September 6, 2026 • 35 mins
Michael-Shawn Dugar of The Athletic joins us to talk about his new book, "12 As One: Mike Macdonald, the Seattle Seahawks, and the Making of a Super Bowl Champion." Mike talks about how writing a book gave him a different kind of avenue to report some behind the scenes information compared to daily beat coverage. He explains how the "12 As One" mantra runs through the whole roster, and the throughline of selflessness he found from Ernest Jones's story to the other vets who helped carry the message. We talk about Macdonald's approach worked in Seattle when a similar first-time-coach jump didn't for Jerod Mayo in New England, and the "high-powered" standard Julian Love set for the defense.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brandan (00:09):
Welcome to the Sea Hawkers Podcast.
I'm your host, Brandan Schulze,and today I am joined by an author
and a Seahawks podcaster, orformer Seahawks po- podcaster.
we've got Mike Dugar,Michael-Shawn Dugar of The Athletic.
And, you've got a new bookout, Mike, 12 Is 1, recapping
(00:31):
the Seahawks Super Bowl season.
And, you, you've got someother stuff going on too, man.
how, how you been doing?
Dugar (00:38):
Been doing good.
First off, thank you for having me.
s- secondly, yeah,just I, I've been busy.
It may not look like it, 'cause I haven't…
I don't think I've had abyline in, a, a little bit.
But, I've, I've been nonstopworking, on, like, deeper dive
feature stuff, for The Athletic.
like, the way I've beenexplaining it to people is before I
(00:59):
was on more of a newspaper cadence.
You know, newspapers publish every day.
Now I'm more on, like, a magazine cadence.
You know, monthly.
Ma- Could even be quarterly, dependson access, what the story is.
Is it s- is it a sensitive story?
Is it a fun story?
so that's, like,the new, the new world.
which I know Seahawk fans weren'tsuper happy to see me bounce and, and
(01:19):
and end the Seahawks Man to Man podcastthat we had been doing for nine years.
But, it was definitely, thatwas my ninth year covering the team.
I've got two books out about the team.
They, they won the Super Bowl.
you know, if they, and if they win itagain I'll be around, but you know, it
it was time for the, for the next thing.
And I'm excited.
One of my, one of the stories I'mworking on is something that will
(01:41):
be of interest to Seahawk fans.
I, I, I, I will say that.
So that, that's cool.
Hopefully that comes togetherhere in a couple weeks.
Brandan (01:46):
Nice.
Well, one thing is clear, Mike, isw- when it comes to your writing
you're an incredibly talented writer.
And so I feel like as Seahawks fanswhen we, when we find someone who's
on the Seahawks beat and, andyou recognize that writing, you, you
think, "Okay, well, they're, they'llgo on to something big eventually."
And, and you went on to somethingbig with this book be- well
it's, and it's not your firstbook, but, holy smokes, man.
(02:07):
it's a incredible book.
I, I, I'm a couple chapters inand already, like, I'm hooked
because, well, I'm a Seahawks fan.
And it, it's taking a look atthe Seahawks Super Bowl season.
And we're, we're starting to get,we get a little bit behind the scenes
with the Hard Knocks episodes thatcome out recently, but, I mean
(02:27):
this takes you in depth that you haveall of the access that you had as a
reporter, this past season, andyou kind of, you get into a lot
of really what makes this team unique.
And like I said, we get some of that fromthe Hard Knocks, but, you, you have so
much more in-depth as to, what you sawthroughout the entire season last year.
Dugar (02:51):
Yeah, one of the things about being a beat writer for so long, is
you just see so much, and it's, it's notalways stuff you can report, at least
not traditionally in, you know,publications that have, like, some high
journalistic standards for sourcing andwhat's allowed and what you gotta verify.
But in a book you can put whatever.
Not to say I'm in there lying aboutpeople, but, you know, that you just have
a little bit more leeway to talk aboutan interaction in an elevator, you know?
(03:14):
Or in the lobby of somewhere, or at theairport, or in, in a hallway, or whatever.
Stuff that wasn't formally, "Hey,my microphone's in your face.
Talk."
Because when you can pieceall that together though, the
picture is fuller, you know?
And I think Hard Knocks does a good jobof getting to that even though they are…
There's cameras and microphones.
They're catching so muchof stuff that's not formal.
It's two players talking on the sideline.
(03:36):
It's, it's a coach just having a quickchat with a player in, in a meeting
room or Whatever it is, or a fight,like conflict resolution like we saw
with Derick Hall and Brady Russell, andI think that getting to piece all that
together as a beat writer using notonly from this season, 2024 season as
well, you know, comparing that withall the research I did on the Legion of
Boom years to kind of see like what theingredients of a championship season
(03:59):
you know, look like even though Iwasn't there in person for it in 2013.
I, I think that kind of informs, youknow, why I value like depth so much.
You know, we're all just thesum of our life story, you know
at whatever point you enter it.
So whether you're age 24 likeJackson Smith-Njigba, or you're
30, whatever, like Jarran Reed, or,you know, you're nearing 40 like
(04:19):
Mike Macdonald, our past experiencesinformed our present and can tell us
a lot about how our future will look.
And once you go back a little bitbefore you get forward, it just brings
to life so many of the moments thatyou saw, you know, on, on the field.
I, I think I said this when I didmy first book, but my second book
is kind of inspired the same way.
I love the way The LastDance was formatted.
(04:40):
Mm.
It's about one season-
Brandan (04:42):
Mm-hmm
Dugar (04:42):
in theory, basically about 1998, but you get so much of this context
about Scottie's upbringing and evenSteve Kerr and then Phil and obviously
Michael, that when you do see the bigmoments, like for instance Steve Kerr
hitting the big shot, in, in the,in the finals, you know, you, you got
so much stuff about Steve and his, hisdad, getting killed and everything.
So by the time you, he hits theshot, you're like, "Oh my God," like
(05:05):
to do saxoph- the horns are going.
It's slow.
You're like, "Oh, wow.
I feel like I was right there withSteve," and I feel the, the gravity
of the shot going in more so thanjust, "Oh, I watched the finals.
I remember him hitting that shot."
So that's wh- that's kind ofbeen my goal when I get the
chance to do something long-form.
It's like, all right, you knowJackson Smith-Njigba makes that catch.
You know Ernest Jones makes that tackle.
(05:25):
You know Sam makes that throw.
But what can I add to that?
So by the time you get to that pointin the, the game or whatever, you're
like, "Oh, damn, that throw meant alot more," or I, I feel it a lot more.
So that's, that's always been my goal.
I know you said you're only a few chaptersin, but I'm hoping that by the time
you and everyone else gets to the, theend of it, that they kind of feel the
same way I felt, watching that doc.
Brandan (05:45):
Well, one of the guys I do get that sense with of, just from what
I know so far and, and what I've readso far is Ernest Jones because- Yeah
you know, he lost his dad early onin the season, and I, I know you have
quite a few conversations with himthat they're a part of that, too.
And so him dedicating the season tohis dad who died of cancer early on and
(06:06):
then, you know, for him to go throughand then win that Super Bowl, like I
I have to imagine a guy like that, thatit, it adds that kind of impact to it.
Dugar (06:15):
Yeah, you know, you just see it, and I think I was so
glad, you know, 'cause the team…
The reason why I'm glad Hard Knocksdid what it did with the team is
'cause the, the team can controlso much of what they release.
One of probably my favorite pieceof content they've ever put out
is when Ernest Jones got the gameball after the Vikings game that
they won, like, 26 to nothing.
And you could see why guyslove Ernest, you know, so much.
(06:36):
He just, like, stopped everything andwas like, he took what usually is, like
a rah-rah moment into being like, "Oh,man, I was down bad, and I had to get
right with God and get right with y'alland do this for, you know, for y'all."
To, you know, a- and I just,he's a servant in that way.
Reminds me of DougBaldwin in a lot of ways.
And so getting to talk to Ernestand tell his story, it just brings
(06:57):
I think, the whole defense tolife, not just his own story.
Because you can see it even inHard Knocks as well, like, Ernest
is their, he's their heartbeat.
You know?
He, he riles them up orbring, calms them back down.
Whatever is needed, he's, he setsthe temperature, in that way.
So yeah, e- every convo I had withErnest, was meaningful for the book.
I think that's probably the person,without, like, going back and
(07:18):
fact-checking, I'm pretty sure that'sthe person I probably quote the most or
whose notes I went back and viewed themost, is, like, all my convos with Ernest.
I couldn't wait to talk to him, youknow, and when I got let into the locker
room after they won the Super Bowl.
He was just, he's just great, you know?
He really just embodies what it, what acurrent Seahawk looks like, I would say
more than Spoon, more than L- LeonardWilliams, more than Jarran Reed even.
(07:41):
It's just like, nah, ErnestJones, his story tells you the
story of the 2025 Seahawks.
Brandan (07:46):
Oh, there we go.
Big fan of Ernest Jones, so I,I l- I look forward to that.
The book is 12 as One (07:50):
Mike Macdonald, the Seattle Seahawks, and the
Making of a Super Bowl Champion.
And, and this idea, Mike, of 12 is 1, it, it frames the entire season
around a theme, and that's connectivity.
And that, that title, it comes fromCoach Mike's, that 12 is 1 mantra.
what did you see a- as far as whatthat phrase actually means, and how did
(08:15):
it translate from a slogan to the wayjust players are treated there every day?
Dugar (08:21):
Yeah, I think there's just a level of selflessness, that defined
the way the team went about its business.
Because football, it's very easy toget caught up in your own individual
agenda, you know, as an NFL player.
You know, whether you're on thepractice squad, you're at the bottom
of the roster, you're one of thesuperstars, like, everyone kinda feels
like they have something to prove.
