April 22, 2026 • 29 mins
Lessons From the Delta continues — and this time, the conversation turns to an unexpected connection between rice farming, water management, and wildlife.
In the 8th and final episode of the Purdue Commercial AgCast mini-series, Chad Fiechter and Todd Kuethe travel to eastern Arkansas to explore how rice production systems intersect with conservation—and why organizations like Ducks Unlimited are working directly with farmers.
What starts as a discussion about rice fields quickly expands into a deeper look at water use, groundwater depletion, and how wildlife habitat can create additional economic value on farmland.
The conversation explores:
- Why rice fields function as surrogate wetlands for waterfowl
- How duck hunting and recreation influence land values in the Delta
- The scale of water use in rice production—and why it matters
- How farmers are adapting to groundwater decline with new practices
- The tradeoffs between yield, water efficiency, and management complexity
- Why agriculture in the Delta requires a fundamentally different system approach
With water becoming an increasingly binding constraint, this episode highlights how farmers are balancing productivity, conservation, and long-term sustainability—and what that means for the future of agriculture.
We’ll continue sharing video clips and behind-the-scenes footage from the Arkansas trip on our YouTube channel throughout the series.
Subscribe to the Purdue Commercial AgCast so you don’t miss upcoming episodes in the Lessons From the Delta series.
Learn more about Ducks Unlimited: https://www.ducks.org/
For more farm management resources, visit: 👉 https://purdue.ag/commercialag
Subscribe to the podcast: 👉 https://purdue.ag/agcast
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(00:00):
The rice fields mimic those wetlands.
(00:01):
They're, it's not the exact same,the food sources aren't the same.
But we can get what weneed to out of that.
So we, we we're gonna use this, it'swhat's there, 80% of the Mississippi
Alluvial Valley is agriculture.
That's why DucksUnlimited care about rice.
(00:22):
We've been talking about the economicsof rice production in the Delta, but
there are some factors that we haven'tconsidered, namely the overlap with water
management, wildlife, and the ecosystem.
In some cases, that intersection,especially with duck hunting, expands
the economic opportunities on farms.
Welcome back to thePurdue Commercial AgCast.
I'm Chad Fiechter.
This episode is part of our Lessonsfrom the Delta series, where Todd and
(00:44):
I traveled through Arkansas talkingwith farmers, researchers, and industry
leaders about rice production systems.
In this episode, we're in easternArkansas, standing in the middle of a rice
field—trying to understand how one of themost water intensive crops in agriculture
is also playing a role in conservation,and why organizations like Ducks Unlimited
are working directly with farmers.
All right, Patrick, you were justsaying something about those birds.
(01:06):
What, what's their name?
So those are black neck stilts.
They are actually breedingnow in the rice fields here.
So when you're, we're driving aroundhere, we will see a lot of these, we'll
see a lot of shore birds and stuff.
These are just really cool.
All right.
So tell us a little bit aboutyourself and where we're at.
Alright, so my name's Patrick Dill.
I'm the Rice StewardshipCoordinator for Duck Unlimited.
Uh, we are in Poinsett County justoutside of Harrisburg, on a, uh,
(01:30):
rice farm, rice soybean rotation.
We are at a USGS well.
So one question that we get a lot is, iswhy does Ducks Unlimited care about rice?
We would do wetlands, floodedtimber, stuff like that.
Waterfowl breed in Canada, NorthDakota, South Dakota, that's
(01:50):
one of our primary target.
It's a priority one zone for us.
That's where we've spent a lot ofour early time working, but we also
realized as an organization you gottasend healthy birds back up to breed.
You gotta send enoughbirds back up to breed.
And those birds will migrateduring the winter down to the
Mississippi Alluvial Valley.
Through the Gulf Coast and,and parts of California.
(02:12):
So those have becamepriority one areas also.
They're just non breeding grounds, sowe're right in the middle of a priority
one non-breeding area for Ducks Unlimited.
So what we're trying to do isprovide habitat, food, cover from
the elements different, predatoryspecies, that we can send healthy
(02:35):
birds, enough birds back up to Canada.
So they can reproduce and keep populationnumbers where they need to be here.
So the reason why this historicallywas great for waterfowl is that
it was flooded timber, wet lands,different kinds of moist soil.
It's also the reason it'sgreat for rice farming.
Yeah, very hydro soils.
(02:56):
So we hold water great here.
Perfect rice fields.
So what made this good for waterfowlis kind of what destroyed it.
Where we converted it to rice farms.
But also we can use those becauserice fields, like we can see the
black neck stilts mimic wetland still.
We still see a lot of the same species.
If we go out there right now and wewalk through that water, we're gonna
(03:19):
see all kinds of macro invertebrates.
There's a rice field rightthere, where the water's coming
from one patty to the next.
We're gonna catch enough snakes thatwe're not gonna wanna walk into another
rice field., There's, there's turtles.
There's birds, there's fish.
So you'll see a lot of these shorebirds, they'll go from like a ditch to
a pond to, uh, they'll bounce around.
And they'll get fish eggs ontheir feet, and then when they
(03:40):
come back into the rice fields,they'll bring those eggs with them.
So, the ecosystem that outin this rice field is crazy.
Wait, wait.
You're saying that you could,you could actually get fish
to move into rice fields?
Like when they harvest,sometimes there's fish?
Well, it's not gonna be likehuge fish, but like little
minnows and stuff like that.
So as, as the birds are traveling andthey're moving between the ditches and
(04:01):
the ponds and the, the streams and stuff,they're gonna get fish eggs on their feet.
And when they go from that ditchover into the rice field, some of
those eggs are gonna come with themand they're gonna get put in there.
So yeah, if we go over thereright now and we kind of played
around, we could see little thingsswimming around in the, the water.
So what do ducks eat?
Ducks eat a little bit of everything.
(04:21):
They feed on seeds from moistoil units, native seeds.
Uh, so what we would think of asweeds probably here is what you
would see in a moist oil unit.
Like a smart weed.
Yeah.
Um, different times of grasses.
They, and they probably prefer that.
But the leftover rice seed, ishigh in nutrient content also.
(04:41):
So we, we can see a lot of that.
So you don't have to worry about the duckscoming in and like eating everything?
No, no.
We don't.
Like they can coexist withthe rice plants not affected.
Right?
Right.
So the timing of the migration with thetiming of when we plant and harvest rice.
There's, there's not a lot of overlap.
You'll see some early kill.
But that's not an issue.
Most of the ducks are gonna comein winter, late fall, winter.
(05:05):
Harvested and we're, we're justgot waste seed in the field.
What we do though is we will put, wehave pipes with, called structure for
water control, or boxes on the endof it where you can put boards in it.
They'll put the boards back in afterthey've harvested and catch rain water.
Some people will artificially floodthe rice fields for waterfowl.
(05:26):
That just brings the water back up.
So now they've got awet habitat to come to.
They also have that waste seed.
Also, you'll get macro invertebrates,protein sources, that will come
into the rice fields after harvest.
Those macro invertebrates willhelp deteriorate the rice residue.
And then the ducks can usethat, especially when they're
going back north in the summer.
(05:48):
That protein's good for them.
Okay.
So what's your background?
'Cause you obviously know a lotabout rice and you work for Ducks
Unlimited as a conservationist, right?
Yes.
So I got a, I got my Bachelor's fromArkansas State in Wildlife Management.
