Hard Knocks Seahawks Episode 3: Coach Mike's Mentality Shift, Spoon's Payday

Hard Knocks episode three just dropped and we're live with our reaction. Join us as we break down JSN's route-tree and the episode's cinematic camera work, the underdogs still fighting for a roster spot, and what the "let it rip" mentality says about Jalen Milroe's development. We get into Devon Witherspoon's contract payday and how it paid off the storyline from the first episode. Plus, we got to see what that extension says about the front office's culture and about low-ego stars and quiet leadership in the locker room. The Terrion Arnold saga continues and we got to see the beginnings of what his path to the roster could look like. Finally, we discuss Mike Macdonald's "go win" mentality shift and get a bunch of great questions straight from the flock in our live chat. 

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Episode Transcript

Brandan (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to the Sea Hawkers podcast.
I'm your host, Brandan Schulze, and I amjoined by a couple of my good buddies.
We've got a trio of people for episodenumber tres in the Hard Knock series.
Start with my good buddy Adam Emmert.
How you doing?

Adam (00:26):
I'm doing good, man.
I would say interestingepisode, but maybe not quite as,
titillating as the last two, iskind of the way that I looked at it.
I don't know if you kind of felt thesame, Clinton, going through it, or if,
you know, something got you excited, during that, episode there.
I don't know.

Clinton (00:44):
There w- I, I did get excited at times.
It was not, it was not episode two,let's be fair, but look, Return of the
Jedi is not Empire Strikes Back, guys.
This is how these things work.
It's okay.
Plus, it's number three.
It's the middle of the program, right?
So bound to be a little bit of alull, but still super fun, guys.
There were, for me, there was lots oflittle anecdotes and things to pick up on.

(01:06):
And Brandan, you talked, I think it waslast week or whenever we were talking on
text or whatever, and you're like, "Youknow, they're always gonna find the,
those, those dudes they're gonna anchor onto be like, 'Will, will he make the 53?'"
And I think we got a couple of thosestories budding for sure this week.

Brandan (01:20):
That seemed to be where they were going.
So I don't know if it was the energyfrom the week that led into the
preseason game that was kind of a dudtoo, but, it, it was definitely,
of the three, my least favorite.
And maybe it was because,Clinton, we didn't see, get an
appearance of Derick Hall's truck.
I, I think that's- … whatwas missing from this episode.

Clinton (01:40):
Yes, there was, there's not enough film because the truck is that
big, so they had to, just, maybefour and five we'll get the film again.
But we got lots of stuff.
We got nuggets, and right on screen here,guys, we got Ryan911, our executive live
produ- producer, coming with a $9.99
super chat saying, "I love this show.
We get inside look at thedecision process and character

(02:00):
references for Terrion Arnold.
The boom cut to slow-mowater sprinkler shot."
That was erotic.
"Absolute cinema start to finish."
So Ryan loves it, and Ithink we love Ryan, guys.

Brandan (02:11):
Absolutely love Ryan.
Yeah.
Talking about…
Okay, s- let's start there thensince, that's where Ryan's
pointing us, the, the cinematic shots.
And I would say the, the part of thisshow that was the most cinematic, not,
n- the sprinkler shot was fine, but,Jaxon Smith-Njigba- That's what I'm doing.
That's what I'm doing … we g-we get, we get the route tree of JSN,

(02:33):
plus we get the background of JimiHendrix- Mm-hmm … and Voodoo Child,
and, that to me was the mostcinematic part of the episode, Adam.

Adam (02:42):
Dude, that was actually probably one of the cooler parts of
it, no doubt about it, in just kindof the explosion of multiple JSNs.
Can we just have that,like, on a regular play?
That'd be pretty dope.
But-

Brandan (02:53):
We just need seven JSNs on the wide receiver roster.

Adam (02:56):
Yes, exactly.
But one of the things that I enjoyedabout that small segment, and they
could've dwelled there for a lot longerand talk about route running- Yes
and what JSN does, and I'dhave been glued to the screen.
But I, you hear me ask, like, whenwe get other professional football
players, not others, but professionalfootball players in front of us, 'cause
none of us were professionals,- Ioften ask them, you know, like, what

(03:20):
goes into running a good route, right?
Like, it's something that I'm kindof obsessed with because You kind
of get these vague explanations.
And JSN is one of those route runnersthat also just doesn't look like he's
kicking ass with his route runningbecause of the smoothness of it, and
they talked about that a little bit.
But I've now heard something mentioned acouple times in reference to JSN and his

(03:44):
route running of why it is the way thatit is, and it's his pad level- Mm-hmm
that he doesn't end up shifting levelsas he's, like, gearing down to get into a
cut and then, you know, breaking back out.
It's always just here, and that'sthe thing that really gives a lot of
these guys fits because they don'tknow where he's going to start with.
And then they get in hotels, andthen JSN's fast as hell, and then he

(04:04):
can explode into 11 players when hegets to the top of his route tree.
Good night, Irene.
He is truly unstoppable, like, Mike Macdonald was saying
throughout the, the practice.

Clinton (04:14):
And I think the other piece, too, like, those are
all absolutely correct, and thecinematography was so super cool.
Love Mike, called him SilverSurfer, so I had to break my
Silver Surfer shirt out there.
I can't seem to understandwhich way I should go.
But he's a great character.
But the other thing that, you know,JSN always did really good, and
then last year I saw it more thanever in t- big touchdowns against

(04:36):
Jacksonville, big touchdowns againstTen- Tennessee, which we were in the
stadium for that one against Tennessee,was his late hand movement also.
So while they're talking about his padlevel, and that's amazing for him to get
open, but even, even if he doesn't getall the space he needs, at the very end of
his routes, like the split moment beforethe ball arrives on him, he's got some

(04:58):
little, little bit of a hand movement thathe gets away with over and over again.
Because it's not a strong push-off,but it's enough, Brandan, to give
that little bit of separation, andhonestly, that's why he got so many
breakaway touchdowns last year, too.
It wasn't like catch it and caughtbecause it's a great toss from Sam.
It's catch it, enough separation,and he's gone for six.

Brandan (05:18):
Yeah.
The JSN unstoppable bit is,is something that I definitely
got excited by watching this.
And if, if even- Yeah … his owncoaches are saying, "Man, he looks even
better this year than he did last year,"that has me hyped up for, this
upcoming season for Jaxon Smith-Njigba.
Marlon85 checking in saying,"I like seeing the Uso stuff.

(05:38):
My preseason watch this year is notackle with Uso, Phil, and Eastern."
And, yeah, you talked about thisa little bit, Clinton, that we- we're
starting to get to see some of theanchor players, some of the guys that…
Because they're trying to buildup emotion, especially on the
edges of the roster, right?
Because you want to findguys that you can root for.
Montorie Foster Jr.

(06:00):
has that kind of, y- storythat, you know, you can root for.
Uso has that, story that youcan root for, being a guy on the
depth piece, or, you know, atthe bottom of the depth chart.
And, you know, you see himstruggling a little bit in this.
And so- You know, can that storylinebuild to where, okay, he was struggling,

(06:21):
getting pushed around, and then, youknow, hopefully after a couple preseason
games, you start to see him becomemore impactful on the defensive line.

Clinton (06:29):
I think he's just gotta go play quarterback like he did on eight
on, eight on eight in Hawaii on a smallisland and just barrel over people my
size, and he'll be, he'll be A-okay.

Brandan (06:37):
I think- I, I think that was less than your size.
I, I think I saw him push over afive-year-old on his way to the end zone.

Adam (06:42):
He looked like Andy Reid in the punt, pass, and
kick contest back in the day.
Like, if you guys have ever seenthat video, Andy Reid was, like,
seven feet tall in the fifth grade.

