire and was telling me it was biochar.
And I remember being like, this doesn't feel like a climate
solution, like I'm not understanding because it's just
they just dove right into the into the science instead of
being like, no, the story here is that we're creating something
that's going to help these farmers in this specific region

(35:09):
and it's going to bring these jobs.
And I think that is the stuff that people are caring about
more and more. Whether that's more of a burden
on companies or not, I think that's a whole conversation.
But it is, I think it is important to be able to tell
those stories better. I think it feels unfair to a lot
of people, especially if they'renot naturally loquacious.

(35:29):
Someone who likes running their mouth on a podcast on a regular
basis didn't mean for that to rhyme.
But now I'm rapping. Oh.
What do I do now? You got it Riff, I can be talks
for you. That's right.
I think at some point in my lifeI realized that diplomacy counts
for potentially way more than itshould.
And it may not actually be fair,but some of these intangible

(35:52):
humanities based feelings based things, they do count.
I think people who come from STEM fields have a harder time
making sense of why that might be, if not fair than just woven
into the fabric of reality of interpersonal human
relationships in a way that theyare not naturally advantage to
succeed at. And that is very frustrating.

(36:12):
So we should try to get some positive advice here.
Maybe this is a nice transition into that segment, but let's
imagine that they are maybe someone who's very passionate
about what they're building, butthey don't feel as comfortable
with social niceties. Or they feel like this is their
shot and they better get this sentiment out right now.

(36:34):
This is their chance to pitch. And maybe they don't have what
is. I don't think it's like a way to
to say this. It's not mean or pejorative in
some way. Maybe someone who is that
particular flavor of nerd that has a harder time with this type
of thing. Can we coach them into?
I don't know if I'm going to keep this in If you watch Love
on the Spectrum. Of course.

(36:56):
What's the like dating coach name?
What's like what's her name? I'm just.
Thinking about time. Dude, we yeah, yeah.
I just want to put him in my pocket.
Connor. Yeah.
Do you, are you also into swordsand fantasy novels and all of
that? I know.
There you go. You're that's you could probably
be buds. And I need a world.

(37:18):
Connor and I date, but unfortunately I have a wife and
he's in Atlanta, so it's. True, you know, not not too far,
OK, but I guess there's like a coach in that show.
I don't even know if I might keep that in the.
Yeah, but. Like some, some of this does
require a little bit of coachingof, OK, you've gotten by on your

(37:38):
smarts to date in your scientific and technical
engineering life, and now you'recoming up on a situation where
that still matters quite a lot, but it's not everything.
How do we make sure that people at Carbon and Bound approach you
in a way that might actually feel restorative, relational,
good to you in a way that you would want to keep a

(38:00):
conversation going? Yeah, I, gosh, I feel like such
a jerk now that I'm like, if youwant to talk to me, you have to
say like, that's not what I mean.
Because here's the thing. At the same time, I'm also
thinking like I would look at anyone's deck and give them if
they genuinely wanted feedback on like as someone who does
storytelling and communications,like I would have no problem

(38:23):
taking 30 minutes to look at 15 different decks of companies who
are who don't have comps capacity.
You know, I think asking for asking a partnership for that.
I think just to answer directly your question, like you walk up
to me or another buyer that happens to be an ad unbound, I

(38:43):
think asking, Hey, you work at Terra set what's important to
you guys right now? What's something cool that
you're working on? And then that answer should
inform or will inform how you pitch your project.
And I think some of that is justjust human connection and some
of that is, I also think there'sjust a general etiquette bit

(39:06):
about if somebody's talking to somebody else, letting them
finish the conversation before you jump in there with a pitch
and a business card that. Happens to.
You, yeah, more often than you think.
But I think that's, again, I, I get, I get the urgency, like the
climate crisis is urgent and us being able to pay bills and

(39:28):
support our families with our jobs by selling XYZ is urgent.
But I do think there's a, there's a, there has to be a
middle ground somewhere. I think here I have AI have a
like a an idea of an approach that I would share with you.
Let me know, would this work on you?