Did a short little bit with Fishand Wildlife Service, worked
for Kansas Parks and Wildlife.
And then I worked for, USDA NRCS,Natural Resource Conservation
(06:10):
Services, for seven years.
I left there, worked for ArkansasState and ARS or agricultural research
services for another three years.
And then we did research ongroundwater in the state.
And actually this is one ofthe projects that we did it on.
So, so roughly about 15 yearsof conservation work on farms.
(06:34):
And then while I was at ArkansasState, I got my master's.
My master's was using satellites toidentify flooded rice fields in the winter
to quantify how much habitat was there.
so what exactly are we looking at?
You, you said we're coming here 'causethere's a lot to see in one spot.
Again, what makes this really goodfor rice, for waterfowl, is the hydro
soils, uh, because we can hold water.
(06:56):
The water's not seepingthrough the ground.
It's, it's, you put it on the field.
It's in the field.
What this is not greatfor is aquifer recharge.
So when you were coming fromMemphis, I don't know if you could
tell, but we have a Crowleys Ridge.
Anything East of Crowleys Ridge,it was recharged relatively easily.
You have the MississippiRiver right there.
There's a lot of sandy spots.
(07:17):
So you'll get infiltration.
On the west side of the ridge,you just don't see that as much.
So we have groundwater decline areaswhere you see your hotspots of rice.
So a lot of the work that we do tomake sure that our rice fields is
to help rice farmers be productive,but also manage those resources
so that there's still water.
So that's why we, we met here.
(07:37):
We have a USGS observation well here.
I've got, so here's a mapof the priority areas.
Wait, this is Ducks Unlimited priority.
Yes.
Yeah.
So, so here's your priority onebreeding area, then down, here's
your priority one, non breeding area.
And then we've got those conesof depression right here.
So where the, the darkest redis, is where we've used more
(07:59):
water than we can, um, recharge.
We are roughly right there.
So for the interested listener,there's a map with green to red.
We are standing in a red area, correct?
It's smack in one of the red areas.
And that just means thatthe water is, it's very low.
How deep is it?
So if we look at this, well, righthere, I think at the lowest it was
(08:24):
this year, it was at 130 feet down.
To water?
To water.
So from here down, it's 130feet till you hit water.
On another well prior tocoming across the ridge.
When you're looking at the graph, it,it kind of bebop between 25 and 30 feet.
So, I mean like almost a hundredfoot difference of water.
(08:45):
Geez.
So pre rice, let's, let's say1920 pre-major irrigated ag
production here, what do you thinkthe water levels would've been?
Uh, I think that would've beensimilar to what you see over there.
Okay.
Um, I, I, if we're not pumpedthe water out, I think the
water would've been just as hot.
The water would've been very similar.
Uh Yep.
So a hundred feet in a hundred years.
(09:07):
To put that into perspective, riceuses more water than any other
major crop grown in this region.
And in some areas, groundwaterlevels are dropping fast.
So the challenge becomes, cana farmer keep growing rice
under the same practices?
We're doing a lot of work to mitigatethat through different ways we're either
irrigating more efficiently, to wherewe are trying to irrigate different ways
(09:29):
so that we're not using as much water.
Rice uses the most water out of anyof the crops that we grow in Arkansas.
It uses 30 acre inches of water typically.
You can do different things.
The way you irrigate it, you canrow irrigate it kinda like what
you would do with beans or corn.
Use a little bit less water.
It might affect the yield a little bit.
You can do AWD where it's,it's a similar set set up here.
(09:52):
But we will pump it up and then we'lllet it kind of go down to a mud flat.
That also helps with carbon.
Different greenhouse gases.
And, and the water's notnecessary for the rice to grow.
It's more for weeds.
So the weeds can't grow in the water.
The rice can, so if we holdwater on it, then we don't have
the same issue with the weeds.
Which is the issue with row riceor, or rice growing furrows.
(10:16):
Um, if you don't have thatstanding water on it, then
you're gonna have weed problems.
So then you're gonna have
Pigweed.
Yeah, you're gonna have,
And if you get pigweed, wedon't have any traits in rice.
Yep.
Right.
So soybeans.
You're fine, but you're kind ofscrewed if you, if you grow rice
and you get a bunch of pigweed.
The other thing, so I don't knowhow many listeners might understand
acre feet or acre inches of water.
(10:38):
So like at any given time a flooded ricefield's gonna have optimally between
roughly two and four inches of water.
So when we say 30 acre inches of water.
It means that throughout the course ofa single production season, you would
put a total of 30 inches on that field.
And so alternate wetting and dryingthough, for example, it's like you
(10:58):
flood, you drain, you flood, you drain.
You might get as little as 14acre inches put on a field so you
can cut your water use in half,you're gonna take some yield hits.
Some varieties do better than others.
You got weed issues.
Fertilization is different.
I mean, it basically, it changesyour entire management plan.
But you can save water andpotentially save greenhouse gases.
(11:21):
But do you, does that increaselike labor time or management time?
Both.
Or is it actually
both?
AWD does both.
Both.
And well, even furrow.
Because furrow, like right now, ifyou go out there, there's no beds.
It's just flat.
They planted the rice into it.
But if you have like a, a soybeanrice rotation and you're planting
your soybeans into beds, as long asnothing crazy happens, it's not super
(11:43):
wet when you're harvesting and thosebeds are still intact, you might
clean it in the fall or the spring.
But you can use those samebeds to plant rice into.
So you might just run through,clean out the furrows really quick.
But the time, the, the diesel,to flatten everything and
then turn it back into beds.
And then flatten everythingthat's, that's removed.
The big trade off though that's,is the levee building though, too.
(12:08):
Yep.
So,
Just to get an idea of 30 acreinches or two and a half acre feet.
An acre foot, and this is arounded up number, is 326 gallons.
And that's two and a half acrefeet of water for every acre.
There's, that's just acrazy amount of water.
(12:28):
Times 1.5 million acresof rice in Arkansas.
Yeah, exactly.
It is a lot of water thatgoes into rice production.
And, and so what you're gonna seethese, these red spots, that's where
your rice production really hits.
Um, you're gonna hear alot about rice capitals.
Poinsett County is typically thehighest producing rice in the state.
(12:51):
It flip flops because of rotations.
So if it's a a rice heavyyear, they're the highest.
If it's a bean heavy year, just'cause the way the rotations
fall, then they're second.
And I've got the, the numbers here,but you're gonna see a majority
of rice is grown right here.
And then right there.
And then that's just there,there, it's not a coincidence that
(13:11):
you see that water decline areawhere the, the highest rice is.
So, okay, here's a question because, um,there's spots where we, like in, in the
Midwest where we just started irrigating.
Yep.
You know, it just kind ofbecame economically viable.
But you're saying you've been growingrice here, using this amount of water.
Is more water being used?
Is less water being used?
Like where
(13:32):
We're definitely becomingmore efficient with the water.
Um.
Like I said, there's, there'sdifferent ways to irrigate.
One easier way, and what you guys mightbe used to is, like with Polypipe.
It's called multi inlet riceirrigation, where they'll pull polypipe
from the riser all the way across.
And they'll punch holes in each patty.
So instead of pumping up water in thetop patty and letting it cascade down.
(13:52):
They're pumping up eachpatty at the same time.
Uh, it makes it more efficient.
