May 20, 2026 • 38 mins
Margins are tighter. Interest costs are higher. And many farms are discovering that profitability and cash flow are not the same thing.
In this episode of the Commercial AgCast, Chad Fiechter and Josh Strine sit down with John Maman of Nutrien Financial to talk about how strong operations manage cash flow, financing, operating lines, and input decisions in today’s farm economy.
This conversation goes beyond interest rates and loans. It focuses on the real financial decisions affecting:
- operating flexibility
- growth opportunities
- input purchases
- working capital
- profitability under pressure
You’ll learn:
- Why some profitable farms still struggle with cash
- How large operations think differently about financing
- When financing creates flexibility — and when it doesn’t
- The relationship between agronomy and profitability
- Why trusted advisors matter more during tight margins
- How farmers can reduce financial pressure without sacrificing productivity
John also shares insights from his background in agronomy, ag retail, and agricultural finance — along with practical ways growers can think more strategically about cash management during difficult cycles.
If you’re making crop input decisions, managing operating debt, or preparing for tighter margins ahead, this episode will help you think differently about the business side of farming.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You could be land rich, cash poor.
Yeah.
Right.
You could be cash flow positive and nothave any profitability, be upside down.
Everything has to be rooted in agronomics,but it has to, we have to find better ways
to pay for it, better ways to cash flow.
(00:22):
Welcome back to the Commercial AgCast.
This is our conversation series.
We're trying a little something new.
IE the light and a camera.
But we're here with a fun guest JohnMaman, who is the senior director for
North America for Nutrien Financial.
I'm here with Josh Stine as well.
And some of the listenermay recognize Josh.
Never before in person.
(00:43):
Not seen.
Not seen, yeah.
But recognize his voice.
John, can you tell us a little bit we werejust talking about sort of your background
and how you got to this position.
Can you tell us a little bitof the journey that brought
you to where you're at today?
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
It's been a long road and the roadstarted really two blocks just south of
here where I lived when I was in school.
(01:03):
I I graduated in 2003 with a degree inagronomy and a minor in plant pathology.
And was in more of the, theturf end of the ag business.
And worked on golf courses, rebuiltgolf courses, and as I did that, we,
we were facing more economic challengeswhere golf courses started to disappear.
(01:25):
I felt like I was in a really nice spot,um, but wanted to go back to school.
And so I went and I took a sales job,which was, uh, I not always met with
the, I get it, sentiment in the fieldwhen, with those that knew me, uh,
because of the places that I had, Ihad been, um, but wanted to go back to
graduate school and, and took a job asa sales professional selling equipment
(01:48):
around Chicago, Northern Indiana.
And, um, through that really developedan understanding that if I could provide
the right agronomics to help my customersbe successful and find better ways to
pay for it, I became really successful.
And you know, when I, when I went intosales, I would, I would always ask
people, how do you get into sales?
And they'd say, you don'thave sales experience.
(02:09):
And I thought, boy I stillfeel like I can do that.
But when I started to learn aboutthe financing end for better ways
to pay for it, and I asked thosesame questions and people told me,
you don't have financing experience.
I thought, boy, you got me there.
And that's when I went to graduate schooland after, after graduate school, I, um.
I took a flyer on a, on a postingfor a development role at, at John
(02:31):
Deere Financial and spent five yearsthere in the field in the agribusiness
channel, but learned how to underwritecredit structure, structure, large ag
leases spent time underwriting creditfor construction forestry, and then
uh, five years into it Agrium CropProduction Service is now Nutrien.
Came calling and had a unique idea thatthey wanted to start an in-house captive
(02:53):
finance business, and they needed somebodylike me to help start their, uh, field
facing presence across US and Canada.
Okay.
So you just hit, you just hit two, twobuzzwords that we're gonna come back to.
'cause I want to ask you to give us, forpeople who don't know who Nutrien is,
yep.
They probably should.
Can you tell us whoNutrien is and what you do?
Yeah, so Nutrien is the world'slargest ag retailer and, and
(03:15):
fertilizer producing company.
Uh, we have mines in Canadathat, that produce our potash.
We have phosphate mines, we havenitrogen production, and so it's
really a full end-to-end nitrogen.
Phosphorus, potassium fertilizer company,as well as the connection point to the
world's largest ag retailer with, um,retail brick and mortar stores that,
(03:35):
that sell seed, chemical fertilizerto our end East growers across the
United States, across Canada, southAmerica, and down in Australia as well.
Yeah,
I was just in Argentina last weekand there was someone from Nutrien,
Argentina that talked to us, so I thoughtit's like a funny full circle moment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's a big company, but it doesn't,it doesn't have to feel that way.
(03:57):
And, and you think, you, you askedthe question, how financing, well, we
started our internal financial servicesgroup as one other value added to our
customers to make sure that, that we'reproviding end-to-end recommendations
so that we take the tools and resourcesof a large company and make it feel.
Relevant for your turnrow, your acre, your farm.
So that we have, we have ourown seed breeding technology.
(04:20):
We have our proprietaryproducts, our Loveland products.
We have industry partnerships with allthe big strategic ag, uh, ag companies,
uh, for seed and chemistry that we, thatwe sell through our retail branches.
But we bring all of that value as, as one.
Company and Nutrien with our fertilizerproduction to the farm Gate so that
you have all the resources of a bigcompany that are relevant for your farm.
(04:43):
Yeah.
Okay.
So, why would a company like Nutrien, whoI assume makes a lot of money producing
fertilizer and having these ag retail,why, tell us why we need a captive
finance and what is captive financeand why does Nutrien Financial exist?
Yeah, Nutrien Financial exists becausewe want to be best in class with.
With our core competencies andselling agronomics and inputs to our
(05:05):
customers is the core competency.
If, if our customers aren't successful,we're not successful, and selling those
inputs and delivering that agronomicvalue is just one piece of the pyramid.
We still have to beprofitable along the way.
We have to be able to offer terms,rates and incentives that are
relevant for the business thatmatch cash flows of our customers.
And, and that's where NutrientFinancial really sits.
(05:27):
It's, it's been a, it'san amazing journey.
Our, our people that havebeen able to build this group
alongside myself and others.
Uh, really delivering a whiteglove service to our customers.
Where we have territory managers thatare situated across, north America.
I have a, I have a counterpart inAustralia that has a field team where
we can pair field driven agronomics withfield driven economics and take some
(05:50):
of the guesswork out of these industryprograms that seem complex and make
them relevant for the crop types andcash flows that our customers have.
Because again, at the end of theday, our customers have to yield.
I have to have the right agronomy, but wehave to have the right ways to pay for it.
And, and I learned that again a longtime ago when I first went into sales
as a, as a struggling salesperson,pulling a, a long trailer around the
(06:12):
Indiana Toll Road in areas of Chicagothat, uh, most people didn't show up in.
Just to be able to serve mycustomers at that time, my career.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, uh, um, this is a tangentialpoint, but so the people who said
you don't have finance experience.
Walk us through that now, right?
Where you, you've done thiswork for nearly 15 years, right?
(06:36):
Yeah.
Were they Right?
Was it, uh, maybe paintingwith too broad of a brush.
What, what do you think now?
'cause sometimes finance can feellike a club where you gotta be
part of the club before you canstart talking about the club.
Yeah.
And the club.
Maybe you have a finance vest,you have other stuff on it.
Yeah.
You, you know, you need,you need to have Right.
I'm, I'm wearing it.
Yeah.
You, you're, you're step one from,
(06:56):
I know I don't have on the right shoes.
I don't have the right shoes,but I'm, I got the vest.
Well, ag finance is differentthan regular finance.
It's true.
You show up with dress shoes in an agplot, you're gonna ruin some nice shoes.
Were they right?
Did you not have the skills?
Did you not have the knowledge?
Uh, how do you think of it now?
They were absolutely right.
Um, one of the struggles I had was whenI used to ask do you have sales openings?
(07:18):
When I was interested in knowing thatI wanted to go back to graduate school
and just by default of the role that Ihad, I, I was responsible for, people
and, and for part of a golf club that,that had expectations to membership.
That was that were very high.
You know, every day had to bea US open kind of situation.
And so when I asked about salesexperience, that's the first piece
(07:39):
that struck me odd is like, well,how do you get sales experience
without getting sales experience?
The individual that gave me a chance,I'm very grateful to and recognized
that, um, he could teach people.
As long as you have the right work ethic.
And that's the piece that I took withme is that, that when I asked the second
question about how do you get financeexperience without having finance
experience, I thought, boy, I'm missingsome of the functional capabilities
(08:01):
that I needed, uh, educationallyjust around finance credit being in
that business that I really neededto go back to graduate school for.
Uh, I could get sales experience withouthaving sales experience, but I couldn't
get the finance experience without that.
But it's interesting afterI did that and I went.
And I went and I worked atDeere and Company and learned
how to underwrite credit.
Um, I learned that as I built more ofa field team to help our customers,
(08:26):
that we had to be cross-functional.
