September 5, 2025 • 51 mins
In this episode of Tim’s Take, Tim Reinbott sits down with Dr. Shibu Jose, Associate Dean for Research at the College of Agriculture, Food and Natural Resources, and Director of the Agricultural Experiment Station. Dr. Jose shares his fascinating journey from growing up on a small farm in India to becoming a leader in agricultural research.
Through a heartfelt story about his childhood on his grandmother's farm, Dr. Jose discusses how his early experiences shaped his passion for agriculture, forestry, and soil science. He also delves into the importance of hands-on learning for students and how real-world agricultural research plays a critical role in preparing the next generation of professionals.
Tim's Take 39 Part One Video: https://youtu.be/OKxT7vYYChA
Tim's Take Video Part Two: https://youtu.be/LB7GaM6kylE
Tim's Take 39 Audio Podcast: https://mcdn.podbean.com/mf/web/7bpb7zbzeewzrh8q/Tims_Take_39_Audio_Podcast8w36a.mp3
Visit https://moaes.missouri.edu/ to learn more.
#mizzou #agriculturalresearch #agriculturaleducation #sustainableagriculture
The Missouri Agricultural Experiment Station (MOAES) extends CAFNR research to nearly 14,000 acres across the state to meet regional research and demonstration needs of agricultural producers and natural resource managers. MOAES has a storied history of major impacts in advancing science in agriculture, food and natural resources — locally, nationally and globally. These CAFNR laboratories provide research faculty with a wide variety of real-world conditions to test and develop strategies for agricultural production based on the geographical and climatic differences of our diverse state.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
[♫]
(Tim Reinbott) Well, welcome to Tim's Take! And today, we have a very, very special guest.
This is my boss, so let's be good here! Uh, this is Dr. Shibu Jose. He is currently the
Associate Dean for Research at... in the College of Agriculture, Food and Natural Resources. But,
(00:25):
you also have another even bigger title, Director of the Ag Experiment Station, and that's where we
fall in under this. Now, but Shibu, tell us about yourself. (Shibu Jose) Yeah, thank you, Tim. Um,
I appreciate first of all this opportunity to join the famous Tim's Take. So, appreciate
it. (Tim) Just took two years for it to get you here. (Shibu) So, I grew up on a small farm in
(00:50):
India. It was my grandma's farm. Very small. If you look at the small farm definition for the US,
you know, this farm, you won't even call it a farm because it's third of an acre. That's what it was.
But it was an agroforestry farm. That means we had trees. Uh, we had, um... you know, timber trees,
(01:19):
nut trees, fruit trees. You name it. We also had some spice trees, but we also had coconut palms.
We had a little bit of rice paddy and... and milking cow and... and so, it... it's a small farm
that fits the definition of a tropical home garden agroforest. So, I'll tell you a story about how
(01:49):
I really got interested in like, agriculture and forestry and soils. So when I was in fifth grade,
uh... the government of India had this program called Social Forestry, trying to promote tree planting
on farms. Of course, our farm had plenty of trees to begin with, but still, I brought
(02:13):
this tiny seedling that I got from school. Uh, seedling of a very precious tree called
sandalwood. And it is called liquid gold because the oil extracted from sandalwood is used to make,
uh, perfumes, and so it's... it's highly valuable. I knew that much at least. So I brought the...
(02:38):
the... the tiny seedling home, and I wanted to plant it in a very special place because,
uh... it is a very special species, right? It's a very special tree. So I found the only place where
we didn't have any trees, that is kind of the... the front yard. Cannot call it a driveway because
(02:58):
we didn't have a car, or it's not a driveway. It's the front yard. A tiny space where we didn't have
any trees, or any plants for that matter. So I found the perfect spot right in the middle of
that. And... and I was about to plant this tiny seedling, and my grandma came to me and asked,
"What are you doing?" And I said, "Grandma, this is a very special tree called sandalwood,
(03:20):
and I want to plant it right here." And grandma said, 'No, you cannot plant it here." And I asked
her, "Why?" And she said, "No. It... it... this tiny plant needs a mother." And I was looking at
grandma, and I told her, "Grandma, no. You're pulling my leg." And she said, "No, I'm not.
(03:41):
It needs a mommy." Then I asked her why, and she said, "Oh, it needs a mom to... to nourish her,
to nurse, you know, this, not her, nourish it, to take care of it." And I claimed to Grandma
that no, she didn't know anything. And... and of course, Grandma only had a fourth
(04:01):
grade schooling and I was in fifth grade, so I felt like I was at least a grade above her.
But Grandma finally convinced me that I needed to plant that tiny seedling near another big tree,
and that big tree would become its mom and would take care of that tiny seedling. Of course,
(04:23):
Grandma won and I made, you know, that choice to plant it near another big tree. And... and
time passed by, and it was not until I was a senior in college that I learned what Grandma
was trying to teach me. Of course, she didn't know the ecology or the physiology behind any of it,
(04:47):
but she knew based on the traditional knowledge that had been transferred to her from generation
to generation that the sandalwood needed a mom. And I learned in college that sandalwood is what
we call a hemi-root parasite. It puts its roots into the roots of these bigger plants.
(05:12):
And that's how it gets its water and its nutrients more efficiently. Poor Grandma didn't know the,
you know, the... the scientific facts, but she knew it needed a mom. (Tim) The power
of observation. (Shibu) The power of observation. Not by her, but... or by herself, but passed on to
(05:35):
her through generations. Maybe she learned that on her own, too. I don't know. But Grandma knew quite
a bit. I always appreciated how much she knew after I studied some of these things in college,
and I could then figure out how good she was in putting the right species in the right place for
(05:55):
the right reasons, creating that home garden agroforestry farm for the family. Of course,
that led me to pursue my degree from the Kerala Agriculture University. Uh, and I gravitated more
towards forestry and learned quite a bit. Came to the US. Had the opportunity to study agroforestry,
(06:22):
trying to put multiple species together as a farm unit just like the way my grandma was managing our
tiny farm. Then I learned how difficult it was. I was just trying to put two species together,
corn and black walnut in Indiana. Trying to... trying to create an alley cropping system. And
(06:48):
similarly, you know, soybean and also black walnut. We had another species, red oak. So
that's... that was the combination, either corn or soybean with either black walnut or red oak. Two
valuable tree species. Mixing them together with two valuable crops, corn and soybean,
so important for the Midwest. Then I learned how difficult it was. But then I appreciated even...
(07:15):
even more the knowledge that my grandma had in putting, you know, the rice and the coconut palms
and the trees and the animals all together on a tiny piece of land. But I learned the scientific
principles and spent a career investigating how crops and trees interact. How can we make them
(07:36):
a sustainable system on the same piece of land. (Tim) And there at Purdue, you really emphasized
soils too, didn't you? (Shibu) Exactly. I was looking at the belowground interactions,
you know, root-to-root interactions when you put these crops and trees together. Because of course,
(07:57):
you will suspect that the trees being bigger, you know, they would compete so heavily with corn or
soybean, but that's not necessarily true. When the trees are younger, the crops can compete even more
vigorously with those young, tiny seedlings. So if you don't alleviate that competition early on,
(08:20):
the trees don't have a chance to survive. But as the trees grow, of course, they put a lot more
roots, and that competition becomes more intense than for water and for nutrients with the crops.
And then the crops will suffer. And if you don't take that... take care of that competition for
(08:41):
light, for water, for nutrients, then you won't have a crop. Corn, being a C4 plant,
doesn't have a chance under shade. But through my research I showed that, yes, of course,
that reduces yield somewhat, but the competition below ground in the soil for water and nutrients,
(09:03):
that was the key in making that system work. So what we did was we alleviated that by trenching
on both sides of the trees, that way separating the root systems of the trees from that of the...
the corn or soybean. And then of course, we saw the yield come back just like the monoculture
outside of the alley cropping. So we proved that, you know, the belowground competition was so
(09:30):
important in the sustainability of that system in the long run. (Tim) What I like about that, it's
the... it's the basic physiology, but also the production and... and getting into the soil also
that it put it all together. (Shibu) Yes, it... it is putting it all together, but not just the,
(09:52):
you know, the agronomics or the physiology of the crops or the trees, but also the economics.
Because by the end of the day, farmers should make money out of farming. (Tim) And we forget
that sometimes, don't we? It's easy to get so involved in our science that we forget that there
is a return on that investment. (Shibu) Yeah. So, so agroforestry as... as a system with, you know,
(10:18):
multiple species put together, the beauty of that is, let's say crop prices are low for one crop,
then you have another crop that may somehow give you that buffer. Or your trees are still,
you know, growing, and one day you will reap the benefit of growing a woody component as part of
(10:39):
your farm. So, it... it has multiple benefits. (Tim) There's a early and then there's a medium...
and medium maybe, where both are growing well, the crops and the trees, then there's that mature
where your trees are going to be your... your... your wood product or your nut product or... or
such. (Shibu) That is true. That is true. And you may also get to a point where the shading is so,
(11:02):
so intense that you may not... you may not be able to grow a crop underneath. You may want to convert
that to a pasture at that. (Tim) Right. (Shibu) So you have to figure out what's your end goal.