The water gets across it a little quicker.
So at that, the research station,the Northeast Arkansas Rice Research,
they're a very efficient water.
What we observe, that's areally efficient water system.
Yep.
And, and, and I, I, I think that'swhat you're gonna start seeing.
Farmers, you know, they're,they're dependent on this.
(14:12):
They, they realize it.
And that's what we're gonna gosee this reservoir in a second.
You're gonna see more of thesereservoirs, more service,
water, um, and more efficiency.
And, and I would expect that you wouldstart to see some sort of rebound in
the aquifer just based off of that.
It's, it's definitely slowed downa lot, uh, over the last few years.
But yeah, because of the farmersrealizing, you know, that this is
happening, they've taken those stepsto make sure that they're gonna
(14:35):
leave it better than they found it.
That's, that's the goalto most people that farm.
They don't wanna give theirtheir kids something that's,
you know, not gonna work.
The rice fields mimic those wetlands.
Uh, they're, it's not the exact same,uh, the food sources aren't the same.
Uh, but we can get whatwe need to out of that.
So we, we we're gonna use this, it'swhat's there, 80% of the Mississippi
Alluvial Valley is agriculture.
(14:57):
You can't change that overnight.
You don't wanna change thatovernight because the human
population is skyrocketing.
We gotta feed everybody.
A good way to do that'sthrough rice production.
So we're not gonna try to get rid of it.
We gotta keep it.
We just gotta work with each other.
Another really important component of likeDelta land values, delta culture is duck
(15:18):
hunting and like the recreational aspect.
So like Aaron was talking about howback in the 18 hundreds, you know,
people moved in here and started to log.
Clear the land.
Drain it.
Today there is immense value placedon places that weren't logged and what
they call a green tree reservoirs.
So places with live trees that can beflooded, and then hunting for ducks.
(15:42):
So sometimes those are morevaluable than Class A crop land is
No way.
in the Delta.
People make tens of thousands of dollarsputting up duck blinds and up cabin.
Stuttgart is the duckcapital of the world.
Really?
I've never been ducking.
So is there, there's gotta be just a crazyamount of money in like guided duck hunts
(16:06):
Yes.
or hosting
An insane
groups?
Lots of, of state i there's a lotof people in state that duck hunt.
But there's, especially the, inprime of Delta, there's immense
influx of out-of-state duck hunters.
Some of the duck, like clubshave own wildlife biologists.
They have their own management.
(16:27):
It's like very, it'svery professionalized.
Because you're trying to like, you wantthe mo the best environment for the ducks?
That's right.
Yes.
They're like farming, they're farming,they're farming rice and farming soybeans.
Or whatever, but they're doing it in away that is optimal for duck hunting.
It is economic decision in the farm.
Well, I mean, we have a little bit ofthat in pockets of the Midwest, where
(16:50):
guys are trying to be very intentionalabout deer population management.
Um, that's what y'all gotta us up to do.
We'll bring you down a duck hunt.
And y'all, y'all bring usup for a white tail hunt.
Uh, we'll have to introduceyou to some other people.
'Cause
Yeah.
Neither of us are hunters.
Frankly, I love to whitetailhunt, uh, so does Colson.
But, if we're gonna do itfor the experience, come down
(17:11):
and let's go duck hunting.
We'll, uh,
Yeah, it, it's a thing.
It's like, if if you have kids, youhave a son, you're like, we'll take
that's like, that's a rite of passage?
Very much so.
People are like at the level of,of they have, a, a George Foreman
or or a grill in the duck blind.
making, you know, they got a Blackstone inthere and they're cooking bacon and eggs
and biscuits while they're duck hunting.
(17:35):
So this isn't just productionagriculture, it's a system that
supports recreation, tourism, and adeeply rooted culture in the Delta.
What we saw here expands ourassumptions about agriculture.
These farmers aren't just maximizingyield, they're balancing production
with water, use, wildlife habitat,and long-term sustainability.
And in situations where water is becomingthe limiting factor, that balance matters.
(17:58):
What surprised you while you were there?
I don't think anything really surprisedme other than like the nuance of
farming, it became very apparent to me.
You know, we were moving acrosscounties and they were still growing
rice, but they were growing rice indifferent ways across the county.
(18:18):
Because I've raised corn andsoybeans, like I've haven't really
thought about the unique differencesbetween raising one specific crop.
So I've always thought about itin sort of like systems thinking.
And it was very different.
And then the, the groups ofpeople who were working in
those areas were different.
So that, the west side of Crowley'sRidge, there was like one group of
farmers and then on the other sidethere was a different group of farmers.
(18:40):
Yeah.
And, and the, and the productionpractice would be different.
The commodities they couldgrow would be different.
Their access to water is very different.
Then there's also the whole harvesting itand selling it the different uses of rice.
There's not like just likenumber two yellow rice.
There's the quality grainafter it's harvested dictates
what can be done with it.
(19:00):
Some of it ends up just likeas animal food, pet food.
Some of it we eat here.
We were, was just with some of mynieces and nephews and I was like,
do you guys know what the differencebetween brown rice and white rice is?
Yeah.
It's the same rice.
It's the same rice.
Well, one of the things I thinkwe both agreed was it was fun to
think about a crop that's, thathas grown for human consumption.
(19:20):
At least in my world, I won't speak foryou, but a lot of times I'm thinking about
commodity production that's going intoanimal feed, or it's going into fuel,
or it's going, you know, like there's.
Industrial use.
Yeah, exactly.
This is gonna be consumed bypeople, right outta the field.
Could be.
I think one of the other things was theidea of like, it being a staple food.
So like, it's not reallya staple food in my diet.
It seemed to more of a staple foodto people who live in the Delta.
(19:44):
Which, which is funny to me because,there's this weird love- hate
relationship with rice among rice farmers.
So they eat at a bunch.
And apparently, like if you go toan extension event, like you've
gotta have rice on the table, right?
It'd be like going to the National Porkproducers and just having turkey burgers.
They eat rice probably as muchas Brian Martin, our guest that
was a, the hog farmer eats pork.
(20:07):
No, no.
100%. You are thinkingabout ways to eat rice.
But they have thisharmless view of nature.
But there's so many things in naturethere that like want to do harm
to you or could do harm to you.
There's the snakes, there's mosquitoes,which we came strategically to avoid
the depth of, uh, mosquito season.
Uh, the ticks.
(20:27):
People were like, oh, don'teven look at the grass.
You're gonna get a tick on you.
And we, we met with, uh, when we met withour friend from, uh, uh, ducks Unlimited.
He, he called our host AaronAnd said, Hey, just wanna
let you know I found a tick.
Make sure you guys are checking for ticks.
Like he followed up laterabout his tick incident.
Well, and
think that said he saw what,46 snakes in a day or something
(20:49):
like No, I think that there's a partwhere it was like, there, there's a
pragmatism towards navigating this.
The, the things that are gonna kill you,that I like as a person who's grown up
in Indiana, we don't really have sortof like off limits things like you,
you sure you can walk through there?
Don't, don't worry about that.
You can do that in there.
It was like, don't go under the trees.
Stay out of the tall grass.
Right.
It was there, we, we found rulesfairly quickly where it's like, Hey,
(21:11):
do this, do And it wasn't sort of like.
People with a, over anoverabundance of caution.
It was like hardened people sayinglike, stay outta the grass, don't trees.
