March 18, 2026 • 33 mins
Addressing homelessness requires more than temporary solutions — it requires hope, accountability, and community collaboration.
In this episode of Agency for Change, Rich Schaus, Executive Director of Gospel Rescue Mission, shares how his organization helps individuals experiencing homelessness rebuild their lives through relationship, responsibility, and practical support.
Rich explains how their programs focus on restoring hope, developing job skills, and helping people move toward meaningful goals and long-term stability.
Connect with Rich and Gospel Rescue Mission at:
· Website – http://grmok.org/
· Get your FREE gift: https://grmok.org/freegift/
· Facebook – https://www.facebook.com/grmok1931
· Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/grmok1931/
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Episode Transcript
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Rich Schaus (00:00):
Discipline is more powerful than motivation.
Announcer (00:06):
Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlove
that brings you the stories ofchange makers who are actively
working to improve ourcommunity.
In every episode, we'll meetwith people who are making a
lasting impact in the places wecall homes.
Lyn Wineman (00:29):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Agency for
Change podcast.
This is Lynn Weinman, presidentand chief strategist at Kid
Glove.
So today I am talking withsomeone who is using the power
of hope, relationship, andcommunity collaboration to
alleviate the problem of povertyand homelessness.
(00:50):
My guest is Rich Schaus.
He is the executive director ofGospel Rescue Mission.
And I can't wait for you tohear about his innovative and
compassionate work.
Rich, welcome to the podcast.
Rich Schaus (01:05):
I'm really excited to chat with you and get this
conversation out there and maybehelp some communities move
forward and actually do somegreat work and helping those who
are homeless quit beinghomeless.
Lyn Wineman (01:14):
I love your energy, Rich.
And you know, I talk to a lotof nonprofit leaders.
And the one thing we all wantis for the problem that we are
trying to eliminate to beeliminated.
So I can't wait to hear yourideas and what you've what
you've got going.
Let's start by having you tellus more about your organization,
(01:35):
Gospel Rescue Mission.
Rich Schaus (01:37):
So Gospel Rescue Mission Oklahoma, we exist to
help individuals and ourcommunity to flourish with God
leading the way.
So we are a faith-basedorganization and we just look to
God for wisdom.
We read the scriptures and tryto get ideas and thoughts from
that.
But our goal is to help theseindividuals accomplish great
things.
They weren't designed to liveon the streets.
They have so much more insideof them, they have some great
(01:58):
value, and I want to help themdo that.
But I also want to support ourcommunity.
If if our my my homeless folks,and I get they become my folks,
I didn't use that term.
Uh people in the communitysaid, Well, your folks did this
or did that.
Uh, but our community needsthem to be our folks need to do
the right things, right?
Right.
And so when they're trespassingor they're uh shoplifting or
(02:19):
doing those things, that hurtsour community.
And so I really coach ourfolks, you know, don't trespass
on somebody's property.
Uh, if they do happen to dothat, we will actually take them
over to meet with thathomeowner and say, I am sorry
that I did that.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Wow.
Rich Schaus (02:33):
I apologize for that.
And if they're not willing todo that, then we may not be
serving them because we reallywant to support our community.
Uh, same thing withshoplifting.
Uh, if they shoplift, the storesend me a picture and I say,
Yeah, that's that's my friendJoe or Jacob or whoever.
Uh, I will take them over thereand they will repay.
Uh, we we always require themto do double whatever they
stole.
So man Jacob, who stole a bagof potato chips for you know 75
(02:57):
cents or whatever it was, smallbag.
Uh, he had to take a dollarfifty, give it to that store
owner, and the store ownerdidn't know what to do with
that.
Lyn Wineman (03:05):
Right.
I'm sure they didn't.
Like, I don't know how to putthis in the register, I don't
know how to figure this out.
Yeah, but also, I mean, thinkabout for a dollar fifty, think
about what a meaningful impactthat was.
I mean, I hate to say it, butthat's better than any
advertising you could buy, Rich,to have that interaction with
(03:27):
that store owner.
Rich Schaus (03:28):
Yeah, we had a and I learned this.
Uh, we had a young man who washere and he had been in and out
of prison.
By the time I met him, Iactually picked him up at jail.
And if I can tell yourlisteners, just one piece of
advice if you're going to gopick up somebody from jail, make
sure you know who they are.
unknown (03:40):
Okay.
Rich Schaus (03:41):
I was picking him up because his mother said, Can
you pick up my son?
unknown (03:44):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (03:44):
I said, Sure.
And I at the time I didn'tthink until I'm sitting in the
parking lot saying, I don't knowwhat he looks like.
Wow.
So I showed up, picked up somerandom guy off the streets, and
I bring him to my place.
Well, we have a class calledForging Past the Felony.
And in this class, I Iencourage uh them to make things
right wherever you have made amistake, whether that's an
apology to family or friends oror neighbors or whatever it
(04:07):
needs to be.
But sometimes if you've stolensomething, you need to repay it.
Just kind of I was just talkingabout with our local store
owners.
And as he's sitting there, hehad this realization I stole
about $500 worth of materialfrom Walmart, you know,
shampoos, soaps, you know,whatever small little things,
but added up to about $500.
And at this point, he's got asolid job.
I said, Well, let's get you$500 worth of cash and let's go
(04:31):
over to Walmart and meet withthat Walmart manager, and we're
gonna give him that money back.
And he was he was nervous, andthis is a jail-hardened man with
all the jail-hardened muscles,every stereotype of a prison
guy.
This is him, right?
And we walk in, and this littleI mean, he's probably 22, 23
years old, uh, not all not verymuscular, probably more
intellectual than physical.
(04:52):
Yeah, and and my friend is liketrembling.
Oh, Rich.
He's just a little guy.
What do you he goes?
This guy's gonna put me back inprison.
Lyn Wineman (05:01):
Oh, and he doesn't want to go there.
I get that.
Rich Schaus (05:04):
But when he made it right, the manager had his
first of all, I had to help himpull his joint chin up to
because Walmart never has thathappen.
Yeah, and the manager said, Youknow, if more people did this,
uh we would be able to hire morefelons and help more people
along the road.
It became a statement to him,but for this man, it changed his
whole heart.
He's like, you know what?
(05:25):
I was treated with respect.
I I did the right thing, Ididn't go to jail, which
probably helped out the wholesituation, right?
And today that young man uh hasa he works 40 plus hours uh
working as an electrician inArizona, amazing, and he could
do more if he wanted to.
He just says, Oh, 40 is goodenough for me.
I already own my home, he's gotit paid off.
Lyn Wineman (05:43):
Good for him.
Rich Schaus (05:44):
Enjoy this life.
But it all started with makingit right.
Lyn Wineman (05:48):
I love it.
So, Rich, you're providingcurriculum, you're helping
people.
Tell me more about Gospel RestRescue Mission.
Like, what are the programslike?
What does it look like?
Uh, tell me more.
Rich Schaus (06:00):
Okay, so we get to know the men women when they
come in.
They they check in, we check inevery single day, Monday
through Friday, 12:30.
Anybody in in the area whoneeds a place to stay, needs a
roof over their head, needsmeals, they can show up and
we're gonna provide that forthem.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Wow.
Rich Schaus (06:14):
We're also gonna provide guidance counseling for
them.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (06:17):
And over the first three weeks, they just get kind
of a taste.
This is how this is supposed towork.
Uh, they can learn classes,it's they can try out uh the we
have a work training program,they can try that out.
Nice.
Uh, they if they do have afelony, we encourage them to try
our felony class, uh, help themmove forward with that.
Uh try out the meals.
(06:37):
Yeah.
We we serve meals to 75 peopleuh every single meal.
And so uh some meals peoplesay, Well, that was terrible.
And the same same meal,somebody said that was the best
meal I ever had.
Of course.
So that's the way that goes.
And then uh, can you sleep in abarracks with 15 other men or
15 other women?
That not everybody can pullthat off, right?
Right.
So they try it all out forthree weeks, and they're also
(07:01):
building relationships with thestaff and with the other guests,
and so at the after threeweeks, they will meet with a
panel of three guests and twostaff.
And I want to highlight thatjust three guests and two staff,
and they're gonna vote onwhether they continue their
stay.
Lyn Wineman (07:14):
Oh wow.
So the guests have a big partin this, and because they see
them day to day, they see themall the time.
Rich Schaus (07:23):
They can fool me.
Uh I'm kind of gullible in alot of ways.
They they trick me all thetime, but they're not gonna fool
these men and women from thestreets, they're they're more
observant than most, yeah,probably because they've had to
to survive, right?
But they also see them when I'mnot looking.
Well, you know, when you're notlooking, they're actually
dealing drugs.
When you're not looking,they're uh bullying other
(07:44):
people, yeah.
Or you know what, you don't seethem doing this, but they're
secretly doing good stuff aroundthe shelter, they're cleaning
things up or making a bed orwhatever.
They're doing they're helping,like, oh okay, good, and that
helps us get good, better data.
And five people are gonna bewiser than any one of us, yeah.
