Adventure Travel with Rolando Campos - Chayote Lodge – Costa Rica - Adventure Travel Podcast - Big World Made Small

Episode Transcript
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SPEAKER_00 (01:05):
Welcome back everybody to another episode of
the Big World Made Small Podcastfor the Adventure Traveler.
So happy to have each and everyone of you back today, and also
very excited to have our guest.
Today we've got Rolando Campos.
He's the founder of ChaioteLodge in Costa Rica.
Rolando, welcome to the show.
Thank you, Jason.
Happy for to be here and thankyou for having me.

(01:26):
Well, it's it's true pleasure.
We spoke a couple weeks ago, andI was just kind of impressed by
what you're doing.
You know, there's a lot oflodges around the world, but
they don't all do things thesame way.
And I spent some time chattingwith you and looking at some
photos of the beautiful placeyou've gotten.
I thought, yeah, this soundslike a great fit for the
adventurous type of traveler.
So perfect opportunity.

(01:48):
We're gonna dig so deep intoyour background, figure out how
you got from where you were towhere you are now.
But before we do that, let'sgive our listeners kind of an
idea.
What is Chaote Lodge?
First of all, am I saying itright?
Yes, you are.
It sounds so much better whenyou say it, the accent.
Anyway, let's give our listenerskind of an idea of what you're
doing there.

(02:08):
Not necessarily how you startedthe business.
We're gonna get into that.
But what do you guys offer yourguests there at Chayote Lodge?

SPEAKER_02 (02:15):
Well, Chayote Lodge is a small project, it's only 12
rooms.
I tried to build a boutiqueproperty, uh, an alternative to
the very well-known Costa Ricandestinations.
As you may imagine, Costa Ricais.
I wanna say that populardestination for an inspirational
type of traveler.

(02:35):
People want to see Costa Rica,and that has taken the country
to grow importantly intodifferent segments.
I've been in the travel businessfor over 30 years, so I said,
well, I think I want to dosomething that is more out of
the ordinary, moreoff-the-bidden path, while
keeping the highlights that makepeople choose in Costa Rica.

(02:56):
And that's how everything wasplanted, and that's what I have
now.
I have a 12-room boutiqueproperty overlooking four
volcanoes, surrounded by cloudforests and coffee plantations,
with a with the greatestlocations, just one hour from
the international airport, fromthe main international airport,
and on the way to the ArenalVolcano, which is like the most
popular destination in thecountry, but totally off the

(03:19):
beaten path.
We are the only lodge or theonly hotel in the region in this
area of the country, andeverything else is still very
rural.
So, all kinds of agriculturalproduce going on.
You have the coffee, you havecabbage, potatoes, dairy farms,
and so on.
So it's still a very authenticsite of Costa Rica where now

(03:40):
clients or visitors can enjoythat pura vida feeling and
always being close to the mainattractions they want to travel.

SPEAKER_00 (03:50):
And uh before I ask anything else, pura vida, I
think I know exactly what thatmeans, but let's share with our
listeners because I've heardthat a bit about Costa Rica, so
tell us a little bit more aboutthat phrase and what it means.

SPEAKER_02 (04:01):
Yeah, well, pura vida is it's pura vida, you
know.
We we say pura vida foreverything.
We can have a you can have afull conversation with just the
words pura vida.
I can start asking pura vida,and you will go, pura vida,
okay, pura vida, pura vida.
That was hi, how are you findingyou?
Okay, I'm ready to go bye, havea good day.
And it was four, four differentpura vidas with different kinds

(04:25):
of accent or pronunciation thatwill let you understand that
that was a full conversation.
So at the end of the or at thebottom of the sense, it's a way
of life.
I think we Costa Rican has beenwe have been blessed by the
nature we're surrounded by, bythe history of our country, by

(04:47):
the kind of social developmentthat has allowed people to grow
a more pura vida lifestyle.
And you truly see it.
It's not a slogan, it's not a atourist motto, but it's a true
way of life.
So translate is part of our ADN,right?

SPEAKER_00 (05:07):
I I get that.
And traveling, having spent afair amount of time traveling
around Latin America, there areyou know different places have
their different phrases, butthat one's special and it's
translated, it's Pura isP-U-R-A, right?
Yes.
So, like the pure life, is thatkind of the literal translation?
Pure life.

SPEAKER_02 (05:25):
Literally, it would translate as pure life.

SPEAKER_00 (05:28):
Okay, all right, very, very cool.
Thank you for sharing that.
I just I learned something, sothank you.
And you mentioned some one thinginteresting.
You said there aren't any otherlodges or hotels around, but
you've got all this greatnature, scenery, culture right
around the lodge.
I guess honestly, the questionthat popped into my head is why
are there not more lodgesaround?

(05:50):
I'm sure you've given that thatsome thought.
Are there are there challengesto operating in that area that
keep the other operators out?
Or what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 (05:58):
Well, that that's a very a very good question,
Jason.
And I think it has to do withthe opportunities.
You know, investing in acompletely new area of the
Bidden Path, it always takestime, it takes longer than it
would have taken in other partsof the country or a already
developed destination like CostaRica.
And if you have the resources toinvest, probably you will go and

(06:21):
look for areas that are alreadyon demand.
But for me, it was a personalthing.
I, as I mentioned before, I comefrom a larger background in the
travel business, and I'm fromhere.
So my mother was the schoolteacher of this very small town
with about 300 people in thiscommunity only.
And my father's family is alsofrom this small village.

(06:43):
So and I thought it wasbeautiful.
And the more I traveled theworld, I said I'm such a lucky
guy to live where I do.
And somehow it's you know thatfeeling inside where you want to
share what you have witheveryone.
And it was on my wish list ofall times.
Someday I wanna build a littlelodge, I think it's beautiful, I

(07:06):
think as it's in the middle ofthe country, it's a good
connecting point with the restof the country, and so on.
So it was more of a personalthing than an investing
planning, you know.
Probably if if I had planned itfrom the investor's point of
view, I would probably have goneto a more popular part of the
country.
It's it's here, it's been hard,of course, and I'm sure this

(07:28):
applies to anywhere in the worldwhere you want to go and change
things and do thingsdifferently, and it takes time.
And but I think it's veryrewarding because when people
come and and they see the placeand and the feeling around, the
peacefulness around.
There is this sense of silencewhere I'm sitting right here in
the in the outside therestaurant, and it's just the

(07:49):
birds singing around and thevolcanoes in front of me.
And you have this beautifulpeacefulness, you know,
atmosphere.
And and I think it's worth it.
I think it pays off, even thoughit's slow, the efforts of doing
something new.
And I hope also that it will bean inspiration to other
entrepreneurs to also starttheir own business in the travel

(08:12):
uh community with more lodges orrestaurants or you know, and
different kinds of attractionsthat can be around.
But definitely it's a place togrow, and I'm sure it will
happen.

SPEAKER_00 (08:22):
I I love that because I've been around a few
days and I've had a lot ofconversations.
And I agree, there's definitely,you know, if you get a group of
investors together and say,okay, we want to open a lodge, a
restaurant, some sort ofoperation, and they're just
looking at it from the financialstandpoint.
It's like, oh, well, there's 10lodges over in this area, so

(08:44):
they've got a goodinfrastructure.
It's there's a lot of peoplealready going there, there's
cooperative marketing for thearea, whatever.
So we should just put it there.
But then you get someone likeyourself that has a a different
vision that's connected with anarea that they know is beautiful
and they know is a good place togo, and they'll and they'll take
that risk and put it out there.

(09:06):
And that's always inspiring.
And I think that's the one thatlike when the people find it and
they go to your place, they'relike, oh wow, I had no idea this
existed.
Right.
You know, because because maybethey've been to Costa Rica
before, maybe they went andstayed in one of those or other
places, and then they come toyour place, they're like, Oh,
wow, this is totally different.
All right, do you experiencethat with your guests?

(09:26):
I'm sure you do.

SPEAKER_02 (09:27):
Yes, I experienced, I experience exactly what you're
saying, and and even with thelocal market.
I I get um few Costa Ricans onthe weekends, and especially on
the weekends, and they're like,Wow, I didn't know this existed,
or but this is so close from myhouse, it's only 10-15 minutes
away, and I have no idea thiswas here the way it is.
And it's very sad there is a bigsatisfaction.

(09:49):
Oh yeah.
Last year I I I I I have aclient in in the UK, and she
came with a tour operator at thebeginning of the year last year,
and then she came back aroundOctober, November, and she has
ready book for this year again.
And I'm like, wow, that's threetimes a guest from the UK coming
to Costa Rica, that's first bigright there.

