Patrick Sullivan - Retiring Halifax Business Chamber President Reflects on a Incredible Career - Afternoon Pint

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Cheers, cheers.
Welcome to the Afternoon Point.
I'm Mike Dobin, I am MattConrad, and who do we have with
us today?

Speaker 2 (00:07):
My name is Pat Sullivan and I'm the President
and CEO of the Halifax Chamberof Commerce.

Speaker 1 (00:12):
I've seen you around a few times, I believe.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
I've been around.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
So the last time Matt and I saw you, I think you were
speaking to the Prime Minister,the former Prime Minister of
Canada, Justin Trudeau.
Not too long ago, that was inthe fall.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Well, December 9th.
It was quite interestingbecause he spoke here.
He spoke with a good degree ofenthusiasm.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
As if he was about to go on the campaign trail and
then a week later things kind ofunfolded in a different way
than he expected, I guess.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
That was very interesting.
It was very interesting Mikeand I were talking.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
I went home that night after that, listening to
that chat, and I said to my wifeI said you know what?
I think that was one of thebest I've ever heard him speak.
He sounded great.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
He sounded great, you brought out the best interview
of Justin Trudeau.
Well, that's very kind, that'svery kind.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
He was on a roll.
I will say that it was quitefunny.
Maybe I should tell thebackground story.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yeah please.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
So the background story it was kind of funny.
We started out and there's lotsof security with the prime
minister, all that sort of thing, and it's very, you know, timed
down to the minute.
So it was supposed to be andI'm sort of going by memory now,
but it was supposed to be abouta seven-minute talk and then I

(01:26):
was going to get to ask himquestions and we had pages and
pages of questions, uh, and heasked him like, four, so that I
guess that's the story.
So you know, he was supposed tospeak for seven, maybe 10
minutes.
Uh, at about 18 minutes I kindof looked over at his, uh, at
the person who he was travelingwith, and I kind of went you
know, like time and he kind ofwent ooh, because they had a

(01:50):
hard stop at 20 to the hour, Idon't remember what it was, so
20 to 4, I think they had a hardstop.
So at 25, after you know, Iwent up and stood beside the
stage ready to go on At 3.30,.
He was still talking, at 3.30,he was still talking.
At 3.35, he was still talkingand his campaign manager wrote
back and said you know, I guesswe'll leave at 3.45.

(02:13):
Right, and I said okay, 3.45.
And then I put so far dot dot,dot, because we're texting back
and forth, because I'm standingbeside the stage.
Anyway, he, finally, he didstop talking at about 345.
And once I got up there I justwasn't going to let him go, so I
didn't really care about thetime after that.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
That's great.
Well, matt and I went, becausewe thought we were going to meet
him after that.

Speaker 3 (02:36):
Oh, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
No, no, it wasn't your fault.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
My gosh, but yeah, they went so long, I think all
that kind of ended abruptly andthen he was gone he got out of
there fast he did.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
We had to go to get him on the show.
Yeah, I think they always do.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Maybe we still can get him on the show.
It'd be kind of fun to get himon now.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
I think Well, he's got more time.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
More time.
Yeah, I've heard a rumor thathe might be making a stop in
Halifax this summer.
Oh, really Well, so I think itwas some friends that have told
me that they're going to try tosee if we can get him on, so
we'll see you seem like a veryyou know it's different.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
You know I haven't met too many prime ministers,
and we do.
You know, sometimes we'reaccused of bias.
We do invite all of thepolitical leaders.
So we have invited, you know,the leader of the opposition.
Federally, We've invited theprime minister.
In fact, I kind of hate to sayit I mean I've been with the
chamber nine years now, oralmost nine years.
We've invited him every year.

(03:31):
This was the first time he cameand then he resigned a week
later.

Speaker 3 (03:34):
It's your fault, maybe it was.
Yeah, your questions were toohard.
They might have been you knowwhat, though?
That's one thing I actuallyreally always wondered about the
Chamber of Commerce is how doyou stay politically neutral
when you represent a workforcethat isn't neutral sometimes?

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well, we are neutral.
I want to make that pointabsolutely clear, although,
depending on which politicalparty is in office, I mean it's
kind of funny.
You know, we have aconservative government in Nova
Scotia.
Now I have been told byconservatives in government that

(04:13):
they think I'm a liberal.
I thought that was hysterical.
I then told one of the liberalswho was in government prior to
that and said isn't it funny?
You know, the conservativesthink I'm liberal.
He said well, what's funnyabout that is when we were in
government prior to that andsaid isn't it funny?
You know the conservativesthink I'm liberal.
He said well, what's funnyabout that is when we were in
government, we always thoughtyou were a conservative.
So you know exactly theopposite.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
So Mike and I have that problem.
We have the same problem withthe show.
Oh, really, by staying centerRight Well, yeah, we're trying.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Well, and I mean, I kind of say it In our case you
know, when you've got federalgovernment ministers, they tend
to come more often than you do.
Leaders of the there's only oneleader of the opposition, and
then, of course, he has a shadowcabinet, but the shadow cabinet
tends not to travel.
You know they're in Ottawa, butcabinet ministers will travel
and the prime minister willtravel.
And you know this particularleader of the opposition has
said in the past that he wouldprefer to meet people in smaller

(05:07):
groups in smaller locationsrather than doing larger groups
in organized ways.
So you know, that's what theychoose to do, so we tend to have
more people that are ingovernment than people that are
out of government Do you hearfrom like your membership at all
in terms of saying like you'renot putting enough pressure.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
Hear from like your your membership at all in terms
of saying like you're notputting enough pressure, like
you know, because I mean you're,you're essentially kind of
lobbying for the people, thebusiness people of halifax.
Do you get a lot of pressurewhere it's like I know you know,
just as an example, justbecause he was the last prime
minister, not picking on him oranything, but like some business
people, some small businesspeople, weren't happy with the
way, with certain policies thatjustin trudeau had.
Do you get pressure from peoplesaying like you need to do this

(05:46):
?
Oh all the time yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:49):
Yeah, all the time.
I mean we tend to think of itas advocating rather than
lobbying, but you know we wouldadvocate for our members.
So we have 2,000 members thatrepresent over 90,000 employees
in the greater Halifax area andspread across Nova Scotia and
some in other regions as well,and clearly when there are times
that they want us to convey anopinion, we'll do that.

(06:12):
I mean, we also come up withour own opinions, you know.
So you know we've done positionpapers on the airport and how
the airport is an economicdriver and how we should invest,
you know, as a province orfederal government, in airports.
You know we've done other thingsas well, but no, I mean we're
always talking to sort ofpolitical leaders, whether it's

(06:32):
municipal, provincial or federal, and we're always advocating
for our members.
It's interesting, you know,sometimes I'm asked by political
figures.
They say, you know, have youchecked with your members on
this?
The reality is, I'm talking toour members every single day.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
I mean yesterday.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yesterday we we hosted on the 14th.
We hosted um the uh, the mayorof Halifax.
We had 800 people in the room,Um, and as I'm walking through,
people are saying make sure youask this, make sure you ask that
.
I mean to be honest, we havethe questions pretty much set up
by that time.
But they're saying you know,these are the concerns that I
have, and when I'm out I'm justa regular guy.

(07:13):
It's a tough gig, but I'malways you know sort of the
chamber guy and people presenttheir opinions.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Matt and I have been at many chamber events and
you're always there from theafter hour points to the to.
We were at a chamber eventactually at the other Garrison
location.
We're at Garrison on Oxfordhere today.
You're talking to every singleone of the chamber members.
You're super engaged.
I think that's a really coolthing about you as a leader and
it's, I guess, sad to hearyou're retiring this year.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Well, yes, I mean we're going to find somebody.
You know, I've given lots oftime to the board to find the
right successor because we'vebuilt a pretty good thing.
I've obviously been involved inthe growth of the chamber in
Halifax.
I'd like to see it continue togrow and continue to evolve, and
for our members to be able tocontinue to get their messages

(08:00):
out to the folks.

Speaker 1 (08:01):
They need to get the messages out to yeah, and it's
grown in fun ways too.
I mean, I noticed like there'sbeen an arcade year at the
Chamber Awards and there's beennew themes and new kind of
contrast added that were neverthere before.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
It's more fun.
Well, I will have to give greatcredit to the team at the
Chamber.
So, whether it's the event team, the marketing folks, I mean,
they come up with these thingsevery year and I got to admit I
really don't know how they do it.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
The circus year was crazy.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
The circus year was unbelievable.
I mean you know, we did anevent where we talked about
oceans and they had whalesswimming along the side of the
wall.
You know, pints and Pointers isa great event which takes place
at the other Garrison Brewery,taking place next week in fact.
In fact, Not sure what dayMight be Wednesday or Thursday.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
We'll probably be there.
Okay, that'll be good.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
So that'll be great.
Yeah, I mean, the arcade thingwas amazing.
You know, dressing up as DonkeyKong probably wasn't my finest
hour but it was fun.
It was a lot of fun and weprovide a lot of information.
I mean, we've got you know.
I'm actually pretty excitedabout our spring dinner, which
is coming up on April 30th, andwe're going to have seven

(09:09):
courses of Nova Scotia food andblueberries, and fish, and
lobster and you know, and applesand you know all kinds of
things that are going to beamazing.
That are going to be amazingand it's a time, you know, it's
kind of a time to celebrate NovaScotia food, the abundance of
riches we have here in terms offood, drink, all those kinds of

(09:31):
things.
So it's, you know it's going tobe a great event, are you?