So they will they will have aconversation, it's not just uh
uh vote just randomly, it's aconversation.
(08:06):
They have some interviewquestions, uh practicing for a
future job interview, andthey'll say, Okay, this is who I
am, this is what I want, what'smy hope for the future?
And then that panel will vote.
Yeah, it could be three guestsoutvoting both staff, and it
that has happened from time totime.
Most of the time, though, it'sall five one way or another.
Everybody's kind of seeing thesame sort of things.
(08:26):
And then after that, they'llhave a foundations uh curriculum
that we developed, you know,basic conflict resolution, you
know, basic uh study habits, uhbasic, you know, how work should
be feel how you should feelabout work, uh, and some other
little small thing, just to kindof get them a base under their
feet.
And then after two weeks, wemeet with them and we say, Okay,
(08:47):
what is your dreams?
And we do a full assessmentphysically, mentally,
spiritually, socially.
Uh what are your barriers?
Uh, who are you?
What are your hopes and dreams?
I really love the hopes anddreams.
Oh, I love that.
Lyn Wineman (08:59):
Hopes and dreams.
That just almost seems so far.
Like, but once you can opensomeone's mind to think about
hopes and dreams, that's a gamechanger.
Rich Schaus (09:08):
It's huge, but we can't do this.
I've learned this when we firststarted doing it.
I would ask them that the daythey checked in.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (09:13):
Well, they're just coming off the streets, they
they can't even imagine hope.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (09:17):
So we've given them five to six weeks to kind of
figure out you know what, I dowant something better, I can
have something better.
And so when I asked thatquestion, they actually have an
answer.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (09:27):
And it's a realistic answer most of the
time.
Uh, and so then we'll set up apersonal program to help them
move toward that hopes anddreams.
So, our work training programwill somehow uh, like for
example, we had a young man whowanted to be a celebrity chef.
I didn't even know there wassuch things, so he shared that
with me.
Lyn Wineman (09:43):
That's a big dream to be a celebrity chef, but it
really gave me some uh I lookedinto it.
Rich Schaus (09:48):
I had a research that was a real job.
Lyn Wineman (09:51):
Yeah, right.
Not very many people can getthe job of celebrity chef
because first you have to be acelebrity and a chef.
Rich Schaus (09:58):
Yeah.
And so uh he so he became ourfood service workshop job
training program.
So he's working in the kitchen,learning all those job skills
to learn the basics of how youdo the kitchen, moving toward
being a chef.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I love it.
Rich Schaus (10:11):
And then eventually, and then as things
were going along, he would showdifferent behaviors saying, you
know what, that probably won'twork for you to become a
celebrity chef or to keep a jobor or his other dream was to be
reunited with his family.
Lyn Wineman (10:23):
Oh, well, that's a good one too.
Rich Schaus (10:25):
And so we would say, How does that behavior
gonna get you back with yourfamily?
How's that behavior gettingthere?
So instead of a really apunishment, saying your
behaviors are now keeping youfrom your dream.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (10:35):
And it's not just random, it's we know you, we
want to have a relationship withyou, and we want you to fulfill
your dreams.
Lyn Wineman (10:41):
I really like it.
I like it.
Rich, tell me this.
So obviously, you are doing alot of work with homelessness
and poverty.
Why is this work so importantright now in 2026?
Rich Schaus (10:53):
Oh, I mean, from late 60s, we started this war on
poverty.
Yeah.
And we have put billions with aB into this.
Uh, some experts are sayingeven trillions of dollars into
this.
Lyn Wineman (11:05):
And it doesn't feel like it's getting a lot better,
does it?
Rich Schaus (11:07):
Uh, it's getting worse.
Yeah.
In a lot of ways, it's becauseuh we don't actually expect
anything out of these men andwomen.
We don't see the value in them.
Say, oh, they're just poorlittle boobaloos who are living
on the street.
Uh, we need to pamper them andget them into a home and get
them going forward.
And so we've kind of wasted allthis money.
And the longer they're outthere, the more ingrained they
(11:27):
get into street life.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (11:29):
And I get really nervous when they've they're
when they've been out there forthree to six months.
I start to see a change intheir thinking and their
dynamics.
Uh, and I I got it takes a longtime to shake that out of them.
Right.
And so now is the time to pullthis off because the problem is
getting so big.
I don't know how long we canwait.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm a person who wants to takeaction now.
Lyn Wineman (11:50):
I feel that about you.
And actually, that leads me tomy next question for you, Rich.
Like, how did you come to thisline of work?
Like, what shaped your callingto be in this space?
Rich Schaus (12:03):
Well, many years ago now, uh, I was in the army.
Uh, it was uh early 2001, anduh I was having a time of
prayer, and I wrote out adescription uh of a shelter.
I said that that I didn't evenknow these sort of things
existed.
I had volunteered at onebefore, uh, but I wanted
something more, something thatcould really enhance the value
and encourage people for men,for women, uh help restore
(12:26):
relationships, uh, get them backout into community and just be
an everyday person.
And I wrote this uh just as aduring a time of devotion and
prayer.
Well, as I'm getting ready toget out of the army, I decided
uh I'm just going to just try toI need to find a job because
there wasn't a job inhomelessness.
Right, right.
I don't know, I didn't have noidea.
And I in a way I had also kindof forgotten about that vision,
(12:48):
that dream that I had writtenand all.
And I kind of just put it in myjournal and said, uh, that'll
be someday.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah.
unknown (12:55):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (12:55):
And I applied, I got out of the army.
I I was a college graduate, Ihad was an army officer, and I
could not get a job.
It's 2001, it was shortlyafter.
I mean, I got out.
I was actually at my outprocessing during the whole 9-11
attacks.
And three months later, I'm outand trying to find a job, and
(13:15):
and everybody rejected me.
And I my heart broke when I gotturned down to be a mall
security guard.
Wow, yeah.
See, I am a defending thenation, but I can't defend them
all.
Can't defend them all.
But anyway, so I startedapplying for a job.
One of those jobs that I hadapplied for turns out to be a
homeless shelter.
And I at the time I didn'trealize it was a women's
(13:37):
shelter.
Because I probably would nothave put my name in it.
I just assumed no man is evergoing to be hired to work at a
women's shelter.
Right, probably not.
Uh, but it turns out that theyhad had a conversation as they
were looking to hire thisposition, saying, you know, it
would be really great if we canfind a healthy male to hang out
with these ladies because mostof these ladies have been hurt
by a male.
(13:57):
So the easiest way to get tohealing is for them to have a
healthy relationship with a maleto move them forward.
And so when they interviewedme, they they interviewed me for
three months.
Lyn Wineman (14:07):
That's a long time.
Rich Schaus (14:09):
It was over the course of three months, and I
thought, man, I I got to get ajob because I got to get these
right.
I got two kids, I gotta getthem fed, I gotta get them
diapered, clothed, and you know,they're growing.
What am I gonna do?
But eventually they hire me,and it was really gonna be my
short-term gig.
I really had dreams of being apastor or or some other leader.
Uh, I didn't really think thatI could handle this working with
(14:30):
these ladies.
Uh, my first night working withthe ladies, I was an overnight
manager.
Wow, I was terrified.
I was thinking, I've gone intosemi-conflict res uh situations,
and I was less scared thanbeing with this group of ladies
because they can destroy myreputation in a heartbeat.
Oh, right.
I'm thinking of my owntemptations, my own flesh
(14:52):
getting in the way, and Ithought, I am doomed.
But the truth is, I did reallyfall in love with these ladies.
Wow, they're incredible.
Some of them, many of them, arestill my friends in social
media.
That was in Washington, I'm inOklahoma now, so yeah, distance
separates us.
But uh, I I love uh their thepossibilities and potential
inside of them.
I love the things that arereally important to them.
(15:14):
Uh, I remember one lady, uhPamela Joe, her her nickname was
uh PJ because she loved peanutbutter and jelly, and also went
with her name, obviously.
But she threw the biggesttantrum over we ran out of
peanut butter one day.
It's like, well, we still gotjelly.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, right.
Rich Schaus (15:31):
Uh, but just the fun and the excitement, the
stories they would share, uh,the the things they would try to
get better.
Yeah.
One lady, she did she said, youknow, I could walk into a room
with a with 99 healthy, good forme men, and one guy who's gonna
treat me like dirt, and I'mgonna be the one who's gonna
treat me like dirt.
I will grab onto him.
And I she goes, so her plan wasI am not going to date for the
(15:54):
next uh, I can't remember, it'slike six months out, and I'm
going to study healthyrelationships and how to
identify healthy relationships.
Wow.
And so she took some onlineclasses that were kind of new at
the time.
Uh, she took some uh went to alocal college and took a
psychology class, trying tofigure out why in the world
she's doing this, had her owncounselor.
Uh, she invested in that.
So six months later, shestarted dating and said, Nope,
(16:16):
not for me.
And she figured out date one,he's not gonna work.
Date two, for somebody else.
Nope, not gonna work.
Eventually found a good guy,but she did the training before
she went back out in the pool.