You know what I mean?
because, because sometimes peoplegive you advice and you're think
I'm go stand
these, these, these were not like nervous.
Uh, type people.
I, I don't we met anyone
(21:32):
that it wasn't like they were like thestereotypical, like overprotective mom,
you know, where it's not, it's not likethey're like making their kids wear,
uh, uh, air tags in their clothes.
'Cause they wanna know where they are.
Like, it's like a, like I generallydon't worry about anything about it.
Worry about these ticks.
Yeah.
Well, and they also in ticks,mosquitoes, snakes, like, it
(21:52):
was like, do this, do this.
And I was like, well, maybe my fearof snakes, like maybe this is what
I need, like, and I need to just goand learn how to deal with snakes.
Yeah.
The other one is they alsorecreate a lot where they work.
So they have all these big,uh, ponds, retention ponds
is what we would call them.
A hundred acres or more of waterthat they're saving to be able to
(22:15):
flood the fields when they need it.
But those are also fullof crazy amount of fish.
Every time we went to a powe went to ponds particularly
in the morning or at night.
Fish were just like all over the place.
So they're duck hunting, they'refishing, like they're recreating,
They're hunting gators.
They're hunting gators.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So like the, yeah, it just, allthis stuff, um, so like this
working, recreate like you just,like, it had a real sense of place.
(22:39):
And the part of it too is again, this ideaof them being sort of the dairy of crops.
Like you've gotta be around that farm.
Like talking to the farmers.
There's like.
Kind of like a morningcheck and an evening check.
And that's not even like the,like work, like, that's not like
you necessarily doing anything.
You've gotta at least likecheck in on everything.
(22:59):
If, if if our listener is asclueless about rice production
as I was before we went.
to be fair, neither of us haveany experience with irrigation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But so
probably other
places too.
This is my misunderstanding.
Call in.
Write us.
If I'm saying this wrong, um, but you, youplant the rice and then you flood it, um,
(23:22):
For weed control.
In part for weed control, in part forweed control, um, the rice does really
well, but there's like an optimalamount of water to have in there.
And if there's a lot of,uh, rain that comes through.
You can have too much water.
Mm-hmm.
If your levy breaks or, um, there'ssomething wrong with your, well,
(23:42):
like, you can have too little water.
Yep.
So what they're always doing is like,fiddling with the water to get it
to that optimal level that you want.
Against nature, trying to make itmore or less than you want it to be.
Correct.
Um, and so these, the waterchasing is that act of like
aiming for optimal all the time.
(24:04):
And these farms are huge.
Yeah.
They're thousands of acres.
And so it's not like, it's not likea, a backyard garden where it's
like, I'm gonna go check and makesure there's no deer out here and
I can, that'll take me two minutes.
You're talking, you're, you'removing around in a pickup truck.
You're, you're walking on levees,you are literally checking
physically, like what's the depth?
(24:26):
Yes.
Do I need to adjust something?
Is the pump still working?
And, and, and, and then we think abouttechnology in agriculture, like there's
all sorts of, this used to just belike an art, like some guy would kind
of feel it out or sense it, right?
But now they're, they're checkingflow meters, they're checking depth,
all of that, like electronically.
Some of that they're able to do,you know, remotely to get some idea,
(24:47):
but then you're gonna have to go.
At least every once in a while, acouple times a day, it sounds like
in most places, to verify thatdata with your own physical senses.
No, and I think that was the thingis that, that I think Colson said it.
wonder how many sort of technologicaltools have been developed for rice
(25:08):
farming because specifically aroundwater, but it still struck me that
almost even the most technologicallyadvanced they were doing these rounds.
The wa the person in charge ofwater or persons was literally
doing physical rounding, checkingall these fields, making sure that
even though they would have sort ofon their phone, what's the levels?
Are we working?
Is the pump working?
(25:28):
So it was like, it wasn't somethingthat you can like tech your way out of
Yeah.
Well, and, and the, and thepumps sometimes are electricity.
Some places they're diesel, right.
So there's like a, a mechanicalthing you gotta think about.
Right?
So like if you, we, when we wereeven at the experiment station, which
should be as close to like a perfectlycontrolled environment, they were talking
about like issues they were havingwith the power company, with like.
(25:51):
You know, is this wellworking or is this Yeah.
And like we gotta get somebodyto come out and check it.
Right.
Um, 'cause some of thatyou can't do yourself.
So I think what I'm coming back from this.
Specific experience is maybe notspecifically tied to rice, it's
around sort of the general concept.
I'm like, oh, that was so fun tolike take a deep dive and like pull
out all of my preconceived notionsand just experience something.
(26:13):
Uh, like I love that.
So I've spent a lot of mycareer in the corn belt.
And thinking about corn belteconomics and corn belt stuff.
I mean that Center of CommercialAgriculture, that's bulk of what we do.
Right?
Yeah.
what we do.
But I was like, oh, I need to getinto other kinds of agriculture.
Yeah.
Like we, we like on the way home, we werediscussing like, oh, it'd be cool to go
to California, see some permanent crops.
(26:35):
It'd be cool to go to.
Uh, out to Eastern Washington and seelike the dry land agriculture up there
or like, um, I'm like, oh, we shouldgo back to, I should go to, I've been
to Montana to go to the national parks,but I should go like just visit farms.
Yeah.
Um, that I was like, Iwanna do more of this.
That's a big part of it.
The other one, and I'm maybe should notsay this on the podcast, but I'm going to.
(26:58):
I learned a lot from the extension folks.
And sort of what would bekind of our colleagues.
And we did talk shop a little bitabout, about funding and grantsmanship
and hiring talent and all thethings we think about as academics.
But what I really loved was likewhen we hung out with the farmer
and talked about his experience, um.
(27:19):
Or like you mentioned, theDuck's Unlimited, right?
Yeah.
Or, or even the, the folks thatwere running the distillery Yeah.
About, you know, their farm andtheir production of, we went
on a tour of the distillery.
They told us their wholedistilling process.
Right.
That I was like, I need to spendmore time around practitioners
that are actually doing this stuff.
And then go talk to the academicsor think about the academics.
(27:39):
But I would like, I was like, man, likeit's, I wish I was doing more of that.
'cause I talked to, you know,other university type folks all
the time right here at Purdue.
Right When we travel around, I'll goto conferences and it's people like us.
Yeah.
From other departments, other colleges.
And I was like, man, I gottajust like spend more time.
And even like spending time with Colson.
(28:02):
And so he works in farmland investmentand was talking to us about like sort
of how they acquire properties, howthey go through like, like that part of
his job as a kind of a practitioner issomebody who studies land prices, right?
So, uh, I should probably mention I'mthe Schrader Chair in farmland economics.
I study land prices, right?
Yeah.
And I, I'm working right now on ourextension report about, um, which our
(28:24):
listeners will have already been able toread about Indiana land prices, right?
Mm-hmm.
Um, but like spending more time aroundthe practitioners working in that space.
Like I just wanna domore of it going forward.
If you think your place, oh mygosh, would be as beneficial to us
as this one was, get ahold of us.
And I think that's probably the biggesttakeaway from this entire series.
(28:46):
When I step outside of what I know,for me, the corn belt outside of
systems I'm familiar with, I startedto see how many different ways
there are to make agriculture work.
In the Delta.
It's water, it's rice, it's wildlife.
