September 5, 2024 • 35 mins
On todays episode, Brenda speaks with Marcia Dawood. Marcia is a passionate advocate for positive change in empowering and educating everyone on how to invest. Her book "Do Good While Doing Well – Invest For Change, Reap Financial Rewards and Increase Your Happiness", is due out in September 2024 and this episode provides previews to our listeners.
Brenda and Marcia speak about Purpose: Doing Good While Doing Well. How Marcia lives her purpose is as an author, host of the podcast The Angel Next Door, Chair Emeritus of (ACA)Angel Capital Association, the global professional society for angel investors, and on the board of Stella, a non-profit that supports female entrepreneurs. She is also a Venture partner at Mindshift Capital, and she currently serves on the SEC Securities and Exchange Commission’s Small Business Capital Formation Advisory Committee.
You can find out more about Marcia at:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/marciadawood/
Watch her Tedx Talk here
Order her Book here
Interview with Catherine Gray host of She Angels Series- Invest in Her:
You can subscribe to Next Act Advisors at https://nextactadvisors.com/product/subscriptions/ and be sure to use the special discount code "sandbox25" for friends of The Founder's Sandbox for 25% off your subscription.
Transcript:
00:04
We're standing on the edge of something big. We're going to make some changes. Hi, I'm pleased to announce something very special to me, a new subscription-based service through Next Act Advisors that allows members exclusive access to personal industry insights and bespoke
00:32
corporate governance knowledge. This comes in the form of blogs, personal book recommendations, and early access to the founder's sandbox podcast episodes before they released to the public. If you want more white glove information on building your startup with information like what was in today's episode, sign up with the link in the show notes to enjoy being a special member of Next Act Advisors.
01:01
As a thank you to Founders Sandbox listeners, you can use code SANDBOX25 at checkout to enjoy 25% off your membership costs. Thank you.
01:18
So welcome back to the Founder's Sandbox. I am Brenda McCabe, host of this monthly podcast now in its third season. This monthly podcast that reaches entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs and business owners who learn about building resilience, scalable and sustainable businesses with great corporate governance. I want to assist entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs in building those scalable, well-governed and resilient businesses. And by way of
01:47
inviting guests to the podcast who are themselves founders, business owners, corporate directors, investors, and professional service providers who also share my mission, which is using the power of the private enterprise, be that small meeting at large to create change for a better world. Through storytelling with my guests on topics that are going to include resilience, purpose-driven, and sustainable growth,
02:16
My goal through this podcast is to provide a fun sandbox environment where we can equip one startup founder at a time to build a better world through great corporate governance. I'm absolutely delighted today. My guest is Marsha Dalwood. She's joining the podcast. She checks a lot of boxes, but she's today joining as a passionate advocat
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
We're standing on the edge of something big.We're going to make some changes. Hi, I'm pleased
to announce something very special to me, anew subscription-based service through Next
(00:25):
Act Advisors that allows members exclusive accessto personal industry insights and bespoke corporate
governance knowledge. This comes in the formof blogs, personal book recommendations, and
early access to the founder's sandbox podcastepisodes before they released to the public.
(00:46):
If you want more white glove information onbuilding your startup with information like
what was in today's episode, sign up with thelink in the show notes to enjoy being a special
member of Next Act Advisors. As a thank youto Founders Sandbox listeners, you can use
code SANDBOX25 at checkout to enjoy 25% offyour membership costs. Thank you.
(01:18):
So welcome back to the Founder's Sandbox. Iam Brenda McCabe, host of this monthly podcast
now in its third season. This monthly podcastthat reaches entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs
and business owners who learn about buildingresilience, scalable and sustainable businesses
with great corporate governance. I want to assistentrepreneurs and entrepreneurs in building
(01:42):
those scalable, well-governed and resilientbusinesses. And by way of inviting guests to
the podcast who are themselves founders, businessowners, corporate directors, investors, and
professional service providers who also sharemy mission, which is using the power of the
(02:03):
private enterprise, be that small meeting atlarge to create change for a better world.
Through storytelling with my guests on topicsthat are going to include resilience, purpose-driven,
and sustainable growth, My goal through thispodcast is to provide a fun sandbox environment
where we can equip one startup founder at atime to build a better world through great
(02:26):
corporate governance. I'm absolutely delightedtoday. My guest is Marsha Dalwood. She's joining
the podcast. She checks a lot of boxes, butshe's today joining as a passionate advocate
for positive change by empowering and educatingeveryone on how to invest. So when I met Marcia
(02:51):
back in February through one of our events withTy So Kow, she had launched or was speaking
about launching her book that's coming out onSeptember 10th, Do Good While Doing Well, Invest
for Change, Reap Financial Rewards, and IncreaseYour Happiness. I couldn't help but ask her
(03:12):
to be a guest because she also has passion ora mission, and that is for positive change.
And one of many things she's done is authoringthis book, which we'll get into a sneak preview
of the contents of this book before its launchon September 10th, 2024.
(03:34):
I like to choose a title with my guests thatare around purpose or sustainability or resilience.
And we chose a title for this episode whichis purpose, do good while doing well. So thank
you today for joining me, Marcia. So happy tohave you here in the Founder Sandbox. Oh, I'm
(03:54):
so happy to be here. Excellent. So, you know,our paths crossed, I mentioned it earlier at
the Thai SoCal chapter, the Indus EntrepreneursSoCal chapter, where you spoke recently on
some of the data coming out the Angel CapitalAssociation, as well as your role with the
(04:18):
SEC. Before I get into my first question, Idid want to give my listeners your entire background,
your biography. It's very impressive and veryextensive. You live your purpose as a multifaceted
professional, your author of the book that Ijust mentioned, Do Good While Doing Well. You
(04:43):
are also a host of a podcast, The Angel NextDoor. You are chair emeritus of Angel Capital
Association, ACA. It's a global professionalsociety for angel investors. And you're on
the board of Stella, a nonprofit that supportsfemale entrepreneurs. You're also a venture
(05:05):
partner at MindShift Capital, and you currentlyserve on the SEC. Securities and Exchange Commission's
Small Business Capital Formation Advisory Committee.So thank you for bringing your expertise here
into this podcast today. Well, thank you forhaving me. So can you share for my listeners
(05:25):
some of the highlights you walked us throughin February while distinguishing the role of
an angel investor, a range of fund groups versusVC? I mean, some of the trends you're seeing
in the markets. Sure. Well, to put it very basically,an angel investor is somebody who writes checks
(05:51):
out of their own checkbook. A venture capitalistwill pool funds from other people, so they're
using other people's money. And therefore, they'reheld to certain standards, and they're held
to certain financial returns that their investorsare expecting. So angels, while we also of
course would love and expect a financial return,we invest in the things that we really care
(06:14):
about and are very passionate about. And wedon't necessarily have the same time horizons
and the same guidelines that venture capitalistsdo, which makes us a little bit more plausible
for being immutable for being able to do certainthings and invest in the way that we want to.