Clinton (06:51):
That's funny.
and, you know, he did makeone nice play during the game.
And look, the…
I thought the stuff in the practicefor Uso was kinda cool to see,
just, like, the pros picking up,like, "Hey, they're getting into,
like, don't give him your chest.
Like, they are getting into your chest."
I mean, look, this is a guy that hasn'tplayed a lot of football, and he's
skilled enough to be here at this point.

(07:12):
Cool that we have plenty, plenty of, of depth along the defensive line.
Seems to me like Uso Adam is a guythat could learn, marinate a little
bit, hopefully get his technique there.
He probably has strength and ability,clearly, otherwise he wouldn't be
here, and that seems like a guy that'sprobably headed for the practice squad
maybe, and that's probably okay for him.

(07:32):
That's a really good spot, I think.

Adam (07:35):
Oh, I think if you're Uso and you are able to at least land your-
s- yourself a spot on the practicesquad, you're thrilled with that.

Clinton (07:42):
Right.

Adam (07:42):
I mean, as a guy who's definitely in the developmental
realm and all of that.
It is interesting to hear, you know, Leoget after him and be like, "Hey, you know,
don't, don't give up your chest like that.
You know, use your hands, use your hands."
There's just so much that mustgo through your mind, and we make
fun of defensive linemen all the timeas fans and, you know, as other
football players do as well whenthey're like, "Yeah, okay, defensive

(08:06):
line, go down there, go get ball."
Like, you know, it's notall that complicated.
Well, there's more to it than that itturns out, and maybe hand fighting is
kind of the next thing that he needsto, you know, pick up his game on.
You talked a little bit about cinematicstuff, earlier, Brandan, and,
I feel like the Chamber of Commerceof Seattle owes, HBO money.

(08:26):
'Brandan: Cause,- I, I feel like it was a very much a Seattle commercial- Mm
in this episode and, and maybe that's whyit was Carly's favorite is, we got
to see a very cinematic, sense of thecity of Seattle and the surrounding area.
We've got Shane TurnerAcoustic coming in with 2.99
Australian, saying, "Justchipping in to the show.

(08:46):
just chipping in to show some love."
Appreciate that, Shane Turner.
Also appreciate Phil.
Phil joining us on the show.
Yeah.
Welcome, sir.

Phil (08:55):
There he is.
There he is.
Mr.

Adam (08:57):
Phil.

Phil (08:57):
It worked this time.
I got in.
There we go.

Clinton (09:00):
He's

Brandan (09:01):
in.
How you

Clinton (09:01):
doing, bud?

Phil (09:02):
I, I'm doing awesome.
It was a fantastic episode.
Enjoyed it.
Enjoyed all the JSN.
I heard you guys talking about it, so Idon't get a say that maybe JSN is, the
best player in the entire league, but,-

Clinton (09:13):
Th- you, you came in hot.
It's a-okay, man.
Like, we- I

Phil (09:16):
mean-

Clinton (09:16):
We, we, we're, we all think that … you couldn't quarterback-
We all think that for sure … you

Phil (09:19):
couldn't quarterback with JSN.
I'm thinking, like, he's gonna makeanybody twice as good as they already
are if you have JSN to throw it to.

Clinton (09:25):
Yeah, he, he's a delight to watch there.
And the, you know, we, we didtalk about him a bit- Yeah
but I think he's I think he's just like,you know, I, look, if, if Mike Macdonald
says to the world y- this is actuallya better training camp than last year,
or something like that, paraphrasing a

Phil (09:40):
bit- You can't stop him.

Clinton (09:43):
He's like saying you can't stop him because he- Yeah,
that's, that's pretty good, guys.
And, you know, and we still discuss,okay, cool, but is he actually gonna
approach 1,800 yards this year?
And, and the, I thinkthe answer is who cares?

Phil (09:51):
Yeah.

Clinton (09:52):
I don't care.
You know, because he's just not- Do yards

Adam (09:53):
matter?

Clinton (09:54):
Not, no, not really.
Like, but I, I'd love to seehim get up to 14 touchdowns and
whatever he does, 14, 1,500 yards.
And I'm not saying he's destined forthat, I'm just saying, guys, there's
more mouths to feed, and there was a widereceiver that they like to feature quite
a bit in this episode- Yeah, they do
who, talk about partsthat got me excited, guys.
Number 87.

(10:14):
I mean, I'm a little smitten.
They, he might be my…
Brandan, I might need his jersey like youhave the, the Karen Williams jersey.

Brandan (10:20):
Yeah, the, we, we're starting to develop the preseason crush and,
he did have the most receivingyards, the most receptions of the
receivers in the preseason game.
Plus we get some of his backstory.
We get to see him workingon his real estate license.
I know I saw Ryan911 saying,y- you know, is this, is he just

(10:40):
this year's preseason wide receivercrush who will inevitably get cut?
Well, we, we no, we don't wanna seethat, but it was also cool to get that
backstory part, Adam, where, yousaw him talking about how he joined as
a practice squad guy late in the season.
Mm-hmm.
And then they had the shot ofhim, y- with the handing
around the Super Bowl trophy.

(11:01):
So I, I think that was probably somethingi- unless you are deep into it and paying
really extra close attention to thepractice squad guys throughout the season,
probably a lot of us that was news.
That, we hadn't really seenFoster, contribute even, on
the practice squad side of things.
And so it was, it was kind of cool toget that little nugget in this episode.

Adam (11:23):
I, I don't know about you guys, but I knew that Montorie Foster Jr.
was teaching, algebraas a substitute teacher.
I can't believe you guys didn't know.
I mean, geez.
I have no idea what he was doingthroughout his time when he was away
from the team and then called back.
But I do, do think it's super interestingto kinda get a sense of what it's
like for those guys on the back endof the roster in, to bounce around a

(11:46):
little bit, to be on the roster, offthe roster, what that means, how you
have to fill in the blanks when you'renot collecting that NFL check, right?
And the only thing aboutthe Montorie Foster Jr.
story that I look at it is I wonder ifTyler Lockett's like, "Get off my lawn."
Like, with the real estate stuff.
I feel that.
He's like, "I'm the wide receiverwho does the real estate.
Like, you can find another thing.

(12:06):
Go be a barista.
I don't

Brandan (12:07):
care."
Well, he, he's doing a good job, Phil, if, he's keeping Montorie Foster out of…
Because he said he hadn't had a sale yet.
So maybe- Mm … maybe he needs togo to Tyler for a little advice.

Phil (12:17):
He's helping Tyler out quite a bit.
Do you guys feel like these storiesare setting us up for sadness?
Like the Uso story is just-Yeah … destined to be a Shakespearean
tragedy right before our eyes.
I like a lot of the behind thescenes, like what Schneider's up to.
You never think about it, but they'reprobably checking the, how many people
showed up, the we- all that stuff.
He's the president.
You're just gettinglittle behind the scenes.

(12:37):
But, like, the mom of Uso and, like,some of this, and getting to know these
guys, and struggling in real estate.
What's gonna happen ifthey don't make the team?
And you kinda know how the story might go.

Clinton (12:49):
Yeah.
I think, but I think Foster has a le-very legit shot to make this team.
And this is, and this is not just'cause this episode, but because I've
got eyes, and I've watched him, and Isee him in, in camp, and I see film.
And he's…
And look, Cooper Kupp is, thecamera's on Cooper, and he goes
over and starts pointing at him.
Yeah.
And Foster's, Foster's like, bas-basically like, "No, no, dude, I'm
trying to stay under the radar."

(13:09):
Like, I, I, my, my…
What I took from that littlescene was not, "Oh, I'm humble."
And maybe he is, maybe he isn't.
But more like he likes where he is, helikes the room he's in, Montorie Foster.
Yeah.
And maybe he doesn't want all the, theglow up right now because- What about

Phil (13:23):
his competition?
What about his competition?

