June 26, 2025 • 35 mins
Co-Host Jason Fierstein (https://mountaintoppodcast.com/settling) With 8 billion people in the world, how can so many of us end up settling for a woman we never really wanted to begin with? On the surface, it would seem it's all about lacking the self-esteem to believe we deserve what we want. But there's more to it than that. My guest is psychotherapist and counselor for men Jason Fierstein from Phoenix, AZ. So then, what is the psychology surrounding a guy who habitually settles? Has he bought into the mindset that women he wants are 'out of his league' and he'd better not try to 'punch above his weight'? As horrifying as it sounds, can lack of success with girls from an early age set us up for a lifetime of settling? One would think on the surface that if we believe we're settling for someone, then we must be granting her the feeling of having hit the jackpot. But Jason would tell you the reality is often very different...and extra unfortunate for everyone involved. And then there are those other weird kind of relationships where someone indeed feels like they've hit the jackpot when their partner has clearly settled, and it has nothing to do with looks at all. Is settling more common among 'Mr. Nice Guys'? What is the most common fear-based thought that traps men into a cycle of settling? Next, the ever-present question of 'emotional availability' came up yet again. Does that mean you're doomed to settle no matter what? I mean, is ANY dysfunctional relationship, for that matter, necessarily a situation where either one or both partners has settled? What are the actual concrete signs of settling? And wait until you hear what I believe is the most shocking sign of all. Finally--and importantly--how can we make sure never to settle ever again? The new EduMcKayTion Substack is often hilarious and always full of surprises: https://mountaintoppodcast.com/substack
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Live from the mist enshrouded mountaintop fortress that is X and Y communicationsheadquarters, you're listening to the world famous mountaintop podcast.
And now, here's your host, Scot McKay
All right, gentlemen, welcome to yet another episode of the world famous mountaintoppodcast.
As always, I am your host.
(00:25):
name is Scot McKay from X and Y communications.
You can find me on X on true social on Tik Tok and on YouTube at Scot McKay.
And you can find me on threads and on Instagram at real Scot McKay.
But avoid Threads.
It's terrible, guys.
The mountaintop podcast website is mountaintoppodcast.com.
(00:45):
And the Facebook group as always is the mountaintop summit on Facebook.
And guys, you need to join us there.
We are a group of men who are getting better with women and we want to see you there.
Our guest today is a first time guest on this podcast.
Although I remember distinctly interviewing him, man, it goes back probably a decade and ahalf.
(01:07):
He is a psychotherapist and a counselor for men from Phoenix, Arizona.
And the topic today is signs you are settling.
Jason Fierstein from Phoenix, Arizona.
Welcome, man.
Well, thanks, Scot.
Thanks for having me today.
Yeah, we're going to have a spirited conversation on this particular subject, of course.
(01:28):
I got to tell you, Jason, I have a mantra, never ever settle.
My attitude is almost like that of Winston Churchill during World War II, never ever,ever, ever, ever settle.
And I have my reasons for that, but I don't want to steal your thunder upfront because Iknow that this is also a topic.
I don't want to say it's near and dear to your heart because, I mean, you know, it's kindof an ugly topic.
(01:52):
But I know it's something you think a lot about and probably see a lot of guys who want totalk about it as well.
tell me your thought processes on settling, why it's an important topic to you and kind ofget the ball rolling for us.
Sure, Scot.
Well, I settling in a relationship, there's a lot to say about it.
(02:13):
I think on both ends of the argument, uh I work with a lot.
I work primarily with men and mostly with men in relationships or, you know, in whateverversion, either in a relationship or looking for one and meaning daters.
And so when I work with these daters and we talk a lot about
(02:36):
the process, which includes the idea of settling in a relationship.
And so a lot of what's talked about is based on patterns of relationships that people havegotten into where they have settled and later problems have crept up and they haven't
known either how to extract themselves out of a bad relationship or they will recreatethese patterns in successive relationships and not really know
(03:06):
what it is that's driving them to do that.
So sometimes these guys will come in to try to break these patterns or, you know, developsome awareness about how they keep settling with people that are not right for them or
relationships that are not right for them.
Yeah, you're saying a lot there.
It's kind of like settling is as settling does.
And once a guy starts settling for the wrong kind of girlfriend, or worse, the wrong kindof wife, if he actually marries her, God forbid, then what happens is he's sort of setting
(03:35):
a tone for how his relationships are going to go.
Jason, do you believe that has to do with a mindset that says, well, the kind of women Ireally want, they're reserved for some other guy.
I'm never going to be able to get the kind of woman I want.
you know.
I would be foolish to even try.
mean, people might even make fun of me saying, yeah, you think you can get her, good luckwith that.
You need to stay within your league or, you know, not try to punch above your weight orsomething like that.
(04:00):
You know, there are a million different cliches for either settling or uh doing betterthan society says you should.
So what's the psychology surrounding a guy who habitually settles like that?
Yeah, I think there's two different types of arguments.
One, when you're talking about, you know, punching above your weight class or trying to bewith somebody, you know, that might be quote out of your league.
(04:24):
I guess I tend to wonder what are the factors, you know, that are helping you look forsomeone.
Are you looking for someone with status or beauty or things that are quote, you know, inanother league?
So are those the things that are going to be sustainable in a long-term relationship?
I don't know about that.
I think that uh when we talk about settling, think fear uh is big driver.
(04:47):
I think low self-esteem or feelings of inadequacy or inferiority, which a lot of guys dealwith that have been unresolved from growing up or from their teenage years.
Those are the kind of things that drive the fear and drive the lack of risk taking and thelack of putting themselves out there to take a risk and meet the type of partners that
(05:11):
they.
could really see themselves with so they settle because they think that they're not goodenough or they think that they're not going to find the right type of partner or a
relationship.
Or maybe they have come from a family background where their parents had a dysfunctionalmodel of a relationship.
So they believe that, well, this is the only thing that I can create for myself.
(05:34):
So they don't know better.
So in any of those types of things could help to fuel a mindset about
holding themselves back or not going after what it is that they want to foment that orexacerbate it when you do get into a relationship and that becomes reality for you, kind
of reinforces that mindset.
(05:55):
and it crystallizes it.
So going forward, it becomes harder to break out of that, if that makes sense.
Yeah, it becomes a habit, doesn't it?
It can.
It can.
Yeah.
And the more reinforcement, the harder it is to to break out of it.
Yeah, you know, we've talked about on this show before the idea that self-esteem isdifficult.
(06:18):
I mean, it's really hard because we live with all our junk.
The miracle of selfhood dictates that we know all about ourselves, our most prurientthoughts, our most decadent and naughty thoughts, and all the things we'd like to do and
the things we have done and all the mistakes we've made.
And it's easy to pronounce judgment on ourselves because man,
(06:41):
We're so familiar with all our foibles and flaws.
But then we look at this hot chick across the room and go, she would never want to be witha guy like me.
Meanwhile, we have no idea what's going on in that pretty little head of hers.
She's thinking, I'm ugly.
My thighs are too fat.
I didn't shave my underarms.
my goodness.
I'm a disaster.
And so what happens is we end up going through life thinking we're less than and don't seeourselves as other people see us.
(07:08):
You know what I mean?
Yeah, it's true.
mean, we are our own worst critics and a lot of that type of thinking just becomes, youknow, barriers or fences to getting what it is that we want, whether it's in a
relationship realm or professional realm or just in any personal realm.
