Adventure Travel with Felex Musinguzi - Kazinga Tours Uganda - Adventure Travel Podcast - Big World Made Small

Episode Transcript
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(01:05):
Welcome back, everybody, toanother episode of the Big World
Made Small podcast for theAdventure Traveler.
So happy to have each and everyone of you back here today.
And I'm also very excited we'vegot a fascinating guest for you
today.
We've got Felix Musunguzi.
He's the managing director ofKazinga Tours in Uganda.
Felix, welcome to the show.
Happy to have you here.
Yeah, thanks, Justin, forputting me on this podcast.

(01:28):
Well, I have an opportunity tomeet fascinating people like
yourself.
And it's um, you know, I travela lot, and this podcast is my
opportunity just to haveconversations and meet new
people.
So so thank you so much forcoming on.
We spoke um, I guess it was justlast week, actually.
Yeah, yeah.
And I under Yeah, I understandyou're coming up on a big

(01:48):
20-year anniversary for yourbusiness.
So I thought that would be funto discuss.
Before we get into yourbackground and your story, let's
give our listeners kind of anopportunity to understand what
is Kazinga Tours Uganda, andit's not and it's not just
Uganda, you're doing other stuffas well.
But let's give our listeners anidea of what it is you do, and

(02:11):
then we'll discuss why it is youdo those things and how you got
to that point.
So, what is Kazinga ToursUganda?
Yeah, thank you very much.
Uh, Kazinga Tours Uganda is uh adestination management company.
Uh it operates uh operating inUganda now for 20 years, and of
course, we do customize packagesfor direct clients.

(02:35):
And until recently, we starteddoing business-to-business as a
destination management company.
That is after COVID.
Let's um some of our, I think alot of our listeners know what a
destination management companyis.
But for those that aren't surewhat that means, can you explain

(02:55):
in your words what is adestination management company?
What do you do differently as adestination management company
as opposed to just someone thatyou know people contact and book
a tour with?
Uh, destination managementcompany is uh we were a label
company that representscompanies outside Uganda but

(03:17):
would like to bring clients fortourism purposes.
So we'll present their brand100% and also add extra uh
incentives for our partners.
For example, uh, if a companyfrom America is trusting us with
the clients and we are going todo the groundhandling work for

(03:38):
them, we give them incentiveslike uh marketing materials.
My business partner Vincent isuh a photographer for wildlife.
And every year he comes toUganda, take pictures for
wildlife, he takes videos, andthese are the incentives we give

(03:59):
to our clients so that they areable to market and they bring
clients to Uganda.
We we also have a program wecall Ambassadors Program.
This is for people who have notbeen to Uganda but they do
business, they send clients.
We teach them about Uganda as adestination.
We show them national parks, uh,we do a Zoom call, and we do it
with the entire team so that incase they get an inquiry, it is

(04:22):
easier for them to answerquestions before they even call
me.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Got it, got it.
So, an example of that could bea maybe a travel planner or a
travel agent or maybe a companyin the US that offers places all
around the world and they wantto also offer Uganda, but they

(04:45):
don't have the connections inUganda to put together a whole
trip by themselves.
So they go to somebody like you,you put it all together,
customize it for their clients,and it sounds like when when the
clients show up in Uganda, theyunderstand maybe you even meet
them with a sign or you havesigns on your vehicles, or how

(05:07):
how do the clients that are usedto working with, let's say, Mary
in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, to booktheir trip to Uganda, they get
on the plane, they fly toUganda, and then they meet your
team.
So do you show up as kind oflike, hey, we're we work with
Mary, we're here to pick you upand show you a good time, right?
Yeah, so what what I meant thatwe will present the the company

(05:31):
100% is that the plaque at theairport is reading the name of
the agent in the US, uh, or inCanada or where.
And the uniform uh that thedriver is put driver guide is
putting on is for the samecompany, and the vehicle is
branded as the company inAmerica or Canada that is

(05:53):
sending us clients because webuild a partnership together,
we're working together, and wewant to make sure that the
clients feel comfortable whenthey arrive.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do you, in your experience,people from maybe Europe or from
the United States, are they morecomfortable booking a trip to
Uganda through somebody thatmaybe lives a little closer to

(06:16):
where they live?
Or what is your experience?
Uh, the experience with Americanclients is that they prefer to
use uh the local agents, uh, Imean the agents from their
country.
We've had a few bookings fordirect clients who come from the
US, but the questions are alwaysvery many.
You know, they they want to besure that you know uh they trust

(06:40):
you, and uh you have to provewhy they should book with you,
not another company.
You have to prove that you havereferences from America, or you
know, so it goes around, but atthe end of the day, I think uh
the business to business is theway to go, you know, like you
know, yeah, you buildpartnerships and uh you make the

(07:01):
work easy, and even after thetest of COVID-19, you know, uh
people who had booked directlywith local companies, I think
some of them lost money.
But those who had booked withthe local agent uh in their
countries, it was easy for themto follow up with the money and
all that.
So we've been successful on thatsince COVID.

(07:21):
Yeah, and it's yeah.
That that makes a lot, thatmakes a lot of sense.
Um and also just things liketime zone differences.
Um you know, if you've neverbeen to Africa, and we should
discuss, we'll discuss this, butif you've never been to Africa,
it can feel very overwhelmingbecause it's a big continent.

(07:43):
Um, we hear things about oneplace in Africa and we think
that it it's the same everywherein Africa, and it's not.
Um so it can be intimidatingwhere if you're working with
somebody that's based in the US,that maybe has has you know been
on trips to Africa, understandsAfrica, it might be a little bit

(08:03):
more um, I don't know, feels alittle bit more comfortable
maybe to book with them.
It's uh it sounds like.
Yeah, actually, some peoplethink uh Africa is one country,
you know.
Yeah, I know.
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah.
It's until uh they come here,they start realizing that you
know there are many countrieswithin African continent.
Yes, yep.

(08:24):
Yeah.
Do you do you I I think I knowthe answer to this question.
I've been around for a while,I've been to Africa a couple of
times, but when I say I've beento Africa, it doesn't mean that
I know Africa because, like yousaid, it's a big continent.
You know, I've been to Namibia,Zambia, South Africa, but that's
there's still so much more inAfrica that I don't know.

(08:46):
So I guess my question is ifsomething is happening in West
Africa, maybe in Ghana orwherever, Senegal, um and people
in the US, they just kind oftend to see, oh, there's
something's going on on Africa.
So maybe we shouldn't go rightnow.

(09:07):
Maybe we should wait anotheryear or two.
Um, what would you like to sharewith our listeners about that,
other than it's a big country ora big continent?
See, I almost a big continentwith many countries.
Um actually give uh one example.
You know, we uh there's uh Ebolaoutbreak in Congo.

(09:30):
You know, you must have heardabout it.
Congo is at the border, um, wewe border Congo, uh also Rwanda
borders Congo, but only oneincident happened that uh one
patient uh from Congo came toUganda for medical attention and
he died.
And all the news, the CNN, AlJazeera are recording Uganda and

(09:52):
Congo are having rising issues,I mean uh cases of of Ebola.
And everybody's saying we arenot coming to Uganda because uh
we see that everywhere in thenews there is Ebola in Uganda
and Congo.
So we are to to differentiatethat Uganda is not Congo, you

(10:13):
know, and so in most cases, youknow, we get contradictions, you
know, about you know uh thosethings.
But um, you know, of late, ofcourse, we have worked very hard
to market Uganda uh as adestination, and uh the world is
getting to know that it isindeed a part of Africa.
Right.
You know, it's it's interesting.

(10:35):
That example was interestingbecause I was thinking if there
was an outbreak in Mexico, forexample, yeah, and they took
somebody from Mexico toCalifornia for treatment, and
that person died in California,you know, would would the news

(10:55):
be talking about, oh, there's anoutbreak in the United States?
So now people say, well, webetter not go to New York
because New York is in theUnited States and and somebody
died in the United States fromthis outbreak in Mexico.
People would be like, no, it'sthat's oh, that's totally
different.
But when it comes to Africa, weall just in our heads, I and

(11:17):
when I say we, I'm not talkingabout you.
We that that aren't as familiarwith Africa tend to clump it all
together in our head, and oh,there's Ebola in Africa, so I
better not go to South Africa, Ibetter not go to Uganda, I
better not go to Morocco, andit's um yeah, but people are
scared.
I get that.
I'm not knocking it, yeah.

(11:38):
So okay, I think we I think wetouched on that.
That's pretty good.
Yeah, unless there's somethingunless you want to expand.
Yeah, yeah, it was uh I think uhit just happened with a clear
example, you know.
Uh, you know, and so and so Ithink um, you know, um for

(11:58):
example, we have Africa TourismBoard that is trying to to to
promote Africa as uh onedestination working with uh
different countries.
Then we have different everycountry has got a tourism board.
So as Africa, of course, we aretrying to make sure that we uh
uh Africa is known for goodreasons, you know, because um

(12:19):
you've you've read in news everytime they say in Africa uh there
they are diseases everywhere,there's this, there's war, there
is everything, you know.
Uh so in most cases, you know,these things affect business,
you know.
Right.
Tourism in particular, yeah.
Do you think do you think thathaving like the Africa you said
it was the Africa Tourism Board?

(12:41):
Tourism board, yeah, yeah, yeah,yeah.
And they promote so they'rethey're trying to promote all of
Africa.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I'm I'm curious though, ifyou spend a lot of time and
money trying to promote all ofAfrica like it's one place, does
that sometimes cause problems?

(13:01):
Because if you keep telling theUS, people in the US or people
in Europe, come to Africa, cometo Africa, come to Africa, they
kind of sometimes maybe think,okay, Africa is the destination.
And when there's a problem inAfrica, all of Africa suffers.
Do you think it would be betterif just each country was

(13:23):
promoting itself as a place togo, as opposed to having people
out there promoting Africa as awhole?
Yeah, you see, what happens?
Uh um, I don't know which uhfamous expo, uh, is it New York
Times Expo?
Have you attended that expo inthe New York?
I I think it's it used to becalled the New York Times travel

(13:45):
show.
I think I don't know if it'schanged.
It's been a long time.
Yeah.
So uh such big expos, whathappens is that they have like
Africa, like Africa Hall.
Yeah, they have Middle East,they have uh North America, they
have, you know.
So what happens is that uh thedifferent uh boards of different
national uh countries, they goto Africa board and each of them

(14:10):
is presenting their country, thethe uniqueness of their country.
Uh but of course the the Africatourism board coming in a place
was to make sure that you knowpeople are collecting the
different uh products, you know,so that you know uh we learn
from each other.
Because when you go to uh, forexample, you go to to some West

(14:33):
African countries like Gabon,you know, we want to go to
Gabon, uh uh uh you you go toEquatoria, it's uh uh Central
Africa Republic, you go to DiaraCongo, you come to Uganda, and
uh uh you go to to Rwanda,Uganda, we all have different
primates, especially the thegorillas.
We in in Uganda, Rwanda, andCongo have mountain gorillas.