Speaker 1 (09:34):
getting a front row seat right now to this
interprovincial trade talk,Because it seems to be all the
rage and I mean you would be oneprobably hearing that buzzword
or thing quite a bit.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, absolutely.
We had a meeting with thepremier probably a couple of
months ago now.
It was actually prior, I think,to the first Trump announcement
on tariffs.
So yeah, we had a meeting withthe premier and it was chambers
from across the province, to befair, not just us and he kind of
unveiled that they were veryinterested in moving forward on

(10:07):
reducing barriers tointerprovincial trade and I mean
, we've been advocating for thatfor a long time.
So, both as the Halifax Chamberand then as a group of chambers
across the country, we're in agroup called the Canadian Global
Cities Council, which are theeight largest chambers across
the country.
So Montreal, Ottawa, toronto,winnipeg, calgary, edmonton,

(10:27):
vancouver and we've been pushinghard to get people to kind of
look at interprovincial trade.
I could talk aboutinterprovincial trade for the
next two hours, but because alot of people don't understand
exactly what it is and what thebarriers are, suffice it to say

(10:48):
we need to improve the ease ofsale On a high level.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
Yeah sure, let's just say what are the barriers.
So I'll give you a.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
Even before we jump into that, because I do want to
know that.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
With the interprovincial.
Are there any businesses here,Nova Scotia businesses, that are
worried about it, in the sensethat they are worried that they
have to try to compete withlarger local businesses in
Quebec, Ontario, Alberta,anything like that?
Is there any worry at all aboutthat?

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Well, there is.
I mean, why don't I give theexample first?
Then I'll tell you why peoplewould be worried and what
categories they might be alittle more worried.
What categories they might be alittle more worried.
So you know an example.
You know there's a medicaldevice company in the area.
It's easier for them to go tothe FDA in the United States and
get approval and boom, they cansell in all 50 states In Canada

(11:36):
, because health is a provincialresponsibility.
You have to go to 10 provincesand three territories, so 13
different areas.
You have to go to get approvalto 3 territories so 13 different
areas.
You have to go to get approvalto sell your product.
I mean, it's ridiculous.
So what that means is thatcompany won't sell in Canada.
It's just not worth their timeand effort to sell to 13
different locations.

(11:56):
They can go to the EU and theycan do.
I don't know who you go to inthe EU, but they have common
guidelines, common packaging,common everything.
You can sell in the EU to 400million people.
You can go to the US and sellto 350 million people.
Our peasly little you know, 41million people is really not
worth the effort when you've gotto go through 13 different
bureaucracies.

(12:16):
So you know there's an exampleLiquor.
You know we're sitting in a puband you know having a beer.
There used to be a time when,in order to sell beer in a
particular province, you neededto have a brewery in that
province.
That went away in MaritimeCanada.
That went away in MaritimeCanada, you know, a number of

(12:50):
years ago, when the Maritimessaid, ok, you can actually put
together.
You know, if you, if you'reLabatt in Halifax, you can sell
to the Maritimes without thesurcharge, the $2.40 surcharge
that an Ontario brewery or aQuebec brewery may face just to
sell in Nova Scotia.
So liquor is the big thing, youknow.
It's the easy thing tounderstand.
You know I can't take liquoracross provincial barriers.
You know there was a fellowthat did it from, you know, from

(13:11):
Quebec to New Brunswick.
He got charged.
I actually don't know theoutcome, but you know that was a
real problem.
So liquor is a big thing.
So now I'm going to get back toyour question, which is who's
concerned?
Breweries.
So the folks in Newfoundland,the brewery in Newfoundland, and
again, I'm not sure what it is,but have already said hey,

(13:31):
we're concerned because it'sfrankly cheaper for a brewery to
produce beer on a bottling lineat 1,600 bottles a minute.
Is that the right number?
Some crazy number 1600 bottlesa minute versus 300 bottles a
minute.
Or a craft brewer who'sproducing them at 15 bottles a

(13:54):
minute.
Right, so much less expensive.
So they can make it morecheaply and they could ship it
across the country for lessmoney than somebody could make
it in Newfoundland for example,even amongst craft brewers,
though, you've got a nine locksand you've got a guy down the
street who's just starting out.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Absolutely, it's like a party time brewing, right.
Absolutely, you know he's notmaking it that capacity.
Yeah, how can he compete, right?
No, you're right.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
And there are different rules.
Because you produce a certainamount, you're taxed at a
different level, so your taxesare lower when you're a small
producer.
As you get bigger, your excisetaxes become bigger and bigger
and bigger.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, so I think you answered my question there
before Matt interrupted, likethe.
Basically, you know, the tradebarriers are that every province
is different, has almost adifferent set of rules to play,
which makes it so hard to justdo business in Canada.

Speaker 2 (14:46):
It's about creating employment or maintaining
employment in that particularprovince, right?
So you know, in Quebec they'reconcerned about dairy, they're
concerned about farming.
You know, in the Maritimes weused to be a lot more concerned
about liquor because we're asmall province.
Again, somebody could just spinan extra shift in Ontario and
they could ship all the beerthat we need down here.

(15:07):
So you know there are peopleget concerned about these things
.
There was a free trade agreementdone nationally, so the
provinces and the federalgovernment all signed off.
When you look at the agreement,it was in the sort of 2017,
2018 kind of period.
When you look at the agreement,there are more pages of
exclusions than there areinclusions.

(15:28):
So the IMF, the InternationalMonetary Fund, has done a study
and they would say that ifCanada was to get rid of some of
these interprovincial tradebarriers, it would be as if we
were relieving a 21% tariff.
So when you think about that,that's more money for a business
, less regulation, all thosekinds of things.

(15:51):
Now, the downside and there is adownside is that people's jobs
will likely be impacted, right,If that happens, because you
will get more efficientproducers who are going to
probably sell their product kindof more cost-effectively and
may not need as many people.
I mean, if I don't have to dopayroll for four or five
different provinces, then I maynot need a payroll clerk to do

(16:15):
my payroll for those four orfive different provinces if I
only needed to do it for oneprovince.
So there will be people thatwill be impacted, hopefully.
However, you know people willsell more stuff and they'll need
more people to actually sellmore stuff across Canada or, you
know, wherever it happens to beWell.

Speaker 1 (16:35):
I mean, there's a buying Canadian trend right now,
and sometimes that's not viable.
Like.
Sometimes it's either you can'tget the product or it's more
expensive than the Americanproduct or whatever product
sitting right next to it, evenwith tariffs.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Well, I mean that's true, this bi-Canadian
phenomenon, you know.
I mean I've switched now fromJif peanut butter to back to
Kraft.

Speaker 1 (16:54):
You know which I had 25 years ago.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Because Kraft is made in Montreal you know, and it's
fine.
It's great peanut butter.
You know I'm happy to have it.
I think this is going to stayfor a while.

Speaker 3 (17:05):
I think so too, At least four years.

Speaker 2 (17:07):
Right, at least four years You've got to look at it
that way, but I think it'sactually going to stay for quite
a while.

Speaker 3 (17:16):
Do you think we can actually replicate though?
Because I mean, obviously theUnited States is a very big
customer.
I mean, so a lot of people arelooking at things and saying, oh
yeah, well, we can be our owncustomer, but I mean we can't
really, because I mean we'resuch we're 10% of what they are.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Right, we are, we are , but I mean Europe is 400
million people.
No, they're more.
Yes, and Canada now has a freetrade agreement with Europe.
It's not yet been ratified byall countries but it's in force,
so you know you can sell yourgoods virtually tariff or import
duty free to Europe.
Now, it's work and effort andyou know it is a bunch of
countries and a bunch ofdifferent languages and all of
those kinds of things.

(17:57):
But I do think, whether it's thefeds or whether it's the
province, do need to providesome support for businesses to
explore some of those newmarkets, and they may have
always for Europe, but it'salways been easier just to go to
the US.
You know I can take a flight toBoston and I'm in there, you
know, whatever it is an hour anda half, an hour and 20 minutes.
So you know it's easier to dothat than it is to go to some of

(18:18):
those other markets.
But you know, at one point inmy career I was selling products
in Europe or other marketsbecause people wanted a unique
different product Was that whenyou were selling beer, I was
selling beer Not only drinkingbeer, but selling beer.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
We both did yeah, yeah, so you had a time with
Moosehead doing that.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
I did, yeah, really cool.
Yeah, no, it was really good.
I mean, we launched beer andyou were their international
director for marketing, weren'tyou?

