Jagged Edge (1985)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:18):
Hello, and welcome to the All Eighties Movies podcast, the
podcast where we talk about the block, buksh stuff, blocks,
everything in between from one of the press decades from
movies the nineteen eighties. I'm your host Bill Banton Long
Meela's Journey read his nine eighties movies. Is my co
host Jason Massek. Hello, Jason, Is he psychopathic?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
No, but he's manipulative and he didn't get where he
is without being manipulative. Neither did I, neither did you.
But did he do that bloodbath? I don't know. But
if you're asking me whether I think he's capable of
doing that, well I saw nothing that would lead me
to that conclusion.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
That's right, Listeners, we are discussing with spoilers of plenty,
the nineteen eighty courtroom thriller Jacket Edge. It was produced
by Martin Ranshoff and distributed by Columbia Pictures. The movie
stars Jeff Daniels, Glenn Close, and Peter Coyote. Director by
Richard Markwan, this movie is rated R with the running
time of one hour and forty eight minutes. The movie

(01:17):
received a single OSCAR nomination Best Supporting Actor for Robert Loja.
So what is this movie about what's on the box.
If you grew up in the nineteen eighties and what's
your local video steward to rent this movie, you would
find this description on the back of the VHS box.
It is what's in the box?

Speaker 2 (01:34):
Take it away? Jason, A grizzly homicide, A sensational trial,
a forbidden affair. It's Jagged Edge, a razor sharp suspense
thriller about crime, punishment, and passion. Jeff Bridges is the
prime suspect and Glenn Close plays the attorney who falls
in love with him. When a San Francisco socialite is

(01:55):
viciously murdered, her publisher husband, Jack Forrester, is accused of
omitting the crime. Teddy Barnes decides to defend the charming,
manipulative Jack, only to disregard legal ethics by having an
affair with him. With the help of private eye Sam Ransom,
she takes on a ruthless da who's using the case
as a political stepping stone. However, a startling revelation puts

(02:20):
Teddy in jeopardy of becoming the next victim of the
Jagged Edge.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Jagged Edge, So that was What's in the box.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Let's move on. To our eighty snapshot.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
As we highlight some of the creative forces from this movie.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Jason, who do you Got? I Got Our? Director? Richard
Markwand Richard Marquand was born in Lennishen, Cardiff, Wales of
the UK. He is a director and producer. His career
started back in the early sixties, directing TV series and
TV movies. He won an Emmy for his outstanding work
on the mini series The Search for the Nile from

(02:55):
nineteen seventy one, and now right to his eighties snapshot.
He directed the film I of the Needle in nineteen
eighty one, which fans of the show may recall that
I mentioned this because this was the movie my parents
went to see while my sister and I went to
see the re release of Empire Strikes Back in an
adjacent theater, and sure enough the director of Eye of

(03:19):
the Needle, that being Richard Markwe would go on then
to direct Star Wars Episode six, Return of the Jedi
in eighty three, and then he directs a film called
Until September in eighty four, then This Jagged Edge in
eighty five, then Hearts of Fire in eighty seven. A
little trivia about Richard he was the only non American
to direct a Star Wars film until Gareth Edwards directed

(03:42):
Rogue One, a Star Wars story, in twenty sixteen. Then, sadly,
on August thirtieth of nineteen eighty seven, Mark One had
a stroke at his home in Penhurst. He was taken
to the hospital, where he unfortunately passed five days later.
His last film, Hearts of Fire, starring Bob Dylan, was
released posthumously. A couple of quotes from Richard Marquand, I'm

(04:06):
very interested in directing actors. Many directors direct cameras. And
then here's another quote on having George Lucas as his
second unit director on Star Wars episode six, Return of
the Jedi. He says, it's rather like trying to direct
King Lear with Shakespeare in the next room. Richard Marquand gone.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Too soon, definitely. So I have screenwriter Joe Esterhouse, who
was born in Hungary but grew up in Cleveland, Ohio.
He got to start in Hollywood with the nineteen seventy
eight film Fist starring Sylvester Stallone. A few years later
he co wrote Flash Dance, which we covered in Season four,
which turned out to be one of the biggest box

(04:46):
office hits of the year. He also did an uncredited
rewrite on Blue Thunder before writing Jagged Edge in nineteen
eighty five. In late eighties, he kept busy with films
like Big Shots and Hearts of Fire, both in nineteen
eighty seven, Betrayed and Checking Out in nineteen eighty eight,
and Music Box in nineteen eighty nine. Then in nineteen
ninety a spec script he wrote called Love Hurts sparked

(05:10):
a bidding war ended up selling for a then record
three million dollars. That script eventually became Basic Instinct from
nineteen eighty two, directed by Paul Verhoven. Esterhouse later wrote
Showgirls in Jade in nineteen ninety five, votes which stirred
up plenty of controversy. Beyond screenwriting, he also wrote six books,

(05:31):
including a memoir called Hollywood Animal in two thousand and
four and The Devil's Guide to Hollywood, which dives into
the behind the scenes world of the film industry. So
that is our screenwriter, Joe Esterhouse. Cool, that sticks us
on to earliest memories, Jason, we're your earliest memories of
Jacket Edge.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yeah, let's start to get into it, so this will
be quick ah, my famous first words. Cut to an
hour later. Well, I actually have only vague memories of
seeing parts of this legal thriller in the later eighties
on television. Did not see this in the theater, and
as some listeners also may recall, I mentioned this film

(06:14):
in a minisode I believe we did. It contained one
of the scariest scenes for me as a kid, and
that's at the very beginning of the film when we
see the setting of this posh beach house in near
San Francisco, and we go inside the home to see
a woman asleep in her bedroom, and then we're introduced
to our killer. Dressed all in black, including a ski mask.
He enters the room, ties the woman up to her bed,

(06:37):
brandishes a six inch hunting knife, taunts her with it,
tears her clothes open, and then lowers the knife to
her chest and begins to cut and we hear a
terrible scream. And this is all followed by the introduction
then of Peter Coyote, who plays Da Thomas Krasny, who
arrives at the beach house to inspect the scene of
this vicious crime. He's greeted by detectives and the usual

(06:58):
people working the scene when he makes up his way
up the stairs and then first sees the bloody dead
body of Consuela. The maid goes to the bedroom where
we see the female murder victim. There's blood everywhere. Her
breasts have been sliced off, and the word bitch is
written above her on the wall in her blood, and
we learn that this is Page Forrester, owner of the
San Francisco Times, and her husband, Jack Forrester, is the

(07:21):
chief editor at that newspaper, and he was knocked out
by the killer supposedly at the scene and now is
at the hospital and has become the number one suspect
in his own wife's murder. Seeing that crime occur at
the beginning of the film, followed by the bloody murder
scene when Peter Coyote as the DA shows up. It
shook me, Bill, it shook me, and it stayed with

(07:43):
me all through the years. It's quite horrific. Interestingly enough,
just I guess I'm jumping to initial thoughts watching it today.
It's so funny how it comes off differently and how
I see it differently. It is not quite as affecting,
but as a kid, your imagination runs away with you.
And I just couldn't imagine enduring that as like you

(08:06):
put yourself in the victim's shoes and it's just an awful,
awful murder. And then the bloody scene. You know, if
you're seeing this as a young person for the first time,
you see blood everywhere, it is just like that scares
the hell out of you. So, like I said, yeah,
that just sticks with me. I didn't really remember anything
else specific about the movie outside of the crime scene
at the beginning, but then as I watched it, I

(08:26):
did recall that I must have watched this whole movie,
because as I was watching it today, I knew who
the killer was. I'm not going to spoil it yet,
but I must have watched this whole thing. So I
remember the beginning, I remember the very end. I just
didn't remember a lot in between. And maybe that says something.
I'm not sure we'll get into it. Other than that,

(08:49):
I can say. I saw, of course, a few of
Jeff Bridge's films in the eighties. I was a fan,
specifically of Tron and Starman. I really didn't know much
about Glenn Close at the time, not until after this
film came out. Because you know, a fatal Traction coming
out in eighty seven, one of the best suspense thrillers
of all time.

Speaker 1 (09:08):
So what say you, Bill band Jason. I think the
opening scene is still disturbing, especially when you find out
who the killer is, and we're gonna spoil that at
some point, So if you have not seen this movie,
maybe you should watch it first before we get into it,
because I will definitely spoil it at some point. Yeah,
we're going I think we have to definitely. For me

(09:29):
earliest memories, I remember when this movie came out, I
really wanted to see it. I didn't see in the theater,
but it was one of those movies that was at
the video store and it was if I don't find
something else, I'm going to rent Jagged Edge, And every
time I walked out of the video store with something else.
So I talked about this once so my freshman year

(09:51):
of college, so I rent it twenty five movies in
five days, so I basically watched all those eighties movies
I missed and Jagged Edge was one of those twenty five,
so I finally.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
Got to see it. So I would literally rent five movies.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
I would tell my mom which movies I was renting
and then she'd be like, Oh, I want to watch
that one with you, So that's that would be like
our night watch. And then I'd watched like Black Moon
Rising or Bukaroo Bondzi during the day when no one
else wanted to watch it. But yeah, that's when I
finally got to see Jagged Edge. I still even think
at that point I didn't know who the killer was

(10:28):
m so it was still kind of surprise going into it.
But it definitely took me a while to finally go
see that movie, and it was what I just always.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Wanted to see.

