March 25, 2026 • 34 mins
Words that ring like a bell: there are two patients in every Alzheimer’s diagnosis—the person you love and the caregiver they rely on.
In this episode of Agency for Change, former Wisconsin governor Marty Schreiber joins us to share the most personal campaign of his life: caring for his wife Elaine through nearly two decades of Alzheimer’s, and transforming grief and guilt into tools that protect dignity, spark joy, and keep caregivers alive.
Marty shares vivid stories, grounded advice for navigating guilt and asking for help, and resources for caregivers seeking support. His book, My Two Elaines, distills these lessons into a guide for learning, coping, and surviving with compassion.
Connect with Marty at
· Website – https://mytwoelaines.com
· Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/MyTwoElaines
· YouTube – www.youtube.com/@martinschreiber5316
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Episode Transcript
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Marty Schreiber (00:00):
If there's one thing worse than Alzheimer's,
it's ignorance of the disease.
Announcer (00:07):
Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov
that brings you the stories ofchange makers who are actively
working to improve ourcommunities.
In every episode, we'll meetwith people who are making a
lasting impact in the places wecall homes.
Lyn Wineman (00:31):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Agency for
Change podcast.
This is Lyn Wineman, presidentand chief strategist at Kid
Glov.
So after nearly 300 episodes ofthis podcast, there has not
been a guest that has brought meto tears until today.
I am talking with formerWisconsin governor Marty
(00:53):
Schreiber, but we're not talkingabout politics.
We're talking about hisexperience with his wife Elaine,
who had a diagnosis ofAlzheimer's and he became her
caregiver for nearly 20 years.
Now, data tells us that nearlyone in three of us are going to
(01:15):
be diagnosed with Alzheimer'safter the age of 55.
That also means one in three ofus at least are going to
somehow become caregivers.
So Marty has written a bookcalled My Two Elaines that
speaks to his experience andprovides valuable advice on how
(01:37):
to handle a situation with anAlzheimer's diagnosis to keep
yourself as a caregiver healthyand to ensure your loved one
leads their best life throughthis terrible disease.
Give it a listen.
There's lots of greatinformation and heartfelt
(01:58):
stories in this one.
Marty, welcome to the podcast.
Marty Schreiber (02:03):
Well, then thank you.
I'm pleased to be with you.
Thank you so much for theopportunity to chat.
Lyn Wineman (02:09):
Absolutely.
You know, I'm really excited tospeak with you.
I don't get to talk to a lot offormer governors.
We've had a lot of episodes ofthe Agency for Change podcast,
but I'm really interested inyour story.
And I'd love to start, Marty,by having you tell us about the
(02:29):
work that you're doing as anAlzheimer's caregiver and
advocate.
Marty Schreiber (02:35):
Well, I learned a while back that if there's
one thing worse thanAlzheimer's, it's ignorance of
the disease.
Lyn Wineman (02:41):
Ooh.
Marty Schreiber (02:42):
And ignorance of the disease by caregivers,
because I didn't understand thefirst thing about this.
Lyn Wineman (02:47):
Right.
Marty Schreiber (02:48):
But also, but also ignorance of the disease by
the medical profession whodoesn't understand that when
there is a diagnosis ofAlzheimer's, there are two
patients, the person diagnosedwith Alzheimer's and the
caregiver.
40% of all caregivers diebefore their loved one due to
(03:09):
stress-related illness.
And so I look at my almost20-year journey with my wife
Elaine's Alzheimer's.
And I wish that there werethings, there were things that I
would have known better.
I wish there were things Iwould have known sooner.
I wish there were things Ididn't do.
And so going through theanxiety and the depression and
(03:35):
the worry and the unanticipatedgrieving and anhedonia, which
I'll tell you about in a minute.
But but going through all ofthat, I thought if there is a
way for me to help someone onthat journey, I would like to do
that.
And so I wrote this book, MyTwo Elaine's and what I really
(03:58):
was attempting to do is if youwould tell me, for example, that
your loved one has Alzheimer'sand you're going to be the
caregiver, I would say, pleasesit down with me and just visit
a little bit.
Lyn Wineman (04:11):
Wow.
Marty Schreiber (04:12):
And I've gone on the same journey.
And now I know that you'regoing on this journey.
So if I can share with you justa few things that I have
learned maybe I can help makeyour journey easier for you as
well as for your loved one.
Lyn Wineman (04:27):
You know, Marty, I'd love to take that a step
further because of the peoplewho are listening to this
podcast, there are going to be ahigh percentage.
You maybe even know how many ofus will become caregivers or in
the loved one's radius ofsomebody who has this
(04:48):
Alzheimer's diagnosis.
What are the first things thatyou tell someone if if they were
to call you and say, Marty, myloved one just had a diagnosis?
What are the top things Ishould know?
What would you tell them?
Marty Schreiber (05:02):
Well, first of all, I would tell them that I'm
I'm so sorry.
Oh, yeah.
I would I would tell them thatto get a diagnosis of
Alzheimer's is so tragic, as weknow, because it can't be cured
or prevented.
Then I would say we cannot, youknow, we cannot give up hope.
(05:23):
And one thing that we can do,which is going to help sustain
us, and that is to understandthat even though we can't beat
Alzheimer's today, but what wecan do is help our loved ones
live their best life possible.
I love that.
And that then becomes arealizable goal.
That's something we can do,something that we can set as a
(05:49):
goal.
And then look to make surethat we live towards the moment.
And so I would say pleaseunderstand that you want to help
your loved one live their bestlife possible.
And then I would say one of themost important ways of doing
that is by joining their world.
(06:11):
And I would say that as longas I tried to keep Elaine in my
world, you know, it didn'thappen on a Thursday, it
happened on a Friday.
Elaine, it wasn't the Smiths,it was the Joneses.
Elaine, why are you asking methe same question?
What is so important then tounderstand the really necessity
(06:34):
to have these moments of joycome forward to the importance
of joining the world of theperson who now is.
Lyn Wineman (06:43):
Yeah, that is such good advice.
I love two things that you saidthere.
Join their world and livetowards the moment because I
could see where if you aretrying to stay in your own world
and pull them back into yourown world, it's not going not
(07:04):
going to work very well.
Marty Schreiber (07:06):
Well, and part and parcel with that is to
understand that we also have tolet go of this person who once
was, which is saying the samething about you know joining
their world.
But it's easy for me to say,you know, let go of this person
who once was.
That's easier to say than todo. But it is so important to
(07:30):
let go of that person because wecan't beat this Alzheimer's,
but we can help our loved onelive their best life possible.
Lyn Wineman (07:38):
Marty, such good advice already, and we're just a
couple of minutes into this.
I'd love for you to tell meabout the book.
You wrote a book, My TwoElaines.
And honestly, based on youryour description, I now
understand.