Lyn Wineman (16:26):
Yeah, you know, Rich, because this is a podcast
and people are listening whilethey're driving and walking and
doing dishes and all the thingspeople do when they listen to
podcasts, they're not gonna getto see you.
I see your face light up whenyou talk about potential and
possibilities.
And when we started talking,one of the things you said is
people who are experiencinghomelessness are not helpless.
(16:50):
Like, talk to me more aboutthat because I do think that is
a common misperception that youwouldn't be, and I might get
myself in trouble, but I'm justgonna be really authentic.
People, I think, think you mustbe helpless or you wouldn't be
in this situation.
Tell me how wrong I am.
Rich Schaus (17:09):
Oh, uh you're your your wording is so close.
With their own, they're feelinghopeless.
Ah, and people who feelhopeless don't want to try, they
don't want to take a chance.
They have they have tried, theyhave tried a hundred different
things, a hundred differentrelationships, and all of them
have failed, and they take itinside.
It was all me.
And in some cases, there was apiece that is them, and in most
(17:31):
cases, it's gonna be an elementof them, but they have these
incredible skills and abilitiesuh to actually make our society
better, uh, but nobody's givingthem the chance.
So the first thing I have to dois I have to help reinstill
that hope inside of them.
Uh, I don't know if you or yourlisteners have heard the rat uh
experiment that they did.
Uh if there's any rat fanslistening, maybe they might not
(17:53):
want to tell me.
Tell me more.
Lyn Wineman (17:54):
I'm not sure if I've heard this one or not.
Tell me more, Rich.
Rich Schaus (17:57):
So they did this experiment where uh they took a
rat and they put him in in waterand had him swim as long as you
can swim.
And it turns out the averagerat can swim about 15 minutes,
okay, which is pretty good for amammal.
Yeah.
Without stopping, 15 minutes.
And I mean, it's literally swamto death.
I mean, that's kind of cool.
Maybe it's like a rat fan,you'd be upset right now.
Right, right, right.
(18:17):
But round two, they put the ratin, and about 14 and a half
minutes, they pulled the rat outand they said, Real rat, you
are a good little swimmer.
I'm so proud of you.
You're really good.
And I don't think they speakEnglish, but they talk nice to
them.
30 seconds to a minute, theyput them back in the water, and
they kept going.
And then, so they the the thingis that it wasn't just another
15 minutes, it was four days.
(18:40):
Four days of swimming fromthat, you know, two minutes, so
a minute and a half of hopegiven to them.
And the same thing happens withthese men and women.
If they are given that hope,these are men and women who one
time wanted to be doctors andlawyers, and yeah, they want to
be business people, and uh, theyhave creative ideas, they want
to be marketers.
Uh, one guy wants to be a DJ.
(19:00):
I talked about the uh celebritychef.
Uh, some of them just want tobe a garbage man.
Wow.
They're like, well, that'sgreat.
We need that.
We do.
Uh, we need plumbers andelectricians, and we need all
those skills.
You know, I grew up in an erawhere you're a college prepper,
you were nothing.
Right.
And I think we're paying aprice for that right now.
That's a whole differentconversation.
Lyn Wineman (19:20):
Uh there's a lot of good jobs out there.
Oh, there are high-paying jobsfor people that take alternate
paths.
And there's a lot of peoplewith expensive college degrees
that aren't making enough to paytheir student loans, right?
So there's both sides of thatequation.
Rich Schaus (19:35):
Yeah, the guy who's who's fixed my dishwasher when
it broke, he is actually anaccounting major and he's doing
this to pay off his accountinguh college fees.
Lyn Wineman (19:43):
I love it.
I love it.
So, Rich, we've got a lot ofsmart listeners, people who want
to make a difference in theworld.
What would you like to letcommunity leaders know that they
should do differently or maybemore effectively to address this
problem?
Rich Schaus (19:58):
Well, first of all, it's a team effort.
It's going to take a lot ofdifferent ideas.
You need to have the businesspeople at the table.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (20:05):
They're the ones with the money.
Uh, I think we also need torecognize uh, so you have those,
you have uh business owners,you have to have some church
leaders.
Uh and that not just, I meanI'm Christian, so I'm my brain
automatically goes there, butyou know, you can have the
Muslim and the Jewish leaders,whatever kind of faith-based
groups you have, they aredesigned for charity and care
and compassion and virtue,right?
(20:26):
All those sort of things.
Uh, you need to bring in schoolleaders because this is
impacting the children of thehome.
Lyn Wineman (20:31):
Absolutely.
Rich Schaus (20:32):
And then obviously the social workers are going to
be there because that's what wedo.
We want to be part of thatconversation.
But what tends to happen is thebusiness leaders say, Oh, you
social worker, you know whatyou're talking about.
And sometimes we do.
The conversation needs to behow does this impact our
community and our society?
So, leaders of the of thewhether city or county, they
(20:52):
need to bring them all togetherand say, How can we work
together to really not justmanage the situation, yeah, but
to help them grow and prosperand flourish.
This is one of my favoritewords that we use here is
flourish.
Lyn Wineman (21:04):
Flourish.
I love it.
It's a different word, whichmeans people take a moment to
think about it, right?
When you hear a word that youhaven't don't use every day.
Rich Schaus (21:14):
And I think of that with uh when my daughter was
three, when she's all grown up,she's getting ready to have uh
by the time this airs, I'll havefive granddaughters.
She's getting ready to havecongratulations.
Uh thank you.
Uh, but when she was three, wewere teaching her how to plant
things.
And so she would get beans andyou know, different kinds of
flowers.
She was all excited about this.
(21:35):
Well, one day I took her to thestore and we walk past and she
her eyes get real big and shegets all excited and she sees
bird seed.
And we've taught her that appleseeds grow apples and flower
seeds grow flowers.
And so, I'm gonna grow somesome birds, dad.
And I'm at that point, I'm anew dad, and I love my princess.
(21:58):
And I'm I'm gonna buy her thebird seed, we're gonna Grow some
birds.
Oh my goodness.
Because I can't break herheart.
Well, we take that bird seedhome and we you know put it in
the dirt, and there's a wholelot that goes with that, but I'm
expecting nothing to happen.
I'm going to put down a stuffedbird or something four or five
days later.
That's my plan.
Right.
However, something sprouts.
And I thought, I know it's notgoing to be a bird, but what is
(22:20):
happening here?
And we wait, waited and watchedand let it grow.
And that ended up being asunflower.
Really?
And that sunflower blossomedand grew, and eventually we had
to take it out of the pot and wehad to put it into a garden.
Wow.
And then at the end of thatseason, we took the seeds and we
planted it in the garden nextyear.
(22:42):
I love it.
It became that was flourishing.
You can either have growth oryou can have flourishing.
Lyn Wineman (22:49):
And you know what happens when you grow a
sunflower plant?
I've tried before, and it's notthat easy because birds and
deer all come and try and eatthe seeds, right?
So I do.
Rich Schaus (23:00):
That worked out because we're in the city and it
we had some protections there,but yeah.
Lyn Wineman (23:04):
Very nice, very nice.
So we talked about like whatwould you tell community leaders
and and talked about bringinglots of people together.
What if I'm just one person,just one person, I'd like to
make a difference.
What advice do you have forthat one person who wants to
make a difference in the world?
Rich Schaus (23:22):
So when you see that person, yeah, look at them
in the face.
Yeah.
We tend to look away.
Uh one day I took a bunch ofpeople, uh, our folks out, and
we had them all in dress suits,interview clothes.
Yeah.
And they were gonna stand outof the corner, same corners they
have been panhandling out, butnow we're gonna hand out
resumes.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (23:39):
And I'm out there with them, I'm dressed up just
like them.
I'm not handing out resumes,just in case my board's
listening.
I wasn't handing out resumes.
You're not looking for a newjob.
Not looking for a new job, butthey were.
But what was interesting is I'mstanding out there, they're the
people who pull up, they wouldlook away, they wouldn't look at
them.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (23:56):
And I thought, how does that gotta feel after 30,
60, 90 minutes of this?
Because I'm feeling like dirt.
I have a home, I have a job,and I'm feeling beat up after
just a little while out here tolook at them.
And then if you do feelcompelled to give them
something, I highly recommendgetting two sandwiches and
sitting down and talking tothem.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (24:18):
Hearing their story, get to know them.
Obviously, I want you to besafe too, so don't do this in an
unsafe way.
But uh, but if you can and itis safe and it's daylight, sit
down and hear their story.
You're gonna learn some newthings and interesting things.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (24:32):
I remember we're sitting at a at a restaurant, my
wife and I was one of ouranniversary meals, and my wife
gets used to this, it'sunfortunate for her.
But I'm looking out the windowand I see someone panhandling
out in the corner, and I'mthinking, okay, I'm on a date.
Yeah, I'm not going to look.
I'm not going to do it.
I'm not going out there.
I'm not going to go out there.
I don't know this particularperson, which that's kind of a
draw when I don't know who theyare.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Right.
