Seahawks-Cowboys Preseason Preview: Terrion Arnold, Milroe, and Roster Battles

Our Super Bowl champion Seattle Seahawks kick-off the pre-season this Saturday vs. the Dallas Cowboys and there are a LOT of major story lines we are focused on. The Terrion Arnold signing at the start of the show has us weighing the on-field talent against the off-field questions, Jadarian Price's availability is up in the air, and there are position battles to keep an eye on. We break down what to expect from Jalen Milroe as he competes for the QB2 job, dig into the offensive line battle at right guard, and who should we be cheering on in the fullback competition. Plus, we're forced to look at what Dallas brings to the table, including Caleb Downs and Sam Howell, and a rundown of our personal preseason "crushes" to watch for across the roster. 

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Episode Transcript

Brandan (00:10):
Hello, and welcome to the Sea Hawkers Podcast.
I'm your host, Brandan Schulze,and today I am joined by a
couple of my good buddies.
We've got Clinton Bonner, we've got Mr.
Phil Lydik.
This is almost a what if show, so I don'tknow why I'm doing the, the intro, but
maybe not your traditional what if, Phil,because we're just previewing our team.
This is the pre-season,this isn't regular season.

Phil (00:32):
That's right.
It's real fake football is coming, but, so what if we have some football
but we're not really previewing theCowboys much since who knows what
they're gonna throw on the field.
We don't even know necessarily whichplayers of ours will be on the field.

Brandan (00:47):
No, Clinton, it's gonna be…
That, that's gonna be part ofthe excitement of finding out.
And, you know, we got a littlebit of it, a, a little bit of a
taste last week with the Hall ofFame game, which I didn't watch.
But- … we have actual team-This feels like today, with it being
Thursday, we have actual games,pre-season games with real teams, not
fake teams like the Arizona Cardinals.

(01:09):
it, it feels like the actualstart of pre-season tonight, Clint.

Clinton (01:12):
It does feel that way.
We're only two days out from realfootball, and, boys, I, I, I'll bring
this back up because, you know, hey,look, how about them Seahawks, right?
Because the reason I bringthis up, of course, and yes, we
want the likes, what's- It's a

Brandan (01:25):
catchphrase that's well known to-

Clinton (01:26):
Yeah, it is
Seahawks

Brandan (01:28):
fans.

Clinton (01:28):
You know-

Brandan (01:28):
How about them Seahawks?

Clinton (01:29):
A team that used to be called America's Team, you
know, that used to enjoy that, butthey haven't won a chip since the
'90s, and that's the way it goes.
Kind of like the 49ers, when youthink about it in a lot of ways, right?
I'm not sure which franchisemight be, less, less of, but
all I know is that, boys, we, I'llfly through it, that we're still the
Super Bowl champions, not the Rams.

(01:51):
Still not the Rams.
It is us.
We are Super Bowl champions untilthey take it away from us, which
I think we have a very good shot,a very good shot of repeating.
We are gonna get into really the folks,the players, the positions, the battles
that we're most intrigued to lookat, and we know, boys, we understand.
Look, most players won't be playing inthis game that are gonna be the starting,

(02:15):
the starting 22, just the way it goes.
But there's lots of implicationsfor what will shape the 53 and then
the ready squad and everything, andthe depth of this team, we're gonna
get to see that, I think, shine.
So very excited for that, and we do havea couple of news and notes very, very
quickly before we get into it, guys.
The, first thing here from GreggBell out on Twitter, just, discussing

(02:38):
that Jadarian Price, this is…
He did not practice today.
So we're live right now on Thursday.
He practiced yesterday, but yesterdaywas really like a shirts, a T-shirt and
helmet walkthrough from what I understand.
Did not practice again today.
So this is a player that I bet allthree of us were like, "I can't wait to
see Jadarian Price on Saturday night."

(02:59):
Phil, we might not get to seeJadarian Price on Saturday night.
What are you thinking, dude?

Phil (03:04):
I did not want to see him at all really-

Clinton (03:06):
Hmm
…Phil: have our running back out there much for pre-season.
Maybe just get him in for, youknow, a couple reps on the next
one, but I, I just don't wantrunning backs out there getting hit.
I mean, Mike Macdonald can't cuss out theother team if they try to hit him wrong.
So, I'd prefer to maybewait for the regular season
for the most part for Price.
Also, on the Cowboys, didn't Ihear that since them boys have been

(03:29):
to the championship, every otherNFL team has gone since the last
time they were in a conference, championship in, in the NFL?
Wow.
Is that right?
Is that right?
It feels right.
I don't know.
I, I don't know, but it kind offeels, it's been a long time.
Every other team?

Phil (03:44):
Ev- even the Cardinals.

Clinton (03:46):
Well, did the

Phil (03:47):
Browns go?
Yeah, have the Browns- Right … havethe Browns been since the-

Brandan (03:49):
Lions?

Phil (03:51):
Yes.

Clinton (03:52):
Hmm.
Okay.
Bro- I, I don't think the Brownshave gone to a championship, right?

Phil (03:57):
They used to go all the time when they would lose to
LA and stuff, but that's a while

Clinton (03:59):
back.
Right, right.
But that was, like, '80swhatever with Kosar, right?
So I-

Phil (04:03):
Maybe it's just the NFC Could be Maybe I need to look it up.
Maybe it's just the NFC.

Clinton (04:07):
Yeah.
Well, that sounds likea Cowboys problem to me.
Brandan, if we don't have Jadarian Price, you happy or sad?
Are you okay with, "Hey, thedude just needs to rest maybe"?

Brandan (04:17):
I, it's, it's more of a thing of I really want to see it,
but I don't know if I have tosee it, if that makes any sense.
I Because I guess where I'm moreconcerned about the running back depth
is a little bit further down the chart.
Hmm.
So it's, it's pre-season game one.

(04:39):
I know I want to see everybody outthere, but, my expectations based
on previous seasons has been set,and I, I just want everybody to be
ready and healthy to go come week one.

Clinton (04:52):
Yeah.
We're gonna get a heavy day…
a heavy dose of, down, down the chart, running backs, but it's actually,
I think, a pretty good sneaky room.
The other piece that we havehere is, that Puka Nacua,
started practice again today andthen left practice again today.
So pulled out again.
This is…
It's basically a, a…
Before they were saying, you know,I think they were saying, like, back

(05:14):
or whatever it was last week, but it's,it's clearly now a hip flexor from what
the doctors are saying out there on, onTwitter and the folks that are reporting.
And, you know, s- seems minor andall that jazz, but, look, and
we don't play them till Christmas.
I…
But, you know, reporting on Nacua'shealth and his very tumultuous
off-season, Phil, it's a…

(05:35):
And the way the Rams haveto start the season, their
first five games are not easy.
you know, maybe this team isjust a little bit old, and maybe,
Phil, they shouldn't be crownedSuper Bowl champions in August.
I don't know.

Phil (05:49):
I mean, I don't know if the Rams are old, but Josh talks about
Puka could miss the entire seasonin chat there, and he wouldn't cry.
You know, most of the time I don'twant anybody to be hurt or I feel
bad if they're hurt, but, but peoplethat bite other individuals, I just
don't really care if they're hurt.
In fact, he's one of the hardestguys for us to defend, so if, if

(06:10):
he's out, I, I mean, I'm fine ifhe misses the end of the season.
He can come and play for a few weeks,but if he misses the end of the season, I
won't be sad one bit, honestly, Clinton.

Brandan (06:18):
Yeah.
Also, if we're gonna go with anickname for Puka, I, I think
you have to go Nacua over Puka.

Phil (06:26):
Yeah.
Nacua.
Yeah.
Puka, Nacua.
I don't

Brandan (06:28):
know.
I like, I like Nacua better.
I…
We can, we can leave outthe, the pukiness.
But, we have breaking news, guys.
We do.
Jordan Schultz just tweeted outthat the Seahawks are expected to
sign Terrion Arnold, and we saw that-Whoa … at the end of Hard Knocks.
How about that?
So,- Whoo … how, how arewe feeling about that news?

(06:48):
Because I, I think that- It'sinteresting that they brought him in.
We, we've, I know we've had somediscussions in Discord about the number
of- Yeah … charges that are facing, Terrion Arnold and, or that
Arnold is facing and how he might…
He's, he's someone who may not beavailable because the NFL could

(07:10):
say, "Hey, you're, you're on thenon-football injury list" and, so
Seahawks rolling the dice a little bit.
And I don't know, Phil, does that saysomething about our cornerback depth and,
that they're bringing in someone likeArnold to, and, and whether or not we
see him in the first preseason game now?

Phil (07:29):
A lot to unpack with what you implied there, Brandan, but you
know in Discord you and I were bringingup the fact that if John's interested
in bringing in this particularcorner, he seems kinda concerned.
There's, there's a lot of signs thathe's getting something from the coaching
staff that we need to get another guythat can get some real snaps out there.