So, Over the last two years, especially maybeeven going on two and a half now, the market
(06:39):
has been very challenging for entrepreneursto fundraise at any stage. The market has been
very challenging for exits and liquidity. Soangel investing or investing in early stage
private companies means that you're investingin a company that is not. publicly traded on
(07:02):
the stock market, like you would see a stocklike Apple or something like that. Got it.
In order for the investor to have any type ofliquidity, there has to be an event. Either
the company is sold, or in rare instances, thecompany would go onto a public stock market,
or an IPO, as we call it. So in those particularinstances, when there is liquidity, then that
(07:29):
money can in a way can oftentimes be put backinto the startup scene, the entrepreneurial
ecosystem, as we call it. And a lot of times,investors will take any money that they do
get as a gain from a previous investment andput it into other startup companies so that
capital can keep flowing. That's kind of thewhole idea behind as people are getting returns.
(07:55):
So that's really the biggest difference betweenan angel investor and a venture capitalist.
But right now it's been challenging for everyonebecause of this lack of liquidity that we've
been seeing in the marketplace for the lasttwo and a half years. Now we do think that
there's been some talk that market is gonnastart to open up a little bit more. We will
(08:15):
see more M&A activity. And if that's the case,then hopefully we will start to see more liquidity
and then there will be more capital for investing.And as an asset class, right? Angel investing.
And with your role as chair emeritus and whileyou were also chair of ACA, what spurred you
(08:38):
to write about angel investing, right? Is thisthe culmination of your years of experience?
Walk my listeners through what made you takethe time to actually write a book, do good
while doing well. Yeah, I think it was out offrustration more than anything. I would talk
(08:59):
to people, even neighbors, friends, people Iwould meet at an event. And I would say, yeah,
I'm an angel investor. I help early stage companies.And they were like, wow, that seems really
interesting. And I would say, well, you couldbe an angel investor too. And they would be
like, me? I could be an angel investor? I thoughtthat was only for the rich and well-connected.
(09:22):
that isn't something I could do. I don't knowanything about that. I don't have a degree
in finance. I don't really think that's forme. So it wasn't that they didn't want to do
it. They really just didn't believe that itwas something that they were able to do in
a way, either from a wealth or income standpointor from a knowledge standpoint. So I thought,
(09:44):
wait a minute, I think there's an awarenessproblem here because we have all these amazing
entrepreneurs. They're building incredible innovationsthat the world needs. But they're really struggling.
I mean, struggling with fundraising. And it'sone of the hardest things that they end up
doing. And it's like a full-time job on topof the full-time job of them trying to build
(10:04):
this company. So wait a minute, how can we fixthis problem? Well, we could fix the problem
if more people got involved and became investors,but that seems daunting. So I thought, well,
how can I help people realize that doesn't reallyhave to be quite so daunting? And you can kind
of nowadays because of a lot of the regulatorychanges that have happened in the last eight
(10:27):
to 10 years, you can maybe step your way intoit and really start to learn with basically
putting less money at risk and you're gainingknowledge at the same time. You can also be
a mentor to startup companies. That's becomevery popular and needed in the last several
years. All of these things that people don'treally know about, that was what I was trying
(10:50):
to do, demystify it. Right. And if you had toprovide a sneak preview on the gut of your
book, what would that be? Set takeaway. Andwho should be your target audience? Is it just
the, is it actually entrepreneurs or is it thosepeople that are just kind of wanting to become
(11:11):
more informed around the asset class? Yeah,great question. So I wrote the book for people
who want to make a difference, but they justdon't know how one person alone can do that.
Okay. I think you feel that charity is a greatway to give back, which of course it is, but
they have no idea that this asset class alsoexists in a way that you can give back and
(11:35):
potentially get a financial return at the sametime. So that's really who I wrote the book
for. As far as a sneak peek as to what's inthe book, it is a Y2 book. about angel investing.
So I saw that there were several books out thereand some of them are really amazing on how
to angel invest. And most, if not all of them,have the words angel investing in the title.
(11:58):
I thought to myself, wait a minute, if somebodyreally wants to learn about this, but they
don't even know that it exists or that it'saccessible to them, why would they ever pick
up a book on how to be an angel investor? Becausethis has never even crossed their radar. So
how can I attract them? to think about thingsin a different way, to think about how they
might use some of their capital in a differentway. And when I say capital, I don't just mean
(12:23):
money. It can be their human capital, theirtime. They could be helping an entrepreneur
through mentorship. How can they start to lookat the resources that they have in order to
help grow innovative companies? How can theythink about that differently so that they will
want to then go and help either people in theirlocal community and in their local area? or
(12:44):
maybe even startups nationwide or globally.I did watch your TEDx talk and I really do
like how you have positioned the asset classor why is angel investing important if you
want to make a difference versus charitablegiving. And in your TEDx talk that will be
(13:08):
in the show notes, you illustrated that extremelywell. That's very unique. Yes, thank you. And
I really want people to donate to charity, helpcharities, that's fantastic. But we've put
such a burden on them and they don't have theresources. They don't have the ability to actually
(13:30):
take some of these innovations forward. We needthose for-profit companies too. And when you
look at the amount of charitable giving thathappens in the U.S. annually, it's about 475.