Rich Schaus (24:54):
I can resist a little bit when I know who they
are because I know I can have aconversation later, but I don't
know this guy.
Well, I decide I'm going to goover there and talk to him.
I said, Is it all right?
And she's okay with it.
I go out and talk to him.
And I find out he was actuallyfrom another community.
He was being bust in by someorganization that was trying to
get money.
They were using him.
Lyn Wineman (25:11):
I was like, that's not right.
That is not right.
That is why people areskeptical, right?
That is why people areskeptical.
Yeah, yeah.
Wow, Rich, that's crazy.
All right.
So the advice is look people inthe eye, talk to them, hear
their story, pay them withrespect.
I have to admit, I am guilty ofthat because I feel bad.
(25:32):
I don't know what to do.
I don't, I feel bad anduncomfortable.
So I look away.
unknown (25:37):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (25:37):
Well, that's the other thing, too.
People say, Well, what do Iwant to talk about?
You ask them what you know,what's your story?
Yeah.
That's all the question youhave to ask.
And they will take it fromthere.
Yeah.
And I also got to warn you, youmay not get the truth.
You know, that's why we kind ofgive them five weeks, and then
they can trust me enough to tellme the truth.
Lyn Wineman (25:55):
Good point for me to ask, Rich.
What's on the horizon forgospel rescue mission?
Rich Schaus (26:00):
Well, right now I'm putting together a committee
within our community, within ourcounty.
I I in Oklahoma, I tend tothink county-wise.
We have 75 or 77 differentcounties.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (26:11):
And I've done a study and figured out how many
homeless are in each county.
Wow.
Lyn Wineman (26:15):
Because that is a hard thing to do.
Those kinds of counts are noteasy to do.
Or maybe I misunderstand it.
Maybe you've got an easy way todo it, but there is no real
easy way to do it.
Rich Schaus (26:25):
And I'm pretty sure that my numbers are still
wrong.
Lyn Wineman (26:27):
But they're probably a good representation,
right?
Rich Schaus (26:30):
It gives me a good picture, a good idea of how many
are in each county.
And what we did is we actuallycalled county commissioners and
sheriffs in each county and gotthose numbers.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Well, that's probably a really good way to do it.
Rich Schaus (26:41):
They do a one-day count every year.
Yep.
However, that is they don'talways get everybody.
And somehow just when I do itover one day, they're going to
miss a lot of people.
So the numbers are not veryaccurate.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (26:54):
But that's what's used by most government
officials.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (26:56):
So we've done this research, we've called each of
these counties.
We have a pretty good number.
And we're going to, and this isjust our one county, we're
going to try to figure out howwould we serve our 85 homeless
folks?
And I know our numbers areactually higher than that.
Our real numbers are closer to120.
Okay.
But our one-day count's goingto be 85.
So I'm going to say, well,putting together this committee
working through a process thatwe've developed, uh, how do we
(27:19):
help those 85 and we want to getto know them by name?
Um, how do we get to know theirstory?
How do we get to help move themforward so they're not going to
be homeless three months, sixmonths, a year from now?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Right.
Rich Schaus (27:30):
So we're putting together a strategic plan.
Uh, in November, we're electinga new governor in Oklahoma.
And I want to have a plantogether so that way somehow in
that first three to six monthsof whoever wins.
Well, we don't even have, wehave a couple candidates, but we
don't have all of them.
Lyn Wineman (27:45):
Yeah, but you have a plan.
I can tell.
I love it.
Rich Schaus (27:48):
And I'm gonna I'm gonna our group is going to
present a plan to that newgovernor and have that for their
whole time in office working onthis plan and offering our
services.
Uh, because our goal is that wewould do this in such a way
that doesn't cost the stateextra money, right?
We're already spending acertain amount.
Lyn Wineman (28:04):
We don't spend I think most states would be very
grateful for that because thereare very few states at this
moment in time that have asurplus.
And if Oklahoma does, they'reone of the very, very few.
Rich Schaus (28:17):
Uh they say they have a surplus sometimes,
depending on who's in office.
Lyn Wineman (28:21):
Yeah, that's right.
Depending on who's in officeand how close the election is.
So, Rich, you have a greatstory.
You're doing really innovativethings.
I love, I love hearing aboutyour work.
For our listeners who wouldlike to learn more, maybe send
you a donation, maybe just tapinto some of your knowledge.
Where can they find moreinformation about Gospel Rescue
(28:43):
Mission?
Rich Schaus (28:43):
Well, first they can go to grmok.org.
Grmok.org.
That will give you a generalpicture.
You'll see some opportunitiesto donate.
You also hear some stories,some part of who what we're
doing and who we are.
Also, contact information ifyou want to contact us directly,
our social media, all thosethings.
All of our social media are onFacebook and Twitter and or X,
sorry, uh, all those differentsocial media is grmok 1931.
(29:06):
We've been around since 1931.
So you can find all those.
But also for your listenerstoday, I want to offer a special
gift.
Uh, it's uh a guide for how todo this either for helping an
individual or for yourcommunity.
Wow.
Lyn Wineman (29:19):
How do they tap into that, Rich?
Rich Schaus (29:22):
So go to grmok.org backslash free gift.
Okay.
And then they'll give you anoption.
Do you want the individual oneor do you want the community
one?
Cool.
Lyn Wineman (29:33):
I'm gonna be the first person to sign up.
It would be beautiful.
All right.
We will, for our listeners, wewill have both of those links,
the um grmok.org and the linkfor the free gift on our website
with the show notes.
So if you didn't catch that, orif you're walking or driving,
uh, we will have that out therefor you so you can can catch
(29:56):
that link.
All right, I love it.
Everything you've you've saidhere is just so inspiring.
But I want to ask you myfavorite question next.
And Rich, that is I would likea Rich Schaus original quote to
inspire our listeners.
Rich Schaus (30:13):
Oh, I'm gonna caveat this with saying a lot of
people think motivation is whatthey need to get moving forward
with life.
Yeah.
When I feel like it, I'm gonnado it.
I'm gonna be a hard charger,gonna change the world.
But one of the things I'vetaught taught my children, and
that I've I have to remindmyself, is motivation isn't
gonna get you there.
Discipline is gonna get youthere.
So, discipline is more powerfulthan motivation.
(30:33):
That would be my my quote ofthe day.
Really funny story is that myson was going through some
challenges and uh he was feelinga lack of motivation.
So, I of course I shared thatwith him again.
You remember it's not aboutmotivation, it's about
discipline.
You just get up and you do yourjob and you do the right things
and you eat right and exerciseand do these basic things.
Uh, and I didn't think he wasreally listening because he kind
(30:54):
of said, Oh, yeah, dad, I'veheard that.
He kind of blew me off.
Yeah.
Well, my wife was talking aboutnot being motivated one day,
and my son goes, You know, mom,motivation only gets you so far.
Discipline is more powerfulthan motivation.
Lyn Wineman (31:05):
I was like, Yes, I love it.
Rich Schaus (31:07):
The boy was listening.
Lyn Wineman (31:09):
You know, parent parenting is a difficult task,
and when you get those wins likethat, it just propels you
forward.
Uh you could swim for four daysafter that, I bet, right?
I bet.
I love it.
Rich, such a greatconversation.
As we wrap up our timetogether, I'd love to hear from
your perspective what is themost important thing you would
(31:31):
like our listeners to rememberabout the work that you're
doing.
Rich Schaus (31:35):
Well, I have a different categories.
I've been thinking about this alittle bit.
So if you are someone who's asocial worker or someone who's
working with the homeless, don'tgive up.
There are days where you'regonna feel like quitting.
Uh, I've been to more funeralsfor drug overdoses in my career
than I can count.
It is heartbreaking anddevastating.
Uh, you you have to rejoice inthem being in jail because you
(31:55):
know where they're at andthey're safe or okay at least.
So if you're a social worker orsomebody working with the
homeless, don't give up.
If you're a community leader, Iwould love to help you out.
You cannot do this on your own.
You have an expertise ongoverning your community, but
you cannot be everywhere doingeverything.
So find someone like myself orsomeone else who can be an
(32:16):
expert for you to help you doit.
Very nice.
And then if you're anindividual, don't just do a
handout.
That is so demeaning and ithurts them in the long run.
They will take that stuffbecause they they feel like they
need it.
But really, what they need isrelationship.
In America, we are not uhmaterial uh poor in any way,
(32:37):
shape, or form.
Even those who are homeless arenot materially poor, they are
relationship poor.
Yeah, so give themrelationship, get to know them,
hear their story, reconnect withthem.
You can do it over a meal, youcan do it in a shelter, you can
do it all sorts of places, butbuild a relationship first and
foremost.
Lyn Wineman (32:54):
Wow, great advice.
Rich, I really enjoyed thisconversation.
I fully believe the world needsmore people like you, more
organizations like Gospel RescueMission.
Thank you so much for takingtime to talk with us today.
Announcer (33:09):
Thank you for having me today.
We hope you enjoyed today'sAgency for Change podcast.