What's your intention in creating a system like that? In my grandma's case, of course,
it worked. We had all these things. If you go back there, of course, my grandma passed away in 1991,
(11:23):
but the farm is still there... (Tim) Is it? (Shibu) and... and we still have... we don't have
any rice anymore, but we still have pretty much all the... all the trees. And... and you'll see
bananas growing in the underneath, you know, the under the shade and... and all kinds of other annuals
and... and... and perennials under these big trees. (Tim) That's so interesting that everything
was planted for a reason and where it was planted. (Shibu) Yep. We... we never bought, as far as
(11:50):
I can remember, we got almost all our fruits from our small, tiny farm. Pineapples, bananas,
uh... mangoes, you know, you name it, we had it on our farm. (Tim) Someone said, "Well, that's
a tropical to subtropical climate, but you can do that on temperate climates, too." (Shibu) You
(12:13):
can. (Tim) It's different, but... but you can. (Shibu) Yeah. You can... if you... if you have
a small farm. If you want to diversify. You know, it is a possibility. Or even on a large farm, if
you want to, you know, try some other high-value crops. And... and you've seen the work of the
Center for Agroforestry and... and elderberry or Chinese chestnuts or even pecans or black walnuts.
(12:37):
You know, there are all sorts of opportunities available out there. (Tim) But there's, what? Five
different parts of agroforestry? (Shibu) Yes. Five major practices of agroforestry. (Tim) Practices.
Yes. What are... what are those? (Shibu) Well, um... alley cropping, the one that I studied is
one. Of course, silvopasture is perhaps the... the fastest growing, uh, agroforestry practice in the
(13:02):
US. And... and... and... and you have windbreaks. You know, that's how in the United States we
really got started in agroforestry in a big way because following the Dust Bowl, you remember all
the tree plantings. (Tim) Yes. (Shibu) And, yeah. Uh, the Great Plains in particular and... and so,
windbreaks became our first formal agroforestry practice in the 30s and 40s. And riparian buffers,
(13:29):
that's another, uh... major practice protecting the, you know, the water bodies. And... and the
last one is forest farming. Essentially, you know, a similar concept to that of the
tropical home garden where I grew up. You have the forest, or you have the trees, and then you have
(13:50):
the clearings, or openings, underneath where you try to grow other crops. And... and so,
those are the five major practices. There is a sixth one that is becoming also common these days.
Urban food forest. And... and so, it's almost like an extension of the urban agriculture. (Tim) Well,
(14:11):
after you got your P... MS and PhD at Purdue, you went on to Florida. (Shibu) That's right. I
started my faculty career at Florida. But there was a short period before that that I went to
Minnesota as a postdoc, and I had the pleasure of working with, uh, some really well-renowned
(14:32):
ecologists on the prairie ecosystem. So, so when I think about my training, that's why,
you know, I... I... I call myself, you know, like, uh... an ecologist, broadly trained ecologist,
but primarily in the belowground processes as a soil scientist, you know, like you said earlier.
Um, why? Because, of course, if you go back and look at my undergraduate degree, I did a thesis
(15:00):
looking at soils comparing the prairie soils with forest soils. And, and fast forward, you know,
even as part of my masters and PhD, I looked into soils and nutrients and plants and interactions,
and then of course, used some of those skills when I went to Minnesota as a postdoc. And there,
(15:24):
we looked at, you know, what happens if there is increased CO2 in the atmosphere? What happens if
there is increased nitrogen deposition? You know. What will happen to the prairies that
we have? So I studied a lot of the grassland species there. But after eight months, I had
the pleasure of packing up everything and moving down to the sunny Florida where I was at a farm,
(15:48):
uh, University of Florida's... West Florida REC (Research and Education Center) and where I taught
and did research and... and... and so, of course, I studied a lot of the... the southern variants
of agroforestry. That was one of my interests. And so, I looked into cotton because cotton was
a major crop. And... and so in Indiana, I had the pleasure of studying corn and soybean. Back home,
(16:14):
I grew up with rice. And... and in Minnesota, I studied the prairie grassland... (Tim) Wow.
(Shibu) ...you know, species. And... and then at Florida, I had the pleasure of looking at some of
the southern crops, like cotton and peanuts, and how do you grow them with some woody perennials
like pecan, because pecan orchards used to be very common in the northwest, uh, part of
(16:39):
Florida. So that's what I was trying to look at. How can you make use of all this space in between
the pecan trees? Can you grow cotton? Or can you grow peanut? And pines are also so important to
the economy of the South. And I particularly like this longleaf pine, the long needled pine. And...
(17:01):
and so I started working with longleaf pine. And again, trying to combine longleaf pine with cotton
and peanuts and... and creating that kind of a system so that landowners can make income. Even
if they are trying to restore longleaf, trying to establish a pine plantation, can they earn an
(17:22):
income from the very beginning itself from their cotton or peanut, rather than waiting for 15 years
to harvest these trees? Can you grow something in between? And of course, it's not always possible.
I will admit it. I'll be the first one to admit. But in some systems like the pecan orchard,
(17:43):
when you are planting those trees 60 feet apart, there is a lot of space that you can
utilize early in the establishment phase, maybe for the first 10 years. (Tim) Sure. (Shibu) And...
and... and you are using that space wisely for cotton or... or peanut. So those were the kind of,
uh... agroforestry practices that I worked with, uh... while I was at Florida. But I
(18:07):
was also interested in silvopasture. So I started working on silvopasture because there's a lot of,
uh... cattle, as you can imagine, in Florida. (Tim) Yeah, people think of Florida as a vacation
destination, but it's a huge agricultural. (Shibu) It is. It is. Ag is big in... just like here in
Missouri, in Florida too. (Tim) Right. And not just our... like our subtropicals like oranges,
(18:32):
but it's like you... like you mentioned, the major crops, peanuts and cotton and
even soybeans! (Shibu) Cattle and soybeans (Tim) Livestock. Yes. (Shibu) Yes. (Tim) Well,
you must have did pretty good because they asked you to come up to Missouri to head our
agroforestry. (Shibu) That... that is right. I think I... my... my experience working with the
(18:53):
diverse systems of agroforestry... obviously, caught the attention of some of the folks here.
So I started getting calls about this opportunity to come and lead the best temperate agroforestry
center in the world. I'm so proud that, you know, we have that in our college, College of
(19:15):
Agriculture, Food and Natural Resources. As you know, they just hosted the 19th,
uh... North American Agroforestry Conference last week... (Tim) Right. (Shibu) ...uh,
with over 200 people attending. So this is by far the... the best temperate agroforestry program in
the whole world. And it was even back then. (Tim) About 2009? Is that when you came? (Shibu) 2009.
(19:40):
So I got a call from the founding director, Dr. Gene Garrett, informing me about this wonderful
opportunity and the fact that he was about to retire, and they were about to open the search
and... and there was going to be a huge endowment, you know, and it was going to be an endowed chair
professorship and everything was attractive. And I had just become a full professor at the
(20:00):
University of Florida at that point, but... and we had just built our house about a year
before that. (Tim) And you had two little boys! (Shibu) And you're right! Before I moved here,
my other... my younger son was just born, and... but we made that decision, uh... to move because
it seemed like a wonderful opportunity, first, to come to the University of Missouri and to a
(20:25):
very well-known, uh... center. Back then we called it a signature program in the college. Now it is,
uh, what we call a Program of Distinction in our college, but also an endowed chair professorship.
That was something very attractive. So I came in as the Director of the Center and the Garrett
(20:45):
Endowed Chair Professor. And so it was... it was a great time. (Tim) But you also must have made an
impression because then they asked you to lead an even bigger organization with the School of
Natural Resources. (Shibu) I had the fortune, I would say. Yes. After being the Director of
the Center, and also you may recall, Tim, I also held the role as the Superintendent... (Tim) Oh,
(21:10):
that's right. (Shibu) ...of the Horticulture and Agroforestry Farm for about five... six years,
and... and so I had a number of ex... you know, leadership experiences, I would say. And when
the time came, and they were looking for a new director for the School of Natural Resources,
I applied for it. And I applied, and... and it was a national, uh, search, and... and luckily, I
(21:33):
was one of the finalists, and to make a long story short, I was offered the job, and I took it! But I
felt like, you know, after serving agroforestry for, uh, at that point about seven and a half
to eight years, it was time for me to... to maybe move on to another leadership opportunity, and...
and it was a wonderful, wonderful opportunity for me to lead, uh, the School of Natural Resources as
(21:58):
its Director. (Tim) Because again, it's... it's even more diversified now. You've got fisheries,
and... but you've got what you love too, forestry and soils and... (Shibu) Oh! (Tim) ...and tourisms
in here now. It's... it... it's such a... a diverse, and probably one of our signature
divisions in... in the whole, um, campus. (Shibu) Yeah. Uh, the School of Natural Resources is,
(22:20):
as... as you know, one of the six divisions in our... in our college. Uh, a division with nearly,
at this point, uh... 1,000 students. And... and as you said, Tim, it's so diverse, right? It's
the home of soil science as an academic, you know, program, and... and as you said, it...
(22:42):
it goes from forestry to wildlife to... to soils to the social sciences, like parks, recreation and
tourism, environmental sciences, water resources, you name it. (Tim) Right. (Shibu) And atmospheric
sciences. It is so diverse! And it was fun for me. (Tim) Because it all comes together. (Shibu) Oh,
(23:03):
it all. (Tim) It all... yes. (Shibu) I used to... I used to call our school as the most
comprehensive schools of its nature in the country. (Tim) In the country? (Shibu) Because...
because of, yeah. Because of the breadth as well as the depth of what we covered in the
school. (Tim) And as always, when... when you do a... a great job, other opportunities open up,
(23:28):
don't they? And... and... and you're asked to lead even bigger. (Shibu) That is true. That is true.
