August 22, 2024 • 73 mins
On this episode of The Founder's Sandbox, our host Brenda McCabe speaks with Khalid Machchate; accomplished 3 x exit startup founder, operator of a startup studio, board of director positions and now in his “NEXT ACT,“ Khalid is a member of Morocco’s Royal Advisory Committee by nomination from His Majesty King Mohammed 6th, for the development of the Kingdom.
According to Brenda, "Khalid checks many boxes as a guest to the Founders Sandbox. The topic we settled upon is Purpose, when we met for the first time his remark to me about after he found the podcast and later on the website of Next Act Advisors, my consulting business, “It strikes me that not many people are thinking about their Next Act in life.“
They walk through Khalid’s origin story: growing up in a fishing village in Morrocco in a humble family; developing and selling his first software at the age of 11 years, and most recently; Khalid joined as the youngest member of Morocco’s Royal Advisory Committee for the Special Commission on the Development Model by nomination from His Majesty King Mohammed 6th, leading strategically the national development agenda through inclusive and sustainable public policies, technology and innovation. In conversations they share on how they intentionally and proactively work to provide a roadmap through digital transformation and human capital skill-up with clients.
You can find out more about Khalid at:
Linked IN
https://www.linkedin.com/in/khalidmachchate/
And view more of his content here :
https://www.forbesafrica.com/under-30/2019/07/01/30under30-technology-category-2019/
https://www.bbc.com/afrique/region-41804783
Khalid Machchate: A Day in Our Digital Future | TED Talk
A Revival of Fintech Funding in 2024 is Just a Pipe Dream... Or is it? | The Fintech Times
Top 3 Digital Ways to Become the Best Leader Your Organization Deserves - The Good Men Project
https://www.menabytes.com/startup-golden-rules/
Read an article by brenda on this topic at:
https://nextactadvisors.com/next-act-as-a-prelude-to-a-last-act/
You can read the article in full by subscribing to Next Act Advisors at https://nextactadvisors.com/product/subscriptions/ and be sure to use the special discount code "sandbox25" for friends of The Founder's Sandbox for 25% off your subscription.
transcript:
00:04
Hi, I'm pleased to announce something very special to me, a new subscription-based service through Next Act Advisors that allows members exclusive access to personal industry insights and bespoke corporate governance knowledge.
00:33
This comes in the form of blogs, personal book recommendations, and early access to the Founder's Sandbox podcast episodes before
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(00:17):
Hi, I'm pleased to announce something very specialto me, a new subscription-based service through
Next Act Advisors that allows members exclusiveaccess to personal industry insights and bespoke
corporate governance knowledge. This comes inthe form of blogs, personal book recommendations,
(00:38):
and early access to the Founder's Sandbox podcastepisodes before they released to the public.
If you want more white glove information onbuilding your startup with information like
what was in today's episode, sign up with thelink in the show notes to enjoy being a special
member of Next Act Advisors. As a thank youto Founder's Sandbox listeners. you can use
(01:04):
code sandbox25 at checkout to enjoy 25% offyour membership costs. Thank you.
Welcome back to the Founder's Sandbox. The Founder'sSandbox podcast is now in its second season.
(01:24):
I am Brenda McCabe, the host. This monthly podcastreaches entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs and
business owners who learn about building resilient,purpose-driven and sustainable businesses with
great corporate governance. My mission is reallysimple. I bring guests to the podcast who themselves
(01:46):
are founders, business owners, corporate directors,investors, and professional service providers,
who like me want to use the power of the privateenterprise, be it small, medium or large, to
create change for a better world. Through storytellingwith each of my guests, including topics around
(02:07):
resilience, purpose-driven organizations, andsustainable growth, My goal is to provide a
fun sandbox environment where we can equip onestartup founder at a time to build a better
world through great corporate governance. Today,I'm absolutely delighted to have as my guest,
Khalid Machateh. He's joining the podcast todayas an accomplished three-time exit startup
(02:31):
founder, operator of a startup studio, boardof director positions, and now in his next
act. He is a member of Morocco's Royal AdvisoryCommittee by nomination from His Majesty King
Mohammed VI for the development of the kingdom.So thank you Khalid for joining me in the Founder's
(02:53):
Sandbox today. Thank you for having me, Brenda.Great. Well, you check mini boxes as a guest
to the Founder's Sandbox. And I talked aboutbusiness owners, corporate board directors,
professional service. But this topic we settled.upon his purpose. You know, we met for the
first time and you'd actually spent some timeon some podcasts as well as Next Act Advisors
(03:19):
consulting website. And you remarked to me,you know, I don't think there are a lot of
people that are thinking about their next act,right? And so we're gonna talk about throughout
the podcast today purpose, Kelly's purpose anddesigning for his next act. Maybe for my listeners,
(03:39):
we'll get a glimpse of some ideas of how one'sjourney, professional and personal, really
informs what your next act might be. So throughKhalid's origin story, he grew up in a small
fishing village in Morocco in a humble family.He developed and sold his first software at
(04:04):
the age of 11. And most recently, after many,many years, he joined as the youngest member
of Morocco's Royal Advisory Committee for theSpecial Commission on the Development Model
by nomination from His Majesty King MohammedVI, leading strategically the national development
agenda through inclusive and sustainable publicpolicies, technology, and innovation. We're
(04:30):
going to hear a little bit more about a statevisit that Khalid just had. in the United States
of America. No, in our conversations Khalid,we shared how we both in our businesses, we
intentionally and proactively work to providea roadmap through digital transformation and
human capital skill up with our clients. Thereis more to discover with you today. You know,
(04:56):
my journey of moving back to the United Statesafter over 25 years in Europe really became
my why, became purpose-driven, scalable, andvery resilient. And I took that into my business.
What would be your tagline, Khalid, if you wereto describe your journey?
(05:21):
My tagline would be probably the out of thebox since we're talking about, you know, so
we're in the Fambur sandbox. So it would probablybe the most out of the box Moroccan.
(05:49):
has been, basically that is what I hear fromeverybody, from my family to people that I
studied with back when I was in school, to peoplethat know me now. It's the, you don't fit into
any box that our kind of corporate world orbusiness world has. And so, yeah, that would
(06:16):
be my tagline. I love it. out of the box. Andagain, on your journey, it was fascinating
just to research not only your LinkedIn page,the many accolades that you've received over
the years. But more importantly, you have yourown website, Khalid Machate. And there I we
(06:37):
hadn't touched upon it, but you are an activepublic speaker. And you have speak around different
themes, technology, business and entrepreneurship,policy and governance, and you also share your
own story on the stage. So I'm gonna cut tothe chase. I am most interested for my listeners
(06:59):
at the Founder's Sandbox on your story. Of course.So my story can resonate with anybody that
grew up in a very small town. So I grew up ina... in a small fishing village in the south
(07:19):
of Morocco. The reason why that is that my fatherwas a public school teacher. And within our
schooling system, once you get a job as a publicschool teacher for the government, you get
assigned to where you're gonna start your career.And so you don't get a say into where you're
(07:41):
going. And so while we were living in McNaas,which is the city I was born in, after a year
of me being born, my father had his assignmentand we got assigned about 2000 kilometers south.
So
(08:04):
in the village, everything is late. The eventof internet is late. News are late, opportunities
are scarce, you don't get access to much. Thereare no associations for education or for children's
(08:25):
activities. And so basically we always had tomake up things ourselves. How to get entertained,
how to find access to music, et cetera. Andso one thing that I kind of stumbled upon,
(08:45):
because my father was interested in, was programming.So software programming. So my dad, again,
public school teacher salary for to give youan idea is around $250 a month for, you know,
when you're starting out your career. And sohe was trying to round up his end of months.
(09:10):
And so he self-learned how to fix computers.And a few years into fixing computers, he started
thinking, how can I add more to that service?And then started to learn how to program as
he kind of fixed himself a makeshift computerat home from the pieces that he would get from
(09:32):
each of the fixing jobs. And so, and all ofthis, I mean, he had his job, he had his salary.
So the self-starting and the initiative takingkind of came from there for me. It was definitely,
you know, a C to learn in my case. My dad nevertold me to do anything, never taught me to
(10:00):
code. He was very clear on, you know, I do whatI want with my time and I go and I enjoy myself
how I want it. But the books would be left aroundthe house, the coding books, and I got just
curious and I started taking those books andusing the software on my dad's computer and
(10:24):
learning how to code. And that was how I gotto creating my first kind of accomplished software.
Started around the age of nine and finishedit at around 11, where I started sharing it
with school buddies and then my teacher. Andat first it was just a, you know, here you
(10:52):
can burn the CD. if you want to learn, it wasa biology course, but made in an interactive
gamified way. Because I got bored at biologyclasses. And so what happened was, I started
giving it around, and a teacher of mine actually,not my father, told me, why aren't you like
(11:15):
making any money out of this? And I was like,well, I just thought I could help out. And
I was like, yes, but that is a lot of value.You spend a lot of time working on that. And
so, yeah. And so that's how I started sellingthe software. And then I ended up selling it
to school to distribute to their students. Andthat's how my first- At 11 years of age. Our
(11:41):
story. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. And also, you know,you're a- a product of the public school system,
humble origins, and in your public speaking,you are probably very influential in Moroccan
(12:02):
youth today and other Middle Eastern environments,I would imagine. So- I hope though. That's
your goal. So thank you. You then went on to-
create two other businesses, can you speak tothem? And were they for profit or nonprofit?
(12:28):
So to continue on the story, then around theend of middle school, that's where my dad was
able to get reassigned to my birth city, whichwas McNeist. And so I started high school there.
Now, going from where I was, again, where internethad only been introduced at that point, maybe
(12:54):
a couple of years, three, four years beforethat. And so I started finding out that, oh,
in the big city, there are a lot more opportunities.So there are associations for students that
you can find internships and, you know, differentopportunities to learn more or to do kind of
(13:17):
side jobs or to find also just potential clientsbecause I was always still coding and still
making little websites, little management software,etc. And so it just kind of made me aware that
the world was a lot bigger than where I started.And at the same time hanging out with my family
(13:46):
and a cousin of mine introduced me to the cultureof manga, which is the Japanese cartoons. Yeah,
I was I think 14 at the time. And yeah, I lovedit. And I started watching quite a lot of it
while being fascinated by the culture. And soAt some point I started feeling that I was
(14:12):
getting fluid and understanding what was happeningon screen without having to read the subtitles.
