Kubiak to Fleury: What's Actually Changing on Offense (w/ Coach DC)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Clinton (00:09):
Welcome to the Seahawks Podcast.
I'm your host Clinton Bonner, and asyou can see if you're watching this
on YouTube, and you should be, I amjoined today by our very special guest
Coach DC, Coach Derek, All 22 Films.
Coach, we are excited because we aregonna dive in to the mystery that is
Coach Fleury because we have Hard Knocks.
He's never on Hard Knocks.

(00:30):
We got a couple of preseasongames to now look at, and we're
gonna look at some of the clues.
We're gonna look a little deeper,and we're gonna investigate what
is really in store for the Seahawksoffense and how much different
might it be than last year's SuperBowl championship offensive team.
Coach, how are you doing?

Coach Derek (00:47):
Doing great, man.
It's, just like you guys, I'm sure,just like super busy, but joyfully busy.
Yes… I feel happy to haveso much work that I want to do-

Clinton (00:57):
Oh, that's good

… Coach Derek (00:58):
that I, that I can't get to it, you know, to be honest with you.
Like, you know, this is thesecond week in a row for me where
trying to dive into the Seahawk…
I, I can't produce content untilI feel like I understand the plays
to a certain depth or degree.

Clinton (01:12):
Mm.

And so I could probably get Seahawks content out sooner, but I don't
think it would be to the quality thatI wish to produce, if that makes sense.

Clinton (01:22):
It does.

So-

Clinton (01:23):
Well, yeah, it does

it's been a fun, it's been a fun two weeks with, with the film out.
and it's been, like, a lot of latenights and early mornings, so it's what
I asked for, so I'm very happy to be herewith you- I love it… again, and I know
you guys are excited about the season,despite, a really awful, you know, Bud
Clark and Jake Bobo- Yeah… for me, man.
Seeing, looking up and seeing thatwas, that was not cool at all.

(01:45):
But, you guys got so much talentand depth there that, you know, I'm
looking forward to see how they adjust.

Clinton (01:50):
Yeah, and that's the right word, too.
It's not ju- it, it is, because especiallythe Bobo part, 'cause we're looking at
Fleury today, and we'll bring this upon screen so folks can see it there
but the Bobo injury, how might thatimpact not just the pass game, but what
Fleury wants to do in the run game?
I'm sure we'll get into that aswell because he's pretty damn
valuable i- in the run game aswell, the type of dude he is.
But we're gonna discuss that.

(02:10):
We're gonna also gonna look at, we'regonna talk quarterbacks, we're gonna
talk some injury, we're gonna talk, hey,are there, is there just too many mouths
to feed in terms of pass-catching- Mm
dudes out there, including runningbacks, knowing that the Shanahan system
likes to feed running backs that way.
We're gonna hit all those things.
We're actually gonna talk a littleUConn later, little teaser for those.
Most people won't care, but heck, it'smy show tonight and I care deeply

(02:34):
so we're gonna talk about that.
But as it relates to ourquarterback, Jalen Milroe, we'll
get into all that with you.
And we wanna remind folks out there toplease like and subscribe, drop a comment.
If you have another question for, forCoach Derek, drop it in the comments.
When this is after being done live,I'll make sure we share it back
with him on Twitter, and, andyou know, he's, he's a great, great

(02:54):
person out there to engage with.
And of course, just a reminder that theLA Rams are not Super Bowl champions yet.
As much as the NFL wants to crownthem, we are still the Super Bowl
champions until they take it away and, I don't think they're going to.
One thing I want everybody to takeaway, though, is that you gotta
follow Coach Derek out on Twitterand go subscribe on YouTube.

(03:14):
Look, he's approaching50,000 subs out on YouTube.
If 50 million Elvis fans can't be wrong,well, then 50,000 subs can't be wrong.
Go hit him up on YouTube.
That's, just search All 22NFL, you'll see it, and find him
out on Twitter because it's alwaysthese gems he's dropping out
there, and we love having him on.
So, Coach, that's probably…

(03:35):
I, I, I know our audience loves you,so I know most of our audience is gonna
know you already, but I also know there'sbrand new people seeing you for the
first time, so I wanna give you the love.
Let's dive right in.
Kubiak gone, Fleury's here.
We're not breaking any new ground there.
But you, now we got two preseasons,preseason games under our
belts, albeit still preseason.

(03:56):
What are you seeing as the biggestmaybe similarities from last year?
And then what are the biggestdeltas that you're noticing so
far in what Fleury has unveiled?

Yeah, there's a, a lot more running back motion just before the snap.

Clinton (04:11):
Hmm.

And I, and I, you know, not to get into the Drew Lock, Jalen
Milroe thing immediately, but I didnotice it more in the first half
this week than I did in the second.
I charted the whole first possessionfor Milroe in the, third quarter.

Clinton (04:31):
Mm-hmm.

And didn't notice one iteration of shotgun and the running
back motioning out just before the snap.
And I felt like in the first halfof this game in particular, that
kind of cleared up some of thereads for Drew Lock underneath.
I'm, I'm being a littlebit generic or general here
in stating that, but…
Now, having said that, the twointerceptions by Jalen Milroe I think

(04:53):
are really poor- Yes… in my opinion.
so a lot to like.
There's a ton of run concepts, and Ithink that, you know, th- there's probably
some variations off of what Kubiak did.
I, I think there's gonnabe, like a Venn diagram.
I think there's gonna be a largeamount of, intersection between
the run concepts in, in my opinion.

(05:15):
a pattern emerging that is notunique to Flory or, or Shanahan is
run action to the boundary with thequarterback booting to the field.
I mean- Hmm… that's the wayyou do it, you know, especially
when you're getting 11 personnel.
I'm just giving you generalobservations- Yeah… so far that I
think either carry over from last yearand look similar, or things that are new.

(05:41):
The whole running back motioning outthing, I'm not saying that Kubiak and
Seattle didn't ever use it last year,but it's definitely something that
exists in San Francisco, whetherit's McCaffrey in the backfield or not.
Motion just before the snap by the runningbacks, oftentimes moving out to the side
where there's already two receivers.

(06:03):
So you're almost kind of forcingthe second-level defenders
to widen up a little bit-

Clinton (06:08):
Hmm

and open up a lane to throw into somewhere, you know…
so that's something that's,I think is a little bit new.
So

Clinton (06:16):
yeah, I'd love to start- The, the

amount of times- I'd love, yeah… to see it.

Clinton (06:18):
I'd love to start there too, and so great observation first and taking that
a click deeper, but you're mentioning,hey, at least what you saw from the
snaps, that they were doing it more under,under Drew than they were under Milroe.
Now, is that a consequence?
Is Milroe in shotgun more?
There was some…
There was plenty of shotgun Drew.
We're gonna talk about the run gameout of shotgun I think in a little bit.
But is it more, hey, do you thinkthe coaches think Drew's just

(06:43):
more capable of running that a-and/or Milroe is in a, is in- Yeah
shotgun more and it's less friendly forthat type of motion, or is it something
just else you think they're trying?

I'm not sure.
I mean, when I watched the firsthalf, I noticed how often that motion
was a part of the play, and it's verysmooth and, and oftentimes it's to
the field, which makes sense, right?
You're, you motion them intothe boundary even in the NFL
where the hashes are tight.
Yep.
There's just not as much room.
but it…
When I started to watch the thirdquarter film, there did come a

(07:14):
point in time where I was like,"All right, this looks different,"
you know- Hmm… to some degree.
I did feel like Milroe, for whateverreason, was less, you know, take the
four or five yard gain that's there,whether it's play action boot and throw
it out to the tight end/fullback in theflats, or the first interception, Hmm

(07:36):
I think is an absolute setupfor him to just throw it to the
running back to the field, let therunning back run onto the space.
When I say field, I meanthe wide side of the field.
I know that you know, but I'msaying this for- Yeah… your
listeners and/or watching.
It's great.