(10:12):
Uh huh.
People don't travel so often tothe same destination, especially
long haul.
And the three times they'vestayed at my place.
The first time they stayed onlyone night, which was the night
before they flew back home, andthe second time they stayed
three nights at the beginning ortwo nights at the beginning, and
one night at the end of thetrip.
And this next visit will bethree times straight at the

(10:35):
lodge.
And I'm like, yeah, I think Ithink the when I see that that
kind of of cases, I feel like,yeah.
You're doing something right.
Yeah, I'm doing something right.
My mission, my the vision of ofmy company is to provide a place
where you will feel at peace andenjoy the surroundings and and

(10:57):
be a better person.
And when you walk out of thelodge, you will be a happier
human being than when you walkedin.
And I have to say that over 90%of the cases we achieve that.
I have a wonderful team, I havereally truly the best team I
could dream of.
And again, everyone is from thecommunity, everyone lives close

(11:19):
by with an area that I like toremark this is totally new, it's
off the beating path.
And so this team feels like wow,this is a different kind of job
that we all get in this town.
And there, and we're not used toworking in tourism here.
And the I think it has to doalso with the attitude.

(11:42):
The attitude that you can seefrom the staff is different than
that attitude you see in otherparts in Costa Rica or outside
of Costa Rica that are alreadypopular in tourism.
You know, it's like yeah, here,and I say, you know what?
We we are good in service, andthe kind of service that I want

(12:02):
to provide is the home service,the homing service.
It's like when you have a housewith your family and you have
visitors coming to stay withyou, and you know they will stay
two or three nights with you,and they are your friends, your
lifetime friends.
And what do you do?
How do you treat them?
Where do you take them out?

(12:23):
What do you show them in yourtown?
Well, that's the way I structurethe service at Chayote Lodge.
I tell my team they're coming tosee us because they love us and
we love them, and we're gonnatreat them like personal
friends.
So the type of service that weprovide is on that level.

(12:43):
You know, it's not thestructured, beautiful,
five-star, well-written scriptsof how to greet a client, how to
answer the phone, how to serve,how you know, how to say
goodbye, and that's fine, itworks for that for that kind of
places.
But here I said this has to be apura vida experience that

(13:04):
whoever comes here, they willfeel they're just happened to
arrive to a friend's house andbe treated as a friend.
And so far, I think it's worked.

SPEAKER_00 (13:15):
I I agree completely.
And I also recognize it's notfor everybody.
There's other business modelsthat that kind of work for the
people that are doing them, butI I see your passion for, you
know, a lot of our listeners arejust listening to this, you
know, it's an audio podcast, andthey can't see the look on your
face.
I wish they could, because itit's pura vida, right?
It just the look, everything.

(13:37):
But I also, you know, I think ofmaybe a community where you've
got, I kind of mentionedearlier, like a community where
you've got 10 lodges, guesthouses, hotels, or whatever,
maybe a more built-up area.
It typically doesn't feel thatway.
Not that a lodge in those areascan't really make an effort to
try and treat people likefriends and family or uh, you

(13:57):
know, welcome visitors, but itjust feels different.
As someone that's done an awfullot of traveling around, when
you go to a place, well,honestly, when I travel, I kind
of like to be away from thebeaten path.
I don't necessarily want to bewhere all the other, I don't
know, tourists or travelers are.
I really appreciate theopportunity to connect with

(14:19):
locals.
Maybe, maybe this sounds weird,but so if I go to a small town
where very few people visit, I'mjust welcome differently.
It's just like, you know, like,wow, what are you doing here?
You know, because I lookdifferent, I definitely sound
different.
And what are you doing here?
And they're just so much moregracious and just so much more
likely to want to show me aroundbecause they're not, I guess the

(14:42):
term is not tired of the umvisitors.
Except you know, it's it's likea new exciting thing, even
though the law just been arounda while and we're gonna get into
that.
I can appreciate that the localcommunity might be a little bit
more welcoming and want to wantto share stuff.
I I'm not sure I'm goinganywhere with this, Rolando, but
I also I want to ask, I suspectthat for you as a business, and

(15:07):
this is not a business podcast,but for you as a business
operator, you can find reallywelcoming, lovely people to come
join your team.
And I suspect they stick aroundlonger.
They're probably have a betterexperience than maybe some of
the staff members that arestaying in a larger or more
touristy area, where you know,they work one year at this lodge

(15:29):
and then they move over to theother lodge, and then, you know,
there's always, you know, newexciting opportunities to go to
different lodges where I suspectyour team feels more like a
family, and it's just like yousaid, it's a great place to
work, probably, for most ofthem.

SPEAKER_02 (15:45):
Yeah, totally, especially because of the size
of the community and the jobopportunities around, but it's
not the way how I want topresent it to them.
But I said, you know, we allhave to be happy.
We work with people.
We're not we're not buildingcars, we're not, you know,
making clothing in a factory.
No, we're working with people,and every person who comes here,

(16:10):
every person who travels, theyhave a dream.
They are first, we have tounderstand that they are
hard-working people, they workto save, to travel.
They have the most limited thingthey could afford, which is
time.
They have only X numbers of daysper year to travel and discover

(16:33):
whatever they want.
So they are trusting us with themost viable asset they have,
which is time.
They don't have a second time.
It's only one day at a time whenMay 27 is gone, it's gone.
It's gone forever.
There will never be a second May27, 26.

(16:56):
It's only one day with thatdate.
And they decided to spend it atmy lodge.
So we have to make sure that wegive them what they deserve,
what they expect, and go abovethat because there will not be a
second opportunity.
And we in the way how weappreciate their confidence,
their trust, is by delivering agood quality service, a good

(17:21):
value for their money, a goodexperience, and that's where we
work every single day.

SPEAKER_00 (17:28):
You know, I hear what you're saying loud and
clear, and I agree with you ahundred percent.
It's for most of the guests thatare gonna visit you, or for a
lot of the travelers, it is thatit's that time thing.
And I'm curious, I'm just gonnaask you, do you sometimes do you
think it's difficult to conveythat to staff or people that are

(17:49):
working in your community thatmaybe perceive travelers as oh,
they've got a lot of money, theycan go wherever they want.
So it it I can see where it'd belike, oh, they've got money,
they can go anywhere, they cango on vacation all the time
because they've got all thismoney.
So I guess the question is, isit challenging for you?

(18:11):
Do you feel like you really haveto remind them about the time
thing?
Because it might not besomething that's obvious.

SPEAKER_02 (18:17):
Yeah, it's you have to remind it.
And I think this this this isgood for everyone.
And you have you have to remindit and you have to create new
ways to remind it.
Because otherwise it it growsold.
So I I tell them, you know,we're all customers.
At some point of the day, we'recustomers.

(18:38):
How do you like to be treatedwhen you go to the supermarket?
On your day off when you go toeat at a restaurant, or on your
vacation time when you go to thebeach.
We have X numbers of vacationdays a year.
How do you want to spend them?
How do you want to be treated?
And trying to grow the empathyon them, I think is the best

(19:01):
way, and that's a repeatingspeech.
You know, we're here to serve onthe nice human way.
We're here to share what wehave.
And we have to be consciousabout it, what we're doing, and
I we as as as the business,let's say, we have to keep
reminding our staff of that.

(19:21):
And I think it works, and I Ithink people are empathic.
People have to understand thatthe team has to understand that
our visitors come here and theyhad a choice.
First, they could have gone toanother country, but they choose
to come to Costa Rica.
That's number one that we haveto be grateful for.
Second, in Costa Rica, I don'tknow.

(19:42):
There are 50,000 hotel rooms inthis country.
They could have stayed at anyother one, but they choose to
stay at ours.
So we have to deliver.
And the best way to deliver isdo things with passion, with
love.
Transmit that to the client.
You know, make them feelwelcome, make them feel special.

(20:02):
And this is not a motto, it'sthat they are special, and they
are truly special.
I mean, how can I feel aboutsomeone who had the option of
going to stay at any other ofthe thousands of hotels in Costa
Rica if they choose to stay atChayote Lodge?
How can I feel about it?
Yeah, I have to feel very goodfirst, then I have to be very

(20:26):
reciprocal on what we're doingfor them.
And that goes from the kitchento the mate to the gardener to
the front desk.
Everybody has to be on the samemood.

SPEAKER_00 (20:38):
I I see so I see and hear so much pride in your voice
and commitment to this.
I'm curious, do are your staffgenerally able to appreciate
that as much as you are?
Because you can say, wow, isn'tit great they chose our place?
That says, you know, number one,I picked the right place, I
developed the right place, butalso you hired the right team.

(21:01):
And then does your team, is yourteam able to look at that and
say, Well, isn't this friggin'cool?
Look at this, this is partsomething I'm part of, and these
people are coming back, youknow, three times.
Or are they able to see that?
Do you feel that from them aswell?

SPEAKER_02 (21:15):
Yes.
Yes, I I truly do, and and I seetheir authenticity when they're
working and their love for forthe job and and for the lodge,
and they are constantly bringingup ideas, or why don't we do
this?
Uh, we should change this, or Idon't like how that's looking,
or you know, so having the teaminvolved in in the mission of

(21:36):
the of the business is crucial.
It's crucial because they arepart of the lodge.
Yeah, you know, yeah.
They that's and if you if you godeeper and if you have to define
what's what's the lodge, what'sthe hotel, what is it?
Is it the rooms, is it the view,is it the stuff, is it the food?
What is it?
It's the union of all those verydifferent things.