So those fences are ones that we construct essentially.
(07:30):
Yeah, that's true because it's not only limited to dating and relationships and attractingwomen.
Some of us think we're not good enough for that job or for that social group, et cetera.
So I think you're right on target there.
With regard to this habit of settling, one would think at least logically that if we arein a habit of settling, then every woman we end up with, the cycle of girlfriends we meet,
(07:53):
know, lather, rinse, repeat, because the relationship doesn't work out.
All those women must think they're hitting the jackpot because we're settling.
But I suspect what ends up happening in real life is you have couples who both believethey settled.
Am I making sense?
Yeah, yeah, I think that's true.
I think they're out there as well.
What's the psychology behind that?
(08:14):
I think it's simply that for starters, it could be two people who, for example, aresuffering from low self-esteem or who both have a similar mindset about, well, you know,
it's not going to happen for me in the way that I want it to, or it's not going to happenin the way that I had fantasized about growing up.
So let's find someone who's convenient or who's good enough.
(08:36):
And I think two people who are both struggling with that mindset or self-esteem can justmagnetize towards each other.
Yeah, I mean, first of all, the stereotype that comes to mind when we think of a guy whois settling, the mental picture we get, if you will, is that she's really ugly and he's
kind of at least an normie or somewhat handsome and, you know, he just can't get the womenwho are visually sexually attractive enough to really please his taste.
(09:03):
He's not really feeling like he can attract any women who quote unquote do it for
But the reality is even if you do attract a quote unquote beautiful woman who's your typeand she's batshit crazy, for example, or is just mean or is narcissistic or any of these
buzzwords that we bandy about nowadays, then, you know, she's not relationship ready atall.
(09:25):
And everybody she meets is going to be settling for a woman like that.
Right.
Yeah.
I think so.
mean, she links up with guys in a certain special kind of relationship.
So if she's narcissistic, there are guys out there that are going to fit the bill.
You have to know that that's a thing.
And a lot of times guys won't know that's a thing unless they have been exposed to thatpreviously in another relationship.
(09:48):
You know, I think that the vocabulary and language of mental health has become greater nowwith social media.
oh
people talking about it online, especially since the pandemic.
So I think those terms are out there a lot more so than they were maybe 10 years ago.
So it's good that people are starting to see that, these are things, these are signs Ineed to look for in a potential partner.
(10:10):
And hopefully you're looking for a partner, not just with those attributes like, you know,physique and attractiveness and things that are important, but they're not everything.
You're looking for the person, not just the package.
You're looking, you know, and it's that search within the person that can bring up thosecertain issues that we deal with.
(10:32):
Well, you know, you're kind of alluding to a point that is a darn good one, and that's ifa person is extremely selfish or a narcissist and they found this person who's infinitely
optimistic and generous and will do their bidding, well, they haven't settled.
I mean, they're perfectly happy.
It's the other poor bastard whose life is going to be terrible for having invited her intoit.
(10:54):
You know I mean?
That's a thing.
Yeah, I do work with that configuration a lot with guys who come in who are with anarcissist or someone else with a personality disorder.
You know, a lot of times guys are, they're a little more passive, they're less willing torock the boat.
And it's that kind of personality that narcissists get attracted to.
(11:17):
So they link up pretty well and they can stay together for some time.
The narcissist typically gets all of what they need and want out of a relationship.
Whereas
you the other person in the relationship doesn't, they have to subjugate themselves andtheir own needs, like people pleasers or nice guys even, or just guys who avoid conflict
in general, which are many.
(11:38):
Well, yeah, you brought up the magic phrase that I was about to throw on the table, Mr.
Nice Guy.
It seems to me, Jason, Mr.
Nice Guy always ends up subtle.
Most of the time I would say most of the time that's true.
Nice guys or people pleasers tend to subjugate their own needs because they're playing arole to be wanted or needed or desired and they're willing to, you know, bend over
(12:03):
backwards to meet the needs of their partner or really anybody else.
So it's more of a role rather than bringing their authentic self.
It's if that makes sense.
What would you say to a guy who said, well, you know, at least I've got a girlfriend.
She may not be perfect.
She may not be who I really want, but lots of people out there are absolutely alone andthere's a pandemic of loneliness.
(12:25):
you know, all things considered the ledger is in my favor.
So I shouldn't complain.
That's fear-based thinking.
And if someone were to say that to me in therapy, I would give them the feedback that Ibelieve that they would be rationalizing their situation.
You know, there is a pandemic of loneliness for sure, but, you know, that doesn't meanthat there aren't plenty of other people out there.
(12:47):
There's going to be plenty of partners that are not right for you, but there's going to bealso partners that are right for you.
It's just finding them.
And just because you have certain
history and experience with people, doesn't mean that that's everyone.
we have certain ways, defense mechanisms, ways that we protect our core and rationalizingour situation saying, well, this is the best I'm going to get, or, you know, it's so tough
(13:13):
finding a partner out there.
I'm not saying that it's not, you know, I talk with a lot of daters and people coming outof a relationship that want to get back into one that it is hard, you know, the dating
apps are
tired and old and people have kind of cycled through all the potential partners severaltimes over.
And I think that there is a fatigue aspect to it.
(13:34):
And I think there is some reality to the fact that it is hard to meet people, know,quality people, but I don't, you know, I still believe optimistically that they're out
there.
It's just, are you looking?
You know, what is your guidance system?
Well, yeah, you're talking about the idea of saying, well, at least I'm not alone beingfear-based.
And we talk about that a lot on this show, that whole idea.
(13:55):
It's a poverty mentality.
It's the battle cry of someone who's expecting to settle.
And the irony of this whole story based on what you just shared, Jason, which was a verygood insight, by the way, is that, you know, if you're with someone who's not right for
you or
(14:16):
who you're not attracted to.
It doesn't mean that person is all wrong or unattractive.
It may be that you're holding that person back, you you're holding that woman back fromfinding a guy who would appreciate her a lot more than you would because he likes that
body type.
He likes that personality, his values, et cetera, et cetera, are more in alignment withher than yours are.
(14:38):
So what's going on is you're actually withholding true relational happiness from someoneyou're settling for.
all because of our insecurity or our unwillingness to risk being with someone who wouldfit better with us, not only because they look better to us, but they're nicer to us.
(14:59):
We get along with them better.
We get each other mentally, which is a huge thing, our values align, et cetera, et cetera.
I've seen that happen.
I've seen people who are perfectly attractive.
go out with each other, but they're not each other's type and they don't get along andit's miserable and they're settling.
Meanwhile, the breakup happens and someone finds them who just adores them and life iswonderful forever and ever.
(15:24):
Amen.
So this idea that we believe we're destined to settle is really insidious because itreally keeps us from finding the person who we're supposed to be with.
And here's the question I have for you, Jason, based on that.
Would you agree that it's actually easier to find someone and have them agree to go outwith you if they're better suited to you?
(15:48):
And the woman feels chosen by you, if you'll pardon the passive voice, because evenvisually she's your type more.
Wouldn't that woman feel safer and more comfortable with you and therefore wouldn't thatpsychological state portend a much happier, longer lasting relationship?
I mean, I know I'm loading the question and you can feel free to disagree, but what aboutall that?