Clinton (07:47):
Thank you.

it's a very unusual setup, the first interception.
It's, I think it's a seven or eight playdrive, and I believe it's a first and 10
My apologies for that.
It was not the seven or eight play drive.
That first possession of the thirdquarter was a punt, but it is a first
and 10, and it's Bunch into the boundary.
And normally when you get Bunch intothe boundary at the NFL level, one

(08:12):
of those three receivers into theboundary, the short side of the field
is gonna motion to the wide side.

Clinton (08:16):
Mm-hmm.

And it, it, to me, this is my impression, it seemed to me like
Fleury was saying, "Hey, we know whatcoverage we're gonna get to the field.
We're gonna run the running backinto the flats, a little curl by
the number one to the field, throwthe ball to the running back in the
flats, let him run onto the space.
We get five, six yards, fine."

Clinton (08:34):
Yeah.

Great.
That's what

Clinton (08:35):
I see.
Great on first down.
That's a, "Hey, we'll take thaton first down every single time."
Yeah.

That's what I see, and I think it's there.
Don't gr- don't get me wrong, thecorner is, is sitting at eight, nine
yards depth, and he's gonna react.
The inside linebacker, youknow, he's gonna react, so
you're not gonna hit a home run.
But I, I just feel like Jalen Milroemade things more difficult on himself
by not taking access to what mighthave been there, immediately.
And, and of course, look, former…

(09:00):
We have so many people out there analyzingthe game that former NFL quarterbacks will
tell you, "Okay, this is what this is."

Clinton (09:06):
Mm-hmm.

And they're not wrong.
Clearly they're not wrong, right?
They know a whole lotmore than me and you do.
But we do not know what was said tothe quarterback in the helmet pre-snap.
Sure.
My suspicion here on this firstinterception is- "Hey Jay," or, you know
whatever he calls him, "We wanna takethe access to the running back right now.
Un- unless the corner squatsor the inside linebacker flows

(09:29):
right now, we wanna take it."
And, you know, I could be wrong.
I could obviously be wrong there.
So, in terms of the differencebetween those two guys, which is not
necessarily what you asked me,Lock made a horrible decision on an
interception in the first half, too.
He

Clinton (09:42):
got bailed out on

that one.
He got bailed out.
Yes, he did.
I don't…
You know, I watched that play threeor four times, and I'm like, "Did
he see, you know, what he thoughtor perceived was a penalty?"
Right.
Like Josh Allen stuff, you know?
Yep.
Josh Allen, "Okay, I think I seea penalty over here or there
so I'm gonna throw it," right?
And, and let happenwhat hap- what happens.
I, I didn't see that at all.
To me, that was a awful decision by Lock.
that was decision-makingversus Milroe that was more, like

(10:08):
execution- Mm-hmm… and then balllocation, which was, you know, pretty
inconsistent throughout the game.
From a Flores standpoint, y- I think,I think, I do think you have a merging
of the, the Shanahan stuff and the,quote, Kubiak, which is all related.
And so I'm very interested in some ofthe, the variations that we get.
some of my notes, ton ofrun concepts, like I said.

Clinton (10:32):
Yeah, let's talk about that.

I'm, I'm really interested in, well, in addition, the, the
pass pro element, how much isput on the quarterback versus how
much is put on the offensive line.
I think, I suspect that you guysknow, that after one of the s- 49ers
Super Bowl losses, there was a discussionabout Spagnuolo attacking certain pass

(10:57):
pro and the 49ers being unwilling orin the Shanahan structure not changing-

Clinton (11:03):
Mm-hmm

that pass pro, like, quote, "ever."
And Spagnuolo knowing that, forcingcertain looks, and then taking
advantage of it, basically knowing,"Okay, they're gonna throw the hot.
They're not gonna change the protection."
And so that part of it for me, I'm notpretending to know as much as ex-NFL
quarterbacks, but I am interestedin that aspect of it, you know, 'cause

(11:26):
I didn't think Kubiak had that problem.
To me, Kubiak almost always hadall the right answers, whether
it was play call, whether it wasformation, whether it was pass pro.
I mean, the system was beautiful.
That's why I'm glad, correct me if I'mwrong, they kept the O-line coach, right?

Clinton (11:39):
Yes.
Benton, yep, correct.
Yeah, they kept Benton there.
So were you seeing anything that alludesto that Fleury might be adopting the
Shanahan style of locking in on somethingthat might give you some concern?
I mean, you said what you said, soI'm like, I'm like, "Oh, does that
mean you're seeing a trait or two thatmight be peeking out its ugly head?"
Or no, it's, that's not evident so far?

No.
No, not to me.
But, you know, I am seeing formationsand, and the ensuing plays and
action that looks the same.
Mm-hmm.
I mean, one that I talked about aton on my channel last year was 12
personnel, two tight ends, one runningback, and then what I call ace.
So tight end receiver to the right,tight end receiver to the left, and
those guys, it's a mirrored look-Mm-hmm… to the right and to the left.

(12:22):
So they had the same spacing,they had the same width.
you know, I know that you knowthis, but I'm more so talking for
for, for your observers or listeners.
and Kubiak used thatbrilliantly in 2025.
I mean, it was someone like, I thinkit's Dan Casey or people who write
books about offensive play callers.
Like me in the off-season, I wanted towrite one about just Kubiak's usage of 12

(12:47):
personnel ace formation because there wasso much there with the way he attacked it.
And so for me, when I…
You know, obviously he leftand he goes to the Raiders.
I was kind of like, "Okay, arethey gonna keep the ace look?"
Hmm.
Because it's just fun for meA lot of people use it at the
NFL level, don't get me wrong.
But in my opinion, because of theunique personnel that the Seahawks

(13:12):
have/had, and the way Kubiak calledthe plays, I felt like it was
dialing up or increasing the volumeon the effectiveness, if you will.

Clinton (13:22):
Mm-hmm.

and, and especially the play action.
I mean, so many of the touchdownsgenerated last year were generated
from that formation, whether theywere to receivers or tight ends.
I just, I love a balanced formationthat's two by two that looks the
same to the right and the left.
Personally, you know, I love it.
And so I was glad to see that Floryis keeping that one, 'cause, you know
we saw it show up a lot, e- especiallyin this last game against Tennessee.

Clinton (13:46):
I love that.
Love that insight because…
And thank you for taking the time toexplain it too, because, as much
as I do know, I, I could use all thevisualizations you're giving
with, with the audio commentary there.
So that, that's super helpful for me.
But really cool to understand that,hey, there was a concept that was
really working well last year, andyes, we're gonna see a hybrid, but in

(14:06):
your opinion, what you're seeing ontape is they're, they're retaining some
of the stuff that clearly did work.
And it'll evolve, it will alwaysevolve, but con- the concept of it
with that H formation is retained,which is super interesting to me.
It's a very good, very good point.
so we saw Drew, we saw Drew, Ithink, under center quite a bit, but
then really I've seen, something I wantedto ask you about was, you mentioned

(14:29):
the run concepts early and the, thevariance off of the run concepts.
I saw, I was like, oh man, we'rerunning out of shotgun, I think
more than we did last year.
So am I right?
Does it seem like the, the volume ofthat is higher, and then is the…
What's happening with the run concepts outof shotgun that either have you excited
or you're just, you know, you're not sureare quite there yet for the Seahawks?