(14:58):
Then when you go to Gabon andthe other, and they have lowland
gorillas, you know.
Even Congo are part of theRoland gorilla.
So in most cases for theregional uh promotion and making
sure that you know the peopleoutside there have different
alternatives.
You've been to Uganda today,what happens next year or
whatever, you know.
So in the long run, it helps,you know, to promote the whole

(15:20):
continent.
Okay.
We yeah, we tend to do thateverywhere in the world, don't
we?
Yeah, yeah.
Um, I think something else Iwant to ask you about is the
cultural differences in thesecountries, because I'm not sure

(15:41):
that's obvious to people thathave not spent time in Africa.
Um so I'd love to hear your takeon the cultural differences
between, you know, people inUganda or Zimbabwe or South
Africa or Gabon.
Because I think that there's alot more, obviously, there's a

(16:05):
lot in common, but I think thatpeople that have never been to
Africa just kind of thinkeverybody in Africa kind of has
the same culture and the same,you know, to you know, maybe we
think, oh, they all look alike,they all sound alike to us
because we don't understand thenative languages.
But as somebody that lives inUganda, what would you like to

(16:25):
tell people about culturaldiversity?
I guess maybe in Uganda, butalso in all of Africa?
Yeah, uh, we have different uhthe cultural the cultural
differences, of course.
Of course.
Uh for example, every countryyou go to, they have different
cultural beliefs.
But um when you go to SouthAfrica, you go to Zimbabwe, you

(16:49):
go to these countries ofNamibia, I mean, no, no, no, no,
no.
Botswana, uh, you come, we arewe're all Bantu.
You know, if you search uh aboutBantu people, the Bantu, it is a
uh linguistic group, the Bantuspeaking.
Uh we have very many things inthe in common.
When we are speaking, there arewords we hear and we understand

(17:12):
what people are talking about.
Then we are differentiated bydifferent the cuisine, you know,
of course uh every country yougo to has a different cuisine,
but like in Uganda here, uh weare so unique that you know uh
we are so friendly.
We are the the friendliest thefriendliest country in the I
think in the world that you gouh on a street and you meet

(17:35):
people, you mingle with themimmediately, and they can
welcome you.
And you know, and of course, forthe last 20 years, what Kazinga
Tour has been doing is not onlyto bring tourists uh to the
national parks, but to go deepinto people's lives.
Okay.
Go into communities withorganized homestay experience.
Like you come to Uganda, ofcourse, you have to see a lion,

(17:59):
uh, see the mountain gorillas,but in the middle or at the end,
you should go and spend a nightin a local home.
You teach with the local people,learn how to cook, go to the
garden and collect and get thefood, cook it to the local
person.
And um, like where I come from,uh men don't go in the kitchen

(18:19):
to cook.
You know, it is theresponsibility of the woman to
go and cook, and it's a sign ofrespect, you know, to say, okay,
my husband is uh he's comingfrom he's come from work, so I
need to prepare food for him,you know.
So if you come to our communitynow as a man, you may help to
maybe collect firewood and uhyou bring home, and then the

(18:40):
wife, uh, my wife and yours willparticipate in cooking, and
maybe me and you will go to atrading center and have uh a
beer with other men back homefor uh you know for a drink, I
mean for dinner, and so it's solike when you come to Uganda, it
is uh you really feel at homeimmediately.

(19:03):
Yeah, you know, do do you Iimagine that people that come
visit and they want to have anauthentic experience, I'm sure
they just accept what you justsaid.
And I'm wondering, have you hadguests that get upset when you
say, Okay, um, Mr.

(19:24):
and Mrs.
Jones, you know, Mrs.
Jones, you can help my wife inthe kitchen, and Mr.
Jones and I are gonna go drink abeer and uh and gamble on the
street.
Do do they sometimes get upsetabout that?
Or does does everybody just kindof okay, this when when in
Uganda do as the Ugandans?

(19:45):
No, what happens, you know, wewe don't just bring them into a
community and say you are goingto do this and all that.
We give them a briefing uhbefore.
Okay.
Uh we tell them what happens intheir community.
For example, uh in a localhomestead, the children uh
before they go to school, forexample, they have to wake up

(20:06):
very early, they go to fetchwater from the well, they bring
it, they prepare something, orthey go and uh fetch firewood
from the forest and come backand then shower and go to
school.
Okay, yeah, the same uh whereaslike in America, you guys, I

(20:28):
mean, also when you go to liketo Kampala, my capital city, of
course, I now take my childrento school, I drive them to
school, but me myself, you know,it was very tough, you know.
So so we have to give a briefingto the client so that they
understand uh how it works.
Uh it may is not a must that thewoman must go and prepare

(20:51):
whatever, but they can go andlearn how things are done, you
know, learn how to weavebaskets, you know, what happens.
Because you go to a craft shop,you see uh a red basket, but you
don't know how it is made.
You go to a traditionalrestaurant, you see uh the local
food, you don't know how it ismade.

(21:12):
So going deep and understand andparticipate, you know, you make
your hands dirty.
Some of the things that havemade us really do well, you
know, in the last 20 years,creating special uh experiences
for clients.
Do you do you if you have a uheither a couple or just a man in

(21:32):
a group that really likes tocook, maybe he's a chef, maybe
he just really likes to cook andhe wants to learn how to make
Ugandan food, is that an option?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's an option.
Like uh we've we've done it,like you have a big group, so
people divide themselves intogroups, so men and women can
participate and do.

(21:54):
But uh when you're deep in thevillage and uh they see a man
trying to cook, they laugh athim.
They think they think he'spresent, you know, they think
he's present.
But uh, this is how you know,like uh African tradition uh has
been built that you know uh aman is given respect, but of
course, we all growing up, we'veknown that you know a man must

(22:17):
also be responsible.
You know, you have to yeah,there's a the other side to that
have responsibilities.
Have you uh provided for thefamily?
Have you you know all thesethings comes hand in hand?
You know, yeah.
What about children?
I suspect you've had groups orclients that come with their
children, yeah.

(22:38):
Um, and how do the children kindof participate in an activity
like that?
Do do the Ugandan children arethey happy to have maybe kids
from the US or kids from Europeum playing with them, doing
things with them, or is thattell me a little bit about that?

(23:01):
Yeah, you see, um, there aresome communities where Uh, like
children have never seen uh uhin Uganda we call a mozung.
Is a white person, you know?
Yeah, yeah.
Uh so they have never seen um awhite man or my white woman in
the community.
So if it happens, they are soexcited and they welcome them.

(23:24):
And what they want to do isplace the children who've done
it, uh they want to touch thehair, they want to be like
peace.
You know, uh, I remember growingup one time uh it was a funny
situation.
Um uh this guy is uh riding,he's cycling around, you know,
so he passes through ourcommunity, and I think he wanted

(23:47):
to go to the toilet.
But then there is no toilet, isuh, you know.
So what he does, he goessomewhere in the bush and uh he
does his business, and when heleft, the whole community went
to see and he confirmed if he'slooking like theirs, you know,
like ours, you know.

(24:08):
You know, I also went there tosee to is it dream like ours or
no?
Or is it like you know,something uh it was something uh
very interesting.
So uh until now, when I grew up,I realized that okay, oh, these
people, you know, we think theyare coming from the Mars or
somewhere, like yeah, so cominghere, like so it was something

(24:31):
like that.
So the the the children, likewe've had I work with a school
from the UK, and uh every yearthey bring uh about uh 60
students, you know, around 13,uh 15 years.
And uh what we do is we takethem into a community, and um
these guys have come from the UKand uh they live luxury life.

(24:54):
Everything is there, they havephones, uh you know, they're
really well off, you know.
So the idea is to bring theminto the community that is very
poor, where children don't wearshoes, they are not sure if they
are gonna have lunch, but theyjust go to school.
Maybe with the you know, we geta book and cut it into two so
that you know you can use itmany times.

(25:15):
You know?
Oh, yeah, yeah.
So we bring them there, they areintegrated and they become
friends so that by the time theyleave, they go back to the UK.
They have have a mindset changebecause you know technology now
is you know everywhere.
And then they have also uhtaught something to the village
children, so they integrate.
So this happens a lot that youknow the children go there and

(25:39):
they are become they becomefriends and you know they mingle
with with the local people.
And yeah.
Do you think that children, likelet's say you said this group is
like maybe 13 to 15 years old?
Yeah, yeah.
Do you do you sense thatchildren connect quicker and are

(26:00):
more open with each other thanadults?
Like if you brought a group of asimilar-sized group of adults
that are 40 to 50 years old andput them with um some of the
older people in the communitythere in the village, will they
connect as quickly as the kids?
Or do you do you notice that thekids connect quicker, or what

(26:23):
are what do you see?
It depends which community, butyou know, um there is always
like what we call culture shock.
You know, the culture shock, youknow, like um now these
children, like what I'venoticed, like when um they reach
into the village, that cultureshock comes in and then they

(26:44):
become shy, and somehow, youknow, like you know, uh most of
the things are strange, there isno flashing toilet, they are
using a pit latrine, yeah, youknow.
So for children, sometimes it isvery complicated, but later when
they you know uh they get used,you know, it is okay.
But for adults, uh it becomeseasier to you know to uh to

(27:08):
really uh mingle and uh uhconnect with the local people.
Okay.
That's a little that's a littledifferent than I thought.
So I'm happy I asked thatquestion, but it makes sense
because if you look at kids that13 to 15 is a really difficult
time for kids.