billion, which is a lot of money. And that'swonderful. But that is equivalent to only about
1% of the value of the US stock market. So whenwe put things into perspective, it's really
(13:54):
not doing any of these nonprofits of good serviceto say that we're going to put the burden all
on you. And what is the size currently of theasset class as angel investing per ACA? Well,
pretty much, if you look at the SEC data, Themost recent data has around $30 billion is
(14:14):
where the angel asset class kind of lands. Andthen from there, we can look at that as far
as there's angel groups, there's angel funds,and then there are individual angels. I tend
to be a pretty big proponent and fan of angelfunds. It allows somebody to put in a certain
(14:36):
amount of money and nowadays it does not haveto be a quarter of a million dollars or any
crazy big amount, they could put in a couplethousand dollars and get access to a diversified
portfolio, which would allow them to spreadtheir risk and not necessarily put all their
eggs in one basket, as you would say. Right,right. Let's kind of switch gears here. While
(15:03):
not entirely leaving your experience behindfrom ACA, you're currently, so you, are you've
had many women leadership roles, right? Now,whether you got there as a woman, I don't believe
so, but what you've had many women leadershiproles, most recent, well, maybe the most, I
(15:25):
think, relevant for this podcast is you arecurrently an advisor to the SEC's... Small
Business Capital Formation Advisory Committee.Now getting there, and it really ties in well
with corporate governance and how to do things,well informed with data so as to provide our
(15:47):
regulatory structures or financial or legalwith guidance and you're representing the small
business world. Are you the only woman on theadvisory committee? Talk to me through some
of the women leadership roles you have had andhow you've obtained them and how you are opening
opportunities for other women leaders. Yeah.So I have been on the investment committee
(16:13):
of several funds. Okay. We were specificallyfocused on helping to get capital to female
founders. If you look at the data over the lastseveral years, although in angel world, it
is improving in the venture capital world. Andwhen you for the bigger dollars that companies
really need to scale. The statistics show it'sbeen, you know, two to 3% of the funding goes
(16:40):
to women and the rest goes to male led companies.So I've really been trying to help change that.
And one of the ways to change that is to getthe check writers or the people making the
decisions about where the money goes to be morediverse. So to me, it was important to serve
on some of these different investment committeesfor various funds, help with angel groups.
(17:03):
member of Golden Seeds, which invests only inwomen-led companies. I'm also a venture partner
for MindShift Capital, where we invest in women-ledcompanies globally. So those were things that
were important to me. At the Angel Capital Association,I also started with a couple of my peers. We
started a group called Growing Women's Capital.It's a peer group within the Angel Capital
(17:26):
Association, where we help bring focus and attentionto the female founders who are fundraising
at the time. And so those were all things thatwere important to me. As far as getting to
be able to participate on the SEC's advisorycommittee, that's been great. And it is an
extremely diverse committee, which I absolutelylove. There's really representation there from
(17:52):
men, women, racial disabilities, I mean, everythingso that every group, I feel has a voice at
the table because we're trying to representsmall businesses across the country. And that
doesn't necessarily always mean startups, startupsare scale businesses that people would want
to invest in. But we also have people on thecommittee who are representing your Main Street
(18:18):
businesses as well, coffee shops, things likethat. Excellent. And the, can you talk a little
bit about Stella? It's also. a nonprofit groupin which you've been involved, I think, since
its inception. I have definitely been a championand a supporter for Stella since its inception.
(18:41):
I've only been on the board for a very shortperiod of time. But the organization is really
wonderful. They have done a lot as far as entrepreneurialeducation for women. They have an archive on
their website of different. different educationalmaterials. They have an accelerator. They're
(19:03):
always promoting ways that more female founderscan get in front of investors. So they're doing
some really good work over there. Can you getinto a bit what is your role on the Small Business
Capital Formation Advisory Committee? How oftendo you guys meet? What is the agenda? And what
(19:24):
is the term? Because this is just one of many.advisory committees under the auspices of the
SEC? I'm just fascinated on what is the actualgovernance around that. Sure. So it's a four-year
term, and I'm one year in as of now. We meetquarterly, usually in person at the offices
(19:46):
in Washington, DC. Sometimes we meet virtually.It just kind of depends on the situation, but
usually we meet in person. Meetings are allrecorded. and broadcast live over the SEC's
website. So anyone who wanted to go back andwatch any of the meetings, or if you wanted
(20:07):
to watch any of the future meetings live, thatis absolutely doable. They're always listed
on sec.gov, the website. So the role is reallyfor us to be able to help the commission get
a better sense of what's happening, kind ofboots on the ground. So each of us has a little
(20:29):
bit of a different angle for how we representsmall businesses. I of course come with the
angel investing lens. There's another personon the committee who has a debt crowdfunding
platform that he founded. And that's a veryinteresting perspective since that's something
that's kind of newer to the state of how entrepreneurscan fundraise. So we're all. trying to have
(20:55):
basically a conversation about some of the challengesthat entrepreneurs face when it comes to fundraising.
And one of the things that we tackled quiteheavily, at least for the first few meetings
that I was involved in was the accredited investordefinition. Got it. As it stands right now,
(21:15):
to be an accredited investor means you haveto have a certain level of wealth or income,
$200,000 by yourself, 300,000 with a partner.or a million dollars in net worth minus your
home. And there was talk or has been talk thatcould be indexed or changed or raised. And
we did some rough calculations at the AngelCapital Association. There were also calculations
(21:37):
done, then I don't remember the exact numbers,but you could go even go back and watch our
meeting on sec.gov and you'd be able to seethat, but it would eliminate. a lot of the
people who were already angel investors. Andwe only have about 300,000 angel investors
in the country. And remember, there's about330 million of us here that live in the US.
(21:59):
So, there's a lot of opportunity, let's justsay that. And if we started to eliminate the
ability for people to participate based on anincome or wealth level, that would be challenging.
And it would make fundraising for entrepreneurseven that much harder. So what we suggested
in one of the, and you can actually see therecommendation that we made on the SEC's website,
(22:22):
but we made a recommendation to say, hey, howabout we don't actually focus so much on income
and wealth and we focus more on education. Andwe'd like to see there be an education component
that would allow for more people to be ableto participate in this asset class. And the
Angel Capital Association has put in And I thinkthere were some others as well who have put
(22:45):
in some proposals to say, hey, we could helpwith this. So that's kind of where we are right
now. Right. And as emeritus chair of the ACA,can you talk about some of the innovations
that have come out recently? You've talked aboutangel funds. I'd like you to talk. You've talked
(23:08):
a little bit now about credit investor and thedefinition of your work at the SEC. But the
recent publication, I'm a member of ACA, attendedthe annual summit this year. I found the work
that you've done on the actual convertible noteform for the angel investment is fascinating.