And I was like, oh, that would be interesting.You know, I already understand. Maybe let's
try to learn also the grammatical aspects ofthe language so that I can, you know, say that
I speak another language, which is Japanese.
(14:36):
And so yeah, I looked online, I found quitea few websites and quite a few forums where
you could learn how to write, you could learnthe grammar, etc. of Japanese language. And
by the time I was in the end of high school,so the year of graduation from high school,
(14:58):
I was fairly fluent and I could write well.And so what I did was I got myself into an
NGO, a nonprofit that was catering towards universitystudents to have access to internships. And
(15:19):
those, you know, you have local internships,but also international internships. This was
an international NGO. And so I went to the NGO.I... And please, guys, do not hold me up to
this. I was 16 at the time. I lied my way throughto tell them that I was a student at university
(15:43):
while I was still in high school, just becauseI thought that it wasn't fair that I had the
knowledge and I had the possibility of accessingthis experience. But just because of my age,
I wasn't able to. to access it. And so that'swhat I did. I learned about a particular university
(16:03):
and I started saying that I was from that university.Happily enough, they did not check any, you
know, credentials and then didn't ask for myID. I didn't have an ID at the time. Again,
I was 16.
And so, yeah, I had my first interview in thespace of like a few weeks after I was enrolled
(16:27):
into the internship support program. I met withthe CEO of the small company in shipping in
Japan that were looking to hire an intern forto help them with their IT management system.
And five minutes from the beginning of the interview,the guy was trying to speak in English, and
(16:49):
it was very hard for him. And so I said, youknow what, we can switch to Japanese. Two hours
later, the obviously I was hired. But not onlythat, the guy was saying, you know what, I
cannot just hold you for myself. So I'm goingto share your resume with all of my CEO friends.
So basically, I became the this monkey savantthat's coming from the Orient, you know, speaking
(17:17):
the language and having looking nothing likewhat they're used to. He shared my resume with
I believe 20 of his friends and I ended up havingI think five projects at the same time
in the space of six months to do for all thesefolks. in Japan. So that was my first international
(17:43):
contract. But that's also that was the triggerfor me to start hiring other people because
well, I was overwhelmed by the amount of thingsthat I had to do. And so I just tried to look
for my friends that were you know, coders andhackers of time and people that could that
could help me out and started paying them, youknow, from out of pocket. And then thought,
(18:08):
oh, you know what? This is not very comfortable.Maybe I can, you know, I need a structure to
be able to do more, better invoicing or getpaid better. And so that's how I created my
first company, which ended up becoming my familyoffice now, which is KNW technology group.
And so just for reference, KNW technology group,now it's a, now it's a group. It's. in five
(18:37):
countries. I mean, we have offices in five countries,we have clients in almost 80 countries, we're
present in Africa, Europe, Middle East, andAPAC, Asia, and the US and covering the Americas.
And so, you know, we have quite a large footprint.But it started this way. It started by me.
(19:04):
At the age of 16, although you fibbed your waythrough it, right? And learning a language.
Amazing. Wow. So you've clearly owned businesses,scaled them not only nationally, but internationally,
and at a very, very tender age. Fast forward.OK, we won't talk about your age here. People
(19:30):
can read them in the show notes. There's somearticles for you to feature. So you can do
the math and discover Khalid's age. You thenstruck out pretty recently and decided to obtain
credentials as ESG leader with a certificationthat you pursued both with HSBC and KPMG. Can
(19:59):
you? What made you pivot to really going deepinto ESG, which today it's like, at least in
the United States, very front and center. Youwere a pioneer. So what made you pursue those
(20:20):
credentials, Khalid? Thank you.
In my case, and this was part of the initialconversation, which was preparing my next act.
So around, I believe 2018, 2019, particularly2019, I started feeling that I was kind of
(20:44):
ready to move on from managing the group. Andso throughout... kind of the 15 or something
years that I was at the head of the group anddeveloping it, you know, developing various
startups under the startup studio within thegroup. And all of that was exciting and, you
(21:07):
know, we were starting projects, but still theunderlying structure that is that you're running
a large company that answers to clients that,you know, does kind of major projects. They
all kind of start looking the same after a while.We've worked with over 20 industries. So we've
(21:28):
done the rounds. And so now it became more repetitiveand there's nothing new under the sun. They
started feeling that disconnect. And I reallywanted to, basically I had a succession plan
in place and I was always thinking that I neededto move on from this. This is now is a management
(21:56):
play and I'm a creative person, not the bestmanager or I'm not just not as excited about
managing an existing structure as I was startingthings and building new things and tinkering
with things. And so even throughout the 15 years,I've had the great luck of having great COO.
(22:22):
And so every now and then I would run away frommy duties as a group manager. And I would go
do something else. So I was the innovation directorfor the Abu Dhabi government for a while. I
was the, you know, an expert with the G20 inArgentina. I was. part of the World Economic
(22:46):
Forum panel of experts in Davos. I did quitea few things here and there that mainly had
to do with policy at the highest level, strategyand innovation and technology. And so that's
(23:07):
kind of what put me on the track of thinkingat the time. in the early 2010s is
the governance and the sustainability aspectis not as commonly talked about compared to
(23:29):
profits and margins, top lines.
And that kind of made me think, oh, so people,when they think about, you know, companies
and managing them, they're not thinking as muchabout the environments within which the companies
(23:51):
are evolving, as much as they think about, youknow, the ins and the outs of the company itself.
So there. And that made me, you know, realizethat, oh, I do want to create impact here and
how can I create impact here is by trying tointegrate technology in a way that improves
(24:18):
the relationship of a company to their environmentand their impact on their environment. And
so
in my next act planning was, okay, I'll transitionout of managing the group and I will seek to
(24:40):
understand better how to incorporate ESG principlesinto the board governance. And so the program,
which was a full year program, was a big kindof micro masters that was very heavily focused
(25:06):
on use cases of actual businesses and that'skind of the specialty of KPMG and more on the
financial integration from HSBC to understandsand become a well-qualified board director
(25:33):
for publicly traded companies, foundations,family offices, but with a large emphasis on
the ESG and on kind of changing the mindsetsin boards. So our role as graduates of this
program is not to be a regular board seat, butto be the kind of change and impact board seat
(25:59):
and to kind of negotiate our way into changingthe strategy of the company or the foundation
or the family office that we are in the boardof towards more impactful environment. Excellent.
So it started in the 2010s, you said, right?When you kind of cut out left the business
(26:24):
in charge of your COO, had the opportunity toinfluence policy, but technology related in
the MENA region, and then got formal credentialing2018, 2019. Still you were head of the wave,
right? So you do think out of the box, right?So today you do sit on a few corporate boards.
(26:52):
for profit and not for profit. What I wantedyou to share is some of the work you've done
with charitable foundations, your family foundationis one of them, but also for the for profit.
So can you speak to a few of the organizationswhere you have been sitting or you've turned
(27:14):
out but you've been sitting as a board member,please? role as board member was always, you
know, my way of being involved within a particularorganization where I can provide the maximum
(27:36):
value for the minimum amount of time. So that'skind of how I approached my next act, which
is I do want to have more of my time for myself.But at the same time, I still want to have
impact on a larger scale. And so that's howI both selected the organizations, whether
(28:03):
for or nonprofit, that I joined, obviously,other than the fact that I, you know, my personal
interests. But it was also my way of givingas much impact and of my value and expertise
as possible while respecting my own time andmy own kind of personal engagements. So I'll
(28:33):
talk a little bit about the first the nonprofitsas I wanted to be able to touch upon you know
all the the mission related or my purpose relatedfocus, which was always how do I improve the
(28:55):
basic life services for citizens of my countryand of Africa. This has been kind of a pulling.
a theme and mission for me for as long as Icould remember. And so one of the activities
(29:21):
that I've done is supporting Africa-based entrepreneursto have access to international markets and
to have access to international funding. Andso I was on the board of Demo Africa, which
was an initiative that selected some of thebest African startups. So what we mean by African
(29:47):
startups is startups that are made by Africanentrepreneurs and founders and that are targeted
towards a need within their market. So it'snot a global company or FinTech right away.
No, it's actually a company born out of a needthat addresses an African market. And so taking
(30:13):
those, giving them all the tools, teaching themhow to be presentable, how to be adapted towards
the international market, all the while keepingtheir focus and their mission on improving
the livelihoods of African, you know, of theircountry. Yeah, and so
(30:45):
I've done that for I believe three years. Youknow, in that in that time period, the organization
has helped founders raise, I believe over 150million US dollars. Yeah, my numbers are still
I still correct. A lot of them have joined amajor uh, renowned kind of accelerators like
(31:09):
Y Combinator and plug and play. Um, and a lotof them have gone to, uh, you know, establish
in, in multiple countries in the world, butalways having kind of this underlying mission
of serving the continent. Um, so that's one,uh, second would be, uh, the tech green foundation
of which I'm still on the, on the board. Thisis a MENA-based foundation that is there to
(31:37):
promote and celebrate impactful initiativesand people within the MENA region and supporting
them into growing and having more impact acrossthe region coming out of their particular country.
