What do you do when you're a venture capitalist who can't stop talking about carbon removal at every meeting? You quit and start a carbon removal company, obviously. Three days later you meet the person who's been quietly running one of the largest carbon removal operations nobody's ever heard of. And then you build a company that just signed a nearly 5 million tonne deal with Microsoft. That's... a lot of tonnes.
Today's guest is Julia Reichelstein, the co-founder and CEO of Vaulted Deep. They take contaminated organic waste—the stuff nobody else wants, the sludgy, PFAS-laden, moisture-intensive material that's going to landfills or getting spread on land—and they pump it thousands of feet underground where it stays forever. They don't compete for nice clean biomass. They take the actual waste, and they get paid to take it. That's a business model I can get behind.
I wanted to talk to Julia because her origin story is unusual. She didn't start with a technology and try to commercialize it. She came from venture capital, from international development in Kenya and Ethiopia, from a place of asking "what actually scales?" And when she found deep well disposal through her now co-founder Omar, she recognized immediately that this was both great waste management and great carbon removal—and that the combination was the thing.
But this episode went somewhere I didn't expect. We got into intuition and gut decisions, into what it means to lead a company from a spiritual place without losing business rigor, into "front of brain" versus "back of brain" and why Julia's trail runs keep getting longer the more successful Vaulted gets. I brought up the question of whether CEOs who founded their companies can survive the transition to scaling them, and Julia gave one of the best answers I've heard: "What does the company need me to be?" Not "how do I shape the company around my strengths"—the other direction entirely.
We also talked about the mechanics of spinning a company out of an existing one, why there aren't many venture-backed spinoffs (and why that should have told her something), and what it actually looks like to go from two trucks a week to fifty trucks a day.
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EcoEngineers: a full-service advisory and consulting firm focused on carbon dioxide removal, decarbonization, and carbon markets.
Listen to the RCC episode with Lev Gantly about the history and current status of CORSIA
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, thank you. SO.
Much for listening to Reversing Climate Change, this is Ross.
Kenyon, I'm the host of the show.
The two sponsors are Eco Engineers and Philip Lee LLP.
Oh, Eco Engineers. What isn't Eco Engineers?
I've had a really great vantage point of carbon dioxide removal
and so often I'll start talking with a company and they will say
(00:21):
something like, Oh well, we've been working with Eco Engineers
for a while now, either trying to build this methodology,
you're just trying to figure this project out, trying to get
the quantification right, tryingto figure this MRV out.
That has happened to me so many times and I've been glad to see
them have so much success with so many companies in our space.
Eco Engineers is essentially A consultancy that helps carbon
(00:42):
removal tech and project developers get to market
effectively. If you've ever started a
company, one of the early decisions that you're going to
need to make is which of these things can we bring in house and
which of these things do we needto pay consultants for?
And often the conventional knowledge here is that it always
makes sense to bring stuff in house if you can.
(01:02):
But I think bringing in very experienced consultants early on
can save projects a lot of time and money.
For instance, you might end up on the phone with David Lagreca.
Dave's going to be on the podcast soon and David has done,
I don't know, dozens of methodologies within the
voluntary carbon market. And if you could just get on the
phone with David for a little bit and you are trying to bring
(01:26):
a new methodology or protocol tomarket, you have some new
approach. You're a biochar project and
you're trying to figure out, given your technology, region,
biomass availability, what is the best way for me to work
within the options that I have available to me?
That's a person that you could very easily be paired with.
David will likely shave off timeand money from what would
(01:49):
otherwise be a process that is pretty overwhelming.
And that's just the start of it too.
ECO has been engaged with peopleI I've known or worked with,
from everything from project design to the actual MRV plans,
doing the LCA itself, registering the project, doing
the diligence support, feasibility studies, tech
(02:09):
evaluations, market eligibility.I feel like they're.
Halfway to being an EPC without actually being an EPC is for
some of these things. Sometimes you don't necessarily
need one person full time thinking only about your
project. Sometimes it makes sense to get
10 people on a fractional basis who have worked on collectively
hundreds or maybe thousands of projects.
(02:30):
Whether or not that will be the way for your company to go,
you'll have to take the calls tofigure it out.
And I think, I very much think. You should do that.
The link is in the show notes. If you'd like to get in touch
with Eco Engineers, tell them Ross Kenyon sent you.
Philip Lee LLP is a law firm with a lot of experience in
carbon markets and carbon removal.
(02:50):
If you've been working in this space for really any amount of
time, you probably have noticed that you do need competent
counsel to do business here. The contracts that get signed
are frankly pretty weird. You're going to need help from a
lawyer with a red pen, I'm sorryto inform you.
Your only choice is basically who they should be.
And if you are deciding who theyshould be, you should be
(03:12):
considering Philip Lee LLP. They've won Environmental
Finances VCM Law Firm of the Year for the last GOSH since
2023. Essentially, it hasn't happened
yet for 2026. I imagine they're a contender.
For it this year as well. They are the largest legal team
dedicated to the financing and development of carbon projects
globally and they have offices in the US, Europe and the UK.
(03:33):
One cool new thing I just learned actually is that they
have been listed as a firm in Chambers Global as a global
market leader in the area of climate change.
This listing alliance Philip LeeLLP with around 15 to 20 of the
leading law firms practicing in this practice area in the entire
world. So Congrats to Philip Lee LLP.
Thank you to Philip Lee LLP for your generous support of the
(03:55):
show. You make it possible for me to
dedicate so much time to puttingout content that I hope is
useful to our friends and peers and fellow travellers in the
world of carbon removal, climatechange and carbon markets.
Thanks so much. Here's the show.
(04:19):
Thanks so much for listening to Reversing Climate Change.
This is Ross Kenny and the host of the show.
I am a climate tech and carbon dioxide removal entrepreneur.
I'm not going to spend a lot of time introducing today's guest
because she explains what they do very well at the start of the
episode. Our guest is Julia Reichlstein
who is the Co founder and CEO ofVaulted.
Deep They are a carbon dioxide removal project developer.
(04:40):
They take contaminated biomatterand pump it underground.
The debate over competing uses for biomass will persist for a
long time, and I suspect we'll continue.
As biomass has more and more value as people start to use it
for productive things and Julia,in dealing with the some very
nasty materials, is able to sidestep.
Out of that very large looming issue, or at the very Least
(05:03):
Concern for those using biomass for carbon and climate purposes,
I'm. Going to start the show right
after this. If I could just make a quick ask
if you could please open up yourpodcast app and give this show
five stars in Apple Podcast or Spotify.
Write a quick review on Apple Podcast if you're able.
If you could follow me and or the show on sub stack that's
also super valuable. And if you'd like you could
(05:23):
become a paid subscriber on Spotify. 5 bucks a month gets
rid of all the ads I don't read myself and occasional bonus
content. Thanks so much for.
Listening. Here's the show with Julia
that's been drinking water on the record.
Am I allowed to drink coffee on the record then?
(05:45):
You are allowed to drink coffee on the record.
Yeah. Thanks for coming on, Julia.
Thanks for having me, I'm reallyexcited to chat.
I am too. I was happy we got a chance to
hang out in Vancouver at Carbon Unbound.
It was really nice to get a chance to meet in person.
I always like going to those events too.
So many of these people I see, it's like the disembodied torso
of everyone I know, and then I get to see the rest of everyone,
(06:05):
which was really nice. Yeah, yeah, it's awesome.
And it's fun to like, see. Yeah, It's fun to see like, what
feels sometimes like an old group of friends, you know, that
we kind of were there. A lot of us were there at the
beginning of an industry. And it felt really magical and
pretty unique in terms of this. Like, you know, I'd say it's
(06:26):
like this like call to action oflike we need carbon removal and
the IPCC report came out and we need shots on goal as Frontier
says. And, and then there was just a
lot of people that heeded that call.
And so now I feel like, you know, in those early days of the
market, there were not that manysuppliers.
And you could look around the room and you're like, I kind of
have been in these trenches trying to, you know, help
(06:47):
collectively grow these, this industry with these people for,
you know, 5 plus years now. And that's pretty special.
I feel like I have never been a part of an industry like that
before. And I feel, I feel like, pretty
grateful to be a part of it. You came in through a strange
way too, where you were an investor and I think you
probably cycled through ideas and engineered something that
(07:10):
would get to the right volume and price dynamics that would.
People don't really do that for carbon removal.
People usually start with like, I really like biochar and I live
in Oregon and therefore I'm doing biochar in Oregon or
they're a scientist who came up with a novel electrochemistry
pathway and then they're going to commercialize that.
And you had the benefit, I think, of that extra layer out
(07:30):
of what actually makes sense to do that's a viable commercial
enterprise. Am I reading you correctly?
Is that how you did it? This is like your mythology that
I'm recounting to you. Yeah.
I mean, to some degree, honestly, it's given me probably
more credit than it's due than it's due.
I didn't have like a spreadsheetof, you know, 100 ideas and the
cost benefit analysis. But yeah, I mean, I was, I was a
(07:52):
venture capitalist before I started vaulted, Co founded
Vaulted. And I mean, just being AVC in
general is like the most magicaljob to be a founder, right?
Like I couldn't imagine a betterjob if you want to be a founder
because you're getting this likebird's eye view of businesses in
general. And I was at Piva Capital, so we
invested in climate and deep tech across, you know, all
(08:16):
industries or anything that sortof touched climate or deep tech.
And so I was seeing companies grow, you know, everything from
seed to, I think series C so pretty like good stage of, of
development, but you just like, you get to discuss like
businesses and what makes them successful and theories of how
they're gonna win and how they're gonna, you know, track
(08:38):
the right capital, how they're gonna grow HR people, you know,
all of it together. And that was like this like
pretty, pretty magical experience to be like, oh, I
understand now. Some pattern recognition of how,
you know, the companies paint that through line of, you know,
growing up and and getting to, you know, be big and successful
(08:59):
and then hopefully have a good exit.
And so like I already had that in my brain after a couple of
years of just being a venture investor in general.
And then, you know, I got prettylucky.
I was at peeve at a time like 2020 when like carbon removal
markets were really starting to take off and you know, Stripe
was putting $8 million. I remember like the first $8
million purchase, I think from my now board member Ryan Orbach.
(09:22):
And he was like, you know, we'regoing to, you know, we're going
to put this forward and, and start purchasing durable carbon
removal. And yeah, it was just, I mean,
as we were just talking about like just this huge call for
innovation. And so I got pretty deep down
that space, I kind of went down the rabbit hole and all of a
sudden that was like all I wanted to do at Piva was talk
(09:43):
about carbon removal and talk tocarbon removal companies.
And it was early days. And I remember talking to, you
know, Noya and charm and heirloom and, and just like
understanding all the business models.
And then I got pretty clear likethat I wanted to kind of join
them. I was like, this is such an
exciting space. We need it so badly.
(10:03):
There's so much room here for innovation.
There's great new ideas. Like, you know, kind of felt
like every other week coming out.
And I loved being an investor, but I had always wanted to be a
founder. It was like deep in my heart.
And so I I left and they were sosupportive.
They they agreed to sort of support me as like an entre in
(10:26):
residence for I think almost an extra year.
And so that was incredible. And it was actually someone at
the fund who introduced me to mynow Co founder.
And so it was this pretty serendipitous.
Like, you know, we actually got introduced about something
totally different. Not, not about carbon removal,
you know, not not about the technology at all.