(22:01):
And you have to get thesuppliers, the and the staff,
and the clients, and everybodyhas to go, even the clients have
to go.
I I keep telling my my my team,you know, let's picture this way
we're movie directors.
That's what we are, but we'renot the actors, we're only the

(22:21):
directors.
So, what's our job?
Our job is to make sure that thestage is ready, that costumes
are ready, that makeup is ready,that lights are ready, that
everything is ready.
So when the actor comes, theyhave to play.
They have to do their job.
We will not do their job.

SPEAKER_00 (22:40):
Right.
Yeah.
I cannot and how do you find thejob of the actor?

SPEAKER_02 (22:45):
I I I find it great because everything is already
set up for them to come and dotheir job.
And what is their job?
Enjoy.
Yeah, that's what I was gonna uhWe admire nature.
I see them looking at thehummingbirds and they go for
hours looking at thehummingbirds, and well, that's
their job.

SPEAKER_01 (23:03):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (23:04):
They're performing.
That's what they are supposed todo.
That's their time.
We have to make sure that wehave the right plant with the
right flower for the hummingbirdto come.

SPEAKER_00 (23:16):
Love it.
Hey, let's let's do this becausewe've talked a bit about kind of
the environment, the culture,the people, and all that stuff.
I do want to touch on before weget into the history, I do want
to touch on a little bit aroundthe activities, because my
understanding is not just alodge.
You can help them leave thelodge and do things.
So what other kinds ofactivities are in the area?

(23:38):
How do you how do you run those?
What should people know about?
Other than wow, it sounds like agreat lodge, great staff, great
place, but what am I gonna do?
Exactly.
You know, comes up, right?

SPEAKER_02 (23:49):
And that's very important because I always say,
regardless of how beautiful ahotel can be, no one travels for
a hotel.
People have people have a peopletravel to have an experience.
So again, when it comes tobuilding the experiences, it was
the same philosophy.
Said, okay, I have friendscoming to see me when I have not
seen them in 10, 15 years, andthey're coming from abroad.

(24:12):
What am and they're gonna stayone week with me?
What am I gonna do every day?
Right?
And there's when we start theplanning of the different
activities.
So right now I have over 10different activities that people
go from here.
They have we have the cloudforest hiking, we have bird
watching, we have uh waterfalls,we have the blue falls where

(24:35):
people can go swimming actuallyin a torque torquish blue river,
very, very beautiful.
We have the volcanoes, we havethe Poaz Volcanoes, we have the
Hot Springs about one hour fromthe lodge.
We have coffee tours becausewe're in the middle of the
coffee country.
Now we have a coffee cuppingtour, we even have a painting
workshop for people to learn howto paint oxcards, which is

(24:58):
something very famous in CostaRica.
So there is a lot of activities,and we have actually divided
them in two different kinds.
We have the the cultural sidethat we want to offer, and we
want the nature side becausethere's something also I've
learned throughout my throughoutmy career.
People come to Costa Ricabecause they are motivated by

(25:19):
nature.
They want to see the volcanoes,the rainforest, the cloud
forests, the wildlife, thewetlands, the beautiful beaches.
But when they get here, theydiscover something that it was
not in the radar, which is thepeople.
And when they fly back home, youask them what was the best part
of Costa Rica, and I tell you,90% of them will say the people.

(25:43):
So I said, okay, let's build aproduct where we bring people
closer.
So we have activities where wego and eat street food in a
local soda, where we have acooking experience in a local
home.
And actually, I have a guestonly two days ago, and and we

(26:03):
took her to the cookingexperience in in this beautiful
town, uh at this beautiful housefrom from the from the village,
and the lady still cooks withwooden stove, and that's the
only stuff that she has.
And it was Sunday afternoon, soall her siblings come around and
she has 11 siblings, and thehouse was full of people.

(26:25):
And my guest was cooking threedifferent kinds of local, very
authentic dishes, and then theyall had dinner together.
I'm like, that's what this isabout.
This connecting people is whatit's about.
And and this guest, she comesfrom a tour operator in the US,
she was on assigned inspection,and they specialize on cooking

(26:45):
tours.
It's called the InternationalKitchen, and they run tours
throughout the world just forcooking experiences.
And she was mentioned, I loveit.
She said, This was so authentic,it's so authentic.
You know, it's not the cookingclass you do at other beautiful
destinations, and they are thebest ones, too.
But this one is so real, soauthentic.

(27:07):
So, again, all the activitiesare designed with that vision.
It has to be something thatlocals would enjoy, that is
beautiful, and you as a visitorwill feel uh safe in a
controlled environment, youknow, and and enjoying yourself.
So, again, we have the birdwatching, the cloud forest, the

(27:28):
rainforest, the volcanoes, deeplining, hanging bridges in the
cloud forest.
So there is really plenty ofthings to do.

SPEAKER_00 (27:35):
Curious when you started you, okay, we want to do
some sort of cooking class, andyou find somebody in the
community, maybe this woman thatyou were describing that's still
cooking with uh wood fire orwood stove.
How does that go when you firstapproach them?
Are they excited, excited,skeptical?
I'm just curious what what thatlooks like, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (27:56):
And then what happens because they their first
reaction is like, No, I'membarrassed.
I do not speak English.
Who are the people?
And then they don't feel theirhouse is beautiful enough.
I said, Your house is sobeautiful, it's just a regular
house of the community, and it'sa beautiful house, and you know,
you just talk to them, but butthere is an advantage here, they

(28:17):
are nice people by nature, andthey wanna help.
They truly want to help, and youcan see that so at the end it
becomes something natural, andfor that that that first
experience, it's huge for thembecause they've never done it
before.
Like anything that it's yourfirst time, it's gonna be always

(28:38):
big.

SPEAKER_00 (28:39):
Yeah, scary, intimidating.

SPEAKER_02 (28:41):
Yeah, and and I think it's uh win-win,
everybody's happy.
And it's and and also and alsotaking this to a more social um
analysis when it breaks theirroutine.
They have a uh quite steady wayof life, you know, that you can
predict every day is gonna besimilar to the previous day in a

(29:04):
very small rural town wherethings don't happen too often,
and then suddenly you havestrangers walking into your home
and eating in your kitchen.
So for them, also it becomes anactivity.
It's not only for the visitor,but for them it's also an
activity.
They're breaking their routine,they're experiencing something

(29:27):
new, new, they are meeting newpeople, they are exchanging
their Facebook accounts, nowthey're following each other,
now they share photos, andsuddenly you see that both lives
are touch.
Both lives gain something fortheir future days, and that's

(29:47):
something that is alsobeautiful.

SPEAKER_00 (29:49):
I love it because what I'm because I've spent
enough time in you knowdifferent communities,
especially Latin communities,and I'm just sure that this
woman had probably never had doyou guys do you use the term
gringos there to describe?
Yeah, I I suspect so.
So that I'm just gonna make iteasy and say they've never had a
gringo in their house in ever.

(30:10):
Like, you know, however longthey've been alive, you know,
and then you've got the thetourists, maybe I shouldn't use
the term gringo, but you've gota tourist from you know North
America or Europe that's neverbeen in a real house in Latin
America.
You know, they've maybe stayedat a lodge, they've maybe toured
a a house museum or somethinglike that.

(30:32):
But those are huge things, thoseare really cool for bringing
people together.
Yeah, it's um yeah, it it'sgreat to be out with a guide
looking at birds, doing birdwatching, and I think that's a
great activity as well.
But just go into somebody'shouse, like you know, and uh for
both sides.
That's that's very cool.
I'm happy to do that.
You actually said something,it's it's not super important,

(30:53):
but I do want to ask becauseI've kind of come across it and
I I just am curious.
You mentioned coffee cupping.
I'm guessing a lot of ourlisteners don't know what that
is, or maybe they all do, andI'm the only one that doesn't.
But just real quick, what iscoffee cupping?

SPEAKER_02 (31:08):
Yeah, coffee cupping is the ability to qualify coffee
through different techniques.
So we have this professional,this man that is whose
profession is exactly to qualifycoffee.
So they will he will bring sevendifferent types of coffees.
You just first have to see thethe dry bean, the different

(31:29):
kinds of beans, the smell, andthen when the coffee is roasted
and grounded, and then they pourhot water at different size at
different cups with differenttypes of coffee.
Then he will teach you how toflavor it.
And because he had sevendifferent ones, you will learn

(31:50):
how to differentiate them.
Some are more fruity thanothers, some are more sour than
others, and it's like winetasting.

SPEAKER_00 (31:58):
Okay, that's what I was that's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_02 (32:00):
It's like wine tasting, and at the end you will
be able to see what coffee is ofbetter quality, and it will also
help.
If you like coffee, it will alsohelp you picking the right
coffee for your taste and foryour body.
Because you I'm sure you'veheard people that said, ah, that
coffee it really gave me astomachache or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 (32:19):
But you don't know why.