(32:00):
These are privately held, so there are a fewNDAs involved. I'll share just a little bit
of the underlying themes. So I'm on a familyoffice board that has multiple holding kind
of companies underneath the structure. And thereason why I joined is that because they wanted
(32:27):
to have a better way of quantifying their impacton the community and on also in bettering the
way they track their different investments acrossthe board. And so my role as an independent
board member was to come in, both help themwith understanding what the financial structures
(32:53):
and governance models are that would best suittheir multi-facility. industry focus, but also
how to integrate sustainable monitoring andevaluation practices within their strategic
oversight and how to structure their long-termstrategies with this in mind, with the sustainability
(33:19):
aspect in mind. Another one is a scale-up, whichis a larger startup. for the lack of a better
explanation. So a scale up, they've fundraised,I believe, four rounds till today. They're
growing within emerging markets, which is oneof the reasons why they've reached out. And
(33:45):
so their expansion within emerging markets hasfound a few blockages with regards to cultural
contextualization and understanding the mechanicsof emerging markets, which is one of the things
that I've worked within. Again, the 80 countriesthat I'm operating, a lot of them are, actually
(34:11):
most of them are within the emerging marketcategory. And so, yeah. My work was to support
them, understand how to contextualize for emergingmarkets, understand that the regulatory aspects
of each of these markets, and that they neededto account for that both from a risk management
(34:33):
standpoint, but also from an operational dilutionof culture and dilution of processes and principles.
And so... This might sound a little bit moretechnical, but obviously to our entrepreneurs
and board director listeners, it might be kindof what they do on a regular basis. But I just
(34:58):
wanted to give a little bit of insight on that.That is quite extensive. Thank you for that.
And there is at least two common themes, eitherin both the nonprofit for profit. It's all
around contextualizing for emerging markets,the regulatory regimes around technology, right?
(35:25):
And the environmental and impact and society,so ESG. So how it affects the livelihood of
those people, stakeholders, be they employees,suppliers, in the markets of these that these
companies for profit serve. So there is a common,common theme there Khalid. You know, you've
(35:53):
received many accolades. I'm going to name themoff here, and they will be in the show notes.
And I'll get to the question in a minute here.You've received the Forbes 30 under 30 in 2019.
You've received the United Nations 100 mostinfluential people of African descent. And
(36:18):
that was this year. The young Arab pioneer and2023 Africa lion and entrepreneur of the year
2017. And I don't know whether I left any out.But are is there one that you felt was more
rewarding than another in hindsight now?
(36:44):
Well, actually within the list, I mentionedmainly the ones that were a bit transformative
for me in a way. I believe the tally now isabout 30 international awards. And so the ones
(37:07):
I mentioned were mainly ones that came at aturning point in each case. So 2017 was kind
of the one of the largest international expansionyears for us. Okay. It was one where one of
(37:28):
our startups was, you know, very, very well.uh prized and poised within the uh the international
scene um and you know we had accolades fromeurope from the u.s um uh but the fact that
we've won the you know the africa lion and entrepreneurof the year for me was um oh so um you know
(37:56):
within my continent i am you know somebody seeswhat i'm doing and I'm doing something right.
Whenever you're in an international forum, youfeel like sometimes you're the token piece
of representation. That's either due to DI orwhatever the case may be, right? And so I've
(38:27):
come to appreciate the fact that I would bethe one opening the door perhaps for others.
And so being the first on the G20 stage or ata World Economic Forum stage became a way for
me to say, oh, so there, you know now that there'sthe possibility that you also as a Moroccan,
(38:48):
as an African, um, become part of this, um,uh, you know, become also, um, uh, Forbes 30
under 30 or, um, uh, speak at a World EconomicForum. But back then in 2017, again, I was
like this, you know, company founder with allmy focus being on how do I break my imposter
(39:13):
syndrome? You know, as a 20 something year old,how do I get over the fact that I feel that
everything is undeserved, whatever we receive.And so that was that that's why. that is on
the list that I shared with you because forme that was like, oh, so the, you know, the
(39:36):
idea of you can't be a prophet in your own community.Well, we've broken through that. The United
Nations one is just because that honors me asa person. Instead of, you know, some of my
(39:57):
companies or whatever the case may be, but that'snot you actually made impact beyond the organizations
that you've worked on that you've developedthat you've made. And so it felt like a, you
know, lifetime achievement award type thing,you know, it just happened on the year that
I finally put the mantle of the manager of thegroup down. And so it felt like a consecration
(40:27):
and a validation of all the 15 years that I'veworked towards and all the things that I've
done. So it was like, for me as a person thatI've done good. And the Forbes one was in 2019,
which came at the time where I was thinking,oh, I want to leave soon. And at the time,
(40:55):
before that, we didn't have any fancy, you know,kind of world-renowned prizes. We had regionals,
we had in Europe, we had in the US, but noneof these kind of everybody knows it award.
And at the same time, also, I was approaching30. And you know, the, the imposter syndrome
(41:20):
part started kicking in again, saying, Oh, you,everybody that's anybody has had a 30 under
30 listing, you know? So for, for founders,uh, that's kind of the, the Holy grail that
you, that once you get before 30, you're, youknow, you're stamped in stone. And so, yeah.
(41:42):
So it was, uh, it was really, uh, a fun thingto think, oh, I've gotten it actually a little
bit earlier than 30. But I got it and now Ican relax and get over, you know, the fact
that I get to the three zero, I got my Lister.
(42:04):
A lot of these are actually imposter syndromerelated but
and really putting yourself out there to bean example for aspiring entrepreneurs to see
(42:25):
that you can think out of the box and becomerelevant in the business world, while also
following some purpose, which is around sustainability,which is around human capital development,
and providing opportunities for the livelihoodof others. So. there is that commonality. One,
(42:48):
you know, when I was reflecting, reading yourmaterials in Seneca, the Roman philosopher
said, you know, luck is what happens when preparationmeets opportunity. So for your last, it's not
your last, it's your next and current involvement,you have been named the youngest member. of
(43:15):
the commission for the what is it called here?Yes, the Royal advisory committee, Royal Advisory
Committee by nomination from His Majesty KingMohammed for the development of the kingdom.
You recently did a State Department tour inseveral states here in the United States. And
(43:39):
while not, you know, revealing state secrets.know, what was what is that like? How does
that fit into your next act, Khalid? Um, ofcourse. So let's, you know, again, one of the
(44:00):
one of the things that I've done, and that,you know, And that I appreciate doing. And
I've done again throughout my professional career,getting out of managing the company was public
policy regarding like around technology andhow can different countries and states collaborate
(44:29):
with each other for the of their people's societalsituation or socioeconomic positioning. And
so since putting down the mantle as a manager,two things came to mind. One is that I wanted
(44:54):
to continue sharing my expertise. And that'swhere speaking, sitting on boards comes in.
So I don't want to let all of the experienceand all the richness of the things that I've
(45:15):
learned, that I've practiced go to waste. Andso that's one. And two, I want to be an eternal
learner. Like I have been throughout.
my work as an entrepreneur. I want to alwayslearn and always improve myself. And so the
(45:39):
program with KPMG and HSBC was the first oneon this journey, but I've also set up a few
learning journeys, let's call them. And this-to the US was one of them. And so the learning
(46:00):
is by meeting all sorts of actors within theUnited States, whether it's public or private,
around an open, secure digital economy. So talkingabout the subjects like cybersecurity, regulation
(46:20):
for AI, development of digital economy, understandingemergency management and all the things surrounding
how to regulate also blockchain and cryptocurrenciesand all of these things. So in three weeks,
(46:42):
we've met, I believe, above 50 organizationsfrom state actors to US attorneys offices to
companies like Discord or Plug and Play to universitieslike Carnegie Mellon and their centers for
(47:04):
research and development to organizations likeNIST. And so we've had quite a large panel
of organizations that we've collaborated withand kind of had these exchanges. of experience
and knowledge, both from the US standpoint,understanding how things function within the
(47:29):
US and what those organizations are workingon, but also from our side to give them a little
bit of what the rest of the world, how we viewregulation versus the US's view, how we view
the research and development paradigms. etc.So this was kind of it for me. It was a learning
(47:56):
journey but also a formal exchange with theseorganizations as you know a way for both of
us to develop a better understanding of thestate of the world of best practices from both
sides and it was definitely a great Thank you.You know, we were talking about your, the State
(48:26):
Department visit, and I shared with you thelargest seed fund in the United States of America
is the SPR, right? And it's different branches,you know, National Institutes of Health, the
National Science Foundation, etc. And I askedif they're, you weren't too familiar with that,
(48:47):
right? Small business. Innovation Research,SBIR, and early, early proof of concept, phase
one and phase two with $250,000, typically non-dilutive.That's kind of how the US does it. And the
equivalent in Morocco, what were you sharingwith me? Because I thought it was fascinating.
(49:08):
Yes. Can you share? Sounds good. So akin tothe SBIR, which you mentioned during our last
conversation, in Morocco we have an organizationcalled, previously called the CCG, but now
it's called Temwilcom, which is kind of a stateinvestment vehicle. It invests in a lot of
(49:38):
traditional environments, as the state investmentvehicle. It has also an SME and startup support
vertical. It started, I believe about sevenyears ago throughout a co-funding from World
(49:59):
Bank. I believe it was a 50, $50 million co-investment,so $100 million in total. And it is structured
for Moroccan entrepreneurs as follows. You haveup to... It started as up to $20,000, now it's
(50:23):
$40,000 of grants. So, full grant. Then thereis an addition of, it was $70,000, now I believe
it's $100,000, $120,000. And it's cumulative,so like if you start the first one and you
(50:45):
are at the end of the funding, you can requestthe second one. The second one is what we call
an honor debt, which is basically non-dilutive,non-collateralized funding. So basically, if
your company makes it, great. Then you have,they call it a couple of grace periods, so
(51:13):
I believe three or four years where you don'thave to pay back. and then you start paying
back in small installments. If your companymakes it, if your company doesn't make it and
closes, that's fine. And there's no pursuitof recuperation of fund from your person. And
(51:34):
so, above this, so between the two, I believewe're at $160,000 between the grants, at least
in the current edition, which starts this year.And afterwards, you get, I believe, up to $350,000
or $400,000, and that's dilutive capital. Butwith no, like, where the collateral or the
(52:00):
guarantee. is not made by yourself or by yourbusiness. It is co-sponsored by the state,
so co-sponsored by this fund. So the organismof investment actually co-invests in regular
(52:21):
VC and PE investment funds. To allocate a guaranteedsection of the funds, for these companies.