Well, and I mean, in this day and age, you see so much
shotgun at all levels of football.
My apologies, I'm looking off-screen'cause I'm s- I was trying to find that
tweet that you and I talked about- It's

Clinton (14:59):
all

good… in the pre-show, but like, for whatever reason
I'm having difficulty sharing it.
But to your point, we see so much shotgun.
The, the dynamic is so interesting to me.
The training of players at a younger levelis In many cases reliant on being able
to see the football, see the quarterback.

(15:20):
Now there are some times admittedly whereif you look at the end zone angle of film
people, non-football people will say,"Well, he's looking at the quarterback."
No, he's looking at the guard.
He's getting his read from theguard- Mm-hmm… or he's getting
his read from the, you know, the,the tackle to the running back side.
The calls are so different and sovariable that I feel like we're

(15:41):
all remiss if we say he's readingthis with 100% certainty, okay?
Now I'm getting to the, the whole point,your question about the shotgun stuff.

Clinton (15:48):
Sure.

My apologies.
All

Clinton (15:50):
good

getting, being able to use both I think is important.
It really helps to have a-an athletic quarterback.
And so of course, now Sam Darnold showedoff his athleticism in the Super Bowl.
Three or four plays, at leasttwo in the first half I thought
were potentially disastrous-

Clinton (16:08):
Mm-hmm

from a pass pro standpoint, and then Darnold escapes and, you
know, turns them into first downs or,or at least a, not a negative play.
But it's super helpful to have aathletic quarterback where you can
stick the ball in the quarterback'sgut, read the zone concept or
whatever it is, and then have thequarterback keep it around the edge.
They're not gonna do thatwith Darnold a whole lot.

(16:28):
That's not what this rungame's gonna look like.
But it does look like it in thepreseason when you just watch the…
If you were scouting them and watchingthe run game from the shotgun you'd
say, "Well, they're, it does look likethe quarterback's reading it to me."
So that's interesting.
how often would theydo that with Darnold?
At most once every two or three weeksprobably on, in a critical situation.

(16:52):
I think that that, you know,there's so many other options
and so much talent on this team.
I, I'm interested in the 11 personnelrun game because this is a theory of
mine, and I don't ask you or listeners,viewers to accept it, completely
but I think 11 personnel shotgun runeffectiveness is extremely reduced if

(17:15):
you don't have an athletic quarterback.
If you're not…
And I'm talking aboutall levels of football.
So the NFL some would say maybeis a little bit different.
you're not using some ofyour receivers as blockers.
A- when I say 11 personnel, I meanone running back, one tight end.
And so if you're not able to or willingto- threaten the field horizontally with

(17:38):
your quarterback keeping it, essentially,then you've limited the amount of
space horizontally that the defensehas to defend, against the run.
Mm.
So to answer your question, I dothink the shotgun run game looks good.
I'm wondering if it's gonnabe out of 11 personnel or 12.

Clinton (17:56):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.

Because 12 is different, number one.
Number two, you just lost JakeBobo, who's an- Correct… exceptional
blocker in the run game.
So 11 personnel can functionallybe 12, and I'm not calling Jake
Bobo a tight end in disguise.
Like, if you guys don't know, I thinkyou do, but if you, if you guys don't

(18:18):
know, like, I've done videos on JakeBobo in the preseason last year.
I remember that touchdown catch.
I think it was the Chiefs.
Is that right?

Clinton (18:25):
I don't remember it per se, but, you know, but I- Yeah
… remember him catching a touchdown.
Forget who against.

So, so, you know, big fan, and that's a loss-

Clinton (18:33):
Yes

I think that impacts the 11 personnel run game.
So to answer your question,I like what we're seeing.
It looks like thequarterbacks are reading it.
Sam Darnold certainly would be capableof, of reading it, reading the edge
defender, reading the inside linebacker.
It makes me wonder if there'snot gonna be some more RPO usage
and I- Hmm… I don't know ifpeople have talked about that yet.
Basically, instead of reading thedefensive end, you're reading the inside

(18:54):
linebacker or second-level defender anddeciding whether to, hand the ball
off or throw it out there in the flats.
Think, like, Jayden Daniels, WashingtonCommanders, his rookie year type stuff-

Clinton (19:06):
Yeah

yeah… where you've got the run action over here.
Conceptually, it's really justplay action boot is all it is.
You're just asking thequarterback to read it.
So I don't necessarily see the offensegoing there, but when you start…
when you see or observe the quarterbackreading, w- appear- apparent- apparently
reading, you know, zone read stuff, thenyour brain starts to say, "Okay, how are

(19:28):
they gonna do this out of 11 personnel?"
Again, I don't expect you or others toaccept my assertion that 11 personnel
run game out of the shotgun is verylimited if your quarterback isn't
athletic or you're not willing to havehim keep the football around the edge.
Forgive the long-winded answer, butthat's where I am with that, and again
it's perhaps my own limitation becauseI have never seen 11 personnel run

(19:49):
game work without a quarterback whocan add onto it, if that makes sense.

Clinton (19:54):
Makes all the sense in the world.
Un- understood.
And there's a couple piecesthere that I wanna, you know
delve into a little bit more.
I like the idea of, Seattle addingthat to the repertoire, mainly for
the a- for the, you said, hey, it,it's not, you don't think it'd be
something they go to all the time.
However, having it in the quiver andpulling the strings at the right time
to me, when I think about those RPOs,and I think about, you know, just

(20:17):
using the flats with more, moreconsistency, I look at those, I kinda
deem those, like, free yards in the NFL.
When you, when you are doing it well,and you're in rhythm, and, and if you
have a defense that doesn't reallythink of you that way, speaking in
very generic terms, but then you'rekeeping them honest in the preseason.
But if coaches will watch this going,"Hey, we gotta be ready for this.

(20:38):
They might do this," to me, it sets upother opportunities to, yes, do it a
couple times, but then also probablyspring some things off of it in a variant
that might be a more explosive play- Yeah
based on a look as well.
So all that's exciting, and I willsay, I'm glad you bring up Sam's
athleticism, because I don't thinkhe gets, you know, I'm not saying
people are like, oh- Underrated.
Yeah, he's, he's un- he'san underrated athlete.

(20:59):
It's not like, oh, he'sgonna go rush for 600 yards.
No, he's not going togo rush for 600 yards.
However, there was multiple times downthe stretch where he's responsible
for moving the chains on third down.
it was a little bit, a little bitlike Mahomes got very, very, very good.
It's like, you don't thinkof Mahomes as a scrambler.
However, if it's third and six, yousee Mahomes scooting around the edge

(21:19):
he's getting six and a half yards.
Like, book it, especiallywhen he was super healthy.
We'll see if he can con- continuethat after- Right… some injury.
But you see him escaping, it'slike, well, just move the chains.
It's, it's done already.
He's getting this first down.
And down the stretch and into the SuperBowl, Sam kinda got to that level of
okay, if he's taking off, he sees it, he'sgone, and he is a good enough athlete to

(21:41):
really, you know, move those chains.
So exciting stuff, 'causethat could be a wrinkle.
You did mention Bobo.
We, I wanted to chat with you about,you know, we lose Ouzts, and Ouzts
is a 275-pound fullback that hasexplosives that are off the charts.
we still have Brady Russell, but heis not, from a size perspective, giving

(22:01):
up about 25 pounds, and an explosionperspective, he's different than Rob Ouzts.
And we lose Bobo, and you mentioned,thank you for saying it, hey, in 11
personnel, you're kinda could be in ade facto 12 when you have blockers like
you know, like, Bobo out there.
So- We have a lot of mouths to feed.
We just lost two guys that would b-would play a big role in the run game.