But you know, he was telling me,my Co founder Omar, he sort of
(10:50):
took, you know, an invention by his father which is slurry,
slurry injection. So deep, deep well slurry
injection. And he really had commercialized
that in the oil and gas sector, using it for oil field waste
disposal. And he was sort of telling me
about this and sort of telling me about sort of most of the oil
field work. It wasn't quite, you know,
relevant to what I was thinking about at the time.
(11:13):
But then he told me about, you know, this project in the city
of Los Angeles that takes 20% ofthe city of L as biosolids every
year. So it's human waste, post waste
for our treatment facility. And, you know, he was kind of
telling me about this and it waslike, you know, it's really good
for the environment. We're taking that waste.
We're, you know, it's Co located.
It's right there on site. We sort of slurify it.
(11:33):
We put it 5000 plus feet underground.
It stays down there forever. It's safe, it doesn't cause
earthquakes, it doesn't leak. We've been doing it for 15 plus
years safely. And it's just much better for
the environment, right? Like anything that site doesn't
take gets like trucked almost 300 miles round trip, you know,
to the Central Valley where it'skind of spread on land, not
(11:55):
productively used because it's, you know, it's it's human waste.
So it has PFAS has other contaminants in it and you know,
that's going into, obviously it's, it's decomposing and back
into the atmosphere. So the the CO2 is being re
released, there's methane. And then obviously anything
that's in that waste is going back out into local land, air
and water as it's just sort of decomposing and going into
groundwater. And so there's some, you know,
(12:18):
climate change benefits from putting it underground, right?
You're obviously trapping that carbon really deep in the
subsurface, You're avoiding methane.
And then you're also, you know, helping protect local land, air
and water because those pathogens or anything that's in
that waste is not going back outinto local communities.
Anyway. He was telling me all this and
he was like, yeah, it's the first project in the world to do
(12:38):
deep, well, injection of organicwaste.
Like, we're the first company totry it never been tried before.
And I remember on that phone call, I remember being like,
whoa, like, whoa. I thought I had.
I honestly, I was like, I thought I had talked to every
two guys in a lab thinking aboutcarbon removal.
And I feel like I just like, metthis person who was doing, you
(13:01):
know, to some degree, one of thelargest car removal projects
that nobody had ever heard of. And I was like, think like I, I
had one of those moments where Iwas like, take a step back,
like, you know, this is waste. He was, you know, he's a waste
management company. He's like, yeah, we got paid to
put it underground. It's really good waste
management. You know, we're saving disposal
and processing fees and we're helping, you know, protect local
environments. And I was like, 100%.
(13:23):
It's great waste management. It is also great carbon removal
because it is durable, it is measurable, it has Co benefits,
it's low cost, it's efficient, right?
And and we know it can work and it's safe.
And I just was like, that is a great carbon removal idea.
And we kind of just like blinkedup, you know, he came with the
tech and the operating side and I came with the like.
(13:45):
This is how you can think about carbon removal markets and the
sales aspect and how you actually like build a both the
Cdr and a waste management company.
Wow. What was the idea that preceded
it? What was the the top contender
before you got into contaminatedbiomass induction?
Is that is that, can I say it that way?
Is that allowed or is there am Iwrong in some way?
(14:09):
I just say deep well, like deep well disposal, yeah, waste
disposal. I think what I like about it is
so many other companies that deal with biomass in the future,
they may be competing for biomass that has alternative
uses that are like pretty high. Like maybe you'll compete with
pyrolysis for biosolids. Like maybe that's like a future
I would like to live in a futurewhere people were actually
(14:30):
trying to bid that resource up. That might actually be a future
that was net positive in in someway.
But you're not going to be fighting over like force residue
sawmill stuff. That's not going to be you.
And that's sort of like a nice place to be.
Yeah, I, I totally agree. And and I use the word waste
pretty intentionally. Like we really are taking real
(14:53):
waste. And I say that like I know it's
a waste because for the most part we get paid to take it.
And we are a waste management company that does waste disposal
as a service. Just like you would pay a
landfill to dispose of your waste or you would pay a waste
management company to dispose ofyour waste.
And I like that better for a number of reasons, right?
I like, I like those wastes, one, because they happen to be
(15:13):
go really well with the technology.
A lot of the wastes that we get paid for are moisture intensive.
So they're sludgy. So I say the word sludge, right?
Moisture intensive, oftentimes contaminated, pretty aggregated.
And so they don't make great energy feedstock because you'd
have to dewater them. They don't make great fertilizer
because they're oftentimes contaminated.
And so right now they're going to landfills or land
(15:36):
application, maybe incineration.And so I like, I like taking
those ways because yeah, they don't have a better use.
You can get paid to take them, which is really important, I
think to, to build a scalable, you know, durable, profitable
company. And you're solving a really
tangible local problem, right? Like when there is a waste
management issue, you're solvingA tangible local problem for
(15:58):
that company that has the waste.And then also for that
community. That's like feeling the impacts
of wherever that waste is going today, right?
You put in a landfill, it's not gone.
You still smell it. There's still leachate issues.
You spread it on land. You still got, you know,
groundwater, you know, issues incineration, you've got, you
know, air quality issues. So I really like the specificity
of waste because it's saying that like that local problem,
(16:21):
the paying for it. And then, yeah, it's not, I
don't call it a byproduct, I don't call it a residue because
we're really focused on literally, you know, the waste
piece of it. Does that make sense now?
Waste. As a concept here is something
that it's a little bit too nebulous, I think.
Liability, biomass, I think it'smaybe a better term for a lot of
(16:42):
this. But then also like all of the
same stuff gets lumped into it. And also the endless taxonomical
churn. Like doesn't really matter what
we call these things. Half the time people think like
if we found the one right phrase, it'll unlock all of the
social dynamics around like who has to host these projects and
like why and blah, blah, blah. So whatever, waste liability,
whatever. OK, I want to go back to this
(17:03):
question though, Like what preceded it?
Were you already in the biomass gang?
Were you like, this is like a category that I want to explore
further or were you even considering direct air capture?
Other pathways previous to vaulted.
No, yeah, I I almost wish I was as methodical as maybe the
(17:26):
question kind. Of gut driven, are you like like
pretty intuitive? Is that what it is?
I'm very gut driven. Yeah, I'm very gut driven and
I'm very, you know, I, I, I do this work because I am impact
driven. I, you know, I feel that very
strongly. It to me impact is what is sort
of the good you're creating in the world multiplied by the
(17:49):
scale you're doing it at. And so while I'm very impact
driven, I am very business driven at the same time.
Because this actually ties to your question.
You know, I spent the 1st part of my career in International
Development, right? I lived in Peru.
I lived in Nairobi, Kenya for a bunch of years.
And I was working primarily, youknow, with the unbanked
(18:09):
population, so people that don'thave, you know, credit scores
and don't have access to formal financial services.
And I was working with a lot of smallholder farmers in rural
Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, a little bit of Somalia and, you
know, doing sort of more like parametric crop insurance or
like financial inclusion fintechwork, which was amazing and I
(18:31):
loved it. But I saw kind of two things.
One, I saw climate change is very real in that part of the
world and it's happening now andit's causing a lot of distress
in terms of droughts and floods and food insecurity and conflict
of migration and, you know, whole host of stuff that we
know. So that really led me to want to
(18:52):
work on climate. But then too, I saw, you know,
frankly, a lot of smaller socialenterprises that had great
impact intentions that could never really get profitability
there and they never really scaled.
And so for me, I felt very clear, like I want to build a
very impactful business, but it needs to be a good business that
is profitable, that can make a lot of money, that can really
(19:14):
hit the scale. That's important for climate
change and that, you know, important for, you know, I think
the world and what and what I wanted to build.
So my lens was in that vein a little bit more.
And actually the other idea I was working on was I actually
went back to Nairobi for a couple of months in that time
and was looking at, you know, how to build some of like the
(19:36):
infrastructure layer around getting carbon projects in
emerging markets, better access to the VCM and to, you know,
registries and doing more of like the MRV quality stuff.
So it was, it was totally different.
I wasn't going to be a, a project developer specifically,
but I really, I love one of the things I love about car removal
(19:58):
is, you know, it's, it's like fungible in some ways.
So you can remove a ton in, you know, East Africa or you can
move a ton in California. And it's like the atmosphere
doesn't care where it comes from, which is like an amazing
potential opportunity for emerging economies and you know,
ways to build, build economies in that way and, and have
(20:20):
investment and job creation there.
So I was really interested in that and I was sort of looking
at something there too. But then.
Once I started really working with Omar on Vaulted and we sort
of got it going a little bit more, it became clear like that
was the thing that I really wantto spend my time on.
OK, But there wasn't like another carbon removal pathway
that maybe you felt called to intuitively, but to a lesser
(20:42):
extent. It was sort of like taking a
broad survey, less methodical than maybe I'm presenting it.
But then once you came upon thisorganic slurry injection, you're
like, this is the thing I've been waiting for.
Everything else I've been looking at previously was on a
similar plane of curiosity, and this is the thing.
Is that appropriate characterization?
Yeah, yeah. I also would say I met Omar
(21:06):
three days after leaving my job.So it was really, it was kind of
serendipitous, you know, magicaltiming.
And I think in my mind you got to listen to the timings of the
universe. You know, I'm pretty instinct
driven in that way too. So I kind of listen to it.
Let's talk about that. I am also that way.
(21:26):
I'm pretty analytical too, but Ioften think I make my best
decisions when I'm able to access things that are less
articulable, things that kind ofjust feel right.
I tried not to betray myself. There have been times in
business where I've allowed myself to be talked out of my
gut by colleagues in various ways, though.
I look back on like, I really wish I had stood my ground, even
(21:47):
though I didn't always have the perfect convincing language to
do so. And you're nodding your head.
You probably feel similarly. How do you know you're doing
that for the right reasons, though?
Because I can imagine someone also weaponizing this intuition
and vetoing things that maybe they're doing for the wrong
reasons. Like, how do you actually ferret
out what's happening and when isyour body really smart and when
is it not really that smart? Yeah, yeah.
(22:10):
Wow. I love that question.
I think for me it's it's, it's ahard 1 to get right.
And I think for me it's like, how do you get get enough and
give yourself and get enough space to really sit with it?
(22:31):
I think as you know, as a, as a founder, as ACEO, there's a lot
of pressure and a lot of instinct to like move super
quick and be super action oriented.
And you know, you're facing opportunities and threats and
distractions all day, every day.And you know, I think for a lot
of us, being in execution mode is actually more comfortable,
(22:55):
right? Like we're good at it.
I love action. I love moving fast.
I love being on that, you know, super quick speed.
And in some ways it feels amazing and you can feel like
you're getting a lot done. I think what it can do sometimes
is disconnect a little bit from the gut when you're moving so
(23:16):
quickly. And so I think for me, I've had
to learn and it's been a journey.
I've had to learn like, OK, how do we move, you know, slower
from from a human perspective? Me, me as Julia, as the CEO, how
do I create enough space so I can really sit with it?
And then really like really likeask yourself those hard
(23:36):
questions like where is this really coming from?
Is it, is it really that good gut instinct and you want to
listen to it? Or is there is there some ego in
there? Is there some fear in there?
Is there something else clogged in those gears that you should
maybe like really look at and reflect on and say, hey, you
know, we're going to sit with this a little bit more.
So I don't know. I try and do that for me.
(23:58):
I'm a big trail runner. So I do that a lot in nature.
I do even as you know, see and it's been crazy the last couple
of years at Vaulted, the crazierit got, the longer my runs got.
