March 13, 2025 • 36 mins
On this episode of The Founder's Sandbox, Brenda speaks with Shivani Honwad – founder of her own law firm, who specializes in immigration and business law for the creative industries. Shivani is a business and immigration lawyer, and trailblazer in supporting the Freelance and Free Act, as well as a professor at NYU LA campus teaching Entrepreneurship for creatives.
“I could not keep hearing it and not do anything about it” Shivani says, speaking about immigration as a major issue for freelance fashion workers. Shivani set out to get smarter. Ten 10 years later, The Law Firm of Shivani Honwad, LLC, focuses primarily on immigration and business law for companies in the fashion, tech, beauty and entertainment realms.
You can find out more about Shivani at:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/shivani-honwad-
Find some of my guest’s content here :
Laws “the freelance and free act”
https://www.nyc.gov/site/dca/about/freelance-isnt-free-act.page
Transcript:
00:04
Hi, I'm pleased to announce something very special to me, a new subscription-based service through Next Act Advisors that allows members exclusive access to personal industry insights and bespoke
00:32
corporate governance knowledge. This comes in the form of blogs, personal book recommendations, and early access to the founder's sandbox podcast episodes before they released to the public. If you want more white glove information on building your startup with information like what was in today's episode, sign up with the link in the show notes to enjoy being a special member of Next Act Advisors.
01:01
As a thank you to Founders Sandbox listeners, you can use code SANDBOX25 at checkout to enjoy 25% off your membership costs. Thank you.
01:18
Welcome back to the Founder's Sandbox. I am Brenda McCabe, your host. This is a monthly podcast in which I reach entrepreneurs, business owners, who are going to learn about building resilient, purpose-driven, and sustainable businesses with great corporate governance.
01:38
I like to assist the entrepreneurs in building these scalable, well-governed and resilient business. And what I do with my guests is they tell their origin story about how they've built their own practices. And we'll get to the origin story of my guest this month, Shivani Honwad. Shivani and I have known each other for many years. She was bi-coastal in New York and Los Angeles. We met actually in the Los Angeles.
02:06
Los Angeles Venture Association, LAVA. It has a women affinity group. And she was eagerly contributing to some of the material and programs that we put on for women business owners, actually startups in the LA ecosystem. So I wanna thank you Shivani for joining me this month and the founder Sandbox. Thank you, Brenda. Thank you. So.
02:35
You own your own law firm, the law firm of Shivani Honwad. And it was originally based in New York. I don't know whether you operate nationally, but I'd love you to kind of repeat your origin story when I met you the first time in one of th
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
We're standing on the edge of something big.We're going to make some changes. Hi, I'm pleased
to announce something very special to me, anew subscription-based service through Next
(00:25):
Act Advisors that allows members exclusive accessto personal industry insights and bespoke corporate
governance knowledge. This comes in the formof blogs, personal book recommendations, and
early access to the founder's sandbox podcastepisodes before they released to the public.
(00:46):
If you want more white glove information onbuilding your startup with information like
what was in today's episode, sign up with thelink in the show notes to enjoy being a special
member of Next Act Advisors. As a thank youto Founders Sandbox listeners, you can use
code SANDBOX25 at checkout to enjoy 25% offyour membership costs. Thank you.
(01:18):
Welcome back to the Founder's Sandbox. I amBrenda McCabe, your host. This is a monthly
podcast in which I reach entrepreneurs, businessowners, who are going to learn about building
resilient, purpose-driven, and sustainable businesseswith great corporate governance. I like to
(01:39):
assist the entrepreneurs in building these scalable,well-governed and resilient business. And what
I do with my guests is they tell their originstory about how they've built their own practices.
And we'll get to the origin story of my guestthis month, Shivani Hanwat. Shivani and I have
known each other for many years. She was bi-coastalin New York and Los Angeles. We met actually
(02:05):
in the Los Angeles. Los Angeles Venture Association,LAVA. It has a women affinity group. And she
was eagerly contributing to some of the materialand programs that we put on for women business
owners, actually startups in the LA ecosystem.So I wanna thank you Shivani for joining me
(02:29):
this month and the founder Sandbox. Thank you,Brenda. Thank you. So. You own your own law
firm, the law firm of Shivani Hanwat. And itwas originally based in New York. I don't know
whether you operate nationally, but I'd loveyou to kind of repeat your origin story when
(02:52):
I met you the first time in one of the womenin lava. It was a small gathering. And it struck
me your story was fascinating, because you wereworking for a law firm in New York, but it
was in your social life. You were, you know,out for drinks in the evenings and you would
(03:13):
often be approached by women who were in thefashion industry, so models, and inevitably
over a drink or maybe not a drink, they wouldend up using some of your free services. What
was that? What were they asking your adviceon, Shivani? And with that, we're going to
get started on your origin story. Thank you.Yeah, sure. So, you know, I was in my twenties
(03:36):
in New York City and as one does in New YorkCity, I would often go out. So I, at the time,
was working in criminal law with a firm andcivil litigation. But so I would go out with
my friends. You know, I went to NYU, so I hada lot of friends in the city. And, you know,
these models kept approaching me and they werelike, hey, I heard you're a lawyer. I need
(03:59):
help. And I was like, oh, did you get arrestedor did something happen like that? And they
were like, no. And I kept hearing stories ofhow they were working for these modeling agencies.
Most of the people that approached me were internationalmodels and their passports or their visas or
something like their paperwork was being withheldso that they didn't really have freedom to
(04:20):
travel and then not only that, they wouldn'tbe paid out. So. they would model for days,
weeks, sometimes months at a time, and be paid$0. And the agencies were just, there was just
a lot of abuse in the industry. And so theykept asking for help. And at the time, I didn't
really understand enough about the industryto know how pervasive this was. But I started
(04:45):
looking into it because it wasn't just one modelapproaching me. It was like dozens of models
over the course of a few weeks, if not maybea few months. that kept asking me for help.
And it got to a point. I imagine your name gotaround, right? Well, because I wasn't doing
anything yet. It was just that I was the onlylawyer at all of these events, right? And I
(05:07):
mean, this is also pre-Me too. So the otherpart of it was, is the lawyers they were going
to, some of the male lawyers unfortunately,were also taking advantage of them and being
like, hey, I'll help you, but you have to bemy date to this event like Saturday night.
So they would see me in my 20s and a woman andwoman of color, and they would just be like,
(05:27):
oh, OK, so she won't sexually harass me or shewon't threaten me in any way. So I think I
was seen as a safer space for that. So I thinkthat's why people approach me at parties. And
then it got to a point where I just I couldn'treally keep hearing it and not do anything
about it. And so I did some research into it.And then I found lawyers. I knew some in my
(05:50):
network that knew how to help them. And thebiggest issue, it seemed, was the immigration
part, where it was like, if models come intothe US under what's called an O-1 visa, and
typically it's tied to whoever their agent oremployer is if they come in under that route.