(22:26):
How do you think this impacts-How long's Ouzts out for?
How long's the fullback out for?
He's out for the year.
He's got a neck…
He's…
So his neck injury that kept him outthe end of last season popped up.
They put him on IR.
He's gone.
So- I didn't know

that.
I

Clinton (22:37):
knew about- Yeah

Bobo, but I didn't know that.

Clinton (22:38):
Yeah, so Ouzts is gone too, so just makeup wise, how does that hit you?
You're hearing the Ouzts stuffin, you know, in real time.

That's a…
Both of those are losses,I mean, individually.
Collectively or combined, Imean, it's a pretty big factor
you know, to be honest with you.
And I can reflect on theRavens' uses of, of Pat Ricard.

Clinton (22:57):
Mm-hmm.

and he was used not just, it's not just in the run game, but it's
it could be, pass pro stuff as well.
So the subtraction of Ouztsis, possibly trickle-down
effect on the tight ends.
How much more are those guys gonnabe asked to do two things, I guess.
Move back in the backfield.
I don't know what they think of…
Brady Russell was, would be thepresumed starter now, right?

(23:20):
30- Correct.

Clinton (23:21):
At, at fullback, yes

Yeah.
So, how, how often would theytake, rather take a tight end and
move them back in the backfield?
That's what's happened inthe NFL in recent years.
Yeah That's why so manyteams don't have fullbacks.
They, they, they reallydo have a fullback.
They're just asking thetight end to do it, right?
but you know, who would that be?
Right?
Barner would be capable, butI don't think it would be him.

Clinton (23:42):
Yeah, he wouldn't do, you probably wouldn't do with Barner.
You're not gonna do that with Arroyo.
Right.
But most likely as your, as yourmove, your move tight end.
They have two options.
It could be Saubert, but Saubert'snot the athlete that either Ouzts or
Russell are in terms of nimbleness.
But there's the fourth guy, whichis Nick Kallerup, who he looks like
he could be that, "Hey, if we needa, a fullback to go in," he's got a

(24:02):
little higher level of athleticism.
Whereas Saubert is one of my favoriteplayers in the entire team, Coach, but
he is your traditional blocking tightend who when he's in line, he's just
he knows how to position his body.
He's great with his hands.
I'm not so sure he's the same ifhe's gotta go to a moving target.

Is Venette still around?

Clinton (24:21):
Venette's a five right now, so yes, it's, so they
got Venette back on the team.
Amazing

story… I

Clinton (24:26):
don't…
Yeah, I know, right?
It's the circle back.
I, I wonder, I don't know, Idon't think Venette makes the 53.

Right.
Right

Clinton (24:32):
But with the way that, vets get treated with this
practice squad now, he likely couldget there or get gobbled up if a
team needs a, a blocking tight end.

Yeah, really cool.
The, there's so much tightend talent across the NFL and
the college football universe.
I mean, the, I feel like tight endposition, what's happened in the last
let's do it this way, the last threeor four years to tight ends- Mm-hmm
is what happened with widereceiver talent 10, 12 years ago.
And what I mean is, you know, morespecific training at the position, and

(25:04):
I, I feel like that occurred conceptuallyfor wide receivers further back in
the past than it did for tight ends.

Clinton (25:10):
Yeah.

You know?
So I'm not sure that I explainedthat really well, but there's a
lot of really good tight ends, andSeattle has at least three of them.
I just finished a, a videoon Arroyo, putting out.
I didn't include the ball that I thinkis down the left sideline from Milroe
that, I mean, possibly that ball was,you know, a foot, two feet, I don't wanna
s- even say the word under thrown, butit could be slightly further out there.

(25:34):
But the- Yeah
linebacker makes a great play on it, 33.
You know, so yeah, I mean, that,those two are impact, those two's losses
the, the lack of availability for Boboand Ouzts, I thought big- bringing
back Bobo was a big deal this year.

Clinton (25:48):
I liked it.
I, I love, I lo- I mean, he wassigned to Jacksonville, right?
So they went and out and matched.
So Jacksonville wanted them, wantedhim, and your point being, too, about
the wide receiver and then bleedinginto the spe- into the tight ends
be- becoming more specialists, andthen Bobo, who literally can kind of
canvas both worlds when he needs to.
Right.
You wanna put him in line and be a defacto tight end, he gets the job done.

(26:10):
But he also can go overthe middle, he's got…
He could, he could high pointthe ball, a very sure-handed
receiver, and he was clutch, right?
So, and he was a very goodblocker in the run game.
So, I'm with you for su- Big loss.
Yeah, I, I agree.
For both of, of those guys.
It's gonna be interesting to see howFleury, you know, evolves or, or turns
turns it over, but you mentioned thatwe really do have a, I don't

(26:30):
I don't, I don't think the NFL,regular NFL fan would think about the
Seattle tight end room as special.
They'd be like, "Oh, Barner's niceand emerging, and he, you know
wears a mink coat where they'recelebrating, and he's a b-," you know
all that stuff, a bit of a showman.
All cool.
Even if they even know who A.J.
Barner is.
Arroyo, they probably get excitedabout because he's the move guy who played

(26:51):
with Cam Ward and scored a bajilliontouchdowns with wide open hash- hashes.
Now he's emerging, and he looks tobe a darn good move who can stick his
nose in there and do a job blocking.
But then they have Saubertand we have Kallerup.
So you got Fleury, whichis the topic for today.
He's a tight ends coach comingfrom a system that really likes to

(27:11):
use tight ends, significantly.
W- what do you think, if you had to lookat, like, okay, you got those three dudes.
Well, Saubert's not gonna catchtoo many passes regardless.

Right.

Clinton (27:21):
What could you project or think about for Barner and Arroyo's usage given
the fact that it's also within a roomwith a lot of pass catchers that gotta
get a ball, gotta get balls, and a teamthat still likes to run the football?
So how does it all suss in your opinion?

Yeah.
I just, it's funny that you ask thatbecause I literally just talked about
that- Hmm… point at the end ofthe Arroyo video I recorded, like
maybe 45 minutes before you and I met.
Oh, cool.
And my point was twofold, but it reallylines up with what you said, I believe.
I think in another city,another NFL team, that A.J.
Barner could be a 70,75 catch a season guy.

Clinton (27:56):
Yeah.

Six, eight, you know, maybe as much as 10 touchdowns, depending on…
You know, essentially if he hadbeen in Arizona last year
and, and been exposed to as manyopportunities as their tight end.
I think it's McBride the guy.
McBride

Clinton (28:09):
yeah.
Yep.

You know, I don't know that he's gonna catch, what is it, 112
balls or whatever the heck McBride did.
I don't even know what the number was.
I don't know that it wasabove 100, but it was a lot.

Clinton (28:17):
It was a lot, yeah.
For sure.

