September 6, 2025 • 26 mins
The Amateurs and Experts podcast hosts, Jessica Adanich and Erica Chin interviews Steve Fischer and Rob Chadwick from the USCCA at SHOT Show 2025. They discuss the USCCA's mission to empower citizens through self-defense training and liability insurance, highlighting the importance of preparedness in today's society. The conversation delves into the organization's history, its commitment to training, and its innovative approach to non-lethal defense options, aiming to equip members with every tool for personal safety.
A special thank you to Otis Technology for providing an amazing space to make podcast magic at SHOT Show 2025.
Links
- USCCA Website: https://www.uscca.com/
USCCA Training: https://www.uscca.com/training
Key Takeaways
- Preparedness is paramount: Individuals should proactively seek training and resources for self-defense.
- USCCA offers comprehensive support: Beyond firearms, they provide extensive training and crucial liability insurance.
Non-lethal options are valuable: Expanding self-defense to include tools for various situations is important.
Empowerment through training: Learning self-defense builds confidence and competence, especially for vulnerable groups.
- Due diligence is essential: Always research and understand the services and policies of any organization, especially regarding insurance and training.
Key words used during this podcast: SHOT Show, podcast, Otis Technology, USCCA (United States Concealed Carry Association), Second Amendment, self-defense, training, concealed carry, instructor, law enforcement, FBI, non-lethal, pepper spray, taser, Berna, Sabre, ASP, firearms, insurance, liability, defense, members.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:05):
Welcome to Amateurs and Experts Podcast.
We are at SHOT Show 2025.
Excited to be here.
Otis uh technology booth isamazing that they um donate to
us every year.
So we could sit here and uh talkto some cool people.
I'm here with Jessica Atnich.
SPEAKER_03 (00:24):
Yes, and we're also excited to be at Otis because it
is their 40th anniversary thisyear, so we're happy to
celebrate that with them.
SPEAKER_02 (00:32):
And we have Steve and Rob from USCCA.
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
Thank you for the opportunity, guys.
Great setup, by the way.
This is pretty impressive righthere in the middle of the SHAT
show and people walking aroundand it's very professional
setup, so appreciate theopportunity.
SPEAKER_03 (00:53):
It's quite the dynamic because then you met us.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
I know, and I feel like I'm half brain dead
already, and it's only day two.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
It's the SHOT Show effect.
SPEAKER_02 (01:02):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
Lots of walking, lots of talk, and completely
showing it.
So everybody understands we'rein like a plexiglass enclosure
with all these people walkingby, and I feel like the
fishbowl.
Yeah, a zoo animal, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
Like we're mere cats.
SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:17):
Like last year, people people walked by in with
they were acting like they werelicking the windows.
Oh jeez.
SPEAKER_03 (01:23):
Oh really?
Our first year in this booth waslast year, and you know, of
course, you go to shot for overa decade, you have a lot of
friends, and the amount ofridiculousness that happens at
the windows, so I think that'sprobably a good reason why we
have guests faced this way.
Really good.
So you aren't a littledistracted.
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
You guys are the pros.
You can don't know about that.
I'm not gonna lie though, Rob,it's a little uncomfortable
because typically what we teachwhen we're teaching um how to be
your own personal defender isthat when you enter into a
public space, you are enteringand seating yourself in a place
where you can see everythingthat's going on.
SPEAKER_02 (01:56):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
I have confidence in these two.
Yeah, yeah.
I do.
That's pretty good.
Yeah, I'm I'm he's on the back.
Yeah.
I'm a little nervous.
SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
I would too.
I mean, honestly, I do the samething.
Like, you got me, you got me.
And if I don't trust thatperson, they don't got me.
unknown (02:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
So all the movement behind me is like making me want
to turn around.
That's a that's just your ADD,man.
Just so all you guys know,before I was turning around
looking at people, and Robpointed at the uh microphone and
he's like, listen.
You can take it with you though.
I can't.
SPEAKER_02 (02:27):
If you want to carry it.
You can travel.
If you want to turn around,actually spin the chair around
and just be paying.
SPEAKER_00 (02:32):
Do not encourage him to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (02:36):
Anyway, these guys are gracious to come here.
Um most of most of our boardactually went to the media
breakfast this morning that youhad.
Um unfortunately we couldn'tmake it because we were up here.
But um We heard it was great.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (02:51):
No, it was uh it was an early morning, especially
after the first big day at SHATShow, so appreciate you guys
coming out.
And USCCA, which is the UnitedStates Concealed Carry
Association, is a big sponsor ofSHAT Show and has been for
years.
Yes.
It's just such a great uhenvironment and you know to be
with like-minded individuals andcompanies, and uh it's so
important you know, now morethan ever, obviously, in the
United States to support theSecond Amendment.
(03:13):
And so yeah, we're very, veryproud to be here and support
this event as well.
SPEAKER_02 (03:18):
Rob, USCCA has been around for a long time.
And actually me and my husbandwere we're members, and um we've
been we're we've been longtimemembers also.
Um and last year when we came,it was the first time that I uh
that I actually knew that youhad all this training and great
stuff on just on my phone.
(03:40):
So I was at the booth and theywere telling me about it and
stuff like that and showed mehow I could access all the
training that you guys do.
Um and I know I was excited tosee Steve here because I've seen
his face on a bunch of um, youknow, training um Facebook, all
that stuff in my area.
SPEAKER_00 (03:59):
Well, Steve is the face of USCCA training.
He started it.
So, and and for for those ofyour listeners who don't, you
know, maybe not aren't familiarwith us, uh the USCCA started
about 22 years ago, and aboutwhat, 12, 13 years ago, the the
training department sort ofstarted under Steve Fisher and
has grown tremendously.
(04:20):
Um and and then about a year anda half ago, uh I I retired a
little bit uh ago from the FBI.
I had the opportunity to work umat Quantico, and and when I
retired, I was looking for youknow what am I gonna do?
SPEAKER_03 (04:32):
Because you can't just retire.
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
Right.
Well, I I just you know Ienjoyed what I was doing and I
had the tremendous opportunityto get some great training.
His wife kicked him out of that.
SPEAKER_03 (04:41):
Let's be real, well be real here, real talk.
SPEAKER_00 (04:44):
But uh, you know, you had this incredible gift of
training that you know thetaxpayers paid for, and and I
felt like I still had somethingto give and had the just an
incredible opportunity to meetthese guys at SHAT Show a couple
of years ago, and was veryimpressed by just first the
overall quality of people thatare in the company, and then the
mission of training our fellowcitizens.