(Tim Reinbott) Now you're successful. You're in the ideal situation in the Director of... of the
School of Natural Resources, but the college came calling, didn't it? (Dr. Shibu Jose) Yes,
it did. And... and I had, again, I had great fun running the School of Natural Resources. It was
(23:53):
a time when we, as you know very well, Tim, you know, we went through some, uh... fiscal,
uh... challenges during the two years when I served as the Director of the School of Natural
Resources. But with faculty support, I took the school through a major restructuring and... and,
(24:13):
uh... we also had begun the process of, uh... the degree restructuring in the school, and we
completed all of that. And... and, uh... we used to have four different degree programs. We brought
that to three, and... and... and each program has grown tremendously since then! And... and so,
that was all, you know, the... the fun part of it. I'm not saying it was fun while doing,
(24:38):
but it was challenging! But still, we did. The faculty came together, and we accomplished a
number of things. And... and we were also able to hire, despite some of our financial challenges,
we were able to hire 12 faculty, and... and seven of them, you know, tenure track faculty, including
a number of, you know, female faculty. And so, it was a great time. I really enjoyed that. And...
(25:03):
and... and, but then the opportunity came up. The Dean came to me one day and pretty much said,
"Shibu, remember our conversation we talked about, and you asked me about the... the search for the next
Associate Dean for Research and the Director of the Experiment Station? I told you that,
(25:28):
'Yeah, we are negotiating, but if it does not work out, I'm not too worried. I have a plan B.'" And
he looked at me and said, "Well, I didn't tell you what my plan B was, but today I can tell you. You
are my plan B." And of course, it was an honor. (Tim) But now, just like your farm growing up,
(25:49):
the diversity of what you have to oversee is tremendous now! (Shibu) It is! And... and I feel
blessed because I've had all this experience. You know, like living on a farm, for example.
Growing up on a farm. But even as a PhD student, I spent, you know... and even as a master student,
(26:12):
altogether I spent about four years... five years on a farm in Indiana, and that's where I learned
how to... because the tiny third of an acre farm didn't have anything mechanical. We did everything
by hand. But coming to the US when I started working with corn and soybean,
I learned how to... to drive a tractor. How to use a planter. How to use a sprayer. Don Biehle,
(26:38):
you may recognize that name. (Tim) Oh, yes. Yes! (Shibu) Yeah. He was the Farm Manager at
SEPAC (Southeast Purdue Ag Center) who taught me everything I needed to... to know to run a farm.
But he gave me that opportunity to learn and... and... and use the equipment on my own. So that
was a great learning experience. The diverse experience really prepared me for this job,
(27:03):
as you said. Of course, as the Associate Dean for Research and the Director of the Experiment
Station, I'm overseeing multiple things. The research enterprise of our college. Our portfolio
is so broad, right? Plant Science, Animal Science, Food Science, Social Science... (Tim) School of
(27:31):
Natural Resources! (Shibu) Of course, of course. And even, you know, we have two divisions where we
have joined faculty with the School of Medicine. And we have faculty jointly appointed through,
for example, College of Engineering. And so, we have all kinds of partnerships and collaborations.
(27:51):
And so, what we do is so diverse, but it's all within the broad umbrella of Agriculture, Food,
and Natural Resources. And I feel like, you know, living on farm in Indiana and
then my first faculty career, although it was with the University of Florida,
my first six years I was on a farm 5 and a half hours away from campus. So when I have the title
(28:18):
as... as the Director of the AES, I feel right at home cuz I was used to, even as a grad student,
living on a farm, part of the Ag Experiment Station network in Indiana. And when I was a
postdoc up in Minnesota, that was another... another farm where I worked. I was part of
the AES of the College of Ag up in Minnesota, and then of course, my career at Florida. I worked at
(28:47):
multiple AES farms. So being the Director of AES, I feel right at home. (Tim) Right! (Shibu) Since
I have worked with colleagues from, if you look at my publications you will see that, although I
got... I got degrees in natural resources, if you look at, I have over 50% of my publications in
(29:13):
agronomy. (Tim) Really? (Shibu) Yeah. And because of my interest in agronomy and soil science,
right? (Tim) Sure. (Shibu) So, so with all of that, at least I can understand and appreciate
the science behind pretty much all the disciplines covered within our college. (Tim) And you've been
(29:36):
able to even expand the faculty in CAFNR and AES more that way. I mean, you've encouraged
them to really branch out, to really... to really collaborate with more and more of each other.
(Shibu) Exactly. And... and that's one thing that our college and our faculty have done really well.
(29:57):
And I, of course, I'm not taking the credit for it, but in the last six years, I've really
promoted that interdisciplinary collaboration. And you know, because we established a number of those
interdisciplinary centers,... (Tim) Right. (Shibu) ...like the Missouri Water Center was the first
(30:20):
one that I worked on, and bringing a group of faculty together from engineering and from our
college and from journalism and from arts and science, trying to create a program where they
can come together and work on water as a precious resource, not for us, but for the whole state,
(30:43):
for Missourians. And that center has done so well, as you know, since we brought it together. And the
Center for Regenerative Ag is another example. And then of course, the Johnny Morris Institute,
and... and you know, I can give you a number of examples, but um... every one of them, you will
(31:04):
see a number of people from the biophysical as well as the socioeconomics coming together
to work on a complex issue that we face for the benefit of the state. (Tim) And... and that's a
fairly new concept, isn't it really? I mean, before we... we seem to be in our silos, our
different disciplines, and didn't work together a lot, especially from... from one college to
(31:29):
a next. So that's... that's really, really to benefit the... the, uh... people in Missouri, but
also every... everyone. (Shibu) It is. And... and that is, of course, the new model, right? Because
these challenges that we face, these are complex challenges. One discipline alone cannot take care
(31:50):
of or resolve, you know, the complex challenges that we face. So we need a team of experts from
different disciplines to come together, and our faculty are doing a great job. And... and
some of these interdisciplinary centers, uh... even Center for Agroforestry is such a center if
you look at the expertise, you know, of people from all sorts of disciplines coming together.
(32:14):
And all of these centers have done a great job in the last few years to go after big, large,
funding opportunities to bring in multi-million dollar grants, and that has really helped
us expand the size and the scope of our CAFNR research enterprise. (Tim) And... and this even
(32:39):
filters down to the undergraduate side of things. Because I know your research, Bryan Garton, is...
is an undergraduate, but this strengthens those other groups too, doesn't it? Them and Extension.
(Shibu) Definitely! Definitely. And that's the... that's the other thing that I really enjoy about
my job, that we work together across all the mission areas: research, the academic side,
(33:05):
as well as the extension. You know, we complement each other in one way. And when you think about
what makes us kind of special, you know, like our research strength is really helping our students,
including our undergraduate students, I feel like to get hands-on training and a better real-world
experience as part of their preparation for the real world. So, we produce society-ready graduates
(33:33):
because they work in our labs, right on our farms, gaining that invaluable experience before they go
out into the real world because they don't need to be trained. They are trained by the time they
finish their degrees. (Tim) Well, you know, for example, one... one of your... your other big
(33:53):
pushes was the Digital Ag Farm and getting faculty from all over the different disciplines to that.
Just this past week, uh, one of the faculty members had his robot out at the farm,
and I noticed the undergraduates were from Plant Science... Sciences and Technology, Engineering,
and Computer Science. They were working on that project. That was fascinating how they were all
(34:17):
coming together at different expertises and... and figuring out how to make this robot do what
we wanted... they wanted it to do. (Shibu) There you go, Tim. You explained it. That...
that's what we are hoping for. That's what we want to see, and... and that, should I say,
cross disciplinary collaboration, even at the undergraduate student level, that is helping
(34:41):
us. (Tim) Mhm. Yes. (Shibu) And... and of course, the students are gaining that experience, but they
are some of the best minds that we have. Some of the greatest ideas come out of our students.
Right? (Tim) Right. (Shibu) Our undergraduate students and grad students. (Tim) Because they
look at things a whole different way than... than what maybe the faculty will look at it as.
(35:06):
But... but you mentioned just a minute ago about bringing in the grant money, and you've seen some
very success stories there, haven't you? Where... where we went from a college to... to where we are
now in just a few short years. (Shibu) We have. Tim, when we went through the strategic planning
process back in 2018/2019, uh... after our dean, Dr. Chris Daubert, joined us. He led us through
(35:34):
that process. You remember that time. (Tim) I was part of it. (Shibu) Yes. And so, yes. And I
also was part of it. And... and we had some lofty goals that we established for research, and for
every mission area we had goals. And for research, we established this goal to increase our research
awards and expenditures by 10% every year for the next six years. And if we did that, based on our
(36:03):
baseline numbers back then, we figured that, yeah, we could double where we were back in 2018. And
that was about $40 million dollars in awards and about $40 million in expenditures. And that was,
again, the highest that we had ever achieved, uh, at that point. About $40 million dollars. Fast
(36:26):
forward. In 2025, if you look at what we have accomplished, and that is again, kudos to our
faculty, our staff, and our students. All of you did a phenomenal job going after funding,
(36:46):
bringing in funding, and conducting the research that helps our producers. That raised our profile
big time. So back in 2023, we hit our highest in awards, grant awards. We were close to $118
(37:10):
million dollars. (Tim) So you went from 40 million to 118 in five years? (Shibu) In just four... five
year time frame. Yeah. And we had still two more years left at that point to achieve that goal. But
we exceeded our goal by fiscal year '23. Our target was fiscal year '25. But expenditures.