I started, you know, at first itwas like half hour, then I
started doing hour. Now my runs are like 2 hours.
You know, people are like, how do you find the time?
And I'm like, it's the best thing I do with CEO is go on
those long runs and like really meditate on some stuff and try,
(24:22):
yeah, try and really keep yourself honest.
You know, like really what is happening here for me?
Try to make the right decision. I think people would imagine
that for project developers likeFaulted or some of the other
very successful carbon removal project developers, the job gets
easier at a certain point. Like you have major off takes,
(24:46):
you have some amount of financial security, it is
presumed by outsiders. Things are probably going well
enough where I don't know if theTeams at Frontier or Microsoft
or Google have vetted you enoughto link their reputation to
yours. You're probably on the right
track and therefore it's easy. But I know enough to know I know
(25:07):
many of these people and it isn't really like that one.
What do you think people do think that?
And what is it really like? Why are your runs getting
longer? Surely they should be getting
shorter. You should just be like going on
like a 5 minute, like let your dog pee in the yard kind of walk
at this point. Like isn't it?
Isn't it good for you now? Yeah, You know, it's just
(25:28):
different. It's just different.
I don't, I don't know if it's easier or harder.
It's different problems. And I think it takes a different
skill. And and I think actually that's
one of the coolest things about being ACEO and being a founder
is like there's so much personaldevelopment that happens because
you have to learn how to be the right CEO for that stage of
(25:51):
business, right? Like, and in the early days it
was like, OK, how do I you know,the skill sets were storytelling
and painting a picture, paintinga vision that people could
understand and get behind because all there was was a
pitch deck, right? It was so early and convincing
people that you were going to bea good steward of their money
and a good investment. Or, you know, for us, we spun
(26:12):
out of my Co founders company. So there was a lot of you know,
how do you that company had to decide that they wanted to, you
know, bless the spin off and that we were going to create,
not destroy value. And of course that was, you
know, that took time and survision pic.
So there's like storytelling andthen obviously early team
formation. It's a lot of doing it yourself.
And there was a lot of like justdoing like as I talked about
(26:34):
earlier, there's a lot of just like how quickly can you move?
And my days were jam packed and I was moving a mile a minute and
I was trying to do, you know, a lot myself and then get early,
get early people on board. And then as the company grows,
yeah, you get it's much more about human, you know,
(26:57):
development and being a good manager and figuring out how to
be the right leader for the right stage of company for your
leadership team and developing that team and making sure that
you're functioning really well on team.
You've got good organizational health, right?
You could management systems, good boundaries, a good culture.
And then, and then you, you know, you'll sort of I think for
(27:20):
us really continuously learning of you know, kind of the early
stages were really get our, our existing sites ramped up.
And I think we did a pretty goodjob of that.
We've got sort of two sites we work with one in, in Hutchinson,
KS, our Great Plains facility and then one in Los Angeles, CA,
the one I mentioned before whichyou know we work with Advantech,
(27:43):
the company we spin out of our partner on that one.
But both of them now are really ramping up.
And so there was a lot of early,OK, how do you really
operationalize carbon removal? How do you get from that site in
Kansas when we started was doinglike 2 trucks a week.
We do, you know, 50 trucks a day.
So how do you do that ramp up? And so there's a lot of like
operational nuts and bolts learning that takes a really
(28:05):
different team than the team that's going to like take the
playbook and execute over 10 sites, right?
And so I think there's just beendifferent like stages of the, of
the company and of the progression.
But to me, one of the coolest and hardest things is like, what
does the company need me to be at each one of these stages?
And how can I figure out how to be that leader that's effective
(28:28):
at that stage? Because it's it's night and day
from two years ago, frankly, from a year ago, it's night and
day. It hasn't stayed the same for
more than a year. So I think that's a really cool
part of the job too. It mirrors what you said earlier
about selecting vaulted in this particular pathway where other
people come in looking through the other end of the telescope
(28:48):
and they're like, I have this technology, how do I
commercialize it? And I think a lot of people make
their companies in their own image, for better or for worse.
And sometimes that results in CEOS that last the duration and
get to, you know, what's the oldline?
You really get to be both rich and the king and like only a few
people get to be both. Zuckerberg is one of the people
(29:08):
who gets to be both. And it's like not that common.
Like a lot of CE OS get fired bytheir board much earlier because
the person who found something is not the same person who's
necessarily the best at growing it.
But I think a good portion of the way that one might be able
to blunt that threat as the CEO is to ask a question of and what
does the company need me to be? Not how do I fit the company
around my strengths and weaknesses so much as like, OK,
(29:31):
I'm a person who can learn and grow.
How do I be the right leader in this context?
And I don't hear people ask thatquestion that often.
I think it's a really emotionally and intellectually
wise way to do things. You get that just like beating
into you by experience or or howdo you possibly learn such a
thing? I, I am so grateful to the
(29:53):
people I have around me. Honestly, some of my board
members, my mentors, my coach, I'm pretty spiritual, my
spiritual life and sort of that practice like it's, it's, I have
a huge team that's like helping me figure this out.
And I, I feel endlessly blessed to like have them and have them
(30:17):
in my ear and, and have them supporting and coaching.
But I also think, and that's honestly like 99% of the answer.
And then I also think there's like something in there.
And what I actually said earlier, I think you're right,
is like, I do this work because I want to be in service.
Like it's really important for me.
Like the reason I'm doing this is because we want to have a
(30:37):
positive impact on the world andbe in service of a planet that
is habitable and safe for everyone for generations to
come. And so the reason I did this
work and started this work, it was to be in that service.
And then I'm like, OK, the pointis about the company.
The point is vaulted and vaultedbeing successful because I
really believe in what we're doing is so good for the planet
(31:00):
and so good for community healthand for local environments.
And so it's like, what can I do to be in service to the company
so the company can grow and be successful And like, as much as
I can change and try and be an effective leader, let me do
that. If there's a time where I'm not
the most effective leader, like no problem.
Vaulted is first. Like that's the very clear North
Star that that I feel and that Iactually think like the team
(31:22):
feels too. And that just keeps us like, you
know, eye on the horizon. I think like focused and
grounded. Great answer, less common than
maybe one would hope. All right, since you dropped the
you dropped a hard ass. So I have to to ask though, but
spirituality this this impacts your work.
(31:44):
You're like a hardcore nuts and bolts like operational
excellence, scaling a company. Are you even allowed to talk
about spirituality, Julia? How does how does it impact your
work at all? Yeah.
Am I allowed to? Yeah.
I, I, I mean, it's a huge part of who I am and I think it
(32:05):
probably does show up in the company, right?
It must. I think a, for me, a lot of
being spiritual is about feelingthat connection to the broader
world, the universe. I mean, you can take that in
whatever way you want. If you want to say God, if you
want to say the energy flows, ifyou want to say just humanity,
(32:28):
like whatever I just, I feel, I feel it and I can tap into it.
And I think like when you feel how connected we all are, if you
really see yourself like we are really the same, we are one and
you can feel that to some degree, then it makes it pretty
(32:50):
clear. It's, it's again, it comes to
the service part of like, of of course we want to help each
other and of course we want to contribute because it's not like
me being, you know, benevolent and like saying, Hey, I'll help
out over here. It's like we're the same.
We're, you know, it's, it's fulfilling in that way.
And I think it's good for our souls to be a part of
contributing too. So I think, I think it must show
(33:12):
up like really prominently and sort of like the ethos here.
I don't know if that makes any sense.
Yeah, I feel pretty similarly. I connect to that, too.
I'm smiling. I hope you don't read that in,
like, a patronizing, mocking kind of way.
Like, I also think this is a bigpart of the work, and people are
better off when they can acknowledge it in their own way.
(33:35):
OK. But then I have to take it to
one extra level, which is a little bit stranger.
So it's also possible this isn'tmaking the show, but.
So. Excited you feel like this?
Focus on big hard questions require more exercise, more
being in a condition of physicalextremity or exertion at the
(33:58):
very least. Do you ever feel like some of
these ideas, solutions, things come to you that don't feel
endogenous to your own brain, but maybe more like answers that
come to you in a spiritual way outside of just I'm super smart
and I'm running, but does creativity find you?
Do you resonate with this at all?
Yeah. 100% hundred. I like that.
(34:22):
Too. Yeah, I'm I kind of have this.
We can figure out if we want this in the show or not, but I
kind of have this like this likefront of brain is good, is good,
you know? OK, this is like front of house,
back of house here. Like the back of house, the back
of house that's like connected to this broader wisdom and this
(34:45):
broader universe. That's where the magic comes.
And so I think a lot of the timeI'm like, my job is to quiet
front of brain so I can hear back of brain, you know, and
that's where the that's where the best things come from.
And also the things that like are rooted in the right stuff,
you know, it's not the ego and it's not the fear and it's not
(35:06):
that stuff that can get cloudy. So 100%.
I said this on number a number of.
Podcasts previously, but so muchof my life has been about
cramming more knowledge into my brain and I think at some point
in the last couple years I realized there's serious
diminishing returns from that and actually I need to be
cultivating open space intuition, wisdom and noticing
(35:29):
how different those two things are and I'm I'm working on
trying to develop that because I, I feel like I have like the
raw ability to harness that I actually think that's like a
universally democratically accessible way of processing
information. It's not like you have to be
special or touched by the divinein some way to do that.
But I'm trying to create more space for creativity to find me
(35:50):
and for the less analytical, more intuitive part of my my
processing to to take over because some really important
insights have come from that. How, how can I better harness
that? What advice might you have for
people listening to this might sound a little bit woo or at
least semi woo, as Emily Swaddlerecently called it or, but like,
(36:11):
I think it's also true woo, as she also called it.
Like how do you, how do you actually do that and
operationalize it in a way that makes actual business sense that
you can say with a straight faceto your very serious board of
investors? Yeah, I mean, how do you create
AI think? I think that's a muscle and a
(36:32):
practice and a prioritization, right.
That is what is your spiritual practice?
You know, for me that's I go to church, but I also trail run and
that's just honestly just as much a part of the religious
practice as the church part. And that's space.
And then and yeah, kind of like,do you do you create that time
(36:55):
and you honor it? You know, you got to have some,
there's like ritual there. You have to protect it and you
have to honor it and you have tobelieve in it and like put some
work into it. So I think all of that, but from
a business perspective, honestly, one of the things that
you know, is, is really important I think for what we
(37:20):
do, for what Volta does is remembering, you know, like a
lot of waste management companies or car mobile
companies, this is real tangibleinfrastructure and jobs and
lives and safety. And it's like safety of humans
at an industrial site. It is safety of truck drivers,
it is safety of local environments when you're doing
(37:42):
something new with where waste goes or where you know where
carbon goes and like you have tobe really careful and and
intentional and safety oriented and thoughtful.
It is not a move fast and break things industry or it shouldn't
be. I think there is a lot of danger
(38:03):
there. Danger not only for people and
environments that we're trying to protect with the point of
what we do is to try to protect humans environment, but also
like danger for the industry of like, if you move fast and break
things and you're a young industry, you know, you're not
going to build the credibility and the and the proof point that
you need to grow. And so like the intentionality I
(38:25):
think that spirituality brings and that clarity.
It's it's a little bit slower maybe than a Silicon Valley
software startup. It's a little bit deeper.
