April 29, 2026 • 36 mins
Menopause gets reduced to hot flashes, whispered about like it’s a personal flaw, then brushed off in the exam room when symptoms don’t fit a neat box. That silence has a cost. Cardiologist Dr. Jayne Morgan joins us to explain why menopause is a cardiovascular turning point, and why so many women feel dismissed with “normal labs” while their bodies are waving real warning flags.
In this episode, we talk about an uncomfortable truth: many clinicians receive little to no menopause training, and it still isn’t meaningfully reflected in many clinical guidelines. Dr. Morgan breaks down how that gap leads to fragmented care, in which palpitations, dizziness, bloating, joint pain, or even itchy ears are treated as separate mysteries rather than a connected syndrome. We also unpack how language like “atypical” chest pain can quietly lower urgency for women, even though heart disease remains the number one killer of women, and risk can rise sharply during perimenopause as estrogen declines.
Connect with Dr. Morgan at
· Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/FortyMIlionBeats/
· Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/drjaynemorgan/
· TikTok – https://www.tiktok.com/@DrJayneMorgan
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (00:01):
Consistency beats intensity every single
time.
Announcer (00:08):
Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov
that brings you the stories ofchange makers who are actively
working to improve ourcommunities.
In every episode, we'll meetwith people who are making a
lasting impact in the places wecall home.
Lyn Wineman (00:32):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Agency for
Change podcast.
This is Lyn Wineman, presidentand chief strategist at KidGlov.
So a few weeks ago, we releasedan episode on women's health
advocacy.
And in that conversation, theguests touched on an issue that
impacts every woman, and yet itis rarely talked about as openly
(00:56):
as it should be.
And that conversation actuallyled me to today's guest, Dr.
Jayne Morgan.
She is a leading cardiologistand a powerful advocate for
women navigating.
Yes, I'm going to use theM-word, menopause.
And she is especially focusedon when it comes to
(01:20):
understanding that very realconnection between menopause and
heart health.
So instead of our normal setuphere, Dr.
Morgan has so much toshare. We're just gonna step right into the heart of our conversation.
Enjoy.
So, Dr.
Morgan, you know how this cameabout?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (01:42):
No, I don't.
Lyn Wineman (01:43):
Oh, well, I was doing a podcast on women's
health advocacy.
And in the podcast, Liz andNada, who are my guests, they
they brought up menopause.
And I think I blushed first.
I am a woman of a certain age.
I think I blushed.
And then I said, I think I'venever said menopause in public.
(02:07):
And much less on a podcast that500 to a thousand people are
gonna listen to.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (02:14):
Isn't that amazing?
Lyn Wineman (02:15):
Right.
And then they said, Lyn, youshould be talking about this all
the time.
You need to talk to our friendDr.
Morgan.
And here we are.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (02:27):
Now is the time.
So let's just get it out inpublic.
Menopause, menopause,menopause, menopause, menopause.
Now we have said it.
Lyn Wineman (02:36):
All right.
Dr. Jayne M (02:36):
It's out in public.
Lyn Wineman (02:37):
And you know what?
I am still blushing.
And I know that's ridiculous,right?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (02:42):
That's okay.
Lyn Wineman (02:43):
I'm 59 years old.
I don't blush that oftenanymore.
But yes, it's a topic that's alittle bit taboo.
So as we dive in—
Dr. Jayne Morgan (02:53):
That's exactly what we're working against.
This, you know, the veil ofsecrecy, the veil of science,
silence, the veil of shame.
The veil, no, let's not talkabout it, the veil of suffering.
Lyn Wineman (03:06):
Right.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (03:06):
Enough.
So that's okay if you'reblushing.
I'm not.
Okay.
So I can speak on your behalf.
Lyn Wineman (03:12):
Thank you.
Thank you. I'm not speechless.
I'm just, you know, a littlebit hot in the cheeks, right?
But it is ridiculous becausemost, if not all, women are
going to go through it.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (03:24):
Right.
Lyn Wineman (03:25):
And why do we pretend like we're not?
Right?
Why do we why do we suffer insilence?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (03:32):
Right.
We suffer in silence.
It's in whispers and—
Lyn Wineman (03:37):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (03:37):
And it's all reduced to hot flashes and
night sweats.
We have no other information.
And here's the interestingpart.
Lyn Wineman (03:45):
Right.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (03:46):
Doctors don't either.
That's why I'm on this crusade.
Doctors also have noinformation on it.
We have no training on it.
In my entire medical training,that's over 10 years, medical
school, residency, a cardiologyfellowship.
(04:06):
Yeah.
The word menopause was never used in a
lecture, in a textbook, on anexam.
I completed 10 years oftraining.
Lyn Wineman (04:17):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (04:18):
I'm a cardiologist, and never once did
I hear the word menopause.
Lyn Wineman (04:23):
Wow.
Not even once.
Okay.
Now, while I, because you'vealready just in a short minute,
you've made me blush.
And now I'm going to pick mychin up off the floor, right?
And I think this is a good timeto have you tell us about your
background, right?
Before we go deeper into thetopic, tell us a little bit
about what you do.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (04:44):
Sure.
So I am a cardiologist, and Iam the vice president of medical
affairs for Hello Heart.
It's the digital heart healthcompany, as we work on
empowering people to actuallyhave some agency over their own
lives and their ownhealth. Imagine that.
Lyn Wineman (04:59):
Yes.
And especially for women, it'sespecially important for
menopause.
And we focus on that in mycompany at Hello Heart as well.
I am a cardiologist.
So did all of medical school,all of my internal medicine
residency, all of my cardiologyfellowship.
So I am supposedly adequatelyprepared to take care of the
(05:25):
population.
And yet I have learned in myexperience that really had very
little to do with my training,that I am inadequately prepared
to take care of 51.2% of thepopulation, which are the women.
Wow.
And I learned that later in mycareer, as my career wound
(05:46):
through research and when I sayresearch, I mean real hard
R and D, research anddevelopment.
I worked in Pharma.
I worked at SolvayPharmaceuticals.
I worked at AbbVie.
I developed protocols.
I enrolled people into clinicaltrials.
I traveled all over the globe,giving lectures and speaking
with our principalinvestigators.
(06:07):
I was hardcore R and D.
So I understand how clinicaltrials work.
And all of these little bubblesoccurred in my life where I
lived in different bubbles.
I was in my training, that wasmy little bubble.
Then I went out to practice,right?
That's my little bubble as anew physician.
I went into research.
I'm in another bubble thatseemingly is, you know,
(06:28):
unrelated.
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (06:30):
And but it turns out that all these bubbles
eventually, this is how thebrain works, you start to
intersect them.
Lyn Wineman (06:37):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (06:38):
This is what life experience is.
And when I intersected all thebubbles, right in the middle was
a big hole on women.
And I realized that in mypractice because in my training,
because when we admitted women,we often describe their chest
pain as atypical.
And I noted, I don't ever admitmen, and I'm describing their
chest pain as atypical.
Lyn Wineman (06:58):
Interesting.
Why am I describing women'schest pain as atypical?
And when you think about thatword, that word drives action or
inaction, right?
Basically, atypical triages youto a lower level of care and
concern.
You will not be moving forwardwith more aggressive therapy as
your male counterpart will withclassic.
We call the man symptoms,classic.
(07:18):
Classic, oh my goodness.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (07:20):
Shortness of breath.
You know, so there is thatbubble where I'm having a
question in my head, what?
Am I imagining this?
Or only—
Lyn Wineman (07:27):
Yeah
But nobody else was talkingabout, of course, I'm in a
training program of all men.
So it's like, a "huh?" Is thisme or what is happening here?
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (07:38):
Going to research, I'm enrolling people
in trials.
I realize I don't really see alot of women in trials.
I don't really see a lot ofminorities, but I bring it up.
It's not really that important.
The same as in my training.
So I'm just working, and yetI've got this "huh?" in my head,
right?
Lyn Wineman (07:53):
Yeah
And so you go and you're livingin all these little bubbles,
and here I am at this part of mylife.
And I started to intersectthose bubbles because I've been
in all these different placesand I've seen these "huh?"
moments everywhere I've beenthat were blind spots to the
people around me.
And now I have the ability tobring that together to say, you
(08:14):
know what?
At the center of all these"huh?" bubbles that I've been in
are women and menopause.
And so atypical was not myimagination.
The research was not myimagination.