And so I had the great fortuneof being selected to be the
(05:06):
director of training andeducation for the USCCA.
That's amazing.
It really is, and and now morethan ever, obviously, with
police response times doublingand just all the chaos that's
happening.
We want to, our mission is tohelp people out there understand
what they can do to becomeconfident and competent in their
own self-defense.
SPEAKER_02 (05:26):
And I was surprised because there's not a lot of
training programs in my area,and to see how you guys are kind
of infiltrating the area fortraining, you know, whether it's
self-defense, whether it'swomen's training and things like
that, I was just like, wow.
SPEAKER_01 (05:44):
We launched our instructor support materials, we
call it an instructor toolkit in2012, February of 2012.
And the second person thatbought that toolkit happened to
be part of the our competitivetraining organization, Who Shall
Go Unnamed.
(06:05):
And he had called me and hesaid, What are you trying to
accomplish here?
And I said, I'm trying to helpinstructors, we're trying to
help instructors to be the bestversions of themselves.
So he said, it's a great idea.
He said, but have you thoughtbefore you saw these two people
that you didn't know that maybeyou should have uh some training
that goes along with it?
And I'm like, ah, yes, goodidea.
So a year later, then welaunched our first instructor
(06:26):
certification class, and thatwas in November of 2013.
And September of 2015, we welaunched our first train to
trainer class.
And we scaled the program sincethen.
We've certified over 30,000instructors, men and women, all
over the nation.
We've had our course materialsrecognized in, is it 40?
(06:50):
47, 48.
Yeah.
Almost every state.
I mean, there are states outthere that aren't real friendly
to conceal carry, the idea ofconcealed carry.
Um, but we've successfullyturned ourselves into a national
training organization in ahandful of years.
And out of all of thoseinstructors that we've
certified, a very goodpercentage of them are women.
As a matter of fact, we've hadrelationships with the
(07:11):
well-armed women, with a girland a gun, um, with shoot like a
girl, just to name a few.
And they've all been wonderfulat supporting our mission, which
is to save lives, teach peoplehow to survive a violent
encounter, how to prevent itactually first, and then if you
can't avoid it, then how to beable to successfully survive it.
(07:32):
The idea of enlisting um womento be a part of our training
organization, um, I think it'scritical to the success of our
mission.
SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
Oh, no question.
I it's why I'm here.
So I'll tell you two quickstories why I'm continuing to do
what I do, and and so one ofthem was sort of foundational
for me.
Uh when I was growing up, veryclose to my grandparents, and um
my grandfather passed away whenI was a teenager, a young
teenager, and I saw mygrandmother, who had been a you
(08:07):
know very powerful, almost aforce of nature, she lost her
protector.
And and you know, thatgeneration was very, very much
that way.
And and I, you know, as a kid, Ididn't understand, I thought she
was just lonely.
But what I perceived later whenI went off to college uh was
that she was afraid.
And I saw the the quality oflife that was and the enjoyment
(08:29):
that was taken from her becauseshe was afraid.
She couldn't protect herself ordefend herself.
Now, my my uncles werepolicemen, I became a policeman,
and we we actually got her apistol, a revolver, uh, and and
we trained her on it, and wemade sure she could use it and
she was confident in it, and Isaw a little bit more of
enjoyment, a little bit moreconfidence.
(08:50):
And then fast forward, uh just afew years ago, when I was going
off to Quantico, uh, my youngestdaughter and my wife stayed back
in South Carolina so she couldfinish high school.
And when I was leaving, and andher older brother was the
captain of the wrestling team,and so while they were in high
school together, she felt likeshe had some top cover.
And so, well, he went off tocollege and she was home by
(09:12):
herself when COVID hit.
And so she had to finish herhigh school career by herself.
Mom worked out of the house, Iwas 500 miles away at Quantico,
and I saw this kid again, veryvivacious, you know, really
confident, and it I she was adifferent, different person.
And so we talked about it, shesaid, I'm really, I'm really
(09:33):
kind of nervous, Dad.
I feel so isolated, I kind ofscared.
So, you know, I didn't want to,you know, my background at
Quantico, very familiar withfirearms, but I didn't want to
force it on her.
So I said, Hey kid, would youlike to go learn how to shoot a
gun?
Would you feel more confident?
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (09:48):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
Right?
And so she was sort of a fan ofThe Walking Dead.
And so she said, I want RickGrimes' gun, right?
So we went and got her astainless steel, 357.
Now I put 38s in there for thetraining, right?
SPEAKER_04 (10:02):
Yeah, yeah, okay, quick call.
SPEAKER_00 (10:03):
But we went, we went to a friend's farm for a day and
spent a few hours on the range,and that kid went from never
shot a gun before to knockingthe X out of the circle.
SPEAKER_02 (10:13):
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
And the feeling of empowerment and just confidence
that, okay, yeah, we got her afast action safe, downstairs and
upstairs, we had a plan.
You do this decisively do, youare in control, different kid.
And so that was just such amicrocosm of why we do what we
do.
Not just for women, foreverybody.
(10:36):
Everyone wants to know that theycan take care of themselves,
right?
That's fundamental to enjoyingwhat it is to be an American.
SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
So I love that you guys have the training to back
it up, but also you have theinsurance side of it.
Yes.
So when um when uh several yearsago my husband said, okay, we
have this insurance now.
And um and he was the one thatwas per he promoted you guys
without you guys knowing it.
Well, thank you.
And with tell everybody like youreally need to be insured.
SPEAKER_04 (11:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:07):
You know, because I'm we're from California.
So everybody, I mean, is itbetter to be, you know, carried
by six or tried by twelve,right?
Oh yeah.
And um, you know, you don't wantto have to think about that or
you know, not have somebody inyour corner.
Yes.
And um, you know, like I wastelling telling you, Rob, we've
(11:30):
heard some some things that thathad happened over the year.
Oh, yeah.
And um, and so I just want to,you know, see what are you guys
doing about um the insuranceside of it and um you know to to
actually for your membership,you know.
For and like for me, I'mthinking, oh my gosh, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (11:51):
Well, and and you know, this there's a lot of
negativity out there,unfortunately, right now.
And it's it's discouraging uhbecause I truly believe it's
disingenuous.
But I want I want everyone to dotheir own, just do your own
research.