To hear all our interviews withthose who are making a positive
change in our communities, orto nominate a change maker you'd
love to hear from, visitkidglove.com at kidg-lo-v.com to
get in touch.
As always, if you like whatyou've heard today, be sure to
(33:31):
rate, review, subscribe, andshare.
Thanks for listening, and we'llsee you next time.
Discipline is more powerful than motivation.
Announcer (00:06):
Welcome to Agency for Change, a podcast from KidGlove
that brings you the stories ofchange makers who are actively
working to improve ourcommunity.
In every episode, we'll meetwith people who are making a
lasting impact in the places wecall homes.
Lyn Wineman (00:29):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the Agency for
Change podcast.
This is Lynn Weinman, presidentand chief strategist at Kid
Glove.
So today I am talking withsomeone who is using the power
of hope, relationship, andcommunity collaboration to
alleviate the problem of povertyand homelessness.
(00:50):
My guest is Rich Schaus.
He is the executive director ofGospel Rescue Mission.
And I can't wait for you tohear about his innovative and
compassionate work.
Rich, welcome to the podcast.
Rich Schaus (01:05):
I'm really excited to chat with you and get this
conversation out there and maybehelp some communities move
forward and actually do somegreat work and helping those who
are homeless quit beinghomeless.
Lyn Wineman (01:14):
I love your energy, Rich.
And you know, I talk to a lotof nonprofit leaders.
And the one thing we all wantis for the problem that we are
trying to eliminate to beeliminated.
So I can't wait to hear yourideas and what you've what
you've got going.
Let's start by having you tellus more about your organization,
(01:35):
Gospel Rescue Mission.
Rich Schaus (01:37):
So Gospel Rescue Mission Oklahoma, we exist to
help individuals and ourcommunity to flourish with God
leading the way.
So we are a faith-basedorganization and we just look to
God for wisdom.
We read the scriptures and tryto get ideas and thoughts from
that.
But our goal is to help theseindividuals accomplish great
things.
They weren't designed to liveon the streets.
They have so much more insideof them, they have some great
(01:58):
value, and I want to help themdo that.
But I also want to support ourcommunity.
If if our my my homeless folks,and I get they become my folks,
I didn't use that term.
Uh people in the communitysaid, Well, your folks did this
or did that.
Uh, but our community needsthem to be our folks need to do
the right things, right?
Right.
And so when they're trespassingor they're uh shoplifting or
(02:19):
doing those things, that hurtsour community.
And so I really coach ourfolks, you know, don't trespass
on somebody's property.
Uh, if they do happen to dothat, we will actually take them
over to meet with thathomeowner and say, I am sorry
that I did that.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Wow.
Rich Schaus (02:33):
I apologize for that.
And if they're not willing todo that, then we may not be
serving them because we reallywant to support our community.
Uh, same thing withshoplifting.
Uh, if they shoplift, the storesend me a picture and I say,
Yeah, that's that's my friendJoe or Jacob or whoever.
Uh, I will take them over thereand they will repay.
Uh, we we always require themto do double whatever they
stole.
So man Jacob, who stole a bagof potato chips for you know 75
(02:57):
cents or whatever it was, smallbag.
Uh, he had to take a dollarfifty, give it to that store
owner, and the store ownerdidn't know what to do with
that.
Lyn Wineman (03:05):
Right.
I'm sure they didn't.
Like, I don't know how to putthis in the register, I don't
know how to figure this out.
Yeah, but also, I mean, thinkabout for a dollar fifty, think
about what a meaningful impactthat was.
I mean, I hate to say it, butthat's better than any
advertising you could buy, Rich,to have that interaction with
(03:27):
that store owner.
Rich Schaus (03:28):
Yeah, we had a and I learned this.
Uh, we had a young man who washere and he had been in and out
of prison.
By the time I met him, Iactually picked him up at jail.
And if I can tell yourlisteners, just one piece of
advice if you're going to gopick up somebody from jail, make
sure you know who they are.
unknown (03:40):
Okay.
Rich Schaus (03:41):
I was picking him up because his mother said, Can
you pick up my son?
unknown (03:44):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (03:44):
I said, Sure.
And I at the time I didn'tthink until I'm sitting in the
parking lot saying, I don't knowwhat he looks like.
Wow.
So I showed up, picked up somerandom guy off the streets, and
I bring him to my place.
Well, we have a class calledForging Past the Felony.
And in this class, I Iencourage uh them to make things
right wherever you have made amistake, whether that's an
apology to family or friends oror neighbors or whatever it
(04:07):
needs to be.
But sometimes if you've stolensomething, you need to repay it.
Just kind of I was just talkingabout with our local store
owners.
And as he's sitting there, hehad this realization I stole
about $500 worth of materialfrom Walmart, you know,
shampoos, soaps, you know,whatever small little things,
but added up to about $500.
And at this point, he's got asolid job.
I said, Well, let's get you$500 worth of cash and let's go
(04:31):
over to Walmart and meet withthat Walmart manager, and we're
gonna give him that money back.
And he was he was nervous, andthis is a jail-hardened man with
all the jail-hardened muscles,every stereotype of a prison
guy.
This is him, right?
And we walk in, and this littleI mean, he's probably 22, 23
years old, uh, not all not verymuscular, probably more
intellectual than physical.
(04:52):
Yeah, and and my friend is liketrembling.
Oh, Rich.
He's just a little guy.
What do you he goes?
This guy's gonna put me back inprison.
Lyn Wineman (05:01):
Oh, and he doesn't want to go there.
I get that.
Rich Schaus (05:04):
But when he made it right, the manager had his
first of all, I had to help himpull his joint chin up to
because Walmart never has thathappen.
Yeah, and the manager said, Youknow, if more people did this,
uh we would be able to hire morefelons and help more people
along the road.
It became a statement to him,but for this man, it changed his
whole heart.
He's like, you know what?
(05:25):
I was treated with respect.
I I did the right thing, Ididn't go to jail, which
probably helped out the wholesituation, right?
And today that young man uh hasa he works 40 plus hours uh
working as an electrician inArizona, amazing, and he could
do more if he wanted to.
He just says, Oh, 40 is goodenough for me.
I already own my home, he's gotit paid off.
Lyn Wineman (05:43):
Good for him.
Rich Schaus (05:44):
Enjoy this life.
But it all started with makingit right.
Lyn Wineman (05:48):
I love it.
So, Rich, you're providingcurriculum, you're helping
people.
Tell me more about Gospel RestRescue Mission.
Like, what are the programslike?
What does it look like?
Uh, tell me more.
Rich Schaus (06:00):
Okay, so we get to know the men women when they
come in.
They they check in, we check inevery single day, Monday
through Friday, 12:30.
Anybody in in the area whoneeds a place to stay, needs a
roof over their head, needsmeals, they can show up and
we're gonna provide that forthem.
Speaker 1 (06:13):
Wow.
Rich Schaus (06:14):
We're also gonna provide guidance counseling for
them.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (06:17):
And over the first three weeks, they just get kind
of a taste.
This is how this is supposed towork.
Uh, they can learn classes,it's they can try out uh the we
have a work training program,they can try that out.
Nice.
Uh, they if they do have afelony, we encourage them to try
our felony class, uh, help themmove forward with that.
Uh try out the meals.
(06:37):
Yeah.
We we serve meals to 75 peopleuh every single meal.
And so uh some meals peoplesay, Well, that was terrible.
And the same same meal,somebody said that was the best
meal I ever had.
Of course.
So that's the way that goes.
And then uh, can you sleep in abarracks with 15 other men or
15 other women?
That not everybody can pullthat off, right?
Right.
So they try it all out forthree weeks, and they're also
(07:01):
building relationships with thestaff and with the other guests,
and so at the after threeweeks, they will meet with a
panel of three guests and twostaff.
And I want to highlight thatjust three guests and two staff,
and they're gonna vote onwhether they continue their
stay.
Lyn Wineman (07:14):
Oh wow.
So the guests have a big partin this, and because they see
them day to day, they see themall the time.
Rich Schaus (07:23):
They can fool me.
Uh I'm kind of gullible in alot of ways.
They they trick me all thetime, but they're not gonna fool
these men and women from thestreets, they're they're more
observant than most, yeah,probably because they've had to
to survive, right?
But they also see them when I'mnot looking.
Well, you know, when you're notlooking, they're actually
dealing drugs.
When you're not looking,they're uh bullying other
(07:44):
people, yeah.
Or you know what, you don't seethem doing this, but they're
secretly doing good stuff aroundthe shelter, they're cleaning
things up or making a bed orwhatever.
They're doing they're helping,like, oh okay, good, and that
helps us get good, better data.
And five people are gonna bewiser than any one of us, yeah.
So they will they will have aconversation, it's not just uh
uh vote just randomly, it's aconversation.
(08:06):
They have some interviewquestions, uh practicing for a
future job interview, andthey'll say, Okay, this is who I
am, this is what I want, what'smy hope for the future?
And then that panel will vote.
Yeah, it could be three guestsoutvoting both staff, and it
that has happened from time totime.