It was me bringing a differentlens and a different perspective
to the table that the men therewere unable to see and unable
(08:35):
to accept.
And I was unable to moveforward with it because I was
not in a position of power.
Right, right.
Wow.
So I'm picturing, I love, Ilove the dynamic of how you're
explaining this.
I'm picturing all of theselittle bubbles floating around.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (08:52):
Giving work in, right.
Lyn Wineman (08:53):
Yep.
And I'm wondering how do thebubbles then of cardiac
instances or cardiac disease andmenopause come together.
How do they intersect?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (09:06):
Yeah, and so yet another bubble.
Lyn Wineman (09:09):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (09:09):
So COVID hits, and I begin.
Here's my next bubble.
Lyn Wineman (09:14):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (09:15):
Do more public relations, community service,
social media.
I start publishing data onCOVID patients, especially with
regard to minorities andminority enrollments into
trials.
I start speaking out about it.
I create a social media seriescalled the Stairwell Chronicles,
where I sit on my stairs andfor 60 seconds, I explain
(09:39):
something about medicine.
It started with COVID and thevaccine and then transitioned
over into cardiology, which iswhat I am, and research and
women.
And people started to listenand started to enjoy it.
It was just one-minute littlesnippets of information.
And in doing so on socialmedia, I started to be connected
with a lot of OBGYNs.
(10:00):
The number one person was Dr.
Sharon Malone, who's a verygood friend of mine.
And so I was already followingher on social media.
So it wasn't following anyparticular doctors, I was just
connected with my friends.
Lyn Wineman (10:11):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (10:11):
And many of my friends were doctors.
And so Dr.
Sharon Malone was talking aboutmenopause.
And I would listen because I'mconnected with her on social
media.
And I was doing my StairwellChronicles over here separately.
I'm in my other bubble.
And I think I started torealize, and maybe she and I
both started to realize at thesame time wait a second, there's
(10:31):
some interconnectivity herebecause I was also talking about
how estrogen impacts the heart.
She's talking about menopause.
So we came together on mystairs.
We did a Stairwell Chronicles.
Lyn Wineman (10:43):
I love it.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (10:44):
And talked about what we began to first
explore, what that intersectionwas.
I think Sharon and I were thefirst ones to really explore
there is a connection betweenestrogen and menopause, and it
is not small.
There is a huge connectionhere.
Lyn Wineman (11:02):
Wow.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (11:02):
So here was yet another bubble that I was
in in media, social media,public advocacy, speaking about
COVID, trying to educatepeople.
So I went into this otherbubble and social media.
Lyn Wineman (11:19):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (11:19):
And began to find other interconnections.
And so all of the areas thatI've been in in life that you
think are not connected—
Lyn Wineman (11:28):
Right.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (11:28):
Are all adding up to an experience that's
unique to you.
Lyn Wineman (11:32):
Right.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (11:33):
That then set me up to have a lens and a
perspective that was so uniqueand sitting at the cusp of
something that you don't evenknow how you're being set up
over life, right?
And this is— was not short.
I'm talking about over two orthree decades.
You know, I spent 10 years intraining, eight years in pharma,
(11:53):
but you know, I'm literallydeep in and learning everywhere
I'm going, but I'm havingquestions everywhere I go.
I'm having a question, I'mhaving a question.
Lyn Wineman (12:04):
Right.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (12:05):
At the end of it, here social media, I was
able to start putting ittogether.
So Sharon was talking about it.
So through Sharon, I startedmeeting all of these other
OBGYNs who were talking aboutit.
I'm the only cardiologistthere.
I'm bringing this other lensand I'm going, hey guys, this is
actually a cardiology problem.
(12:26):
Uh-huh.
Think about this.
That's because I had been inall these separate and seemingly
distinct and unconnectedbubbles.
And now all the bubbles werenow intersecting.
Lyn Wineman (12:37):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (12:38):
Menopause.
Yes.
Lyn Wineman (12:39):
So let's add another bubble because one of
the things that I hear fromfamily members, from friends,
from people I work with isthere's this thing that happens.
Women doubt themselves beforethey go into the doctor.
They're like, is this real?
Is it not real?
(13:00):
They go to the doctor, they'vetaken time off work, they've
found time in their busyschedules.
They go, they sit in thewaiting room, they sit in the
room, their doctor comes in andkind of, you know, pats them on
the head and says, just settledown.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (13:16):
Call it the there, there.
Lyn Wineman (13:18):
Oh, the there, there.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (13:20):
Yes.
Lyn Wineman (13:21):
Like I've never actually been patted on the
head, but it feels like it's—
Dr. Jayne Morgan (13:25):
Patting on the back.
It's the "I know best, youhysterical woman."
Lyn Wineman (13:31):
Right?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (13:32):
You in anxiety medication.
Lyn Wineman (13:34):
Yes.
Maybe drink less coffee.
Yes.
Yeah.
Why don't you rest more?
Maybe you should go part-timeat work.
Here's an antidepressant.
We don't— We can't findanything wrong with you.
All of your labs are normal.
Yes.
The labs are normal.
Were you at my last appointment?
(13:54):
This is making my eye twitch.
Just having this conversation.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (13:58):
That's right.
Lyn Wineman (13:58):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (13:59):
That's right.
Lyn Wineman (13:59):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (14:00):
The proverbial there, there.
Lyn Wineman (14:02):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (14:03):
That's right.
I call that that.
Lyn Wineman (14:05):
So what's the— What's— A, what's happening?
B, what's the down— Like,what's the downside?
Should we all just go home anddrink less coffee and meditate
more?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (14:17):
Yeah.
Well, you know, there is somedata that coffee is actually
good for your heart.
Lyn Wineman (14:20):
Alright.
I'm going to have anothersip while we're talking.
We'll have anotherconversation.
That is why we're having thisconversation.
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (14:29):
Because for your listeners out there who are
listening today to me talk, atthe end of this podcast, your
reality may be that you now knowmore than your physicians do.
Lyn Wineman (14:41):
Wow.
Dr. Jayne Morg (14:41):
About menopause.
That's where we are in thisjourney.
So if you are listening, youare really out there on the
leading edge.
And you have to recognize thatdoctors, just like myself, have
never had a single minute oftraining in menopause, have
never had a single minute of alecture in menopause, have never
(15:06):
had the word uttered duringtheir entire training period,
like myself.
Lyn Wineman (15:11):
Wow.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (15:11):
Now, the OBGYNs and primary care
physicians, maybe theyintersected with the word
menopause, but I talk with themoften, and many did not.
And those who did, it was veryminimal.
Maybe an hour or two hours orfour hours.
We're talking about four hourstotal
of— I just told you, it took me 10 years of training.
Lyn Wineman (15:29):
Wow.
So their training is probablyless, maybe seven years or
eight, but it's still that's notnothing.
So seven or eight years oftraining boiled down to one to
four hours of menopause.
Think about years—
Yeah.
Of what they focused on.
(15:49):
So was there an emphasis onthat?
No.
Was there any deep dive onthat?
No.
Did they pick up that this wassomething important?
No.
Yeah, 51% of the population willexperience this and their lives
will be disrupted.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (16:05):
Will be disrupted and changed.
So what I want your listenersto know is it's not your
doctor's fault.
So do not get angry.
We have learned everything thatwas put before us that was
required in our medical trainingand are doing our best to take
care of you.
They literally have never heardthe word menopause.
Lyn Wineman (16:25):
Wow.
Dr (16:25):
As part of medical training.
So you may have to do somedoctor shopping, not in an angry
way, like, oh my God, you're sostupid.
You just have to say, you knowwhat?
I you have done great for methe last 20 years.
You have taken me through sometough times, and you have really
kept me healthy, but I needsomething else now at this stage
(16:50):
of my life.
So I'm going to move to anotherdoctor.
It doesn't mean that I don'tlove you, it just means I'm at a
different stage and I now needsomething differently that
you're not able to provide.
It's been good.
I love you.
I'll see you at your kids'birthday party.
Whatever.
Because they don't know.
And then find physicians, weare increasingly getting people
(17:12):
on board.
It's not fast.
It's not fast, but we aregetting people on board.
I write about it all the time.
I'll have an edition comingout in May with Atlanta
Medicine Magazine.
Lyn Wineman (17:24):
Okay.
So in doctor's offices across,you know, the city of Atlanta.