Very similar to, 2021 Mark Andrews in Baltimore.
Lamar goes out like week eight,week nine, something like that, and
Andrews ends up with like 94catches because we lost both of our
running backs, Gus Edwards and J.K.
Dobbins.
Lamar goes out some point intime, and Mark Andrews is like

(28:40):
the only guy you know, left.
Mm-hmm.
So he ended up with 90 catches.
So i- what I'm saying is I could sit…
I could say here that, in my opinion,six other teams in the NFL, I'm not gonna
name them, maybe even upwards of eight,Barner could be a 70 catch, 75 catch guy.
Yeah.
However, however, in Seattle, of course,you know, JSN, Shaheed, Horton, I don't

(29:04):
know what his deal is, you know, about…
It's a long season, 17 games.
A lot of guys are gonna be injured,so you know, I don't what…
I don't know what the specific usageo- of Horton will be And then al-
along with that, you know, theywanna be committed to the run game.
So Arroyo being a emergingplayer potentially could cut
even more into Barner's targets.

(29:24):
I think A.J.
Barner's a way better football player, waybetter pass-catching tight end than the
rest of NFL fan bases would be aware of.

Clinton (29:32):
Mm-hmm.

And that's one of the reasons why I wholesale reject
one game rating structures completelybecause Barner is a guy to me who has
impact when he gets the opportunity.
Why doesn't he get more opportunities?
Well, you got JSN, right?
You got, you know,last year Kenneth Walker.
So to your point, I think it's areal dynamic that if Arroyo emerges

(29:54):
you could see Barner's season-longproduction, his stats essentially stay
the same even though he's, maybehe's a, a better player than he was
two, three years ago, what have you.
I th- I, I think the world oftheir tight end group, I really do.
Saubert, Saubert Ithink, I think maybe I- Sa-

Clinton (30:10):
yeah, Saubert, but you-

Saubert… you got it.
Yeah I think I've been mispronouncing it.
is a, is a good player.
You know- Yeah… don'tget me wrong, and it…
The two-point conversion catch, likeyou'll never forget that obviously.
to the, the moment ofthe decision there to…
I think it's a design play.
I think that other people are a, a,a part of the read and a potential
receiver of the football there-Sure… but I don't think it was

(30:32):
accidental of him catching that football.
I think it's totally designed.
But in any case, I think it's a bettertight end group than everybody would
give them credit, than many peoplewould give them credit, first of all.

Clinton (30:40):
Yeah.

second of all, to me consistency of usage looks the same…
I, I, I see it here.
I observe it basically.
In this system I think you're stillgonna have the same type of plays
drawn up for these guys, the type of…
the same expectation level.
Maybe you see more 12 personnel usage,but I think that depends on Arroyo
being consistent as a blocker.

Clinton (31:03):
Hmm.

He can do it the touchdown, you know, the touchdown by Jacardie
Wright the other night is so crazy.
Like, the first time I watched itfrom the all 22, I'm like, "Did
Arroyo get two blocks there?"
And then when I see the end zoneangle, I'm like, "Oh, he thinks he
missed the block on the linebacker,"so he's turning around, and then the

(31:25):
receiver runs him into the safety.
He literally gets sandwichedbetween the receiver and the safety.
So, you know, I thinkhe can be a better blocker.
I think he has to be.
If you wanna use 12 personnel a wholelot, like, Barner and Arroyo on the
field at the same time with JSN overhere, and Shaheed or Horton over there to
the right, I think that's a great group.
It, it, it relies upon him being ableto block consistently, so, you know

(31:47):
the question is, can he do that?

Clinton (31:49):
Yeah.
I love, love the…
I, I have my, my questions and, andsome doubts there still, with
with him in that, in that position.
But I think we're, we're gonna geta chance to see it, certainly give
the young man in his second yearan opportunity there, for sure.
And overall, we ran the ballat, at one of the higher percentages
last year and, you know, we know MikeMacdonald's gonna wanna run the ball.

(32:11):
Like, after year one with Ryan Grubb,where it was, I don't even wanna talk
about it, but it was all, all shotgun allthe time, complete predictability, like
where, to the point where linebackers werenot even dropping on play action because
there were so many tells out there.
And then turning that over to K- toKubiak, where everything's multiple
everything looks like a 98 mile perhour fastball, however it's a changeup

(32:33):
and, and you're s- you know, you're-Yeah… you're lu- you're lunging and
you're on the bench two seconds laterbecause you got fooled, to take
a, a baseball metaphor or analogy.
So do you think given what you're seeingso far, given the JSN just gets paid.
I know it's…
Him, is that a big deal?
I mean, he just got paid, right?
I mean, he just gotpaid huge, huge dollars.
They draft a, a running back in the firstround that, again, m- might be catching

(32:58):
some more balls with, Jadarian Price.
If you had to…
Do you think we'll be pretty muchsteady eddy in terms of percentage of
run versus pass, or do you think thedials will change more towards run or
more passing in the Fleury offense?
Just based on what you, you're seeingso far, or what you know of Fleury.

Yeah, I mean, it's a great question.
I think that, to some degreeit depends on what the defense
offers, what's out there.
And it…
We have to keep in mind, I'm notevading the question, but we have to
keep in mind that it's a 17 game season,and, you know, let's just say your
match up in week 10 or week 11 or week12, whatever, might be a team that you
face that, is down two D tackles.

(33:38):
Mm-hmm.
So of course you're gonnarun the ball more, right?
Or- Sure… or the same, the,the opposite side of that coin.
Your m- the team is missing a nickelDB and, and a safety, so you
may target the tight ends more.
I think of basically last year, the Ravensgo to Green Bay without Lamar Jackson
and, and we had a awful season in 2025.
We deserved every bit of it, however.

(34:00):
and, and the- Packersare down two D tackles.
Micah Parsons' been out fora while with the ACL injury.
Mm-hmm.
And Derrick Henry could haveran for 400 yards that night if
they gave him the football more.
So I, to some degree, I thinkit depends on what you're seeing
in that, specific week.
And the Shanahan structure, Kubiakstructure, McVay, they're all similar.

(34:22):
I think Ben Johnson'sright in there with them.
They all are very multiple as faras presenting this particular look
formation, and then the quarterbackbeing able to decide which play to run.
And Darnold is super…
He's a brilliant mind as faras football or football goes.
Twice in the off-season I was ableto listen to him talk football

(34:44):
and, you know, one of which wasfrom, like, four or five years ago.
And I was like, "Man, this is…"
It's just fun to listen to-

Clinton (34:50):
Mm

some of these guys talk when they get the chance to do so, you know?
I think I would like to see them becommitted to the under center personally.
Yes.
I'd like to see, see them committedto the under center because, you
can change the defense's reaction time
basically, also lengthen orelongate how much time they're put

(35:12):
in conflict by going under center.
Perfect example, it's not Seahawksrelated, the Ravens offense this past week
against Brian Flores, they got annihilatedin the first three possessions.
Three three-and-outs.
Hmm.
Flores with backups on the field or…
I mean, some of whichare very talented guys.
they took us apart.

(35:35):
On the fourth possession, ouroffensive coordinator goes under
center for every play but one, someof which are pass plays, right?
Play action.
And we get the, we get, 68 yards,67 yards out of it, something like that
and we're able to generate a field goal.
And I remember watching itlive thinking, "Well, how?
Why?"
You know?
Mm-hmm.
"How did that occur?"
It goes back to your question fromearlier about the shotgun run game.

(35:58):
Some of these safeties, nickel DBs,Seattle does it, too, on defense, they
are, in particular calls reliantupon being able to see the football.
Was it handed off or not?
And when the quarterback's back isturned and under center comparatively
you have to be looking longer becausethe quarterback's back is turned.
Simple concept.