What I think I hear you saying is there's a reciprocal interest if a woman is alsochoosing you rather than you're just chasing them.
(16:15):
Is that right?
Well, I think women love to be chosen.
They feel insecure when they know the guy who is with them would really rather be withsomeone else.
Another way to say that is the only thing worse than settling for someone is feelingsettled for.
That's something that burns in the pit of your soul.
And so if a woman says to herself, you know, this guy doesn't even really want me.
(16:37):
He doesn't esteem me.
He doesn't value me.
I have no idea what's going on in his head.
He's probably going to leave me anyway.
Then she doesn't.
feel safe and secure and of course a woman feeling safe and secure is the magic silverbullet to having her be happy with you and attracted to you.
Women are security seeking creatures.
Yeah, and on that note, I would say it doesn't necessarily imply that the relationship fitis wrong or incorrect.
(17:04):
There could be other issues going on, uh say, in that example, where, you know, for a lotof men, a lot of guys struggle with emotional availability, emotional output, and
expression.
And so it doesn't mean that the relationship is not well paired.
It just means that there might be other issues.
That's matter of the guy's relationship readiness, If ah he's emotionally unavailable, whois he going to be happy with?
(17:31):
Who is going to be happy with him?
Well, I don't know about happy, but he'll be with someone who is on the more of thecodependent side, who is more a pursuer, who's chasing someone who is emotionally
unavailable.
And that is like, uh, that's an erotic pairing.
That's, and that's quite common for someone to, you know, if you're a male who'semotionally unavailable, it's super common, especially in our culture to pair up with
(17:59):
someone who has got a more of a codependent lean.
who is gonna chase you and try to crack you open.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it makes sense.
And now we have an elephant in the room that we've got to discuss.
All this is leading to the magic question, is a dysfunctional relationship necessarilysettling and vice versa?
(18:20):
Are they synonymous?
No, not necessarily.
Now that's an interesting take and I want to hear you flush that one out.
I mean, I think that there is a large overlap between settling and uh quote unquotedysfunctional relationship.
But I think that it comes down to really knowing yourself.
And if you really know yourself and you know what you can deal with in a relationship andwhat you can't, I think that's the difference between having someone settle and being in a
(18:50):
relationship because every relationship has its issues.
It has its
flaws or idiosyncrasies, what have you.
think really knowing yourself and knowing that, Hey, I want to be with this person.
They have enough of what I need in a relationship.
Not everything is perfect.
And there are plenty of things that I don't like, but these are things that I can accept.
(19:11):
You know, these are things that I can accept in this person.
And this, these are not deal breakers for me.
The problem with settling is that you're overlooking things that are deal breakers orpotential deal breakers.
And you're just.
you're moving along with those dragging you down.
I think that's the big difference is, and again, that comes through self-awareness andtherapy is, one of the things that therapy can do is to help you generate more
(19:40):
self-awareness to know what's acceptable to you and what's not.
Well, I think that's a fair point.
None of us are perfect.
The way my wife and I look at it is hopefully what she's not so great at, I'll be able tofill in the gaps for and vice versa.
But having been married for seven years to someone who basically had the whole alphabetsoup of psychosis by her name, you know, all the letters, I understand what making a bad
(20:08):
choice looks like.
my wife's ex also was schizophrenic and
both of our respective first marriages ended in disaster.
But fast forward to us getting together and we've had a pretty blissful relationship wherewe adore each other for almost two decades.
I don't have any day with her that's anything like almost every day I had with my firstwife.
(20:32):
And she would say the same thing about her situation.
Doesn't mean she's perfect, but she's my favorite female human being.
She's my best friend and she's not batshit crazy and vice versa.
me, she looks amazing and is exactly what I like.
She's the head-on collision of all my celebrity crushes basically.
So I don't know if we're unicorns and we got off easy, but I do think it's an interestingtake to somehow balance this idea of expected perfection.
(21:01):
The stereotype there is the woman who shows up for a date in New York City with achecklist of 200 boxes and starts interrogating the poor guy across the table on their
first date and if he
you has one box that isn't checked, you are the weakest link, goodbye, you know, and thatsort of dating mindset versus someone who said, well, I can't get who I really want.
So at least this chicken fog a mirror.
(21:22):
Yeah, there has to be a balance.
And it seems like you've just demonstrated one of the first signs of settling with whatyou just talked about.
And now it seems like we're on that core topic that, that lended a title to thisparticular podcast.
And, you know, I think in stealth mode, we have been talking about signs you're settling,but
go ahead and rattle off a few more, Jason.
(21:44):
What are the signs?
What are the warning signs that we're somewhere beyond having reasonable expectations fora relationship and we're off into settling land?
Sure.
So I think signs of settling what comes to mind for me are things like you're constantlyquestioning the relationship.
You've got one foot in and one foot out.
(22:06):
A lot of times guys that come in to see me are doing that.
They're just kind of fence straddlers.
You know, they're not fully committed for one reason or another, but that can be settling.
They've got a grasses greener mentality.
So they're always looking at other women or imagining that they're with other women or inother relationships.
They're not.
settled or happy with the person.
(22:29):
You know, they don't communicate with their partner.
They don't talk about the issues that are problematic for them.
They don't take that those risks or they're like I said earlier, they're avoidance ofconflict.
know what you're implying there is fear a lot of
is a generator for a lot of this.
Yeah, afraid to to make a move, you know, because they think that something's going tohappen, which typically may not happen.
(22:55):
It's the fear can produce irrational beliefs and thoughts that may or may not be true.
It's just the fantasies we're driving.
So we don't really know.
get, know, we it's kind of like erecting our own prison and we're keeping the key, youknow.
Yeah, exactly.
I've talked before about that idea of having our nose pressed against the glass looking atgreener pastures.
(23:18):
One of the ironies of the whole settling scenario in my mind, Jason, is that a woman mayknow you're settling for her, but she's lonely and she doesn't want to die alone and she
has this fear-based mentality.
So she exhorts the guy to look...
beyond the outside and look at my heart and fall in love with me for my brain, et cetera,et cetera.
(23:42):
But as soon as they actually do get married, she wants to be the most beautiful woman inthe world and have him look at her a certain way.
if he notices another chick at the shopping mall, he gets a rolling pin upside his head.
So the reality is still fed by the expectation that at least you're going to respect meand love me, even when the desperation mode...
(24:02):
uh
basically used other words during the alleged courtship process to get this guy to walkdown the aisle.
You know, that's all dangerous, isn't it?
Probably.
mean, the way you're describing it, sounds like that.
Sounds like hell the way I'm describing it.
sounds like it's a prototype for settling.
mean, that sounds like there's at least some passivity on the guy's part, you know, aninability to say, look, you know, we've had a good time dating, but this isn't for me.
(24:28):
This, you know, this needs to end, I need to, you know, this is just not working.
We're not a fit because
it's just too much of a Mr.
Nice guy to admit that and he commutulates he appeases her.
Probably.
Yeah, or he's too scared to say or doesn't know himself doesn't know his own needs andwants and, you know, is just willing to like go with the flow because it's available, you
(24:49):
know, and rather than take a stand and say, look, I need, I need something different.
need something better.
Yeah, you made a wonderful point a few minutes ago that bears a little more elaboration.
A lot of guys just don't have any self-awareness.
And you know, most of what we're talking about here is not gender specific.