SPEAKER_02 (32:20):
And you don't know why, and there is always a
reason for that why.
So, understanding that from thescientific point of view is what
they learn in this workshop,which is really, really
beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 (32:32):
Okay, that's very cool because I I think a lot of
people that haven't had theopportunity to do something like
that or visit coffee farms, youknow, uh in the States, you walk
into the coffee aisle andthere's everything from Maxwell
House to Starbucks to whateveryou can imagine.
And if you're like me, you'rejust like, which one do I

(32:53):
choose?
You know, right.
And that's that's pretty cool.
Um, because there's an awful lotof people that drink coffee but
don't really know why they drinkwhat they drink, and they just
kind of drink whatever's put in.
So anyway, that that's that's uhthat's pretty cool.
All right, let's uh let's diginto where you were because you
mentioned a couple times.
You've got 30 years in thetourism business, and I know
it's not out all at the lodge,um, but we're gonna go back even

(33:16):
further because you mentionedthat you grew up in that area.
How far back do we need to go,Rolando, to uh kind of get a
feel for how you ended up doingthis?

SPEAKER_02 (33:24):
Well, yeah, I I don't know.
I I finished uh university inthe we're going further than
that.
Yeah, because it's it's it'svery easy.
When I finished school in 1992,I went for hotel management.
Then I got a first job in in ahotel in up in Guanacaste, in
Tamarindo.

(33:44):
Uh I didn't really like it.
So only six months later I quitand I went and applied at a DMC
in San Jose.
And I got a job there.
I worked for it, it was calledin those days Swiss Travel.
And I worked for Swiss Travelfor 30 plus years, and I started
in the in a hotel selling toursin a tour desk.

(34:05):
All right.
And then I grew up within thecompany.
I was then in charge of OpenGuanacaste, which is the
northern region of Costa Rica.
And then I was in product, I wasin sales, I was in marketing,
and I was this director of salesfor the last 15 years.
Then about in 2010, I got theopportunity to buy this piece of
land of about four acres.

(34:27):
Stop there.

SPEAKER_00 (34:29):
Rolando, stop there because this is your life and
you're moving through it really,really fast.

SPEAKER_02 (34:35):
Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (34:36):
I want to dig a little deeper.
I want to go back to youmentioned that when you I don't
know the the school systemthere, but you mentioned you
went to school for hospitalitymanagement, right?
But let's go back to when youwere a little younger.
I want to see what was littleRolando's Rolando's life like at
home.
What were you, you know,siblings, stuff like that?

(34:58):
What were you, you know, whatwere you doing when you were,
let's say, I don't know, let'spick a number, 10, 12 years old.

SPEAKER_02 (35:04):
Well, it I have to say it was a very beautiful
life.
I don't know if it's Yeah,that's weird.
Why do you want to skip over itso quick?
Every every pastime is is betterthan that's my marking dirt.
Yeah.
I grew up in this small town andwe went to school like any other
kid, but in the summertime,which was your wintertime,
December, January, February, iscoffee picking season.

(35:28):
So we have to go and pickcoffee.
And that's what I did when I wasin elementary school when I had
it while I was in high school.
And it's a job that you don'tlike, you're forced to do
because that's that's the onlyjob you can do at that age, and
especially in a small town.
But you know, you have to be atthe coffee plantation at 6 in
the morning.
Plants are cold and wet.

(35:51):
You miss your vacation timeworking in a coffee plantation
while you cannot go and playwith your friends.
You have this basket around yourwaist, picking all the red beans
one by one.
In that process, you run intoany kind of accident from worms
that will eat you in your skinto dropping your coffee and then

(36:17):
collecting by hand all thousandsof things.

SPEAKER_00 (36:20):
You gotta pick the same beans too.

SPEAKER_02 (36:22):
You know, so it's a job that you don't want it, but
at the end you you get used tothat, and then it becomes
beautiful, and then it becomeswhen you're done with it, it's
beautiful, and then it becomesphilosophical, and then when the
years pass by, you think aboutthose times and you're like,
wow, I do miss that.

(36:44):
Okay, the conversations and thejokes you made in the coffee
plantations, the people that youmet, lunchtime was the best, and
I can guarantee you you talk toanyone who has picked coffee,
and their answer is gonna be thesame.
You eat cold food, cold rice andbeans with a lemonade, and

(37:04):
that's the best tasting food youcan dream of.

SPEAKER_00 (37:08):
So because you're because you're tired and hungry,
you've been working your assoff.
Let me ask you this though.

SPEAKER_02 (37:14):
Well, I never thought, well, and we'll get to
this later.
The lodge is designed aftercoffee.
So the design of every room isafter coffee, a picking after
coffee receiving station, allthe decoration, the
architecture, everything isaround coffee.
I had never thought in thosedays that I would ever have a

(37:36):
hotel inspired in coffee.

SPEAKER_00 (37:39):
Did you that is super super super cool?
I'm happy we went back a littlefurther.
Thank you.
Was so you mentioned yourfriends and your colleagues were
like, was it one of those thingswhere it was pretty much all the
kids were doing this?
And was it only kids or werethere adults picking coffee as
well?
I just want to kind of imaginewhat that looked like.

SPEAKER_02 (37:56):
It's a family thing, at least in those days was a
family thing.
So you yeah, you would have theparents and the kids picking
coffee, and not everybody in thecommunity, of course.
Now we're talking of largercommunities.
Usually people poor, more poorfamilies to let's say meet
families, that would be theiroccupancy in that time of the
year in in towns like where welive, where we produced a lot of

(38:18):
coffee.
Correct me if I'm wrong.

SPEAKER_00 (38:20):
I I thought I did a coffee tour somewhere in
probably here in Colombia, andmaybe that's the difference.
And I thought that I'd learnedthat coffee beans, there is a
period of year where theyproduce more coffee, but that
it's something that actually isharvest mostly year round, and
maybe there's a differencebetween coastary.

SPEAKER_02 (38:39):
There is there is only a season because it takes
one year for the coffee for thecoffee beans to be ready.
So after the third year, theplants start giving coffee, and
then it's uh it's a one one timea year production.

SPEAKER_00 (38:53):
Okay, and it's kind of that.
And it lasts a few weeks only.
A few weeks, okay, which is whythey need everybody that's
available to come out.

SPEAKER_02 (39:00):
And that's why, for example, in Costa Rica we have
the the school breaks in thesame time of coffee season.
So children could go from schoolto pick coffee.

SPEAKER_00 (39:13):
Wow, isn't that nice?
And did you do you remember?
Did you like openly say to yourparents, I don't want to do
this, I this sucks.

SPEAKER_02 (39:22):
Well, you have to I'm sick, I don't feel good.
I mean because my mother, shewas a school teacher, and uh so
she was off as well.
Exactly.
So she would go.

SPEAKER_00 (39:31):
Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 (39:32):
She would go and she didn't she didn't have the need
to go.
But I remember her saying thatwhen she was a small child, or
when she was a child, she had togo.

SPEAKER_01 (39:44):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (39:45):
And and for her, it was like remembering those days.

SPEAKER_00 (39:49):
So I So the maybe the first time she did it, she
didn't enjoy it as a kid.

SPEAKER_02 (39:54):
Like everybody.

SPEAKER_00 (39:54):
But when she was going back in with her kids to
do it, it was like, oh, but thisis something I did when I was a
kid, and I want to share it withyou.
So she's probably she's probablywalking around smiling, isn't
this great?
And you guys are like, Yeah,yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (40:06):
Yeah, yeah, you describe it perfectly.

SPEAKER_00 (40:08):
I I've I've had some experience like that with my
family.
How many siblings did you havein your family?
I have one.

unknown (40:14):
Okay.

SPEAKER_00 (40:15):
A brother or sister?
One brother.
He's a piano player.
Would he would he describe thecoffee picking pretty much the
same way you just did?

SPEAKER_02 (40:23):
Yes, I would say so.

SPEAKER_00 (40:24):
Yeah, all right.
And is he younger or older?

SPEAKER_02 (40:27):
He's older, and he went for music.
So he's a a good piano playerand a music teacher in high
school, and he made me go intobuying a piano for the lodge.
So we have a beautiful acousticpiano in the restaurant, and he
comes to play every Sunday, andhe's there for also guests to
play.
So suddenly you have guests juststanding up and going to play

(40:49):
the piano and enjoying theirlife.

SPEAKER_00 (40:51):
That's very cool.
Does he, as far as you canrecall, I mean, obviously he's
engaging with your guests nowwhen he comes to the lodge and
plays.
Do you recall him ever haveexpressing an interest in
tourism or hospitality, or didhe just went straight into
music?

SPEAKER_02 (41:08):
He knew his straight into music.

SPEAKER_00 (41:11):
That's uh that's that's very cool.
Why did you choose hospitalitymanagement?

SPEAKER_02 (41:16):
That's a good question.
When I was 17 years old, andprobably that was a
life-changing decision, I wentto the US for a year as an
exchange student.
But when I came back in 89, I uhspoke English, which was not
like the norm in those days inCosta Rica.