It's a completely different setof constraints and a completely
different set of solutions.
The underlying theme is the same.
Farmers are adapting.
They're managing risk, they'remaking decisions with the resources
(29:08):
they have, and they're buildingsystems that are designed to last.
And for us, this trip was a reminderthat if you really want to understand
agriculture, you gotta go see it.
You gotta talk to the people doing it,and you gotta be willing to challenge some
of your own assumptions along the way.
We had a lot of fun puttingthis series together and we
hope you found it valuable.
If you did, make sure you're subscribedto the Purdue Commercial Ag Cast.
(29:30):
We've got more conversationslike this coming.
Along with our regular AgEconomy Barometer updates.
Thanks for joining us forthe lessons from the Delta.
We'll see you next time.
I.
The rice fields mimic those wetlands.
(00:01):
They're, it's not the exact same,the food sources aren't the same.
But we can get what weneed to out of that.
So we, we we're gonna use this, it'swhat's there, 80% of the Mississippi
Alluvial Valley is agriculture.
That's why DucksUnlimited care about rice.
(00:22):
We've been talking about the economicsof rice production in the Delta, but
there are some factors that we haven'tconsidered, namely the overlap with water
management, wildlife, and the ecosystem.
In some cases, that intersection,especially with duck hunting, expands
the economic opportunities on farms.
Welcome back to thePurdue Commercial AgCast.
I'm Chad Fiechter.
This episode is part of our Lessonsfrom the Delta series, where Todd and
(00:44):
I traveled through Arkansas talkingwith farmers, researchers, and industry
leaders about rice production systems.
In this episode, we're in easternArkansas, standing in the middle of a rice
field—trying to understand how one of themost water intensive crops in agriculture
is also playing a role in conservation,and why organizations like Ducks Unlimited
are working directly with farmers.
All right, Patrick, you were justsaying something about those birds.
(01:06):
What, what's their name?
So those are black neck stilts.
They are actually breedingnow in the rice fields here.
So when you're, we're driving aroundhere, we will see a lot of these, we'll
see a lot of shore birds and stuff.
These are just really cool.
All right.
So tell us a little bit aboutyourself and where we're at.
Alright, so my name's Patrick Dill.
I'm the Rice StewardshipCoordinator for Duck Unlimited.
Uh, we are in Poinsett County justoutside of Harrisburg, on a, uh,
(01:30):
rice farm, rice soybean rotation.
We are at a USGS well.
So one question that we get a lot is, iswhy does Ducks Unlimited care about rice?
We would do wetlands, floodedtimber, stuff like that.
Waterfowl breed in Canada, NorthDakota, South Dakota, that's
(01:50):
one of our primary target.
It's a priority one zone for us.
That's where we've spent a lot ofour early time working, but we also
realized as an organization you gottasend healthy birds back up to breed.
You gotta send enoughbirds back up to breed.
And those birds will migrateduring the winter down to the
Mississippi Alluvial Valley.
Through the Gulf Coast and,and parts of California.
(02:12):
So those have becamepriority one areas also.
They're just non breeding grounds, sowe're right in the middle of a priority
one non-breeding area for Ducks Unlimited.
So what we're trying to do isprovide habitat, food, cover from
the elements different, predatoryspecies, that we can send healthy
(02:35):
birds, enough birds back up to Canada.
So they can reproduce and keep populationnumbers where they need to be here.
So the reason why this historicallywas great for waterfowl is that
it was flooded timber, wet lands,different kinds of moist soil.
It's also the reason it'sgreat for rice farming.
Yeah, very hydro soils.
(02:56):
So we hold water great here.
Perfect rice fields.
So what made this good for waterfowlis kind of what destroyed it.
Where we converted it to rice farms.
But also we can use those becauserice fields, like we can see the
black neck stilts mimic wetland still.
We still see a lot of the same species.
If we go out there right now and wewalk through that water, we're gonna
(03:19):
see all kinds of macro invertebrates.
There's a rice field rightthere, where the water's coming
from one patty to the next.
We're gonna catch enough snakes thatwe're not gonna wanna walk into another
rice field., There's, there's turtles.
There's birds, there's fish.
So you'll see a lot of these shorebirds, they'll go from like a ditch to
a pond to, uh, they'll bounce around.
And they'll get fish eggs ontheir feet, and then when they
(03:40):
come back into the rice fields,they'll bring those eggs with them.
So, the ecosystem that outin this rice field is crazy.
Wait, wait.
You're saying that you could,you could actually get fish
to move into rice fields?
Like when they harvest,sometimes there's fish?
Well, it's not gonna be likehuge fish, but like little
minnows and stuff like that.
So as, as the birds are traveling andthey're moving between the ditches and
(04:01):
the ponds and the, the streams and stuff,they're gonna get fish eggs on their feet.
And when they go from that ditchover into the rice field, some of
those eggs are gonna come with themand they're gonna get put in there.
So yeah, if we go over thereright now and we kind of played
around, we could see little thingsswimming around in the, the water.
So what do ducks eat?
Ducks eat a little bit of everything.
(04:21):
They feed on seeds from moistoil units, native seeds.
Uh, so what we would think of asweeds probably here is what you
would see in a moist oil unit.
Like a smart weed.
Yeah.
Um, different times of grasses.
They, and they probably prefer that.
But the leftover rice seed, ishigh in nutrient content also.
(04:41):
So we, we can see a lot of that.
So you don't have to worry about the duckscoming in and like eating everything?
No, no.
We don't.
Like they can coexist withthe rice plants not affected.
Right?
Right.
So the timing of the migration with thetiming of when we plant and harvest rice.
There's, there's not a lot of overlap.
You'll see some early kill.
But that's not an issue.
Most of the ducks are gonna comein winter, late fall, winter.
(05:05):
Harvested and we're, we're justgot waste seed in the field.
What we do though is we will put, wehave pipes with, called structure for
water control, or boxes on the endof it where you can put boards in it.
They'll put the boards back in afterthey've harvested and catch rain water.
Some people will artificially floodthe rice fields for waterfowl.
(05:26):
That just brings the water back up.
So now they've got awet habitat to come to.
They also have that waste seed.
Also, you'll get macro invertebrates,protein sources, that will come
into the rice fields after harvest.
Those macro invertebrates willhelp deteriorate the rice residue.
And then the ducks can usethat, especially when they're
going back north in the summer.
(05:48):
That protein's good for them.
Okay.
So what's your background?
'Cause you obviously know a lotabout rice and you work for Ducks
Unlimited as a conservationist, right?
Yes.
So I got a, I got my Bachelor's fromArkansas State in Wildlife Management.
Did a short little bit with Fishand Wildlife Service, worked
for Kansas Parks and Wildlife.
And then I worked for, USDA NRCS,Natural Resource Conservation
(06:10):
Services, for seven years.
I left there, worked for ArkansasState and ARS or agricultural research
services for another three years.
And then we did research ongroundwater in the state.
And actually this is one ofthe projects that we did it on.
So, so roughly about 15 yearsof conservation work on farms.
(06:34):
And then while I was at ArkansasState, I got my master's.
My master's was using satellites toidentify flooded rice fields in the winter
to quantify how much habitat was there.
so what exactly are we looking at?
You, you said we're coming here 'causethere's a lot to see in one spot.
Again, what makes this really goodfor rice, for waterfowl, is the hydro
soils, uh, because we can hold water.