My two Elaines.
Tell us about the book.
Marty Schreiber (07:57):
Well, my two Elaines, the first Elaine, that
was a wonderful woman, girl,that I fell in love with when I
was a freshman in high school.
Lyn Wineman (08:05):
Oh my goodness.
Marty Schreiber (08:06):
And I knew right away she was the person
that I wanted for my wife,mother of my children, my life's
partner.
And so we dated and we wentsteady and we got engaged and we
got married, and four children,and 13 grandchildren, and now
12 great-grandchildren, and mygrand, my advisor.
(08:28):
But what was so important, whatshe did for me was if I would
run for political office, shewould be the hardest working
campaigner.
But what was so important, if Iwould lose, she would never let
me feel defeated.
And so you ask one of thethings that I will be doing as
it relates to being aAlzheimer's caregiver advocate.
(08:52):
One of the things I want tomake sure that we understand we
cannot allow ourselves to feeldefeated because we can, as I
said, know that there are thingsthat we can do in helping our
loved one live their best lifepossible.
So there's always hope.
So we have to understand that.
So that's the first Elaine, mywonderful life partner helping
(09:13):
me, letting me know I can neverallow myself to feel defeated.
Well, then when Elaine wasabout 63, 64 years of age, same
person, but now the secondElaine, began to get lost
driving to and from places shewas going to and from for the
last 10 years.
Lyn Wineman (09:30):
Yeah.
Marty Schreiber (09:31):
A great cook sometimes would mess up her
recipes so badly.
She comes up with stories thatI, and so that was then the
beginning of the second Elaine.
And she lived with the diseasefor almost 20 years, about half
that time with me, as I tried todo my best, sometimes
ignorantly, to take care ofher. And the other half of the
(09:54):
time in assisted living memorycare.
And she passed awayapproximately two and a half
years ago at a point where Icould not have asked her to
stay with me on this earth foranother second because of what
the Alzheimer's had done to herbody and to her mind.
And so I look back and and Ithink I'm so fortunate to have
(10:19):
had what what Ihad. So fortunate.
Lyn Wineman (10:23):
Marty, I feel like I ought to say, I'm so sorry for
your loss.
I'm so sorry for what you wentthrough.
But if there is a silver liningto this, it's that it happened
to someone like you that wasinspired to write a book and
inspired to help others.
And I'm really curious at whatpoint in the journey did you
(10:45):
say, I'm gonna write a book, I'mgonna speak out, I'm gonna help
others that are going throughthe same.
Marty Schreiber (10:52):
Well, it was after I went through drinking
absolutely too much.
It was after the point where myhealth was so
significantly affected withdoctors not knowing what was
really wrong with me, but inretrospect, it was really the
the emotional heartache, trauma,psychological impact of trying
(11:14):
to be an Alzheimer's caregiverwithout knowing about the
disease.
And so and also after I hadthis had to put Elaine into
assisted living memory care, andI didn't want to do that.
Lyn Wineman (11:30):
Right.
It's always a hard one, italways brings a lot of guilt to
people, but there comes a pointwhere you can't manage anymore.
Marty Schreiber (11:39):
Well, two things happen. And and so you
know, the question how whatfinally got me to write the
book?
This is one of the one of themoments.
So my children had anintervention.
They sat me down and they said,Dad, if you don't do something,
you're gonna be be dead beforemom.
I was drinking too much, I wasirrationally irritable, I wasn't
(12:01):
getting enough sleep, I wasn'teating right, I wasn't getting
any exercise, I wasn't visitingwith friends, and the guilt was
weighing down on me.
But anyway, again, getting backto the 40% number of
Alzheimer's caregivers that diebefore their loved ones due to
stress-related illness.
So, that intervention wasreally very powerful in my
(12:24):
deciding for Elaine to go intoassisted living memory care.
But then also very important Iwas going to counseling finally
with the Alzheimer'sAssociation.
And I meet with the counselorand she says, What is wrong?
And I said, I cannot seeputting Elaine into a nursing
home, the key words are beingputting.
(12:46):
And she looked at me and shesays, You're not putting Elaine
anyplace.
You are giving her anopportunity to be who she is
now.
Can Marty Schreiber's 24-7nursing home take care of her?
Well, the answer was no,impossible.
I was, as I said, irrationallyirritable, not enough sleep,
drinking, all of those things.
And then it hit me.
(13:07):
What was what I was involved inwas my own personal battle
against Alzheimer's.
Wrong.
I can't beat that disease.
Instead of understanding mygoal, which should be to help my
loved one live their best lifepossible.
And once that dawned on me, thenumber of moments of joy we
missed out on, the amount oftime that went by where I could
(13:28):
have done a better job of caringfor my wife, not knowing that I
was her lifeline and shedepended upon me, and I was
criticizing her and rebuking herfor everything she said that
was not correct and so forth.
And and so about that time,then, you know, after Elaine is
in assisted living memory carefor a while, I said, I've got to
(13:50):
do something because I don'twant other people to go through
what I have gone through if itcan be avoided.
And the the guilt, as you said,that associates this, you you
work so hard to try and helpyour loved one get through a
day, you do it.
So now you deserve Beef Eatermartini, maybe one, maybe two,
maybe three.
And so, but then you wake upthe next morning, and because
(14:13):
the disease is regressive, allof a sudden you've got another
challenge ahead of you.
So, what am I doing wrong?
And you devote more time to itand you focus more on it, and
less time with friends, lesstime for exercise, less time for
eating well, less time forsleeping, and you end up being a
basket case and hopefully maybenot one of the 40% that die
(14:33):
before their loved ones due tostress-related illness.
Lyn Wineman (14:35):
Wow.
Marty Schreiber (14:36):
But then also along this line, I realize that
so anyway, getting back to thebook for a moment.
So before I go to print thevery first time self-published
book, I find a series of notesand journals that Elaine had
been keeping since herdiagnosis.
I want you to know that we hadprayed together and we had cried
(14:58):
together many, many times.
But never until I read hernotes did I understand two
things.
Number one, the courage that ittakes to be diagnosed with this
illness and move forward.
The worry, you know, just sheshe wrote and expressed her
feelings.
The other is I never understoodhow much of a lifeline I was
(15:20):
for her, a lifeline.
And so what happened was I'mI'm her lifeline.
I'm seeing her, I'm losing hera little bit every day.
I'm her lifeline, but I don'tact like I'm her lifeline.
I don't take care of myself,and and I gnawed at that
lifeline by again not gettingenough sleep, and and then not
(15:43):
eating right and notsocializing.
So I gnawed at that lifeline,so it became useless.
And so it dawned on me.
I'm not being you know, verysensible.
And I realized also then thatnot only do I have to have
Elaine live her best lifepossible, but I had to
understand to help Elaine liveher best life possible, I had to
(16:07):
live my best life possible,meaning sure that I take care of
myself.