(41:36):
So then I have to pick what todo after that.
So I said, okay, of course I'mgonna go to university.
And I said, Well, I had alreadybeen abroad for a year.
In that year, I learned toadmire the beauty of Costa Rica,
and I said, Costa Rica is sobeautiful that it will only take

(41:57):
time for people to discover itand people will line up to come
to Costa Rica.
So I think the future of CostaRica is gonna be tourism.
So I'm gonna go for that.
So I went to school thinkingthat that was gonna be the
future, and and I remembered theday I came to the local little

(42:19):
to the central park in my town.
It was a bigger town than werethe lotches, and you know, we
all gathered together, all thehigh school friends, and I I
remember I came back and we allhad to go to register for
university the same day.
So that was the conversationthat night.
And what what did you registerfor?

(42:41):
Or what are you gonna do?
And there you had lawyers,people going for law, for
medicine, for architect, forengineering.
And I'm like, I'm gonna go fortourism.
And I remember a friend said,What?
Why are you gonna pick that?
You better do a cooking class.
How can you think of that?
Like, well, you will see, itwill work.

(43:03):
Now he's a lawyer, he's been alawyer for 30 years, and I've
been in the travel business for30 years, and now we meet every,
you know, whenever we meet everyyear or whatever, and like,
okay, let's see how we have bothenjoy our lives.

SPEAKER_00 (43:19):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (43:21):
So I think it was a good decision.

SPEAKER_00 (43:23):
I and I think so.
But you know, it's yourexperience is not that different
from a lot of people, especiallya lot of people that have been
on this podcast, is you know,when they decided to go be a
guide or be a you know to workin tourism.
I think a lot of them, theirfamilies, their friends, said
the same thing.
You know, mothers and fathersthat imagine their kid being a

(43:45):
lawyer or a scientist, and andthen he sh, you know, he or she
shows up and says, I'm gonna bea tour guide, or I'm gonna open
up, you know, do bicycle toursor food tours or whatever.
And I remember the first time Imentioned to my family that I
wanted to be a fly fishing guideand go into tourism.
I got no support.

(44:06):
I shouldn't, maybe they'relistening.
My mom might say, I I wasencouraging, but I don't know.
It was, how are you gonna makemoney doing that?
And don't you think you shouldbe responsible and do something
else?
And here today, you and I aresitting here having this
conversation, hopefully livingour best lives.
So I get it.
And there was there wassomething else that I want to

(44:27):
Yeah, I think we need to diginto the whole exchange student
thing.
I'm happy again, I'm happy wewent back far enough to touch on
that.
I guess the first question ishow did that come about?
How were you able to do that?
What type of organizationallowed you to do that?
And then I want to hear moreabout your actual time overseas.

SPEAKER_02 (44:47):
Yeah.
Well, every year we had exchangestudents in high school in my
community, and there was thereis an organization called AFS,
American Field Service, and theyprovide a scholarship.
So you would apply for to bepart of their program, and it
would take one year.
The process to be approved.
So during that year, you have togo through several tests and

(45:10):
screening to finally be approvedor not.
And I was approved.

SPEAKER_00 (45:15):
What kind of before we go on?
What I'm just curious, what doesthat mean when you say we had to
go through tests and well theyhave I remember this is so many
years ago.

SPEAKER_02 (45:23):
We would that we would have like monthly meetings
where they would go throughdifferent subjects and talk
about social issues or politicalissues, and you have to learn
and you have to study and thenyou have to share and you have
to do team building activities.
Probably they will measure yourcapability of team building and
and working together and andyour personality for exploring,

(45:44):
you know, and and how to adaptto new uh ecosystems and how how
would you go away at 17 and moveone year from your house?
Uh are you how mature are youfor that?
You know, probably they havedifferent kinds of of um um
statistics or or way how tomeasure that and and do that

(46:05):
because I do remember at thebeginning we in those days maybe
we were 500 people applying forthat, and maybe 100 could
travel.
So let's say 400 were notqualified during the year.
And at the end, they'd send me,or they I was lucky, very, very
lucky, to be sent to Missouri.
I was in where I was that waslucky.

(46:27):
Yeah, very, I tell you.

SPEAKER_00 (46:31):
Let me before we get into discussing Missouri and the
differences between Missouri andCosta Rica.
I know it was a long time ago,but if you were to guess, what
do you think it was that theorganization was you kind of
mentioned what the testing andthe qualifications I'm curious,
what were they trying to avoid?

(46:52):
Like when they're like we wantto pick uh we've got a hundred
spots and we've got five hundredkids.
We want to pick the 100 that aremost likely to actually stay the
whole year and not want to gohome, or is it something else?

SPEAKER_02 (47:05):
I I my guess now that you you mentioned it, I
think about it, I never didbefore.
Probably they use differentkinds of criteria.
Probably they try to doselecting people from different
parts of the country because youhave these programs, put it this
way they provide you in ascholarship to go abroad for a

(47:27):
year to come back with a foreignlanguage, with a vision totally
different than the community youleft a year before, and thus
become leaders in thatcommunity.
So probably I would imagine theytry to randomly pick people from
larger towns, from smallcommunities, from bigger cities,

(47:49):
from different paths of life.
Because here in thisorganization is huge.
I mean, they have been, I think,I think it started in the Second
World War, and you have AFSersall over the world, and you have
big leaders.
Big leaders, people have beenpresidents of countries or big
businessmen and whatever thatstarted, or they they who did

(48:12):
the year abroad with AFS.
So I would imagine it takesdifferent profile of people,
people on economic slow orhigher social incomes and very
low social incomes, uh thateconomic incomes that could
balance, you know, when theycame back to their own countries

(48:33):
to to do something for theircommunities.
And you see them in Africa, inAsia, in Latin America, all over
the world.

SPEAKER_00 (48:40):
So it is what I hear you saying is they legitimately
were trying to make the biggestimpact.
We want to take the kids, numberone, who will actually see it
through.
Because if they send, if theyjust pick 100 kids at random and
you know, 50 of them gethomesick after two months and
come home, then they wasted allthat money and it didn't make an

(49:01):
impact.
So pick kids that'll see itthrough, but then will also come
back and make an impact in theircommunities.
And this is on both sides.
I I'm envisioning it's not justwhat can we do to make the
Colombian or Columbia, the CostaRican economy better.
How can we make an impact there?
It's take kids from the US orother countries and have them go

(49:21):
experience uh Costa Rica, Latinculture, and then bring that
back to their communities aswell.
Uh so it's it's a two-waystreet.
Yeah, it sounds like.
Yeah.
It is.
That's that's pretty cool.
All right, Missouri.
So uh you said you were verylucky to go to Missouri.
I love Missouri.
Anybody that's listening thatloves Missouri, it's it's an
amazing, wonderful place.
And um, what was do you rememberwhat your first thoughts were

(49:45):
when you landed in Kansas City?
Where did you fly into?

SPEAKER_02 (49:48):
Well, we flew from Costa Rica to New York.
We stayed one week at a campusat I at a university in New
York, all the kids from all overthe world.
We met how cool.
And then after that week there,where they gave us, I guess,
basic information of the countryand whatever.
We were sent to the differentstates.

(50:09):
And I flew to Kansas City.

SPEAKER_00 (50:12):
Did you know when did you know from the very
beginning you were going toMissouri or did you go to New
York and then find out whereyour assignment was?

SPEAKER_02 (50:20):
They gave us the information, or we were going, I
think maybe like a month or twomonths before flying.

SPEAKER_00 (50:26):
Okay, sorry.
But by the time you got to NewYork, yes, so you're you knew
exactly where you were going.
You and all the other students,I'm sure one of the first
questions was, I'm going toMissouri.
Where are you going?
Right, I imagine, right?

SPEAKER_02 (50:39):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (50:40):
And what kind of res Do you remember?
Here you are in New York, whichis a little different than
Missouri.
Do you remember havingconversations with the other
students and having them like,Missouri, where where is that?
Or were you still excited to goto Missouri by the end of that
week?

SPEAKER_02 (50:55):
We we were we were 17 years old.
So I guess we were all veryexcited where we were going.
I guess some states would bemore appealing at that age.
People going to California werelike, oh, you're so lucky you're
going to California.

SPEAKER_00 (51:08):
You know, that's what I'm getting at.

SPEAKER_02 (51:09):
That kind of thing.
And and but I was fine.
I mean, I was happy, I didn'tknow anything about Missouri.
And I remember you we hadexchanged a letter with the host
family before.
Before I flew to the US, theyhad sent me a letter with a
photo of their family and whatand a nice letter from the
mother.

SPEAKER_00 (51:28):
Back before video, back before video calls.
Of course.

SPEAKER_02 (51:32):
Before we had internet.
And I remember the letter hadtheir home address with their
zip code.
And when I was at the universityat this campus in New York, they
had my name with the address Iwas going to, and the zip code
was different.
It was the same town name, butthe zip code was different.

(51:54):
Like for one number.
And I was concerned.
I'm like, oh my god, is this amistake?
My family in Costa Rica has adifferent address than the one
is showing here.
So I remember I was veryconcerned, and I went to talk to
one of the leaders, and Iremember she laughing and say,
You don't worry.
The letter will never get lostin Missouri.