(06:56):
The water's not seepingthrough the ground.
It's, it's, you put it on the field.
It's in the field.
What this is not greatfor is aquifer recharge.
So when you were coming fromMemphis, I don't know if you could
tell, but we have a Crowleys Ridge.
Anything East of Crowleys Ridge,it was recharged relatively easily.
You have the MississippiRiver right there.
There's a lot of sandy spots.
(07:17):
So you'll get infiltration.
On the west side of the ridge,you just don't see that as much.
So we have groundwater decline areaswhere you see your hotspots of rice.
So a lot of the work that we do tomake sure that our rice fields is
to help rice farmers be productive,but also manage those resources
so that there's still water.
So that's why we, we met here.
(07:37):
We have a USGS observation well here.
I've got, so here's a mapof the priority areas.
Wait, this is Ducks Unlimited priority.
Yes.
Yeah.
So, so here's your priority onebreeding area, then down, here's
your priority one, non breeding area.
And then we've got those conesof depression right here.
So where the, the darkest redis, is where we've used more
(07:59):
water than we can, um, recharge.
We are roughly right there.
So for the interested listener,there's a map with green to red.
We are standing in a red area, correct?
It's smack in one of the red areas.
And that just means thatthe water is, it's very low.
How deep is it?
So if we look at this, well, righthere, I think at the lowest it was
(08:24):
this year, it was at 130 feet down.
To water?
To water.
So from here down, it's 130feet till you hit water.
On another well prior tocoming across the ridge.
When you're looking at the graph, it,it kind of bebop between 25 and 30 feet.
So, I mean like almost a hundredfoot difference of water.
(08:45):
Geez.
So pre rice, let's, let's say1920 pre-major irrigated ag
production here, what do you thinkthe water levels would've been?
Uh, I think that would've beensimilar to what you see over there.
Okay.
Um, I, I, if we're not pumpedthe water out, I think the
water would've been just as hot.
The water would've been very similar.
Uh Yep.
So a hundred feet in a hundred years.
(09:07):
To put that into perspective, riceuses more water than any other
major crop grown in this region.
And in some areas, groundwaterlevels are dropping fast.
So the challenge becomes, cana farmer keep growing rice
under the same practices?
We're doing a lot of work to mitigatethat through different ways we're either
irrigating more efficiently, to wherewe are trying to irrigate different ways
(09:29):
so that we're not using as much water.
Rice uses the most water out of anyof the crops that we grow in Arkansas.
It uses 30 acre inches of water typically.
You can do different things.
The way you irrigate it, you canrow irrigate it kinda like what
you would do with beans or corn.
Use a little bit less water.
It might affect the yield a little bit.
You can do AWD where it's,it's a similar set set up here.
(09:52):
But we will pump it up and then we'lllet it kind of go down to a mud flat.
That also helps with carbon.
Different greenhouse gases.
And, and the water's notnecessary for the rice to grow.
It's more for weeds.
So the weeds can't grow in the water.
The rice can, so if we holdwater on it, then we don't have
the same issue with the weeds.
Which is the issue with row riceor, or rice growing furrows.
(10:16):
Um, if you don't have thatstanding water on it, then
you're gonna have weed problems.
So then you're gonna have
Pigweed.
Yeah, you're gonna have,
And if you get pigweed, wedon't have any traits in rice.
Yep.
Right.
So soybeans.
You're fine, but you're kind ofscrewed if you, if you grow rice
and you get a bunch of pigweed.
The other thing, so I don't knowhow many listeners might understand
acre feet or acre inches of water.
(10:38):
So like at any given time a flooded ricefield's gonna have optimally between
roughly two and four inches of water.
So when we say 30 acre inches of water.
It means that throughout the course ofa single production season, you would
put a total of 30 inches on that field.
And so alternate wetting and dryingthough, for example, it's like you
(10:58):
flood, you drain, you flood, you drain.
You might get as little as 14acre inches put on a field so you
can cut your water use in half,you're gonna take some yield hits.
Some varieties do better than others.
You got weed issues.
Fertilization is different.
I mean, it basically, it changesyour entire management plan.
But you can save water andpotentially save greenhouse gases.
(11:21):
But do you, does that increaselike labor time or management time?
Both.
Or is it actually
both?
AWD does both.
Both.
And well, even furrow.
Because furrow, like right now, ifyou go out there, there's no beds.
It's just flat.
They planted the rice into it.
But if you have like a, a soybeanrice rotation and you're planting
your soybeans into beds, as long asnothing crazy happens, it's not super
(11:43):
wet when you're harvesting and thosebeds are still intact, you might
clean it in the fall or the spring.
But you can use those samebeds to plant rice into.
So you might just run through,clean out the furrows really quick.
But the time, the, the diesel,to flatten everything and
then turn it back into beds.
And then flatten everythingthat's, that's removed.
The big trade off though that's,is the levee building though, too.
(12:08):
Yep.
So,
Just to get an idea of 30 acreinches or two and a half acre feet.
An acre foot, and this is arounded up number, is 326 gallons.
And that's two and a half acrefeet of water for every acre.
There's, that's just acrazy amount of water.
(12:28):
Times 1.5 million acresof rice in Arkansas.
Yeah, exactly.
It is a lot of water thatgoes into rice production.
And, and so what you're gonna seethese, these red spots, that's where
your rice production really hits.
Um, you're gonna hear alot about rice capitals.
Poinsett County is typically thehighest producing rice in the state.
(12:51):
It flip flops because of rotations.
So if it's a a rice heavyyear, they're the highest.
If it's a bean heavy year, just'cause the way the rotations
fall, then they're second.
And I've got the, the numbers here,but you're gonna see a majority
of rice is grown right here.
And then right there.
And then that's just there,there, it's not a coincidence that
(13:11):
you see that water decline areawhere the, the highest rice is.
So, okay, here's a question because, um,there's spots where we, like in, in the
Midwest where we just started irrigating.
Yep.
You know, it just kind ofbecame economically viable.
But you're saying you've been growingrice here, using this amount of water.
Is more water being used?
Is less water being used?
Like where
(13:32):
We're definitely becomingmore efficient with the water.
Um.
Like I said, there's, there'sdifferent ways to irrigate.
One easier way, and what you guys mightbe used to is, like with Polypipe.
It's called multi inlet riceirrigation, where they'll pull polypipe
from the riser all the way across.
And they'll punch holes in each patty.
So instead of pumping up water in thetop patty and letting it cascade down.
(13:52):
They're pumping up eachpatty at the same time.
Uh, it makes it more efficient.
The water gets across it a little quicker.
So at that, the research station,the Northeast Arkansas Rice Research,
they're a very efficient water.
What we observe, that's areally efficient water system.
Yep.
And, and, and I, I, I think that'swhat you're gonna start seeing.
Farmers, you know, they're,they're dependent on this.
(14:12):
They, they realize it.
And that's what we're gonna gosee this reservoir in a second.
You're gonna see more of thesereservoirs, more service,
water, um, and more efficiency.
And, and I would expect that you wouldstart to see some sort of rebound in
the aquifer just based off of that.
It's, it's definitely slowed downa lot, uh, over the last few years.
But yeah, because of the farmersrealizing, you know, that this is
happening, they've taken those stepsto make sure that they're gonna
(14:35):
leave it better than they found it.