Speaker 1 (10:37):
It just never got around to it. But I'm glad
that I finally did.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
That's great. I was going to comment on a couple
of things you said there, but I think we're just
going to get into it in our initial thoughts. Yeah,
let's do it. What do you got, Well, let's start
at the beginning. Always a good place to start. Opening credits.
Gorgeous nighttime romantic shot of the San Francisco Bay Golden
Gate Bridge was a couple wonderful shots. Credit to the

(11:03):
cinematography in this film of the Golden Gate Bridge in
the early portion of this movie. And then you know,
we see the credits role, and it's just the names
start popping up and you're like, oh, this is what
really I didn't Okay, awesome, Starting with of course Richard
Markland because I only know him of Return of the

(11:24):
Jedi fame, so it was great to see that he
was at the Helm. I had no idea. And then
must mention the score right off the bat as the
music comes in. Got to recognize that John Barry tone
just really romantic. I'm a fan of his scores. I've
purchased his soundtracks in the past. I've got a bunch
of his scores. I love me some John Berry of

(11:45):
course Double O seven right, James Bond. But then beyond that,
I just I'm a fan of his. You know, very
sweeping score in moments, a lot of strings, a lot
of piano, a lot of romance. Very pretty. Although I
will say this Bill Bant I found the score to
be a bit mellow drum at times. He drops some
heavy synth blasts in some moments, but overall enjoyed it.

(12:06):
Glad he was doing the score.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah, the opening scene I was kind of like, but
then I was fine.

Speaker 2 (12:13):
With you're right, And that comes into play later on
the film. On in the film too, is almost a
callback when I believe it's either from the POV of
the killer or we're seeing the killer going up the
staircase and it's boom boom, and we're like, oh my god, yeah,
we know, we know it did not have a copy
of this one. Yeah right. So sticking with the opening credits,

(12:37):
here we see Glenn Close getting top billing. Good for her.
And you know what, always always good to see Robert
Loggia's name pop up, just another one of those character
actors that is always a pleasure to see. We'll talk
about him a little bit more and we just get
a great bunch of these Hey it's that actor. I'm

(13:00):
not gonna spoil our choice for Hey it's that actor here,
but I will mention other some other character actors in this,
such as, first of all, the aforementioned Peter Coyote awesome
as the main antagonist district attorney in this douchebag Cranzy
I believe is his name, and then we get Lance
Henrickson is one of the main detectives. Love it. Other

(13:22):
recognizable faces like Al Russio, James Karen and I wanted
to give a quick shout out right now to the
actor Marshall Colt who plays the arrogant and aggressively cocky
ladies man douchebag Bobby Slade. I think he's a total
dick in this and I think he's great, and I
love these character names in this film. We've got Bobby Slade,

(13:45):
what a great name for a scumbag, and then we
get Krasny as I mentioned Peter Coyote's character douchebag DA
Teddy Barnes, Teddy Barnes being the defense attorney played by
Glenn Close. Teddy Barnes great name. Sam Rant him for
Robert Losja's character he plays the lead investigator for the defense.
I mean, these are classic neo noir or noir thriller

(14:10):
character names, So I love that. So let's actually talk
about some of the stars here, Bill Bant, what do
you think about Glenn Close in this as defense attorney
Teddy Barnes. She is defending Jeff Bridges, who is playing
the character of Jack or John if you will, Jack Forrester.
I liked her a lot in this. I think she
portrays a real strong resolve when her character is either

(14:34):
facing some sort of hardship or shit's hitting the fan
in the courtroom. She has a very still expression, she's
very stoic, yet there's something in her eyes or it's
a subtle lip movement that reveals what's going on underneath,
and she plays that throughout the film. And I appreciated
her subtlety in this, very different from obviously here when

(14:59):
she play he's in Fatal Attraction. What'd you think of
her performance in this?

Speaker 1 (15:03):
Oh, I love her in this and yeah, most of
my favorite scenes are because of her reactions to things
that happen in this movie. She does so much face acting.
She's just not saying anything, but you totally know what's
going on with her in those moments.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
I enjoyed her a lot in this.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
She's one of those actresses just like a Meryl Streep.
She commands the screen when she's on it, you want
to see what she's going to do next. She can
be unpredictable in moments, and she's fascinating to look at
her face. Moving on to Jeff Bridges, of course, he
portrays Jack Forrester, the defendant, the one being accused of
killing his wife, and he is the editor of the
San Francisco Times, which was owned by his wife. You know,

(15:44):
we talked about him on our Tron pod and I'm
a huge fan, no surprise there. I think he's a
great leading man, He's had a great career, and I've
still and I've probably said this on our Tron podcast,
but I still think he could have even been bigger.
I love Tron, I love Starman against all odds, the
Fabulous Baker Boys, True Grit, Hell or high Water, even

(16:05):
give me Tucker the man in his Dream. I always
just mentioned that because Lucas is attached to that. But
I don't know. I'm just going to say this right
or ask this to your bill right now. Do you
think he could have been bigger, should have been bigger,
and why do you think he wasn't? Or do you
think he had the career that he was meant to have.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
It's funny that you say that, Jayson, because that was
actually part of my initial thoughts. When you look at
this movie and your top two build stars are Glen
Close and Jeff Bridges. How many Oscar nominations they have
right between the two of them. But when you look
back on the eighties and the stars from that decade,

(16:47):
when do I start mentioning Glen Coos and Jeff Bridges
a little further down the you're talking Stallone Schwartzenegger, all
the actors in the brat Pack, right. I was thinking
of all the actors I would mention before or I
would get to either one of them, and I was like, Wow,
that's crazy. And if this movie was maybe made in

(17:07):
ninety eight, just the star power behind those two names,
you would think this is a must watch. I need
to watch these two actors together.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
Right.

Speaker 1 (17:18):
But in eighty five Glenn Close, the Natural and the
Big Chill, I think that's the only thing I knew
were in going into that at that point, and then
of course Fatal Attraction. But Jeff Bridges, yeah, he did
Starman Tron. But I don't think of them as eighties actors,
even though they did so much in the eighties and

(17:39):
did iconic movies in the eighties.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
It's just weird to me. It's confusing, and it is weird,
and when you think about it first, I mean, you
can just make the blanket statement that there was just
so many great movies in the eighties. That's why we're
doing this podcast, and that's why we are in the
creative industries. Because the eighties were awesome. And when you
talk about those names, like there's Eddie Murphy, there's Mel Gibson,

(18:02):
there's Bruce Willis. You just name all of these other stars,
and they're just far down on the list, and they
got swallowed up somehow because obviously they had great careers
at this point in nineteen eighty five. Yeah, they're still
probably coming into their own, but they have very classic
looks about them. But we watched Jeff Bridges in this,
and I'm watching I thought about this too when later

(18:24):
on I'd seen against all odds, I'm like, this dude
is one hundred percent a stud. He's tall, he's got
to be like six to two. He's beautiful. Jeff Bridges
is a beautiful man, and he's one of the factors.
Oh yeah, And I'm like, what this guy? Why is
He's got such an interesting look too. I mean, he's

(18:45):
not just a pretty face. I think in this he
plays that sort of cold behind the eyes very well
in moments, or a sort of distant, unaffected quality that
you can catch in moments, and then in other moments
he flips and turns on that warm charm and you're like, man,
why is this guy just not. He is, but he

(19:08):
isn't right one of those those names that comes to
the top of your mind when you think of eighties movies.
Like you said, so, I thought he was great in
this and you mentioned them together, Jeff bridgesn't Glenn Close.
I love them together in this film. We might get
into the casting later on, but I think this was
perfectly cast. I think they have wonderful chemistry in this

(19:28):
and they work well together, so kudos to them. Now
we move on to the one and only, the indelible
Robert Loja as Teddy's lead investigator Sam Ransom definitely the
standout for me in this film, although we were just
ludding the performances of Glenn Close and Jeff Bridges. Lojia,
come on, gruff old, curmudgeon ly, raspy love this guy

(19:51):
always always exudes a certain amount of underlying warmth. You
want him on your side. He always feels like this.
This uh protect a wise old man, perfect as the
veteran and brilliant investigator. And I also thought, looking back
at this, now, do we actually see him really do

(20:12):
any investigating in this or does he just show up
with the evidence at Rhadam He just shows up with
that all the time. Yeah, yeah, we don't really see
him doing any digging. But he's a character, and I
think he's very good in this. He provides a little
levity in moments. I liked his character the way it
was written a lot, in the way that he's very

(20:32):
grounding and also seems to have a sixth sense about
this particular case and he's the only one that kind
of gets it right from the beginning. I'll just say that,
what do you have to say about Robert Losher? How
do you feel about him?

Speaker 1 (20:46):
It's funny because you know, you always do your prep
work before, or at least I do before I watch
the movie. And then when I saw Oscar nominations, like, oh,
it's notminidro an Oscar went for it right, And then
I saw Robert Losa and I'm like, really, I don't
even remember being in the movie. But then when I
was watching it, I go, oh, yeah, I definitely see
why he got nominated. How did I forget this performance?

(21:07):
So yeah, it's good because he is in a way
playing against type. He's always known for gangster roles that
kind of stuff, So the fact he's the gruff man
with a heart of gold. The tough exterior, but he's
soft on the inside. It was probably a surprise to
a lot of people to see him like that, and
I'm glad he got his just rewards.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yeah you know, he's nominated for Best Supporting Actor. I
love to see that because he is great in this.
I think he works really well with Glenn Close, kind
of plays a father figure. They have great chemistry together.
Every time he pops up in the movie, You're like, hell, yeah,
he lights up the screen. He's got a presence. I
love the way he looks. He's a total throwback. He
is the throwback to the old school noir films here

(21:53):
wearing that fedora sort of that rain coat. He's old school.
He's an older guy. Yeah, you know, he's the old school.
He brings the old school to this, which is pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
I was jokingly saying to myself because I'm usually good
at movie trivia, and the movie trivia was Robert Lows
has been nominated for the Best Supporting Actor. Name the movie.
I probably would have named twenty movies before I had
gotten to Jack at Edge. I would have went big
and I'm like, no, I know that's not right, but
that's what.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
I would think.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Yeah, yeah, but it is deserved for this movie.