(27:29):
Yeah, yeah.
They have a hard time makingfriends in their own community
sometimes.
There's a lot of a lot of uh,yeah, it can be a challenge.
I've I have kids and I rememberwhen I was that age.
So um I also remember when I was12, I went to Australia, and the

(27:49):
children in Australia werefascinated.
We looked the same, but ouraccent, just the accent, they I
remember these these girls.
I was there with my brother, andI remember these girls that
would they just wanted to hearus say their names.
They were just like, please say,ooh, say my name, say my name.

(28:09):
Oh, put it with the accent.
Yeah, because the accent.
So I can imagine um, you know,Ugandas, there's obviously
accent, language, so manycultural differences.
Um, all right.
That's that's very cool.
Now let's talk about when youwere 13.
Let's let's go back into yourstory and figure out how the

(28:31):
hell when you went to wegathered to check if the looks I
was like I was, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
So I just I want to hear alittle bit about your childhood
and figure out kind of how youended up doing what you're
doing.
The last time we spoke, you toldme a little bit about your
history, but I want to dig intothat.
So tell us, I guess, about yourfamily.

(28:53):
What was it like growing up whenyou were, you know, 10, 12, 13,
whatever, uh, in your family?
Yeah, actually 10, 13.
Uh, I was um uh I was more uhdoing things of an adult, you
know.
Okay.
Uh but I I take you like back,you know, I'm I'm the firstborn

(29:16):
in my family.
And um we we were at the end wewere like we were 11 brothers
and sisters.
So I was the firstborn.
Wow.
Wow.
Okay.
Uh the first child in the in thevillage, uh local setup, of
course.
Uh when you are by the time youare three years, you you you

(29:38):
already start doing work becausethey have to send you pick this,
you know.
So I started very early when Iwas uh really growing up, but
life was very complicated.
You know, it was verycomplicated.
Um my family was the poorest inthe community.
If there is competition for poorpeople, would you take a medal?

(29:58):
Okay, you know, you know, yeah,okay.
But um, you know, my parents, uhmy father was very strong.
Uh he had a belief thateducation is the key.
And remember when I was growingup, he would tell me that if you
don't go to school, you'd be theone uh working in the like
cleaning the roads and whatever.

(30:19):
And so if you get anopportunity, you should go to
school.
But he never had capacity tosend me to school.
So and I assume I assume hedidn't go to school, probably.
No, no, no, no.
No, he did not go to school.
Okay, yeah.
For them growing up, uh theparents would give them land.
Uh, when you are uh like 15, youget married or whatever, and but

(30:41):
yeah, so uh so what happens now,and we had a problem with
religion, you know.
Uh a Catholic and Protestantmajor with a dominant uh
religion, so I cannot go.
I'm a Catholic, so I should notgo to a Protestant school.
Okay, I have to walk for like uhone hour uh to go to a Catholic

(31:04):
school, no shoes, no packedlunch, I have to go, and I'll
only drink water from the well,and then I come back uh come
back home.
So how how old were you when youstarted going to school?
Yeah, I think it was four orfive years, you know.
I think it was five years, yeah.

(31:25):
So you're walking an hour toschool barefoot at five.
Yeah, no, no sweater, nothing,and um yeah, yeah, and uh of
course the other children fromthe community are going, so I'm
not going alone, so you're goingtogether and and so I study, and

(31:47):
uh by then the government waspaying for us.
It was not it was not expensive.
So the parent would only providefood and buy books for the for
the children.
Okay, but you'd find when I'vegone, I have no book.
I have to write on the ground,you know.
Uh and I'm not the only oneactually.
You know, you have to write onthe ground, you know.

(32:09):
Uh and uh so that period passed,and uh the first session uh of
primary school, I passed it.
But you know, uh you are goingto school as you grow up, you
have no lunch.
When time for lunch comes, thepeople who came with packed
lunch will go and for you tostay there looking.

(32:30):
Oh, yeah.
If you are lucky, they'll callyou and say uh you can come and
eat.
But if it happens every day,then they start mocking you, you
know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So sometimes you rather say,okay, uh, let me just stay
there, maybe I start playingwhatever.
If you are lucky, maybe theygive you like a sweet potato,

(32:51):
you put it in a bat and uh in apolytheny bag, you come with it,
and yeah, so we would maneuver.
So do you do you remember everjust telling the other kids, oh,
I'm not hungry, because you feltbad about the situation.
So maybe just like, oh no, I'mnot hungry.
I didn't bring lunch because I'mnot hungry.

(33:12):
Would you say something likethat, or would they just know
you were lying?
They would know, they would knowbecause they knew from the very
poor family.
So sometimes, you know, uh agood Samaritan would say, Okay,
you know, please join us.
They even put my hand and say,Please come and uh uh come and
uh and eat.
And even uh in a community, theywould mock my father, like when

(33:33):
they are in the trading center,they say for you, you are yeah,
you are poor.
What did you yeah, what did yourfather do to support a family
with 11 kids?
What kind of work was he doing?
Nothing.
Like uh it was my mother who wasdoing all the work.
My father, uh my fathersometimes uh he somehow became a

(33:58):
cameraman at some stage and thendidn't work, and then uh later
he was trying to do somefarming, but because he didn't
have enough land, it was notpossible.
So during my childhood age of uhfrom six, uh going uh seven,
eight, ten, I would go with mymother to to farm in people's

(34:18):
gardens uh so that they give usfood, you know, to take home and
eat with our siblings, you know.
So my mother was doing most ofthe work with me because I was
the firstborn.
And so after the primary school,because you have to go to
secondary school.
Well, let me ask you this beforewe before we get there.
Yeah, so you had 11 kids in yourfamily.

(34:40):
They kept every year my mother,every year my mother was
producing.
Every year, yeah, so your dadwas doing something.
Yes, my dad was busy, he wascontributing something to the
family.
Okay, yes, yes, yes, yeah.
But uh the thing is, uh, whatyou must understand that all 11
children were not together.

(35:01):
You know, some were some diedand all that, you know.
But okay, every year my mother,my mother's job is to to go and
farm in people's gardens so thatthey give her food to feed the
family.
Okay, right, yeah, yeah.
As I was growing, I have toescort her so that if they were
to give her one kill of beans,then they'll give her one and a
half, you know, okay, somethinglike that.

(35:22):
And you'd you have to to farmthe whole day, you know?
Yeah.
Okay.
So it was very tough, you know.
But then I can imagine.
So my father was always, he'slike, you have to study hard.
You know, he he was uh reallyvery tough on me.
And so after that level, I'mgoing to secondary school.

(35:44):
Uh there was a second secondaryschool nearby, and it was not
expensive.
So we start going.
You have to work for like oneand a half hours.
Um, how how old are you when youstart secondary school?
Uh when I when I started thesecondary school, I was um I was

(36:05):
uh 11.
Yeah, I think about 11, okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, how so did I do wantto ask you this?
I think I was I was 13.
I was 13, yeah.
I was 13, yeah, when I joined uhwhen I went to secondary school,
yeah.
13, yeah.
I have I have two questionsbefore we start talking about

(36:25):
that.
I guess the first is you hadwhat did the typical family did
the other families have thatmany kids, or did you have like
what do you think the averagenumber of kids was was for a
family in your community?
Eight at that time.
Eight okay, so yeah, so you wereyour family was a little bit

(36:48):
bigger than average, yeah.
Yeah, so the it was it becauseyou see, there's no family
planning, and uh and so I mean,what do you expect?
You know, yeah, yeah.
No, I I I I get that.
That that tends to happen.
Uh and so I I start now thejourney every day you have to

(37:08):
go.
Um, if the school fee is liketen dollars, you must pay at
least two dollars, you know, atthe start.
So sometimes my father is islucky, he has the two dollars to
pay, you go, and then uh thecommunity members actually they
were in a trading center, andthe uh one uh one whose child
was going to school with me.

(37:30):
Uh, he told he told uh she toldhim that for you uh you are you
are just let your child escortour child our children because
for you cannot manage to payschool fees.
Okay, you get you get itproperly, that uh telling my
father that for me I'm escortingthe other children to school
because he cannot afford to takea child in a second school.

(37:53):
Okay.
I want to understand that,Felix.
What I hear you saying isbecause you didn't have money to
pay for school, yeah.
You your job was to escort andmaybe take care of the other
kids and then no, no, no, no,no.
Okay, so they were the communitymembers were mocking my father,
telling him they're laughing athim, that for you you cannot

(38:16):
take a child in a second school.
That what he can only do is uhto follow our children because
for us we're able to pay.
You know?
Okay.
Yes, that's how that's how itwas.
And so my father remained verystrong.
So from time to time would writeletters to take the principal of
the school and ask him if he canlet me if he can let me study,

(38:40):
and then he can pay slowly byslowly, maybe, you know.
And one year was uh was done,and I was doing very well in
class, I was very intelligent,you know, and uh second second
year comes and then life isbecoming very complicated, you
know.
So I go there and then I cannotpay school fees, it is really

(39:02):
tough.
When you said it was twodollars, is it two dollars per
month?
It was like um thirty dollarsper year.
Okay, thirty dollars per year iswhat we're talking about.
That's what it was that wasdifficult.
Yeah, it's those greatdifficulty.
Yeah, yeah, you know, and I'mcurious.
I guess the other question Iwant to ask is because you were

(39:25):
a firstborn, you were the firstchild in your family.
Yeah, in in Uganda, was thatsignificant?
Did you get special treatment?
Was it did they make a a biggereffort to get you through school
because you were the first?
And like maybe like number 11 inyour family, did they have the
same privileges?

(39:46):
Or what what was that like beingfirstborn in the family?
You see, when you're thefirstborn, you know, like uh
they say firstborn, especiallywhen you're a boy in a in a
community, you're like ablessing, you know, and that's
why they even calledMimusingguzi, which means a
winner.
So it's like my father wasrebletting that he's one because

(40:07):
his first child is a boy, youknow.
Okay, ah, interesting.
So he tried, he tried really, hetried.
And uh so the second year, itwas difficult.
That was in 1996, it was verydifficult.
So, what happens now?
Uh I go back home, I cannotproceed, and my father is very

(40:29):
stressed, and he's like, Oh, myson cannot proceed.
And so what happened Felix,yeah, if you don't mind.
Tell me a little bit more whenyou say the second year was
difficult.
What was what was going on inyour world that second year that
made it so difficult?
Yeah, so my father couldn'tcould hardly raise uh the

(40:51):
instalment payments that I wouldtake to school.
And so he gave up and said, youknow, I have tried my my
everything, and yeah, theycannot allow you to go to school
when I have not paid.
Okay, you know, and so I go backand all my edge mates, all of my

(41:12):
edge mates, they are thinking ofgetting married, you know.
And so that was also my journal.
I'm like, okay, maybe I shoulduh try to uh to build a small
hut, you know, the you know, thesmall round huts, and then maybe
I look for a woman.
So one day I I clear the ground,and then uh when my father comes

(41:35):
in the evening, my mother tellshim that your son is clearing
the ground and uh he says he'sgoing to build and marry.
Wow.
My father called him and you andyou were like 14, probably.
Yes.
So my father calls me, and uhhe's like, you know what?
I'm gonna teach you a lesson.