(36:19):
The old football guys from 100 yearsago, they did know some stuff, right?
Yeah.
Love it.
So, so, you know, to, to yourpoint or to your question about it
you know, overall I think, I thinkthere'll be a lot of similarities
because these structures have alot of similarity in my opinion.
And the one thing to add, not to bringup a nightmare scenario, but let's
say you had to go two or three gameswithout Sam Darnold, the under center

(36:43):
game can safeguard things with a backupquarterback, in my opinion, better than
a shotgun, reliant offense does.
It's a very generic statement andsome people won't agree with it.
No problem with that.
But, you're gener- you're hopefullytraining a guy in Drew Lock or Jalen

(37:03):
Milroe, whatever your preference is, to beable to execute as many things as possible
if they had to get into a footballgame and win it in the regular season.
And I just think at this pointin time, some of those offenses
Shanahan, McVay, Ben Johnson, they'rea little bit more maybe the word is
QB friendly in one way or another.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Forgive me for taking yourquestion someplace you didn't-

Clinton (37:25):
No, it's g-

necessarily maybe want it to go.

Clinton (37:27):
No, it's all good.
It's, it's perfect.
You, you answered it and there's moretributaries from it, too, because
you know, you mentioned Lock.
We're talking quarterbacks.
I wanna, wanna talk abouta couple of quarterbacks.
But, you know, Lock was undercenter to start, to start the game.
And the, the, the nice part about Lock is,you know, we know what we have with him.
So if he has to come in andrun this offense, we know…
We've seen it.
We know he can produce.
Now, we also know at some pointin the game there's gonna be a

(37:48):
there's gonna be a YOLO ball ortwo that you're like, "Dude, what?
Why did you throw that ball?
Where, why?
Just eat it or just dirt it," you know?
Do whatever.
Take a checkdown.
And he's gonna YOLO the ball once ortwice a game because that's Drew Lock.
so you live with that because…
But I love the, the conceptof If we do have to go a spell
without Sam, do we trust…

(38:09):
To me, it comes down to trust.
Do you trust the quarterback to get undercenter and operate basically the same?
You know, like, forall intents and purposes.
Obviously, different levels of,decision-making are gonna be there, and
some variances in arm strength and allthat stuff, but, but Lock's got a hose.
So, so I think we'll…
I think as Seahawks fans, we're quitehappy with Drew Lock as a, as a backup

(38:32):
and we don't wanna see him on thefield, but, but are like, "Hey, if
he's gotta go in and win a game ortwo, because Sam tweaks an ankle
we're pretty confident he can do it."
Now, the QB three, there's alot of consternation in the Pacific
Northwest right now about Jalen Milroe.
So I want to actually…
You know, you know I'm a UConn guy,so the quarterback from, from UConn
who was a UDFA, Fagnano- Mm-hmm… hegets picked up by the Ravens, and

(38:55):
all last year I'm telling anybody whowould listen, I'm like, "Saw the guy
live, watched a lot of UConn games."
I'm like, "Man, I think this guy…"
And by the way, Seahawksfans, stick around.
I'm gonna turn this back to Milroe.
But I'm like, "Look, I thinkthis guy's feet are really good
and I think his decision-makingseemed to be, to me, NFL quality."
And I'm watching the guy and I'm like,"This guy seems like a Chad Pennington

(39:15):
with- Chad Pennington-type playerwith even a better arm," because
that wasn't Chad's strong suit.
And to me, once you start talkingabout, like, Chad plus, you're
entering Brock Purdy territory,and that's a good quarterback.
Now, obviously he's playedtwo preseason games.

Right.

Clinton (39:29):
But I just want, wanna understand from your perspective
watching the Ravens as a Ravens fan,knowing ball like you do, what are you
seeing from a, a young quarterback?
Doesn't, doesn't even matter thatit's a guy from UConn, but seeing from
a young quarterback that you thinkhe's doing well that maybe we should
be watching Milroe in game three?

No, I think it's all related.
You know, I think your connection of thosetwo players, those two, the production
that they have or, or have not had in apreseason, I think that is all related
and it, and it comes down to the decision, after the week three preseason game
which is, you know, which quarterbackor which players do we leave on the
roster and which do we leave unprotected?

Clinton (40:06):
Mm-hmm.

it's a huge discussion, by Baltimore Ravens fans right now.
Tyler Huntley, veryreliable backup quarterback.
We, made the mistake of lettinghim go, I think, after the '24 season
and he ended up back in Baltimore afterbeing in Miami and in Cleveland, and
we brought him back and he won twofootball games for us last year, one
against the Bears on, at home, andone against the Packers on the road.

(40:30):
So, you know, invaluable- Mm-hmm… tohave a guy that, you know, you're
you're comparing or talking aboutDrew Lock in that type of role.
Fagnano, Milroe Okay, soFlagnano's super calm.
Like, nothing bothers the guy.
that was Joe Flacco inBaltimore for, for- Hmm… the, the
amount of time that he was there.
And, and it annoyed some people.

(40:52):
Flacco was so calm, he was so…
It was almost like the moment didn't…
Not only did it not bother him, but tohear him talk about it and watch him
it looked like it didn't matter to him.
He was that calm guy.
And so now Ravens fans arecalling this guy Joe Flagnano.

Clinton (41:09):
That's pretty good.

They're, they're conflating the two names.
I probably screwed it up.
But he's a, you know, he's aver- he was older prospect, 25.
I actually remember peopletalking about him in high school.
Hmm.
He's from Williamsport, Pennsylvania.
My wife's from about 40 minutesfrom there, and a couple of
coaches that I know in the area,I remember them talking about him.
He went to Maine, ends up at Yukon.

(41:32):
six- at Yukon, 648 passattempts, six interceptions.

Clinton (41:38):
Right.

The same number of pass attempts, he had 48 touchdowns
including 28 to one ratio as a senior.
Of course, UConn is notAlabama, where Jalen Milroe
went, but the decision-making.
And it's so crazy that you mentionhis, his feet and his lower half.
I don't know if you watchedmy video that I put out on
Fagnano a couple of nights ago.

(42:01):
I compared him to JJ McCarthy.

Clinton (42:03):
Hmm.

And the comparison I made was, baseball guys aren't gonna like this
or people who say they're baseball fans.
JJ McCarthy reminds me of so many MajorLeague Baseball pitchers now where there
is no leg drive, there's no utilization oftheir lower body at all, and everything is
from here up as far as generating power.

(42:25):
And that's one of the reasons, not theonly one, but it's one of the reasons
why you get so many of these guys,yeah, they're throwing the hell out
of the baseball, but four years laterthey've had one Tommy John, six years
later they've had two, and they're done.

Clinton (42:36):
Mm-hmm.

And there's no lower body utilization at all.
That's JJ McCarthy.
JJ McCarthy is throwing a, a 98 milean hour fastball on every single
throw 'cause everything is fromthe waist up or even the chest up.
Fagnano is different, incredibly balanced.
His feet and his eyes and, andhis, you know, where he's looking
everything moves at the same time.
It's like textbook, tome, and a big fan of him.

(42:58):
So the Ravens have a third quarterback.
Ravens fan base thinks, "Hey, wewould be okay if he had to get
in a game and try to win the gameor, or maybe not lose it," right?
How do you feel about Jalen Milroe?
It's obviously not

Clinton (43:12):
the same.
Right.
No, it's not- Right?
… it's not there.
That trust for a QB three is not thereyet where you would feel comfortable.
Like with Drew, again, you f-you feel quite comfortable.
You know what you're gonnaget, and he's gonna keep you in
games, he's gonna win some games.
He might, he might blow a gameor two, but, but you're…
But this is a good enough team thatcan sustain that and absorb that.
Milroe, we're not seeing it yet.