Most of the time, though, it'sall five one way or another.
Everybody's kind of seeing thesame sort of things.
(08:26):
And then after that, they'llhave a foundations uh curriculum
that we developed, you know,basic conflict resolution, you
know, basic uh study habits, uhbasic, you know, how work should
be feel how you should feelabout work, uh, and some other
little small thing, just to kindof get them a base under their
feet.
And then after two weeks, wemeet with them and we say, Okay,
(08:47):
what is your dreams?
And we do a full assessmentphysically, mentally,
spiritually, socially.
Uh what are your barriers?
Uh, who are you?
What are your hopes and dreams?
I really love the hopes anddreams.
Oh, I love that.
Lyn Wineman (08:59):
Hopes and dreams.
That just almost seems so far.
Like, but once you can opensomeone's mind to think about
hopes and dreams, that's a gamechanger.
Rich Schaus (09:08):
It's huge, but we can't do this.
I've learned this when we firststarted doing it.
I would ask them that the daythey checked in.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (09:13):
Well, they're just coming off the streets, they
they can't even imagine hope.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (09:17):
So we've given them five to six weeks to kind of
figure out you know what, I dowant something better, I can
have something better.
And so when I asked thatquestion, they actually have an
answer.
Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (09:27):
And it's a realistic answer most of the
time.
Uh, and so then we'll set up apersonal program to help them
move toward that hopes anddreams.
So, our work training programwill somehow uh, like for
example, we had a young man whowanted to be a celebrity chef.
I didn't even know there wassuch things, so he shared that
with me.
Lyn Wineman (09:43):
That's a big dream to be a celebrity chef, but it
really gave me some uh I lookedinto it.
Rich Schaus (09:48):
I had a research that was a real job.
Lyn Wineman (09:51):
Yeah, right.
Not very many people can getthe job of celebrity chef
because first you have to be acelebrity and a chef.
Rich Schaus (09:58):
Yeah.
And so uh he so he became ourfood service workshop job
training program.
So he's working in the kitchen,learning all those job skills
to learn the basics of how youdo the kitchen, moving toward
being a chef.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
I love it.
Rich Schaus (10:11):
And then eventually, and then as things
were going along, he would showdifferent behaviors saying, you
know what, that probably won'twork for you to become a
celebrity chef or to keep a jobor or his other dream was to be
reunited with his family.
Lyn Wineman (10:23):
Oh, well, that's a good one too.
Rich Schaus (10:25):
And so we would say, How does that behavior
gonna get you back with yourfamily?
How's that behavior gettingthere?
So instead of a really apunishment, saying your
behaviors are now keeping youfrom your dream.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (10:35):
And it's not just random, it's we know you, we
want to have a relationship withyou, and we want you to fulfill
your dreams.
Lyn Wineman (10:41):
I really like it.
I like it.
Rich, tell me this.
So obviously, you are doing alot of work with homelessness
and poverty.
Why is this work so importantright now in 2026?
Rich Schaus (10:53):
Oh, I mean, from late 60s, we started this war on
poverty.
Yeah.
And we have put billions with aB into this.
Uh, some experts are sayingeven trillions of dollars into
this.
Lyn Wineman (11:05):
And it doesn't feel like it's getting a lot better,
does it?
Rich Schaus (11:07):
Uh, it's getting worse.
Yeah.
In a lot of ways, it's becauseuh we don't actually expect
anything out of these men andwomen.
We don't see the value in them.
Say, oh, they're just poorlittle boobaloos who are living
on the street.
Uh, we need to pamper them andget them into a home and get
them going forward.
And so we've kind of wasted allthis money.
And the longer they're outthere, the more ingrained they
(11:27):
get into street life.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (11:29):
And I get really nervous when they've they're
when they've been out there forthree to six months.
I start to see a change intheir thinking and their
dynamics.
Uh, and I I got it takes a longtime to shake that out of them.
Right.
And so now is the time to pullthis off because the problem is
getting so big.
I don't know how long we canwait.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm a person who wants to takeaction now.
Lyn Wineman (11:50):
I feel that about you.
And actually, that leads me tomy next question for you, Rich.
Like, how did you come to thisline of work?
Like, what shaped your callingto be in this space?
Rich Schaus (12:03):
Well, many years ago now, uh, I was in the army.
Uh, it was uh early 2001, anduh I was having a time of
prayer, and I wrote out adescription uh of a shelter.
I said that that I didn't evenknow these sort of things
existed.
I had volunteered at onebefore, uh, but I wanted
something more, something thatcould really enhance the value
and encourage people for men,for women, uh help restore
(12:26):
relationships, uh, get them backout into community and just be
an everyday person.
And I wrote this uh just as aduring a time of devotion and
prayer.
Well, as I'm getting ready toget out of the army, I decided
uh I'm just going to just try toI need to find a job because
there wasn't a job inhomelessness.
Right, right.
I don't know, I didn't have noidea.
And I in a way I had also kindof forgotten about that vision,
(12:48):
that dream that I had writtenand all.
And I kind of just put it in myjournal and said, uh, that'll
be someday.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah.
unknown (12:55):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (12:55):
And I applied, I got out of the army.
I I was a college graduate, Ihad was an army officer, and I
could not get a job.
It's 2001, it was shortlyafter.
I mean, I got out.
I was actually at my outprocessing during the whole 9-11
attacks.
And three months later, I'm outand trying to find a job, and
(13:15):
and everybody rejected me.
And I my heart broke when I gotturned down to be a mall
security guard.
Wow, yeah.
See, I am a defending thenation, but I can't defend them
all.
Can't defend them all.
But anyway, so I startedapplying for a job.
One of those jobs that I hadapplied for turns out to be a
homeless shelter.
And I at the time I didn'trealize it was a women's
(13:37):
shelter.
Because I probably would nothave put my name in it.
I just assumed no man is evergoing to be hired to work at a
women's shelter.
Right, probably not.
Uh, but it turns out that theyhad had a conversation as they
were looking to hire thisposition, saying, you know, it
would be really great if we canfind a healthy male to hang out
with these ladies because mostof these ladies have been hurt
by a male.
(13:57):
So the easiest way to get tohealing is for them to have a
healthy relationship with a maleto move them forward.
And so when they interviewedme, they they interviewed me for
three months.
Lyn Wineman (14:07):
That's a long time.
Rich Schaus (14:09):
It was over the course of three months, and I
thought, man, I I got to get ajob because I got to get these
right.
I got two kids, I gotta getthem fed, I gotta get them
diapered, clothed, and you know,they're growing.
What am I gonna do?
But eventually they hire me,and it was really gonna be my
short-term gig.
I really had dreams of being apastor or or some other leader.
Uh, I didn't really think thatI could handle this working with
(14:30):
these ladies.
Uh, my first night working withthe ladies, I was an overnight
manager.
Wow, I was terrified.
I was thinking, I've gone intosemi-conflict res uh situations,
and I was less scared thanbeing with this group of ladies
because they can destroy myreputation in a heartbeat.
Oh, right.
I'm thinking of my owntemptations, my own flesh
(14:52):
getting in the way, and Ithought, I am doomed.
But the truth is, I did reallyfall in love with these ladies.
Wow, they're incredible.
Some of them, many of them, arestill my friends in social
media.
That was in Washington, I'm inOklahoma now, so yeah, distance
separates us.
But uh, I I love uh their thepossibilities and potential
inside of them.
I love the things that arereally important to them.
(15:14):
Uh, I remember one lady, uhPamela Joe, her her nickname was
uh PJ because she loved peanutbutter and jelly, and also went
with her name, obviously.
But she threw the biggesttantrum over we ran out of
peanut butter one day.
It's like, well, we still gotjelly.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, right.
Rich Schaus (15:31):
Uh, but just the fun and the excitement, the
stories they would share, uh,the the things they would try to
get better.
Yeah.
One lady, she did she said, youknow, I could walk into a room
with a with 99 healthy, good forme men, and one guy who's gonna
treat me like dirt, and I'mgonna be the one who's gonna
treat me like dirt.
I will grab onto him.
And I she goes, so her plan wasI am not going to date for the
(15:54):
next uh, I can't remember, it'slike six months out, and I'm
going to study healthyrelationships and how to
identify healthy relationships.
Wow.
And so she took some onlineclasses that were kind of new at
the time.
Uh, she took some uh went to alocal college and took a
psychology class, trying tofigure out why in the world
she's doing this, had her owncounselor.
Uh, she invested in that.
So six months later, shestarted dating and said, Nope,
(16:16):
not for me.
And she figured out date one,he's not gonna work.
Date two, for somebody else.
Nope, not gonna work.
Eventually found a good guy,but she did the training before
she went back out in the pool.
Lyn Wineman (16:26):
Yeah, you know, Rich, because this is a podcast
and people are listening whilethey're driving and walking and
doing dishes and all the thingspeople do when they listen to
podcasts, they're not gonna getto see you.
I see your face light up whenyou talk about potential and
possibilities.
And when we started talking,one of the things you said is
people who are experiencinghomelessness are not helpless.