(41:58):
He told me to look for the um uhhe he told me to to lie down
that he's going to beat me, youknow.
And he told me that I must coverthe land.
That's that ground I wasclearing, I must cover it.
I should never think of that,you know.
Okay, because it what I hear ishe didn't want you to give up on

(42:22):
school, but he had given up onpaying for your school.
Yeah, but he also did not wantme to now start thinking of
getting married, you know, atanother age, another age.
Like uh I should have been uhyeah, you know, by then you
don't know the age very well,but I think I should have been
like 15 or something, you know.

(42:43):
So well, what did what did hewant you to do?
He didn't want you to build upto get married.
He was hopeful that he wantedyou to give up.
Yeah, maybe he'll get money andthen I go back, you know.
It was he was hopeful.
Okay.
All right.
You know, so at 16 years, youknow, I escaped from home.
I escaped from home.

(43:03):
I have to look for survival, youknow, because I can't stay home,
I'm not going to school.
Uh they are laughing at me, theyare laughing at him, you know.
So you are not a fit in thecommunity.
So what happened?
I went to a place uh called LakeBunyoni, you know, uh look for a
job, and I landed on a campsite.

(43:23):
Uh how far away was Lakepronounce it for me again, Lake.
Lake Bunyoni.
I I walked, uh I left around uh5 a.m.
Yeah, and uh I stole my mother'smat.
I carried it along, and uh theidea was that I should sell it
on the way and get some money tofacilitate uh uh on the meals.

(43:46):
You stole yeah, I walked youstole her mat, like with the mat
sleep on?
Okay, yeah, the mats, you know,the yes.
Okay, all right, okay, yeah.
So I sold it that workout.
Yeah, I sold it uh a few centsand I was able to buy lunch on
the way.
Okay, so I was very lucky that Igot my first job at the

(44:09):
campsite.
Uh it was called the CaliboneBeach around Lake Bunoni.
Yeah.
And what made me how did you getthat?
How did you get that job?
So there's a story that lucky.
Lucky enough, um the firstfamily that I that I went to, I
was actually looking for a jobto be a shamba, you know, the
shamba boys?

(44:30):
Like um people who like I cometo your house and I have to do
the cleaning, I have to, youknow, to do all the dirty work
at home, you know.
Okay, all right.
If you have cows, I can takecare of them, you know.
It I was looking for that kindof job.
By luck, uh, this family has acampsite at Lake Adelake, and
they are looking for a personwho can speak English.

(44:52):
Uh, who can who can go and work.
Why did why did they want whydid they want someone that spoke
English?
Because it was a campsite wheretourists were in.
In the in in the overland truckswould go for tourists.
All right.
Okay.
You know, so so I get this joband I was so excited.

(45:13):
The first time I reached there,like every day the tourists are
coming and uh I'm speakingEnglish.
Um I was doing the cleaning, Iwas doing the serving food, I
was opening the gate,everything, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
So I'm there, all smiley and allthat.
I was very happy that you knowmy life has changed, my family's

(45:36):
life is gonna change.
And so this job is veryinteresting.
And uh after like uh six months,a young couple is called Abbey
and Miles.
Uh Abbey was an American, she'scalled Abbey, Abbey Gil Kaplin,

(45:58):
and the guy was called Milesfrom Australia.
They were a young couple, sothey are on an Ovel and track,
and what happens is that theyare wondering, I'm a young man,
boy, I'm speaking good English,other kids are going to school,
me, I'm not going to school.
And they see I'm working veryhard than any other worker.

(46:19):
So they pull me aside and theystart asking me, How come?
How come when you are here andothers are in school?
I say no, life became tough, Icould not proceed.
So I'm lucky to have gotten thisjob, and that's why I'm here.
I'm raising money.
So maybe in the future I can goback to school.

(46:39):
Okay, yeah.
So they they say, okay, wow,that's very interesting.
So they asked me if they wouldsponsor me if I would go back to
school.
Wow.
I said, Yeah, that's that's goodnews.
So they say amazing news.
That's wonderful.
It's amazing.
So they they they stopped theirtrip, they they never proceeded

(47:00):
from anywhere.
They said, We are gonna stayhere, we want to help you go to
school.
So Lake Bunywani is veryinteresting, it has 29 islands,
and one of the islands has asecondary school, has a primary
school, has a church, you know.
So we went by canoe to ask foradmission to be admitted in that

(47:22):
secondary school.
So I go there, they give it tothey give us the vacancy, they
pay, and we go back now to myjob to say I'm saying bye-bye.
I have got an opportunity to goback to school.
Okay.
My employers were not happyabout it.

(47:42):
They locked my luggage in the inthe in the storage and said, You
are not going anywhere.
So wow.
So this young couple, what theydid was to to say we're going to
police to report.
First of all, this is childlabor.
And secondly, is uh this guy hasan opportunity to go back to
school.
It was his dream.

(48:04):
So that's how they they acceptedand they went to school.
Now, the funny thing is thatreaching at that school,
remember they have paid for oneterm.
Right.
They have gone, we don't haveany contact, there's they are
moving, you know, like theseguys who move, they get a job
somewhere, they after working,they proceed well uh like

(48:26):
traveling.
That's that's what they weredoing.
Right.
Yeah.
Remember, I have lost the otherjob.
Um in school, they have paid forfirst term, the second term, I
didn't have money to pay.
Yeah.
Well, before we get into that,the school was on an island.
Yeah, on an island, yeah.
So it was uh you can't.
So you said you left your job.
Okay, so you left your job,yeah.

(48:48):
Went to the island and youstayed at the school.
It was like a boarding school.
Okay.
What did do you remember what itcost for a term of uh, I assume,
room, a place of sleep, food,and school?
Everything was uh$300 by year.

(49:09):
Per year, okay.
All right,$300 in theperspective.
So$100 for each town.
Oh, so okay, I got you.
So there's three terms in ayear, and they paid for the
first term.
Yeah, in a in uh in some placesthey they they they are in
semesters, but for us it wasjust terms.
Okay.
All right, yeah.

(49:29):
So what happened now?
I I I I've lost a job.
These guys have gone, the schoolwants money for the second term.
Yeah, but because that islandwas very popular, it was very
popular that it would hosttourists.
People would go there, they goin the canoes, and then they
want to around, you know.
There was also a leprosy colony,like uh where all the lepers

(49:53):
would be and they had some goodhistory and all that.
It was a very big island.
So I started now thinking, whatam I going to do?
I cannot get my job back.
So, what I did, I just declaredmyself as a tour guide of the
whole island.
I love it, you know, you know,you know, I just I love that

(50:15):
created a job by myself.
So and likely enough, the firstthe first group that came was
coming from the US.
There were about uh 10 people,and so I see them coming in the
canoe, I go and welcome them.
I introduced them and I wastrying to speak American accent,

(50:37):
you know.
Then they told me we are fromAmerica.
It's oh hi, you know, I'm tryingto speak American, and all of
them were laughing at me, like,oh, you guys, you are funny.
So this young man uh who waslike um one year older than me,
uh maybe we were age matescalled Kevin Schulz.
Uh-huh.
He becomes my friend.

(50:59):
He's like, you know what?
Uh you are a very interestingguy.
And I told them why I'm doingthat job while others in class.
He's like, my mother is ateacher.
I'm gonna talk to her when I getback home.
You know, I'm gonna talk to herto see if she can sponsor you.
Wow.
And this and this was your veryfirst, I guess we're gonna call

(51:22):
it a guide, your first guidegroup, right?
Man, you've got a lot of luckgoing on.
That's one does, you know.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But you but and you know what isI love that you just took the
initiative to just to just tellthe universe I am a guide.
Yes, you know, as opposed to oh,maybe someday I can go to school

(51:47):
and become a guide.
You're just like, no, I am aguide.
I'm a tour guide because youremember I love that.
I was all these guys who bringthe the tourists knew me.
I was working at the othercampsite at the mainland.
Yeah, yeah.
So these guys go, there is nocommunication.
It is only sending a letter, soI only gave him the address of

(52:08):
the school.
So the first check they sent inthe through a post office, the
the one hundred dollars was uhwas in uh in an envelope, sent a
school uh post box and uh theyreceived the envelope, it was
for me.
Yeah, they picked the money andkept quiet.

(52:31):
Oh jeez.
You know, so me, I'm there atschool, I'm playing with the
with the children of the guy whouh he was, I think he was a vice
uh the deputy head teacher.
The children of the guy tells meoh we we saw you uh late at
home.
You know, yeah why did you pickit?

(52:53):
So we just went home, picked it,and a very good handwriting from
Girl Schulz, uh, who accepted tobe my sponsor is saying that I'm
gonna be your sponsor.
I've taken an extra job.
You know, she was a teacher inIllinois and so an art teacher,
so she got another job somewhereto raise money to pay for me.

(53:16):
Wow.
You know?
Wow, yeah.
You see what happened?
The first money she sends isswindled, I can't access it.
So um I went to town, there wasa fax, you know.
By then, fax and uh letters thething of communication.
So I write a letter, I tell her,you know, this and this

(53:37):
happened, I didn't get themoney, but you know, here is the
the owner of this uhcommunication center.
He has a fax.
He also has a forex bureau, soyou can uh talk to him.
His contacts are these.
He knows me, he's gonna help memake sure that when you send
money, it is reached.
It reaches so we agree now.