Because what good is a lifelineif you throw it to someone and
it breaks?
Lyn Wineman (16:16):
Wow.
Marty Schreiber (16:17):
It's of no use.
So anyway, the question was howdid I come about writing the
book?
I t came about because Ithought maybe I could help other
caregivers learn, cope, andsurvive.
And within that framework,then I'm now approaching a
thousand presentations that I'vegiven since roughly going back
(16:41):
to 2017.
And it's been a very specialkind of experience to be able to
meet with people and have themshare, you know, have them share
with me their experiences andhow what they wish they would
(17:02):
have known sooner, and you know,trying to assuage guilt. So
the goal is to try and helpcaregivers learn hope and and
survive.
I'm going to, there's a wordI've got that I wrote down and I
said I'd never forget, but Ihave to look at it.
Lyn Wineman (17:24):
Yeah.
Marty Schreiber (17:26):
One thing I found out anhedonia,
A-N-H-E-D-O-N-I- A. Anhedoniais a medical or a term that
means too much stress or feelingflat or numb, basically caused
(17:47):
by depression and anxiety.
Lyn Wineman (17:49):
Right.
Marty Schreiber (17:50):
I ran across anhedonia, the name, when I was
visiting with someone andtelling them that when I would
complete my presentation, peoplewould come up to me and say,
Oh, thank you.
I haven't laughed.
I haven't laughed in a year, Ihaven't laughed in the last six
months, I haven't.
(18:11):
And so what I found out is thatwith the understanding of that
term, you know, meaning lack ofability basically to feel
because of anxiety ordepression, that made me want to
try and be even more funny, ifthat's the proper word,
communicate and so forth, but totry and have people understand
(18:35):
realistic things like joiningthe world of the person who now
is, but also how important it isto laugh, how important it is
to have these kinds of momentsof joy where there is a smile
not only on the face of yourloved one, but also on our own
face as well.
That you become so intense as acaregiver, being worried about
(19:01):
so many things.
And to be able to take a breathand to laugh and to and to
smile is a is a relief and canhelp the whole days, weeks,
months, years journey.
Lyn Wineman (19:12):
Yeah.
Marty, I love everything thatyou're saying here.
And when this podcast releases,I'm gonna share it with
everyone I know who is in thissituation.
But it also occurs to me thethings that you are saying are
things that would be helpful inthe situation of being an
(19:33):
Alzheimer's caregiver, but alsohelpful in any difficult
situation in life.
I mean, what you've said isframe up the goal, you know,
like understand what you'retrying to do.
I so appreciate that becauseonce you my interpretation is
(19:54):
once you realized we're notgetting past this.
And so what is the next thing?
The next thing is how do I makeElaine's life as beautiful as
possible in the time we haveleft, right?
And know the audience, right?
Like live in their world, likeunderstand what's going on, and
(20:16):
then find your joy and hope andlaughter around the situation.
I think those are three thingsthat could help people through a
lot of different situations.
So you may be onto somethingthat's even bigger than
Alzheimer's here, right?
It could be.
(20:37):
There are two thoughts thatcome to mind, sort of.
One is rather than worryingabout the storm to pass to try
and learn how to dance in therain, and no matter what the
challenge is.
But then what my dad told me,as what he was told, he told me
by his dad, and that is thatwhen bad things happen, we can
(20:59):
yell and we can scream and wecan even revolt, or we can step
back, understand what is, andthen make a determination how
can we make the best of it.
Yeah, again, I go back to whatElaine, you know taught me, and
that is to never allow ourselvesto feel defeated, and so bad
(21:23):
things are gonna happen.
Yeah, it's going to just tearour heart apart.
It could be Alzheimer's, itcould be a death of a loved one,
it could be a you know,diagnosis of a disease.
So tragic, it tears our heartout.
But what what are our options?
Well, maybe to just simply tryand understand what is, we've
(21:45):
got to do that.
And then the question is howcan we make the best of it?
Yeah.
Marty Schreiber (21:50):
And easier so, easier said than done.
Lyn Wineman (21:53):
I really appreciate that.
You know, I read somewhere thatyou have described this part of
your life with Elaine as themost important campaign of your
life, which is fascinatingbecause you've been through a
lot of it as a career inpolitics, a lot of campaigns.
I mean, can you speak moreabout that?
Marty Schreiber (22:15):
Well, you know, you look back and campaigns,
you know, when you lose or whenyou win, it's a high, high when
you win and a low, low when whenyou lose.
And all of that pales.
Lyn Wineman (22:30):
Yeah.
Marty Schreiber (22:31):
All of that pales when you're faced with a
situation of the hopelessness ofa Alzheimer's diagnosis.
And again I want to get back tothe fact that things are going
to happen that we're not goingto like that are going to be
disastrous in our lives.
And somehow we've got to hangon to hope.
(22:53):
Somehow we've got to make surethat we look at what is and make
a determination of how to makethe best of it.
And so it's almost like there'stwo campaigns but that's almost
like two completely differenttopics because you if you lose
(23:17):
an election, okay, well life isgoing to go on.
Your loved one has Alzheimer'swell you know life is not going
to go on and so I don't knowmaybe losing elections helped
prepare you for this otherbusiness.
I don't know but I feelfortunate I feel so fortunate
but when I would be so Elainehelped me in everything that I
(23:38):
ever wanted to do when we weregoing to high school and I
wanted to I have a sailboat shewould go to the Army surplus
store and buy parachutessurplus and she would make a
sail or when I was running forpolitical office the first time
she would and all the time she'dgo door to door you know
pushing the baby buggy and soand so she did so many wonderful
(24:00):
things for me and so in a wayas I look at it maybe I was
blessed that I had two Elainesto love.
Maybe blessed that I had thesecond Elaine to sort of return
to her and give back to her whatshe gave to me over the course
of her life.
And she gave me well if we were16 when we met and 63 when she
(24:24):
started is showing signs and soforth maybe she gave me 40
years of good life and I wasable to help her with maybe 20
years of good life back.
I don't know.
Lyn Wineman (24:34):
Yeah I appreciate that though.
So Marty the book is called MyTwo Elaines Learning Coping and
Surviving As an Alzheimer'sCaregiver people who are
listening that would like to geta hold of the book where can
they find the book?
Marty Schreiber (24:49):
Well certainly by Amazon and certainly Barnes
and Noble I know has it but thenwe have a website
mytwoElaines.com all one wordand if anyone is interested in
the book they certainly couldorder it through the website
and also if anyone is interestedin a speaker I would be more
(25:10):
than willing to do whatever Icould to help to help people
better understand. One of thethings I when I say help people
better understand Elaine and Iwould have when Elaine was an
assisted lived in memory care Itried to be with her as much as
possible and so one day we'rehaving lunch in the cafeteria
(25:34):
and she looks at me and shestarts to cry.