You know, whether you're trying toprove that you are great or that you
(08:42):
prove that you belong in the league,you prove that you belong on the 53-man
roster, you prove that you can be anNFL receiver, whatever it is, you know?
And, I think talking to guys at thebottom of the roster and learning more
about, like, the ready squad thing wasreally cool, because I love talking
to those guys 'cause it's a reminderthat to even get to the league and be
a guy on the practice squad, you wereprobably that dude your whole life.
(09:05):
You probably killed Pop Warner.
You were probably- Yeah… afour-star recruit or whatever.
You probably are, are in the recordbooks at your college, you know?
And then you get to the NFL andit's like, "Wow, I'm not even
good enough to get on the field."
You know?
It's like how do you deal with that?
You know?
Right.
And how do the coaches deal with makingsure that you never feel like you're
not good enough to get on the field?
You just, you, they make you feellike, no, you're gonna get on the
(09:25):
field, and when you do, we're gonnaempower you to be the best version
of you that got you to the NFL.
and so I think that selflessness Thatthey got everyone to buy into, from the
top of the roster in Jackson Spoon to guyslike Drake Thomas, to believe, like, "No
you're all part of this thing equally.
All of you.
Even the, the, the 17 guys who are,quote-unquote, practice squad and
(09:46):
can't play, you are just as much apart of this as a Boye Mafe, as a
Leonard Williams, as a Charles Cross.
No matter if you're making $70million or $700,000, you are one.
We are, we are one."
And it sounds great.
That's very Pop Warner speechy, youknow, everyone gets, you know, lemon
lemon slices and Capri Suns afterwe win, or after we lose, you know
(10:08):
on, on a Saturday when we're kids.
But to get adults to buy into that,despite all the money that guys make
and the marketing opportunities and thefamilies that they're trying to feed
and the hometowns they're trying tomake proud, I think that's really tough.
And the way Mike Macdonald got guysto buy into that, guys who were in a
contract year, guys who were comingoff injury, you know, there's
so many different points in people'slives that you're trying to converge
(10:29):
to all just be focused on the mission.
I thought that was really howthey got this done, and you saw
it the way their depth showed up,particularly early in the year.
There were games where Darian Kendrickwas the best player on the field
and then the next game, it may beD'Anthony Bell making the big plays, and
then Tory Horton might make the bigplays, and then Brandon Peely might get
a, a, a big play, or Elijah Arroyo or CodyWhite, like all these guy- Drake Thomas
(10:51):
might lead them in TFLs one, one game.
And it's, it's not easy to get allthose guys to buy into the, that
any given game it can be them, andthen get the guys at the top of
the roster to also buy into that.
Right.
For Leonard Williams to be like, "Idon't need 15 sacks to prove myself.
If I got six and everybody else gotat least one or two or whatever and
we're winning, I'm okay with that."
(11:12):
You know?
That's, I've been around this team, the Seahawks a long, long enough to
know that they've, not every iterationof the team has operated that way.
There have been guys who arelike, "Yo, I'm trying to get mine.
If the team wins, that'sgreat too, but like, you know
football hurts, CTE is real.
I got a family to feed.
I need these numbers."
You know?
Yeah.
And, and that's, that's natural too.
That's human instinct as well.
(11:32):
I understand that too.
But to get guys to put that tothe side, whether you're Ken
Walker, who's, you know, was in acontract year, or you're Jareaux
knowing you're up for an extension.
Same thing with Spoon and some other guys.
Like, that was really powerful.
It's hard.
it's hard to do that year to year,which I think that scene in Hard Knocks
where Sherm goes to Mike Macdonald andhe's like, "Yo, how did you do that?"
"Because I watched usnot be able to do that.
(11:54):
How did you get it done?"
And Mike didn't have a great answer,but the fact that he did do it is what
I was trying to capture in the book.
Brandan (12:01):
Well, yeah, and, I mean, you have that unique perspective of
being there for the, the Pete Carrollera and then watching the transition.
The thing for Mike is he doesn'tnecessarily know how it's done.
I mean, he- Right… I supposehe could talk to John Schneider
who's been there the whole time.
But, like, he's trying to do ithis way as the head coach, and
(12:21):
really, a relatively, well,a brand new head coach, right?
So, what are some of thosethings that you saw then and in
that transition that made that work?
Dugar (12:33):
Yeah, I think the way Mike is willing to acknowledge
what he does not know is important.
As much as, like, being theguy, you want all the answers.
You want your players to ask you,"Hey, coach, what do we do if they
motion this and that, and thenthis is now the passing strength.
What do we do?"
You know?
Or like, "Hey, we gotta goto Australia for a game.
How are we gonna handle that?
We gotta do whatever.
(12:53):
We're about to play inthe Super Bowl, coach.
What do we do?"
You wanna make sure youhave all the answers.
Mike Macdonald's very comfortable saying,"Hey, I may not have that answer."
It's like that scene in The Pursuit ofHappyness when they ask him a question
and Will Smith in the interview is like,"I'm gonna tell you I don't know, but
I'm also gonna find the answer for you."
You know?
And, and that sincerity there, I think,that matters to the players, 'cause you
might be like, "You know what, Spoon?
(13:14):
I don't know if they, what happens ifthey motion the trips against this on this
down and distance from this, you know?
But I'll figure it.
Let me get back to you on Thursday."
You know what I mean?
Or, "You know, I don't know,how that circumstance should go.
I don't know what the head coachwould do in this situation.
Let me consult Leslie Frazier."
You know, I think hiring Leslie Frazierin, at all was a sign of humility.
And then the last partis Mike didn't play.
He played high school ball.
(13:36):
He didn't play college ball at Georgia.
He just, he was a decent, like,high school linebacker, I think.
And so you gotta humble yourselfa little bit if you're gonna be
telling Devon Witherspoon whatto do and how to play football.
You do.
You just, 'cause you, you're coming froma different place than a Mike Vrabel would
be, you know, or some of these guys who,who did play and then played really well.
and so because he's coming into itwith that space, but not acting like
(13:58):
he's a fraud, but no, I'm, I'm in thisquest for knowledge just like you guys.
I'm in this quest to make you guys better.
I think the way he came at thatreally got him to establish his
own standard independent of whatPete Carroll had already set.
you know, I rememberhe told me a story once.
He was like, he was trying to tell TerrellSuggs how to do something, and like, in
his mind, he was like, "Damn, I'm reallytelling Terrell Suggs how to do this
(14:21):
assignment," or whatever it was, andhe had to remind himself, "No, no, no.
I put in the work to be able toTerrell, to tell Terrell Suggs that.
And also, even though Terrell Suggs, asgreat as he is, he wants to be coached
so I gotta have the answers for him."
And Mike figured that out in Baltimore,and he really put it in application
when he, when he got to Seattle,because players recognized that
(14:42):
and wanted to be coached by him.
it didn't matter that he wasreplacing someone who, in Pete Carroll
who not only had success, but had areally healthy culture for a long time.
I mean, we see the juxtaposition here.
I think it's really great that theybeat the Patriots, you know, for
like, the story purpose in that JerodMayo and Mike Macdonald were hired
in the same cycle to replace Hall ofFame coaches who had an established
(15:05):
culture and established way of winningin Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll.
And Jerod, I b- and they werethe two youngest coaches in that
cycle, as w- two youngest coachesin the league when they got hired.
Jerod flamed out immediately,and, and understandably so.
It's hard to replace Bill Belichick.
It's also hard to replace Pete, andI think the degree of difficulty is
really heightened in their two storiesand their two pasts, and the way
(15:26):
Mike did it was just by just be you.
You know, be you, put the workin, and know that you've earned
the right to be you, and thenthe players will, will follow.
So I think there's a ton of examples.
I put a bunch in the book, but Ithink that overarching theme of just
like Mike put the work in, tohave the right to tell these guys how
to the, the culture's gonna be, howthey're gonna handle these situations.
And knowing that he doesn't have all theanswers right away, I think that there
(15:49):
was a lot of power in that, not only fromhis players, but also the coaches who were
tasked with also implementing the culture.
Brandan (15:56):
Yeah.
It, it's just, it, it is wild tothink, like, especially for a guy like
well, even Coach Pete, you know.
Pete Carroll had two different stints as ahead coach before he finally, y- before he
worked it out- Mm… in how he wanted to, organize a team and build a culture.
And, and even Bill Belichick, youknow, he wasn't successful as a
(16:16):
head coach the first time whenhe was hired on with the Browns.
And so, yeah, to, to
take all, just considering all that,for him to be able to come in and be
able to make that transition so smoothlythat, you know, he ends up winning a
Super Bowl in his sophomore season,it, it's, it's wild, Mike.
Dugar (16:37):
Yeah, and I think- While I don't think age is that much of a
barrier in terms of connecting withplayers, you know, I think the
scene, with Nick Emmanwori in HardKnocks was really powerful when they
both kind of come to the conclusionlike, "Oh wow, you keep receipts from
people say things about you too, Coach?
I didn't know that.
I do too.
Let's go kill people together," you know?
(16:57):
but Pete also was able to relateto the players, you know, despite
being the oldest coach in the league.
I do think another component for Mikethat worked in his favor was, and I
and I got Ernest Jones and some othersto speak to this around Super Bowl
time, is his, h- where he was in life.
You know, Mike Macdonald I believeis 39, now, and that's not too
much older than some of these guys.
But beyond the age part, likeMike's son Jack was born I think
(17:20):
in December of his first season.
Stephanie's pregnant again.
I don't know if they announced thegender, but like the fact that he's
changing diapers and stuff just the sameway a lot of these guys on the team are.
