40. Bringing personality to contemporary spaces with Courtney McDonnell Architects

In this episode, architect Courtney McDonnell discusses her journey in architecture, her design philosophy, and the evolution of client needs in residential projects.

 

She shares insights into her award-winning projects, including the innovative Pink House and the transformative Griffith Avenue project, highlighting the importance of integrating interior and exterior design while addressing contemporary living requirements.

 

In this conversation, host Tanya Neufeld Flanagan and Courtney McDonnell explore various aspects of contemporary design, focusing on the integration of indoor and outdoor spaces, material choices, and the importance of personal style in creating unique living environments.

 

They discuss the challenges of navigating design trends and emphasize the significance of feeling comfortable in one's home. The conversation also highlights the role of color, texture, and practical materials in achieving a cohesive and inviting aesthetic.

 

Some key takeaways

• Courtney won two awards for her project, Griffith Avenue.
• She established her practice in 2017 after a diverse career in design.
• Her approach focuses on creating cohesive interior and exterior designs.
• Clients often seek innovative solutions for maximizing space.
• There is a shift away from traditional open-plan living.
• The Pink House project showcases a unique blend of color and design.
• Courtney emphasizes the importance of understanding client personalities.
• She advocates for clever modifications of existing spaces.
• The Griffith Avenue project involved a complete transformation of a dated home.
• Light and space are central themes in her architectural designs. The garden was in amazing condition, requiring no landscaping budget.
• Blurring the lines between indoor and outdoor spaces enhances functionality.
• .css-j9qmi7{display:-webkit-box;display:-webkit-flex;display:-ms-flexbox;display:flex;-webkit-flex-direction:row;-ms-flex-direction:row;flex-direction:row;font-weight:700;margin-bottom:1rem;margin-top:2.8rem;width:100%;-webkit-box-pack:start;-ms-flex-pack:start;-webkit-justify-content:start;justify-content:start;padding-left:5rem;}@media only screen and (max-width: 599px){.css-j9qmi7{padding-left:0;-webkit-box-pack:center;-ms-flex-pack:center;-webkit-justify-content:center;justify-content:center;}}.css-j9qmi7 svg{fill:#27292D;}.css-j9qmi7 .eagfbvw0{-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;color:#27292D;}

Episode Transcript

(00:06):
Welcome back to another episode of the interiors podcast.
Today we have an architect with us.
This is Courtney McDonnell who runs her practice, Courtney McDonnell Architects.
Welcome.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm delighted to be here.
Yeah, thanks Courtney.
I'm really excited to have you here.
We've actually interviewed two of your clients uh on the podcast.

(00:29):
We've had uh Mary Liz who was on Great House Revival and you helped her do up hergrandmother's house.
And then also Richie and Ciara from the Pink House.
That's right.
Yes, so just sorry I didn't do Mary Liz, just no I don't know who that is.

(00:50):
But definitely Ciaran Ritchie.
Okay, let me say that again.
I was like, should I just lie here?
I swear.
my God, I'm losing my mind.
Anyways, and really excited to have you here because we've actually had two of yourclients on the podcast, Richie and Ciara with the pink house.

(01:14):
So if anyone's listening, you might have seen this extension here in Dublin, but it lookslike it's in Spain or something.
And it's like this pink, putty, terracotta angled cool thing, but it's here in Dublin andCourtney brought that to life.
And that's one of the things we're going to talk about today.
Cause you do pretty unusual.
funky things, but they're not like the kind of grand designs where you're like, who wouldever live in that?

(01:37):
You know, they still feel like homes.
um And that's what I think is so great about your work.
And speaking of how great you are at your work, tell me about something that happened lastnight.
Oh, thank you.
We won two awards actually.
So our project, Griffith Avenue, which we'll probably chat about a little bit more.
We won best house extension and also best building of the night at the awards.

(02:03):
So absolutely thrilled.
We get shortlisted for these awards, never win anything.
So it was an honor to win something.
yeah, and absolute credit to the team here for all the work, hard work.
was.
probably three years in the making.
absolutely thrilled.
And a delight for the clients as well.
They've been so accommodating with showing off the house with, you know, open house Dublinand photo shoots and videos and all of that.

(02:28):
So that's been great.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Congrats, Courtney.
Well, yeah, let's backtrack a little bit and tell us about yourself and your practice.
Sure, so I studied architecture here in Dublin.
I graduated in 2012, which was still very much the height of the recession.

(02:49):
And it was really hard to get paid work or any kind of architecture work at the time.
I kind of had a love-hate relationship with architecture studying it.
It's a pretty intense course, as a lot of people know.
So when I came out of college, I actually just...
dabbled in a lot of other creative avenues for about a year and a half.

(03:09):
So I worked in interior design, graphic design, set design, anything that had design inthe name.
And eventually I was lucky enough about a year and a half after graduating to land a jobin a practice in Dublin.
So I worked there for four years.
The practice primarily did commercial architecture, which I suppose threw me in the deepend a little bit.

(03:34):
the practice itself actually had downsized in the recession.
And then I was coming in joining two directors, but working on pretty large high profilecommercial work in Ireland and overseas.
And uh I suppose in a way it kind of built my confidence a little bit as a designer and Imaybe got my love of architecture back and I really enjoyed actually working in the field.

(03:59):
We did a small bit of residential and that's what I really fell in love with.
And I just loved the scale of it.
I loved the personal relationship with clients.
And about four years into working there, I turned 30, had a bit of a quarter life crisisand decided, right, it's now or never.
So I set up my business in 2017.

(04:19):
And so it's Courtney McDonnell Architects, previously Courtney McDonnell Studio, and wespecialize in residential architecture.
And so I suppose our whole ethos really is we work on both the interior and the exteriordesign.
And really for us, it's about, I suppose, taking a lot of the decision-making away from,you know, the client and when it gets quite stressful and you have that decision fatigue

(04:43):
on site that we can kind of consider all of those decisions as early as possible into theprocess.
And then I suppose the end result is really quite a unified, holistic and kind ofcohesive.
aesthetic for the project.
Yeah, I think that's why in my head I always used to be like, is she an interior designeror is she an architect or is she an interior architect?

(05:07):
Because a lot of your projects would feature joinery that is like very much integratedinto the architecture.
And it's kind of hard to tell where like one ends or begins like lots of beautiful lighttimber.
It's very you.
Yeah, and that's it.
mean, that's a big part of it really is looking at how we kind of achieve that cohesivelook and feel in a house.

(05:31):
Obviously we do quite contemporary architecture and bespoke consider joinery is a massivepart of that for us and getting or creating spaces that have in a way quite a minimal
feel, but also quite a lived in feel I think is quite important.
I think when you end up with maybe something that, you know, lot of uh architecture yousee can look quite flat because there's just not enough texture in it or not enough

(06:01):
material in it.
And you can have still quite a neat and tidy and simple uh interior, but also have quite alot of depth to it using, I suppose, different pieces of joinery and material in
interesting ways.
Yeah, and not all architects include joinery as part of their work.
I mean, it's another whole ton of work where I've worked of the interior designers.