We had to have people that hadagronomy backgrounds, people that
had credit backgrounds, peoplethat had finance backgrounds.
And the team that, that I'm blessed to,to lead within, within Nutrient Financial
really comes from a myriad of backgrounds.
But it's always rooted in that, thatfirst thought that I, I, that struck
me when I tried to get into a newindustry was you can't teach work ethic.
(08:50):
That's the piece that I think, whetheryou're a student here at Purdue, whether
you're a mid-career professional like Iwas when I tried to transfer into more
of a development program, uh, aftergraduate school, or whether you're.
Uh, leading a team of individuals in, ina, in a very large business across a large
geography is I can teach somebody there'sthe right work, work ethic, anything
they wanna know, but I can't get themto want to get up and make a difference
(09:14):
for our customers on a daily basis.
And that's what I love most about thisindustry, is we have a team of people
that are dedicated to the outcomes ofour customers that, uh, live with a
higher purpose to serve agriculture.
Yeah.
That's cool.
What are the tasks that you do ona daily basis in your current role?
So my current role manages our fieldteam that focuses on, again, the right
(09:39):
field driven economics, paired with ournutri Ag, ag solutions, crock consultants
that are out representing the agronomic.
Portion of our business.
I also manage, uh, our strategicsupplier relationships for the finance
business where we have financingprograms that are very promotional
in the marketplace, that focus on, onpositioning the right products, uh, for
(09:59):
seed and chemistry into the marketplacethat are at, at very low rates.
Sometimes 0%, sometimes 1%, sometimes,you know, usually below a prime rate.
Sure.
Um, that help our growers cash flow.
And so.
My group develops those programs, bringthem, brings the programs to marketplace.
Mm-hmm.
And then has a dedicated team ofindividuals that are out there helping
(10:22):
to take the guesswork out of thosebuild crop plans that align with, uh, an
agronomic cropping plan and an economiccropping plan to help our growers.
Whether, whether commodity prices aregreat, whether operational costs are low,
or whether we're in times like we areright now, where we, we see the, the.
The opposite in both of those.
So this is something that I didn'tknow until I was in graduate school,
(10:44):
sort of like the value of if you canget commitments early and you can
get people to sort of, you know, buyseeding fertilizer early, you, it helps
sort of the, the cash flow within abusiness like a agribusiness, right?
It helps the whole industryflow better, right?
Sure.
'cause a lot of these programsreward commitment to brands and
they also reward, a timely paymentor they, or they reward planning.
(11:04):
Sure.
And when we look at where discountscan be had, where profit can be
made it, it's in the yield monitor.
And it's in how we manage theexpenses and how we manage the cash
flows of an operation throughoutinevitably an annual cycle in
agriculture from planting to harvest.
So I think one of the things Ifind interesting is there's not
really smoke and mirrors, right?
(11:25):
There's not, you're not there.
There's no magic behind it.
You're saying we're willing to sortof give you these favorable rates
if you're willing to commit early.
And is that kind of how youthink through designing programs?
Well, and it's in partnership witha lot of our suppliers, but yes.
And, and it's also the conversationof cash has to be managed, right?
How do we blend the best aspects of cash,prepay and financing so that you as,
(11:48):
as a grower, as as a farmer, have allof the knowledge and resources at your
fingertips to make the best decision.
It's not to use financing, just'cause we have great programs.
It's to use financing.
If you can help.
Make inroads in your, in yourcash management and your capital
management strategies so that, uh,you know, we, we offer financing
to people that need financing.
(12:09):
But for the biggest and largestgrowers, uh, A CFO will never
need to know where they can find.
Value in additional 25 basispoints or 2% in an interest rate,
right?
Those large companies as welluse cash as another commodity.
And if you can help them managetheir cash flow appropriately, you
become, again, another indispensablepart of that relationship.
(12:31):
It's interesting.
I, I always tell our team andI, I tell others that, um, our,
our conversation doesn't change.
It's always focused on how we providenew and innovative ways to help our
customers find value in the marketplace.
The location does.
The location could be at a, at a smalltable like this in, in a, in a farmhouse
Sure.
Where there's dogs and kids runningaround me like, like I'm at home.
(12:55):
Or it could be in a largecorporate farm where you have
chief executive teams sitting downin front of you asking questions.
The location changes, but the conversationaround value for that specific
operation is always focused on theindividualized needs of our customers.
And so that's one of the really uniquepieces that I think is, is important.
It it, every operation rather largeor small or heavily integrated, always
(13:19):
has, um, pieces that, that are unknowns.
And so those operations, they all havedef different definitions of success.
And what good looks like.
Yeah.
Um, the path to successis not always linear.
It, you have to do a lot of little things.
Right.
And that's why Nutrien has sucha vertically integrated business
with, with proprietary products,financing, fertilizer production,
(13:41):
retail organization, because ourcustomers operations are complex too.
Yeah.
And if we can help them at every turn,we provide value beyond just a price.
We provide value beyond just a product.
And it's that relationship, thosepowerful partnerships that come
into play, especially in agronomic,uh, or economic times like we see
now that can provide the best valuefor our customers on a daily basis.
(14:04):
Yeah.
I think I've lost all the questions.
Do you have a question you wanna ask?
Yeah.
So you've, you've talked about thefinancing and maybe that credit market.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and Chad has done a lot of work onit and I'm starting to do some on it too.
And one thing that comesup a lot is competition.
Yeah.
And you mentioned earlier, and wehad some conversations last fall,
some other people as well that.
(14:24):
Really, it's not all competition.
We, we hear about the fights between thecommercial banks and the, uh, farm credit
system, and we, we have other lenderswith Nutrien or, and you mentioned Deer
and Co, but that's not always the case.
There's some, also some synergyand some cooperation between them.
Mm-hmm.
Could you maybe expand on whatthat looks like and how that
can help farmers or producers?
Yeah.
It's important to really define those,those tranches of sources of, of credit
(14:49):
or lines of credit an operating line.
Which is usually secured through,through a bank or your local lender
is the lifeblood of an operation.
Uh, that's that local relationshipand partnership you have with your
banker where you can use that, thatoperating line to be able to buy inputs.
You can use it to buy equipment, you canuse it to manage your labor force by land.
(15:13):
Um.
That allows you ultimate flexibility.
Secondary lines of credit can includenutrient financial for inputs.
It, it can include equipment lending that,that are part of captive organizations
where you can finance a paint colorwith financing that are complimentary.
Those provide.
Best in class options because thosecompanies are dedicated to finding
(15:34):
ways, just like nutrient financialand nutrient ag solutions to find
better ways to help our growers.
And so when we look at, at how nutrientfinancial sits in that marketplace
we're, we're generally unsecured inthe market, which means that we're
not taking those crop liens thatwould encumber the operating line,
which is usually the hardest thingon a grower is when you have multiple
(15:56):
different liens or, or blanket liens.
On an operation because then it inhibitsthe flexibility to go get, uh, to go buy
other, other products, other servicesthat you need throughout the year.
And so, over, over my nine yearswith close to nine years with, with
Nutrien, I've seen the dynamic shift.
I've seen, um, banks start to recommendsay, this is really a good thing because
(16:17):
banks aren't gonna necessarily lend ahundred percent of the, the farming needs.
We hear that as, as tightening.
Uh, occurs in the marketplace.
We've partnered really well in somecases where, where the local banks
say This is, this is a good dealbecause it frees up the operating line.
And, and what does that accomplishif you free up your operating line?
It sounds counterintuitive.
Well, for a, for a grower, it allowsyou to make decisions, even in a down
(16:38):
market to be more profitable or to growbecause we hear doom and gloom with
low commodity prices, high operationalcosts, you know, five years of, of
rapid inflation in the marketplace.
But somebody's gonna be profitable.
Somebody who's gonna grow, somebodyhas plans to be able to do more
than just exist in this marketplace.
That operating line is there to beable to help functionally free up
(17:00):
the cash flow You need to be able togrow, to be able to buy more land,
to be able to build something thatthat allows you better access to.
Liquidity or profitabilityin your operation.
And so, just to circle back, nutrientfinancial is, is quite complimentary
because we're not taking those, thoseliens in most cases we're, we're
unsecured, we're complimentary for theinputs and our core competency that
(17:20):
we sell through nutrient ag solutions,just like equipment manufacturers are.
Our core competency is, is.
Financing or, or selling theequipment that, that they use
in, in agricultural production.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I, I wanna ask you aboutsort of your perspective, right?
So, so now you sit on the sidewhere you see the demand for credit
(17:40):
mm-hmm.
From your customers, right?
So what, what are you seeing?
Like what are the trends?
I think we, you, you alluded to thefact there's this doom and gloom.
Like we, you'd have to be hidingunder a rock to sort of, uh, not
have some awareness that currentlyproduction agriculture of row crops
is in a unique, maybe not unique, sortof like historically, but unique as
(18:01):
far as in the last few years we're,we're at an, an interesting point.
Tell us about your perspectivefrom Nutrient Financial.
Yeah.
So it's, it's a trough market.
It.