Like I'm sure you follow a lot of theplayers and stuff on social media.
Half the damn team had a babyor got married- Uh-huh… you
know, this, this off season.
It was, it was nuts.
It was very clear what everyone wasdoing, in the off season or at least
(17:43):
planning to do in terms of these weddings.
So with the fact that Mike's only beenmarried for to Steph for a few years
and then, you know, his son Jack isso small, he's going through a lot of
that same stuff too, like balancing theresponsibilities of being a father, the
joy of seeing the little one on the fieldafter you win a game or lose a game or
whatever it is, and the fact that they cankind of bond in that away from football.
(18:06):
I do, I do know that the playerssaw something in that as well.
It's not that they saw him necessarily asequals, like you're still the authority
figure in the building, but like ErnestJones talked about that a- as well.
It's like, yeah, my son,Ernest V is only a few months
older than Jack, you know?
Like I'm, he's been married to hiswife Tyra for only a little bit more
time, little bit less time than Mike'sbeen married to Steph, you know?
(18:28):
And they can just talk about that.
Oh your son just started walking in?
How many teeth your kid got?
Does your kid watch this on YouTube?
Blah, blah, blah.
Does your kid sleep?
Your, oh your kid threw upon you this morning too?
That's cra- You know?
Like that stuff, it all matters andit helps you build that connectivity.
It's just one of the manyways you can do that.
I do think that contributed maybe tothe way he connected with guys too.
That's a little different than, than Pete.
(18:48):
You know, Pete got grandkidsthat are in high school right now
I'm pretty sure, whereas, yeah,Mike was a little different.
It's a small thing, but when you're tryingto build, like see that we're all one-
Brandan (18:57):
Yeah
… Dugar (18:57):
being at the same point in life as some of these guys, it
it, it contributes to that as well.
Brandan (19:01):
Yeah.
And, and you talk about how connectivityis important, but I, I have to imagine
like on other teams, like yeah, they're,they're all dads and but you, you hear
guys like Cooper Kupp talk about theteam being connected in a way that's
different than anywhere that he's been.
And, you know, he was on a SuperBowl winning team with the Rams.
And so for him to come from theRams, come to Seattle, and see that
(19:24):
connectivity piece, but see it that,that it's different than anywhere that
he's been before, whether it's, youknow, Eastern Washington or, or
LA, how- How did that, h-hit himand how did you approach that with him?
Dugar (19:43):
yeah, that's a, that's a good question.
oh, we're chopping up a little bit.
You still got me?
Brandan (19:47):
I gotcha.
Dugar (19:48):
Yep.
Okay, sorry.
that's a great question.
I'm glad you brought that up.
And I think the v- I talked to theveterans last year about that quite a bit
'cause I was fascinated by the, the peoplewho weren't as insulated, you know, like
D Law, who had been somewhere for a while.
Jarran Reed, who left andcame back, had been in Green
Bay, had been in Kansas City.
Leonard Williams, who had beenon the two New York teams.
Julian Love, who had been in New York.
(20:09):
And what they, what they spoketo in the difference is, one, the
team was really good, you know?
Julian and Leo were very candidabout the fact that like, "Yeah, we made
the playoffs in 2022" like, we probablyshouldn't have, with the Giants, you know?
And they, they weren't that good.
And they won a game in theplayoffs a- as well before getting
destroyed by the, the Eagles.
But what those veterans spoke togenerally was the selflessness, you know?
(20:32):
I remember talking to D Lawabout how D Hall and Boye Mafe
approached like their sack totals.
I think those guys might've combinedfor, what, three or four sacks last
year, D Hall and, and Boye Mafe.
But they, what, signed contractsthat combined are for nearly $100
million, Right… this off season.
And there was no guaranteethat they were gonna do that.
But D Law saw, just like I've seen,guys care about them sack numbers, who
(20:52):
are like, "Damn this gap integrity.
I need to get to the quarterback, yo.
I'm trying to get paid."
And D Hall and Boye legitimately didnot operate that way, and I saw it, and
I'm glad that D Law spoke to it too.
Being like, "Yo, those guys reallyare focused on our mission."
And I think that's very importantthat the veterans could speak to
that, but also give these guys anexample of how to be selfless as well.
(21:13):
And I think that's where I'mglad you brought up Cooper Kupp.
'Cause Cooper Kupp was just like, "Guys."
I think that really stood outwhen they played the Rams.
Cooper Kupp went out of his way to belike, "This is, this is not about me."
Right.
You know what I'm saying?
Like I, he, he said, I, I quotedthis in the book too, "It would
be a disservice to me, or to myteammates, to go out there and act
like my story is any more importantthan anybody else's story on Sunday.
(21:37):
This story, this story is about theSeahawks going to beat the Rams."
I believe he was talking about thisbefore the NFC championship game.
"This story is not Cooper Kupp gettingrevenge against the team that cut him.
No, I'm 1 of 53 guys whohas a story, you know?
And they all matter to the mission."
And I, and not only did he saythat, he lived that every day.
And so whether it was a D Law or aLeonard Williams chasing down Jayden
(22:00):
Daniels on fourth and a mile, in theCommander's game being like, "Hey guys
I'm in year whatever the hell, and I'msprinting my ass off on fourth down.
That's the standard here."
Or Cooper Kupp like, "Yo, I don'tcare how many catches I had.
Obviously I want the ball, but I'mhere to do my job to the best of my
ability, 'cause that's the mission.
That's the standard here."
Those guys set the tone, and I thinkthe guys followed them below them.
(22:21):
Like if Cooper Kupp's not complainingabout his targets, who is Derek
Young to complain about his?
You know what I mean?
Sure.
And, and not to say that Derekwas complaining, but like if D
if D Law's bought in, who are you,Derick Hall, to not be bought in?
You know what I mean?
If you're, if you see Leo runningdown because that's the
standard to go chase the ball.
If you're Brandon Peely, well,get your ass, go chase the ball.
(22:44):
That's, or you're ByronMurphy, go chase the ball.
That's the standard.
And the veterans who have been around,buying into that, letting everybody
know it was different, setting anexample, and then highlighting the
guys who were following the example,I thought was also a big part when I
was revisiting the season as, as well.
'Cause you need that.
I know every team in the off-season'slike, "Let's get younger, let's
get cheaper, let's get faster."
(23:04):
That's great.
You need vets.
Vets set the tone.
They really set the tone for the whole,the whole thing, because these young
bucks don't know what they don't know.
They're following the vets whoteach them how to take care of their
bodies, how to conduct themselves inthe media, how to behave on, in big
moments, how to behave on a day-to-day.
and so I think the, the factthat they had these guys who had been
(23:24):
around, who had been on bad teamsand been on good teams, enforcing the
culture, oh, that was, that was justas important as drafting Grey Zabel.
That was just as important asdrafting Nick Emmanwori and, and doing
other, some of the, and signing Sam,some of these other, these great
moves that they made Cooper Kupp'spresence there was just as important.
Jarran Reed's presencewas just as important.
(23:46):
The D Law signing, for his presencealone, was just as important.
See, I'm glad you broughtup those veterans.
Brandan (23:51):
Yeah.
Well, another one of thoseveterans is Julian Love, and he
wrote the forward to the book.
Yeah.
And he told, he told thestor- Shout out Julian.
He told a story there that I thinkSeahawks fans would get a kick of.
Had, had Julian ever written,anything, before doing the forward?
I
Dugar (24:06):
I, I don't know.
I, I knew that I was stereotyping alittle bit through his, his alma mater.
I was like, "Okay, the Notre Dameguy can probably write," you know?
So I, I was like, "Letme just start there."
Uh-huh… and then also justmy conversations with Julian, his
perspective is so good, and heunderstands how the power of examples.
So, like, he'll tell me something.
(24:26):
for instance, he, he's the firstperson to reveal to me that they
have the saying, "High-powered [bleep]."
He told me that in the off-season,and I was like, "Okay, what is that?"
And I talk about our conversation ofhim explaining to me what is that
and he gives me all these examples.
I throw some back at him, and,like, he understands the power of an
example explaining the, the concept.
Mm.
Whether it's 12 is 1, chasingedges, he always finds an
(24:49):
example to help illustrate that.
So I was like, "Okay,how will he illustrate?
What would the example heuse for the, for the book?"
I forget what the prompt I gave himwas, but I, he, he just nailed it.
He, he just really capturedit, and I'll tell you this too.
I was so…
I was beating myself up 'cause I gotto the end of the book, I'm writing
it, and I'm like, "Damn, I don't haveenough about shadow boxing in here."
(25:10):
Like, it was such a big thing.
I was like, "Where do I put it?"
You know?
Like, "How do I squeeze that in?"
And then I got Julian's forwardafter I finished everything
else, and, lo and behold, youknow, he mentions shadow boxing.
I'm like, "Oh, see?
I, I knew I could trust Julian."
Now it's in the front of the book.
'Cause otherwise, there wasn'tthat many mentions of shadow boxing
till the end, and I was like,"That just doesn't feel right."
(25:30):
But I only had nine weeks to do the book.
There's only so much rearrangingyou do, you know- Right… right
before the deadline.
So I was like, "I hope…"
You know, and then Julian sentthat in, and I was like, "Oh, yeah
my guy Julian Love," you know?
Yeah.
And, and he killed it.
Not just 'cause he mentioned shadowboxing, but as, as you read, like
he really captured the essence ofthe team from a player's perspective
and I, I really appreciated that.
Brandan (25:50):
Okay, I've heard some of these sayings, like 12 is 1.
I haven't heard high-powered [bleep].
What's that about?