Clinton (13:25):
Well, look, right, right now, I think right now he's
probably wide receiver six Andthat's, and that's pretty good

Phil (13:33):
Maybe

Clinton (13:34):
I- I

Phil (13:35):
mean,

Clinton (13:35):
he has- It could be, right?
I mean, he's- He has a couple of

Phil (13:37):
Whites

Clinton (13:39):
Well, I think Cody's in there, I think Bobo's in there, and then you
got Horton, and that's three, right?
And so- Horton's

Phil (13:45):
four, Bobo's five- Four,

Clinton (13:47):
right,

Phil (13:47):
right
…Clinton: so then you
got, you got the Whites and you got Foster- White,

Clinton (13:49):
White's six.
Yeah, okay.
So maybe he's seven, yeah.
So he's gonna have to fi- find hisway onto this roster hopefully.
How many wide receiversdo you usually keep, guys?
Six?
Five or six.
Yeah.

Phil (13:58):
Five or six.

Clinton (13:59):
Well, look, I, he's- And we

Brandan (14:00):
got the quarterback See, you're setting your heart, you're setting
your heart up to be broken, Clinton.
That's why.
Yeah.
That's, that's just the way it goes.
Well, he's a good player.
But, he is a good player.
He's a good player.
And I think we'd be happy to havehim on the practice squad, too.

Clinton (14:10):
Yeah.

Adam (14:11):
Oh, sure.
I mean, if you're able to stash a guylike that there, it, it would be great.
And, you know, one of the interestingthings about Foster is when you're
talking about him, and they pointedout in the episode, is kind of the
boom-bustiness of kind of his play.
Yeah.
Like, just in the preseason gamealone, let's put the drop aside.
The touchdown that he scores, he's onthe right-hand side of the formation and

(14:32):
runs a route where he kind of bends itoutside just a little bit and tries to
get the DB leading and then cuts backinside, late and then gets the ball.
And then what's interesting-It was tipped What's that?

Phil (14:45):
It was tipped, right?

Adam (14:46):
It was tipped and he still managed to catch it.
Yeah.
That was great, but he didget the separation there.

Phil (14:49):
Yeah.

Adam (14:50):
But then go to the fourth down play, Jalen Milroe on the goal
line in his one passing attempt downthere, and it's the same exact route,
just from the left-hand side of thefield, and he gets bullied all over
the place, and that's why Milroecan't pull the trigger on that- Yeah
and ends up having to scramblearound 'cause he doesn't have time
to get to a second read becausethe pressure was on him so quickly.

(15:11):
And that really does illustrate whereFoster is right now in his game.
Has some moments of greatness, hassome downsides where you're like, man,
the consistency's not right there yet.
And we've said on this podcastforever, the difference between
bad and good and good and great isconsistency when you get to this level.
Mm-hmm.
They're all talented, and so that'sgonna be his biggest challenge.

Phil (15:31):
And Adam, you mentioned Milroe.
What about coaches trying to call outMilroe to run the rock a little bit more?
How'd you like that sectionof the, of the show?
And then how'd you like Milroe'sresponse in the game to what
coach was calling him out to do?

Adam (15:45):
I love it because- Okay … it, it shows a couple things to me.
One- Yeah … it shows that JalenMilroe is like, "Look, I can't
live, with just my legs.
I can't live- Yeah
that way and be an NFL quarterback,and so I'm gonna work like hell
to keep that Ferrari in the garageto tune my other skills," right?
And then you got the coachesbeing like, "All right, I got you.
That's great.

(16:05):
go ahead and let itrip a little bit more."
I would love to be able to look at aguy that's raw like Milroe coming out of
college and have him have the seriousnessof wanting to play quarterback position
the right way, that he's willing toput that unbelievable skill set to
the side to work on the other things.
And then as a coach, you love the ideaof just being like, "All right, cool.

(16:29):
Now let it rip."
And, like, that's awesome.
You did see some great stuffwith his legs in the preseason.
I actually thought his preseasonperformance was quite productive.
And really, y- the one narrative wehear about Milroe over and over again
that people can't seem to get overbecause they don't seem to watch stuff
is, well, he's just inaccurate,and he'll be forever inaccurate.

Phil (16:50):
No, it's the processor.
It's the processor he'sgotta upgrade somehow.
He's gotta

Adam (16:54):
upgrade that processor.
And he's getting betterthere, and I, I don't know.
There's a lot of reps where he didn'teven have a chance to process, like

Phil (16:59):
in the- First read, he's good.
First read, he's good.
Right.
I wanna see multiple reads.
Yeah.

Adam (17:02):
Yeah, and that, well, me too, but like- You need

Brandan (17:04):
offensive line to give you multiple reads That'd be nice.
Yeah.

Adam (17:07):
Yeah, and you have to have separation to give
you multiple reads as well.
And you need JSN

Phil (17:11):
on the field.
That would help, I'm sure.
Yeah.

Adam (17:12):
Right?
Yeah, all those things.

Phil (17:13):
Yeah.

Adam (17:14):
Like, I, I thought Milroe's preseason performance, he
left very little meat on the bone.
There was one play in the two-minutedrive, at the end, or end of the
first half, where he missed, he missed twoguys that he, he coulda gotten the ball
to and decided to run for minimal gain.
But it does show, like, just hisdevelopment throughout the show and-
Yeah … how they're saying, like,"Look, you also have this gift.

(17:34):
Go ahead, use it."

Phil (17:35):
One- Yeah … one offensive tackle and one cardboard cutout makes
it kinda tough to play quarterback.
It,

Clinton (17:40):
it- I thought, so I, it's just interesting to hear you talk
about the, the Ferrari part, guys,and I, and I wonder what others think.
When I heard them talking about that,maybe I just, may- my interpretation was
they wanted him to run the ball more.

Phil (17:52):
Yes.

Clinton (17:52):
When they were saying let it rip,- Yeah … to me it wasn't
like rip with- They did … the arm.
It was- No, no,

Adam (17:56):
it's

Clinton (17:56):
run … run, run more.

Phil (17:58):
Yeah.

Clinton (17:58):
So I'm kinda, I guess I'm a little shocked to hear that you're, you
were like, "Oh, that, that's actuallyreally good from your perspective."
No, he

Phil (18:03):
liked, he liked his response.
Adam liked Milroe's response

Clinton (18:06):
to me.
Gotcha.
To push back and say that he'skind of reserving that for, okay.
'Cause I thought they were like, "Yougotta run the ball more, more, more."
And the way the whole thing forme was the narrative was shaped.
Like, now this is a, I'm,this is strictly narrative.
Like, this is outside Seattleor maybe, maybe chunks of what
Seattle Seahawks fans think, too.
But it was really geared for, like,he's only a running quarterback.

(18:27):
I didn't think this did, did Milroeany favors from, like, that- painting.
I'm not sure if you guys havea different take on that.
That was my take.
I think a dude watching it in, like,Kansas City, he's like, "Oh, see?
Milroe can't throw the ball,"because he watched this.
I'm not, I'm not sure I like that.

Brandan (18:42):
Hmm.
Yeah, I, I didn't get thattakeaway of it at all.
I, I, I think part of what wasrecognized, 'cause, we, we saw
in the chat here William, saying,"I, I love 21-yard gains," which is
a quote from- Yeah … Mike Macdonald.
Oh, yeah.
And part of the reason why ispick out the most explosive

(19:02):
play from the preseason game.
It was Jalen Milroe running the football.
It was- Yeah … he had a thirddown that he was able to pick up
with his legs, and then he was ableto pick up a 20 some yard play.
I think with, with the 21-yard gain,I think they were pointing to the,
the Fan Fest game at the stadium.
But then- Mm-hmm … you know, he hadthe, the 20-something yard gain- Yep
in the preseason game too.

(19:23):
So, they like that explosiveaspect and, yeah, that…
He was the only explosive part that wesaw during the preseason game this week.