So while the money is not all from the state,but the state covers the percentage that allows
(52:42):
the funds to kind of skip over the risk managementaspect and not request collateral or not look
at the companies existing infrastructure ascollateral, but the percentage that is coming
from the state is what constitutes the collateralin that case. Wow, and you know, you, there
(53:08):
are probably a lot of Moroccans that don't evenknow that this exists. It's my own experience
and my consulting practice when founders, particularlyin deep tech. Have you applied for an SBIR?
What's that? It's a fabulous instrument fornon-dilutive funding and to really test your
ideas. So out of the lab and to potentiallycommercialization. Well, we're coming to almost
(53:33):
the end. Every single guest that joins the FoundersSandbox podcast, I ask you questions that are
related to really what I'm passionate about,purpose-driven companies, resilient companies,
and sustainable or scalable companies. Whatdoes resilience mean to you? And not one guest
(53:58):
has the same definition or meaning, and it'sjust a delight to hear what does resilience
mean for you, Khalid? So because of the wayI grew up and because of the way I, you know,
I structured all my businesses with zero regardto any particular business book, just because
(54:23):
I wanted to go on everything by instinct. Andmy instinct was very risk averse, which is
weird for an entrepreneur, because my objectivewas to basically take care of my family, take
care and support the development of my countryand young people that did. that were in the
(54:51):
same situation as I was, which is not havingaccess to opportunities and struggling throughout
their schooling, trying to find their way throughto a better future. And so that's why from
(55:13):
day one, I've never asked anybody that I'vehired for a degree. I've never asked them to
speak a particular language unless it was reallynecessary. I structured my company in a way
where people can work on what they really wantand they can change what they want to work
(55:34):
on at any point in time. I worked on the agilemodel way before it was as much of a trend
as it is in the past few years. We've had workfrom home since almost day one. The office
is there just for client meetings if the restof the teams are working from home. Yeah, I
(56:04):
mean, again, everybody, whenever I install somedifferent policy in the company or even when
I started the startup studio. model, it wasreally just to enable myself and people from
my organization that wanted to be entrepreneursand tell them, you know what, your family,
(56:25):
if you want to start a venture, or if you havea great idea, let's do it here. Why do you
have to like try to go unsupported anywhereelse and try to make it on your own? And so
resilience for me was a personal like a bigpersonal thing. I've had quite a few interesting
(56:48):
kind of runnings with health issues, you know,with a lot of... So I was in a wheelchair for
a year, as after, yeah, after an accident. Ihad typhoid fever coming out of nowhere and
(57:09):
the... antibacterial resistant one, so 60% chanceof not making it. I've had quite a few things
along the way that were that made it very hardto do what I wanted to do or to develop my
business or to even think straight. And so resilienceis a strong word for me because that's the
(57:34):
only thing I see as kind of a uh theme on mebuilding my business. It's how many challenges
and how many difficulties I've had to come throughto be able to access the opportunities that
I've had or to be able to develop uh you knowmy company just a passport you know how hard
(57:57):
it is to have a visa to Europe or the US oranywhere else with a Moroccan passport it's
ridiculous. So try it like making it to to yourmeetings and to sign like a big client to only
find that you've been refused a visa for somevery random, stupid reason. So again, resilience
(58:21):
for me as a person that came from where I camefrom has a very, very kind of existential meaning.
I can see that. And it ties probably into purpose-drivenenterprise. So purpose-driven.
define that? Those startups that go throughyour accelerators? I mean, what is that strikes
(58:44):
you? Curiosity. The startups that ran throughmy accelerator, one was in education, one was
in healthcare, one was in emergency. supportfor. So you can see the purpose going through
(59:05):
right there. And the health care one was because,you know, my my, my mom was going out, trying
to find, you know, some medicines for my cousinwho was staying with us at the time and couldn't
(59:25):
find a single it was a weekend. And so to finda pharmacy on the weekend, you have to be able
to like go and see on the ministry's website,what are the names of the pharmacies that are
open at any particular weekend and because theyswitch. So every weekend, it's different pharmacies
that you have to look for. And so it was veryinconvenient, very difficult to access. And
(59:48):
so I was like, why isn't there an app that canshow you on a map what is this weekend, the
active pharmacy? And then I was like, okay,so not only that, but every time you want to
go to the doctor, you have to look for the paperworkthat you've gone through your tests and whatever
that you've taken from your last visit. Whydon't, why wouldn't you be able to have that
(01:00:13):
on your phone? And so, yeah, all of that kindof culminated to a health personal assistant
that had all these functionalities. into oneapp. The emergency services, again, my mom
and dad had an accident. It was in the middleof the city and still they've had to wait almost
(01:00:36):
two hours for the emergency services to comein because it was in a darker alleyway and
they just, you know, they avoided a dog, I believe,and hit
kind of bad, severe
(01:00:59):
accidents. Yeah, sequels from that. And forme, it was like, how come that we don't have
a system that can notify emergency servicesto where you are instead of, you know, a person
that goes into an accident, even when they'reawake enough to call for, you know, the emergency
(01:01:19):
services. They have to find where they are,even though they're in another town or they're
disoriented. They have to describe where theyare to the emergency person. It seemed so easily
fixable with the basic technology. And so forme, that's what purpose is, is that we can't
(01:01:43):
change the world all at once. But we can changethe things that we see in our lives. And if
we changed it for us and for people that arearound us, that impact can grow. Because if
you have that issue, it's very likely that othersdo as well. And if you change what's around
(01:02:07):
you, that change will resonate. with everybodyaround you. The last point I will make is the
platform that I've contributed or led the developmentof under the OCP Foundation came again from
(01:02:29):
this very basic belief that people were goingto university, going for things that they didn't
really understand or want, they weren't welloriented when they came out of high school.
And then once that either that curriculum endsor doesn't even end or they drop out because
(01:02:53):
they don't, you know, they don't feel that theycan contribute through that, or simply don't
find a job, it's, you know, in biology or philosophyor whatever the case it is.
economic opportunity market. They, you know,what are they going to work in with a philosophy
(01:03:17):
degree other than, you know, in a mall or ina restaurant. And so, yes, there's a lot of
content that's available online for them tolearn a new skill, but they have to pay for
most of the things that give you enough credibilityor accreditation. to have access to higher
(01:03:41):
value economic opportunities. And so I was like,well, there is companies in the world that
have a lot of these programs that enable youto have access to the certificated learning
pathways within particularly within the digitaleconomy for free. You just need to be an organization
(01:04:08):
that's affiliated with this company and youneed to basically do a little bit of work to
fundraise or to get that kind of support. Andso I was like, why would my the young people
from my country and from my continent not haveaccess to these just because it's not usual?
(01:04:30):
for non-profits or organizations from our continentto have access to these things. And so that's
why I developed the platform. And because ofwho I'm connected with and people that I've
worked with throughout the years and my presenceinternationally, I knew who the director of
IBM CSR was and we've worked together on a fewthings before. I had a direct relationship
(01:04:57):
with the director of partnerships of Coursera,so I was able to reach out to him as well,
or the CEO of Microsoft Africa. So these connectionsenabled me to go say, hey, do you guys have
any problems with accrediting a non-profit inAfrica to be able to disperse those programs
(01:05:20):
that you do? And then taking those programsand putting them into a pedagogically better
structured environment for students to go throughone, two, and three to be able to be certified
as a professional of software development ordesign or data or cybersecurity. And so this
(01:05:41):
is again how I view purpose is that. seeingsomething that is wrong or that is that you
want to change within your environment and stoppingto think that you can't change the whole world.
But if you just, every one of us actually triesto change the things that they can throughout
(01:06:06):
their means and if they can stretch just a littlebit further to be able to impact. the person
next to them, I think that we'd have a muchbetter planet to live on. It was the Dalai
Lama that said, be the change you want to seein the world, right? Exactly. Fantastic. Sustainable
(01:06:27):
or scalable growth, what does that mean to you?When you see it, you know it, right? Yeah.
Sustainable for me is when everybody withinthe equation of your stakeholder circle is
happy with you being there. So if your companyis in a town where you made that town better,
(01:07:02):
if people that work for you don't want to leaveunless they're forced to.
The organizations that represent people thatwork for you, your clients, your beneficiaries,
whatever the case may be, are all going alongor aligned with your vision because of your
(01:07:30):
understanding of your presentation and you beingamenable to supporting those. elements of your
stakeholder engagement circle. For me, that'swhat sustainability is. And I mean it, obviously,
in a perfect world, right? So obviously, youknow, some organizations or some people will
(01:07:53):
have ulterior motives, some will have, you know,more personal things to go along. And as you
know, you know, corporate politics and nonprofitpolitics are real. thing that you need to be
careful of when you're trying to engage withyour stakeholder circle. But that's for me,
(01:08:15):
I still view it as to what to strive for. Andif you, you know, strive for the stars, the
land on the moon kind of thing. So if, you know,if that's the best or the perfect situation,
how do you try to approach or to get closerto that? Scalability for me, and I don't see
(01:08:39):
them as separate simply because I could havescaled my company to 10 times larger than it
is today. But the reason why I've chosen tostop the growth at a certain level is that
because that was the ideal size for me to beable to retain my sustainability. goals and
(01:09:04):
to retain the humanness of my organization,if that makes sense. Obviously, it's not a
choice for everyone, but I believe in that growthfor the sake of growth is no longer a sustainable
(01:09:26):
trajectory for the world. We're thinking infinitegrowth against finite resources. How do you
marry those two? And so for me now, giving theunderstanding to organizations that you can
actually be profitable without growing in thatkind of unruly, unmanaged, unlimited growth.
(01:09:58):
You can grow. with your stakeholders, you cangrow with your community. It will take a longer
time, yes, but it will also enable you to growin a more healthy environment, to be more solid
and more resilient actually, which is why alot of these kind of unicorns and hyper scalable,
(01:10:25):
as we call them companies, You find them, youknow, going into the ground a couple of years
later, it's because they stretched what hypergrowth is, and they've broken the chain of
both trust and resilience within their organization.Final question, Khalid. Did you have fun in
(01:10:46):
the sandbox today? Yes, it was very, very fun.Kind of, you know, you dug a lot out of me.