Speaker 1 (18:42):
I was yeah, yeah, yeah.
So we launched beer.

Speaker 3 (18:44):
Sounds like a pretty good gig, it was a pretty good
gig.

Speaker 2 (18:46):
yeah, yeah.
Launched beer in Sweden,finland, Norway, launched it in
the UK three times, which isactually not a good thing
launching a product three times.
Yeah, okay, Not taken, nottaken Well it kind of means you
failed the first two.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
But anyway, did you get any first-hand impressions
of beer, a Canadian beer, fromFinland or from any of these
other countries where peoplegave you their first impressions
of a Canadian beer?

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Well, I mean they liked the beer.
I mean by the time I left, wewere the seventh best-selling
imported beer in the country ofSweden.
Cool.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
Moosehead is pretty well respected.
I mean, they're if they, ifthey aren't if they aren't the
largest, they're one of thelargest independent breweries in
this country.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
They are the largest private brewery.

Speaker 3 (19:29):
They are the largest, for sure I remember I went, uh,
when I was in Germany and I wasin Cologne, germany, which, uh,
they have, they have a littlebit of with Kolsch beer.
It only can be made within thewalls of Cologne.
And so I was sitting in thisbeer garden and the guy who was
there asked me who was servingbeer, asked me where are you

(19:50):
guys from?
It's like, oh well, from NovaScotia, Canada, and he's like
Canada.
He's like I love Canada.
He goes.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Moosehead beer and he put the big antlers up on there
and he's like.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
I love Moosehead beer .
That's great.
Yeah, that's great, and so is.

Speaker 3 (20:03):
Germany, which is like you know, they have laws
like truly laws on beer.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
So they love their beer?
Yeah, they do.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
And they really liked it.
So it's kind of cool yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
No, it's good beer.
There's a lot of good beers, ofcourse.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
You did a lot of my favorite things, so you sold you
were with Zipatico.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yes, that's true.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
I mean the boomer generation will know Zipatico as
the Internet email address thatthey'll never get rid of.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
No matter what, they'll carry it with them.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
So, geez, so you were doing something mobile on the
Zipatico side.
What was that?

Speaker 2 (20:36):
I was so yeah, so that was just when.
Well, we all had BlackBerrysback then.
There were no iPhones.
Well, we all had Blackberriesback then.
There were no iPhones.
Iphones were just starting andwe were trying to sell
advertising.
So Simpatico was an advertisingvehicle.
It was a way for people to postan ad and they got paid for the

(20:57):
ads, transitioning sort oftraditional media to digital
media, and I was tasked withfiguring out how to get ads on
mobile devices.
Now the reality was it was aninteresting time and I still
remember I should have boughtApple stock then, had I realized
.
But I remember we got a reportback and you could access the

(21:21):
Internet on your BlackBerry.
You could access the Interneton your Apple phone or your
iPhone at the time, and I don'tremember the numbers, but it was

(21:42):
something like people were1,000 times more likely to spend
time on the Internet, on theiPhone, than they were on the
BlackBerry, and I should havethought then, you know they got
something going on, you know,and BlackBerry simply doesn't.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Just because it was too hard.
That was the BlackBerry.
I mean, I remember having aBlackBerry and you could not
really use the internet verywell.
No, no, no, it was an amazingmail device.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
But that was pretty much it.
Yeah, 100% yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
I make the joke all the time.
When people say like, oh, Ifinally got an iPhone, I say
welcome to being an adult.

Speaker 2 (22:06):
Right, yes, yes.
Well, I don't know if you saythat my 11-year-old
granddaughter just got an iPhone, so I don't know, Is that too
frightening?

Speaker 1 (22:13):
Jane's changed a day Gracie's 13, and she's two years
into her iPhone.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Right, yes, exactly, yeah, I just the Blackberry I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
Did you ever see that Blackberry movie?
That they did.
Yes, it was a great moviePretty fun it was done by CBC.
It was Jeepers it had.

Speaker 3 (22:32):
Like a documentary.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
you mean it had that, jay Burchell, I'm going to say
his name incorrectly JayBurchell.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
It's a fantastic show .

Speaker 3 (22:42):
I don't know if I've seen it.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, it was the story.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
The TV took it and they broke it down into a
documentary in three or fourparts, but it was a movie first.
It was a real fun watch andit's just about the guys.
It's kind of goofy but it's alot of fun.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
The Jim Balsillie?
Yes, exactly, exactly.
It was interesting guy becausehe was going up against the
Jogging.
I'm a Leafs fan and he wasgoing up against the Maple Leafs
because he wanted to bring amarket.
He wanted to bring a marketinto their market and he was
really trying to get that teamin.
Hamilton and Maple Leafsentertainment was not letting

(23:14):
that happen.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
Yeah, you're absolutely right, it was yeah,
but he managed to.
You know he did okay, let's putit that way, he did fine.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
You've got to do a few fun things, because then I
looked further into yourLinkedIn and then I was like I
was surprised because I actuallynever looked at your resume on
LinkedIn before until today.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
So I mean I was still like wow.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
And then the president of Workopolis,
Workopolis.

Speaker 3 (23:41):
Workopolis yes, you were not a user.
No, okay.
No, he just says names wrong,oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yes, Workopolis, it was kind of interesting.
I was in beer for quite a while, ended up in Ontario with
Moosehead Breweries running thenational operation, the sale of
Moosehead across the country.
We were only launching acrossthe country at that point.
Again back to yourinterprovincial trade barriers

(24:10):
and, left there, joined a smallcraft brewer called the Upper
Canada Brewing Company, whichwas ultimately acquired by
Sleeman.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
So kind of determined at that point that my life in
beer was coming to an end andended up working for Indigo
Books.
So a bookstore I saw that yeah,we saw that and was the first
general manager of Indigoca.
So was the general manager thefellow that launched Indigoca.
Obviously, there were folksthat had the idea.
I just executed but sort ofmade it happen and that was

(24:41):
pretty amazing and thenultimately got into left there
and went to a small businesswhich was an online city guide.
So again, back in those days,you know, there wasn't as much
sort of hotel, you knowinformation.
So we were building websitesfor people with hotels.
Sorry, just turning off thisphone thing here, Maybe I can't,

(25:06):
oh well, Anyway, you know wewere building websites for
people who had hotels andrestaurants and all that sort of
thing and then we would putthem on our site.
So that was all fun, Did thatfor a while.
That was owned by Simpatico andthe Toronto Star, which was,
you know, at that point, thelargest newspaper in Canada.

(25:27):
So I was with them for a coupleof years.
Then they asked me to move overto Workopolis.
So in 2003, I went to aspresident of Workopolis.
So what Workopolis was, wasbasically a job site.
So we had hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of jobs on
the website and people wouldpost their resumes.

(25:49):
We had three to four millionvisitors a month who came and
looked for jobs and sent theirresumes to the employers that
were on the site.
So it was a pretty amazingthing and I was there from 2003
to 2009.
And that was owned by theToronto Star, the Globe and Mail
and La Presse, so threenewspaper companies.

(26:12):
It was an amazing time.
Now again, this is history, Isuppose.
But you know, every month Iwould meet with the publisher of
the Globe and Mail and we woulddiscuss the business and he
would tell me a little bit aboutwhat was going on in the
newspaper business.
It was a fascinating time asnewspapers and we would discuss
the business and he would tellme a little bit about what was

(26:32):
going on in the newspaperbusiness.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
It was a fascinating time as newspapers were evolving
and trying to kind of move fromprint to digital.
So anyway, it was a reallyinteresting time.
That was amazing, yeah.
And then, yeah, you certainlybuilt up your resume to get to
the Chamber.
Well, I guess so.
Yeah, that's a part of theexperience, I guess.
So, I guess so.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
Yeah, that's a part of the experience, I guess.
So, I guess.
So, yeah, well, you know, Imean maybe I would say that the
best part of my background is,you know, for most of my career
I've kind of been a marketingguy.
So you know, with a marketingview, you need to kind of listen
to the customer.
You need to listen to what thecustomer is saying.
You need to understand what thecustomer is saying.
You need to give them what theywant, and I think that kind of

(27:04):
helps me to understand what Ineed to do every day.
You know we need to support ourmembers.
We need to engage our members,we need to prove value to our
members.
Those are all the things thatyou know we as a chamber, you
know need to do.
But I've had a lot of jobs.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
You know?
I mean you know, maybe it wouldhave been better to have one
job for 35 years, but you know,I've had many, many, many jobs.
It probably is yeah, and youdid tourism.
Was it tourism PEL or tourismTourism Nova Scotia?