So we publish, we do socialmedia, and so you know, we're
just doing our— we're doing ourbest, and people are listening.
We're starting to getlegislation passed.
I got a resolution passed inthe state of Georgia in October
(17:46):
of this year.
Amazing.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (17:49):
So people are starting to take notice.
They don't exactly, when I saypeople, I mean physicians, they
don't exactly know what's goingon.
But hey, am I supposed to knowsomething about menopause?
I'm hearing a lot about itbecause it's still not in our
guidelines.
If it's not in our guidelines,it doesn't exist, right?
So hearing some chatter outsidethe guidelines.
(18:11):
What's going on?
And their patients are askingthem, they're unprepared.
It's not in our guidelines,it's never been in any of our
training.
Their patients, some of them,are asking about it.
They're hearing doctors likeme, their friends, chatter, and
they're going, What ishappening?
What does this mean?
I don't know anything about it.
(18:32):
And does it relate to me in mypractice?
I don't know.
I'm a rheumatologist.
Why would I be concerned aboutmenopause?
Because menopause affects thebones and most arthritis.
So rheumatologists have to beinvolved.
So there are many doctors andmany tranches of specialties
that absolutely have no idea howmenopause intersects with them
(18:55):
and so are not listening becausethat doesn't have anything to
do with me.
In fact, most of us, when wehear the word menopause, that's
our OBGYN.
Lyn Wineman (19:04):
Yeah, right.
That is an OBGYN thing.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (19:07):
The OBGYNs take care of that.
Let me— have you talked to yourOBGYN?
You know, that sort of thing.
That's what needs to stopbecause menopause is not, it's
less of a gynecologic footnoteand more of a cardiovascular
inflection point.
Your risk of heart disease willdouble during perimenopause,
(19:31):
and that's because of loss ofestrogen.
The first heart attack in awoman is more often fatal than
the first heart attack of a man.
For all of these things that weare discussing, it is ignored.
Lyn Wineman (19:42):
Wow.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (19:43):
Recognize it.
We are poo-pooed.
We are there, thered many andmeanwhile, we're actually having
a heart attack.
Lyn Wineman (19:50):
Wow.
All right.
So this is a good time for meto ask.
So now you've scared me.
You've made me blush, you'vemade me pick my chin off the
desk.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (19:58):
Not to scare anyone.
This is to empower you withknowledge and information.
I don't want anyone to bescared.
Lyn Wineman (20:04):
Fair, fair.
That is fair.
But what are some of thesymptoms we should look for,
right?
Like, what are some of thethings that—
Dr. Jayne Morgan (20:11):
There are so many symptoms, anywhere from 50
to 60, and that number isprobably increasing.
Listen, have you ever heardabout itchy ears?
Lyn Wineman (20:19):
No.
That was a proper symptom.
Yeah, your ears start to itch.
And the reason your ears startto itch is that estrogen loss
thins the skin.
Some of the skin that we haveis in our inner ear.
So the medication we may haveis our ears start to itch.
(20:40):
Ever thought, have you everconnected the dots to itching
ears to heart disease?
Wow.
Those are literally your earstelling you, hey, your risk of
heart disease is starting toincrease.
Well, and I imagine if you even went into— if your
ears start to itch, yourprobably first instinct, my
(21:00):
first instinct would be I'mgonna go try to find some
eardrops at my local pharmacy.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (21:06):
Or an antihistamine, or maybe like, I
live in Georgia, we have allthis pollen in it.
Lyn Wineman (21:11):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (21:11):
Is what I thought.
Because I live— my ears wereitching.
Literally, remember, I'mtelling you something based on
my experience.
I had never heard of it.
I was a full-blown cardiologistin life.
I'd been practicing for years,my ears were itching, nothing.
(21:32):
Then I had vertigo where youstart to get dizzy.
I went to a neurologist.
Lyn Wineman (21:37):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (21:38):
Big workup.
Neurologist could find nothing.
Nobody asked me aboutmenopause.
I had palpitations.
I went to a cardiologist.
I am a cardiologist.
Lyn Wineman (21:50):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (21:50):
Between the two of us, menopause did not
come up.
I didn't know about it, andthey didn't know anything about
it.
So I had a big cardiologyworkup.
I was having all times— alltypes of abdominal bloating.
That's also because of yourloss of estrogen and
progesterone.
And I was just living with itlike, oh, I'm always bloated.
My primary care physiciansuggested I was lactose
(22:13):
intolerant.
So I'm taking lactate pills andtrying to avoid dairy products
because now I've developedlactose intolerance.
So I've got itching ears,palpitations, lactose
intolerance.
Nobody's telling me, hey, thisis just menopause.
And here's the thing that welearn as physicians, if a
patient comes to you with amultitude of seemingly unrelated
(22:38):
complaints, 10 differentcomplaints, do not work them up
for 10 different things.
Patient does not have 10different things.
Your job is to find the onesyndrome that they have that
incorporates all of thesesymptoms.
And so here I was with all ofthese symptoms, and nobody was
(23:00):
putting ittogether. Again, in their defense, nobody have ever heard of menopause.
Lyn Wineman (23:08):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (23:09):
So there was no correlation.
Nobody had anything to put thattogether.
Even if you, you know, put itinto your differential list, it
doesn't come up with menopausebecause menopause doesn't exist
as a diagnosis.
There's no existence.
It doesn't exist in the medicalworld.
So yeah, even myself, acardiologist, I went from doctor
to doctor to doctor.
(23:31):
I was having hip pain, jointpain.
I was at the rheumatologist, Iwas the neurologist for vertigo,
the cardiologist forpalpitations, I having itchy
ears, I saw an allergies.
I mean, the whole thing.
Lyn Wineman (23:41):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (23:43):
The whole thing.
And in the end, there was noconclusion.
I still didn't know anythingabout menopause.
I just like lived with it.
After a while, the vertigo gotbetter.
They told me to, I was a— I'm aPilates instructor, to do more
downward dogs where your head istrying to reset your eighth
cranial nerve and yourvestibular system.
(24:04):
You know, it was just all thiskind of stuff.
Lyn Wineman (24:06):
Oh my goodness.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (24:07):
And I was just living with it and weight
gains.
Like, and you know, I wasn't somuch gaining weight initially
as it was taking me longer totake the weight off.
Lyn Wineman (24:20):
Right, right, right.
Through our lives, we've allkind of got, we all kind of
know.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (24:24):
Yeah, we kind of know, like, oh, I put on 50
pounds now, this is what I haveto do to take it off.
Lyn Wineman (24:28):
Yeah.
Suddenly my tricks weren'tworking anymore.
They were taking longer.
It wasn't so I was, you know,so I was maintaining my weight,
but I was starting to struggle abit.
You know, but these are thekinds of things that you
incorporate into your lifestyle,and you're not, you're aware of
them, but it's not reallyimpacting you.
I can still fit into all of myclothes, but I'm struggling a
(24:49):
little bit more to maintain thisweight.
So that's really how it firststarted.
That it was harder for me.
It was all the same things, andit was taking longer.
Yeah, and then got to the pointwhere not only was it taking it
longer, I had to add morethings, like an extra 30 minutes
of exercise, or restricted mycalories even a bit more.
(25:11):
So now it was not only takinglonger, I had to even be more
extreme.
So it started, it started to bethis heel that was
harder and higher and hard to decline.
And you didn't feel well.
Yeah.
I tried to like, even maintain my weight started to be like a thing. I'mlike, oh my god, this is like a
whole thing now.
(25:33):
Dr.
Morgan, I love this becauseit's been so enlightening and
even has given me empathy forthe medical professionals,
right?
Because if you weren't trainedin this space, I know, I know
every doctor I've ever visitedtruly wants to give me the
answer I need, but sometimesit's not apparent.
(25:54):
And if it wasn't part of thetraining,
Dr. Jayne Morgan (25:56):
And not a part of our guidelines.
Lyn Wineman (25:59):
And not a part of the guidelines.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (26:01):
There you go.
Lyn Wineman (26:01):
You know, it helps me understand.
So, for all the women who arelistening to this episode, if
there was one thing they coulddo this week to advocate for or
help themselves throughmenopause and just their
general health, what would yourecommend?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (26:21):
So I would say first, make sure you tell
yourself that you are not crazy.
You are not a main thing.
Secondly, I would tell yourselfyou deserve to feel well.