Don't don't listen to thepundits, don't just take
someone's word, don't take myword for it, do your own
research.
And and so when when to to soyour under sorry, your listeners
(12:15):
understand when you join theUSCCA, right, you become a
member, you're automaticallycovered by what I believe is the
best self-defense liabilityinsurance policy in the
business, right?
Unlimited criminal defense,unlimited civil defense, red
flag protections, we have anunrivaled network of attorneys
all over the country who havedefended thousands of our
(12:37):
members in criminal actionsbrought against them because of
a self-defense case, right?
So if you are involved in alegal, lawful act of
self-defense, then we willdefend you tooth and nail,
right?
And so unfortunately, we had youknow an incident several years
back that I believe firmly, andagain, do your research, the
(12:58):
court documents are there tolook at yourself, and I believe
a reasonable person wouldconclude that the right decision
was made.
And so it is illegal for someoneto obtain insurance and then
intentionally commit an act,right?
You can't go get car insuranceand intentionally crash it or
(13:20):
have it stolen.
Same thing with self-defenseliability insurance.
So, you know, you can't go outand buy this policy and then
intentionally go do something,right?
So that's it, a lot of hay hasbeen made about this, and I
totally understand, right?
There's money to be made, sothings are gonna happen, and um
but when I came out of the FBI,when I came, so I did 30 years
(13:43):
in law enforcement, I always hadwhether it was qualified
immunity or a big governmentorganization to back me up if I
was involved in a in a righteoususe of force.
The minute I drove south fromQuantico that day, I realized,
oh, oh boy, I'm really on myown.
And thank goodness I found theUSCCA.
Uh there are other companies outthere, and they're good.
(14:06):
You know, not everybody's gonnabe right for the USCCA, and
that's fine.
I would encourage every singlegun owner out there.
If you own a gun, you shouldhave some type of self-defense
liability insurance policy.
Absolutely.
Do your research, check them allout.
Of course, I believe we're thebest.
Uh, and I do, and I wouldn't behere if I didn't.
Uh but you know, don't take myword for it.
(14:28):
Do your research and don't justlisten to these, you know,
pundits on listen, these guysare great, they make their money
by getting clicks and outrage,outrage media is unfortunately
the flavor of the month, ormaybe forever.
Uh but I would encourage peopleto go online, dig a little
deeper, find those courtdocuments.
You can find them on ourwebsite, right?
(14:50):
There's a great link to acompletely independent
discussion, some other podcast.
They did such a great job ofdiving deep and really
examining, you can take anythingout of context.
And so you mentioned theinsurance product.
One of the lessons learned thatUSCCA had was, you know what,
our language in our policy ismisleading, or I won't say
(15:11):
misleading, it's confusing tothe layperson.
And so, you know, inself-reflection, and this is
actually version 15.0, right,we're constantly looking to
improve and evolve.
And so our team went back andsaid, how can we change this
language so people understandthat the whole reason you have
self-defense liability insuranceis if you're charged with a
(15:34):
crime related to self-defense.
Okay?
And so, like I said, there's alot of controversy out there,
and we are very actively.
So the USCCA is very much likemy old organization, the FBI,
right?
No comment.
We just we don't comment onthat, especially when there's an
active member, right?
There's there's still a casethat's going on that we don't
(15:57):
talk about because it's a memberin good standing.
And so I was initially proud,like, hey, you know what?
Yeah, stay out of the gutter,don't, don't respond to this
stuff.
It'll, it'll, it'll, becauseeveryone knows that this is, you
know, the way it is.
Nope.
That's a lot of hay was made,and unfortunately, in the
(16:19):
absence of information, theimagination will fill in the
blanks, or other people who havemoney to be made will fill in
the blanks for you, right?
And so, like I said, do your ownresearch, pull up those
diagonals.
Look at this, look at the lookat the links on our website.
We have literally thousands ofexamples right from the people
(16:39):
who were defended by the USCCA.
USCCA attorneys themselves talkabout it.
I'm actually getting ready to doan interview next week of really
interesting case.
I'm interviewing the uh victimor our member, I believe was
victimized by the by the justicesystem and the attorney, and
that whole story of what that'slike and how we respond, and and
(17:00):
and these guys were there forus.
So I really believe it's a trulygreat company, it is absolutely
devoted, utterly devoted to theSecond Amendment, and uh I'm I'm
proud to be part of it.
SPEAKER_02 (17:11):
I appreciate your candidness.
SPEAKER_03 (17:13):
I was just gonna say that I I appreciate the response
honest and that we can have thisconversation, right?
And because I think in today'sworld we've gotten so used to,
especially with technology andsocial media, unfortunately, we
see a post and we read aheadline and we take it for
fact.
Whereas I think just like inpolitics, no matter who you're
voting for, city up to, stategovernment, national government,
(17:36):
you should do your own research.
And so the fact that you'relike, hey, go to our website,
read, make your own decision,just like we interview other
firearms companies here andthey're like, yeah, we love our
brand of gun, but do your ownresearch.
Go out and try somebody else's,go shoot it, just like different
training courses, depending onif you're 17 versus 87, find
what works for you.
So to be able to say, go to ourwebsite, it's all right there,
(17:58):
we stand for what we're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (17:59):
Or even go to the court's website.
There are gonna be some skepticsout, hey, their website, I
doctored.
And I understand too, listen,there are people out there like
this guy's a former FBI agent,we can't trust him.
Listen, I and I listen, there'sa lot that needs to be cleaned
up with the FBI, 100%, right?
But I will tell you, you know, Igrew up, I was a Boy Scout, I
(18:20):
was a Boy Scout leader, I havemy family was military, like
bleed red, white, and blue, andI'm so proud to be part of this
company that I know does theright thing every time.
Uh we have our detractors.
What drives me nuts is there'sso much room in this space for
all, you know, we're all in thisbuilding together at SHACO.
(18:42):
Should be rowing in the samedirection.
Yes.
It's disappointing when somethings are taken out of context.
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Um yeah, basically, it's disappointing, but it's not
surprising at all.
Not surprising at all.
So, and I choose to look atthings I I try every day.
I wake up and I and I say myprayers to keep me positive.
We have approaching 900,000members right now.
And if you could speak to any ofthem, I'm sure they're gonna
tell you that the service thatwe provide them is
(19:08):
unprecedented.
The people that work at theUSCCA, I mean, we hire core
value fits.