I said Elaine why are youcrying well she looked at me she
says I am beginning to love youmore than my husband.
I didn't ask her what's wrongwith your turkey husband I
didn't do that but but here iswhat that meant to me okay
remember our goal is to help ourloved one live their best life
(25:56):
possible one of the ways ofdoing that joining their world
but also one of the ways of ofdoing that is by hearts
touching.
And so when when she looked atme and told me that I realized
that it is not necessary for herto know my name in order for
our hearts to touch.
That hearts can touch with asmile or holding hands or giving
(26:19):
a hug or singing a songtogether or just being together.
And so it's painful yes whenour loved one no longer
remembers our name but that'snot what is important.
What is important is the heartstouching and so sometimes
people say oh it doesn't pay forme to go see so and so because
they don't know who I am anyway.
They may not know your name butI know that hearts can touch.
(26:44):
The poet Maya Angelou said thatI may not remember what you said
, I may not remember what youdid, but I will always remember
how you made me feel and soagain that matter of hearts
touching helping our loved onelive their best life possible
all of that is so entwined towhen your loved one finally does
(27:06):
pass away to know that you tookone of the most challenging
experiences anyone could everhave to face and you made the
best of it and you did bringthose moments of joy and that
comfort to to your loved one.
Lyn Wineman (27:22):
Marty 280, over 280 episodes of this podcast, no
one no guest has ever made mecry but but we're getting close
here.
That was a very beautifulbeautiful story that you told
and since you brought up thatMaya Angelou quote, which I love
that quote, I want to ask youmy favorite question and that is
(27:46):
I would like a Marty Schreiberoriginal quote to share with our
listeners.
Marty Schreiber (27:53):
Well maybe it would be if there's one thing
worse than Alzheimer's it'signorance of the disease.
I'm not talking about how theamyloids work and so forth I'm
talking about the practicalunderstanding of how we can help
our loved one live their bestlife possible.
And I would also say that ifthere is an Alzheimer's
(28:15):
diagnosis rather than despairyes oh gosh you know I don't
want to say we can't despair butto understand that even though
we must and have feel of despairwe can always understand that
the goal of helping our lovedone live their best life
possible is a very realizabledoable goal and something that
(28:37):
can can we can look back withcomfort on knowing that we
helped our loved one through oneof their through their most
difficult journey.
Lyn Wineman (28:46):
So beautiful.
Marty I have really justenjoyed this conversation.
I know that it is going to helppeople it is going to change
their lives as we wrap up thisconversation today what is the
most important thing you wouldlike people to remember about
(29:06):
the work that you're doing?
Marty Schreiber (29:08):
I think it's to understand the importance of
joining the world of the personwho now is. I think I think
that would be be number one andthere from there can flow the
necessity of taking care ofourselves as a caregiver. We
(29:28):
caregivers are are sometimesvery unique and we don't like to
ask for help particularly menwhich we're too arrogant but one
thing that we men allcaregivers have to understand
and that is to ask for helpmeans you're not giving up to
ask for help is a matter ofcourage and I would caution
(29:50):
every caregiver that they haveif they don't take care of
themselves a possibility ofbeing part of that 40% of
caregivers who die before theirloved one due to stress related
illness.
And so we have to have helpand we can't be arrogant and
(30:11):
self-centered and selfish like Iagain I go back to when Elaine
went into assisted living memorycare.
You know I was not going toallow my wife to go into a
nursing home I was going to takecare of her well pat on the
back Marty Schreiber but alsohow about a shot in the head for
being stupid because it wasyour worry and your pride that
(30:33):
was stopping your wife fromliving her her best life
possible. And so one one thingand you can understand this I
share with people that inhelping our loved one live their
best life possible Elaine askedme once how are her parents.
(30:54):
Well I said they're both dead.
No they're not, she said, so wesort of got into it so finally
when she realized that herparents were dead that maybe she
didn't go to the funeral thatmaybe she didn't have a chance
to be with them towards the end,I promised myself I would never
put her her through that again.
(31:15):
And so the next time she askedme how are my parents I said
Elaine I said they're great.
I said your mom likes workingat church your dad likes this,
oh Elaine said that makes mefeel too good, I mean so good.
She said well I warned thepeople in the audience there are
two things you should knowabout therapeutic fibbing which
is what I call it.
Lyn Wineman (31:36):
Therapeutic fibbing, I love it.
Marty Schreiber (31:39):
So anyway so the next time she asked me you
know I said your parents arefine and that's therapeutic
fibbing and I said two thingsyou should know about
therapeutic fibbing.
Number one I tried it the firstyear of marriage the second
thing about therapeutic fibbingand I point out that not
everyone believes me on thisokay not everyone believes me on
this so I point that out so ifdo you remember the story about
(32:03):
Moses and the 10 commandmentsand Mount Sinai?
When I was there and I helpedhim okay and so Moses and I are
on top of Mount Sinai and I wantyou to know that if you want to
help Moses don't call him Mo.
He absolutely hates you got tocall him the poor Moses okay so
here we are then on top of thismountain and we got these great
(32:26):
big huge stone tablets s othey're really big.
So how do we get these down tothe bottom I says to Moses he
says well we're gonna pray andwork so we got pray and work we
got all the way down to thebottom now I look at this and
here on these huge tablets was Ilooked at and then markings
what well he said that's ArabicHebrew I said what is he's
(32:47):
that's the Ten Commandments Isaid oh my gosh I said what
about bearing false witnesswhich is the commandment against
lying is it there yeah he saysit's right in there I said oh my
gosh I said there goestherapeutic fibbing but then I
said what about that well hetook me around he he grabbed me
by the arm and he took me aroundto the back of these tablets of
(33:07):
stone and there he said look atthis Marty you call me Marty he
said Moses to Marty he sayslook at this he said and he had
written in American Englishwhere the words therapeutic
fibbing is good! Therapeuticfibbing is advisable.
Thou art into the world andtherapeutic fib.
It says right there.
(33:29):
I did not know that in all ofmy study, I never came across
that.
Well that's why I'm sharing it with you.
If I would have, you know, I'mnot gonna share a thing take
your time and share things withyou that you already know but
so people should know thattherapeutic fibbing is okay,
okay?
From Moses, just right fromMoses' mouth.
Lyn Wineman (33:52):
Marty Schreiber, I sure have enjoyed this
conversation.
I fully believe the world needsmore people like you, more
books like My Two Elaine's, andI just thank you for sharing so
openly with us today.
Marty Schreiber (34:08):
You're wonderful for what you do.
Thank you for helping peoplelive their best lives possible,
I know how dedicated and devotedand energized you are to do
this and so I admire that somuch and thank you.