(39:49):
That sounds that sounds like almost manipulative.
I'd like, yeah. But I'm gonna do it.
Let's. Go OK, project developer
listening, expand your horizon time wise a little bit and say,
I emailed you Taylor and said, hey, I'm so and so this is my

(40:09):
company. This is what we're building.
We're not really ready for like a proper conversation with
Terracet yet, but we want to be ready for something like that
six months from now. What are some of the steps that
we could take to make sure that when the next RFP or the next
opportunity comes around, we arebest able to take what we have
now and have it ready that this would be a fundable Terracet

(40:31):
project? Would you like receiving an
e-mail like that or no I. Love an e-mail.
You get that because I already No, no, that's the first time
I've ever heard that I would. I already as you're talking, I'm
in my head. I'm like, here are the three
things I would say make sure youhave answers to Wow, do.
Do you have them ready? Yeah, 1 is that especially right

(40:52):
now and I think for at least therest of this calendar year,
we'll be looking at what opportunities are catalytic in
that. And I know that's a buzzword and
I hate using it, but it's the only one I can use in this
moment where we are deploying X amount of capital as a pre
purchase and it is unlocking a milestone, an investment
opportunity. It's backing a loan.

(41:14):
It is what is the thing that it is doing more of because we we
aren't moving tons of money. We're moving a couple $100,000
here or there, right? I mean, it's a lot of money, but
it's not we're not moving, you know, we're not making $100
million off takes. That's not where we're at.
So great example is just, I think we're, I don't know when

(41:35):
this podcast is going to go out,but we're announcing next week
that we've done a 200,000 dollar, 200,000 LB pre purchase
that's unlocked a £1,000,000 loan.
And that was a deal that we stitched together.
And when then we brought in an off taker at another $50,000
like. And so those types of deals are
the ones where we're finding we're able to move the needle

(41:56):
for these companies and move them instead of from A to B,
like A to C or try to help them get.
So I think a a clear example of that is helpful.
I also think we're just not in nature based right now.
And there's not really a clear reason for that other than our
diligence process doesn't it just removes them.

(42:19):
It's something we're exploring, but we're not doing it right
now. And I think I get a lot of
pictures from nature based from just like we're just, we're
trying to be better about sayingno.
We're trying to be better about just saying some of the best
conversations I've had with funders is when they're like, I
love what you're doing, but I'm going to tell you, right, Like
this is not a fit. And it's great because then you
can be like, awesome, it's not afit.
I'm going to move on instead of trying to chase you for six

(42:40):
months. So we're trying to be better
about that. And there was a third thing, but
I don't remember it. One line I I love I I know that
you're going to love it too. You've probably heard it.
Is that quick? No is only slightly worse than a
slow yes. Like I like it when I get that
too. Like, yeah, I didn't have to set
annoying reminders on my e-mail.My, my board member this past

(43:04):
week actually told us believe the no, but don't believe the
why or question the why. And I think that's really
helpful, right? So believe the no understand
that like whatever their why forno you could probably change it.
Wow. I guess you have to believe a

(43:24):
little bit and you it's hard to be in business and or being
fundraising and not want to keeptrying if you know that there's
money to be had. But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, at
some point you have to give up, but that's another ongoing issue
of being a nonprofit and fundraiser.
Yeah, for sure. OK.
So that approach would work and then the example that you gave a

(43:46):
just like having a normal human,how do you do fellow kids kind
of conversation with you to trying to trying to relate in
some way that isn't going right for the clothes like right away.
Yeah. But I, I do want to say though,
I get it. Like I am also constantly
fundraising. Like it is hard when I see

(44:09):
somebody who works at a major foundation, like floating around
at the coffee stand and I'm like, how do I get in there and
not just immediately say, hi, This is Tara said, I want you to
give me money. Like I just there's a finesse to
it. And I think it's worth investing
as a team or a company investingin people who know how to do
that. Well, I do.
That's something that I feel like the some of the best

(44:30):
developer teams that I've met have first and foremost sound
science, good projects. And then they have it.
They have people who know how tofinesse that depending on who
they're talking to. My version of this is.
That I get so many inbound pitches for podcasts and I say
yes to like 1% of them, maybe less.