We hire people that understandthe culture, the servant
mentality.
Our existence is to take care ofour members.
And we do our best within theguidelines and limits of the
(19:30):
law.
And you can go, like Rob said,onto our website and you can
read hundreds of testimonialsfrom members who have had to
unfortunately have theexperience that called for them
to utilize that benefit.
It speaks for itself.
And that 900,000 that we'reapproaching right now, it's that
number, I still remember when welaunched uh the insurance
(19:55):
benefit in, we did it on D-Day,June 6th of 2011.
And prior to that, themembership just was a
subscription to the magazine andthen an opportunity to be able
to buy discounted educationalproducts.
When we launched the insurancebenefit, and we said we weren't
(20:16):
going to honor one yearmembership expired from the
previous, people were upset withus.
And we went from like 50,000people down to around 10 to
15,000 people.
But since that day in 2011,we've grown steadily.
We we're the numbers arestaggering, and the only way
(20:37):
that that can happen is ifyou're doing things the right
things the right way.
So, and when you do get to thetop, there's always somebody
that's gonna try to knock youoff at the top.
Some do it with good moral andethical decisions, some go the
opposite way.
SPEAKER_02 (20:53):
So that leads me to this question
happen in 2025?
What what do you guys have goingon?
SPEAKER_01 (21:00):
From an education and training standpoint, all of
it.
SPEAKER_02 (21:02):
All of it.
SPEAKER_00 (21:03):
What do you exciting stuff?
I I am thrilled to be here.
So I my my journey to the USCCAstarted as an instructor.
When I was retiring fromQuantico, I wanted to continue
training civilians, and I gotsort of I was gonna go NRA
because that's how I grew up.
I mean, I was went to Boy Scoutcamp, and but I had a friend
from Quantico who was aninstructor for the USCCA, a
training counselor.
(21:23):
So I attended that, reallyimpressed, and a few years later
here I am, right?
That's awesome.
And that journey that becomingan instructor showed me, hey,
really impressive, but work todo.
And so I am committed to uhcompletely overhauling what it
means to be a USCCA instructor.
I think we're good, we can begreat, and so we are putting a
(21:44):
lot of work into uh the pre thefront end, training people how
to really teach.
Because right now you go throughCCHDF, which is our concealed
carry home defense fundamentals,excellent program, but there
needs to be more.
There needs to be, you know.
Adult learning theory, thereneeds to be classroom
management, that sort of stuffwe're going to bake into the
(22:05):
front end.
Really innovative technologycoming out with that, I'm
excited.
We're going to completelyoverhaul our training counselor
program.
And then probably most exciting,you know, especially here at
SHACHO, we just announced thismorning, we have partnered with
the four biggest players in thenon-legal space.
So we have ASP, Berna, Sabre,and Taser.
(22:30):
All right?
And so as a policeman, yeah, soI carried an ASP, a Taser, and a
Saber, can of pepper spray, andnow of course Berna came on the
scene after I left.
But those are the big fournames, right?
That's almost like Kleenex,Coke, Xerox.
Yes.
And we have partnered with themto be their training partner.
(22:51):
So Steve and I have been workingfor the last year and a half on
putting together a USCCAnon-lethal weapons instructor
program.
Wow.
And so you could come and loveto have you guys come through.
You get certified in all fourplatforms, all right?
And then you have the ability asan instructor to teach all of
(23:13):
them together, right, in fourdifferent modules or break them
out, right?
I'm just going to teach a pepperspray class, I'm just going to
teach a taser class, whateverthat is.
And of course, we want to takecare of our instructors out
there.
So ability to act as a almost adistributor for these companies,
make a little extra money there.
And it also provides our guncarriers with those options for
(23:36):
what to carry when you can'tcarry.
Non-permissive environments,situations that don't require
firearms.
So we want people to have everyoption and the absolute best
training.
And all of those companies senttheir trainers to our
headquarters.
We went through their masterinstructor schools and have
combined them all into onecertification.
And so you'll see later this,actually next month, we'll start
(23:58):
rolling out our instructorcertifications for that
credential.
And then those instructors willbe all over the country giving
these end-user classes on how touse a can of pepper spray, how
to use a taser, how to use anask be your own defender, right?
SPEAKER_03 (24:20):
Oh, just get a firearm.
Well, not everybody has thepractice, the training, or the
confidence.
Right.
Because it's much different, yousay all the time, to go to the
range and sit in a controlledenvironment and shoot is much
different than that unknownsituation that's going to happen
to you when your adrenaline'srunning and you're then gonna go
into kung fu mode.
(24:41):
So being able to maybe have someother options for you that you
can build your confidence, thatmuscle memory of responding to
an instant a situation, thenmove up to a firearm when you're
ready.
And also the what comes after.
We spoke to, I don't know who itwas yesterday, but when you pull
it, you have to be ready to pullthe trigger.
And are you ready for that?
And are you also ready to take alife?
(25:01):
So there's a lot of differentthings to think about, whereas
maybe pepper spray, spray, getaway.
You know, a lot of differentoptions there.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
Yeah, you think about like the burner launcher,
for example, right?
Which is a really innovative uhpiece of equipment that launches
a pretty high caliberprojectile, I think 60 caliber
projectile.
unknown (25:16):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (25:16):
And it, you know, pepper ball inside it.
Um and it's a standoff weapon.
But you know, the first time youuse that, you don't want that to
be for all the marbles, right?
So you better get proficient init, know how to load it, how to
shoot it, how to reload it.
SPEAKER_03 (25:31):
Yeah, it's not a nerf gun.
SPEAKER_00 (25:33):
And it's if you're using it, it's a serious
situation.
So all of those tools you wantto be very confident in, and the
first time you use it understress, you're not gonna be as
as effective as you are at therange.
SPEAKER_01 (25:46):
You need to be educated on how to, when to, and
then you need to practice.
So you need to develop theskills, and then as in any skill
development, it's depreciable.
Depreciable?
Did I say that word?
That's a good word.
Good, proud of you.
I had a tooth pulled not toolong ago, so when I'm talking
now, it sounds like I'mslurring.
This true story.
I I didn't drink last night.
(26:08):
That's not a true story.
SPEAKER_03 (26:11):
Even Las Vegas.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (26:13):
It's been great having you guys on our podcast.
And um, if somebody wants to geta hold of you guys or USCCA or
find your training programs, howcould they do that?
SPEAKER_00 (26:24):
Best place to start is USCCA.com slash training,
slash training.