Dugar (25:55):
yeah, I dedicated I think, the Spoon chapter from
week 12, I wanna say, to that.
But really it's just, it's themoments that make a difference
that aren't always quantifiable.
And, two that came to mind onceJulian said it to me and explained
it, that I was, "Okay, to make sureI understand, would that be like how
(26:16):
Spoon gave the lead block to DerickHall on the scoop and score against
the Falcons in the 2024 season?"
He was like, "Exactly."
There's nothing that would everquantify that Spoon is part of
the reason we scored on that play.
Mm-hmm.
If he doesn't make that block, I thinkon, whoever the left tackle was
for the Falcons at the time, D Hallprobably just gets pushed out of bounds.
(26:37):
Now, if we had a s- strip sack still,but we don't have a, a scoop and score.
That's high-powered [bleep], that effort.
You can't draw that up.
We're not, we can't reallyalways practice that.
But Spoon did it, and he d- he hasa ton of plays like that, you know?
And the way he leads the, has thelead block for Coby Bryant's pick six
in 2024 as well, is the same thing th-against, Arizona, high-powered [bleep].
(26:59):
So, but none of that y- doesn'tshow up on Spoon's stats, it
doesn't help him get All-Pro.
But in the film room,they're like, "That's us.
That's how we play."
Yeah.
and there's tons of examples as well,but like, when S- when Julian said that
to me and I was able to like immediatelysee it and then he gave me a couple more
examples, I was like, "Okay, we're here."
And so, yeah, when he was able tokinda capture the essence of the team
(27:21):
you know, the same thing I told DougBaldwin when he wrote the forward for my
first book was like, "Just tell me whatit felt like to be in that culture."
And then that's what, what Doug wroteis what he came up with, and Julian
was the same thing, was like, "Justtell me what, what it felt like
to be connected with these guys."
A- and that's what he came up with.
And they both killed it.
shout to Julian, shout to Doug.
They both did a great job.
Brandan (27:39):
Yeah.
It, it's really good.
And, so another term that comesup in the book, Mike, is the defense
operating with earned arrogance.
Yeah.
And, part of that was knowingthat, you know, they were gonna
win the Super Bowl before it started.
that- Mm.
So how did Coach Macdonald buildthat level of collective confidence?
Is it, i- i- does having aterm for it get you there?
(28:01):
Or, or what else goes into it?
Dugar (28:04):
I think you get there by focusing on the process
and focusing on yourself.
If you get too caught up in whatever theother team is doing, whatever the other
team is saying, then you can get lost.
Focus on, all right, I'm the best.
Like, if I'm a Uchenna Nwosu,I'm gonna be the best version
of Chenna, whatever that means.
If that's a lot of setting edges today,if that's a lot of, like, winning my
(28:27):
one-on-one with the left tackle today,if that's a lot of, like, running really
good games so Leonard can loop arounda lot because we see something on film
just be the best version of that today.
If that's just even in practice, that'sWednesday, be the best version of that.
Thursday, we might be workingon something else, red zone
third down, goal line, whatever.
Be that version of you.
Be the best version of you.
(28:48):
When you do that, and we all do that,whoever we're playing, wherever we're
playing, whatever time of day we'replaying, whatever day of the week
we're playing, which is pertinentthis year, where they're playing
on, like, five different days ofthe week, we're gonna probably win.
We're gonna probably- we're gonnahave a good shot if nothing else.
And you look at the three gamesthey lost last year, they were what?
By a combined nine points.
(29:09):
So even when we lose, chancesare we were in the fight.
They were never not in the fight.
And because its focus is on that,it's easy for the guys to buy in without
worrying about how the end looks.
Of course, everyone wants to win theSuper Bowl, but you can't just every
day go, "One, two, three, Super Bowl."
I think that's bad process.
you know, like Mike Macdonald'sspeech, remember the one they put
(29:30):
together in like the YouTube hypevideo before the, title game?
Right.
Listen to what Mike is saying.
I think the-- too much focus was onjust the fact that he called it shot.
But Listen to what he's saying abouthow the other team is gonna view them.
They know that we're not gonna quit.
They know that we're, we're gonna fight.
They know that we're like that.
You know?
(29:50):
It's like that's what you focus on,that you're, that you're relentless
that you're, that you, you'rea team that's willing to fight.
Don't worry about whether you're thehighest scoring offense or the, or
the best scoring defense, you have thebest special teams, you've got the best
receiver, you got the best quarterback.
Forget all that.
The other team needs to go into that fightknowing that, "Trying to knock this dude
down is gonna take everything I got."
(30:10):
And when you focus on that, nomatter who you're fighting, you
you're, you're probably gonna havea shot, and more likely than not
you're not gonna get knocked down.
and so his, his emphasis on thatfrom the beginning I think was really
important, which is why they were like,"Whether we're playing the Saints in week
three or the Patriots in the Super Bowl,if we be us, this might be built to last."
You know?
They, and they genuinely felt that, withall due respect to the opponent, they were
(30:31):
like, "They don't really matter that much.
Our job is to just whoop ass, 'causethe standard here is whooping ass."
You know?
So I think that was…
It's, it's hard to do that without being,sounding arrogant, and we see other
coaches try to deliver that message.
I think Ben Johnson this year is,like, doing the other version of it
which is, like, you know, he said,"I wanna have the best offense ever."
He's like, "I know how muchthe Broncos scored in 2013.
(30:54):
Let's be better than that."
And it's like if I was Ben, if Iwas advising him, I was like, "I
don't know if I would focus onthe quantifiable part of that."
Right.
Like, be the best offense the2026 Bears can be, and let
the rest take care of itself.
That would be my advice to him.
Now, i- we saying that nowin September, whatever.
If they end up scoring 38 points agame, then maybe it's like that's
why they pay Ben the big bucks.
But I think Mike Macdonald noticeably kindof goes the other way with his motivation.
(31:17):
"Let's just focus on being the bestdefense, whatever that looks like.
That's allowing 14 points,17 points, 18 points.
Let's just be the best version of us andthe points will take care of themselves."
That when you get to that way, whenyou behave that way, yeah, you're
gonna go in the Super Bowl saying,"Well, their left guard and their left
tackle can't block, so let's go kicktheir ass a- and not let them score."
Like, that's basically how they feltgoing into the game, not because
(31:37):
they had anything against WillCampbell and the, the left guard.
It was just like, "If we dous, they won't block us."
Right.
And, and they were right
Brandan (31:46):
He's Michael-Shawn Dugar.
The book is Twelve as One (31:47):
Mike Macdonald, the Seattle Seahawks, and
the Making of a Super Bowl Champion.
You can follow Mike out on X @MikeDugar,and, I saw you out on X, Mike
that, that you've, you've got someoffers for folks that, if they want
a signed copy they can get one from youor, I, I'm sure there's plenty other
avenues of ways to find the book too.
Dugar (32:10):
Yeah, it's available wherever books are sold online.
Go to Amazon, go to Barnes & Noble.
I think it's, also you can gostraight to the publisher, Triumph Books
and, and just order one from there.
But yeah, if you want asigned copy just DM me.
I already have about, haveabout 100 or so in, in stock, also
accounting for my friends and familycopies that I give my mom, you know
(32:31):
grandparents and stuff like that.
Should have about 100 for everyone else.
and first come, first served.
Shoot me a message, I'll sign it for you.
I'll make one of many trips to the, thenearest post office and I'll get it mailed
to you, wherever you are in the world.
If the post office goesthere, I'll get it to you.
You know, that's Australia,that's Germany, that's
(32:52):
Finland, Scotland, wherever.
I, I've shipped books prettymuch everywhere, everywhere
that they, they'll go.
France and everything.
So just shoot me a message in a DM.
I'll let you know the process,the charges and everything, and
I'll make sure you get a book.
Brandan (33:06):
So are we taking the, the coach Mike Macdonald approach with this, or
are we taking the, Coach Ben Johnsonapproach with this being the greatest
selling Seahawks book of all time?
Dugar (33:16):
Yeah, see, that's…
And, and honestly, no, it's, it'sfunny, 'cause that's kinda how I
thought about it, too, 'cause, youknow, you wanna be, like, a New York
Times Best Seller and, and all thatstuff, and it's like, you know what?
I'm about to just write the best bookthat I can write that my kids will
be proud of their dad having done.
You know, I wrote my first book, it came out when my daughter
was, I think, just had turned two.
(33:38):
and then I wrote this book,like, while I was, taking care
of my son, who was anywhere fromlike five months to eight months
in the window that I wrote this.
And it's like they're, I mentionboth of them in the, in the
dedications in the opening.
And it's like, no matter what, justwrite the best book you can, and then
when you get older and your kids areold enough to read and, you know, their
dad's an author and they wanna be a…
(34:00):
Is it something theywere proud that you did?
And, you know, I can't determine that now.
You know, my son can't read.
He likes to put his mouthon the cover of the book.
but he can't read it quite yet.
But when he gets older, hopefullymy son reads it, and my daughter as
well, and like, "All right, cool.
Dad did that?
That's pretty cool."
As, as long as I get that, I couldsell one copy, I could sell 1,000
I could sell a million copies.
That, that'll be the thingthat I'll be most proud of.
(34:22):
Well- And if the fans like it, of course.
I want the fans to enjoy it and itserve kind of like a time capsule for
one of the greatest- Fans are gonnalove this, Mike… seasons in Seahawks
Brandan (34:29):
history.
It's, it's a Seahawks book, andwe win the Super Bowl in it.
Like, what
… Dugar (34:34):
The ending is great.
You know?
it- spoiler, they win, yeah.
But yeah, so hopefully, hopefullythey fall in love with the process
too, along the way.
