November 24, 2025 • 26 mins
In this episode, we speak with Alicia McDonnell, from Manchester Airports Group, who shares her experience supporting neurodiverse employees and amplifying voices across early- and mid-career stages. She explores how organisations can move beyond diversity statements to meaningful, day-to-day action, and offers practical insights into recognising and nurturing talent in all its forms.
You’ll hear:
➡️ How to design talent development strategies that are genuinely inclusive
➡️ Why recognising neurodiverse strengths benefits teams and individuals alike
➡️ The power of transparency in career pathways and progression
➡️ How early- and mid-career voices reveal what inclusion looks like in practice
➡️ Why building equity is essential
This conversation is both insightful and actionable, offering inspiration for leaders, HR professionals, and anyone who wants to help create workplaces where every voice is heard, and every person can flourish.
Listen/Watch the full We Are PoWEr x Manchester Airports Group series via the links below ⬇️
Listen on audio platforms:
Representation Matters: Ethnic Diversity and Visibility at Work
LGBTQ+ at Work: What Inclusion Really Means
Tech Careers Aren’t Just for Tech People
Leading for Everyone: Inclusion in Action
Watch on YouTube:
Representation Matters: Ethnic Diversity and Visibility at Work
LGBTQ+ at Work: What Inclusion Really Means
Tech Careers Aren’t Just for Tech People
Leading for Everyone: Inclusion in Action
Find out more about We Are PoWEr here. 💫
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
This episode is part of our mini podcast and webinar
series in partnership withManchester Airports Group, where
we'll be exploring belonging,representation, and inclusion.
Don't forget to check out therest of the series for more real
stories and practical insights.
(00:24):
Well, hello, and today we aretalking about leading for
everyone, inclusion in action.
And I am delighted to be joinedby Alicia McDonough.
Welcome to the couch.
How cozy is it?
SPEAKER_00 (00:36):
Thanks for having me.
I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
Now you have not been working at Manchester
Airport's group for that long.
It's less than a year, isn't it?
Yeah, 11 months.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now explain your role becausethere's a lot to it, right?
SPEAKER_00 (00:52):
Yeah, there is.
So my role, so I'm group head ofequity, diversity and inclusion
across Manchester Airport Group.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
No, Max, Max Croison watched back on the previous
episode, said his was thelongest job title in the world.
I'm gonna have to have asteward's inquiry and do a
letter check against them, Ithink.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
I feel like I could give him a run of money.
Yeah, so um I'm acrossManchester, East Midlands,
London Stansted, which is great.
Um, so the role is I I think EDIroles at this point are a bit
like GPs.
So, like general practitioners,I think you need to know a
(01:30):
significant amount about a lotbecause you work across the
entire enterprise.
Um so I think, yeah, we'repeople GPs.
So my role is to support everyarea of the business, every
role, every team, everydepartment, every function to
make sure that they've got theright opportunities, pathways in
place so that everybody whowalks through the door at MAG
(01:51):
can have a great experience.
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
Do you know what?
I think that's the bestdescription I've ever heard.
Although I'm now worried aboutthe size of the waiting room,
right?
Because there are thousands ofpeople across the Manchester
Airport group.
Is it 8,000, something likethat?
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
So directly 8,000.
I counted them all, that's how Iknow.
Yeah.
But it's 40,000 indirectly aswell.
So it's it's even larger theimpact that you have, not just
direct, you know, employees ofManchester Airport groups, three
airports, massive.
So 40,000 uh indirectly.
So I always find it interestingwhen people think that um
(02:24):
leading equity, diversity,inclusion is a is a soft skill.
And you know, I've done avariety of different roles in my
career from project managementinto supply chain and
commercial, etc.
And I can tell you, EDI is not asoft skill.
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
Absolutely not.
And I'm thinking now, becauseyou're now to me, Dr.
Alicia, right?
Yeah, yeah.
There you go.
People get honorary doctoratesall the time.
You've just got yours thatyou've got the we are power
doctorate, right?
It's all yours, okay.
So, and and I think one of thethings I really enjoyed about
this whole season um ofconversations um with, and
please do check out um the otherpodcasts and webinars, it's it's
(03:00):
all fundamentally about people.
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:02):
And that would say, you could say that's obvious
with it being an airport group,but but that's EDI full start,
right?
It's about people.
And I loved how you've justtalked about you don't know
who's in the waiting room.
Somebody could be wantingadvice, somebody could be
wanting to do something forsomeone to help as a carer for
someone else, someone could bewanting to solve something.
(03:23):
Like you're everything.
So you're there with plastersand surgical gloves and
everything.
I'm getting carried away withthis doctor analogy now, but but
but you are, aren't you?
SPEAKER_00 (03:33):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I mean, from an airportperspective, what really enticed
me to the airport was it's it'sdiversity 101 on the tin, isn't
it?
Right.
So you're an airport business,you connect people to every
corner of the earth and makethose, you know, cultural, um,
rich uh journeys.
(03:53):
And that is what EDI is allabout, you know, connecting
colleagues, customers, andcommunities to to every area of
the business.
And we do it to the world, so wehave to be entrenched in EDI,
right?
Um, but yeah, you don't knowwho's in the waiting room, you
don't know what's gonna flag up.
It could be something aroundpolicy, it could be something
(04:13):
around process, practice, theenvironment, culture,
well-being.
And I think that's what makesthe role so so special, and what
makes the airport group so sospecial as well.
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
And what attracted this role?
Because you've had a really kindof accomplished career already,
right?
So what what would you say areyour kind of superpowers that
you brought into this role?
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
Oh, I don't know about superpowers.
Um what attracts me was thetravel aspect that, you know,
like I said before, I think, youknow, airports are the the
gateway to EDI.
You know, we've seen the filmLove Actually, you only have to
stand in an airport terminalterminal to enjoy people and the
richness that diversity bringsto our society.
(04:57):
So it was a no-brainer that Iwanted, you know, the role when
I when I seen it, um, when Iseen it come up.
Um superpowers, I don't I don'tknow about superpowers, but I
what I try to do is make EDIrelevant and meaningful.