And I think that's a great matchfor like what we do, you know,
at vaulted, a lot of other developers do, which is like
real world operations and, you know, care for the humans that
(38:47):
work at the company and around the company and the environments
as well. So like, I almost feel like it
flows really well. It's like almost aligned from
like a business perspective of what we should be doing and also
where it comes from. And I also, this is a little bit
of a tangent, but I think we've got, I might, I might really
(39:09):
need to think about if I want this for the show or not.
But I think we, I think we have an opportunity right now of just
leaders, especially in America and globally, maybe like leaders
figuring out how to lead in a different way.
I've seen, I think we've seen a style of leadership for the last
(39:30):
20-30 years that has been a little bit more, I'll call it
nuts and bolts like business perspective.
This is what we should do, action oriented, a little more
front of brain. And I think one of the coolest
things that I'm interested in right now and a part of my job
and one of the most rewarding islike, how could you think about
(39:51):
being a different type of leaderthat leads from a different
place and is still incredibly effective and still builds a
great big profitable business, but come at it from a little bit
of a different spiritual place. So it different energetically.
And what could that mean for thecompany that you're creating and
like the business that you're trying to build?
And I don't know what the answeris to that yet, but to me that's
(40:13):
like the most exciting journey that we could be on, that I
could be on in terms of my own career.
What is it about saying something like that that makes
you feel, puts you in a positionof vulnerability that you may
want to take it out of? This show is there.
I feel like what you said is totally sensible.
I would want to work with someone who was tuned into this
(40:35):
stuff and emotionally not a maniac.
And I've worked with plenty of CE OS who are straight up
maniacs and I would not take another job if I, if I caught a
whiff of that. At this point, I'm like, you
know what? I don't want to do this and I
don't think we're going to get along if I do this.
And so you telling me this makesme trust you more.
I'm like, OK, Julia, someone that I would follow into this
(40:55):
with because I know that the thematters of the heart that are so
important that people always neglect and say are for big
stupid softies are not appropriate for a leader.
That's like, we need someone who's like really good at making
hard decisions and that's not someone who's soft.
I actually do not think that's true at all.
It's a bad meme. I would like to see that meme
(41:15):
replaced with something better than it, but you feel like even
if you know it's true, it's hardfor you to say that out loud in
a business context. Yeah, and I totally agree.
I'm like there, there's to me, there's nothing like maybe
there's a softness and an intentionality in part of it,
but there's not a, we're not going to make hard decisions and
(41:39):
we're not going to make the tough, you know, tough calls or
have those tough conversations. Like to me, there's like, how do
you lead in a place where you'rejust as, if not more effective
from like a business outcomes perspective, You're not losing
to me again, the North Star is like, it has to be a big
impactful, profitable business to matter on an impact scale.
So like there's no fighting, there's no conflict of interest
(42:01):
there. Like we make money when we put
tons underground, which is the impact that we want to have.
So like it's Co linear in the, you know, framework of TPG.
And so like I'm I'm not in conflict there.
And that's one of the things I love most about vaulted is like
there is that really deep alignment.
But I, yeah, I think, you know, there's a keeping, keeping a
(42:25):
focus on being a really effective business leader that
is building a big, profitable, successful company.
Could you actually do that just energetically from that
different place? I have this like talking about
instinct. I have this like instinct that
this is where we're headed. My hope is that this is where
we're headed as a society, that maybe we did decades and decades
(42:47):
of this old leadership style that caused a lot of people a
lot of pain. And it was very profit over
everything. And it was profit maximizing,
you know, which of course is kind of in some ways the way our
capital system works. And I'm wondering if like
there's like a new wave of leadership coming that I would
be excited to be a part of that thinks about it differently.
(43:11):
And that's like kind of like when I think about like the
world in 20-30 years, like maybemaybe we're headed in a really
cool direction from that standpoint.
What is happening at Vaulted now?
What's next for y'all? And then we will find ourselves
at the conclusion of this episode that went in a bunch of
unexpected ways, I think, for both of us.
(43:34):
Sure did. I loved it.
I absolutely loved it. But it was definitely not what I
was thought we were going to talk about.
So that's OK. What is Walter doing?
I mean, so you know, as I, as I kind of mentioned before and as
you know faulted at the core of it, we're really a, a waste
management company, right. We take organic waste that today
(43:57):
goes to landfills, incinerators or land app and is really just
being disposed of and we take that and we find a better home
for it. We put it really deep
underground where it's permanently stored and you know
that's better for climate because we're locking away all
that carbon and it's also healthier for sort of local
environments. And so we've been doing that as
I mentioned in both Great Plainsand our Hutchinson, KS site as
(44:19):
well as with our partner Vantec and Los Angeles.
So big piece of what we've done the last couple of years is
really showing that we can do carb removal at scale from those
operational facilities, right? So we've done, we've done you
know, over 25,000 tons of durable carbon removal to date.
We're on track to do, I hope. Fingers crossed.
(44:41):
On track to do you know, something like 50,000 tons this
year alone? No, just like I'm really here.
I'm I'm here for scale. You know, it's like if it's big.
Like non biochar numbers? Really good.
Yeah. If it's not here for scale, like
it's it to me, it really mattersthat we can show it.
And and that's also one of the the great gifts of being a
(45:01):
spinoff. You know, we're only four years.
Technically, we're only 2 1/2 years old.
I've been working on Vaulted forfour years because the spinoff
took some time, as you can imagine, to get right.
But you know, one of the magicalthings is that we spun off with
a mature technology and these two sites that we were able to
kind of press play on really quickly.
So we kind of my Co founder did 15 years of tech development so
we could get to the place where we could sort of press play and
(45:23):
and get to that scale. So, you know, we're really
focused on like just continuing to make it more and more
efficient. We're finding new ways to get
more efficient even at our current sites and ramp up trucks
and and figuring out how to, youknow, lower emissions with every
ton. So there's like more sort of
processing there in terms of yeah, sort of efficiency at
(45:45):
those operating sites. And then what we did the last
couple of years was really as you know, sort of build that
carbon removal reputation and brand and had some good success
in, in selling to some of the bigger buyers.
So with, you know, Frontier, we signed with them like 115,000
(46:07):
tons that takes us I think it was 2024 to 2028 ish.
And that was sort of a really good chunk of our first, you
know, deliveries out of our operating sites.
We then had sort of a landmark deal with Microsoft of nearly 5
million tons, which we signed last year.
That really gets us, you know, nearly to 2040.
And so that's just like this magical kind of, like I said
(46:31):
before, revolutionary. I really believe that, you know,
kind of contract where we can then say, OK, we know we have
demand to really do this at scale.
We know we have a technology that works.
Let's go build those sites like let's go get more sites online
so we can really do this, you know, a megaton by 20-30.
That's the North star of the company.
And so most of the company is focused on new site development,
(46:54):
right? Most of the company is going and
finding OK, you know, across theUS and and North America.
And then you know, the world oneday where those good sites of
good, good geology ways where wecan actually solve that problem,
right? Where there's ideally, I mean,
there ideally there's a local problem to be solved, right?
Maybe there's a PFAS issue, you know, PFAS like forever
(47:16):
chemical. Maybe there's a nutrient runoff
issue, maybe there's an odor issue or a methane issue, right?
Where can we go in and actually say there is a local
environmental contamination issue because of waste that's
being disposed of. We can come in and be that
partner that's not only like better, you know, better waste
management and sort of disposal solution, but also we can kind
(47:37):
of solve that local, you know, maybe environmental
contamination issue or communityhealth issue.
So we can come in and really saylike, there's a reason why we're
here. We're not just here to fight
climate change broadly. We're here to help you not smell
that on the way to work or not have PFAS in your drinking
water, right? Like, and that also really
helps, of course, to to get the trust and engagement with the
communities. And then of course, we always
(47:58):
we, you know, work under class 5permits with EPA.
So then of course we're always finding where's their permit,
where's their waste and where's their geology?
And so most of the team time nowis like, OK, let's go look at,
you know, kind of those sites and work with our waste partners
to go find those really good Co located sites.
So we like to be like right at the paper mill or right at the
wastewater treatment facility orright at the landfill.
(48:19):
So we're not trucking. And it's like the most
efficient, cost effective waste management and carbon removal
that we can be. What's it like having a company
spin out of an existing company within carbon removal?
Does that work? Yeah, it's its own thing.
It's its own thing. I've actually now started like a
(48:40):
spin off founder support group where there's like only founder
done spin offs. I don't.
Know how many? How many others are even are
there? Not just in car mobile like in
general and most climate tech founders, but it's, it's, it's a
really different interesting journey.
So I, I could talk about this for a long time, but yeah, it's
(49:02):
pretty different. Like you get this amazing, you
know, head start in a lot of ways, you know, depending on
what you're spinning off, if it's a technology or a team or a
plant or, you know, whatever it might be.
And then you know it, there's also a lot of dynamics that come
with that, right? You've got then, you know, a
company that you spun out of that has their own perspective
(49:24):
and thoughts and feelings and needs from all sorts of angles.
And I think you have to be really clear about why you need
to spin off like, what is what, what can you do as a separate
organization that they couldn't do or didn't want to do or that
you could do better at. And so you've got to get like
really clear really early. So I think it's interesting.
(49:46):
It forces a lot of good intellectual rigor around what
you're trying to build, why you're trying to build it.
What can you bring that other people can't bring?
You know, what's your theory of change?
Like all of that was forced pretty early because I couldn't
just be like, OK, we're going tolike get going and just start
doing stuff, right. You had to do a year and a half
of picture painting and analysisto get the go ahead to spin off,
(50:09):
right? So it's an interesting,
interesting journey, you know, from that perspective, I think
it forced a lot of honestly really good discussion and align
a lot of like alignment with, you know, the existing company.
And then you also have to get capital that understands that
journey. And I, I will say lower carbon
was our letter C drowned and they were fantastic partners to
(50:32):
like be a part of that journey with us to help us understand,
like, you know, how do you valueintellectual property and how do
you think about the value of this intangible thing within the
company and then outside of the company and sort of be a a
capital partner as we like unlock that spin off.
So it's very interesting. There's a lot of dynamics, as
(50:52):
you can imagine, with multiple stakeholders.
But if you can get it to work, which is a big, you know, I
think one of the things I learned was I stepped back at
some point. I was like, Oh, you actually
don't see that many venture backed spin offs.
And that's for I was like, I wastrying to find, I was trying to
find this support group that I started eventually.
(51:14):
And I was like, oh, it doesn't. I can't find it because there's,
there's not that many. And that should have told me
something, how hard it was, but I didn't know.
So I, I went ahead and we figured out a way at the end.
And I think we're all glad we did.
I love doing shows on alternative means of founding,
(51:34):
funding and exiting and this hasnot been one of them.
Is there a lot of opportunity todo this spin out model or is it
just pure luck that you're here?It sounds like probably is
closer to that than anything, but are there opportunities that
people were looking in the rightplaces?
They might be able to find dealslike yours and duplicate them.
(51:56):
Maybe I, I think, I think you definitely need, you definitely
need some luck and you need, I think at the end of the day, you
need a company. If you're spinning out of a
company, you need a company thatcan see and appreciate the
vision of what you're trying to build and why you need to spend
(52:20):
out, right? Because like the status quo is
that company owns 100% of the thing.
And I think a natural starting place is like, why wouldn't we
just do it? We could build another business
harm or we could, you know, havea subsidiary, you know, like why
why would I go give up 100% ownership to, you know, have
(52:42):
this be its own, you know, its own little Organism that then I
don't fully control and I don't own 100% of it.