(23:30):
Can you talk a little bit more about that? Sure.So there are documents that were put out by
the National Venture Capital Association yearsago companies who want to fundraise to use
those documents for a priced round. Of course,that would be for actual equity, you're selling
shares of your company, that kind of thing.And those are great. And very, very helpful
(23:56):
to entrepreneurs, because I think in some cases,it can save them a lot of time and money in
legal costs. However, there wasn't really anythingout there that could be used for convertible
notes. Safes, yes, there is a kind of a standardsafe note that people view and that has also
saved entrepreneurs time and money, but theAngel Capital Association was interested in
(24:19):
putting something out that was like that, butin the convertible note form that was more,
quote unquote standard or something that, atleast a starting point for entrepreneurs so
they didn't have to start from scratch or haveto go to an attorney and have them draw up
all kinds of paperwork. So yeah, and that'savailable on the ACA's website. So this which
(24:41):
gears back to one of your other facets. Youare associate producer of a film called Show
Her the Money. I first heard of it through,I guess meeting in February and the Thai SoCal
chapter on September 19th will be actually screeningthis film. in conjunction with a global competition
(25:13):
for women led company. So I'm, when I, um, learnedthat you would join me as a guest, um, of the
podcast, I was delighted to get kind of a scoopalso about show her the money, how you got
involved as associate producer and what canwe expect? Yeah, it turned out to be a tremendous
(25:35):
film. Catherine Gray and Kai Dickens, who putit all together, Kai Dickens, the director,
it was Catherine Gray's idea, have really donea tremendous job of showcasing through storytelling
the problem and bringing more awareness to thisproblem. So Catherine Gray and I met after
somebody saw my TED Talk and saw hers and said,hey, do you guys know you're talking about
(25:59):
almost exactly the same thing? know each other.And this was at the time right before the film
came out that Katherine was still looking fora few investors. And so I myself and a couple
other angels that I know we, we kind of helpedfill that round up so that she could move the
move the film forward. And we've been on a 50city tour that's now turning into probably
(26:24):
close to 100 cities. Katherine's been such atrooper. She has really gone to a lot. a lot
of the screenings. I've gone to several, butit's a lot to kind of go city to city almost,
I mean, there's nowadays, there's a showingalmost every day in different places around
the country. So there, we try to have at leastsomeone from the film or an associate producer
(26:48):
there at each of the screenings, but it's reallybeen fun to showcase it. We always have a panel
afterward and we get questions from the audience.We let the audience kind of, you know, give
their comments and what they're thinking aboutit. And the, I mean, the feedback has just
been tremendous. And will there be a sequel?That's a good question. There's a lot of talk
(27:11):
about a lot of different types of things, soyou never know. Right, excellent. So you heard
it here on the Founder's Sandbox. Marsha Dawoodis actually. Associate producer of a film,
Show Her the Money. The Thai SoCal chapter willbe screening the film on September 19th at
(27:31):
Noah House here in Hollywood, Los Angeles, sovery exciting. Well, Marcia, I like to have
a part of my podcast where my listeners canlearn about how to contact you. They will be,
you have many touch points, but what would you...suggest as some of the best ways to get in
(27:53):
contact with you? Well, I would just say goto my website, which is simply marshadalwood.com.
You can learn about all kinds of things. I havelots of free resources there. Currently, you
can even download a free chapter of the bookas a preview. Oh, to do that, they can do that.
And of course, I have everything, I linked everythingon there, including the TEDx talk in Charlotte.
(28:18):
I did do a rap battle. I don't Did you do arap battle? I did a rap battle called Angel
Investor versus Venture Capitalist. BecauseI was watching YouTube with my step sons one
day and we saw a rap battle between Snow Whiteand Elsa. I thought, well, that's clever. And
(28:39):
that's a cute way to like kind of get a messageacross. maybe I could do a rap battle about
an angel investor versus a venture capitalistjust so that people would kind of have a better
understanding of what the differences are. Soone day I just sat there, this was before chat
GPT, and kind of wrote it out, you know, likewhat it would be. And, and of course, I'm cracking
(29:04):
myself up the whole time. And because I waslike, Oh, that's funny, you know, how can we
make that, you know, more clever? So anyway,I debuted it at one of the ACA summits a couple
of years ago, but that's all I can say to you.Excellent. So in the show notes, you will have
access to the TED Talk, the order online ofMarsha Doudwood's new book, and you have your
(29:31):
podcast, the Angel Next Door podcast. And whodo you invite there? Well, I saw a need about
three years ago. That's when I started it. thatthere really wasn't anybody talking about how
do you become an angel? Or how would you helpa company with either mentoring or helping
(29:51):
them with investing? There's a lot of podcastsout there about entrepreneurship, lots of things
about pitching, raising money, how did you buildyour business? And they were great, I like
all of them. But I was really seeing a needfor how can we showcase this, an angel. that
can be anybody, it can be your next door neighbor.So that's kind of how the title came about.
(30:13):
And on the podcast, I have people who are angelinvestors who are just telling their story
about why and how they became an angel investor,how they learned about it. But from there,
it's kind of spun into other things. I've hadfour Congress people on talking about small
business in their community and why it's importantand what they're doing in Congress in order
(30:35):
to help to... spur economic development. I'vealso had two of the SEC commissioners on, which
is fun to go through what they're thinking aboutand the changes that could potentially also
help entrepreneurs. And then I've had severalpeople come on who were experts in areas like
(30:56):
equity crowdfunding, debt crowdfunding, revenue-basedfinancing. And then of course, one of the things
that angels always wanna know about are taxbenefits, even though taxes sometimes seems
like a boring topic, taxes are something thateverybody really needs to know about and there
are several tax advantages that angels can partakein, but many are not known. Exactly. Excellent.
(31:23):
So before we finish, I actually go back to thefounder sandbox and kind of the three cornerstones
that I am working on as my mission and buildingresilient, purpose-driven and scalable companies.
So I always like to ask my guests and not oneguest has the same definition or I guess the
(31:48):
meaning to each of these terms. So I'd likeeach of you to tell me what does resilience
mean to you, Marsha? So when I think of resilience,it makes me think of how hard it is for an
entrepreneur to build a company, just anyoneto build a company. So resilience is that tenacity
(32:08):
that you need in order to keep going on thehard days and the days that you just wanna
throw your hands up in the air and say, whyam I doing this? So that is really so important
because building a company is such a... hardwork and it's so much harder than I think anybody
ever realizes when they go into it. And I'vetalked to so many entrepreneurs who've said,
(32:29):
oh my gosh, this is like, this is way, way harderthan I thought it was going to be. But it also
takes a village. So that resiliency needs tohave a community around it. And so that's why
I really am such a proponent of angel investingbecause we really can form that community and
help build the resilience with the entrepreneur.Thank you. Purpose driven. I think you have
(32:52):
a purpose, right? Which is educating on theasset class and how to become an investor.
So what is purpose driven for you? Well, I thinkthat goes back to do good while doing well.
I mean, I wasn't necessarily going to titlemy book that. It was the title of my TEDx talk.