So, you know, if I'm having aconversation with finance, I'm
(05:18):
talking about our investmentsand and is that minority-owned,
is that uh, you know,entrepreneurs, and how do we
work that through with our techpartners?
How do we find the rightsolutions so that everybody can
equitably access the systems andthe standards that we need them
to do?
So I think that's what I try andbring to it.
I make EDI relevant um and makeit strategic, hopefully.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
And you bring your lived experience into the role,
don't you?
I hope so.
SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
Yeah, I I I try to And they're your superpowers.
Yeah, I think I do have a uniquevantage point in terms of I'm a
bit of like a tin of hindsbeans.
And if you know me, you know Isay this a lot, you know.
So I'm a I'm a parent and carer,I'm a mum of three, my third
child is disabled.
(06:08):
Um, I'm a woman, I'm a woman ofcolour, so that brings its own
experience, you know.
I'm from a lower socioeconomicbackground.
I was the first person to go touniversity.
My parents were 16 and 17 whenthey had me, you know.
Um, I'm also bringing up a childwho is within the uh LGBTQIA
plus community.
(06:28):
So it's kind of a it's anon-negotiable for me.
I can't strip inclusion out ofmy life because inclusion is my
life and I care about it on apersonal and professional level.
So no matter what I do today,tomorrow, it will always be a
part of who I am and and what Ido.
SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
So there you are.
See, there you go.
Those superpowers are rightthere.
So how you you've you talkedabout this as who you are,
especially you, but have youalways wanted to work in in this
space?
Because EDI has changed a lotover the years.
Uh goodness knows how manyacronyms it's had over the
years, but you know, it haschanged and is currently going
(07:08):
through quite a shift as well.
But did you always know, did theyounger Alicia always know that
this is I want to be part ofthis, I want to be making
change?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:19):
No, not not at all.
I mean, I mean, today I'm kindof representing Mel Bay.
I mean, the earliest- But notscary.
But not scary.
I don't want to be scary, andhopefully I'm not I'm not scary
and stepping into thatstereotype.
But um it it does remind me ofthat, you know, that initial 90s
girl power.
Yeah.
That was always something.
And you know, when you hadsomeone like Melby and the Spice
(07:40):
Girls who were talking about itand you were represented in
that, um, it meant something.
It still means something, youknow, 30 years um later.
But no, did I know that this wassomething that you could do as a
career?
Absolutely not.
I I completely fell into it backin 2020 when um I was at my
previous organization, the co-opat the time, um, when George
(08:03):
Floyd happened, you know, I wasin supply chain as a business
analyst at the time.
And I uh I sent a letter to thebusiness saying, you know, we we
need to do more, we need to stepinto this more.
People like me are notrepresented in the organization,
you know, and and co-op, whichI'm still passionate about,
their movement, you know, werereally receptive to that and
(08:24):
understood and took the time tovalue and listen.
And kind of my professionalcareer then evolved.
So I went from, you know, beinga project manager and then
supporting the business on thesocial mobility, inclusion, and
belonging side.
And that's how it's kind ofevolved.
Kind of took all my learningsand experience and my career to
date, and then kind of gone downthis avenue, which is great
(08:45):
because I get that holisticbird's eye view of a of a whole
organization, which is reallyspecial as well.
SPEAKER_01 (08:50):
And I think there's something about that leadership
piece.
So you talk about the leadershipat the co-op and making that
they heard you, they listened,and they took action.
And um, one of the earlier ofthe podcast series, uh Max,
talks about, you know, when hegoes for a job, he talks about
how he identifies and and it'salmost to get that mirror
effect.
(09:11):
Because some people, he goes, ifI feel shut down, then I don't
want to go further.
But but that's leadership andaction, right?
Is is human behaviour.
So why can't every organisation,big or small, lead with
inclusion at its heart?
You've just exam, you know,given two exact you know, two
examples at both the co-op andat Manchester Aircrop Group now
are you leading, but why can'teveryone do that?
(09:34):
Why can't everyone leadinclusively?
How long we got, right?
SPEAKER_00 (09:38):
Yeah, I mean, I think the place to start is what
is leading inclusively.
And I think that's where leadersbecome a bit unstuck.
You know, I spoke to manyleaders over my career who will
go, I'm inclusive.
And I'm like, oh great, tell me,tell me more.
What does that look like?
You've got a lanyard.
Yeah, like I'm I'm I'm a goodperson, I'm a happy person, I
(09:58):
say hi to everyone.
And I think being inclusive andinclusive leadership is a verb,
it's an action, it's somethingyou do.
It's not who you areintrinsically, it takes skill,
it's an art and a science inequal measure, and you have to
invest in that.
So if you want the besthigh-performing teams, then they
(10:19):
should be diverse in the makeupand you should be proactively
encouraging and fostering thatinto your team.
And it's not a given, it's notan open-door policy.
I've got a job advert here, sotherefore anyone can be in that
role.
You have to recognise there aresystemic barriers, and how are
you positioning your roles andopportunities so everyone can
play a part in that game?
(10:40):
And that's inclusive leadership.
It's thinking bigger and broaderand not creating a one size fits
all.
That's inclusive leadership.
SPEAKER_01 (10:48):
And is it as much about making those habits every
day?
So it's making it, oh, I'm notjust gonna pitch up for Black
History Month or InternationalWomen's Day or Pride.
It's all year round, right?
And it's every day.
It's got to be in the everyday.
It has to be.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
It's a part of your short, medium, long-term
planning.
And I am a practitioner in thesense of I will talk about it in
a commercial way.
We're all in organizations thathave, you know, a PL, for
example.
And it's important we talk aboutit in the right way.
It's not just a nice thing todo, it's a strategic imperative.
So it has to be ingrained andweaved into everything you do,
(11:27):
and businesses will be atdifferent starting points, and
that's okay.
But despite and irrespective ofthe social, political, economic
landscape, you can't take yourfoot on and off the pedal.
These people exist.
We're all different, and we haveto create the right pathways in
all our planning, our everydayactions, so that everybody has
(11:47):
the opportunity to walk throughthat door, crawl through that
door, run through that door,whatever it looks like for them.
SPEAKER_01 (11:53):
And you talk about the action that you took to um
in the the murder of GeorgeFloyd, and you went right.