Lyn Wineman (34:24):
Thank you Marty.
Announcer (34:26):
We hope you enjoyed today's Agency for Change
podcast.
To hear all our interviews withthose who are making a positive
change in our communities or tonominate a change maker you'd
love to hear fromvisit KidGlov.com at K I D G L O
V dot com to get in touch.
As always if you like whatyou've heard be sure to rate,
review, subscribe and share.
Thanks for listening andwe'll see you next time.
If there's one thing worse than Alzheimer's,
it's ignorance of the disease.
Announcer (00:07):
Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlov
that brings you the stories ofchange makers who are actively
working to improve ourcommunities.
In every episode, we'll meetwith people who are making a
lasting impact in the places wecall homes.
Lyn Wineman (00:31):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Agency for
Change podcast.
This is Lyn Wineman, presidentand chief strategist at Kid
Glov.
So after nearly 300 episodes ofthis podcast, there has not
been a guest that has brought meto tears until today.
I am talking with formerWisconsin governor Marty
(00:53):
Schreiber, but we're not talkingabout politics.
We're talking about hisexperience with his wife Elaine,
who had a diagnosis ofAlzheimer's and he became her
caregiver for nearly 20 years.
Now, data tells us that nearlyone in three of us are going to
(01:15):
be diagnosed with Alzheimer'safter the age of 55.
That also means one in three ofus at least are going to
somehow become caregivers.
So Marty has written a bookcalled My Two Elaines that
speaks to his experience andprovides valuable advice on how
(01:37):
to handle a situation with anAlzheimer's diagnosis to keep
yourself as a caregiver healthyand to ensure your loved one
leads their best life throughthis terrible disease.
Give it a listen.
There's lots of greatinformation and heartfelt
(01:58):
stories in this one.
Marty, welcome to the podcast.
Marty Schreiber (02:03):
Well, then thank you.
I'm pleased to be with you.
Thank you so much for theopportunity to chat.
Lyn Wineman (02:09):
Absolutely.
You know, I'm really excited tospeak with you.
I don't get to talk to a lot offormer governors.
We've had a lot of episodes ofthe Agency for Change podcast,
but I'm really interested inyour story.
And I'd love to start, Marty,by having you tell us about the
(02:29):
work that you're doing as anAlzheimer's caregiver and
advocate.
Marty Schreiber (02:35):
Well, I learned a while back that if there's
one thing worse thanAlzheimer's, it's ignorance of
the disease.
Lyn Wineman (02:41):
Ooh.
Marty Schreiber (02:42):
And ignorance of the disease by caregivers,
because I didn't understand thefirst thing about this.
Lyn Wineman (02:47):
Right.
Marty Schreiber (02:48):
But also, but also ignorance of the disease by
the medical profession whodoesn't understand that when
there is a diagnosis ofAlzheimer's, there are two
patients, the person diagnosedwith Alzheimer's and the
caregiver.
40% of all caregivers diebefore their loved one due to
(03:09):
stress-related illness.
And so I look at my almost20-year journey with my wife
Elaine's Alzheimer's.
And I wish that there werethings, there were things that I
would have known better.
I wish there were things Iwould have known sooner.
I wish there were things Ididn't do.
And so going through theanxiety and the depression and
(03:35):
the worry and the unanticipatedgrieving and anhedonia, which
I'll tell you about in a minute.
But but going through all ofthat, I thought if there is a
way for me to help someone onthat journey, I would like to do
that.
And so I wrote this book, MyTwo Elaine's and what I really
(03:58):
was attempting to do is if youwould tell me, for example, that
your loved one has Alzheimer'sand you're going to be the
caregiver, I would say, pleasesit down with me and just visit
a little bit.
Lyn Wineman (04:11):
Wow.
Marty Schreiber (04:12):
And I've gone on the same journey.
And now I know that you'regoing on this journey.
So if I can share with you justa few things that I have
learned maybe I can help makeyour journey easier for you as
well as for your loved one.
Lyn Wineman (04:27):
You know, Marty, I'd love to take that a step
further because of the peoplewho are listening to this
podcast, there are going to be ahigh percentage.
You maybe even know how many ofus will become caregivers or in
the loved one's radius ofsomebody who has this
(04:48):
Alzheimer's diagnosis.
What are the first things thatyou tell someone if if they were
to call you and say, Marty, myloved one just had a diagnosis?
What are the top things Ishould know?
What would you tell them?
Marty Schreiber (05:02):
Well, first of all, I would tell them that I'm
I'm so sorry.
Oh, yeah.
I would I would tell them thatto get a diagnosis of
Alzheimer's is so tragic, as weknow, because it can't be cured
or prevented.
Then I would say we cannot, youknow, we cannot give up hope.
(05:23):
And one thing that we can do,which is going to help sustain
us, and that is to understandthat even though we can't beat
Alzheimer's today, but what wecan do is help our loved ones
live their best life possible.
I love that.
And that then becomes arealizable goal.
That's something we can do,something that we can set as a
(05:49):
goal.
And then look to make surethat we live towards the moment.
And so I would say pleaseunderstand that you want to help
your loved one live their bestlife possible.
And then I would say one of themost important ways of doing
that is by joining their world.
(06:11):
And I would say that as longas I tried to keep Elaine in my
world, you know, it didn'thappen on a Thursday, it
happened on a Friday.
Elaine, it wasn't the Smiths,it was the Joneses.
Elaine, why are you asking methe same question?
What is so important then tounderstand the really necessity
(06:34):
to have these moments of joycome forward to the importance
of joining the world of theperson who now is.
Lyn Wineman (06:43):
Yeah, that is such good advice.
I love two things that you saidthere.
Join their world and livetowards the moment because I
could see where if you aretrying to stay in your own world
and pull them back into yourown world, it's not going not
(07:04):
going to work very well.
Marty Schreiber (07:06):
Well, and part and parcel with that is to
understand that we also have tolet go of this person who once
was, which is saying the samething about you know joining
their world.
But it's easy for me to say,you know, let go of this person
who once was.
That's easier to say than todo. But it is so important to
(07:30):
let go of that person because wecan't beat this Alzheimer's,
but we can help our loved onelive their best life possible.
Lyn Wineman (07:38):
Marty, such good advice already, and we're just a
couple of minutes into this.
I'd love for you to tell meabout the book.
You wrote a book, My TwoElaines.
And honestly, based on youryour description, I now
understand.
My two Elaines.
Tell us about the book.
Marty Schreiber (07:57):
Well, my two Elaines, the first Elaine, that
was a wonderful woman, girl,that I fell in love with when I
was a freshman in high school.
Lyn Wineman (08:05):
Oh my goodness.
Marty Schreiber (08:06):
And I knew right away she was the person
that I wanted for my wife,mother of my children, my life's
partner.