(06:26):
That's a huge chunk of what we do.
So for that to be integrated in the architecture is a whole other level of package,really.
It is.
And I don't know if it's maybe the type of clients that we attract, but the reality isparticularly now with the cost of construction, the budget just doesn't really always
stretch to having an interior designer as well on a project.

(06:49):
And I think when I had, before I set up my own practice, I really had seen that quite alot when working with residential clients, the practice we worked with, very much we did
the architecture and then there was sort of sign off on that and then
really the clients were kind of left hanging a little bit and they would be wanting tofollow up with us but I suppose in the mind of the practice our job had been done and

(07:14):
finished.
So I saw that far too often and that's really how I kind of came about starting my ownpractice and trying to create a solution for that and kind of everything, all of the
finishes inside the house.
And that's really how I design.

(07:34):
I mean, for me, I suppose even as a, Our work would be quite well known for, say, whenwe're doing an extension, the rear might be, you know, a bit bold and a bit different, but
actually it's probably one of the last things we design at the start of a project.
uh Yeah.
So like while it, it might seem like that was our starting point, it really isn't likeit's always a

(08:00):
out obviously getting your layout to work, your circulation, your flow through the house,the right room sizes, the right orientation.
Really it's about like kind of placing ourselves at the human scale, which is always, Ifind, an interior discussion before it becomes an exterior discussion.
So sometimes the exterior is actually the last kind of consideration on a project.

(08:26):
And that's just how I work.
And it's probably totally different for every architect.
Yeah, but I think it's a really good point because sometimes you see really coolextensions that are glass all at the front.
uh But there's a huge implication of that.
You can't put anything up against that wall.
There's going to be a bunch of light coming in.
Then there's circulation.

(08:47):
Like, OK, there's only one point where you can actually go out from here.
So that means if you're in the living room, have to go to the kitchen, to this corner togo outside.
Whereas if you start from the rooms first,
you can be like, okay, well, they actually really want that window seat.
So the glazing has to go up and then full height, like all these, rather than people beinglike, oh, I want just like the giant sliding doors.

(09:10):
And it's like, wait, wait, wait, but have you take a few steps back?
And I think that's what a good architect with an interior's mind can do.
No, that's it completely.
And I'm actually, see such a move away from the big glass, wall to wall glass.
I mean, I can't think in any of maybe the last four or five projects where we've met ourclients and, you know, kind of discuss the brief and discuss the needs and wants.

(09:36):
More often than not, I think there has been a move away from that.
A lot of it really is actually maybe those homeowners have visited.
a friend's house or a cousin or someone who's done work on their house and they seesometimes the impact and the glare and the overheating of these houses and the way we're
constructing our buildings now.

(09:59):
Everything is so airtight and hot and our summers are getting warmer.
So really it's such a consideration about how you do access the rear of your house and howyou treat the facade of your building, particularly
where it seems like the obvious move to do a wall-to-wall, floor-to-ceiling slider.

(10:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
And out of curiosity, what other shifts are you seeing when people come to you and theygive you their brief?
Are you seeing a shift away from open plan living and needing different spaces?
Because I see you still do quite a lot of that.
think there's, I suppose there's a little bit of a shift.
I definitely think the glass box extension is gone, you know, and there is, I suppose morespaces to be used for different, you know, at different times of the day for different

(10:55):
purposes.
So obviously the home office is a big one.
I mean, like in terms of your open plan, I think,
the kitchen and dining being connected would be something that I would always try andachieve.
Even if, you know, a client came to me and said, I don't want any open plan.

(11:16):
I want it all to be separate.
I suppose they just work hand in hand.
So I can't really see how the separate dining room is maybe ever a good idea.
I don't know, but yeah, I think it's all about, you know, and again, joinery from Binta, ahuge amount of those conversations and.
instead of having an obvious set of double doors that is, you know, they're hinged andthen they create hazards for or blockage for furniture.

(11:44):
It's about maybe creating these kind of joinery or bookcase walls that have, you know,secret doors inside them.
So concealing the methods of closing off spaces, I think is also something that, you know,is important.
But yeah, there probably is a little bit of a move, I think, towards that broken planmodel.
m

(12:04):
What else?
eh Yeah, I home offices is another one.
And it's very personal whether people want to have them in the living space or as acompletely separate room.
And the luxury maybe always isn't there for a separate room.
I think the big change I'm seeing, and it's probably a sign of the times, is the size ofthe extensions that we're designing and even the size of the houses has reduced massively.

(12:31):
ah
I mean, it's probably not a trend that we all want to be going down that road, but it'sreally, it's crazy to think about even the layout and the houses that we maybe were
putting in for planning permission five years ago, you know, versus now.
And now I think everybody just needs to be tighter with their budget and it's leading to amaximizing of existing house space and footprints and then maybe less.

(13:02):
on new builds, especially with renovation.
Yeah, I think this is a topic I keep hearing come up no matter the guest.
And when we were chatting before, you were talking about how a lot of times people mightcome to you when they've bought a property already, and you have to be the one to educate
them on what it's really going to cost and how long it's going to take to renovate.

(13:27):
that's probably a big part of it when people first come to you and do the brief.
And maybe do you have to scale back?
size of extension and redesign, like help them tailor back from their dream.
Yeah.
I look, think this was always something that might have, uh, would have been the casebefore even costs would have spiraled, uh, know, pre-pandemic or the pre-pandemic in

(13:51):
pre-pandemic, uh, we would have also had maybe, um, homeowners come to us who just assumedthat they needed all of this extra space and really didn't really know what was going to
happen with all of the existing footprint of the house.
So a lot of conversations would have, um,
come out of that where actually we would have advised, well, let's maximize what you have.

(14:14):
You don't really need to add this double story extension when you have two front roomsthat could be usable for a bedroom or a second living room and that kind of thing.
So I think that, sorry, I finally lost my train of thought a little bit on that one,sorry.
Yeah, I think it's always part of the architect's job is to help people reconsider evenwhat they think are their most important criteria and what they have their sights set on

(14:45):
because if it can be done in a more clever way, that's really what architects are for.
And a lot of times people are like, do I need an architect for this job?
I know what I want.
I want to do the maximum extension I can do without going for planning and I want this,this and this.
And I'm like, yes, you need an architect.
Why?
Because you might not need that.

(15:06):
Yeah, that's it.
I know.
And the assumption is that we're going to just, you know, it becomes kind of a personalproject for us and we want to put our own stamp on it and we want to create the biggest,
boldest solution possible that's going to cost the most amount of money.
uh really, when I work with renovation, I find the existing house the most interestingpart and it's about, you know, creating

(15:34):
clever ways to kind of modify or reconfigure existing spaces.
And I think sometimes you get the best outcome when you're doing like a seriousreconfiguration uh of an existing house.
And also if you're part of a row of houses that all have that same model, then you'recreating something completely different to all of your neighbors, which is pretty unique

(15:55):
in itself before you even add an extension to the rear.
Yeah, and I think that is a perfect segue for you to tell us a little bit about some ofyour projects.
feel like what you have kind of become known for is for taking the ordinary and transport,putting it, making it look like unrecognizable, kind of like the the pink house extension
and two other projects that I see here on your Instagram, the the moody black clad, twostory extension to the bungalow, and then the project that you just won the awards for.