But if they do it, there's other ways they cando it to have a little more freedom, or they
(06:11):
can get their green cards so they have freedom.And that's the EB1A route. And so I figured
out an attorney who did that and he had agreedto like train me in how to do that. So eventually
like I started my own law firm focusing on that.And it was just to help these models get some
freedom. And then, you know, I expanded fromthere to doing some IP and contracts because
(06:34):
once I helped them and get got them more stable,they were like, okay, well now I'm doing these
ventures and I want you to negotiate these contractsand I want you to be my lawyer for this. Like
you were great. So that's how my law firm kindof came to be. And it was just 10 years actually,
since I've opened it this past August. Oh mygoodness. Yeah. It was just, it started out
at this crazy need of just people needing helpand to be in a safe space. And the irony of
(06:58):
it is that I originally went to law school tokind of work on human trafficking issues. Oh
my goodness. And I never thought I would seeit. Like I never thought I'd work in fashion,
but I mean, the work I was doing was tied tothat because a lot of the models were essentially
held in debt bondage. of being tied to theseagencies not being paid out and saying like,
(07:19):
you owe us this much money so we're not gonnapay you or what have you. So I think that's
how it's still, I got to do what I went to lawschool for, but in a different way than I had
initially thought. Like I thought I would workfor the UN or something like, but it was so
hard to get into the UN. I applied nonstop originally,but like I got to do this. And like we changed
(07:39):
some laws around in this space. Like, The BostonGlobe did like the Spotlight team did a piece
on this and like some of my clients that I wasalso interviewed for. And then, you know, we
met with officials in city hall. And so thefreelances and free act, which got passed in
New York also applies to models. So if an agency,you know, gets payment from a client to the
(08:04):
agency and they don't pay the model within 30days, the state of New York will actually fine
the agency. So the models now have recourseto collect payment faster. Excellent. So I
would ask you later to give me this law, andwe'll put it in the show notes. Because this
is amazing. You have been a trailblazer in aserendipitous way. You started out, or while
(08:30):
you're studying law, you thought you would workin sexual traffic, and you did not, or human
trafficking. And you were doing criminal law.ended up actually representing fashion models,
immigration issues, as well as eventually venturinginto assisting them in their contract management
(08:53):
and IP. So amazing story. And I loved one thingthat you did say. You said, I couldn't not
do anything, right? I researched it and I justcould not just let this go. So. Very, very
resilient, Shivani. How did that experienceor others inform you to actually move all the
(09:18):
way out here to Los Angeles and set up practice?And tell us a little bit about that. So I don't
think you and I have actually talked about thisbefore. But originally, what brought me out
to LA was some of the work that I did here forthe models. I was recruited by some organizations
in the e-sports area. Um, you know, e-sportsis actually pretty big out here in California.
(09:43):
And, um, there was some e-sports organizationsthat wanted me to help implement essentially
policies and basic human rights for the gamers,because, um, kind of what we had done for the
models in New York, um, there was really noregulations a couple of years ago. It's still
pretty bare minimum, but. for the e-sports gamers.And you have all these essentially mostly teenage
(10:07):
boys, there are female gamers as well, but inthe e-sports tournaments, and they were just
taking a ton of speed or drinking nonstop MonsterEnergy drinks, and they were just dying, quite
frankly, they were under all this pressure toperform. And again, there was really no regulation
around it. And their contracts were devoid oflike... just basic human rights of like, okay,
(10:30):
you can get a bathroom break, you get time toeat, you get time to sleep. So originally I
was recruited out here to kind of work on thoseissues. And I will say, if you've never been
to an e-sports tournament and like in a stadium,I advise going, it's an experience. Wow. This
is like a trillion dollar industry and it liketraverses all socioeconomic, like really like
(10:56):
it. It just transcends all lines. It's justan incredible scene to experience, just the
fandom of it all. So I was in that space fora little bit originally and it just, it was
a very chaotic environment that I just didn'treally want to be in anymore. Right. And then,
(11:21):
yeah, I just- And you were doing this from fromyour own practice? At that time, you'd set
up your practice, so you just recently celebrated10 years of your law firm, Shivani Hanwad.
Yeah. You were actually serving the e-sportsfrom your law firm. Yeah, so I was doing some
(11:43):
contract stuff. I was doing visas for the gamers,things like that. So I was getting more familiar
with it. But it was because the issues paralleled.basically what was happening with models in
New York with the sports gamers in California.So that's kind of how the whole thing started.
And then, like I said, it wasn't really forme, but then I had made some inroads here.
(12:06):
I got connected to Lava and some other organizations.And then I got offered the position to teach
at NYU's LA campus. So that's kind of anchoredme here in Los Angeles now. But yeah, so I
still do kind of the same stuff and I work.you know, same. The thing with immigration
(12:26):
law is it's federal. So my clients are all overthe world and a lot of my clients also in the
fashion, creative industries, their contractsare mostly like for New York and California
based things. And like I'm admitted to practicelaw in both New York and California. So they
just email me, like we do Zooms or, you know,calls and stuff and go through stuff. So yeah,
I serve clients all over the world basically.
(12:51):
position you have with New York Stern's LA campus?It's not Stern. So it's New York University.
Okay. I went to Stern undergrad. Yes. And then,but New York University's Los Angeles campus
is just a general campus. It's not a specificschool. Okay. So we serve students from all
(13:11):
schools. And actually we have multiple globalcampuses. So we have two other degree granting
campuses. One is NYU Abu Dhabi. and one is NYUShanghai. So this is what come to our LA program.
It's an undergrad study abroad only program.So it's one semester and they come mainly from
(13:32):
our New York campus. Some are, we also do havea lot of students that come from our Abu Dhabi
campus and our Shanghai campus. And then theymight be as part of other programs too. And
so they come out here, they spend a semester,they, we work on getting them internships.
And they just kind of see, like most of themwant to go into the entertainment industries
in, you know, whether it's media, like screenwriting,directing, producing, or music. So they're
(13:58):
just trying to see if they like the LA environment,make some inroads for if they want to like
pursue their career in LA or New York or what'sbetter for them. So that's the program that
we have out here right now. And like we're growingactively because the campus opened in fall
of 2019. closed promptly in spring of 2020.And then just reopened fully again last year.
(14:21):
All right. And do you teach a specific subject?Well, yeah. So the course that I teach, it's
basically structured around like entrepreneurshipor creatives. So I bring in kind of my business
and my legal backgrounds. My, the director ofthe NYU LA program is amazing. And she gave
(14:41):
me carte blanche to kind of design a course.She was like, think of them as your future
clients. What do you wish they knew? So that'skind of what we designed. So we like include
like how to pitch, how to develop a deck andthen how to pitch that deck. I also do a negotiation
simulation because oftentimes these studentshave never like negotiated a deal before. So
(15:03):
I go over, you know, what are basic deal termsthat you should at least understand and if
nothing else have these in a contract. And thenI design a whole simulation and like put them
in groups. and give them mock contracts andthey have to negotiate it out. And it's really
fun because every single time we do it, theyall start with the same contract, the same
(15:23):
roles, and everything. And then they all presentat the end of class what their deal terms were.