(54:00):
It's like, okay, I'm gonna sendyou first of all money to go and
pay school fees, but also moneythat you are going to open your
own postal box number, P boxnumber.
That's my send you a letter, itis gonna come direct to you.
You don't have to worry aboutsomebody else.
Yeah, I got it.
So okay.
So so so that's how to it camethat I was owning the P.O.

(54:23):
box at my early age, and now shestarted sending me school fees.
I studied hard, hard, hard, youknow, and I was doing very well.
I continued doing the guidingjob at the island, you know.
Yeah, yeah.
And this is a woman, this is awoman you never met.
You met her son.

(54:43):
I never met my son, who is oneyear older than you.
Yeah, and he went back and said,Mom, I met this guy named Felix,
and you got he's really cool,but he needs he needs some money
for school.
Yeah, yeah.
That's pretty cool.
Yeah, so Gail accepted to payfor me, and that's how the

(55:04):
journey, my journey began.
But now you remember, I have myother siblings.
My parents cannot afford to payfor them, so I took them up.
I'm studying, I'm doing someother jobs, so I have to pay
school fees for them.
And so when I was um going tohigh school, uh I started

(55:30):
selling crayfish.
You know, the the crayfish islike the robsters, you know.
I started that business, youknow, and I connected, I
connected with volunteers whoare in uh in the neighborhood.
I would take crayfish to them,and so I earned extra money.
So I make I met another friendof mine, okay.
She was um a volunteer calledAnne Davenport from the UK.

(55:54):
She helps me and uh she's like,Yeah, I'm gonna make a banner
for you to market your businessand all that.
So we become friends, and thenshe introduces me to her twin
children, he had twins.
And so when I was going touniversity, they raised, they
said, We are going to supportyou so that by the time you

(56:15):
complete your university, youhave enough pounds to start your
own business.
Wow.
So I said, Yes, this is verygood.
This is very good news.
Now, I also continued selling mycrayfish uh in Kampala, and uh
uh every weekend I would uh Iwould sell crayfish in Kampala.

(56:37):
How would you tell tell me moreabout that?
What was that like?
Because you were living on anisland in the lake.
After after after after college,second school, I left the island
and I went to study the highschool was in uh was in town.
Okay.
So so that's when I started thatbusiness because I was so
creative that I needed to startmaking some money.

(56:57):
You know?
Were you were you stillinterested in the guiding or did
you give that up to sell okay?
Yeah, the guiding uh actually uhthe guiding was still
interested, but I uh what I didwas to to get other jobs to work
at another campsite, you know,okay during holidays, during

(57:19):
holidays.
It was also at Lake Munoni.
So every every holiday I'mworking, but I'm also selling
the crayfish.
Okay, right.
So that uh Anne has got me adeal to raise money.
They are sending me money everymonth.
It is meant for school fees, Imean for starting a business

(57:40):
when I complete my studies.
But remember, I have my siblingswho need to go to school.
Right.
I touched that money, I startedpaying school fees for my
siblings.
Yeah.
Right.
So I somehow disappointed them.
Okay.
Well, that's that's a tough spotto be in.
It's hard to hard to sit withmoney in your pocket when you're

(58:03):
when your siblings are needhelp.
You know?
Yeah.
So I'm like, okay, uh, butluckily I I was able to also go
ahead, of course, and start uhthe business.
But you know, the idea, ifyou're giving me money, uh, I
need to do it for the purposeyou've given it to me.
Because they uh they did notwant me to carry the

(58:25):
responsibility of my father.
They were like, no, the otherone is uh it is his
responsibility, so he must takecare.
But I understand the situation,you know.
Yeah, so uh to cut a story shortis um I go to university and I
say I must go and study tourism.
Okay, yeah.

(58:46):
So this tourism I do it becausethis is where I have come from,
it is what connected me topeople, and I love it.
I love meeting people, you know,and I say I must start my own
business.
So when I completed theuniversity, I was working, and
then later uh I went back to thecampsite at Lake Union to work,

(59:07):
and then um after a short time Iquit and I started uh working
somewhere in a town where therewas uh a um a local museum uh
talking about the local people,about the culture of Bachiga
people.
Yeah, I'm a Muchiga by tribe.
So the museum was majorly toshowcase the culture, you know,

(59:31):
how the old people, the localpeople used to live, how they
would do this, how they dowhatever.
And the idea was that we wecould also integrate some travel
business, you know.
Uh there was a community projectwhere volunteers were coming
from Slovenia.
The founder was a Slovenian guycalled Mihar, and uh, when uh we

(59:55):
worked out the first trip, we uhsomething happened and uh uh we
were not in the same direction,so I left.
Then I started working atanother job as a manager of a
restaurant and an internet cafe,you know, and from there it's
when I started my first companycalled Felix the Cat.

(01:00:17):
You know?
Okay.
You know, you had you know thecartoon called Felix the Cat,
right?
I do, yeah, Felix the Cat, yeah,absolutely.
Yes, yeah so the reason why Istarted I called uh my company
Felix the Cat Africa Safaris waseverywhere I introduced myself
to Americans, they would say,Are you Felix the Cat?

(01:00:40):
Oh yeah, that that makes sense.
I get that.
Yeah, yeah, I get that.
So so the idea was that if Istart, if I name the company
Felix the Cat, people willremember it, it's going to be
very popular.
That was my idea, and with thatreality, I can start getting
business.
Yeah, that's smart.

(01:01:01):
So that was like, yeah, but thenwhat happened to the case?
Let me ask you this.
When you started Felix the Cat,what what what did that look
like when you say I started myfirst business?
Because in a sense, you startedbusinesses, but you started a
business on the island when youdecided I'm a tour guide.
Yeah, and then you start andthen you started your safari

(01:01:24):
company.
Yes, but at least you'd gone toschool.
You went to school and got a andstudied in tourism.
Yes.
So you start Felix the Cat.
Did you go out and build awebsite?
Did you go out and printbrochures and signs?
Or what it what did that meanwhen you say I started the
business?
Yeah, so it was very funny.
Um I was targeting likevolunteers who come in that

(01:01:45):
region as my first coming.
So volunteers, did they havemoney?
Yeah, I mean, I have likebrochures.
Um, if they want to go for a dayexcursion, I'm there.
If they want to go to thegorillas, I am there.
Okay.
So the volunteers that wereworking there, they had some
money.

(01:02:06):
Yeah, in that region, yeah.
They were able you were able todo that.
Okay.
Yes.
Very cool.
And I have brochures, I takethem to hotels and all that.
They so the people have to callme.
And surprisingly, my firstclient was uh uh was from the
US.

(01:02:26):
You know?
Yeah she she's called Hero ItAll.
And uh so the husband, uh Henrywas the husband was uh was
visiting, was visiting uh.
Um, so here it says, you know,I'm gonna give you the the
business.
You're going to take us to anational park.
I want to go here and here.
I made the calculation and Ihired the car.

(01:02:48):
I got a driver because I didn'tknow how to drive.
So I went to the guide.
I went as a guide to thenational park.
I had never been to, you know.
But the driver, the driver knewwhere I were going.
So I I was able to create anitinerary, I costed it, and they
paid me.
I paid everything.
So they were my my firstcustomers.

(01:03:09):
That's so cool.
And did did they know did theyknow they were your first
customers?
Yes, I told them.
Okay.
All right.
Even up to now, uh celebrating20 years, I said you should be
here because you opened thedoors for me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But then after that, because uhbusiness was not easier, you
could not get business and allthat.

(01:03:31):
So now that's why I went back tothe tour guiding part.
You know?
Okay.
And now uh let me ask you this.
Let me ask you this real quick.
When you started this business,were you supposed to have a
guide license?
Did you have a guide license?
Did they did the government carethat you were promoting your
tourism business and guiding ina national park?

(01:03:53):
Or was that okay?
So, this one, how it works isthat you know, um, like I
started a business, you are myclient, so I'll take you to the
national park and I pay entrancefees.
Okay, and I pay for all theother activities, so the
government benefits in thatline.
But I do not have the license, Idid not have, you know, but the

(01:04:14):
driver were you supposed to?
Were you supposed to have alicense?
I think we don't need to talkabout that.
Yeah, we I was supposed to havea license, I was supposed to,
but you know, as a beginner, itwas not possible.
It was not possible.
I know, I know.
It's hard to it's hard to starta business when you've got to
pay licensing, and yeah.

(01:04:35):
Yes, okay.
So we won't talk about thatanymore.
As luck comes in, I um I know acertain Dutch guy.
Um, he runs a restaurant, andhis son had started a tour
company, and uh I tell him thatyou know, I want to be a tour
guide for for the company, andso they give me the opportunity.

(01:04:58):
The first opportunity they gaveme is when I met Vincent, who is
now your business partner, yeah,Vincent Van Thoff, who is uh the
co-founder with me, uh who iswho we started the company with
Kazinga Tours.
So now he did not know that itwas my first trip, you know.

(01:05:18):
But I had a driver, I am goingas a tour guide, but I do not
know.
I mean, um I know facts about anational park, but I don't know.
I've never been there.
So uh we go, I try to understandthe the interests of him and his
wife.
So we reach somewhere, we aresupposed to have lunch, and uh

(01:05:41):
by then there were many internetcafes in each town, so you have
no internet on the phone, so youhave to go to the internet cafe.
So we stopped, he wanted to goto the internet cafe.
I said, also I also want to goto the internet cafe because uh
I need to see if I have got anemail.
So he's trying to ask me, Whatdo you do?

(01:06:01):
Uh uh why do you have to checkinternet?
I said, No, no, no.
The owner of this company is myfriend, and um, he knows I have
a small company, so I'm checkingto see if I can uh I have an
inquiry or something.
Right, yep.
So we go, and then he had toldme he wanted to if I see any
nice sunset, I should tell him.

(01:06:23):
He told me and the driver, butum uh actually I'm the one who
was driving, and the other guywas a guide.
But I I seemed later to be uh Iwas seen as more knowledgeable
than the guide.
Uh-huh.
So immediately we reached thenational park, he was busy
having a drink.
I saw a very nice sunset.
I went and called him.

(01:06:44):
I said, There's a very goodsunset, please come and we go to
take the photo.
On the river Nile, you know,very nice sunset.
So he went and took the thepicture, and he told me, You are
the first uh the first personwho I told in Africa that you
know I like this and then in.