I mean, there are women who can have faults in these areas as well and blind spots.
(25:11):
But if you don't know what your type even is, then you don't even know who she is going tobe and you're not going to recognize her when she shows up.
You know, and that sounds a little Pollyanna-ish, like a, you know, a Disney princesstale.
But I do think that the more people we date and the clearer we are on what our type is andwho we're going to get along with, the greater the likelihood we are going to recognize
(25:32):
her when she shows up.
And yet a lot of people do lack this self-awareness.
And one of the ways you anchored that thought was by bringing up deal breakers.
And I think it's a wonderful exercise to sit down and write down those things that youjust aren't going to settle for, that you aren't going to abide.
(25:52):
And you may also write down a list of traits that you're looking for that you believeyou're going to get along with that are attractive to you, et cetera, et cetera.
But unless and until you have clarity on all that ahead of time, Jason, what I thinkhappens from my years of experience, you know, not only dating and relating to women
myself, but also coaching other men is that once a woman comes along, you're going tostart rationalizing those behaviors and those traits of hers that
(26:21):
you may have written down as deal-breakers before you met her.
But now that she's in your life and you're hot for her visually, sexually, or you you'regoing to be alone and have to start all over again if we break up, you start rationalizing
things like her $30,000 a month gambling habit or that she kicks small dogs and yells atwaiters and, you know, is generally negative and prays to a completely different God than
(26:42):
you do.
So yeah, I think there's something to this exercise of writing down your deal-breakersahead of time.
And remembering later on, if you meet a woman who, you know, is, I'm not going say guiltyor commits one of these deal breakers, but exhibits one of these deal breakers, you're
only lying to yourself if you settle for her.
(27:02):
Is that fair?
Yeah, I think that's fair.
And I do think that an exercise like that is valuable so that you can get more in touchwith and see on paper, what are those things that are deal breakers?
Because you may not even know, you may not have ever been tasked with figuring that out.
You may have just been going from relationship to relationship and not really knowing justbeing kind of going with the wind.
(27:27):
And so I think that is helpful in developing self-awareness.
There's also a lot of unconscious.
factors and drivers that come from our early childhood and from seeing our own parents andtheir dysfunctionality and marriage and relationships.
there may be also a subset of deal breakers that you may or may not be aware of as well.
(27:48):
So that's a whole nother list.
Really, the bottom line is the greater the self-awareness that you have, the moreinformation you're going to be able to source to be able to figure out what's right for
you and what's not.
Let me offer a more visceral sign that you're settling.
And I would love to hear your take on this.
(28:09):
I believe based on experience and what I've heard from other guys and what I've seen, evenout there among other couples, that there's this undercurrent of frustration or even anger
that's leveled towards our significant other when we've settled for her.
And that can either be a constant undercurrent
(28:32):
where you're just easily angered or exhibiting constant frustration or an event cantrigger it.
And the kind of event I'm talking about is you just rubbed one out to porn and you sawthese other, you know, schlubs banging the chick that's exactly your type.
And now when you're back in the real world, after you blew your load, this old bag is yourwife and you're upset at her for being who she is and yet you can't even really tell her
(28:57):
you're upset with her.
Or you go out,
to a shopping mall or out to eat.
know, what man hangs around a shopping mall, right?
So that's probably a bad example.
But you you go out to eat and you see this other guy who's no better or worse than youwith the kind of woman you'd love to be with and they look happy.
And you're angry and frustrated with your poor wife for the rest of the week.
And she doesn't know what's going on.
(29:19):
She doesn't know why you're so mad and you're not about to tell her.
This is a thing.
And it's a prison to live in that environment.
And again, it's self created and you're just digging more of your own hole.
That's essentially passive aggression.
So in your own rage or anger onto your partner, but it's really unresolved within youbecause you're not taking the steps.
(29:41):
You're not making it happen so that you are putting it out there to her or to the world,to the universe and saying, this is not working for me.
You know, I don't want this anymore.
I need to find something that is working.
But
know, a million things can happen when you're not assertive and you're not communicative,you know, all those things can happen.
(30:01):
You can just spend time fantasizing about other things.
And a lot of guys actually will fall into self-sabotage too.
They'll blow up the relationship because they know no other way to deal with it.
So they'll have an affair, several affairs, they'll
do something to undermine it.
And that's also something that, you know, that we work on in therapy, that tendency to dothat, because that can happen over and over again in multiple relationships.
(30:31):
Yeah, I've seen that also frequently where a guy will sabotage his own success with womenjust so he can prove himself right.
See, I can't get any women.
Women don't like me.
I'm unlovable.
See, it happened again, but she was perfectly willing to be in a relationship.
He just couldn't bring himself to go through with it.
And now he wants to point the finger of blame at himself and maybe his therapist or hisdating coach, whoever's nearby trying to help him saying, Hey, you know what?
(30:58):
You're terrible at this.
You can't help me." So he's blaming and then offloading that responsibility just so he cansit there and wallow in his shame, his guilt, his fear, whatever you want to call it.
I've seen that.
It's frequent.
It is, unfortunately.
It is, because it's like everyone is harmed, everyone within the wake of that relationshipor marriage, including children, you know, for that matter.
(31:24):
that is, you know, there's a lot of destruction that happens and it doesn't need to gothat way, unfortunately.
What are your words of advice for guys who would like to avoid settling once and for all,Jason, before we close?
I think it just comes down to knowing oneself, really trusting oneself, and taking a riskto speak your mind, bring an authentic voice, an authentic self to the people that you
(31:51):
interact with or the people you want to interact with, and really not worrying so muchabout what they're thinking or about entertaining or appeasing them.
Just really trying to bring your full self.
I think things do work out when you do that.
Yeah, and I would add to that, guys, she's got a whole lot going on in her head too.
She probably doesn't think she's Miss Perfect the way you're seeing her either.
(32:14):
So take that chance, definitely.
His name is Jason Fierstein.
He is a psychotherapist and a counselor for men out of Phoenix, Arizona.
And when you go to mountaintoppodcast.com front slash settling, yeah, it's an ugly word,but we've never used it before, you will be sent over to phoenixmenscounseling.com, which
is Jason's website.
(32:35):
What are they going to find when they go there, Jason?
There's a whole lot of stuff.
I've got an active blog on lots of different types of articles, different subjects.
I've got a free ebook on my site as well, free to all.
It's called the guy's airbag.
It's about, it's a relationship crash course.
So it helps you whether you're in a relationship or wanting to get in one.
Um, there's a whole lot of resources on there.
(32:57):
Fantastic, man.
Thank you for finally coming onto the podcast.
This has been a great show with a lot of really valuable information.
And I think guys' lives are going to be changed.
So thanks again for coming on,
I really appreciate it and thanks for having me, Scot.
Yeah, you bet.
And gentlemen, when you go over to mountaintoppodcast.com, please be sure to visit ourthree longtime sponsors, Hero's Soap, The Keyport, and Jocko Willink's company, Origin in
(33:25):
Maine.
When you partake of anything from any of our three fine longtime sponsors, please use thecoupon code, mountainten, for an additional 10 % off.
uh you know, those guys will level you up with masculinity, all three of our longtimesponsors.
Gentlemen, some of you still have not talked to me on the phone.
Get on my calendar, 25 to 30 minutes.