Speaker 2 (27:33):
So I was living in Ontario and then came back here
in 2012 as the CEO of what wasthen, well, what ultimately
became the Nova Scotia TourismAgency, and then kind of did my
time, if you will, in governmentfor about three years and then
got back to the private sectorWicked.

Speaker 3 (27:50):
Are you originally from here?
Originally from here?
Yeah, fairview, fairview.
Okay, there you go.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Not too far away from Fairview right now.
No, that's probably true.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
No, my father was in the army, so we traveled around
a bit, but I ended up back hereand grade eight, I think.

Speaker 3 (28:05):
Okay, so consider certainly, halifax is my, is my
home yeah and say, I mean, withall this collective experience,
I mean coming back here, how andhow do you end up being on the,
the Chamber of Commerce ofHalifax?
Because I mean obviously getlots, lots of experience.
It was easy to sell yourself interms of like, hey, I know how
to do this kind of thing, likebecause I know a lot about

(28:26):
different you, different avenuesof business.
But do you get tapped on theshoulder?
Do you apply for that?
Do they put a listing up onWorkopolis?

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah, no, I don't think they did, but it was
available, so the job wasavailable.
The previous CEO, valerie Payne, had announced she was leaving.
She had been there 28 years.

Speaker 3 (28:45):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
So a really long time .
And they you know they postedthe job and there were many,
many good applicants and I waslucky enough to get the job.
That's awesome.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
And we'll be doing that again soon.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
Yeah, yeah, all right .

Speaker 1 (28:59):
I'm getting my resume ready.
Okay, so the chamber now.
So it was nine years.
It'll be nine years in JuneIt'll be nine years.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
So we're coming up and then by the time I finally
go it'll be nine and a half orso, so I mean getting you guys
through a pandemic.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yeah, what was that like?
I mean, it's been a gamechanger.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
You've seen a lot.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
You've seen the internet go from dial-up to what
it is now You've seenWorkopolis, which was a little
bit of a tough site to navigateat one point, turned into a
great site and so yeah, what?
Do you think now?

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Well, I mean, look COVID, Go back to COVID.
I mean, COVID was tough foreverybody.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
You know.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
None of us knew what it was at the beginning.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
I mean we can kind of look back now and say, well,
there's.
You know, there were still 32cases of COVID last week in Nova
Scotia.
Not that I'm trying to panicanybody, yeah, um, but I mean,
nobody reports it anymore.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
So so, goodness knows if there were, if there were
more, but um, and I don't thinkthat you know, the version of
COVID that we have is is too badright now and they know how to
treat it and all those kinds ofthings, but but clearly then no
one knew what it was.
Uh, so, yeah, I mean we, youknow, I, I guess you know I'm
going to go back a step, whichis I was in Toronto and I was
running this website calledTorontocom, which was this

(30:11):
online city guide for hotels andrestaurants when SARS was there
.

Speaker 1 (30:14):
I don't know.
Oh yeah, the SARS outbreak,yeah.
So Rolling Stones at theconcert.
Exactly, I was there, I wasthere.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
That was a great one it was a great event, but you
know SARS was happening and youknow we had a business that was
selling people websites forhotels and restaurants.
Not a great business to be inwhen.
Sars was happening.
I've got to be honest, but theone thing I learned was you need

(30:42):
information right when you're abusiness owner when we were
building websites.
You need to know what SARS is,you need to know when it's going
to be over, you need to knowwhat you can do, you need to
kind of get messaging out topeople, all of those kinds of
things.
So I remembered that and COVIDhit and sitting on my couch on a
Sunday night I think it wasprobably the 15th of March on

(31:04):
Sunday night and I thought youknow what I remember SARS.
I remember we need information,we need to gather a group of
people together.
So I wrote to um you know thedeputy minister for the
department of business and thedeputy minister of that, the
deputy minister of this um andsaid you should join me on a
call um tomorrow or Tuesday Ithink it was Tuesday and we

(31:25):
should talk about what's goingon.
Also invited the ConstructionAssociation you know the Tourism
Industry Association of NovaScotia, our tie-ins, so sort of
four or five or going on.
So we would sometimes get alittle bit of advanced

(31:57):
information.
You know it was a time whenbusinesses were looking for
support.
You know, I remember being on acall.
By that time it had morphedinto rather than just six people
, we were 10, 12, 15, 25, 30.
I mean, in the end we hadalmost 300 people that were
joining this call.
Originally it was twice, threetimes, four times a week, then

(32:17):
it was twice a week and we kindof maintained twice a week for
almost the entire COVID pandemic.
And I remember a time we had adeputy minister on and he's
saying OK, here's what theprogram is going to be for local
businesses.
We're going to do this to helpyou support your mortgage or
whatever it is.
And he said it'll be forbusinesses that are five
employees or more.
And we said whoa, whoa, whoa,whoa.

(32:38):
You know it can't be for fiveemployees or more because there
are businesses that have threeemployees or businesses that
have two employees, you can't dothat, anyway.
Employees or businesses thathave two employees, you can't do
that anyway.
Okay, well, we'll take thataway.
The call started at 12 o'clock.
By 12 40 they were back andthey said okay, you're right,
we're going to make it twoemployees or more, you know.
So, thankfully, you know,businesses were able to be

(32:58):
supported.
We were giving immediate,almost real-time feedback to
government officials, and thatincluded, you know, we're kind
of back to the, the seniorpolitical people, I suppose, or
the, the federal folks.
I mean, we had melanie jolie onthere we had, uh, you know, we
had all sorts of folks.
Uh, we had christopher freeland, we had all sorts of people on

(33:18):
that call to kind of update us,and then we would take that
information and we woulddistribute that information to
our members or to anybody else.
So we'd send that out to the300 people that were on the call
and many of those people justcut and paste and just sent that
on to their members.
So we were covering almost280,000 people who worked in the
province of.

(33:38):
Nova Scotia with these calls andwith this information, and we
were frankly trying to get theinformation out faster than
anybody else could.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
That was kind of our goal, yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
So you know, dr Strang and Premier McNeil would
have a call at 2 o'clock, by2.30, they'd end the call and by
quarter to 3, we'd be sendingout an email with here's the
update and here's what you cando and here's what you can't do.
And people loved it because itwas easy to understand.
It was helpful.
They were able to pass it on totheir employees.
It was, it was.

(34:09):
It was a very difficult time,obviously but, it was a but it
was an important time for peopleto kind of learn the value of
the chamber.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
But you know, and I honestly like so, yeah, you were
a very you guys were a veryimportant part of really what
Nova Scotia, like Nova Scotiashowed up.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah, absolutely Right yeah.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
Like they, we outperformed most of North
America.
We did, and you know, I thinkpeople you know was everything
perfect?
No, but you know, no one'sreally lived through this type
of thing.
You know, this type of we'vehad pandemics before, but they
were before planes and boatswere so accessible that everyone
was taking them Right.
Planes and boats were soaccessible that everyone was

(34:47):
taking them right.
You had to be all like uberrich, right?
Yeah, so this was a new thingreally in our history yeah uh.
So I think, um, the fact thatyou know you could kind of you
kind of took the reins is, yeah,pretty important, right, and
sars was not in really that muchdifferent.
It just it was, it was shorter.
Well, I mean I mean the actuallike uh virus virus was not any

(35:10):
different.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
No, it wasn't really.
It was a similar virus and itwas again something that people
didn't know about.
I mean, toronto was shunned bya lot of folks at that point
because no one wanted to go toToronto where SARS was happening
at the time.
In the end it wasn't as big adeal, but it was still a very,
very difficult time forbusinesses in Toronto.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
Yeah, no, but you might as well have had leprosy.

Speaker 2 (35:33):
Right, right, I remember it very well.
Yeah so, yeah, yeah, it wasdifficult, yeah, yeah, so good
experience taking that toHalifax, yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
Yeah, Moving forward.
How do you think businesses aredoing now?
How have they bounced back inHalifax?

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, I'd say a lot of businesses have bounced back
pretty well.
I mean, you know, the federalgovernment did provide great
support for businesses at thetime.
I mean one might argue now, wasit a little over, you know, was
it a little too much?
I don't think it could have beentoo much, because I think a lot
of businesses were able to comeout very well at the end of

(36:10):
COVID with, you know, theinformation, the support that
they needed and were able tokeep selling and keep delivering
their products.
So you know, in the end I thinkit was really good.
Hospitality and tourism notquite as good right Although
people have come back and peopledid start to come back in a big
way to Nova Scotia.
Not quite as much right now.

(36:32):
You know slightly down, I meanvery tiny numbers, small
percentages, but you knowthey're going to other places,
they're looking at other thingsand tourism and hospitality is
still having a bit of a hardtime.

Speaker 3 (36:44):
That's a constant fight, though it is a constant
fight.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
It's a tough business .