(01:07:04):
Immediately on point, and youhave showed it to me.
So well done.
So that's how the connectionstarted.
You realize that I'm very uhfocused.
I know what I'm doing, I'mworking very hard to achieve
many things.
And during the trip, because itwas it was for three weeks, uh,
we agreed that you know I needto change the company name.

(01:07:25):
Uh Felix Dekati was funny.
So so I had to I now had tochange it uh later, but we
select many names, but we heldin on Kazinga Tours.
You know, Kazinga Tours uhbecause we have a uh second
largest national park in Ugandacalled Queen Elizabeth.

(01:07:45):
Uh formerly it was KazingaNational Park until the Queen
and the Queen of England uhvisited uh the area and they
changed it into her name.
So I was lucky to have thatname, you know, for my company.
So that is how Kazinga to camein place.

(01:08:05):
Were you were you happy aboutthat?
Like when when Vincent said youshould change your name from
Felix the Cat.
Did you agree with himoriginally?
Or did you did you kind of wantto keep the name, or what was
that like?
No, he explained to me themeaning, like what to meet what
you must do for you to have asuccessful uh business.

(01:08:26):
People always want to ask whythis name and all that, you
know.
So you thought I needed to havea local name that had some
influence, and I dropped theother.
So I I already knew why youshould drop it.
Okay, but it makes sense kind ofif you're if you want to make
money and maybe sell to uhhigher end uh tours and stuff

(01:08:51):
like that, you might maybe wanta respectful name that has some
significance to the community.
I love I love Felix the Cat.
Yeah, I get that.
All right, okay, yeah, verycool.
Yeah, so the um the idea we wesaid uh they we are going to
start a company, but looking atmy history, where I've come

(01:09:14):
from, let us create very goodexperiences to people who in
turn go back and changecommunities.
We have a special conceptwhereby the tourists will come
and visit uh uh Uganda.
We do not look at money butcreate experiences that will
make them fall in love withUganda and leave an impact in

(01:09:35):
the community.
Nice, you know.
So, because of that approach, uhthe two worlds of the Dutch and
the Ugandan complementing eachother were able to achieve that
because uh education in Europeis more advanced.
I was here uh with a lot of ofcourse excitement, so we have to

(01:09:56):
connect and you know uh and sobecause of that we we have been
able to run the company for 20years, which is a very big
milestone, you know.
Very cool.
And we're we're recording thisin 2006.
Is uh 2006 is when we st we wewe opened it, and then uh one

(01:10:19):
year later is when we go to ourfirst agent from Germany, uh
called Romeo, Romeo Kluger.
He's like, hi I've seen uh I'veseen you guys have a good
website, so I want to see if Ican partner with you.
So a first agent from Europe,you know.
How did you how did you startthe I I guess this is a question
I asked before um aboutsomething else, but how did you

(01:10:42):
invent to actually start thecompany?
What was like what what happenedthat, like, okay, now we're in
business.
Kazinga, was it a website?
Was it just a businessagreement, a contract?
How did you start the business?
In the beginning, actually, oneto help me, but uh I said, you
know, you have seen my journey.
It will be good if we do thistogether because he had a very

(01:11:05):
big job in the Netherlands.
You know, he was a managerearning a lot of money, and I
don't think he ever thought thathe would really be an investor
in Uganda.
So we we started small, like Iregistered it, then he worked on
the website, worked on thegraphics, have a logo and all
that, and then we startedmarketing.
So in 2007, it was my first timeto go to to go in a plane and go

(01:11:29):
to Europe, you know, to go andattend an expo and uh you know
uh what was that like?
Yeah, what was that like?
Being in a plane?
Well, just you know, leavingUganda, getting on a plane,
going to Europe, like you're youknow, the African guy coming

(01:11:53):
over from Africa to Europe,never never been out of Africa.
What did you did you feelwelcome?
Was it you're pretty you'repretty courageous guy, so I'm
assuming it wasn't that big of adeal.
Everything I mean, I was I don'tthink really I was focusing even
in selling the company.
I was so excited, seeing thetall buildings, selling the

(01:12:15):
trends, seeing whatever, likeeverything, you know, like uh
you can imagine I landed at uhShippo Airport in the morning.
It was I think uh 6 45 in themorning, and I just uh see the
burger king, which I had neverseen, and I I saw I I had to

(01:12:36):
order for a bagger, which waslike uh it was called the
Whooper.
I had uh you know, it was atbreakfast, you know.
Uh yeah, yeah.
I yeah, that's exciting.
So it's so it was uh it was veryinteresting to, of course, uh I
was so excited.
And um yeah, yeah.
Did you feel like did you feellike oh man, this is all

(01:12:59):
working?
Look at this.
This is all working out uh in away that you never you never
imagined when you were 14,clearing the ground to build
your hut.
I kept believing, you know, Ikept believing, and my mother uh
she's so prayful, like she'salways praying for me.
So I always believed, I keptbelieving.

(01:13:20):
I knew that, you know, with hardwork, uh, honesty, you know, uh
uh sticking to a principle wouldreally bring results.
This is gonna maybe sound like astrange question to some people.
Like it even sounds strange tome, and I haven't asked it yet.
But do you ever reflect andthink, I'm happy that my dad

(01:13:44):
laid me down on the ground andwhooped my ass?
Yes, and uh and uh because ofthat, you know, right now my
father in the community is uh uhhe has respect, uh he's uh he
dresses very well, he's uh veryproud that his toughness, even
when he had no capacity to payfor me, that uh uh he thought he

(01:14:07):
would at some stage get moneyand uh take me back to school.
So his dream also uh and so he'sum I had to now build for for
them a house.
Uh he's always dressed in asuit, he's uh he drinks beer
anytime he wants, you know.
So yeah, yeah, but also alsobecause of that story whereby

(01:14:30):
you know uh girl had to pay forme, and I had never seen her,
you know, I think 2019 after 25years that I had to go and meet
her physically, which was an anemotional uh moment, you know.
Yeah, tell me about that.
Yeah, it was really, I mean, uhwe're all in tears, and uh, you

(01:14:53):
know, you can imagine, you know,what$300 uh every year did, you
know, to make sure that you knowI go back to school, you know,
she paid for me at theuniversity, you know, you know,
and so that story um has madeimpact in society because most

(01:15:16):
of my clients they read my storyand they say we want to help
another child somewhere.
So we have very many childrenwho have been sponsored because
of the legacy that girl started,you know.
Yeah, you know, and I think tellme tell me how tell me about how
you met her, where you met her,like how did you end up meeting

(01:15:37):
her?
No, no, no.
You you remember I told you thatI met her son who who had come
to on holiday and so so 25 yearslater is when I had to now uh go
with my wife so that we go andmeet her physically.
You know, yeah, that's what Iwanted to hear.
Is how did you where did youmeet her?

(01:15:58):
Freuda, Crystal River, you know.
Okay, yeah.
So we uh we went, she she camewith her husband, they picked us
at the airport.
I gave a very big hug to her.
I have uh I'll send you thatpicture when she was holding
each other, and you know, we'reall in tears, you know.

(01:16:18):
Yeah, yeah.
But for me, seeing her like uhuh like physically was the
biggest achievement, you know.
Yeah, yeah, that's pretty good.
And so uh right now, uh justrecently I I started a community
project, uh more in yourhonoring her to his uh twenty

(01:16:40):
community project Uganda, and itis majorly for uh supporting
schools, it's um uh supporting aschool where I studied from, and
later I'll support otherschools, sponsoring children uh
who are in a very bad shape thatI was in during that time, who
are in similar situations,supporting um uh women who do

(01:17:06):
not have like single women, uhsupporting orphans who are, you
know, the children who arethere, they are having hopes,
but they have no access toopportunities.
You know, tell me tell me thename of the project again.
I want to make sure that ourlisteners hear it correctly.
It is called Twende ProjectUganda.

(01:17:27):
Twende community project.
Twend.
Twende.
Twende means let's go.
Twende is like a sway.
Ah twend yeah, twende, twendeproject, Uganda Project.
You know, Felix, do me do me afavor, do me a favor later and
send that to me.
I'll put that into the shownotes or less can go there and

(01:17:48):
get that as well.
So all right, that's very cool.
I'll do that.
And uh you can imagine it's justa story.
Um, you know, uh some of myclients have told me that, you
know, uh this money that girlsacrificed to get an extra job
to pay for you is just onedinner in a nice restaurant in
the US.
Yeah, you know, yeah, and shesacrificed, she had uh all the

(01:18:12):
energy and said, Let me helpthis guy.
Because, you know, but you know,you look at the journey and
you're like, you know, thesemiracles, you know, like uh the
way everything was happening,and and you see now we have a
very successful uh safaricompany in Uganda.
We you know, you know, we havetouched many people's lives, you

(01:18:33):
know.
So we see how you touch one andthen the whole line, you know,
like is uh, you know, yeah.
But I what I you know, and whatI love about your story is
there's there's a coupleelements.
One is the people, just thepeople that you were fortunate
enough to connect with,obviously is a huge part of it.
Yeah, but then there's there'sthe other side of it because

(01:18:56):
here's the thing every personthat you've mentioned that that
helped you move forward, yeah,those same people have met a lot
of other people that did nottake advantage of those
opportunities and did not followthrough.
So my point is you've gotmeeting the right people, but
also your ability maybe to seizethe opportunity, yeah.

(01:19:20):
Maybe even to ask for it in asense.
Maybe you didn't say straightout, hey, will you give me
money?
But you shared your story andyou made it clear and they saw
something in you that maybe theydidn't see in other people.
So it's it's a combination of umyou supporting yourself in a

(01:19:41):
sense, but them supporting you,them seeing all that.
Is there anything else that youthink you would like if I asked
you what Felix, you've been itsounds like your life has been
so easy, and I know it's not,but you just seem like you're
very lucky.
You just keep these things keephappening for you.
But if I asked you what's thesecret to your success, what

(01:20:04):
would you say?
Yeah, then first of all, um I'ma very honest guy.
Okay, that's good.
That helps, you know.
Um, and um I came up from asociety like where my mother
told me that you know, always beon the right side, you know.