(16:26):
So do you want to tell me about uh
any of those.
Sure, well I suppose I'll start with the pink house.
It's four years ago now that we started it.
But yeah, so really it was a typical semi-detached suburb, suburban home in South Dublinand in an estate it hadn't ever been touched, I think, or extended before.

(16:56):
And the layout really was your front and your rear living room, your small pokey kitchento the rear, and then upstairs two generous bedrooms and a bathroom and then garage to the
side.
So uh Ciara and Richie, our lovely clients who have spoken on this podcast before, theygot in touch.

(17:17):
They had bought the house uh pretty recently and had moved in.
Funnily enough, was actually one of the first things they said when I met them was thatthey didn't want the box at the back of the house was their number one demand, I suppose.
I think, you know, we would have spent a bit of time getting to know each other.

(17:41):
nd I got a sense very quickly that they had, you know, a person, a personality.
They had a real interest in design.
even though their background wasn't in design at all, but they were incredibly interestedin design.
They were well-traveled and they were very clear with me that they wanted something reallyinteresting and something that maybe wasn't the typical extension that you'd see in

(18:08):
Dublin.
So they also brought a picture of a pink front door, which they claimed that I kind oftook that and went a bit wild, but really there was, I mean, there was...
There was more than just the pink door that gave us the results of the pink extension.
mean, they had spoken about a shower that they had, the showering space they had been inin Morocco and how they wanted to emulate the feeling of this kind of cave-like shower

(18:37):
with sparkly lights, which we did in the end in their bathroom.
But I suppose for us as a studio, we were looking at, okay, they've been to Morocco and...
We kind of went down this rabbit hole then of looking at that kind of the kind of use ofcolor in Morocco and that kind of earthy, the earthy tones.

(18:57):
And then I came across a couple of really gorgeous pieces of architecture, one by LouisBaragon, who was an architect.
this is a piece from, I suppose, mid-century in Mexico.
And then the Neuendorf House, which is a beautiful pink concrete.
house in Mallorca And I suppose I was inspired by a lot of these tones.

(19:23):
really when it came to presenting the aesthetic, we were obviously upgrading the house.
We were adding an extension on ground floor, creating an open plan space.
And then we brought to the table and I basically presented this idea of using a pinkconcrete on the back of the house.

(19:43):
And uh they
surprisingly loved it.
And I suppose the references I had really, mean, beautiful blue skies and I suppose theywere probably slightly confused.
And I always say on all of our projects, like we'd have design rules about context andabout, you know, the house has to fit in the context of where it is.

(20:07):
So really what we did in a very subtle way was we added this brick plinth.
to the rear of the extension, which forms this sort of window seat between the canopysection and the rear.
And that brick, I suppose, is giving a little bit of the Irishness.
And red brick is all over Dublin.
So I suppose in a way, we're kind of grinding it with this more common materiality andthen having a little bit of fun then with the rest of the color.

(20:35):
So that's, I suppose, a snapshot into that project.
And then again,
feeding that back in, like we took that pink and brought it into some of the interiorfinishes.
So the kind of mosaic tiling in the hallway, the front door, they did get their pink frontdoor in the end, which was good.

(20:55):
And then we also did sort of a pink island to kind of match the extension with these sortof angles and splays in it to create the sort of seating space within the island.
So it was a super fun.
fun project to work on and they were the dream client.
I hope they've said the same about me on their podcast.

(21:20):
No, it was, suppose this for all of our projects really.
mean, we really go on a journey with our clients and we try and we never know where we'regoing to end up when we start.
So when we meet them in that first meeting and discuss the brief and discuss their likesand their dislikes.
we really don't have any preconceptions about where we think it's going to go.

(21:43):
And that's for all of our work, really.
Like we don't want to be known for having a very particular style.
Even though we would have, let's say, design rules that we would apply to all of ourprojects.
It's really about uh uncovering maybe the client's personality a little bit.
And I'm kind of going from there, really.

(22:06):
Yeah, it's about, I think your style is maybe just doing something unexpected, but they'revery different in the way you do it.
That's really interesting.
I love that you, that whole journey from the Morocco to then how do you ground that to theIrish context.

(22:26):
I suppose that's the thing.
Sometimes people are like, oh, like, especially if they're from different countries or ifthey've lived abroad.
Like, really like this thing of like Australian architecture or like, I spent a lot oftime in India and people don't know how to bring something in without it being like kind
of cliched.
And I think it's really good to see like, okay, how does an architect do it?

(22:49):
Okay, maybe what are some of the materials that are at the front of the house?
Because the house front facade has some of that classic red brick with the render aboveit.
So you kind of borrowed from that and then you weave that through the interiors have thered brick as well.
So I think that's a really good lesson for people to be like, you can do somethingcompletely different that's borrowed from another culture m and apply it to a semi-D.

(23:16):
You just have um to play with it a little bit and fit it in.
Absolutely, think that's it completely.
I think if it was just maybe a carbon copy of an architecture from a different countryjust plunked into this suburban context, it would seem very gimmicky.

(23:38):
really, the materials that maybe are, if you're looking at using an interesting materialthat maybe you've seen abroad or maybe an interesting cladding that.
even you're importing or bringing in from a different country and let's say your localbuilder doesn't know how to use it or it seems kind of unusual.
I think really it's obviously understanding how is it suitable, first of all.

(24:03):
And this was, know, this conversation came up as well when we were picking the render forthis extension, like we would have worked with a really skilled contractor who put
together
a load of samples for us.
And then we were able to see, you know, over the course of a couple of weeks, how theylooked in different, you know, how it looked in different light and, you know, how it was

(24:29):
going to really work in the context.
And yeah, I think it is important, like with that brick plinth to, to sort of feed or tieit in with maybe something that is more suitable in the context.
And yes, for us, the brick was at the front base of the house.
which we actually kind of converted our garage and extended and created a cinema room inwhat was the garage.

(24:53):
And just really, we were very sympathetic at the front of the house that it almost makesthe rear even more unexpected.
To the front, really, aside from a new front door, it's pretty much as it was except thebrick has been repointed, it's all been cleaned up and then the dash was kept, which was
great.

(25:14):
I love Pebble Dash.
think if it's cleaned up and it's painted and it's having its moment again, there's a lotof rough dash new builds going on around the place.
it's lovely to, I think for the front of a house, it's always lovely to retain thecharacter to a point and then have your fun in the back.
But yeah, grind it, give it some kind of context.

(25:36):
Don't go, I suppose, too different with the style.
But it's tricky.
There's no rules for these things, you know?
No, absolutely.
And you also have like, like the way you splayed even the extension.
Was that done like for to capture light in a certain way, like all the shapes around it?
So yeah, started at the first play that we designed would have been on the floor plan.