If you're if it is going to be this really big, magical,
valuable thing, you know, why would I take that trade off?
And so you have to be like, you have to find, I think that a
team on that company side that understands sort of the value
you can create when you're, whenyou spun off and make that
(53:05):
really clear. And, and frankly, like a lot of
leadership teams, 1, you know, Ithink they got to see it, which
is hard and take some, some vision and some trust.
And then they really have to trust you that you were going to
be able to do it and you're not going to go spin it off and then
fail in two years. And hey, they could have, you
know, they could have kept it. So I think there's some trust
(53:26):
building that's really importantin that journey.
Thanks for being on, Julia. Really appreciated having you,
and thanks for letting me ask you some frankly bizarre
questions. I'm glad we got to.
Do this. Thanks Ross.
I loved it. I had a great time and it was
really interesting and thought provoking.
So thank you for asking those questions.
(53:47):
I don't. I honestly don't get asked those
every day, so it's pretty cool.
Hey, thank you. SO.
Much for listening to Reversing Climate Change, this is Ross.
Kenyon, I'm the host of the show.
The two sponsors are Eco Engineers and Philip Lee LLP.
Oh, Eco Engineers. What isn't Eco Engineers?
I've had a really great vantage point of carbon dioxide removal
and so often I'll start talking with a company and they will say
(00:21):
something like, Oh well, we've been working with Eco Engineers
for a while now, either trying to build this methodology,
you're just trying to figure this project out, trying to get
the quantification right, tryingto figure this MRV out.
That has happened to me so many times and I've been glad to see
them have so much success with so many companies in our space.
Eco Engineers is essentially A consultancy that helps carbon
(00:42):
removal tech and project developers get to market
effectively. If you've ever started a
company, one of the early decisions that you're going to
need to make is which of these things can we bring in house and
which of these things do we needto pay consultants for?
And often the conventional knowledge here is that it always
makes sense to bring stuff in house if you can.
(01:02):
But I think bringing in very experienced consultants early on
can save projects a lot of time and money.
For instance, you might end up on the phone with David Lagreca.
Dave's going to be on the podcast soon and David has done,
I don't know, dozens of methodologies within the
voluntary carbon market. And if you could just get on the
phone with David for a little bit and you are trying to bring
(01:26):
a new methodology or protocol tomarket, you have some new
approach. You're a biochar project and
you're trying to figure out, given your technology, region,
biomass availability, what is the best way for me to work
within the options that I have available to me?
That's a person that you could very easily be paired with.
David will likely shave off timeand money from what would
(01:49):
otherwise be a process that is pretty overwhelming.
And that's just the start of it too.
ECO has been engaged with peopleI I've known or worked with,
from everything from project design to the actual MRV plans,
doing the LCA itself, registering the project, doing
the diligence support, feasibility studies, tech
(02:09):
evaluations, market eligibility.I feel like they're.
Halfway to being an EPC without actually being an EPC is for
some of these things. Sometimes you don't necessarily
need one person full time thinking only about your
project. Sometimes it makes sense to get
10 people on a fractional basis who have worked on collectively
hundreds or maybe thousands of projects.
(02:30):
Whether or not that will be the way for your company to go,
you'll have to take the calls tofigure it out.
And I think, I very much think. You should do that.
The link is in the show notes. If you'd like to get in touch
with Eco Engineers, tell them Ross Kenyon sent you.
Philip Lee LLP is a law firm with a lot of experience in
carbon markets and carbon removal.
(02:50):
If you've been working in this space for really any amount of
time, you probably have noticed that you do need competent
counsel to do business here. The contracts that get signed
are frankly pretty weird. You're going to need help from a
lawyer with a red pen, I'm sorryto inform you.
Your only choice is basically who they should be.
And if you are deciding who theyshould be, you should be
(03:12):
considering Philip Lee LLP. They've won Environmental
Finances VCM Law Firm of the Year for the last GOSH since
2023. Essentially, it hasn't happened
yet for 2026. I imagine they're a contender.
For it this year as well. They are the largest legal team
dedicated to the financing and development of carbon projects
globally and they have offices in the US, Europe and the UK.
(03:33):
One cool new thing I just learned actually is that they
have been listed as a firm in Chambers Global as a global
market leader in the area of climate change.
This listing alliance Philip LeeLLP with around 15 to 20 of the
leading law firms practicing in this practice area in the entire
world. So Congrats to Philip Lee LLP.
Thank you to Philip Lee LLP for your generous support of the
(03:55):
show. You make it possible for me to
dedicate so much time to puttingout content that I hope is
useful to our friends and peers and fellow travellers in the
world of carbon removal, climatechange and carbon markets.
Thanks so much. Here's the show.
(04:19):
Thanks so much for listening to Reversing Climate Change.
This is Ross Kenny and the host of the show.
I am a climate tech and carbon dioxide removal entrepreneur.
I'm not going to spend a lot of time introducing today's guest
because she explains what they do very well at the start of the
episode. Our guest is Julia Reichlstein
who is the Co founder and CEO ofVaulted.
Deep They are a carbon dioxide removal project developer.
(04:40):
They take contaminated biomatterand pump it underground.
The debate over competing uses for biomass will persist for a
long time, and I suspect we'll continue.
As biomass has more and more value as people start to use it
for productive things and Julia,in dealing with the some very
nasty materials, is able to sidestep.
Out of that very large looming issue, or at the very Least
(05:03):
Concern for those using biomass for carbon and climate purposes,
I'm. Going to start the show right
after this. If I could just make a quick ask
if you could please open up yourpodcast app and give this show
five stars in Apple Podcast or Spotify.
Write a quick review on Apple Podcast if you're able.
If you could follow me and or the show on sub stack that's
also super valuable. And if you'd like you could
(05:23):
become a paid subscriber on Spotify. 5 bucks a month gets
rid of all the ads I don't read myself and occasional bonus
content. Thanks so much for.
Listening. Here's the show with Julia
that's been drinking water on the record.
Am I allowed to drink coffee on the record then?
(05:45):
You are allowed to drink coffee on the record.
Yeah. Thanks for coming on, Julia.
Thanks for having me, I'm reallyexcited to chat.
I am too. I was happy we got a chance to
hang out in Vancouver at Carbon Unbound.
It was really nice to get a chance to meet in person.
I always like going to those events too.
So many of these people I see, it's like the disembodied torso
of everyone I know, and then I get to see the rest of everyone,
(06:05):
which was really nice. Yeah, yeah, it's awesome.
And it's fun to like, see. Yeah, It's fun to see like, what
feels sometimes like an old group of friends, you know, that
we kind of were there. A lot of us were there at the
beginning of an industry. And it felt really magical and
pretty unique in terms of this. Like, you know, I'd say it's
(06:26):
like this like call to action oflike we need carbon removal and
the IPCC report came out and we need shots on goal as Frontier
says. And, and then there was just a
lot of people that heeded that call.
And so now I feel like, you know, in those early days of the
market, there were not that manysuppliers.
And you could look around the room and you're like, I kind of
have been in these trenches trying to, you know, help
(06:47):
collectively grow these, this industry with these people for,
you know, 5 plus years now. And that's pretty special.
I feel like I have never been a part of an industry like that
before. And I feel, I feel like, pretty
grateful to be a part of it. You came in through a strange
way too, where you were an investor and I think you
probably cycled through ideas and engineered something that
(07:10):
would get to the right volume and price dynamics that would.
People don't really do that for carbon removal.
People usually start with like, I really like biochar and I live
in Oregon and therefore I'm doing biochar in Oregon or
they're a scientist who came up with a novel electrochemistry
pathway and then they're going to commercialize that.
And you had the benefit, I think, of that extra layer out
(07:30):
of what actually makes sense to do that's a viable commercial
enterprise. Am I reading you correctly?
Is that how you did it? This is like your mythology that
I'm recounting to you. Yeah.
I mean, to some degree, honestly, it's given me probably
more credit than it's due than it's due.
I didn't have like a spreadsheetof, you know, 100 ideas and the
cost benefit analysis. But yeah, I mean, I was, I was a
(07:52):
venture capitalist before I started vaulted, Co founded
Vaulted. And I mean, just being AVC in
general is like the most magicaljob to be a founder, right?
Like I couldn't imagine a betterjob if you want to be a founder
because you're getting this likebird's eye view of businesses in
general. And I was at Piva Capital, so we
invested in climate and deep tech across, you know, all
(08:16):
industries or anything that sortof touched climate or deep tech.
And so I was seeing companies grow, you know, everything from
seed to, I think series C so pretty like good stage of, of
development, but you just like, you get to discuss like
businesses and what makes them successful and theories of how
they're gonna win and how they're gonna, you know, track
(08:38):
the right capital, how they're gonna grow HR people, you know,
all of it together. And that was like this like
pretty, pretty magical experience to be like, oh, I
understand now. Some pattern recognition of how,
you know, the companies paint that through line of, you know,
growing up and and getting to, you know, be big and successful
(08:59):
and then hopefully have a good exit.
And so like I already had that in my brain after a couple of
years of just being a venture investor in general.
And then, you know, I got prettylucky.
I was at peeve at a time like 2020 when like carbon removal
markets were really starting to take off and you know, Stripe
was putting $8 million. I remember like the first $8
million purchase, I think from my now board member Ryan Orbach.
(09:22):
And he was like, you know, we'regoing to, you know, we're going
to put this forward and, and start purchasing durable carbon
removal. And yeah, it was just, I mean,
as we were just talking about like just this huge call for
innovation. And so I got pretty deep down
that space, I kind of went down the rabbit hole and all of a
sudden that was like all I wanted to do at Piva was talk
(09:43):
about carbon removal and talk tocarbon removal companies.
And it was early days. And I remember talking to, you
know, Noya and charm and heirloom and, and just like
understanding all the business models.
And then I got pretty clear likethat I wanted to kind of join
them. I was like, this is such an
exciting space. We need it so badly.
(10:03):
There's so much room here for innovation.
There's great new ideas. Like, you know, kind of felt
like every other week coming out.
And I loved being an investor, but I had always wanted to be a
founder. It was like deep in my heart.
And so I I left and they were sosupportive.
They they agreed to sort of support me as like an entre in
(10:26):
residence for I think almost an extra year.
And so that was incredible. And it was actually someone at
the fund who introduced me to mynow Co founder.
And so it was this pretty serendipitous.
Like, you know, we actually got introduced about something
totally different. Not, not about carbon removal,
you know, not not about the technology at all.
But you know, he was telling me,my Co founder Omar, he sort of
(10:50):
took, you know, an invention by his father which is slurry,
slurry injection. So deep, deep well slurry
injection. And he really had commercialized
that in the oil and gas sector, using it for oil field waste
disposal. And he was sort of telling me
about this and sort of telling me about sort of most of the oil
field work. It wasn't quite, you know,
relevant to what I was thinking about at the time.
(11:13):
But then he told me about, you know, this project in the city
of Los Angeles that takes 20% ofthe city of L as biosolids every
year. So it's human waste, post waste
for our treatment facility. And, you know, he was kind of
telling me about this and it waslike, you know, it's really good
for the environment. We're taking that waste.
We're, you know, it's Co located.
It's right there on site. We sort of slurify it.
(11:33):
We put it 5000 plus feet underground.
It stays down there forever. It's safe, it doesn't cause
earthquakes, it doesn't leak. We've been doing it for 15 plus
years safely. And it's just much better for
the environment, right? Like anything that site doesn't
take gets like trucked almost 300 miles round trip, you know,
to the Central Valley where it'skind of spread on land, not
(11:55):
productively used because it's, you know, it's it's human waste.