Brandan (34:43):
Well, definitely go check it out and make sure you follow Mike out on X.
Mike, really appreciate you comingon the show and making time, and
and really enjoyed the book as well.
Dugar (34:52):
Aw, thank you so much.
Thank you so much for having me.
Brandan (34:54):
And I think with that, there's only one thing left to say.
Go Hawks.
Welcome to the Sea Hawkers Podcast.
I'm your host, Brandan Schulze,and today I am joined by an author
and a Seahawks podcaster, orformer Seahawks po- podcaster.
we've got Mike Dugar,Michael-Shawn Dugar of The Athletic.
And, you've got a new bookout, Mike, 12 Is 1, recapping
(00:31):
the Seahawks Super Bowl season.
And, you, you've got someother stuff going on too, man.
how, how you been doing?
Dugar (00:38):
Been doing good.
First off, thank you for having me.
s- secondly, yeah,just I, I've been busy.
It may not look like it, 'cause I haven't…
I don't think I've had abyline in, a, a little bit.
But, I've, I've been nonstopworking, on, like, deeper dive
feature stuff, for The Athletic.
like, the way I've beenexplaining it to people is before I
(00:59):
was on more of a newspaper cadence.
You know, newspapers publish every day.
Now I'm more on, like, a magazine cadence.
You know, monthly.
Ma- Could even be quarterly, dependson access, what the story is.
Is it s- is it a sensitive story?
Is it a fun story?
so that's, like,the new, the new world.
which I know Seahawk fans weren'tsuper happy to see me bounce and, and
(01:19):
and end the Seahawks Man to Man podcastthat we had been doing for nine years.
But, it was definitely, thatwas my ninth year covering the team.
I've got two books out about the team.
They, they won the Super Bowl.
you know, if they, and if they win itagain I'll be around, but you know, it
it was time for the, for the next thing.
And I'm excited.
One of my, one of the stories I'mworking on is something that will
(01:41):
be of interest to Seahawk fans.
I, I, I, I will say that.
So that, that's cool.
Hopefully that comes togetherhere in a couple weeks.
Brandan (01:46):
Nice.
Well, one thing is clear, Mike, isw- when it comes to your writing
you're an incredibly talented writer.
And so I feel like as Seahawks fanswhen we, when we find someone who's
on the Seahawks beat and, andyou recognize that writing, you, you
think, "Okay, well, they're, they'llgo on to something big eventually."
And, and you went on to somethingbig with this book be- well
it's, and it's not your firstbook, but, holy smokes, man.
(02:07):
it's a incredible book.
I, I, I'm a couple chapters inand already, like, I'm hooked
because, well, I'm a Seahawks fan.
And it, it's taking a look atthe Seahawks Super Bowl season.
And we're, we're starting to get,we get a little bit behind the scenes
with the Hard Knocks episodes thatcome out recently, but, I mean
(02:27):
this takes you in depth that you haveall of the access that you had as a
reporter, this past season, andyou kind of, you get into a lot
of really what makes this team unique.
And like I said, we get some of that fromthe Hard Knocks, but, you, you have so
much more in-depth as to, what you sawthroughout the entire season last year.
Dugar (02:51):
Yeah, one of the things about being a beat writer for so long, is
you just see so much, and it's, it's notalways stuff you can report, at least
not traditionally in, you know,publications that have, like, some high
journalistic standards for sourcing andwhat's allowed and what you gotta verify.
But in a book you can put whatever.
Not to say I'm in there lying aboutpeople, but, you know, that you just have
a little bit more leeway to talk aboutan interaction in an elevator, you know?
(03:14):
Or in the lobby of somewhere, or at theairport, or in, in a hallway, or whatever.
Stuff that wasn't formally, "Hey,my microphone's in your face.
Talk."
Because when you can pieceall that together though, the
picture is fuller, you know?
And I think Hard Knocks does a good jobof getting to that even though they are…
There's cameras and microphones.
They're catching so muchof stuff that's not formal.
It's two players talking on the sideline.
(03:36):
It's, it's a coach just having a quickchat with a player in, in a meeting
room or Whatever it is, or a fight,like conflict resolution like we saw
with Derick Hall and Brady Russell, andI think that getting to piece all that
together as a beat writer using notonly from this season, 2024 season as
well, you know, comparing that withall the research I did on the Legion of
Boom years to kind of see like what theingredients of a championship season
(03:59):
you know, look like even though Iwasn't there in person for it in 2013.
I, I think that kind of informs, youknow, why I value like depth so much.
You know, we're all just thesum of our life story, you know
at whatever point you enter it.
So whether you're age 24 likeJackson Smith-Njigba, or you're
30, whatever, like Jarran Reed, or,you know, you're nearing 40 like
(04:19):
Mike Macdonald, our past experiencesinformed our present and can tell us
a lot about how our future will look.
And once you go back a little bitbefore you get forward, it just brings
to life so many of the moments thatyou saw, you know, on, on the field.
I, I think I said this when I didmy first book, but my second book
is kind of inspired the same way.
I love the way The LastDance was formatted.
(04:40):
Mm.
It's about one season-
Brandan (04:42):
Mm-hmm
Dugar (04:42):
in theory, basically about 1998, but you get so much of this context
about Scottie's upbringing and evenSteve Kerr and then Phil and obviously
Michael, that when you do see the bigmoments, like for instance Steve Kerr
hitting the big shot, in, in the,in the finals, you know, you, you got
so much stuff about Steve and his, hisdad, getting killed and everything.
So by the time you, he hits theshot, you're like, "Oh my God," like
(05:05):
to do saxoph- the horns are going.
It's slow.
You're like, "Oh, wow.
I feel like I was right there withSteve," and I feel the, the gravity
of the shot going in more so thanjust, "Oh, I watched the finals.
I remember him hitting that shot."
So that's wh- that's kind ofbeen my goal when I get the
chance to do something long-form.
It's like, all right, you knowJackson Smith-Njigba makes that catch.
You know Ernest Jones makes that tackle.
(05:25):
You know Sam makes that throw.
But what can I add to that?
So by the time you get to that pointin the, the game or whatever, you're
like, "Oh, damn, that throw meant alot more," or I, I feel it a lot more.
So that's, that's always been my goal.
I know you said you're only a few chaptersin, but I'm hoping that by the time
you and everyone else gets to the, theend of it, that they kind of feel the
same way I felt, watching that doc.
Brandan (05:45):
Well, one of the guys I do get that sense with of, just from what
I know so far and, and what I've readso far is Ernest Jones because- Yeah
you know, he lost his dad early onin the season, and I, I know you have
quite a few conversations with himthat they're a part of that, too.
And so him dedicating the season tohis dad who died of cancer early on and
(06:06):
then, you know, for him to go throughand then win that Super Bowl, like I
I have to imagine a guy like that, thatit, it adds that kind of impact to it.
Dugar (06:15):
Yeah, you know, you just see it, and I think I was so
glad, you know, 'cause the team…
The reason why I'm glad Hard Knocksdid what it did with the team is
'cause the, the team can controlso much of what they release.
One of probably my favorite pieceof content they've ever put out
is when Ernest Jones got the gameball after the Vikings game that
they won, like, 26 to nothing.
And you could see why guyslove Ernest, you know, so much.
(06:36):
He just, like, stopped everything andwas like, he took what usually is, like
a rah-rah moment into being like, "Oh,man, I was down bad, and I had to get
right with God and get right with y'alland do this for, you know, for y'all."
To, you know, a- and I just,he's a servant in that way.
Reminds me of DougBaldwin in a lot of ways.
And so getting to talk to Ernestand tell his story, it just brings
(06:57):
I think, the whole defense tolife, not just his own story.
Because you can see it even inHard Knocks as well, like, Ernest
is their, he's their heartbeat.
You know?
He, he riles them up orbring, calms them back down.
Whatever is needed, he's, he setsthe temperature, in that way.
So yeah, e- every convo I had withErnest, was meaningful for the book.
I think that's probably the person,without, like, going back and
(07:18):
fact-checking, I'm pretty sure that'sthe person I probably quote the most or
whose notes I went back and viewed themost, is, like, all my convos with Ernest.
I couldn't wait to talk to him, youknow, and when I got let into the locker
room after they won the Super Bowl.
He was just, he's just great, you know?
He really just embodies what it, what acurrent Seahawk looks like, I would say
more than Spoon, more than L- LeonardWilliams, more than Jarran Reed even.
(07:41):
It's just like, nah, ErnestJones, his story tells you the
story of the 2025 Seahawks.
Brandan (07:46):
Oh, there we go.
Big fan of Ernest Jones, so I,I l- I look forward to that.
The book is 12 as One (07:50):
Mike Macdonald, the Seattle Seahawks, and the
Making of a Super Bowl Champion.
And, and this idea, Mike, of 12 is 1, it, it frames the entire season
around a theme, and that's connectivity.
And that, that title, it comes fromCoach Mike's, that 12 is 1 mantra.
what did you see a- as far as whatthat phrase actually means, and how did
(08:15):
it translate from a slogan to the wayjust players are treated there every day?
Dugar (08:21):
Yeah, I think there's just a level of selflessness, that defined
the way the team went about its business.
Because football, it's very easy toget caught up in your own individual
agenda, you know, as an NFL player.
You know, whether you're on thepractice squad, you're at the bottom
of the roster, you're one of thesuperstars, like, everyone kinda feels
like they have something to prove.
You know, whether you're trying toprove that you are great or that you
(08:42):
prove that you belong in the league,you prove that you belong on the 53-man
roster, you prove that you can be anNFL receiver, whatever it is, you know?