And no group has ever had the same deal terms.And the reason for that is because it's also
to show them that you all come in with yourown biases and preferences and experiences
and values. Yes. It doesn't really matter whatthe other people are doing. It's just like,
(15:45):
what makes sense to you? What do you feel comfortablewith? Because if you feel comfortable with
the deal and you're okay performing for thisrate or with these terms or whatever, then
you're going to be fine. And so, because thenI always ask them, did you want someone else's
deal? And they might say that they wanted partsof it. They're like, oh, I didn't know I could
add that. Sometimes if we're doing an artistcontract negotiation, my female students will
(16:11):
always be like, they'll add in hair and makeupbudget. And then the male students didn't know
like, oh, that's a thing or like, how much ishair and mica? And like women know that it
should be expensive. So they're like, oh, Icould do that. So like, it's things like that
come up cause I'm like, you can add in, if it'snot written there, you can add stuff in. Like
(16:32):
I give you flexibility. And they're like, okay,I'll think about that next time. But because
they negotiated out, they felt heard. So they'recomfortable with the deal that they agreed
to because they felt like they were heard, theyfelt valued. And so they were fine with their
deal overall. So again, although they may havepicked up some things that they would like
(16:54):
for next time, no one's really been outrightlike, my deal was terrible. Like everyone's
kind of felt like kind of comfortable becausethey get time to talk it through. And I think
that's like the biggest takeaway is like, aslong as like the other side feels heard, you
can agree to a situation where all parties kindof essentially win and can work together well.
(17:16):
And thank you, this is fascinating. So you havean entrepreneurship program at the New York
University's Los Angeles campus. There's anothercampus in Abu Dhabi and Shanghai. And so it's
a year abroad. So is it cross-cultural mix andwhat students? Yes, but. Sorry, I'm just gonna
(17:39):
clarify. So it's not a year abroad for Abu Dhabiand Shanghai. They're actually degree granting
campuses. Okay. So the Abu Dhabi campus is actuallya really incredible program. It's a four year
program. Okay. And it only has like a 2% admissionrate cause tuition is free at that campus.
So they're completely separate programs butthey're all under the NYU umbrella. But I'm
(18:00):
just saying that students come to our LA campusfor a semester. It's a semester, right? Yeah,
for a semester just to kind of do a semesterabroad essentially. And how many entrepreneurs
have gone through your program? So, okay, solet me also clarify, sorry. I teach the Entrepreneurship
for Creatives course, but like our entire curriculumhere is centered around the entertainment industry.
(18:25):
So there's a movie marketing class, there'sa screenwriting class, there's pitching your
project class, there's a history of film class.So it's all centered around entertainment.
There's music courses, there's stuff like that.The entrepreneur part is just kind of what
I do because like, that's my background. Andalso like if you're a creative, you are an
(18:46):
entrepreneur in the industry, like you are yourbrand. So mine's the only one, my course is
the only one focused on that. So it's not thatwe have entrepreneurs here. They all want to
be in the entertainment industry, but it's partof being in the entertainment industry, you
are an entrepreneur. So just to clarify thata little bit, that it's not a separate program.
Excellent. And thank you for that, you know,clarifying. And I would like you to speak about
(19:13):
your own new venture. So not only do you haveyour own law practice, you have recently started
an initiative that is the South Asian CreatorCollective. Tell us a little bit more about
this. Yeah, so we launched that out of the NYULA campus. Okay. Because I just found out like
(19:36):
that my South Asian students They, you know,we have only a few, usually every semester,
but they just didn't have the community thatsome of the other creative communities had
because typically South Asian families, yourparents want you to be a doctor or an engineer
and not really like, okay, you can have a musichobby or be a dancer as a hobby, but not have
(19:58):
that as a career. So there was a lot of lackof support. And then I represent some South
Asian artists. whether they're writers or dancersor creators, producers, things like that in
New York and LA. And so they also obviouslywould say the same thing. So I kind of wanted
to bring everyone together to not only createa community for like my clients, my friends
(20:20):
who are in the industry, but also to help buildthat bridge for my South Asian students to
have like, you know, mentors in the industry.So we had our first meeting earlier this, a
couple of months ago. What came out of thatwas really cool that I brought together my
friends and clients. They've already startedcollabing together on stuff. And then Brenda
through you and Ty, I met people who are possiblyinterested in investing in South Asian creators
(20:45):
projects. So we're looking at doing a possiblepitch event in the spring to have our creators
pitch projects and then to have investors possiblyinvest in them. So I like the idea of just
bringing people together to kind of create thiscommunity and to help each other kind of, you
know, use everyone's skill sets just to createa better whole together. I love it. And I was
(21:11):
absolutely thrilled that you were at the ThaiSo Cal's recent event with the preview and
a screening of Show Her the Money, as well aswe had our final. competition for five women-owned
businesses. So thank you for joining us there.We did that at the Noah House in Hollywood,
of which I'm a member, and look forward to hearingmore about the PitchFest that is probably gonna
(21:37):
be in the spring of next year. Hopefully. Noah'scrazy though about that, show her the money
screening. I didn't realize how many peopleI knew in the film. Like I knew... Liz, like
from this organization that we were part ofin New York, Dreamers and Doors, were like
mainly female entrepreneurs. Like I knew herwhen she was starting Sogal. And so it was
(21:59):
so crazy to see how far they've come. And thenlike I knew so many other people in the film.
And I was like, wait, I knew them back then.I didn't know they were in this film. And like
Naseem was in there. Like there was just somany people that I was saw in the film that
I was like, wait, I know these people personally.So it was just a really cool screening to see.
And to see so many. people that I've known overthe years, just in how far they've come over
(22:21):
the years too. Was really cool. Yeah, initiallyit's a movement now. So initially Show Her
the Money was gonna be shown in 50 US cities.It's gone viral. I think we're up in to the
200s and yeah, it's a movement. So thank youfor being, and it's a small world, right? Oh,
completely. We all end up, yes, there are noborders. So yeah, thank you. And I look forward
(22:46):
to that launch and I would be happy to promoteit here in the founder sandbox as well as on
my YouTube channel. You know, this switch gears.I want to I initially I've known you for years,
but I really wanted you to come on to the foundersandbox because not only your story of not
(23:07):
resiliency, but to the move across from thefrom LA to from New York to LA. But you're
passionate clearly about resilience. And I amalso passionate. And it's the type of work
I do with founders as they're scaling theirbusinesses just working on this resiliency,
(23:28):
I say muscles. You recently hosted during LA'stech week, about two weeks back, a session
on resiliency. Tell us a little bit about itand why you wanted to spearhead that. Um, so
I did my first LA tech week event last year,and that was a great learning experience. We
(23:49):
did it all about pivoting and we had like 400RSVPs for like 75 spots because I did at NYU's
LA campus and we're small. So we had a firemartial capacity of 75. So it was just like
overwhelming. But the original reason I launchedthat event was because Um, when I looked at
(24:10):
the original LA tech week calendar, all I sawwere men on that calendar. And I only, if I
saw a panel with a woman, it was like one womanand like five men. And I was like, I have so
many incredible friends and clients that arewomen doing incredible things in the tech space
and they never get the platform to talk aboutthis. So I wanted a female forward event. Um,
(24:34):
so I did that one and then that one went reallywell. So then everyone was like, Okay, what
are you doing for tech week this year? So that'show I was like, okay, so everyone really liked
the pivoting one because they said they learnedsomething from it and it was something everyone
could relate to. So then, you know, as we'recoming out of COVID, a lot of people have felt
burnout and have felt the need to kind of justlike reinvent themselves or just kind of rise
(24:58):
from the ashes to a degree. So then this year'stheme, I was like, I feel like I wanna do something
around resilience. because it's about like weatheringthe storm and coming out and like, you know,
thriving again. And so again, I did it femaleforward. But what was really incredible is
a lot of my male clients and friends also cameand like others that I didn't know. And like
(25:21):
all of them just like loved the event. And they'relike, this has been the most informative event
I've ever been to. And I said that at the beginningof my event, I was like, you know, this is
like, yes, I, you know, my panel is all women,but we can't change the ratio of where only
2% of women receive VC funding if we don't havemen in the room, because you need everyone
(25:42):
at the table to help change that statistic.And so by sharing the stories of like, again,
they were my clients and friends, but they allrun like incredible organizations. Like Steph
Rizal was one of our speakers. She's an incrediblesinger songwriter. She just wrote a book for
creatives and self-care. I had Jazzy Collins,who's the first black person to win an Emmy
(26:04):
for casting. And she has a production housecalled Force Perspective. I had Mickey Reynolds,
who used to be the CEO, co-founder of Grid 110,and is now head of programs at Slosnikov, a
VC fund. And then I had May Muna, who is amazing.She's a refugee. And she started two organizations,
one called the Tia Foundation to help refugeesin the US. And then she started this... restaurant
(26:29):
called Flavors From Afar where refugee chefsessentially have their menus every month featured
at the restaurant. So like I got to featurethese incredible stories and founders and you
know, just how they like, May Muna, her FlavorsFrom Afar restaurant is now Michelin like rated,
but she was fired from a Carl's Jr. That's likeher story. She's like, yeah, I was fired from
(26:52):
Carl's Jr. and now I have a Michelin restaurant.So where you start and kind of what happens,
it's like you just have to keep going. And allof them kind of had stories like that of being
like, you know, dismissed somewhere early intheir career and just like, keep like, just
keep going. And like, Jazzy too, like, you know,she was just like dismissed for being usually
the only black female in any room. And now she'sthe first black person to win an Emmy earlier
(27:15):
this year. And it's just like how, you know,yes, in casting, sorry. But yeah, and how that
like just those stories of how that rises. AndI think a lot of people learn from that because
a lot of them were just like, you just haveto keep trying, or you just have to try something.