And so we dated and we wentsteady and we got engaged and we
got married, and four children,and 13 grandchildren, and now
12 great-grandchildren, and mygrand, my advisor.
(08:28):
But what was so important, whatshe did for me was if I would
run for political office, shewould be the hardest working
campaigner.
But what was so important, if Iwould lose, she would never let
me feel defeated.
And so you ask one of thethings that I will be doing as
it relates to being aAlzheimer's caregiver advocate.
(08:52):
One of the things I want tomake sure that we understand we
cannot allow ourselves to feeldefeated because we can, as I
said, know that there are thingsthat we can do in helping our
loved one live their best lifepossible.
So there's always hope.
So we have to understand that.
So that's the first Elaine, mywonderful life partner helping
(09:13):
me, letting me know I can neverallow myself to feel defeated.
Well, then when Elaine wasabout 63, 64 years of age, same
person, but now the secondElaine, began to get lost
driving to and from places shewas going to and from for the
last 10 years.
Lyn Wineman (09:30):
Yeah.
Marty Schreiber (09:31):
A great cook sometimes would mess up her
recipes so badly.
She comes up with stories thatI, and so that was then the
beginning of the second Elaine.
And she lived with the diseasefor almost 20 years, about half
that time with me, as I tried todo my best, sometimes
ignorantly, to take care ofher. And the other half of the
(09:54):
time in assisted living memorycare.
And she passed awayapproximately two and a half
years ago at a point where Icould not have asked her to
stay with me on this earth foranother second because of what
the Alzheimer's had done to herbody and to her mind.
And so I look back and and Ithink I'm so fortunate to have
(10:19):
had what what Ihad. So fortunate.
Lyn Wineman (10:23):
Marty, I feel like I ought to say, I'm so sorry for
your loss.
I'm so sorry for what you wentthrough.
But if there is a silver liningto this, it's that it happened
to someone like you that wasinspired to write a book and
inspired to help others.
And I'm really curious at whatpoint in the journey did you
(10:45):
say, I'm gonna write a book, I'mgonna speak out, I'm gonna help
others that are going throughthe same.
Marty Schreiber (10:52):
Well, it was after I went through drinking
absolutely too much.
It was after the point where myhealth was so
significantly affected withdoctors not knowing what was
really wrong with me, but inretrospect, it was really the
the emotional heartache, trauma,psychological impact of trying
(11:14):
to be an Alzheimer's caregiverwithout knowing about the
disease.
And so and also after I hadthis had to put Elaine into
assisted living memory care, andI didn't want to do that.
Lyn Wineman (11:30):
Right.
It's always a hard one, italways brings a lot of guilt to
people, but there comes a pointwhere you can't manage anymore.
Marty Schreiber (11:39):
Well, two things happen. And and so you
know, the question how whatfinally got me to write the
book?
This is one of the one of themoments.
So my children had anintervention.
They sat me down and they said,Dad, if you don't do something,
you're gonna be be dead beforemom.
I was drinking too much, I wasirrationally irritable, I wasn't
(12:01):
getting enough sleep, I wasn'teating right, I wasn't getting
any exercise, I wasn't visitingwith friends, and the guilt was
weighing down on me.
But anyway, again, getting backto the 40% number of
Alzheimer's caregivers that diebefore their loved ones due to
stress-related illness.
So, that intervention wasreally very powerful in my
(12:24):
deciding for Elaine to go intoassisted living memory care.
But then also very important Iwas going to counseling finally
with the Alzheimer'sAssociation.
And I meet with the counselorand she says, What is wrong?
And I said, I cannot seeputting Elaine into a nursing
home, the key words are beingputting.
(12:46):
And she looked at me and shesays, You're not putting Elaine
anyplace.
You are giving her anopportunity to be who she is
now.
Can Marty Schreiber's 24-7nursing home take care of her?
Well, the answer was no,impossible.
I was, as I said, irrationallyirritable, not enough sleep,
drinking, all of those things.
And then it hit me.
(13:07):
What was what I was involved inwas my own personal battle
against Alzheimer's.
Wrong.
I can't beat that disease.
Instead of understanding mygoal, which should be to help my
loved one live their best lifepossible.
And once that dawned on me, thenumber of moments of joy we
missed out on, the amount oftime that went by where I could
(13:28):
have done a better job of caringfor my wife, not knowing that I
was her lifeline and shedepended upon me, and I was
criticizing her and rebuking herfor everything she said that
was not correct and so forth.
And and so about that time,then, you know, after Elaine is
in assisted living memory carefor a while, I said, I've got to
(13:50):
do something because I don'twant other people to go through
what I have gone through if itcan be avoided.
And the the guilt, as you said,that associates this, you you
work so hard to try and helpyour loved one get through a
day, you do it.
So now you deserve Beef Eatermartini, maybe one, maybe two,
maybe three.
And so, but then you wake upthe next morning, and because
(14:13):
the disease is regressive, allof a sudden you've got another
challenge ahead of you.
So, what am I doing wrong?
And you devote more time to itand you focus more on it, and
less time with friends, lesstime for exercise, less time for
eating well, less time forsleeping, and you end up being a
basket case and hopefully maybenot one of the 40% that die
(14:33):
before their loved ones due tostress-related illness.
Lyn Wineman (14:35):
Wow.
Marty Schreiber (14:36):
But then also along this line, I realize that
so anyway, getting back to thebook for a moment.
So before I go to print thevery first time self-published
book, I find a series of notesand journals that Elaine had
been keeping since herdiagnosis.
I want you to know that we hadprayed together and we had cried
(14:58):
together many, many times.
But never until I read hernotes did I understand two
things.
Number one, the courage that ittakes to be diagnosed with this
illness and move forward.
The worry, you know, just sheshe wrote and expressed her
feelings.
The other is I never understoodhow much of a lifeline I was
(15:20):
for her, a lifeline.
And so what happened was I'mI'm her lifeline.
I'm seeing her, I'm losing hera little bit every day.
I'm her lifeline, but I don'tact like I'm her lifeline.
I don't take care of myself,and and I gnawed at that
lifeline by again not gettingenough sleep, and and then not
(15:43):
eating right and notsocializing.
So I gnawed at that lifeline,so it became useless.
And so it dawned on me.
I'm not being you know, verysensible.
And I realized also then thatnot only do I have to have
Elaine live her best lifepossible, but I had to
understand to help Elaine liveher best life possible, I had to
(16:07):
live my best life possible,meaning sure that I take care of
myself.
Because what good is a lifelineif you throw it to someone and
it breaks?
Lyn Wineman (16:16):
Wow.
Marty Schreiber (16:17):
It's of no use.
So anyway, the question was howdid I come about writing the
book?
I t came about because Ithought maybe I could help other
caregivers learn, cope, andsurvive.