(25:59):
So here, and Richie actually might have touched on this in there when they spoke aboutbuying the house and the garden and their garden was on a, the house was on a bend.
So they ended up with this garden that it was really interesting in that it has a diagonalbend at the end of the garden.
And how it orientates the house in a way is that.

(26:20):
you're not looking directly into somebody else's back garden behind you.
And it's a very built up estate.
So the first thing I said when I got to the house was, God, you can see a lot of sky andnot too many houses.
So we, in a way, orientated the living room slider to face the direction that wasn'treally facing any houses as such.

(26:44):
So that set off that diagonal on the plan.
which then set off, I suppose the other diagonal let's say where the display is.
And then naturally when we looked at the elevation of the rear then, I mean, they havegood light, the orientation is great.
So it gave us an opportunity to create a canopy which wouldn't darken your living, butalso then, yeah, open up the light that's getting into your dining space.

(27:14):
But no, was kind of a play on diagonals really that we were looking at, I suppose, in 2Dand 3D.
But it was all influenced by the garden shape, really.
And it's something that probably a lot of architects do and then nobody who ever visitsthe house would even notice.
And then your beautiful concept might be completely ignored, but I know it's there.

(27:39):
Well, people enjoy it, but they don't necessarily know, like, they're like, why does thisfeel so good?
Why is this perfectly shaded, but not dark?
And it's like, because an architect spent a lot of time on it.
Yeah.
And you know, it's also like this would be the main type of work that we do is rearextensions.
like sometimes, you know, and especially when a homeowner is brief, typically is quitesimilar.

(28:04):
You know, everybody wants the kitchen living, dining to the rear.
So you're kept on your toes trying to come up with interesting solutions for a rearextension, particularly when you have, you know, a limited
wall to wall in a garden, like you might have something between let's say five meters tonine meters of an extension.
And then you're limited within that to a portion of glazing and a portion of cladding.

(28:30):
So it can take time to figure that out and keep it fresh and keep it interesting.
So sometimes those moves where you're bringing in angles, just it keeps you away frommaybe the kind of classic, you know, right angled box.
and that you can see quite a lot of.
Yeah, and I think like living in Ireland, Ireland and the UK have such a specific designlanguage because of the way the cities and the suburbs were developed.

(28:59):
Like, I didn't know what an extension was until I moved to Ireland.
Like, they're just not even called that.
No, like, it's not the language they use.
I lived in Switzerland, Argentina, and New York.
And I guess because the concept of the terrace is so much more of
of a UK Ireland thing, suppose.

(29:20):
Like know they exist in Switzerland too, but the architecture is just a bit different.
And then when I started researching design things, whether it was from my own house ordifferent places I've worked, a lot of the language you're referencing is like, okay,
these two countries, and you can very easily just like copy a trope of like, okay, yeah,there's this one, there's this style, and then there's that style.

(29:45):
And these are the kind of extensions you can do.
but I like that you're just kind of proposing people can rip that up a little and thinkoutside the box because you are limited in the footprint and the limitations.
So what other dimensions and volumes can you go in?

(30:06):
And I think that brings us perfectly to Griffith Avenue, but yeah, sorry, go ahead.
I was just going to say, mean, one thing that really frustrates me and infuriates me is alot of the new builds developments that you see now, they're almost designed that
everybody will have to extend them at some point.
And it's a shame.

(30:27):
mean, I have visited friends who bought new builds and the way the floor plan is laid outis it's small because it needs to suit like a three story house, right?
Because everything is going.
taller now and the layout on the ground floor tends to have the stairs in the center ofthe ground floor.
So it's separating your living and your kitchen dining, which in this day and age, mostpeople who are buying those houses might be first time buyers.

(30:55):
They might be of a certain generation that wants to have open plan.
And the problem is that it's setting off what will end up maybe just being, and look, anextension on a seventies house like there,
there for whatever 50, 60 years and it's a solution to gain more space.
I think with the new builds, there should be a better, you know, there should be more newbuilds being built that suit that open plan model.

(31:24):
I don't think it's being done enough and maybe the architects that are working on themaren't considering the types of people who are buying those houses.
But really, you know, a lot of friends of mine who are buying these houses,
would say, I'll get you in a couple of years now to do the extension.
And it just seems like it's, you know, that shouldn't be the case really.

(31:44):
should be done right the first time.
That's another day's conversation, I suppose.
Absolutely.
And tell me about the Griffith Avenue project because as I did some research before westarted talking, like when I see the photos of what was demolished or where the house is

(32:06):
sliced open, like it's unrecognizable.
So what kind of house was it?
What was the brief here?
Yeah, so the house is on Griffith Avenue and it's a two-story semi-detached house with twobeautiful bay windows on the front.
Would have been built, say, in the 50s and it had been extended over the years.

(32:32):
So it would have had a kitchen extension added and a conservatory to the rear.
And then it had a side garage, was quite set back actually from the front facade of thehouse.
And the front doors of all of these houses, there's a row of, you know, maybe nine or 10of these house types on a very long, mean, Griffith Avenue is pretty long.

(32:54):
And there, all the front doors are on the gable of the house.
So then I suppose when our clients came to us, they had just relocated from the US.
They had bought the house and really their brief was,
to do a full upgrading of the house.

(33:14):
And they wanted their open plan, living kitchen, dining to the rear, a home office,because this was kind of pandemic and we could see kind of where things were going to go
with the work from home.
they, I suppose, spoke a lot about how they had lived in the States and how barbecuing andcooking and entertaining was a huge part of their life with their family.

(33:38):
So really they wanted to...
lots of space to entertain both inside and outside the house.
They also had a requirement for a guest suite.
So somebody where a visiting, you know, somewhere where a visiting family could come andstay, that could be, I suppose, sectioned off from the rest of the house and more private.

(33:59):
And that was really it then.
So I suppose the first thing that we did was we knocked down the
all of the extensions that had been added over the years and really pared it back to whatit was originally, the kind of original uh house, which actually was quite small in size.

(34:21):
So we needed quite a lot of extension on ground floor to accommodate all of theserequirements of their brief.
And the first thing we actually looked at was the location of the front door.
So where the door was, I suppose, was
pretty uninviting and it was quite tight to get in and you were no sooner in the door thanthe stairs were there and it felt very cramped.

(34:43):
And because you were arriving maybe in the middle of the plan, it was actually quitedifficult to circulate the house and it was just, it was a confusing layout.
And so we moved the front door to a new excited extension so that it actually faced theavenue, which I thought allowed the nicer kind of more welcoming entrance to the house.

(35:04):
And so we created a new side extension that then would kind of guide you back to a newextension at the rear.
The front two reception rooms of the existing house were really nice proportions, lovelyhigh ceilings.
They had these lovely interconnecting doors between them, pocket doors that we reallyliked and they were in good nick.

(35:27):
And uh one of the rooms has this gorgeous bay window.
So for us,
that seems like the most suitable location for the guest suite with these kind of tworooms.
And I suppose we really wanted to kind of make it feel quite like a hotel.
So, you know, the kind of finished product really of that is lots of, know, consideredjoinery and nice kind of hotel type lighting and bedside tables.