And if it doesn't work, you know, go a differentdirection, but fail faster was kind of the
(27:36):
message that they were putting out there thatlike you'll still figure it out and you just
have to like have a really supportive communityaround you. And as long as you have that, like
you can just like find the strength to keepgoing. Tudos to you. This is a podcast that
is absolutely filled with lots of nuggets, yourown story in New York, coming out to LA, you're
(28:02):
teaching your own entrepreneurship journey andyour passion with respect to the underrepresented,
right? And actually putting on events. and FemaleForward as well as last year in pivoting is
thank you for being part of the ecosystem herein Los Angeles and next year I wonder what
(28:27):
you're going to do in LA Tech Week. I know thisweek was pretty burned out still so we'll see.
We have time. So you know I'd like to give youthe opportunity to provide how my listeners
can contact you or how's it best to contactyou. Um, yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram.
(28:49):
My Instagram is just my name, Shivani Hanwad.Um, my email is just shivani at shivanilaw.com.
So I guess any of those are kind of the bestways to find me or connect with me. Okay, and
we're going to shift gears back to this sandbox.You are a guest here to the founder sandbox.
And again, my mission is to build resilient,scalable, and purpose-driven companies. So
(29:16):
I always like to ask each of my guests whatthe word means, resilience, purpose-driven,
and scalable, sustainable businesses. Each ofmy guests has a different meaning. And it's
actually one of the highlights of my podcastfor me. Okay, so am I doing all three? Yes,
(29:37):
you will. Okay. You already talked a littlebit about resilience, but what does it mean
to you? What does resilience mean to you? ShivaniHa. I think resilience just means to me, it's
just like to persevere, to keep going. And Ithink all of us have our own challenges, obstacles
and hardships. And I think finding the strengthto just kind of get through those. Because
(30:00):
you don't always get over everything that youkind of maybe get through in your life, but
getting through it is, I guess, the way to lookat it in my mind. And then just kind of still
making stuff happen, even if it's hard, is theway I look at resilience. To persevere, still
making it happen. Thank you. Purpose-driven.You're very purpose-driven. How many back?
(30:26):
If we were to scale you. Well, purpose-driven,I just find it like, you know, just quick tangent,
but like what originally drew me into law schooland like wanting to work in the human trafficking
space was like, you know, I was caught in thesemonsoon floods in India when I was working
in Bollywood. And I learned about human traffickingand that's kind of what I wanted to work on.
(30:48):
And I have worked on it in different ways, like,you know, changing that law in Delaware and
then my work on the TVPGA as part of the NewYork State Trafficking Coalition. So I have
worked on that. And I just think that's alwaysbeen kind of my, I guess, anchor point in a
way of like a lot of the work or the pro bonowork even that I do through my law firm. And
(31:11):
part of why I've kept my law firm is becausenow no one tells me how I get to spend my time
or money. I wanna work on representing childrenthat have been trafficked and do those cases
pro bono. I can do that. No one's like, no,you need more billable hours. Like it's up
to me. So I have a couple of nonprofits thatI work with that I represent kids that have
been trafficked to get them either status hereor just like to a safer spot. And I really
(31:36):
love that work. So the work I do with the creativesand everything, it kind of funds and provides
me the ability to do this other work. So I thinkpurpose-driven is just like figuring out what
it is that you're passionate about and whatyour anchor point is. Like, why are you doing
this? Like, what is it that's getting you throughand what gets you out of bed? Like I get really
excited to like work on my clients' cases becauseI think they're doing really incredible things.
(32:00):
Yes. So I think purpose-driven is just likethat, like finding what you're passionate about
and like how you can have a positive impactin the community. I have goosebumps. I had,
you went off on a little tangent. That was avery important tangent and as it is your anchor
point. So thank you for sharing, Shivani. Sustainablegrowth. Okay, what's sustainable? So this is
(32:25):
something I'm working on now. Yes. I think,you know, for me, I was an accidental law firm
founder, you know, that like I kept meetingthese people and like that needed help and
like I, I never really thought I would startmy own law firm. And so I think it's been a
journey of figuring out how to like run a lawfirm and grow it and all of this and like.
(32:48):
I'm getting to that point where it's like, okay,what am I doing? Am I still doing this? Am
I merging it with something else or someoneelse? And I'm very fortunate to have really
great partners. I'm really fortunate to havethe opportunity to these couple of law firms
have offered for me to merge my law firm withtheirs, join them, all of that. So it's figuring
that part of it out. But I think, you know,to be sustainable or scalable, I think one
(33:15):
thing, especially people who are type A likeme, that we struggle with is delegating. And
that like finding, you know, you're not goodat everything. You're not like, the first thing
I did was hire a tax guy. Cause I was like,I don't do this. Like I don't know how to do
anything tax wise, but it's just like figuringout like, you know, what you're good at and
what you're not good at instead of trying tolearn everything, figuring out how to delegate
(33:37):
or finding team members to help you with thestuff you're not good at. Because I think a
lot of people, especially founders try and holdon to everything. And that's kind of what leads
to burnout because if you're trying to do stuffthat you're just not great at, you just always
are gonna feel defeated. But if you have otherpeople that are good at that stuff, supporting
(33:58):
you in that, and you get to focus on the stuffyou're really good at, then that's gonna energize
you because then you're being more successfulbecause you're doing the things you're great
at. And then you're being supported still byother people. So you have that mental bandwidth
to keep doing and keep running in the rightdirection. what the stuff that you're passionate
about, you're good at, what you're trying togrow. So I think to be sustainable or scalable,
(34:23):
learning how to delegate is a really importantskillset that it takes some time and emotional
bandwidth to be able to be okay with lettinggo of something. Cause like most founders,
like their companies are their babies. Likethey're growing it. And you know, it's just
so hard. It's like saying like, It's like you'refinding a nanny for your child. Like, okay,
(34:47):
I'm okay with letting this person do this partof my business. So. Excellent analogy. And
it also probably has to do with your own awareness,right? And the maturity of recognizing there
are certain things that I just don't wanna do,but I don't like it or I'm not good at it.