(33:45):
We can talk about where you are right now with your relationships with women, or you cangive your feedback on the show, maybe suggest guests or topics we should cover.
And if it makes sense to put together a plan of action to level up your dating life andyour success with women so you don't settle anymore, hey, we can do that too.
Get on my calendar, check out all the free goodies and so much more atmountaintoppodcast.com.
(34:09):
And until I talk to you again real soon, this is Scot McKay from X and Y Communications inSan Antonio, Texas.
Be good out there.
you
The Mountain Top Podcast is produced by X and Y Communications, all rights reservedworldwide.
(34:31):
Be sure to visit www.mountaintoppodcast.com for show notes.
And while you're there, sign up for the free X and Y Communications newsletter for men.
This is Ed Roy Oldham speaking for the Mountain Top Podcast.
you
Live from the mist enshrouded mountaintop fortress that is X and Y communicationsheadquarters, you're listening to the world famous mountaintop podcast.
And now, here's your host, Scot McKay
All right, gentlemen, welcome to yet another episode of the world famous mountaintoppodcast.
As always, I am your host.
(00:25):
name is Scot McKay from X and Y communications.
You can find me on X on true social on Tik Tok and on YouTube at Scot McKay.
And you can find me on threads and on Instagram at real Scot McKay.
But avoid Threads.
It's terrible, guys.
The mountaintop podcast website is mountaintoppodcast.com.
(00:45):
And the Facebook group as always is the mountaintop summit on Facebook.
And guys, you need to join us there.
We are a group of men who are getting better with women and we want to see you there.
Our guest today is a first time guest on this podcast.
Although I remember distinctly interviewing him, man, it goes back probably a decade and ahalf.
(01:07):
He is a psychotherapist and a counselor for men from Phoenix, Arizona.
And the topic today is signs you are settling.
Jason Fierstein from Phoenix, Arizona.
Welcome, man.
Well, thanks, Scot.
Thanks for having me today.
Yeah, we're going to have a spirited conversation on this particular subject, of course.
(01:28):
I got to tell you, Jason, I have a mantra, never ever settle.
My attitude is almost like that of Winston Churchill during World War II, never ever,ever, ever, ever settle.
And I have my reasons for that, but I don't want to steal your thunder upfront because Iknow that this is also a topic.
I don't want to say it's near and dear to your heart because, I mean, you know, it's kindof an ugly topic.
(01:52):
But I know it's something you think a lot about and probably see a lot of guys who want totalk about it as well.
tell me your thought processes on settling, why it's an important topic to you and kind ofget the ball rolling for us.
Sure, Scot.
Well, I settling in a relationship, there's a lot to say about it.
(02:13):
I think on both ends of the argument, uh I work with a lot.
I work primarily with men and mostly with men in relationships or, you know, in whateverversion, either in a relationship or looking for one and meaning daters.
And so when I work with these daters and we talk a lot about
(02:36):
the process, which includes the idea of settling in a relationship.
And so a lot of what's talked about is based on patterns of relationships that people havegotten into where they have settled and later problems have crept up and they haven't
known either how to extract themselves out of a bad relationship or they will recreatethese patterns in successive relationships and not really know
(03:06):
what it is that's driving them to do that.
So sometimes these guys will come in to try to break these patterns or, you know, developsome awareness about how they keep settling with people that are not right for them or
relationships that are not right for them.
Yeah, you're saying a lot there.
It's kind of like settling is as settling does.
And once a guy starts settling for the wrong kind of girlfriend, or worse, the wrong kindof wife, if he actually marries her, God forbid, then what happens is he's sort of setting
(03:35):
a tone for how his relationships are going to go.
Jason, do you believe that has to do with a mindset that says, well, the kind of women Ireally want, they're reserved for some other guy.
I'm never going to be able to get the kind of woman I want.
you know.
I would be foolish to even try.
mean, people might even make fun of me saying, yeah, you think you can get her, good luckwith that.
You need to stay within your league or, you know, not try to punch above your weight orsomething like that.
(04:00):
You know, there are a million different cliches for either settling or uh doing betterthan society says you should.
So what's the psychology surrounding a guy who habitually settles like that?
Yeah, I think there's two different types of arguments.
One, when you're talking about, you know, punching above your weight class or trying to bewith somebody, you know, that might be quote out of your league.
(04:24):
I guess I tend to wonder what are the factors, you know, that are helping you look forsomeone.
Are you looking for someone with status or beauty or things that are quote, you know, inanother league?
So are those the things that are going to be sustainable in a long-term relationship?
I don't know about that.
I think that uh when we talk about settling, think fear uh is big driver.
(04:47):
I think low self-esteem or feelings of inadequacy or inferiority, which a lot of guys dealwith that have been unresolved from growing up or from their teenage years.
Those are the kind of things that drive the fear and drive the lack of risk taking and thelack of putting themselves out there to take a risk and meet the type of partners that
(05:11):
they.
could really see themselves with so they settle because they think that they're not goodenough or they think that they're not going to find the right type of partner or a
relationship.
Or maybe they have come from a family background where their parents had a dysfunctionalmodel of a relationship.
So they believe that, well, this is the only thing that I can create for myself.
(05:34):
So they don't know better.
So in any of those types of things could help to fuel a mindset about
holding themselves back or not going after what it is that they want to foment that orexacerbate it when you do get into a relationship and that becomes reality for you, kind
of reinforces that mindset.
(05:55):
and it crystallizes it.
So going forward, it becomes harder to break out of that, if that makes sense.
Yeah, it becomes a habit, doesn't it?
It can.
It can.
Yeah.
And the more reinforcement, the harder it is to to break out of it.
Yeah, you know, we've talked about on this show before the idea that self-esteem isdifficult.
(06:18):
I mean, it's really hard because we live with all our junk.
The miracle of selfhood dictates that we know all about ourselves, our most prurientthoughts, our most decadent and naughty thoughts, and all the things we'd like to do and
the things we have done and all the mistakes we've made.
And it's easy to pronounce judgment on ourselves because man,
(06:41):
We're so familiar with all our foibles and flaws.
But then we look at this hot chick across the room and go, she would never want to be witha guy like me.
Meanwhile, we have no idea what's going on in that pretty little head of hers.
She's thinking, I'm ugly.
My thighs are too fat.
I didn't shave my underarms.
my goodness.
I'm a disaster.
And so what happens is we end up going through life thinking we're less than and don't seeourselves as other people see us.
(07:08):
You know what I mean?
Yeah, it's true.
mean, we are our own worst critics and a lot of that type of thinking just becomes, youknow, barriers or fences to getting what it is that we want, whether it's in a
relationship realm or professional realm or just in any personal realm.
So those fences are ones that we construct essentially.
(07:30):
Yeah, that's true because it's not only limited to dating and relationships and attractingwomen.
Some of us think we're not good enough for that job or for that social group, et cetera.
So I think you're right on target there.
With regard to this habit of settling, one would think at least logically that if we arein a habit of settling, then every woman we end up with, the cycle of girlfriends we meet,
(07:53):
know, lather, rinse, repeat, because the relationship doesn't work out.
All those women must think they're hitting the jackpot because we're settling.
But I suspect what ends up happening in real life is you have couples who both believethey settled.
Am I making sense?
Yeah, yeah, I think that's true.
I think they're out there as well.
What's the psychology behind that?