I think the last point is something that I don'tshare as much just because it's not as, you
know, I don't get questioned about it a lot,but it's definitely made me kind of re-remember
(01:11:10):
how I view sustainability and scalability andpurpose. So thank you so much for being such
a... both a graceful yet very investigativehost. That would be great. And I thank you
for the time. Again, we chose the title purposedesigning for NextAct. You've taken us through
(01:11:40):
a very fast paced and short period of time journeyalong the different choices you've made personally
and professionally. And I think you're wellon your way to your next act and you've put
the cornerstones in place. So thank you forsharing this. And I hope you achieved your
(01:12:03):
purpose, which was for this podcast, which wasnot too many people are thinking about their
next act. So I hope this podcast to my listeners,if you like this episode with Khalid Machate.
sign up for the monthly release. We gather founders,business owners, investors, corporate board
(01:12:26):
directors, and professional service providers,and motivational speakers who checks a lot
of the boxes like Khalid with his own journey,three-time exit founder, accelerator, sitting
on corporate boards, and giving back throughsocial impacts. Thank you again Khalid and
(01:12:50):
to my listeners, you can download and listento the Founder's Sandbox. Again, there's a
monthly release on any major streaming platform.So thank you, have a great rest of the day.
Thank you, you too.
Hi, I'm pleased to announce something very specialto me, a new subscription-based service through
Next Act Advisors that allows members exclusiveaccess to personal industry insights and bespoke
corporate governance knowledge. This comes inthe form of blogs, personal book recommendations,
(00:38):
and early access to the Founder's Sandbox podcastepisodes before they released to the public.
If you want more white glove information onbuilding your startup with information like
what was in today's episode, sign up with thelink in the show notes to enjoy being a special
member of Next Act Advisors. As a thank youto Founder's Sandbox listeners. you can use
(01:04):
code sandbox25 at checkout to enjoy 25% offyour membership costs. Thank you.
Welcome back to the Founder's Sandbox. The Founder'sSandbox podcast is now in its second season.
(01:24):
I am Brenda McCabe, the host. This monthly podcastreaches entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs and
business owners who learn about building resilient,purpose-driven and sustainable businesses with
great corporate governance. My mission is reallysimple. I bring guests to the podcast who themselves
(01:46):
are founders, business owners, corporate directors,investors, and professional service providers,
who like me want to use the power of the privateenterprise, be it small, medium or large, to
create change for a better world. Through storytellingwith each of my guests, including topics around
(02:07):
resilience, purpose-driven organizations, andsustainable growth, My goal is to provide a
fun sandbox environment where we can equip onestartup founder at a time to build a better
world through great corporate governance. Today,I'm absolutely delighted to have as my guest,
Khalid Machateh. He's joining the podcast todayas an accomplished three-time exit startup
(02:31):
founder, operator of a startup studio, boardof director positions, and now in his next
act. He is a member of Morocco's Royal AdvisoryCommittee by nomination from His Majesty King
Mohammed VI for the development of the kingdom.So thank you Khalid for joining me in the Founder's
(02:53):
Sandbox today. Thank you for having me, Brenda.Great. Well, you check mini boxes as a guest
to the Founder's Sandbox. And I talked aboutbusiness owners, corporate board directors,
professional service. But this topic we settled.upon his purpose. You know, we met for the
first time and you'd actually spent some timeon some podcasts as well as Next Act Advisors
(03:19):
consulting website. And you remarked to me,you know, I don't think there are a lot of
people that are thinking about their next act,right? And so we're gonna talk about throughout
the podcast today purpose, Kelly's purpose anddesigning for his next act. Maybe for my listeners,
(03:39):
we'll get a glimpse of some ideas of how one'sjourney, professional and personal, really
informs what your next act might be. So throughKhalid's origin story, he grew up in a small
fishing village in Morocco in a humble family.He developed and sold his first software at
(04:04):
the age of 11. And most recently, after many,many years, he joined as the youngest member
of Morocco's Royal Advisory Committee for theSpecial Commission on the Development Model
by nomination from His Majesty King MohammedVI, leading strategically the national development
agenda through inclusive and sustainable publicpolicies, technology, and innovation. We're
(04:30):
going to hear a little bit more about a statevisit that Khalid just had. in the United States
of America. No, in our conversations Khalid,we shared how we both in our businesses, we
intentionally and proactively work to providea roadmap through digital transformation and
human capital skill up with our clients. Thereis more to discover with you today. You know,
(04:56):
my journey of moving back to the United Statesafter over 25 years in Europe really became
my why, became purpose-driven, scalable, andvery resilient. And I took that into my business.
What would be your tagline, Khalid, if you wereto describe your journey?
(05:21):
My tagline would be probably the out of thebox since we're talking about, you know, so
we're in the Fambur sandbox. So it would probablybe the most out of the box Moroccan.
(05:49):
has been, basically that is what I hear fromeverybody, from my family to people that I
studied with back when I was in school, to peoplethat know me now. It's the, you don't fit into
any box that our kind of corporate world orbusiness world has. And so, yeah, that would
(06:16):
be my tagline. I love it. out of the box. Andagain, on your journey, it was fascinating
just to research not only your LinkedIn page,the many accolades that you've received over
the years. But more importantly, you have yourown website, Khalid Machate. And there I we
(06:37):
hadn't touched upon it, but you are an activepublic speaker. And you have speak around different
themes, technology, business and entrepreneurship,policy and governance, and you also share your
own story on the stage. So I'm gonna cut tothe chase. I am most interested for my listeners
(06:59):
at the Founder's Sandbox on your story. Of course.So my story can resonate with anybody that
grew up in a very small town. So I grew up ina... in a small fishing village in the south
(07:19):
of Morocco. The reason why that is that my fatherwas a public school teacher. And within our
schooling system, once you get a job as a publicschool teacher for the government, you get
assigned to where you're gonna start your career.And so you don't get a say into where you're
(07:41):
going. And so while we were living in McNaas,which is the city I was born in, after a year
of me being born, my father had his assignmentand we got assigned about 2000 kilometers south.
So
(08:04):
in the village, everything is late. The eventof internet is late. News are late, opportunities
are scarce, you don't get access to much. Thereare no associations for education or for children's
(08:25):
activities. And so basically we always had tomake up things ourselves. How to get entertained,
how to find access to music, et cetera. Andso one thing that I kind of stumbled upon,
(08:45):
because my father was interested in, was programming.So software programming. So my dad, again,
public school teacher salary for to give youan idea is around $250 a month for, you know,
when you're starting out your career. And sohe was trying to round up his end of months.
(09:10):
And so he self-learned how to fix computers.And a few years into fixing computers, he started
thinking, how can I add more to that service?And then started to learn how to program as
he kind of fixed himself a makeshift computerat home from the pieces that he would get from
(09:32):
each of the fixing jobs. And so, and all ofthis, I mean, he had his job, he had his salary.
So the self-starting and the initiative takingkind of came from there for me. It was definitely,
you know, a C to learn in my case. My dad nevertold me to do anything, never taught me to
(10:00):
code. He was very clear on, you know, I do whatI want with my time and I go and I enjoy myself
how I want it. But the books would be left aroundthe house, the coding books, and I got just
curious and I started taking those books andusing the software on my dad's computer and
(10:24):
learning how to code. And that was how I gotto creating my first kind of accomplished software.
Started around the age of nine and finishedit at around 11, where I started sharing it
with school buddies and then my teacher. Andat first it was just a, you know, here you
(10:52):
can burn the CD. if you want to learn, it wasa biology course, but made in an interactive
gamified way. Because I got bored at biologyclasses. And so what happened was, I started
giving it around, and a teacher of mine actually,not my father, told me, why aren't you like
(11:15):
making any money out of this? And I was like,well, I just thought I could help out. And
I was like, yes, but that is a lot of value.You spend a lot of time working on that. And
so, yeah. And so that's how I started sellingthe software. And then I ended up selling it
to school to distribute to their students. Andthat's how my first- At 11 years of age. Our
(11:41):
story. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah. And also, you know,you're a- a product of the public school system,
humble origins, and in your public speaking,you are probably very influential in Moroccan
(12:02):
youth today and other Middle Eastern environments,I would imagine. So- I hope though. That's
your goal. So thank you. You then went on to-
create two other businesses, can you speak tothem? And were they for profit or nonprofit?
(12:28):
So to continue on the story, then around theend of middle school, that's where my dad was
able to get reassigned to my birth city, whichwas McNeist. And so I started high school there.
Now, going from where I was, again, where internethad only been introduced at that point, maybe
(12:54):
a couple of years, three, four years beforethat. And so I started finding out that, oh,
in the big city, there are a lot more opportunities.So there are associations for students that
you can find internships and, you know, differentopportunities to learn more or to do kind of
(13:17):
side jobs or to find also just potential clientsbecause I was always still coding and still
making little websites, little management software,etc. And so it just kind of made me aware that
the world was a lot bigger than where I started.And at the same time hanging out with my family
(13:46):
and a cousin of mine introduced me to the cultureof manga, which is the Japanese cartoons. Yeah,
I was I think 14 at the time. And yeah, I lovedit. And I started watching quite a lot of it
while being fascinated by the culture. And soAt some point I started feeling that I was
(14:12):
getting fluid and understanding what was happeningon screen without having to read the subtitles.
And I was like, oh, that would be interesting.You know, I already understand. Maybe let's
try to learn also the grammatical aspects ofthe language so that I can, you know, say that
I speak another language, which is Japanese.
(14:36):
And so yeah, I looked online, I found quitea few websites and quite a few forums where
you could learn how to write, you could learnthe grammar, etc. of Japanese language. And
by the time I was in the end of high school,so the year of graduation from high school,
(14:58):
I was fairly fluent and I could write well.And so what I did was I got myself into an
NGO, a nonprofit that was catering towards universitystudents to have access to internships. And
(15:19):
those, you know, you have local internships,but also international internships. This was
an international NGO. And so I went to the NGO.I... And please, guys, do not hold me up to
this. I was 16 at the time. I lied my way throughto tell them that I was a student at university
(15:43):
while I was still in high school, just becauseI thought that it wasn't fair that I had the
knowledge and I had the possibility of accessingthis experience. But just because of my age,
I wasn't able to. to access it. And so that'swhat I did. I learned about a particular university
(16:03):
and I started saying that I was from that university.Happily enough, they did not check any, you
know, credentials and then didn't ask for myID. I didn't have an ID at the time. Again,
I was 16.