And, I think talking to guys at thebottom of the roster and learning more
about, like, the ready squad thing wasreally cool, because I love talking
to those guys 'cause it's a reminderthat to even get to the league and be
a guy on the practice squad, you wereprobably that dude your whole life.
(09:05):
You probably killed Pop Warner.
You were probably- Yeah… afour-star recruit or whatever.
You probably are, are in the recordbooks at your college, you know?
And then you get to the NFL andit's like, "Wow, I'm not even
good enough to get on the field."
You know?
It's like how do you deal with that?
You know?
Right.
And how do the coaches deal with makingsure that you never feel like you're
not good enough to get on the field?
You just, you, they make you feellike, no, you're gonna get on the
(09:25):
field, and when you do, we're gonnaempower you to be the best version
of you that got you to the NFL.
and so I think that selflessness Thatthey got everyone to buy into, from the
top of the roster in Jackson Spoon to guyslike Drake Thomas, to believe, like, "No
you're all part of this thing equally.
All of you.
Even the, the, the 17 guys who are,quote-unquote, practice squad and
(09:46):
can't play, you are just as much apart of this as a Boye Mafe, as a
Leonard Williams, as a Charles Cross.
No matter if you're making $70million or $700,000, you are one.
We are, we are one."
And it sounds great.
That's very Pop Warner speechy, youknow, everyone gets, you know, lemon
lemon slices and Capri Suns afterwe win, or after we lose, you know
(10:08):
on, on a Saturday when we're kids.
But to get adults to buy into that,despite all the money that guys make
and the marketing opportunities and thefamilies that they're trying to feed
and the hometowns they're trying tomake proud, I think that's really tough.
And the way Mike Macdonald got guysto buy into that, guys who were in a
contract year, guys who were comingoff injury, you know, there's
so many different points in people'slives that you're trying to converge
(10:29):
to all just be focused on the mission.
I thought that was really howthey got this done, and you saw
it the way their depth showed up,particularly early in the year.
There were games where Darian Kendrickwas the best player on the field
and then the next game, it may beD'Anthony Bell making the big plays, and
then Tory Horton might make the bigplays, and then Brandon Peely might get
a, a, a big play, or Elijah Arroyo or CodyWhite, like all these guy- Drake Thomas
(10:51):
might lead them in TFLs one, one game.
And it's, it's not easy to get allthose guys to buy into the, that
any given game it can be them, andthen get the guys at the top of
the roster to also buy into that.
Right.
For Leonard Williams to be like, "Idon't need 15 sacks to prove myself.
If I got six and everybody else gotat least one or two or whatever and
we're winning, I'm okay with that."
(11:12):
You know?
That's, I've been around this team, the Seahawks a long, long enough to
know that they've, not every iterationof the team has operated that way.
There have been guys who arelike, "Yo, I'm trying to get mine.
If the team wins, that'sgreat too, but like, you know
football hurts, CTE is real.
I got a family to feed.
I need these numbers."
You know?
Yeah.
And, and that's, that's natural too.
That's human instinct as well.
(11:32):
I understand that too.
But to get guys to put that tothe side, whether you're Ken
Walker, who's, you know, was in acontract year, or you're Jareaux
knowing you're up for an extension.
Same thing with Spoon and some other guys.
Like, that was really powerful.
It's hard.
it's hard to do that year to year,which I think that scene in Hard Knocks
where Sherm goes to Mike Macdonald andhe's like, "Yo, how did you do that?"
"Because I watched usnot be able to do that.
(11:54):
How did you get it done?"
And Mike didn't have a great answer,but the fact that he did do it is what
I was trying to capture in the book.
Brandan (12:01):
Well, yeah, and, I mean, you have that unique perspective of
being there for the, the Pete Carrollera and then watching the transition.
The thing for Mike is he doesn'tnecessarily know how it's done.
I mean, he- Right… I supposehe could talk to John Schneider
who's been there the whole time.
But, like, he's trying to do ithis way as the head coach, and
(12:21):
really, a relatively, well,a brand new head coach, right?
So, what are some of thosethings that you saw then and in
that transition that made that work?
Dugar (12:33):
Yeah, I think the way Mike is willing to acknowledge
what he does not know is important.
As much as, like, being theguy, you want all the answers.
You want your players to ask you,"Hey, coach, what do we do if they
motion this and that, and thenthis is now the passing strength.
What do we do?"
You know?
Or like, "Hey, we gotta goto Australia for a game.
How are we gonna handle that?
We gotta do whatever.
(12:53):
We're about to play inthe Super Bowl, coach.
What do we do?"
You wanna make sure youhave all the answers.
Mike Macdonald's very comfortable saying,"Hey, I may not have that answer."
It's like that scene in The Pursuit ofHappyness when they ask him a question
and Will Smith in the interview is like,"I'm gonna tell you I don't know, but
I'm also gonna find the answer for you."
You know?
And, and that sincerity there, I think,that matters to the players, 'cause you
might be like, "You know what, Spoon?
(13:14):
I don't know if they, what happens ifthey motion the trips against this on this
down and distance from this, you know?
But I'll figure it.
Let me get back to you on Thursday."
You know what I mean?
Or, "You know, I don't know,how that circumstance should go.
I don't know what the head coachwould do in this situation.
Let me consult Leslie Frazier."
You know, I think hiring Leslie Frazierin, at all was a sign of humility.
And then the last partis Mike didn't play.
He played high school ball.
(13:36):
He didn't play college ball at Georgia.
He just, he was a decent, like,high school linebacker, I think.
And so you gotta humble yourselfa little bit if you're gonna be
telling Devon Witherspoon whatto do and how to play football.
You do.
You just, 'cause you, you're coming froma different place than a Mike Vrabel would
be, you know, or some of these guys who,who did play and then played really well.
and so because he's coming into itwith that space, but not acting like
(13:58):
he's a fraud, but no, I'm, I'm in thisquest for knowledge just like you guys.
I'm in this quest to make you guys better.
I think the way he came at thatreally got him to establish his
own standard independent of whatPete Carroll had already set.
you know, I rememberhe told me a story once.
He was like, he was trying to tell TerrellSuggs how to do something, and like, in
his mind, he was like, "Damn, I'm reallytelling Terrell Suggs how to do this
(14:21):
assignment," or whatever it was, andhe had to remind himself, "No, no, no.
I put in the work to be able toTerrell, to tell Terrell Suggs that.
And also, even though Terrell Suggs, asgreat as he is, he wants to be coached
so I gotta have the answers for him."
And Mike figured that out in Baltimore,and he really put it in application
when he, when he got to Seattle,because players recognized that
(14:42):
and wanted to be coached by him.
it didn't matter that he wasreplacing someone who, in Pete Carroll
who not only had success, but had areally healthy culture for a long time.
I mean, we see the juxtaposition here.
I think it's really great that theybeat the Patriots, you know, for
like, the story purpose in that JerodMayo and Mike Macdonald were hired
in the same cycle to replace Hall ofFame coaches who had an established
(15:05):
culture and established way of winningin Bill Belichick and Pete Carroll.
And Jerod, I b- and they werethe two youngest coaches in that
cycle, as w- two youngest coachesin the league when they got hired.
Jerod flamed out immediately,and, and understandably so.
It's hard to replace Bill Belichick.
It's also hard to replace Pete, andI think the degree of difficulty is
really heightened in their two storiesand their two pasts, and the way
(15:26):
Mike did it was just by just be you.
You know, be you, put the workin, and know that you've earned
the right to be you, and thenthe players will, will follow.
So I think there's a ton of examples.
I put a bunch in the book, but Ithink that overarching theme of just
like Mike put the work in, tohave the right to tell these guys how
to the, the culture's gonna be, howthey're gonna handle these situations.
And knowing that he doesn't have all theanswers right away, I think that there
(15:49):
was a lot of power in that, not only fromhis players, but also the coaches who were
tasked with also implementing the culture.
Brandan (15:56):
Yeah.
It, it's just, it, it is wild tothink, like, especially for a guy like
well, even Coach Pete, you know.
Pete Carroll had two different stints as ahead coach before he finally, y- before he
worked it out- Mm… in how he wanted to, organize a team and build a culture.
And, and even Bill Belichick, youknow, he wasn't successful as a
(16:16):
head coach the first time whenhe was hired on with the Browns.
And so, yeah, to, to
take all, just considering all that,for him to be able to come in and be
able to make that transition so smoothlythat, you know, he ends up winning a
Super Bowl in his sophomore season,it, it's, it's wild, Mike.
Dugar (16:37):
Yeah, and I think- While I don't think age is that much of a
barrier in terms of connecting withplayers, you know, I think the
scene, with Nick Emmanwori in HardKnocks was really powerful when they
both kind of come to the conclusionlike, "Oh wow, you keep receipts from
people say things about you too, Coach?
I didn't know that.
I do too.
Let's go kill people together," you know?
(16:57):
but Pete also was able to relateto the players, you know, despite
being the oldest coach in the league.
I do think another component for Mikethat worked in his favor was, and I
and I got Ernest Jones and some othersto speak to this around Super Bowl
time, is his, h- where he was in life.
You know, Mike Macdonald I believeis 39, now, and that's not too
much older than some of these guys.
But beyond the age part, likeMike's son Jack was born I think
(17:20):
in December of his first season.
Stephanie's pregnant again.
I don't know if they announced thegender, but like the fact that he's
changing diapers and stuff just the sameway a lot of these guys on the team are.
Like I'm sure you follow a lot of theplayers and stuff on social media.
Half the damn team had a babyor got married- Uh-huh… you
know, this, this off season.
It was, it was nuts.
It was very clear what everyone wasdoing, in the off season or at least
(17:43):
planning to do in terms of these weddings.