(33:14):
However, I went through... as you do as an author,you go through many, many iterations of what
the title is gonna be, because it's one of themost important things. And I did several focus
groups where I gave people options about titlesand do good while doing well, kept coming back
and people were like, that resonates with me.So then I just think, purpose driven, that's
(33:37):
what people really, that was the thing thatreally, it just stuck with them. And so, I
think aligning your values with your money,with your goals, you know, all of those things
are a great way to be purpose driven. To makea difference. Right. Sustainable growth. What's
(34:00):
the meaning for you sustainable? So sustainablemeans like long term, we need to be able to
do something that's hard and be able to. continueto do it. And if we come up against roadblocks,
how do we pivot? We tell entrepreneurs all thetime, it's okay to pivot. It's okay if you
(34:21):
come up against something in your company andyou're like, wait a minute, this doesn't fit
or it doesn't work and maybe I need to changesomething, that's okay. I mean, everything
that happened in 2020 with COVID. Oh my goodness.Lots of pivoting, right? So to me. sustainable
growth is like, how can we do that? How canwe be in the right mindset so that no matter
(34:46):
what happens, we can keep going and we can keepbuilding what we really wanna see in the world.
Very nice, thank you. Last and final question,Marcia. Did you have fun today in the sandbox?
Oh, love playing in the sandbox. And had I knownthat you were also a rapper, I would have had
a question in there, but thank you for sharingthe fun side. angel investing, right? So to
(35:10):
my listeners, if you like this episode withMarsha Dawood, sign up for the monthly release
of founders, business owners, corporate directors,and professional services go-to podcast to
learn about how to build resilient, purpose-driven,and scalable companies while doing good. Thank
you very much for joining me and Marsha Dawoodsigning off for today. Thank you.
We're standing on the edge of something big.We're going to make some changes. Hi, I'm pleased
to announce something very special to me, anew subscription-based service through Next
(00:25):
Act Advisors that allows members exclusive accessto personal industry insights and bespoke corporate
governance knowledge. This comes in the formof blogs, personal book recommendations, and
early access to the founder's sandbox podcastepisodes before they released to the public.
(00:46):
If you want more white glove information onbuilding your startup with information like
what was in today's episode, sign up with thelink in the show notes to enjoy being a special
member of Next Act Advisors. As a thank youto Founders Sandbox listeners, you can use
code SANDBOX25 at checkout to enjoy 25% offyour membership costs. Thank you.
(01:18):
So welcome back to the Founder's Sandbox. Iam Brenda McCabe, host of this monthly podcast
now in its third season. This monthly podcastthat reaches entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs
and business owners who learn about buildingresilience, scalable and sustainable businesses
with great corporate governance. I want to assistentrepreneurs and entrepreneurs in building
(01:42):
those scalable, well-governed and resilientbusinesses. And by way of inviting guests to
the podcast who are themselves founders, businessowners, corporate directors, investors, and
professional service providers who also sharemy mission, which is using the power of the
(02:03):
private enterprise, be that small meeting atlarge to create change for a better world.
Through storytelling with my guests on topicsthat are going to include resilience, purpose-driven,
and sustainable growth, My goal through thispodcast is to provide a fun sandbox environment
where we can equip one startup founder at atime to build a better world through great
(02:26):
corporate governance. I'm absolutely delightedtoday. My guest is Marsha Dalwood. She's joining
the podcast. She checks a lot of boxes, butshe's today joining as a passionate advocate
for positive change by empowering and educatingeveryone on how to invest. So when I met Marcia
(02:51):
back in February through one of our events withTy So Kow, she had launched or was speaking
about launching her book that's coming out onSeptember 10th, Do Good While Doing Well, Invest
for Change, Reap Financial Rewards, and IncreaseYour Happiness. I couldn't help but ask her
(03:12):
to be a guest because she also has passion ora mission, and that is for positive change.
And one of many things she's done is authoringthis book, which we'll get into a sneak preview
of the contents of this book before its launchon September 10th, 2024.
(03:34):
I like to choose a title with my guests thatare around purpose or sustainability or resilience.
And we chose a title for this episode whichis purpose, do good while doing well. So thank
you today for joining me, Marcia. So happy tohave you here in the Founder Sandbox. Oh, I'm
(03:54):
so happy to be here. Excellent. So, you know,our paths crossed, I mentioned it earlier at
the Thai SoCal chapter, the Indus EntrepreneursSoCal chapter, where you spoke recently on
some of the data coming out the Angel CapitalAssociation, as well as your role with the
(04:18):
SEC. Before I get into my first question, Idid want to give my listeners your entire background,
your biography. It's very impressive and veryextensive. You live your purpose as a multifaceted
professional, your author of the book that Ijust mentioned, Do Good While Doing Well. You
(04:43):
are also a host of a podcast, The Angel NextDoor. You are chair emeritus of Angel Capital
Association, ACA. It's a global professionalsociety for angel investors. And you're on
the board of Stella, a nonprofit that supportsfemale entrepreneurs. You're also a venture
(05:05):
partner at MindShift Capital, and you currentlyserve on the SEC. Securities and Exchange Commission's
Small Business Capital Formation Advisory Committee.So thank you for bringing your expertise here
into this podcast today. Well, thank you forhaving me. So can you share for my listeners
(05:25):
some of the highlights you walked us throughin February while distinguishing the role of
an angel investor, a range of fund groups versusVC? I mean, some of the trends you're seeing
in the markets. Sure. Well, to put it very basically,an angel investor is somebody who writes checks
(05:51):
out of their own checkbook. A venture capitalistwill pool funds from other people, so they're
using other people's money. And therefore, they'reheld to certain standards, and they're held
to certain financial returns that their investorsare expecting. So angels, while we also of
course would love and expect a financial return,we invest in the things that we really care
(06:14):
about and are very passionate about. And wedon't necessarily have the same time horizons
and the same guidelines that venture capitalistsdo, which makes us a little bit more plausible
for being immutable for being able to do certainthings and invest in the way that we want to.
So, Over the last two years, especially maybeeven going on two and a half now, the market
(06:39):
has been very challenging for entrepreneursto fundraise at any stage. The market has been
very challenging for exits and liquidity. Soangel investing or investing in early stage
private companies means that you're investingin a company that is not. publicly traded on
(07:02):
the stock market, like you would see a stocklike Apple or something like that. Got it.
In order for the investor to have any type ofliquidity, there has to be an event. Either
the company is sold, or in rare instances, thecompany would go onto a public stock market,
or an IPO, as we call it. So in those particularinstances, when there is liquidity, then that
(07:29):
money can in a way can oftentimes be put backinto the startup scene, the entrepreneurial
ecosystem, as we call it. And a lot of times,investors will take any money that they do
get as a gain from a previous investment andput it into other startup companies so that
capital can keep flowing. That's kind of thewhole idea behind as people are getting returns.
(07:55):
So that's really the biggest difference betweenan angel investor and a venture capitalist.