(35:53):
uh you know, we went really dark with the colors on the walls and the ceiling and, youknow, it feels kind of...
It feels like fancy.
If you're going to stay in someone's house, this would be the lovely, the nicest guestroom you could stay in.
Yeah, it was lovely.
Yeah.
And then the rear of the existing house then, we kind of accommodated the utilitydownstairs, toilet, stairs to upstairs, and then a home office.

(36:25):
And the hallway as well, just to the side, this new hallway.
Instead of having all the doors into these existing rooms, we actually clad one side ofour hall with this really nice bespoke fluted cladding.
So all of your doors are concealed.
And then to mirror with that, then, we created an open exposed ceiling with a roof lightthat runs the full length of your hall.

(36:54):
You get this really nice play with light and shade in that space.
And also it kind of allowed us to go very solid with the front door from a privacy pointof view.
Like the avenue is pretty busy with traffic and buses and all of that.
So it kind of allows a lot of light to come in without necessarily needing to come in thefront door.

(37:16):
To the rear then, the garden is north facing.
we were into the conversation about, how do we bring light in and how do we create uh anoutside space for the clients without it being too dark?
You we wanted to have some of it covered, some of it open so that it could be used allyear round, but then the risk is that you're just blocking more light.

(37:42):
So we created a courtyard space.
So really our extension actually wraps around a courtyard, which
brings light into the back of the existing house.
And that's where our home office is.
And then we have, you know, a living area and then beyond that, the kitchen and dining,which then open out to kind of an outside terrace space at the rear of the house.

(38:09):
And then we just have lots of roof lights really that bring light in.
So I suppose it's trying to achieve a very uniform light across the room and it's
It's quite a deep extension and then it's made deeper again by this kind of outdoor room.
So really it was about kind of getting light into like the deepest parts of the plan withroof lights and a courtyard.

(38:32):
And that's kind of how the overall scheme works.
And tell me, what about the big circle?
Yes.
Yeah, that's kind of our little our gesture, I suppose.
And yeah, I think really the garden was in amazing condition.
It was really mature.

(38:53):
And and really, you know, the first time I went there, I said to the clients, well, youdon't really need a landscaping budget.
And it's perfect.
So.
Again, you know, we have the conversation about, how are we accessing this outdoorterrace?
and how do we make it interesting from the kitchen space and then how does it work fromthe dining?

(39:16):
So I suppose the dining seems like the best solution to have the big slider.
So we have a lovely triple slider there that kind of lines up with our dining table.
Then from our kitchen, ah it was about creating and kind of blurring the lines reallybetween an indoor kitchen and an outdoor kitchen.
So...

(39:37):
Years ago, I had visited this amazing cafe in New Zealand and they had one of thesegorgeous sort of indoor outdoor serveries.
And they actually, the way they had done the window, which we wanted to do was the kind ofhinged up almost as if it's like an ice cream shop.
We really wanted to do that, but it was just trying to find a window supplier that wouldbe able to do that weight.

(40:03):
And so in the end, we have this beautiful bi-fold that
gives you that kind of countertop, I suppose, that runs out.
And that forms our covered kitchen space.
So then at the end of that covered space, we have this wall, which needs to support theoverhang or the covered section.

(40:24):
And I think we chatted about, we're going to maybe use brick, but we're going to use avery pale brick.
If brick is at the front of the house, it's
in the area, we'll use brick, but we will create like a different perspective of thegarden from your kitchen.

(40:44):
So when you're standing at your kitchen sink or you're out in your outdoor kitchen, thatyou could kind of get like almost like a camera view of green, of this really mature green
lush garden.
And I mean, I came across like I'm always inspired by I love everything that's done inAustralia and New Zealand.

(41:04):
It's one of my
favorite, you know, like, I mean, I don't know if you know the local projects that, yeah,I'm just, I'm obsessed with that, I suppose, resource and a lot of the outdoor spaces that
we were looking at were, happened to be based in Australia where obviously they do a lotof outdoor dining and outdoor living.

(41:31):
So, you know, came across some interesting ways to create
covered spaces that weren't just like a retractable pergola, that was something a bit morearchitectural and solid and eh more of a bold statement.
And yeah, that was it with the brick.
And then to balance that, we have this chimney, so this brick outdoor chimney that againkind of defines the perimeter of your terrace and kind of uh frames it, I suppose, as this

(42:04):
outdoor room.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
And I can actually see now that you mentioned the clients were American, where in the USdid they live?
I think they were in tech.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
I can see it a little bit.
know you, can see the Australian New Zealand inspiration now too, that you say it with thewhitewashed brick.

(42:27):
uh But also there is something quite mid-century American feeling about it, you know?
You could see, like there's something about like the levels that it creates when you lookat it, the sliders and then the different plane of the big cutout.
It does feel,
it feels like you've almost created an outdoor conversation bit or something like that,something I feel very mid-century.

(42:51):
Okay, I wish I had thought of that first.
That's actually, and funnily enough, were, so the living space, if you can see any of thepictures on the Instagram, this was a really considered space in the overall open plan
because it's quite unusual when you come into an open plan space that you have to walkpast your living to get kind of beyond that to, let's say, your kitchen and dining, like

(43:18):
in a lot of open plan.
usually maybe your living is kind of one of the last places you go or else it's justkitchen dining.
So it was about really trying to create a bit of a threshold between the living and thenyour circulation.
But this all started because we actually wanted to do the conversation pitch on thisproject, but the planning conditions kind of put an end to it, unfortunately.

(43:49):
we were quite restricted with height in our planning.
And initially the plan was to kind of come in to a living space that would be sunken andthen you would step up to the kitchen dining on a different level.
Unfortunately, we were restricted with height.
So we had to bring down the kitchen dining.

(44:11):
So it meant just this kind of one level.
But we tried to achieve the same effect by creating this kind of perimeter joinery.
that runs around the back of our kind of sofa space.
And again, the ceiling detail and the living, it's kind of, I suppose the idea was kind ofcreating this like cube of materiality and joinery that zones it, but also gives it a

(44:37):
coziness that's kind of separate to, let's say, your kind of kitchen and dining aesthetic.
Yeah, I actually thought it was a conversation pit when I first glanced through thephotos.
And then you're like, wait, is it?
no, it's on.
Well, because the back, because these low level units that wrap around the back of thesofa conceal where the feet of the sofa is, and it's a low contemporary sofa anyway, you'd

(45:00):
kind of have to like go and check on the other side to see, is it sunken?
Is it not?
So I think that works really well.
And tell me, is the sofa bespoke?
Did you make it around the joinery?
Did the joinery...
Yeah, we got it made with spoke by Finline Furniture.
They were fantastic to work with and really we wanted to create it.

(45:22):
Actually, the living isn't a huge space at all compared to the dining and the kitchen arequite generous and the living is, you know, it's a generous size, but really it was, we
knew that we would only end up with one big piece of furniture and that would be, youknow, wrapping around the kind of edges of this space.