(37:37):
This past fiscal year in 2025, we exceeded the goal. 80 was the goal,
$80 million dollars. And guess what? We exceeded that. We didn't triple that, but we are, I don't
have all the final numbers, but based on numbers as of now, we stand at $85 plus million dollars in
(38:02):
expenditures. So we met those goals. (Tim) Right. Which were very lofty. (Shibu) Very
lofty. (Tim) Very, very lofty. (Shibu) Very lofty. And... and when we established the goal,
it was an aspirational goal, right? And a lot of people looked at me and said, "Why? It...
it... it's an impossible goal? With the number of faculty we have and the size of our college,
(38:29):
that's an impossible target." Well, we made the impossible possible thanks to our faculty, staff,
and students. (Tim) And you didn't do it by doubling your faculty size. (Shibu) No, no,
no. Good... good... good point, Tim. (Tim) You did this by... (Shibu) Yeah. So again, kudos to
(38:51):
our faculty because we increased our faculty numbers in research. When I look at numbers,
I, you know, this is the FTE. We increased the faculty FTE during the same time by about 11%.
But doubled. (Tim) 100% (Shibu) Or tripled. (Tim) Yes. (Shibu) Yeah. So you can see a lot
(39:15):
of it is based on not new faculty. Even when we increase, bring in new faculty on board,
you cannot expect them to... to start bringing in big grants and... and a lot of funding right away.
And there are some who will do that. But a lot of our increases happen because of our
existing faculty and going after bigger funding opportunities. Especially as we discussed earlier,
(39:43):
those multidisciplinary, interdisciplinary kind of opportunities. (Tim) And that will attract
other faculty who want to work in a group... in a situation like this. That they can work with the
engineers and the med school and such. (Shibu) Yeah. And Tim, you know this very well because
you yourself do this almost every day. You have collaborations, I know, with faculty from other
(40:06):
colleges and including engineering and... and, yeah. So I think our faculty are doing that more
and more. (Tim) And but, but you have a... but you... you probably have a... a dream that is
also lofty, and... and you're working to get that come together where we look at our soils,
(40:29):
our plants and our animals and our people as if we can make one healthy, we can... we
can make the other healthy and finally, ourselves healthy. (Shibu) That is true, Tim. And that could
be our next big center or institute that we could dream about, you know? Like a one health concept,
but broadening that all the way down to soil health. (Tim) Yes. (Shibu) Of course, you know,
(40:53):
one health we often hear about, you know, animal health and human health coming together, but we
know, at least in a college of ag, how important these other two components you mentioned,
you know, like the soil health and then, of course, the plant and animal health because the
(41:14):
soil health, healthy soils will lead to healthy food through healthy plants and healthy animals,
leading to healthy human beings. So that one health concept, we do that so very well
in our college and on our campus because we are blessed to have a wonderful College of Ag, Food,
(41:37):
and Natural Resources. Our college where we study healthy soils, healthy plants,
and healthy animals. And then of course, we work with our College of Vet Medicine and also our
School of Medicine. We have joint appointments, and we have joint faculty. And so our campus
(42:01):
can really build on this broader, one-health concept better than many other universities in
the country. (Tim) And that could really blaze all new trails that we haven't even thought about yet,
and... (Shibu) Yes. Endless possibilities. (Tim) You know, one of the things I noticed about... about
you, you will talk about it and do it. And... and the restructuring of the Ag Experiment Station,
(42:29):
every... every ag experiment station, there's 50 of them in the United States, talks about it,
but we're probably the only one that did it to that point that we did. So, what's... talk to...
talk to us a little bit about that. (Shibu) Oh, thank you, Tim, for bringing that up. And... and
you come from, you know, well... I've been also part of our previous structure, and you've been
(42:52):
part of that too, and we both, um... understand, you know, where we came from. And there was a lot
of displeasure, you know, if I put it out there frankly. You know, like people were unhappy,
uh... even within as well as even externally. So both internal and external, right? Because
(43:14):
we all knew we could do it better, but how? We were struggling with that. And we wanted to be a
relevant experiment station for our stakeholders, and we felt like, you know, we were not really
fulfilling the land grant mission like the way we wanted to fulfill. So we put our brains together.
(43:37):
I remember that first report came out of I asked the superintendents, you know, to come up with,
"Okay. What is working? What is not working?" And of course, the superintendents group made it very
clear each time, "We should do something." And of course, we didn't know what that something would
(43:58):
mean. And over a couple of years of brainstorming, we realized, and after receiving feedback, you
know, from a... a national group of our peers and from our stakeholders, and... and after gathering
all of that data, we decided, "Okay. Maybe this is what we need to try." And that's what we tried
(44:19):
and put together. And it was a lot of work. And... and I'm not saying it was easy, but as you said,
you know, every experiment station talks about it, but I don't believe we are the only one,
but there are only a handful of places where we have gone through the whole nine yard
(44:40):
implementing all the changes, you know, like the way we wanted to make. And... and in our case,
you know, we had 22 different scattered farms and centers, and each one pretty
much acting/functioning independently. What we do was, we tried to bring them together under four
(45:01):
regional centers. But we also wanted to make sure that these regional centers had a different name
rather than just 'research'. We wanted to bring the land grant mission to those communities. All
three land grant missions (45:16):
research, extension and education. So we rebranded them as REECs. So we
have a Northern Missouri REEC, and we put three farms up north together under one leadership,
under a director. Central Missouri REEC (Research, Extension, Education Center) with a director,
(45:42):
but about 7,000 acres coming together. Multiple farms under one leadership. And then Southwest
REEC. And then Southeast REEC, but that is called the Fisher Delta REEC. And based on the feedback
that we have received from our stakeholders, yes, it was not just a restructuring for the
(46:05):
sake of restructuring, but bringing us closer to our stakeholders and bringing them closer to
us because they saw relevance in what we do for those communities. Essentially, making them truly
the front porch of the University of Missouri and CAFNR in those communities. And... and
(46:28):
you have seen the benefit of what we have done. (Tim) Oh, yeah! Because too often, our neighbors
didn't even know what we did. But now they do. Because another thing that you did as part of
that was what we're doing right now. Improve our communications. (Shibu) Yes. (Tim) And getting
our communications to our stakeholders, and them understanding what... what we're doing... doing,
and what we are doing for them. (Shibu) Yeah. (Tim) And... and listening to them is... is important
(46:55):
too. (Shibu) It is. And as you know, the Hatch Act made the experiment stations possible throughout
the country. And it is thanks to William Henry Hatch, who was a Missouri congressman, that we
got the experiment station funding, the experiment station model, and... and research became a real
(47:18):
formal thing, a focus at land grant universities. But, the vision of William Henry Hatch was not to
have it all at the main campus. He really wanted to take the research to those communities, and
that's why we have all these farms. And then, why again? To make it relevant for those communities,
(47:42):
and that's why we have those regional centers. But, you are absolutely right. We did certain
things, but they didn't know. But now as part of the restructuring, of course! We restructured
advisory boards. We have advisory boards for the local farms. We have advisory boards for
(48:03):
the regional centers. And we also established an advisory board at the state level for the
state AES advisory board. Most of our agency heads, commodity group leaders, and of course,
our farmers serve on those... those boards. And we continuously try to get feedback from them,
(48:28):
trying to make us even more relevant. What else can we do to help you? (Tim) That's
right. (Shibu) Right? And then send that information to them through our newsletters.
So every REEC has got a newsletter. Tim, you are my Director... (Tim) That's right. (Shibu) ...of
Communications for... for the REECs, for the AES, and you started this podcast. And you have,
(48:52):
thanks to Cheryl, we have, you know, YouTube channels, and... and we have a number of ways by
which we connect... (Tim) That's right. (Shibu) ...with our... with our stakeholders today. And I,
my very first month, started a newsletter of my own. It's called the Research Digest. So I send
(49:12):
that out every other week. It reaches not just our internal audience. It goes out to all our
external stakeholders also. So they get to see what's going on in our college, on our farms,
at least on a bi-weekly basis. But we have these multiple channels now that we use to communicate
(49:33):
with our stakeholders. (Tim) And it's continu... continuing to grow. It's continuing to change to
the... to what we need to do, and... and that's what's important. We can't be static. (Shibu) We
cannot. (Tim) Just like our research, we cannot be static. (Shibu) We cannot. Because it keeps
changing, right? (Tim) It does. (Shibu) You know, like yeah. And if you talk to my 15 year-old,
(49:54):
if it is not on Instagram, it doesn't exist. (Tim) That's right. (Shibu) Right? And that's where
he... and he learns about everything that's happening in this world before I even tell,
"Joshua, did you hear about this?" Of course he has already heard about it! I just learned.
"How did you?" Well, Instagram. Right? So it's... they derive their information in a different way,
(50:15):
and we need to be on top of that... (Tim) We do. (Shibu) ...to reach, you know, the... our younger,
our... our younger farmers and younger audience. (Tim) When I meet with peers across the nation,
they were very interested in our restructuring, how far we went (we pulled the p... we ripped
the Band-Aid off), and our communications because they realized that is the future. And... and...