And so, yeah, I had my first interview in thespace of like a few weeks after I was enrolled
(16:27):
into the internship support program. I met withthe CEO of the small company in shipping in
Japan that were looking to hire an intern forto help them with their IT management system.
And five minutes from the beginning of the interview,the guy was trying to speak in English, and
(16:49):
it was very hard for him. And so I said, youknow what, we can switch to Japanese. Two hours
later, the obviously I was hired. But not onlythat, the guy was saying, you know what, I
cannot just hold you for myself. So I'm goingto share your resume with all of my CEO friends.
So basically, I became the this monkey savantthat's coming from the Orient, you know, speaking
(17:17):
the language and having looking nothing likewhat they're used to. He shared my resume with
I believe 20 of his friends and I ended up havingI think five projects at the same time
in the space of six months to do for all thesefolks. in Japan. So that was my first international
(17:43):
contract. But that's also that was the triggerfor me to start hiring other people because
well, I was overwhelmed by the amount of thingsthat I had to do. And so I just tried to look
for my friends that were you know, coders andhackers of time and people that could that
could help me out and started paying them, youknow, from out of pocket. And then thought,
(18:08):
oh, you know what? This is not very comfortable.Maybe I can, you know, I need a structure to
be able to do more, better invoicing or getpaid better. And so that's how I created my
first company, which ended up becoming my familyoffice now, which is KNW technology group.
And so just for reference, KNW technology group,now it's a, now it's a group. It's. in five
(18:37):
countries. I mean, we have offices in five countries,we have clients in almost 80 countries, we're
present in Africa, Europe, Middle East, andAPAC, Asia, and the US and covering the Americas.
And so, you know, we have quite a large footprint.But it started this way. It started by me.
(19:04):
At the age of 16, although you fibbed your waythrough it, right? And learning a language.
Amazing. Wow. So you've clearly owned businesses,scaled them not only nationally, but internationally,
and at a very, very tender age. Fast forward.OK, we won't talk about your age here. People
(19:30):
can read them in the show notes. There's somearticles for you to feature. So you can do
the math and discover Khalid's age. You thenstruck out pretty recently and decided to obtain
credentials as ESG leader with a certificationthat you pursued both with HSBC and KPMG. Can
(19:59):
you? What made you pivot to really going deepinto ESG, which today it's like, at least in
the United States, very front and center. Youwere a pioneer. So what made you pursue those
(20:20):
credentials, Khalid? Thank you.
In my case, and this was part of the initialconversation, which was preparing my next act.
So around, I believe 2018, 2019, particularly2019, I started feeling that I was kind of
(20:44):
ready to move on from managing the group. Andso throughout... kind of the 15 or something
years that I was at the head of the group anddeveloping it, you know, developing various
startups under the startup studio within thegroup. And all of that was exciting and, you
(21:07):
know, we were starting projects, but still theunderlying structure that is that you're running
a large company that answers to clients that,you know, does kind of major projects. They
all kind of start looking the same after a while.We've worked with over 20 industries. So we've
(21:28):
done the rounds. And so now it became more repetitiveand there's nothing new under the sun. They
started feeling that disconnect. And I reallywanted to, basically I had a succession plan
in place and I was always thinking that I neededto move on from this. This is now is a management
(21:56):
play and I'm a creative person, not the bestmanager or I'm not just not as excited about
managing an existing structure as I was startingthings and building new things and tinkering
with things. And so even throughout the 15 years,I've had the great luck of having great COO.
(22:22):
And so every now and then I would run away frommy duties as a group manager. And I would go
do something else. So I was the innovation directorfor the Abu Dhabi government for a while. I
was the, you know, an expert with the G20 inArgentina. I was. part of the World Economic
(22:46):
Forum panel of experts in Davos. I did quitea few things here and there that mainly had
to do with policy at the highest level, strategyand innovation and technology. And so that's
(23:07):
kind of what put me on the track of thinkingat the time. in the early 2010s is
the governance and the sustainability aspectis not as commonly talked about compared to
(23:29):
profits and margins, top lines.
And that kind of made me think, oh, so people,when they think about, you know, companies
and managing them, they're not thinking as muchabout the environments within which the companies
(23:51):
are evolving, as much as they think about, youknow, the ins and the outs of the company itself.
So there. And that made me, you know, realizethat, oh, I do want to create impact here and
how can I create impact here is by trying tointegrate technology in a way that improves
(24:18):
the relationship of a company to their environmentand their impact on their environment. And
so
in my next act planning was, okay, I'll transitionout of managing the group and I will seek to
(24:40):
understand better how to incorporate ESG principlesinto the board governance. And so the program,
which was a full year program, was a big kindof micro masters that was very heavily focused
(25:06):
on use cases of actual businesses and that'skind of the specialty of KPMG and more on the
financial integration from HSBC to understandsand become a well-qualified board director
(25:33):
for publicly traded companies, foundations,family offices, but with a large emphasis on
the ESG and on kind of changing the mindsetsin boards. So our role as graduates of this
program is not to be a regular board seat, butto be the kind of change and impact board seat
(25:59):
and to kind of negotiate our way into changingthe strategy of the company or the foundation
or the family office that we are in the boardof towards more impactful environment. Excellent.
So it started in the 2010s, you said, right?When you kind of cut out left the business
(26:24):
in charge of your COO, had the opportunity toinfluence policy, but technology related in
the MENA region, and then got formal credentialing2018, 2019. Still you were head of the wave,
right? So you do think out of the box, right?So today you do sit on a few corporate boards.
(26:52):
for profit and not for profit. What I wantedyou to share is some of the work you've done
with charitable foundations, your family foundationis one of them, but also for the for profit.
So can you speak to a few of the organizationswhere you have been sitting or you've turned
(27:14):
out but you've been sitting as a board member,please? role as board member was always, you
know, my way of being involved within a particularorganization where I can provide the maximum
(27:36):
value for the minimum amount of time. So that'skind of how I approached my next act, which
is I do want to have more of my time for myself.But at the same time, I still want to have
impact on a larger scale. And so that's howI both selected the organizations, whether
(28:03):
for or nonprofit, that I joined, obviously,other than the fact that I, you know, my personal
interests. But it was also my way of givingas much impact and of my value and expertise
as possible while respecting my own time andmy own kind of personal engagements. So I'll
(28:33):
talk a little bit about the first the nonprofitsas I wanted to be able to touch upon you know
all the the mission related or my purpose relatedfocus, which was always how do I improve the
(28:55):
basic life services for citizens of my countryand of Africa. This has been kind of a pulling.
a theme and mission for me for as long as Icould remember. And so one of the activities
(29:21):
that I've done is supporting Africa-based entrepreneursto have access to international markets and
to have access to international funding. Andso I was on the board of Demo Africa, which
was an initiative that selected some of thebest African startups. So what we mean by African
(29:47):
startups is startups that are made by Africanentrepreneurs and founders and that are targeted
towards a need within their market. So it'snot a global company or FinTech right away.
No, it's actually a company born out of a needthat addresses an African market. And so taking
(30:13):
those, giving them all the tools, teaching themhow to be presentable, how to be adapted towards
the international market, all the while keepingtheir focus and their mission on improving
the livelihoods of African, you know, of theircountry. Yeah, and so
(30:45):
I've done that for I believe three years. Youknow, in that in that time period, the organization
has helped founders raise, I believe over 150million US dollars. Yeah, my numbers are still
I still correct. A lot of them have joined amajor uh, renowned kind of accelerators like
(31:09):
Y Combinator and plug and play. Um, and a lotof them have gone to, uh, you know, establish
in, in multiple countries in the world, butalways having kind of this underlying mission
of serving the continent. Um, so that's one,uh, second would be, uh, the tech green foundation
of which I'm still on the, on the board. Thisis a MENA-based foundation that is there to
(31:37):
promote and celebrate impactful initiativesand people within the MENA region and supporting
them into growing and having more impact acrossthe region coming out of their particular country.
(32:00):
These are privately held, so there are a fewNDAs involved. I'll share just a little bit
of the underlying themes. So I'm on a familyoffice board that has multiple holding kind
of companies underneath the structure. And thereason why I joined is that because they wanted
(32:27):
to have a better way of quantifying their impacton the community and on also in bettering the
way they track their different investments acrossthe board. And so my role as an independent
board member was to come in, both help themwith understanding what the financial structures
(32:53):
and governance models are that would best suittheir multi-facility. industry focus, but also
how to integrate sustainable monitoring andevaluation practices within their strategic
oversight and how to structure their long-termstrategies with this in mind, with the sustainability
(33:19):
aspect in mind. Another one is a scale-up, whichis a larger startup. for the lack of a better
explanation. So a scale up, they've fundraised,I believe, four rounds till today. They're
growing within emerging markets, which is oneof the reasons why they've reached out. And
(33:45):
so their expansion within emerging markets hasfound a few blockages with regards to cultural
contextualization and understanding the mechanicsof emerging markets, which is one of the things
that I've worked within. Again, the 80 countriesthat I'm operating, a lot of them are, actually
(34:11):
most of them are within the emerging marketcategory. And so, yeah. My work was to support
them, understand how to contextualize for emergingmarkets, understand that the regulatory aspects
of each of these markets, and that they neededto account for that both from a risk management
(34:33):
standpoint, but also from an operational dilutionof culture and dilution of processes and principles.
And so... This might sound a little bit moretechnical, but obviously to our entrepreneurs
and board director listeners, it might be kindof what they do on a regular basis. But I just
(34:58):
wanted to give a little bit of insight on that.That is quite extensive. Thank you for that.
And there is at least two common themes, eitherin both the nonprofit for profit. It's all
around contextualizing for emerging markets,the regulatory regimes around technology, right?