I need to call this out but in ain a practical way to say you're
not seeing this.
But these are everyday barriersthat underrepresented
communities are seeing thatleaders without that lived
(12:16):
experience aren't seeing it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
How do they see I think it's two ways?
I think the biggest lesson I'velearned in my career so far are
at two points actually.
The first one is the best uh thebest things that have happened
to me have come off the back ofbeing scared, of of needing to
(12:39):
be brave and have courage andspeak up and and speak out and
valuing my own voice, which issomething that's had to be
developed.
You know, when you don't seepeople who look like you and
have experiences like you, youfeel like no one wants to hear
it and it's not of value.
And all the moments where I'vegone, actually, I've got
(13:00):
something to say and I've saidit, has always been a catalyst
for great change.
But on the flip side of that,the support I've had throughout
my career and I've had a lot,has always came off the back of
leaders who have eithersponsored me, coached me, or
mentored me.
And that costs nothing, that'sjust a time investment.
So I think it's two things.
I think if you're anunderrepresented group, it's
(13:22):
about valuing your own voice andbeing brave and having the
courage to speak up and speakout.
But equally, if you're a leader,you are not gonna get as close
to your colleagues, customers,and communities if you're not
investing the time to hear themand support them in their career
journey.
So it's it's on everyone, but itlooks different depending on
your vantage point.
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
And people listening or watching will just think,
gosh, you've come out, you'revery confident and you're you've
got such a brilliant role.
I never thought for a minutethat you would have been scared
to do that.
Oh, absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:51):
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (13:52):
And and what is it that spurs you on?
Because you've talked abouthaving great mentors and
sponsors and advocates in inyour world, but you doing that,
you're then advocating for otherpeople who are too scared to do
anything.
SPEAKER_00 (14:09):
Absolutely, and I think so I think I've touched on
it personally.
I think my home life is youcannot strip it out, it's just
there.
But I think as as the years havehave gone on, you know, when I
had my first daughter, I was 19,I was in uni, I was, you know,
working in the evenings, workingin the weekends, and juggling a
file and things.
Life that was hard.
(14:29):
That was life being super hard.
And I think now anything thatcomes after, you're just like,
well, it's not scary, man.
I've been there, kind of I'vebeen in the trenches.
And I think I've got thisburning inside me, and it and
it's a pressure as well that Irealize that you know, for women
of colour in particular, wedeserve a seat at a table.
(14:51):
We deserve to be representativein the organizations that we
serve.
So I I have that fuel in thefire to be like, we we deserve a
spot too.
And I just don't think it'sgonna burn out because I've got
two daughters as well who willbe looking, and it's really
important that you know, I hopein in five, ten years, ten
years' time our organizations dostart to look like the
(15:14):
communities they serve.
SPEAKER_01 (15:15):
And you do say that change only happens through
people.
Yeah.
And that is definitely somethingthat's come across through all
these conversations that I'vehad the great fortune to sit on
this beautiful teal couch uh andchat through.
But it happens through people,it's not just strategy, it's not
just policies, it's got to bethe doing, isn't it?
It's the deeds, not words.
SPEAKER_00 (15:34):
Yeah, and I think they all have a value in each
moment in time, but it's thatsustainability piece.
It's I will look at a plan or astrategy regardless of what it
is, and go, is this a one-offone moment in time kind of a
gig, or is it something thatwill carry it through for our
customers, colleagues, andcommunities?
And that's that's kind of thetemperature check I take on on
(15:56):
everything.
So yeah, everything's got tohave that longevity.
SPEAKER_01 (16:01):
And I think there's something as well around the
leadership factor.
It's it's it's not just aboutcreating access, it is then that
that truly equitable, thatlegacy of it.
There's no point just going,right, we're changing this and
we're doing this, and I'velistened to that, and there you
go.
But uh you just talked about in10 years' time, you want that to
have grown and developed andopen more doors.
(16:24):
But how do we how do we getbeyond just the access point to
really creating that futureplace for your daughters?
Yeah, it's the with the magicwand, right?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:37):
We can we can do it.
And I I've seen significant stepchange, you know, in in in all
the organizations, all theorganization, all the two
organizations that I've workedin.
And tangible change happens whenwe take a tailored and targeted
approach.
And I think that's what'smeaningful.
So it's not a, again, I said itbefore, a one size fits all
(16:58):
strategy or a one moment intime.
It's those tailored pathwaysthat are sustainable, that
leaders take accountability for.
So it's in their objectives.
They know what EDI looks likefor them and their team.
And it should look and feeldifferent across the
organization because we've gotdifferent roles and teams.
So why would everyone have justbinary um EDI objectives?
(17:21):
It should be meaningful for you.
I'm a finance business partnerand I know what EDI means for
me.
I am a project manager, I knowwhat it means for me.
I'm an airport security officer,I know what it means for me.
And that's that's that's whatevery business should be asking
themselves.
What does it mean for us?
SPEAKER_01 (17:37):
And that and that is key, isn't it?
I think sometimes is that what'sin it for me?
What not so much just what I cando, but what does it mean to me
and how will that change how Ilead?
Yeah, because we're humans.
SPEAKER_00 (17:48):
So no matter what it is, we want to have a stake in
the game, don't we?
Regardless.
And the same for EDA.
I know people want to go, it'sthe right thing to do, it's the
good thing to do.
And I think a lot of people, mein particular, if you're a
minoritized or underrepresentedgroup, EDA isn't a charity
piece.
It's a recognition that somepeople in our society have had
(18:10):
to work um a lot harder or indifferent ways or have, you
know, very differentcircumstances.
And it's about unraveling that,leveling the playing field and
having that acknowledgement toit.
SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
And you know, not everything is visible.
No, you know, and I know you area massive advocate for uh neuro
neurodiver Neurodiversity.
You're a massive advocate forneurodiversity and
neurodivergent mindsets.
Um but again, it's more what doour leaders need to understand?
(18:46):
Because let's go back to thedoctor's weight and surgery.
It's not that person's got abroken leg, I can fix that.
It's all the stuff, it'severything you can't see, all
those precious things.
And that comes back to thewhat's in it for me, yeah, and
what do I need?