Speaker 2 (22:26):
Absolutely. Let's just get into some overall thoughts here. Then, finally, Bill,
I'm a sucker for a courtroom drama, for a legal thriller.
Always love him, especially when either side, either to the
prosecution or the defence, drops a bomb with the last
minute evidence, or presents a last minute witness, or the
lead investigator comes running into the courtroom some last minute evidence,

(22:47):
the twists, the stakes, who's telling the truth, who's lying
under oath. I love seeing lead attorneys for both sides
presenting opening statements and closing arguments. They're actors. So much
of it is performance and the presentation, and I myself
to that being an actor myself, I even when I
was young, had a moment where I thought maybe I
would want to be a lawyer because of that very

(23:08):
fact you get to perform, and it's combined with then
my fascination with criminal law. It's cool and I like
seeing it in movies. It can be very suspenseful, the
tension in the air when the verdict is being read.
It's all of it. So to start with the good stuff.
My thoughts on this overall, I enjoyed that courtroom drama
aspect of it. I like Peter Coyote going against Glenn Close.

(23:30):
I like their animosity for each other. I like their
history with one another. The obstacles in this and the
relationships worked for me. The way it was set up,
it's complicated, the suspense in the courtroom is there. Is
it the best courtroom drama I've ever seen? No, but
it's smart enough. I thought it was still smartly constructed,
and if you haven't seen it before, it does keep

(23:52):
you guessing. I think, like you said at the top, Bill,
where you're like, ah, I'm not actually sure who did it?
Like who is the killer? I don't remember? And even
though I remembered who the killer was, surprisingly enough, it
still was pretty good. I was like, huh, okay, I
can see how you would be wavering the entire time.

(24:12):
And like I said, chemistry between these actors all good,
great cast. So there's some decent character development, and they
lay that groundwork of the obstacles and their complicated relationships
to one another and passes. But my main issue with
this Bill Bant is not the character development, but the
relationship development. I buy the chemistry. They got it it's

(24:35):
the initial development of the relationship, the main one, of course,
being between Teddy and Jack defense attorney and the accused.
I'll get it into it more in my complaints, but
I feel like it needed another level. I feel that
this film was a little bit by the numbers and

(24:56):
a little bit superficial. Not entirely superficial. It just kind
of it went along. The movie had pace, it flowed.
It's a little less than two hours. I didn't feel
like I was bored at any point. It's just that
I like levels. I've said this million times. I like levels.
It could have gone deep. I thought it could have
been even sexier, more steamy between Close in Bridges and

(25:18):
for lack of a better word, don't kill me for this,
but I thought it needed just a little more edge,
just a little more edge, a little more sexual tension.
I thought the relationship between Bridges and Close should have
been building and building like a boiling pot. I wanted
even to see Close really feel that betrayal even more
than she did, and she feels it a lot. But

(25:39):
I wanted more, and I wanted to see Jeff Bridges
do as thing as an actor and really really be
even more manipulating. See that ice cold calm manipulation. In moments,
I'll reference the scene that happens outside on the rooftop
parking area near the courthouse or on the courthouse after
they've just gotten their asses handed them in the court
and Teddy feels betrayed, feels she has been lied to

(26:03):
by Forrester Jeff Bridges's character, and she says she's done,
and Forster tries to come up with these excuses as
to why he lied to her, and he's struggling. But
I wanted to see him some other levels with him too.
I don't know if that's a directing thing and acting thing,
but again levels. For me, the movie makes Teddy Barnes

(26:24):
look like a very capable lawyer but an absolute idiot
when it comes to relationships. Things just happen too quickly
between them for me to buy into it wholeheartedly. I'll
talk about it more later. I feel like the movie
is capably executed by everyone, from director to actors, cinematography
to editing. It's just a little better than okay for me.
I liked it even though it's a neo noir crime thriller.

(26:46):
I wanted a little more thriller and a little more drama.
It didn't go quite deep enough for me personally, so
I enjoyed it. I thought it was very good, not great.
I have one final question for you. Do you think
I think the movie was well? Maybe I answered this.
Did you at any point ever think it was predictable?

(27:07):
It's so hard because you rewatching this time. I knew
who the killer was.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, But being young enough when I
watched it the first time, I probably needed to wait
till the end to figure out who did it.

Speaker 2 (27:23):
I'm gonna go no, Okay, I don't think it was
really predictable. Jase.

Speaker 1 (27:28):
I'm gonna have to disagree with you with the levels
between Close and Bridges, because I think once you find
out the ending, I'm sorry, I'm gonna spoil it.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, yeah, it's about to so Jeff Bridges, Jack Farster.

Speaker 1 (27:43):
We do find out the end of the movie that
he does kill his wife, right, he was the killer.
But what I liked then is would you go back
and think of everything he had to do to prove
his innocence. It's like, Wow, he was twenty steps ahead,
and I think one of those steps was he knew

(28:04):
within the law firm that worked for him that they
had Teddy Barnes as a former prosecutor who didn't want
to prosecute anymore. M Hm, I need her. I'm going
to manipulate her into liking me because that's what I'm
good at. And he does it. He does exactly what
he needs to do to get him off for this murder.

(28:27):
So I think he's got to move fast. He's got
to make sure that she's on his side, and he
knows her past. He knows she doesn't like prosecuting anymore.
She doesn't like taking on these times of cases. So
what does he need to do to get her to
do this. He's got to give himself to her, and
that's what he does, and that's why she buys in

(28:48):
and that's why she gets him off. Wow, he had
to do his homework, no question, once he decided he
was going to kill his wife. And that's why I
think that opening scene is way more disturbing because he
just doesn't I would stab her. He tortures her right,
and the fact that he goes to do it to
someone else to establish that this might possibly be a

(29:08):
serial killer. And then he basically tells his law firm. No,
you need to find someone within your law firm. And
they're just like, oh, well, we happen to have a
former attorney that might be able to do this, and
they talk her into doing it, and then he manipulates
her and boom, he gets off.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
I agree with all of that absolutely, one thousand percent.
I think it's smartly written in that way. Like I said, constructed,
there's some things that, like you said, you look back
and you're like, wow, he really had to put in
the time and effort to make this work. Yeah, that
is calculating. He's so calculating. I just thought for the

(29:50):
relationship between her and him, that it happened way too quickly.
I thought she just kind of felt but he needed
it too. But he might know too. But I just
think she's supposed to be smarter than that, you know.
And I would have liked to see maybe that's all
I needed. Maybe there just isn't enough time for all

(30:11):
these levels that I'm talking about, And that's a fact.
You got a couple hours to do this, And I
just would have liked to see a little bit more
of a struggle with her in her own morality and
conscious or conscience in falling for him. You know what
I mean, it just has like super charming. Oh yeah,
that's true. You can't do that. That he's a he's

(30:33):
a step but like she's like, it's only a bitter.
I don't know, we'll get I'll talk about it more
in the in the complaints. But and it's as it
also works that she separated. Oh yeah, sure, she's forced. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:44):
I think the movie is good, but then when you
think about what he had to do, it makes it better.
But then when she finds out and then how the
movie ends, it then knocks it down a pay almost
cancels that out. So the movie just stays good. Okay, good.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
I was Yeah, I was wondering where you were going
to end on that. But great thoughts, Great thoughts, Bill
ban Yeah, and just all the people that are in
this movie. And I don't want to mention any the
names because I don't want to accidentally step on Hay
it's that actor. If you don't mention him, I will
bring it up later then, just because I was totally
surprised to see this one particular actor in the movie.
And Peter Coyote was pretty good in this too. I

(31:27):
like the fact that he actually spells out the murder
like what had happened. Unfortunately, just can't prove it, and
that's one of the reasons why Bridges comes off. But
for you know, the nun nuns in the audience to
have no idea what's going on. He tells you it
was like, this is what he's doing. And I kind
of find that funny after the fact. Yeah, it's a
great scene because I think actually Teddy Barnes is quite

(31:50):
manipulative of Cramzy because she knows how he has operated
in the past and has hidden evidence or held back
evidence and discovery, et cetera. And she is goading him
a little bit without actually saying anything because it could
implicate herself because she was also involved anyway. So when
that happens, then at the end, when she's gotten the

(32:13):
upper hand in this courtroom case and it seems as
though she's going to get Forrester off when Cranzy finally
lays out all those things, like he goes from A
to Z and says, don't you see he did this.
He was manipulating this the whole time. He actually went
you know, he was planning this eighteen months ago when
he attacked Julia Jensener is that her name? Uh, and

(32:35):
made it look like this was a serial killer. He
was the one sending you those notes from the typewriter.
But he's doing it so desperately and out of anger
and frustration. It makes him look weak and then takes
away from his argument. It's really smart. Yeah, yeah, you're
just desperate in this moment. Man. What you're saying makes sense,
but you're kind of grasping at straws because you know

(32:57):
this is a losing effort. You've lost. But he spells it.
He's exactly right. He was exactly right. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
He definitely makes a lot of mistakes in this, which
gets a little frustrating.

Speaker 2 (33:06):
Mm hmm. Yeah. So yeah, there's a lot.

Speaker 1 (33:09):
Of frustrating movements throughout the movie, but I think I
still enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, you're right when you think about the fact that
it is Jack Forster, it is Jeff Bridges' character that
killed his wife, he is guilty, and then you look
back upon it on everything he had to do. There
was a couple other smart elements, one being that when
they say in the beginning that they found only the
only fingerprints they found in the house were Paige Forrester's

(33:36):
his wife, his own prince, and the maid's prince. They
found blood. Paige Forester's blood was everywhere, the maid's blood
was everywhere, but they only found the wife's blood on Jack,
on the husband. I thought that was smart. I caught
it on a rewatch where I was like, oh wow
when he because we know he killed the maid too, right,

(33:58):
but didn't get at her blood on him, only his
wife's blood. Because that's logical. If he were not the killer,
he wouldn't be all over the maid. He'd be going
directly to his wife, trying to save her or being
grieving over her, and her blood would get on him
only her blood. Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (34:19):
Yeah, that poor maid, she gets lost in this.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
I have that in my complaints that he may gets
lost in them, and I have questions about how. Yeah, okay, yeah,
we're going to get into it.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Let's move on to favorite scenes or moments. What are
some of her favorite scenes of moments from Jagged Edge?