And I, I made a, I made acomment about a year ago.
I was on a podcast.
We were talking about economics and,and if you have economics background,
the first thing maybe an economistwould say was, well, this is cyclical.
(18:22):
But for growers who are in thismarketplace within the last five
years, cyclical wasn't familiarbecause they hadn't seen such a
rapid rise in interest rates since.
They were children.
Yeah.
And so what's cyclical from an ageconomist is not always felt and
(18:45):
managed the same way by a farmer who'sanywhere from 20 to 40 years old.
Yeah.
If you live through the eighties,you might say, this is cyclical.
Sure.
And so that's, that's really the firststep, uh, is understanding the, uh,
the ag econ trends versus more ofthe facts and feelings of, of what.
(19:06):
A grower's going through in thismarketplace based on how many years
they've had a chance to put out a crop.
The second piece is that, uh,what people always compare,
well, is this like the eighties?
Mm-hmm.
No, it wasn't because landvalues were low in the eighties.
Land values are very, very high still.
Yeah.
And so our customers are facinginward pressure from high operational
costs, low commodity prices comingoff of really, the last three,
(19:32):
four years of, of rapid inflation.
Now, before that, it was some of thebest times in agriculture, right?
High commodity prices, low interestrates, but a lot of the interest
rate adjustments we've seen.
So we, we've dropped maybe a half pointover the last year in Prime and over
the last, uh, two, three years, it'sbeen about another one and three quarter
percent since we are at the peak of, ofinterest rates about three years ago.
(19:56):
But a lot of those adjustments were mademaybe in the fall of this last year.
And so that's after on an annualcycle, growers have carried at a
higher rate on a, on an operating linethat's variable in nature, not fixed.
Yeah.
Uh, and so those pressures accumulateover the course of a year versus
over months within other businesses,cash flow in an ag cycle is annual,
(20:17):
uh, versus maybe a constructioncompany that has work in progress
on a monthly basis to buffer that.
And so those are really some of the, theeconomic trends that we see is, is helping
to manage through high operational costs.
Low commodity prices after multipleconsistent years of both of those
occurring while we had rapid inflation.
(20:37):
Yeah.
Okay.
So do you see, 'cause this is aconversation we've been having,
do you see regional differencessort of in the way, like crop type
crop mixes production practices?
Like, you know, we, I don't know ifyou manage nutrient financial in sort
of regions, but do you see differencesamong sort of production regions
of the United States and Canada?
For sure.
Right.
And then there are quite, quitea bit of difference between even
(21:00):
the United States and Canada.
And so first off, at a, at a regionalfocus, uh, if you just look at crop
types cotton is, is struggling, cottonproduction is is there's gonna be
some areas regionally it's cotton.
It's gonna be cotton.
Yeah.
Right.
Are you gonna West Texas?
It's cotton,
it's gonna be cotton.
And those prices are, are hard asa function of just a. Commodity
(21:23):
prices and operational costs andum, and then you get into just kind
of the debate on corn, soybeans.
Obviously there's, this is a corn yearfrom everything we're seeing with USDA
but cotton is a challenge regionally.
Um, there's some areas thatyou can rotate in peanuts.
Peanuts have been a consistent staple.
Uh, you get out west into permanentcrops, so much can change based on just.
(21:46):
Snowfall and water that, that's impacting.
Um, you know, the, the Sierrasare getting record snowfalls,
but in Colorado a lot less.
And you get into certain areas there withmore permanent crops and it's, it's based
on water rights and, and availabilityto water and then temperatures.
And then you get through all thosedifferent variables and you get to
(22:06):
planting and even if you can getthrough some of the dynamics with, with
commodity prices, last year we, we got.
Time to get into the fieldand then it just rained.
And then, so there are areas in the souththat, that had to preventative plant
or didn't necessarily get crops in, inenough time to be able to, uh, to harvest
regardless of whatever plan they had.
Yeah.
And so that goes back again, economically.
(22:28):
You think about, wow, there's all thesechallenges facing, facing a farmer and
facing just what, what, what they dealwith on a daily basis, on a monthly
basis throughout that, that, that year.
And that's where it comes backto making sure that, that if you.
Every year you build that agronomicplan and that plan inevitably changes.
(22:49):
So too should your plan to cashflow that your economic plan.
And that's been the biggestopportunity we've had within
Nutrient Financial to shed light on.
Those two need to operatesynergistically and they need
to change and, and be reviewedmultiple times throughout the year.
Okay.
What would your recommendations be togrowers in, in sort of how they think
(23:13):
through offerings from nutrient financialspecifically, but others who are providing
financing in a, in a captive way?
Ask questions and surround yourselfwith trusted advisors that are
in, as invested in the outcomesthat you need for your farm.
Yeah.
As they are.
So they need to be, as investedin your outcomes as you are,
(23:34):
is a better way to say it.
And that those are rare,those are uncommon, right?
Use those trusted partnershipsto be able to sit down and review
these plans throughout the year.
Make sure you're, you're maximizingcash flow, you're maximizing.
Profitability at the same time.
'cause there's differences between the twoand, and making sure that, uh, you build
the plan and revisit the plan throughoutthe year so that you have peace of mind.
(23:57):
Because we just talked for a long timehow many things can change in a year.
Yeah.
Right.
And how many pressuresour, our growers face.
Taking a few of those piecesout of the mix and knowing that
you have plans, contingencies
Sure.
And opportunities to be able toaddress any pressure, whether it's
agronomic, whether it's weather related.
Is, is really the biggest,is the biggest piece.
It comes down to people managingthose relationships with each other.
(24:20):
What do you think is thelowest hanging fruit?
Like what's the, if someone's feelingoverwhelmed, uh, what would be the first
thing that you'd be like, here's thefirst thing I would try do this task?
That's a great question, becausethis can be overwhelming, right?
Mm-hmm.
I mentioned, I, I came from anagronomy degree and went into finance.
Yeah.
And I see that with, with people that arein the field helping to position this.
They'd say, well, John, Idon't have your background.
(24:42):
I, this is foreign to me.
I'd say, well, what's your background?
Agronomy?
I'd say, great.
So is mine.
Yeah.
Right.
What's your, what's your excuse now?
But those are real challenges.
Mm-hmm.
And for our growers and, and for anybody,even a student at Purdue, the further you
get from your degree, the more you managepeople and money, that's number one.
From there, it's making sure that youhave the right communication practices
(25:06):
to your people and the right avenuesto be able to maximize your money.
So for our growers, it comes down tomaking sure you take the guesswork
out of all these programs, ifit's an equipment example, what's
best for you in your operation?
Do you lease?
Do you use installments?
Maybe you use a combination of both.
(25:27):
And you probably should.
Do you pay cash for certainaspects of your equipment?
From an input perspective where canyou, where can you prepay and maximize
prepay from a, a pricing position?
Well, you see certain markets fluctuateon, on product shelves more than others.
Fertilizer markets may fluctuate morethan, than, uh, seed or crop protection
(25:48):
markets, so use cash to maximizeyour advantage for those purchases.
Use alternative lines of capital.
To be able to supplement youroperating line with best in class
rates for those specific products.
But then look back at your operatingline now that your borrowing
base has expanded and say, is myoperation in the right right place?
(26:09):
Is my labor in the right place?
Do I have any fears?
Whether it's just driving a truck downthe road or getting people to help
me harvest, or the areas I can grow?
And it's looking at that andit should include, you know.
Equipment inputs your, your local bank.
It should include other trustedadvisors in your operation.
And we haven't even touched onsuccession planning or, or families
(26:30):
that farm together and how that dynamicimpacts the outcome of the farm.
That's part
podcast, part two.
We'll, we'll come back to that onebut all of those are weighing on any
individual operation, whether it'sa corporate farm or a family farm.
But it starts number one.
With that agronomic plan, take thatagronomic plan and say, is this the
(26:50):
right seed chem for that we need, dowe have the right equipment in place?
Do we have the right ways to payfor that and build out from there?
And, and it takes something that canseem so daunting and it simplifies it
and it brings, it brings everybody backthat, that have escalated in the career,
that managed more people, more moneyback to the thing they love the most.
(27:11):
And that's farming.
So you, you, you begin with the endin mind, but you start with what
brought you into this industry.
And that's just being out in thefield and knowing that you have
so many years to raise a crop.
That's what you're goodat, that's what you love.
And then connect in from there sothat you, you, you connect the right
resources to what you love the most.
And then it doesn't seem so, so hard.
(27:32):
It's no different than if I have to trainsomebody on, on our team that comes in.
I mentioned they might come inwith a sales background and,
and as a crop consultant, theymight come in with credit.
We build the training around thefunctional skills that people
are most comfortable with.
So if somebody comes in from credit orfinance, let's teach you how you can
make a difference from our customersbecause you have finance knowledge.
(27:52):
Then we'll teach you the products.
Sure.
If you come in as a product expert,let's teach you about the products,
then we'll teach you about.
The other ways you can help managecash flow with those products.
For our farmers, it alwaysbegins with agronomics.