But right now it's been challenging for everyonebecause of this lack of liquidity that we've
been seeing in the marketplace for the lasttwo and a half years. Now we do think that
there's been some talk that market is gonnastart to open up a little bit more. We will
(08:15):
see more M&A activity. And if that's the case,then hopefully we will start to see more liquidity
and then there will be more capital for investing.And as an asset class, right? Angel investing.
And with your role as chair emeritus and whileyou were also chair of ACA, what spurred you
(08:38):
to write about angel investing, right? Is thisthe culmination of your years of experience?
Walk my listeners through what made you takethe time to actually write a book, do good
while doing well. Yeah, I think it was out offrustration more than anything. I would talk
(08:59):
to people, even neighbors, friends, people Iwould meet at an event. And I would say, yeah,
I'm an angel investor. I help early stage companies.And they were like, wow, that seems really
interesting. And I would say, well, you couldbe an angel investor too. And they would be
like, me? I could be an angel investor? I thoughtthat was only for the rich and well-connected.
(09:22):
that isn't something I could do. I don't knowanything about that. I don't have a degree
in finance. I don't really think that's forme. So it wasn't that they didn't want to do
it. They really just didn't believe that itwas something that they were able to do in
a way, either from a wealth or income standpointor from a knowledge standpoint. So I thought,
(09:44):
wait a minute, I think there's an awarenessproblem here because we have all these amazing
entrepreneurs. They're building incredible innovationsthat the world needs. But they're really struggling.
I mean, struggling with fundraising. And it'sone of the hardest things that they end up
doing. And it's like a full-time job on topof the full-time job of them trying to build
(10:04):
this company. So wait a minute, how can we fixthis problem? Well, we could fix the problem
if more people got involved and became investors,but that seems daunting. So I thought, well,
how can I help people realize that doesn't reallyhave to be quite so daunting? And you can kind
of nowadays because of a lot of the regulatorychanges that have happened in the last eight
(10:27):
to 10 years, you can maybe step your way intoit and really start to learn with basically
putting less money at risk and you're gainingknowledge at the same time. You can also be
a mentor to startup companies. That's becomevery popular and needed in the last several
years. All of these things that people don'treally know about, that was what I was trying
(10:50):
to do, demystify it. Right. And if you had toprovide a sneak preview on the gut of your
book, what would that be? Set takeaway. Andwho should be your target audience? Is it just
the, is it actually entrepreneurs or is it thosepeople that are just kind of wanting to become
(11:11):
more informed around the asset class? Yeah,great question. So I wrote the book for people
who want to make a difference, but they justdon't know how one person alone can do that.
Okay. I think you feel that charity is a greatway to give back, which of course it is, but
they have no idea that this asset class alsoexists in a way that you can give back and
(11:35):
potentially get a financial return at the sametime. So that's really who I wrote the book
for. As far as a sneak peek as to what's inthe book, it is a Y2 book. about angel investing.
So I saw that there were several books out thereand some of them are really amazing on how
to angel invest. And most, if not all of them,have the words angel investing in the title.
(11:58):
I thought to myself, wait a minute, if somebodyreally wants to learn about this, but they
don't even know that it exists or that it'saccessible to them, why would they ever pick
up a book on how to be an angel investor? Becausethis has never even crossed their radar. So
how can I attract them? to think about thingsin a different way, to think about how they
might use some of their capital in a differentway. And when I say capital, I don't just mean
(12:23):
money. It can be their human capital, theirtime. They could be helping an entrepreneur
through mentorship. How can they start to lookat the resources that they have in order to
help grow innovative companies? How can theythink about that differently so that they will
want to then go and help either people in theirlocal community and in their local area? or
(12:44):
maybe even startups nationwide or globally.I did watch your TEDx talk and I really do
like how you have positioned the asset classor why is angel investing important if you
want to make a difference versus charitablegiving. And in your TEDx talk that will be
(13:08):
in the show notes, you illustrated that extremelywell. That's very unique. Yes, thank you. And
I really want people to donate to charity, helpcharities, that's fantastic. But we've put
such a burden on them and they don't have theresources. They don't have the ability to actually
(13:30):
take some of these innovations forward. We needthose for-profit companies too. And when you
look at the amount of charitable giving thathappens in the U.S. annually, it's about 475.
billion, which is a lot of money. And that'swonderful. But that is equivalent to only about
1% of the value of the US stock market. So whenwe put things into perspective, it's really
(13:54):
not doing any of these nonprofits of good serviceto say that we're going to put the burden all
on you. And what is the size currently of theasset class as angel investing per ACA? Well,
pretty much, if you look at the SEC data, Themost recent data has around $30 billion is
(14:14):
where the angel asset class kind of lands. Andthen from there, we can look at that as far
as there's angel groups, there's angel funds,and then there are individual angels. I tend
to be a pretty big proponent and fan of angelfunds. It allows somebody to put in a certain
(14:36):
amount of money and nowadays it does not haveto be a quarter of a million dollars or any
crazy big amount, they could put in a couplethousand dollars and get access to a diversified
portfolio, which would allow them to spreadtheir risk and not necessarily put all their
eggs in one basket, as you would say. Right,right. Let's kind of switch gears here. While
(15:03):
not entirely leaving your experience behindfrom ACA, you're currently, so you, are you've
had many women leadership roles, right? Now,whether you got there as a woman, I don't believe
so, but what you've had many women leadershiproles, most recent, well, maybe the most, I
(15:25):
think, relevant for this podcast is you arecurrently an advisor to the SEC's... Small
Business Capital Formation Advisory Committee.Now getting there, and it really ties in well
with corporate governance and how to do things,well informed with data so as to provide our
(15:47):
regulatory structures or financial or legalwith guidance and you're representing the small
business world. Are you the only woman on theadvisory committee? Talk to me through some
of the women leadership roles you have had andhow you've obtained them and how you are opening
opportunities for other women leaders. Yeah.So I have been on the investment committee
(16:13):
of several funds. Okay. We were specificallyfocused on helping to get capital to female
founders. If you look at the data over the lastseveral years, although in angel world, it
is improving in the venture capital world. Andwhen you for the bigger dollars that companies
really need to scale. The statistics show it'sbeen, you know, two to 3% of the funding goes
(16:40):
to women and the rest goes to male led companies.So I've really been trying to help change that.
And one of the ways to change that is to getthe check writers or the people making the
decisions about where the money goes to be morediverse. So to me, it was important to serve
on some of these different investment committeesfor various funds, help with angel groups.