(43:32):
Now, he wasn't, in the last game, before people bring out the
you know, bur- burning the, awitch at the stake here, he also
was not helped in many scenarios.
There was a couple ofdr- just obvious drops.
There was some 50/50s thatcould've been, could've been
caught that didn't come down with.
However, didn't excuse some of the…
Really it's, it's lessabout decision-making.

(43:53):
It's some of that, butit's ball placement.
You know, the ball- Yeah.
No, I agree… the ball placement islike, it's like, hey man, if I know
you're staring down a linebacker, but if,but if you, if you L- led on the first
interception, if that's where it needs tobe, it's probably not being intercepted.
It's like a, it's notan easy interception.
It's probably not- Yeah… beingintercepted, it m- might be batted down.
Second one is just com- isjust completely just a miss.

(44:15):
He misses, he misses Henderson,and he falls down, but that's
not, in my opinion, not his fault,'cause he's going one direction and
trying to reach back the other way.
Trying to go back, yeah.
Just a complete miss, and he sailedit a bit, because of that.
Ball's thrown

on the wrong side in, in, in

Clinton (44:28):
both- Correct… of

those situations, in my opinion.

Clinton (44:30):
Exactly.
It, it is- That, that'sex- you said it concisely.
The ball was, the ballplacement was the wrong side.
Yeah.
So, you know, where you see reallygood feet from Fagnano at, at all
pretty much all times, I think Seahawksfans that are watching, Milroe are
like, we had a gentleman named MookieAlexander who runs Field, Field
Goals, the SB Nation, print.
Yeah, they're

great.

Clinton (44:49):
Yeah, they, Mookie's awesome.
He was on with us, and hisobservation really hit me.
He goes, "You know," he's like,"Milroe's really fast running forward."
And meaning, he's like, he's not crispsometimes to get to his setup, to get
to his, his, his, just his back to,to drop backs are not always crisp.
Sometimes it looks great.
Sometimes he's super crisp, andfrankly, when he is, that ball's

(45:12):
usually on the money, coach.
And then sometimes it looks alittle, like a little sluggish.
Whether it is or not, it appears to bea little sluggish on, on, you know, film
or live, and then the whole operation's atad off, and he gets in trouble with that.
So, you know, I think the juxtapositionversus some being super crisp that
you're seeing with Fagnano, and usseeing a little bit of like, man

(45:34):
why can't you always just drop backthe way with, with super intent?
And the results, may vary,and for us right now, they are.
So to answer the question, no,I don't think there's a Seahawks
fan out there that would be like,"Yes, I'm comfy with Milroe."
Now it's, now the, the vision and theconversation is what's crept into the
ether is do you keep him on the 53?

(45:57):
And there's this, this conversationabout, well, the value of a 53rd dude.
I'm personally of the opinion thatyou have a deep enough roster the
way the, the practice squad istreated nowadays with veterans.
You have more flexibility than youused to have, and the upside for Milroe
is still so high that, yes, you keephim and you let him continue to learn

(46:18):
in a really good low-pressure system.
I wonder if you have a take on, on whatyou would do if you were John Schneider.

No, I mean, that's, that's an interesting, you know…
It's, it's gonna be extremely interestingfor every NFL franchise, but in particular
the ones like, you know, the Seahawks, the Rams, the, the real Buffalo
hopefully the Ravens, you know- Mm-hmm.
Right… the real Super Bowl contenders,the teams that are shooting for one
realistically, that- Yeah… thatreally actually think they can do it.
Everybody says they are, but, you know.

(46:45):
So- It's

Clinton (46:45):
it's August.
They all say that.

So.
Right.
So as far as Milroe goes, Ifeel like the first interception
is a play that's kind of handed tohim by the offensive coordinator.
I talked about it a little bit earlier.

Clinton (46:59):
Yeah.

A boundary side bunch, like it just doesn't stay that way.
You know?
It just doesn't.
As a, as a defensive person, mymindset is defensive, focusing
seeing the game from a defensive side.
I see an offense lined up, line up,and they're bunching to the boundary.
I'm like, "All right, we're gonnaget motion, so it's three by one now.
I know it's gonna end up two by two."
And it didn't.
You know, it's a running back- Mm-hmm,mm-hmm… to the field, and the

(47:20):
receiver kind of curling the middle.
A little bit of an unusual concept for me.
I, I feel like you just throw theball to the running back in the flats
and let him run onto it, and then- And

Clinton (47:29):
let me, let me stop, 'cause you, you mentioned it earlier, but like
I think your point there is that from acoach's perspective, what you're seeing
is they're giving him- A kind of a freesquare like, hey, go to the running back
because we're not balancing this out.
Yes.
And it's, it's g- it should be open in theflat because of the way this is set up.
So a bit of a free square that you thinkhe either missed or, or maybe ignored

(47:51):
if, if it- Yeah… if it's worse.
I

could be wrong.
I could be wrong.
And then, and like the

Clinton (47:54):
receiver route- But that's what you're seeing though.
Did I capture that?
Yes.
Okay, cool.

Yes.
Yes.
That's…
The receiver route even is liketaking you to the middle of the field-
Right… so if the inside linebackerr- goes with the back to the field
that's not a field side concept.
That-

Clinton (48:06):
Mm-hmm

with one receiver and the running back, that's
a boundary side concept.
And so, it's not snag flat, it'slike curl flat, but the receiver's really
running in the middle of the field.
You know, so I feel like hecould throw that football.
And then the, the actual throw that heattempts later on to 87, I mean, that
r- get the ball to more towards themiddle away from that linebacker- Right

(48:27):
and you've got a catch, right?
Yeah.
You move on.
And then conversely, the otherinterception that's late, I n- I know
it's, you know, really late in thegame, he makes a good decision.

Clinton (48:37):
Yep.

He looks, Milroe looks to his left, and the nickel DB kind
of hedges on a little under, underroute by number one, so the nickel's
gonna be able to react to that.
So okay, moves on.
Boom, moves on.
And then comes back to the otherside, and I think that throw is there.
There's lane- Yeah… space for it,and it's just moving to his right.
So, what'd you saythe gentleman's name was?

(48:58):
Mookie Alexander from Field Gulls?
That…
Oh

Clinton (48:59):
yeah, Mookie.
Yes, on, on Field Gulls.

Yeah.
Correct.
Yeah.
So I mean, that's j- you know, hey,all of your throws are not gonna
be stationary with your feet under.
You're gonna have to get like a major…
I always say quarterbacks are likea Major League Baseball shortstop.
Mm-hmm.
They gotta be able to throw movingto the right, moving to the left
retreating, coming forward, youknow, underhand, sidearm, whatever.
And it looks to me like maybeMilroe His accuracy, widens or

(49:25):
he becomes less accurate the morethat he's moving side to side.
And so there's less control overhis body positioning, perhaps
his u- usage of the lower half.
to some extent when you'removing to your side, the lower
half becomes nonexistent.
It, it doesn't matternecessarily, it's all upper half.
And so that throw to me, that,that was disappointing 'cause

(49:46):
I'm like, "That guy's open."
Mm-hmm.
You know?
I'm talking about the second interception.
Yep

Clinton (49:49):
for sure.
For sure.

that one really bother- really bothered me.
I felt like ball positioning,ball location, excuse me, was
an issue as well later on.
The incompletion to Arroyo in thethird quarter is not a bad throw.
It's not.
It's against the will linebacker, it'sthe right decision, let's take it.
But, I feel like that ball couldbe another foot or foot and a half
or two feet further to let Arroyocatch it and the will not make a play.