But our leaders, I feel how dothey stop getting overwhelmed
(19:06):
and going, right?
What do I what do I need to dothat everybody feels included in
life?
SPEAKER_00 (19:12):
And I think the beauty with neurodiversity is it
has a what's good for the gooseis good for the gander approach.
SPEAKER_01 (19:19):
So the adjustments that phrase for ages.
SPEAKER_00 (19:21):
I know I just thought of it then when you said
it.
And it it's it's so true thatthe adjustments that you will
put in place for neurodiversityfor your team will benefit
everyone in your team.
It's not just for theneurodivergent colleagues.
So a simple example of this is Ilove going to a meeting and
someone will follow up withmeeting minutes afterwards
(19:41):
because by the time I see younext, I'll have had a hundred
different meetings and I cannotremember what's happened.
And that's not not justneurodiversity, that's just
life.
Yeah, yeah.
So that is a good example of howtaking that inclusive approach
in a neurodiversity perspectivewill help everyone in your team,
and that's what we need to do,build that recognition in.
(20:03):
I mean, I have a differentvantage point because my
youngest son, he's autistic.
So as a parent in carer, I haveI have um a different view on
it, you know, like schoolholidays, they're off for 13
weeks a year, as a lot ofparents out there will
understand the children's off 13weeks a year, but there's no SEN
holiday clubs ready available,like they would be for
neurotypical children.
(20:24):
And my son's got an EHCP, whichis old school statement, um,
which details his, you know,medical and social complexities.
And you talk about that inholiday clubs, whether it's
discriminatory or not, and theysuddenly don't have spaces
available.
So you think aboutneurodiversity from a parents
and carers point of view, youcan see why they're leaving
(20:46):
their industries in drovesbecause we can't we're not set
up to serve disabled families,particularly from a
neurodiversity point of view,the way they need to be.
SPEAKER_01 (20:56):
And what does a truly inclusive organization
look like on the day you walk inthat door for the first time?
That's a good question.
SPEAKER_00 (21:05):
I think what does it look like?
I don't know what it looks like,but it should feel like you are
seen, heard, and valued.
That in the simplest of terms,and again, it's it's not a
status quo.
It shouldn't feel likeeverything's binary, these are
(21:27):
the rules, everyone adheres tothem, regardless of your
individual circumstances.
The best organisations are theones that are flexible.
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
And what is because this isn't a a nine to five job
or role, isn't it?
This is life, right?
And you're managing and leadingthis through in your workplace
at Manchester Airports Group,your family situation.
What's your downtime?
Is there any?
SPEAKER_00 (21:54):
Um when I actually get some, I I'm always reading.
So I'm a bit of a favouritebook?
Bookworm.
SPEAKER_01 (22:02):
Oh, that's just reminding me.
You need to go back to Sarah onthe previous pod.
I'm sure she didn't tell me whather book was.
Come back to that for youwatchers and listeners.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
I I I'm gonna say that my favourite book is Fourth
Wing.
For why?
It's a it's a like an adult's uhHarry Potter, I would say.
Oh, fantasy, kind of.
It's kind of like yeah, fantasyromance, uh yeah.
But I just I read for escapism.
So I know some people might havebeen expecting me to say a real
(22:32):
academic book there, but no, Iread absolute um, I'm not gonna
say trash, but I mean I readanything that just steps me out
of reality.
SPEAKER_01 (22:41):
And what is do you have a mantra or a quotation or
something that you live by or goto?
SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
What do I live by?
Probably can't say it on apodcast.
SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
Do we need to bleep it?
We can do it.
SPEAKER_00 (22:57):
Probably.
Um I just I don't know if I havea mantra or but I I have a a
resilience and a tenacity insideme that I I just don't think
no's no's never the never thelast answer.
SPEAKER_01 (23:14):
It's all part of a negotiation, right?
SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
Yeah.
And I I I I just don't I thinkif it's a no, then you haven't
considered why you want to do ityet.
Not yet.
SPEAKER_01 (23:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Now also now we're gonnanavigate the power jar.
Are you ready to navigate thepower jar?
Let's do it.
So this is a question from oneof our previous listeners.
It could be one of ourManchester Airport group guests.
Who knows?
They could be stitching you up atreat here, but I think it's
time to dive into the jar.
Okay, read the question.
Who knows when it might be?
(23:43):
Okay, let's do it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
It sounds like exciting.
Yeah, we can just pick yourfavourite.
Okay.
So you get a free billboard inthe busiest spot in your city.
What do you put on it?
SPEAKER_01 (24:05):
We have got guests that have been writing some
brilliant questions.
I love these.
No, it's not the answer.
Can I pick another?
Yes, you can.
That is so tough.
I'm gonna put that behind her.
Okay.
So, dive into the power jar.
What is the question from one ofour fantastic guests?
(24:27):
Maybe one of your ManchesterAirport group colleagues, who
knows?
SPEAKER_00 (24:32):
Who has been your biggest silent supporter?
Someone who never takes creditbut always had your back.
Ooh.
Who's always been my biggestsilent supporter?
Um I will say, who has been mybiggest silent supporter?
(24:54):
Um, when I sent that email intowork, and the person who got it
was the head of supply chain atthe time called Lee Robertshaw.
And to this day, we're both incompletely different
organisations and still reachesout and still checks in and was
my biggest sponsor.
And if they had not taken thatemail and invested that time, I
(25:16):
honestly don't think I would besat here talking to you.
And I think if we're talkingabout leadership and action,
then that's the best example.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:26):
Thank you, Lee, for the question.
No, it wasn't.
But I think that's the thing youtalked, just rap that is a
perfect kind of out for thisbecause you talk about people
make all the change.
Yeah.
And he had a choice as to whatto do with that email.
Absolutely.
You have a choice as to whatconversation you can have with
that waiting room.
I wish you the biggest waitingroom.
(25:48):
Because I think the more peoplethat we can talk, educate,
include, bring to the table, thesmall acts, uh the listening,
the curiosity, that's what willmake the change.
That's what makes inclusionfairer.
Um, and never be afraid to notkeep learning.
Absolutely.
(26:08):
Alicia, thank you so much.