(16:50):
Like, talk to me more aboutthat because I do think that is
a common misperception that youwouldn't be, and I might get
myself in trouble, but I'm justgonna be really authentic.
People, I think, think you mustbe helpless or you wouldn't be
in this situation.
Tell me how wrong I am.
Rich Schaus (17:09):
Oh, uh you're your your wording is so close.
With their own, they're feelinghopeless.
Ah, and people who feelhopeless don't want to try, they
don't want to take a chance.
They have they have tried, theyhave tried a hundred different
things, a hundred differentrelationships, and all of them
have failed, and they take itinside.
It was all me.
And in some cases, there was apiece that is them, and in most
(17:31):
cases, it's gonna be an elementof them, but they have these
incredible skills and abilitiesuh to actually make our society
better, uh, but nobody's givingthem the chance.
So the first thing I have to dois I have to help reinstill
that hope inside of them.
Uh, I don't know if you or yourlisteners have heard the rat uh
experiment that they did.
Uh if there's any rat fanslistening, maybe they might not
(17:53):
want to tell me.
Tell me more.
Lyn Wineman (17:54):
I'm not sure if I've heard this one or not.
Tell me more, Rich.
Rich Schaus (17:57):
So they did this experiment where uh they took a
rat and they put him in in waterand had him swim as long as you
can swim.
And it turns out the averagerat can swim about 15 minutes,
okay, which is pretty good for amammal.
Yeah.
Without stopping, 15 minutes.
And I mean, it's literally swamto death.
I mean, that's kind of cool.
Maybe it's like a rat fan,you'd be upset right now.
Right, right, right.
(18:17):
But round two, they put the ratin, and about 14 and a half
minutes, they pulled the rat outand they said, Real rat, you
are a good little swimmer.
I'm so proud of you.
You're really good.
And I don't think they speakEnglish, but they talk nice to
them.
30 seconds to a minute, theyput them back in the water, and
they kept going.
And then, so they the the thingis that it wasn't just another
15 minutes, it was four days.
(18:40):
Four days of swimming fromthat, you know, two minutes, so
a minute and a half of hopegiven to them.
And the same thing happens withthese men and women.
If they are given that hope,these are men and women who one
time wanted to be doctors andlawyers, and yeah, they want to
be business people, and uh, theyhave creative ideas, they want
to be marketers.
Uh, one guy wants to be a DJ.
(19:00):
I talked about the uh celebritychef.
Uh, some of them just want tobe a garbage man.
Wow.
They're like, well, that'sgreat.
We need that.
We do.
Uh, we need plumbers andelectricians, and we need all
those skills.
You know, I grew up in an erawhere you're a college prepper,
you were nothing.
Right.
And I think we're paying aprice for that right now.
That's a whole differentconversation.
Lyn Wineman (19:20):
Uh there's a lot of good jobs out there.
Oh, there are high-paying jobsfor people that take alternate
paths.
And there's a lot of peoplewith expensive college degrees
that aren't making enough to paytheir student loans, right?
So there's both sides of thatequation.
Rich Schaus (19:35):
Yeah, the guy who's who's fixed my dishwasher when
it broke, he is actually anaccounting major and he's doing
this to pay off his accountinguh college fees.
Lyn Wineman (19:43):
I love it.
I love it.
So, Rich, we've got a lot ofsmart listeners, people who want
to make a difference in theworld.
What would you like to letcommunity leaders know that they
should do differently or maybemore effectively to address this
problem?
Rich Schaus (19:58):
Well, first of all, it's a team effort.
It's going to take a lot ofdifferent ideas.
You need to have the businesspeople at the table.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (20:05):
They're the ones with the money.
Uh, I think we also need torecognize uh, so you have those,
you have uh business owners,you have to have some church
leaders.
Uh and that not just, I meanI'm Christian, so I'm my brain
automatically goes there, butyou know, you can have the
Muslim and the Jewish leaders,whatever kind of faith-based
groups you have, they aredesigned for charity and care
and compassion and virtue,right?
(20:26):
All those sort of things.
Uh, you need to bring in schoolleaders because this is
impacting the children of thehome.
Lyn Wineman (20:31):
Absolutely.
Rich Schaus (20:32):
And then obviously the social workers are going to
be there because that's what wedo.
We want to be part of thatconversation.
But what tends to happen is thebusiness leaders say, Oh, you
social worker, you know whatyou're talking about.
And sometimes we do.
The conversation needs to behow does this impact our
community and our society?
So, leaders of the of thewhether city or county, they
(20:52):
need to bring them all togetherand say, How can we work
together to really not justmanage the situation, yeah, but
to help them grow and prosperand flourish.
This is one of my favoritewords that we use here is
flourish.
Lyn Wineman (21:04):
Flourish.
I love it.
It's a different word, whichmeans people take a moment to
think about it, right?
When you hear a word that youhaven't don't use every day.
Rich Schaus (21:14):
And I think of that with uh when my daughter was
three, when she's all grown up,she's getting ready to have uh
by the time this airs, I'll havefive granddaughters.
She's getting ready to havecongratulations.
Uh thank you.
Uh, but when she was three, wewere teaching her how to plant
things.
And so she would get beans andyou know, different kinds of
flowers.
She was all excited about this.
(21:35):
Well, one day I took her to thestore and we walk past and she
her eyes get real big and shegets all excited and she sees
bird seed.
And we've taught her that appleseeds grow apples and flower
seeds grow flowers.
And so, I'm gonna grow somesome birds, dad.
And I'm at that point, I'm anew dad, and I love my princess.
(21:58):
And I'm I'm gonna buy her thebird seed, we're gonna Grow some
birds.
Oh my goodness.
Because I can't break herheart.
Well, we take that bird seedhome and we you know put it in
the dirt, and there's a wholelot that goes with that, but I'm
expecting nothing to happen.
I'm going to put down a stuffedbird or something four or five
days later.
That's my plan.
Right.
However, something sprouts.
And I thought, I know it's notgoing to be a bird, but what is
(22:20):
happening here?
And we wait, waited and watchedand let it grow.
And that ended up being asunflower.
Really?
And that sunflower blossomedand grew, and eventually we had
to take it out of the pot and wehad to put it into a garden.
Wow.
And then at the end of thatseason, we took the seeds and we
planted it in the garden nextyear.
(22:42):
I love it.
It became that was flourishing.
You can either have growth oryou can have flourishing.
Lyn Wineman (22:49):
And you know what happens when you grow a
sunflower plant?
I've tried before, and it's notthat easy because birds and
deer all come and try and eatthe seeds, right?
So I do.
Rich Schaus (23:00):
That worked out because we're in the city and it
we had some protections there,but yeah.
Lyn Wineman (23:04):
Very nice, very nice.
So we talked about like whatwould you tell community leaders
and and talked about bringinglots of people together.
What if I'm just one person,just one person, I'd like to
make a difference.
What advice do you have forthat one person who wants to
make a difference in the world?
Rich Schaus (23:22):
So when you see that person, yeah, look at them
in the face.
Yeah.
We tend to look away.
Uh one day I took a bunch ofpeople, uh, our folks out, and
we had them all in dress suits,interview clothes.
Yeah.
And they were gonna stand outof the corner, same corners they
have been panhandling out, butnow we're gonna hand out
resumes.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (23:39):
And I'm out there with them, I'm dressed up just
like them.
I'm not handing out resumes,just in case my board's
listening.
I wasn't handing out resumes.
You're not looking for a newjob.
Not looking for a new job, butthey were.
But what was interesting is I'mstanding out there, they're the
people who pull up, they wouldlook away, they wouldn't look at
them.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (23:56):
And I thought, how does that gotta feel after 30,
60, 90 minutes of this?
Because I'm feeling like dirt.
I have a home, I have a job,and I'm feeling beat up after
just a little while out here tolook at them.
And then if you do feelcompelled to give them
something, I highly recommendgetting two sandwiches and
sitting down and talking tothem.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (24:18):
Hearing their story, get to know them.
Obviously, I want you to besafe too, so don't do this in an
unsafe way.
But uh, but if you can and itis safe and it's daylight, sit
down and hear their story.
You're gonna learn some newthings and interesting things.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (24:32):
I remember we're sitting at a at a restaurant, my
wife and I was one of ouranniversary meals, and my wife
gets used to this, it'sunfortunate for her.
But I'm looking out the windowand I see someone panhandling
out in the corner, and I'mthinking, okay, I'm on a date.
Yeah, I'm not going to look.
I'm not going to do it.
I'm not going out there.
I'm not going to go out there.
I don't know this particularperson, which that's kind of a
draw when I don't know who theyare.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
Right.
Rich Schaus (24:54):
I can resist a little bit when I know who they
are because I know I can have aconversation later, but I don't
know this guy.
Well, I decide I'm going to goover there and talk to him.
I said, Is it all right?
And she's okay with it.
I go out and talk to him.
And I find out he was actuallyfrom another community.
He was being bust in by someorganization that was trying to
get money.
They were using him.