SPEAKER_00 (52:16):
Well, that's one upside of small communities.
So you so it sounds like it wasa smaller community.
You flew into Kansas City.

SPEAKER_02 (52:24):
I flew into Kansas City and I took a bus.
They put me on a bus from KansasCity to Jefferson City.
And my host family wouldcollect, would come to Jefferson
City to collect me.
And we drove to Lake of theOzarks, Missouri.
Which was like, I think twohours' drive, maybe, I don't

(52:44):
remember.
And it was beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 (52:46):
Yeah, it is beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 (52:47):
I had the best family you could think of.
They became my real family up totoday.
Actually, my father he passedaway only last week, and it's
been like a hard time.
I could not make it there.
But we talk like very, veryoften.

(53:08):
They come to Costa Rica everytwo, three years.
I go to see them every two,three years.
So it's been a beautiful, abeautiful, beautiful
relationship.
And I remember my mother, Icalled, I called her mom.
We drove from Jefferson City tothe lake, and she had a job
before she moved to the lake.
They were originally fromChicago.

(53:29):
She had a job selling watermattresses.

SPEAKER_00 (53:31):
Like the water beds back in the day?
Yes.
Okay.
Alright.

SPEAKER_02 (53:35):
So yeah, the water beds.
So she would tell me the wholejourney, the two-hour drive,
that I would have a water bed.
And I did not understand a wordof what she was saying.
So I only said, Yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah.
Finally, when I get to thehouse, she takes me to the room
and she puts my hand on thewaterbed.

(53:56):
And I jump and said, Waterbed.

SPEAKER_00 (54:00):
I I guess this is a good time to ask you.
How much how would you rate yourEnglish at the beginning of this
trip when you arrived in KansasCity?

SPEAKER_02 (54:09):
Absolutely nothing.

SPEAKER_00 (54:10):
Did they speak Spanish?

SPEAKER_02 (54:12):
None.

SPEAKER_00 (54:12):
Oh, yeah, that's that's good.
All right.

SPEAKER_02 (54:15):
I will have my dictionary with me.
There was there was no no phonesand no Google Translator.
I would have the dictionary andI would have to go word by word.
And I went to a small school,school of the Osage High School,
and they people were so nice.
I remember one of my she wouldtake every day one hour of her

(54:36):
school time to teach me English.

SPEAKER_00 (54:39):
That's so cool.
Yeah.
Did did you feel frustrated at fI'm sure at times you felt

(55:00):
frustrated?
But I guess the question is whenyou got to Kansas City and got
on a bus at 17, didn't speak anyEnglish.
Did you think this is crazy?
They they should have told me.
They should have made sure thatI spoke English before, or were
you just happy to be there?

SPEAKER_02 (55:20):
You're just happy to be there.
I mean you that's cool.
Your goal of living thatexperience makes everything
work.
Yeah.
You don't stop to complain.
You don't stop to ask questions.
You just keep going andenjoying.

SPEAKER_00 (55:37):
Yeah.
Just figure it out along theway.
My experience was a bitdifferent, but when I first
started traveling full-time fourand a half years ago, I had been
to South America, I'd been toLatin America before, but I
didn't at that time I didn'thave any need to speak Spanish
because I was always visitingpeople that took care of me.
But when I started travelingfull-time and I bought a one-way

(55:58):
ticket to Colombia, I didn'tspeak any Spanish.
And but I was in my 40s and Ihad a phone in my pocket that
had Google Translator on it.
So it wasn't that big of a deal.
So I can't even imagine uh theexperience you had.
That's that's that's uh that'svery cool.
What other one thing youmentioned was you realized on
this trip how beautiful CostaRica was, and how and came to

(56:20):
the conclusion that people aregonna want to go there and visit
Costa Rica.
So tell me more about that ifyou can.
Like, do you remember how thatidea came up that Costa Rica was
so beautiful, or it just poppedin?
I mean, it was just obvious.

SPEAKER_02 (56:36):
I mean, I guess after seeing Missouri for a
year.
I discovered that Costa Rica wasbeautiful.
No, I I I was very lucky.
My family, they had a marina, sothey had a house on the lake and
Lake of the Ozarks, and it waswow, amazing.

SPEAKER_00 (56:56):
And you didn't have to pick coffee beans, like I
have to watch boats.

SPEAKER_02 (57:02):
I remember that.

SPEAKER_00 (57:03):
That's better.

SPEAKER_02 (57:03):
But it was beautiful.
I mean, when I see Costa Rica,when I let me how can I word
this?
I have been all my life in CostaRica, which was not beautiful
because it was what I had,right?
It was nothing new or nothingspectacular or nothing that will
take my breath away.
But then when I'm gone for ayear and I start seeing Costa

(57:27):
Rica with new eyes, I said, Wow,this town is beautiful.
Wow, look at that volcano.
I mean, I don't know how manyschool trips I did to the Poad
volcano.
Before I said, wow, this is themost beautiful crater in the
world.
So when you have the the visionto appreciate what you have

(57:48):
right next to you, is when Itruly believe Costa Rica is a
beautiful country that peoplewill want to come and explore.
And then you grow, you growolder and you understand, or you
start things, start think seeingthings differently and putting
the puzzle together, and thenyou get in the business and say,

(58:08):
Wow, what a fantastic way tohelp people is travel business.
And when I think about howtravel has changed thousands of
life, probably millions of lifearound the world.
It's amazing.
Travel for your vacation, andyou're really making a life
difference into someone's life.

(58:30):
They will finish school becauseyou visit them, because you
bought food from them, becauseyou stayed in their lodging.
And that's something beautiful.
Then then you want to get astar.
You want to get a startinvolved, involving in other
projects, and then you go to thelocal community chambers, and
you go to the tourism chamber,and you get involved in in

(58:50):
trying to do other things fromdifferent perspectives.
And it's beautiful.
I think travel is the best wayto spread wealth around.

SPEAKER_00 (59:01):
I well, there's wealth, and then there's so many
other things that are lesstangible.

SPEAKER_02 (59:05):
I can think of any other I I cannot think of a
better way to spread the wealtharound the world than travel.
You will hire people from themost sophisticated computer
engineer to a person that onlyknows how to clean or do the
gardens.
And that person will have agreat quality of life and will

(59:31):
guarantee the education of theirchildren, and only I think only
travel provides that in such aspread way.

SPEAKER_00 (59:39):
I agree, because you know, you look at the
alternatives for how doesinternational uh you know,
international trade, and youlook at things like I don't
know, oil production, textilemanufacturing, uh, you know,
farming imports, exports, andstuff like that.
And it's yeah, it's it's just alittle bit different than going
and visiting a place like yourswhere you've got a variety of

(01:00:01):
people from a variety ofdifferent backgrounds working at
the lodge, maybe even yourmarketing team that helped with
the website all the way up.
So yeah, I I get that.
Very cool.
I did want to ask you real quickbecause I think what you
described has been a bit of myexperience in the conversations
I've had with people here inLatin America.
Oftentimes when I meet them, alot of people are like, Oh,

(01:00:22):
you're from the US, and I wantto live in the US or I want to
go to the US.
They haven't been, and they it'sjust something aspirational.
And then I meet so many othersthat yeah, I lived in the US for
a year and I was really happy tocome home, you know.
And the people that, you know,whether it's you know, Colombia,
Mexico, Guatemala, Costa Rica,or whatever, like those people

(01:00:45):
that came back oftentimes arelike, Yep, I really love Costa
Rica now, or I really I I thinkthat my country is the most
beautiful in the world, and theydon't realize it until they've
had an opportunity to gosomewhere else sometimes.
Yeah, so I suspect you've you'veyou've spoken with more Latinos
than I have about the subject,I'm sure.
But is that kind of what youyou've seen as well?

SPEAKER_02 (01:01:07):
Yes, yes.
I think I think uh sometimes youhave to see things from the
outside to love or to appreciatewhat you have in the inside.

SPEAKER_00 (01:01:17):
Yeah, and I um because I imagine like
especially like your staff thathaven't had the opportunity
maybe to leave Costa Rica tovisit Missouri is you know they
get the the tourists from the USare like, oh my god, this place
is amazing, this is sobeautiful, and da-da-da-da-da.
And sometimes your staff arelike, Well, what why are they so

(01:01:37):
excited?
I don't under maybe the newstaff, the older staff maybe get
it, but the new staff is like,why is everybody so excited?
And that probably that'sprobably the second best way to
appreciate your country.
The first might be to leave it,and then the second best way is
maybe to engage with visitorsbecause you hear them talking
about how great it is, you'relike, oh yeah, actually it is

(01:01:59):
kind of nicer, you know.
I don't know, what do you think?
Do you think that somebody canappreciate your area just by
hearing guests talk about it?

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:09):
I think more than that.
I think people will appreciatethe area when they have a happy
life.

SPEAKER_01 (01:02:16):
Yeah, yeah, good thing.

SPEAKER_02 (01:02:19):
As long as they as we all realize that we have the
life that we want to have thenwe can appreciate what is what
is around us.
And you will take also that'sanother good part, you will take
better care of what is aroundyou if you appreciate what you
have right there.