Phil (19:35):
Yeah.
I think that, that Coach Mikeis seen as a D coordinator.
We hate it when guys can take offand run the ball and get 21 yards.
Yeah.
And as your coach, I love 21-yard gains.
I also, just one, I won't go rambling on.
I do like that the coaching staffknows what his- Trump card is,
and that's that he can take off.

(19:55):
They don't have that on those othertwo guys, and so they're thinking,
"Don't forget to use your card thatwill allow you to dominate and terrify
D coordinators on the other side."
And I also think that means theway they design plays, it's not
like they're forgetting whatkind of quarterback they have.
It's not like we're justdesigning a Sam offense.
I think they know when Milroegets out there that they'll

(20:15):
have, they'll have a few optionsthat are a little bit different.
I, I kind of felt that from thecoaches, which was encouraging.

Adam (20:21):
Yeah, and you saw in the preseason game on a lot of the runs
they had a lot of that kind of, like,scrape action when he's, you know,
in the mesh point with the runningback and with the threat that he
would hold onto the football and,and go out- Yeah … the backside.
So it's something that they werethreatening the defense with
play call-wise throughout thegame when Milroe was in there.

(20:41):
And I, I think that does, youknow, show to Fleury's adaptation to
each of the different quarterbacks,and I think that's great.
In terms, Clinton, you said it'snot a good look for Milroe maybe,
like, nation- nationally or to, people that aren't following
Milroe on the regular basis.
I, I honestly think it's a greatlook because the thing that you
wouldn't want, what you wouldn'twant, is for the coaches to be in

(21:03):
the quarterback room and being like,"Why are you bailing from the pocket?
Don't bail from the pocket here.
Like, you're bailing from a totallyclean pocket, you're screwing this up.
You're Shedeur Sanders."
Mm.
Like, that's, that's what you don't want.
And so that, the problem that theyhave with Milroe being like, "All
right, it's time to, time to let it r-rip a little bit and use your legs,"
like, that's not much of a problem.
That's a big upside there.

Phil (21:25):
And none of them knew what Moore Cowbell meant.
I don't even know if Coach Mike-

Adam (21:29):
I was disappointed.

Phil (21:29):
I don't even know if Coach Mike knew.
He's like, "That's just your card.
It's your card."

Brandan (21:33):
Man, how old is Moore Cowbell at this point?
He's 10.
Almost as old as, Devon Witherspoon'sgonna be by the time he gets done-
with his contract, which,-Yeah … I think Mike Macdonald or,
or John Schneider referred to himbeing older than baseball, by
the time he's done with his contract.
And, and Devon Witherspoon gettinghis contract in this episode was
finally a, a storyline that paidoff from episode one, Clinton.

Clinton (21:55):
Yeah, there was two things about that segment besides
Spoon being extremely happy andvery rich, and good for him.
But, the, the moment, themoment that stood out to me is when
it was Mike and Spoon and John, andSchneider just gives him the kudos to-
Yeah … Spoon saying, "You handledthis basically perfectly," essentially.
Which, which we've been talking about.
It's like no drama, thedude's here every single day.

(22:18):
There's not a lot of BS about wantingthis- Yeah … this n- newfangled
structured contract that escalatesthroughout the, all these years.
Nothing like that.
So f- for y- we know John'sbeen doing this for what?
This is year 15 for John?
Year 16?
I told there'd be no math,but that sounds about right.

Adam (22:34):
Yeah.

Clinton (22:36):
All right.
Something like that.
It's 16 at least- Yeah … because yeah,2010 would've been- I think it's 16.
14, yeah.
Yeah, 14 with, with Pete, right?
And two, and this isyear three with Macdonald.
Wow.
So I think it's year 17.
Whatever.
No math.
We, we know J- we knowJohn's done this a lot.
A lot, a lot, a lot.
So, and I don't think it's becausethe camera's on with HBO, he
doesn't have to say that to Spoon.

(22:56):
No.
So I thought that was very, veryauthentic, guys, and something like
you handled this, basically fromhis perspective as the leader of
the entire organization, you know,you handled this as precisely as
you could have as a human being.
And now you just got $100 million

Adam (23:11):
guaranteed.
Congratulations.
Yeah.
I love it, man.
Good luck.
Happy Spoon makes for a happy Adam.
I'll tell you that right now.
I like that.
I hope, Brandan, you're feeling better.
I know you were, stressingover this, Spoon deal a
little bit, so that's good.
But probably my second favorite partof this episode, outside of the JSN,
shots that they were doing, was, getting to hear John Schneider

(23:31):
on the phone with an, with an agent.
Like- Mm … doing actual, like…
And I know they've already negotiatedthe whole contract for the Arnold
stuff and, like, everything like that.
But being able to kind of hear whatthose convers- I've always wondered,
like, what does that look like?
Like, when, you know, John callsagent, the agent calls John, and
like, you know, what, does…
How contentious does it get?
Like, or how much do they agree on?

(23:52):
Or like, how much of it is a handshakedeal before it gets done on paper,
and how much is that trusted?

Brandan (23:57):
And how much is it them talking over one another?
Because it was a lot of that, too.

Phil (24:01):
Yes.

Adam (24:02):
Sure.
Yeah.

Brandan (24:03):
And, and John on the treadmill for half of the episode.

Phil (24:06):
That was the thing.
Are you hearing John's treadmillevery time you called John?
I'm wondering, do you hear that machinein the back when you're talking to him?
Just a- wheezing.

Brandan (24:14):
Yeah.
Terrion Arnold, that portion featuredheavily into the ep- the episode from
the start, whether it was, y- talkingto Sherm on the, you know- Oh, yeah
between the head coach and Sherm,whether it was the, the GM portion.
we never actually saw him appearin the episode, but Phil, where
does it have you at with the,with the Terrion Arnold piece?

Phil (24:40):
With the Arnold piece, I kinda like the way Mike's
handling it with everybody.
His professionalism, and John's.
Like, they're just comfortable,the way they're talking to Spoon,
the way they're talking to Sherm,the way they talk to the players.
I love the authenticity that came in atthe show, with the show at the beginning.
That's just an awesome thing to learn.
Like, I used to try not tolose and now I'm trying to win.
It means the same thing mathematically,but it's an entire different mindset.

(25:02):
I feel like Mike's approach to theArnold thing in general has been,
this is a player that we could use.
It's not much risk if we get it.
And I get the feeling that theychecked everything out about the
kind of guy he was, so that leadsme to think they already know the
player that he is would be a fit.
So it was all about determining the kindof guy, and the stuff they heard about

(25:22):
the kind of guy, John was on board.
He already is like, "This is oneof the best interviews we ever had
with a player going into the draft."
So he already felt that, thenhe just got the reinforcement.
So they would love to have him.
If odds are we're not gonna get himfor a while because of legal stuff,
but you can tell that they're onboard with it, based on his play.
So as a player, I think thatwasn't even a question about it

Adam (25:45):
Yeah, what is the timeline for that?
Because you hear, like, thecommissioner exempt list is, could
be applied here when he, when

Phil (25:51):
he signs.
He has courts come up onOctober 5th, but that could be
the start of it, so then they

Adam (25:55):
might- Or it could get pushed back, like-

Phil (25:56):
Yeah.

Adam (25:57):
No.
Yeah.