(45:42):
we worked with Finline and got, I suppose, the maximum amount of seating we could for thespace.
So it's a you, it's a you couch really.
And then to the right hand side, like let's say when you're looking at your TV and yourjoinery, that's where the courtyard is.
So there's beautiful light coming in there and you can access that.

(46:04):
It's a nice, courtyard space, but you're getting great light in there too, without beinganything that's kind of direct.
and south light as well.
it's nice to sit and relax and watch TV and there isn't any glare.
So yeah, it's been pretty successful.
And that door that we have off the living space that forms part of that TV joinery, thatdoor brings you in then to the home office.

(46:32):
So we kind of made a move there to, I suppose, reduce the amount of hallways andcirculation in the house to have kind of an access.
through from the just from the living space.
So when you're taking a break from working, but you're kind of right out into kind of thewhole, then the main part of the house versus, you know, being tucked away at the front on

(46:53):
your own.
So, yeah, it worked out pretty well.
Again, it kind of saved having to have another obvious door in your your open plan.
Yeah, yeah, because when I first look at the photos, it just feels like you're you'restraight into the extension.
Feels like you're you go from the street to the extent because everything's kind of tuckedaway behind the the fluted hallway you talked about and then this wall of oak joinery.

(47:18):
One last thing on Griffith Avenue, I think something it does really well is there's a lotof different materials, actually.
And there's a few different tones of uh timber.
But sometimes I think it's hard
achieve a minimalist cohesive look, I think the easiest way to do it is to choose like twomaterials and only use that.
It's kind like the shortcut.

(47:39):
The harder thing to do is to have a variety of them that still glow together.
So how did you do that?
And where did this the white brick come from?
Because that's, think, what's one of the things that stands out the most about theproject.
Yeah, think I suppose we decided that we would use it on the exterior rear on both groundfloor and first floor.

(48:01):
And I didn't mention, but there's a first floor extension as well that has a master suitein it.
But really, that was the starting point, looking at the materiality that we were going touse on the rear.
And then we did bring that in through the entire
right inside wall of your open plan.
it runs alongside the dining and then back to the main hallway, entrance hallway of thehouse.

(48:29):
Really, I suppose it was going to be a big chunk of wall that would either be, you know,potentially place for art and it still could be.
But we felt like it was an obvious move to kind of bring that materiality.
inside and it balances quite nicely with the joinery that's all happening, let's say onthe opposite walls.

(48:51):
In terms of limiting materiality, yeah, it's tricky to, I mean, trying to stick to twomaterials, I think is hard and actually it might, you know, it might have given enough
depth.
We wanted to use polished concrete because of how open plants really the houses and even

(49:13):
the hallway is a glass door to the hallway.
So that really is almost feels like part of the space.
And again, the outside terrace is very much visible and part of the inside.
So the polished concrete is just kind of a perfect solution to run across all of thespaces.
So that was our flooring decision.

(49:35):
Our joinery then is all very similar.
It's kind of an oak veneer that we worked into the kitchen.
uh
the living room joinery and into some of the furniture as well, the dining furniture.
And we did, I suppose, limit the colors that we used.
Not throughout the house, I mean, upstairs, there's different tones and different paintcolors, but downstairs, I think I always had green in my head.

(50:00):
I don't know if it's because of Griffith Avenue.
The garden to the rear being so beautiful and mature.
And then also Griffith Avenue is like,
this beautiful kind of tree lined avenue.
I think it's one of the longest avenues in Europe, it's, know, it's pretty well known partof Dublin and it has these lovely mature trees.
And I think there was always this part of, okay, let's have green and let's bring thatextra layer of, you know, kind of interest and depth.

(50:29):
So what we did with a lot of the joinery, you'll see in some of the images is that we didthis kind of backing in green.
So, you know, we had initially proposed using kind of a green leather.
to use at the rear of all of these kind of open cab storage units and open shelving.

(50:50):
Unfortunately, the green leather didn't pass the QS test.
That was cut, but we just painted it.
It was like they were painted, like spray.
But they really, know, even where we have our sliding doors, where we can close off ourTV.

(51:11):
When that's opened, you get this lovely burst of color.
And the is that beautiful pale pea green.
Yeah, it was they they had their eyes on it on a one of these gorgeous rain, you featureranges and, you know, they were very much led by us on the color.
So obvious move was green.

(51:33):
And yeah, it was just picked up in a lot of the decisions like their master ensuite.
We did a full kind of green tiles bathroom as well.
And so really, I suppose it was the concrete and the brick, which they both have quite alot of
tone and texture in them.
they work really well together.
And then, you know, the oak and the green kind of give it maybe a softness and a warmth,because I think, let's say you were being really strict on your finishes and, you you went

(52:05):
with, let's say, a concrete, a brick, and then like a white for all of your joinery.
I think it could feel very cold to be in that kind of a space.
having a nice kind of deep color, like a deep green and having this joinery, I think itallows you maybe to bring in some of those kind of architectural finishes that you might
be slightly scared of or worried that they might feel cozy.

(52:30):
And so it's about, think, balancing the two quite well.
And I mean, we've done a couple of projects now where we have brought in that brickinternally.
And it's honestly just the loveliest feeling being like we did it in the pink house in thedining area.
And it adds this really lovely lived in feeling.
And it gives a feeling that like this house could have been built 30 years ago in terms ofhow it feels inside.

(52:57):
I think I always say to people like if you can keep your, if your paint, if you'repainting costs or the painter's bill is low, that's a good thing because the less maybe
walls that you're painting and if you're bringing in different materials instead ofpainting a plastered wall, think that's
It's probably a sign of a good uh design.
Yeah, that's true.

(53:17):
And I think a lot of people wouldn't think to bring certain materials and wrap them aroundin that kind of way.
If they're doing this by themselves or if they, you know, if they're, you know, a lot ofpeople just get architects to do up the drawings for planning and then do the rest
themselves.
And it's hard to get the inspiration for cladding a ceiling or, you know, bringing ajoinery wall and wrapping it around another space.

(53:43):
without getting that kind of uh expert design eye.
But I think it is what makes the difference between something that can feel like whatpeople think stereotypically negatively of an architect, like really cold and like sharp
and sculptural.
um But I think where you can bring that into something that actually feels comfortable andlived in is like, you you've got two directions of ceiling slats.

(54:06):
You've got the timber chunky stairs.
You've got the timber uh kitchen and the
Beautiful stone in the kitchen.
What is that?
it's actually a porcelain, but it's a travertine.
It's a travertine porcelain, really.
And we looked at a ton of different options for that.

(54:32):
And really it came down to we wanted something really that kind of tied in with the brick.
Yeah.
That was definitely somewhere where we didn't want to bring in another finish.
That's the thing, you don't want all these elements to compete too much.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So it had to be something that was very home, paired back, neutral.
Um, because we were also bringing it in, in a very bold way with the extractor.

(54:56):
Um, so because of the range that the clients wanted to have, we knew we had to have anextractor.
And I suppose initially we were like, Oh, we don't, you know, nobody really likesextractors anymore.
Um, but so then look, okay, we have to have an extractor and you know, it's quite a bigkitchen.
Like there's a lot of wood.
Um, so it, it made sense.