Back to the doctor's surgery foryou.
There's a cue out the door.
Um, but thank you so much forjoining me today.
Thanks for having me.
Subscribe on YouTube, Apple,Amazon Music, Spotify, or
wherever you get your podcast.
Leave us a review or follow uson socials.
We are power underscore net onInsta, TikTok, and Twitter.
(26:30):
We are power on LinkedIn,Facebook, and we are underscore
power on YouTube.
This episode is part of our mini podcast and webinar
series in partnership withManchester Airports Group, where
we'll be exploring belonging,representation, and inclusion.
Don't forget to check out therest of the series for more real
stories and practical insights.
(00:24):
Well, hello, and today we aretalking about leading for
everyone, inclusion in action.
And I am delighted to be joinedby Alicia McDonough.
Welcome to the couch.
How cozy is it?
SPEAKER_00 (00:36):
Thanks for having me.
I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
Now you have not been working at Manchester
Airport's group for that long.
It's less than a year, isn't it?
Yeah, 11 months.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Now explain your role becausethere's a lot to it, right?
SPEAKER_00 (00:52):
Yeah, there is.
So my role, so I'm group head ofequity, diversity and inclusion
across Manchester Airport Group.
SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
No, Max, Max Croison watched back on the previous
episode, said his was thelongest job title in the world.
I'm gonna have to have asteward's inquiry and do a
letter check against them, Ithink.
SPEAKER_00 (01:08):
I feel like I could give him a run of money.
Yeah, so um I'm acrossManchester, East Midlands,
London Stansted, which is great.
Um, so the role is I I think EDIroles at this point are a bit
like GPs.
So, like general practitioners,I think you need to know a
(01:30):
significant amount about a lotbecause you work across the
entire enterprise.
Um so I think, yeah, we'repeople GPs.
So my role is to support everyarea of the business, every
role, every team, everydepartment, every function to
make sure that they've got theright opportunities, pathways in
place so that everybody whowalks through the door at MAG
(01:51):
can have a great experience.
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
Do you know what?
I think that's the bestdescription I've ever heard.
Although I'm now worried aboutthe size of the waiting room,
right?
Because there are thousands ofpeople across the Manchester
Airport group.
Is it 8,000, something likethat?
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
So directly 8,000.
I counted them all, that's how Iknow.
Yeah.
But it's 40,000 indirectly aswell.
So it's it's even larger theimpact that you have, not just
direct, you know, employees ofManchester Airport groups, three
airports, massive.
So 40,000 uh indirectly.
So I always find it interestingwhen people think that um
(02:24):
leading equity, diversity,inclusion is a is a soft skill.
And you know, I've done avariety of different roles in my
career from project managementinto supply chain and
commercial, etc.
And I can tell you, EDI is not asoft skill.
SPEAKER_01 (02:38):
Absolutely not.
And I'm thinking now, becauseyou're now to me, Dr.
Alicia, right?
Yeah, yeah.
There you go.
People get honorary doctoratesall the time.
You've just got yours thatyou've got the we are power
doctorate, right?
It's all yours, okay.
So, and and I think one of thethings I really enjoyed about
this whole season um ofconversations um with, and
please do check out um the otherpodcasts and webinars, it's it's
(03:00):
all fundamentally about people.
SPEAKER_00 (03:02):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (03:02):
And that would say, you could say that's obvious
with it being an airport group,but but that's EDI full start,
right?
It's about people.
And I loved how you've justtalked about you don't know
who's in the waiting room.
Somebody could be wantingadvice, somebody could be
wanting to do something forsomeone to help as a carer for
someone else, someone could bewanting to solve something.
(03:23):
Like you're everything.
So you're there with plastersand surgical gloves and
everything.
I'm getting carried away withthis doctor analogy now, but but
but you are, aren't you?
SPEAKER_00 (03:33):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
I mean, from an airportperspective, what really enticed
me to the airport was it's it'sdiversity 101 on the tin, isn't
it?
Right.
So you're an airport business,you connect people to every
corner of the earth and makethose, you know, cultural, um,
rich uh journeys.
(03:53):
And that is what EDI is allabout, you know, connecting
colleagues, customers, andcommunities to to every area of
the business.
And we do it to the world, so wehave to be entrenched in EDI,
right?
Um, but yeah, you don't knowwho's in the waiting room, you
don't know what's gonna flag up.
It could be something aroundpolicy, it could be something
(04:13):
around process, practice, theenvironment, culture,
well-being.
And I think that's what makesthe role so so special, and what
makes the airport group so sospecial as well.
SPEAKER_01 (04:23):
And what attracted this role?
Because you've had a really kindof accomplished career already,
right?
So what what would you say areyour kind of superpowers that
you brought into this role?
SPEAKER_00 (04:37):
Oh, I don't know about superpowers.
Um what attracts me was thetravel aspect that, you know,
like I said before, I think, youknow, airports are the the
gateway to EDI.
You know, we've seen the filmLove Actually, you only have to
stand in an airport terminalterminal to enjoy people and the
richness that diversity bringsto our society.
(04:57):
So it was a no-brainer that Iwanted, you know, the role when
I when I seen it, um, when Iseen it come up.
Um superpowers, I don't I don'tknow about superpowers, but I
what I try to do is make EDIrelevant and meaningful.
So, you know, if I'm having aconversation with finance, I'm
(05:18):
talking about our investmentsand and is that minority-owned,
is that uh, you know,entrepreneurs, and how do we
work that through with our techpartners?
How do we find the rightsolutions so that everybody can
equitably access the systems andthe standards that we need them
to do?
So I think that's what I try andbring to it.
I make EDI relevant um and makeit strategic, hopefully.
SPEAKER_01 (05:42):
And you bring your lived experience into the role,
don't you?
I hope so.
SPEAKER_00 (05:46):
Yeah, I I I try to And they're your superpowers.
Yeah, I think I do have a uniquevantage point in terms of I'm a
bit of like a tin of hindsbeans.
And if you know me, you know Isay this a lot, you know.
So I'm a I'm a parent and carer,I'm a mum of three, my third
child is disabled.