And within that framework,then I'm now approaching a
thousand presentations that I'vegiven since roughly going back
(16:41):
to 2017.
And it's been a very specialkind of experience to be able to
meet with people and have themshare, you know, have them share
with me their experiences andhow what they wish they would
(17:02):
have known sooner, and you know,trying to assuage guilt. So
the goal is to try and helpcaregivers learn hope and and
survive.
I'm going to, there's a wordI've got that I wrote down and I
said I'd never forget, but Ihave to look at it.
Lyn Wineman (17:24):
Yeah.
Marty Schreiber (17:26):
One thing I found out anhedonia,
A-N-H-E-D-O-N-I- A. Anhedoniais a medical or a term that
means too much stress or feelingflat or numb, basically caused
(17:47):
by depression and anxiety.
Lyn Wineman (17:49):
Right.
Marty Schreiber (17:50):
I ran across anhedonia, the name, when I was
visiting with someone andtelling them that when I would
complete my presentation, peoplewould come up to me and say,
Oh, thank you.
I haven't laughed.
I haven't laughed in a year, Ihaven't laughed in the last six
months, I haven't.
(18:11):
And so what I found out is thatwith the understanding of that
term, you know, meaning lack ofability basically to feel
because of anxiety ordepression, that made me want to
try and be even more funny, ifthat's the proper word,
communicate and so forth, but totry and have people understand
(18:35):
realistic things like joiningthe world of the person who now
is, but also how important it isto laugh, how important it is
to have these kinds of momentsof joy where there is a smile
not only on the face of yourloved one, but also on our own
face as well.
That you become so intense as acaregiver, being worried about
(19:01):
so many things.
And to be able to take a breathand to laugh and to and to
smile is a is a relief and canhelp the whole days, weeks,
months, years journey.
Lyn Wineman (19:12):
Yeah.
Marty, I love everything thatyou're saying here.
And when this podcast releases,I'm gonna share it with
everyone I know who is in thissituation.
But it also occurs to me thethings that you are saying are
things that would be helpful inthe situation of being an
(19:33):
Alzheimer's caregiver, but alsohelpful in any difficult
situation in life.
I mean, what you've said isframe up the goal, you know,
like understand what you'retrying to do.
I so appreciate that becauseonce you my interpretation is
(19:54):
once you realized we're notgetting past this.
And so what is the next thing?
The next thing is how do I makeElaine's life as beautiful as
possible in the time we haveleft, right?
And know the audience, right?
Like live in their world, likeunderstand what's going on, and
(20:16):
then find your joy and hope andlaughter around the situation.
I think those are three thingsthat could help people through a
lot of different situations.
So you may be onto somethingthat's even bigger than
Alzheimer's here, right?
It could be.
(20:37):
There are two thoughts thatcome to mind, sort of.
One is rather than worryingabout the storm to pass to try
and learn how to dance in therain, and no matter what the
challenge is.
But then what my dad told me,as what he was told, he told me
by his dad, and that is thatwhen bad things happen, we can
(20:59):
yell and we can scream and wecan even revolt, or we can step
back, understand what is, andthen make a determination how
can we make the best of it.
Yeah, again, I go back to whatElaine, you know taught me, and
that is to never allow ourselvesto feel defeated, and so bad
(21:23):
things are gonna happen.
Yeah, it's going to just tearour heart apart.
It could be Alzheimer's, itcould be a death of a loved one,
it could be a you know,diagnosis of a disease.
So tragic, it tears our heartout.
But what what are our options?
Well, maybe to just simply tryand understand what is, we've
(21:45):
got to do that.
And then the question is howcan we make the best of it?
Yeah.
Marty Schreiber (21:50):
And easier so, easier said than done.
Lyn Wineman (21:53):
I really appreciate that.
You know, I read somewhere thatyou have described this part of
your life with Elaine as themost important campaign of your
life, which is fascinatingbecause you've been through a
lot of it as a career inpolitics, a lot of campaigns.
I mean, can you speak moreabout that?
Marty Schreiber (22:15):
Well, you know, you look back and campaigns,
you know, when you lose or whenyou win, it's a high, high when
you win and a low, low when whenyou lose.
And all of that pales.
Lyn Wineman (22:30):
Yeah.
Marty Schreiber (22:31):
All of that pales when you're faced with a
situation of the hopelessness ofa Alzheimer's diagnosis.
And again I want to get back tothe fact that things are going
to happen that we're not goingto like that are going to be
disastrous in our lives.
And somehow we've got to hangon to hope.
(22:53):
Somehow we've got to make surethat we look at what is and make
a determination of how to makethe best of it.
And so it's almost like there'stwo campaigns but that's almost
like two completely differenttopics because you if you lose
(23:17):
an election, okay, well life isgoing to go on.
Your loved one has Alzheimer'swell you know life is not going
to go on and so I don't knowmaybe losing elections helped
prepare you for this otherbusiness.
I don't know but I feelfortunate I feel so fortunate
but when I would be so Elainehelped me in everything that I
(23:38):
ever wanted to do when we weregoing to high school and I
wanted to I have a sailboat shewould go to the Army surplus
store and buy parachutessurplus and she would make a
sail or when I was running forpolitical office the first time
she would and all the time she'dgo door to door you know
pushing the baby buggy and soand so she did so many wonderful
(24:00):
things for me and so in a wayas I look at it maybe I was
blessed that I had two Elainesto love.
Maybe blessed that I had thesecond Elaine to sort of return
to her and give back to her whatshe gave to me over the course
of her life.
And she gave me well if we were16 when we met and 63 when she
(24:24):
started is showing signs and soforth maybe she gave me 40
years of good life and I wasable to help her with maybe 20
years of good life back.
I don't know.
Lyn Wineman (24:34):
Yeah I appreciate that though.
So Marty the book is called MyTwo Elaines Learning Coping and
Surviving As an Alzheimer'sCaregiver people who are
listening that would like to geta hold of the book where can
they find the book?
Marty Schreiber (24:49):
Well certainly by Amazon and certainly Barnes
and Noble I know has it but thenwe have a website
mytwoElaines.com all one wordand if anyone is interested in
the book they certainly couldorder it through the website
and also if anyone is interestedin a speaker I would be more
(25:10):
than willing to do whatever Icould to help to help people
better understand. One of thethings I when I say help people
better understand Elaine and Iwould have when Elaine was an
assisted lived in memory care Itried to be with her as much as
possible and so one day we'rehaving lunch in the cafeteria
(25:34):
and she looks at me and shestarts to cry.
I said Elaine why are youcrying well she looked at me she
says I am beginning to love youmore than my husband.
I didn't ask her what's wrongwith your turkey husband I
didn't do that but but here iswhat that meant to me okay
remember our goal is to help ourloved one live their best life
(25:56):
possible one of the ways ofdoing that joining their world
but also one of the ways of ofdoing that is by hearts
touching.