Yeah, slash training.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Thank you guys so much for theopportunity to be on here and
what you do and the audience youserve, and and and again, have a
great SHA show.
SPEAKER_03 (26:37):
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you for what all that youguys do and for your service.
SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
Come and see us.
SPEAKER_03 (26:43):
Come on over and see us.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
Welcome to Amateurs and Experts Podcast.
We are at SHOT Show 2025.
Excited to be here.
Otis uh technology booth isamazing that they um donate to
us every year.
So we could sit here and uh talkto some cool people.
I'm here with Jessica Atnich.
SPEAKER_03 (00:24):
Yes, and we're also excited to be at Otis because it
is their 40th anniversary thisyear, so we're happy to
celebrate that with them.
SPEAKER_02 (00:32):
And we have Steve and Rob from USCCA.
SPEAKER_00 (00:42):
Thank you for the opportunity, guys.
Great setup, by the way.
This is pretty impressive righthere in the middle of the SHAT
show and people walking aroundand it's very professional
setup, so appreciate theopportunity.
SPEAKER_03 (00:53):
It's quite the dynamic because then you met us.
SPEAKER_00 (00:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
I know, and I feel like I'm half brain dead
already, and it's only day two.
SPEAKER_00 (01:00):
It's the SHOT Show effect.
SPEAKER_02 (01:02):
Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01 (01:03):
Lots of walking, lots of talk, and completely
showing it.
So everybody understands we'rein like a plexiglass enclosure
with all these people walkingby, and I feel like the
fishbowl.
Yeah, a zoo animal, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (01:15):
Like we're mere cats.
SPEAKER_01 (01:16):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (01:17):
Like last year, people people walked by in with
they were acting like they werelicking the windows.
Oh jeez.
SPEAKER_03 (01:23):
Oh really?
Our first year in this booth waslast year, and you know, of
course, you go to shot for overa decade, you have a lot of
friends, and the amount ofridiculousness that happens at
the windows, so I think that'sprobably a good reason why we
have guests faced this way.
Really good.
So you aren't a littledistracted.
SPEAKER_01 (01:39):
You guys are the pros.
You can don't know about that.
I'm not gonna lie though, Rob,it's a little uncomfortable
because typically what we teachwhen we're teaching um how to be
your own personal defender isthat when you enter into a
public space, you are enteringand seating yourself in a place
where you can see everythingthat's going on.
SPEAKER_02 (01:56):
Right.
SPEAKER_01 (01:56):
I have confidence in these two.
Yeah, yeah.
I do.
That's pretty good.
Yeah, I'm I'm he's on the back.
Yeah.
I'm a little nervous.
SPEAKER_02 (02:05):
I would too.
I mean, honestly, I do the samething.
Like, you got me, you got me.
And if I don't trust thatperson, they don't got me.
unknown (02:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (02:13):
So all the movement behind me is like making me want
to turn around.
That's a that's just your ADD,man.
Just so all you guys know,before I was turning around
looking at people, and Robpointed at the uh microphone and
he's like, listen.
You can take it with you though.
I can't.
SPEAKER_02 (02:27):
If you want to carry it.
You can travel.
If you want to turn around,actually spin the chair around
and just be paying.
SPEAKER_00 (02:32):
Do not encourage him to do that.
SPEAKER_02 (02:36):
Anyway, these guys are gracious to come here.
Um most of most of our boardactually went to the media
breakfast this morning that youhad.
Um unfortunately we couldn'tmake it because we were up here.
But um We heard it was great.
Yes.
SPEAKER_00 (02:51):
No, it was uh it was an early morning, especially
after the first big day at SHATShow, so appreciate you guys
coming out.
And USCCA, which is the UnitedStates Concealed Carry
Association, is a big sponsor ofSHAT Show and has been for
years.
Yes.
It's just such a great uhenvironment and you know to be
with like-minded individuals andcompanies, and uh it's so
important you know, now morethan ever, obviously, in the
United States to support theSecond Amendment.
(03:13):
And so yeah, we're very, veryproud to be here and support
this event as well.
SPEAKER_02 (03:18):
Rob, USCCA has been around for a long time.
And actually me and my husbandwere we're members, and um we've
been we're we've been longtimemembers also.
Um and last year when we came,it was the first time that I uh
that I actually knew that youhad all this training and great
stuff on just on my phone.
(03:40):
So I was at the booth and theywere telling me about it and
stuff like that and showed mehow I could access all the
training that you guys do.
Um and I know I was excited tosee Steve here because I've seen
his face on a bunch of um, youknow, training um Facebook, all
that stuff in my area.
SPEAKER_00 (03:59):
Well, Steve is the face of USCCA training.
He started it.
So, and and for for those ofyour listeners who don't, you
know, maybe not aren't familiarwith us, uh the USCCA started
about 22 years ago, and aboutwhat, 12, 13 years ago, the the
training department sort ofstarted under Steve Fisher and
has grown tremendously.
(04:20):
Um and and then about a year anda half ago, uh I I retired a
little bit uh ago from the FBI.
I had the opportunity to work umat Quantico, and and when I
retired, I was looking for youknow what am I gonna do?
SPEAKER_03 (04:32):
Because you can't just retire.
SPEAKER_00 (04:34):
Right.
Well, I I just you know Ienjoyed what I was doing and I
had the tremendous opportunityto get some great training.
His wife kicked him out of that.
SPEAKER_03 (04:41):
Let's be real, well be real here, real talk.
SPEAKER_00 (04:44):
But uh, you know, you had this incredible gift of
training that you know thetaxpayers paid for, and and I
felt like I still had somethingto give and had the just an
incredible opportunity to meetthese guys at SHAT Show a couple
of years ago, and was veryimpressed by just first the
overall quality of people thatare in the company, and then the
mission of training our fellowcitizens.
And so I had the great fortuneof being selected to be the
(05:06):
director of training andeducation for the USCCA.
That's amazing.
It really is, and and now morethan ever, obviously, with
police response times doublingand just all the chaos that's
happening.
We want to, our mission is tohelp people out there understand
what they can do to becomeconfident and competent in their
own self-defense.
SPEAKER_02 (05:26):
And I was surprised because there's not a lot of
training programs in my area,and to see how you guys are kind
of infiltrating the area fortraining, you know, whether it's
self-defense, whether it'swomen's training and things like
that, I was just like, wow.