(44:52):
And it's only if it's like someone who almost didn't even
like they're reminding me that someone that I wanted to speak
with anyways is sort of on the market to be on shows.
I'm like, oh, they're, they havea book coming out like sure,
let's let's do it. But half the time I'll get them.
Like I've done a couple episodeson wine and climate change and I

(45:13):
get pitches sometimes where it'slike, we love your show.
Here's a show about why decanting is outdated and we're
changing the way that we decant.I understand this is AI driven
and you probably send a slop to everyone but like.
All come with the. Same package too.
It's like. I loved your recent episode with
AI looking at the episode and like inserting it and that's why

(45:35):
I'm pitching you a thing that has literally nothing to do with
it. I'm just like, oh OK.
But even like the ones that are closer, it'll be a pitch that's
something like, this is an episode with this founder who's
is ready to talk about why business can be like a
environmentally positive thing. I'm just like, this is maybe the
worst pitch I've ever heard. Like this is you know what?

(45:56):
You know what? I've gotten this pitch 10 times
this week. And also it was boring the first
time I got it. Like there's like 400 episodes
of this show. Like, give me something.
This is the 400 episodes you got.
To say something, I think, yeah,it's like the show.
Is just like trying to get real and have like deep conversation.
And so I don't know, but I thinkprobably someone coming up to
you and if they understood me, whenever I've had successful

(46:18):
pitches and had really fancy guests on, I've got been able to
get authors on it. And the way that I'll do it is
one, it's easy if they have a book coming out, but also I will
read literally everything they've ever written and I'll be
like. I've read your eight books or.
Whatever. And This is why I think you
should come on. And I've been able to get guests

(46:38):
who would never appear on any other climate podcast 'cause
they would. They're like, I don't work on
this. Like I don't care.
I'm like, here is why you shouldchoose me over like everyone
else. And I know you well enough and
your work well enough to make a pitch that is very unique to
you. I feel like some of the customer
discovery work as a developer incarbon removal is probably
understanding you as a person, what you like and also what

(46:59):
Terra set as an organization likes and knowing your audience
and making sure you're you're pitching that thing right over
the plate and you're not sendinga thing about like why you're
wine decanting podcast and more.It is more the.
Second one, it is more understanding terracet than it
is about me. You know, it's more
understanding what we're lookingfor, what we do, the role we

(47:21):
occupy in the space. And I think that is relevant for
all buyers. Like every buyer is going to be
looking for somewhat different things.
And I think until we get whatever version of this market
is like truly up in the scale, it's just that's just going to
be kind of how pitching is. I keep going back and forth then

(47:42):
like how? Important is it to be a normal
human with you and how importantis it to just like know what
Teresa is interested in and do that OK number.
One is know who. You're pitching that is by far
who being the organization and what's important to them, what's
important to. I keep going back to Lauren and

(48:03):
Oliver Wyman because that's who I was on that panel with and we
were in fierce agreement was like, what she's looking for is
probably different than what I'mlooking for.
But you could probably get moneyfrom both of us if you pitched
it the right way, you know? Are you laughing because that
sounds? No, I'm just engaged with that.

(48:23):
I'm not. I'm.
Not. I don't mean to interrupt you at
all. I.
And then the nice to have is when you're nice, when you're a
nice human, that's the end. Like you take the time to get to
know us. Is it OK?
So. If you had two developers who
were equally good on being catalytic and the other things

(48:45):
that are important to Tara set, are you deciding on like who you
want to be in business with and have to be on the phone with for
the next couple years? Is is that how you like the tie
goes to the runner who is also nice?
That's a weird analogy, but I think you know what I mean.
I think that. The Who's the runner?