(08:14):
I think it's simply that for starters, it could be two people who, for example, aresuffering from low self-esteem or who both have a similar mindset about, well, you know,
it's not going to happen for me in the way that I want it to, or it's not going to happenin the way that I had fantasized about growing up.
So let's find someone who's convenient or who's good enough.
(08:36):
And I think two people who are both struggling with that mindset or self-esteem can justmagnetize towards each other.
Yeah, I mean, first of all, the stereotype that comes to mind when we think of a guy whois settling, the mental picture we get, if you will, is that she's really ugly and he's
kind of at least an normie or somewhat handsome and, you know, he just can't get the womenwho are visually sexually attractive enough to really please his taste.
(09:03):
He's not really feeling like he can attract any women who quote unquote do it for
But the reality is even if you do attract a quote unquote beautiful woman who's your typeand she's batshit crazy, for example, or is just mean or is narcissistic or any of these
buzzwords that we bandy about nowadays, then, you know, she's not relationship ready atall.
(09:25):
And everybody she meets is going to be settling for a woman like that.
Right.
Yeah.
I think so.
mean, she links up with guys in a certain special kind of relationship.
So if she's narcissistic, there are guys out there that are going to fit the bill.
You have to know that that's a thing.
And a lot of times guys won't know that's a thing unless they have been exposed to thatpreviously in another relationship.
(09:48):
You know, I think that the vocabulary and language of mental health has become greater nowwith social media.
oh
people talking about it online, especially since the pandemic.
So I think those terms are out there a lot more so than they were maybe 10 years ago.
So it's good that people are starting to see that, these are things, these are signs Ineed to look for in a potential partner.
(10:10):
And hopefully you're looking for a partner, not just with those attributes like, you know,physique and attractiveness and things that are important, but they're not everything.
You're looking for the person, not just the package.
You're looking, you know, and it's that search within the person that can bring up thosecertain issues that we deal with.
(10:32):
Well, you know, you're kind of alluding to a point that is a darn good one, and that's ifa person is extremely selfish or a narcissist and they found this person who's infinitely
optimistic and generous and will do their bidding, well, they haven't settled.
I mean, they're perfectly happy.
It's the other poor bastard whose life is going to be terrible for having invited her intoit.
(10:54):
You know I mean?
That's a thing.
Yeah, I do work with that configuration a lot with guys who come in who are with anarcissist or someone else with a personality disorder.
You know, a lot of times guys are, they're a little more passive, they're less willing torock the boat.
And it's that kind of personality that narcissists get attracted to.
(11:17):
So they link up pretty well and they can stay together for some time.
The narcissist typically gets all of what they need and want out of a relationship.
Whereas
you the other person in the relationship doesn't, they have to subjugate themselves andtheir own needs, like people pleasers or nice guys even, or just guys who avoid conflict
in general, which are many.
(11:38):
Well, yeah, you brought up the magic phrase that I was about to throw on the table, Mr.
Nice Guy.
It seems to me, Jason, Mr.
Nice Guy always ends up subtle.
Most of the time I would say most of the time that's true.
Nice guys or people pleasers tend to subjugate their own needs because they're playing arole to be wanted or needed or desired and they're willing to, you know, bend over
(12:03):
backwards to meet the needs of their partner or really anybody else.
So it's more of a role rather than bringing their authentic self.
It's if that makes sense.
What would you say to a guy who said, well, you know, at least I've got a girlfriend.
She may not be perfect.
She may not be who I really want, but lots of people out there are absolutely alone andthere's a pandemic of loneliness.
(12:25):
you know, all things considered the ledger is in my favor.
So I shouldn't complain.
That's fear-based thinking.
And if someone were to say that to me in therapy, I would give them the feedback that Ibelieve that they would be rationalizing their situation.
You know, there is a pandemic of loneliness for sure, but, you know, that doesn't meanthat there aren't plenty of other people out there.
(12:47):
There's going to be plenty of partners that are not right for you, but there's going to bealso partners that are right for you.
It's just finding them.
And just because you have certain
history and experience with people, doesn't mean that that's everyone.
we have certain ways, defense mechanisms, ways that we protect our core and rationalizingour situation saying, well, this is the best I'm going to get, or, you know, it's so tough
(13:13):
finding a partner out there.
I'm not saying that it's not, you know, I talk with a lot of daters and people coming outof a relationship that want to get back into one that it is hard, you know, the dating
apps are
tired and old and people have kind of cycled through all the potential partners severaltimes over.
And I think that there is a fatigue aspect to it.
(13:34):
And I think there is some reality to the fact that it is hard to meet people, know,quality people, but I don't, you know, I still believe optimistically that they're out
there.
It's just, are you looking?
You know, what is your guidance system?
Well, yeah, you're talking about the idea of saying, well, at least I'm not alone beingfear-based.
And we talk about that a lot on this show, that whole idea.
(13:55):
It's a poverty mentality.
It's the battle cry of someone who's expecting to settle.
And the irony of this whole story based on what you just shared, Jason, which was a verygood insight, by the way, is that, you know, if you're with someone who's not right for
you or
(14:16):
who you're not attracted to.
It doesn't mean that person is all wrong or unattractive.
It may be that you're holding that person back, you you're holding that woman back fromfinding a guy who would appreciate her a lot more than you would because he likes that
body type.
He likes that personality, his values, et cetera, et cetera, are more in alignment withher than yours are.
(14:38):
So what's going on is you're actually withholding true relational happiness from someoneyou're settling for.
all because of our insecurity or our unwillingness to risk being with someone who wouldfit better with us, not only because they look better to us, but they're nicer to us.
(14:59):
We get along with them better.
We get each other mentally, which is a huge thing, our values align, et cetera, et cetera.
I've seen that happen.
I've seen people who are perfectly attractive.
go out with each other, but they're not each other's type and they don't get along andit's miserable and they're settling.
Meanwhile, the breakup happens and someone finds them who just adores them and life iswonderful forever and ever.
(15:24):
Amen.
So this idea that we believe we're destined to settle is really insidious because itreally keeps us from finding the person who we're supposed to be with.
And here's the question I have for you, Jason, based on that.
Would you agree that it's actually easier to find someone and have them agree to go outwith you if they're better suited to you?
(15:48):
And the woman feels chosen by you, if you'll pardon the passive voice, because evenvisually she's your type more.
Wouldn't that woman feel safer and more comfortable with you and therefore wouldn't thatpsychological state portend a much happier, longer lasting relationship?
I mean, I know I'm loading the question and you can feel free to disagree, but what aboutall that?
What I think I hear you saying is there's a reciprocal interest if a woman is alsochoosing you rather than you're just chasing them.
(16:15):
Is that right?
Well, I think women love to be chosen.
They feel insecure when they know the guy who is with them would really rather be withsomeone else.
Another way to say that is the only thing worse than settling for someone is feelingsettled for.
That's something that burns in the pit of your soul.
And so if a woman says to herself, you know, this guy doesn't even really want me.
(16:37):
He doesn't esteem me.
He doesn't value me.
I have no idea what's going on in his head.
He's probably going to leave me anyway.
Then she doesn't.
feel safe and secure and of course a woman feeling safe and secure is the magic silverbullet to having her be happy with you and attracted to you.
Women are security seeking creatures.