(06:08):
Um, I'm a woman, I'm a woman ofcolour, so that brings its own
experience, you know.
I'm from a lower socioeconomicbackground.
I was the first person to go touniversity.
My parents were 16 and 17 whenthey had me, you know.
Um, I'm also bringing up a childwho is within the uh LGBTQIA
plus community.
(06:28):
So it's kind of a it's anon-negotiable for me.
I can't strip inclusion out ofmy life because inclusion is my
life and I care about it on apersonal and professional level.
So no matter what I do today,tomorrow, it will always be a
part of who I am and and what Ido.
SPEAKER_01 (06:45):
So there you are.
See, there you go.
Those superpowers are rightthere.
So how you you've you talkedabout this as who you are,
especially you, but have youalways wanted to work in in this
space?
Because EDI has changed a lotover the years.
Uh goodness knows how manyacronyms it's had over the
years, but you know, it haschanged and is currently going
(07:08):
through quite a shift as well.
But did you always know, did theyounger Alicia always know that
this is I want to be part ofthis, I want to be making
change?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (07:19):
No, not not at all.
I mean, I mean, today I'm kindof representing Mel Bay.
I mean, the earliest- But notscary.
But not scary.
I don't want to be scary, andhopefully I'm not I'm not scary
and stepping into thatstereotype.
But um it it does remind me ofthat, you know, that initial 90s
girl power.
Yeah.
That was always something.
And you know, when you hadsomeone like Melby and the Spice
(07:40):
Girls who were talking about itand you were represented in
that, um, it meant something.
It still means something, youknow, 30 years um later.
But no, did I know that this wassomething that you could do as a
career?
Absolutely not.
I I completely fell into it backin 2020 when um I was at my
previous organization, the co-opat the time, um, when George
(08:03):
Floyd happened, you know, I wasin supply chain as a business
analyst at the time.
And I uh I sent a letter to thebusiness saying, you know, we we
need to do more, we need to stepinto this more.
People like me are notrepresented in the organization,
you know, and and co-op, whichI'm still passionate about,
their movement, you know, werereally receptive to that and
(08:24):
understood and took the time tovalue and listen.
And kind of my professionalcareer then evolved.
So I went from, you know, beinga project manager and then
supporting the business on thesocial mobility, inclusion, and
belonging side.
And that's how it's kind ofevolved.
Kind of took all my learningsand experience and my career to
date, and then kind of gone downthis avenue, which is great
(08:45):
because I get that holisticbird's eye view of a of a whole
organization, which is reallyspecial as well.
SPEAKER_01 (08:50):
And I think there's something about that leadership
piece.
So you talk about the leadershipat the co-op and making that
they heard you, they listened,and they took action.
And um, one of the earlier ofthe podcast series, uh Max,
talks about, you know, when hegoes for a job, he talks about
how he identifies and and it'salmost to get that mirror
effect.
(09:11):
Because some people, he goes, ifI feel shut down, then I don't
want to go further.
But but that's leadership andaction, right?
Is is human behaviour.
So why can't every organisation,big or small, lead with
inclusion at its heart?
You've just exam, you know,given two exact you know, two
examples at both the co-op andat Manchester Aircrop Group now
are you leading, but why can'teveryone do that?
(09:34):
Why can't everyone leadinclusively?
How long we got, right?
SPEAKER_00 (09:38):
Yeah, I mean, I think the place to start is what
is leading inclusively.
And I think that's where leadersbecome a bit unstuck.
You know, I spoke to manyleaders over my career who will
go, I'm inclusive.
And I'm like, oh great, tell me,tell me more.
What does that look like?
You've got a lanyard.
Yeah, like I'm I'm I'm a goodperson, I'm a happy person, I
(09:58):
say hi to everyone.
And I think being inclusive andinclusive leadership is a verb,
it's an action, it's somethingyou do.
It's not who you areintrinsically, it takes skill,
it's an art and a science inequal measure, and you have to
invest in that.
So if you want the besthigh-performing teams, then they
(10:19):
should be diverse in the makeupand you should be proactively
encouraging and fostering thatinto your team.
And it's not a given, it's notan open-door policy.
I've got a job advert here, sotherefore anyone can be in that
role.
You have to recognise there aresystemic barriers, and how are
you positioning your roles andopportunities so everyone can
play a part in that game?
(10:40):
And that's inclusive leadership.
It's thinking bigger and broaderand not creating a one size fits
all.
That's inclusive leadership.
SPEAKER_01 (10:48):
And is it as much about making those habits every
day?
So it's making it, oh, I'm notjust gonna pitch up for Black
History Month or InternationalWomen's Day or Pride.
It's all year round, right?
And it's every day.
It's got to be in the everyday.
It has to be.
SPEAKER_00 (11:06):
It's a part of your short, medium, long-term
planning.
And I am a practitioner in thesense of I will talk about it in
a commercial way.
We're all in organizations thathave, you know, a PL, for
example.
And it's important we talk aboutit in the right way.
It's not just a nice thing todo, it's a strategic imperative.
So it has to be ingrained andweaved into everything you do,
(11:27):
and businesses will be atdifferent starting points, and
that's okay.
But despite and irrespective ofthe social, political, economic
landscape, you can't take yourfoot on and off the pedal.
These people exist.
We're all different, and we haveto create the right pathways in
all our planning, our everydayactions, so that everybody has
(11:47):
the opportunity to walk throughthat door, crawl through that
door, run through that door,whatever it looks like for them.
SPEAKER_01 (11:53):
And you talk about the action that you took to um
in the the murder of GeorgeFloyd, and you went right.
I need to call this out but in ain a practical way to say you're
not seeing this.
But these are everyday barriersthat underrepresented
communities are seeing thatleaders without that lived
(12:16):
experience aren't seeing it.
SPEAKER_00 (12:17):
How do they see I think it's two ways?
I think the biggest lesson I'velearned in my career so far are
at two points actually.
The first one is the best uh thebest things that have happened
to me have come off the back ofbeing scared, of of needing to
(12:39):
be brave and have courage andspeak up and and speak out and
valuing my own voice, which issomething that's had to be
developed.
You know, when you don't seepeople who look like you and
have experiences like you, youfeel like no one wants to hear
it and it's not of value.