(49:05):
Nice to you like I'm. Sure.
Like sorry, damn this whole. Thing is making me look.
Horrible. I don't think so.
I think it's real. I think it's good.
You're human, yes. I mean, the tie goes to.
And I have a couple developers in mind that I'm thinking of
like the tie goes to the people that I know understand what
we're trying to do. Now there's some buyers where,

(49:29):
you know, you start to, you start to ask these questions
where you're like, OK, well, whoare we actually like, is this
valuable? Is this not if we didn't have a
relationship with the developer that we do the like 1 to one or
the Adam and I and their two leads, they've said to us, Are
you sure you feel comfortable with this, which I realize is a

(49:49):
risk for them. We could say, you're right.
I don't know if we feel comfortable about that.
But they're they're checking in with us constantly and they do
feel like true partners. So that we're then more willing
to say, OK, yeah, this is what we're going to do.
This is how we're going to buildthis deal.
We're willing to take an extra risk here on this thing.
And I think it's that's just business.
And maybe that's the whole maybethat's the whole thing, right?

(50:11):
It's like this is just business.Like business is relationships,
business is it's. Relationships it's.
Conversations. It's so, yeah.
I I don't know where I'm how? I'm threading that needle, but
it is it's the. Tie would go to the person.
That we have a a better relationship with for sure.

(50:33):
I don't think that's. Bad in any way.
I read Tina Fey's Bossy Pants like 20 years ago.
Yeah, maybe you remember the story.
But she. Says yeah, I should probably
like. Revisit.
It she tells a story in there that when she was head writer at
Saturday Night Live, they would try writers out and cast members

(50:54):
out for little stints sometimes.And if this person was not
someone that she would want to see at 3:00 in the morning, it
didn't matter how funny they were, how brilliant they were,
if they were just someone who was like not going to be someone
she was relieved to see when they were trying to meet their
deadline, nothing else mattered.And I think that's true.
It's, it's hard to separate thatthough, where if you're in a

(51:15):
hiring position or in a way thatyou're trying to put deals
together, you don't want to, there's a way of
operationalizing that that is biased where you're just like
choosing people who are very similar to yourself and maybe
have or like too similar. So like you're not actually
encouraging enough of the kinds of diversity that you might.
So you have to make sure you're checking yourself.
But if you're able to account for that, then I think overall

(51:37):
the premise here is like, are you relieved to see this person
if you're having a hard time solving a problem?
Or are they someone that you're scared to deal with or
unpredictable or bad at responding?
I mean, I get back to you for two weeks that it makes this
deal way harder. And surely if the soft skills
part of this felt more unfair, maybe characterizing in this way

(51:58):
is like this is actually just how you collaborate with other
people effectively. It's not.
It's like a proxy for understanding if you will be
someone who is productive and helpful to interact with for a
long period of time. Is that a safer way to put it?
Do you agree with that? Yeah.
Because it feels so much more like a partnership.
And I think again, I can't speakfor every buyer, but at least

(52:19):
for us, like we are a nonprofit and we have to respond to our
donors like we are looking for stories to tell them so that
they give us more money so that we put it into the market.
Like that is that's our whole ethos.
And so when we have developers. That we see as.
Partners in our portfolio saying, hey, I had this cool
idea about how Terra sets capital could be really useful.

(52:40):
We're way more like, like we're only three people.
I mean, we're a tiny team and I think we have found just so much
more success and interest on both sides when we're building
things together instead of just pushing money out the door.
So you want people to come? Up to you and just start telling
you how you can do your job better is what you're saying.