(35:08):
And the maturity and awareness that it's betterdone by someone else, right? Yes. And I'm also
self-employed and, you know, pushing through.And I have also delegated many things. I'm
having a fantastic team, the producer of mypodcast, and I let them do and tell, I follow
their orders to tell you the truth. But youneed that sometimes. Sometimes it's easier
(35:33):
if someone just tells you what you need to doand then they're just handling the rest.
Um, and thank you for joining me in the, um,founder sandbox podcast this month, you know,
um, to my listeners, if you liked this episodewith Shivani Han what sign up for the monthly
(35:58):
release, um, where founders, business owners,corporate directors and professional service
providers provide their own origin stories.And they tell their stories about resilience
purpose driven and scalable. Thank you again.You can listen to these episodes on any major
podcast streaming service. Signing off for thismonth. Thank you. Thanks, Brenda.
We're standing on the edge of something big.We're going to make some changes. Hi, I'm pleased
to announce something very special to me, anew subscription-based service through Next
(00:25):
Act Advisors that allows members exclusive accessto personal industry insights and bespoke corporate
governance knowledge. This comes in the formof blogs, personal book recommendations, and
early access to the founder's sandbox podcastepisodes before they released to the public.
(00:46):
If you want more white glove information onbuilding your startup with information like
what was in today's episode, sign up with thelink in the show notes to enjoy being a special
member of Next Act Advisors. As a thank youto Founders Sandbox listeners, you can use
code SANDBOX25 at checkout to enjoy 25% offyour membership costs. Thank you.
(01:18):
Welcome back to the Founder's Sandbox. I amBrenda McCabe, your host. This is a monthly
podcast in which I reach entrepreneurs, businessowners, who are going to learn about building
resilient, purpose-driven, and sustainable businesseswith great corporate governance. I like to
(01:39):
assist the entrepreneurs in building these scalable,well-governed and resilient business. And what
I do with my guests is they tell their originstory about how they've built their own practices.
And we'll get to the origin story of my guestthis month, Shivani Hanwat. Shivani and I have
known each other for many years. She was bi-coastalin New York and Los Angeles. We met actually
(02:05):
in the Los Angeles. Los Angeles Venture Association,LAVA. It has a women affinity group. And she
was eagerly contributing to some of the materialand programs that we put on for women business
owners, actually startups in the LA ecosystem.So I wanna thank you Shivani for joining me
(02:29):
this month and the founder Sandbox. Thank you,Brenda. Thank you. So. You own your own law
firm, the law firm of Shivani Hanwat. And itwas originally based in New York. I don't know
whether you operate nationally, but I'd loveyou to kind of repeat your origin story when
(02:52):
I met you the first time in one of the womenin lava. It was a small gathering. And it struck
me your story was fascinating, because you wereworking for a law firm in New York, but it
was in your social life. You were, you know,out for drinks in the evenings and you would
(03:13):
often be approached by women who were in thefashion industry, so models, and inevitably
over a drink or maybe not a drink, they wouldend up using some of your free services. What
was that? What were they asking your adviceon, Shivani? And with that, we're going to
get started on your origin story. Thank you.Yeah, sure. So, you know, I was in my twenties
(03:36):
in New York City and as one does in New YorkCity, I would often go out. So I, at the time,
was working in criminal law with a firm andcivil litigation. But so I would go out with
my friends. You know, I went to NYU, so I hada lot of friends in the city. And, you know,
these models kept approaching me and they werelike, hey, I heard you're a lawyer. I need
(03:59):
help. And I was like, oh, did you get arrestedor did something happen like that? And they
were like, no. And I kept hearing stories ofhow they were working for these modeling agencies.
Most of the people that approached me were internationalmodels and their passports or their visas or
something like their paperwork was being withheldso that they didn't really have freedom to
(04:20):
travel and then not only that, they wouldn'tbe paid out. So. they would model for days,
weeks, sometimes months at a time, and be paid$0. And the agencies were just, there was just
a lot of abuse in the industry. And so theykept asking for help. And at the time, I didn't
really understand enough about the industryto know how pervasive this was. But I started
(04:45):
looking into it because it wasn't just one modelapproaching me. It was like dozens of models
over the course of a few weeks, if not maybea few months. that kept asking me for help.
And it got to a point. I imagine your name gotaround, right? Well, because I wasn't doing
anything yet. It was just that I was the onlylawyer at all of these events, right? And I
(05:07):
mean, this is also pre-Me too. So the otherpart of it was, is the lawyers they were going
to, some of the male lawyers unfortunately,were also taking advantage of them and being
like, hey, I'll help you, but you have to bemy date to this event like Saturday night.
So they would see me in my 20s and a woman andwoman of color, and they would just be like,
(05:27):
oh, OK, so she won't sexually harass me or shewon't threaten me in any way. So I think I
was seen as a safer space for that. So I thinkthat's why people approach me at parties. And
then it got to a point where I just I couldn'treally keep hearing it and not do anything
about it. And so I did some research into it.And then I found lawyers. I knew some in my
(05:50):
network that knew how to help them. And thebiggest issue, it seemed, was the immigration
part, where it was like, if models come intothe US under what's called an O-1 visa, and
typically it's tied to whoever their agent oremployer is if they come in under that route.
But if they do it, there's other ways they cando it to have a little more freedom, or they
(06:11):
can get their green cards so they have freedom.And that's the EB1A route. And so I figured
out an attorney who did that and he had agreedto like train me in how to do that. So eventually
like I started my own law firm focusing on that.And it was just to help these models get some
freedom. And then, you know, I expanded fromthere to doing some IP and contracts because
(06:34):
once I helped them and get got them more stable,they were like, okay, well now I'm doing these
ventures and I want you to negotiate these contractsand I want you to be my lawyer for this. Like
you were great. So that's how my law firm kindof came to be. And it was just 10 years actually,
since I've opened it this past August. Oh mygoodness. Yeah. It was just, it started out
at this crazy need of just people needing helpand to be in a safe space. And the irony of
(06:58):
it is that I originally went to law school tokind of work on human trafficking issues. Oh
my goodness. And I never thought I would seeit. Like I never thought I'd work in fashion,
but I mean, the work I was doing was tied tothat because a lot of the models were essentially
held in debt bondage. of being tied to theseagencies not being paid out and saying like,
(07:19):
you owe us this much money so we're not gonnapay you or what have you. So I think that's
how it's still, I got to do what I went to lawschool for, but in a different way than I had
initially thought. Like I thought I would workfor the UN or something like, but it was so
hard to get into the UN. I applied nonstop originally,but like I got to do this. And like we changed
(07:39):
some laws around in this space. Like, The BostonGlobe did like the Spotlight team did a piece
on this and like some of my clients that I wasalso interviewed for. And then, you know, we
met with officials in city hall. And so thefreelances and free act, which got passed in
New York also applies to models. So if an agency,you know, gets payment from a client to the
(08:04):
agency and they don't pay the model within 30days, the state of New York will actually fine
the agency. So the models now have recourseto collect payment faster. Excellent. So I
would ask you later to give me this law, andwe'll put it in the show notes. Because this
is amazing. You have been a trailblazer in aserendipitous way. You started out, or while
(08:30):
you're studying law, you thought you would workin sexual traffic, and you did not, or human
trafficking. And you were doing criminal law.ended up actually representing fashion models,
immigration issues, as well as eventually venturinginto assisting them in their contract management
(08:53):
and IP. So amazing story. And I loved one thingthat you did say. You said, I couldn't not
do anything, right? I researched it and I justcould not just let this go. So. Very, very
resilient, Shivani. How did that experienceor others inform you to actually move all the
(09:18):
way out here to Los Angeles and set up practice?And tell us a little bit about that. So I don't
think you and I have actually talked about thisbefore. But originally, what brought me out
to LA was some of the work that I did here forthe models. I was recruited by some organizations
in the e-sports area. Um, you know, e-sportsis actually pretty big out here in California.