So take that plan, look at it andsay, am I applying the right products?
Is it the right timing?
If something changes,is this the right mix?
How do I pay for that?
What's the best way?
(28:12):
Cash, prepaid financing.
Do I use an operating line?
Do I use cash?
Do I use alternative lines of credit?
And it really buildsthat tree out from there.
Josh, you got any questions?
So you've, you've talked aboutthe chemicals and fertilization
or fertilizer, Nutrien.
I've played a lot of golf andI always see a lot of equipment
out on golf courses spraying.
(28:33):
Does Nutrien do anything with golf coursesor they, do you have any relationship or?
We do a hundred percent and we havecertain areas of the country in the
northeast and, and then in the west.
That, uh, has, has more of agolf and turf relationship.
There's some close colleagues thatmanage those, uh, relationships
for the turf and ornamental piece.
And then there's a wholesale aspectwhere, um, some of those companies
might buy some of the products thatwe produce, fertilizer and otherwise
(28:56):
that, that will go into thoseindustries or a proprietary products.
And so it really is a multifacetedapproach to be able to reach
multiple different markets.
Interesting.
Okay.
So farmers are taking it to yield.
Right.
That's the, the measure of success.
So you're managing turf.
What is your metric ofsuccess as a turf manager?
(29:22):
That's a great question.
There's some really good professors justthree doors down that could probably
answer this better than myself, like Dr.
Bigelow and Dr. Pattonin a turf environment.
I would say you strive to have thosetournament level conditions every day.
So the litmus test is to really not haveone of those off days because you're,
(29:45):
you're managing to such thin toleranceson everything that, um, you need to make
sure that every day is a championship.
And if, if.
If it's not a championship day,that means it's an off day.
That's kind of whatyou're managing against.
So how do you, how do you knowif it's not a championship day?
Is it just the amount of people whocome into the clubhouse and say,
man, it was rough out there today?
No.
(30:05):
You can manage certain things like greenspeeds and make sure your greens and,
and firmness and play playing conditions.
And really it comes down to howyou want the course to play.
Right.
Wow.
And, and how you want it to look.
And there's, there's so muchdedication that, uh, we could do a
whole other end with, with the turf,the turf end of the business, but.
Golf course superintendents are,are, are unheralded heroes in that
(30:27):
industry that spend so much timecultivating stuff for people to come
out and enjoy in their off time.
And to be able to walk out and seehow long it takes to make a course,
produce a tournament is amazing.
Uh, the year I was an intern for USopen, uh, I worked all summer, every day.
(30:49):
The only day off I had wasthe day after the tournament.
Wow.
And, and the week, the week before.
And the week of, I, I only rememberthis because I was making nine bucks
an hour and I thought I was richat, at the end of the tournament.
I worked 198 hours in two weeks.
Wow.
Wow.
Clocked in.
Not at the coffee pot, but clocked in.
Yeah,
like working, but that workbuilt up that whole summer.
(31:13):
But it built up the years priorto that to be able to prepare the
course for a major championship.
And the level of work that I gotwhen I got there as an intern, that
team had been working on for three tofive years previously, and they had
hosted the US senior open before that.
(31:33):
Uh, where they had renovated things.
And so when you look at, um, at thosecertain US Open courses, yeah, they could
probably, they could probably have atournament like that any day because those
are the, the courses that are preparedthe best, that are that way every day.
But even those courses takea world of, uh, prep work.
Oakmont hosted the US Open last year.
(31:54):
Yeah.
And,
and just the nerd in me waswatching some of the YouTubers that
would go out and play the course.
And I remember this like it was yesterday.
They were push mowing the whole,the rough and the whole course
because commercial mowers can'tmow at the length of us open rough.
And they'll just knock it over and thenthe wheels will, will roll the turf down.
(32:16):
And so in the back when I was watching allthese YouTubers try to break par or shoot
a certain score on a US open course withclose to us open conditions, I saw the um.
The crew of interns and, and, andteam like 12 thick and like a snake
pattern throughout the course.
Push mowing with, with rotary mowers.
(32:36):
The rough on the entire golf course,
the rotary mowers
rot, like, like your holding push mowerbecause you could set that up a lot higher
and fabricate it than, than taking a bigcommercial mower and trying to mow that.
Wow.
And so I remember doing that.
We had push mowing crews becausewe got to a point where the rough
had to be at a certain certainheight before a tournament.
Where we push mow the entire golfcourse in addition to the fairways,
(33:00):
greens tees, all the normal maintenancepractices there where you'd walk
mower or, or have riding mowers, but.
We had crews that would push mow the roughfor the month or two up until the US open.
And then we had volunteers from around theworld that were leading superintendents
in their own right that would comein for a week or two to volunteer, to
fill divots to R bunkers, to cut cups.
(33:21):
But some of those,
wow,
some of those superintendentsin the evening jobs, they'd fill
divots and they'd fluff rough.
We had people that would go aroundwith rakes just to fluff the rough
back up because in the US open, theexpectation is to have thick, rough
Wow.
And so the level of attention to detailthat goes into, into that is, is, uh,
different than anything I've ever seen.
And that's where, again, the work ethicis learned through roles like that.
(33:45):
But farming is the same way.
You think about the people that,that, that feed the world and
they're up before the lights are on.
Before the world gets going, andoftentimes in the fall they're up
after the world has has fallen asleepafter they've had dinner that's been
(34:06):
provided by those that are farming.
They're still out there in the combine.
The lights are still on.
They're rolling up and down.
Up and down the, the, the turn rows.
And I thought about that and I said,well, how does, how does a company
like Nutrien fit into that same mix.
This last fall.
One of the coolest things I've ever gottento do in my career is I got to go 3000
feet down into a potash mine and see inSaskatchewan and see our, our colleagues
(34:33):
at Nutrien pulling rock out of, out ofthe earth, sending it up into a millions.
Plant having it processed sixhours later in a rail car down
the road is a finished product.
And, and realizing that there's adefinite connection point there because
those mines, uh, at Nutrien are open24 hours a day, seven days a week.
(34:56):
And if you're on a holiday, if you'resleeping in, there's always somebody
down there working and groups ofpeople working to be able to pull that
potash out of those mines no differentthan our farmers are up at different
hours, monitoring crops, sprayingcrops, doing all of the things to
be able to provide that output for
For everybody else that, that may notrecognize to be able to feed the world.
(35:18):
And so, it's a noble cause.
It's one that I think, um.
Not of people, not a lot of peopleknow about, but whether you are
a golf course superintendentraising a turf crop, essentially
mm-hmm.
Or you're, you're a farmer raisingcorn, soybeans or uh, permanent crops.
That level of service is whatmakes our industry great.
(35:39):
Yeah, man.
Thanks, John.
Josh, I wanna give you a chance.
Do you get any other questions?
No, but John mentioned that successmaybe on the golf course was measured
and it being tournament ready.
I think from a golfer end,success is probably inverse of if
the course is tournament ready.
If I show up at a tournament readycourse, it's not gonna be a good day.
I know, I didn't realize, I didn'trealize that the rough had to be
like, I don't think I've ever noticedthat the rough had to be longer.
(36:04):
I,
well, you watch a US open and, andit's different for tournaments.
I, I remember walking around.
I'm thinking, boy, this roughdoesn't look that long, but it was so
evenly cut and the people next to me
Yeah.
Didn't have feet, couldn't see their feet.
Yeah.
Right.
And I would drop a full size waterbottle into the rough and the label would
be missing because it'd show the cat.
It's
unbelievable.
And so, yeah.
(36:25):
There's, there's a lot ofdamage that golfers Yeah.
Do on the weekends of these tournaments.
But you have, you have agreat example here on campus.
You've hosted men's andwomen's NCAA championships.
Yeah.
Back when I was here, I worked some ofthe fall previews for those tournaments
and the level of work that goes intothat, not, we don't even want to
get into the football field Yeah.
Of how you're, you're growing a, a warmseason grass that you would see down in
(36:50):
Florida on your football field in Indiana.
And the research that Dr. Bigelowand Dr. Patton and others in the
turf program did to be able to grow aBermuda grass field and oversee it into
rye so that you don't tear things up.
The agronomic reasons why you can,there was a game this fall and, and,
um, one of the, um, professors noted,or one of the announcers noted that,
(37:10):
uh, this field is bone dry afterlike two or three inches of rain.
Well, that's the pat systemthat allows the, the underground
drainage in, in the field over here.
But, but also it's because youraise a warm season grass all
summer, you get rooting depth.
So the players.
The, you know, the big, the big monstersthat are out there on the offensive and
defensive line aren't tearing things up.
(37:32):
There's purpose behind that, that,that, uh, if you came out of this
program, you watched the field andyou watched the way the field plays.
Yeah.
And those people are the heroes becausethe turf looks beautiful after those
games because of the research that youdo here as Purdue University, as a land
grain institution that transfers intoall areas of agriculture, and that's.
(37:53):
I think, you know, just to sum thisup, I, I look at my time here and
whether you're a student or, or you're,you're far from it and graduated.