Speaker 3 (36:47):
It really is bit of a hard time.
That's a constant fight, thoughit is a constant fight.
It's a tough business.
You have to basically beconstantly, yeah, tugging on
people's emotions and showingthem wow, I want to be there.
Yeah, like all the time.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
Yeah you do, you do and you know, and costs continue
to go up.
I mean, costs have really goneup.
You know, for food and for.
You know, maybe not so much foralcohol, but certainly for food
, um, you know for consumables,all of those kinds of things you
know, maybe not so much foralcohol, but certainly for food,
you know for consumables, allof those kinds of things.
You know that a restaurant or ahotel depends on.
Labor costs have gone upsignificantly as well.
So you know it's been a tough,tough time for many of those

(37:19):
businesses and they're stillcoming out of it.
You know here we are, you knowin where are we in the middle of
April?
you know, and I can tell youthat folks that are in the
tourism and hospitality businessare anxiously looking for the
sun.
And that slightly warmerweather so that people can get
out.
Having said that, you've got apretty busy place here today.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
It's a Tuesday.
We were shocked.
It's a great spot.
Yeah, yeah, this is an awesomespot for sure.
And today was a little morepacked than we were used to,
because we were used to findinga table.

Speaker 3 (37:51):
And I was like, oh no , where are we going to
interview Speaking of the costand stuff like that?
How much are you guys, as thechamber, included into the chats
about increase of minimum wage?

Speaker 2 (38:02):
Because that's obviously a big thing it's going
up twice this year right, it isgoing up twice this year.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
Your members probably feel a certain way about it,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
I mean there is a group that provides advice on
minimum wage and it does havebusiness people, it has labor
folks from the labor federations.
On that group as well I willsay we probably you know, of our
2,000 members I wouldn't saythe largest proportion pay

(38:29):
minimum wage.

Speaker 1 (38:30):
Right.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
You know most folks are paying a little bit more
than that.
So, but I mean we still providefeedback, we still get asked an
opinion and we still conveyinformation.
So we're sometimes asked forsurveys and that sort of thing
by government and we'll provideour surveys and our feedback.

(38:56):
You know the two increases thisyear.
You know, what I think peoplecare about most is money in
their pocket.
Yes, so minimum wage isimportant, but Nova Scotia, up
until very recently, has beenthe highest tax province in
Canada, and that means at everylevel.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
So for folks who are making you know sort of minimum
wage, right up to folks who aremaking an awful lot more money,
Right.
So you know if Nova Scotia alsohad the lowest basic personal
exemption.
So the basic personal exemptionfor Nova Scotians was around
$8,500.

(39:31):
And the basic personalexemption for folks federally
was $15,000.
So Nova Scotians were paying alot more tax, even at the lowest
level, that's changed recently.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
It has changed recently.
It is up to $11,500.
So it's up to $11,500.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
So that's changed recently.
It has changed recently.
It is up to $11,500.
So it's up to $11,500.
So that's a positive.
But again, you know, businessesare providing more money for
employees.
Maybe it's time the governmentstepped up to the plate, and
they have stepped up a littlebit by moving to $11,500.
But again, many other provincesin Canada are close to that

(40:09):
$15,000 level and that would putmore money in people's pockets,
which is what the mostimportant thing is.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
I think that's really important is that?
Because what happens when youhave these political things
where you say, like I'm going tomove up middle, you know, I'm
going to move up minimum wage.
I'm not advocating against itor anything, I'm just saying
that when to move up minimumwage, I'm not advocating against
it or anything, I'm just sayingthat when you move up minimum
wage, uh, the person who'smaking minimum wage is happy
because they get more money.
But the person who's payingthat minimum wage now knows,
okay, well, my cost just gothigher and therefore I'm not

(40:40):
gonna like, I'm not, I, I needto raise my prices to keep up
with that and all that stuff.
So, in order to make everybodyhappy, the only way to do it is
to keep up with that and allthat stuff.
So, in order to make everybodyhappy, the only way to do it is
to lower taxes.
I think it's that all, like therising tides, float all boats.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
Again, you know there's a lot of things you
could do.
I mean, taxes is one of them,and whether that's federally or
provincially because there seemsto be a lot of parties that are
talking right now about lowertaxes yes, in, you know, in the
federal election, which seemslike a pretty good idea as well,
it does mean that there'll beless spending, but you know
that's something that weprobably need to think about.
Yeah, so you know that's oneway to do it.

(41:19):
You know HST.
You know that has just beenlowered as well from 15% to 14%.
That's a good thing.
So there's a few things wecould do to help folks, because
part of the problem.
Sorry, just to finish but partof the problem is it's not only

(41:39):
when you raise somebody.
If you're moving somebody'sminimum wage up 50 cents, often
the guy who's making $1.50 morehas to also move up 50 cents.
So it's not only the folk at theminimum wage level, it's the
person who's making $1.50 morehas to also move up 50 cents.
So it's not only the folk atthe minimum wage level, it's the
person who's kind of that nexttier as well is going to see his
salary go up or at least askfor that raise.

Speaker 3 (41:56):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say too, yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
So I think there's also a good time now to push for
small business, and the reasonI think that is just you know we
have, with the technologythey're developing right now,
jobs are going to go away Right.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
I mean, and change, they're going to change, they're
going to change and some willgo away inevitably too Right.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
I think small business will help kind of
foster more creativity, moreoffice for people in the world.
Like, how do you see that?
Or do you see, how are wegetting behind small businesses
now with the chamber to reallyhelp them survive?
Yeah, because they're having ahard time.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah, I mean they're having a hard time, but you know
it kind of again, I would sortof categorize people in certain
areas.
Sure yeah, so I mean, you know,I would sort of think of it
industry by industry you, someindustries, are having a harder
time than others.
I mean, if you're in the AIspace or if you're in the
technology space, you're nothaving too bad a time.

Speaker 1 (42:49):
You're having a good time, I mean that's not too bad.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
So you know, people do need to think about ways to
do things differently, and youknow.
I probably wouldn't argue thatjobs are going to go away.
Clearly there are some jobsthat are going to get better,
but I mean we have the lowestproductivity in Nova Scotia of
any of the provinces or statesin North America, so we're at
the bottom of the pile.
Our productivity is lower thanMissouri or Alabama.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
How's productivity measured?

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Gross domestic product per capita.
So when you think of it thatway.
So I mean, what's AI going todo?

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Is.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
AI going to lose a job, or is someone going to be
able to become more productive?
When are we going to actuallyput this recording out?
Should I ask that?
Yeah, sure.
Yeah, I think it's going tocome out in the beginning of May
.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Okay, well, so I'm giving a speech tomorrow night,
so I just I didn't want to tellthem before I gave the speech
that I'm using.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
I'm using chat GPT to help write the speech, you know
because it because?
I am, and, and it's going tomake it a.
It's going to make it a betterspeech.
It's going to make me able todevelop that speech much more
quickly, so I'm going to be moreproductive yeah so, you know, I
think there's going to be someenhancements that are going to
allow people to become moreproductive, produce more stuff,
sell more stuff, make more moneyfor the business or for

(44:12):
themselves.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (44:14):
It's optimistic.
I hope you're right.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
I'm an optimist.

Speaker 3 (44:18):
We went to Volta Labs for an AI kind of seminar one
evening, and the thing that Iwas really fascinated with was
this one particular company wasgoing to be trying to turn the
long haul trucking into a nineto five job, and the idea is
that not to eliminate jobs butto make it so that you know if

(44:39):
you're a dad and or a mom andyou are long haul trucking,
you're going to be gone for twoweeks at a time sometimes and
you miss your kids, you missyour family, your way whatever,
and I mean for some peoplethat's fine, but for some people
it's not, and so their kind ofconcept that they were doing is
like, if we don't eliminatetheir jobs but make it nine to

(45:00):
five, they can go home to theirfamilies every night and still
have jobs.
So the idea was that on ourhighways, self-driving trucks
are going all the time on thehighways and they end up in
these hubs where truckers arethen collecting it, and then
they're the ones doing thedeliveries within the cities.

Speaker 2 (45:17):
Oh right, yeah, and I thought that was brilliant.
Yeah, it is Right.

Speaker 3 (45:20):
We could literally have something going, like you
know, if you get to sendsomething out, you know Toronto
to drive it straight.
It was only like 15, 16 hoursif you could drive it straight,
but you get tired, and all thisif you get to take breaks.
If you didn't have to, we couldliterally get something to
Toronto in 15 hours 16 hours.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Yeah, absolutely, and I mean there's a great example,
because there's not enoughpeople in the trucking industry.

Speaker 3 (45:42):
That's another problem.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
They're short people and need more people to drive
trucks because, for some of thereasons you mentioned, people
may not be enthusiastic aboutbeing away for three or four or
five days, or whatever ithappens to be to kind of get to
Toronto and back round trip.