(01:02:39):
And I think in Costa Rica notonly in my lodge or my
community, but in general, weare proud of our country.
We love living here.
If you see the statistics, Ithink we rank it.
Some people say we're the hypehappiest country in the world.
Other put us in number threeafter Finland and Switzerland or

(01:03:01):
something like that.
But in general, we appreciatewhat we have.
And we're proud of what we have.
And there I think the countryalso has been there has been
some marketing behind us in theecho thing.
When we said, okay, we're proudto protect uh 50% of the
country, and 33% in nationalparks and biological reserves,

(01:03:22):
and you know, all these thingsthat you keep hearing and
hearing, and somehow you growthem inside you and and
appreciate them.
But but first you have to behappy.
First, you have to cover yourbasics, you have to have
housing, food, education,health.

SPEAKER_00 (01:03:40):
Because if you need one of those Yeah, it's hard to
enjoy the volcanoes and thewaterfalls and the hummingbirds
if you are trying to figure outhow to put food on your family's
table or don't even have atable.
Yeah, I love that I love thatyou mentioned that because I do
remember a an acquaintance orfriend that I made here in
Colombia, and she's like,because I was like, Oh, my you

(01:04:00):
know, Colombia is my favoriteplace on the planet, and she's
like, Yeah, my country is can'tremember exactly what she said,
but it was something along thelines of my country is beautiful
and wonderful.
And then she said, if you havemoney.
And I kind of felt like an ass.
I was like, I don't, I don'thave money, I'm a podcaster.
But it was like, but she made agood point.
It's like she was able to seethat, yeah, there's a lot of

(01:04:23):
cool things here, but you know,if you can't go out and enjoy
them because you're you'reworried about money, it's yeah.
So you bring up a that's a goodpoint.
Yeah, yeah, I get that.
All right, let's now I want tokind of get back in a little bit
to the progression.
Uh however, you uh, you know, wecan point out the things that
you think were the mostimportant, but you you dropped

(01:04:46):
out of oh, actually, we shouldtalk about that.
You told your friends, I'm goingto hospitality school.
I signed up for hospitalityschool, and they're like, You're
crazy.
Why would you do that?
And then you mentioned that youdropped out of hospitality
school.
So what happened in those sixmonths?

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:00):
Well, I graduated from hospitality school.
You did?
Uh okay, I I missed that.
Okay.
I graduated in '92 and then Istarted working in a hotel.
And six months later, I quit myjob and then I got a job in a
DMC.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:16):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (01:05:16):
And I worked for that DMC for 30 years, 31 years
actually.
And it was in that course when Isaid, I always said, okay,
someday I want to have a littlehotel.
Then the opportunity came.
This piece of land was for sale,which was very close to my
house, and the view is amazing.
It's only one minute to the mainroad, it has all services,

(01:05:39):
electricity, water, internet.
So I said, that's it.
So I could finally contact theowner and we negotiated, and I
could buy the land.
And I have no money for anythingelse.
Of course, I have to pay thatfirst loan.
Then I have had an experiencewith a hotel in Arenal Volcano.

(01:06:02):
There is a beautiful propertythere called Nayara, and I was
part of that foundation too, andthey had hired very good
architects.
And I said, I want the samearchitects for my property.
So I talked to the guys, I said,you know what?
I bought this land, I want tobuild a lodge, and I want you to
design it, but I don't havemoney to pay you.

(01:06:25):
So I made them an offer.
I said, I have no idea when Iwill build.
What about if I pay you$100 amonth starting now?
And someday I'll ask you to dothe plans.
Okay.
So for four years, every month Ipay$100.

(01:06:46):
And then when the time came, Isaid, okay, now I'm ready.
Start designing and drawing theplans.
So then they start with thefirst proposals, but of course I
had already paid a good amountof money.
But the time I could actuallystart working in the final or In
the beginning, steps of buildingthe lodge.

(01:07:08):
So they came with some um plans.
I didn't like them.
I mean, I said, you know what,guys, I want a very beautiful
room.
I know it will not be the besthotel in the world, it will not
even be close to the best hotelin Costa Rica.
But I want it to be the mostbeautiful room.

(01:07:30):
I want a I want a room that whenyou walk in, you said, Yeah.
I think that's smart.
That's what I want.
Because I will have to balancethe things that I know I will
never have.
Because a small 12-room propertywill not always get the service
and amenities that a largeresort has.

(01:07:52):
So whatever we have, it has tobe wow.
So they made a first room, okay,and then to make things worse, I
had traveled by then, I don'tknow, 50-60 countries because of
my job.
And I had stayed in probablythousands of hotels.
And in every hotel, I would say,I like this for my room someday.

(01:08:13):
I will take this for my room.
I remember the Le Meridian Hotelin Vienna.
They have a beautiful drainingin their shower.

SPEAKER_01 (01:08:23):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (01:08:24):
And I said, if I ever make a hotel, I want to
have the drainer of the MeridianHotel of Vienna.
You know?
And I will go thinking ofthinking.
So for the for the guys to comeup with a room idea was hard.
And I turned back threedifferent proposals.

SPEAKER_00 (01:08:40):
Because I mean, let me get this straight before we
go any further.
Because what I hear you sayingis I gave them a hundred dollars
a month for four years with theidea that when I was ready, they
would do the work, like all thework, or did you or were you
just like it was like, okay, I'mpaid in full, so now you do the

(01:09:01):
work, or were you still paying?

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:03):
Oh no, no, I will have because what the architect
will charge according to thevalue of the investment.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:09):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:09):
There is a percentage in in their charging
system.

SPEAKER_00 (01:09:12):
So you were just making down payments.
Exactly.
I was making down payments.
Okay.
Because he wasn't I wasimagining them like he only gave
us whatever the math is, youknow, four thousand dollars, and
now he wants more payments.
All right, because I wasthinking you sound like a really
difficult customer.
No, no, no, no.

(01:09:32):
Well, I want the drain from thishotel in Vienna, and I want the
the lights from this place inVietnam, and yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (01:09:40):
Exactly.
So I said, okay, I turned backthree different proposals for
the room design, and I didn'tlike them.
And one day I was walking out ofmy house, and right in front of
my house, there is a coffeereceiving station.
And for those who don't knowwhat a coffee receiving station
is, it's a wood box along theroad where farmers bring the

(01:10:06):
coffee at the end of the day,the coffee beans at the end of
the day, and a big truck comesand picks everybody's coffee to
go to the coffee mill.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:16):
Okay, so these are dried, these are the dried
coffee beans ready to go getroasted.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:21):
No, they are the fresh.
The fresh coffee.
So every day during the coffeeseason, the farmers, in Costa
Rica we have mostly small coffeefarmers.
So they gather together around acooperative and they bring the
coffee to the same coffee meal.
So the coffee meal would installthese coffee receiving stations

(01:10:42):
in the towns nearby where thefarmers bring their coffee
produce of the day.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:48):
In a bag, presumably, that's so they can
the people that pick it up knowit where it came from.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:52):
And then a big truck comes and picks everybody's
coffee.

SPEAKER_00 (01:10:55):
Okay, got it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10:56):
Yeah.
So this wood box is just, youknow, a square thing made out of
wood with no windows, and that'sit.
So one day I walk out of myhouse and I look at the coffee
receiving station in front of myhouse, and I'm saying, My god,
that's the room.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:12):
I mean a square, a square box with no windows.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:14):
That doesn't sound that sexy, but a square box with
no windows, and it has a storyto tell.
So I called the guys and I said,You know what, guys?
I found the perfect room.
It's gonna be like a coffeereceiving station, and they're
like, You're crazy, that thingis ugly to hell.
I'm like, It sounds crazy, it'sgonna be beautiful because where
the big truck comes and pickseverybody's coffee, it's gonna

(01:11:37):
be the balcony to the valley.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:39):
Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_02 (01:11:40):
And where the small farmers come to bring the coffee
at the end of the day, it'sgonna be the main door.
And we just have to do two stepsinside to keep the shape because
the shape is like inclining,like an inclining architecture.
And they came out with with afirst draft and it was
beautiful.

(01:12:01):
Very cool.
And it's I tell you, people goin the room from the inside and
the outside, and they're like,wow.
So I invite everybody to go tothe websites and look at the
rooms because Asia are verydifferent, and they have a story
to tell.
And then after picking the roomdesign, he said, okay, now
everything is gonna go aroundcoffee.

(01:12:22):
So the whole architecture, thedesign, the decoration of the
restaurant, of the public areas,everything is around the world
of coffee.
So it has a story to tell.
Everything has a story to tell.
All the decoration inside therooms is made out of coffee of
coffee wood, everything is doneby a local artisan.
So everything is very, verythought after.

SPEAKER_00 (01:12:46):
Okay.
I I don't know why this poppedin my head right now, but as
you're discussing that, I wasimagining a family coming to
visit you in what you kind ofdescribed as summer, but
basically it was kind of I thinkDecember through February is
coffee harvesting in in thattime.
Yes.
Is that right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
So I'm imagining after thisconversation, somebody bringing

(01:13:07):
their kids there and wanting togo spend a day picking coffee.
Can you has that happened?
Can you see that?
Is that something you would haveto do?