You'll appreciate this time heremore and more as you learn what
this institution is and the waythe, uh, the research and field work
ties into outcomes in the field.
(38:15):
And it makes that extension work, itconnects industry with academia and it's,
it's a true, pure way to be able to fosterinnovation in the world of agriculture.
Yeah, man.
Thanks so much John.
Thanks for being willing to drive up tocampus and give us some of your time.
I've learned a lot andI really appreciate it.
Yeah, let's do this again.
(38:36):
This is great.
You could be land rich, cash poor.
Yeah.
Right.
You could be cash flow positive and nothave any profitability, be upside down.
Everything has to be rooted in agronomics,but it has to, we have to find better ways
to pay for it, better ways to cash flow.
(00:22):
Welcome back to the Commercial AgCast.
This is our conversation series.
We're trying a little something new.
IE the light and a camera.
But we're here with a fun guest JohnMaman, who is the senior director for
North America for Nutrien Financial.
I'm here with Josh Stine as well.
And some of the listenermay recognize Josh.
Never before in person.
(00:43):
Not seen.
Not seen, yeah.
But recognize his voice.
John, can you tell us a little bit we werejust talking about sort of your background
and how you got to this position.
Can you tell us a little bitof the journey that brought
you to where you're at today?
Absolutely.
Thanks for having me.
It's been a long road and the roadstarted really two blocks just south of
here where I lived when I was in school.
(01:03):
I I graduated in 2003 with a degree inagronomy and a minor in plant pathology.
And was in more of the, theturf end of the ag business.
And worked on golf courses, rebuiltgolf courses, and as I did that, we,
we were facing more economic challengeswhere golf courses started to disappear.
(01:25):
I felt like I was in a really nice spot,um, but wanted to go back to school.
And so I went and I took a sales job,which was, uh, I not always met with
the, I get it, sentiment in the fieldwhen, with those that knew me, uh,
because of the places that I had, Ihad been, um, but wanted to go back to
graduate school and, and took a job asa sales professional selling equipment
(01:48):
around Chicago, Northern Indiana.
And, um, through that really developedan understanding that if I could provide
the right agronomics to help my customersbe successful and find better ways to
pay for it, I became really successful.
And you know, when I, when I went intosales, I would, I would always ask
people, how do you get into sales?
And they'd say, you don'thave sales experience.
(02:09):
And I thought, boy I stillfeel like I can do that.
But when I started to learn aboutthe financing end for better ways
to pay for it, and I asked thosesame questions and people told me,
you don't have financing experience.
I thought, boy, you got me there.
And that's when I went to graduate schooland after, after graduate school, I, um.
I took a flyer on a, on a postingfor a development role at, at John
(02:31):
Deere Financial and spent five yearsthere in the field in the agribusiness
channel, but learned how to underwritecredit structure, structure, large ag
leases spent time underwriting creditfor construction forestry, and then
uh, five years into it Agrium CropProduction Service is now Nutrien.
Came calling and had a unique idea thatthey wanted to start an in-house captive
(02:53):
finance business, and they needed somebodylike me to help start their, uh, field
facing presence across US and Canada.
Okay.
So you just hit, you just hit two, twobuzzwords that we're gonna come back to.
'cause I want to ask you to give us, forpeople who don't know who Nutrien is,
yep.
They probably should.
Can you tell us whoNutrien is and what you do?
Yeah, so Nutrien is the world'slargest ag retailer and, and
(03:15):
fertilizer producing company.
Uh, we have mines in Canadathat, that produce our potash.
We have phosphate mines, we havenitrogen production, and so it's
really a full end-to-end nitrogen.
Phosphorus, potassium fertilizer company,as well as the connection point to the
world's largest ag retailer with, um,retail brick and mortar stores that,
(03:35):
that sell seed, chemical fertilizerto our end East growers across the
United States, across Canada, southAmerica, and down in Australia as well.
Yeah,
I was just in Argentina last weekand there was someone from Nutrien,
Argentina that talked to us, so I thoughtit's like a funny full circle moment.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's, it's a big company, but it doesn't,it doesn't have to feel that way.
(03:57):
And, and you think, you, you askedthe question, how financing, well, we
started our internal financial servicesgroup as one other value added to our
customers to make sure that, that we'reproviding end-to-end recommendations
so that we take the tools and resourcesof a large company and make it feel.
Relevant for your turnrow, your acre, your farm.
So that we have, we have ourown seed breeding technology.
(04:20):
We have our proprietaryproducts, our Loveland products.
We have industry partnerships with allthe big strategic ag, uh, ag companies,
uh, for seed and chemistry that we, thatwe sell through our retail branches.
But we bring all of that value as, as one.
Company and Nutrien with our fertilizerproduction to the farm Gate so that
you have all the resources of a bigcompany that are relevant for your farm.
(04:43):
Yeah.
Okay.
So, why would a company like Nutrien, whoI assume makes a lot of money producing
fertilizer and having these ag retail,why, tell us why we need a captive
finance and what is captive financeand why does Nutrien Financial exist?
Yeah, Nutrien Financial exists becausewe want to be best in class with.
With our core competencies andselling agronomics and inputs to our
(05:05):
customers is the core competency.
If, if our customers aren't successful,we're not successful, and selling those
inputs and delivering that agronomicvalue is just one piece of the pyramid.
We still have to beprofitable along the way.
We have to be able to offer terms,rates and incentives that are
relevant for the business thatmatch cash flows of our customers.
And, and that's where NutrientFinancial really sits.
(05:27):
It's, it's been a, it'san amazing journey.
Our, our people that havebeen able to build this group
alongside myself and others.
Uh, really delivering a whiteglove service to our customers.
Where we have territory managers thatare situated across, north America.
I have a, I have a counterpart inAustralia that has a field team where
we can pair field driven agronomics withfield driven economics and take some
(05:50):
of the guesswork out of these industryprograms that seem complex and make
them relevant for the crop types andcash flows that our customers have.
Because again, at the end of theday, our customers have to yield.
I have to have the right agronomy, but wehave to have the right ways to pay for it.
And, and I learned that again a longtime ago when I first went into sales
as a, as a struggling salesperson,pulling a, a long trailer around the
(06:12):
Indiana Toll Road in areas of Chicagothat, uh, most people didn't show up in.
Just to be able to serve mycustomers at that time, my career.
Yeah.
Okay.
So, uh, um, this is a tangentialpoint, but so the people who said
you don't have finance experience.
Walk us through that now, right?
Where you, you've done thiswork for nearly 15 years, right?
(06:36):
Yeah.
Were they Right?
Was it, uh, maybe paintingwith too broad of a brush.
What, what do you think now?
'cause sometimes finance can feellike a club where you gotta be
part of the club before you canstart talking about the club.
Yeah.
And the club.
Maybe you have a finance vest,you have other stuff on it.
Yeah.
You, you know, you need,you need to have Right.
I'm, I'm wearing it.
Yeah.
You, you're, you're step one from,
(06:56):
I know I don't have on the right shoes.
I don't have the right shoes,but I'm, I got the vest.
Well, ag finance is differentthan regular finance.
It's true.
You show up with dress shoes in an agplot, you're gonna ruin some nice shoes.
Were they right?
Did you not have the skills?
Did you not have the knowledge?
Uh, how do you think of it now?
They were absolutely right.
Um, one of the struggles I had was whenI used to ask do you have sales openings?
(07:18):
When I was interested in knowing thatI wanted to go back to graduate school
and just by default of the role that Ihad, I, I was responsible for, people
and, and for part of a golf club that,that had expectations to membership.
That was that were very high.
You know, every day had to bea US open kind of situation.
And so when I asked about salesexperience, that's the first piece
(07:39):
that struck me odd is like, well,how do you get sales experience
without getting sales experience?
The individual that gave me a chance,I'm very grateful to and recognized
that, um, he could teach people.
As long as you have the right work ethic.
And that's the piece that I took withme is that, that when I asked the second
question about how do you get financeexperience without having finance
experience, I thought, boy, I'm missingsome of the functional capabilities
(08:01):
that I needed, uh, educationallyjust around finance credit being in
that business that I really neededto go back to graduate school for.
Uh, I could get sales experience withouthaving sales experience, but I couldn't
get the finance experience without that.
But it's interesting afterI did that and I went.
And I went and I worked atDeere and Company and learned
how to underwrite credit.
Um, I learned that as I built more ofa field team to help our customers,
(08:26):
that we had to be cross-functional.
We had to have people that hadagronomy backgrounds, people that
had credit backgrounds, peoplethat had finance backgrounds.
And the team that, that I'm blessed to,to lead within, within Nutrient Financial
really comes from a myriad of backgrounds.
But it's always rooted in that, thatfirst thought that I, I, that struck
me when I tried to get into a newindustry was you can't teach work ethic.
(08:50):
That's the piece that I think, whetheryou're a student here at Purdue, whether
you're a mid-career professional like Iwas when I tried to transfer into more
of a development program, uh, aftergraduate school, or whether you're.