(07:51):
Not that they won't play the guysthat they have if that's what they
get, but they obviously tipped offJohn that an upgrade would be great.
Also, an opportunity like thisdoesn't just come along so easily
right before the season where youhave a player that can really play
is available, and it's sometime earlyOctober, early October until he's

(08:11):
gonna stand before the judge and getsome idea of how his case is gonna go.
You would hope the NFL would waitto pass judgment until judgment
has been passed, so to speak.
And maybe John has some kind ofindication, or they're gonna write
it into the contract in some kindaway, you know, to, to be ready s-
in case something like that happens.

(08:32):
Obviously they'd have to make someallowances, risk it a little bit,
or he could've been signed by theGiants, somewhere else like that.
Maybe Milroe had something to sayabout encouraging him to come here,
this is the right place to play.
There's all kinds of things we don't know.
We just kinda try to guess basedon the breadcrumbs that we have.
But player-wise, I thinkthis is an upgrade for us.
I did want him if he, ifhe isn't a felon, right?

(08:55):
Then I did want him.

Clinton (08:57):
Yeah.
that's, that's awesome.
I think in, in the sense that, hey,the, it's super low risk and if it turns
out that they just can't play him forlegal reasons, then, you know, I'm sure
contractually that they'll, that's it.
They'll let him, they'lllet him g- they'll walk.
Yeah.
but I think, I think he gives you avery intriguing player, all the talent's
there, and you don't often get a chanceto go get what is first round caliber

(09:22):
talent at a proven blue chip school thatwas taken in the first round where the
Lions traded, they traded up for him.
They, I think they- Yeah … tradedup like five spots to go get him.
That's right.
They were surprised he was there still.
And, so all those things,this is not an old dude.
This is the 2024 draftwe're talking about, right?
So not very often you get a, you geta, basically a free square on what's a

(09:45):
blue chip line- c- cornerbackin a cornerback world, guys, where
Gonzo's holding out for more money,still, you know, like not, not resigning
his, his extension and the rumor ishe wants to be like prepaid with like
inflation baked in, in some contractualthing that keeps him at the top.

(10:05):
So Spoon's agent is the same asGonzo's agent- Yeah … so, now
Spoon's not saying that or his side'snot saying it, but it is interesting
that Gonzalez's agent is saying it.
and as far as I know, contractsdon't work like that, Brandan.
I'm not sure you just keep getting,you know, I- I'm first always.
I'm not sure that's how it works.

Brandan (10:26):
Not always.
But, y- you said all the talentin the world, but obviously Arnold
didn't have enough talent that theLions were willing to hang on to him.
They, they had, they saw thereports, they knew the charges, and
then they decided to let him go.
So, obviously maybe not the levelof t- you see some teams stick around
with a guy who, has significantcharges and, a- and decide to let

(10:51):
the legal process play out, right?
We've seen that before.
Shoot- Yeah … I think we'rewatching that with, with
Puka down with the Rams, right?
So, and then- I think therewas- … obviously those charges
not as serious maybe- Yeah … as, a- as, Terrion Arnold's.
But I think the reason why you bringhim in is to decide whether or not…

(11:12):
I, I, I've talked to folks that doa lot s- of draft evaluation, right?
And one of the things that teams seemto look for is if a guy has something
in his past, you wanna find out if,the, and, and, if they're kind of a
knucklehead or if they're a, a bad dude.

Clinton (11:31):
Yeah.

Brandan (11:32):
Yeah.
And I think that- This signals to us thatat least they're, they're comfortable
with the idea that, yeah, okay, theremight be some knuckleheadedness that
led to felony charges, but maybe he'snot a bad dude level of felony charges.
So they're willing to, again, based ondepth and- Yeah … the culture that they

(11:53):
have, and maybe John Schneider feels like,"Hey, I've got some, equity built up
here coming off of a Super Bowl win thatI can go ahead and make a move like this."
And among the fan base, yeah,there's probably gonna be some people
scratching their heads, but, basedon what we've done, yeah, I- I've
built up a, a little equity here.

Phil (12:14):
Yeah.
My wish cast is the Lions justleapt to a bunch of conclusions
and like, "Oh, this is really bad.
We gotta get him away from our,our team brand, team name," and
right away they just snap judgment.
And then Schneider started hearingfrom a lot of people that this is a
good character guy, maybe got caughtup in a situation, got emotional.
Hopefully there's some lesson learning.
If you ever hear Arnold talk inkind of his manner, he has a lot

(12:36):
of Spoon mentality to him actually.
I mean, obviously Spoon's got aimpeccable character and history.
with Arnold doesn't necessarilyhave that right now, but the
energy there is very exciting.
And some of the tape,there, there's a ceiling.
I agree with Josh though.
It's not like they're just…
And I don't think it'll happen.
It's not like they're just gonna handhim cornerback three spot, but they're
gonna say, "We need some competition here.

(12:57):
Go out and prove it that you're readyto, to be that CB3," 'cause CB3 gets
about 70-ish percent of the snaps.
It's a very, very importantposition on our team.
It is.

Brandan (13:07):
Yeah, and a post here from Jordan Schultz, who broke the news
about the signing, just a fewminutes ago, says, "Terrion Arnold is
close friends with Seahawks quarterbackJalen Milroe, who gave the organization
positive reviews about the type of personArnold would be in the Seattle building
and how he would fit their culture."

Clinton (13:25):
Love it.
Love,

Brandan (13:26):
yeah.
There you know Milroe had- All good… did have a little bit to do with that.

Clinton (13:29):
I did see you flash this on screen earlier, but I
wanna, you know, about our culture-Nice … got, got ZeroHawk here, a
great, human in, in his own right.
So Mark, thank you.
A $10 Super Chat, and he's, youknow, he under- he feels the pain,
guys, as being a Seahawks fan.
He says, "I am stoked.
It seems so long sincewe hoisted the Lombardi.
Can't wait to see ourdepth and rookies shine."

(13:50):
And I think thank you, Mark.
That's amazing.
We appreciate you, and I think thatis a perfect segue to take us into
the topic of the show, guys, whichis we do play a game in two days.
I doubt, Terrion Arnold will play.
I can't imagine he'sready that, that quickly.
I don't know.
maybe, but I, I don't think so.
we'll see.
But we do have lots of other playersthat we'll be getting that are either

(14:13):
rookies or maybe second or third-yearguys that may be getting their chance
to make that impression on the field.
And hey, everything we've seen so farin camp, all the good buzz, all the,
all the storylines, a lot of timeshappening without pads, always happening
where you can't actually go full tilt.
We all saw that with Derick Hallgetting a little too close for

(14:34):
comfort for Macdonald's sake with,with, quarterback Sam Darnold.
But now they get to go hit for real.
So i- it's some players just turnit on when the lights turn on, and-

Brandan (14:45):
Yeah … we're gonna see.
But how much are we gonna see Derick Hall?
I hope we at least get to get him outthere for a couple snaps just so he
can get some of that energy out that's,that's been building up through camp.

Clinton (14:54):
That's funny.
We, we probably won't see one snapof Derick Hall, but if we do, let
him, let him get a sack, or lethim, let him get it all out there.
Let him do Minotaur-like things.
We probably won't get a s- a singlesnap of Derick Hall, but that's okay.
Well, where do you guyswanna take it first?
I mean, is there particular players,sides of the ball, position groups?
Phil, this is, kind of a pseudowhat if, so why don't you take honors?

(15:18):
who are you most interested in reallystudying and monitoring on Saturday?

Phil (15:22):
Well, I got a lot of things circled, but it turns out the one with
the biggest circle, it's the same nameI had going into preseason last year.
And I'm, I, I guess if we wannastart right there, who do we
wanna see most in preseason?
It's our quarterbackthat's trying to ascend.
I think Jalen Milroe, we'rehearing some good things.
Let's see what kind of improvements Milroehas made by being on the team for a year,

(15:44):
getting some NFL coaching, maybe learningto spin it from Sam a little bit, how
to handle, some things at the line.
I just kinda, I kinda wanna see hisleadership out there on the field.
I wanna see his decision-making.
I'm not so much to think- Thatall these players, I do have a lot of
them where they're direct competition,'cause it's all we're gonna get to see.

(16:05):
But I'm not so much to think that thepre-season games we get to see will fully
determine who makes the roster or even bethe biggest piece of who makes the roster.
So I'm not watching it like that otherthan just to discover some things.
But Milroe fascinates me becauseit could mean a lot of good things
for our future if he's showinghimself to have, NFL chops.

(16:25):
He won't get his starting line,he's not gonna get to throw to JSN.
There's no way, you know, he's gonnay- gonna throw to really the top guys.
But how he's handling, how he's spinningit, I think there's a lot to see from
Milroe on these pre-season games.