Speaker 2 (34:33):
All right, so let's talk about Loggia's introduction. I'm going
to take a step back here, and I got to
preface this scene actually, because what's revealed before this is
that when Teddy Barnes worked for the DA Cranzy. She
was the lead prosecutor on the case of Henry Stiles.

(34:56):
Was he being accused of murder? Is that what it was?

Speaker 1 (34:58):
I don't think we ever find out what it is.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, but she won the case. He was convicted, this
Henry Stiles fellow, and ended up serving a long sentence
in jail. However, the news has come out that Styles
committed suicide in prison, and this affects Teddy in a
certain way, and we can tell something shady must have
happened in that case leading up to or after Henry

(35:21):
Styles's conviction when she was working with DA Cransey. So
Teddy ends up going to see her friend and investigator
Sam Ransom played by Robert Loja. She approaches this rundown
house he clearly doesn't want any visitors, and he comes
out and he just sees her. You can tell he
hasn't seen her for some time, but it's a warm welcome.

(35:44):
He's got that raspy voice. He looks like he's half
in the back. I don't know. He looks pretty tired,
but he says this line, he goes, ah, look at you,
you look like a real broad and I'm like, oh
my god, that's such an old guy expression from the
eighties when you call women broads. You just don't hear
that anymore, you that. So, yeah, he's old, he's beat up.

(36:05):
They go inside and he grabs her Budweiser. Sure you
know you're gonna have a couple of beers, and she's like, yeah,
you were the best investigator the DA's office ever had.
And we learned Now, okay, there's the connection. Not only
are they friends, he's an investigator, she's an attorney, but
they all work together under DA crazy in the past,
about four years ago prior. And the reason for this
scene is that Teddy, after having now met with Jack Forrester,

(36:28):
she was on the fence about taking the case. She's
now seriously taking thinking about taking on this murder case,
and she's looking to get either Sam's advice should she
take the case or is she there to recruit Sam
to be her investigator once again on this case now
that she would be in the role of defense attorney
going up against Cranzy, not working for him, but against him.

(36:52):
So Sam Loggia dubious about this, thinking she'll never get
Forrester off. But this even how further's her resolve. She
repeatedly says she's if he's innocent, If Jack Forrester is innocent,
I'll get him off because she's very confident in her ability.
And Sam thinks that Teddy's doing this somehow to absolve

(37:14):
her own guilt over the Henry Styles case, or somehow
to redeem herself because of what happened with Henry Styles.
She tells Sam they can't forget about Styles. Sam blows
up about it, clearly feeling guilty about it too, but
he blames Cransey for all of what happened in the
past regarding Henry Styles. And there's this great last shot
of Glenn Close's as Teddy Barnes when Sam's blowing up,

(37:37):
and it's great because Robert Losja is awesome in the scene.
He's freaking out. He's just really mad. He's this old guy, like,
it's not our fault. It was Cranzy's fault, the whole
Henry Styles thing. But the entire time we were talking
about this earlier, Glenn Close has this very calm, assured
look upon her face as he's losing it. She's completely calm,
and we know in that moment Oh, she's going to

(37:59):
take the case. She's gonna take the forester case. It's
fun scene. It's a great introduction of the character. I
like their chemistry. You can see immediately what their relationship is.
That's Robert loj and Glen Close. I like his character
a lot. I see this archetype or stereotype a little bit,
but Loja just exudes that combination of gruff and warmth

(38:20):
and I love it. Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
I had this as one of my favorite scenes also,
and a Strafts off where she's pounded on the door
and you hear him screaming like and he comes down
and sees that it's teddy and his heart opens up
in the hug and they go upstairs. And once they're
in that scene, I'm like, oh, yeah, I see why
I got nominated. And there's a funny moment because it

(38:43):
seems like he's retired from investigating and he's like, I'm
too old for that, and it's like.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
It was only four years four years ago. That just
kind of made me laugh.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
And then when he opens his fridge and it's just
all full of beer, I was like, oh my god,
that's great. He's just basically just hangs out in this
apartment and drinks beer, probably listens to ballgames or whatnot,
and that's what he's resigned to. Now this bud's for you. Yeah,
But the fact that he shows he still cares for
Teddy and that he's going to be behind Teddy on

(39:14):
this case and he knows that Teddy's going through a lot,
I just really respected it. And it just through a
whole bunch of f bombs, it still came across as
he's a good guy. He's someone you want in your corner.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Without a doubt that you just hit on it right
there at the end because despite his frustration with the past,
and it's nice to see that they have that relationship
and commonality and they have this thing between them that
they're trying to get over and it has to do
with guilt. He still loves her. You can see that
he loves her in a like a friendly fatherly protect

(39:51):
her way and it's very clearly established in an interesting way,
and it's well acted, so good stuff. He's going to
run through as for her, right exactly, all right? So
for me, my next two favorite scenes does involved the courtroom,
and a lot of it is because of just reactions

(40:12):
from our main two characters, Glenn Close and Jeff Bridges.
So the first one the prosecutor puts on for a witness,
Missus Virginia Howell, because the prosecutors are trying to establish
what the motive is of why Forrester killed his wife,
and Virginia Howell's basically testifying that Paige Forrester wanted a

(40:34):
divorce and if she divorced Jack, Jack would end up
with nothing. Page dies, everything goes to him, So that's
that's the whole prosecutor's case. She testifies, and then Teddy
goes up to cross examine and she just ends up
destroying Virginia and basically just kills her testimony because she

(41:00):
finds out all this information that Virginia is attracted to Jack.
We've established that Jeff Bridge's a good looking guy in
this and she's been calling him. And Teddy ends up
with this piece of evidence where Page writes a note
to Jack about getting away together and that his wife

(41:24):
would never know, and Teddy takes the letter, it makes
Page read it in court. Yeah, great, and it's basically established.
Once Page found out about the note, because Jack gave
it to her, they stopped talking, So she has no
idea if Paige's really going to divorce Jack, or if

(41:44):
she had even put the paperwork in. So I just
thought how the prosecutor thought they had something in the bag.
And then Teddy just turns the whole thing around and
squashes it.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
Was cool. I'm like, all right, there's one point for
the defendant. What's the prosecutor got next up their sleeve.
It's a short scene, but.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
I like that a lot. Absolutely, It's great, well acted.
This is what we love about courtroom drama. You just
never know when it's going to swing one way or
the other. You think this is all in the prosecution's favor.
It's obviously one of their lead witnesses. They called her
for a reason. She's got all this evidence saying that
Paige Forrester was going to divorce him and these things,

(42:25):
and then it just flips completely. And then once again,
when you've seen the entire film and you look back
on this, it seems clear that Jack knew, most likely
Virginia Howell was going to be called as a witness,
and he was ready with the letter that she had
sent him, and knew obviously that Virginia was in love

(42:45):
with him and would probably make up some or fabricate
something against him, you know, in the way that she
is a bit of a jilted lover that she. I mean,
they were never actually lovers, but you know what I mean.
So yeah, it's smart performances. When Glenn Close does her
thing as the attorney presenting the evidence, there's tactics always right,

(43:10):
and the way she uses her body or voice and
approaches Virginia, then gives her that letter and has her
read it, and then has her specifically read how she
signed it as Ginny instead of Virginia. It's a nice
little cap on a nice little period. Love it.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Good stuff, man, love Ginny. So here we go with
prosecutor's next witness. Her name is Eileen Avery, and she
was the last minute witness that Teddy had no idea
that Fenn has had no idea about. And here we go.
This is where Jeff Bridges of Glenn Close. Everything's in
their face. So they call Eileen to the stand, and

(43:49):
of course Teddy turns to Jack and asks who this is,
and you can tell right away by Jack's expression, fuck,
I'm in trouble and all He responds with a friend
and Cheddy's who is it. She's like just a friend.
Aleen's on stage and the prosecutor grills her, what is
your relationship with Jack? Forrester, and she confesses that she

(44:14):
was Jack's lover two years ago, which only puts her
twenty four at the time. And we keep doing these
cutaways to Glenn Close Teddy Barnes, and she has her
hand over her mouth and she's intently listening, but you
can see in her eyes so they're literally glazed over
that she's going almost on the verge of tears because

(44:35):
at this point she's already in a relationship with Jack,
and she's told Jack multiple times, do not lie to me,
or I will drop this case. And because of what
Eileen is saying on the stand, she knows she's in trouble.
She's in trouble, and she doesn't know what to do.