(09:43):
And, um, there was some e-sports organizationsthat wanted me to help implement essentially
policies and basic human rights for the gamers,because, um, kind of what we had done for the
models in New York, um, there was really noregulations a couple of years ago. It's still
pretty bare minimum, but. for the e-sports gamers.And you have all these essentially mostly teenage
(10:07):
boys, there are female gamers as well, but inthe e-sports tournaments, and they were just
taking a ton of speed or drinking nonstop MonsterEnergy drinks, and they were just dying, quite
frankly, they were under all this pressure toperform. And again, there was really no regulation
around it. And their contracts were devoid oflike... just basic human rights of like, okay,
(10:30):
you can get a bathroom break, you get time toeat, you get time to sleep. So originally I
was recruited out here to kind of work on thoseissues. And I will say, if you've never been
to an e-sports tournament and like in a stadium,I advise going, it's an experience. Wow. This
is like a trillion dollar industry and it liketraverses all socioeconomic, like really like
(10:56):
it. It just transcends all lines. It's justan incredible scene to experience, just the
fandom of it all. So I was in that space fora little bit originally and it just, it was
a very chaotic environment that I just didn'treally want to be in anymore. Right. And then,
(11:21):
yeah, I just- And you were doing this from fromyour own practice? At that time, you'd set
up your practice, so you just recently celebrated10 years of your law firm, Shivani Hanwad.
Yeah. You were actually serving the e-sportsfrom your law firm. Yeah, so I was doing some
(11:43):
contract stuff. I was doing visas for the gamers,things like that. So I was getting more familiar
with it. But it was because the issues paralleled.basically what was happening with models in
New York with the sports gamers in California.So that's kind of how the whole thing started.
And then, like I said, it wasn't really forme, but then I had made some inroads here.
(12:06):
I got connected to Lava and some other organizations.And then I got offered the position to teach
at NYU's LA campus. So that's kind of anchoredme here in Los Angeles now. But yeah, so I
still do kind of the same stuff and I work.you know, same. The thing with immigration
(12:26):
law is it's federal. So my clients are all overthe world and a lot of my clients also in the
fashion, creative industries, their contractsare mostly like for New York and California
based things. And like I'm admitted to practicelaw in both New York and California. So they
just email me, like we do Zooms or, you know,calls and stuff and go through stuff. So yeah,
I serve clients all over the world basically.
(12:51):
position you have with New York Stern's LA campus?It's not Stern. So it's New York University.
Okay. I went to Stern undergrad. Yes. And then,but New York University's Los Angeles campus
is just a general campus. It's not a specificschool. Okay. So we serve students from all
(13:11):
schools. And actually we have multiple globalcampuses. So we have two other degree granting
campuses. One is NYU Abu Dhabi. and one is NYUShanghai. So this is what come to our LA program.
It's an undergrad study abroad only program.So it's one semester and they come mainly from
(13:32):
our New York campus. Some are, we also do havea lot of students that come from our Abu Dhabi
campus and our Shanghai campus. And then theymight be as part of other programs too. And
so they come out here, they spend a semester,they, we work on getting them internships.
And they just kind of see, like most of themwant to go into the entertainment industries
in, you know, whether it's media, like screenwriting,directing, producing, or music. So they're
(13:58):
just trying to see if they like the LA environment,make some inroads for if they want to like
pursue their career in LA or New York or what'sbetter for them. So that's the program that
we have out here right now. And like we're growingactively because the campus opened in fall
of 2019. closed promptly in spring of 2020.And then just reopened fully again last year.
(14:21):
All right. And do you teach a specific subject?Well, yeah. So the course that I teach, it's
basically structured around like entrepreneurshipor creatives. So I bring in kind of my business
and my legal backgrounds. My, the director ofthe NYU LA program is amazing. And she gave
(14:41):
me carte blanche to kind of design a course.She was like, think of them as your future
clients. What do you wish they knew? So that'skind of what we designed. So we like include
like how to pitch, how to develop a deck andthen how to pitch that deck. I also do a negotiation
simulation because oftentimes these studentshave never like negotiated a deal before. So
(15:03):
I go over, you know, what are basic deal termsthat you should at least understand and if
nothing else have these in a contract. And thenI design a whole simulation and like put them
in groups. and give them mock contracts andthey have to negotiate it out. And it's really
fun because every single time we do it, theyall start with the same contract, the same
(15:23):
roles, and everything. And then they all presentat the end of class what their deal terms were.
And no group has ever had the same deal terms.And the reason for that is because it's also
to show them that you all come in with yourown biases and preferences and experiences
and values. Yes. It doesn't really matter whatthe other people are doing. It's just like,
(15:45):
what makes sense to you? What do you feel comfortablewith? Because if you feel comfortable with
the deal and you're okay performing for thisrate or with these terms or whatever, then
you're going to be fine. And so, because thenI always ask them, did you want someone else's
deal? And they might say that they wanted partsof it. They're like, oh, I didn't know I could
add that. Sometimes if we're doing an artistcontract negotiation, my female students will
(16:11):
always be like, they'll add in hair and makeupbudget. And then the male students didn't know
like, oh, that's a thing or like, how much ishair and mica? And like women know that it
should be expensive. So they're like, oh, Icould do that. So like, it's things like that
come up cause I'm like, you can add in, if it'snot written there, you can add stuff in. Like
(16:32):
I give you flexibility. And they're like, okay,I'll think about that next time. But because
they negotiated out, they felt heard. So they'recomfortable with the deal that they agreed
to because they felt like they were heard, theyfelt valued. And so they were fine with their
deal overall. So again, although they may havepicked up some things that they would like
(16:54):
for next time, no one's really been outrightlike, my deal was terrible. Like everyone's
kind of felt like kind of comfortable becausethey get time to talk it through. And I think
that's like the biggest takeaway is like, aslong as like the other side feels heard, you
can agree to a situation where all parties kindof essentially win and can work together well.
(17:16):
And thank you, this is fascinating. So you havean entrepreneurship program at the New York
University's Los Angeles campus. There's anothercampus in Abu Dhabi and Shanghai. And so it's
a year abroad. So is it cross-cultural mix andwhat students? Yes, but. Sorry, I'm just gonna
(17:39):
clarify. So it's not a year abroad for Abu Dhabiand Shanghai. They're actually degree granting
campuses. Okay. So the Abu Dhabi campus is actuallya really incredible program. It's a four year
program. Okay. And it only has like a 2% admissionrate cause tuition is free at that campus.