Brandan (25:58):
Yeah.
Well, I think part of it too, it couldalso be, having an agreement…
Because you heard them talking abouthow this was a long-term thing.
They were looking at it as a, as along-term type play, and one of the things
that could benefit the team is if Arnoldwere to wait until after the first week
of the season to then sign, because thenhis, salary cap, he only gets,…

(26:21):
His salary cap I think would only countfor the games that he were to actually
play- Yes … rather than, having,the full contract be part of the cap.
Which is part of the concerntoo, if the, he were to be…
'Cause as soon as he signs with a team,then that's gonna make him eligible to
go on the commissioner's exempt list,and then if you're, if, if a player

(26:45):
goes on the commissioner exempt list,whatever you're paying that player,
that, then that full contract wouldbe susceptible to the team's cap.
And I'm sure that i- i- if they findthis is a reasonable fit, if Arnold
finds it, his agent finds it a, a goodfit, the Seahawks want it, then maybe
they're seeing this as something that…
And, and we saw, I think, Ian Rapoporttweeted out saying that, that it could

(27:07):
take a while- Yeah … for the contract.
So it, that could be…
Those could be all components of why- Yeah… it could take a little bit longer.
'Phil: Cause once it's signed, it does count on the cap.
Right.
Even if he's on the exempt list.
But yeah, if you just keep kindapushing it back, that's crafty.

Clinton (27:21):
Yeah.
Ho- well hopefully, look, obviouslyyou gotta get o- g- get over the
legal hurdles, hopefully he does.
And if, if he could be here halfwaythrough the season or something like
that, and be a, be a big-time contributor.
And really from the agent's perspective,which I saw some comments about
the agent in there, which was coolhearing, you know, hearing her.
But it, it seems like a career and, like,life reboot that they're looking for.

(27:42):
Again, back to culture.
Hey, she's like, "Hey," I mean,I don't think she's selling John
hard, like hard in the sense of,"Oh my God, he's got 1,000 offers."
Like, "Hey, he's got multiple offers.
This is a first-rounder.
He's about to go somewhere forbasically, you know, vet minimum money.
And of all the places he could go,John, he wants to be in Seattle."
Yeah.
So again, back to culture and back towhat it can do for somebody, and

(28:08):
their career to turn things around.
So that, I think that's just reallya nice cultural moment again.
Yeah,

Brandan (28:13):
I think- One interesting part about this, Adam, is that we saw
the GM talking with Jay Harbaugh, andsaying that had they been in the s- same
situation as a team, as a franchise, theylikely would've done the same thing and
re- released a player like Arnold

Adam (28:29):
Yeah, that is really interesting because then, then
Jay says, "Well, I guess it'sdifferent when you're the second
team, like, the second chance team."
And I mean, I guess maybe monetarilyit's different because you have
the opportunity- Hmm … topick him up for a lot cheaper.
But why is it different?
Like, I, that, that didn't-Yeah … make a lick of sense to me.
I thought he said, I thoughthe- Like, same player,

(28:51):
same charges, same everything.
And he said- Wait,

Phil (28:54):
watch.
I think John corrected himself andsaid, he kind of indicated we might
research or we might have handledit a s- a tad bit differently.
I think he-

Adam (29:02):
Okay
…Phil: after he realized what Jay was saying, I thought he ended
it with saying, "We might have donethis just a little bit differently."
Which I don't know what that means.
I

Clinton (29:09):
think he does say something like that.
Yeah, I think he

Phil (29:10):
does, like- Like are we gonna wait and get more information?
He said he knew why they did it, isbecause, "Oh, this looks really bad
and the report looks really bad.
That's why they got rid of him."

Clinton (29:17):
Right.

Phil (29:17):
And then he started to understand what Jay was asking, and I
think he kind of pseudo-corrected himself.
Maybe I misheard that

Clinton (29:24):
I think you're right actually.
There was one more part for me duringthe, during the, Terry and
Arnold piece that I thought wasat least good to see, and that was
seeing Robbie Ouzts in the room.
'Cause at the very…
Ex- I mean, Robbie Ouzts issaying character-wise, good
dude, et cetera, et cetera.
But the very end of the Robbie Ouztspart, John goes, "Are you okay?"
And he hugs him and goes,"Yeah, yeah, I'm good."

(29:46):
He's

Phil (29:47):
huge.

Clinton (29:47):
So Kon- Konica…
Well, he's huge, but this isalready, this is already after
he's been put on IR for the season-Yeah, I know … with his neck.
So, like, just, just for me, seeingRobbie Ouzts, like, as a dude mentally
seeming like he's sharp and he's,he's got, he's gotta do his IR stuff.
obviously this is not him beingcleared to play football in 2027, but I
like seeing that, Adam, to be like, allright, he's there, still there present

(30:09):
with the team, still being useful, andwhen he was asked how he's doing, I think
he was like, "How are you doing up here?"
It was like, "Yeah, I'm, I'm good."
So I, I took a littlesolace in that, Adam.

Adam (30:18):
Yeah, I thought that was interesting, and I also wondered is
that what player/GM relationshipslooked like 25 years ago?
I, I doubt it.

Brandan (30:27):
No way.

Adam (30:28):
No way,

Brandan (30:29):
right?
There's no way Mike Holmgren washugging on players like that.
It's

Phil (30:32):
the

Brandan (30:33):
John

Adam (30:33):
way.
No way.
Like, y- Ron Wolf was, like, puttinghis arm around a guy who just went on
IR and being like, "Hey, you all right?"
Like, I doubt it.
And I think that that's a goodchange for the league, and maybe
that is specific to Seattle as well.

Phil (30:47):
Yeah,

Adam (30:48):
I think maybe.
but maybe, maybe it'sa little more league-wide.
I, I don't know.
I'm obviously not in therooms, but, I did…
Th- that, that's the thought thatoccurred to me is like, man, I, I
don't think this was the norm in- Yeah
NFL football for a long time.

Phil (31:01):
The way Spoon was in the room with Mike and John
I thought was just awesome.
They absolutely looked like theywere totally on the same level.
It was really cool.
Like, great player, head coach,star, one of the greatest GMs of
all time, same room, and they'rejust totally just on the same team.
Yeah.
Yep.

Brandan (31:18):
Yeah.
Very

Adam (31:18):
cool.
And all the, all the rest of the teamthat celebrated Spoon when he came in.

Phil (31:22):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Adam (31:22):
You know, for his contract.
Oh, he's beloved.
I think that's awesome.
Yeah.
There's a lot of guys that watchother people's pockets and count
other people's money out there.
Yeah.
They, they're really good at it.
Well, you heard it

Brandan (31:30):
too.
I think they said 100 milguaranteed to him, so obviously-
Yeah, yeah … that was a, a well-Happy for him … noticed point.
Yeah.

Adam (31:37):
Yeah.
Well, I mean, look, you, you mightthrow out the 100 mil, but you could
still be, like, legitimately happy.
There's a lot of people that throw out the100 mil and, like, are like, "Oh, yeah?
Like, I'm worth at least that.
What the hell?"
You know?
Yeah.
And get jealous.
That, that happens a lot.

Phil (31:51):
He's beloved.
There's no doubt about it.

Clinton (31:53):
Yeah, and then the ve- the very end of that segment too, back to Spoon
in the locker room, he whispers somethingto Foster and we don't get to hear it.
Oh, yeah.
Like, he's get- he's being congratulatedthere, and then he says, he's…
People are saying stuff to him.
People are saying stuff to S-Spoon, sta- saying stuff to
Spoon, and he's mostly just like,"Thank you, thank you, thank you."
And he says something in Foster's eara- and I don't, I couldn't hear it.

(32:16):
I was like, "What's he saying?
What the hell's he saying to him?"
But it was, it wasn't just,it was like a, it was a little
longer than, "Hey, a thank you."
Yeah.
I, in my brain, I was like, Ihope he's telling him like, "Hey,
this could be you one day, dude.
Like, you have, you have theskills to be wide receiver one
on the Seahawks at some point."
May- maybe wide receiver two.
I shouldn't go too crazy.

Phil (32:34):
I think

Brandan (32:34):
Spoon's a little- Twistlejacket in chat saying, "Julian Love said Spoon
was the cheapest of them all, so the facthe got all this money makes me laugh."
Go ahead,

Phil (32:41):
Brandan.
Isn't S- isn't Spoon a little bit privatemaybe, and he hasn't really been out there
unless you see a few behind the scenes.
He's starting to realize just how,I think, awesome his personality
is, and that it's built for a star.
I don't think it's gonna go to his head.
I think he's gonna keep doing,being who he is, but he's allowing
everybody to see it a bit more.
I mean, he is just fun.