And all the moments where I'vegone, actually, I've got
(13:00):
something to say and I've saidit, has always been a catalyst
for great change.
But on the flip side of that,the support I've had throughout
my career and I've had a lot,has always came off the back of
leaders who have eithersponsored me, coached me, or
mentored me.
And that costs nothing, that'sjust a time investment.
So I think it's two things.
I think if you're anunderrepresented group, it's
(13:22):
about valuing your own voice andbeing brave and having the
courage to speak up and speakout.
But equally, if you're a leader,you are not gonna get as close
to your colleagues, customers,and communities if you're not
investing the time to hear themand support them in their career
journey.
So it's it's on everyone, but itlooks different depending on
your vantage point.
SPEAKER_01 (13:40):
And people listening or watching will just think,
gosh, you've come out, you'revery confident and you're you've
got such a brilliant role.
I never thought for a minutethat you would have been scared
to do that.
Oh, absolutely, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (13:51):
Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (13:52):
And and what is it that spurs you on?
Because you've talked abouthaving great mentors and
sponsors and advocates in inyour world, but you doing that,
you're then advocating for otherpeople who are too scared to do
anything.
SPEAKER_00 (14:09):
Absolutely, and I think so I think I've touched on
it personally.
I think my home life is youcannot strip it out, it's just
there.
But I think as as the years havehave gone on, you know, when I
had my first daughter, I was 19,I was in uni, I was, you know,
working in the evenings, workingin the weekends, and juggling a
file and things.
Life that was hard.
(14:29):
That was life being super hard.
And I think now anything thatcomes after, you're just like,
well, it's not scary, man.
I've been there, kind of I'vebeen in the trenches.
And I think I've got thisburning inside me, and it and
it's a pressure as well that Irealize that you know, for women
of colour in particular, wedeserve a seat at a table.
(14:51):
We deserve to be representativein the organizations that we
serve.
So I I have that fuel in thefire to be like, we we deserve a
spot too.
And I just don't think it'sgonna burn out because I've got
two daughters as well who willbe looking, and it's really
important that you know, I hopein in five, ten years, ten
years' time our organizations dostart to look like the
(15:14):
communities they serve.
SPEAKER_01 (15:15):
And you do say that change only happens through
people.
Yeah.
And that is definitely somethingthat's come across through all
these conversations that I'vehad the great fortune to sit on
this beautiful teal couch uh andchat through.
But it happens through people,it's not just strategy, it's not
just policies, it's got to bethe doing, isn't it?
It's the deeds, not words.
SPEAKER_00 (15:34):
Yeah, and I think they all have a value in each
moment in time, but it's thatsustainability piece.
It's I will look at a plan or astrategy regardless of what it
is, and go, is this a one-offone moment in time kind of a
gig, or is it something thatwill carry it through for our
customers, colleagues, andcommunities?
And that's that's kind of thetemperature check I take on on
(15:56):
everything.
So yeah, everything's got tohave that longevity.
SPEAKER_01 (16:01):
And I think there's something as well around the
leadership factor.
It's it's it's not just aboutcreating access, it is then that
that truly equitable, thatlegacy of it.
There's no point just going,right, we're changing this and
we're doing this, and I'velistened to that, and there you
go.
But uh you just talked about in10 years' time, you want that to
have grown and developed andopen more doors.
(16:24):
But how do we how do we getbeyond just the access point to
really creating that futureplace for your daughters?
Yeah, it's the with the magicwand, right?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (16:37):
We can we can do it.
And I I've seen significant stepchange, you know, in in in all
the organizations, all theorganization, all the two
organizations that I've workedin.
And tangible change happens whenwe take a tailored and targeted
approach.
And I think that's what'smeaningful.
So it's not a, again, I said itbefore, a one size fits all
(16:58):
strategy or a one moment intime.
It's those tailored pathwaysthat are sustainable, that
leaders take accountability for.
So it's in their objectives.
They know what EDI looks likefor them and their team.
And it should look and feeldifferent across the
organization because we've gotdifferent roles and teams.
So why would everyone have justbinary um EDI objectives?
(17:21):
It should be meaningful for you.
I'm a finance business partnerand I know what EDI means for
me.
I am a project manager, I knowwhat it means for me.
I'm an airport security officer,I know what it means for me.
And that's that's that's whatevery business should be asking
themselves.
What does it mean for us?
SPEAKER_01 (17:37):
And that and that is key, isn't it?
I think sometimes is that what'sin it for me?
What not so much just what I cando, but what does it mean to me
and how will that change how Ilead?
Yeah, because we're humans.
SPEAKER_00 (17:48):
So no matter what it is, we want to have a stake in
the game, don't we?
Regardless.
And the same for EDA.
I know people want to go, it'sthe right thing to do, it's the
good thing to do.
And I think a lot of people, mein particular, if you're a
minoritized or underrepresentedgroup, EDA isn't a charity
piece.
It's a recognition that somepeople in our society have had
(18:10):
to work um a lot harder or indifferent ways or have, you
know, very differentcircumstances.
And it's about unraveling that,leveling the playing field and
having that acknowledgement toit.
SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
And you know, not everything is visible.
No, you know, and I know you area massive advocate for uh neuro
neurodiver Neurodiversity.
You're a massive advocate forneurodiversity and
neurodivergent mindsets.
Um but again, it's more what doour leaders need to understand?
(18:46):
Because let's go back to thedoctor's weight and surgery.
It's not that person's got abroken leg, I can fix that.
It's all the stuff, it'severything you can't see, all
those precious things.
And that comes back to thewhat's in it for me, yeah, and
what do I need?
But our leaders, I feel how dothey stop getting overwhelmed
(19:06):
and going, right?
What do I what do I need to dothat everybody feels included in
life?
SPEAKER_00 (19:12):
And I think the beauty with neurodiversity is it
has a what's good for the gooseis good for the gander approach.
SPEAKER_01 (19:19):
So the adjustments that phrase for ages.
SPEAKER_00 (19:21):
I know I just thought of it then when you said
it.
And it it's it's so true thatthe adjustments that you will
put in place for neurodiversityfor your team will benefit
everyone in your team.