(44:57):
She doesn't have anything prepared for her. And I think
they cut away to her like two or three times.
And I just love Glenn Close's reaction to this. It's amazing,
Like if she could turn and punch Jack in the
face right there in the courtroom, she would, but she
can't because I would give away his guilt. And how

(45:19):
she just has to say stay super reserved. And then
they asked us she has any questions. She's like, no
questions and walks out, and now everything has changed. From
that point they were ahead of the last witness. Now
they're down. It was almost a two point swinging there
with just establishing the fact that Jack has had an
affair with someone else really hurts her case. And it's

(45:41):
a really small scene, but Bridges gives an amazing look
and Glenn Close gives some amazing looks. I was like, Oh,
that's awesome. And really neither of them say anything at
those points, and they're the highlights of that scene.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
Well described. It's great. The actress that plays I Lean
Avery stunning. She's gorgeous. Oh my god, she's beautiful. I
was like, yeah, she's young, but I can see how
that would happen two pretty people getting together. Anyway, You're
right a thousand percent. Glenn Close in this scene, silent acting.
All the silent acting and reacting she does in this

(46:17):
film is wonderful. Hand to the mouth, it's in her eyes.
You don't know if she's gonna scream or she's gonna cry,
but she's stoic and she's waiting because she just has
to take it. And it's awful because, like I said,
and you mentioned, it's the swing, they were up, now
they're down. Now they're losing, and it only gets worse

(46:38):
because here she's taken a hit. He's you know, the
defense has taken it. Jack Forrester's taking a big hit.
Doesn't look good for him. He's had an affair, he
lied about it to her. She's pissed at him. That's
not good. So it's a great, great short scene, great moment,
and it leads right into my next favorite scene because
we're going to continue here in the courtroom and it

(46:59):
all gets worse for them. Are you ready to move on, Gecko?
The prosecution calls Bobby Slade. Yeah, their bad day only
gets worse, I mean the defense, because the prosecution calls
this scumbag Bobby Slade, who shows up mentioning that he

(47:20):
worked at the Hillsboro Racket Club or country club where
Paige Forrester was a member as well as Jack, and
Bobby Slade had an affair with Page. So now not
only do we know that Jack was having an affair,
but Page was having an affair with this character, Bobby Slade.

(47:41):
Who's this. He's a handsome, like thick, blonde haired guy.
Was he like a tennis instructor or tennis player anyway,
would play with Paige and they engage in an affair.
Now we hear that Bobby Slade and Paige Forrester, the
deceased wife of Jack Forster. We had some pillow talk

(48:01):
during this affair, and Page said some things and was
leaning towards leaving Jack, as well as talking about how
she knew that Jack would manipulate women uses looks and
also one point in particular, how he would always take
women to see the horses and ride with them. And

(48:21):
now this hits Teddy Barnes even deeper because Teddy has
engaged in an affair herself with her client, Jack Forster,
before the trial even began, and she's involved. And so
not only now has Jack been lying to her about
the affairs he's had, so on a professional level this
works against their case, but now because she personally has

(48:44):
fallen for Jack, this is Teddy. And Jack used that
tactic of taking her out to the stables and showing
her the horses, and they've gone riding together. She's like, oh,
he does this with all the ladies, and now you
see it again on her face. Like you said, Bill,
it's all in her reactions. So I like the scene
because of that, because it doubles down on just all

(49:04):
the shit that's hitting the fan for the defense team.
And I like the scumbag Bobby Slate, like I mentioned earlier,
I like that actor. I thought he's a he's a
real dick, and he plays that part to a t.
I think only William Zapka could maybe have matched that performance,
like he's just that Oh that's true. Yeah, you know,
just kind of like that. Oh, I can see he

(49:25):
was that prick in high school. Handsome guy jock but
kind of full of shit and just kind of a
just and it takes advantage of women, you know kind
of thing. He plays it. He plays that pretty well.
So what I want to get into is the fact
that there's a classic moment in between this when now

(49:47):
because they had such a terrible day and she feels
lied to by Jack and I said, our Teddy wants
to recruit accuse herself as the lead attorney and she
wants to get out of this. But who shows up
her lead investigator, Robert Loja Sam, who presents some new
evidence that I love it, you know. He shows up
with the evidence against Bobby Slade that might actually turn
things around here, the swinging of the pendulum. So she

(50:09):
sticks with the case and they go back and she
recalls Bobby Slade to the stand and reveals that not
only had he worked at the Hillsboro Racket Club, but
but prior to that, he worked at a club in
Santa Cruz where he was summarily dismissed because supposedly he
was selling sexual favors. Doesn't look good. Then he moves

(50:31):
on to his new job at Hillsboro where he meets
Paige Forester and they engage in unfair and now slowly
but surely, Teddy's getting the upper hand on Bobby Slade
and says, okay, so where did you have sex with Paige?
And he says, well, we hit sex here here, there,
and also at the Baker Beach House that's where the
murder took place. Doesn't look good for Bobby now, and

(50:54):
then Teddy goes even further and says, what kind of
sex did you have with Paige? Was it rough sex?
And Bobby slowly sees, uh, oh, now she's placed him
at the Baker beach house and they were having rough sex.
This isn't looking good, and Bobby's like, you can tell
on his face, He's like, oh, crap, am I being

(51:15):
framed for this murder or at least made to look
as a suspect in this case. And when Teddy's gets
really up close to him and says, you know, what
kind of sex did you have? And was it rough?
He turns to her and says under his breath, you
fucking bitch. And that's the dagger, because we know as
an audience in this case, the word bitch was written

(51:39):
in Page's blood above her body at the crime scene.
So now Teddy's got him. She insists that he repeat
what he just said. She's like, what did you just
call me? What did you just call me? You called
me a bitch? And he's like yeah, And so it's
just great. Those are the moments built. These are the
moments in these courtroom dramas that you you're looking forward to,

(52:01):
that you want where you want to see it. Go back, Oh,
what's the evidence that Sam got against Bobby Slade to
turn this around and make Bobby look bad? How is
Teddy going to use that evidence and then take it
even further to make Bobby look bad. It's great, and
it moves on into I'm just I'm cheating on combining
scenes too. Then she actually recalls this character, Fabreezy that's

(52:21):
his last name, who was a janitor at the club
and had discovered the hunting knife that was used in
the murder in Jack Forrester's locker at the club, however,
and this was like, this was the slam dunk for
the prosecution for Breezy with the knife, had found the
knife and etc. That was its circumstantial evidence. But this
is what got Jack Forster arrested to begin with. And

(52:42):
then we see Teddy working her magic when she recalls
for Breezy because they found they went back even further.
She had Sam as the investigator, go back even further
found another member at the club who possessed a hunting
knife and happened to keep it in his locker the
roh right behind Jack's locker. Jack's locker was number one

(53:03):
twenty two. This other gentleman at the club, his locker
number was two twenty two. And now she takes this
too Fabreezy on the stand and says, is it possible
that you saw this knife in Locker two twenty two,
and he breaks down and says, yeah, it's oh yeah,
of course it's possible. It's possible, and then that's it
reasonable doubt. It's gonna be in the jury's minds and

(53:24):
that's the that's the shit. I like, man, it's like, wow, Okay,
defense did their work. Teddy's a great lawyer. Watching Glenn
Close move around the courtroom as an actress, as a performer,
as a lawyer, wonderful. How she lays out the evidence,
watching Jeff Bridges react the entire time behind the table
of the defense, and then she just she chicks corners

(53:46):
these witnesses and you're like, damn, that's just this flipped
real quick, and it looks like Jack just might get
off for this murder. So yeah, I love those I
love those moments. Those really worked for me.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
Yeah, I think I like the prosecutor is interviewing Slade
and giving the testimonies, like, who does this hurt more?
Is it hurting the defense or is it hurting Teddy?
Because he's almost telling Teddy how Jack gets women in bed,
and she's like, oh yeah, I just went through all
those steps with him exactly exactly.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
But the fact that very personal.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
He divulges that Page wants to leave her husband, so
another reason for him to commit the murder.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
Right.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
I think all the witness stuff really worked a lot
throughout this movie.

Speaker 2 (54:36):
Yeah, just fun to see the back and forth. You know,
they had a terrible day and it looks like they're
on the losing end of things. How are they going
to swing it back to their favor and they do?

Speaker 1 (54:44):
Yeah? All kay, Let's move on to Swiss cheese and
complaint department and what do we call swiss cheese?

Speaker 2 (54:55):
Because although this movie is delicious, it does have serrated
stab holes.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yes, if it doesn't have those serena at stabholes, we
just file a complaint with the complaint department. All right, Jason,
what do you have for swiss cheezer complaints?

Speaker 2 (55:07):
You know I started off with this, it's more of
a comment. When Teddy agrees to take the Forester case,
she first meets with Forrester. There's a scene where she
meets with Forrester and his lawyers James Karen and the
scenes you know, as Andrew, one of the main guys
in Forster's law firm. She says to Forrester, you lie
to me or I think you're guilty, I drop the case.

(55:31):
The law firm guys do call her out. They're like, well,
that's unprofessional, and I was like, yeah, that is. I
was just surprised that she said that out loud. I'd
kind of admire her for that. But the attorney agree
with it or not, is supposed to be indifferent. It
doesn't matter whether she thinks he's guilty or not. She
has a job to do, and that's to defend him

(55:52):
and try to win the case. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
I agree with that too. I think part of it
is she almost feels like our hands are tied that
she has to take this case, and I think maybe
she says that just to see if she can get
some kind of reaction out of Jack.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Sure, and to her credit, she does say when she
and I have this is my I'll tie this in.
When she goes to meet Jack for the first time
at his home, she does tell him it doesn't matter
whether or not she thinks he's guilty, that she has
to win. It's just that she switches it. Then when
they actually have the official meeting when she takes the case.
It's kind of interesting, but it's funny too, because I

(56:30):
had this comment. When she goes to see Jack for
the first time, she pulls up in like the station wagon.
Sure her kids are in the back of the car.
She goes and conducts. She just leaves the kids in
the car. She goes and has this entire meeting.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
There's a shout of them outside having catch because I
thought the same thing. I'm like, what the hell happened
to the kids? And then outside, Yeah, having a catch?

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Right, that's good. Okay.

Speaker 1 (56:51):
I was like, I didn't catch it the first time.
I think it was the second time I watched that.
I finally because I was like, yeah, what the hell
happens to the kids? So I was really looking for it.