(33:02):
Everything he does is fun, and he's, nowhe's up doing press conferences and stuff.
Maybe this season's gonna he-just help the world, the whole
NFL world get a more of Spoon,which is good for the NFL and us.

Adam (33:15):
He's definitely more private about his ride.
You didn't get to see anything but the-
like, little corner of thewindow when he got out of there.
Yeah.
He's no Derick Hall in thataspect, that's for sure.
No.
Yeah.

Brandan (33:25):
No, he's, he's definitely a very humble dude.
It, it, I mean, it goes to show you too,the guys who have signed the biggest
contracts this off season, both featuredin this episode with JSN and Devin
Witherspoon, not the type of just overthe top, outgoing type players- Ego
that are, you know, thelook at me type dudes.

Clinton (33:45):
Right, and they're in positions, wide receiver and cornerback,
that you typically, that's exactlywhere you get those type personalities.
And so e- And a

Brandan (33:53):
quarterback with- Yes … Sam Darnold.

Clinton (33:55):
Yeah, so even more to their credit, and this team, it's just…
well, that, which is whatSherman talked about with Mike
at the very beginning, right?
He's like, "Yeah, we all know it'sa different team than the LOB."
but they were kind of gettingaround how, like, why it feels
different out there, and I thinkyou just nailed it, Brandan.

Brandan (34:11):
Well, big congrats to Brady Russell, who we saw- Yeah … has a baby
on the way and was leaving at halftime ofthe preseason game as- Yeah, that was cool
Coach Mike Macdonald was givinghis, preseason halftime speech.
it was interesting to see- Someof the reaction with a preseason loss,
'cause that was another thing thatI've always kinda had a question about,

(34:34):
Adam, is that how do, how, how doesthe locker room really react, and how
does a coach really react when it's apreseason loss versus a preseason win?

Adam (34:46):
Yeah.
E- 'cause you'd wonder if, like,some coaches get in there and
they're just as mad as if they losta pivotal we- week 14 matchup, right?
And not surprising that you saw CoachMike come in there and say, "Look, we
knew e- whether win or lose, w- therewas gonna be things we're gonna work on.
And now we know there's quitea bit to work on," yeah?
Yeah.

(35:06):
And that, kind of a PeteCarroll message almost too, right?
Like, staying on thepositive side of all of it.
And I think that's why Mike has fitin so seamlessly here in Seattle, and
has been able to build on top of whatPete did, rather than have to tear
it down and do his whole new thing.
so, you know, acknowledgingthe fact that, "Yeah, this sucks.
We got things to do, and alsoit's okay because we have

(35:28):
things we can do," you know?
And that, that's a big deal.
And so definitely enjoyed that.
I think the people that take itthe hardest in these preseason losses
are the guys that are within five-Mm … to 10 spots of the bubble, right?
Yes.
Because these wins and lossesand performances, they matter.

Phil (35:48):
Yeah.

Brandan (35:48):
And you saw that a little bit, Phil, with the
Montorie Foster, with the Uso.
Uso, yeah.
Like, they, they did…
Y- y- you got to hear from themafter that game and be like,
"Hey, I gotta work on this."
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, you know, as Montorie Foster'sdad is, is happy for him and
trying to get him fired up, andhe's thinking about the drop.

Phil (36:04):
This was a great job how they did that.
They really brought youinto kinda the sense of it.
You could see Foster's nerves talking onwhat he knew was a national show as he
was kinda h- having a hard time speaking.
But also just how big thismoment is for these guys.
They just have a couple gamesthat they know they get to be in.
Uso gets to take those guys,and he's remembering everything.

(36:25):
He's, he's back there talkingto his buds that are, that are his
current teammates about if theysaw this thing or if they saw that
thing, 'cause every little momenthe knows it's all gonna be reviewed.
And they're, the guys that have alreadymade the team, they're maybe pulling
for him or gonna give him a few tips,so they're right there along with him.
But for him, this is his thing,and, and they're all looking at him.

(36:47):
So yeah, pre-season's all about theseguys that are trying to make at least
the ready squad, no doubt, Clinton.

Clinton (36:53):
Yeah.
The, the last piece of the Uso storyfor me happened earlier in the episode,
and it was when the defensive coach,I don't know his name, so, it,
with the line, like Mills was there.
Right.
The line was all there, right?
And he throws out a line and goes,"Hey, look, when the threes get in,"
he's talking to Uso, he's talkingto others, he's like, "When we get
the threes out there in practice,"he said, "We can't lose 15 to 1."

(37:16):
He threw it, you know, 'cause we,we got that earlier in episode one
when the offense was up 15-1, 16-1,and Macdonald was starting to blow
a gasket, a gasket around that.
And then you saw the performancein the game, guys, and it was
like, well, unfortunately, like,something didn't translate.
Maybe it's just talent, that whenthey get down to those three levels,
which is not gonna be all thatsignificant for the regular season,

(37:37):
but it, it's cool for the story.
they kinda did get bowled overduring the, during the Cowboys game in
that, in that third and fourth quarter.
It, it got, we got gashed later on.
And so I think, I guess the thing It- can take away from it is at least
the coaches are, are, they know it.
They're, they're not Pollyannasabout what's in the room there.
Yeah.
But I, I do wanna see whathappens these next two games.

(38:00):
Can that second and third and fourthtier guys just improve along the d-
defensive line, because, coacheswere calling 'em out, and then
they did not perform all that well.

Adam (38:10):
Well, you think about the threes and the way that they played in the
game, and you're right, they got pushedaround and they gave up a lot of points.
In the preseason you'replaying vanilla schemes, right?
Totally.
You're not getting the full MikeMacdonald dial it up, defensive
genius stuff that they do, and wecan see what a difference that makes.
Even with the starters, if you lookback at Pete's last year, and then

(38:31):
even at the beginning of Mike's firstyear, it was better- Mm … the defense
with pretty much the same personnel.
And then when they made the Ernest Jonestrade, then it really started to
unlock and, and go a little bit further.
So i, I mean that shows you do needsome talent there to make it go.
But I think one of the reasons whymaybe they don't look as good as they
could is you don't have Mike, likedialing it up and putting them in the

(38:55):
types of positions that he would ifthey were out there, say, week four.

Clinton (38:59):
Yeah.

Brandan (38:59):
Right.
You, you're putting him in positionsthat you wanna see what they can do,
i- in certain situations, so.

Clinton (39:07):
Yeah, ki- kind of base, kind of win the, win the 101 without a
stunt, without a h- without help, right?
Right.
So that makes

Phil (39:12):
sense.
But you still can't give up your chest.
I mean, you s- there's some thingsthat are just, you just can't
do, when you're out there.
No matter what the play callis, you have to win your match
up, you have to do proper thingsthat don't allow you to give up.

Brandan (39:22):
Never give up, give up your chest.

Phil (39:24):
You don't.

Adam (39:24):
Yeah, it was my number one advice to my daughter, but,-
At, at, at the end of the day- Ilove it … we're seeing a lot of
comments here about Kupp, here.
And- Coach Kupp.
Coach Kupp, please, please … and,and Jeremy, had, was like,
something about Kupp being inthere with the, the quarterbacks.
I'm starting to wonder, does Kuppever hang out with the wide receivers?
Or does he think he's a quarterback?

(39:45):
We saw-

Brandan (39:45):
Does he ever have the side that you carry?
We saw him in the wide receiver roomtoo, and, Whistle Jack i- in
the chat saying, "Can we get a shout-outthat Cooper Kupp looks way better- Facts
without the dirb- dirty hobo beard."
Yeah, that's,- He wears the dirty

Phil (39:56):
hobo shirt, though.
And that gets him in the QB room.