SPEAKER_01 (05:44):
We launched our instructor support materials, we
call it an instructor toolkit in2012, February of 2012.
And the second person thatbought that toolkit happened to
be part of the our competitivetraining organization, Who Shall
Go Unnamed.
(06:05):
And he had called me and hesaid, What are you trying to
accomplish here?
And I said, I'm trying to helpinstructors, we're trying to
help instructors to be the bestversions of themselves.
So he said, it's a great idea.
He said, but have you thoughtbefore you saw these two people
that you didn't know that maybeyou should have uh some training
that goes along with it?
And I'm like, ah, yes, goodidea.
So a year later, then welaunched our first instructor
(06:26):
certification class, and thatwas in November of 2013.
And September of 2015, we welaunched our first train to
trainer class.
And we scaled the program sincethen.
We've certified over 30,000instructors, men and women, all
over the nation.
We've had our course materialsrecognized in, is it 40?
(06:50):
47, 48.
Yeah.
Almost every state.
I mean, there are states outthere that aren't real friendly
to conceal carry, the idea ofconcealed carry.
Um, but we've successfullyturned ourselves into a national
training organization in ahandful of years.
And out of all of thoseinstructors that we've
certified, a very goodpercentage of them are women.
As a matter of fact, we've hadrelationships with the
(07:11):
well-armed women, with a girland a gun, um, with shoot like a
girl, just to name a few.
And they've all been wonderfulat supporting our mission, which
is to save lives, teach peoplehow to survive a violent
encounter, how to prevent itactually first, and then if you
can't avoid it, then how to beable to successfully survive it.
(07:32):
The idea of enlisting um womento be a part of our training
organization, um, I think it'scritical to the success of our
mission.
SPEAKER_00 (07:44):
Oh, no question.
I it's why I'm here.
So I'll tell you two quickstories why I'm continuing to do
what I do, and and so one ofthem was sort of foundational
for me.
Uh when I was growing up, veryclose to my grandparents, and um
my grandfather passed away whenI was a teenager, a young
teenager, and I saw mygrandmother, who had been a you
(08:07):
know very powerful, almost aforce of nature, she lost her
protector.
And and you know, thatgeneration was very, very much
that way.
And and I, you know, as a kid, Ididn't understand, I thought she
was just lonely.
But what I perceived later whenI went off to college uh was
that she was afraid.
And I saw the the quality oflife that was and the enjoyment
(08:29):
that was taken from her becauseshe was afraid.
She couldn't protect herself ordefend herself.
Now, my my uncles werepolicemen, I became a policeman,
and we we actually got her apistol, a revolver, uh, and and
we trained her on it, and wemade sure she could use it and
she was confident in it, and Isaw a little bit more of
enjoyment, a little bit moreconfidence.
(08:50):
And then fast forward, uh just afew years ago, when I was going
off to Quantico, uh, my youngestdaughter and my wife stayed back
in South Carolina so she couldfinish high school.
And when I was leaving, and andher older brother was the
captain of the wrestling team,and so while they were in high
school together, she felt likeshe had some top cover.
And so, well, he went off tocollege and she was home by
(09:12):
herself when COVID hit.
And so she had to finish herhigh school career by herself.
Mom worked out of the house, Iwas 500 miles away at Quantico,
and I saw this kid again, veryvivacious, you know, really
confident, and it I she was adifferent, different person.
And so we talked about it, shesaid, I'm really, I'm really
(09:33):
kind of nervous, Dad.
I feel so isolated, I kind ofscared.
So, you know, I didn't want to,you know, my background at
Quantico, very familiar withfirearms, but I didn't want to
force it on her.
So I said, Hey kid, would youlike to go learn how to shoot a
gun?
Would you feel more confident?
Yes.
SPEAKER_04 (09:48):
Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00 (09:48):
Right?
And so she was sort of a fan ofThe Walking Dead.
And so she said, I want RickGrimes' gun, right?
So we went and got her astainless steel, 357.
Now I put 38s in there for thetraining, right?
SPEAKER_04 (10:02):
Yeah, yeah, okay, quick call.
SPEAKER_00 (10:03):
But we went, we went to a friend's farm for a day and
spent a few hours on the range,and that kid went from never
shot a gun before to knockingthe X out of the circle.
SPEAKER_02 (10:13):
That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
And the feeling of empowerment and just confidence
that, okay, yeah, we got her afast action safe, downstairs and
upstairs, we had a plan.
You do this decisively do, youare in control, different kid.
And so that was just such amicrocosm of why we do what we
do.
Not just for women, foreverybody.
(10:36):
Everyone wants to know that theycan take care of themselves,
right?
That's fundamental to enjoyingwhat it is to be an American.
SPEAKER_02 (10:43):
So I love that you guys have the training to back
it up, but also you have theinsurance side of it.
Yes.
So when um when uh several yearsago my husband said, okay, we
have this insurance now.
And um and he was the one thatwas per he promoted you guys
without you guys knowing it.
Well, thank you.
And with tell everybody like youreally need to be insured.
SPEAKER_04 (11:06):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (11:07):
You know, because I'm we're from California.
So everybody, I mean, is itbetter to be, you know, carried
by six or tried by twelve,right?
Oh yeah.
And um, you know, you don't wantto have to think about that or
you know, not have somebody inyour corner.
Yes.
And um, you know, like I wastelling telling you, Rob, we've
(11:30):
heard some some things that thathad happened over the year.
Oh, yeah.
And um, and so I just want to,you know, see what are you guys
doing about um the insuranceside of it and um you know to to
actually for your membership,you know.
For and like for me, I'mthinking, oh my gosh, you know.
SPEAKER_00 (11:51):
Well, and and you know, this there's a lot of
negativity out there,unfortunately, right now.
And it's it's discouraging uhbecause I truly believe it's
disingenuous.
But I want I want everyone to dotheir own, just do your own
research.
Don't don't listen to thepundits, don't just take
someone's word, don't take myword for it, do your own
research.
And and so when when to to soyour under sorry, your listeners
(12:15):
understand when you join theUSCCA, right, you become a
member, you're automaticallycovered by what I believe is the
best self-defense liabilityinsurance policy in the
business, right?
Unlimited criminal defense,unlimited civil defense, red
flag protections, we have anunrivaled network of attorneys
all over the country who havedefended thousands of our
(12:37):
members in criminal actionsbrought against them because of
a self-defense case, right?