So oftentimes, women, you know,we kind of soldier through.
Lyn Wineman (26:37):
Oh, we do, we do.
And just like me, I was livingwith abdominal bloating, taking
lactate pills, struggling withmy weight, it was just kind of
like my new reality.
You do not have to live thatway.
And I want you to know thateven for myself, I was telling
myself that my symptoms weretolerable and that I could live.
(27:00):
You should take a hard look atwhat you're living with.
And if you can't figure itout, think about how you're
living now in comparison to howyou were living 10 years ago.
Like for example, I'm poppinglactate pills now, I'm
exercising 30 minutes more, I'mdoing downward dogs for my
(27:22):
vestibular.
You know, think about thingslike that.
Do not incorporate it into yourlife.
You're like, no, I'm fine.
Think about what are you doingnow?
Yeah.
That's different from 10 yearsbecause it creeps up on you.
It just is like, oh, these arejust little things that I'm
doing.
And ask yourself is that thequality of life that you would
like to have?
And then ask yourself this nextquestion: what kind of life do
(27:43):
I want 10 years from now?
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (27:45):
And if I continue in this vein of
accepting my fate and adjustingmy life to all of these new
symptoms, then 10 years fromnow, I would be at even further
risk of heart disease.
Why?
I didn't address it because Ididn't think it was important,
(28:05):
and the health system didn'tthink it was important because
it's a blind spot.
So have the conversation abouthormone replacement therapy.
It's not for everybody, but Iwant you to have that
conversation.
And that may mean you have todoctor shop because remember,
most doctors have not beentrained on it yet.
But you need to talk about whatit looks like with estrogen
replacement, progesterone,testosterone.
(28:27):
You need to have thoseconversations.
Secondly, if they if that's notright for you or you don't want
to even discuss it, which isfine, there are also vasomotor
drugs, meaning drugs, alsoprescription medications that
can control hot flashes, nightsweats, if that's your
predominant symptom, if thoseare the symptoms that are
predominant for you.
(28:49):
So, what I'm saying, if there'sone thing that you can do, I
want you to be empowered to knowthat you're not crazy.
Lyn Wineman (28:55):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (28:56):
You deserve to feel as good as you felt 10
years ago.
You don't have to live withdoing downward dogs and taking
lactate pills, exercising evenmore than I was already
exercising as a Pilatesinstructor.
Lyn Wineman (29:12):
Oh my goodness.
At some point, you like can'tdo anymore.
Right.
You have to sleep a little bit,right?
Like you have to sleep, youhave to have some fun.
Yeah, I love all of this.
You know, I could listen to youfor hours and hours, but I know
we're kind of closing in here.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (29:32):
Yeah.
Lyn Wineman (29:32):
Are there any great resources for women?
Like if they wanted to followyou, what would you recommend?
Well, here are people to follow. Follow me, for sure, Dr. Jayne Morgan.
Okay.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (29:44):
I am a cardiologist, and I have been
really the first voice in thisspace to—
Lyn Wineman (29:49):
I love it.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (29:50):
About cardiology is connected to
menopause.
Your menopausal symptoms aretelling you that your risk of
heart disease is increasing.
That's what you need to thinkabout when you're doing those
downward dogs to reset yourmiddle ear.
What was missed is actually,this is a risk factor for heart
(30:11):
disease.
Lyn Wineman (30:11):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (30:12):
You need to have all those preventive
measures done at yourphysician's office.
That means checking yourcholesterol, getting your blood
pressure under control, workingon what needs to happen with
your weight, having your LPlittle A, a specific type of
cholesterol check.
These are all things you can dofor prevention.
If you're smoking, quit.
Lyn Wineman (30:33):
Yeah.
If you're drinking alcohol, cutback on it.
So these are things where youneed to aggressively begin to
address what's happening withyou.
So you can follow me, Dr.
Jayne, D-R.
J -A -Y.
There's a Y in my first name.
Thank you, mom and dad.
Dr.
Jayne, J- A- Y- N- E -M -O -R-G -A -N.
(30:53):
I'm on Instagram, LinkedIn,Jayne Morgan, M .D., but I'm on
a lot of other platforms aswell.
Threads and X, and on Facebook,you can actually find me at
Forty Million Beats.
F-O-R-T-Y.
It's spelled out.
Okay.
Dr. Jayne (31:09):
Forty Million Beats.
That's actually the name of mymenopause company.
Lyn Wineman (31:13):
I love it.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (31:14):
Clinical research terms.
So you can find me there.
But, Instagram is where I do alot.
And then other people tofollow, Dr.
Sharon Malone, who, you know,as I said, she and I got
together to actually firstconnect these dots.
And she really has been outthere leading it.
And her Instagram is smalone mdAnd then, you know, great
(31:34):
people like Mary Claire Haver.
If you see her on Instagram,Mary Claire Haver and a
urologist, Kelly Kesler.
And an orthopedic surgeon, Dr.
Vonda Wright.
Lyn Wineman (31:47):
Wow.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (31:47):
So people are because we are beginning to
connect the dots, that thesespecialties are important.
So you have an orthopedicsurgeon, you've got a urologist,
you have OBGYN.
Now you have a cardiologist whoentered the space to say, no,
this is all cardiovascular.
Lyn Wineman (32:04):
Wow.
Wow.
We are going to get all ofthose links in the show notes to
this episode, too.
So if you are listening and youwant to follow all of these
great experts.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (32:16):
And they're all different, right?
These are all different people.
Lyn Wineman (32:19):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (32:19):
So if you follow me, I'm talking about the
heart and women and your hearthealth.
Heart disease is a number onekiller of women.
And your risk of heart diseasedoubles during menopause.
That's what I talk about.
Lyn Wineman (32:32):
Okay.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
I can't wait.
I can't wait to follow all ofyou.
Once again, I'm seeing all ofthese bubbles that you
referenced at the beginningcoming together.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (32:43):
Coming together.
Lyn Wineman (32:44):
Yeah.
Dr.
Morgan—
Dr. Jayne Morgan (32:45):
In unassociated bubbles, but here
we are.
Lyn Wineman (32:48):
Here we are.
I love it.
I want to ask you one questionthat I've asked on every episode
of the Agency for Changepodcast.
And you are so inspiring.
You have so much to say.
I've asked all of my guests foran original quote to inspire
our listeners.
Can you give us a Dr.
Jayne Morgan original quote?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (33:10):
You know, I would say, and I don't know if
this is original, but I— Thereare two things that I often say.
Consistency beats intensityevery single time.
So be consistent with yourpreventive heart health
practices.
It is over time that you getthose results.
You don't just jump in one dayand it's like, you know what,
(33:33):
I'm going to be a triathletetoday.
Consistency in really all areasof your life beats intensity.
And then something else I say,I'm in the M pause, the M
Factor (33:44):
Before the Pause movie.
It's coming out tomorrow onPBS.
Really?
March 15th.
It's coming out tomorrow onPBS.
Lyn Wineman (33:53):
We're going to watch for that and get that link
in the show notes as well.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (33:57):
I am in the movie.
And here's what I say at theend.
So now I'll give you the lastcomment of the movie, is my
comment.
Okay.
There are seven days of theweek, and someday isn't one of
them.
So I want you to take care ofyour health today.
But what do women always say?
(34:17):
We'll do it someday.
No, no, no, no, no.
There are seven days of theweek, and someday is not one of
them.
Lyn Wineman (34:25):
I love that so much.
Dr.
Morgan, this has been such aninspiring and informational
conversation.
Yeah, I'm glad we got it going, we were–
I know.
Dr. Jayne Morga (34:36):
Struggling with our calendars.
Lyn Wineman (34:38):
You're a hard person to schedule, and I
completely understand why.
I feel so lucky to have thistime with you.
I want to say I believe theworld needs more people like
you, more doctors that are doingthis good work.
And I just so appreciate youtaking the time today.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (34:58):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate the invitation.
And people, please follow meand you can send me questions
right there.
You can DM me right there, andI'm happy to answer your
questions.
And oftentimes on Wednesdays,especially, not sure what I'll
be doing this week, but I postStairwell Chronicles.
So you will see me literallysitting on my stairs talking to
you, giving you a little snippetof information that you can
(35:21):
just file away and continue togrow.
Lyn Wineman (35:25):
That sounds fantastic.
We can all find one minute aweek to take care of
ourselves better.