Brandan (16:39):
Yeah, I think that's a, a great starting spot because
as we've heard some of the…
It, it seems like, and Adam's pointedthis out in multiple shows, throughout
the off season, it seems like every timethere's a trade conversation that, "Oh,
the Seahawks should make a trade," it'sbec- it's Milroe that's a part of it.
And, that seems a little bit silly,but I, it al- it does speak to the idea

(17:02):
of there's, there are still a lot ofteams out there that need a quarterback.
Yeah.
And so if we are quarterback rich, this'llbe the time to find out just how wealthy
we are in terms of quarterback depth.
If Jalen Milroe comes in and is,you know, putting up big numbers in
year number two in the pre-season- Yeah

(17:23):
then that, that could help,bolster the argument that we've heard
from people that, "Oh, well maybe weneed to get draft capital for him."

Phil (17:30):
How good of a pick would you have to get to b- make
you interested though, Brandan?

Brandan (17:35):
Oh,

Phil (17:35):
I mean- You're not getting anything more than like a seventh
for the hose or a sixth from a needyteams, and that doesn't matter.
So how much for Milroebefore you start to be

Brandan (17:42):
interested?
Oh, there's the…
I d- I don't think that a teamwould be willing to offer up enough
to where it would really makesense for where the team is at.
I, I think that, yeah, unless…
I, having a valuable backup quarterbackor having a, just a competent
backup quarterback is valuable.
Which we have.
And- Yeah … we have that inDrew Lock, so- Yeah … it,

(18:04):
it does make it expendable.
But I, we haven't had a, a quarterbackthat- We've really been interested
in developing for … You can'teven really count it with Russ
because he developed so quickly thathe was our starting quarterback.

Clinton (18:21):
No.

Phil (18:22):
No, that's right.

Clinton (18:23):
I'd be, I'm, I'm, I'm totally team let's not move,
let's not move on from Milroe.
if he sizzles in the preseason, Ibrought this up last time, maybe it,
maybe you start to examine if you canmove Locke to a very needy team that
needs a, needs a really good backup.
but again, Phil, likeyou're saying, how much are
you actually gonna get for him?

(18:43):
most likely scenario, wejust have our three dudes.
What I wanna see from Milroe, andit sounds like he's gonna get a, you
know, a, a plenty of time to go playon Saturday- Yeah … which is awesome.

Phil (18:53):
Yeah.

Clinton (18:53):
You know, what I wanna see is I think he could process.
I, I think, Adam did a great joband, and Brandan you as well when you
guys covered a couple years ago, thatMilroe could process pretty well.
He has the skillset, and it looks likehe's evolved and gotten, gotten sharper
as people are saying in this, thisoff-season versus last off-season.
Things have slowed down a little bit.

(19:13):
All good.
look, I think Milroe uses themiddle of the field very nicely.
I think he's got enough accuracySometimes it's that lack of touch.
That's like the, the one thingthat I'd like to see, the, the,
the, the touch passes towardsthe outside, outside the hashes.
Inside, you wanna zip it in.
You're not really doing touch toomany times between the hashes.

(19:36):
You just gotta drill the ball in there.
the outs and the flat stuff,drilling the ball in there, no problem.
I'd like to see that next like thingclick where everything doesn't have
to be like on an absolute, you know,line drive from deep shortstop.
You know, that's gotta-That's right … get there.
Just a little bit of touch on thethings to the outside, and I think
we're seeing it in, at the VMac, andnow we gotta see it under the lights.

(19:59):
If we see that click also, and thena little bit more, awareness and
progression, not bailing so soon, cool.
I don't think he gets fearful andbails on a pocket like, you
know, some quarterbacks might.

Phil (20:11):
Yeah.

Clinton (20:12):
I think he's got such great legs that if he doesn't see
his one or two, he's confidenthe can go get five, six yards.
Not a bad thing, but in the NFL,if it breaks down a little bit and
you could give yourself literallyanother half second or second,
dudes do come unglued and get open.
So let's just see.
Like, it's gonna be a lot of fun tosee, to see what he can do, and

(20:33):
I'll quickly s- flip it over here.
Not, not that we're gonna talkabout the Cowboys too much, but I
think it'd be remiss not to mentionthat we might get a healthy dose
of seeing Caleb Downs out there.
Mm.
And the Caleb Downs buzz abouthim at safety position, he
kind of fell to the Cowboys.
You know, O- Ohio State standout.
Everything that you go readabout him is like they wanna use

(20:55):
him as like their Iman Worley.
So it'll just be…
He's number 13.
Mm.
Yeah.
It'll be very interesting to bewatching a top, top tier rookie,
and how will they deploy him?
And if, and if Milroe's a- outthere, can, can he get the better of
Caleb Downs in a couple of matchups?
just something to watch on theother side of the ball, too, guys.

Brandan (21:15):
I can't believe you brought up Caleb Downs' name as someone to
watch before we even get to mentionBud Clark, who was- Well, it's,

Clinton (21:21):
it's

Brandan (21:21):
the-
our second overall pick inthe- In- … in our rookie

Clinton (21:25):
class … in, in the system of watching how our quarterback does
against a guy that I think is a legit ImanWorley type player, so 'cause they could-
I- … cause a lot of, lot of tumult.

Phil (21:37):
But something you said, Clinton, I love watching how a
quarterback's ball gets to a receiver.
I always have.
Mm.
And they kind of highlighted that on,a little bit, in Hard Knocks in a way.
Sam's ball, Gino's ball, they just…
And Russ had it.
You know, the, the guys that-connect with their receivers.
They know how to make the ball at thecatch point be nice and catchable.

(21:59):
You hear these guys, "He,he's hit them in the hands.
Why didn't he hit, whydidn't he catch it?"
Well, yeah, an NFL receiver shouldcatch what hits him in the hands, but
there is something different about aguy that just knows, and I'd like to see
Milroe get to that, to where there's…
You just see when thereceiver goes, the ball's…
I, I can't describe it perfectly,but it, it has a good rotation.
It has, like, a drop at thisis where it's supposed to get

(22:22):
to the receiver at this point.
It's not going through them likeyou're punching through somebody.
It's getting to the receiver at that spot.
I would really like to see some ofthat more from Milroe, and that's what
you meant by touch, I'm pretty sure.

Clinton (22:33):
Yeah.
That, that, that's absolutely it.
It is that arrival point-Yes … 'cause we watched last
year with, like, Sam and JSN.
By the time the ball, yeah, by the timethe ball's landing in JSN's, like, basket,
it looks, it, it looks easy to haul in.

Phil (22:47):
Yeah.

Clinton (22:48):
And it's, it's cl- evidence that, the Seahawks
receivers feel the same.
So it'll be very, veryfun to, to watch.
Now, like, look, I'll, I'llbring up another Cowboy.
You know who threw a nice ball likethat who, who was a Hall of Famer?
Troy Aikman.
Troy Aikman threw a ball that waslike, that thing just lands and it, it
lands- Yeah … the right kind of way.
So, I'm

Brandan (23:06):
done- I understand that we're playing the Cowboys, but like-

Clinton (23:08):
I'm done talking about

Brandan (23:09):
Cowboys.
we've, we've talked enoughabout the Cowboys already.
I want to see, this is our firstchance that we're getting to
see- Yeah … our Seahawks liveon television in the preseason.
I, I, the, the things I'm watching onthe Cowboys sideline are l- almost zero-
… compared to what I wanna see because- I

Phil (23:27):
thought he was gonna say something, but then he-

Clinton (23:29):
Yeah, me too.
But the, but, but it's, yeah,but he d- he didn't go there.
Who

Phil (23:31):
he was gonna watch on the Cowboys sideline, but the,
that this isn't an Dallas show.
I think, yes, the- Maybe he won't
…Clinton: yes, the Cowboy cheerleaders, for sure.
The, the Cowgirls, Ibelieve they're called.
All right, let's talk- They aren't

Brandan (23:40):
bringing them to Seattle.
I know.
We

Clinton (23:41):
have our own, so.
Let's

Phil (23:42):
talk- What about Neal, Brandan?
That's who you wanna talk…
Are you, no, you wannatalk about Clark, right?
I wanna

Brandan (23:46):
talk about Clark, yeah.
Okay,

Phil (23:47):
do Clark.

Brandan (23:48):
Well, well, s- that's what I was getting to, and I, I think part of seeing
what Bud Clark offers in this game, italso is in part due to how much or how
little we see of Tayo Cara because- Mm-hmm
yeah, one of the things, we just generallydon't see a lot of starters- Yeah … get
snaps within the preseason, and TayoCara expected to be that guy who comes

(24:12):
in and, and fills that Kobe Bryant role.
But has he b- established himselfenough to miss out on too many
snaps within the preseason?
I- I think so … I think how man-I think so, too, but I think it'll
be, if we don't see him at all, I, Ithink that tells us something, right?
It tells us- Yeah … that he hasestablished himself enough that if he's

(24:35):
getting the, the same number of snaps asthe starters, which may be zero, then,
he's, he's with that crowd as well.
So, seeing Bud Clark out thereand how many snaps he might get.
B- just because, yeah, he was our topdefensive player that we selected, and
on a team that is stacked on defense.