So if you are involved in alegal, lawful act of
self-defense, then we willdefend you tooth and nail,
right?
And so unfortunately, we had youknow an incident several years
back that I believe firmly, andagain, do your research, the
(12:58):
court documents are there tolook at yourself, and I believe
a reasonable person wouldconclude that the right decision
was made.
And so it is illegal for someoneto obtain insurance and then
intentionally commit an act,right?
You can't go get car insuranceand intentionally crash it or
(13:20):
have it stolen.
Same thing with self-defenseliability insurance.
So, you know, you can't go outand buy this policy and then
intentionally go do something,right?
So that's it, a lot of hay hasbeen made about this, and I
totally understand, right?
There's money to be made, sothings are gonna happen, and um
but when I came out of the FBI,when I came, so I did 30 years
(13:43):
in law enforcement, I always hadwhether it was qualified
immunity or a big governmentorganization to back me up if I
was involved in a in a righteoususe of force.
The minute I drove south fromQuantico that day, I realized,
oh, oh boy, I'm really on myown.
And thank goodness I found theUSCCA.
Uh there are other companies outthere, and they're good.
(14:06):
You know, not everybody's gonnabe right for the USCCA, and
that's fine.
I would encourage every singlegun owner out there.
If you own a gun, you shouldhave some type of self-defense
liability insurance policy.
Absolutely.
Do your research, check them allout.
Of course, I believe we're thebest.
Uh, and I do, and I wouldn't behere if I didn't.
Uh but you know, don't take myword for it.
(14:28):
Do your research and don't justlisten to these, you know,
pundits on listen, these guysare great, they make their money
by getting clicks and outrage,outrage media is unfortunately
the flavor of the month, ormaybe forever.
Uh but I would encourage peopleto go online, dig a little
deeper, find those courtdocuments.
You can find them on ourwebsite, right?
(14:50):
There's a great link to acompletely independent
discussion, some other podcast.
They did such a great job ofdiving deep and really
examining, you can take anythingout of context.
And so you mentioned theinsurance product.
One of the lessons learned thatUSCCA had was, you know what,
our language in our policy ismisleading, or I won't say
(15:11):
misleading, it's confusing tothe layperson.
And so, you know, inself-reflection, and this is
actually version 15.0, right,we're constantly looking to
improve and evolve.
And so our team went back andsaid, how can we change this
language so people understandthat the whole reason you have
self-defense liability insuranceis if you're charged with a
(15:34):
crime related to self-defense.
Okay?
And so, like I said, there's alot of controversy out there,
and we are very actively.
So the USCCA is very much likemy old organization, the FBI,
right?
No comment.
We just we don't comment onthat, especially when there's an
active member, right?
There's there's still a casethat's going on that we don't
(15:57):
talk about because it's a memberin good standing.
And so I was initially proud,like, hey, you know what?
Yeah, stay out of the gutter,don't, don't respond to this
stuff.
It'll, it'll, it'll, becauseeveryone knows that this is, you
know, the way it is.
Nope.
That's a lot of hay was made,and unfortunately, in the
(16:19):
absence of information, theimagination will fill in the
blanks, or other people who havemoney to be made will fill in
the blanks for you, right?
And so, like I said, do your ownresearch, pull up those
diagonals.
Look at this, look at the lookat the links on our website.
We have literally thousands ofexamples right from the people
(16:39):
who were defended by the USCCA.
USCCA attorneys themselves talkabout it.
I'm actually getting ready to doan interview next week of really
interesting case.
I'm interviewing the uh victimor our member, I believe was
victimized by the by the justicesystem and the attorney, and
that whole story of what that'slike and how we respond, and and
(17:00):
and these guys were there forus.
So I really believe it's a trulygreat company, it is absolutely
devoted, utterly devoted to theSecond Amendment, and uh I'm I'm
proud to be part of it.
SPEAKER_02 (17:11):
I appreciate your candidness.
SPEAKER_03 (17:13):
I was just gonna say that I I appreciate the response
honest and that we can have thisconversation, right?
And because I think in today'sworld we've gotten so used to,
especially with technology andsocial media, unfortunately, we
see a post and we read aheadline and we take it for
fact.
Whereas I think just like inpolitics, no matter who you're
voting for, city up to, stategovernment, national government,
(17:36):
you should do your own research.
And so the fact that you'relike, hey, go to our website,
read, make your own decision,just like we interview other
firearms companies here andthey're like, yeah, we love our
brand of gun, but do your ownresearch.
Go out and try somebody else's,go shoot it, just like different
training courses, depending onif you're 17 versus 87, find
what works for you.
So to be able to say, go to ourwebsite, it's all right there,
(17:58):
we stand for what we're doing.
SPEAKER_00 (17:59):
Or even go to the court's website.
There are gonna be some skepticsout, hey, their website, I
doctored.
And I understand too, listen,there are people out there like
this guy's a former FBI agent,we can't trust him.
Listen, I and I listen, there'sa lot that needs to be cleaned
up with the FBI, 100%, right?
But I will tell you, you know, Igrew up, I was a Boy Scout, I
(18:20):
was a Boy Scout leader, I havemy family was military, like
bleed red, white, and blue, andI'm so proud to be part of this
company that I know does theright thing every time.
Uh we have our detractors.
What drives me nuts is there'sso much room in this space for
all, you know, we're all in thisbuilding together at SHACO.
(18:42):
Should be rowing in the samedirection.
Yes.
It's disappointing when somethings are taken out of context.
SPEAKER_01 (18:48):
Um yeah, basically, it's disappointing, but it's not
surprising at all.
Not surprising at all.
So, and I choose to look atthings I I try every day.
I wake up and I and I say myprayers to keep me positive.
We have approaching 900,000members right now.
And if you could speak to any ofthem, I'm sure they're gonna
tell you that the service thatwe provide them is
(19:08):
unprecedented.
The people that work at theUSCCA, I mean, we hire core
value fits.
We hire people that understandthe culture, the servant
mentality.
Our existence is to take care ofour members.
And we do our best within theguidelines and limits of the
(19:30):
law.
And you can go, like Rob said,onto our website and you can
read hundreds of testimonialsfrom members who have had to
unfortunately have theexperience that called for them
to utilize that benefit.
It speaks for itself.
And that 900,000 that we'reapproaching right now, it's that
number, I still remember when welaunched uh the insurance
(19:55):
benefit in, we did it on D-Day,June 6th of 2011.