So it has PFAS has other contaminants in it and you know,
that's going into, obviously it's, it's decomposing and back
into the atmosphere. So the the CO2 is being re
released, there's methane. And then obviously anything
that's in that waste is going back out into local land, air
and water as it's just sort of decomposing and going into
groundwater. And so there's some, you know,
(12:18):
climate change benefits from putting it underground, right?
You're obviously trapping that carbon really deep in the
subsurface, You're avoiding methane.
And then you're also, you know, helping protect local land, air
and water because those pathogens or anything that's in
that waste is not going back outinto local communities.
Anyway. He was telling me all this and
he was like, yeah, it's the first project in the world to do
(12:38):
deep, well, injection of organicwaste.
Like, we're the first company totry it never been tried before.
And I remember on that phone call, I remember being like,
whoa, like, whoa. I thought I had.
I honestly, I was like, I thought I had talked to every
two guys in a lab thinking aboutcarbon removal.
And I feel like I just like, metthis person who was doing, you
(13:01):
know, to some degree, one of thelargest car removal projects
that nobody had ever heard of. And I was like, think like I, I
had one of those moments where Iwas like, take a step back,
like, you know, this is waste. He was, you know, he's a waste
management company. He's like, yeah, we got paid to
put it underground. It's really good waste
management. You know, we're saving disposal
and processing fees and we're helping, you know, protect local
environments. And I was like, 100%.
(13:23):
It's great waste management. It is also great carbon removal
because it is durable, it is measurable, it has Co benefits,
it's low cost, it's efficient, right?
And and we know it can work and it's safe.
And I just was like, that is a great carbon removal idea.
And we kind of just like blinkedup, you know, he came with the
tech and the operating side and I came with the like.
(13:45):
This is how you can think about carbon removal markets and the
sales aspect and how you actually like build a both the
Cdr and a waste management company.
Wow. What was the idea that preceded
it? What was the the top contender
before you got into contaminatedbiomass induction?
Is that is that, can I say it that way?
Is that allowed or is there am Iwrong in some way?
(14:09):
I just say deep well, like deep well disposal, yeah, waste
disposal. I think what I like about it is
so many other companies that deal with biomass in the future,
they may be competing for biomass that has alternative
uses that are like pretty high. Like maybe you'll compete with
pyrolysis for biosolids. Like maybe that's like a future
I would like to live in a futurewhere people were actually
(14:30):
trying to bid that resource up. That might actually be a future
that was net positive in in someway.
But you're not going to be fighting over like force residue
sawmill stuff. That's not going to be you.
And that's sort of like a nice place to be.
Yeah, I, I totally agree. And and I use the word waste
pretty intentionally. Like we really are taking real
(14:53):
waste. And I say that like I know it's
a waste because for the most part we get paid to take it.
And we are a waste management company that does waste disposal
as a service. Just like you would pay a
landfill to dispose of your waste or you would pay a waste
management company to dispose ofyour waste.
And I like that better for a number of reasons, right?
I like, I like those wastes, one, because they happen to be
(15:13):
go really well with the technology.
A lot of the wastes that we get paid for are moisture intensive.
So they're sludgy. So I say the word sludge, right?
Moisture intensive, oftentimes contaminated, pretty aggregated.
And so they don't make great energy feedstock because you'd
have to dewater them. They don't make great fertilizer
because they're oftentimes contaminated.
And so right now they're going to landfills or land
(15:36):
application, maybe incineration.And so I like, I like taking
those ways because yeah, they don't have a better use.
You can get paid to take them, which is really important, I
think to, to build a scalable, you know, durable, profitable
company. And you're solving a really
tangible local problem, right? Like when there is a waste
management issue, you're solvingA tangible local problem for
(15:58):
that company that has the waste.And then also for that
community. That's like feeling the impacts
of wherever that waste is going today, right?
You put in a landfill, it's not gone.
You still smell it. There's still leachate issues.
You spread it on land. You still got, you know,
groundwater, you know, issues incineration, you've got, you
know, air quality issues. So I really like the specificity
of waste because it's saying that like that local problem,
(16:21):
the paying for it. And then, yeah, it's not, I
don't call it a byproduct, I don't call it a residue because
we're really focused on literally, you know, the waste
piece of it. Does that make sense now?
Waste. As a concept here is something
that it's a little bit too nebulous, I think.
Liability, biomass, I think it'smaybe a better term for a lot of
(16:42):
this. But then also like all of the
same stuff gets lumped into it. And also the endless taxonomical
churn. Like doesn't really matter what
we call these things. Half the time people think like
if we found the one right phrase, it'll unlock all of the
social dynamics around like who has to host these projects and
like why and blah, blah, blah. So whatever, waste liability,
whatever. OK, I want to go back to this
(17:03):
question though, Like what preceded it?
Were you already in the biomass gang?
Were you like, this is like a category that I want to explore
further or were you even considering direct air capture?
Other pathways previous to vaulted.
No, yeah, I I almost wish I was as methodical as maybe the
(17:26):
question kind. Of gut driven, are you like like
pretty intuitive? Is that what it is?
I'm very gut driven. Yeah, I'm very gut driven and
I'm very, you know, I, I, I do this work because I am impact
driven. I, you know, I feel that very
strongly. It to me impact is what is sort
of the good you're creating in the world multiplied by the
(17:49):
scale you're doing it at. And so while I'm very impact
driven, I am very business driven at the same time.
Because this actually ties to your question.
You know, I spent the 1st part of my career in International
Development, right? I lived in Peru.
I lived in Nairobi, Kenya for a bunch of years.
And I was working primarily, youknow, with the unbanked
(18:09):
population, so people that don'thave, you know, credit scores
and don't have access to formal financial services.
And I was working with a lot of smallholder farmers in rural
Kenya, Ethiopia, Uganda, a little bit of Somalia and, you
know, doing sort of more like parametric crop insurance or
like financial inclusion fintechwork, which was amazing and I
(18:31):
loved it. But I saw kind of two things.
One, I saw climate change is very real in that part of the
world and it's happening now andit's causing a lot of distress
in terms of droughts and floods and food insecurity and conflict
of migration and, you know, whole host of stuff that we
know. So that really led me to want to
(18:52):
work on climate. But then too, I saw, you know,
frankly, a lot of smaller socialenterprises that had great
impact intentions that could never really get profitability
there and they never really scaled.
And so for me, I felt very clear, like I want to build a
very impactful business, but it needs to be a good business that
is profitable, that can make a lot of money, that can really
(19:14):
hit the scale. That's important for climate
change and that, you know, important for, you know, I think
the world and what and what I wanted to build.
So my lens was in that vein a little bit more.
And actually the other idea I was working on was I actually
went back to Nairobi for a couple of months in that time
and was looking at, you know, how to build some of like the
(19:36):
infrastructure layer around getting carbon projects in
emerging markets, better access to the VCM and to, you know,
registries and doing more of like the MRV quality stuff.
So it was, it was totally different.
I wasn't going to be a, a project developer specifically,
but I really, I love one of the things I love about car removal
(19:58):
is, you know, it's, it's like fungible in some ways.
So you can remove a ton in, you know, East Africa or you can
move a ton in California. And it's like the atmosphere
doesn't care where it comes from, which is like an amazing
potential opportunity for emerging economies and you know,
ways to build, build economies in that way and, and have
(20:20):
investment and job creation there.
So I was really interested in that and I was sort of looking
at something there too. But then.
Once I started really working with Omar on Vaulted and we sort
of got it going a little bit more, it became clear like that
was the thing that I really wantto spend my time on.
OK, But there wasn't like another carbon removal pathway
that maybe you felt called to intuitively, but to a lesser
(20:42):
extent. It was sort of like taking a
broad survey, less methodical than maybe I'm presenting it.
But then once you came upon thisorganic slurry injection, you're
like, this is the thing I've been waiting for.
Everything else I've been looking at previously was on a
similar plane of curiosity, and this is the thing.
Is that appropriate characterization?
Yeah, yeah. I also would say I met Omar
(21:06):
three days after leaving my job.So it was really, it was kind of
serendipitous, you know, magicaltiming.
And I think in my mind you got to listen to the timings of the
universe. You know, I'm pretty instinct
driven in that way too. So I kind of listen to it.
Let's talk about that. I am also that way.
(21:26):
I'm pretty analytical too, but Ioften think I make my best
decisions when I'm able to access things that are less
articulable, things that kind ofjust feel right.
I tried not to betray myself. There have been times in
business where I've allowed myself to be talked out of my
gut by colleagues in various ways, though.
I look back on like, I really wish I had stood my ground, even
(21:47):
though I didn't always have the perfect convincing language to
do so. And you're nodding your head.
You probably feel similarly. How do you know you're doing
that for the right reasons, though?
Because I can imagine someone also weaponizing this intuition
and vetoing things that maybe they're doing for the wrong
reasons. Like, how do you actually ferret
out what's happening and when isyour body really smart and when
is it not really that smart? Yeah, yeah.
(22:10):
Wow. I love that question.
I think for me it's it's, it's ahard 1 to get right.
And I think for me it's like, how do you get get enough and
give yourself and get enough space to really sit with it?
(22:31):
I think as you know, as a, as a founder, as ACEO, there's a lot
of pressure and a lot of instinct to like move super
quick and be super action oriented.
And you know, you're facing opportunities and threats and
distractions all day, every day.And you know, I think for a lot
of us, being in execution mode is actually more comfortable,
(22:55):
right? Like we're good at it.
I love action. I love moving fast.
I love being on that, you know, super quick speed.
And in some ways it feels amazing and you can feel like
you're getting a lot done. I think what it can do sometimes
is disconnect a little bit from the gut when you're moving so
(23:16):
quickly. And so I think for me, I've had
to learn and it's been a journey.
I've had to learn like, OK, how do we move, you know, slower
from from a human perspective? Me, me as Julia, as the CEO, how
do I create enough space so I can really sit with it?
And then really like really likeask yourself those hard
(23:36):
questions like where is this really coming from?
Is it, is it really that good gut instinct and you want to
listen to it? Or is there is there some ego in
there? Is there some fear in there?
Is there something else clogged in those gears that you should
maybe like really look at and reflect on and say, hey, you
know, we're going to sit with this a little bit more.
So I don't know. I try and do that for me.
(23:58):
I'm a big trail runner. So I do that a lot in nature.
I do even as you know, see and it's been crazy the last couple
of years at Vaulted, the crazierit got, the longer my runs got.
I started, you know, at first itwas like half hour, then I
started doing hour. Now my runs are like 2 hours.
You know, people are like, how do you find the time?
And I'm like, it's the best thing I do with CEO is go on
those long runs and like really meditate on some stuff and try,
(24:22):
yeah, try and really keep yourself honest.
You know, like really what is happening here for me?
Try to make the right decision. I think people would imagine
that for project developers likeFaulted or some of the other
very successful carbon removal project developers, the job gets
easier at a certain point. Like you have major off takes,
(24:46):
you have some amount of financial security, it is
presumed by outsiders. Things are probably going well
enough where I don't know if theTeams at Frontier or Microsoft
or Google have vetted you enoughto link their reputation to
yours. You're probably on the right
track and therefore it's easy. But I know enough to know I know
(25:07):
many of these people and it isn't really like that one.
What do you think people do think that?