(24:56):
Like, that, that part legitimatelyexcites me, is I, I wanna see Bud
Clark out there and what they see,what Coach Macdonald has seen in him.
Are, are we going to see him in asimilar light as a, a Nick Emmanwori
type, or are we gonna see him, more-Well, if- … of a traditional safety?

(25:19):
I, I, I wanna see exactly what typeof role, and maybe we aren't gonna get
enough of that really within the- Oh
preseason, but, I, I justwanna see some hints at it.

Phil (25:31):
What do you think, Clinton?
What, what do you thinkwe're gonna get from Bud?
I, I…
Do, do we think he's redshirtinga little bit this year?
Do you think the plan is we hopehe's not getting a lot of snaps,
and that if he does, that means, one of our starters is hurt?
Or do you think the expectationis he's gonna be playing a lot?

Clinton (25:46):
I don't, at, at this point, I don't think the expectation is that
he'll be playing a lot this year.
Yeah.
I d- I don't think so.
so I think it might be a littlepremature if, if he ends up on the
field quite a bit, I think it'sprobably due to, due to some injury.
Yeah.
but with that, you know, what do I…
Look, what I wanna s- what, whatI wanna see from safeties is

(26:07):
usually very, very consistent.
For me, l- safeties like Kobe Bryant wereextraordinarily good about, like, not
letting stuff behind him- Yeah … makingplays on the ball when he had chances.
Enough of a thumper.
He wasn't a huge thumper, but enoughof a tackler and a sure tackler.
And then when he needs to run fit,he was, he's very sound, right?

(26:29):
So I, the biggest thing I couldsee from Bud Clark is like,
okay, A, don't get burnt overthe top because you're a safety.
Yeah.
But also, I know that's simple,but don't let that happen to you.
But I, more importantly, I'm like,are you coming down the line and
hitting people when you need to?
Like, are you bringing your hat?
Are you a short, you sh- youknow, short enough tackler?
Are you, when you're coming down there,are you able to shed, shed dudes that

(26:54):
might be a tight end or a wide receiveron you, or a guard that's trying to get to
a second level and, you know, you're kindof s- a safety kinda crash down the box?
Yeah.
Are you able to shed those, meaningfully and stick your
hat in there and make tackles?
Because for me, on a MikeMacdonald defense, you have
got to be able to do that.
And, the rest of the athleticism of asafety, I think he's got that in spades.

(27:18):
So I wanna just see that kind oftoughness about him coming down and
making some plays and making some tackles.

Phil (27:25):
Here's what I wanna say about Bud.
My expectation, because this isn't onAmazon, is that we don't wanna see him
a lot because if we don't see him a lot,he's probably doing a fairly good job.
When you see a safety on the way,they annoyingly still just give you
a tiny piece of football even thoughwe have these awesome, you know, 21st
century giant screen TVs on our wall.

(27:48):
They still zoom in where all you seeis the line of scrimmage, and the short
outs, and the quarterback instead of thefield where all the football's happening.
When you see the safety, most of thetime it's not a good thing, especially
if he's gonna be playing deep safety.
So if we don't see Bud out there a loteven though he's in, that's probably good.
It is nice on run plays to see thathe knows where to fit, so you see

(28:10):
him come up and not out of place.
It is nice if there's a deep ballthat they're trying that you see
him in the location he needs to be.
most of the time if we saw Kobe,it's 'cause he was making a play.
A lot of the times you didn't see himall game unless it happened to be on
Amazon where they show football properly.

Clinton (28:26):
Yeah, it is pretty cool.
The Prime Vision is dope.
And real quick on safeties, year two,Max and Hook, who is from Toledo,
so Toledo ended up becoming thisplace where DBs are blossoming.
Just, just a guy to watch.
If you don't know Max and Hookyet, it's just, hey, you're
gonna see him on Saturday.
So if you're out there and you'relike, "Who the heck is Hook?"
Well, second year, Toledo guy, andrumors in camp are he's, he's pushing.

(28:51):
He's pushing to be the backup, versus Bud at this point.
And then you always got steak andbeer D'Anthony Bell who plays flex.
He'll play, he'll playcorner, he'll play…
You know, they kind offlex him around, so-

Phil (29:02):
Special

Clinton (29:02):
teams … we'll s-

Phil (29:02):
Yeah.

Clinton (29:03):
Yeah, we'll see what the mix is that they're gonna
do between Clark, Hook, Bell.
Look, you mentioned TyOkada earlier, Brandan.
Mm.
I think we're w- frankly prettydarn thin at the, at that position.
I don't wanna see Okada take a snap.
I…
No, thank you.
I'd rather see Pricetake a snap over Okada.

Brandan (29:21):
Yeah.
I, I don't think we'll see him much,but, gosh, just listening to Okada
through the pre-season, it's,…
That I, we have another Montana guyto root for, which makes me happy.

Phil (29:33):
Okay.

Clinton (29:34):
Yeah, yeah.
We, it's always good tohave more Montana boys.
They tend to play pretty good football.
Hard nose, for sure.

Brandan (29:40):
All right, so we got, we, we, we've got Phil's first, we've got
mine, and, that leaves you, Clinton.
Who, who is the top name that-

Clinton (29:49):
Oh

Brandan (29:50):
that you're looking to watch-

Clinton (29:51):
Yeah … on Saturday?

Brandan (29:52):
So,

Clinton (29:52):
like you guys know me.
so- Right … it's obviouslythird-string, Cowboys quarterback
and Seahawks legend Sam Howell.
He was, he'sgonna … We're gonna see him.
So, no, the, there's a couple,but I really wanna see Mason Richman.
Okay.
And-

Phil (30:07):
Yeah, I
have

Clinton (30:08):
him circled
yeah, and the reason being is, I,I don't know, or I don't think he's
gonna challenge, Bradfordfor that right guard position.

Phil (30:18):
No, no.

Clinton (30:19):
You know, I, I just, it doesn't seem like that's the leap that's
happening quite yet, but in the scrumthat is that, the Cabell Due, you know-
Yeah … area o- of the team, it appearsthat Richman is, accelerating.
And frankly, Christian- Yeah … Hayes,Haynes is still hanging around,
our, our UConn guy, year three.
So I wanna kinda see both of them and tryto get a, a, just a, a sizing of who's

(30:44):
got the best shot to be the next man up.
Because- Yeah … it's the NFL.
At some point, very likely, knock on allthe woods, one of the five dudes that are
starters are gonna have a week or two off.

Phil (30:56):
Oh,

Clinton (30:57):
yeah.
That's typically what happens.
It's very, very rare thatyou would go clean the entire
year with your starting five.
We know Josh Jones came in lastyear as a swing tackle and played
phenomenally well when Cross went out.
And it, it would be really niceto see both Haynes and Richman
play at, like, a solid levelthroughout, throughout the game.

(31:17):
So Brandan, that's it for me, man.
I think, I think Mason Richman's theone dude I really wanna see the most of.
Mm-hmm.

Brandan (31:24):
Yeah, I like the idea of seeing Richman.
I, I guess when I, I go to…
We, we've seen a little bit ofhim, so when it comes to the
offensive linemen, we only haveone rookie, and that's Bo Stevens.
Yeah.

Phil (31:38):
Mm-hmm.

Brandan (31:38):
And, and so he's probably the number one guy for me just
because I haven't seen him yet, andI wanna see- Yeah … what Bo Stevens
is about there, about out there.

Phil (31:48):
Well, there's only gonna be so many backups.
I mean, Josh says it on herethat Haynes has it locked up.
I'm thinking here, we got Bo Stevens,Mason Richman, Bryce Cabell Due,
Olu Olawotimi- Christian Haynes,two of those guys probably are
not going to be on the roster.
And, and when Adam and I did theshow about the sophomores, we talked

(32:09):
about Richman and Cabell-Doo.
I wasn't…
I kinda like them both, but I'mleaning more Richman is gonna make
it and Cabell-Doo might be tryingto get on the practice squad or he
might be snagged by somebody else.
Olu is a solid center, but future-wiseit's concerning to give up on three guys
that we all think could be solid backups.

(32:30):
That backup interior linemanposition is super important.
I mean, having all three of themplay all season, that would be
just getting a Yahtzee over andover, in a Yahtzee game.
It's just highly unlikely.
So who that's gonna beis very, very important.
It's someone that's gonnaget meaningful snaps.
So I had that circled with all those guys.
I'm just wondering of those fivewhich three are gonna make the

(32:54):
roster, and so maybe the preseasonwill help us get a little tip on that

Brandan (32:58):
Yeah, if I had to, I, I never really cared for what
I saw from Cabell do even-

Phil (33:04):
Yeah,

Brandan (33:05):
okay … before he was drafted by the team.
he was one of theguys that- So first round
we s- saw at Shrine Bowl and,you know, he had some athletic
upside, but it wasn't anything thatI think- So then it's- … stood
out even in the preseason last year.
So, yeah, obviously, Richmanhit my radar- It's over … when,

(33:25):
th- he, he didn't win the sledgehammercompetition, but,- … I, I
think based on his shakiness earlyon, he, he ended up, hanging
on well enough that,- Totally
you know, when we watched him on HardKnocks holding up those sledgehammers
that, that got me, alittle more interested in Richman.
But

Phil (33:42):
he looked, he looked good against Mills though, right?
I mean, he really held up onthe actual blocking portion.
Yeah.
Mills wasn't getting whereMills wanted to go, right?
Right.
Yeah.