Uh, leading a team of individuals in, ina, in a very large business across a large
geography is I can teach somebody there'sthe right work, work ethic, anything
they wanna know, but I can't get themto want to get up and make a difference
(09:14):
for our customers on a daily basis.
And that's what I love most about thisindustry, is we have a team of people
that are dedicated to the outcomes ofour customers that, uh, live with a
higher purpose to serve agriculture.
Yeah.
That's cool.
What are the tasks that you do ona daily basis in your current role?
So my current role manages our fieldteam that focuses on, again, the right
(09:39):
field driven economics, paired with ournutri Ag, ag solutions, crock consultants
that are out representing the agronomic.
Portion of our business.
I also manage, uh, our strategicsupplier relationships for the finance
business where we have financingprograms that are very promotional
in the marketplace, that focus on, onpositioning the right products, uh, for
(09:59):
seed and chemistry into the marketplacethat are at, at very low rates.
Sometimes 0%, sometimes 1%, sometimes,you know, usually below a prime rate.
Sure.
Um, that help our growers cash flow.
And so.
My group develops those programs, bringthem, brings the programs to marketplace.
Mm-hmm.
And then has a dedicated team ofindividuals that are out there helping
(10:22):
to take the guesswork out of thosebuild crop plans that align with, uh, an
agronomic cropping plan and an economiccropping plan to help our growers.
Whether, whether commodity prices aregreat, whether operational costs are low,
or whether we're in times like we areright now, where we, we see the, the.
The opposite in both of those.
So this is something that I didn'tknow until I was in graduate school,
(10:44):
sort of like the value of if you canget commitments early and you can
get people to sort of, you know, buyseeding fertilizer early, you, it helps
sort of the, the cash flow within abusiness like a agribusiness, right?
It helps the whole industryflow better, right?
Sure.
'cause a lot of these programsreward commitment to brands and
they also reward, a timely paymentor they, or they reward planning.
(11:04):
Sure.
And when we look at where discountscan be had, where profit can be
made it, it's in the yield monitor.
And it's in how we manage theexpenses and how we manage the cash
flows of an operation throughoutinevitably an annual cycle in
agriculture from planting to harvest.
So I think one of the things Ifind interesting is there's not
really smoke and mirrors, right?
(11:25):
There's not, you're not there.
There's no magic behind it.
You're saying we're willing to sortof give you these favorable rates
if you're willing to commit early.
And is that kind of how youthink through designing programs?
Well, and it's in partnership witha lot of our suppliers, but yes.
And, and it's also the conversationof cash has to be managed, right?
How do we blend the best aspects of cash,prepay and financing so that you as,
(11:48):
as a grower, as as a farmer, have allof the knowledge and resources at your
fingertips to make the best decision.
It's not to use financing, just'cause we have great programs.
It's to use financing.
If you can help.
Make inroads in your, in yourcash management and your capital
management strategies so that, uh,you know, we, we offer financing
to people that need financing.
(12:09):
But for the biggest and largestgrowers, uh, A CFO will never
need to know where they can find.
Value in additional 25 basispoints or 2% in an interest rate,
right?
Those large companies as welluse cash as another commodity.
And if you can help them managetheir cash flow appropriately, you
become, again, another indispensablepart of that relationship.
(12:31):
It's interesting.
I, I always tell our team andI, I tell others that, um, our,
our conversation doesn't change.
It's always focused on how we providenew and innovative ways to help our
customers find value in the marketplace.
The location does.
The location could be at a, at a smalltable like this in, in a, in a farmhouse
Sure.
Where there's dogs and kids runningaround me like, like I'm at home.
(12:55):
Or it could be in a largecorporate farm where you have
chief executive teams sitting downin front of you asking questions.
The location changes, but the conversationaround value for that specific
operation is always focused on theindividualized needs of our customers.
And so that's one of the really uniquepieces that I think is, is important.
It it, every operation rather largeor small or heavily integrated, always
(13:19):
has, um, pieces that, that are unknowns.
And so those operations, they all havedef different definitions of success.
And what good looks like.
Yeah.
Um, the path to successis not always linear.
It, you have to do a lot of little things.
Right.
And that's why Nutrien has sucha vertically integrated business
with, with proprietary products,financing, fertilizer production,
(13:41):
retail organization, because ourcustomers operations are complex too.
Yeah.
And if we can help them at every turn,we provide value beyond just a price.
We provide value beyond just a product.
And it's that relationship, thosepowerful partnerships that come
into play, especially in agronomic,uh, or economic times like we see
now that can provide the best valuefor our customers on a daily basis.
(14:04):
Yeah.
I think I've lost all the questions.
Do you have a question you wanna ask?
Yeah.
So you've, you've talked about thefinancing and maybe that credit market.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, and Chad has done a lot of work onit and I'm starting to do some on it too.
And one thing that comesup a lot is competition.
Yeah.
And you mentioned earlier, and wehad some conversations last fall,
some other people as well that.
(14:24):
Really, it's not all competition.
We, we hear about the fights between thecommercial banks and the, uh, farm credit
system, and we, we have other lenderswith Nutrien or, and you mentioned Deer
and Co, but that's not always the case.
There's some, also some synergyand some cooperation between them.
Mm-hmm.
Could you maybe expand on whatthat looks like and how that
can help farmers or producers?
Yeah.
It's important to really define those,those tranches of sources of, of credit
(14:49):
or lines of credit an operating line.
Which is usually secured through,through a bank or your local lender
is the lifeblood of an operation.
Uh, that's that local relationshipand partnership you have with your
banker where you can use that, thatoperating line to be able to buy inputs.
You can use it to buy equipment, you canuse it to manage your labor force by land.
(15:13):
Um.
That allows you ultimate flexibility.
Secondary lines of credit can includenutrient financial for inputs.
It, it can include equipment lending that,that are part of captive organizations
where you can finance a paint colorwith financing that are complimentary.
Those provide.
Best in class options because thosecompanies are dedicated to finding
(15:34):
ways, just like nutrient financialand nutrient ag solutions to find
better ways to help our growers.
And so when we look at, at how nutrientfinancial sits in that marketplace
we're, we're generally unsecured inthe market, which means that we're
not taking those crop liens thatwould encumber the operating line,
which is usually the hardest thingon a grower is when you have multiple
(15:56):
different liens or, or blanket liens.
On an operation because then it inhibitsthe flexibility to go get, uh, to go buy
other, other products, other servicesthat you need throughout the year.
And so, over, over my nine yearswith close to nine years with, with
Nutrien, I've seen the dynamic shift.
I've seen, um, banks start to recommendsay, this is really a good thing because
(16:17):
banks aren't gonna necessarily lend ahundred percent of the, the farming needs.
We hear that as, as tightening.
Uh, occurs in the marketplace.
We've partnered really well in somecases where, where the local banks
say This is, this is a good dealbecause it frees up the operating line.
And, and what does that accomplishif you free up your operating line?
It sounds counterintuitive.
Well, for a, for a grower, it allowsyou to make decisions, even in a down
(16:38):
market to be more profitable or to growbecause we hear doom and gloom with
low commodity prices, high operationalcosts, you know, five years of, of
rapid inflation in the marketplace.
But somebody's gonna be profitable.
Somebody who's gonna grow, somebodyhas plans to be able to do more
than just exist in this marketplace.
That operating line is there to beable to help functionally free up
(17:00):
the cash flow You need to be able togrow, to be able to buy more land,
to be able to build something thatthat allows you better access to.
Liquidity or profitabilityin your operation.
And so, just to circle back, nutrientfinancial is, is quite complimentary
because we're not taking those, thoseliens in most cases we're, we're
unsecured, we're complimentary for theinputs and our core competency that
(17:20):
we sell through nutrient ag solutions,just like equipment manufacturers are.
Our core competency is, is.
Financing or, or selling theequipment that, that they use
in, in agricultural production.
Yeah.
Okay.
So I, I wanna ask you aboutsort of your perspective, right?
So, so now you sit on the sidewhere you see the demand for credit
(17:40):
mm-hmm.
From your customers, right?
So what, what are you seeing?
Like what are the trends?
I think we, you, you alluded to thefact there's this doom and gloom.
Like we, you'd have to be hidingunder a rock to sort of, uh, not
have some awareness that currentlyproduction agriculture of row crops
is in a unique, maybe not unique, sortof like historically, but unique as
(18:01):
far as in the last few years we're,we're at an, an interesting point.
Tell us about your perspectivefrom Nutrient Financial.
Yeah.
So it's, it's a trough market.
It.
And I, I made a, I made acomment about a year ago.
I was on a podcast.
We were talking about economics and,and if you have economics background,
the first thing maybe an economistwould say was, well, this is cyclical.
(18:22):
But for growers who are in thismarketplace within the last five
years, cyclical wasn't familiarbecause they hadn't seen such a
rapid rise in interest rates since.
They were children.
Yeah.
And so what's cyclical from an ageconomist is not always felt and
(18:45):
managed the same way by a farmer who'sanywhere from 20 to 40 years old.