(01:20:25):
Let people judge you, but foryou, you know who you are.
You know, okay.
And I have been, I think uh, ofcourse, many people have taken
advantage of me because I'm agood person.
I worked very hard to to giveeverything to other people
before I think about myself.
You know, and um uh because Istarted something, the business

(01:20:48):
I love, you know, I'm doingsomething that I love, and we
agreed with Vincent that youknow, let's not look at money,
let's create a difference, let'shave very special experiences,
and these experiences are gonnachange lives, they're gonna back
come back to you, and laterwe'll have capacity to be happy,
you know.
And here we are, yeah.

(01:21:10):
20 years later, 20 years later,and um and and you know, uh, I
told you about Romeo, RomeoKruger.
Uh he was our first uhto-operator outside Uganda to
trust us with his clients.
There was no way we couldappreciate him.
We say it later, we are going toput you also in the company.

(01:21:32):
We appreciate you for havingtrusted us.
So, like I mentioned earlier, weare not looking at money, but
you are building networks, youknow.
Yes, and we believe thattogether we work harder, we we
achieve together, and we make animpact in the community.
And we I can tell you that youknow all this is uh is on the

(01:21:55):
ground, we are very happy thateverything is going very well.
What's uh what do you haveplanned for the next 20 years?
Yeah, so we after we started theum before we used to have um
before we used to have the thecombination of B2C, B2B, and
whatever.
But when we were hit byCOVID-19, we realized that you

(01:22:18):
know the trend has changed, hasshifted.
So that's when we set up thefive-year plan.
Uh there was a strategy of umB2B, whereby we represent
companies, and we have nowcovered uh three years and it's
going very well representingcompanies.
Uh so far, we're the bestdestination management company

(01:22:39):
in Uganda, and because we areflexible, we understand the
business, how it works, how tohelp our agents to be
competitive in their markets, ithas become easy that some even
others to connect with us and wework with them.
So, we what you want to do isthat um after the five-year
strategy, we want to carry thesame strategy.

(01:23:02):
We take it to either to Kenya orTanzania.
We start one of the countrieswill start partner with the
local person, use the samestrategy, aiming at make sure
that the agents we are workingwith will represent them 100% in
East Africa, while working withlocal people who are born in
that country.

(01:23:24):
And we hope uh the next 20 yearswe'll have achieved uh that in
all the East African countries.
Nice, I love that.
Do you have do you have somebodyuh well let's uh we talked a lot
about your childhood, what itwas like growing up.
Um tell me about well, I I don'tknow the answer to this

(01:23:45):
question, so I'm just gonna ask.
Well, you said did you say youand your wife went to Florida?
So there's a family there.
So tell us, so tell me a littlebit about your you finally got
married and you didn't live in amu in a hut.
You didn't build a hut, itsounds like so.
Tell me story about you know,tell me what's going on in your
family with your wife.
Do you have kids?
Is uh are they interested in thework you do?

(01:24:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
They uh I married actually, yousee, they after um after school,
I did not want to waste time.
So I thought it was easier thatto have a family.
So married.
I never planned, I never wentfor courtship, I never did
anything.
Just okay, I need to have awoman.

(01:24:29):
So I just met a random woman andwe you know I hope she's not
listening to this.
No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
What I'm saying, like quitehappening, like a random woman,
okay.
No, no, no.
So we we we got married, but forsure, we never had like a
connection, we didn't havethings like the process of

(01:24:50):
really choosing a partner, Ithink, is supposed to be really
take time, uh, study each otherand whatever.
So my first marriage was notsuccessful, so I had to put it
aside until uh I later met um ayoung lady, Maria, who she was
young but very intelligent.

(01:25:11):
And uh she found me when I wasin a very complicated situation,
you know.
Um, you know, I think I can sumit up that I was disorganized,
you know, like you you haveopportunities around you, but
you are working, you know, youare not organized and whatever.

(01:25:31):
And so she she opened most ofthe things to me, like, you
know, you have you're a veryintelligent guy, you have this
this uh uh you have this talent,you have this, you know, like
revealing, trying to expose whatyou are, you know.
You know, you can be having uh apersonality that you don't know,

(01:25:54):
you know.
So me, I was just going to work,going back home, and that's it.
But the connection was panfantastic that we connected
well, and you know, uh threechildren with her, and uh we we
are really doing very well.
Uh she's now working in thecompany.

(01:26:16):
Uh cool.
All right.
She's uh a tour consultant, sheworks, uh represents many
agents, uh, tour operators, youknow, works on them, and yeah.
So very cool.
Yeah, so I'm uh a very happy uhuh man.
I'm taken care of like anAfrican man, you know.

(01:26:38):
I love it.
I hate you in the kitchen, youknow.
Uh-huh.
Well, and and she works as atour consultant for the company.
So that uh force her to do, butshe takes good care of me, you
know.
She Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Do you guys do you guys talkabout business at home or are

(01:27:00):
you able to you do?
Okay, yeah, all right.
Because some people are like,well, if you work with your
partner, then you should nottalk about business at home.
I was just curious.
But I think tourism, I don'tknow, tourism can be stressful.
Yeah, yeah, I sure needactually.
What is funny is that um ouroffice is in the same compound

(01:27:21):
with our house.
Okay, all right.
So yeah, that's we leave thehouse, we go to office where the
other workers come and join us,and together then we go back
home, which is a few meters,just a few steps, and of course,
you have to be to understand thesituation, otherwise it can be

(01:27:41):
boring.
But you know, you go through itsometimes, take a holiday, you
go somewhere, and you know, anduh yeah.
Yeah, how old are how old areyour kids?
My first child is 23 years.
Oh wow, okay.
Yeah, he's um he's an artist, hedoes the the drawing with a

(01:28:01):
pencil, like uh he can um he canuh uh like draw you within a
short time and then frame yourthe drawing.
Oh cool.
Yeah, so he's now he's now doinga course in the uh animation and
visual effects.
Oh, okay.
That's cool.
Was was he ever when growing up,was he because if he's 23, your

(01:28:24):
business is 20 years old.
Yeah um has he did he getinvolved in the business at all?
Was that something he wasinterested in, or he just had no
desire to do what you're doing?
He's a he's actually he startedhis coffee company, he's into
coffee.
Uh started uh a coffee company,and then uh so I have my other

(01:28:45):
the the the second one is adaughter who is um 20 years, the
other one is 18 you know.
But I have a son uh called Kevinwho is a footballer, he he plays
soccer.
He's uh you said his name wait,you said his name is Kevin.
Kevin, yeah.
Is there a is there a connectionto another?
I connected it, it was more ofuh appreciating Kevin having

(01:29:08):
connected me to the mother.
Yeah, I I got that.
I recognize you have two Kevinsin real life.
Yeah, so I named him in a waybecause what can I give Kevin?
Yeah, well, that's a huge, hugetribute.
So yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it's a very huge tribute.
And uh so Kevin is uh a soccerplayer, he's making 13 years.

(01:29:30):
Yeah, he's doing very well, he'suh he's very good, and I think
um he'll end up in uh Europe orin America, he'll really know
what play for professionalsoccer.
Wow, and is he he's youryoungest?
No, no, no.
The youngest is six years, he'sborn.
Oh, okay.
Oh, okay.
So my youngest is six years old.

(01:29:51):
Okay, so Kevin is the18-year-old.
We gotta get all this I totallylost.
No, Kevin is 12 years.
Okay.
I'm counting.
How many kids do you have?
So I have seven children.
I have seven children.
Oh, okay.
I gotcha.
I heard three, but I understandthree with Maria or something

(01:30:12):
like that.
Okay, so I have seven childrenin total, and uh yeah.
All right, do any of are any ofthem excited about tourism?
That's the question I'm tryingto get to.
I am we have to find out becauseuh one of the of the girls is um
she likes IT-related things andshe likes uh like uh cosmetics

(01:30:33):
things.
Then the other girl uh justcompleted the course in a cabin
crew, you know.
She wants cabin, she wants towork in uh as a hair hair
hostess.
Oh yeah, okay.
All right, well that yeah, thereis a travel connection.
Yeah, Kevin is in soccer, hewants to be a businessman, uh,
he hasn't picked interest.

(01:30:54):
Then uh uh the the daughter,another daughter is she wants to
be a doctor, you know.
So maybe at some stage I'll getone who is interested.
Right.
Okay.
Would you would you like one ormore of them to be interested?
Because sometimes people arelike, I don't want my kids doing

(01:31:15):
what I do, I want them to go dotheir own thing, and other
people are like, I want my kidsto be involved and carry on the
company.
Do you have what is yourphilosophy?
No, the philosophy or your yourapproach?
The philosophy is that I wantthe children to independently,
you know, think what they wantto do and uh open the door if
they feel they are interested intourism, that I can mentor them

(01:31:38):
into being entrepreneurs intourism.
And uh yeah, so it is alwaysgood when people are not forced
to say, okay, you must come andwork with me, you know?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I I I agree with you completely.
I get that.
Um, one thing I know I want totouch on, and then I'll ask you
what else we should cover.
But um, we talked a little bitabout your community project.

(01:32:00):
Yeah, yeah.
Um, and helping other other kidsthat are in, you know, young
kids that are in similarsituations to what you were when
you were younger to make surethat they have an opportunity to
go to school.
Yeah.
Um, we're gonna have a link inthe show notes so people can
learn more about that.
But just in general, what do youwant people in the US or Europe

(01:32:21):
or other parts of Africa,anybody listening to this, what
do you how would you describethe process?
Like, what would you say?
Hey, you can help a kid go toschool with by doing this.
How easy is it?
What is involved?
What should people know aboutwhat it what it would take to
help?
Yeah, so far what we're doing isthat um we always take kids who

(01:32:44):
have completed primary schooland they are going to to
secondary school because most ofthem end up going getting
married or whatever, and uh andum so we we say let's look for
those children who havecompleted the primary seven and
have performed well, or even ifthey didn't perform well, but

(01:33:06):
they are from very complicatedfamilies, right?
So we have partnership with afew schools where the children
go, and after the secondaryschool, we always opt to take
them to to do the uh technicaleducation so that they learn a

(01:33:27):
skill, you know, that thisschool this skill can help them
to be self-employed or they canchange a life or whatever, and
then uh what because it is notgood to now take the children to
to school, then they go touniversity, they are doing an
art course where they cannothave a skill, you know, right?

(01:33:48):
Yes, so we try to help them,then we help them to create jobs
for themselves, or they can usetheir hand to earn a living.
Somebody listening to this wantsme to ask, is this boys and
girls?
Both.
Yes, I just want to uh so we wehave a list, then people
normally choose.