Yeah, and on that note, I would say it doesn't necessarily imply that the relationship fitis wrong or incorrect.
(17:04):
There could be other issues going on, uh say, in that example, where, you know, for a lotof men, a lot of guys struggle with emotional availability, emotional output, and
expression.
And so it doesn't mean that the relationship is not well paired.
It just means that there might be other issues.
That's matter of the guy's relationship readiness, If ah he's emotionally unavailable, whois he going to be happy with?
(17:31):
Who is going to be happy with him?
Well, I don't know about happy, but he'll be with someone who is on the more of thecodependent side, who is more a pursuer, who's chasing someone who is emotionally
unavailable.
And that is like, uh, that's an erotic pairing.
That's, and that's quite common for someone to, you know, if you're a male who'semotionally unavailable, it's super common, especially in our culture to pair up with
(17:59):
someone who has got a more of a codependent lean.
who is gonna chase you and try to crack you open.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it makes sense.
And now we have an elephant in the room that we've got to discuss.
All this is leading to the magic question, is a dysfunctional relationship necessarilysettling and vice versa?
(18:20):
Are they synonymous?
No, not necessarily.
Now that's an interesting take and I want to hear you flush that one out.
I mean, I think that there is a large overlap between settling and uh quote unquotedysfunctional relationship.
But I think that it comes down to really knowing yourself.
And if you really know yourself and you know what you can deal with in a relationship andwhat you can't, I think that's the difference between having someone settle and being in a
(18:50):
relationship because every relationship has its issues.
It has its
flaws or idiosyncrasies, what have you.
think really knowing yourself and knowing that, Hey, I want to be with this person.
They have enough of what I need in a relationship.
Not everything is perfect.
And there are plenty of things that I don't like, but these are things that I can accept.
(19:11):
You know, these are things that I can accept in this person.
And this, these are not deal breakers for me.
The problem with settling is that you're overlooking things that are deal breakers orpotential deal breakers.
And you're just.
you're moving along with those dragging you down.
I think that's the big difference is, and again, that comes through self-awareness andtherapy is, one of the things that therapy can do is to help you generate more
(19:40):
self-awareness to know what's acceptable to you and what's not.
Well, I think that's a fair point.
None of us are perfect.
The way my wife and I look at it is hopefully what she's not so great at, I'll be able tofill in the gaps for and vice versa.
But having been married for seven years to someone who basically had the whole alphabetsoup of psychosis by her name, you know, all the letters, I understand what making a bad
(20:08):
choice looks like.
my wife's ex also was schizophrenic and
both of our respective first marriages ended in disaster.
But fast forward to us getting together and we've had a pretty blissful relationship wherewe adore each other for almost two decades.
I don't have any day with her that's anything like almost every day I had with my firstwife.
(20:32):
And she would say the same thing about her situation.
Doesn't mean she's perfect, but she's my favorite female human being.
She's my best friend and she's not batshit crazy and vice versa.
me, she looks amazing and is exactly what I like.
She's the head-on collision of all my celebrity crushes basically.
So I don't know if we're unicorns and we got off easy, but I do think it's an interestingtake to somehow balance this idea of expected perfection.
(21:01):
The stereotype there is the woman who shows up for a date in New York City with achecklist of 200 boxes and starts interrogating the poor guy across the table on their
first date and if he
you has one box that isn't checked, you are the weakest link, goodbye, you know, and thatsort of dating mindset versus someone who said, well, I can't get who I really want.
So at least this chicken fog a mirror.
(21:22):
Yeah, there has to be a balance.
And it seems like you've just demonstrated one of the first signs of settling with whatyou just talked about.
And now it seems like we're on that core topic that, that lended a title to thisparticular podcast.
And, you know, I think in stealth mode, we have been talking about signs you're settling,but
go ahead and rattle off a few more, Jason.
(21:44):
What are the signs?
What are the warning signs that we're somewhere beyond having reasonable expectations fora relationship and we're off into settling land?
Sure.
So I think signs of settling what comes to mind for me are things like you're constantlyquestioning the relationship.
You've got one foot in and one foot out.
(22:06):
A lot of times guys that come in to see me are doing that.
They're just kind of fence straddlers.
You know, they're not fully committed for one reason or another, but that can be settling.
They've got a grasses greener mentality.
So they're always looking at other women or imagining that they're with other women or inother relationships.
They're not.
settled or happy with the person.
(22:29):
You know, they don't communicate with their partner.
They don't talk about the issues that are problematic for them.
They don't take that those risks or they're like I said earlier, they're avoidance ofconflict.
know what you're implying there is fear a lot of
is a generator for a lot of this.
Yeah, afraid to to make a move, you know, because they think that something's going tohappen, which typically may not happen.
(22:55):
It's the fear can produce irrational beliefs and thoughts that may or may not be true.
It's just the fantasies we're driving.
So we don't really know.
get, know, we it's kind of like erecting our own prison and we're keeping the key, youknow.
Yeah, exactly.
I've talked before about that idea of having our nose pressed against the glass looking atgreener pastures.
(23:18):
One of the ironies of the whole settling scenario in my mind, Jason, is that a woman mayknow you're settling for her, but she's lonely and she doesn't want to die alone and she
has this fear-based mentality.
So she exhorts the guy to look...
beyond the outside and look at my heart and fall in love with me for my brain, et cetera,et cetera.
(23:42):
But as soon as they actually do get married, she wants to be the most beautiful woman inthe world and have him look at her a certain way.
if he notices another chick at the shopping mall, he gets a rolling pin upside his head.
So the reality is still fed by the expectation that at least you're going to respect meand love me, even when the desperation mode...
(24:02):
uh
basically used other words during the alleged courtship process to get this guy to walkdown the aisle.
You know, that's all dangerous, isn't it?
Probably.
mean, the way you're describing it, sounds like that.
Sounds like hell the way I'm describing it.
sounds like it's a prototype for settling.
mean, that sounds like there's at least some passivity on the guy's part, you know, aninability to say, look, you know, we've had a good time dating, but this isn't for me.
(24:28):
This, you know, this needs to end, I need to, you know, this is just not working.
We're not a fit because
it's just too much of a Mr.
Nice guy to admit that and he commutulates he appeases her.
Probably.
Yeah, or he's too scared to say or doesn't know himself doesn't know his own needs andwants and, you know, is just willing to like go with the flow because it's available, you
(24:49):
know, and rather than take a stand and say, look, I need, I need something different.
need something better.
Yeah, you made a wonderful point a few minutes ago that bears a little more elaboration.
A lot of guys just don't have any self-awareness.
And you know, most of what we're talking about here is not gender specific.
I mean, there are women who can have faults in these areas as well and blind spots.
(25:11):
But if you don't know what your type even is, then you don't even know who she is going tobe and you're not going to recognize her when she shows up.
You know, and that sounds a little Pollyanna-ish, like a, you know, a Disney princesstale.
But I do think that the more people we date and the clearer we are on what our type is andwho we're going to get along with, the greater the likelihood we are going to recognize
(25:32):
her when she shows up.
And yet a lot of people do lack this self-awareness.
And one of the ways you anchored that thought was by bringing up deal breakers.
And I think it's a wonderful exercise to sit down and write down those things that youjust aren't going to settle for, that you aren't going to abide.
(25:52):
And you may also write down a list of traits that you're looking for that you believeyou're going to get along with that are attractive to you, et cetera, et cetera.