And what is it really like? Why are your runs getting
longer? Surely they should be getting
shorter. You should just be like going on
like a 5 minute, like let your dog pee in the yard kind of walk
at this point. Like isn't it?
Isn't it good for you now? Yeah, You know, it's just
(25:28):
different. It's just different.
I don't, I don't know if it's easier or harder.
It's different problems. And I think it takes a different
skill. And and I think actually that's
one of the coolest things about being ACEO and being a founder
is like there's so much personaldevelopment that happens because
you have to learn how to be the right CEO for that stage of
(25:51):
business, right? Like, and in the early days it
was like, OK, how do I you know,the skill sets were storytelling
and painting a picture, paintinga vision that people could
understand and get behind because all there was was a
pitch deck, right? It was so early and convincing
people that you were going to bea good steward of their money
and a good investment. Or, you know, for us, we spun
(26:12):
out of my Co founders company. So there was a lot of you know,
how do you that company had to decide that they wanted to, you
know, bless the spin off and that we were going to create,
not destroy value. And of course that was, you
know, that took time and survision pic.
So there's like storytelling andthen obviously early team
formation. It's a lot of doing it yourself.
And there was a lot of like justdoing like as I talked about
(26:34):
earlier, there's a lot of just like how quickly can you move?
And my days were jam packed and I was moving a mile a minute and
I was trying to do, you know, a lot myself and then get early,
get early people on board. And then as the company grows,
yeah, you get it's much more about human, you know,
(26:57):
development and being a good manager and figuring out how to
be the right leader for the right stage of company for your
leadership team and developing that team and making sure that
you're functioning really well on team.
You've got good organizational health, right?
You could management systems, good boundaries, a good culture.
And then, and then you, you know, you'll sort of I think for
(27:20):
us really continuously learning of you know, kind of the early
stages were really get our, our existing sites ramped up.
And I think we did a pretty goodjob of that.
We've got sort of two sites we work with one in, in Hutchinson,
KS, our Great Plains facility and then one in Los Angeles, CA,
the one I mentioned before whichyou know we work with Advantech,
(27:43):
the company we spin out of our partner on that one.
But both of them now are really ramping up.
And so there was a lot of early,OK, how do you really
operationalize carbon removal? How do you get from that site in
Kansas when we started was doinglike 2 trucks a week.
We do, you know, 50 trucks a day.
So how do you do that ramp up? And so there's a lot of like
operational nuts and bolts learning that takes a really
(28:05):
different team than the team that's going to like take the
playbook and execute over 10 sites, right?
And so I think there's just beendifferent like stages of the, of
the company and of the progression.
But to me, one of the coolest and hardest things is like, what
does the company need me to be at each one of these stages?
And how can I figure out how to be that leader that's effective
(28:28):
at that stage? Because it's it's night and day
from two years ago, frankly, from a year ago, it's night and
day. It hasn't stayed the same for
more than a year. So I think that's a really cool
part of the job too. It mirrors what you said earlier
about selecting vaulted in this particular pathway where other
people come in looking through the other end of the telescope
(28:48):
and they're like, I have this technology, how do I
commercialize it? And I think a lot of people make
their companies in their own image, for better or for worse.
And sometimes that results in CEOS that last the duration and
get to, you know, what's the oldline?
You really get to be both rich and the king and like only a few
people get to be both. Zuckerberg is one of the people
(29:08):
who gets to be both. And it's like not that common.
Like a lot of CE OS get fired bytheir board much earlier because
the person who found something is not the same person who's
necessarily the best at growing it.
But I think a good portion of the way that one might be able
to blunt that threat as the CEO is to ask a question of and what
does the company need me to be? Not how do I fit the company
around my strengths and weaknesses so much as like, OK,
(29:31):
I'm a person who can learn and grow.
How do I be the right leader in this context?
And I don't hear people ask thatquestion that often.
I think it's a really emotionally and intellectually
wise way to do things. You get that just like beating
into you by experience or or howdo you possibly learn such a
thing? I, I am so grateful to the
(29:53):
people I have around me. Honestly, some of my board
members, my mentors, my coach, I'm pretty spiritual, my
spiritual life and sort of that practice like it's, it's, I have
a huge team that's like helping me figure this out.
And I, I feel endlessly blessed to like have them and have them
(30:17):
in my ear and, and have them supporting and coaching.
But I also think, and that's honestly like 99% of the answer.
And then I also think there's like something in there.
And what I actually said earlier, I think you're right,
is like, I do this work because I want to be in service.
Like it's really important for me.
Like the reason I'm doing this is because we want to have a
(30:37):
positive impact on the world andbe in service of a planet that
is habitable and safe for everyone for generations to
come. And so the reason I did this
work and started this work, it was to be in that service.
And then I'm like, OK, the pointis about the company.
The point is vaulted and vaultedbeing successful because I
really believe in what we're doing is so good for the planet
(31:00):
and so good for community healthand for local environments.
And so it's like, what can I do to be in service to the company
so the company can grow and be successful And like, as much as
I can change and try and be an effective leader, let me do
that. If there's a time where I'm not
the most effective leader, like no problem.
Vaulted is first. Like that's the very clear North
Star that that I feel and that Iactually think like the team
(31:22):
feels too. And that just keeps us like, you
know, eye on the horizon. I think like focused and
grounded. Great answer, less common than
maybe one would hope. All right, since you dropped the
you dropped a hard ass. So I have to to ask though, but
spirituality this this impacts your work.
(31:44):
You're like a hardcore nuts and bolts like operational
excellence, scaling a company. Are you even allowed to talk
about spirituality, Julia? How does how does it impact your
work at all? Yeah.
Am I allowed to? Yeah.
I, I, I mean, it's a huge part of who I am and I think it
(32:05):
probably does show up in the company, right?
It must. I think a, for me, a lot of
being spiritual is about feelingthat connection to the broader
world, the universe. I mean, you can take that in
whatever way you want. If you want to say God, if you
want to say the energy flows, ifyou want to say just humanity,
(32:28):
like whatever I just, I feel, I feel it and I can tap into it.
And I think like when you feel how connected we all are, if you
really see yourself like we are really the same, we are one and
you can feel that to some degree, then it makes it pretty
(32:50):
clear. It's, it's again, it comes to
the service part of like, of of course we want to help each
other and of course we want to contribute because it's not like
me being, you know, benevolent and like saying, Hey, I'll help
out over here. It's like we're the same.
We're, you know, it's, it's fulfilling in that way.
And I think it's good for our souls to be a part of
contributing too. So I think, I think it must show
(33:12):
up like really prominently and sort of like the ethos here.
I don't know if that makes any sense.
Yeah, I feel pretty similarly. I connect to that, too.
I'm smiling. I hope you don't read that in,
like, a patronizing, mocking kind of way.
Like, I also think this is a bigpart of the work, and people are
better off when they can acknowledge it in their own way.
(33:35):
OK. But then I have to take it to
one extra level, which is a little bit stranger.
So it's also possible this isn'tmaking the show, but.
So. Excited you feel like this?
Focus on big hard questions require more exercise, more
being in a condition of physicalextremity or exertion at the
(33:58):
very least. Do you ever feel like some of
these ideas, solutions, things come to you that don't feel
endogenous to your own brain, but maybe more like answers that
come to you in a spiritual way outside of just I'm super smart
and I'm running, but does creativity find you?
Do you resonate with this at all?
Yeah. 100% hundred. I like that.
(34:22):
Too. Yeah, I'm I kind of have this.
We can figure out if we want this in the show or not, but I
kind of have this like this likefront of brain is good, is good,
you know? OK, this is like front of house,
back of house here. Like the back of house, the back
of house that's like connected to this broader wisdom and this
(34:45):
broader universe. That's where the magic comes.
And so I think a lot of the timeI'm like, my job is to quiet
front of brain so I can hear back of brain, you know, and
that's where the that's where the best things come from.
And also the things that like are rooted in the right stuff,
you know, it's not the ego and it's not the fear and it's not
(35:06):
that stuff that can get cloudy. So 100%.
I said this on number a number of.
Podcasts previously, but so muchof my life has been about
cramming more knowledge into my brain and I think at some point
in the last couple years I realized there's serious
diminishing returns from that and actually I need to be
cultivating open space intuition, wisdom and noticing
(35:29):
how different those two things are and I'm I'm working on
trying to develop that because I, I feel like I have like the
raw ability to harness that I actually think that's like a
universally democratically accessible way of processing
information. It's not like you have to be
special or touched by the divinein some way to do that.
But I'm trying to create more space for creativity to find me
(35:50):
and for the less analytical, more intuitive part of my my
processing to to take over because some really important
insights have come from that. How, how can I better harness
that? What advice might you have for
people listening to this might sound a little bit woo or at
least semi woo, as Emily Swaddlerecently called it or, but like,
(36:11):
I think it's also true woo, as she also called it.
Like how do you, how do you actually do that and
operationalize it in a way that makes actual business sense that
you can say with a straight faceto your very serious board of
investors? Yeah, I mean, how do you create
AI think? I think that's a muscle and a
(36:32):
practice and a prioritization, right.
That is what is your spiritual practice?
You know, for me that's I go to church, but I also trail run and
that's just honestly just as much a part of the religious
practice as the church part. And that's space.
And then and yeah, kind of like,do you do you create that time
(36:55):
and you honor it? You know, you got to have some,
there's like ritual there. You have to protect it and you
have to honor it and you have tobelieve in it and like put some
work into it. So I think all of that, but from
a business perspective, honestly, one of the things that
you know, is, is really important I think for what we
(37:20):
do, for what Volta does is remembering, you know, like a
lot of waste management companies or car mobile
companies, this is real tangibleinfrastructure and jobs and
lives and safety. And it's like safety of humans
at an industrial site. It is safety of truck drivers,
it is safety of local environments when you're doing
(37:42):
something new with where waste goes or where you know where
carbon goes and like you have tobe really careful and and
intentional and safety oriented and thoughtful.
It is not a move fast and break things industry or it shouldn't
be. I think there is a lot of danger
(38:03):
there. Danger not only for people and
environments that we're trying to protect with the point of
what we do is to try to protect humans environment, but also
like danger for the industry of like, if you move fast and break
things and you're a young industry, you know, you're not
going to build the credibility and the and the proof point that
you need to grow. And so like the intentionality I
(38:25):
think that spirituality brings and that clarity.
It's it's a little bit slower maybe than a Silicon Valley
software startup. It's a little bit deeper.
And I think that's a great matchfor like what we do, you know,
at vaulted, a lot of other developers do, which is like
real world operations and, you know, care for the humans that
(38:47):
work at the company and around the company and the environments
as well. So like, I almost feel like it
flows really well. It's like almost aligned from
like a business perspective of what we should be doing and also
where it comes from. And I also, this is a little bit
of a tangent, but I think we've got, I might, I might really
(39:09):
need to think about if I want this for the show or not.
But I think we, I think we have an opportunity right now of just
leaders, especially in America and globally, maybe like leaders
figuring out how to lead in a different way.
I've seen, I think we've seen a style of leadership for the last
(39:30):
20-30 years that has been a little bit more, I'll call it
nuts and bolts like business perspective.
This is what we should do, action oriented, a little more
front of brain. And I think one of the coolest
things that I'm interested in right now and a part of my job
and one of the most rewarding islike, how could you think about
(39:51):
being a different type of leaderthat leads from a different
place and is still incredibly effective and still builds a
great big profitable business, but come at it from a little bit
of a different spiritual place. So it different energetically.