Speaker 3 (45:58):
So that's where I think AI is going to help a lot
of industries, and I love thefact that people who are
developing this technology arethinking we don't want to put
people out of work, right, Ilove that, yeah, absolutely Well
, and I think you've got toagain.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
You know, you have to look at it as the advantage.
What did somebody say to me theother day?
Oh, people are going to losejobs to AI.
You know, am I going to lose myjob to AI?
You're not going to lose yourjob to AI, but you may lose your
job if you're not using AI andsomebody else, is that's true so
?
You know.
I mean, we need to think aboutit.
You know a lot more and indifferent ways.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
We use AI a ton.
We use it for this podcast, ohreally.
We use it for our Christmasspecial heavily.
Okay, enough said, if youlisten to it and if you suffer
through it, you'll understand.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
And yeah, but it is.
If you suffer through it,you'll understand, but it is.
Ai is becoming a huge componentof my life.

Speaker 3 (46:49):
As a creative person who likes making creative things
.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
It's like all of a sudden being a director and just
being able to create somethingalmost instantaneously from the
labor that was involved increating something previously.
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Absolutely.
I mean, you know, I was talkingto somebody today and they said
, oh my goodness, my emailsnever stop.
My emails never stop.
Listen, I remember a time andit sounds terrible.
You know, it sounds like theold guy, you know, here's the
old guy.
I remember a time when I couldget three documents out a day.
Wow them.
I then had to hand them tosomebody else who typed them,

(47:28):
and then they handed them backto me for corrections.
I then handed them back to them, they corrected them and then,
finally, at the end of the daythey went out, and now I get 150
emails a day.
I mean we're clearly moreproductive.
We're taking advantage of someof the technologies, and that's
a simple technology, but there'smuch more to do.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
I think in the end, people are still going to value
relationships oh because you'renot going to be loyal to a
computer, right, like, yeah, II've said this probably many
times before, but it's likepeople remember how you made
them feel right and a computeris not going to make me feel any
particular way other than likeis the job done, I guess you saw
that movie, though, right withthe uh guy that fell in love

(48:11):
with his scarlett johansson yeahthe circle the

Speaker 2 (48:16):
circle or no?
No, that was a different one.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
Forget it either way but yes, yeah, I know what you
mean, but yeah, so that's thething.
People value relationships.
So I think, as long as you havethat human element where people
are like, no, I want to, youknow, it's like people might've
joined the chamber because ofthe things that you guys are
doing and the relationships thatthey're building, right, so
they, they want to show up tothat community.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
Yeah, right it was just simply a directory.

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Yeah, maybe they see value in it, maybe they don't
Right, yeah, yeah, so it's alittle different.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Can I reflect for a minute?
while you say that, I mean youknow, as I'm getting to the end
of my you know I'm not there yet, you know, and I'm still there
every day.
But you know, as I look back, Imean some of the things, I kind
of look and say I wish I hadactually kept some of those
relationships, you know, for thepeople that I was working with

(49:06):
10, 20, 30, 40 years ago.
And I certainly have some ofthose relationships.
But networking and valuing someof those relationships can go a
long way.
Thinking back to the peoplethat I went to school with,
thinking back to the people thatI met early in my career some
of those people are seniorexecutives now, some of them may
be retired now, but I kind oflike to know what they're doing

(49:29):
and I bet I could have had sortof maybe it's more fun, maybe
it's more opportunities todevelop some of the businesses
that I had had.
I stayed in touch with some ofthose people.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
Anyway, sorry, you've made me reflective.
No, I think that's great.
It's good.
So what made you decide?
Now is the time to call itquits.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Oh gosh, that's a good question.
You know well I have children.
My children are older and moremature and they have children
now.
So you know my son is inToronto.
He travels a lot.
His wife travels a lot.
You know I'd like to go toToronto for two.
You know my son is in Toronto.
He travels a lot, his wifetravels a lot.
You know I'd like to go toToronto for two, three weeks.
Help them take care of thefive-year-old and the

(50:15):
three-year-old.
If they'd like to have me come.
But they seem enthusiastic aboutit.
So, you know, my wife and Icould take the opportunity and
we could do that.
I'd like to travel a little bitmore, see some of the sites
that I haven't seen yet, and soI think those are some of the
things I'd like to do, and Ithink I'd like to do something

(50:37):
else, not that I'm racing toanother job, because I'm not,
but I'd like to do some projectstuff.
Start a podcast Maybe not.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
No, no, I've got to leave it to the experts, but if
maybe one of you is off one dayyou know that would that there
you go we're calling us up, allright okay um, yeah, so I mean
contract worker.

Speaker 2 (50:58):
you know some of those kinds of things I think
I'd I'd be anxious to to help,uh, some of the folks that I,
that I work with now, some ofthe businesses that that I've
grown to know, um to know, overthe last 10 years or longer in
this community, and help themout it sounds like you're at a
point in your life where youjust want to be able to each day

(51:21):
pick and choose what you wantto do with your life.
Well, for sure, I think that'spartly it.
But if you looked at my resumeyou've seen I've had way too
many jobs, that's a very goodname for your memoir, your book
when You're Done, that's right.

Speaker 1 (51:35):
way too many jobs.

Speaker 2 (51:37):
This is the job I've had longest in my entire career,
so I am someone who movesaround a little bit and perhaps
craves a little bit the factthat I need to think a little
bit more and I need to bechallenged a little bit more.
Not that this isn't a challenge, because it's a challenge every

(51:59):
single day, but learningsomething new.
That's actually what I've lovedabout this job most is I get to
meet businesses and I get tolearn about their business.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
You get the challenges of every business
model imaginable.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
I do, and that's amazing for me.
We kind of learn a little bitof that, we're in commercial
insurance right.
So that's one of the thingsthat I really liked about it was
that we get to talk toentrepreneurs every day and find
out what they do.
You get to see a little bit howit's made and things like that.
Right, the, the, the.
You get to see a little bit howit's made and things like that

(52:31):
right yeah, so I I get that verymuch about how interesting that
could be.
Yeah, but I also, I, I get it.
You get a bit of an itch.
Yeah, um, you know, I uh, youknow, mike and I created this
thing and we're doing this kindof like on the side and stuff
like that, for because we werelike ah, we want to have
something of our own and kind ofscratch an itch.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yeah yeah, no, absolutely.
I mean as well.
My wife and I have raised CNIBpuppies, so for the.
Canadian National Institute forthe Blind.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
Wow Four puppies over the last five or six.
I donate to them every month.
Oh, there you go.
That's wonderful, that's great,that's wonderful.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
So I can show you pictures of some of the dogs he
raised.
Those dollars are going to gooduse.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
We don't get paid.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
But you know I'm happy to get up at 5 o'clock in
the morning with that dog andtake them out and help to train
them.
And we've luckily had two ofthe four dogs that we've had who
were successful and becameguide dogs, two of them not
quite as successful but, stillgreat dogs.
We have one, you know.
They were kind enough to giveone back, so we actually got.

(53:33):
Well, yeah, so we had we haveone now that we got back, and
then we have our own dog.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
It's an amazing program.
It is a great program.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
For great program for people who you know need the
need that service dog to helpthem with mobility and to kind
of have a successful life.

Speaker 3 (53:51):
Yeah, awesome, that's really cool.
There you go.
There's something that welearned that we couldn't
research on you.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Yeah, well, maybe I should put that in there.
But yes, you're right, that'svery good.
Well again, when you don't getpaid, you don't put it on
LinkedIn, fair enough.

Speaker 3 (54:12):
Well, you know, know, volunteer work, that's true,
volunteer work absolutely isvery important, it does matter,
it does absolutely great on abusiness resume.
I know me personally, uh, whenI was in my mid-20s and I was
trying to break through into youknow the business world and
develop my network and thingslike that, um, and you know,
when I was struggling to do that, uh, I actually where it kind
of clicked and where it turnedaround for me was doing
volunteer work, sitting onboards and doing some other

(54:34):
things.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right.
I sit on the Dalhousie Schoolof Management advisory board and
I'm the chair of the TELUSAtlantic Community Foundation,
which is a group that gives awaymoney.
So it's kind of a nice board tosort of charities and

(54:54):
not-for-profits who are seekingsupport to assist with children,
you know, with a bit of giventhat it's TELUS, a bit of a
technology view and that sort ofthing as well.
So, yeah, it's a great, that'sa great initiative.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
It's something that I honestly, when I have young
people who are working and theysay, like you know, I'm trying
to build my network, I alwayssay volunteer.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Yeah, absolutely right.
No, you're absolutely rightyeah.