Clinton (50:12):
Yeah.

The one to White, 82 White- Yep
that's up the right sideline-Yep… that ball's under-thrown.
That ball's under-thrown in my opinion-Yeah… and, and not in a good spot.
That, that brings the DB back into play.
H- the DB's at a deficit in myopinion, and you brought the DB, you
did him a favor instead of that ballbeing further towards the sideline
or even a little bit more up field.
Does that make sense?

Clinton (50:33):
Oh, it totally does.
And I, I thought, you know, Adam agreedwith, agreed with you that it was
under-thrown when we looked at it live.
And I, I was a little more criticalof, of Cody 'cause he kind of had a…
not, not a great game, but, youknow, he's been a good Seahawk.
now it not being a great ball,Cody's still a big wide receiver so go…
you know, you get a 50/50 chance,go up, go up there and make a play.
Mm-hmm.

(50:53):
That's what you're paid for.
But-

Aggressively go

Clinton (50:55):
after it, right.
But yeah.
And, and but to your point…
but he, but he missed it,and that happens also, right?
Mm-hmm.
I mean, the, the best drop,drop a ball sometimes.
But, but to your point, therewas enough, enough, unfortunately
consistency, and this is a negative, ofMillroad j- just missing the mark over
and over again with ball placement.
And, and that's- Right… and, you know- Water… and we're

(51:15):
gonna- Water net dispersal- Yeah.
Right, right… of where the ballsare and where they need to be.
You know, I think when a hurricane'scoming to shore, they got the
cone of indifference, right?
So you got that big old cone.
It's a little wide for what youwant from an NFL quarterback.
Now, the nice part is I think theSeahawks are gonna be patient again
and realize the guy has lots of talent.
And if these are things-Yeah… if, if the execution is…

(51:36):
I mean, if the decision-making ismainly good, like you said, the first
interception, you, you know,you, you said it very clearly, you
don't think that was a good decision.
And I, now hearing your point of viewand understanding what you see from, you
know, your vantage point and experience,that's really cool to understand.
and I, you know, I agree with you.
I'll say, "Hey man,that makes sense to me."
But most often it's like, okay, thedecision-making was actually pretty good.

(51:59):
He just misexecuted.
And I realize you don't always makeup that gap But sometimes you do.
You know, sometimes in the NFL youcan- Yeah… sincerely improve there.
And so, you know, I'll take away fromthis conversation that the concept for
I think, most Seahawks fans are like,"Hey, we don't need to rush this."
That we just came off a stint with GenoSmith and now Sam Darnold, so maybe of all

(52:23):
the organizations in the league who wannabe patient with a quarterback, maybe we
should have a little bit more grace in…
So that's where I fall right now.
But the- Yeah, that

makes sense

… Clinton (52:32):
but the echo chamber or the, the, the chorus is getting louder
about, "Hey, he's not gonna be the guy."
So it's…
The nice part is there's anothergame coming up, actually on Friday
with Kansas City, so yes, it'll be avanilla Spags, but Spags vanilla is
still a, a, a banana split comparedto some, some coaches out there.
So that'll be s- really coolto see, what Milroe can do.

(52:54):
I think he's gonna get the majorityof those snaps, so that'll be
something to watch as well.
So well, Coach, it has been, it's beenabsolutely fantastic having you on here.
This has been a great primer.
You mentioned the Arroyo video that youjust got done, so I'm assuming that'll be
up on your channel- Mm-hmm… ASAP.
This is probably gonna go out,we're recording this on Thursday.
No, that's not correct at all.
It's Tuesday.

(53:14):
Tuesday.
Coach, I wish it was Thursday.
Recording this on Tuesday.
this is probably gonna goout tomorrow, on Wednesday.
So I bet the Arroyo video will behitting your channel there soon.
What else you got coming?
It went up while

we were recording this.

Clinton (53:25):
Oh, there.
Perfect.
We're recording this- So anybody watchingthis now that hasn't gone, gone, gone
over there yet, you see it on screen.
For those that are not onscreen, just go search All 22
NFL Film, out on YouTube.
You'll see his channel nearlygetting to 50,000 subs.
So you got the Arroyo video c- already up.
any other Seahawk stuff thatyou got, fixing to do heading

(53:47):
into game three of the preseason?

Yeah, I was probably gonna have something up about Milroe and Lock.
I just, I had only cut about 8or 10 plays, talking about
some of the issues we discussed.
I will mention this, thatI think the carryover from
Darnold being in San Francisco-

Clinton (54:02):
Yeah

one season, '23, I, I think.

Clinton (54:05):
Yeah

I think that's right.
Then Minnesota '24.
Yep.
Then Seattle last year.
And then Darnold and Milroe beingin the same quarterback room last
year, there is the opportunityfor Milroe to have, by proxy-

Clinton (54:16):
Absolutely

a connection to, Fleury in terms of the terminology relationship.
I think the ratio might not beone to one, Kubiak to Fleury.
it might be
1.2
to 1 or 1.08
to 1, something like that.
And so I think that's important isthat there's a lot of carryover.
in my opinion, the 49er systemin some ways is a little bit easier

(54:43):
on quarterbacks with certain things.
I'll link, I'll send you the link.
You can put it up if you want.
Kurt Benkert, a former NFL quarterbackwho breaks down the game really quickly.
He's got instant recognition ofthings, and he played for LaFleur
and he played for Shanahan,as he was in those quarterback
rooms, and he knows the systems.
A amazing point he made a coupleof years ago, I will send you

(55:06):
the link and you can share it-

Clinton (55:07):
Please

about the difference between the 49er structure and the, and the
and the Fleury, maybe even McVay system.
And in, and that way it could,theoretically should, help out a guy
like Milroe to have to do a littlebit less pre-snap, if you will.
So, I think what really needs tohappen is he needs to have a good game.
He needs to play well-

Clinton (55:25):
Mm-hmm

you know, to change the opinion of Seahawks fans, who
deservedly so, they wanna see progress.
They wanna see momentum and movingforward, and he, you know, he does need to
demonstrate that, in particular preseasongame again- week three, you know, given
who he's gonna be facing and who he's not.

Clinton (55:41):
Yeah.
Well, I love all that.
We will definitely put that linkin the, in the description, so
watch, watch for that in this video.
Coach, we would love, love, love to finda week mid-season at some point to bring
you back in to kind of do it again, andsay, "Okay, what are we seeing now?"
And we also know like, "Hey, thankyou for coming on and talking the
offensive side of the ball mostly."
We know that you really love thedefensive side of the ball, so that'll

(56:02):
be interesting to check in too, becausecan a Super Bowl champion be on a path
to repeat, and what does Mike Macdonaldgotta do to stay a step ahead of an NFL
that catches up really, really quickly?
You know, so that'll be- Absolutely

man.

Clinton (56:15):
Look forward to it.
That'd be great… that'dbe a really great…
Yeah.
That'd be great to have you back.
Coach, have an amazing start to your year.
Good luck to your Ravens.
I hope…
Look, if we could sign for itnow, Ravens, Seahawks, down
at SoFi, I'll buy you a beer.
How about…
How's that sound?
That'd

be great, man.
Appreciate it.

Clinton (56:28):
All right.

Thanks guys for your time, and thanks for having me once again.

Clinton (56:30):
Of course.
All right.
Thank, thank you, coach.
And to everybody else, go Hawks.

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