Dr.
Morgan, thank you so much.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (35:34):
Thanks, bye.
Announcer (35:37):
We hope you enjoyed today's Agency for Change
podcast.
To hear all our interviews withthose who are making a positive
change in our communities, orto nominate a change maker you'd
love to hear from, visitKidGlov.com at K-I-D-G-L-O-V dot
com to get in touch.
As always, if you like whatyou've heard today, be sure to
rate, review, subscribe, andshare.
(35:58):
Thanks for listening, and we'llsee you next time.
Consistency beats intensity every single
time.
Announcer (00:08):
Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov
that brings you the stories ofchange makers who are actively
working to improve ourcommunities.
In every episode, we'll meetwith people who are making a
lasting impact in the places wecall home.
Lyn Wineman (00:32):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Agency for
Change podcast.
This is Lyn Wineman, presidentand chief strategist at KidGlov.
So a few weeks ago, we releasedan episode on women's health
advocacy.
And in that conversation, theguests touched on an issue that
impacts every woman, and yet itis rarely talked about as openly
(00:56):
as it should be.
And that conversation actuallyled me to today's guest, Dr.
Jayne Morgan.
She is a leading cardiologistand a powerful advocate for
women navigating.
Yes, I'm going to use theM-word, menopause.
And she is especially focusedon when it comes to
(01:20):
understanding that very realconnection between menopause and
heart health.
So instead of our normal setuphere, Dr.
Morgan has so much toshare. We're just gonna step right into the heart of our conversation.
Enjoy.
So, Dr.
Morgan, you know how this cameabout?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (01:42):
No, I don't.
Lyn Wineman (01:43):
Oh, well, I was doing a podcast on women's
health advocacy.
And in the podcast, Liz andNada, who are my guests, they
they brought up menopause.
And I think I blushed first.
I am a woman of a certain age.
I think I blushed.
And then I said, I think I'venever said menopause in public.
(02:07):
And much less on a podcast that500 to a thousand people are
gonna listen to.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (02:14):
Isn't that amazing?
Lyn Wineman (02:15):
Right.
And then they said, Lyn, youshould be talking about this all
the time.
You need to talk to our friendDr.
Morgan.
And here we are.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (02:27):
Now is the time.
So let's just get it out inpublic.
Menopause, menopause,menopause, menopause, menopause.
Now we have said it.
Lyn Wineman (02:36):
All right.
Dr. Jayne M (02:36):
It's out in public.
Lyn Wineman (02:37):
And you know what?
I am still blushing.
And I know that's ridiculous,right?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (02:42):
That's okay.
Lyn Wineman (02:43):
I'm 59 years old.
I don't blush that oftenanymore.
But yes, it's a topic that's alittle bit taboo.
So as we dive in—
Dr. Jayne Morgan (02:53):
That's exactly what we're working against.
This, you know, the veil ofsecrecy, the veil of science,
silence, the veil of shame.
The veil, no, let's not talkabout it, the veil of suffering.
Lyn Wineman (03:06):
Right.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (03:06):
Enough.
So that's okay if you'reblushing.
I'm not.
Okay.
So I can speak on your behalf.
Lyn Wineman (03:12):
Thank you.
Thank you. I'm not speechless.
I'm just, you know, a littlebit hot in the cheeks, right?
But it is ridiculous becausemost, if not all, women are
going to go through it.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (03:24):
Right.
Lyn Wineman (03:25):
And why do we pretend like we're not?
Right?
Why do we why do we suffer insilence?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (03:32):
Right.
We suffer in silence.
It's in whispers and—
Lyn Wineman (03:37):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (03:37):
And it's all reduced to hot flashes and
night sweats.
We have no other information.
And here's the interestingpart.
Lyn Wineman (03:45):
Right.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (03:46):
Doctors don't either.
That's why I'm on this crusade.
Doctors also have noinformation on it.
We have no training on it.
In my entire medical training,that's over 10 years, medical
school, residency, a cardiologyfellowship.
(04:06):
Yeah.
The word menopause was never used in a
lecture, in a textbook, on anexam.
I completed 10 years oftraining.
Lyn Wineman (04:17):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (04:18):
I'm a cardiologist, and never once did
I hear the word menopause.
Lyn Wineman (04:23):
Wow.
Not even once.
Okay.
Now, while I, because you'vealready just in a short minute,
you've made me blush.
And now I'm going to pick mychin up off the floor, right?
And I think this is a good timeto have you tell us about your
background, right?
Before we go deeper into thetopic, tell us a little bit
about what you do.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (04:44):
Sure.
So I am a cardiologist, and Iam the vice president of medical
affairs for Hello Heart.
It's the digital heart healthcompany, as we work on
empowering people to actuallyhave some agency over their own
lives and their ownhealth. Imagine that.
Lyn Wineman (04:59):
Yes.
And especially for women, it'sespecially important for
menopause.
And we focus on that in mycompany at Hello Heart as well.
I am a cardiologist.
So did all of medical school,all of my internal medicine
residency, all of my cardiologyfellowship.
So I am supposedly adequatelyprepared to take care of the
(05:25):
population.
And yet I have learned in myexperience that really had very
little to do with my training,that I am inadequately prepared
to take care of 51.2% of thepopulation, which are the women.
Wow.
And I learned that later in mycareer, as my career wound
(05:46):
through research and when I sayresearch, I mean real hard
R and D, research anddevelopment.
I worked in Pharma.
I worked at SolvayPharmaceuticals.
I worked at AbbVie.
I developed protocols.
I enrolled people into clinicaltrials.
I traveled all over the globe,giving lectures and speaking
with our principalinvestigators.
(06:07):
I was hardcore R and D.
So I understand how clinicaltrials work.
And all of these little bubblesoccurred in my life where I
lived in different bubbles.
I was in my training, that wasmy little bubble.
Then I went out to practice,right?
That's my little bubble as anew physician.
I went into research.
I'm in another bubble thatseemingly is, you know,
(06:28):
unrelated.
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (06:30):
And but it turns out that all these bubbles
eventually, this is how thebrain works, you start to
intersect them.
Lyn Wineman (06:37):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (06:38):
This is what life experience is.
And when I intersected all thebubbles, right in the middle was
a big hole on women.
And I realized that in mypractice because in my training,
because when we admitted women,we often describe their chest
pain as atypical.
And I noted, I don't ever admitmen, and I'm describing their
chest pain as atypical.
Lyn Wineman (06:58):
Interesting.
Why am I describing women'schest pain as atypical?
And when you think about thatword, that word drives action or
inaction, right?
Basically, atypical triages youto a lower level of care and
concern.
You will not be moving forwardwith more aggressive therapy as
your male counterpart will withclassic.
We call the man symptoms,classic.
(07:18):
Classic, oh my goodness.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (07:20):
Shortness of breath.
You know, so there is thatbubble where I'm having a
question in my head, what?
Am I imagining this?
Or only—
Lyn Wineman (07:27):
Yeah
But nobody else was talkingabout, of course, I'm in a
training program of all men.
So it's like, a "huh?" Is thisme or what is happening here?
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (07:38):
Going to research, I'm enrolling people
in trials.
I realize I don't really see alot of women in trials.
I don't really see a lot ofminorities, but I bring it up.
It's not really that important.
The same as in my training.
So I'm just working, and yetI've got this "huh?" in my head,
right?
Lyn Wineman (07:53):
Yeah
And so you go and you're livingin all these little bubbles,
and here I am at this part of mylife.
And I started to intersectthose bubbles because I've been
in all these different placesand I've seen these "huh?"
moments everywhere I've beenthat were blind spots to the
people around me.
And now I have the ability tobring that together to say, you
(08:14):
know what?
At the center of all these"huh?" bubbles that I've been in
are women and menopause.
And so atypical was not myimagination.
The research was not myimagination.
It was me bringing a differentlens and a different perspective
to the table that the men therewere unable to see and unable
(08:35):
to accept.
And I was unable to moveforward with it because I was
not in a position of power.
Right, right.
Wow.
So I'm picturing, I love, Ilove the dynamic of how you're
explaining this.
I'm picturing all of theselittle bubbles floating around.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (08:52):
Giving work in, right.
Lyn Wineman (08:53):
Yep.
And I'm wondering how do thebubbles then of cardiac
instances or cardiac disease andmenopause come together.
How do they intersect?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (09:06):
Yeah, and so yet another bubble.