Speaker 2 (56:59):
And then I saw him out kids.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
I know, meeting can't afford a babysitter. Come on, this
could possibly be Swiss cheese for me, because how does
this case even go to trial? They have next to
no evidence. Good point. Good point that proves Jack killed
his wife. No one saw a knife. Yeah, that might
have been the murder weapon. Maybe it's just watching too

(57:22):
much Law and Order. Yeah, I don't think we'll get
through pre trial. So if there's any lawyers out there
that are listening, let us know what it even got
to trial based on what they had at that point.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
This is something I've learned by listening to too much
true crime drama podcasts and watching too much Dayline. Is
that in the past, back in the good old days,
during trials, eyewitness testimony was given a lot more credit.
Correct wait, and over the years now, eyewitness testimony has

(57:56):
been proven to be shaky at best. So I agree
with you because I thought the same thing. Like, you're
just going to go with that. The one guy who
says he thought he saw this knife in Forrester's locker,
he remembers that specifically he thought about it at that time.
It's like, well, it's been proven time and time again
when we our memories play tricks on us. And because

(58:18):
I've done it, I think I have a wonderful memory,
and I'll remember all kinds of things and then go
back and like, let's say it's my childhood home and
I walked through my childhood home and I'm like, oh,
I had these images reversed. The fireplace was on that side,
Like how did I Why do I remember it differently? Correct?
You just do your mind does that to you. You
go back to a certain scene where something happened and

(58:38):
everything's reversed, Like, wow, I remember it so differently. I
was wrong. So I think at maybe at the time,
that type of testimony or witness testimony would have carried
some weight. But yeah, you're right, it would have been
broken apart, Like if that's all they got to go on,
that's not enough. It would you're right, in the pre

(58:58):
trial stuff, it would have been they would have destroyed him.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Yeah, it's like, there's no way they're gonna win.

Speaker 2 (59:04):
They got nothing. It's just not enough, m flimsy to
begin with that. So I'm gonna just talk about my
main issue here again. It was the initial development of
the relationship between Teddy and Jack. I didn't feel like
there was enough time for it to simmer to develop.
Bills made some good counter points to this, but it

(59:24):
happened way too quickly as obviously unprofessional on Teddy's part
because of the conflict of interest. We know, we do
know she's divorced, but it's not I didn't feel like
she was that vulnerable to be susceptible to Jeff Bridge's charm.
But he's a beautiful man and he's very try. I
don't know, but I just feel Glenn Close as an

(59:45):
actress has such a strength about her, and it just
made her seem very weak very quickly. For me. That's
my opinion. Had it been more of a boiling pot romance,
it would have worked better for me. Also, the simple
fact that he had just lost his wife to to
three months earlier and seems to be really okay with
engaging in this with her. Was like, Wow, that's pretty quick.

(01:00:08):
He just thought that too, his wife in a brutal murner.
So from her perspective, her character's perspective, wouldn't she think
that as well? Be like a little creeped out by that,
being like, I don't know about you. You just lost
your wife, now you're hitting on me. I don't know.
He's pretty subtle about it. Again, it is Jeff Bridges,
so we all grieve in our own ways. Also, towards

(01:00:31):
the end of the film, and this is still on
the point of their relationship, I felt like I missed
something in the relationship between because obviously there is a
divisive situation a moment here between the two because when
they have their shitty day in court, Teddy is personally
hurt and she wants to get off the case, and
she knows that Jack lied to her and manipulated her.

(01:00:54):
Then because the case turns and it goes well for
her and him, because she gets the evidence from Sam, etcetera,
and gets the better of these witnesses. She recalls all
of a sudden, then at the end, she's back in
his arms. I didn't see that turn between the two
of them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
That makes a little sense, because she really didn't want
to have anything to do with him even after he
got off.

Speaker 2 (01:01:18):
Now you're gonna go jump into the bed with him again,
you trust him again after the lies and the betrayal
throughout the case. Those are my thoughts regarding them.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
Yeah, I don't know how to answer that. I have
to be in her shoes to be honest.

Speaker 2 (01:01:32):
I don't understand. Why can't you just put yourself in
a female prosecutor's shoes in a relationship with Jeff Bridges.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:40):
The Dead Maid, No, that was exactly what I had next.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
There's so many characters in this movie that just disappear
like you did. The quote from the psychologist, So I'm like,
wouldn't they bring him right and testify at some point too?
It just felt like there's a lot of people that
just Lance hendrix Son, where'd you go?

Speaker 2 (01:01:56):
Dude? Completely disappeared? I thought the same.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
Thing, but the main thing because I'm like, Okay, he's
on trial for murder, and it keeps saying like he's not.
It's not double murder, it's just pages. I was going
to save that, I think for an additional question. I
have some I have a lot of questions. How does
that even work in a legal system when there was
a double murder Jeff Bridges is the accused, would there

(01:02:21):
be a concurrent sort of trial or would it then
the trial of Vensuela's murder occur after that? Was he
the main because he would be the main suspect in that.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
Too, wouldn't he? Right? That's why I was trying to
figure out, like, I don't know how that works.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
Why the end would make sense because when she finds
out that he's a murderer, she tells him and then
he goes to try to kill her. I'm like, is
it because he can be retried for the murder of
the maid? Is that the only reason why he's trying
to take her out? Because even if she knows he
did it, she can't do anything about it. He's already

(01:02:57):
been tried and found not guilty.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
Yeah, double jeopardy, you can't. But then there's the separate
case of Consuela, the maid's murders.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
So yeah, I don't know, right, That's why I was
trying to I'm like, why is there no mention of
the trial that there's was two murders committed? It's always
his focus on page I'm like, there's this poor maid
who had family.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
I'm just gonna say, where's her family? Like, why aren't
they crying out going justice for.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
Yeah, you would think they'd be in the court regardless.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
Yeah, they needed that, they needed that. She really gets
lost in this. I did have an issue with that, Okay. Yeah.
Also at the very end, after Teddy and has won
the case and Jack has been declared innocent, she gets
very self righteous and makes a public statement to the

(01:03:46):
reporters right there, immediately after the conclusion of the case,
to the journalists, to the reporters there, and she admits
to the evidence that was withheld in the previous Henry
Styles case and places guilt upon herself and d A
Krasny right there in the corner, he's standing right opposite her,

(01:04:08):
calls him out in front of the press, and I
got a lot of questions about, like, why would you
do that in that public environment, because now I have
a question what's going to happen to your career? But
I understand she's trying to relieve herself of the guilt
or she's trying to do the right thing right, trying
to do the right thing, because I understand that, But

(01:04:29):
to do it that way I had a real problem with.
And then on top of it, I had no idea
why Krasney stood there the whole time and took it
and why didn't he just leave immediately as he knew
she was about to say all these things like just
get the hell out of dot, but he just stands there.
I was confused.

Speaker 1 (01:04:45):
Yeah, that scene was very weird for me. First off,
I applaud the fact you keep saying Henry and not Harry,
because I keep want to say Harry styles oh every time.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
You got me Oh, yeah, me too? Is it right, though?
Is it Henry or Harry? Hopefully it's I think it's
I think it's Henry because I always wanted to say
Harry as well.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
Yeah, she basically just ruined her career. Cranzy's career, which
she wanted to do, and probably she probably ruined Sam's
career also, even though I should yes spurn it on
the bridges and then the fact, why the hell is
Henry's mom even there in the.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
Courtroom, I thought the same thing was like that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
I found that weird too, Like, your son died, you're grieving,
you hate Teddy with the passion. I didn't get that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
It came.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Justified.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Yeah, okay, that was called cheeseball. We're good now, We're
good now, you and I No, I think her character
comes off a bit self righteous in that moment. I
think it's a poor decision to do that in a
public forum like that, and she's burning everybody, she's burning herself, cranzy.
There's just a better way to handle that, if she's

(01:05:56):
just trying to do the right thing and relieve guilt.
I had a problem with the way that was done.

Speaker 1 (01:06:02):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
Why wouldn't Jack Forrester get rid of the typewriter?

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Oh yeah, that made no sense either.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
He kept the typewriter, Just get rid of it, destroy it.
You're you're cleared, you're innocent. I mean, we know eventually
that he's the killer, and he's guilty, but I'm just
looking back going. Man, you were so smart about everything.
Why leave any piece of evidence leading to your guilt behind?

Speaker 1 (01:06:28):
Get rid of exactly? Wasn't even a good typewriter that
I just had a real problem with that. You should
have gave it to Tom Hanks since he likes clectop writers.

Speaker 2 (01:06:36):
Tom Hanks or Chris Vllnziano. Where you go?

Speaker 1 (01:06:40):
Okay, trying to move on to Hey, it's that actor.
So in this segment we spotlight a character actor you
have seen in many other films, an actor making their
big screen debut, or an actor that makes an uncredited cameo.
Say it's an actor. Do we choose this week?