Clinton (33:51):
Yeah, for sure, and that one-on-one c- like, you know, it's a clear
win by Richman, but- Yeah … that'sthe reports have been that he's,
Richman has looked like one of thebetter dudes in the one-on-one drills.
Which if you're an offensive lineman,the one-on-ones are, those are actually
really important, you know, drills.
That's like, okay, you're going upagainst this dude, you know, mano a
mano, and you don't have any support.

(34:13):
There's no chips, hence one-on-one.
so and Richman seemingly is, isdoing well in, in drills like that.
So again, let's see how,if he can translate it.
Yes, he's a y- a year two guy,but, you know, didn't get too
much, too much play last year.
boys, would you mind if werotate over to another blocking
type player, for a second?

(34:34):
Before we get

Brandan (34:34):
there, I, I need to address- Are you doing the one I want

Phil (34:36):
to do next?

Clinton (34:37):
Maybe.
I

Brandan (34:37):
need to address Michael Knight in the comments because- Okay.
… he says, "I want to winthe debate with Brandan.
Bo, baby, I need some Stephens.
Will he unseat our starting right guard?"
And Michael- I- … I'm, I, I'm talkingabout, Stephens even showing up as
being able to stick around as a backup.
Like I'm not looking at him as, attaking over,- Yeah … the,
right guard spot from Anthony Bradford.

(34:59):
Now that would be great ifhe does show up that way.
Like if I…
And I'll be, I'll happily lose theargument to you, Michael, if, if he
shows up in a big way and looks likehe can unseat Anthony Bradford through
a couple games in the preseason.
He, I, that's maybe part of the reasonwhy I'm watching him so closely in,
this game against the Cowboys.

Clinton (35:18):
I, I'm glad you parked there for a second and, and nice
comment there by Michael Knight.
Remember, do you guys rememberthe first preseason game last
year against the Broncos?

Phil (35:27):
I don't.
There was a lot of cool games since then.

Clinton (35:30):
Yeah.
That's just, that's true.

Phil (35:34):
We got a- Like a winning streak that we're still

Clinton (35:34):
on … yeah, yeah.
We don't have to slum it inthe, in last year's preseason.
But the, the, thing that justkind of came back to me from last
year was that we got to see Gray Zabelearly last year, and there was, we
ran the crap out of the ball- Yeah
that first preseason game, and it waslike, oh my gosh, Zabel's athleticism
is on display, and he's getting-Yeah … to the second level, and we're
stealing things around the corner.

(35:56):
So for Michael's, not so muchsake, but, but maybe, maybe we get
that kind of- Yeah … that kind ofBo performance, and it's like- Yeah
oh, dude.
Well, we

Brandan (36:04):
better because Zabel was hyping him up saying, "Oh, Bo might be ahead
of where I was my rookie season," which-

Clinton (36:09):
Yeah
…Brandan: I b- I don't buy that at all, but,- Yeah … if, if it's
true, then, I wanna see it.
Yes.
Me too.
Me too.
All right.
So now I think we can move on.
Phil, sounds like you are gonna go whereI was gonna go, so why don't you go
and we'll see if, we go together?

Phil (36:23):
We said we're talking blocking people.
Mm-hmm.
We just lost a guy who wasplanning to block on, say, 25-ish
percent of the snaps this season.
So we brought in somebody, I wish hisname was just Lamp, but we have- … to
pronounce the E at the end, so itruins all the fun that I was hoping to
have doing gifs in Discord this year.
But I'm hoping he's that good where wedo get some gifs on some killer Lampy

(36:47):
blocks be- boy, I wish it was Lamp.
But- So I, I've been lookingforward to this game.
That's my second one circled after Milroe,and I wanted to circle the guards as
well, 'cause I'm really curious whichones are gonna get to stick with the team.
I like Josh's idea of maybetrading Olu so that we can keep
Bo and keep, bringing him up.

(37:07):
But- After Jalen, the guy Iwanna see is Lampy out there.
I wanna see a guy that just knows how toplay some fullback, and I wanna see if
he will flourish in this Fleury system.

Clinton (37:19):
Ooh, I like that.
I'll, I'll pass to you real quick,Brandan, the, the piece of Josh,
DeHooman, who's hanging out with us rightnow, and, Josh Height, Field Gulls
contributor, he's hanging out with uslive right now too, along with Bryce.
What's up, what's up, Bryce?
Yep.
And, Josh posted the YouTubehighlights yesterday in- Yes … in
our Discord for Sea Hawkers Podcast.
And so then I, I wentand watched it finally.

(37:41):
And, you know, the…
He's, he's at NIU, at,Northern Illinois there.
He is doing the things, the half-orbitmotions, and he's in motion a lot.
And he's got soft hands.
And- Mm … now, and, the thingthat impressed me the most about the…
It's a highlight reel, I understandthat, but his positioning as a

(38:02):
fullback seemed really just sound.
Just, and-

Phil (38:05):
He's already a U's check.
He's already a U's check, right?

Clinton (38:06):
Well, well, you know, maybe so, maybe not.
But, but he looked, he lookedcompetent, and he know- it looks like
he really understands the position.
So playing four years of college,couple years the, in the NFL now,
I'm excited to watch Lampy.
I do hope that Fleury gets a pieceback that he might've lost with Utz.
That's all I really want, is, like,can he get, s- a really strong

(38:28):
fullback in the building again?
Because Brandan, I think Fleuryreally does want that in his offense,
considering where he came from and howmuch, how often the, the Niners would
put two running backs on the field.

Brandan (38:40):
I can't believe that you guys are ready to move on from Brady
Russell to some Patriots castaway, ahead of our, our special teams
legend, that can also play fullback.

Phil (38:54):
We've seen Brady Russell, we've seen Brady Russell try to play on offense.

Clinton (38:56):
I, yeah, I don't think…
I like Brady Russell as a human, andI like him as a- Yeah, he looks good.
Yeah … as a sp-special teamer, and- He's

Brandan (39:02):
gonna be on the team anyway, though … and, and- Why can't he
develop into being a, the bigger part-Well- … of the offense at fullback?
Well,

Clinton (39:09):
that's a fair point.
Mc- Macdonald will always say,and I've adopted this, you know,
"You're allowed to get better," right?
Yeah.
And Russell is a, a good athlete on, untohis own right, and he's- Yeah, he is.
He moves … an awesome human.
We just met his, met his wifetwo, two years ago now at, at
the, at the casino out there.
It was great people.
They, they had just gotten married.
Awesome people.
As a fullback, I don't see him, thechances we have gotten, I don't see

(39:32):
him with enough power to be a fullback.
Yeah, that's the

Phil (39:35):
thing.

Clinton (39:35):
And I just, I hope Lampy has more, but that's, that's
the biggest I don't know yet.
That's what I wanna see.
that's what I wanna seeSaturday, is, like, can he do
the thing, not just position?

Brandan (39:47):
Yeah, can he be cleating dudes and putting them- Can he…
Yes … on the ground and doing thingsthat, maybe Because if you, if you
aren't getting that from Russell orLampy, then you're talking about having
to use, some of the tight endsfarther down in the depth chart to- Yeah
to do those sorts of things.

Clinton (40:03):
Kalerup.
Yeah, that's,- Kalerup… that's, that's about right.

Brandan (40:07):
Hey, if they're gonna keep Kalerup around on this team, they
need to find some work for him too.

Clinton (40:10):
Well, Kalerup is the dude that is actually more like Utz, not sho- like
size-wise, but it's not shocking 'causehe's also a tight end like Utz was, right?
So it wouldn't be shockingif they're like, "Let's give
him some run at fullback."
with that, Lampy is actually afullback, so let's see what he can do.

Phil (40:28):
Clinton's just so he can't get away from the sadness
of Utz being gone for the-

Clinton (40:33):
I am sad about that
…Phil: gotta learn how to face it.
Look, I just will continue to say I think Utz is a different
type of athlete than those- Yeah
other dudes are.
In explosives, in his size,his mitts, his wingspan, he's
a different type of athlete.
he's injured, and that sucks,and I hope he gets healthy, but
the other dudes- Oh … on theroster are not the athlete he is.