And so when when she looked atme and told me that I realized
that it is not necessary for herto know my name in order for
our hearts to touch.
That hearts can touch with asmile or holding hands or giving
(26:19):
a hug or singing a songtogether or just being together.
And so it's painful yes whenour loved one no longer
remembers our name but that'snot what is important.
What is important is the heartstouching and so sometimes
people say oh it doesn't pay forme to go see so and so because
they don't know who I am anyway.
They may not know your name butI know that hearts can touch.
(26:44):
The poet Maya Angelou said thatI may not remember what you said
, I may not remember what youdid, but I will always remember
how you made me feel and soagain that matter of hearts
touching helping our loved onelive their best life possible
all of that is so entwined towhen your loved one finally does
(27:06):
pass away to know that you tookone of the most challenging
experiences anyone could everhave to face and you made the
best of it and you did bringthose moments of joy and that
comfort to to your loved one.
Lyn Wineman (27:22):
Marty 280, over 280 episodes of this podcast, no
one no guest has ever made mecry but but we're getting close
here.
That was a very beautifulbeautiful story that you told
and since you brought up thatMaya Angelou quote, which I love
that quote, I want to ask youmy favorite question and that is
(27:46):
I would like a Marty Schreiberoriginal quote to share with our
listeners.
Marty Schreiber (27:53):
Well maybe it would be if there's one thing
worse than Alzheimer's it'signorance of the disease.
I'm not talking about how theamyloids work and so forth I'm
talking about the practicalunderstanding of how we can help
our loved one live their bestlife possible.
And I would also say that ifthere is an Alzheimer's
(28:15):
diagnosis rather than despairyes oh gosh you know I don't
want to say we can't despair butto understand that even though
we must and have feel of despairwe can always understand that
the goal of helping our lovedone live their best life
possible is a very realizabledoable goal and something that
(28:37):
can can we can look back withcomfort on knowing that we
helped our loved one through oneof their through their most
difficult journey.
Lyn Wineman (28:46):
So beautiful.
Marty I have really justenjoyed this conversation.
I know that it is going to helppeople it is going to change
their lives as we wrap up thisconversation today what is the
most important thing you wouldlike people to remember about
(29:06):
the work that you're doing?
Marty Schreiber (29:08):
I think it's to understand the importance of
joining the world of the personwho now is. I think I think
that would be be number one andthere from there can flow the
necessity of taking care ofourselves as a caregiver. We
(29:28):
caregivers are are sometimesvery unique and we don't like to
ask for help particularly menwhich we're too arrogant but one
thing that we men allcaregivers have to understand
and that is to ask for helpmeans you're not giving up to
ask for help is a matter ofcourage and I would caution
(29:50):
every caregiver that they haveif they don't take care of
themselves a possibility ofbeing part of that 40% of
caregivers who die before theirloved one due to stress related
illness.
And so we have to have helpand we can't be arrogant and
(30:11):
self-centered and selfish like Iagain I go back to when Elaine
went into assisted living memorycare.
You know I was not going toallow my wife to go into a
nursing home I was going to takecare of her well pat on the
back Marty Schreiber but alsohow about a shot in the head for
being stupid because it wasyour worry and your pride that
(30:33):
was stopping your wife fromliving her her best life
possible. And so one one thingand you can understand this I
share with people that inhelping our loved one live their
best life possible Elaine askedme once how are her parents.
(30:54):
Well I said they're both dead.
No they're not, she said, so wesort of got into it so finally
when she realized that herparents were dead that maybe she
didn't go to the funeral thatmaybe she didn't have a chance
to be with them towards the end,I promised myself I would never
put her her through that again.
(31:15):
And so the next time she askedme how are my parents I said
Elaine I said they're great.
I said your mom likes workingat church your dad likes this,
oh Elaine said that makes mefeel too good, I mean so good.
She said well I warned thepeople in the audience there are
two things you should knowabout therapeutic fibbing which
is what I call it.
Lyn Wineman (31:36):
Therapeutic fibbing, I love it.
Marty Schreiber (31:39):
So anyway so the next time she asked me you
know I said your parents arefine and that's therapeutic
fibbing and I said two thingsyou should know about
therapeutic fibbing.
Number one I tried it the firstyear of marriage the second
thing about therapeutic fibbingand I point out that not
everyone believes me on thisokay not everyone believes me on
this so I point that out so ifdo you remember the story about
(32:03):
Moses and the 10 commandmentsand Mount Sinai?
When I was there and I helpedhim okay and so Moses and I are
on top of Mount Sinai and I wantyou to know that if you want to
help Moses don't call him Mo.
He absolutely hates you got tocall him the poor Moses okay so
here we are then on top of thismountain and we got these great
(32:26):
big huge stone tablets s othey're really big.
So how do we get these down tothe bottom I says to Moses he
says well we're gonna pray andwork so we got pray and work we
got all the way down to thebottom now I look at this and
here on these huge tablets was Ilooked at and then markings
what well he said that's ArabicHebrew I said what is he's
(32:47):
that's the Ten Commandments Isaid oh my gosh I said what
about bearing false witnesswhich is the commandment against
lying is it there yeah he saysit's right in there I said oh my
gosh I said there goestherapeutic fibbing but then I
said what about that well hetook me around he he grabbed me
by the arm and he took me aroundto the back of these tablets of
(33:07):
stone and there he said look atthis Marty you call me Marty he
said Moses to Marty he sayslook at this he said and he had
written in American Englishwhere the words therapeutic
fibbing is good! Therapeuticfibbing is advisable.
Thou art into the world andtherapeutic fib.
It says right there.
(33:29):
I did not know that in all ofmy study, I never came across
that.
Well that's why I'm sharing it with you.
If I would have, you know, I'mnot gonna share a thing take
your time and share things withyou that you already know but
so people should know thattherapeutic fibbing is okay,
okay?
From Moses, just right fromMoses' mouth.
Lyn Wineman (33:52):
Marty Schreiber, I sure have enjoyed this
conversation.
I fully believe the world needsmore people like you, more
books like My Two Elaine's, andI just thank you for sharing so
openly with us today.
Marty Schreiber (34:08):
You're wonderful for what you do.
Thank you for helping peoplelive their best lives possible,
I know how dedicated and devotedand energized you are to do
this and so I admire that somuch and thank you.
Lyn Wineman (34:24):
Thank you Marty.
Announcer (34:26):
We hope you enjoyed today's Agency for Change
podcast.
To hear all our interviews withthose who are making a positive
change in our communities or tonominate a change maker you'd
love to hear fromvisit KidGlov.com at K I D G L O
V dot com to get in touch.
As always if you like whatyou've heard be sure to rate,
review, subscribe and share.
Thanks for listening andwe'll see you next time.
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