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
Well, Bill Bant this week for our Hay, it's that actor.
We have chosen Michael Dorn. He plays the character of
Dan his Lynn and if you blink you'll miss him
sort of. He does have a couple of good lines
which I'll mention, but he is playing this character. They
gave him a name, Dan his Linn, but he is

(01:07:17):
the polygraph technician. What would you call that role? Yeah,
sounds good in polygraph conductor impistrator? Didn't you so funny?
I'll be very transparent here when I saw his name
and the credits, I thought for sure he must have
been the other African American character, Greg Arnold, the assistant

(01:07:37):
to the DA, because I was watching that character throughout
the film going I know that voice, he looks familiar.
Who is that actor? But of course I was totally
mistaken because that character was portrayed by William Allen Young,
who also has been in a ton of things, including
District Nine, one of my favorite sci fi movies of
all time. So wait, Michael Dorn is the polygraph guy.
And I went back to that scene, and sure enough,

(01:08:01):
we get a mustached, mustachioed Michael Dorn in his feature
film debut. He's only got a few lines, but I
like this one. When he's talking about the polygraph that
Jack Forster had to take. He says, in regards to
the results, it's a straight solid graph. The machine loves
him he's telling the truth. Or he's the kind of
ice cube even the machine can't melt. Love it. I

(01:08:25):
love that line. He's the kind of ice cube that
even the machine can't melt. So. Michael Dorn a Texas
born actor, standing tall at six foot three, His career
dates back to the mid sixties, with an appearance on
Days of Our Lives in nineteen seventy six. He's uncredited
as Apollo Creed's bodyguard in the first Rocky film. He
gets his first regular TV series role as police officer

(01:08:48):
Jebediah Turner on sixty episodes of Chips from seventy seven
to eighty two and now Yes we Are into our
eighties Snapshot. He does a lot more episodic television. He
does have his debut here in Jagged Edge. He does
episodes of Hunter, Give Me a Break, Punky Brewster, Falcon Crest,
and then of course. He is best known for playing

(01:09:09):
Lieutenant Commander Wharf in the Star Trek franchise. He's the
first Klingon character to be part of a television series'
main cast. Dorn played the character of Wharf regularly from
nineteen eighty seven to two thousand and two, appearing in
four films and two hundred and seventy two at television episodes.
Dorn has had more episode appearances than any other actor

(01:09:29):
in the franchise's main cast. He goes on to do
more TV and film after Star Trek, although he does
a bunch of Star Trek spinoff work of course, so
those numbers are a little skewed. You can find different
numbers as far as how many episodes he was in
technically of Star Trek, a lot of Star Trek spinoff work.
As I mentioned, he does a lot of voiceover work
for video games and animated films and TV series because

(01:09:54):
he's just got that great, deep voice. Other mentionables much
later on. He does the Santa Claus two as sand Man.
That was in two thousand and two, the Santa Claus
three in two thousand and six. I mentioned those because
the Santa Claus films are big hits there. He works
constantly big video game titles such as Mass Effect and
StarCraft doing that voice over work. He did seven episodes

(01:10:15):
of Star Trek Picard in twenty twenty three, and yeah,
just recently, three episodes of the animated series Invincible from
that was from twenty one to twenty five, voicing the
character of Battlebeast. Michael Dorn a little trivia. He's an
accomplished pilot and the owner of several aircraft, has flown
with the Blue Angels and the United States Air Force

(01:10:35):
Precision Flight Team. Also at a science fiction convention, he
told the audience that he thinks of Wharf as Hamlet,
and over the years performing the role of Wharf, his
voice grew deeper a result of inflecting a base tone
for his character. He also developed a mild condition for
his years of wearing his next generation makeup, for which

(01:10:58):
the departments use a different type for alien effects. His
quote would be, when you're on a series, it's tough
to go on and do something else afterward. If you're smart,
save your money and you can wait out the bad
times until something else comes along. Michael Doran is our
hates that actor this week.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
Yeah, Michael Doran love him as Wharf in the Startler series.
Multiple Star Trek series has been on outstanding. Well, it's
amazing because that character is a kling on. He brings
great humor to it, and I think that's what makes
the character so endearing to Star Trek fans without question.
I just finally got around to watching but Card and

(01:11:35):
the third season is amazing and he's hilarious as well.
All right, time move on to facts and trivia. What
are some facts in trivia? We are actually be able
to find about Jagged Edge because it was.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
Rough, surprisingly, very little to go on here, but according
to Wikipedia, there's only one paragraph in the production segment,
and according to writer Joe Esterhas, the film originated with
producer Martin Ransohoff, who wanted to make a courtroom drum

(01:12:08):
in the vein of Anatomy of a Murder. The film
was originally written as a vehicle for Jane Fonda, who
turned down the project. This is according to Eshas that
producer Ransa Hooff was unimpressed with the casting of Glenn
Close and tried to make her reshoot a sex scene
so that he could watch her. I guess sounds a
little shady, but yeah. According to Joe Estruss and his

(01:12:30):
book Hollywood Animal, producer Ranshoff was against the casting of
Glenn Close, saying she was too ugly for the part.
Gloss eventually heard about this and said she didn't want
ransa Hoff on the set during the time she would
shoot her scenes, and director Richard Markuan stood by her
side and sent Ransa Hooff away, and infuriated, Ransoff went
to the studio heads trying to get Close and Markwan

(01:12:53):
fired from the picture, but the studio denied the action,
stating they were pleased with their work in the film.

Speaker 1 (01:12:59):
Yeah, behind the scene drama with this one.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
And I want to say, I recall seeing an interview
with Glenn Close kind of talking about that that's tough man,
because I think she's a beautiful woman and she's such
a presence and really good in this movie.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
So.

Speaker 1 (01:13:16):
Joe Estrahause originally titled the screenplay Hearts of Fire, and
Columbia Pictures disliked the title and decided it had to
be changed. They assign a secretary at the studio to
go through the script and effort to come up with
another title. The secretary found Jagged Edge in the descripture
of the murder weapon and decided that that would be

(01:13:37):
a good title for the film, and it stuck.

Speaker 2 (01:13:40):
Yep. I thought this was interesting. The film Physical Evidence
from nineteen eighty nine with Burt Reynolds and Teresa Russell
was originally conceived as the sequel to Jagged Edge, which
was meant to have Glenn Close and Robert Lojia reprise
their roles. The story was about a private investigator framed
for murder and the female lawyer who defends him. The
project was developed at Columbia Pictures, but then head of

(01:14:03):
production Guy Mechlwaine was replaced by David Putnam, who, according
to producer Martin Ranshoff, said that he did not want
to make sequels, so Ransohoff decided to turn the script
into an original story. She became physical evidence.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
Yeah, I have to go back and watch that one.

Speaker 2 (01:14:20):
I vaguely remember being and urban folklore exists that suggests
there was an alternate ending that alters the identity of
the killer. An alternate ending does not exist, but the
original ending was indeed refilmed is When the initial release
was out, the audience complained that the face of the
killer was not clearly shown. In the original release. The

(01:14:42):
unmasked killer's face was shown for eighteen frames that's less
than a second. Another nine seconds was later spliced into
the corrected version, clearly resolving the mystery and showing the killer.

Speaker 1 (01:14:55):
Okay, let's move on to box office. So Jagged Edge
was released on October fourth, nineteen eighty five, and one
and twenty five.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
Theaters on an estimated budget of.

Speaker 1 (01:15:04):
Ten million dollars. It would gross forty point five million
dollars domestically. The movie would debut number two at the
box office, behind the debut of Commando starring Arn Schwarzenegger.
Jacket Edge would actually capture the number one spot in
its fourth week of release. It would only stay in
the top ten for another six weeks after that. Jacket

(01:15:25):
Edge would be the twenty second highest grossing movie released
in nineteen eighty five, ahead of Commando, which was twenty fifth.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
Moving on to reviews.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
When growing up in the eighties, we would watch at
the movies with Geen Cisco and Roger Eber to hear
the reviews and watch clips of upcoming movies. Their review
of Jacket Edge was unanimous two thumbs up. Gene called
the movie both a terrific court drama and a scary thriller.
Roger really enjoyed the performances of Jeff Bridges, Glenn Close,

(01:15:54):
and Peter Coyote. Rotten Tomatoes vis it a Tomatometers score
of seventy nine percent, with a Pop Coordinator's score of
fifty nine percent and also has an IMDb rating of
six point five. So this would take us to additional
thoughts and questions. What are some additional thoughts and questions
you have about Jagged Edge?

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
I had a funny question for you. Yes, have you
ever known anyone a male friend, family member, whomever that
was named John or Jack, and that that name was
just interchangeable at times. People would call them by either
John or Jack. It's done in this film because the

(01:16:37):
lead is Jeff Bridges. His character's name is Jack Forrester,
but they call him John once or twice throughout, and
that was a common thing back in the day. The
first time I've ever heard of that those names being
interchangeable was with President Kennedy. People you know John Kennedy,
John F. Kennedy. You would hear them, you know, he
was like nicknamed Jacket. Sometimes people just call hi Jack Kennedy.

(01:16:59):
That Jack is nickname for John in a way, does
that make sense? Have you ever known anyone personally? What
do you call them? Okay? Cool?

Speaker 1 (01:17:06):
Most of the time called him Jack, but I would
hear a cult both ways.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
I wonder where that originated. I don't know. Whatever works.

Speaker 1 (01:17:14):
So at the conclusion of the movie, when we find
out that Jack killed or John killed his wife. This
made this scene earlier in the movie not make a
lot of sense to me, is when Jack dumps his
wife's ashes into the ocean and then drops the roses.

Speaker 2 (01:17:33):
I had comment on that as well. Who's going to
see that?

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
And you just brutally murdered your wife, So why I
go through all the pomp and circumstances to do that?
Like I could see if he was with family members,
but it's pretty much established he's alone on the boat
thousand percent.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
I went back and saw the scene again, beautiful, beautifully
shot out there on the bat with that golden gate
and the fog in the background. It's donning. But I
also said, okay, so wait a minute. We know he's
the killer. So he's a monster. He's a psychopath and
a vicious killer. So this though, that particular scene portrays

(01:18:15):
him as a someone that actually cared about his wife,
and that doesn't track because he's by himself. So I
was like, wow, this scene is clearly just for the audience.

Speaker 1 (01:18:27):
Right, don't just trying to manipulate us.

Speaker 2 (01:18:30):
It's manipulating the audience, and that is all making us
feel like, oh he no way, he wouldn't have murdered
his wife. Look how he's being so sensitive and careful
about dropping her ashes into the bay and then throwing
the roses onto the water on top of that, It
was like, okay, there's he's he really cared for her
and misses her and is grieving now. But now then,

(01:18:52):
when you look back after the end, you're like, that
doesn't No, that doesn't make sense. He would would have
done that, and I liked that. I didn't like that.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
I didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:19:04):
I didn't. I doesn't track it doesn't know. Speaking of
like questions you have regarding this particular case and the
events that happened within the murder and things unfolded clues
the notes specifically, let's imagine an alternate version where Teddy
doesn't find the typewriter. Do they ever try to track

(01:19:28):
down the covert informant who sent those notes? Would they care?
I don't think they kind of like, then you just
leave it alone, like somebody, some rando out there just
sent these notes in that somehow knew about the woman
that had been previously attacked by this killer, and things
like that. This movie got my wheels turning about the

(01:19:48):
legality of some of this and what would be then
pursued afterwards the case just overshut closed. What do we
do about Consuela's murder? All that stuff? I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:19:59):
Yeah, I would always want to know, but I don't
know how much I would pursue it because you got
the result you want it, so you're happy about that.
But I think it would always be back in the
back of my mind, like who how did I get
this stuff? But how would I track it down?