Yeah.
If you live through the eighties,you might say, this is cyclical.
Sure.
And so that's, that's really the firststep, uh, is understanding the, uh,
the ag econ trends versus more ofthe facts and feelings of, of what.
(19:06):
A grower's going through in thismarketplace based on how many years
they've had a chance to put out a crop.
The second piece is that, uh,what people always compare,
well, is this like the eighties?
Mm-hmm.
No, it wasn't because landvalues were low in the eighties.
Land values are very, very high still.
Yeah.
And so our customers are facinginward pressure from high operational
costs, low commodity prices comingoff of really, the last three,
(19:32):
four years of, of rapid inflation.
Now, before that, it was some of thebest times in agriculture, right?
High commodity prices, low interestrates, but a lot of the interest
rate adjustments we've seen.
So we, we've dropped maybe a half pointover the last year in Prime and over
the last, uh, two, three years, it'sbeen about another one and three quarter
percent since we are at the peak of, ofinterest rates about three years ago.
(19:56):
But a lot of those adjustments were mademaybe in the fall of this last year.
And so that's after on an annualcycle, growers have carried at a
higher rate on a, on an operating linethat's variable in nature, not fixed.
Yeah.
Uh, and so those pressures accumulateover the course of a year versus
over months within other businesses,cash flow in an ag cycle is annual,
(20:17):
uh, versus maybe a constructioncompany that has work in progress
on a monthly basis to buffer that.
And so those are really some of the, theeconomic trends that we see is, is helping
to manage through high operational costs.
Low commodity prices after multipleconsistent years of both of those
occurring while we had rapid inflation.
(20:37):
Yeah.
Okay.
So do you see, 'cause this is aconversation we've been having,
do you see regional differencessort of in the way, like crop type
crop mixes production practices?
Like, you know, we, I don't know ifyou manage nutrient financial in sort
of regions, but do you see differencesamong sort of production regions
of the United States and Canada?
For sure.
Right.
And then there are quite, quitea bit of difference between even
(21:00):
the United States and Canada.
And so first off, at a, at a regionalfocus, uh, if you just look at crop
types cotton is, is struggling, cottonproduction is is there's gonna be
some areas regionally it's cotton.
It's gonna be cotton.
Yeah.
Right.
Are you gonna West Texas?
It's cotton,
it's gonna be cotton.
And those prices are, are hard asa function of just a. Commodity
(21:23):
prices and operational costs andum, and then you get into just kind
of the debate on corn, soybeans.
Obviously there's, this is a corn yearfrom everything we're seeing with USDA
but cotton is a challenge regionally.
Um, there's some areas thatyou can rotate in peanuts.
Peanuts have been a consistent staple.
Uh, you get out west into permanentcrops, so much can change based on just.
(21:46):
Snowfall and water that, that's impacting.
Um, you know, the, the Sierrasare getting record snowfalls,
but in Colorado a lot less.
And you get into certain areas there withmore permanent crops and it's, it's based
on water rights and, and availabilityto water and then temperatures.
And then you get through all thosedifferent variables and you get to
(22:06):
planting and even if you can getthrough some of the dynamics with, with
commodity prices, last year we, we got.
Time to get into the fieldand then it just rained.
And then, so there are areas in the souththat, that had to preventative plant
or didn't necessarily get crops in, inenough time to be able to, uh, to harvest
regardless of whatever plan they had.
Yeah.
And so that goes back again, economically.
(22:28):
You think about, wow, there's all thesechallenges facing, facing a farmer and
facing just what, what, what they dealwith on a daily basis, on a monthly
basis throughout that, that, that year.
And that's where it comes backto making sure that, that if you.
Every year you build that agronomicplan and that plan inevitably changes.
(22:49):
So too should your plan to cashflow that your economic plan.
And that's been the biggestopportunity we've had within
Nutrient Financial to shed light on.
Those two need to operatesynergistically and they need
to change and, and be reviewedmultiple times throughout the year.
Okay.
What would your recommendations be togrowers in, in sort of how they think
(23:13):
through offerings from nutrient financialspecifically, but others who are providing
financing in a, in a captive way?
Ask questions and surround yourselfwith trusted advisors that are
in, as invested in the outcomesthat you need for your farm.
Yeah.
As they are.
So they need to be, as investedin your outcomes as you are,
(23:34):
is a better way to say it.
And that those are rare,those are uncommon, right?
Use those trusted partnershipsto be able to sit down and review
these plans throughout the year.
Make sure you're, you're maximizingcash flow, you're maximizing.
Profitability at the same time.
'cause there's differences between the twoand, and making sure that, uh, you build
the plan and revisit the plan throughoutthe year so that you have peace of mind.
(23:57):
Because we just talked for a long timehow many things can change in a year.
Yeah.
Right.
And how many pressuresour, our growers face.
Taking a few of those piecesout of the mix and knowing that
you have plans, contingencies
Sure.
And opportunities to be able toaddress any pressure, whether it's
agronomic, whether it's weather related.
Is, is really the biggest,is the biggest piece.
It comes down to people managingthose relationships with each other.
(24:20):
What do you think is thelowest hanging fruit?
Like what's the, if someone's feelingoverwhelmed, uh, what would be the first
thing that you'd be like, here's thefirst thing I would try do this task?
That's a great question, becausethis can be overwhelming, right?
Mm-hmm.
I mentioned, I, I came from anagronomy degree and went into finance.
Yeah.
And I see that with, with people that arein the field helping to position this.
They'd say, well, John, Idon't have your background.
(24:42):
I, this is foreign to me.
I'd say, well, what's your background?
Agronomy?
I'd say, great.
So is mine.
Yeah.
Right.
What's your, what's your excuse now?
But those are real challenges.
Mm-hmm.
And for our growers and, and for anybody,even a student at Purdue, the further you
get from your degree, the more you managepeople and money, that's number one.
From there, it's making sure that youhave the right communication practices
(25:06):
to your people and the right avenuesto be able to maximize your money.
So for our growers, it comes down tomaking sure you take the guesswork
out of all these programs, ifit's an equipment example, what's
best for you in your operation?
Do you lease?
Do you use installments?
Maybe you use a combination of both.
(25:27):
And you probably should.
Do you pay cash for certainaspects of your equipment?
From an input perspective where canyou, where can you prepay and maximize
prepay from a, a pricing position?
Well, you see certain markets fluctuateon, on product shelves more than others.
Fertilizer markets may fluctuate morethan, than, uh, seed or crop protection
(25:48):
markets, so use cash to maximizeyour advantage for those purchases.
Use alternative lines of capital.
To be able to supplement youroperating line with best in class
rates for those specific products.
But then look back at your operatingline now that your borrowing
base has expanded and say, is myoperation in the right right place?
(26:09):
Is my labor in the right place?
Do I have any fears?
Whether it's just driving a truck downthe road or getting people to help
me harvest, or the areas I can grow?
And it's looking at that andit should include, you know.
Equipment inputs your, your local bank.
It should include other trustedadvisors in your operation.
And we haven't even touched onsuccession planning or, or families
(26:30):
that farm together and how that dynamicimpacts the outcome of the farm.
That's part
podcast, part two.
We'll, we'll come back to that onebut all of those are weighing on any
individual operation, whether it'sa corporate farm or a family farm.
But it starts number one.
With that agronomic plan, take thatagronomic plan and say, is this the
(26:50):
right seed chem for that we need, dowe have the right equipment in place?
Do we have the right ways to payfor that and build out from there?
And, and it takes something that canseem so daunting and it simplifies it
and it brings, it brings everybody backthat, that have escalated in the career,
that managed more people, more moneyback to the thing they love the most.
(27:11):
And that's farming.
So you, you, you begin with the endin mind, but you start with what
brought you into this industry.
And that's just being out in thefield and knowing that you have
so many years to raise a crop.
That's what you're goodat, that's what you love.
And then connect in from there sothat you, you, you connect the right
resources to what you love the most.
And then it doesn't seem so, so hard.
(27:32):
It's no different than if I have to trainsomebody on, on our team that comes in.
I mentioned they might come inwith a sales background and,
and as a crop consultant, theymight come in with credit.
We build the training around thefunctional skills that people
are most comfortable with.
So if somebody comes in from credit orfinance, let's teach you how you can
make a difference from our customersbecause you have finance knowledge.
(27:52):
Then we'll teach you the products.
Sure.
If you come in as a product expert,let's teach you about the products,
then we'll teach you about.
The other ways you can help managecash flow with those products.
For our farmers, it alwaysbegins with agronomics.
So take that plan, look at it andsay, am I applying the right products?
Is it the right timing?
If something changes,is this the right mix?
How do I pay for that?
What's the best way?
(28:12):
Cash, prepaid financing.
Do I use an operating line?
Do I use cash?
Do I use alternative lines of credit?
And it really buildsthat tree out from there.
Josh, you got any questions?
So you've, you've talked aboutthe chemicals and fertilization
or fertilizer, Nutrien.
I've played a lot of golf andI always see a lot of equipment
out on golf courses spraying.