Phil (40:53):
I did notice, Fleury, he just likes to have two guys back there.
So just- Yeah
because he's running, you know, not n-just 'cause he's running maybe 12 or 11
personnel, that doesn't mean he won'thave two guys come to the backfield.
He often will put, Kuppcould go back there, right?
He a- JSN could go back there.
In fact, if you got a lead blocker-Bo-Boi … and your lead blocker

(41:13):
turns out to be Kupp or Bobo,that's not even a bad thing either.
They handle their business okay.
So just because you're runningwhat would be called 11 personnel,
it doesn't mean that Fleury isn'tgoing to bring one of those guys
into the backfield with the H-back,with, with the running back himself.
So-

Brandan (41:32):
Yep.
Right
…Phil: I, I think
that's something- Yeah, you can scheme around it.
There's o- obviously, if, JSN'sin the backfield, he's not putting
anybody- No … in the groundeither, even though,- But get

Phil (41:41):
the best players on the field, right?

Brandan (41:43):
Right.
And- Well,

Clinton (41:44):
yeah.

Brandan (41:44):
Yeah … I don't know if we need to be, you know, three f- two, three
fullbacks deep on the roster- Yeah … for

Clinton (41:51):
53.
Probably not.
Probably not.
We have other, other areas likehaving three quarterbacks, for sure.
All right, well, wheredo we wanna go next?
How about you, Brandan?

Brandan (41:59):
Oh, gosh, okay.
So, I've talked about Bo Stevens.
I, I've ta- is there another rookie?
are we gonna get tosee Julian Neal out there?
I, I know that, I want to see him.
But,-

Phil (42:12):
I don't, he's questionable still.
Yeah.

Brandan (42:13):
Yeah.
We've, we've addressed the, thedepth at cornerback being an
issue with signing Terrion Arnold.
So,-

Phil (42:20):
What about Noah or, and, or-

Brandan (42:22):
Oh yeah, Noah Igbinoghene.
I…
And he's enough of a veteran,being seven years in.
Yeah.
I, well, I guess- Based on where heis on the depth chart, gosh, that
one's gonna be interesting just to seehow many snaps that he gets because
a veteran, but outside our system-

Clinton (42:41):
Yeah

Brandan (42:42):
how much are they going to use him, within the preseason?
Yeah, that, I, I could see thatbeing an interesting part of it.
And yeah, if we can see a littleIgbinoghene, maybe we can start
getting that name, drilled into ourheads, because I do think that he's going
to end up making this roster and,

Phil (43:02):
and- There's a couple bubble guys right there on
that corner, especially- Right
with our new signing.
It's gonna be-

Clinton (43:06):
Yeah
…Phil: interesting.
I, I think the, the potential-

Phil (43:10):
Pritchett, like-

Clinton (43:11):
Yeah, that, you just, you just named it right there.
I think the, the telltalewill be how, how confident is
Macdonald in Nehemiah Pritchett?
And I think a, a sign willbe do we see him at all?
Do we see Pritchett a lot?
You know, now- Mm.
Yeah … we just pushed out Arnold,so, like, seemingly Pritchett's

(43:33):
now battling with him as well for,for, you know, for playing time.
And- Neal, Pritchett,

Phil (43:37):
Igbinoghene
…Clinton: well, and, and also Dansby.
Dansby's b- been, been- Dansby … turningheads, in, in a positive way.
Two of those guys are
gonna make it.
So- Will

Clinton (43:43):
Free,

Phil (43:44):
I don't know.
Yeah.

Clinton (43:44):
Yeah, I, I don't know either.
It's so, so will we see a…
I, I guess what I'm trying to sayis if we see a lot of Pritchett
on Saturday, I'm not sure that'snecessarily a great thing for Pritchett.
Yeah.
Now he, he could take everyopportunity and be like, "No, I'm
gonna take this and be lights out.
Thank you for the opportunity."
But I'm not sure what thatvolume says from a coaching
perspective if we see a lot of it.

Brandan (44:07):
Yeah.
We've got Yokai Hawk in thechat saying, "Which players
wear the green dot on defense?"
Patrick.
Generally it's been the middle linebacker,so- O'Connell … Patrick O'Connell
would probably be the guy since he'sright behind Ernest Jones on the
depth chart at middle linebacker.
And, going into year four,yeah, I'd expect to see…
'Cause I don't even know ifO'Connell has made the 53 at,

(44:30):
when it's come to roster cuts.
Generally, he's made the team slippingto practice squad, and then, you know,
we've seen him throughout the season asthey brought him up from practice squad.
But I don't know if he's ever made thecut and been part of the f- initial 53.
Hmm.
So, this could be a year…
I…
Selfishly, I still wanthim on the team, but- Yeah.

(44:51):
… you know, if he gets cut, this,this could be a year where another team
goes and picks him up just based onthe level of experience that he has.
So, whether that's O'Connell, maybe wesee a little Tyrice Knight out there- Yeah
wearing the

Phil (45:05):
green dot

Brandan (45:05):
too, so.
Do you

Phil (45:05):
think Riley's gonna play?
Do you think R- think RileyMills will play a little bit?

Brandan (45:09):
I would, I would think- I would- … Riley plays a little bit, yeah.

Clinton (45:12):
I would think he gets a little run.
I think so.
It's

Phil (45:14):
the first preseason, right?
So.

Clinton (45:15):
Yeah.
I mean, absolutely.
And, and on the Patrick, PatrickO'Connell part, I am so comfortable.
Like, if, if he's ourlinebacker four, you know…
How many do we typically carry?
I don't really know.
Do we have like five?
Oh, you're talking

Brandan (45:28):
about Knight and O'Connell.
Yeah.
If you're talking about in-interior linebackers, yeah, four-

Clinton (45:32):
Okay.
Yeah … five max.
Yeah.
So I mean, yeah, the interior for sure.
Yeah.
So I'm so comfortable- Four
if he's our fourth linebacker.
He's good.

Phil (45:41):
O'Connell and, O'Connell and Knight, right?
That's who-

Clinton (45:43):
Well, and but Knight is, like, cemented.
Like, Knight- Yeah … frommy under- I mean, Knight is…
I mean, look, ev- every chance- Listen… I have so much respect for Tyrice Knight
after being, having a really good f-first rookie year, then losing his job
to Drake Thomas, who did awesome, right?
Totally.

Phil (45:59):
Great

Clinton (45:59):
camp.
And everything Tyrice Knight didwhen he got his opportunities
was just play good football.
He played r- Yeah … justdidn't make any noise.
And there's…
The, the pundits that are out thereare like, "Look, if, if Tyrice Knight's
on many other teams, the majority ofteams, he's starting in this league."
So I think, I, I think he's in bubblewrap with, with the other two dudes.

(46:19):
But man, Patrick O'Connellto me is, like, so valuable.

Phil (46:23):
Like- Does anybody have a shot at unseating
O'Connell for the fourth spot?
I mean, do we think that

Clinton (46:28):
Surratt or Chris Paul- You got, you got Chris Paul and Surratt Yeah.
And I don't know that either-

Phil (46:32):
Guess we'll see some of them in, in- Yeah.
Surratt

Brandan (46:34):
spent more time on special teams- Special teams … last year.
Yeah.
So I, I would think that if they go-

Phil (46:39):
But O'Connell was great on special teams.

Brandan (46:41):
Yeah

Clinton (46:42):
Collins, he's good.

Phil (46:43):
He's

Clinton (46:43):
just

Phil (46:43):
a good linebacker He'd be trusted on the field
if that's the thing I'm

Clinton (46:46):
a,

Brandan (46:47):
I'm a fan Michael Knight in chat saying, "So here I'm gonna ask a question.
Do the starters even play at all?"
And it's, it's really strange becausewhen- No … we used to have four
preseason games to where you, youdefinitely wouldn't see them in the
first game, and then sometimes you'dsee them for the first drive and maybe
the second or third preseason game.

(47:09):
If we go based on how, Coach Macdonaldoperated last season, we did not see
Sam Darnold in the preseason at all.
It was only Drew Lock, JalenMilroe in that first preseason
game against the Raiders last year.
Mm-hmm.
And then, gosh, did we see, Ithink maybe in the second game we

(47:29):
saw Sam for at least just one drive.
So yeah, it's, it's-

Phil (47:34):
Mm-hmm
…Brandan: if we see him at all-
That was

Brandan (47:37):
right … yeah, yeah, okay.
So-

Phil (47:38):
Jason was out there for, like, two plays.

Brandan (47:40):
Right.

Clinton (47:41):
Yeah, only dude that I see that might start, and it's because
of injury to Emmanwori, is Igbinoghene.
Like- Yeah … maybe, maybe he'sout there playing 'cause it's, he's
in competition now- Yeah … andhe ends up starting the year.
But I, I still wouldn't put himin the star- starter category.
No.
That's 'cause of injury.

Phil (47:57):
As far as sophomores, I know this moves to the other side of the
ball, but we talked about the guards.
The only other sophomores I'm wonderingif we'll get to see them a little
bit, and they finished the season,you know, out hurt unfortunately.
What about Arroyo and Horton?
Do you think we'll get tosee them a little bit in

Clinton (48:12):
the- Hmm.
Good questions.
Yeah, or they're like- They'relike- … bubble wrap material too.
What do you think, Brad?
They're like

Phil (48:16):
snap getters but not necessarily starters

Clinton (48:20):
Yeah, they're important.
What do you think, Brandan?