(17:03):
member of Golden Seeds, which invests only inwomen-led companies. I'm also a venture partner
for MindShift Capital, where we invest in women-ledcompanies globally. So those were things that
were important to me. At the Angel Capital Association,I also started with a couple of my peers. We
started a group called Growing Women's Capital.It's a peer group within the Angel Capital
(17:26):
Association, where we help bring focus and attentionto the female founders who are fundraising
at the time. And so those were all things thatwere important to me. As far as getting to
be able to participate on the SEC's advisorycommittee, that's been great. And it is an
extremely diverse committee, which I absolutelylove. There's really representation there from
(17:52):
men, women, racial disabilities, I mean, everythingso that every group, I feel has a voice at
the table because we're trying to representsmall businesses across the country. And that
doesn't necessarily always mean startups, startupsare scale businesses that people would want
to invest in. But we also have people on thecommittee who are representing your Main Street
(18:18):
businesses as well, coffee shops, things likethat. Excellent. And the, can you talk a little
bit about Stella? It's also. a nonprofit groupin which you've been involved, I think, since
its inception. I have definitely been a championand a supporter for Stella since its inception.
(18:41):
I've only been on the board for a very shortperiod of time. But the organization is really
wonderful. They have done a lot as far as entrepreneurialeducation for women. They have an archive on
their website of different. different educationalmaterials. They have an accelerator. They're
(19:03):
always promoting ways that more female founderscan get in front of investors. So they're doing
some really good work over there. Can you getinto a bit what is your role on the Small Business
Capital Formation Advisory Committee? How oftendo you guys meet? What is the agenda? And what
(19:24):
is the term? Because this is just one of many.advisory committees under the auspices of the
SEC? I'm just fascinated on what is the actualgovernance around that. Sure. So it's a four-year
term, and I'm one year in as of now. We meetquarterly, usually in person at the offices
(19:46):
in Washington, DC. Sometimes we meet virtually.It just kind of depends on the situation, but
usually we meet in person. Meetings are allrecorded. and broadcast live over the SEC's
website. So anyone who wanted to go back andwatch any of the meetings, or if you wanted
(20:07):
to watch any of the future meetings live, thatis absolutely doable. They're always listed
on sec.gov, the website. So the role is reallyfor us to be able to help the commission get
a better sense of what's happening, kind ofboots on the ground. So each of us has a little
(20:29):
bit of a different angle for how we representsmall businesses. I of course come with the
angel investing lens. There's another personon the committee who has a debt crowdfunding
platform that he founded. And that's a veryinteresting perspective since that's something
that's kind of newer to the state of how entrepreneurscan fundraise. So we're all. trying to have
(20:55):
basically a conversation about some of the challengesthat entrepreneurs face when it comes to fundraising.
And one of the things that we tackled quiteheavily, at least for the first few meetings
that I was involved in was the accredited investordefinition. Got it. As it stands right now,
(21:15):
to be an accredited investor means you haveto have a certain level of wealth or income,
$200,000 by yourself, 300,000 with a partner.or a million dollars in net worth minus your
home. And there was talk or has been talk thatcould be indexed or changed or raised. And
we did some rough calculations at the AngelCapital Association. There were also calculations
(21:37):
done, then I don't remember the exact numbers,but you could go even go back and watch our
meeting on sec.gov and you'd be able to seethat, but it would eliminate. a lot of the
people who were already angel investors. Andwe only have about 300,000 angel investors
in the country. And remember, there's about330 million of us here that live in the US.
(21:59):
So, there's a lot of opportunity, let's justsay that. And if we started to eliminate the
ability for people to participate based on anincome or wealth level, that would be challenging.
And it would make fundraising for entrepreneurseven that much harder. So what we suggested
in one of the, and you can actually see therecommendation that we made on the SEC's website,
(22:22):
but we made a recommendation to say, hey, howabout we don't actually focus so much on income
and wealth and we focus more on education. Andwe'd like to see there be an education component
that would allow for more people to be ableto participate in this asset class. And the
Angel Capital Association has put in And I thinkthere were some others as well who have put
(22:45):
in some proposals to say, hey, we could helpwith this. So that's kind of where we are right
now. Right. And as emeritus chair of the ACA,can you talk about some of the innovations
that have come out recently? You've talked aboutangel funds. I'd like you to talk. You've talked
(23:08):
a little bit now about credit investor and thedefinition of your work at the SEC. But the
recent publication, I'm a member of ACA, attendedthe annual summit this year. I found the work
that you've done on the actual convertible noteform for the angel investment is fascinating.
(23:30):
Can you talk a little bit more about that? Sure.So there are documents that were put out by
the National Venture Capital Association yearsago companies who want to fundraise to use
those documents for a priced round. Of course,that would be for actual equity, you're selling
shares of your company, that kind of thing.And those are great. And very, very helpful
(23:56):
to entrepreneurs, because I think in some cases,it can save them a lot of time and money in
legal costs. However, there wasn't really anythingout there that could be used for convertible
notes. Safes, yes, there is a kind of a standardsafe note that people view and that has also
saved entrepreneurs time and money, but theAngel Capital Association was interested in
(24:19):
putting something out that was like that, butin the convertible note form that was more,
quote unquote standard or something that, atleast a starting point for entrepreneurs so
they didn't have to start from scratch or haveto go to an attorney and have them draw up
all kinds of paperwork. So yeah, and that'savailable on the ACA's website. So this which
(24:41):
gears back to one of your other facets. Youare associate producer of a film called Show
Her the Money. I first heard of it through,I guess meeting in February and the Thai SoCal
chapter on September 19th will be actually screeningthis film. in conjunction with a global competition
(25:13):
for women led company. So I'm, when I, um, learnedthat you would join me as a guest, um, of the
podcast, I was delighted to get kind of a scoopalso about show her the money, how you got
involved as associate producer and what canwe expect? Yeah, it turned out to be a tremendous
(25:35):
film. Catherine Gray and Kai Dickens, who putit all together, Kai Dickens, the director,
it was Catherine Gray's idea, have really donea tremendous job of showcasing through storytelling
the problem and bringing more awareness to thisproblem. So Catherine Gray and I met after
somebody saw my TED Talk and saw hers and said,hey, do you guys know you're talking about
(25:59):
almost exactly the same thing? know each other.And this was at the time right before the film
came out that Katherine was still looking fora few investors. And so I myself and a couple
other angels that I know we, we kind of helpedfill that round up so that she could move the
move the film forward. And we've been on a 50city tour that's now turning into probably
(26:24):
close to 100 cities. Katherine's been such atrooper. She has really gone to a lot. a lot
of the screenings. I've gone to several, butit's a lot to kind of go city to city almost,
I mean, there's nowadays, there's a showingalmost every day in different places around
the country. So there, we try to have at leastsomeone from the film or an associate producer
(26:48):
there at each of the screenings, but it's reallybeen fun to showcase it. We always have a panel
afterward and we get questions from the audience.We let the audience kind of, you know, give
their comments and what they're thinking aboutit. And the, I mean, the feedback has just
been tremendous. And will there be a sequel?That's a good question. There's a lot of talk
(27:11):
about a lot of different types of things, soyou never know. Right, excellent. So you heard
it here on the Founder's Sandbox. Marsha Dawoodis actually. Associate producer of a film,
Show Her the Money. The Thai SoCal chapter willbe screening the film on September 19th at
(27:31):
Noah House here in Hollywood, Los Angeles, sovery exciting. Well, Marcia, I like to have
a part of my podcast where my listeners canlearn about how to contact you. They will be,
you have many touch points, but what would you...suggest as some of the best ways to get in
(27:53):
contact with you? Well, I would just say goto my website, which is simply marshadalwood.com.