(50:37):
and under your leadership, we were able to get to the future. (Shibu) Oh, thank you, Tim. You're so
kind. (Tim) You're welcome. Well, we've got to end for today. We could talk forever about research,
and... and what all we're doing! But, um... Dr. Jose, thank you so much for coming and, uh... this
podcast. And thanks for supporting us cuz you are the ones that... you are the one that supports us
(51:00):
doing this. (Shibu) Well, thank you, Tim. I really enjoyed it. Appreciate the opportunity to talk
to you and being on your Tim's Take. (Tim) All right! (Shibu) Thank you. (Tim) Thank you. Well,
this is it for Tim's Take! Now, check us out next time, and we'll see you later. Bye!
[♫]
[♫]
(Tim Reinbott) Well, welcome to Tim's Take! And today, we have a very, very special guest.
This is my boss, so let's be good here! Uh, this is Dr. Shibu Jose. He is currently the
Associate Dean for Research at... in the College of Agriculture, Food and Natural Resources. But,
(00:25):
you also have another even bigger title, Director of the Ag Experiment Station, and that's where we
fall in under this. Now, but Shibu, tell us about yourself. (Shibu Jose) Yeah, thank you, Tim. Um,
I appreciate first of all this opportunity to join the famous Tim's Take. So, appreciate
it. (Tim) Just took two years for it to get you here. (Shibu) So, I grew up on a small farm in
(00:50):
India. It was my grandma's farm. Very small. If you look at the small farm definition for the US,
you know, this farm, you won't even call it a farm because it's third of an acre. That's what it was.
But it was an agroforestry farm. That means we had trees. Uh, we had, um... you know, timber trees,
(01:19):
nut trees, fruit trees. You name it. We also had some spice trees, but we also had coconut palms.
We had a little bit of rice paddy and... and milking cow and... and so, it... it's a small farm
that fits the definition of a tropical home garden agroforest. So, I'll tell you a story about how
(01:49):
I really got interested in like, agriculture and forestry and soils. So when I was in fifth grade,
uh... the government of India had this program called Social Forestry, trying to promote tree planting
on farms. Of course, our farm had plenty of trees to begin with, but still, I brought
(02:13):
this tiny seedling that I got from school. Uh, seedling of a very precious tree called
sandalwood. And it is called liquid gold because the oil extracted from sandalwood is used to make,
uh, perfumes, and so it's... it's highly valuable. I knew that much at least. So I brought the...
(02:38):
the... the tiny seedling home, and I wanted to plant it in a very special place because,
uh... it is a very special species, right? It's a very special tree. So I found the only place where
we didn't have any trees, that is kind of the... the front yard. Cannot call it a driveway because
(02:58):
we didn't have a car, or it's not a driveway. It's the front yard. A tiny space where we didn't have
any trees, or any plants for that matter. So I found the perfect spot right in the middle of
that. And... and I was about to plant this tiny seedling, and my grandma came to me and asked,
"What are you doing?" And I said, "Grandma, this is a very special tree called sandalwood,
(03:20):
and I want to plant it right here." And grandma said, 'No, you cannot plant it here." And I asked
her, "Why?" And she said, "No. It... it... this tiny plant needs a mother." And I was looking at
grandma, and I told her, "Grandma, no. You're pulling my leg." And she said, "No, I'm not.
(03:41):
It needs a mommy." Then I asked her why, and she said, "Oh, it needs a mom to... to nourish her,
to nurse, you know, this, not her, nourish it, to take care of it." And I claimed to Grandma
that no, she didn't know anything. And... and of course, Grandma only had a fourth
(04:01):
grade schooling and I was in fifth grade, so I felt like I was at least a grade above her.
But Grandma finally convinced me that I needed to plant that tiny seedling near another big tree,
and that big tree would become its mom and would take care of that tiny seedling. Of course,
(04:23):
Grandma won and I made, you know, that choice to plant it near another big tree. And... and
time passed by, and it was not until I was a senior in college that I learned what Grandma
was trying to teach me. Of course, she didn't know the ecology or the physiology behind any of it,
(04:47):
but she knew based on the traditional knowledge that had been transferred to her from generation
to generation that the sandalwood needed a mom. And I learned in college that sandalwood is what
we call a hemi-root parasite. It puts its roots into the roots of these bigger plants.
(05:12):
And that's how it gets its water and its nutrients more efficiently. Poor Grandma didn't know the,
you know, the... the scientific facts, but she knew it needed a mom. (Tim) The power
of observation. (Shibu) The power of observation. Not by her, but... or by herself, but passed on to
(05:35):
her through generations. Maybe she learned that on her own, too. I don't know. But Grandma knew quite
a bit. I always appreciated how much she knew after I studied some of these things in college,
and I could then figure out how good she was in putting the right species in the right place for
(05:55):
the right reasons, creating that home garden agroforestry farm for the family. Of course,
that led me to pursue my degree from the Kerala Agriculture University. Uh, and I gravitated more
towards forestry and learned quite a bit. Came to the US. Had the opportunity to study agroforestry,
(06:22):
trying to put multiple species together as a farm unit just like the way my grandma was managing our
tiny farm. Then I learned how difficult it was. I was just trying to put two species together,
corn and black walnut in Indiana. Trying to... trying to create an alley cropping system. And
(06:48):
similarly, you know, soybean and also black walnut. We had another species, red oak. So
that's... that was the combination, either corn or soybean with either black walnut or red oak. Two
valuable tree species. Mixing them together with two valuable crops, corn and soybean,
so important for the Midwest. Then I learned how difficult it was. But then I appreciated even...
(07:15):
even more the knowledge that my grandma had in putting, you know, the rice and the coconut palms
and the trees and the animals all together on a tiny piece of land. But I learned the scientific
principles and spent a career investigating how crops and trees interact. How can we make them
(07:36):
a sustainable system on the same piece of land. (Tim) And there at Purdue, you really emphasized
soils too, didn't you? (Shibu) Exactly. I was looking at the belowground interactions,
you know, root-to-root interactions when you put these crops and trees together. Because of course,
(07:57):
you will suspect that the trees being bigger, you know, they would compete so heavily with corn or
soybean, but that's not necessarily true. When the trees are younger, the crops can compete even more
vigorously with those young, tiny seedlings. So if you don't alleviate that competition early on,
(08:20):
the trees don't have a chance to survive. But as the trees grow, of course, they put a lot more
roots, and that competition becomes more intense than for water and for nutrients with the crops.
And then the crops will suffer. And if you don't take that... take care of that competition for
(08:41):
light, for water, for nutrients, then you won't have a crop. Corn, being a C4 plant,
doesn't have a chance under shade. But through my research I showed that, yes, of course,
that reduces yield somewhat, but the competition below ground in the soil for water and nutrients,
(09:03):
that was the key in making that system work. So what we did was we alleviated that by trenching
on both sides of the trees, that way separating the root systems of the trees from that of the...
the corn or soybean. And then of course, we saw the yield come back just like the monoculture
outside of the alley cropping. So we proved that, you know, the belowground competition was so
(09:30):
important in the sustainability of that system in the long run. (Tim) What I like about that, it's
the... it's the basic physiology, but also the production and... and getting into the soil also
that it put it all together. (Shibu) Yes, it... it is putting it all together, but not just the,
(09:52):
you know, the agronomics or the physiology of the crops or the trees, but also the economics.
Because by the end of the day, farmers should make money out of farming. (Tim) And we forget
that sometimes, don't we? It's easy to get so involved in our science that we forget that there
is a return on that investment. (Shibu) Yeah. So, so agroforestry as... as a system with, you know,
(10:18):
multiple species put together, the beauty of that is, let's say crop prices are low for one crop,
then you have another crop that may somehow give you that buffer. Or your trees are still,
you know, growing, and one day you will reap the benefit of growing a woody component as part of
(10:39):
your farm. So, it... it has multiple benefits. (Tim) There's a early and then there's a medium...
and medium maybe, where both are growing well, the crops and the trees, then there's that mature
where your trees are going to be your... your... your wood product or your nut product or... or
such. (Shibu) That is true. That is true. And you may also get to a point where the shading is so,
(11:02):
so intense that you may not... you may not be able to grow a crop underneath. You may want to convert
that to a pasture at that. (Tim) Right. (Shibu) So you have to figure out what's your end goal.
What's your intention in creating a system like that? In my grandma's case, of course,
it worked. We had all these things. If you go back there, of course, my grandma passed away in 1991,
(11:23):
but the farm is still there... (Tim) Is it? (Shibu) and... and we still have... we don't have
any rice anymore, but we still have pretty much all the... all the trees. And... and you'll see
bananas growing in the underneath, you know, the under the shade and... and all kinds of other annuals
and... and... and perennials under these big trees. (Tim) That's so interesting that everything
was planted for a reason and where it was planted. (Shibu) Yep. We... we never bought, as far as
(11:50):
I can remember, we got almost all our fruits from our small, tiny farm. Pineapples, bananas,
uh... mangoes, you know, you name it, we had it on our farm. (Tim) Someone said, "Well, that's
a tropical to subtropical climate, but you can do that on temperate climates, too." (Shibu) You
(12:13):
can. (Tim) It's different, but... but you can. (Shibu) Yeah. You can... if you... if you have
a small farm. If you want to diversify. You know, it is a possibility. Or even on a large farm, if
you want to, you know, try some other high-value crops. And... and you've seen the work of the
Center for Agroforestry and... and elderberry or Chinese chestnuts or even pecans or black walnuts.