And what could that mean for thecompany that you're creating and
like the business that you're trying to build?
And I don't know what the answeris to that yet, but to me that's
(40:13):
like the most exciting journey that we could be on, that I
could be on in terms of my own career.
What is it about saying something like that that makes
you feel, puts you in a positionof vulnerability that you may
want to take it out of? This show is there.
I feel like what you said is totally sensible.
I would want to work with someone who was tuned into this
(40:35):
stuff and emotionally not a maniac.
And I've worked with plenty of CE OS who are straight up
maniacs and I would not take another job if I, if I caught a
whiff of that. At this point, I'm like, you
know what? I don't want to do this and I
don't think we're going to get along if I do this.
And so you telling me this makesme trust you more.
I'm like, OK, Julia, someone that I would follow into this
(40:55):
with because I know that the thematters of the heart that are so
important that people always neglect and say are for big
stupid softies are not appropriate for a leader.
That's like, we need someone who's like really good at making
hard decisions and that's not someone who's soft.
I actually do not think that's true at all.
It's a bad meme. I would like to see that meme
(41:15):
replaced with something better than it, but you feel like even
if you know it's true, it's hardfor you to say that out loud in
a business context. Yeah, and I totally agree.
I'm like there, there's to me, there's nothing like maybe
there's a softness and an intentionality in part of it,
but there's not a, we're not going to make hard decisions and
(41:39):
we're not going to make the tough, you know, tough calls or
have those tough conversations. Like to me, there's like, how do
you lead in a place where you'rejust as, if not more effective
from like a business outcomes perspective, You're not losing
to me again, the North Star is like, it has to be a big
impactful, profitable business to matter on an impact scale.
So like there's no fighting, there's no conflict of interest
(42:01):
there. Like we make money when we put
tons underground, which is the impact that we want to have.
So like it's Co linear in the, you know, framework of TPG.
And so like I'm I'm not in conflict there.
And that's one of the things I love most about vaulted is like
there is that really deep alignment.
But I, yeah, I think, you know, there's a keeping, keeping a
(42:25):
focus on being a really effective business leader that
is building a big, profitable, successful company.
Could you actually do that just energetically from that
different place? I have this like talking about
instinct. I have this like instinct that
this is where we're headed. My hope is that this is where
we're headed as a society, that maybe we did decades and decades
(42:47):
of this old leadership style that caused a lot of people a
lot of pain. And it was very profit over
everything. And it was profit maximizing,
you know, which of course is kind of in some ways the way our
capital system works. And I'm wondering if like
there's like a new wave of leadership coming that I would
be excited to be a part of that thinks about it differently.
(43:11):
And that's like kind of like when I think about like the
world in 20-30 years, like maybemaybe we're headed in a really
cool direction from that standpoint.
What is happening at Vaulted now?
What's next for y'all? And then we will find ourselves
at the conclusion of this episode that went in a bunch of
unexpected ways, I think, for both of us.
(43:34):
Sure did. I loved it.
I absolutely loved it. But it was definitely not what I
was thought we were going to talk about.
So that's OK. What is Walter doing?
I mean, so you know, as I, as I kind of mentioned before and as
you know faulted at the core of it, we're really a, a waste
management company, right. We take organic waste that today
(43:57):
goes to landfills, incinerators or land app and is really just
being disposed of and we take that and we find a better home
for it. We put it really deep
underground where it's permanently stored and you know
that's better for climate because we're locking away all
that carbon and it's also healthier for sort of local
environments. And so we've been doing that as
I mentioned in both Great Plainsand our Hutchinson, KS site as
(44:19):
well as with our partner Vantec and Los Angeles.
So big piece of what we've done the last couple of years is
really showing that we can do carb removal at scale from those
operational facilities, right? So we've done, we've done you
know, over 25,000 tons of durable carbon removal to date.
We're on track to do, I hope. Fingers crossed.
(44:41):
On track to do you know, something like 50,000 tons this
year alone? No, just like I'm really here.
I'm I'm here for scale. You know, it's like if it's big.
Like non biochar numbers? Really good.
Yeah. If it's not here for scale, like
it's it to me, it really mattersthat we can show it.
And and that's also one of the the great gifts of being a
(45:01):
spinoff. You know, we're only four years.
Technically, we're only 2 1/2 years old.
I've been working on Vaulted forfour years because the spinoff
took some time, as you can imagine, to get right.
But you know, one of the magicalthings is that we spun off with
a mature technology and these two sites that we were able to
kind of press play on really quickly.
So we kind of my Co founder did 15 years of tech development so
we could get to the place where we could sort of press play and
(45:23):
and get to that scale. So, you know, we're really
focused on like just continuing to make it more and more
efficient. We're finding new ways to get
more efficient even at our current sites and ramp up trucks
and and figuring out how to, youknow, lower emissions with every
ton. So there's like more sort of
processing there in terms of yeah, sort of efficiency at
(45:45):
those operating sites. And then what we did the last
couple of years was really as you know, sort of build that
carbon removal reputation and brand and had some good success
in, in selling to some of the bigger buyers.
So with, you know, Frontier, we signed with them like 115,000
(46:07):
tons that takes us I think it was 2024 to 2028 ish.
And that was sort of a really good chunk of our first, you
know, deliveries out of our operating sites.
We then had sort of a landmark deal with Microsoft of nearly 5
million tons, which we signed last year.
That really gets us, you know, nearly to 2040.
And so that's just like this magical kind of, like I said
(46:31):
before, revolutionary. I really believe that, you know,
kind of contract where we can then say, OK, we know we have
demand to really do this at scale.
We know we have a technology that works.
Let's go build those sites like let's go get more sites online
so we can really do this, you know, a megaton by 20-30.
That's the North star of the company.
And so most of the company is focused on new site development,
(46:54):
right? Most of the company is going and
finding OK, you know, across theUS and and North America.
And then you know, the world oneday where those good sites of
good, good geology ways where wecan actually solve that problem,
right? Where there's ideally, I mean,
there ideally there's a local problem to be solved, right?
Maybe there's a PFAS issue, you know, PFAS like forever
(47:16):
chemical. Maybe there's a nutrient runoff
issue, maybe there's an odor issue or a methane issue, right?
Where can we go in and actually say there is a local
environmental contamination issue because of waste that's
being disposed of. We can come in and be that
partner that's not only like better, you know, better waste
management and sort of disposal solution, but also we can kind
(47:37):
of solve that local, you know, maybe environmental
contamination issue or communityhealth issue.
So we can come in and really saylike, there's a reason why we're
here. We're not just here to fight
climate change broadly. We're here to help you not smell
that on the way to work or not have PFAS in your drinking
water, right? Like, and that also really
helps, of course, to to get the trust and engagement with the
communities. And then of course, we always
(47:58):
we, you know, work under class 5permits with EPA.
So then of course we're always finding where's their permit,
where's their waste and where's their geology?
And so most of the team time nowis like, OK, let's go look at,
you know, kind of those sites and work with our waste partners
to go find those really good Co located sites.
So we like to be like right at the paper mill or right at the
wastewater treatment facility orright at the landfill.
(48:19):
So we're not trucking. And it's like the most
efficient, cost effective waste management and carbon removal
that we can be. What's it like having a company
spin out of an existing company within carbon removal?
Does that work? Yeah, it's its own thing.
It's its own thing. I've actually now started like a
(48:40):
spin off founder support group where there's like only founder
done spin offs. I don't.
Know how many? How many others are even are
there? Not just in car mobile like in
general and most climate tech founders, but it's, it's, it's a
really different interesting journey.
So I, I could talk about this for a long time, but yeah, it's
(49:02):
pretty different. Like you get this amazing, you
know, head start in a lot of ways, you know, depending on
what you're spinning off, if it's a technology or a team or a
plant or, you know, whatever it might be.
And then you know it, there's also a lot of dynamics that come
with that, right? You've got then, you know, a
company that you spun out of that has their own perspective
(49:24):
and thoughts and feelings and needs from all sorts of angles.
And I think you have to be really clear about why you need
to spin off like, what is what, what can you do as a separate
organization that they couldn't do or didn't want to do or that
you could do better at. And so you've got to get like
really clear really early. So I think it's interesting.
(49:46):
It forces a lot of good intellectual rigor around what
you're trying to build, why you're trying to build it.
What can you bring that other people can't bring?
You know, what's your theory of change?
Like all of that was forced pretty early because I couldn't
just be like, OK, we're going tolike get going and just start
doing stuff, right. You had to do a year and a half
of picture painting and analysisto get the go ahead to spin off,
(50:09):
right? So it's an interesting,
interesting journey, you know, from that perspective, I think
it forced a lot of honestly really good discussion and align
a lot of like alignment with, you know, the existing company.
And then you also have to get capital that understands that
journey. And I, I will say lower carbon
was our letter C drowned and they were fantastic partners to
(50:32):
like be a part of that journey with us to help us understand,
like, you know, how do you valueintellectual property and how do
you think about the value of this intangible thing within the
company and then outside of the company and sort of be a a
capital partner as we like unlock that spin off.
So it's very interesting. There's a lot of dynamics, as
(50:52):
you can imagine, with multiple stakeholders.
But if you can get it to work, which is a big, you know, I
think one of the things I learned was I stepped back at
some point. I was like, Oh, you actually
don't see that many venture backed spin offs.
And that's for I was like, I wastrying to find, I was trying to
find this support group that I started eventually.
(51:14):
And I was like, oh, it doesn't. I can't find it because there's,
there's not that many. And that should have told me
something, how hard it was, but I didn't know.
So I, I went ahead and we figured out a way at the end.
And I think we're all glad we did.
I love doing shows on alternative means of founding,
(51:34):
funding and exiting and this hasnot been one of them.
Is there a lot of opportunity todo this spin out model or is it
just pure luck that you're here?It sounds like probably is
closer to that than anything, but are there opportunities that
people were looking in the rightplaces?
They might be able to find dealslike yours and duplicate them.
(51:56):
Maybe I, I think, I think you definitely need, you definitely
need some luck and you need, I think at the end of the day, you
need a company. If you're spinning out of a
company, you need a company thatcan see and appreciate the
vision of what you're trying to build and why you need to spend
(52:20):
out, right? Because like the status quo is
that company owns 100% of the thing.
And I think a natural starting place is like, why wouldn't we
just do it? We could build another business
harm or we could, you know, havea subsidiary, you know, like why
why would I go give up 100% ownership to, you know, have
(52:42):
this be its own, you know, its own little Organism that then I
don't fully control and I don't own 100% of it.
If you're if it is going to be this really big, magical,
valuable thing, you know, why would I take that trade off?
And so you have to be like, you have to find, I think that a
team on that company side that understands sort of the value
you can create when you're, whenyou spun off and make that
(53:05):
really clear. And, and frankly, like a lot of
leadership teams, 1, you know, Ithink they got to see it, which
is hard and take some, some vision and some trust.
And then they really have to trust you that you were going to
be able to do it and you're not going to go spin it off and then
fail in two years. And hey, they could have, you
know, they could have kept it. So I think there's some trust
(53:26):
building that's really importantin that journey.
Thanks for being on, Julia. Really appreciated having you,
and thanks for letting me ask you some frankly bizarre
questions. I'm glad we got to.
Do this. Thanks Ross.
I loved it. I had a great time and it was
really interesting and thought provoking.
So thank you for asking those questions.
(53:47):
I don't. I honestly don't get asked those
every day, so it's pretty cool.
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