That's, that's the goalto most people that farm.
They don't wanna give theirtheir kids something that's,
you know, not gonna work.
The rice fields mimic those wetlands.
Uh, they're, it's not the exact same,uh, the food sources aren't the same.
Uh, but we can get whatwe need to out of that.
So we, we we're gonna use this, it'swhat's there, 80% of the Mississippi
Alluvial Valley is agriculture.
(14:57):
You can't change that overnight.
You don't wanna change thatovernight because the human
population is skyrocketing.
We gotta feed everybody.
A good way to do that'sthrough rice production.
So we're not gonna try to get rid of it.
We gotta keep it.
We just gotta work with each other.
Another really important component of likeDelta land values, delta culture is duck
(15:18):
hunting and like the recreational aspect.
So like Aaron was talking about howback in the 18 hundreds, you know,
people moved in here and started to log.
Clear the land.
Drain it.
Today there is immense value placedon places that weren't logged and what
they call a green tree reservoirs.
So places with live trees that can beflooded, and then hunting for ducks.
(15:42):
So sometimes those are morevaluable than Class A crop land is
No way.
in the Delta.
People make tens of thousands of dollarsputting up duck blinds and up cabin.
Stuttgart is the duckcapital of the world.
Really?
I've never been ducking.
So is there, there's gotta be just a crazyamount of money in like guided duck hunts
(16:06):
Yes.
or hosting
An insane
groups?
Lots of, of state i there's a lotof people in state that duck hunt.
But there's, especially the, inprime of Delta, there's immense
influx of out-of-state duck hunters.
Some of the duck, like clubshave own wildlife biologists.
They have their own management.
(16:27):
It's like very, it'svery professionalized.
Because you're trying to like, you wantthe mo the best environment for the ducks?
That's right.
Yes.
They're like farming, they're farming,they're farming rice and farming soybeans.
Or whatever, but they're doing it in away that is optimal for duck hunting.
It is economic decision in the farm.
Well, I mean, we have a little bit ofthat in pockets of the Midwest, where
(16:50):
guys are trying to be very intentionalabout deer population management.
Um, that's what y'all gotta us up to do.
We'll bring you down a duck hunt.
And y'all, y'all bring usup for a white tail hunt.
Uh, we'll have to introduceyou to some other people.
'Cause
Yeah.
Neither of us are hunters.
Frankly, I love to whitetailhunt, uh, so does Colson.
But, if we're gonna do itfor the experience, come down
(17:11):
and let's go duck hunting.
We'll, uh,
Yeah, it, it's a thing.
It's like, if if you have kids, youhave a son, you're like, we'll take
that's like, that's a rite of passage?
Very much so.
People are like at the level of,of they have, a, a George Foreman
or or a grill in the duck blind.
making, you know, they got a Blackstone inthere and they're cooking bacon and eggs
and biscuits while they're duck hunting.
(17:35):
So this isn't just productionagriculture, it's a system that
supports recreation, tourism, and adeeply rooted culture in the Delta.
What we saw here expands ourassumptions about agriculture.
These farmers aren't just maximizingyield, they're balancing production
with water, use, wildlife habitat,and long-term sustainability.
And in situations where water is becomingthe limiting factor, that balance matters.
(17:58):
What surprised you while you were there?
I don't think anything really surprisedme other than like the nuance of
farming, it became very apparent to me.
You know, we were moving acrosscounties and they were still growing
rice, but they were growing rice indifferent ways across the county.
(18:18):
Because I've raised corn andsoybeans, like I've haven't really
thought about the unique differencesbetween raising one specific crop.
So I've always thought about itin sort of like systems thinking.
And it was very different.
And then the, the groups ofpeople who were working in
those areas were different.
So that, the west side of Crowley'sRidge, there was like one group of
farmers and then on the other sidethere was a different group of farmers.
(18:40):
Yeah.
And, and the, and the productionpractice would be different.
The commodities they couldgrow would be different.
Their access to water is very different.
Then there's also the whole harvesting itand selling it the different uses of rice.
There's not like just likenumber two yellow rice.
There's the quality grainafter it's harvested dictates
what can be done with it.
(19:00):
Some of it ends up just likeas animal food, pet food.
Some of it we eat here.
We were, was just with some of mynieces and nephews and I was like,
do you guys know what the differencebetween brown rice and white rice is?
Yeah.
It's the same rice.
It's the same rice.
Well, one of the things I thinkwe both agreed was it was fun to
think about a crop that's, thathas grown for human consumption.
(19:20):
At least in my world, I won't speak foryou, but a lot of times I'm thinking about
commodity production that's going intoanimal feed, or it's going into fuel,
or it's going, you know, like there's.
Industrial use.
Yeah, exactly.
This is gonna be consumed bypeople, right outta the field.
Could be.
I think one of the other things was theidea of like, it being a staple food.
So like, it's not reallya staple food in my diet.
It seemed to more of a staple foodto people who live in the Delta.
(19:44):
Which, which is funny to me because,there's this weird love- hate
relationship with rice among rice farmers.
So they eat at a bunch.
And apparently, like if you go toan extension event, like you've
gotta have rice on the table, right?
It'd be like going to the National Porkproducers and just having turkey burgers.
They eat rice probably as muchas Brian Martin, our guest that
was a, the hog farmer eats pork.
(20:07):
No, no.
100%. You are thinkingabout ways to eat rice.
But they have thisharmless view of nature.
But there's so many things in naturethere that like want to do harm
to you or could do harm to you.
There's the snakes, there's mosquitoes,which we came strategically to avoid
the depth of, uh, mosquito season.
Uh, the ticks.
(20:27):
People were like, oh, don'teven look at the grass.
You're gonna get a tick on you.
And we, we met with, uh, when we met withour friend from, uh, uh, ducks Unlimited.
He, he called our host AaronAnd said, Hey, just wanna
let you know I found a tick.
Make sure you guys are checking for ticks.
Like he followed up laterabout his tick incident.
Well, and
think that said he saw what,46 snakes in a day or something
(20:49):
like No, I think that there's a partwhere it was like, there, there's a
pragmatism towards navigating this.
The, the things that are gonna kill you,that I like as a person who's grown up
in Indiana, we don't really have sortof like off limits things like you,
you sure you can walk through there?
Don't, don't worry about that.
You can do that in there.
It was like, don't go under the trees.
Stay out of the tall grass.
Right.
It was there, we, we found rulesfairly quickly where it's like, Hey,
(21:11):
do this, do And it wasn't sort of like.
People with a, over anoverabundance of caution.
It was like hardened people sayinglike, stay outta the grass, don't trees.
You know what I mean?
because, because sometimes peoplegive you advice and you're think
I'm go stand
these, these, these were not like nervous.
Uh, type people.
I, I don't we met anyone
(21:32):
that it wasn't like they were like thestereotypical, like overprotective mom,
you know, where it's not, it's not likethey're like making their kids wear,
uh, uh, air tags in their clothes.
'Cause they wanna know where they are.
Like, it's like a, like I generallydon't worry about anything about it.
Worry about these ticks.
Yeah.
Well, and they also in ticks,mosquitoes, snakes, like, it
(21:52):
was like, do this, do this.
And I was like, well, maybe my fearof snakes, like maybe this is what
I need, like, and I need to just goand learn how to deal with snakes.
Yeah.