(12:37):
You know, there are all sorts of opportunities available out there. (Tim) But there's, what? Five
different parts of agroforestry? (Shibu) Yes. Five major practices of agroforestry. (Tim) Practices.
Yes. What are... what are those? (Shibu) Well, um... alley cropping, the one that I studied is
one. Of course, silvopasture is perhaps the... the fastest growing, uh, agroforestry practice in the
(13:02):
US. And... and... and... and you have windbreaks. You know, that's how in the United States we
really got started in agroforestry in a big way because following the Dust Bowl, you remember all
the tree plantings. (Tim) Yes. (Shibu) And, yeah. Uh, the Great Plains in particular and... and so,
windbreaks became our first formal agroforestry practice in the 30s and 40s. And riparian buffers,
(13:29):
that's another, uh... major practice protecting the, you know, the water bodies. And... and the
last one is forest farming. Essentially, you know, a similar concept to that of the
tropical home garden where I grew up. You have the forest, or you have the trees, and then you have
(13:50):
the clearings, or openings, underneath where you try to grow other crops. And... and so,
those are the five major practices. There is a sixth one that is becoming also common these days.
Urban food forest. And... and so, it's almost like an extension of the urban agriculture. (Tim) Well,
(14:11):
after you got your P... MS and PhD at Purdue, you went on to Florida. (Shibu) That's right. I
started my faculty career at Florida. But there was a short period before that that I went to
Minnesota as a postdoc, and I had the pleasure of working with, uh, some really well-renowned
(14:32):
ecologists on the prairie ecosystem. So, so when I think about my training, that's why,
you know, I... I... I call myself, you know, like, uh... an ecologist, broadly trained ecologist,
but primarily in the belowground processes as a soil scientist, you know, like you said earlier.
Um, why? Because, of course, if you go back and look at my undergraduate degree, I did a thesis
(15:00):
looking at soils comparing the prairie soils with forest soils. And, and fast forward, you know,
even as part of my masters and PhD, I looked into soils and nutrients and plants and interactions,
and then of course, used some of those skills when I went to Minnesota as a postdoc. And there,
(15:24):
we looked at, you know, what happens if there is increased CO2 in the atmosphere? What happens if
there is increased nitrogen deposition? You know. What will happen to the prairies that
we have? So I studied a lot of the grassland species there. But after eight months, I had
the pleasure of packing up everything and moving down to the sunny Florida where I was at a farm,
(15:48):
uh, University of Florida's... West Florida REC (Research and Education Center) and where I taught
and did research and... and... and so, of course, I studied a lot of the... the southern variants
of agroforestry. That was one of my interests. And so, I looked into cotton because cotton was
a major crop. And... and so in Indiana, I had the pleasure of studying corn and soybean. Back home,
(16:14):
I grew up with rice. And... and in Minnesota, I studied the prairie grassland... (Tim) Wow.
(Shibu) ...you know, species. And... and then at Florida, I had the pleasure of looking at some of
the southern crops, like cotton and peanuts, and how do you grow them with some woody perennials
like pecan, because pecan orchards used to be very common in the northwest, uh, part of
(16:39):
Florida. So that's what I was trying to look at. How can you make use of all this space in between
the pecan trees? Can you grow cotton? Or can you grow peanut? And pines are also so important to
the economy of the South. And I particularly like this longleaf pine, the long needled pine. And...
(17:01):
and so I started working with longleaf pine. And again, trying to combine longleaf pine with cotton
and peanuts and... and creating that kind of a system so that landowners can make income. Even
if they are trying to restore longleaf, trying to establish a pine plantation, can they earn an
(17:22):
income from the very beginning itself from their cotton or peanut, rather than waiting for 15 years
to harvest these trees? Can you grow something in between? And of course, it's not always possible.
I will admit it. I'll be the first one to admit. But in some systems like the pecan orchard,
(17:43):
when you are planting those trees 60 feet apart, there is a lot of space that you can
utilize early in the establishment phase, maybe for the first 10 years. (Tim) Sure. (Shibu) And...
and... and you are using that space wisely for cotton or... or peanut. So those were the kind of,
uh... agroforestry practices that I worked with, uh... while I was at Florida. But I
(18:07):
was also interested in silvopasture. So I started working on silvopasture because there's a lot of,
uh... cattle, as you can imagine, in Florida. (Tim) Yeah, people think of Florida as a vacation
destination, but it's a huge agricultural. (Shibu) It is. It is. Ag is big in... just like here in
Missouri, in Florida too. (Tim) Right. And not just our... like our subtropicals like oranges,
(18:32):
but it's like you... like you mentioned, the major crops, peanuts and cotton and
even soybeans! (Shibu) Cattle and soybeans (Tim) Livestock. Yes. (Shibu) Yes. (Tim) Well,
you must have did pretty good because they asked you to come up to Missouri to head our
agroforestry. (Shibu) That... that is right. I think I... my... my experience working with the
(18:53):
diverse systems of agroforestry... obviously, caught the attention of some of the folks here.
So I started getting calls about this opportunity to come and lead the best temperate agroforestry
center in the world. I'm so proud that, you know, we have that in our college, College of
(19:15):
Agriculture, Food and Natural Resources. As you know, they just hosted the 19th,
uh... North American Agroforestry Conference last week... (Tim) Right. (Shibu) ...uh,
with over 200 people attending. So this is by far the... the best temperate agroforestry program in
the whole world. And it was even back then. (Tim) About 2009? Is that when you came? (Shibu) 2009.
(19:40):
So I got a call from the founding director, Dr. Gene Garrett, informing me about this wonderful
opportunity and the fact that he was about to retire, and they were about to open the search
and... and there was going to be a huge endowment, you know, and it was going to be an endowed chair
professorship and everything was attractive. And I had just become a full professor at the
(20:00):
University of Florida at that point, but... and we had just built our house about a year
before that. (Tim) And you had two little boys! (Shibu) And you're right! Before I moved here,
my other... my younger son was just born, and... but we made that decision, uh... to move because
it seemed like a wonderful opportunity, first, to come to the University of Missouri and to a
(20:25):
very well-known, uh... center. Back then we called it a signature program in the college. Now it is,
uh, what we call a Program of Distinction in our college, but also an endowed chair professorship.
That was something very attractive. So I came in as the Director of the Center and the Garrett
(20:45):
Endowed Chair Professor. And so it was... it was a great time. (Tim) But you also must have made an
impression because then they asked you to lead an even bigger organization with the School of
Natural Resources. (Shibu) I had the fortune, I would say. Yes. After being the Director of
the Center, and also you may recall, Tim, I also held the role as the Superintendent... (Tim) Oh,
(21:10):
that's right. (Shibu) ...of the Horticulture and Agroforestry Farm for about five... six years,
and... and so I had a number of ex... you know, leadership experiences, I would say. And when
the time came, and they were looking for a new director for the School of Natural Resources,
I applied for it. And I applied, and... and it was a national, uh, search, and... and luckily, I
(21:33):
was one of the finalists, and to make a long story short, I was offered the job, and I took it! But I
felt like, you know, after serving agroforestry for, uh, at that point about seven and a half
to eight years, it was time for me to... to maybe move on to another leadership opportunity, and...
and it was a wonderful, wonderful opportunity for me to lead, uh, the School of Natural Resources as
(21:58):
its Director. (Tim) Because again, it's... it's even more diversified now. You've got fisheries,
and... but you've got what you love too, forestry and soils and... (Shibu) Oh! (Tim) ...and tourisms
in here now. It's... it... it's such a... a diverse, and probably one of our signature
divisions in... in the whole, um, campus. (Shibu) Yeah. Uh, the School of Natural Resources is,
(22:20):
as... as you know, one of the six divisions in our... in our college. Uh, a division with nearly,
at this point, uh... 1,000 students. And... and as you said, Tim, it's so diverse, right? It's
the home of soil science as an academic, you know, program, and... and as you said, it...
(22:42):
it goes from forestry to wildlife to... to soils to the social sciences, like parks, recreation and
tourism, environmental sciences, water resources, you name it. (Tim) Right. (Shibu) And atmospheric
sciences. It is so diverse! And it was fun for me. (Tim) Because it all comes together. (Shibu) Oh,
(23:03):
it all. (Tim) It all... yes. (Shibu) I used to... I used to call our school as the most
comprehensive schools of its nature in the country. (Tim) In the country? (Shibu) Because...
because of, yeah. Because of the breadth as well as the depth of what we covered in the
school. (Tim) And as always, when... when you do a... a great job, other opportunities open up,
(23:28):
don't they? And... and... and you're asked to lead even bigger. (Shibu) That is true. That is true.
(Tim Reinbott) Now you're successful. You're in the ideal situation in the Director of... of the
School of Natural Resources, but the college came calling, didn't it? (Dr. Shibu Jose) Yes,
it did. And... and I had, again, I had great fun running the School of Natural Resources. It was
(23:53):
a time when we, as you know very well, Tim, you know, we went through some, uh... fiscal,
uh... challenges during the two years when I served as the Director of the School of Natural
Resources. But with faculty support, I took the school through a major restructuring and... and,
(24:13):
uh... we also had begun the process of, uh... the degree restructuring in the school, and we
completed all of that. And... and, uh... we used to have four different degree programs. We brought
that to three, and... and... and each program has grown tremendously since then! And... and so,
that was all, you know, the... the fun part of it. I'm not saying it was fun while doing,
(24:38):
but it was challenging! But still, we did. The faculty came together, and we accomplished a
number of things. And... and we were also able to hire, despite some of our financial challenges,
we were able to hire 12 faculty, and... and seven of them, you know, tenure track faculty, including
a number of, you know, female faculty. And so, it was a great time. I really enjoyed that. And...