Speaker 3 (55:22):
So how does somebody get more involved with the
chamber Outside of becoming amember?
Yeah, like what can people doWell first with the chamber
outside of becoming a member?
Yeah, like what, what canpeople do well first?
They want to become a member.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Of course that's very important uh, but, but after
you become a member, uh, I mean,we're, we're always looking for
folks, um, I mean, we have anadvisory uh committee.
Um, next week, we have somebodycoming to talk to us uh, about,
uh, the federal election, whotends to be a bit of an, uh, an
election organizer.
So I'm, I, so I'm anxious tohear him speak at that point,
because we'll be past thedebates which are taking place

(55:56):
over the next, yeah, this week.
So that'll be fun.
There's a member right there,right behind us.
Oh, there you go.
So, yeah, so we're sorry, Ilost my train of thought when I
saw a member.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
I got so excited and you know I've seen him at every
event.
He's that.
Yeah, will Brewer, will.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
Brewer right there.
Yeah, okay, cool, yeah, yeah,yeah.
So last Chamber event I think Imet him.
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so how?
So?
How do you get involved?
How do you get involved?

Speaker 2 (56:25):
So, advisory group.
You can become an ambassador.
Just coming to chamber events.
You know we have a businessafter harvest tomorrow night.
I think it's sold out, actuallyat Southwest Properties That'll
be.
I think there's 75 peoplecoming to that.
Awesome, that's a good.
You know that'll be a goodevent at the Canard, so that's
kind of an interestingopportunity for us to view

(56:47):
what's going on down there.
We have Pints and Pointersgoing on next week.
You know there'll be somelearning that'll happen there.
You know there's lots of greatevents, educational
opportunities.
You know folks can taketraining programs.
You know we had a greattraining program on artificial
intelligence led by the folksfrom Simplicity, who did a

(57:08):
really great job, sort ofarticulating what you can
actually do.
If you're a marketer, use thesethings.
If you're a manufacturer, dothese things.
And it was very specific tospecific artificial intelligence
packages, which I found reallyreally helpful.
You know that kind of thing.
And then of course, there's theadvocacy side.
You know that kind of thing andthen of course there's the

(57:31):
advocacy side.

Speaker 3 (57:31):
So you know we're we're always anxious to get
feedback and get information sothat we can take that
information and and then speakto to folks in government would
you say that that's the biggestthing, because when someone's
sitting there and they'relooking at the membership and
it's like I think it's fivehundred dollars, it kind of
depends.
It kind of depends, I mean, itstarts there.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Yeah, I mean for not not-for-profits.
It's much less than that abouthalf of that.
But yeah, it'll be sort of $300to $400 to kind of get in there
.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
So would you find that that is the most like
valuable thing that you couldtake as the advocacy Like what
are the features to it if youhad to sell it to somebody?

Speaker 2 (58:15):
Yeah, I mean it kind of depends on the business you
are.
So you know, if you're abusiness of three or four or
five, you may be more concernedabout the cost savings that we
offer through affinity programs.
You may be more concerned aboutthe chamber benefit plan, which
provides you with, you know,dental or physio and all that
kind of stuff at a veryreasonable cost because it's
shared kind of across 34,000companies across the country.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
That's kind of good for those solopreneurs.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
It is really really good and we have over 700
companies that take advantage ofthat.
So if you're a smaller business, you tend to be more concerned
a little bit with the costsavings and the educational
improvements.
As you get a little bit bigger,you tend to be a little bit
more concerned about some of theadvocacy things.

Speaker 3 (58:52):
Right.

Speaker 2 (58:53):
That tends to be the way it kind of works.
I mean, you know, certainlysmall businesses are concerned
about advocacy, they'reconcerned about minimum wage,
they're concerned about taxrates, they're concerned about
those kinds of things.
But you know, as you get to taxrates and that sort of stuff,
it tends to be slightly biggerbusinesses that are a little
more concerned.
You know.
You know, cpp is increasing,you know that's right they would

(59:14):
like to you know biggerbusinesses are going to face a
bigger impact than a smallerbusiness.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
You know, although proportionally maybe, you know,
I think it's a good time to getto our 10 questions.
What do you think?
Oh gosh, 10 questions.
So I think I got six writtendown, but we'll make up the
other four.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
Yeah, there we go.
How's that?

Speaker 1 (59:32):
sound.
Okay, we were running latetoday.
But first, before we do that, Ijust do want to say cheers to
you, oh, cheers, and yourretirement.
Matt and I have success.
We met a lot of people just atthe Exhibition Park one year,
the other week?

Speaker 3 (59:48):
Yeah, that was a great event.
Yeah, so were you there forthat?

Speaker 1 (59:50):
one as well.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
Well, and before we start, I just want to say again
that you know, look, perhaps I'mthe face a little bit of the
time, Maybe I'm the face a bunchof the time, but it really is a
team and a group.

Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
You know Becky, you know Emma, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
Najah, I should name everybody, and now I just
haven't, so now I'm going to bein trouble.
But whether it's Nick in policyor Kent in policy, or Emily who
writes the magazine, or Willand Jen and Julia who are
selling memberships, or Sandraor Ashley or Lawrence who does
the accounting in Brusola,anyway, did I miss anybody?
I probably did.

(01:00:31):
Oh, and Mandy, you know whoworks the front desk.
I mean, you know it's a teamwho make things happen.

Speaker 3 (01:00:38):
No, that's fantastic.
So how many people?

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
work in there About 17 folks.
17 folks work in there, Okaycool, wow, okay, cool.

Speaker 3 (01:00:46):
All right can you read that there, matt, I sure
can, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Perfect, okay, so we have six questions here.
Then you and I have to make upthe last few questions because
we ran short on time.
Today we had a busy day at theoffice.

Speaker 3 (01:00:58):
Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
So I'll start Aside from Halifax Chamber.
President, you're a managingpartner for Break it Group Inc.
Yes, what is one thing you wishyou could break and rebuild for
small business owners inHalifax?

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Oh, God, gee, that's a tricky question.
Gee whiz.
So yes, so I mean, I started myown business, I ran my own
business and I titled it Breakit Group.
And the reason I titled itBreak it Group was because
sometimes I think you do have tobreak things to kind of rebuild
them.
So that was kind of the goal.

(01:01:35):
What's the one thing I wouldbreak and then rebuild?
Gee, you know what I wouldprobably do, and it's actually a
bigger thing.
I would probably break the taxsystem, okay, and then rebuild
it because it doesn't work quiteas well as it should for small

(01:01:56):
businesses or for individuals.
I mean, you've kind of got alot of little things that have
been built over time.
I think it could be muchsimpler.
There are other ways to build atax system that could be much
simpler for everybody along theway.
Cheers to that.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
Yeah, okay, all right .
Question number two these areall over the place, just so you
know.
If you could have the exactsame meal for supper for like
one week, like every day, whatwould it?

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
be Well.
My wife I uh argued aboutdinner tonight and we I think we
settled on spaghetti uh, so Icould do spaghetti every night
uh, but but I'm, I'm one ofthose guys like I'm, I could
have the same meal every nightand be very happy to have the
same meal, no matter what it is.

(01:02:45):
Uh, unfortunately, my wife is,you know, needs to change it up
every now and again.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
Yeah, you know what you and I are like that and my
wife's very much like that.
She's like we have to do a mealplan, change it up, but if it
was like, I could probably sitthere and have spaghetti for
every day.
Yes, absolutely, make a bigbatch, we'll have it for five
days straight.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
My mother used to make this amazing meal with
round steak.
It with round steak.
It sounds very simple, and sheused to drop that in mushroom
soup with rice.
Oh, I already got it and likeyou know it just tenderizes the
cheap meat and you kind of getto pour the stuff on your rice
and you know I could eat thatforever.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
All right.
Next question what is thestrangest business that you can
recall joining the chamber?
So a business that was a littleobscure that was joining the
chamber.
So a business that was a littleobscure that was joining the
chamber.
You're like, wow, that'sdifferent.
The strangest business?
Maybe not the strangest, butmaybe name an obscure one.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Well, well, I mean you know well, we had.
We had the coal mine in capebreton okay uh, I, I don't know
that, that's obscure, uh, butit's, you know, it's a.
It's unusual.
Uh, we had the, we had a goldmine on the eastern shore, uh,
you know, and that gold mineemployed almost 300 people so I
mean you know it was a big, itwas a big gold mine, uh and and

(01:03:56):
I kind of you know, I mean shewas.
you know I don't want to get itdown the environmental path, but
I mean those are reallyinteresting businesses because
it's something I don't knowabout, right, and I got to talk
about the roof in the, you know,in the coal mine and I got to
talk about, you know, the goldmine and how the process works
and how it's different than itused to be 100 years ago.
So I mean that's reallyinteresting stuff for me.

(01:04:17):
I got to travel to Alberta andview the oil fields in northern
Alberta and had to fly in.
That was pretty amazing, aswell so that's pretty cool stuff
.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
You went in a very different direction.
I thought you were going to say, like you know, we had like a
series of Elvis impersonators orsomething like that Burlesque
coast.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Well, I can show you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
We have had Elvis impersonators and drag queens
and all sorts of things, so Imean it's all good.