The other one is they alsorecreate a lot where they work.
So they have all these big,uh, ponds, retention ponds
is what we would call them.
A hundred acres or more of waterthat they're saving to be able to
(22:15):
flood the fields when they need it.
But those are also fullof crazy amount of fish.
Every time we went to a powe went to ponds particularly
in the morning or at night.
Fish were just like all over the place.
So they're duck hunting, they'refishing, like they're recreating,
They're hunting gators.
They're hunting gators.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So like the, yeah, it just, allthis stuff, um, so like this
working, recreate like you just,like, it had a real sense of place.
(22:39):
And the part of it too is again, this ideaof them being sort of the dairy of crops.
Like you've gotta be around that farm.
Like talking to the farmers.
There's like.
Kind of like a morningcheck and an evening check.
And that's not even like the,like work, like, that's not like
you necessarily doing anything.
You've gotta at least likecheck in on everything.
(22:59):
If, if if our listener is asclueless about rice production
as I was before we went.
to be fair, neither of us haveany experience with irrigation.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But so
probably other
places too.
This is my misunderstanding.
Call in.
Write us.
If I'm saying this wrong, um, but you, youplant the rice and then you flood it, um,
(23:22):
For weed control.
In part for weed control, in part forweed control, um, the rice does really
well, but there's like an optimalamount of water to have in there.
And if there's a lot of,uh, rain that comes through.
You can have too much water.
Mm-hmm.
If your levy breaks or, um, there'ssomething wrong with your, well,
(23:42):
like, you can have too little water.
Yep.
So what they're always doing is like,fiddling with the water to get it
to that optimal level that you want.
Against nature, trying to make itmore or less than you want it to be.
Correct.
Um, and so these, the waterchasing is that act of like
aiming for optimal all the time.
(24:04):
And these farms are huge.
Yeah.
They're thousands of acres.
And so it's not like, it's not likea, a backyard garden where it's
like, I'm gonna go check and makesure there's no deer out here and
I can, that'll take me two minutes.
You're talking, you're, you'removing around in a pickup truck.
You're, you're walking on levees,you are literally checking
physically, like what's the depth?
(24:26):
Yes.
Do I need to adjust something?
Is the pump still working?
And, and, and, and then we think abouttechnology in agriculture, like there's
all sorts of, this used to just belike an art, like some guy would kind
of feel it out or sense it, right?
But now they're, they're checkingflow meters, they're checking depth,
all of that, like electronically.
Some of that they're able to do,you know, remotely to get some idea,
(24:47):
but then you're gonna have to go.
At least every once in a while, acouple times a day, it sounds like
in most places, to verify thatdata with your own physical senses.
No, and I think that was the thingis that, that I think Colson said it.
wonder how many sort of technologicaltools have been developed for rice
(25:08):
farming because specifically aroundwater, but it still struck me that
almost even the most technologicallyadvanced they were doing these rounds.
The wa the person in charge ofwater or persons was literally
doing physical rounding, checkingall these fields, making sure that
even though they would have sort ofon their phone, what's the levels?
Are we working?
Is the pump working?
(25:28):
So it was like, it wasn't somethingthat you can like tech your way out of
Yeah.
Well, and, and the, and thepumps sometimes are electricity.
Some places they're diesel, right.
So there's like a, a mechanicalthing you gotta think about.
Right?
So like if you, we, when we wereeven at the experiment station, which
should be as close to like a perfectlycontrolled environment, they were talking
about like issues they were havingwith the power company, with like.
(25:51):
You know, is this wellworking or is this Yeah.
And like we gotta get somebodyto come out and check it.
Right.
Um, 'cause some of thatyou can't do yourself.
So I think what I'm coming back from this.
Specific experience is maybe notspecifically tied to rice, it's
around sort of the general concept.
I'm like, oh, that was so fun tolike take a deep dive and like pull
out all of my preconceived notionsand just experience something.
(26:13):
Uh, like I love that.
So I've spent a lot of mycareer in the corn belt.
And thinking about corn belteconomics and corn belt stuff.
I mean that Center of CommercialAgriculture, that's bulk of what we do.
Right?
Yeah.
what we do.
But I was like, oh, I need to getinto other kinds of agriculture.
Yeah.
Like we, we like on the way home, we werediscussing like, oh, it'd be cool to go
to California, see some permanent crops.
(26:35):
It'd be cool to go to.
Uh, out to Eastern Washington and seelike the dry land agriculture up there
or like, um, I'm like, oh, we shouldgo back to, I should go to, I've been
to Montana to go to the national parks,but I should go like just visit farms.
Yeah.
Um, that I was like, Iwanna do more of this.
That's a big part of it.
The other one, and I'm maybe should notsay this on the podcast, but I'm going to.
(26:58):
I learned a lot from the extension folks.
And sort of what would bekind of our colleagues.
And we did talk shop a little bitabout, about funding and grantsmanship
and hiring talent and all thethings we think about as academics.
But what I really loved was likewhen we hung out with the farmer
and talked about his experience, um.
(27:19):
Or like you mentioned, theDuck's Unlimited, right?
Yeah.
Or, or even the, the folks thatwere running the distillery Yeah.
About, you know, their farm andtheir production of, we went
on a tour of the distillery.
They told us their wholedistilling process.
Right.
That I was like, I need to spendmore time around practitioners
that are actually doing this stuff.
And then go talk to the academicsor think about the academics.
(27:39):
But I would like, I was like, man, likeit's, I wish I was doing more of that.
'cause I talked to, you know,other university type folks all
the time right here at Purdue.
Right When we travel around, I'll goto conferences and it's people like us.
Yeah.
From other departments, other colleges.
And I was like, man, I gottajust like spend more time.
And even like spending time with Colson.
(28:02):
And so he works in farmland investmentand was talking to us about like sort
of how they acquire properties, howthey go through like, like that part of
his job as a kind of a practitioner issomebody who studies land prices, right?
So, uh, I should probably mention I'mthe Schrader Chair in farmland economics.
I study land prices, right?
Yeah.
And I, I'm working right now on ourextension report about, um, which our
(28:24):
listeners will have already been able toread about Indiana land prices, right?
Mm-hmm.
Um, but like spending more time aroundthe practitioners working in that space.
Like I just wanna domore of it going forward.
If you think your place, oh mygosh, would be as beneficial to us
as this one was, get ahold of us.
And I think that's probably the biggesttakeaway from this entire series.
(28:46):
When I step outside of what I know,for me, the corn belt outside of
systems I'm familiar with, I startedto see how many different ways
there are to make agriculture work.
In the Delta.
It's water, it's rice, it's wildlife.
It's a completely different setof constraints and a completely
different set of solutions.
The underlying theme is the same.
Farmers are adapting.
They're managing risk, they'remaking decisions with the resources
(29:08):
they have, and they're buildingsystems that are designed to last.
And for us, this trip was a reminderthat if you really want to understand
agriculture, you gotta go see it.
You gotta talk to the people doing it,and you gotta be willing to challenge some
of your own assumptions along the way.
We had a lot of fun puttingthis series together and we
hope you found it valuable.
If you did, make sure you're subscribedto the Purdue Commercial Ag Cast.
(29:30):
We've got more conversationslike this coming.
Along with our regular AgEconomy Barometer updates.
Thanks for joining us forthe lessons from the Delta.
We'll see you next time.
I.
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