(25:03):
and... and, but then the opportunity came up. The Dean came to me one day and pretty much said,
"Shibu, remember our conversation we talked about, and you asked me about the... the search for the next
Associate Dean for Research and the Director of the Experiment Station? I told you that,
(25:28):
'Yeah, we are negotiating, but if it does not work out, I'm not too worried. I have a plan B.'" And
he looked at me and said, "Well, I didn't tell you what my plan B was, but today I can tell you. You
are my plan B." And of course, it was an honor. (Tim) But now, just like your farm growing up,
(25:49):
the diversity of what you have to oversee is tremendous now! (Shibu) It is! And... and I feel
blessed because I've had all this experience. You know, like living on a farm, for example.
Growing up on a farm. But even as a PhD student, I spent, you know... and even as a master student,
(26:12):
altogether I spent about four years... five years on a farm in Indiana, and that's where I learned
how to... because the tiny third of an acre farm didn't have anything mechanical. We did everything
by hand. But coming to the US when I started working with corn and soybean,
I learned how to... to drive a tractor. How to use a planter. How to use a sprayer. Don Biehle,
(26:38):
you may recognize that name. (Tim) Oh, yes. Yes! (Shibu) Yeah. He was the Farm Manager at
SEPAC (Southeast Purdue Ag Center) who taught me everything I needed to... to know to run a farm.
But he gave me that opportunity to learn and... and... and use the equipment on my own. So that
was a great learning experience. The diverse experience really prepared me for this job,
(27:03):
as you said. Of course, as the Associate Dean for Research and the Director of the Experiment
Station, I'm overseeing multiple things. The research enterprise of our college. Our portfolio
is so broad, right? Plant Science, Animal Science, Food Science, Social Science... (Tim) School of
(27:31):
Natural Resources! (Shibu) Of course, of course. And even, you know, we have two divisions where we
have joined faculty with the School of Medicine. And we have faculty jointly appointed through,
for example, College of Engineering. And so, we have all kinds of partnerships and collaborations.
(27:51):
And so, what we do is so diverse, but it's all within the broad umbrella of Agriculture, Food,
and Natural Resources. And I feel like, you know, living on farm in Indiana and
then my first faculty career, although it was with the University of Florida,
my first six years I was on a farm 5 and a half hours away from campus. So when I have the title
(28:18):
as... as the Director of the AES, I feel right at home cuz I was used to, even as a grad student,
living on a farm, part of the Ag Experiment Station network in Indiana. And when I was a
postdoc up in Minnesota, that was another... another farm where I worked. I was part of
the AES of the College of Ag up in Minnesota, and then of course, my career at Florida. I worked at
(28:47):
multiple AES farms. So being the Director of AES, I feel right at home. (Tim) Right! (Shibu) Since
I have worked with colleagues from, if you look at my publications you will see that, although I
got... I got degrees in natural resources, if you look at, I have over 50% of my publications in
(29:13):
agronomy. (Tim) Really? (Shibu) Yeah. And because of my interest in agronomy and soil science,
right? (Tim) Sure. (Shibu) So, so with all of that, at least I can understand and appreciate
the science behind pretty much all the disciplines covered within our college. (Tim) And you've been
(29:36):
able to even expand the faculty in CAFNR and AES more that way. I mean, you've encouraged
them to really branch out, to really... to really collaborate with more and more of each other.
(Shibu) Exactly. And... and that's one thing that our college and our faculty have done really well.
(29:57):
And I, of course, I'm not taking the credit for it, but in the last six years, I've really
promoted that interdisciplinary collaboration. And you know, because we established a number of those
interdisciplinary centers,... (Tim) Right. (Shibu) ...like the Missouri Water Center was the first
(30:20):
one that I worked on, and bringing a group of faculty together from engineering and from our
college and from journalism and from arts and science, trying to create a program where they
can come together and work on water as a precious resource, not for us, but for the whole state,
(30:43):
for Missourians. And that center has done so well, as you know, since we brought it together. And the
Center for Regenerative Ag is another example. And then of course, the Johnny Morris Institute,
and... and you know, I can give you a number of examples, but um... every one of them, you will
(31:04):
see a number of people from the biophysical as well as the socioeconomics coming together
to work on a complex issue that we face for the benefit of the state. (Tim) And... and that's a
fairly new concept, isn't it really? I mean, before we... we seem to be in our silos, our
different disciplines, and didn't work together a lot, especially from... from one college to
(31:29):
a next. So that's... that's really, really to benefit the... the, uh... people in Missouri, but
also every... everyone. (Shibu) It is. And... and that is, of course, the new model, right? Because
these challenges that we face, these are complex challenges. One discipline alone cannot take care
(31:50):
of or resolve, you know, the complex challenges that we face. So we need a team of experts from
different disciplines to come together, and our faculty are doing a great job. And... and
some of these interdisciplinary centers, uh... even Center for Agroforestry is such a center if
you look at the expertise, you know, of people from all sorts of disciplines coming together.
(32:14):
And all of these centers have done a great job in the last few years to go after big, large,
funding opportunities to bring in multi-million dollar grants, and that has really helped
us expand the size and the scope of our CAFNR research enterprise. (Tim) And... and this even
(32:39):
filters down to the undergraduate side of things. Because I know your research, Bryan Garton, is...
is an undergraduate, but this strengthens those other groups too, doesn't it? Them and Extension.
(Shibu) Definitely! Definitely. And that's the... that's the other thing that I really enjoy about
my job, that we work together across all the mission areas: research, the academic side,
(33:05):
as well as the extension. You know, we complement each other in one way. And when you think about
what makes us kind of special, you know, like our research strength is really helping our students,
including our undergraduate students, I feel like to get hands-on training and a better real-world
experience as part of their preparation for the real world. So, we produce society-ready graduates
(33:33):
because they work in our labs, right on our farms, gaining that invaluable experience before they go
out into the real world because they don't need to be trained. They are trained by the time they
finish their degrees. (Tim) Well, you know, for example, one... one of your... your other big
(33:53):
pushes was the Digital Ag Farm and getting faculty from all over the different disciplines to that.
Just this past week, uh, one of the faculty members had his robot out at the farm,
and I noticed the undergraduates were from Plant Science... Sciences and Technology, Engineering,
and Computer Science. They were working on that project. That was fascinating how they were all
(34:17):
coming together at different expertises and... and figuring out how to make this robot do what
we wanted... they wanted it to do. (Shibu) There you go, Tim. You explained it. That...
that's what we are hoping for. That's what we want to see, and... and that, should I say,
cross disciplinary collaboration, even at the undergraduate student level, that is helping
(34:41):
us. (Tim) Mhm. Yes. (Shibu) And... and of course, the students are gaining that experience, but they
are some of the best minds that we have. Some of the greatest ideas come out of our students.
Right? (Tim) Right. (Shibu) Our undergraduate students and grad students. (Tim) Because they
look at things a whole different way than... than what maybe the faculty will look at it as.
(35:06):
But... but you mentioned just a minute ago about bringing in the grant money, and you've seen some
very success stories there, haven't you? Where... where we went from a college to... to where we are
now in just a few short years. (Shibu) We have. Tim, when we went through the strategic planning
process back in 2018/2019, uh... after our dean, Dr. Chris Daubert, joined us. He led us through
(35:34):
that process. You remember that time. (Tim) I was part of it. (Shibu) Yes. And so, yes. And I
also was part of it. And... and we had some lofty goals that we established for research, and for
every mission area we had goals. And for research, we established this goal to increase our research
awards and expenditures by 10% every year for the next six years. And if we did that, based on our
(36:03):
baseline numbers back then, we figured that, yeah, we could double where we were back in 2018. And
that was about $40 million dollars in awards and about $40 million in expenditures. And that was,
again, the highest that we had ever achieved, uh, at that point. About $40 million dollars. Fast
(36:26):
forward. In 2025, if you look at what we have accomplished, and that is again, kudos to our
faculty, our staff, and our students. All of you did a phenomenal job going after funding,
(36:46):
bringing in funding, and conducting the research that helps our producers. That raised our profile
big time. So back in 2023, we hit our highest in awards, grant awards. We were close to $118
(37:10):
million dollars. (Tim) So you went from 40 million to 118 in five years? (Shibu) In just four... five
year time frame. Yeah. And we had still two more years left at that point to achieve that goal. But
we exceeded our goal by fiscal year '23. Our target was fiscal year '25. But expenditures.