And prior to that, themembership just was a
subscription to the magazine andthen an opportunity to be able
to buy discounted educationalproducts.
When we launched the insurancebenefit, and we said we weren't
(20:16):
going to honor one yearmembership expired from the
previous, people were upset withus.
And we went from like 50,000people down to around 10 to
15,000 people.
But since that day in 2011,we've grown steadily.
We we're the numbers arestaggering, and the only way
(20:37):
that that can happen is ifyou're doing things the right
things the right way.
So, and when you do get to thetop, there's always somebody
that's gonna try to knock youoff at the top.
Some do it with good moral andethical decisions, some go the
opposite way.
SPEAKER_02 (20:53):
So that leads me to this question
happen in 2025?
What what do you guys have goingon?
SPEAKER_01 (21:00):
From an education and training standpoint, all of
it.
SPEAKER_02 (21:02):
All of it.
SPEAKER_00 (21:03):
What do you exciting stuff?
I I am thrilled to be here.
So I my my journey to the USCCAstarted as an instructor.
When I was retiring fromQuantico, I wanted to continue
training civilians, and I gotsort of I was gonna go NRA
because that's how I grew up.
I mean, I was went to Boy Scoutcamp, and but I had a friend
from Quantico who was aninstructor for the USCCA, a
training counselor.
(21:23):
So I attended that, reallyimpressed, and a few years later
here I am, right?
That's awesome.
And that journey that becomingan instructor showed me, hey,
really impressive, but work todo.
And so I am committed to uhcompletely overhauling what it
means to be a USCCA instructor.
I think we're good, we can begreat, and so we are putting a
(21:44):
lot of work into uh the pre thefront end, training people how
to really teach.
Because right now you go throughCCHDF, which is our concealed
carry home defense fundamentals,excellent program, but there
needs to be more.
There needs to be, you know.
Adult learning theory, thereneeds to be classroom
management, that sort of stuffwe're going to bake into the
(22:05):
front end.
Really innovative technologycoming out with that, I'm
excited.
We're going to completelyoverhaul our training counselor
program.
And then probably most exciting,you know, especially here at
SHACHO, we just announced thismorning, we have partnered with
the four biggest players in thenon-legal space.
So we have ASP, Berna, Sabre,and Taser.
(22:30):
All right?
And so as a policeman, yeah, soI carried an ASP, a Taser, and a
Saber, can of pepper spray, andnow of course Berna came on the
scene after I left.
But those are the big fournames, right?
That's almost like Kleenex,Coke, Xerox.
Yes.
And we have partnered with themto be their training partner.
(22:51):
So Steve and I have been workingfor the last year and a half on
putting together a USCCAnon-lethal weapons instructor
program.
Wow.
And so you could come and loveto have you guys come through.
You get certified in all fourplatforms, all right?
And then you have the ability asan instructor to teach all of
(23:13):
them together, right, in fourdifferent modules or break them
out, right?
I'm just going to teach a pepperspray class, I'm just going to
teach a taser class, whateverthat is.
And of course, we want to takecare of our instructors out
there.
So ability to act as a almost adistributor for these companies,
make a little extra money there.
And it also provides our guncarriers with those options for
(23:36):
what to carry when you can'tcarry.
Non-permissive environments,situations that don't require
firearms.
So we want people to have everyoption and the absolute best
training.
And all of those companies senttheir trainers to our
headquarters.
We went through their masterinstructor schools and have
combined them all into onecertification.
And so you'll see later this,actually next month, we'll start
(23:58):
rolling out our instructorcertifications for that
credential.
And then those instructors willbe all over the country giving
these end-user classes on how touse a can of pepper spray, how
to use a taser, how to use anask be your own defender, right?
SPEAKER_03 (24:20):
Oh, just get a firearm.
Well, not everybody has thepractice, the training, or the
confidence.
Right.
Because it's much different, yousay all the time, to go to the
range and sit in a controlledenvironment and shoot is much
different than that unknownsituation that's going to happen
to you when your adrenaline'srunning and you're then gonna go
into kung fu mode.
(24:41):
So being able to maybe have someother options for you that you
can build your confidence, thatmuscle memory of responding to
an instant a situation, thenmove up to a firearm when you're
ready.
And also the what comes after.
We spoke to, I don't know who itwas yesterday, but when you pull
it, you have to be ready to pullthe trigger.
And are you ready for that?
And are you also ready to take alife?
(25:01):
So there's a lot of differentthings to think about, whereas
maybe pepper spray, spray, getaway.
You know, a lot of differentoptions there.
SPEAKER_00 (25:07):
Yeah, you think about like the burner launcher,
for example, right?
Which is a really innovative uhpiece of equipment that launches
a pretty high caliberprojectile, I think 60 caliber
projectile.
unknown (25:16):
Oh.
SPEAKER_00 (25:16):
And it, you know, pepper ball inside it.
Um and it's a standoff weapon.
But you know, the first time youuse that, you don't want that to
be for all the marbles, right?
So you better get proficient init, know how to load it, how to
shoot it, how to reload it.
SPEAKER_03 (25:31):
Yeah, it's not a nerf gun.
SPEAKER_00 (25:33):
And it's if you're using it, it's a serious
situation.
So all of those tools you wantto be very confident in, and the
first time you use it understress, you're not gonna be as
as effective as you are at therange.
SPEAKER_01 (25:46):
You need to be educated on how to, when to, and
then you need to practice.
So you need to develop theskills, and then as in any skill
development, it's depreciable.
Depreciable?
Did I say that word?
That's a good word.
Good, proud of you.
I had a tooth pulled not toolong ago, so when I'm talking
now, it sounds like I'mslurring.
This true story.
I I didn't drink last night.
(26:08):
That's not a true story.
SPEAKER_03 (26:11):
Even Las Vegas.
Right.
SPEAKER_02 (26:13):
It's been great having you guys on our podcast.
And um, if somebody wants to geta hold of you guys or USCCA or
find your training programs, howcould they do that?
SPEAKER_00 (26:24):
Best place to start is USCCA.com slash training,
slash training.
Yeah, slash training.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Thank you guys so much for theopportunity to be on here and
what you do and the audience youserve, and and and again, have a
great SHA show.
SPEAKER_03 (26:37):
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you for what all that youguys do and for your service.
SPEAKER_00 (26:40):
Come and see us.
SPEAKER_03 (26:43):
Come on over and see us.
Thanks so much.
Thank you.
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