(55:18):
to maybe look at cladding, doing your full flashback, not bringing in any overhead upthere because there was plenty of cabinet space to either side.
And also we have kind of an L and a really generous island.
So we just made the decision to clad it, which was a bit of back and forth with thesupplier and the joiner and getting all of the details right.

(55:44):
But yeah, the result was amazing and it hasn't fallen down yet.
Yeah, it's beautiful.
And because it doesn't have like the veining of marble, it goes a little bit better evenwith the terrazzo floor and with the grain of the wood.
And it's like perpendicular to the grain of the wood.
So it's really nice but subtle.

(56:05):
Like you look at it you're like, is that timber or is it, what is it?
know, it limestone?
It's gorgeous.
Yeah.
And the travertine again ties in with, it's a bit mid-century-ish too.
Yeah, it's a really gorgeous, I think my mind has been opened up to the world ofporcelain, using porcelain as a finish.

(56:26):
I mean, there's a huge amount of options now.
And obviously, I think there's something amazing about using natural stone.
But I think for a lot of people, like the practicalities of it and just the worry that,you know, they might want to, or they just don't want to have to have any maintenance or
staining and all of that.
I think there's pretty good options now.

(56:46):
seems to be a pretty hard-wearing material.
It's quite nice to use.
Yeah, I would definitely be more of a patina and natural material kind of gal.
But what I really appreciate is you would never be able to, well, you might, but it wouldbe really expensive to like not have like, there's no joints, you know, it's just so like,

(57:07):
makes the kitchen look so clean.
And it would just be so expensive to do that in a real travertine you've achieved andlike, maybe you'd only be able to have an upstand.
And then like, it would be plastered wall and then
like it would just not have the same impact.
So you can use maybe the more manmade material sometimes to really achieve that lookwithout compromising on it.

(57:32):
Yeah, yeah, no, was it was good to use and I suppose the weight of it.
mean, I don't know the weight of different of marbles versus porcelain, but being able toclad the extractor was it was a big thing.
And it's it's really the decision was made that we kind of wanted the stone very much todisappear in a way.
And there was a lot going on with finishes, you know, with the flooring even itself, theconcrete is heavily exposed.

(57:56):
So there's a huge amount of texture and tone in the floor itself.
and then this big feature brick wall.
So yeah, and some projects we go all out with stone or we want to do something reallyinteresting and that becomes the statement.
But here it wasn't really, even I think one of the statements of this space is that viewfrom the kitchen sink, out to your garden, that kind of snapshot.

(58:24):
I think if it was my house and home of the year, that would be the favorite spot.
Yeah, it's awesome.
And I think it's a really good lesson um is also the hierarchy of what is the hero hereand not trying to have everything compete.
Even just looking at the lighting, it's really paired back because you have so much goingon because you're trying to bring the eye to the garden.

(58:49):
I was like, what is the lighting?
I just had to look back at it.
So I think you've done a really good job there.
And I think that's something people need to remember because sometimes people are like,
I love this kind of light and I love this kind of range and I love this kind of marble.
But if you put it all together, it could just be they can detract from each other, really.
Yeah, it's so hard.

(59:11):
I lighting, I mean, it's also such an important consideration.
And, you know, we love taking time on every project to get that right.
And that is always the conversation we will have with lot of clients who are maybe lookingat fittings themselves and then they bring them to the table.
And, you know, the I think the risk sometimes is having too many features, feature, toomuch feature lighting going on in an open plan.

(59:36):
So it can just
look really busy or then if you're trying to match all of the fittings, that also lookswrong.
So yeah, this project, think, we exposed our ceiling across the kitchen dining.
So it's all exposed joists.
And we just went really simple with like kind of a cylindrical, calm down light throughoutthere.

(01:00:00):
And then, yeah, like your really simple bar light over the island.
And I mean, at nighttime, obviously it's a nice balanced warm light, too much overhead.
We use a lot of wall lights on the brick wall as well, but all very simple, like whitekind of curved plaster lights.

(01:00:25):
just, yeah, it didn't feel like the project to be bringing in too many, you know,statement chandeliers or pendants.
So uh it's all very soft.
and very neutral.
And I think in the front of the house, like where we've done the guest suite, I probablydon't have a huge amount of the images on the Instagram, but there's a feeling with the

(01:00:49):
guest suite that it's a little bit more of its time, know, so we kept a lot of thefeatures of the original house and those rooms, the bay windows, the pocket doors, and we
kind of ran with that then when it came to the interior.
So, you know, more kind of statement chandeliers and, you know,
like antique furniture and that kind of thing.

(01:01:09):
it's a nice balance there.
And I think it's always nice to do that on these projects to have maybe one room.
And it was the same in the pink house, know, their front room is very mid-century with thefurniture and the choices that they picked with that.
Yeah, so it is nice to have a bit of a nod, I think, to the original.

(01:01:29):
Yeah, because these houses on Griffith Avenue, they're kind of 1930s inspired, right?
With the bay windows and the brick.
Yeah, yeah, I think, I mean, I assume it was all built at different times, but yeah, Ithink, I think that this house was 50s.
Some of them could have been earlier than that for sure.
Yeah.

(01:01:49):
Well, thanks so much for walking us through both of those projects.
And I think one of the reasons I really wanted to interview you today is a lot of peoplewho embark on the extension journey who may not be super design savvy, but they want
something beautiful.
I think you can fall into the trope when you're like, I like modern.

(01:02:10):
You can fall into this very minimalist, cold look.
And I think it's really good for people to see
different things and different approaches and play with materials and play with shapes.
What would you like people to kind of consider when they're embarking on this journey?
uh Other than hiring you, what can they do?

(01:02:32):
Yeah, well, look, I think a lot of people's kind of first port of call is looking atPinterest, right?
And looking at different online.
I mean, there's so many outlets now to get inspiration.
know, Instagram, I feel, is even taking over from Pinterest in terms of saving differentprojects and looking for, you know, something that you think is suitable.

(01:02:56):
I would say, I mean, one of the big kind of
The biggest advice I could give really is following trends when it comes to architectureis, you know, I think it's a big no-no and it can be really hard not to follow a trend and
what is trendy and what isn't and understanding that.

(01:03:17):
you know, architecture and doing a renovation and building a house or an extension, it's alot of money.
It's probably the most expensive amount of money you'll ever spend.
So I think it's...
it's maybe understanding what you're looking at and what you're interested in and whatyou're seeing on Pinterest.

(01:03:38):
And is there something that's maybe popping up quite a lot and that's probably somethingthat's maybe a little too trendy and might not stand the test of time.
But it's overwhelming.
It's completely overwhelming.
And to be honest, it's quite hard to give advice on how to navigate that.
Even for me,

(01:03:59):
doing a very small personal renovation project.
And it's very difficult even for me who's doing it all the time to kind of make decisionsand actually decide what is it that I want and what style am I trying to go with here?
But really I think how I go about that is I try and think about maybe places I've been,hotels I've stayed in, anywhere I've been that I feel calm and I feel the most relaxed and

(01:04:28):
I think that's always kind of a good starting point, whether you can share that with anarchitect or whether you're, you know, kind of embarking on it on your own.
But yeah, it's really hard to get overwhelmed.
I don't know how you avoid that really, because it's, you know, we're all addicted to ourphones and we're getting, you know, the minute you tell somebody you're renovating your

(01:04:49):
home, you're going to get targeted with, you know, a million different options foreverything.
So yeah, it's quite tricky.
Yeah, think, and I think it's a matter of collecting and editing also.
Like we, our own house project has taken way longer than we expected, but what that meantis the original idea I had for the kitchen.