So they're completely separate programs butthey're all under the NYU umbrella. But I'm
(18:00):
just saying that students come to our LA campusfor a semester. It's a semester, right? Yeah,
for a semester just to kind of do a semesterabroad essentially. And how many entrepreneurs
have gone through your program? So, okay, solet me also clarify, sorry. I teach the Entrepreneurship
for Creatives course, but like our entire curriculumhere is centered around the entertainment industry.
(18:25):
So there's a movie marketing class, there'sa screenwriting class, there's pitching your
project class, there's a history of film class.So it's all centered around entertainment.
There's music courses, there's stuff like that.The entrepreneur part is just kind of what
I do because like, that's my background. Andalso like if you're a creative, you are an
(18:46):
entrepreneur in the industry, like you are yourbrand. So mine's the only one, my course is
the only one focused on that. So it's not thatwe have entrepreneurs here. They all want to
be in the entertainment industry, but it's partof being in the entertainment industry, you
are an entrepreneur. So just to clarify thata little bit, that it's not a separate program.
Excellent. And thank you for that, you know,clarifying. And I would like you to speak about
(19:13):
your own new venture. So not only do you haveyour own law practice, you have recently started
an initiative that is the South Asian CreatorCollective. Tell us a little bit more about
this. Yeah, so we launched that out of the NYULA campus. Okay. Because I just found out like
(19:36):
that my South Asian students They, you know,we have only a few, usually every semester,
but they just didn't have the community thatsome of the other creative communities had
because typically South Asian families, yourparents want you to be a doctor or an engineer
and not really like, okay, you can have a musichobby or be a dancer as a hobby, but not have
(19:58):
that as a career. So there was a lot of lackof support. And then I represent some South
Asian artists. whether they're writers or dancersor creators, producers, things like that in
New York and LA. And so they also obviouslywould say the same thing. So I kind of wanted
to bring everyone together to not only createa community for like my clients, my friends
(20:20):
who are in the industry, but also to help buildthat bridge for my South Asian students to
have like, you know, mentors in the industry.So we had our first meeting earlier this, a
couple of months ago. What came out of thatwas really cool that I brought together my
friends and clients. They've already startedcollabing together on stuff. And then Brenda
through you and Ty, I met people who are possiblyinterested in investing in South Asian creators
(20:45):
projects. So we're looking at doing a possiblepitch event in the spring to have our creators
pitch projects and then to have investors possiblyinvest in them. So I like the idea of just
bringing people together to kind of create thiscommunity and to help each other kind of, you
know, use everyone's skill sets just to createa better whole together. I love it. And I was
(21:11):
absolutely thrilled that you were at the ThaiSo Cal's recent event with the preview and
a screening of Show Her the Money, as well aswe had our final. competition for five women-owned
businesses. So thank you for joining us there.We did that at the Noah House in Hollywood,
of which I'm a member, and look forward to hearingmore about the PitchFest that is probably gonna
(21:37):
be in the spring of next year. Hopefully. Noah'scrazy though about that, show her the money
screening. I didn't realize how many peopleI knew in the film. Like I knew... Liz, like
from this organization that we were part ofin New York, Dreamers and Doors, were like
mainly female entrepreneurs. Like I knew herwhen she was starting Sogal. And so it was
(21:59):
so crazy to see how far they've come. And thenlike I knew so many other people in the film.
And I was like, wait, I knew them back then.I didn't know they were in this film. And like
Naseem was in there. Like there was just somany people that I was saw in the film that
I was like, wait, I know these people personally.So it was just a really cool screening to see.
And to see so many. people that I've known overthe years, just in how far they've come over
(22:21):
the years too. Was really cool. Yeah, initiallyit's a movement now. So initially Show Her
the Money was gonna be shown in 50 US cities.It's gone viral. I think we're up in to the
200s and yeah, it's a movement. So thank youfor being, and it's a small world, right? Oh,
completely. We all end up, yes, there are noborders. So yeah, thank you. And I look forward
(22:46):
to that launch and I would be happy to promoteit here in the founder sandbox as well as on
my YouTube channel. You know, this switch gears.I want to I initially I've known you for years,
but I really wanted you to come on to the foundersandbox because not only your story of not
(23:07):
resiliency, but to the move across from thefrom LA to from New York to LA. But you're
passionate clearly about resilience. And I amalso passionate. And it's the type of work
I do with founders as they're scaling theirbusinesses just working on this resiliency,
(23:28):
I say muscles. You recently hosted during LA'stech week, about two weeks back, a session
on resiliency. Tell us a little bit about itand why you wanted to spearhead that. Um, so
I did my first LA tech week event last year,and that was a great learning experience. We
(23:49):
did it all about pivoting and we had like 400RSVPs for like 75 spots because I did at NYU's
LA campus and we're small. So we had a firemartial capacity of 75. So it was just like
overwhelming. But the original reason I launchedthat event was because Um, when I looked at
(24:10):
the original LA tech week calendar, all I sawwere men on that calendar. And I only, if I
saw a panel with a woman, it was like one womanand like five men. And I was like, I have so
many incredible friends and clients that arewomen doing incredible things in the tech space
and they never get the platform to talk aboutthis. So I wanted a female forward event. Um,
(24:34):
so I did that one and then that one went reallywell. So then everyone was like, Okay, what
are you doing for tech week this year? So that'show I was like, okay, so everyone really liked
the pivoting one because they said they learnedsomething from it and it was something everyone
could relate to. So then, you know, as we'recoming out of COVID, a lot of people have felt
burnout and have felt the need to kind of justlike reinvent themselves or just kind of rise
(24:58):
from the ashes to a degree. So then this year'stheme, I was like, I feel like I wanna do something
around resilience. because it's about like weatheringthe storm and coming out and like, you know,
thriving again. And so again, I did it femaleforward. But what was really incredible is
a lot of my male clients and friends also cameand like others that I didn't know. And like
(25:21):
all of them just like loved the event. And they'relike, this has been the most informative event
I've ever been to. And I said that at the beginningof my event, I was like, you know, this is
like, yes, I, you know, my panel is all women,but we can't change the ratio of where only
2% of women receive VC funding if we don't havemen in the room, because you need everyone
(25:42):
at the table to help change that statistic.And so by sharing the stories of like, again,
they were my clients and friends, but they allrun like incredible organizations. Like Steph
Rizal was one of our speakers. She's an incrediblesinger songwriter. She just wrote a book for
creatives and self-care. I had Jazzy Collins,who's the first black person to win an Emmy
(26:04):
for casting. And she has a production housecalled Force Perspective. I had Mickey Reynolds,
who used to be the CEO, co-founder of Grid 110,and is now head of programs at Slosnikov, a
VC fund. And then I had May Muna, who is amazing.She's a refugee. And she started two organizations,
one called the Tia Foundation to help refugeesin the US. And then she started this... restaurant
(26:29):
called Flavors From Afar where refugee chefsessentially have their menus every month featured
at the restaurant. So like I got to featurethese incredible stories and founders and you
know, just how they like, May Muna, her FlavorsFrom Afar restaurant is now Michelin like rated,
but she was fired from a Carl's Jr. That's likeher story. She's like, yeah, I was fired from
(26:52):
Carl's Jr. and now I have a Michelin restaurant.So where you start and kind of what happens,
it's like you just have to keep going. And allof them kind of had stories like that of being
like, you know, dismissed somewhere early intheir career and just like, keep like, just
keep going. And like, Jazzy too, like, you know,she was just like dismissed for being usually
the only black female in any room. And now she'sthe first black person to win an Emmy earlier
(27:15):
this year. And it's just like how, you know,yes, in casting, sorry. But yeah, and how that
like just those stories of how that rises. AndI think a lot of people learn from that because
a lot of them were just like, you just haveto keep trying, or you just have to try something.