(53:03):
Yes, but actually tell me yes. Tell me how I can do my job
better. Tell me where I can put my
money. That's going to be way more
catalytic, like truly, because the other thing that I think
Adam says this to me a lot like I'm not a carbon removal expert,
I'm a philanthropy expert. I'm a nonprofit expert.
I've spent a decade doing it, but I, I'm not, we have a

(53:25):
diligence process. We have experts that advise us
on where we should put our money, but I am way more
interested in what's going to bea really interesting story for
the sector. What's going to bring people
into this space that they're notalready in here?
What's that inroad? Is it livelihoods?
Is it ocean health? Is it some specific community in
Louisiana that cares about kelp?Like what is the thing that's

(53:48):
going to bring in more money to get us over that 2%, only 2% of
philanthropy going into climate to help us solve the climate
crisis or at least solve this very small portion of it.
Like for me, it's such a bigger vision, and I appreciate when
when people understand that that's the vision that Teracet
sees this through. I was just trying to.

(54:10):
Yeah, so. You need to do my job better.
For sure please super near full rather than that.
Than a video video. Yeah, don't do that.
The video thing is. Probably just going to be a
don't probably just don't do that.
Or maybe I can't wait to see whoshows me a video at.
Unbound this year. I hope someone just like copies
the script. Exactly.
And then you're like, are you? You cheated, didn't you?
You're just like, you didn't seethat.

(54:32):
I. See that podcast?
Yeah, you. Saw.
That when I'm thinking about thethe companies that are doing off
takes or the organizations that are doing off takes, I tend to
split them by like Microsoft's trying to get like the price per
ton for negating all of their historical emissions.
That's really important to them.And volume is really important.
And I think about Milky wire, I'm thinking like, OK, they
really want to be catalytic and make sure every dollar of theirs

(54:52):
is the like most catalytic use on the margin that it can be.
And then when I'm thinking aboutterror set, should I be thinking
about you are the most story driven off take pre purchase
originator that exists? Is it about selling you a really
great story that you can take tocurrent and potential donors and
say This is why you should put your money here rather than the

(55:14):
100 other people who have contacted you for philanthropic
donations in the past month? I would say.
Yes. But that's secondary to the
catalytic. Like I think we are right now
we're seeing anywhere between with the revolving fund model,
we're seeing anywhere between like 6 and seven times leverage

(55:35):
for every dollar that we've deployed.
So like we are looking for opportunities where our $1.00 to
a developer turns into 45678 dollars more.
Get ready for how annoying I'm about to be.
Get ready, I can't wait being that.
Catalytic. Is incredibly story driven
that's all about storytelling, right You're able to say like

(55:57):
for this dollar you get 6 or 7 back that's how effective we are
we have that story yes so. Actually, actually I'm.
Right. Can you say?
That you're right. I've.
Extracted. You're right, you got that
recorded. And everything OK, How great.
I don't know is, is that true for like many of your peers?

(56:21):
Like do you think they are also thinking this way or do you
think that is something that youand or Tara Set is uniquely
obsessed with? I mean, it's if.
You want to get real Meadow withit, Like it's all storytelling,
right? Like corporates are doing this
to tell the story that they careabout climate.
Like I mean they could do it. For a bottom line, they do it

(56:41):
for. A whole bunch of reasons, but
like the main reason is the story that there's a better
that's. For climate like that that
right. Am I wrong in that?
I don't think so. I say things like it's all.
Storytelling. But also I'm a storyteller who
wants to generate new, new clients.
So like, yeah, of course it's. All storytelling.
When you think about it, I don'tthink it's a story.
I mean, if you talk to a chemist, they're.
Like it's all chemistry. That's all.

(57:02):
Like everyone just has this. All you got is a hammer.
Everything looks like a nail. Kind of dynamic, but yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I would say yes. I would say for all of us,
especially right now, like I wasjust at this corporate
citizenship conference, and for them it's about the story of how

(57:23):
this work connects with the communities that they care about
and so much of. It is.
So much of that conference was explaining how you sell the
things you care about to your leadership teams and convince
them to put money to the things that you care about.
And so it's still, it was such an interesting layer removed,
right? Because those are the people

(57:43):
we're raising money from more onthe corporate philanthropy side,
some on the corporate buyer side.
But they, we then go to them andsay, Hey, this is something we
care about. Here's your story.
And they're like, OK, can you help me tell that story to my,
the people who actually make decisions?
And it's like it before you knowit, it's just like a story and a
story and a story. And it's like crafting this