Lyn Wineman (25:11):
I was like, that's not right.
That is not right.
That is why people areskeptical, right?
That is why people areskeptical.
Yeah, yeah.
Wow, Rich, that's crazy.
All right.
So the advice is look people inthe eye, talk to them, hear
their story, pay them withrespect.
I have to admit, I am guilty ofthat because I feel bad.
(25:32):
I don't know what to do.
I don't, I feel bad anduncomfortable.
So I look away.
unknown (25:37):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (25:37):
Well, that's the other thing, too.
People say, Well, what do Iwant to talk about?
You ask them what you know,what's your story?
Yeah.
That's all the question youhave to ask.
And they will take it fromthere.
Yeah.
And I also got to warn you, youmay not get the truth.
You know, that's why we kind ofgive them five weeks, and then
they can trust me enough to tellme the truth.
Lyn Wineman (25:55):
Good point for me to ask, Rich.
What's on the horizon forgospel rescue mission?
Rich Schaus (26:00):
Well, right now I'm putting together a committee
within our community, within ourcounty.
I I in Oklahoma, I tend tothink county-wise.
We have 75 or 77 differentcounties.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (26:11):
And I've done a study and figured out how many
homeless are in each county.
Wow.
Lyn Wineman (26:15):
Because that is a hard thing to do.
Those kinds of counts are noteasy to do.
Or maybe I misunderstand it.
Maybe you've got an easy way todo it, but there is no real
easy way to do it.
Rich Schaus (26:25):
And I'm pretty sure that my numbers are still
wrong.
Lyn Wineman (26:27):
But they're probably a good representation,
right?
Rich Schaus (26:30):
It gives me a good picture, a good idea of how many
are in each county.
And what we did is we actuallycalled county commissioners and
sheriffs in each county and gotthose numbers.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Well, that's probably a really good way to do it.
Rich Schaus (26:41):
They do a one-day count every year.
Yep.
However, that is they don'talways get everybody.
And somehow just when I do itover one day, they're going to
miss a lot of people.
So the numbers are not veryaccurate.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (26:54):
But that's what's used by most government
officials.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah.
Rich Schaus (26:56):
So we've done this research, we've called each of
these counties.
We have a pretty good number.
And we're going to, and this isjust our one county, we're
going to try to figure out howwould we serve our 85 homeless
folks?
And I know our numbers areactually higher than that.
Our real numbers are closer to120.
Okay.
But our one-day count's goingto be 85.
So I'm going to say, well,putting together this committee
working through a process thatwe've developed, uh, how do we
(27:19):
help those 85 and we want to getto know them by name?
Um, how do we get to know theirstory?
How do we get to help move themforward so they're not going to
be homeless three months, sixmonths, a year from now?
Speaker 1 (27:29):
Right.
Rich Schaus (27:30):
So we're putting together a strategic plan.
Uh, in November, we're electinga new governor in Oklahoma.
And I want to have a plantogether so that way somehow in
that first three to six monthsof whoever wins.
Well, we don't even have, wehave a couple candidates, but we
don't have all of them.
Lyn Wineman (27:45):
Yeah, but you have a plan.
I can tell.
I love it.
Rich Schaus (27:48):
And I'm gonna I'm gonna our group is going to
present a plan to that newgovernor and have that for their
whole time in office working onthis plan and offering our
services.
Uh, because our goal is that wewould do this in such a way
that doesn't cost the stateextra money, right?
We're already spending acertain amount.
Lyn Wineman (28:04):
We don't spend I think most states would be very
grateful for that because thereare very few states at this
moment in time that have asurplus.
And if Oklahoma does, they'reone of the very, very few.
Rich Schaus (28:17):
Uh they say they have a surplus sometimes,
depending on who's in office.
Lyn Wineman (28:21):
Yeah, that's right.
Depending on who's in officeand how close the election is.
So, Rich, you have a greatstory.
You're doing really innovativethings.
I love, I love hearing aboutyour work.
For our listeners who wouldlike to learn more, maybe send
you a donation, maybe just tapinto some of your knowledge.
Where can they find moreinformation about Gospel Rescue
(28:43):
Mission?
Rich Schaus (28:43):
Well, first they can go to grmok.org.
Grmok.org.
That will give you a generalpicture.
You'll see some opportunitiesto donate.
You also hear some stories,some part of who what we're
doing and who we are.
Also, contact information ifyou want to contact us directly,
our social media, all thosethings.
All of our social media are onFacebook and Twitter and or X,
sorry, uh, all those differentsocial media is grmok 1931.
(29:06):
We've been around since 1931.
So you can find all those.
But also for your listenerstoday, I want to offer a special
gift.
Uh, it's uh a guide for how todo this either for helping an
individual or for yourcommunity.
Wow.
Lyn Wineman (29:19):
How do they tap into that, Rich?
Rich Schaus (29:22):
So go to grmok.org backslash free gift.
Okay.
And then they'll give you anoption.
Do you want the individual oneor do you want the community
one?
Cool.
Lyn Wineman (29:33):
I'm gonna be the first person to sign up.
It would be beautiful.
All right.
We will, for our listeners, wewill have both of those links,
the um grmok.org and the linkfor the free gift on our website
with the show notes.
So if you didn't catch that, orif you're walking or driving,
uh, we will have that out therefor you so you can can catch
(29:56):
that link.
All right, I love it.
Everything you've you've saidhere is just so inspiring.
But I want to ask you myfavorite question next.
And Rich, that is I would likea Rich Schaus original quote to
inspire our listeners.
Rich Schaus (30:13):
Oh, I'm gonna caveat this with saying a lot of
people think motivation is whatthey need to get moving forward
with life.
Yeah.
When I feel like it, I'm gonnado it.
I'm gonna be a hard charger,gonna change the world.
But one of the things I'vetaught taught my children, and
that I've I have to remindmyself, is motivation isn't
gonna get you there.
Discipline is gonna get youthere.
So, discipline is more powerfulthan motivation.
(30:33):
That would be my my quote ofthe day.
Really funny story is that myson was going through some
challenges and uh he was feelinga lack of motivation.
So, I of course I shared thatwith him again.
You remember it's not aboutmotivation, it's about
discipline.
You just get up and you do yourjob and you do the right things
and you eat right and exerciseand do these basic things.
Uh, and I didn't think he wasreally listening because he kind
(30:54):
of said, Oh, yeah, dad, I'veheard that.
He kind of blew me off.
Yeah.
Well, my wife was talking aboutnot being motivated one day,
and my son goes, You know, mom,motivation only gets you so far.
Discipline is more powerfulthan motivation.
Lyn Wineman (31:05):
I was like, Yes, I love it.
Rich Schaus (31:07):
The boy was listening.
Lyn Wineman (31:09):
You know, parent parenting is a difficult task,
and when you get those wins likethat, it just propels you
forward.
Uh you could swim for four daysafter that, I bet, right?
I bet.
I love it.
Rich, such a greatconversation.
As we wrap up our timetogether, I'd love to hear from
your perspective what is themost important thing you would
(31:31):
like our listeners to rememberabout the work that you're
doing.
Rich Schaus (31:35):
Well, I have a different categories.
I've been thinking about this alittle bit.
So if you are someone who's asocial worker or someone who's
working with the homeless, don'tgive up.
There are days where you'regonna feel like quitting.
Uh, I've been to more funeralsfor drug overdoses in my career
than I can count.
It is heartbreaking anddevastating.
Uh, you you have to rejoice inthem being in jail because you
(31:55):
know where they're at andthey're safe or okay at least.
So if you're a social worker orsomebody working with the
homeless, don't give up.
If you're a community leader, Iwould love to help you out.
You cannot do this on your own.
You have an expertise ongoverning your community, but
you cannot be everywhere doingeverything.
So find someone like myself orsomeone else who can be an
(32:16):
expert for you to help you doit.
Very nice.
And then if you're anindividual, don't just do a
handout.
That is so demeaning and ithurts them in the long run.
They will take that stuffbecause they they feel like they
need it.
But really, what they need isrelationship.
In America, we are not uhmaterial uh poor in any way,
(32:37):
shape, or form.
Even those who are homeless arenot materially poor, they are
relationship poor.
Yeah, so give themrelationship, get to know them,
hear their story, reconnect withthem.
You can do it over a meal, youcan do it in a shelter, you can
do it all sorts of places, butbuild a relationship first and
foremost.
Lyn Wineman (32:54):
Wow, great advice.
Rich, I really enjoyed thisconversation.
I fully believe the world needsmore people like you, more
organizations like Gospel RescueMission.
Thank you so much for takingtime to talk with us today.
Announcer (33:09):
Thank you for having me today.
We hope you enjoyed today'sAgency for Change podcast.
To hear all our interviews withthose who are making a positive
change in our communities, orto nominate a change maker you'd
love to hear from, visitkidglove.com at kidg-lo-v.com to
get in touch.
As always, if you like whatyou've heard today, be sure to
(33:31):
rate, review, subscribe, andshare.
Thanks for listening, and we'llsee you next time.
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