Speaker 2 (01:20:15):
Yeah, that there is this person out there that knew
that Jack Forrester was innocent, And it doesn't mean that
particular informant was involved in the murder in any way.
They just happened to be a silent fan of Jack's trying.

Speaker 1 (01:20:33):
To help him anyway, all right, But I do like
that scene when they find out about the other attempt
at murder and Crancy's all pissed and basically admits that
he pulled the case so no one could find out
about it. And I'm just like, you can't do that.
You sign up a bitch.

Speaker 2 (01:20:51):
Mm hmm. That was cool. That just leads into my
think because when all the information is when Teddy reveals
the corruption to the reporters at the end of the
previous Harry's almost Henry styles case, like she does burn
it down. Like what do you think happens after this?
Like they all lose their jobs, right.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
Correct, Well, yeah, they all lose their license.

Speaker 2 (01:21:13):
Yeah, they have to Disbard. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:21:16):
So during the At the Movies review, Roger Ebert suggests
it that the audience should never have seen the killer's
face and then leave it up to the audience to
decide who the killer was. Would that have worked for you?

Speaker 2 (01:21:31):
I don't think so. We gotta know that sounds like
that would be the end, like the foreign film version
of this, like it just like a real artistic choice
at the end, like we're gonna leave it ambiguous or
you just have to come up with your own interpretation.
I'm not a fan of that personally. If you don't
see the killer's face and you just see the reaction

(01:21:53):
of Loja and Glenn close looking at the killer, that
might give it away, then that's interesting. I would like
to see it. I would watch it and then maybe
make a determination, have a stronger opinion. But no, I vote.
I guess I want to see the killer's face.

Speaker 1 (01:22:08):
When they did the review, it was the eighteen frame version, right,
I did read it. You really couldn't tell, And there
were so many people that were writing in like, well,
who did do it? They couldn't tell because it was
so fast, and I think they spoiled it. On a
future episode. I didn't watch it to see it, but
I just read that they did that. But I did
think it was funny that Roger brought that up from

(01:22:29):
the get go.

Speaker 2 (01:22:30):
I need to know too, the whole film is leading
up to that point. That's the culmination. I mean, it's
like presumed innocence. It's the same thing. Can you imagine
not ever knowing what really right? The real killer is
I'd want my money back. Well, all right, Bill Bant, Okay,
got to ask. Then let's go over it. Best courtroom
drama slash legal thrillers from the eighties. Just give me

(01:22:54):
your opinion, don't there's a lot? Okay, Yeah, I'm sticking
to the eighties. The accused Kelly McGillis m Jody Foster,
Thank You. Suspect was Share Legal Eagles rip guy Robert Redford,
The Verdict mister Paul Newman from the Hip the Star

(01:23:15):
Chamber with Michael Douglas. Breaker Morant hadn't heard of this one.
It's an Australian film, but it's on all the lists.
Whose life is it? Anyway? I have a personal connection
to that, which is also a play at the University
of Miami. I was actually barred from the Ring Theater
as a result of my participation or lack thereof. How
about a Soldier's Story, Oh yeah, we were just talking

(01:23:38):
about that one, of course, Bill Bant. You know, we
posted that A Cry in the Dark Meryl Streep the
ding go to My True Believer with James Woods, and
then even though it doesn't count, it just misses the cut.
There is Presumed Innocent, which is in nineteen ninety and
so same kind of fed off of the eighties courtroom

(01:24:00):
films in their style.

Speaker 1 (01:24:01):
I think I'm gonna have to go with the Verdict.

Speaker 2 (01:24:06):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 1 (01:24:06):
I think the big surprise. I just watched it recently
because I saw it was on streaming. I don't know
if it still is from the hip with Judd Nelson. Yeah,
Like the first half of it is almost a comedy,
and the second half gets super serious and like, holy crap,
this is the same movie. That One's kind of interesting.
I have not seen Breaker Morant.

Speaker 2 (01:24:26):
I haven't seen a lot of these. I'm ashamed to
admit I've never seen the Verdict. That's probably no surprise
to anyone, but that is a that's a big one.
I think a lot of people would probably choose just
from what I've heard and I've heard podcasts about etc.
Legal legals. I remember seeing and thinking it was just okay, right.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
Yeah, because I think that was like Ivan Reightman's first
movie that didn't knock it out of the park. But
I always love the Rod Stewart song from it, which
Rod Stewart doesn't even like, Love Touch awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:24:55):
Did Jody Foster win? She won for the Accused? Does
she win Best Actress?

Speaker 1 (01:24:59):
Trying to definitely nominate it? Yeah, maybe she won for that?
And then on the Silence of the Lambs that's the one.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
Too, Yes she did, she won for the accust Okay,
well that's all I got for additional thoughts and questions.

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
All right, let's move on to our rating. So, on
a scale of one to five, hunting knives, would you
give Jagged Edge?

Speaker 2 (01:25:21):
I'm gonna get a strong three point five, a three
and a half hunting knives. Chop one of those knives
in half, put it against three other knives three and
a half. So yeah, I enjoyed this. I remembered liking
it so watching it again. Just love the cast, love
the chemistry between the actors. I think there's some real
smart framework here. The framing of this, how it's laid out,

(01:25:45):
the courtroom, the flipping of the witnesses, and the you
know that pendulum swing. Who's who's going to be caught
up in this and who is the real killer, the
who done it of it all and just watching you know,
it is a film that we've just mentioned a couple times.
It's fun to then think about afterwards and play it back,
you know, play the tape back. You go, oh, okay,

(01:26:05):
if he is the killer, then he must have done
this that and the other thing. Wow, that's manipulation and calculation,
and that's kind of interesting to put it all together
that way. Robert Loja stand out for me. Always fun
to see him at deserving of the Academy Award nomination.
And yeah, as far as legal thrillers, I enjoyed it.
I didn't think it was great. I think you know,

(01:26:27):
we didn't owe and complain. We didn't talk about the ending,
did we did we not? We didn't get into the
complaints about the ending. No, I did. Okay, all right, sorry, yeah, yeah,
So it's it is flawed in moments. I would appreciated
more relationship development at the beginning to buy into the
fact that this smart professional woman and Teddy Barnes would

(01:26:51):
fall so quickly for Jack Forrester. But credit to Jeff
Bridges and his charm and his characters charm, I should
say so. Yeah, I think three and a half is
right where it belongs in the rating system here for me.
So now I don't have anything else to say. It
was fun, it was good, not great. I put it.
This is how I phrased it. It's a level above serviceable.

(01:27:14):
At first I was not fair to it, saying in
my notes, this is a serviceable legal thriller, but it's
a step above that. It's a little better than that.
That's where I fall on this. Gotcha.

Speaker 1 (01:27:27):
Yeah, I give it a strong three. I really enjoyed
the performances in this, but the ending I did not
care for it at all. And I don't know, there's
just a lot of holes in the story. I'm like,
would this ever really go to trial? I don't think
it ever would have, So you gotta it's just some
story elements I don't like that. I just don't think works.

(01:27:49):
So everything rests on the performances of Glenn Close and
Jet Bridges, and I do think they certainly take you
through the movie and then do it well. And Robert
Lowe show with his appearances throughout work another movie. Just
fun to see a lot of actors that we haven't
seen in a while. Oh yeah, Dar's father from The

(01:28:12):
Beast Master appears in this, which was hilarious because I'm like,
you know, we were talking about The Beast Master and
I was like, I don't remember seeing this guy anything else,
and then bang, there he is in Jagged Edge.

Speaker 2 (01:28:23):
So who did he play where? So he was the.

Speaker 1 (01:28:26):
Guy in the very beginning when they're all talking in
Crancy's office. I think he's the one that says that
the weapon was Jagged Edge and then how could he
do something like that to his wife?

Speaker 2 (01:28:40):
Oh yeah, yeah, that's right in the beginning. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, God,
that's cool. Okay, I can see that now, that's cool.

Speaker 1 (01:28:47):
Yeah, that was kind of funny. I would recommend it.
Watch it just for Glenn Close and Jeff Bridge's loan
and even Robert Loja. But yeah, just just realize you're
not gonna like the ending, and there's some we story
elements throughout.

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
Yeah, I agree, I mean the ending of the part. Yeah,
I just say a lot of holes with that ending.

Speaker 1 (01:29:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:09):
Okay, so that just about does it for this week's episode.

Speaker 1 (01:29:12):
As always, we appreciate you tuning in. Don't forget to
follow us on your favorite streaming platform, leave a rating,
and drop us a review, hopefully a positive one. You
want to know more about the show, of course you do,
head over to All Eightiesmovies podcast dot com for all
the brad details. We hope you'll join us next time
as we dive into another classic from the greatest movie

(01:29:33):
decade ever in nineteen eighties. Till then, stay cool, stay retro.
Have an excellent day everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:29:40):
You still think I'm guilty? How can you defend me?
If you think I'm guilty?

Speaker 1 (01:29:45):
It happens all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
That's the way our legal system works. Thanks for staying
up with us. Goodnight world.

Speaker 1 (01:30:00):
Yeah. Jagged Eds was released on October Little let

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
Mm hmm

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