So with the fact that Mike's only beenmarried for to Steph for a few years
and then, you know, his son Jack isso small, he's going through a lot of
that same stuff too, like balancing theresponsibilities of being a father, the
joy of seeing the little one on the fieldafter you win a game or lose a game or
whatever it is, and the fact that they cankind of bond in that away from football.
(18:06):
I do, I do know that the playerssaw something in that as well.
It's not that they saw him necessarily asequals, like you're still the authority
figure in the building, but like ErnestJones talked about that a- as well.
It's like, yeah, my son,Ernest V is only a few months
older than Jack, you know?
Like I'm, he's been married to hiswife Tyra for only a little bit more
time, little bit less time than Mike'sbeen married to Steph, you know?
(18:28):
And they can just talk about that.
Oh your son just started walking in?
How many teeth your kid got?
Does your kid watch this on YouTube?
Blah, blah, blah.
Does your kid sleep?
Your, oh your kid threw upon you this morning too?
That's cra- You know?
Like that stuff, it all matters andit helps you build that connectivity.
It's just one of the manyways you can do that.
I do think that contributed maybe tothe way he connected with guys too.
That's a little different than, than Pete.
(18:48):
You know, Pete got grandkidsthat are in high school right now
I'm pretty sure, whereas, yeah,Mike was a little different.
It's a small thing, but when you're tryingto build, like see that we're all one-
Brandan (18:57):
Yeah
… Dugar (18:57):
being at the same point in life as some of these guys, it
it, it contributes to that as well.
Brandan (19:01):
Yeah.
And, and you talk about how connectivityis important, but I, I have to imagine
like on other teams, like yeah, they're,they're all dads and but you, you hear
guys like Cooper Kupp talk about theteam being connected in a way that's
different than anywhere that he's been.
And, you know, he was on a SuperBowl winning team with the Rams.
And so for him to come from theRams, come to Seattle, and see that
(19:24):
connectivity piece, but see it that,that it's different than anywhere that
he's been before, whether it's, youknow, Eastern Washington or, or
LA, how- How did that, h-hit himand how did you approach that with him?
Dugar (19:43):
yeah, that's a, that's a good question.
oh, we're chopping up a little bit.
You still got me?
Brandan (19:47):
I gotcha.
Dugar (19:48):
Yep.
Okay, sorry.
that's a great question.
I'm glad you brought that up.
And I think the v- I talked to theveterans last year about that quite a bit
'cause I was fascinated by the, the peoplewho weren't as insulated, you know, like
D Law, who had been somewhere for a while.
Jarran Reed, who left andcame back, had been in Green
Bay, had been in Kansas City.
Leonard Williams, who had beenon the two New York teams.
Julian Love, who had been in New York.
(20:09):
And what they, what they spoketo in the difference is, one, the
team was really good, you know?
Julian and Leo were very candidabout the fact that like, "Yeah, we made
the playoffs in 2022" like, we probablyshouldn't have, with the Giants, you know?
And they, they weren't that good.
And they won a game in theplayoffs a- as well before getting
destroyed by the, the Eagles.
But what those veterans spoke togenerally was the selflessness, you know?
(20:32):
I remember talking to D Lawabout how D Hall and Boye Mafe
approached like their sack totals.
I think those guys might've combinedfor, what, three or four sacks last
year, D Hall and, and Boye Mafe.
But they, what, signed contractsthat combined are for nearly $100
million, Right… this off season.
And there was no guaranteethat they were gonna do that.
But D Law saw, just like I've seen,guys care about them sack numbers, who
(20:52):
are like, "Damn this gap integrity.
I need to get to the quarterback, yo.
I'm trying to get paid."
And D Hall and Boye legitimately didnot operate that way, and I saw it, and
I'm glad that D Law spoke to it too.
Being like, "Yo, those guys reallyare focused on our mission."
And I think that's very importantthat the veterans could speak to
that, but also give these guys anexample of how to be selfless as well.
(21:13):
And I think that's where I'mglad you brought up Cooper Kupp.
'Cause Cooper Kupp was just like, "Guys."
I think that really stood outwhen they played the Rams.
Cooper Kupp went out of his way to belike, "This is, this is not about me."
Right.
You know what I'm saying?
Like I, he, he said, I, I quotedthis in the book too, "It would
be a disservice to me, or to myteammates, to go out there and act
like my story is any more importantthan anybody else's story on Sunday.
(21:37):
This story, this story is about theSeahawks going to beat the Rams."
I believe he was talking about thisbefore the NFC championship game.
"This story is not Cooper Kupp gettingrevenge against the team that cut him.
No, I'm 1 of 53 guys whohas a story, you know?
And they all matter to the mission."
And I, and not only did he saythat, he lived that every day.
And so whether it was a D Law or aLeonard Williams chasing down Jayden
(22:00):
Daniels on fourth and a mile, in theCommander's game being like, "Hey guys
I'm in year whatever the hell, and I'msprinting my ass off on fourth down.
That's the standard here."
Or Cooper Kupp like, "Yo, I don'tcare how many catches I had.
Obviously I want the ball, but I'mhere to do my job to the best of my
ability, 'cause that's the mission.
That's the standard here."
Those guys set the tone, and I thinkthe guys followed them below them.
(22:21):
Like if Cooper Kupp's not complainingabout his targets, who is Derek
Young to complain about his?
You know what I mean?
Sure.
And, and not to say that Derekwas complaining, but like if D
if D Law's bought in, who are you,Derick Hall, to not be bought in?
You know what I mean?
If you're, if you see Leo runningdown because that's the
standard to go chase the ball.
If you're Brandon Peely, well,get your ass, go chase the ball.
(22:44):
That's, or you're ByronMurphy, go chase the ball.
That's the standard.
And the veterans who have been around,buying into that, letting everybody
know it was different, setting anexample, and then highlighting the
guys who were following the example,I thought was also a big part when I
was revisiting the season as, as well.
'Cause you need that.
I know every team in the off-season'slike, "Let's get younger, let's
get cheaper, let's get faster."
(23:04):
That's great.
You need vets.
Vets set the tone.
They really set the tone for the whole,the whole thing, because these young
bucks don't know what they don't know.
They're following the vets whoteach them how to take care of their
bodies, how to conduct themselves inthe media, how to behave on, in big
moments, how to behave on a day-to-day.
and so I think the, the factthat they had these guys who had been
(23:24):
around, who had been on bad teamsand been on good teams, enforcing the
culture, oh, that was, that was justas important as drafting Grey Zabel.
That was just as important asdrafting Nick Emmanwori and, and doing
other, some of the, and signing Sam,some of these other, these great
moves that they made Cooper Kupp'spresence there was just as important.
Jarran Reed's presencewas just as important.
(23:46):
The D Law signing, for his presencealone, was just as important.
See, I'm glad you broughtup those veterans.
Brandan (23:51):
Yeah.
Well, another one of thoseveterans is Julian Love, and he
wrote the forward to the book.
Yeah.
And he told, he told thestor- Shout out Julian.
He told a story there that I thinkSeahawks fans would get a kick of.
Had, had Julian ever written,anything, before doing the forward?
I
Dugar (24:06):
I, I don't know.
I, I knew that I was stereotyping alittle bit through his, his alma mater.
I was like, "Okay, the Notre Dameguy can probably write," you know?
So I, I was like, "Letme just start there."
Uh-huh… and then also justmy conversations with Julian, his
perspective is so good, and heunderstands how the power of examples.
So, like, he'll tell me something.
(24:26):
for instance, he, he's the firstperson to reveal to me that they
have the saying, "High-powered [bleep]."
He told me that in the off-season,and I was like, "Okay, what is that?"
And I talk about our conversation ofhim explaining to me what is that
and he gives me all these examples.
I throw some back at him, and,like, he understands the power of an
example explaining the, the concept.
Mm.
Whether it's 12 is 1, chasingedges, he always finds an
(24:49):
example to help illustrate that.
So I was like, "Okay,how will he illustrate?
What would the example heuse for the, for the book?"
I forget what the prompt I gave himwas, but I, he, he just nailed it.
He, he just really capturedit, and I'll tell you this too.
I was so…
I was beating myself up 'cause I gotto the end of the book, I'm writing
it, and I'm like, "Damn, I don't haveenough about shadow boxing in here."
(25:10):
Like, it was such a big thing.
I was like, "Where do I put it?"
You know?
Like, "How do I squeeze that in?"
And then I got Julian's forwardafter I finished everything
else, and, lo and behold, youknow, he mentions shadow boxing.
I'm like, "Oh, see?
I, I knew I could trust Julian."
Now it's in the front of the book.
'Cause otherwise, there wasn'tthat many mentions of shadow boxing
till the end, and I was like,"That just doesn't feel right."
(25:30):
But I only had nine weeks to do the book.
There's only so much rearrangingyou do, you know- Right… right
before the deadline.
So I was like, "I hope…"
You know, and then Julian sentthat in, and I was like, "Oh, yeah
my guy Julian Love," you know?
Yeah.
And, and he killed it.
Not just 'cause he mentioned shadowboxing, but as, as you read, like
he really captured the essence ofthe team from a player's perspective
and I, I really appreciated that.
Brandan (25:50):
Okay, I've heard some of these sayings, like 12 is 1.
I haven't heard high-powered [bleep].
What's that about?
Dugar (25:55):
yeah, I dedicated I think, the Spoon chapter from
week 12, I wanna say, to that.
But really it's just, it's themoments that make a difference
that aren't always quantifiable.
And, two that came to mind onceJulian said it to me and explained
it, that I was, "Okay, to make sureI understand, would that be like how
(26:16):
Spoon gave the lead block to DerickHall on the scoop and score against
the Falcons in the 2024 season?"