You can learn about all kinds of things. I havelots of free resources there. Currently, you
can even download a free chapter of the bookas a preview. Oh, to do that, they can do that.
And of course, I have everything, I linked everythingon there, including the TEDx talk in Charlotte.
(28:18):
I did do a rap battle. I don't Did you do arap battle? I did a rap battle called Angel
Investor versus Venture Capitalist. BecauseI was watching YouTube with my step sons one
day and we saw a rap battle between Snow Whiteand Elsa. I thought, well, that's clever. And
(28:39):
that's a cute way to like kind of get a messageacross. maybe I could do a rap battle about
an angel investor versus a venture capitalistjust so that people would kind of have a better
understanding of what the differences are. Soone day I just sat there, this was before chat
GPT, and kind of wrote it out, you know, likewhat it would be. And, and of course, I'm cracking
(29:04):
myself up the whole time. And because I waslike, Oh, that's funny, you know, how can we
make that, you know, more clever? So anyway,I debuted it at one of the ACA summits a couple
of years ago, but that's all I can say to you.Excellent. So in the show notes, you will have
access to the TED Talk, the order online ofMarsha Doudwood's new book, and you have your
(29:31):
podcast, the Angel Next Door podcast. And whodo you invite there? Well, I saw a need about
three years ago. That's when I started it. thatthere really wasn't anybody talking about how
do you become an angel? Or how would you helpa company with either mentoring or helping
(29:51):
them with investing? There's a lot of podcastsout there about entrepreneurship, lots of things
about pitching, raising money, how did you buildyour business? And they were great, I like
all of them. But I was really seeing a needfor how can we showcase this, an angel. that
can be anybody, it can be your next door neighbor.So that's kind of how the title came about.
(30:13):
And on the podcast, I have people who are angelinvestors who are just telling their story
about why and how they became an angel investor,how they learned about it. But from there,
it's kind of spun into other things. I've hadfour Congress people on talking about small
business in their community and why it's importantand what they're doing in Congress in order
(30:35):
to help to... spur economic development. I'vealso had two of the SEC commissioners on, which
is fun to go through what they're thinking aboutand the changes that could potentially also
help entrepreneurs. And then I've had severalpeople come on who were experts in areas like
(30:56):
equity crowdfunding, debt crowdfunding, revenue-basedfinancing. And then of course, one of the things
that angels always wanna know about are taxbenefits, even though taxes sometimes seems
like a boring topic, taxes are something thateverybody really needs to know about and there
are several tax advantages that angels can partakein, but many are not known. Exactly. Excellent.
(31:23):
So before we finish, I actually go back to thefounder sandbox and kind of the three cornerstones
that I am working on as my mission and buildingresilient, purpose-driven and scalable companies.
So I always like to ask my guests and not oneguest has the same definition or I guess the
(31:48):
meaning to each of these terms. So I'd likeeach of you to tell me what does resilience
mean to you, Marsha? So when I think of resilience,it makes me think of how hard it is for an
entrepreneur to build a company, just anyoneto build a company. So resilience is that tenacity
(32:08):
that you need in order to keep going on thehard days and the days that you just wanna
throw your hands up in the air and say, whyam I doing this? So that is really so important
because building a company is such a... hardwork and it's so much harder than I think anybody
ever realizes when they go into it. And I'vetalked to so many entrepreneurs who've said,
(32:29):
oh my gosh, this is like, this is way, way harderthan I thought it was going to be. But it also
takes a village. So that resiliency needs tohave a community around it. And so that's why
I really am such a proponent of angel investingbecause we really can form that community and
help build the resilience with the entrepreneur.Thank you. Purpose driven. I think you have
(32:52):
a purpose, right? Which is educating on theasset class and how to become an investor.
So what is purpose driven for you? Well, I thinkthat goes back to do good while doing well.
I mean, I wasn't necessarily going to titlemy book that. It was the title of my TEDx talk.
(33:14):
However, I went through... as you do as an author,you go through many, many iterations of what
the title is gonna be, because it's one of themost important things. And I did several focus
groups where I gave people options about titlesand do good while doing well, kept coming back
and people were like, that resonates with me.So then I just think, purpose driven, that's
(33:37):
what people really, that was the thing thatreally, it just stuck with them. And so, I
think aligning your values with your money,with your goals, you know, all of those things
are a great way to be purpose driven. To makea difference. Right. Sustainable growth. What's
(34:00):
the meaning for you sustainable? So sustainablemeans like long term, we need to be able to
do something that's hard and be able to. continueto do it. And if we come up against roadblocks,
how do we pivot? We tell entrepreneurs all thetime, it's okay to pivot. It's okay if you
(34:21):
come up against something in your company andyou're like, wait a minute, this doesn't fit
or it doesn't work and maybe I need to changesomething, that's okay. I mean, everything
that happened in 2020 with COVID. Oh my goodness.Lots of pivoting, right? So to me. sustainable
growth is like, how can we do that? How canwe be in the right mindset so that no matter
(34:46):
what happens, we can keep going and we can keepbuilding what we really wanna see in the world.
Very nice, thank you. Last and final question,Marcia. Did you have fun today in the sandbox?
Oh, love playing in the sandbox. And had I knownthat you were also a rapper, I would have had
a question in there, but thank you for sharingthe fun side. angel investing, right? So to
(35:10):
my listeners, if you like this episode withMarsha Dawood, sign up for the monthly release
of founders, business owners, corporate directors,and professional services go-to podcast to
learn about how to build resilient, purpose-driven,and scalable companies while doing good. Thank
you very much for joining me and Marsha Dawoodsigning off for today. Thank you.
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