Clinton (40:00):
Look, I

Brandan (40:01):
th- this is- Our offensive coordinator stole, his hobo beard.

Clinton (40:04):
Well, the good news is that if, if Flurry goes on to be as
excellent as Kubiak was towards theend of the year and the playoff run,
and Flurry gets to win a chip yearone, and he gets extracted, well,
guys, we, we know who the next OC is.
He's already in the room.
He might actually be a player coach.
He's got, you know, more time left.
But it, this is a beautifulaudition for Cooper Kupp to roll

(40:25):
right into coaching once he's done.
And not that he probably neededit, but it's evident to, I think,
the, the entire NFL world now.

Brandan (40:32):
He doesn't need the money.
We do get to see some depth coachesthroughout this Hard Knocks-

Clinton (40:36):
Yeah
…Brandan: series, right?
and I'm curious to see if,and you don't have to know their
names, but position-wise, i- hasanybody developed a, a coaching crush?

Adam (40:47):
I'm still all in on Hammond, the running back coach.
I love the way he talked to those guys.

Brandan (40:50):
Thomas F-bomb Hammond is Adam's favorite.
That's not a shocker.

Adam (40:54):
Yeah, and because it's, because it is, been scientifically
proven, there's studies out there, themore you cuss, the more honest you are.
It's just, that's, that is what it is.
Like, i- it's a correlated thing.
So that coach-

Phil (41:05):
I thought it was he just couldn't come up with real words to say,
so he just filled it in over and overbecause he's like, "I wanna say something,
so this is the word that I say."

Adam (41:14):
I mean, like maybe you're just jealous.
I don't know.
Like, that, that's a, those are alot of F-bombs that were well done.
It's not like he was out therelike, you know, screwing up the cuss
words like in Bad Boys, you know?
Like- … I don't know if you guysremember that scene, but yeah.

Brandan (41:27):
Yeah, he was using them appropriately.
I, I felt like that, fit inwith the, the vernacular well.
I, I like, Frisman Jackson,the wide receivers coach.
Yeah, that's a good call.
He's, he's the guy that I think- Oh,yeah … I'm connecting to the most.
He's pretty great.
I would like Mike, that's the easy one.
He's the,

Phil (41:42):
he's the

Brandan (41:43):
guy on the series.
I mean, he's the star ofthe Hard Knocks series.

Phil (41:45):
I wanna go in a weird route, and this guy has said very few
things, but it's AD, and here's why.
Whenever somebody walks up totalk to AD it's like, "I've got
something he's gonna appreciate."
Like, you know he's a good listenerand he's a gr- You can just tell by
the way they speak to him that he'sa great mind, and it's almost like if

(42:05):
you're saying it to AD, you're checkingto see if what you're seeing is legit.
Just, like every time- Mm … thatsomeone talks to him, the way they're
interested and his body language to mesays a lot about what kind of thinker
the other coaches consider him to be.

Adam (42:22):
Yeah.
Love that.
We better enjoy this now because this isthe last year of Aden Durde as a Seahawk.
He will be a head coach somewhere.
Yeah, I was

Brandan (42:28):
gonna say, I hate that answer because- Yeah … this is featuring
Aden Durde as,- Am I wrong though?
Am I wrong?
… a future coach.

Adam (42:34):
You're not.
No, you're not wrong at all.
It is interesting.
Like, he does seem to have a wisdomthat everybody kinda seems to
gravitate towards, and just be like,"Yeah, I'm, I'm not crazy, right?"
And then like, maybe it's just 'cause he'sBritish and like, you know, when he says
yes back in a British accent you're like,"Oh, well that sounds more official."
Mm.
Like, yeah.
Though I do think it's interestingthough, that we've gotten

(42:55):
basically nothing of Flurry.
Like, how can that be the case?
That's true.

Brandan (42:59):
Yeah.
What the heck?

Clinton (43:00):
That's, that's, I-

Adam (43:00):
Yeah
…Clinton: it's funny, we're going through all these names with different dudes.
I love the, love the Frismancall-out, love the Durte call-out.
Yeah, that's a great point, Adam.
Like, this is ep- three episodes in withan OC, we talked about it last time being
like, hey, probably a really, reallygood sign that the sky's not falling.
Like, the sky's not falling,that the operation looks smooth.
you know, that the quarterbacksseemingly look really on time.

(43:25):
And from what we could gleanfrom, you know, slow spinning
balls and stuff like that.
But it's kind of a cool point though.
There's, I- is, is Flurryjust terrible on camera?
It didn't, didn't seem to be whenhe was in front of- Maybe him.
There's maybe him.
Maybe.
Maybe.
Maybe let the world- He's one of
the biggest stories of the year.
I don't care how bad he is

Clinton (43:42):
on camera.
I, I know.
Like, come on, like.
Yeah, we've had

Brandan (43:44):
more Jay Harbaugh than we've had

Clinton (43:45):
of,- Yeah.
I understand that.
But I think it's great.
I told him- I think it's excellentpoint that we've gotten- Yeah
so little Flurry so far.
And again, I guess my- my Occam'srazor mind goes to, there's just
not a lot of narrative that they-He's boring as hell- Well, maybe-
…Brandan: and they don't wanna put him on
TV.
May- maybe it's, it's more justlike, you know, when your offensive
linemen do their job in thegame, you don't hear about them.

(44:06):
You know, and he's running hisoperation smoothly in practice, and
he's not bombastic, and thereforehe's not getting camera time.
And maybe that's a really goodthing for our Seahawks, g- is
I guess what I'm getting at.

Brandan (44:17):
Not enough F-bombs coming out of his mouth.
For

Clinton (44:19):
each-

Adam (44:19):
Yeah.
In the offense.
Maybe it's a conscious effort, too.
Maybe he doesn't want to bein the spotlight right now and
have any other distractionsthat might come out of that- No.
Yeah … as he's being a firsttime offensive coordinator and
first time play caller ever.

Clinton (44:30):
Because he wants to stay here for many, many years.
That's why, Adam.
I like it.
Thank you.
Maybe

Phil (44:34):
he asked for that.
Yeah, maybe he asked for that.
He's like, "I'm trying to getsettled in with being an OC, and I
wanna be careful while I'm tryingto teach my brand-new offense."
"I wanna be careful that I'm givingaway secrets to the entire NFL.
So I know you're doing this show.
That's great.
Can all you guys carry this?
And by the way, where'sLeslie Fr- Frazier?
I thought we'd see a lot more of him."

Brandan (44:51):
Yeah, we get a l- most sideline shots of him talking to Coach
Mike and, and that's about it, right?
speaking of Coach Mike, we didsee, one bit that I wanted to
get, folks' take on, and that wasright at the top of the episode where
you had Coach Mike talking about theswitch in mentality from the team going
from, a not to lose mentality- Yes

(45:14):
to going to a, a winningm- a go win mentality.
And it's gonna be interestingto see how that carries over
then into this season, Phil.

Phil (45:24):
Yeah, I love that part.
I, I alluded to it earlier, 'causeit was one of my favorite things.
I love that sometimes you can saysomething that word-wise, if you were
gonna do math-wise, it's the same thing.
It's like a counterbalance.
But if you push down on one side,it kind of results in something
differently in how you approachit, just, just by angles and such.

(45:44):
And so trying to get your mentalangles to be more from, "I don't
wanna lose this thing," to, "We'regonna go take this thing," it's
definitely a thing when you're boxing.
But when you think about football, Imean, the game's won in the trenches.
It's very similar to boxing.
And if you're sitting there constantlytrying to not lose instead of go
win, that mentality, is, is gonnapay negative dividends if you're

(46:08):
constantly trying to not lose the rep.
I mean, I'm a little worried aboutUso being that way, to be honest.
He needs to g- he needs tocapture that a little bit.
And as great of mind as Mike Macdonaldwas to figure out, "I'm trying as
a new coach to not ruin this thing,to try to not get fired like so many
before me," and then the next yearsay, "Hey, that wasn't the way to be,"
and look what happened when he decidedlet's go win versus let's not lose.