(35:25):
And the environmental and impact and society,so ESG. So how it affects the livelihood of
those people, stakeholders, be they employees,suppliers, in the markets of these that these
companies for profit serve. So there is a common,common theme there Khalid. You know, you've
(35:53):
received many accolades. I'm going to name themoff here, and they will be in the show notes.
And I'll get to the question in a minute here.You've received the Forbes 30 under 30 in 2019.
You've received the United Nations 100 mostinfluential people of African descent. And
(36:18):
that was this year. The young Arab pioneer and2023 Africa lion and entrepreneur of the year
2017. And I don't know whether I left any out.But are is there one that you felt was more
rewarding than another in hindsight now?
(36:44):
Well, actually within the list, I mentionedmainly the ones that were a bit transformative
for me in a way. I believe the tally now isabout 30 international awards. And so the ones
(37:07):
I mentioned were mainly ones that came at aturning point in each case. So 2017 was kind
of the one of the largest international expansionyears for us. Okay. It was one where one of
(37:28):
our startups was, you know, very, very well.uh prized and poised within the uh the international
scene um and you know we had accolades fromeurope from the u.s um uh but the fact that
we've won the you know the africa lion and entrepreneurof the year for me was um oh so um you know
(37:56):
within my continent i am you know somebody seeswhat i'm doing and I'm doing something right.
Whenever you're in an international forum, youfeel like sometimes you're the token piece
of representation. That's either due to DI orwhatever the case may be, right? And so I've
(38:27):
come to appreciate the fact that I would bethe one opening the door perhaps for others.
And so being the first on the G20 stage or ata World Economic Forum stage became a way for
me to say, oh, so there, you know now that there'sthe possibility that you also as a Moroccan,
(38:48):
as an African, um, become part of this, um,uh, you know, become also, um, uh, Forbes 30
under 30 or, um, uh, speak at a World EconomicForum. But back then in 2017, again, I was
like this, you know, company founder with allmy focus being on how do I break my imposter
(39:13):
syndrome? You know, as a 20 something year old,how do I get over the fact that I feel that
everything is undeserved, whatever we receive.And so that was that that's why. that is on
the list that I shared with you because forme that was like, oh, so the, you know, the
(39:36):
idea of you can't be a prophet in your own community.Well, we've broken through that. The United
Nations one is just because that honors me asa person. Instead of, you know, some of my
(39:57):
companies or whatever the case may be, but that'snot you actually made impact beyond the organizations
that you've worked on that you've developedthat you've made. And so it felt like a, you
know, lifetime achievement award type thing,you know, it just happened on the year that
I finally put the mantle of the manager of thegroup down. And so it felt like a consecration
(40:27):
and a validation of all the 15 years that I'veworked towards and all the things that I've
done. So it was like, for me as a person thatI've done good. And the Forbes one was in 2019,
which came at the time where I was thinking,oh, I want to leave soon. And at the time,
(40:55):
before that, we didn't have any fancy, you know,kind of world-renowned prizes. We had regionals,
we had in Europe, we had in the US, but noneof these kind of everybody knows it award.
And at the same time, also, I was approaching30. And you know, the, the imposter syndrome
(41:20):
part started kicking in again, saying, Oh, you,everybody that's anybody has had a 30 under
30 listing, you know? So for, for founders,uh, that's kind of the, the Holy grail that
you, that once you get before 30, you're, youknow, you're stamped in stone. And so, yeah.
(41:42):
So it was, uh, it was really, uh, a fun thingto think, oh, I've gotten it actually a little
bit earlier than 30. But I got it and now Ican relax and get over, you know, the fact
that I get to the three zero, I got my Lister.
(42:04):
A lot of these are actually imposter syndromerelated but
and really putting yourself out there to bean example for aspiring entrepreneurs to see
(42:25):
that you can think out of the box and becomerelevant in the business world, while also
following some purpose, which is around sustainability,which is around human capital development,
and providing opportunities for the livelihoodof others. So. there is that commonality. One,
(42:48):
you know, when I was reflecting, reading yourmaterials in Seneca, the Roman philosopher
said, you know, luck is what happens when preparationmeets opportunity. So for your last, it's not
your last, it's your next and current involvement,you have been named the youngest member. of
(43:15):
the commission for the what is it called here?Yes, the Royal advisory committee, Royal Advisory
Committee by nomination from His Majesty KingMohammed for the development of the kingdom.
You recently did a State Department tour inseveral states here in the United States. And
(43:39):
while not, you know, revealing state secrets.know, what was what is that like? How does
that fit into your next act, Khalid? Um, ofcourse. So let's, you know, again, one of the
(44:00):
one of the things that I've done, and that,you know, And that I appreciate doing. And
I've done again throughout my professional career,getting out of managing the company was public
policy regarding like around technology andhow can different countries and states collaborate
(44:29):
with each other for the of their people's societalsituation or socioeconomic positioning. And
so since putting down the mantle as a manager,two things came to mind. One is that I wanted
(44:54):
to continue sharing my expertise. And that'swhere speaking, sitting on boards comes in.
So I don't want to let all of the experienceand all the richness of the things that I've
(45:15):
learned, that I've practiced go to waste. Andso that's one. And two, I want to be an eternal
learner. Like I have been throughout.
my work as an entrepreneur. I want to alwayslearn and always improve myself. And so the
(45:39):
program with KPMG and HSBC was the first oneon this journey, but I've also set up a few
learning journeys, let's call them. And this-to the US was one of them. And so the learning
(46:00):
is by meeting all sorts of actors within theUnited States, whether it's public or private,
around an open, secure digital economy. So talkingabout the subjects like cybersecurity, regulation
(46:20):
for AI, development of digital economy, understandingemergency management and all the things surrounding
how to regulate also blockchain and cryptocurrenciesand all of these things. So in three weeks,
(46:42):
we've met, I believe, above 50 organizationsfrom state actors to US attorneys offices to
companies like Discord or Plug and Play to universitieslike Carnegie Mellon and their centers for
(47:04):
research and development to organizations likeNIST. And so we've had quite a large panel
of organizations that we've collaborated withand kind of had these exchanges. of experience
and knowledge, both from the US standpoint,understanding how things function within the
(47:29):
US and what those organizations are workingon, but also from our side to give them a little
bit of what the rest of the world, how we viewregulation versus the US's view, how we view
the research and development paradigms. etc.So this was kind of it for me. It was a learning
(47:56):
journey but also a formal exchange with theseorganizations as you know a way for both of
us to develop a better understanding of thestate of the world of best practices from both
sides and it was definitely a great Thank you.You know, we were talking about your, the State
(48:26):
Department visit, and I shared with you thelargest seed fund in the United States of America
is the SPR, right? And it's different branches,you know, National Institutes of Health, the
National Science Foundation, etc. And I askedif they're, you weren't too familiar with that,
(48:47):
right? Small business. Innovation Research,SBIR, and early, early proof of concept, phase
one and phase two with $250,000, typically non-dilutive.That's kind of how the US does it. And the
equivalent in Morocco, what were you sharingwith me? Because I thought it was fascinating.
(49:08):
Yes. Can you share? Sounds good. So akin tothe SBIR, which you mentioned during our last
conversation, in Morocco we have an organizationcalled, previously called the CCG, but now
it's called Temwilcom, which is kind of a stateinvestment vehicle. It invests in a lot of
(49:38):
traditional environments, as the state investmentvehicle. It has also an SME and startup support
vertical. It started, I believe about sevenyears ago throughout a co-funding from World
(49:59):
Bank. I believe it was a 50, $50 million co-investment,so $100 million in total. And it is structured
for Moroccan entrepreneurs as follows. You haveup to... It started as up to $20,000, now it's
(50:23):
$40,000 of grants. So, full grant. Then thereis an addition of, it was $70,000, now I believe
it's $100,000, $120,000. And it's cumulative,so like if you start the first one and you
(50:45):
are at the end of the funding, you can requestthe second one. The second one is what we call
an honor debt, which is basically non-dilutive,non-collateralized funding. So basically, if
your company makes it, great. Then you have,they call it a couple of grace periods, so
(51:13):
I believe three or four years where you don'thave to pay back. and then you start paying
back in small installments. If your companymakes it, if your company doesn't make it and
closes, that's fine. And there's no pursuitof recuperation of fund from your person. And
(51:34):
so, above this, so between the two, I believewe're at $160,000 between the grants, at least
in the current edition, which starts this year.And afterwards, you get, I believe, up to $350,000
or $400,000, and that's dilutive capital. Butwith no, like, where the collateral or the
(52:00):
guarantee. is not made by yourself or by yourbusiness. It is co-sponsored by the state,
so co-sponsored by this fund. So the organismof investment actually co-invests in regular
(52:21):
VC and PE investment funds. To allocate a guaranteedsection of the funds, for these companies.
So while the money is not all from the state,but the state covers the percentage that allows
(52:42):
the funds to kind of skip over the risk managementaspect and not request collateral or not look
at the companies existing infrastructure ascollateral, but the percentage that is coming
from the state is what constitutes the collateralin that case. Wow, and you know, you, there
(53:08):
are probably a lot of Moroccans that don't evenknow that this exists. It's my own experience
and my consulting practice when founders, particularlyin deep tech. Have you applied for an SBIR?