Brandan (48:21):
Oh, I was researching another, topic- Oh,
okay … so why don't you take it?

Clinton (48:25):
Oh, okay.
it'd be nice, like, a- a-Horton almost more so than Arroyo,
and that's not Arroyo shade.
I'm coming around to Arroyo, by the way.
I, I wanna be very wrong on Arroyo.
it'd be nice becauseof Horton's injuries.
You know, just to get him backinto a flow state out there.
He's super, super talented, somaybe he gets, like, a series and

(48:48):
gets, you know, gets a pass or two.
That I could see happening, Phil,because you gotta go through a lot of
wide receivers in games naturally anyway.
and then, you know, when youlook at tight ends, so, you know,
we know Barnard's not gonna play.
Fine.

Phil (49:02):
No, that's

Clinton (49:02):
fine.
I don't know if Saubert gets in,because you still got Nick Vannett,
you got Kaler up, you got otherdudes down- down line in, in Arroyo.
Saubert

Phil (49:11):
doesn't need to play.
There's no benefit

Clinton (49:12):
to him playing.
I don't think he needs to play either.
He- he's, he's your starting, youknow, in a 12 or 13, he's your
blocking tight end starter in that way.
So it looks to me like El- Elijahmight get some run Saturday.
Again, as a second-year dude who didn'tget huge volume last year, and if you
really wanna kinda wet Fleury's whistlea little bit about how he's gonna use

(49:35):
him in different motion packages and-

Phil (49:37):
Mm-hmm

Clinton (49:37):
try to get mismatches on linebackers and,-

Phil (49:40):
Yeah
…Clinton: you know, a- and so- Give
Milroe something fun to throw to.
If he had-

Clinton (49:44):
Yeah
…Phil: those two guys on a couple drives, that would be nice.
So I think we might see both of them now that I'm looking
at it deeper, so I, I'd like to seea little bit of both those guys.
They're on- they're only second-year guys.

Brandan (49:56):
Yeah.
I, I'm interested in seeing Arroyo andhow he, has progressed from last
year and I th- and I think, yeah, hedefinitely needs some pre-season snaps.
So, maybe th- maybe that'llbe a, a good target for…
Well, let's see.
Will he be out there with…
One of the things we heard from CoachMacdonald is he, he kind of alluded to

(50:17):
doing something a little bit differentwith the pre-season, and I, I wanna say
it was with regard to a question aboutw- how much we're gonna see Milroe.
Milroe.
And so I wonder if we mightend up seeing him get s-
seeing him earlier than later.

Phil (50:34):
Yeah, that's a good question.
I've be- I was just thinking aboutthat before you brought that up again.
I was like, "Is, is Milroe gonna getto play with any of the number twos, or
does he have to wait till the second halfand play with all guys that are unlikely
to make the team, or just battling?"
'Cause he's, he is thethird string at this point.
Guys that are just battling totry to make the roster or even the

(50:55):
practice squad or try to get ontotheir teams, does he have to do that?
'Cause that's kind of abummer for us getting to see.
However, Drew needs to get used to runningthe offense 'cause it- it's one snap
away from him needing to go in thereand help us win games if something does
happen to Sam, because Mike Macdonaldcan't protect Sam, once we have
kickoff, against the Patriots.

Brandan (51:16):
No, but he's also experienced enough that-

Phil (51:20):
Yeah
…Brandan: I'm not really concerned about his number of pre-season snaps either.
It's not as fun for us to watch Drew, no doubt.
But I'm wondering, like, he doesneed to have some familiarity
with those guys, right?
Mm-hmm.

Brandan (51:32):
It's funny, Michael Knight in chat saying, Hard Knocks has
changed his perception of the pre-seasongame because now, now we get to see
the action of the practices- Yeah
and through Hard Knocksand so we- But that's all

Phil (51:45):
dramatized and like-

Brandan (51:46):
A little bit, yeah.
Yeah.
But it, it's kind of, it satiated ourappetite for football a little bit, right?
For sure.
Because we, we've gotten alittle bit of it on Tuesday
night, ahead of the game.
So yeah, that's funny how that changesyour, your outlook just a little bit.

Clinton (52:00):
But e- everything, my disposition.
I, I couldn't sleep, whatwas it, Tuesday night, right?
So Tuesday night, Hard Knocks comes on.
It was s- a- I thoughtthat episode was fantastic.
Yeah.
And then we went live and did the liveafter that, and that was a ton of fun.
I, and I'm on the East Coast, so, youknow, by the time we wrap- Middle of the

Phil (52:19):
night

Clinton (52:19):
it's like 11:30.
I don't think I went to beduntil about, like, 1:00.
It was like game day for me.
I was, like, buzzing.
I'm like, I didn't have latecoffee or nothing like that.
I just had a hard time going to sleep.
I was so yoked aboutthat freaking episode.
So definitely feel whatMichael Knight's saying.
And to your point, Brandan,that, you know, scratching the
itch, it did that and then some.

(52:39):
I had, like, a game day winbuzz after that was over.
Maybe it's just being a Seahawks fan.
You like, you just, you feel likeyou won, you know, in many ways.

Phil (52:48):
Here's something different about pre-season, 'cause I don't
wanna just dog on it constantly.
It's so easy to dog on, andpeople like the practice one with
another and your own teammates.
You just treat them different,and you kinda know what's coming.
Like, I coach soccer.
It's very, very hard for us to surpriseour own team on anything that we
practice because we see it all the time,and you have to learn those things.

(53:11):
There's something about a quarterbackstepping up to the line, and he's
not necessarily sure what thedefense is gonna do, and they don't
necessarily have his best interest.
They're trying to make their own team.
That is very good forlinemen in the trenches.
It's very good for a quarterback toprocess, and really all the players.
Dealing with somebody that you don't faceday in, day out that knows all your moves,

(53:34):
knows all the stuff you do, that's veryhelpful information for the players to
grow from and for the coaches to see howthey handle, you know, all of Clinton's
favorite players from the Cowboys.

Brandan (53:47):
Lisa in chat saying, "Anyone dogging on pre-season
amiss- is missing the point.
It's beautiful chaosand it frigging rules."

Phil (53:54):
Okay, thank you.

Clinton (53:55):
No, it is.
That's…
I love, I love it all.
I did wanna ask, are you guysready to fall in love with, with
a wide receiver this pre-season?
Are you ready for it?
One that, you know- I

Phil (54:05):
mean-

Clinton (54:05):
that Brandan might need a new jersey type of,- No.

Phil (54:07):
You know?
I like the guys we have.
I like the guys we're familiar with.
I don't want a manual to make the team.
I mean, I'm fine if RickyWhite's gonna be a combo guy.
I don't need to fall in love with anybody.
We have five awesome guys already

Clinton (54:18):
We

Brandan (54:18):
might have- I feel like I haven't fallen out of love with
Jake Bobo enough- Yeah, right.
Yeah … that, that I'mready to move on to somebody new.
Jake

Phil (54:25):
Bobo's season.

Brandan (54:26):
F-

Clinton (54:26):
f- fair enough.
I mean, I just putting the warningout there that we may all fall
in love with Foster, right?
Montorie Foster.
Different.
Just because he's, he's lighting it up.
And again, it's camp, and we knowthat camp is different than when the
lights are on, but he's l- he lookedreally good, and I think he's number
87, if someone wants to confirm that.
Just so folks, you know, 'causeyou're watching it live, it's

(54:47):
like, you know the announcers in…
Most often- Yeah … the announcersin pre-season don't know who this dude
is, so we gotta go by the numbers.

Brandan (54:55):
Look, if there's any reason for me to fall in love with either Montorie
Foster or Emmanuel Henderson, it's becausethey have actual wide receiver numbers.
Henderson wears84- … Foster wears 87.
You have real actual widereceiver numbers- That's
great … that, you can enjoy.

Phil (55:10):
It almost looks weird now.
Somebody wearing eight, I'm like,"What's that tight end doing

Brandan (55:14):
out there?"
Why is, why is a tight endrunning wide receiver routes?

Clinton (55:16):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Phil (55:16):
You got 10, 11, 22, 15.
I mean- I like,

Clinton (55:20):
I, I like those points.
Those are good points.
And so it'll be cool to watch that, like,back of the wide receiver room battle.
And- S- strictly becauseit's such a deep room.
Like, you know you're not sniffingthe field, but may- maybe you'll
get in some, some special teamsas a gunner or something like that.
So Ema- Emmanuel Hendersonabsolutely flies and then
he can play the gunner spot.

Phil (55:41):
Yeah.