It's not just for theneurodivergent colleagues.
So a simple example of this is Ilove going to a meeting and
someone will follow up withmeeting minutes afterwards
(19:41):
because by the time I see younext, I'll have had a hundred
different meetings and I cannotremember what's happened.
And that's not not justneurodiversity, that's just
life.
Yeah, yeah.
So that is a good example of howtaking that inclusive approach
in a neurodiversity perspectivewill help everyone in your team,
and that's what we need to do,build that recognition in.
(20:03):
I mean, I have a differentvantage point because my
youngest son, he's autistic.
So as a parent in carer, I haveI have um a different view on
it, you know, like schoolholidays, they're off for 13
weeks a year, as a lot ofparents out there will
understand the children's off 13weeks a year, but there's no SEN
holiday clubs ready available,like they would be for
neurotypical children.
(20:24):
And my son's got an EHCP, whichis old school statement, um,
which details his, you know,medical and social complexities.
And you talk about that inholiday clubs, whether it's
discriminatory or not, and theysuddenly don't have spaces
available.
So you think aboutneurodiversity from a parents
and carers point of view, youcan see why they're leaving
(20:46):
their industries in drovesbecause we can't we're not set
up to serve disabled families,particularly from a
neurodiversity point of view,the way they need to be.
SPEAKER_01 (20:56):
And what does a truly inclusive organization
look like on the day you walk inthat door for the first time?
That's a good question.
SPEAKER_00 (21:05):
I think what does it look like?
I don't know what it looks like,but it should feel like you are
seen, heard, and valued.
That in the simplest of terms,and again, it's it's not a
status quo.
It shouldn't feel likeeverything's binary, these are
(21:27):
the rules, everyone adheres tothem, regardless of your
individual circumstances.
The best organisations are theones that are flexible.
SPEAKER_01 (21:35):
And what is because this isn't a a nine to five job
or role, isn't it?
This is life, right?
And you're managing and leadingthis through in your workplace
at Manchester Airports Group,your family situation.
What's your downtime?
Is there any?
SPEAKER_00 (21:54):
Um when I actually get some, I I'm always reading.
So I'm a bit of a favouritebook?
Bookworm.
SPEAKER_01 (22:02):
Oh, that's just reminding me.
You need to go back to Sarah onthe previous pod.
I'm sure she didn't tell me whather book was.
Come back to that for youwatchers and listeners.
SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
I I I'm gonna say that my favourite book is Fourth
Wing.
For why?
It's a it's a like an adult's uhHarry Potter, I would say.
Oh, fantasy, kind of.
It's kind of like yeah, fantasyromance, uh yeah.
But I just I read for escapism.
So I know some people might havebeen expecting me to say a real
(22:32):
academic book there, but no, Iread absolute um, I'm not gonna
say trash, but I mean I readanything that just steps me out
of reality.
SPEAKER_01 (22:41):
And what is do you have a mantra or a quotation or
something that you live by or goto?
SPEAKER_00 (22:50):
What do I live by?
Probably can't say it on apodcast.
SPEAKER_01 (22:55):
Do we need to bleep it?
We can do it.
SPEAKER_00 (22:57):
Probably.
Um I just I don't know if I havea mantra or but I I have a a
resilience and a tenacity insideme that I I just don't think
no's no's never the never thelast answer.
SPEAKER_01 (23:14):
It's all part of a negotiation, right?
SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
Yeah.
And I I I I just don't I thinkif it's a no, then you haven't
considered why you want to do ityet.
Not yet.
SPEAKER_01 (23:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Now also now we're gonnanavigate the power jar.
Are you ready to navigate thepower jar?
Let's do it.
So this is a question from oneof our previous listeners.
It could be one of ourManchester Airport group guests.
Who knows?
They could be stitching you up atreat here, but I think it's
time to dive into the jar.
Okay, read the question.
Who knows when it might be?
(23:43):
Okay, let's do it.
SPEAKER_00 (23:50):
It sounds like exciting.
Yeah, we can just pick yourfavourite.
Okay.
So you get a free billboard inthe busiest spot in your city.
What do you put on it?
SPEAKER_01 (24:05):
We have got guests that have been writing some
brilliant questions.
I love these.
No, it's not the answer.
Can I pick another?
Yes, you can.
That is so tough.
I'm gonna put that behind her.
Okay.
So, dive into the power jar.
What is the question from one ofour fantastic guests?
(24:27):
Maybe one of your ManchesterAirport group colleagues, who
knows?
SPEAKER_00 (24:32):
Who has been your biggest silent supporter?
Someone who never takes creditbut always had your back.
Ooh.
Who's always been my biggestsilent supporter?
Um I will say, who has been mybiggest silent supporter?
(24:54):
Um, when I sent that email intowork, and the person who got it
was the head of supply chain atthe time called Lee Robertshaw.
And to this day, we're both incompletely different
organisations and still reachesout and still checks in and was
my biggest sponsor.
And if they had not taken thatemail and invested that time, I
(25:16):
honestly don't think I would besat here talking to you.
And I think if we're talkingabout leadership and action,
then that's the best example.
So yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:26):
Thank you, Lee, for the question.
No, it wasn't.
But I think that's the thing youtalked, just rap that is a
perfect kind of out for thisbecause you talk about people
make all the change.
Yeah.
And he had a choice as to whatto do with that email.
Absolutely.
You have a choice as to whatconversation you can have with
that waiting room.
I wish you the biggest waitingroom.
(25:48):
Because I think the more peoplethat we can talk, educate,
include, bring to the table, thesmall acts, uh the listening,
the curiosity, that's what willmake the change.
That's what makes inclusionfairer.
Um, and never be afraid to notkeep learning.
Absolutely.
(26:08):
Alicia, thank you so much.
Back to the doctor's surgery foryou.
There's a cue out the door.
Um, but thank you so much forjoining me today.
Thanks for having me.
Subscribe on YouTube, Apple,Amazon Music, Spotify, or
wherever you get your podcast.
Leave us a review or follow uson socials.
We are power underscore net onInsta, TikTok, and Twitter.
(26:30):
We are power on LinkedIn,Facebook, and we are underscore
power on YouTube.
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