He was like, "Exactly."
There's nothing that would everquantify that Spoon is part of
the reason we scored on that play.
Mm-hmm.
If he doesn't make that block, I thinkon, whoever the left tackle was
for the Falcons at the time, D Hallprobably just gets pushed out of bounds.
(26:37):
Now, if we had a s- strip sack still,but we don't have a, a scoop and score.
That's high-powered [bleep], that effort.
You can't draw that up.
We're not, we can't reallyalways practice that.
But Spoon did it, and he d- he hasa ton of plays like that, you know?
And the way he leads the, has thelead block for Coby Bryant's pick six
in 2024 as well, is the same thing th-against, Arizona, high-powered [bleep].
(26:59):
So, but none of that y- doesn'tshow up on Spoon's stats, it
doesn't help him get All-Pro.
But in the film room,they're like, "That's us.
That's how we play."
Yeah.
and there's tons of examples as well,but like, when S- when Julian said that
to me and I was able to like immediatelysee it and then he gave me a couple more
examples, I was like, "Okay, we're here."
And so, yeah, when he was able tokinda capture the essence of the team
(27:21):
you know, the same thing I told DougBaldwin when he wrote the forward for my
first book was like, "Just tell me whatit felt like to be in that culture."
And then that's what, what Doug wroteis what he came up with, and Julian
was the same thing, was like, "Justtell me what, what it felt like
to be connected with these guys."
A- and that's what he came up with.
And they both killed it.
shout to Julian, shout to Doug.
They both did a great job.
Brandan (27:39):
Yeah.
It, it's really good.
And, so another term that comesup in the book, Mike, is the defense
operating with earned arrogance.
Yeah.
And, part of that was knowingthat, you know, they were gonna
win the Super Bowl before it started.
that- Mm.
So how did Coach Macdonald buildthat level of collective confidence?
Is it, i- i- does having aterm for it get you there?
(28:01):
Or, or what else goes into it?
Dugar (28:04):
I think you get there by focusing on the process
and focusing on yourself.
If you get too caught up in whatever theother team is doing, whatever the other
team is saying, then you can get lost.
Focus on, all right, I'm the best.
Like, if I'm a Uchenna Nwosu,I'm gonna be the best version
of Chenna, whatever that means.
If that's a lot of setting edges today,if that's a lot of, like, winning my
(28:27):
one-on-one with the left tackle today,if that's a lot of, like, running really
good games so Leonard can loop arounda lot because we see something on film
just be the best version of that today.
If that's just even in practice, that'sWednesday, be the best version of that.
Thursday, we might be workingon something else, red zone
third down, goal line, whatever.
Be that version of you.
Be the best version of you.
(28:48):
When you do that, and we all do that,whoever we're playing, wherever we're
playing, whatever time of day we'replaying, whatever day of the week
we're playing, which is pertinentthis year, where they're playing
on, like, five different days ofthe week, we're gonna probably win.
We're gonna probably- we're gonnahave a good shot if nothing else.
And you look at the three gamesthey lost last year, they were what?
By a combined nine points.
(29:09):
So even when we lose, chancesare we were in the fight.
They were never not in the fight.
And because its focus is on that,it's easy for the guys to buy in without
worrying about how the end looks.
Of course, everyone wants to win theSuper Bowl, but you can't just every
day go, "One, two, three, Super Bowl."
I think that's bad process.
you know, like Mike Macdonald'sspeech, remember the one they put
(29:30):
together in like the YouTube hypevideo before the, title game?
Right.
Listen to what Mike is saying.
I think the-- too much focus was onjust the fact that he called it shot.
But Listen to what he's saying abouthow the other team is gonna view them.
They know that we're not gonna quit.
They know that we're, we're gonna fight.
They know that we're like that.
You know?
(29:50):
It's like that's what you focus on,that you're, that you're relentless
that you're, that you, you'rea team that's willing to fight.
Don't worry about whether you're thehighest scoring offense or the, or
the best scoring defense, you have thebest special teams, you've got the best
receiver, you got the best quarterback.
Forget all that.
The other team needs to go into that fightknowing that, "Trying to knock this dude
down is gonna take everything I got."
(30:10):
And when you focus on that, nomatter who you're fighting, you
you're, you're probably gonna havea shot, and more likely than not
you're not gonna get knocked down.
and so his, his emphasis on thatfrom the beginning I think was really
important, which is why they were like,"Whether we're playing the Saints in week
three or the Patriots in the Super Bowl,if we be us, this might be built to last."
You know?
They, and they genuinely felt that, withall due respect to the opponent, they were
(30:31):
like, "They don't really matter that much.
Our job is to just whoop ass, 'causethe standard here is whooping ass."
You know?
So I think that was…
It's, it's hard to do that without being,sounding arrogant, and we see other
coaches try to deliver that message.
I think Ben Johnson this year is,like, doing the other version of it
which is, like, you know, he said,"I wanna have the best offense ever."
He's like, "I know how muchthe Broncos scored in 2013.
(30:54):
Let's be better than that."
And it's like if I was Ben, if Iwas advising him, I was like, "I
don't know if I would focus onthe quantifiable part of that."
Right.
Like, be the best offense the2026 Bears can be, and let
the rest take care of itself.
That would be my advice to him.
Now, i- we saying that nowin September, whatever.
If they end up scoring 38 points agame, then maybe it's like that's
why they pay Ben the big bucks.
But I think Mike Macdonald noticeably kindof goes the other way with his motivation.
(31:17):
"Let's just focus on being the bestdefense, whatever that looks like.
That's allowing 14 points,17 points, 18 points.
Let's just be the best version of us andthe points will take care of themselves."
That when you get to that way, whenyou behave that way, yeah, you're
gonna go in the Super Bowl saying,"Well, their left guard and their left
tackle can't block, so let's go kicktheir ass a- and not let them score."
Like, that's basically how they feltgoing into the game, not because
(31:37):
they had anything against WillCampbell and the, the left guard.
It was just like, "If we dous, they won't block us."
Right.
And, and they were right
Brandan (31:46):
He's Michael-Shawn Dugar.
The book is Twelve as One (31:47):
Mike Macdonald, the Seattle Seahawks, and
the Making of a Super Bowl Champion.
You can follow Mike out on X @MikeDugar,and, I saw you out on X, Mike
that, that you've, you've got someoffers for folks that, if they want
a signed copy they can get one from youor, I, I'm sure there's plenty other
avenues of ways to find the book too.
Dugar (32:10):
Yeah, it's available wherever books are sold online.
Go to Amazon, go to Barnes & Noble.
I think it's, also you can gostraight to the publisher, Triumph Books
and, and just order one from there.
But yeah, if you want asigned copy just DM me.
I already have about, haveabout 100 or so in, in stock, also
accounting for my friends and familycopies that I give my mom, you know
(32:31):
grandparents and stuff like that.
Should have about 100 for everyone else.
and first come, first served.
Shoot me a message, I'll sign it for you.
I'll make one of many trips to the, thenearest post office and I'll get it mailed
to you, wherever you are in the world.
If the post office goesthere, I'll get it to you.
You know, that's Australia,that's Germany, that's
(32:52):
Finland, Scotland, wherever.
I, I've shipped books prettymuch everywhere, everywhere
that they, they'll go.
France and everything.
So just shoot me a message in a DM.
I'll let you know the process,the charges and everything, and
I'll make sure you get a book.
Brandan (33:06):
So are we taking the, the coach Mike Macdonald approach with this, or
are we taking the, Coach Ben Johnsonapproach with this being the greatest
selling Seahawks book of all time?
Dugar (33:16):
Yeah, see, that's…
And, and honestly, no, it's, it'sfunny, 'cause that's kinda how I
thought about it, too, 'cause, youknow, you wanna be, like, a New York
Times Best Seller and, and all thatstuff, and it's like, you know what?
I'm about to just write the best bookthat I can write that my kids will
be proud of their dad having done.
You know, I wrote my first book, it came out when my daughter
was, I think, just had turned two.
(33:38):
and then I wrote this book,like, while I was, taking care
of my son, who was anywhere fromlike five months to eight months
in the window that I wrote this.
And it's like they're, I mentionboth of them in the, in the
dedications in the opening.
And it's like, no matter what, justwrite the best book you can, and then
when you get older and your kids areold enough to read and, you know, their
dad's an author and they wanna be a…
(34:00):
Is it something theywere proud that you did?
And, you know, I can't determine that now.
You know, my son can't read.
He likes to put his mouthon the cover of the book.
but he can't read it quite yet.
But when he gets older, hopefullymy son reads it, and my daughter as
well, and like, "All right, cool.
Dad did that?
That's pretty cool."
As, as long as I get that, I couldsell one copy, I could sell 1,000
I could sell a million copies.
That, that'll be the thingthat I'll be most proud of.
(34:22):
Well- And if the fans like it, of course.
I want the fans to enjoy it and itserve kind of like a time capsule for
one of the greatest- Fans are gonnalove this, Mike… seasons in Seahawks
Brandan (34:29):
history.
It's, it's a Seahawks book, andwe win the Super Bowl in it.
Like, what
… Dugar (34:34):
The ending is great.
You know?
it- spoiler, they win, yeah.
But yeah, so hopefully, hopefullythey fall in love with the process
too, along the way.
Brandan (34:43):
Well, definitely go check it out and make sure you follow Mike out on X.
Mike, really appreciate you comingon the show and making time, and
and really enjoyed the book as well.
Dugar (34:52):
Aw, thank you so much.
Thank you so much for having me.
Brandan (34:54):
And I think with that, there's only one thing left to say.
Go Hawks.
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