Clinton (55:41):
It'll be in Ricky White year two now, so d- it'll just be another
interesting pool of dudes to watch.
And then you got like, again, thisteam, the wide receiver room, you
got Cody White sitting there as like,whether you call him wide receiver five
or six and you flip-flop with Bobo.
I like him.
Man, I'm telling you right now, I'vewatched enough football that Cody
White is a legit NFL wide receiver.

(56:03):
Yeah.
He is.
And on many teams, probably upwards of 15to 20, he's an easy wide receiver three,
and he's sitting at five or six for us.
So it's just gonna becool to watch those dudes.
but be, be prepared to at least geta little, little crush on one of these
wide receivers for I have a feeling.
What about a pass rusher?

Brandan (56:19):
Yeah.
Well, Michael Knight is goingwhere I wanted to go next anyway.
Every preseason there is a rising star.
Who will it be?
Mm-hmm.
We should have a contest.
Pick the guy who shines this August.
I, I don't know if I'm gonna pickthe guy just to, in a, in terms of
prediction, but I do have someone who Iwant to shine, and I want my preseason
crush to be, because this generally is- Oh

(56:40):
a skill position player, right?
It's not like you fall in love with a,an interior defender because he- Can be a
pass rusher … he's a great run stopper.
May- maybe a pass rusher.
But not obviously- We do see ita little bit with pass rushers.
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
You had depth pass rushers.
Yeah.
We've had that in the past, and I think, Ivy was one of those guys- Yeah
in past seasons too that we've,we've seen have a n- a- He looked
really good … a nice preseason.
Mm-hmm.

(57:01):
But for me, it would be Velus Jones,because we do have a little bit of
depth at the running back that, Icould be interested in and intrigued by.
And Velus Jones, I think he hasthe ability to maybe be a- Yeah
depth piece on special teams, too.
So if he can show me something at runningback, I, he's who I want my crush to be.

(57:23):
That, to- He's gonna play a lot … toreally, if he's pushing the other
running backs like Holani andPrice, that, that- And Wilson.

Clinton (57:31):
Don't

Brandan (57:31):
forget Wilson … and, and Emmanuel Wilson, yes.
If, if Velus Jones- Wilson
is my preseason crush, I think that wouldbe, it would be a good sign for the team.
Mm-hmm.

Phil (57:38):
I do want to see Wilson play a little bit.
I'd like to see himout there a little bit.

Clinton (57:42):
you know, there's a whole season of Packers, games.
W- he's, he's good Yeah,

Phil (57:48):
I know … he's,

Clinton (57:48):
he's Charbonnet, man.
Like, I will keep, the moment we gothim until now, I was like, "This guy
is complete Charbonnet insurance."
And that is to say he's a perfectlyrespectable NFL running back who hits
holes hard, sees, has good vision.
He's just a good football player, man.
I would not be shocked if we getto the end of the year and it's
simply like he wa- he's been morevaluable than his whatever $1.8

(58:12):
million contract, says.
But, but yeah, I'm with you.
I, I think we'll see alittle bit of Wilson.
I would imagine we would.
But Phil, do you have someoneyou're hoping to crush on,
from a player perspective?

Phil (58:24):
I think I, the only one I can think of besides Lampy
is Mason Richman, I guess.
I, I wanna see MasonRichman- Come on, it can't

Brandan (58:31):
be a lineman.

Clinton (58:32):
Why not?

Brandan (58:33):
Nobody, nobody

Clinton (58:34):
falls in love with linemen.
You, you don't tell m- You love

Phil (58:35):
Zabel

Clinton (58:36):
right?
You don't,

Phil (58:36):
you don't- Zabel was the star of last preseason.
Yeah, you

Clinton (58:39):
don't tell- You were crying about him … Mr.
Phil how to crush here, Brandan.
You're not a, you know, Judge Judy

Brandan (58:43):
next to- Saying it's not a valid crush of crushing
on a, a, a lineman anywhere.

Phil (58:47):
For me, it's usually a pass rusher, and we have five veteran dudes.
Like, they, we're not gonnaget to see anything cool.
Well- I mean, maybe Uso's gonnago out there or, and I mean,

Clinton (58:56):
Yeah, Uso could be interesting.
That depend, that knows.
But I think the dude, we justmentioned pass rusher, but Jalen
Gaines is at least interesting.
Yeah, it could be Jalen Gaines.

Phil (59:04):
Okay.
'Clinton: Cause- Maybe Jalen Gaines … just watching some speed off the edge.
And the reason, the reason that thatparticular, well, dude plus his
position is interesting is because wehave defensive ends that are older.
You know, this very well couldbe DeMarcus Lawrence's last year.
So it's actually a position whereif we see a guy really shine in this

(59:25):
August, he might be really importantcome like next, next October.
So I'll go with Gaines.
If we see a couple of sacks fromGaines around the, around the corner,
maybe a little fumble sack,type thing, that'll get me fired up.
Yeah, it's gonna be tough.
This team's, we're really good, so,it's gonna be hard to really get fired.
I'm talking about somebody, I'm excited'cause they're gonna make a difference

(59:46):
this year, and whoever that fourthinterior lineman, he's gonna play.
I would be stoked if Richmanjust locks people down.
I honestly would, because that is suchan important aspect to our team humming
for when somebody does miss a few games.

Brandan (01:00:02):
All right.
So, yeah, for me, it's Jones.
for Phil, it's Richman, and, you're taking the, the- I got
Georgia … freshman Jalin Gaines.
So- Yeah, I like the Gaines pick.
and, we have, let's see- Lampy.

Phil (01:00:17):
Lampy's the backup.

Brandan (01:00:18):
We, we…
Yeah, I, I am, I aminterested in seeing Lampy.
Yokai Hawk in chat saying, who dowe think we will see returning kicks?

Clinton (01:00:24):
Hmm.

Brandan (01:00:25):
Good question.
I think maybe a littlebit of Horton to start.

Phil (01:00:28):
Emanuel?

Clinton (01:00:29):
You think so, huh?
Think they're gonna put him inposition to take a hit like that?

Brandan (01:00:33):
I think maybe to start.

Clinton (01:00:34):
Okay.

Brandan (01:00:35):
But,- Well, they did the…
Yeah, they did second … butI think depth guys, I, I
think it will be Velus Jones.
Yeah.

Phil (01:00:39):
Not Henderson?

Brandan (01:00:41):
I don't know about Henderson.

Clinton (01:00:42):
Well, he did it in, at, was Kansas, right?
So he did it at school- Yeah … andhe was at, at university, as
they say, and he had a coupleof, take backs to the house.
So-

Phil (01:00:51):
Bryce Cable do is gonna be returning kicks.
I mean, I don't know why-

Clinton (01:00:54):
I love it.
I love it.
no, that, I would, I was gonna, I wasgonna vote for Henderson to get a, get at
least one attempt or two, so we'll see.

Brandan (01:01:02):
All right.
Well-

Phil (01:01:03):
It better not be Rasheed, and it won't be.
No.

Clinton (01:01:05):
It might not be that many attempts because, even with
our twos and threes, it's still theSeahawks defense, which is good.

Brandan (01:01:12):
That's right.
All right.
getintheflock.com
if you wanna help support the show.
Really wanna thank everybody who joinedus live here, and, Godzilla Hawk
for being our live executive producer.
So, yeah, if you wannago to getintheflock.com,
hey, we've still got some preseason…
no- not preseason tickets.
I've, I've donated all the preseasontickets, but we have regular season

(01:01:34):
tickets, available for our group game.
We're gonna be going out and,there's gonna be a group of us watching
Seahawks take on the Patriots week one.
Sweet.
So if you're looking for tickets and,wanna get in on that, getintheflock.com.
And we've got a Discord.
You can join there.
We're talking Seahawks all the time.
It's, it's really fun stuff.

Clinton (01:01:55):
It is.
It's just…
And it's just gettingmore and more warmed up.
This has been a beautiful,slow snowball of massing good
energy, and I'm, I'm ready, dudes.
I am so ready to lock in Saturday.
It, for me, it's my nighttimehere out in Connecticut.
Probably pop a beer, get mynotebook ready, Brandan and
Phil, because then we're gonna…

(01:02:16):
You know, I plan on getting a threeand three out ready for next week and
just rolling right into, you know,while it's the players' preseason,
I think I'm season ready, boys.
I think I'm ready.

Brandan (01:02:26):
All right.
Well, if you're gonna do three andthree out, hopefully no Cowboys
make your list- … of ins and outs.

Clinton (01:02:31):
How about if it's, like, Cowboys getting burnt?
Like Caleb, Caleb Downs not lookingthat great because- That is acceptable
…Phil: of- Mason Richman just-
There we go … smacking

Phil (01:02:39):
their defensive line.

Clinton (01:02:40):
There we go.

Phil (01:02:42):
And I think with that-

Clinton (01:02:43):
There's only one thing left to say.

Phil (01:02:45):
Go Hawks.
Go Hawks.
Beat the Boys.

Clinton (01:02:48):
Go Hawks.

Phil (01:02:49):
Go Hawks.