SPEAKER_02 (01:13:15):
Yeah, that's something we do.
Well, we have differentexperiences.
We have the coffee picking daywhere people go and pick coffee,
but it's not very very commonfor guests to request that one.
But we do the coffee tour wherewe go to a local micro mill with
a local family again, and theyshow us around their whole
production from the plant to thecup, how they pick the coffee,

(01:13:35):
how the coffee is sun-dried,then roasted, then grounded.

SPEAKER_00 (01:13:41):
Do you do you find that your guests, maybe when
they arrive at first, they don'tappreciate everything in the
building?
Because you said it's all coffeethemed decorations and all this
stuff.
Do you find that after they godo a coffee tour, coffee
experience, that then they comeback to the lodge and you're
like, oh, I recognize that.
I saw that over there becauseinside the room clicks with that

(01:14:03):
room.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:03):
Inside the room, there is a number of elements of
things that they already haveseen in the in the coffee mill.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:09):
So you should do that like at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:13):
And then if if you go to if you go to my website
and you go to the room tab,there is a description of the
room told by the room.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:23):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (01:14:23):
So the room is the one speaking that said, Welcome
to me.
What you're seeing here is this,this, this, and this.
And it's it's very inspiringtoo.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:33):
That's a that's a that's a really cool take on it.
I do you mentioned four years ofpaying the architect as you were
saving up money to go to thenext step.
Um but I'm also curious, likefrom the time you actually
bought the property until youopened the lodge, what kind of
time frame are we talking about?
About four and a half years moreor less.

(01:14:57):
Okay.
Okay, so and during that fourand a half years, were you still
maintaining your employment withthe DMC to keep this going?

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:07):
I assume I kept my employment with the DMC only
until last year.
I opened I opened in January of2015, and I only stopped working
for the DMC last year.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:19):
Okay, so yeah, so you were you had your hands in a
lot of different things, or acouple different things for
sure.
Talk to me about your family orother people in your life,
either in the last 15, you know,15 years or or currently, you
know, I I don't know your familysituation.
We haven't discussed that, butI'm just curious like other
people in your life and howsupportive of this are they?

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:43):
Well, I have a um a small family, was my my I'm
still single, so my my brother,my nephews, and my dad's side
are from the town where thelodge is.

SPEAKER_00 (01:15:55):
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (01:15:56):
So I have a couple of cousins who work with me at
the lodge.
So it's like yeah, like a familybusiness in many senses.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:05):
And then your brother comes out and plays
piano with you.

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:08):
He comes to play piano every Sunday.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:11):
Alright, that's uh that's that's very cool.
So it sounds like they'reoverall pretty enthusiastic
about what what you're doing.
So very cool.
What's uh what's big andexciting on the horizon for you,
other than just continuing towelcome guests and change
people's lives?

SPEAKER_02 (01:16:27):
I would like to grow, not in number of rooms,
but in services.
I would like to do a spa, Iwould like to do a little pool
or big jacuzzi.
I would like to do more tourswith the community.
Now that I'm full-time at thelodge, I also give more time to
the community.

(01:16:47):
So there is there are differentkinds of associations in the
local community, one for thewater, let's say.
So I'm already getting involvedwith the water committee of the
community.
Uh there is one that is called Idon't know how you call that,
Junta de Sarroyo Comunal.
It's uh the official or formalway how the town uh organizes.

(01:17:10):
So I'm already part of theirboard.
I'm also a member of the boardof of the of the Costa Rica
Chamber of Tourism.
So I like to participate indifferent kinds of uh social and
political uh institutions whereI can give back somehow.
And I and I like keeping busy, Ihave to say, because there is a

(01:17:33):
big truth here.
I was very busy at the DMC.
Yeah, it was one of the biggestDMCs in Costa Rica.
I would travel six months out ofthe year, had all different
markets to take care of fromEurope to North America to South
America, and then all thesegments.
I have the luxury market withVirtuoso, I had uh cruise chips,

(01:17:53):
I had uh groups, I had mice, youknow, I had all the world going
on, and suddenly I'm in this conpeaceful 12-room lodge.
And I'm like, oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:04):
I'm happy you brought that up because as you
were, you know, you mentioned Ijust left the DMC not too long
ago.
Somebody that's listening tothis and maybe isn't able to see
your face like I am mightinterpret it as okay, this lodge
sounds like where Rolando wentto retire.
But if but if you see, if you'refortunate like I am to see your

(01:18:26):
face, you know, you're you'reabout my age, it sounds like
probably early 50s based on someof the timeline you discussed.
And you just look like you havea ton of energy, ton of like
this isn't I this is not like alittle place to go sit in
retirement at this point, is it?
No, you've got other thingsgoing on.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18:43):
When I decided to to leave the DMC and last year, I
said, okay, now I'm going on anearly retirement.
I can, I mean, there is so muchthings going on that that I can
always get involved besides thelodge.
So of course, lodge is number istaking most of my time now, and
I want to be there, but I liketo get involved in community

(01:19:04):
activities, and so you don'tseem like the retired type.

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:08):
No, that's that's for sure.
Yeah, yep.
So that's uh it's it's verycool.
Rolanda, we've discussed a bunchof different things.
I know we probably missed a I'mgonna say I know we probably
missed some things, but I'mreally happy we went back to
before hospitality schoolbecause there were some real
nuggets in there that kind ofhelp explain a lot of the things

(01:19:30):
that we then went on to discuss.
So thank you for yourwillingness to go back that far.
And I'm curious, what did Iforget to ask you, or what do
you wish that I would have askedyou that you might want to share
with with our listeners aboutCosta Rica, yourself,
philosophy, anything like thatbefore we wrap it.

SPEAKER_02 (01:19:51):
I think we've covered pretty much all aspects
around the lodge.
Just would like to remark thatthe lunch is a beautiful place
for people to start theirjourney in Costa Rica or to end
it because our proximity to onehour to the airport that feels
like longer than that, becauseit's a very rural town, very
rural part of Costa Rica.

(01:20:12):
And no, I I think my message istravel.
Get out of your house andtravel, go wherever.
Go wherever.
I mean travel traveling is theonly activity where you will
spend money and will make youricher.
Everybody should travel more andmore and more.

(01:20:33):
I always uh have a comment tosay of those people that spend
their Sunday afternoons in ashopping mall looking at
windows.
I'm like, why don't they travel?
You know, even go to the localvolcano, go to the local park,
go to the river that is only 20minutes from your house.

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:50):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (01:20:50):
Enjoy nature, talk to people, and travel is the
bridge, I think, to to grow, todo things better.

SPEAKER_00 (01:20:59):
I I hope a lot of people, there's a lot of people
that need to hear that.
I hope they hear that.
I also recognize that most ofthe people that are listening to
this conversation right now,you're probably probably already
agree with you.
So hopefully we'll take a clipof this and put it in front of
people that need to hear thatmessage.
But I wanna I do want to ask youone.

(01:21:19):
So if I go to Costa Rica, I flyinto San Jose, I get off and I
meet my transfer driver, or Ishow up at the lodge, and the
first thing out of my like and Ishow up at your lodge and
someone comes out to meet me outfront, and I just say, Por a
vida, is that a greeting?
Is that like I want to give ourlisteners one thing that when
they go to Costa Rica, becauseif if they're going to Colombia,

(01:21:40):
you might say, you know, it'scomo estás, because everybody
says that, whether they want tohear your response or not, como
estás?
Like uh, and they usually say itthree or four times in a row in
three or four different ways.

SPEAKER_01 (01:21:50):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:51):
Like, I think I already answered that question,
but but if I'm going to CostaRica, I can get off the plane
and I can say pora vida, andthat's just a greeting.
It's kind of like in Hawaiimight be Aloha.
Is that right?
Yeah, yeah.
Am I interpreting that right?
Yeah, but right.
So so now everybody has knowswhat to say.
The first thing to say when theyget to Costa Rica.
So that hopefully res re reducessome of the you know, whatever,

(01:22:13):
makes it a little easier to go.
So very cool.
This was a lot of fun, Rolando.
Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:18):
Thank you.
No, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Let's uh continue to haveconversations.
I'm excited to to see what youcontinue to do.
And obviously, you know, I hadone night.
I guess we didn't mention thisconversation.
I had one night in San Josebecause of you know flight
delays and stuff like that.
And I was supposed to spendthree or four days in the
country.
I got one night, and I've beenwanting to come back ever since.

(01:22:41):
And when I do, I'll definitelycome up and visit you.
Rolando, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 (01:22:45):
Anytime.
Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:47):
All right, ciao.
Hasta luego, chao, buenos días.
C that's better.
Talk to you soon.
Bye.

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Adventure Travel with Rolando Campos - Chayote Lodge – Costa Rica

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Adventure Travel with Rolando Campos - Chayote Lodge – Costa Rica