(01:34:09):
Uh you know, we do not uh whenpeople say I want a child to be
sponsored, then we we askcommunity members where they
have leadership, uh theyrecommend a child who should be
uh sponsored.
Because we can put uh names ofthe children on the website or
whatever, but I don't think it'sa good idea.

(01:34:29):
It's better.
Yeah, it is better that you knowthere is a person who is willing
to change the life of a child.
Most of them will say, Oh, Iwant to say to I want to help a
girl, another one will say, Iwant to help a boy, you know,
and then uh send them like twonames, then they select because
always have a story on eachchild, and then they and um uh

(01:34:51):
we are now we we we got asponsorship from um uh a group
of women in Germany.
Uh they have sponsored uh aproject of uh menstrual health,
like to help young girls learn amenstruation, uh teach them how
to make the the reusable pads,you know.

(01:35:11):
So it is going to uh next week.
Uh we already got the the funds,one thousand seven hundred
dollars, you know, to it isgoing to train two hundred and
fifty girls.
No, one thousand seven hundreddollars to train two hundred and
fifty girls.
Yes, and they are going each ofthem is gonna have um uh is

(01:35:33):
gonna learn how to make areusable pad because they have
materials and this the so theythey learn how to make a
reusable pad so that they areconfident because most girls get
um they drop out of schoolbecause they have no pad.
They have to wrap themselveswith uh some furnace cloth or

(01:35:53):
something.
So we are trying to buildconfidence, especially in the
girls, so that the they they arecomfortable in the class, they
are used, they have a reusablepad, they can use it, uh they
wash it.
So we want to make sure thatthey have at least two, two
pads.
Okay, yeah.
It's it's a it's a topic that alot of people outside uh well in

(01:36:17):
different in some places aren'taware of.
They don't realize that's anissue.
And I remember when I wasvisiting Africa at one point, I
was in um, it's probably Zambia,and they and that topic came up
there as well.
Yeah, and they explained howthese young girls, you know,
they get to 12, 13 years old,they either just quit going to
school completely, yeah, or theythey miss a whole week of school

(01:36:38):
every month because of theseissues.
And it's it's hard.
I think it's hard for somepeople to get their head around
well, why do they need to learnhow to make pads?
Why can't we just make sure theyhave pads?
Like it seems easier to justmake so help me understand that.
So you see, uh, the normal pads,uh, they are very expensive,

(01:37:01):
first of all.
And you just use them once andthrow away.
Right?
So we are looking and they'reexpensive, yeah.
We are looking at thesustainability.
Where they are now materialsthat you can use, you we teach
them how to make the padsthemselves, and then they have
they can use them over and over.

(01:37:22):
After they have used them, theycan wash them.
Because because if you say to afamily, okay, here's a hundred
pads, and then when you run out,you're gonna need to go find
more, it's expensive.
So it gets to the point whereit's like, well, they're they
are for they're they'restruggling to afford a meal, and
then you're talking about That'swhat I'm saying.

(01:37:43):
You know, yeah, that's what I'msaying.
You know, that's what I'msaying.
When you have to decide between,okay, are we gonna make sure our
daughter has or our fivedaughters have pads to go to
school, or are we gonna feed thefamily?
The choice is gonna be, you knowwhat, maybe they just need to
stay home because uh we need tofeed them.
There's more than that.

(01:38:03):
They cannot afford, they cannotafford to to to buy parts, even
the mothers cannot afford.
Yeah, many mothers, many mothersin the in the villages do not
cannot afford.
They don't.
Yeah, that's so the idea is thatum we want to start with the
children, but after we want toextend, if we get other fans, is

(01:38:24):
to extend to to the mothers.
You know, sure, yeah.
You know, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we want to train uh themothers, and um you know, when a
woman is confident, you know,everything is perfect.

(01:38:45):
Yes, uh, we already have betterfor everybody.
Yes, we already have the theconcept, uh uh what they what
will be done.
First of all, it is not abouthaving a part, but also teaching
teaching them about the thewhole process, how should they
be clean and what they shoulddo, and things like that.
They teach them aboutpregnancies, and uh, you know,

(01:39:07):
it is a complete uh story.
So they'll be there for fourdays, and uh it's gonna make a
very big.
Yeah, I love that.
I love that.
Yeah, you're doing some you'redoing some really cool things.
I knew you were before wechatted, and after this
conversation, it's like I I wasable to connect all the dots to
kind of why you're doing thisstuff.

(01:39:27):
Um, your your why is really big,and I I really, really enjoy
that.
Um, Felix, we discussed a bunchof things.
Um, I'm curious, what did Iforget to ask you, or what do
you wish I would have asked youso you can share with our
audience before we wrap up?
First of all, uh, you know, um Ithink we've covered most of the
things.
Uh but um going back to thebusiness side, you know, uh

(01:39:53):
currently like uh I have not gotan opportunity to connect with
American edge uh two operatorswho sell trips in Africa.
Okay, who sell trips to Africaand um so I would uh I think it
would be uh how I can connect toto that uh portfolio of American

(01:40:16):
uh two operators, but also uminviting whoever is listening
that you know Uganda is a verybeautiful country, it is the
power of Africa.
Uh uh we have the uh more thanhalf of the total population of
the gorillas.

(01:40:36):
We have the biggest populationof the mountain gorillas, we
have the chimpanzees, we know wehave the big five.
Uh we have the source of theriver Nile.
If you've heard of the riverNile, I think uh you know, very
interesting uh uh locations.
It is the best place where youcan go with your children, it's
the best place uh where you cancome.

(01:40:57):
Uh you spend two two weeks, youdo uh the hikes, you do safari,
you you know, you seeeverything.
And so I think it would be niceeven to invite you to come to
Uganda.
You know, I would love that,yeah.
You know, so that you know youtell you see what I'm telling
you, you see it on the ground,and then you can go back and

(01:41:19):
extend the story back home.
Yes, yeah, very, very cool.
I know we've got peoplelistening to this right now that
if Uganda's been on their radar,but maybe they haven't, whether
it's somebody wanting to gotravel to visit there or a tour
operator that that sees anopportunity in their offerings,
and that's that's why we dothis.
We do this to have conversationswith folks like yourself, so

(01:41:41):
yeah, so we can makeconnections.
So we can make you know, becausewe've talked a lot about
connections and the importanceof that.
So very, very, very cool.
Felix, thank you so much.
Yeah, you're welcome.
And uh I'm very happy that youyou hosted me because um I have
to congratulate you also to sayto have the courage of uh

(01:42:02):
telling stories, sharing theexperiences to to your
followers.
I think it's something very badvery nice.
I think you're changing livesand you don't know.
Thank you.
I hope so.
Yeah, because uh because I'mI've just shared my story how my
life changed, and I know thatvery many people are going to
listen to this story and theysay we want to change a life

(01:42:24):
somewhere.
Yeah.
So uh I on either side, Felix,because they can hear your
story, and if they'restruggling, if they're trying to
figure out their situation,they'll find inspiration from
it.
And if they're on the other sidewhere they want to support
somebody or and they're able tosupport somebody else to make it

(01:42:45):
through that time, it's great.
We've hit kind of both sides ofthat, and that's that's why
these conversations are sospecial.
So thank you.
Yeah, and um maybe the therequest is if you can reach out
to to Girl and uh give myappreciation to her, you know,
because I have said thank youvery much many times.

(01:43:06):
I have said what can I give you,you know.
So reaching out to her and say,I met your son, I had him on the
podcast, and he talked aboutyou, and he told how you changed
his life and how you uh yoursupport has changed his
community.
I think it will um be somethingvery instrumental, the biggest

(01:43:28):
gift I can ever give her.
Which I think, yeah, as wecelebrate 20 years of casinga to
us, that you say this is yourgift.
You know?
Very cool.
Wow, what a what a I'm not sure.
I've had somebody tribute apotty a podcast episode before,
so that's awesome.
I will I will do that, folks.
When we're done, you send me hercontact details, you connect me

(01:43:49):
with her, and I'll reach out andI will make sure that she um
sees this conversation.
I'm sure I sh I'm sure you willas well.
But um it's uh it's great.
It's it's we're we're changinglives, and thank you for coming
on and sharing your story abouthow Gail helped you change your
life and you're inspiringpeople.
Good job, man.
Good job.
Thank you.
Thank you.

(01:44:09):
All right, let's uh let's stayin touch and do this again.
Yeah, and probably a host youhere soon in Uganda.
I man, I hope so.
It's the more I've learned aboutUganda, the more intrigued I am
by it.
And it's um yeah, absolutely.
So when I'm when I swing by thatneck of the woods, I'll
definitely definitely.
So if you get if you haveconnections to if you know some

(01:44:34):
two operators in America uh oryour other connections.
Well hopefully they'relistening.
Who would yeah, hopefully wouldlike to connect to to get a
reliable agency because like Itold you with my connection in
Europe and uh and Uganda, we wewe are the the best, and we have

(01:44:55):
uh we've really been there.
20 years is not easy.
Yeah, it's not easy at all.
That's uh those connections,yeah.
Well, and that's that's whatanother part of the show is you
know, it's big world made small.
It's to create connections tomake this big world feel smaller
by creating those connections.
Yeah, and um, and I guess youknow, while we're at it, might

(01:45:16):
as well mention that somethingnew that we've done recently
over on uh bigworldmadesmall.com is set up uh kind of
an AI-assisted uh network andcommunity of folks like like
Felix and and and others fromaround the world, including
agents and operators in the US.
So exactly what you'rediscussing.
Um and that whole goal was tocreate better connections

(01:45:39):
between all the folks that we'vehad on the show.
So um, Felix, I'm gonna suggestyou do it and anybody that's
listening to go over, you canlook up Felix on there.
Um just look up Uganda, he'sgonna pop up, and uh you can you
know watch this conversation,obviously, or uh, you know,
connect with him right therethrough the website.
So Felix, thank you so much.
Appreciate it.
And of course, Felix's Felix'swebsite will be right in the

(01:46:00):
show notes as well.
That's the most important part.
So Felix, thank you so much.
Uh I look forward to seeing youagain soon.
All right.
Have a great day.
All right, bye bye.
He did leave.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Adventure Travel with Felex Musinguzi - Kazinga Tours Uganda