(28:33):
Does Nutrien do anything with golf coursesor they, do you have any relationship or?
We do a hundred percent and we havecertain areas of the country in the
northeast and, and then in the west.
That, uh, has, has more of agolf and turf relationship.
There's some close colleagues thatmanage those, uh, relationships
for the turf and ornamental piece.
And then there's a wholesale aspectwhere, um, some of those companies
might buy some of the products thatwe produce, fertilizer and otherwise
(28:56):
that, that will go into thoseindustries or a proprietary products.
And so it really is a multifacetedapproach to be able to reach
multiple different markets.
Interesting.
Okay.
So farmers are taking it to yield.
Right.
That's the, the measure of success.
So you're managing turf.
What is your metric ofsuccess as a turf manager?
(29:22):
That's a great question.
There's some really good professors justthree doors down that could probably
answer this better than myself, like Dr.
Bigelow and Dr. Pattonin a turf environment.
I would say you strive to have thosetournament level conditions every day.
So the litmus test is to really not haveone of those off days because you're,
(29:45):
you're managing to such thin toleranceson everything that, um, you need to make
sure that every day is a championship.
And if, if.
If it's not a championship day,that means it's an off day.
That's kind of whatyou're managing against.
So how do you, how do you knowif it's not a championship day?
Is it just the amount of people whocome into the clubhouse and say,
man, it was rough out there today?
No.
(30:05):
You can manage certain things like greenspeeds and make sure your greens and,
and firmness and play playing conditions.
And really it comes down to howyou want the course to play.
Right.
Wow.
And, and how you want it to look.
And there's, there's so muchdedication that, uh, we could do a
whole other end with, with the turf,the turf end of the business, but.
Golf course superintendents are,are, are unheralded heroes in that
(30:27):
industry that spend so much timecultivating stuff for people to come
out and enjoy in their off time.
And to be able to walk out and seehow long it takes to make a course,
produce a tournament is amazing.
Uh, the year I was an intern for USopen, uh, I worked all summer, every day.
(30:49):
The only day off I had wasthe day after the tournament.
Wow.
And, and the week, the week before.
And the week of, I, I only rememberthis because I was making nine bucks
an hour and I thought I was richat, at the end of the tournament.
I worked 198 hours in two weeks.
Wow.
Wow.
Clocked in.
Not at the coffee pot, but clocked in.
Yeah,
like working, but that workbuilt up that whole summer.
(31:13):
But it built up the years priorto that to be able to prepare the
course for a major championship.
And the level of work that I gotwhen I got there as an intern, that
team had been working on for three tofive years previously, and they had
hosted the US senior open before that.
(31:33):
Uh, where they had renovated things.
And so when you look at, um, at thosecertain US Open courses, yeah, they could
probably, they could probably have atournament like that any day because those
are the, the courses that are preparedthe best, that are that way every day.
But even those courses takea world of, uh, prep work.
Oakmont hosted the US Open last year.
(31:54):
Yeah.
And,
and just the nerd in me waswatching some of the YouTubers that
would go out and play the course.
And I remember this like it was yesterday.
They were push mowing the whole,the rough and the whole course
because commercial mowers can'tmow at the length of us open rough.
And they'll just knock it over and thenthe wheels will, will roll the turf down.
(32:16):
And so in the back when I was watching allthese YouTubers try to break par or shoot
a certain score on a US open course withclose to us open conditions, I saw the um.
The crew of interns and, and, andteam like 12 thick and like a snake
pattern throughout the course.
Push mowing with, with rotary mowers.
(32:36):
The rough on the entire golf course,
the rotary mowers
rot, like, like your holding push mowerbecause you could set that up a lot higher
and fabricate it than, than taking a bigcommercial mower and trying to mow that.
Wow.
And so I remember doing that.
We had push mowing crews becausewe got to a point where the rough
had to be at a certain certainheight before a tournament.
Where we push mow the entire golfcourse in addition to the fairways,
(33:00):
greens tees, all the normal maintenancepractices there where you'd walk
mower or, or have riding mowers, but.
We had crews that would push mow the roughfor the month or two up until the US open.
And then we had volunteers from around theworld that were leading superintendents
in their own right that would comein for a week or two to volunteer, to
fill divots to R bunkers, to cut cups.
(33:21):
But some of those,
wow,
some of those superintendentsin the evening jobs, they'd fill
divots and they'd fluff rough.
We had people that would go aroundwith rakes just to fluff the rough
back up because in the US open, theexpectation is to have thick, rough
Wow.
And so the level of attention to detailthat goes into, into that is, is, uh,
different than anything I've ever seen.
And that's where, again, the work ethicis learned through roles like that.
(33:45):
But farming is the same way.
You think about the people that,that, that feed the world and
they're up before the lights are on.
Before the world gets going, andoftentimes in the fall they're up
after the world has has fallen asleepafter they've had dinner that's been
(34:06):
provided by those that are farming.
They're still out there in the combine.
The lights are still on.
They're rolling up and down.
Up and down the, the, the turn rows.
And I thought about that and I said,well, how does, how does a company
like Nutrien fit into that same mix.
This last fall.
One of the coolest things I've ever gottento do in my career is I got to go 3000
feet down into a potash mine and see inSaskatchewan and see our, our colleagues
(34:33):
at Nutrien pulling rock out of, out ofthe earth, sending it up into a millions.
Plant having it processed sixhours later in a rail car down
the road is a finished product.
And, and realizing that there's adefinite connection point there because
those mines, uh, at Nutrien are open24 hours a day, seven days a week.
(34:56):
And if you're on a holiday, if you'resleeping in, there's always somebody
down there working and groups ofpeople working to be able to pull that
potash out of those mines no differentthan our farmers are up at different
hours, monitoring crops, sprayingcrops, doing all of the things to
be able to provide that output for
For everybody else that, that may notrecognize to be able to feed the world.
(35:18):
And so, it's a noble cause.
It's one that I think, um.
Not of people, not a lot of peopleknow about, but whether you are
a golf course superintendentraising a turf crop, essentially
mm-hmm.
Or you're, you're a farmer raisingcorn, soybeans or uh, permanent crops.
That level of service is whatmakes our industry great.
(35:39):
Yeah, man.
Thanks, John.
Josh, I wanna give you a chance.
Do you get any other questions?
No, but John mentioned that successmaybe on the golf course was measured
and it being tournament ready.
I think from a golfer end,success is probably inverse of if
the course is tournament ready.
If I show up at a tournament readycourse, it's not gonna be a good day.
I know, I didn't realize, I didn'trealize that the rough had to be
like, I don't think I've ever noticedthat the rough had to be longer.
(36:04):
I,
well, you watch a US open and, andit's different for tournaments.
I, I remember walking around.
I'm thinking, boy, this roughdoesn't look that long, but it was so
evenly cut and the people next to me
Yeah.
Didn't have feet, couldn't see their feet.
Yeah.
Right.
And I would drop a full size waterbottle into the rough and the label would
be missing because it'd show the cat.
It's
unbelievable.
And so, yeah.
(36:25):
There's, there's a lot ofdamage that golfers Yeah.
Do on the weekends of these tournaments.
But you have, you have agreat example here on campus.
You've hosted men's andwomen's NCAA championships.
Yeah.
Back when I was here, I worked some ofthe fall previews for those tournaments
and the level of work that goes intothat, not, we don't even want to
get into the football field Yeah.
Of how you're, you're growing a, a warmseason grass that you would see down in
(36:50):
Florida on your football field in Indiana.
And the research that Dr. Bigelowand Dr. Patton and others in the
turf program did to be able to grow aBermuda grass field and oversee it into
rye so that you don't tear things up.
The agronomic reasons why you can,there was a game this fall and, and,
um, one of the, um, professors noted,or one of the announcers noted that,
(37:10):
uh, this field is bone dry afterlike two or three inches of rain.
Well, that's the pat systemthat allows the, the underground
drainage in, in the field over here.
But, but also it's because youraise a warm season grass all
summer, you get rooting depth.
So the players.
The, you know, the big, the big monstersthat are out there on the offensive and
defensive line aren't tearing things up.
(37:32):
There's purpose behind that, that,that, uh, if you came out of this
program, you watched the field andyou watched the way the field plays.
Yeah.
And those people are the heroes becausethe turf looks beautiful after those
games because of the research that youdo here as Purdue University, as a land
grain institution that transfers intoall areas of agriculture, and that's.
(37:53):
I think, you know, just to sum thisup, I, I look at my time here and
whether you're a student or, or you're,you're far from it and graduated.
You'll appreciate this time heremore and more as you learn what
this institution is and the waythe, uh, the research and field work
ties into outcomes in the field.
(38:15):
And it makes that extension work, itconnects industry with academia and it's,
it's a true, pure way to be able to fosterinnovation in the world of agriculture.
Yeah, man.
Thanks so much John.
Thanks for being willing to drive up tocampus and give us some of your time.
I've learned a lot andI really appreciate it.
Yeah, let's do this again.
(38:36):
This is great.
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