But unless and until you have clarity on all that ahead of time, Jason, what I thinkhappens from my years of experience, you know, not only dating and relating to women
myself, but also coaching other men is that once a woman comes along, you're going tostart rationalizing those behaviors and those traits of hers that
(26:21):
you may have written down as deal-breakers before you met her.
But now that she's in your life and you're hot for her visually, sexually, or you you'regoing to be alone and have to start all over again if we break up, you start rationalizing
things like her $30,000 a month gambling habit or that she kicks small dogs and yells atwaiters and, you know, is generally negative and prays to a completely different God than
(26:42):
you do.
So yeah, I think there's something to this exercise of writing down your deal-breakersahead of time.
And remembering later on, if you meet a woman who, you know, is, I'm not going say guiltyor commits one of these deal breakers, but exhibits one of these deal breakers, you're
only lying to yourself if you settle for her.
(27:02):
Is that fair?
Yeah, I think that's fair.
And I do think that an exercise like that is valuable so that you can get more in touchwith and see on paper, what are those things that are deal breakers?
Because you may not even know, you may not have ever been tasked with figuring that out.
You may have just been going from relationship to relationship and not really knowing justbeing kind of going with the wind.
(27:27):
And so I think that is helpful in developing self-awareness.
There's also a lot of unconscious.
factors and drivers that come from our early childhood and from seeing our own parents andtheir dysfunctionality and marriage and relationships.
there may be also a subset of deal breakers that you may or may not be aware of as well.
(27:48):
So that's a whole nother list.
Really, the bottom line is the greater the self-awareness that you have, the moreinformation you're going to be able to source to be able to figure out what's right for
you and what's not.
Let me offer a more visceral sign that you're settling.
And I would love to hear your take on this.
(28:09):
I believe based on experience and what I've heard from other guys and what I've seen, evenout there among other couples, that there's this undercurrent of frustration or even anger
that's leveled towards our significant other when we've settled for her.
And that can either be a constant undercurrent
(28:32):
where you're just easily angered or exhibiting constant frustration or an event cantrigger it.
And the kind of event I'm talking about is you just rubbed one out to porn and you sawthese other, you know, schlubs banging the chick that's exactly your type.
And now when you're back in the real world, after you blew your load, this old bag is yourwife and you're upset at her for being who she is and yet you can't even really tell her
(28:57):
you're upset with her.
Or you go out,
to a shopping mall or out to eat.
know, what man hangs around a shopping mall, right?
So that's probably a bad example.
But you you go out to eat and you see this other guy who's no better or worse than youwith the kind of woman you'd love to be with and they look happy.
And you're angry and frustrated with your poor wife for the rest of the week.
And she doesn't know what's going on.
(29:19):
She doesn't know why you're so mad and you're not about to tell her.
This is a thing.
And it's a prison to live in that environment.
And again, it's self created and you're just digging more of your own hole.
That's essentially passive aggression.
So in your own rage or anger onto your partner, but it's really unresolved within youbecause you're not taking the steps.
(29:41):
You're not making it happen so that you are putting it out there to her or to the world,to the universe and saying, this is not working for me.
You know, I don't want this anymore.
I need to find something that is working.
But
know, a million things can happen when you're not assertive and you're not communicative,you know, all those things can happen.
(30:01):
You can just spend time fantasizing about other things.
And a lot of guys actually will fall into self-sabotage too.
They'll blow up the relationship because they know no other way to deal with it.
So they'll have an affair, several affairs, they'll
do something to undermine it.
And that's also something that, you know, that we work on in therapy, that tendency to dothat, because that can happen over and over again in multiple relationships.
(30:31):
Yeah, I've seen that also frequently where a guy will sabotage his own success with womenjust so he can prove himself right.
See, I can't get any women.
Women don't like me.
I'm unlovable.
See, it happened again, but she was perfectly willing to be in a relationship.
He just couldn't bring himself to go through with it.
And now he wants to point the finger of blame at himself and maybe his therapist or hisdating coach, whoever's nearby trying to help him saying, Hey, you know what?
(30:58):
You're terrible at this.
You can't help me." So he's blaming and then offloading that responsibility just so he cansit there and wallow in his shame, his guilt, his fear, whatever you want to call it.
I've seen that.
It's frequent.
It is, unfortunately.
It is, because it's like everyone is harmed, everyone within the wake of that relationshipor marriage, including children, you know, for that matter.
(31:24):
that is, you know, there's a lot of destruction that happens and it doesn't need to gothat way, unfortunately.
What are your words of advice for guys who would like to avoid settling once and for all,Jason, before we close?
I think it just comes down to knowing oneself, really trusting oneself, and taking a riskto speak your mind, bring an authentic voice, an authentic self to the people that you
(31:51):
interact with or the people you want to interact with, and really not worrying so muchabout what they're thinking or about entertaining or appeasing them.
Just really trying to bring your full self.
I think things do work out when you do that.
Yeah, and I would add to that, guys, she's got a whole lot going on in her head too.
She probably doesn't think she's Miss Perfect the way you're seeing her either.
(32:14):
So take that chance, definitely.
His name is Jason Fierstein.
He is a psychotherapist and a counselor for men out of Phoenix, Arizona.
And when you go to mountaintoppodcast.com front slash settling, yeah, it's an ugly word,but we've never used it before, you will be sent over to phoenixmenscounseling.com, which
is Jason's website.
(32:35):
What are they going to find when they go there, Jason?
There's a whole lot of stuff.
I've got an active blog on lots of different types of articles, different subjects.
I've got a free ebook on my site as well, free to all.
It's called the guy's airbag.
It's about, it's a relationship crash course.
So it helps you whether you're in a relationship or wanting to get in one.
Um, there's a whole lot of resources on there.
(32:57):
Fantastic, man.
Thank you for finally coming onto the podcast.
This has been a great show with a lot of really valuable information.
And I think guys' lives are going to be changed.
So thanks again for coming on,
I really appreciate it and thanks for having me, Scot.
Yeah, you bet.
And gentlemen, when you go over to mountaintoppodcast.com, please be sure to visit ourthree longtime sponsors, Hero's Soap, The Keyport, and Jocko Willink's company, Origin in
(33:25):
Maine.
When you partake of anything from any of our three fine longtime sponsors, please use thecoupon code, mountainten, for an additional 10 % off.
uh you know, those guys will level you up with masculinity, all three of our longtimesponsors.
Gentlemen, some of you still have not talked to me on the phone.
Get on my calendar, 25 to 30 minutes.
(33:45):
We can talk about where you are right now with your relationships with women, or you cangive your feedback on the show, maybe suggest guests or topics we should cover.
And if it makes sense to put together a plan of action to level up your dating life andyour success with women so you don't settle anymore, hey, we can do that too.
Get on my calendar, check out all the free goodies and so much more atmountaintoppodcast.com.
(34:09):
And until I talk to you again real soon, this is Scot McKay from X and Y Communications inSan Antonio, Texas.
Be good out there.
you
The Mountain Top Podcast is produced by X and Y Communications, all rights reservedworldwide.
(34:31):
Be sure to visit www.mountaintoppodcast.com for show notes.
And while you're there, sign up for the free X and Y Communications newsletter for men.
This is Ed Roy Oldham speaking for the Mountain Top Podcast.
you
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