Lyn Wineman (09:09):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (09:09):
So COVID hits, and I begin.
Here's my next bubble.
Lyn Wineman (09:14):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (09:15):
Do more public relations, community service,
social media.
I start publishing data onCOVID patients, especially with
regard to minorities andminority enrollments into
trials.
I start speaking out about it.
I create a social media seriescalled the Stairwell Chronicles,
where I sit on my stairs andfor 60 seconds, I explain
(09:39):
something about medicine.
It started with COVID and thevaccine and then transitioned
over into cardiology, which iswhat I am, and research and
women.
And people started to listenand started to enjoy it.
It was just one-minute littlesnippets of information.
And in doing so on socialmedia, I started to be connected
with a lot of OBGYNs.
(10:00):
The number one person was Dr.
Sharon Malone, who's a verygood friend of mine.
And so I was already followingher on social media.
So it wasn't following anyparticular doctors, I was just
connected with my friends.
Lyn Wineman (10:11):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (10:11):
And many of my friends were doctors.
And so Dr.
Sharon Malone was talking aboutmenopause.
And I would listen because I'mconnected with her on social
media.
And I was doing my StairwellChronicles over here separately.
I'm in my other bubble.
And I think I started torealize, and maybe she and I
both started to realize at thesame time wait a second, there's
(10:31):
some interconnectivity herebecause I was also talking about
how estrogen impacts the heart.
She's talking about menopause.
So we came together on mystairs.
We did a Stairwell Chronicles.
Lyn Wineman (10:43):
I love it.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (10:44):
And talked about what we began to first
explore, what that intersectionwas.
I think Sharon and I were thefirst ones to really explore
there is a connection betweenestrogen and menopause, and it
is not small.
There is a huge connectionhere.
Lyn Wineman (11:02):
Wow.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (11:02):
So here was yet another bubble that I was
in in media, social media,public advocacy, speaking about
COVID, trying to educatepeople.
So I went into this otherbubble and social media.
Lyn Wineman (11:19):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (11:19):
And began to find other interconnections.
And so all of the areas thatI've been in in life that you
think are not connected—
Lyn Wineman (11:28):
Right.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (11:28):
Are all adding up to an experience that's
unique to you.
Lyn Wineman (11:32):
Right.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (11:33):
That then set me up to have a lens and a
perspective that was so uniqueand sitting at the cusp of
something that you don't evenknow how you're being set up
over life, right?
And this is— was not short.
I'm talking about over two orthree decades.
You know, I spent 10 years intraining, eight years in pharma,
(11:53):
but you know, I'm literallydeep in and learning everywhere
I'm going, but I'm havingquestions everywhere I go.
I'm having a question, I'mhaving a question.
Lyn Wineman (12:04):
Right.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (12:05):
At the end of it, here social media, I was
able to start putting ittogether.
So Sharon was talking about it.
So through Sharon, I startedmeeting all of these other
OBGYNs who were talking aboutit.
I'm the only cardiologistthere.
I'm bringing this other lensand I'm going, hey guys, this is
actually a cardiology problem.
(12:26):
Uh-huh.
Think about this.
That's because I had been inall these separate and seemingly
distinct and unconnectedbubbles.
And now all the bubbles werenow intersecting.
Lyn Wineman (12:37):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (12:38):
Menopause.
Yes.
Lyn Wineman (12:39):
So let's add another bubble because one of
the things that I hear fromfamily members, from friends,
from people I work with isthere's this thing that happens.
Women doubt themselves beforethey go into the doctor.
They're like, is this real?
Is it not real?
(13:00):
They go to the doctor, they'vetaken time off work, they've
found time in their busyschedules.
They go, they sit in thewaiting room, they sit in the
room, their doctor comes in andkind of, you know, pats them on
the head and says, just settledown.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (13:16):
Call it the there, there.
Lyn Wineman (13:18):
Oh, the there, there.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (13:20):
Yes.
Lyn Wineman (13:21):
Like I've never actually been patted on the
head, but it feels like it's—
Dr. Jayne Morgan (13:25):
Patting on the back.
It's the "I know best, youhysterical woman."
Lyn Wineman (13:31):
Right?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (13:32):
You in anxiety medication.
Lyn Wineman (13:34):
Yes.
Maybe drink less coffee.
Yes.
Yeah.
Why don't you rest more?
Maybe you should go part-timeat work.
Here's an antidepressant.
We don't— We can't findanything wrong with you.
All of your labs are normal.
Yes.
The labs are normal.
Were you at my last appointment?
(13:54):
This is making my eye twitch.
Just having this conversation.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (13:58):
That's right.
Lyn Wineman (13:58):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (13:59):
That's right.
Lyn Wineman (13:59):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (14:00):
The proverbial there, there.
Lyn Wineman (14:02):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (14:03):
That's right.
I call that that.
Lyn Wineman (14:05):
So what's the— What's— A, what's happening?
B, what's the down— Like,what's the downside?
Should we all just go home anddrink less coffee and meditate
more?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (14:17):
Yeah.
Well, you know, there is somedata that coffee is actually
good for your heart.
Lyn Wineman (14:20):
Alright.
I'm going to have anothersip while we're talking.
We'll have anotherconversation.
That is why we're having thisconversation.
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (14:29):
Because for your listeners out there who are
listening today to me talk, atthe end of this podcast, your
reality may be that you now knowmore than your physicians do.
Lyn Wineman (14:41):
Wow.
Dr. Jayne Morg (14:41):
About menopause.
That's where we are in thisjourney.
So if you are listening, youare really out there on the
leading edge.
And you have to recognize thatdoctors, just like myself, have
never had a single minute oftraining in menopause, have
never had a single minute of alecture in menopause, have never
(15:06):
had the word uttered duringtheir entire training period,
like myself.
Lyn Wineman (15:11):
Wow.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (15:11):
Now, the OBGYNs and primary care
physicians, maybe theyintersected with the word
menopause, but I talk with themoften, and many did not.
And those who did, it was veryminimal.
Maybe an hour or two hours orfour hours.
We're talking about four hourstotal
of— I just told you, it took me 10 years of training.
Lyn Wineman (15:29):
Wow.
So their training is probablyless, maybe seven years or
eight, but it's still that's notnothing.
So seven or eight years oftraining boiled down to one to
four hours of menopause.
Think about years—
Yeah.
Of what they focused on.
(15:49):
So was there an emphasis onthat?
No.
Was there any deep dive onthat?
No.
Did they pick up that this wassomething important?
No.
Yeah, 51% of the population willexperience this and their lives
will be disrupted.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (16:05):
Will be disrupted and changed.
So what I want your listenersto know is it's not your
doctor's fault.
So do not get angry.
We have learned everything thatwas put before us that was
required in our medical trainingand are doing our best to take
care of you.
They literally have never heardthe word menopause.
Lyn Wineman (16:25):
Wow.
Dr (16:25):
As part of medical training.
So you may have to do somedoctor shopping, not in an angry
way, like, oh my God, you're sostupid.
You just have to say, you knowwhat?
I you have done great for methe last 20 years.
You have taken me through sometough times, and you have really
kept me healthy, but I needsomething else now at this stage
(16:50):
of my life.
So I'm going to move to anotherdoctor.
It doesn't mean that I don'tlove you, it just means I'm at a
different stage and I now needsomething differently that
you're not able to provide.
It's been good.
I love you.
I'll see you at your kids'birthday party.
Whatever.
Because they don't know.
And then find physicians, weare increasingly getting people
(17:12):
on board.
It's not fast.
It's not fast, but we aregetting people on board.
I write about it all the time.
I'll have an edition comingout in May with Atlanta
Medicine Magazine.
Lyn Wineman (17:24):
Okay.
So in doctor's offices across,you know, the city of Atlanta.
So we publish, we do socialmedia, and so you know, we're
just doing our— we're doing ourbest, and people are listening.
We're starting to getlegislation passed.
I got a resolution passed inthe state of Georgia in October
(17:46):
of this year.
Amazing.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (17:49):
So people are starting to take notice.
They don't exactly, when I saypeople, I mean physicians, they
don't exactly know what's goingon.
But hey, am I supposed to knowsomething about menopause?
I'm hearing a lot about itbecause it's still not in our
guidelines.
If it's not in our guidelines,it doesn't exist, right?
So hearing some chatter outsidethe guidelines.