(58:03):
thing all to get money back to this thing you care about.
So it is all. Storytelling.
It's all. Storytelling.
Maybe you're white. I'm actually so curious what you
would think about this of. Urgy will.
Be on here. At some point, I am in such
frequent communication with her that it's like only a matter of

(58:24):
time. We just need to find the right.
The thing is, with people I'm pals with and I talk with a lot,
the pressure is on to find, like, the exact right thing
because it can be anything. She's falling into that
terrible, terrible pit. Yeah.
Yeah, Well, that's why. Our last call, you, you just
stopped me. You're like, I'm just going to
stop you there and we're going to put this in.
Yeah, I mean, it is. It's great advice too.

(58:44):
It's nice to be able to talk about this frankly, because
these things I feel like we for quite a lot here that.
Should. Be useful if there was maybe 1
gem. That we could share with.
People of this is Taylor's advice that can be carved into a
monument of how to successfully pitch her slash Terra set slash

(59:07):
maybe the No, I'm carving it. It's already being commissioned
as we speak. What, you don't like that?
Yeah, it'll probably change overtime.
So maybe it's maybe it's. Yeah, it's not.
Going to work. What's like?
What's like the the? Best single piece of advice?
Because you are a fundraiser, you are soliciting donors for
funds for your work. Bring that into here.

(59:28):
Like, what have you learned fromoperating in both of these
worlds as a recipient of pitches, as a solicitor, as a
giver of pitches? Connect it back to your donor
world. What can you teach people about
that space that's relevant here?We're all human.
Like not to be, not to be reallytrite, but like we're all human.

(59:49):
And I think remembering that, yes, I deploy capital to these
things and Terra set deploys capital to these things.
Like we are still people trying to that have all of our own
internal goals we're trying to meet.
And so meeting us where those goals are trying to help us
achieve the goals that our company or our organization are

(01:00:11):
trying to meet is like, that's gold for us.
Or the shorter version of that is tell me how to do my job
better. Oh God, you.
Can get a lot you're going to get a lot of that happening to
you and I think a lot of people are going to hear this and ask
me for the thing where I'm like,oh, I actually probably could
put in a word and people are like, can you put in a word for

(01:00:32):
me? I'm like, where's the thing I
will say on this? Podcast I will give 30 minutes
of reviewing anybody's pitch check as a buyer if they're
interested one. Idea I.
Haven't. You might want to take.
That out? Sorry, what'd?
You. Just say you might want to take

(01:00:53):
that out. Keep it in if if.
Do you want me to take it? Out.
Oh. OK, No.
Oh. Yeah, I mean it one one thing
that. I've.
Heard and I've also given this advice, and I'm sure it depends
upon which buyer it is, but how important?
Is the first impression. Like I've had some people who
have applied for RPS with not that good of applications and

(01:01:16):
like, or they were able even to take a meeting with the a buyer
and it didn't go super well because they weren't prepared
enough or they weren't far enough along or they didn't even
understand what the buyer's motivations were.
So they poorly pitched to it andthey feel like that relationship
has maybe been damaged. How important is it to make sure
you only approach buyers at the right moment?
I think relationship building. Is more important.

(01:01:38):
Like I think if you're not readyfor the type of money that we
are deploying, still knowing whoyou are is something like I want
to know who's in the ecosystem and who's doing interesting
things. And if it's not now, it's six
months from now that you need us.
That's great. I also just, I don't know, I
don't think first impressions are as important as to me

(01:02:01):
they're not. To me they're not.
Yeah, I've heard people say this.
But I have not encountered it nearly as much where I'm like, I
don't know, like you had a bad pitch to Microsoft two years ago
when you came back and you pitched again.
Like it might be a different person at that point.
It might be totally fine. Like maybe you've matured enough
and it's OK. I also think there's.
Something about our, we've been trying to figure this out with

(01:02:23):
our portfolio because things change so much in this space
like four months or six months changes a lot.
So you applying to us in November, like by May you're a
different project, you're doing different things, right?
And so I do think they're, we'retrying to figure out how, how to
make it easier for us to get those updates so that we know

(01:02:44):
where everybody's at. But I think it I I don't take
first impressions that seriously.
I've worked with companies before.
That have went right to pitchingMicrosoft and Frontier and I
don't love putting it this way, but like you're in the minor
leagues you like you go to Milkywire Robert Hogan give you the
thumb drops and tears set once you have those.