(37:37):
This past fiscal year in 2025, we exceeded the goal. 80 was the goal,
$80 million dollars. And guess what? We exceeded that. We didn't triple that, but we are, I don't
have all the final numbers, but based on numbers as of now, we stand at $85 plus million dollars in
(38:02):
expenditures. So we met those goals. (Tim) Right. Which were very lofty. (Shibu) Very
lofty. (Tim) Very, very lofty. (Shibu) Very lofty. And... and when we established the goal,
it was an aspirational goal, right? And a lot of people looked at me and said, "Why? It...
it... it's an impossible goal? With the number of faculty we have and the size of our college,
(38:29):
that's an impossible target." Well, we made the impossible possible thanks to our faculty, staff,
and students. (Tim) And you didn't do it by doubling your faculty size. (Shibu) No, no,
no. Good... good... good point, Tim. (Tim) You did this by... (Shibu) Yeah. So again, kudos to
(38:51):
our faculty because we increased our faculty numbers in research. When I look at numbers,
I, you know, this is the FTE. We increased the faculty FTE during the same time by about 11%.
But doubled. (Tim) 100% (Shibu) Or tripled. (Tim) Yes. (Shibu) Yeah. So you can see a lot
(39:15):
of it is based on not new faculty. Even when we increase, bring in new faculty on board,
you cannot expect them to... to start bringing in big grants and... and a lot of funding right away.
And there are some who will do that. But a lot of our increases happen because of our
existing faculty and going after bigger funding opportunities. Especially as we discussed earlier,
(39:43):
those multidisciplinary, interdisciplinary kind of opportunities. (Tim) And that will attract
other faculty who want to work in a group... in a situation like this. That they can work with the
engineers and the med school and such. (Shibu) Yeah. And Tim, you know this very well because
you yourself do this almost every day. You have collaborations, I know, with faculty from other
(40:06):
colleges and including engineering and... and, yeah. So I think our faculty are doing that more
and more. (Tim) And but, but you have a... but you... you probably have a... a dream that is
also lofty, and... and you're working to get that come together where we look at our soils,
(40:29):
our plants and our animals and our people as if we can make one healthy, we can... we
can make the other healthy and finally, ourselves healthy. (Shibu) That is true, Tim. And that could
be our next big center or institute that we could dream about, you know? Like a one health concept,
but broadening that all the way down to soil health. (Tim) Yes. (Shibu) Of course, you know,
(40:53):
one health we often hear about, you know, animal health and human health coming together, but we
know, at least in a college of ag, how important these other two components you mentioned,
you know, like the soil health and then, of course, the plant and animal health because the
(41:14):
soil health, healthy soils will lead to healthy food through healthy plants and healthy animals,
leading to healthy human beings. So that one health concept, we do that so very well
in our college and on our campus because we are blessed to have a wonderful College of Ag, Food,
(41:37):
and Natural Resources. Our college where we study healthy soils, healthy plants,
and healthy animals. And then of course, we work with our College of Vet Medicine and also our
School of Medicine. We have joint appointments, and we have joint faculty. And so our campus
(42:01):
can really build on this broader, one-health concept better than many other universities in
the country. (Tim) And that could really blaze all new trails that we haven't even thought about yet,
and... (Shibu) Yes. Endless possibilities. (Tim) You know, one of the things I noticed about... about
you, you will talk about it and do it. And... and the restructuring of the Ag Experiment Station,
(42:29):
every... every ag experiment station, there's 50 of them in the United States, talks about it,
but we're probably the only one that did it to that point that we did. So, what's... talk to...
talk to us a little bit about that. (Shibu) Oh, thank you, Tim, for bringing that up. And... and
you come from, you know, well... I've been also part of our previous structure, and you've been
(42:52):
part of that too, and we both, um... understand, you know, where we came from. And there was a lot
of displeasure, you know, if I put it out there frankly. You know, like people were unhappy,
uh... even within as well as even externally. So both internal and external, right? Because
(43:14):
we all knew we could do it better, but how? We were struggling with that. And we wanted to be a
relevant experiment station for our stakeholders, and we felt like, you know, we were not really
fulfilling the land grant mission like the way we wanted to fulfill. So we put our brains together.
(43:37):
I remember that first report came out of I asked the superintendents, you know, to come up with,
"Okay. What is working? What is not working?" And of course, the superintendents group made it very
clear each time, "We should do something." And of course, we didn't know what that something would
(43:58):
mean. And over a couple of years of brainstorming, we realized, and after receiving feedback, you
know, from a... a national group of our peers and from our stakeholders, and... and after gathering
all of that data, we decided, "Okay. Maybe this is what we need to try." And that's what we tried
(44:19):
and put together. And it was a lot of work. And... and I'm not saying it was easy, but as you said,
you know, every experiment station talks about it, but I don't believe we are the only one,
but there are only a handful of places where we have gone through the whole nine yard
(44:40):
implementing all the changes, you know, like the way we wanted to make. And... and in our case,
you know, we had 22 different scattered farms and centers, and each one pretty
much acting/functioning independently. What we do was, we tried to bring them together under four
(45:01):
regional centers. But we also wanted to make sure that these regional centers had a different name
rather than just 'research'. We wanted to bring the land grant mission to those communities. All
three land grant missions (45:16):
research, extension and education. So we rebranded them as REECs. So we
have a Northern Missouri REEC, and we put three farms up north together under one leadership,
under a director. Central Missouri REEC (Research, Extension, Education Center) with a director,
(45:42):
but about 7,000 acres coming together. Multiple farms under one leadership. And then Southwest
REEC. And then Southeast REEC, but that is called the Fisher Delta REEC. And based on the feedback
that we have received from our stakeholders, yes, it was not just a restructuring for the
(46:05):
sake of restructuring, but bringing us closer to our stakeholders and bringing them closer to
us because they saw relevance in what we do for those communities. Essentially, making them truly
the front porch of the University of Missouri and CAFNR in those communities. And... and
(46:28):
you have seen the benefit of what we have done. (Tim) Oh, yeah! Because too often, our neighbors
didn't even know what we did. But now they do. Because another thing that you did as part of
that was what we're doing right now. Improve our communications. (Shibu) Yes. (Tim) And getting
our communications to our stakeholders, and them understanding what... what we're doing... doing,
and what we are doing for them. (Shibu) Yeah. (Tim) And... and listening to them is... is important
(46:55):
too. (Shibu) It is. And as you know, the Hatch Act made the experiment stations possible throughout
the country. And it is thanks to William Henry Hatch, who was a Missouri congressman, that we
got the experiment station funding, the experiment station model, and... and research became a real
(47:18):
formal thing, a focus at land grant universities. But, the vision of William Henry Hatch was not to
have it all at the main campus. He really wanted to take the research to those communities, and
that's why we have all these farms. And then, why again? To make it relevant for those communities,
(47:42):
and that's why we have those regional centers. But, you are absolutely right. We did certain
things, but they didn't know. But now as part of the restructuring, of course! We restructured
advisory boards. We have advisory boards for the local farms. We have advisory boards for
(48:03):
the regional centers. And we also established an advisory board at the state level for the
state AES advisory board. Most of our agency heads, commodity group leaders, and of course,
our farmers serve on those... those boards. And we continuously try to get feedback from them,
(48:28):
trying to make us even more relevant. What else can we do to help you? (Tim) That's
right. (Shibu) Right? And then send that information to them through our newsletters.
So every REEC has got a newsletter. Tim, you are my Director... (Tim) That's right. (Shibu) ...of
Communications for... for the REECs, for the AES, and you started this podcast. And you have,
(48:52):
thanks to Cheryl, we have, you know, YouTube channels, and... and we have a number of ways by
which we connect... (Tim) That's right. (Shibu) ...with our... with our stakeholders today. And I,
my very first month, started a newsletter of my own. It's called the Research Digest. So I send
(49:12):
that out every other week. It reaches not just our internal audience. It goes out to all our
external stakeholders also. So they get to see what's going on in our college, on our farms,
at least on a bi-weekly basis. But we have these multiple channels now that we use to communicate
(49:33):
with our stakeholders. (Tim) And it's continu... continuing to grow. It's continuing to change to
the... to what we need to do, and... and that's what's important. We can't be static. (Shibu) We
cannot. (Tim) Just like our research, we cannot be static. (Shibu) We cannot. Because it keeps
changing, right? (Tim) It does. (Shibu) You know, like yeah. And if you talk to my 15 year-old,
(49:54):
if it is not on Instagram, it doesn't exist. (Tim) That's right. (Shibu) Right? And that's where
he... and he learns about everything that's happening in this world before I even tell,
"Joshua, did you hear about this?" Of course he has already heard about it! I just learned.
"How did you?" Well, Instagram. Right? So it's... they derive their information in a different way,
(50:15):
and we need to be on top of that... (Tim) We do. (Shibu) ...to reach, you know, the... our younger,
our... our younger farmers and younger audience. (Tim) When I meet with peers across the nation,
they were very interested in our restructuring, how far we went (we pulled the p... we ripped
the Band-Aid off), and our communications because they realized that is the future. And... and...
(50:37):
and under your leadership, we were able to get to the future. (Shibu) Oh, thank you, Tim. You're so
kind. (Tim) You're welcome. Well, we've got to end for today. We could talk forever about research,
and... and what all we're doing! But, um... Dr. Jose, thank you so much for coming and, uh... this
podcast. And thanks for supporting us cuz you are the ones that... you are the one that supports us
(51:00):
doing this. (Shibu) Well, thank you, Tim. I really enjoyed it. Appreciate the opportunity to talk
to you and being on your Tim's Take. (Tim) All right! (Shibu) Thank you. (Tim) Thank you. Well,
this is it for Tim's Take! Now, check us out next time, and we'll see you later. Bye!
[♫]
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