(46:32):
He didn't stop winning afterwe l- barely lost to the Rams.
We won all the way through to Super Bowl.
th- there's, there'ssomething about that.
There's just something about affectingyour thinking and pointing it

Adam (46:45):
Yeah, no doubt about it.
And I think that's a really importantmessage for the young guys and
the, the rookies and the undraftedguys trying to make a, a squad.
It's like, "Look, man,like, make mistakes.
You know, move fast and breakthings," like the tech guys, right?
Like- Yeah … that, that's kindof the, the mindset there, and
I do think it probably is morebeneficial to operate that way in

(47:08):
this sort of space than to not to.
And, I hope for Uso's sake, maybe thatdoes, kinda flip a switch for him.

Clinton (47:15):
I, I thought that piece when, when they were talking to Milroe
in the room about letting it rip, I wasthinking about the beginning of the show.
I, I- Hmm … in my mind they weretying those things back together.
Yeah.
'Cause I thought what, what I wrotedown for the first note, I put, I put
episode three and Mike said his thing,and I wrote the words high trust.
Like, the environment he's creating-Mm … is high trust 'cause he's being
very vulnerable, vulnerable about,"Hey, this is what I did year one kinda

(47:37):
wrong, or I wish I could do different,and here's how I changed that and
where I want you to be mentally."
And Adam, to your point about whetherit's go fast and break stuff, it is
the, it's the o- it's the okayness that,you know, you still, you still gotta,
you gotta take your shots, and if youmiss, it's A-okay as long as you're…
That's actually what, what he talkedabout after the game was over, about

(47:59):
the level of, it's like, "Hey, we knowit's a pre-season game, and, but we
know the type of team we want to be.
Regardless of the outcome of this s-you know, pre-season thing, it's fine.
But we, we have to be betterat becoming who we are," right?
So I think they actually wove thatall now in retrospect an hour later.
I think all those thingswere purposely put in.

(48:19):
I think they were kind of the samenarrative that, that they put throughout.

Phil (48:22):
I missed my main point, Brandan.
I wanted to say this.
All right.
Y- J- And I, and real quick, do you-

Clinton (48:28):
Love

Phil (48:28):
it … feel more energy when you're feeling positive or
when you're thinking negative?
Do you have more energy- Oh, positive for

Adam (48:34):
sure … when you,

Phil (48:34):
okay.
Yeah.
So-

Adam (48:35):
Wow,

Phil (48:36):
really?
Like if you're, if you're attackingin war- Okay … if you're
attacking in war, you're gonnago take them down versus not die.
So when you go with your swordout, you're gonna go take, you're
like, "Ah, we're riled up," versus,"I gotta make sure we don't die
and that we don't lose the city."
So when you're attacking and when you'rethinking, "Here's how I'm going to win.
I'm a sprinkler.
I'm turning this thing green.
I'm not keeping it from brown," I'mmore excited to pop up and send the

(48:59):
water all around, right, Brandan?
But, as a human, when you'reexcited about taking on the day
versus not losing the day, youjust handle, you feel lighter.
You handle things so much better.

Brandan (49:08):
I don't know.
The way Adam reacted,maybe he's different.
Maybe we need to be harder onAdam and talk about how he's a
bum and, he's about to get-

Adam (49:15):
Absolutely.
1,000%.
Okay, like, Pete Carroll'sold phrase used to be you have
to learn the learners, right?
Yeah.
And like, if I had had one shredof athletic ability in my life and
coulda been in a Seahawks camp,like, if they asked me like what
I needed, it would be ride my ass.
Look, I'll tell you right now, like-I definitely am more productive
and get to another level when I'mmore in that negative head space of

(49:39):
like- Huh … this is unacceptableand this is gonna change now.
Like, that, that is what gets me going.
The idea of like, "Oh, everything's great.
I'm gonna do even better- It's not-
like, shoot my shot."
Like, no, that's notwhere I wanna be at all.
Like, I, I need that angst.

Brandan (49:55):
Yeah.
It, it's not, I think Phil's notgoing to everything's great part,
but- No, no, no … this is our goal.
We are s- this good that weare going to accomplish it.
Now let's go run through a wall to getit because we know that's who we are.

Adam (50:07):
Yeah.
Yes.
I, I, the, it's the, it's the pressureof, like, a deadline, the pressure
of failure- Mm-hmm … the pressureof all of that, that- makes me feel
like, I can go out there andmaybe even need to take that risk.
Like, that unleashes me totake that risk because, like-

Phil (50:26):
Who is that?
…Adam: everything's to lose.
That's Clinton.
Okay.
It's like, which three…
I know all three of you havethis- … this Patsy Yonkers podcast.
I can't talk and

Clinton (50:35):
type at the same time.
Who typed that in?
I did.
It's, it's The Lego Movie, guys.
Come on, The Lego Movie.

Phil (50:38):
You sing it for us, Clinton, because I…
people get mad when I sing.

Clinton (50:40):
No, they said no singing.
No, I sing better when you sing it.
They said no singing, so I'll, I'll abide.
No.

Brandan (50:45):
Well, it was a fun show, even though it was number three on the, the
three for, all of us it sounds like.
It, it still was a, anentertaining show to watch.
What about the 12s

Phil (50:54):
part?
Did you guys already talk abouthow they, like- No … they go
to the 12s, the 12s love Brandan?
Did

Brandan (51:00):
you guys- Well, yeah, we…
I mean, we don't need toshine the light on ourselves.
We, we've had enough shine, right?

Clinton (51:05):
The one thing I'll say about that that I didn't write down was the song
they selected, Pearl Jam Given to Fly,to open- Yes … that up was super dope.
That…
I love that Pearl Jam song.
I think yields a very underratedPearl Jam album, and that is
a really cool song, so- It

Phil (51:17):
was a letdown.
I was waiting, who's gonna flywhen they get to the given…
And I'm not gonna singit, the given to fly part.
And they cut the songbefore they got to that.
I was, I was just waitingto see somebody flying, but-

Brandan (51:27):
Yeah, that's a whiff on the editors right there, Phil.

Clinton (51:29):
And we have a hawk that they've, they could
have just shown, like l- Yeah
let's, let's roll in the flies.
Given to

Phil (51:33):
fly, there was great choices, yeah.

Clinton (51:34):
Yeah, that was cool.

Brandan (51:36):
All right.
Well, I really appreciate everybody whojoined in with us as, we did this
post-game, or post-game, post-show show.
Feels like it.
But, big thanks to Ryan911 comingin with the executive producer donation,
as well as Shane Turner Acoustic.
The Snail, I need to call out The Snail.
Oh.
Member of four, for 47 months.
Wow.

(51:56):
Next month is four years.
Feel old yet?
Go Hawks.

Adam (52:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, speaking- Dang … of old, andwe talked about back stretches, like
about four episodes ago- … andSnail was like, "What is it?"
I'm going…
I've been looking for the video.
I will find the video Snail, andI will get it to you, I promise.

Brandan (52:11):
All right.
Promises made, and,that'll be up to you.
A- Adam- … if you don't, if you don'tget that for him, you are a loser.
You are the worst.

Adam (52:20):
The worst.
Gosh, I gotta get this for Snail.
Ah.

Brandan (52:25):
And I think with that-

Adam (52:26):
There's only one thing left to say
…Brandan: go Hawks.
Go

Phil (52:29):
Hawks.

Adam (52:30):
Go Hawks.

Phil (52:30):
Go Hawks.
Go whatever.