What's that? It's a fabulous instrument fornon-dilutive funding and to really test your
ideas. So out of the lab and to potentiallycommercialization. Well, we're coming to almost
(53:33):
the end. Every single guest that joins the FoundersSandbox podcast, I ask you questions that are
related to really what I'm passionate about,purpose-driven companies, resilient companies,
and sustainable or scalable companies. Whatdoes resilience mean to you? And not one guest
(53:58):
has the same definition or meaning, and it'sjust a delight to hear what does resilience
mean for you, Khalid? So because of the wayI grew up and because of the way I, you know,
I structured all my businesses with zero regardto any particular business book, just because
(54:23):
I wanted to go on everything by instinct. Andmy instinct was very risk averse, which is
weird for an entrepreneur, because my objectivewas to basically take care of my family, take
care and support the development of my countryand young people that did. that were in the
(54:51):
same situation as I was, which is not havingaccess to opportunities and struggling throughout
their schooling, trying to find their way throughto a better future. And so that's why from
(55:13):
day one, I've never asked anybody that I'vehired for a degree. I've never asked them to
speak a particular language unless it was reallynecessary. I structured my company in a way
where people can work on what they really wantand they can change what they want to work
(55:34):
on at any point in time. I worked on the agilemodel way before it was as much of a trend
as it is in the past few years. We've had workfrom home since almost day one. The office
is there just for client meetings if the restof the teams are working from home. Yeah, I
(56:04):
mean, again, everybody, whenever I install somedifferent policy in the company or even when
I started the startup studio. model, it wasreally just to enable myself and people from
my organization that wanted to be entrepreneursand tell them, you know what, your family,
(56:25):
if you want to start a venture, or if you havea great idea, let's do it here. Why do you
have to like try to go unsupported anywhereelse and try to make it on your own? And so
resilience for me was a personal like a bigpersonal thing. I've had quite a few interesting
(56:48):
kind of runnings with health issues, you know,with a lot of... So I was in a wheelchair for
a year, as after, yeah, after an accident. Ihad typhoid fever coming out of nowhere and
(57:09):
the... antibacterial resistant one, so 60% chanceof not making it. I've had quite a few things
along the way that were that made it very hardto do what I wanted to do or to develop my
business or to even think straight. And so resilienceis a strong word for me because that's the
(57:34):
only thing I see as kind of a uh theme on mebuilding my business. It's how many challenges
and how many difficulties I've had to come throughto be able to access the opportunities that
I've had or to be able to develop uh you knowmy company just a passport you know how hard
(57:57):
it is to have a visa to Europe or the US oranywhere else with a Moroccan passport it's
ridiculous. So try it like making it to to yourmeetings and to sign like a big client to only
find that you've been refused a visa for somevery random, stupid reason. So again, resilience
(58:21):
for me as a person that came from where I camefrom has a very, very kind of existential meaning.
I can see that. And it ties probably into purpose-drivenenterprise. So purpose-driven.
define that? Those startups that go throughyour accelerators? I mean, what is that strikes
(58:44):
you? Curiosity. The startups that ran throughmy accelerator, one was in education, one was
in healthcare, one was in emergency. supportfor. So you can see the purpose going through
(59:05):
right there. And the health care one was because,you know, my my, my mom was going out, trying
to find, you know, some medicines for my cousinwho was staying with us at the time and couldn't
(59:25):
find a single it was a weekend. And so to finda pharmacy on the weekend, you have to be able
to like go and see on the ministry's website,what are the names of the pharmacies that are
open at any particular weekend and because theyswitch. So every weekend, it's different pharmacies
that you have to look for. And so it was veryinconvenient, very difficult to access. And
(59:48):
so I was like, why isn't there an app that canshow you on a map what is this weekend, the
active pharmacy? And then I was like, okay,so not only that, but every time you want to
go to the doctor, you have to look for the paperworkthat you've gone through your tests and whatever
that you've taken from your last visit. Whydon't, why wouldn't you be able to have that
(01:00:13):
on your phone? And so, yeah, all of that kindof culminated to a health personal assistant
that had all these functionalities. into oneapp. The emergency services, again, my mom
and dad had an accident. It was in the middleof the city and still they've had to wait almost
(01:00:36):
two hours for the emergency services to comein because it was in a darker alleyway and
they just, you know, they avoided a dog, I believe,and hit
kind of bad, severe
(01:00:59):
accidents. Yeah, sequels from that. And forme, it was like, how come that we don't have
a system that can notify emergency servicesto where you are instead of, you know, a person
that goes into an accident, even when they'reawake enough to call for, you know, the emergency
(01:01:19):
services. They have to find where they are,even though they're in another town or they're
disoriented. They have to describe where theyare to the emergency person. It seemed so easily
fixable with the basic technology. And so forme, that's what purpose is, is that we can't
(01:01:43):
change the world all at once. But we can changethe things that we see in our lives. And if
we changed it for us and for people that arearound us, that impact can grow. Because if
you have that issue, it's very likely that othersdo as well. And if you change what's around
(01:02:07):
you, that change will resonate. with everybodyaround you. The last point I will make is the
platform that I've contributed or led the developmentof under the OCP Foundation came again from
(01:02:29):
this very basic belief that people were goingto university, going for things that they didn't
really understand or want, they weren't welloriented when they came out of high school.
And then once that either that curriculum endsor doesn't even end or they drop out because
(01:02:53):
they don't, you know, they don't feel that theycan contribute through that, or simply don't
find a job, it's, you know, in biology or philosophyor whatever the case it is.
economic opportunity market. They, you know,what are they going to work in with a philosophy
(01:03:17):
degree other than, you know, in a mall or ina restaurant. And so, yes, there's a lot of
content that's available online for them tolearn a new skill, but they have to pay for
most of the things that give you enough credibilityor accreditation. to have access to higher
(01:03:41):
value economic opportunities. And so I was like,well, there is companies in the world that
have a lot of these programs that enable youto have access to the certificated learning
pathways within particularly within the digitaleconomy for free. You just need to be an organization
(01:04:08):
that's affiliated with this company and youneed to basically do a little bit of work to
fundraise or to get that kind of support. Andso I was like, why would my the young people
from my country and from my continent not haveaccess to these just because it's not usual?
(01:04:30):
for non-profits or organizations from our continentto have access to these things. And so that's
why I developed the platform. And because ofwho I'm connected with and people that I've
worked with throughout the years and my presenceinternationally, I knew who the director of
IBM CSR was and we've worked together on a fewthings before. I had a direct relationship
(01:04:57):
with the director of partnerships of Coursera,so I was able to reach out to him as well,
or the CEO of Microsoft Africa. So these connectionsenabled me to go say, hey, do you guys have
any problems with accrediting a non-profit inAfrica to be able to disperse those programs
(01:05:20):
that you do? And then taking those programsand putting them into a pedagogically better
structured environment for students to go throughone, two, and three to be able to be certified
as a professional of software development ordesign or data or cybersecurity. And so this
(01:05:41):
is again how I view purpose is that. seeingsomething that is wrong or that is that you
want to change within your environment and stoppingto think that you can't change the whole world.
But if you just, every one of us actually triesto change the things that they can throughout
(01:06:06):
their means and if they can stretch just a littlebit further to be able to impact. the person
next to them, I think that we'd have a muchbetter planet to live on. It was the Dalai
Lama that said, be the change you want to seein the world, right? Exactly. Fantastic. Sustainable
(01:06:27):
or scalable growth, what does that mean to you?When you see it, you know it, right? Yeah.
Sustainable for me is when everybody withinthe equation of your stakeholder circle is
happy with you being there. So if your companyis in a town where you made that town better,
(01:07:02):
if people that work for you don't want to leaveunless they're forced to.
The organizations that represent people thatwork for you, your clients, your beneficiaries,
whatever the case may be, are all going alongor aligned with your vision because of your
(01:07:30):
understanding of your presentation and you beingamenable to supporting those. elements of your
stakeholder engagement circle. For me, that'swhat sustainability is. And I mean it, obviously,
in a perfect world, right? So obviously, youknow, some organizations or some people will
(01:07:53):
have ulterior motives, some will have, you know,more personal things to go along. And as you
know, you know, corporate politics and nonprofitpolitics are real. thing that you need to be
careful of when you're trying to engage withyour stakeholder circle. But that's for me,
(01:08:15):
I still view it as to what to strive for. Andif you, you know, strive for the stars, the
land on the moon kind of thing. So if, you know,if that's the best or the perfect situation,
how do you try to approach or to get closerto that? Scalability for me, and I don't see
(01:08:39):
them as separate simply because I could havescaled my company to 10 times larger than it
is today. But the reason why I've chosen tostop the growth at a certain level is that
because that was the ideal size for me to beable to retain my sustainability. goals and
(01:09:04):
to retain the humanness of my organization,if that makes sense. Obviously, it's not a
choice for everyone, but I believe in that growthfor the sake of growth is no longer a sustainable
(01:09:26):
trajectory for the world. We're thinking infinitegrowth against finite resources. How do you
marry those two? And so for me now, giving theunderstanding to organizations that you can
actually be profitable without growing in thatkind of unruly, unmanaged, unlimited growth.
(01:09:58):
You can grow. with your stakeholders, you cangrow with your community. It will take a longer
time, yes, but it will also enable you to growin a more healthy environment, to be more solid
and more resilient actually, which is why alot of these kind of unicorns and hyper scalable,
(01:10:25):
as we call them companies, You find them, youknow, going into the ground a couple of years
later, it's because they stretched what hypergrowth is, and they've broken the chain of
both trust and resilience within their organization.Final question, Khalid. Did you have fun in
(01:10:46):
the sandbox today? Yes, it was very, very fun.Kind of, you know, you dug a lot out of me.
I think the last point is something that I don'tshare as much just because it's not as, you
know, I don't get questioned about it a lot,but it's definitely made me kind of re-remember
(01:11:10):
how I view sustainability and scalability andpurpose. So thank you so much for being such
a... both a graceful yet very investigativehost. That would be great. And I thank you
for the time. Again, we chose the title purposedesigning for NextAct. You've taken us through
(01:11:40):
a very fast paced and short period of time journeyalong the different choices you've made personally
and professionally. And I think you're wellon your way to your next act and you've put
the cornerstones in place. So thank you forsharing this. And I hope you achieved your
(01:12:03):
purpose, which was for this podcast, which wasnot too many people are thinking about their
next act. So I hope this podcast to my listeners,if you like this episode with Khalid Machate.
sign up for the monthly release. We gather founders,business owners, investors, corporate board
(01:12:26):
directors, and professional service providers,and motivational speakers who checks a lot
of the boxes like Khalid with his own journey,three-time exit founder, accelerator, sitting
on corporate boards, and giving back throughsocial impacts. Thank you again Khalid and
(01:12:50):
to my listeners, you can download and listento the Founder's Sandbox. Again, there's a
monthly release on any major streaming platform.So thank you, have a great rest of the day.
Thank you, you too.
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