(18:11):
What's going on?
And their patients are askingthem, they're unprepared.
It's not in our guidelines,it's never been in any of our
training.
Their patients, some of them,are asking about it.
They're hearing doctors likeme, their friends, chatter, and
they're going, What ishappening?
What does this mean?
I don't know anything about it.
(18:32):
And does it relate to me in mypractice?
I don't know.
I'm a rheumatologist.
Why would I be concerned aboutmenopause?
Because menopause affects thebones and most arthritis.
So rheumatologists have to beinvolved.
So there are many doctors andmany tranches of specialties
that absolutely have no idea howmenopause intersects with them
(18:55):
and so are not listening becausethat doesn't have anything to
do with me.
In fact, most of us, when wehear the word menopause, that's
our OBGYN.
Lyn Wineman (19:04):
Yeah, right.
That is an OBGYN thing.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (19:07):
The OBGYNs take care of that.
Let me— have you talked to yourOBGYN?
You know, that sort of thing.
That's what needs to stopbecause menopause is not, it's
less of a gynecologic footnoteand more of a cardiovascular
inflection point.
Your risk of heart disease willdouble during perimenopause,
(19:31):
and that's because of loss ofestrogen.
The first heart attack in awoman is more often fatal than
the first heart attack of a man.
For all of these things that weare discussing, it is ignored.
Lyn Wineman (19:42):
Wow.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (19:43):
Recognize it.
We are poo-pooed.
We are there, thered many andmeanwhile, we're actually having
a heart attack.
Lyn Wineman (19:50):
Wow.
All right.
So this is a good time for meto ask.
So now you've scared me.
You've made me blush, you'vemade me pick my chin off the
desk.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (19:58):
Not to scare anyone.
This is to empower you withknowledge and information.
I don't want anyone to bescared.
Lyn Wineman (20:04):
Fair, fair.
That is fair.
But what are some of thesymptoms we should look for,
right?
Like, what are some of thethings that—
Dr. Jayne Morgan (20:11):
There are so many symptoms, anywhere from 50
to 60, and that number isprobably increasing.
Listen, have you ever heardabout itchy ears?
Lyn Wineman (20:19):
No.
That was a proper symptom.
Yeah, your ears start to itch.
And the reason your ears startto itch is that estrogen loss
thins the skin.
Some of the skin that we haveis in our inner ear.
So the medication we may haveis our ears start to itch.
(20:40):
Ever thought, have you everconnected the dots to itching
ears to heart disease?
Wow.
Those are literally your earstelling you, hey, your risk of
heart disease is starting toincrease.
Well, and I imagine if you even went into— if your
ears start to itch, yourprobably first instinct, my
(21:00):
first instinct would be I'mgonna go try to find some
eardrops at my local pharmacy.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (21:06):
Or an antihistamine, or maybe like, I
live in Georgia, we have allthis pollen in it.
Lyn Wineman (21:11):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (21:11):
Is what I thought.
Because I live— my ears wereitching.
Literally, remember, I'mtelling you something based on
my experience.
I had never heard of it.
I was a full-blown cardiologistin life.
I'd been practicing for years,my ears were itching, nothing.
(21:32):
Then I had vertigo where youstart to get dizzy.
I went to a neurologist.
Lyn Wineman (21:37):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (21:38):
Big workup.
Neurologist could find nothing.
Nobody asked me aboutmenopause.
I had palpitations.
I went to a cardiologist.
I am a cardiologist.
Lyn Wineman (21:50):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (21:50):
Between the two of us, menopause did not
come up.
I didn't know about it, andthey didn't know anything about
it.
So I had a big cardiologyworkup.
I was having all times— alltypes of abdominal bloating.
That's also because of yourloss of estrogen and
progesterone.
And I was just living with itlike, oh, I'm always bloated.
My primary care physiciansuggested I was lactose
(22:13):
intolerant.
So I'm taking lactate pills andtrying to avoid dairy products
because now I've developedlactose intolerance.
So I've got itching ears,palpitations, lactose
intolerance.
Nobody's telling me, hey, thisis just menopause.
And here's the thing that welearn as physicians, if a
patient comes to you with amultitude of seemingly unrelated
(22:38):
complaints, 10 differentcomplaints, do not work them up
for 10 different things.
Patient does not have 10different things.
Your job is to find the onesyndrome that they have that
incorporates all of thesesymptoms.
And so here I was with all ofthese symptoms, and nobody was
(23:00):
putting ittogether. Again, in their defense, nobody have ever heard of menopause.
Lyn Wineman (23:08):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (23:09):
So there was no correlation.
Nobody had anything to put thattogether.
Even if you, you know, put itinto your differential list, it
doesn't come up with menopausebecause menopause doesn't exist
as a diagnosis.
There's no existence.
It doesn't exist in the medicalworld.
So yeah, even myself, acardiologist, I went from doctor
to doctor to doctor.
(23:31):
I was having hip pain, jointpain.
I was at the rheumatologist, Iwas the neurologist for vertigo,
the cardiologist forpalpitations, I having itchy
ears, I saw an allergies.
I mean, the whole thing.
Lyn Wineman (23:41):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (23:43):
The whole thing.
And in the end, there was noconclusion.
I still didn't know anythingabout menopause.
I just like lived with it.
After a while, the vertigo gotbetter.
They told me to, I was a— I'm aPilates instructor, to do more
downward dogs where your head istrying to reset your eighth
cranial nerve and yourvestibular system.
(24:04):
You know, it was just all thiskind of stuff.
Lyn Wineman (24:06):
Oh my goodness.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (24:07):
And I was just living with it and weight
gains.
Like, and you know, I wasn't somuch gaining weight initially
as it was taking me longer totake the weight off.
Lyn Wineman (24:20):
Right, right, right.
Through our lives, we've allkind of got, we all kind of
know.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (24:24):
Yeah, we kind of know, like, oh, I put on 50
pounds now, this is what I haveto do to take it off.
Lyn Wineman (24:28):
Yeah.
Suddenly my tricks weren'tworking anymore.
They were taking longer.
It wasn't so I was, you know,so I was maintaining my weight,
but I was starting to struggle abit.
You know, but these are thekinds of things that you
incorporate into your lifestyle,and you're not, you're aware of
them, but it's not reallyimpacting you.
I can still fit into all of myclothes, but I'm struggling a
(24:49):
little bit more to maintain thisweight.
So that's really how it firststarted.
That it was harder for me.
It was all the same things, andit was taking longer.
Yeah, and then got to the pointwhere not only was it taking it
longer, I had to add morethings, like an extra 30 minutes
of exercise, or restricted mycalories even a bit more.
(25:11):
So now it was not only takinglonger, I had to even be more
extreme.
So it started, it started to bethis heel that was
harder and higher and hard to decline.
And you didn't feel well.
Yeah.
I tried to like, even maintain my weight started to be like a thing. I'mlike, oh my god, this is like a
whole thing now.
(25:33):
Dr.
Morgan, I love this becauseit's been so enlightening and
even has given me empathy forthe medical professionals,
right?
Because if you weren't trainedin this space, I know, I know
every doctor I've ever visitedtruly wants to give me the
answer I need, but sometimesit's not apparent.
(25:54):
And if it wasn't part of thetraining,
Dr. Jayne Morgan (25:56):
And not a part of our guidelines.
Lyn Wineman (25:59):
And not a part of the guidelines.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (26:01):
There you go.
Lyn Wineman (26:01):
You know, it helps me understand.
So, for all the women who arelistening to this episode, if
there was one thing they coulddo this week to advocate for or
help themselves throughmenopause and just their
general health, what would yourecommend?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (26:21):
So I would say first, make sure you tell
yourself that you are not crazy.
You are not a main thing.
Secondly, I would tell yourselfyou deserve to feel well.
So oftentimes, women, you know,we kind of soldier through.
Lyn Wineman (26:37):
Oh, we do, we do.
And just like me, I was livingwith abdominal bloating, taking
lactate pills, struggling withmy weight, it was just kind of
like my new reality.
You do not have to live thatway.
And I want you to know thateven for myself, I was telling
myself that my symptoms weretolerable and that I could live.
(27:00):
You should take a hard look atwhat you're living with.
And if you can't figure itout, think about how you're
living now in comparison to howyou were living 10 years ago.