Speaker 3 (01:04:53):
These are all small businesses.
Oh, absolutely, yeah, All right.
So question number four is whatis one reason the Halifax
Chamber of Commerce is animportant part of the business
community, so one big reason whyit's important.

Speaker 2 (01:05:01):
I think the gosh.
You know, I don't know if I cancome down to one, but I'll try
to narrow it down.
You know, I'm kind of wrestlingbetween education and advocacy,
and it might actually be thesame thing, because providing
information for people, gettingthe feedback and then kind of
looping back to advocacy, Ithink is probably the most
important thing from myperspective.

Speaker 3 (01:05:21):
Okay, good answer All right.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
If you could invent a new holiday, what would it be
and how would it be celebrated?

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
No more holidays.
Productivity's down remember.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
Remember I told you, Maybe a family day or something.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
Okay, alright, well if I was to invent a new holiday
, it would be Small Business Day, small.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Business Day, it would be.

Speaker 2 (01:05:40):
Small Business Day and we would all have to spend
our time learning that being asmall business is hard, it's
rewarding and we shouldpatronize more small businesses,
Love it All, right yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:05:53):
That's pretty good.
All right, matt, we are nowgoing.
We're in uncharted territories.
We messed up.
You can pull a question fromthe previous.
Yeah, I have a go, Whatever youwant to do.

Speaker 3 (01:06:02):
This is the one we asked the premier.
Oh gosh, okay, I think this isa good one for you.
Would you rather go?
Would you rather travel to aplace that you have already been
, that you're familiar with, ora brand new place?

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
I'm a brand new guy.

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
I figured he'd say that immediately.
From everything that he saidand all the jobs that he's had,
you're a brand new guy right now.
All over you.
Brand new guy, I mean I lovegoing to places.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
I've gone before as well, but I would rather see
something new.
In the last number of yearsI've been able to go to vietnam.
I've been able to go to china.
Um, you know, I've been to.
Uh gosh, where else have I been?

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
um, I'm about to go to croatia on a on a chamber
trip, because chamber thechamber offers travel as well.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Um and uh.
You know, all of those placesare amazing, um and so different
um than what we see every dayso if the chamber needs, like
you know, to travel with somepodcasters or something like,
that's a great idea we can offerthat service I should have said
national podcast day.

Speaker 3 (01:06:59):
That's what I should have said I've been trying to
sell becky on the fact that weshould be the ones hosting all
the pints and porters well, well, there's an opportunity.

Speaker 2 (01:07:08):
I don't think we got a sponsor yet.
There you go, there you go, uhnumber seven.

Speaker 1 (01:07:12):
I'm gonna keep it real simple.
Uh, a book, uh that you mighthave read recently, or a book
that you just like that stays inyour brain, something that you
recommend people read or look at.
Oh gosh, if you're not a bookguy, that's all right.
Oh no, I'm a book guy.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
But you know and I'm terrible, terrible at titles
there's a great book that I haveon my desk that I'm about to
read, on kind of how to improveyour business, called Traction.
That's kind of an interestingidea.
There's a new book that I'velistened to as an audio book but
it's still I think I'm onlyhalfway through and I'm at like
14 hours and it's about healthand it's kind of a good health.

(01:07:48):
It's a great, big, thick bookand I can't remember the name of
it, but it tells you how tolive a healthy life and how
important living a healthy lifeis, how you should.
It kind of talks about I'mtrying to remember the line but
you want to live a good, long,healthy life and die fast, as
bad as that sounds healthy lifeand die fast.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
As bad as that sounds .

Speaker 2 (01:08:08):
You don't want to get to 50 and start declining.
You want to get to 85 anddecline fast from 85 to 90.
I mean my mother's 92.
So you know I don't want her todecline.
But you want to have that longhealthy life and then decline
fast rather than have a longslow decline if you can.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
I like that.
It makes a lot of sense.
It makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
Yeah, Okay, so question number eight is one
that I think you'll findinteresting.
The Chamber's done a reallygreat job about being very
inclusive.
Yeah, and so why, in youropinion, what would be your
reasoning or why would you sayto businesses about why DEI
programs and you know policiesare a good thing for their

(01:08:52):
business?

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Because it makes them a better business.
I mean, that's the simplestanswer and the easiest answer
and I would say it's been proven.
Deloitte has done studies onhow you know a more diverse
business actually is a betterbusiness than a business that is
not as diverse.
That's you know that's diversebusiness actually is a better
business than a business that isnot as diverse.
That's, you know, that's sortof number one, number two if you

(01:09:14):
want to sell more stuff to morepeople and it's not always
about selling, but you knowpeople think Well it is.
if you're in business, though,it is you know, and whether it's
about selling or convincing orenabling or educating or
whatever it is, I kind of thinkof it all as selling, and maybe
I shouldn't, but I'm a marketerand that's just how.
I think, and you know, if youwant to be able to do that, you

(01:09:35):
want to have folks around youwho understand the other folks
that are around you.
I couldn't agree with you moreso you can talk to all
communities to ensure thatyou're presenting them with
something that they're going tobe interested in.

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
I talked about this in a past podcast.
Couldn't agree with you more.
I grew a business one of theother companies I worked for
solely based on the fact that Iwent out and found people who
would speak six differentlanguages to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
Yeah, exactly, yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:10:06):
Cool, I think we're at our 10th question right Nine.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Oh damn, oh boy, here we go oh.

Speaker 1 (01:10:11):
I've got to make something up, oh, okay, okay,
I'm a big music guy, yeah Right.
So let me know what is one ofyour ride-or-die albums from any
time.
Gosh, if you're not a music guy.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
You know I'm probably one of those guys that you know
I listen to.
You know I don't know.
You know what would it becalled Like Yacht Rock?

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
and you know, and Frank Sinatra you know and Teddy
Swims.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
You know, like you know, I enjoy music and I enjoy
a lot of different kinds ofmusic.
So I think great music is, youknow, is whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
You know, whatever you think, it is so.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
I don't know, can I have a little bit of fun with
you then?
Eclectic use of music.
Just go a little bit further inthis question.
Sure, please do when you were ahigh school student.
Yes, Okay what was the band orthe group that you were
listening to?
Oh, okay, cool, you know, itwas April.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Wine, like when I was a high school student, it was
April Wine and it was BTO and itwas Kiss.
And you know, I saw who did Isee, you know, at the forum.
I saw Kiss at the forum and Isaw BTO at the forum and I saw
April Wine in my high school andyou know, and those were bands
that were pretty exciting at thetime and Joe Cocker and Joe

(01:11:31):
Cocker.
And not Queen.

Speaker 3 (01:11:33):
Kiss was at the Forum .
Super Tramp Kiss was at theForum, so you probably would
have seen Kiss when they werealso on the Commons.
What was better, kiss back inhigh school?
No, I didn't see them on theCommons.
No, I didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
I probably wasn't living here at the time, oh
maybe not.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
Yeah probably wasn't living here at the time.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
Oh, maybe not yeah, but but I mean kiss, you know
it's kiss, it's one of thegreatest shows.

Speaker 3 (01:11:52):
I mean you just want to rock and roll all night and
part of part of every day, everyday, part of every day, exactly
all.
Right now we're at our lastquestion, so the last question
is the one we ask everybody allright and so that is what is one
piece of advice that you weregiven, that you would like to
pass on to us and our listeners.

Speaker 2 (01:12:13):
The one piece of advice.
You know it sounds a littletrite, but you know I had a boss
.
I first started working after Igraduated from university.
I started working for ProcterGamble in Toronto and my first
boss said to me you know you gotto do what you love.
And he said you know, if youdon't love marketing because

(01:12:34):
that was the job if you don'tlove marketing, you shouldn't be
doing it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
And.

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
I loved it.
I loved marketing, even thoughI went to school for accounting
and I got all my accounting youknow courses and all those sorts
of things and was going tobecome an accountant and for
many people that would be greatand I rely on that accounting
skill every single day.
But he said you got to do whatyou love, and I kind of always
done what I love and if I didn'tlove it I stopped doing it,

(01:13:01):
started doing something elsethat I loved so, yeah, brilliant
, that's great.

Speaker 3 (01:13:05):
I think that's pretty genuine, pretty Pretty awesome,
so yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:08):
Well that is it, Patrick.
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:13:10):
Cheers.

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
All right.

Speaker 3 (01:13:11):
Thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
We really appreciate it.
You're welcome to come backanytime after your retirement.
You want to come over andpontificate?

Speaker 2 (01:13:18):
with us or whatever, anytime that's great Thanks,
thank you.

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Patrick Sullivan - Retiring Halifax Business Chamber President Reflects on a Incredible Career

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Patrick Sullivan - Retiring Halifax Business Chamber President Reflects on a Incredible Career