(01:03:06):
Stamps. Where you are pre vetted, you
are kind of already seen as morelegitimate and more mature and
ready for the bigger deals. You're shot at the majors.
I don't really like I I rewatched Moneyball the other
day. Sorry.
I'm I'm that's all that has happened.
And then I have to like, I hang out with Aiden sometimes and I
have to pretend like I'm real sporty and I'm just just can't
really do it. But yeah, like.

(01:03:27):
There's a there's a life cycle to this thing.
Right. But the only people don't even
don't even necessarily know thatthat's kind of the historical
route that is set up for you. And that to me, I'm like, oh, I
wish you would have checked in alittle bit earlier, 'cause then
we could have prepared you better.
Yeah. Yeah, I'd agree with that.
I think there's a there's a clear progression to how this
all works and I think trying to jump ahead.

(01:03:51):
I don't know. I can't imagine that.
I would, I wouldn't go to some, I wouldn't go to a funder and
say hi, I'm ready for $100 million fund when I've only
raised 10 million. Yeah, yeah, that.
That seems like a big leap. I don't have a lot of experience
doing that, but that doesn't like we.
Can do a lot. I don't know the 100 million,
although Adam might be mad at me.
Yeah, yeah, you're just. What do you mean?

(01:04:12):
We just had. Someone on the on the hook for
that. I don't know if you just.
Had a funder tell us they were going.
To give us $100 million, we could perfectly deploy that
tomorrow. Like we, we.
Have couple ready projects we'retaking in passing that.
Cool, that's good to good to know.
Is there anything that I don't know enough about philanthropy
or what you do that I wouldn't even think to ask about that is
like totally salient in your brain?

(01:04:34):
That's a good question. I don't know.
I feel like you, you understand.What terror set does?
I think the philanthropy piece. Like the one thing I really want
people to come away with it's and it we're talking about this
on on the unbound panel. So it's a bit of a, a teaser is

(01:04:56):
that I think that we as a sectorneed to be way more creative
about how we're moving money into the sector, especially
right now, especially in this current political climate and
this current market. Being as a developer, being
creative and intentional about how and where money can come

(01:05:19):
from. I think it's going to be what
carries us through this next year.
And so I think philanthropy is avery untapped tool that people
just don't think about because they think about rescue
charities for cats and they don't think like this is a
system changing amount of money.And that's one thing that I just

(01:05:41):
love about it. Like for me, philanthropy and
nonprofits is connecting large amounts of money with things
that I deeply care about. And it's not just raising money
and it's not just deploying it. You know, it's, it's connecting
a donor or or a family office with something that's really
important to me and to the world.

(01:06:03):
So I think, yeah, I think that'sthe one thing I would say is
like, you can be really creativewith philanthropy in a way that
I don't think our sector has fully embraced yet.
Taylor, thanks for being here. I'm going to put.
This out I think the Monday before carbon inbound so that
people can get good information about what to do.
Hopefully that's enough time. It's probably not to get people

(01:06:25):
geared up for how 24 hours, yeah.
You got to have. Urgency with the podcast, you
know otherwise. It's just like I'm competing
with true crime and the paranormal.
And I just can't do it unless. There's urgency, but this is it.
But thank you for being. Here and thank.
You for giving, I think, real answers to some fairly difficult
questions about how much charm and and interpersonal skills

(01:06:47):
matter. It was a very good show for that
reason. Awesome.
Yeah, thanks for having me.