(01:05:12):
When I investigated it further, I started seeing it everywhere.
And when I would see it, I was just starting to feel like, not only was it everywhere andI was like, oh, is it something I actually want?
Or is it just what I think is right because I'm seeing it everywhere?
and you start to train your eye for the thing you're studying.
Like right now we're working on landscape design and I'm paying attention to size and mixof external paving in a way I never had before.

(01:05:38):
Even walking down, walking through parks, walking around people's front yards, I'm lookingat curbs and the way the edge is finished on curbs and the way, like the tile they use.
And I'm just like, you just have to train your eye.
And I think the way you do that is like getting overwhelmed.
And then-
then pairing it back and being like, okay, what part of my initial instinct is perhaps Iwant to stick with?

(01:06:04):
What part of it is maybe not going to be...
I don't even like it three or six months later.
The reality is these projects take a long time, even small extensions or no extensions inmy case.
And I think what you walked through is a bit of permission to not just copy somethingbecause it's what's correct, but

(01:06:25):
just have a little bit of fun with it, right?
And I don't even think your approach is so, I wouldn't call your approach whimsical, butthe things you create are very bold, like you said.
And I don't think people want to be quirky necessarily, but they do want something unique.
And I think they need permission to do a bit of what you do.

(01:06:47):
Yeah, like even just to touch on the like we had a client a years ago who it was reallygreat because when we met him, we asked him, you know, a little bit about what he wanted
and we were compiling the brief and he actually shared with us a holiday home that he hadspent many years in with his family down the country.

(01:07:08):
And he told us basically that like he didn't want us to completely just like carbon copyit.
or to take too much inspiration.
But he basically said, look, this is where I go to my family when I'm on holidays fromwork.
I want to unwind.
I feel really relaxed here.
And I want my house to feel that same way.

(01:07:29):
I think that's really good starting point.
Because at the end of the day, that's the most important thing is how you feel in yourhouse.
As well as it has to reflect your personality.
And you have to be able to look around and feel like, it's like what you wear or what youput on every day.

(01:07:51):
You have to kind of have that same sense with how you furnish your home.
I think about how, really, I think the number one is how you feel.
And I'm applying that exact same mentality to my very small renovation that I'm working onthat I've been very secretive about.
I'll probably.
uh

(01:08:13):
A couple of years ago, and I would have put more of this on my Instagram, we bought ahouse in Clare and we kind of renovated it and turned it into an Airbnb.
And recently when we were looking at the finishes we're going to use on our renovation uphere, I was kind of designing this sort of bookcase joinery wall in this kind of deep

(01:08:35):
burgundy.
And then I was bringing in kind of another colorful aspect.
into some of the, you know, the stone in the island.
And then I really sat back and thought, OK, where do I feel the most calm and happy andwhere have I been that I haven't wanted to maybe change up a space or a tour?

(01:08:55):
And that's really the house we have in Clare.
it's very new.
Like, real kind of like, I would say it's very different to the style of the work that Ido in, you know, in the office.
It's very kind of pared back.
neutral, almost like kind of like a Hampton beach house.
uh But that's where I now maybe it's the setting and the fact that like we're near thesea, but the it's really, really neutral, like more so than anything I've ever done.

(01:09:22):
And I think for me, I'm trying to take that same kind of aesthetic and bring it to myhouse here because, you know, I think that is pretty important consideration, you know,
even though, you know, yeah, who knows what
exciting.
Yeah, no, it is.
is exciting.
But yeah, it's really tricky and you're the same.

(01:09:43):
You're renovating as well.
And I'm sure you're as overwhelmed with the decision making.
I think there's more pressure on us as designers when we're doing our own house becauseeverybody expects this, you know, the most amazing house you've ever built.
Yeah, or to be, like you say, to be synonymous with the style of what you do.
It be the portfolio centerpiece.

(01:10:04):
But like you said, you can't really control how a space makes you feel.
maybe for your personal home, when you're a designer, you actually want something that'smore pared back.
Or the opposite, maybe somebody wants something that's much more eclectic than the workthey do for other people.
And I think I love that advice of finding

(01:10:27):
how different spaces make you feel in studying that as well.
Yeah, and that's, you can only know that when you experience it, you know, so whether it'sin somebody else's house, in a hotel, in a restaurant.
And at the end of the day, if you're kind of making a decision between somewhere you'veexperienced in real life and an image on Pinterest, like you have to go with the one that

(01:10:48):
you're experiencing, you know.
But yeah, it's definitely tricky.
it's, you know, clients that would always say to me, how do you do this?
You know, how do you...
I'm, you know, I'm, you know, they'll say, I'm feeling overwhelmed.
I can't make my mind up on which style I want.
How do you do this every day?
And yeah, I don't know what the answer is.

(01:11:10):
I don't.
Yeah.
By a lot of editing.
Yeah, exactly.
is.
is editing and reviewing and kind of, yeah, editing it all down, really.
And it's something that we do as well in our projects.
We will try and have a lot of physical samples, even at that first design meeting, to kindof, I suppose, excite our clients in the kind of types of finishes that we're thinking,

(01:11:39):
even really early on at concept stage.
And we'll use those same samples and we'll hold onto them.
And then, you know, it is for us as well.
It's about editing them as we move through the project.
So it should really, yeah, it should be the same with your Pinterest board.
Instead of kind of adding to it, really you should be trying to take away or replace asyou go along.

(01:12:02):
Absolutely.
Well, thank you so much for walking us through that and giving us a little bird's eye viewinto how to create a unique contemporary space.
ah you know, even though these are houses that start out as your standard semi-D, you cantransform them completely and make them, you know, so bespoke, so unique to the different

(01:12:25):
families and their needs and uh just really beautiful.
So.
And also congrats again on the awards and that project.
And I hope that's going to be an inspiring journey for all.
And I hope people will hop onto the Instagram as they are listening to this episode tokind of see what we're talking about.
So if you want to share your account with us.

(01:12:46):
Yeah, it's Courtney McDonnell at underscore architect.
Yeah, and that's McDonnell MC.
MC.
uh
Yeah, not the fast food chain.
uh Amazing.
Thank you so much Courtney for your time and looking forward to seeing your own renovationnow.
That'll be something to look forward to.

(01:13:07):
thank you so much.
And thank you so much for this is an amazing podcast.
I absolutely eat design podcast.
And it's really nice to have somebody who's living in Dublin and promoting Irisharchitecture and design.
So keep up the good work.
Thank you, Courtney.
All right, talk soon.
you.