And if it doesn't work, you know, go a differentdirection, but fail faster was kind of the
(27:36):
message that they were putting out there thatlike you'll still figure it out and you just
have to like have a really supportive communityaround you. And as long as you have that, like
you can just like find the strength to keepgoing. Tudos to you. This is a podcast that
is absolutely filled with lots of nuggets, yourown story in New York, coming out to LA, you're
(28:02):
teaching your own entrepreneurship journey andyour passion with respect to the underrepresented,
right? And actually putting on events. and FemaleForward as well as last year in pivoting is
thank you for being part of the ecosystem herein Los Angeles and next year I wonder what
(28:27):
you're going to do in LA Tech Week. I know thisweek was pretty burned out still so we'll see.
We have time. So you know I'd like to give youthe opportunity to provide how my listeners
can contact you or how's it best to contactyou. Um, yeah, I'm on LinkedIn. I'm on Instagram.
(28:49):
My Instagram is just my name, Shivani Hanwad.Um, my email is just shivani at shivanilaw.com.
So I guess any of those are kind of the bestways to find me or connect with me. Okay, and
we're going to shift gears back to this sandbox.You are a guest here to the founder sandbox.
And again, my mission is to build resilient,scalable, and purpose-driven companies. So
(29:16):
I always like to ask each of my guests whatthe word means, resilience, purpose-driven,
and scalable, sustainable businesses. Each ofmy guests has a different meaning. And it's
actually one of the highlights of my podcastfor me. Okay, so am I doing all three? Yes,
(29:37):
you will. Okay. You already talked a littlebit about resilience, but what does it mean
to you? What does resilience mean to you? ShivaniHa. I think resilience just means to me, it's
just like to persevere, to keep going. And Ithink all of us have our own challenges, obstacles
and hardships. And I think finding the strengthto just kind of get through those. Because
(30:00):
you don't always get over everything that youkind of maybe get through in your life, but
getting through it is, I guess, the way to lookat it in my mind. And then just kind of still
making stuff happen, even if it's hard, is theway I look at resilience. To persevere, still
making it happen. Thank you. Purpose-driven.You're very purpose-driven. How many back?
(30:26):
If we were to scale you. Well, purpose-driven,I just find it like, you know, just quick tangent,
but like what originally drew me into law schooland like wanting to work in the human trafficking
space was like, you know, I was caught in thesemonsoon floods in India when I was working
in Bollywood. And I learned about human traffickingand that's kind of what I wanted to work on.
(30:48):
And I have worked on it in different ways, like,you know, changing that law in Delaware and
then my work on the TVPGA as part of the NewYork State Trafficking Coalition. So I have
worked on that. And I just think that's alwaysbeen kind of my, I guess, anchor point in a
way of like a lot of the work or the pro bonowork even that I do through my law firm. And
(31:11):
part of why I've kept my law firm is becausenow no one tells me how I get to spend my time
or money. I wanna work on representing childrenthat have been trafficked and do those cases
pro bono. I can do that. No one's like, no,you need more billable hours. Like it's up
to me. So I have a couple of nonprofits thatI work with that I represent kids that have
been trafficked to get them either status hereor just like to a safer spot. And I really
(31:36):
love that work. So the work I do with the creativesand everything, it kind of funds and provides
me the ability to do this other work. So I thinkpurpose-driven is just like figuring out what
it is that you're passionate about and whatyour anchor point is. Like, why are you doing
this? Like, what is it that's getting you throughand what gets you out of bed? Like I get really
excited to like work on my clients' cases becauseI think they're doing really incredible things.
(32:00):
Yes. So I think purpose-driven is just likethat, like finding what you're passionate about
and like how you can have a positive impactin the community. I have goosebumps. I had,
you went off on a little tangent. That was avery important tangent and as it is your anchor
point. So thank you for sharing, Shivani. Sustainablegrowth. Okay, what's sustainable? So this is
(32:25):
something I'm working on now. Yes. I think,you know, for me, I was an accidental law firm
founder, you know, that like I kept meetingthese people and like that needed help and
like I, I never really thought I would startmy own law firm. And so I think it's been a
journey of figuring out how to like run a lawfirm and grow it and all of this and like.
(32:48):
I'm getting to that point where it's like, okay,what am I doing? Am I still doing this? Am
I merging it with something else or someoneelse? And I'm very fortunate to have really
great partners. I'm really fortunate to havethe opportunity to these couple of law firms
have offered for me to merge my law firm withtheirs, join them, all of that. So it's figuring
that part of it out. But I think, you know,to be sustainable or scalable, I think one
(33:15):
thing, especially people who are type A likeme, that we struggle with is delegating. And
that like finding, you know, you're not goodat everything. You're not like, the first thing
I did was hire a tax guy. Cause I was like,I don't do this. Like I don't know how to do
anything tax wise, but it's just like figuringout like, you know, what you're good at and
what you're not good at instead of trying tolearn everything, figuring out how to delegate
(33:37):
or finding team members to help you with thestuff you're not good at. Because I think a
lot of people, especially founders try and holdon to everything. And that's kind of what leads
to burnout because if you're trying to do stuffthat you're just not great at, you just always
are gonna feel defeated. But if you have otherpeople that are good at that stuff, supporting
(33:58):
you in that, and you get to focus on the stuffyou're really good at, then that's gonna energize
you because then you're being more successfulbecause you're doing the things you're great
at. And then you're being supported still byother people. So you have that mental bandwidth
to keep doing and keep running in the rightdirection. what the stuff that you're passionate
about, you're good at, what you're trying togrow. So I think to be sustainable or scalable,
(34:23):
learning how to delegate is a really importantskillset that it takes some time and emotional
bandwidth to be able to be okay with lettinggo of something. Cause like most founders,
like their companies are their babies. Likethey're growing it. And you know, it's just
so hard. It's like saying like, It's like you'refinding a nanny for your child. Like, okay,
(34:47):
I'm okay with letting this person do this partof my business. So. Excellent analogy. And
it also probably has to do with your own awareness,right? And the maturity of recognizing there
are certain things that I just don't wanna do,but I don't like it or I'm not good at it.
(35:08):
And the maturity and awareness that it's betterdone by someone else, right? Yes. And I'm also
self-employed and, you know, pushing through.And I have also delegated many things. I'm
having a fantastic team, the producer of mypodcast, and I let them do and tell, I follow
their orders to tell you the truth. But youneed that sometimes. Sometimes it's easier
(35:33):
if someone just tells you what you need to doand then they're just handling the rest.
Um, and thank you for joining me in the, um,founder sandbox podcast this month, you know,
um, to my listeners, if you liked this episodewith Shivani Han what sign up for the monthly
(35:58):
release, um, where founders, business owners,corporate directors and professional service
providers provide their own origin stories.And they tell their stories about resilience
purpose driven and scalable. Thank you again.You can listen to these episodes on any major
podcast streaming service. Signing off for thismonth. Thank you. Thanks, Brenda.
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