Like for example, I'm poppinglactate pills now, I'm
exercising 30 minutes more, I'mdoing downward dogs for my
(27:22):
vestibular.
You know, think about thingslike that.
Do not incorporate it into yourlife.
You're like, no, I'm fine.
Think about what are you doingnow?
Yeah.
That's different from 10 yearsbecause it creeps up on you.
It just is like, oh, these arejust little things that I'm
doing.
And ask yourself is that thequality of life that you would
like to have?
And then ask yourself this nextquestion: what kind of life do
(27:43):
I want 10 years from now?
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (27:45):
And if I continue in this vein of
accepting my fate and adjustingmy life to all of these new
symptoms, then 10 years fromnow, I would be at even further
risk of heart disease.
Why?
I didn't address it because Ididn't think it was important,
(28:05):
and the health system didn'tthink it was important because
it's a blind spot.
So have the conversation abouthormone replacement therapy.
It's not for everybody, but Iwant you to have that
conversation.
And that may mean you have todoctor shop because remember,
most doctors have not beentrained on it yet.
But you need to talk about whatit looks like with estrogen
replacement, progesterone,testosterone.
(28:27):
You need to have thoseconversations.
Secondly, if they if that's notright for you or you don't want
to even discuss it, which isfine, there are also vasomotor
drugs, meaning drugs, alsoprescription medications that
can control hot flashes, nightsweats, if that's your
predominant symptom, if thoseare the symptoms that are
predominant for you.
(28:49):
So, what I'm saying, if there'sone thing that you can do, I
want you to be empowered to knowthat you're not crazy.
Lyn Wineman (28:55):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (28:56):
You deserve to feel as good as you felt 10
years ago.
You don't have to live withdoing downward dogs and taking
lactate pills, exercising evenmore than I was already
exercising as a Pilatesinstructor.
Lyn Wineman (29:12):
Oh my goodness.
At some point, you like can'tdo anymore.
Right.
You have to sleep a little bit,right?
Like you have to sleep, youhave to have some fun.
Yeah, I love all of this.
You know, I could listen to youfor hours and hours, but I know
we're kind of closing in here.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (29:32):
Yeah.
Lyn Wineman (29:32):
Are there any great resources for women?
Like if they wanted to followyou, what would you recommend?
Well, here are people to follow. Follow me, for sure, Dr. Jayne Morgan.
Okay.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (29:44):
I am a cardiologist, and I have been
really the first voice in thisspace to—
Lyn Wineman (29:49):
I love it.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (29:50):
About cardiology is connected to
menopause.
Your menopausal symptoms aretelling you that your risk of
heart disease is increasing.
That's what you need to thinkabout when you're doing those
downward dogs to reset yourmiddle ear.
What was missed is actually,this is a risk factor for heart
(30:11):
disease.
Lyn Wineman (30:11):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (30:12):
You need to have all those preventive
measures done at yourphysician's office.
That means checking yourcholesterol, getting your blood
pressure under control, workingon what needs to happen with
your weight, having your LPlittle A, a specific type of
cholesterol check.
These are all things you can dofor prevention.
If you're smoking, quit.
Lyn Wineman (30:33):
Yeah.
If you're drinking alcohol, cutback on it.
So these are things where youneed to aggressively begin to
address what's happening withyou.
So you can follow me, Dr.
Jayne, D-R.
J -A -Y.
There's a Y in my first name.
Thank you, mom and dad.
Dr.
Jayne, J- A- Y- N- E -M -O -R-G -A -N.
(30:53):
I'm on Instagram, LinkedIn,Jayne Morgan, M .D., but I'm on
a lot of other platforms aswell.
Threads and X, and on Facebook,you can actually find me at
Forty Million Beats.
F-O-R-T-Y.
It's spelled out.
Okay.
Dr. Jayne (31:09):
Forty Million Beats.
That's actually the name of mymenopause company.
Lyn Wineman (31:13):
I love it.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (31:14):
Clinical research terms.
So you can find me there.
But, Instagram is where I do alot.
And then other people tofollow, Dr.
Sharon Malone, who, you know,as I said, she and I got
together to actually firstconnect these dots.
And she really has been outthere leading it.
And her Instagram is smalone mdAnd then, you know, great
(31:34):
people like Mary Claire Haver.
If you see her on Instagram,Mary Claire Haver and a
urologist, Kelly Kesler.
And an orthopedic surgeon, Dr.
Vonda Wright.
Lyn Wineman (31:47):
Wow.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (31:47):
So people are because we are beginning to
connect the dots, that thesespecialties are important.
So you have an orthopedicsurgeon, you've got a urologist,
you have OBGYN.
Now you have a cardiologist whoentered the space to say, no,
this is all cardiovascular.
Lyn Wineman (32:04):
Wow.
Wow.
We are going to get all ofthose links in the show notes to
this episode, too.
So if you are listening and youwant to follow all of these
great experts.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (32:16):
And they're all different, right?
These are all different people.
Lyn Wineman (32:19):
Yeah.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (32:19):
So if you follow me, I'm talking about the
heart and women and your hearthealth.
Heart disease is a number onekiller of women.
And your risk of heart diseasedoubles during menopause.
That's what I talk about.
Lyn Wineman (32:32):
Okay.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
I can't wait.
I can't wait to follow all ofyou.
Once again, I'm seeing all ofthese bubbles that you
referenced at the beginningcoming together.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (32:43):
Coming together.
Lyn Wineman (32:44):
Yeah.
Dr.
Morgan—
Dr. Jayne Morgan (32:45):
In unassociated bubbles, but here
we are.
Lyn Wineman (32:48):
Here we are.
I love it.
I want to ask you one questionthat I've asked on every episode
of the Agency for Changepodcast.
And you are so inspiring.
You have so much to say.
I've asked all of my guests foran original quote to inspire
our listeners.
Can you give us a Dr.
Jayne Morgan original quote?
Dr. Jayne Morgan (33:10):
You know, I would say, and I don't know if
this is original, but I— Thereare two things that I often say.
Consistency beats intensityevery single time.
So be consistent with yourpreventive heart health
practices.
It is over time that you getthose results.
You don't just jump in one dayand it's like, you know what,
(33:33):
I'm going to be a triathletetoday.
Consistency in really all areasof your life beats intensity.
And then something else I say,I'm in the M pause, the M
Factor (33:44):
Before the Pause movie.
It's coming out tomorrow onPBS.
Really?
March 15th.
It's coming out tomorrow onPBS.
Lyn Wineman (33:53):
We're going to watch for that and get that link
in the show notes as well.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (33:57):
I am in the movie.
And here's what I say at theend.
So now I'll give you the lastcomment of the movie, is my
comment.
Okay.
There are seven days of theweek, and someday isn't one of
them.
So I want you to take care ofyour health today.
But what do women always say?
(34:17):
We'll do it someday.
No, no, no, no, no.
There are seven days of theweek, and someday is not one of
them.
Lyn Wineman (34:25):
I love that so much.
Dr.
Morgan, this has been such aninspiring and informational
conversation.
Yeah, I'm glad we got it going, we were–
I know.
Dr. Jayne Morga (34:36):
Struggling with our calendars.
Lyn Wineman (34:38):
You're a hard person to schedule, and I
completely understand why.
I feel so lucky to have thistime with you.
I want to say I believe theworld needs more people like
you, more doctors that are doingthis good work.
And I just so appreciate youtaking the time today.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (34:58):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate the invitation.
And people, please follow meand you can send me questions
right there.
You can DM me right there, andI'm happy to answer your
questions.
And oftentimes on Wednesdays,especially, not sure what I'll
be doing this week, but I postStairwell Chronicles.
So you will see me literallysitting on my stairs talking to
you, giving you a little snippetof information that you can
(35:21):
just file away and continue togrow.
Lyn Wineman (35:25):
That sounds fantastic.
We can all find one minute aweek to take care of
ourselves better.
Dr.
Morgan, thank you so much.
Dr. Jayne Morgan (35:34):
Thanks, bye.
Announcer (35:37):
We hope you enjoyed today's Agency for Change
podcast.
To hear all our interviews withthose who are making a positive
change in our communities, orto nominate a change maker you'd
love to hear from, visitKidGlov.com at K-I-D-G-L-O-V dot
com to get in touch.
As always, if you like whatyou've heard today, be sure to
rate, review, subscribe, andshare.
(35:58):
Thanks for listening, and we'llsee you next time.
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